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#debian IRC Logs for 2013-10-23

---Logopened Wed Oct 23 00:00:05 2013
---Daychanged Wed Oct 23 2013
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00:08<E431-noob>i installed debian to a 64GB drive with separate / and /home. it gave / 9.??GB of space and /home 45.??GB. is 9GB normal for any install on any drive? or is it a percentage of the drive size?
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00:10<nadir1>It sure ain't 9 Gigs all the time. If it is percentage i don't know, but would assume
00:11<E431-noob>so i would have a bigger / if i had a bigger drive?
00:11<nadir1>I would say yes. I always partition manually
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00:11<Jonesboro>Manual partitions the way to go.
00:11<nadir1>Or just put it all in one partition, in case i am lazy
00:12<E431-noob>i used to partition manually
00:13<nadir1>I'd say that 9 Gigs should be a good size. With 64 Gigs only it might be slightly too big (if you miss space in /home)
00:13<nadir1>That is a question of taste and what exactly one does, of course. But as a general rule of thumb it sounds ok.
00:13<E431-noob>this one is a usb 3.0 flashdrive. guided with luks, separate / and /home, uses lilo.
00:14<E431-noob>i do not need more than about 2 GB in /home
00:14<E431-noob>it didn't ask me how i wanted to allocate the space
00:14<SamB>E431-noob: why do you imagine you don't need more than 2 GB in /home ?
00:14<E431-noob>erm... guided whole disk
00:15<nadir1>E431-noob: is the purpose only to be a portable OS? Cause i couldn't think of a root partition being 50 Gigs or such (but that is me)
00:15<nadir1>The guided sizing is suboptional, in my opinion.
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00:16<nadir1>well: often, not in general
00:16<Jonesboro>E431-noob: You say you used to manually partition. Why did you stop?
00:16<E431-noob>not much data plus i'll be mounting an external drive on say /home/<user>/Documents
00:17<E431-noob>i've never manually partitioned linux before...win32 yes, bsd, yes, system 5 yes, not linux though
00:17<sababa>what is my best bet to get up-to-date Wine in Debian?
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00:18<SamB>sababa: why do you care?
00:18<E431-noob>hence the noob in my name :/
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00:18<sababa>SamB: because I have windows apps and it is not like wine has stagnated for 3 major versions?
00:18<nadir1>E431-noob: Do it a few times only. It really ain't that hard. If lvm is involved: i won't be able to tell anything. But else ... easy.
00:19<SamB>sababa: I mean do you suspect that it fixes some problem you've been having?
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00:19<nadir1>You pick "manually" You choose the partitions and click/tab your way.
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00:19<nadir1>Or just create the partitions while installing. Some first do it from a liveCD, with gparted, but it's easy from the installer too
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00:20<sababa>SamB: yes, as reported by friendly folks on winehq.
00:21<E431-noob>this had whole disk, luks, lvm, separate / and /home, lilo, generic initrd, yes basically a portable os because i could not install on the e431 because it thermal crashes (installer doesn't run the fans) before halfway thru the install. i had to do it this way
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00:23<SamB>this problem is probably going to stay with you
00:23<E431-noob>and the fans still dont work. i installed fancontrol and thinkfan. ran pwmconfig (for fancontrol) which found a supported chipset and setup but tho i ran as root it complained it could not write the config file
00:24<E431-noob>the fan finally started working but at low speed
00:25<E431-noob>i'm good for about an hour or so before total burnup
00:26<SamB>did the directory the file was supposed to go in exist?
00:26<sababa>I am fine with compiling my wine from source, even though as the last resort. I wonder if there is anything better available
00:26<E431-noob>oh yeah, tried with grub. wasn't bootable on e431 cuz grub added something to the bios to make it work. that something wasnt on the e431 so the e431 didnt see as bootable. had to use lilo
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00:28<E431-noob>i tried the sensible stuff first. a week of failures trying everything else before this setup worked
00:28<E431-noob>anyone good with fancontrol?
00:31<E431-noob>anyone good with lvm? i understand the LVs can be resized.
00:32<E431-noob>73% of / is in use. my debian could use a bit more breathing room
00:33<E431-noob>less than 1GB in use in /home
00:33<nadir1>On a fresh installation?
00:33<nadir1>apt-get clean. Check again
00:33<nadir1>73% of 9 Gigs sounds like a lot. Is it amd64?
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00:34<E431-noob>i was going to get to that.......soon as i finished installing packages... ;P
00:34<nadir1>The big environments like kde and gnome should be around 3.5 Gigabytes. And that includes all you ever heard of
00:34<E431-noob>yes amd64
00:34<E431-noob>it's kde
00:34<nadir1>In my experience it uses quite some space compared to 32, but my experience is rather limited.
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00:35<nadir1>But in short you are right. You need someone to help you give more space to / (someone who knows lvm. I don't)
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00:35<E431-noob>lots of libreoffice, kdepim, other stuff
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00:36<E431-noob>yes that would be awesome
00:36<niko_20010>E431-noob: man fsadm
00:36*E431-noob writes that down ...
00:36<niko_20010>that will resize the LV and afterwards the FS inside
00:37<E431-noob>both? automatically?
00:37<niko_20010>just look into the manpage
00:37<E431-noob>will do!
00:37<niko_20010>and yes, both
00:37<niko_20010>it is a great, handy tool
00:38*E431-noob dancing
00:39<E431-noob>niko_20010, know anything about fancontrol, thinkfan, or any other package that can help cool my thinkpad?
00:39<niko_20010>what thinkpad?
00:39<E431-noob>edge series E431
00:39<niko_20010>my T42 does it all in hardware
00:40<E431-noob>how? i didn't find a setting in setup?
00:40<niko_20010>i do not know anything about the ones from lenovo
00:40<E431-noob>mine's lenovo
00:40<niko_20010>mine is still from IBM
00:40<niko_20010>it is very old
00:40<E431-noob>yeah i was about to say ...
00:41<niko_20010>it is my chat- and devbox
00:41<E431-noob>back in that day we had all the options
00:41<niko_20010>the BIOS has thousands of options
00:42*E431-noob sighs
00:42<E431-noob>i wish we still did
00:42<niko_20010>E431-noob: do not run lm_sensors or fancontrol on a thinkpad
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00:43<E431-noob>ok ... what do i do?
00:43<niko_20010>lm_sensors can ruin the BIOS password EEPROM
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00:43<E431-noob>thats a new system board on this design
00:43<niko_20010>and that means you must return it to let them reprogram that chip
00:43<E431-noob>i don't need that
00:44<niko_20010>because it doesnt let you boot if it is ruined
00:44<E431-noob>is lshw safe?
00:45<niko_20010>and keep your fingers away from the SMBus
00:45<E431-noob>the what?
00:45<niko_20010>that eeprom is attached to that bus
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00:46<niko_20010>it stands for SystemManagementBus or something
00:46<niko_20010>like that
00:46<E431-noob>where is that bus?
00:47<niko_20010>it is on the mobo and typically has no connectors on it
00:47<niko_20010>it is "for internal use only"
00:47<E431-noob>oh, then i prolly missed it during the first hardware surgery
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00:48<E431-noob>next one is just a ram upgrade
00:48<E431-noob>to 16GB (might as well get it right the first time, actually costs less that way)
00:48<niko_20010>some old ASUS board from 2002~2005 have a connector on it, but that conn was rarely used, so they dropped it
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00:49<E431-noob>ok got it. so what do i do? how do i keep her cool?
00:49<niko_20010>look into the thinkwiki
00:50<E431-noob>i did that. my model doesn't exist there yet
00:50<E431-noob>it's too new i think
00:50<niko_20010>THE source of info around thinkpads internals
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00:50<niko_20010>just do not use whacky new hardware with linux
00:52<E431-noob>whacky? a lenovo thinkpad edge series e431? i was under the impression i was going with the preferred choice of debian supporters?
00:52<E431-noob>my next one will prolly be an x1 carbon touch
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00:53<E431-noob>unless i learn something new that says i shouldnt
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00:54<niko_20010>it is too new for linux
00:54-!-grepper [] has joined #debian
00:55<E431-noob>well i didn't wanna get used ...
00:55<niko_20010>i meant REALLY new with that sentence
00:55<E431-noob>o i c, they *just* replaced the e430 with this e431
00:56<niko_20010>driver development without H/W documentation can take ages....
00:56<E431-noob>ok so does this mean i can help others who get an e431 make it work? (obviously after mine is working)
00:57<niko_20010>and the thinkpads are "black boxes"
00:58<E431-noob>great. and all this time i thought the point was getting something easily supported. "they typically use intel" or something like that
00:58<niko_20010>just get a T-series Thinkpad (well supported)
00:58*E431-noob groans
00:58<E431-noob>there wasn't a t-series i liked
00:59<E431-noob>i was told any thinkpad, but it had to be a thinkpad not an ideapad
00:59<E431-noob>*NOW* you tell me
00:59<niko_20010>the T-Series is the business series
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01:00<niko_20010>very stable under linux....
01:00<E431-noob>i was told the win7 machines were business series. this one was win7
01:01<niko_20010>anything not T-series is for home users
01:01<E431-noob>it has a *LOT* more bios options than the win8 machines i looked at in the brick and mortar store
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01:01<E431-noob>and i looked at a lot of them
01:01<niko_20010>my next one will be a T520
01:02<niko_20010>or T510
01:02<E431-noob>i run 2 laptops... my next one is as soon as i get this one running well
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01:04<Shadowpillar>is it me or is mod_proxy removed from apache2 in debian 7?
01:05<jm_>Shadowpillar: it's you
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01:05<Shadowpillar>oh it's installed by default
01:05<Shadowpillar>that was silly
01:05<E431-noob>niko_20010, so again, what do i do to keep this e431 cool? too new for thinkwiki.
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01:07<niko_20010>i have no clue about the E series
01:08<E431-noob>can anyone else here help?
01:08<niko_20010>but i will try to analyze
01:08<E431-noob>what do i do?
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01:09<niko_20010>from what machine are you chatting now?
01:10<E431-noob>a macbookpro on knoppix dvd. the e431 sits powered down next to it
01:10<niko_20010>because it can help to shut down X temporarily to reduce load on the chips
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01:11<E431-noob>i can switch to a text console. what was the hotkey? alt-ctrl-F2?
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01:11<E431-noob>i know it was the keys left of the spacebar
01:11<niko_20010>go to TTY1 by pressing CTRL-ALT-F1
01:12<E431-noob>k hang a sec. booting up ...
01:12<niko_20010>TTY2 is CTRL-ALT-F2
01:12<niko_20010>and so on until TTY12
01:12<niko_20010>X is usually on TTY7 or 8
01:13<niko_20010>if booted up, login on TTY1
01:14<niko_20010>stop GDM, KDM, lightdm or what else you are using as login manager
01:14<niko_20010>then go to /sys/class/hwmon
01:14<E431-noob>killall kdm ?
01:15<niko_20010>/etc/init.d/kdm stop i believe
01:15<niko_20010>tell me what is in /sys/class/hwmon
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01:17<E431-noob>kdm stopped
01:17<E431-noob>cd sys/class/hwmon ?
01:18<E431-noob>now what?
01:19<E431-noob>root@debian:/sys/class/hwmon# _
01:19<niko_20010>ls -lh
01:19<E431-noob>3 symlinks
01:19<E431-noob>hwmon0, hwmon1, hwmon2
01:19<niko_20010>pointing where?
01:21<niko_20010>go to hwmon1
01:22<niko_20010>then look for pwm files
01:22<E431-noob>root@debian:/sys/class/hwmon/hwmon1# _
01:22<niko_20010>ls -lh pwm*
01:22<E431-noob>no such. 2 links and a dir
01:23<niko_20010>cd device
01:23<E431-noob>fatfinger fest
01:23<niko_20010>then ls -lh pwm*
01:23<E431-noob>root@debian:/sys/class/hwmon/hwmon1/device# _
01:24<E431-noob>pwm1 and pwm1_enable
01:24<niko_20010>cat pwm1_enable
01:24<E431-noob>root@debian:/sys/class/hwmon/hwmon1/device# _
01:25<niko_20010>echo 2 >pwm1_enable
01:25<niko_20010>and check the fan speed
01:25<E431-noob>bash: echo: write error: operation not permitted
01:25<niko_20010>and temperatures
01:26<E431-noob>root@debian:/sys/class/hwmon/hwmon1/device# _
01:26<E431-noob>what i said
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01:26<E431-noob>this is root too
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01:27<niko_20010>echo 0 >pwm1_enable
01:27<niko_20010>check if the fan is spinning
01:27<E431-noob>bash: echo: write error: operation not permitted
01:27<E431-noob>root@debian:/sys/class/hwmon/hwmon1/device# _
01:27<E431-noob>not spinning
01:28<E431-noob>very not good. we do not have much time
01:28<niko_20010>shut it down quickly to prevent overheating
01:28<niko_20010>i have absolutely no clue
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01:29<E431-noob>switching to runlevel 0 shutting down
01:29<kardan>there are multiple postgres version installed on this server - how to define which one is started? uninstalling the 8.2 does not help that much..
01:29<E431-noob>she's off
01:30<E431-noob>can anyone here help?
01:30<TheKMan>What's the situation? Some kind of fan failure? I just caught the last of it.
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01:31<jm_>kardan: use update-rc.d to create symlinks appropriately
01:32<E431-noob>fans never run during debian install so install was done on a tower. e431 now boots but fans dont run. tried fancontrol but pwmconfig could not write the config file
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01:32<E431-noob>seems now we know that from ctrl-alt-f2
01:32<jm_>did you try using a newer kernel with it?
01:32<E431-noob>logged in as user, sudo -s to root
01:33<E431-noob>latest wheezy
01:33<TheKMan>Are permissions set right on the config file?
01:33<jm_>define latest
01:33<E431-noob>i dunno
01:33<jm_>no, I mean kernel version
01:33<E431-noob>3.2.0-4 amd64
01:33<jm_>right, there's 3.11 available
01:33<jm_>judd kernels
01:33<judd>Available kernel versions are: experimental: 3.11-trunk-686-pae (3.11-1~exp1); sid: 3.11-1-686-pae (3.11.5-1); jessie: 3.10-3-686-pae (3.10.11-1); wheezy-backports: 3.10-0.bpo.3-686-pae (3.10.11-1~bpo70+1); wheezy: 3.2.0-4-686-pae (3.2.51-1); squeeze-backports: 3.2.0-0.bpo.4-686-pae (3.2.46-1+deb7u1~bpo60+1); squeeze: 2.6.32-5-686 (2.6.32-48squeeze4)
01:33<jm_>sorry 3.10
01:34<E431-noob>is this a wheezy kernel or the experimental newer one?
01:34<jm_>it's backported kernel from testing
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01:34<E431-noob>what is backport?
01:34<dpkg>A backport is a package from a newer Debian branch, compiled from source for an older branch to avoid dependency and <ABI> complications. (2.7.4 and 2.7.10), . Ask me about <debian-backports> and <backport caveat>. See also <simple sid backport>.
01:36<E431-noob>ouch. i read the caveat. this needs pure unadulterated stable
01:36<E431-noob>no experimental stuff
01:36<E431-noob>can we work with this 3.2.0-4 amd64 kernel?
01:37<jm_>this has got nothing to do with experimental, 3.10 is a stable kernel
01:37<jm_>but whatever you want ...
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01:37*kardan did 'update-rc.d -f postgresql-8.2 remove' but for some reason still 8.2 and 9.1 are both started without errors. wonder why the second one does not complain that the port is used etc.
01:37<E431-noob>i may consider but only if all else fails
01:39<jm_>started how and when?
01:40<E431-noob>interestingly the fan runs about 1.5 seconds after first pressing the power button to turn on. then quits
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01:40<kardan>service postgresql restart
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01:41<jm_>well that's normal - update-rc.d only removed scripts to start it at boot, manually starting it using the init script will still work
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01:42<kardan>is there a way to disable 8.2?
01:42<jm_>check the script itself, I don't have it available here to do it myself
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01:42<kardan>mh, maybe pg_dropcluster
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01:44<E431-noob> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 23296 Oct 2 01:03 /usr/sbin/pwmconfig
01:45<E431-noob>it's writable by root which i am
01:45<E431-noob>line 199: echo: write error: Operation not permitted
01:46<E431-noob>shutting her down, she's too hot
01:46<kardan>'pg_dropcluster 9.1 main --stop;pg_upgradecluster 8.2 main;pg_dropcluster 8.2 main' did it. thanks jm_ for answering!
01:46<E431-noob>there's a 3rd gen core i5 under the hood
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01:47<jm_>kardan: I didn't really help, but no worries
01:47<jm_>so you're saying fan doesn't come on even if you leave it in BIOS?
01:48<E431-noob>interestingly the fan runs about 1.5 seconds after first pressing the power button to turn on. then quits
01:48<jm_>I don't see how that's a debian issue then
01:49<E431-noob>oh the hardware works. it was running very slow a couple boots ago tho i haven't managed to fix it yet. it never ran during install. now that install is done i just need it to work
01:50<E431-noob>i dont mind if it runs all the time as long as i can turn it on
01:51<E431-noob>i think bios is turning it on when she gets hot. however it never did that during setup and setup has no setting for it
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01:52<E431-noob>God has had a bit of mercy but it's time to fix it
01:53<E431-noob>i didn't think to check if it had a flag set like schg or uchg root
01:54<E431-noob>those are evil flags to foist on a noob
01:54<E431-noob>when she cools down enough i'll check
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01:58<E431-noob>i can't think of any other reason it wouldn't be writable
01:58<E431-noob>permission in a parent dir maybe?
01:58<E431-noob>sorry kepka , not directed at you
01:59<kepka>oh, okay :(
02:00<kepka>i easy want talk
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02:00<jm_>E431-noob: it's not writable because the driver handling it doesn't support it
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02:01<E431-noob>is there a kernel extension or something for it? (so i won't need a *WHOLE* new kernel)?
02:01<E431-noob>a lkm or something?
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02:02<jm_>why are you so scared of a new kernel? it won't kill you
02:03<E431-noob>if it was in stable branch i'd do it
02:03<jm_>it *is* in stable branch
02:04<E431-noob>i did a apt-get dist update and apt-get dist upgrade
02:04<E431-noob>or something like that
02:07<E431-noob>this is going to be an offline computer. no internet. it has a few jobs to do. it will not be updated much. **low** maintenance. i extremely do not want to have to fix something even every now and then. once it's up, it needs to just stay up
02:08<E431-noob>that's why
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02:11<kepka>i'll remember you
02:12<kepka>russian please
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02:12<kepka>i'll remember you
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02:12<E431-noob>da .... non
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02:16<E431-noob>so no lkm?
02:17<E431-noob>(loadable kernel module)
02:19<E431-noob>i'll do a hw fix if i have to. i'll take the bottom cover off and point a fan at it (with a grounded static bleed of course). i'm *that* guy
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02:21<E431-noob>i didn't get a laptop for portability. it's low power, compact, and has a built-in ups
02:22<E431-noob>stable uptime is the goal
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02:25<jm_>laptops are not really designed to be powered on all the time
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02:26<E431-noob>it wont be. it *must* boot reliably tho
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02:27<E431-noob>can't be having issues with it. maybe in a few years ... but i cant be needing to fix something all the time
02:28<E431-noob>i need it to just boot when i turn it on and do what i need it to then shutdown. repeat ad infinitum until hardware gets too old
02:28<E431-noob>good backup, replace drives as needed
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02:28<E431-noob>you know the drill
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02:28<E431-noob>it's an it thing
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02:31<E431-noob>i guess i should tell you... i had a bad experience with linux back in '98. it was setup for me at an installfest. *everything* worked and i had it all. serious system. got it home. 4 boots later it wouldn't boot and had to be formatted to be fixed. the guru that set it up was gone and hard to find.
02:32<E431-noob>i was told later that x11 was a nightmare in those days
02:32<E431-noob>i ***NEED*** stable!
02:33<jm_>like I said, 3.10 is a stable kernel
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02:33<dcraig>wow that sounds like a really traumatic childhood experience
02:34<E431-noob>not childhood, i'm *not* telling my age
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02:34<E431-noob>that was after i left the military
02:35<dcraig>you can estimate age based on asterisks used per hour
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02:35<dcraig>start at 100 and subtract a decade per asterisk
02:35<E431-noob>huh? ... lol
02:35<dcraig>yeah, except it's working out that youre 0 year old
02:35<dcraig>maybe consecutive asterisks count differently
02:35<E431-noob>i almost wish lol
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02:38<E431-noob>i'm still worried. how long till the current sid goes stable?
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02:38<themill>sid never becomes stable -- but jessie will become stable in 18ish months
02:39<E431-noob>ouch. long time. is there some absolute certainty that 3.10 will support this hw?
02:39<dcraig>not that I don't love debian, but if you want something that works great on your newfangled laptop, have you considered win 7? :p
02:39<E431-noob>i can do a test install on a spare drive i suppose
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02:40<jm_>no, but installing a newr kernel is not an issue - old kernel will still be left and you can select which to use at boot
02:40<E431-noob>the passion with which i hate windows is not expressable with the english language nor is it conducive to my needs
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02:41<E431-noob>can lilo do that?
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02:42<jm_>probably, I haven't used that since grub 0.4 days
02:42<E431-noob>i tried grub
02:43<E431-noob>for the past week
02:43<E431-noob>over and over again
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02:43<jm_>yeah looking at lilo.conf one can configure it to show several kernels in the menu
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02:44<E431-noob>grub keeps putting some part of itself in the firmware of the install system (tower) and when i transfer drive to e431 to boot it, the drive is not seen as bootable. lilo fixed this behavior
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02:45<E431-noob>my workaround for thermal hard crash in middle of install on e431
02:45<E431-noob>due to the fans
02:45<jm_>you just need to reinstall grub on the laptop ...
02:46<E431-noob>i've never been able to make that work so i will need help with that. but since lilo is doing the job and can do what you sugested, can we stick with lilo?
02:46<jm_>back in the old days one could install it without using stage1.5, bntuwhich usually avoids these types of problems but nowadays I am not sure that's doable
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02:47<jm_>sure, just use lilo
02:49<E431-noob>ok so the next neat trick (since the tower could install and boot grub (which failed on e431), and can install but not boot lilo) is how to get this kernel and set it up before meltdown event
02:49<jm_>what;s this tower thing?
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02:50<E431-noob>8-core i7 16GB ram supercooled beast machine of mine
02:50<jm_>so you put laptop's disk in it or what?
02:50<E431-noob>*not* a pc
02:50<dcraig>how's it supercooled?
02:50<E431-noob>yeah for the install
02:50<jm_>so do the same and install the kernel on it in a chroot
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02:51<E431-noob>the wholesale entire front panel and rear panel are not panels. they are screens with cooling zones and dedicated fans
02:52<dcraig>I thought newer intel processors didn't really put out that much heat
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02:53<jm_>core i7 can be 125W beast
02:53<E431-noob>i've only chroot'ed once in my life and that was a looooooooooong time ago. not sure i can do that from the installer. tower boots the debian rescue disk tho. that has lilo on it
02:53<dcraig>but you don't need like 10 fans in your case for that...
02:53<E431-noob>1/3 of this tower is heat sink
02:53<dpkg>To reinstall <GRUB> boot to your Debian install disk/live CD, switch to the other console (Alt-F2), then mount your root filesystem (mount -t ext2 /dev/whatever /target ; mount --bind /dev /target/dev ; mount -t proc none /target/proc ; mount -t sysfs none /target/sys), then chroot into it (chroot /target) and run "update-grub && grub-install /dev/whatever". See also <rescue mode>, <dual boot guide>, <supergrub>. Also works for EFI!
02:54<jm_>this shall help with chroot
02:54<E431-noob>wait. we gotta mount luks and the LVs
02:55<E431-noob>this prolly wont be simple
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02:55<E431-noob>and tower is in another room
02:55<E431-noob>long walk back and forth
02:55<jm_>that I can't help with - but I can tell you that might be the reason why grub doesn't work - several people lately reported issues with that and we told them to disable use of UUID in grub which helps (see /etc/default/grub)
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02:56<jm_>(but leave grub for now)
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02:56<E431-noob>that makes sense
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02:58<E431-noob>the test drive will be a solid state usb3.0 . will this be ok?
02:58<E431-noob>64GB capacity
02:58<jm_>test drive for what?
02:58<E431-noob>this install with the 3.10 kernel
02:58<jm_>you don't need to perform another install
02:59<E431-noob>if it works, a backup will be made and it will be put in service
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03:01<E431-noob>i have all the debian live CDs. including the rescue cd. which one do i boot? and how do i get luks mounted (i have the password)? then how do i mount the LVs ( / and /home )?
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03:03<jm_>maybe try this
03:04<jm_>i'm done with this, you can search for yourself
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03:05<E431-noob>i can try this
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03:07<E431-noob>thanks jm_
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03:09<jm_>no worries
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03:13<E431-noob>between those links and the info from dpkg i think i have everything i need to try it now, thanks
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03:24<E431-noob>jm_, any idea why the fans maintained a slow spin after booting the installed wheezy and warming up for a few minutes? (in spite of not having any software control over them)
03:25<E431-noob>it doesn't seem to do that unless kde is running
03:25<jm_>E431-noob: I am not really familiar with laptops - my guess would be some ACPI issue
03:25<E431-noob>just seems odd to me that the gui would make the diff
03:26<E431-noob>ok thanks anyways
03:26<jm_>did you check temperatures it reports with KDE/text mode/some simple wm?
03:27<E431-noob>i haven't got any of that to work yet
03:27<jm_>running sensors should report several
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03:29<E431-noob>today was my first sucessfull install/boot and so far i've just been installing packages. then even tho the fans were running debian crashed. it did this when apper was showing a list by description search term openpgp. i coldbooted after she cooled off and went straight back to that point. without warming up she immediately crashed again. i quit using apper for now. no further progress
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03:31<E431-noob>73% usage of / and less than 1% usage /home so i'll resize the LVs but it doesn't seem to be the issue. for now i think maybe a corrupted cache?
03:31<jm_>I never even heard of apper until now, maybe try using other tools to install, i.e. apt-get/aptitude or maybe synaptic if you want gui
03:32<E431-noob>yeah synaptic was on my list
03:32<jm_>check Xorg.0.log if there are any clues in there
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03:33<E431-noob>it took the whole system. turned the display into colored snow. the graphics shares memory with the ram so a corruption in that area of ram does that.
03:33<E431-noob>happens when deliberately zero'ed in tails too
03:34<jm_>yeah that sounds more like an X crash
03:34<jm_>that's why I said t check that log
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03:34<E431-noob>i been thru that nightmare once before
03:34<jm_>also, if you can connect to it remotely after it crashes like that, 'dmesg' might show something
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03:35<E431-noob>i gotta upgrade the network around here. i still did not allow a ssh server in the debian install so i don't think i can do that
03:35<jm_>KMS should prevent that from happening, but it doesn't really help if things are really corrupted
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03:37<jm_>!tell E431-noob -about kms
03:38<E431-noob>jm_, at the time of crash... the drive was hot and literally stopped responding. the (external) drive led went dead. it never lit again untill next boot after cooldown
03:38<E431-noob>i thought it was the drive controller
03:39<jm_>maybe it was due to overheating too, I don't know (install smartmontools and it'll log driver temperature too)
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03:39<E431-noob>oh cool!
03:39<E431-noob>actually i did that.. installed smartmontools
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03:40<jm_>then check if you have it in /var/lib/smartmontools/attrlog.....
03:41<E431-noob>she's cool enough now, booting to check ...
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03:43<jm_>some laptop targeted drives log max. attribute themselves too
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03:44<E431-noob>that dir is empty
03:45<E431-noob>what's the cli command to run those tools?
03:46<E431-noob>i can read a manpage if i knew which one
03:46<jm_>smartctl will show attributes too
03:46<jm_>you most likely have smartd disabled in /etc/default/smartmontools
03:47<E431-noob>unknown usb bridge. checking manpages for a " -d option "
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03:49<jm_>try using -d sat
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03:52<E431-noob>i enabled the smartd in that file. then /etc/init.d/smartd start. result= Starting S.M.A.R.T. daemon: smartd (failed)
03:52<jm_>check logs (syslog probably)
03:53<E431-noob>that worked
03:53<jm_>maybe nothing is uncommented in /etc/smartd.conf
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03:54<E431-noob>also correct
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03:55<E431-noob>wait... not correct
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03:57<E431-noob>has a devicescan line enabled. reading the file i get the point... better to explicitly specify the devices
03:57<jm_>I use devicescan without problems, try checking the logs
03:58<E431-noob>all this hocus pocus is why i want a solid backup restore plan (so i never have to start over from scratch)
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03:58<E431-noob> /var/log/?
03:59<E431-noob>no log for smart anything in /var/log
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04:00<E431-noob>there's an Xorg.0.log
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04:00<E431-noob>and an old one
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04:04<E431-noob>no crashes in the Xorg log file. i need to do an extensive memory test anyways
04:05<E431-noob>i'd do a cpu burn in if i could make the fans work
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04:12<E431-noob>just thermal crashed again. i ran out of time. was reading the syslog. just missed the crash point by a few lines i think. looks like acpi shutdon. maybe a bios sleep timer? i thought i disabled those. will check when she cools down a bit
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04:13<E431-noob>acpi shutdown
04:13<jm_>yeah probably to prevent damage
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04:14<E431-noob>well i have some well tested memory that is compatable. i'll upgrade with that for now and order replacement memory later. that leaves the never done cpu burnin
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04:14<chris>Hello peoples
04:14<chris>I am a new Debian user :)
04:14<chris>Thought I would have a chat with the community
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04:16<chris>And no one wants to talk to the newbie :(
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04:17<E431-noob>this is a brand new out of the box e431. first thing i did was remove the hdd and shelf it in case of warranty or return. can install cd do a cpu burn in? i saw an installer component but i don't know how to use it
04:17<jm_>you can trivially emulate cpu burn ...
04:17<E431-noob>sorry chris, i'm new too but not stable yet
04:18<chris>I had some hiccups as well
04:18<chris>My first install I did without an internet connection
04:18<chris>THEN I had NO GUI
04:18<chris>Just the Debian terminal
04:18<chris>So then I did a new install with a wired connection
04:18<E431-noob>jm_, what's your method?
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04:18<chris>And it worked
04:19<chris>Then was the issue of getting my wireless working
04:19<jm_>this is for a 4 core CPU: for a in 1 2 3 4; do gzip </dev/zero >/dev/null &; done
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04:19<jm_>chris: try saving your enter key a bit, it will be grateful!
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04:21<E431-noob>chris have you checked out #debian-offtopic ?
04:22<chris>Have now lol
04:22<E431-noob>enjoy :)
04:23<chris>This isn't considered an "off-topic" question, anyone have a list of Debian "essential" apps to get?
04:24<jm_>what is essential to you?
04:24<E431-noob>essential defined by task yes?
04:24<chris>Lol I mean, Everyday useful apps
04:24<chris>I dont have any specifics
04:25<chris>Although I am trying to learn Python
04:25<E431-noob>as i understand it, would be the killer app so to speak
04:25<jm_>each person has their own list of apps so just install what you need as you go
04:25<E431-noob>and for here, xchat
04:26<chris>I have konversation
04:26<chris>What is Synaptic exactly?
04:26<chris>Like a "store"?
04:27<E431-noob>your source of instruction for python should specify a linux toolset for that instruction. most of this is what you want to do, then personal preference of what you want to use to do it.
04:28<E431-noob>package manager
04:28<E431-noob>loads anything you need
04:28<E431-noob>any apps
04:29<chris>Dont understand your first statement
04:29<E431-noob>if you are entirely new to unix based systems as well as to linux in general then you have a lot of experimenting to do to determine what you prefer.
04:30<E431-noob>is there a way to tell chris about popcon?
04:30<chris>I am not completely new
04:30<chris>Have used Ubuntu in the past
04:30<E431-noob>and debian-reference-en
04:30<E431-noob>ok that's a good start
04:31<chris>And I am my "source" of instruction haha
04:31<E431-noob>so you already know a few apps
04:31<chris>I am starting from scratch lol
04:31<chris>Never learned a language before
04:31<chris>So I am starting with Python
04:31<E431-noob>ah then you may have picked a book to learn from and the book specifies the tools
04:32<chris>Lol I plan on googling everything I need to know my friend
04:32<chris>I get what you are saying though
04:32<chris>Find a project, and findout what tools I need to complete it
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04:32<chris>Then go get those specific tools to complete the task
04:33<E431-noob>yes however...
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04:33<E431-noob>there's no need to reinvent the wheel. a book or instructor would tell you that and give you a list of resources to search for existing solutions
04:34<E431-noob>perl has something for almost everything
04:34<E431-noob>for example
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04:34<E431-noob>the extra guidance is worth it
04:35<E431-noob>for all else there is google :)
04:35<chris>Check off-top
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04:52<E431-noob>well i'm out, thanks again for all the help
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05:22<tuxcrafter> < does somebody know how to tune my kernel paramaters to get rid of the page allocation failures i get almost daily when running snapshots with dd
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05:44<Maulkin>womo: Do you have a Debian question?
05:44<womo>no im sorry
05:44<womo>see you later
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07:01<wilson>hi there, has anybody installed debian wheezy in virtual box?
07:02<jm_>no doubt
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07:17<SOUL_OF_R00T>nice morning :)
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08:58*ivanov hi:)
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10:08<mshuler>tuxcrafter: since I've seen you ask the identical question over the last couple days, and have not gotten a response, I would suggest that you perhaps provide some additional info - the exact circumstances (what is the hw you are snapshotting, for instance)?; the exact command, output, and errors; what else have you tried?; etc..
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10:18<mshuler>tuxcrafter: a detail that is important, for instance.. the trace may suggest that you are dd'ing to an iSCSI mount, maybe?
10:18*mshuler goes off to do something else that does not involve reading minds..
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10:54<quci>hi. i try to set the system date to an arbitrary one. but a minute later it is back to what it was before. (i can see no ntp running...)
10:54<quci>any ideas?
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10:55<maxy>quci: is that a virtual machine?
10:55<quci>maxy: yes
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10:55<maxy>quci: Search for virtualbox time sync
10:56<rebli>is the classic version of gnome-shell gane forever?
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10:57<astran>hello everybody I am on jessie and after an upgrade this morning gnome is broken. I can log on tty but not on gnome
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10:59<mshuler>astran: what did you upgrade?
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11:00<astran>I made a full-upgrade
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11:01<abrotman>did you try running it again?
11:01<abrotman>can a new user login to gnome?
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11:01<astran>not on gnome, I hve a blanc page
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11:01<mshuler>rebli: there is some gtk2-ish fork (not sure of the name) or xfce/lxde/kde.. lots of choices, if gnome-shell isn't your fancy
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11:03<babilen>astran: Come and join us in #debian-next and paste information about what you ugpraded and your ~/.xsession-errors ; also try logging in with a new user and to log into a suitable window manager (e.g. fluxbox, openbox, awesome, ...)
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11:04<astran>i know but I need to fix this fast because I have to work on my pc. I don't even know how to connect on wifi with commandline
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11:04<mshuler>astran: so quick! read the suggestions you already have!
11:05<babilen>astran: -- you might also want to consider *not* running dist-upgrades if you can't afford downtime or to run stable in the first place if your box is important infrastructure
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11:06<rebli>where is gnome-session-flashback different from gnome-shell?
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11:06<gnugr>rebli:you can get MATE, mate-desktop if you want (it is fork of classic gnome)
11:07<babilen>gnugr: We don't support MATE for a number of reaons.
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11:08<babilen>rebli: It is the "fallback" variant (seems to be renamed) and provides a gnome2-esque interface that is being used if hardware support is missing for gnome-shell
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11:08<astran>If I connect on wifi I will work on xfce for a moment than try to fix gnome later
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11:09<babilen>rebli: gnome-session-flashback is also not in wheezy nor jessie so I assume you are running sid and should therefore head over to #debian-next
11:09<babilen>astran: So, XFCE works?
11:09<astran>wait I'm not yet connected
11:11<astran>ethernet worked without configuration
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11:12<astran>upgrade still installs gnome libs so may be it would work after
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11:14<rebli>is it possible to have a log of gdm3 because at startup all I obtain is black screen... I ought to start X with startx....
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11:15<astran>I tried, nothing haoppened
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11:17<babilen>astran: Which upgrade? Do you mean you didn't finish an upgrade? And please, lets continue in #debian-next :)
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11:23<leticia>hi cheers i want to know if is possible to install debian + grub in disks with raid, i want put swap and boot, home and root system all in lvm, .?
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11:26<quci>maxy: thanks!
11:26<quci>$ VBoxManage list vms
11:26<quci>$ VBoxManage setextradata "one of your choosing" "VBoxInternal/Devices/VMMDev/0/Config/GetHostTimeDisabled" 1
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11:28<petn-randall>leticia: Yes, it works, though the one part of your sentence didn't really connect to the other part.
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11:29<leticia>petn-randall, ty i never was installed /boot or swap in a array, now i will format all disk, alias debian installer doesnt come with check badblocks :\
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11:33<petn-randall>leticia: alias? Do you mean 'because'?
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11:36<leticia>petn-randall, its some like 'why' , because i need check disk before the instalation
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11:50<petn-randall>leticia: If you block devices support SMART, it would make more sense to run a long selftest.
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11:51<petn-randall>leticia: The way I'd format it is: small RAID1 with 100 MB for /boot, then another RAID1 on the rest of the disk with an LVM on it with / and anything else you need.
11:51<petn-randall>s/rest of the disk/rest of the two disks/
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12:06<lucho>Hi all! there is a way to do an old usb bluetooth works with linux kernel 3.2 and module btusb? I'm googling and seems hci_usb module was replaced by btusb... Sorry if my grammar is not good :)
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12:07<petn-randall>lucho: Sure, it should work out of the box.
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12:13<lucho>petn-randall, hum.... debian can detect the device (using lsusb), but bluetooth manager does not. There is a guide to troubleshoot bluetooth issues? (many thanks)
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12:18<petn-randall>lucho: What release are you on?
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12:19<lucho>petn-randall, stable (wheezy) -- Linux hawk 3.2.0-4-686-pae #1 SMP Debian 3.2.51-1 i686 GNU/Linux
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12:21<petn-randall>lucho: Can you paste the usb id from lsusb?
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12:22<lucho>petn-randall, sure! Bus 006 Device 015: ID 0a12:0002
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12:23<gnugr>lucho:"hcitool scan" doesn't work?
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12:24<petn-randall>,usbid 0a12:0002
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12:24<petn-randall>Pity judd only does PCI IDs.
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12:26<lucho_>gnugr, hcitool -i hci0 scan prints: "Inquiry failed: Connection timed out" after some seconds...
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12:26<gnugr>try hciconfig
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12:28<petn-randall>lucho: Does lsusb list any name after the ID? If not, try running 'update-usbids' before lsusb.
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12:29<lucho>petn-randall, "Cambridge Silicon Radio, Ltd Frontline Test Equipment Bluetooth Device" this is the description after usbid
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12:31<neo1691>I am using 64 bit wheezy. Is it safe to enable multiarch. dpkg --add-architecture i386? I want to install this library ia32-libs
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12:31<lucho>gnugr, # hciconfig hci0 piscan says "Can't set scan mode on hci0: Connection timed out (110)"
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12:33<lucho>gnugr, petn-randall , I really apreciate your help. Now I'll google for a solution many thanks!! :)
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12:45<petn-randall>neo1691: ia32-libs is a deprecated, transitional package. What 32bit app do you want to run?
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12:47<daemonkeeper>Is there a standard way to learn about the maximum screen resolution supported by my graphics adaptor?
12:48<petn-randall>daemonkeeper: read-edid should have the tools you need.
12:48<sblair>Hello I'm looking for assistance with booting the Debian net install ISO with grub 2 off a usb drive. I am able to do this Ubuntu but I cannot find documentation on doing this with Debian. I can get Debian to boot the /install.386/vmlinuz but when I get the install I get a message telling me I'm using an invalid CD.
12:48<Zaba>well, that'll only tell you about what is also supported by the monitor that's currently in use
12:49<daemonkeeper>Zaba: No, xrandr gives me supported modes in conjunction with the display.
12:49<daemonkeeper>That's not what I'm interested in.
12:50<PaulePanter>Hi. If I list two archive mirrors, in `/etc/apt/sources.list` ( and `/etc/apt/sources.list.d/local.list`, how does APT decide which one to use to download the packages from?
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12:51<daemonkeeper>PaulePanter: It does both.
12:52<daemonkeeper>PaulePanter: It uses both mirrors, and the one with the highest version wins (unless you set different preferences)
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12:55<neo1691>petn-randall, I got disconnected, I was saying I am trying to use adb
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12:55<neo1691>I downloaded android-sdk 64 bit from the official site
12:55<PaulePanter>daemonkeeper: Hmm. I have the official mirror in my `/etc/apt/sources.list` and the one in the local mirror in `/etc/apt/sources.list.d/local.list`. But only the ones from `sources.list` are used although these take longer. :(
12:56<daemonkeeper>PaulePanter: Same package versions?
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12:57<PaulePanter>daemonkeeper: Yes. The samples I made with some packages (apt-cache policy …) showed that the version are the same on both mirrors.
12:57<daemonkeeper>Well, I guess "first come, first used" then.
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12:58<gnugr>daemonkeeper:do you mean something like this
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12:59<neo1691>whats the opposite of dpkg --add-architecture i386
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13:00<neo1691>I want to remove this i386 entry
13:00<daemonkeeper>gnugr: What?
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13:01<gnugr>about maximum screen resolution
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13:02<daemonkeeper>And that relates how to my question?
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13:02<gnugr>wondering if you meant that
13:03<PaulePanter>daemonkeeper: Yupp, changing the ordering changes the behavior. Not so nice.
13:03<DNS>neo1691: you could try sudo apt-get remove --purge `dpkg --get-selections | grep i386 | awk '{print $1}'`
13:04<daemonkeeper>PaulePanter: man apt_preferences then.
13:04<DNS>and depending on your debian version this might work as well: dpkg --remove-architecture i386
13:04<daemonkeeper>gnugr: No, I wonder what _my_ video card supports.
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13:05<neo1691>DNS, I did that
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13:06<nightdrever>If im playing a game is there away to switch desktops without closing the game first as Ctrl Alt and arrow doesnt work when game in full screen
13:06<neo1691>DNS, but apt-get update still searches for i386 packages
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13:08<sblair>daemonkeeper: What is the make am model of the card and what driver are you using?
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13:08<PaulePanter>daemonkeeper: Thanks, but from `man apt-preferences`:
13:08<PaulePanter>Several instances of the same version of a package may be available when the sources.list(5) file contains references to more than one source. In this case apt-get downloads the instance listed earliest in the sources.list(5) file. The APT preferences do not affect the choice of instance, only the choice of version.«
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13:09<daemonkeeper>sblair: Sandy Bridge Intel graphics.
13:09<daemonkeeper>PaulePanter: I rather meant to change priorities with origin / pinning. But you probably don't want to do that.
13:10<DNS>neo1691: after you removed all packages, try: sudo dpkg --remove-architecture i386 && sudo apt-get update
13:10<DNS>then you shouldnt get i386 updates anymore
13:10<PaulePanter>daemonkeeper: Yes.
13:10<neo1691>DNS, thanks. Solved it
13:10<PaulePanter>daemonkeeper: It looks like it is not possible to configure.
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13:11<PaulePanter>daemonkeeper: From `man sources.list`: It is important to list sources in order of preference, with the most preferred source listed first. Typically this will result in sorting by speed from fastest to slowest (CD-ROM followed by hosts on a local network, followed by distant Internet hosts, for example).
13:11<neo1691>Wondering how to get ia32-libs
13:11<neo1691>to get adb working
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13:11<daemonkeeper>neo1691: You don't.
13:11<DNS>neo1691: ?
13:11<neo1691>daemonkeeper, well I want to run adb (android-sdk) but it bash says no such file or directory
13:12<neo1691>DNS, adb from android sdk
13:12<DNS>neo1691: sudo aptitude install android-tools-adb
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13:12<DNS>or apt-get whatever:)
13:12<neo1691>I downloaded the 64 bit version of android-sdk, and when I am in the appropriate folder and run ./adb it says no such file or directory
13:12<neo1691>ok ill try
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13:13<babilen>dpkg: tell neo1691 -about multiarch
13:13<daemonkeeper>neo1691: Yes, but ia32-libs is dead and gone. You use multiarch instead.
13:13<babilen>neo1691: You will need to enable wheezy-backports for android-tools-adb btw (/msg dpkg wheezy-backports)
13:13<neo1691>babilen: I already did that
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13:14<neo1691>so adb is available through the backports repository
13:14<babilen>If "that" == "enabled wheezy-backports" then "yay" else "what is 'that'?"
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13:15<neo1691>babilen: "that" == dpkg --add-architecture i386
13:15<neo1691>but after that still could not install ia32-libs
13:15<babilen>neo1691: Deictic references are not a good idea on IRC or in other situations in which the referend might not be obvious
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13:16<babilen>neo1691: You don't have to install ia32-libs (but you should be able to) as you can install the necessary libraries *directly*. It does, however, sound as if you simply forgot to run "apt-get update" after enabling i386.
13:16<neo1691>m facing a problem similar to this
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13:17<neo1691>babilen, I did run apt-get update after that
13:17<babilen>neo1691: Did you install android-tools-adb ?
13:17<neo1691>babilen: about to. Does this requires me to enable multiarch
13:17<babilen>neo1691: Okay, then provide more information on a pastebin. See "/msg dpkg bat" for some pointers on what we have to see.
13:17<babilen>neo1691: I thought you did that already?
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13:20<babilen>neo1691: btw, it is not adb that is not found but the program interpreter for i386 (i.e. /lib/ ) and probably a number of other libraries. Use "readelf -eh /path/to/adb" to see what is going on.
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13:23<rostam>HI I have created a deb file which requires and installs some custom rc script files. My questions are there any guidelines on custom rc script, like where in the /etc/ directories needs to be installed or how and at what run level should be invoked? thx
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13:23<neo1691>babilen, Would you like to have a look on my readelf output? High-level for me to grasp
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13:24<babilen>neo1691: I would primarily like to see the output of your installation attempt, sources.list and apt-cache output, but I wouldn't mind if you throw in the adb stuff too. I would furthermore recommend to install adb from backports.
13:24<babilen>rostam: You want #debian-mentors
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13:25<rostam>babilen, thx
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13:25<neo1691>babilen, readelf
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13:26<neo1691>babilen, sources.list
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13:27<neo1691>babilen, ls -l adb
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13:27<neo1691>./adb: No such file or directory when I run adb in that directory
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13:32<babilen>judd: v android-tools-sdb
13:32<judd>No package named 'android-tools-sdb' was found in i386.
13:32<babilen>judd: v android-tools-adb
13:32<judd>Package: android-tools-adb on i386 -- wheezy-backports: 4.2.2+git20130529-3~bpo70+1; jessie: 4.2.2+git20130529-3; sid: 4.2.2+git20130529-3
13:32<babilen>neo1691: Any particular reason why you didn't enable non-free for backports and wheezy-updates? You said that you cannot install ia32-libs, but I have yet to see evidence of that. I would, however, prefer it if you simply installed android-tools-adb with "apt-get -t wheezy-backports install android-tools-adb" and show me the output of that. Please run "apt-get update" once more before you do that.
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13:34<neo1691>babilen, apt-get update in still processing. I gave up on ia32-libs since I am about to try installing android-tools-adb
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13:54<neo1691>babilen, I was successful in installing adb thanks a lot
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13:57<manny0080>i need help setting up a ssh
13:58<retrospectacus>manny0080: what do you want to do, what did you try and what happened?
13:58<manny0080>i installed ssh pack
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13:59<manny0080>n i wanna beable to login in from my other computer so i can send music over n allso control my ubuntu computer
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14:00<retrospectacus>!ubuntuirc manny0080
14:00<dpkg>manny0080: This is not the Ubuntu help channel. Please do /server and then /join #ubuntu. If you are using XChat, you can right-click the following link and choose connect. irc://
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14:09<Human_G33k>hello, i need help with my ubuntu, no it's a joke. How can do encrypted partitions with debian. i have two hard drives one for /var a another for other partitions, i want move my /var partition to differents computers (sry for my en )
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14:11<jspiros>this isn't debian-specific but since I am using debian I figured I'd ask
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14:11<jspiros>I'm trying to figure out how to enable 800x600 resolution with my TV, which does not support it natively, by centering it on an effective 1280x720 display with a hard border or something
14:11<jspiros> that's my xrandr output
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14:14<retrospectacus>Human_G33k: what's the problem?
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14:23<Shadowpillar>manny0080, sudo -s
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14:25<Shadowpillar>manny0080, apt-get install openssh-server
14:25<Shadowpillar>manny0080, but for any other things to remote control it, ask #ubuntu
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14:27<rostam>HI is there a doc for how to make a daemon runs a service? thx
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14:28<retrospectacus>rostam: see /etc/init.d/skeleton
14:28<rostam>retrospectacus, thx
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14:49<Human_G33k>retrospectacus : i don't want do a mistake
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14:51<Human_G33k>i have a /boot and two encripted partitions with 2 lvm
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14:51<Human_G33k>a first lvm server : / , /tmp , /home, /usr , swap
14:52<Human_G33k>a second lvm var : /var
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14:53<Human_G33k>no mistakes ?
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15:00<alessio>una notte da leoni 3
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15:01<Human_G33k>So i try
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15:11<houms>is there a way to download all jpgs from a web site? e.g has jpgs but the names will vary but all start with the same letter TV
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15:11<retrospectacus>unless you know the actual names
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15:12<Human_G33k>and with wget he can't do that ?
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15:12<retrospectacus>you can't wget http://example/images/tv*.jpg , no.
15:13<houms>that is the thing they all have a number like tv123_somerandomish.jpg
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15:13<houms>i can manually go to each jpeg and get the urls, but is there not a faster way to do that?
15:13<Human_G33k>i don't know that for why i ask.
15:13<retrospectacus>houms: if you have a list of the files, sure
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15:14<houms>well no because I would need to go to each url first to get the files
15:14<houms>is there no way with curl/wget or python/ruby?
15:14<Human_G33k>maybe with a bash script
15:14<retrospectacus>you can script that too
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15:14<retrospectacus>it is totally site-dependent, we can't really tell you the commands
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15:15<Human_G33k>with a crawler ?
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15:16<houms>well i was thinking of using scrapy, but not familiar with it, which is what prompted me to ask before i spend a lot of time trying to get that working
15:17<jeep>houms, you can wget recursively
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15:17<houms>and the robots.txt does not disallow the dir I am trying to get the jpgs from so I am not sure why i cannot
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15:17<Human_G33k>you can bypass robots.txt
15:17<retrospectacus>houms: you certainly can, it just depends a lot on specific structure of the site
15:18<houms>well i have a wget going now recursively, just not sure it will get me what i want as it seems i have to hit and not
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15:18<retrospectacus>the images have to be linked from for that to work
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15:18<houms>which means it is recursing all dirs under the site . this is still going and has yet not pulled the imags dir that i want
15:18<jeep>houms, wget has a many options check out the man pages for it maybe mirror mode ?
15:18<retrospectacus>it's not really recursive, just follows all links
15:19<retrospectacus>within the same domain
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15:19<houms>is there a way to get wget just to target the dirs i want and not all dirs under domain?
15:19<blast007>houms: assuming it's a directory listing, maybe something like wget -nd -r -l 1 -A jpg (if not, see )
15:19<blast007>(was on example from there, but there are others too)
15:20<jeep>i am nopt sure about directory filtering but file type filtering for sure
15:21<houms>going to check it out that line gives me a 403 forbidden
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15:21<blast007>can you get to the URL you passed to wget in a normal browser?
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15:23<houms>if I choose an actual jpg in that dir for example i can wget it
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15:23<blast007>that's not what I asked. ;) Can you access the URL that generated a 403 error in wget if you use an actual browser?
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15:25<houms>no i get the same 403 error if i try to hit the dir live
15:25<retrospectacus>too bad, a directory listing would have made it easy
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15:26<blast007>where are you finding the URL for the image(s) you want to download? are they liked via an anchor (<a>) tag? or are they inside an <img> tag?
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15:31<william>How can I get IceWeasel 24 on Jessie?
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15:32<babilen>william: Pull it from sid (and you want #debian-next)
15:32<houms>on a map. seems its javascript
15:32<babilen>dpkg: tell william -about tum
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15:33<retrospectacus>24 is in wheezy-backports too. would that work?
15:33<retrospectacus>(and 25 and 26)
15:34<william>babilen: Will adding sid make it so a Jessie package is updated from sid? Not fully up on how the repos interact like that.
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15:35<rostam>HI I have custom card which we build a driver for it. The original implementation was in Redhtat 6.4 which is based on linux 2.6.28 (old) now I am porting the driver to debian and I get ioctl errors (unknown ioctl number). Is this right place to ask question on these issues? thx
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15:37<retrospectacus>william: you will have jessie and sid packages available, but default to jessie
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15:38<retrospectacus>william: and go to #debian-next for jessie/sid support
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15:40<jordanm>rostam: RHEL 6 is 2.6.32
15:40<jordanm>and 5 was 2.6.18, RHEL hasn't had a .28 kernel
15:40<rostam>jordanm, yes sorry my mistake.
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15:40<rostam>it is 2.6.32
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15:41<jordanm>rostam: I would guess the best place to ask would be the lkml
15:42<rostam>I can find any channel with that name or linux kernel module!!
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15:43<retrospectacus>dpkg: tell rostam about lkml
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15:44<jordanm>we have rebooted prd12 14 times in october
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16:39<keep>pra que serve essa sala ???
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16:40<dpkg>Este canal é apenas em inglês. Por favor, use #debian-br (/j #debian-br) para ajuda em portugues.
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16:44<marco_>hi, i need help with my usb wifi adapter
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16:46<magnetophon>Hi I'm trying to ssh to a server. I can ping its IP, I can do "ssh user@host.local", but when I do "ssh user@the.IP.number" I get "ssh: connect to host the.IP.number port 22: Connection refused". What is going on?
16:46<magnetophon>marco_ what is the problem?
16:46<babilen>dpkg: tell magnetophon about connection refused
16:47<ectospasm>magnetophon: does "ping host.local" return the same IP address as the.IP.number?
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16:49<marco_>i plug it and the system does not recognize it, iwconfig returns empty
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16:50<marco_>the name of the adapter is TP-Link tl-wn722n
16:50<magnetophon>ectospasm: aha! no it doesn't. it returns an 192.168 address, but the.IP.number I got from "" is an outside address.
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16:51<marco_>looking around, i found it has an atheros chipset, so i downloaded mad-wifi drivers
16:51<marco_>but it still doesn't appear
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16:54<retrospectacus>marco_: ..."Mad-wifi" still exists? I think you want firmware-atheros
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16:56<marco_>retrospectacus: um, that's what i found googling around. what do you suggest?
16:57<retrospectacus>marco_: apt-get install firmware-atheros
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17:00<marco_>retrospectacus: should i reboot?
17:00<retrospectacus>marco_: no
17:00<retrospectacus>marco_: simply re-plugging the device should suffice
17:01<engy>film horror
17:01<marco_>retrospectacus: there it is. thank you!
17:01<retrospectacus>engy: this is not a search engine
17:01<retrospectacus>marco_: enjoy
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17:19<magnetophon>ectospasm: OK, so the IP I'm using seems to be the IP of my router, cause I get the same number from 2 PC's on the same network when I look it up on one of those IP lookup sites. does correctly ID the browser running on one of the PC's. How do I get to the actual PC instead of the router?
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17:20<ectospasm>check the DNS of your router, make sure it doesn't have a link for host.local to the RFC 1918 address (192.168....)
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17:21<DNS>im not on his router right now
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17:23<magnetophon>ectospasm: you lost me there I know DNS in the context of webservers, but what do I need to do now?
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17:23<ectospasm>magnetophon: well, your router is most likely acting as the DNS server for your network.
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17:24<magnetophon>ectospasm: right.
17:24<ectospasm>...if it has a record which directs all internal traffic to host.local to an internal address...
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17:27<magnetophon>ectospasm: not sure how to do that. could you point me to somewhere to read up on this stuff? Or some terms to google for?
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17:28<ectospasm>magnetophon: what kind of router do you have?
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17:28<magnetophon>ectospasm: sitecom
17:28<ectospasm>I can't help there.
17:28<ectospasm>magnetophon: do you have shell access to the sitecom router?
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17:29<magnetophon>ectospasm: let me check
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17:30<magnetophon>ectospasm: nope. only trough the browser interface.
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17:30<ectospasm>yeah, you'd have to look into the DNS or hosts file, for static mappings
17:30<ectospasm>or something
17:31<retrospectacus>what's he trying to do?
17:31<ectospasm>I don't really know what else to call them.
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17:31<magnetophon>retrospectacus: me?
17:31<ectospasm>retrospectacus: he's getting an internal (RFC1918) address when pinging host.local.
17:31<retrospectacus>magnetophon: sorry, yes, what are you trying to do
17:31<ectospasm>er, ssh'ing to host.local
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17:31<retrospectacus>that sounds normal
17:32<ectospasm>apparently it's supposed to point to an external address.
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17:32<retrospectacus>... why?
17:32<magnetophon>retrospectacus: eventually I want to ssh and vnc to my moms PC from my home....
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17:32<retrospectacus>why would it
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17:33<retrospectacus>magnetophon: standard way is: forward port 22 on your mom's router to her PC; know her public IP and ssh to it
17:34<retrospectacus>though you can rig up more complex methods if there is a difficulty with that
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17:36<magnetophon>retrospectacus: OK, let me try that. (though I already have port 5900 forwarded for vnc, but I'm not getting a connection, that's why I first tried to ssh)
17:36<retrospectacus>ssh is all you need
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17:37<retrospectacus>if you really want VNC you can tunnel it through ssh ;)
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17:38<magnetophon>retrospectacus: that's what I'm trying to do, but I know too little of networking.
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17:39<ectospasm>magnetophon: just set up dynamic DNS at your mom's place, and do this: ssh -l user
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17:40<magnetophon>ectospasm: I'll have to google a bit to understand that.
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17:40<ectospasm>magnetophon: or, if you have your own domain...
17:40<retrospectacus>magnetophon: well, first of all your mom's PC must run an sshd (and/or vncserver). You must know her private IP there. Then on her router, forward ports 22 and/or 5900 to her private IP. record her public IP. At your house, just ssh/vnc to her public IP
17:41<magnetophon>retrospectacus: I think I have all of that.
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17:41<magnetophon>retrospectacus: but I get "port 22: Connection refused"
17:42<magnetophon>retrospectacus: it works if I use the private IP though
17:42<retrospectacus>magnetophon: wait, are you at her house, or your house
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17:42<magnetophon>retrospectacus: hers
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17:43<retrospectacus>magnetophon: that's normal then. No need to forward a port or know the public IP
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17:43<retrospectacus>and depending on the router, connecting out and in like that may or may not work
17:44<magnetophon>retrospectacus: but eventually I want it to work from my house too. that's the point
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17:44<retrospectacus>magnetophon: then you have to test it from your home
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17:45<magnetophon>retrospectacus: are you saying it might not work since I'm testing from hers?
17:45<magnetophon>retrospectacus: is that what you mean by "connecting out and in like that"?
17:46<magnetophon>retrospectacus: OK, I'll test via my 3G then.
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17:49<retrospectacus>magnetophon: the thing ectospasm was warning about, is that your Mom's public IP might change. You can use "dynamic DNS" to be able to use a free DNS name to connect (e.g. instead of the public IP
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18:11<luckyuser>hi all
18:11<luckyuser>someone italian?
18:11<ectospasm>only 25%
18:12<ectospasm>well, Sicilian
18:12<luckyuser>odio i siciliani...
18:12<ectospasm>My brother speaks Italian. I don't know anything but ciao...
18:12<luckyuser>ne ho sposata una...
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18:12<dpkg>Ciao, vai su #debian-it per ricevere aiuto in italiano. Italian Speakers: Please use #debian-it, there you will get much more help.
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18:13<luckyuser>bya bye
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18:33<houms>what kind of speeds am i supposed to be getting for buffered disk reads on sata2?
18:34<magnetophon>retrospectacus: I had some trouble getting my hotspot to work but I finally managed to ssh via the public IP. now on to vnc, so I can show my mom how to do stuff. No dice yet...
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18:35<magnetophon>retrospectacus, ectospasm: In any case: thanks so far!!!
18:35<retrospectacus>magnetophon: install package x11vnc and read its manual
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18:36<retrospectacus>magnetophon: linux does not use vnc in the same manner as windows, for the most part. x11vnc is the most similar
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18:37<magnetophon>retrospectacus: I've got it working via the local IP, just not via the public IP. And I haven't used anything but linux since win98, thank you very much! ;)
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18:38<retrospectacus>magnetophon: forward port 5900 and that should be good to go~
18:38<retrospectacus>or 5800 for vnc over http iirc
18:40<houms> the disk is sata2 and the kernel reports 3.0Gb but I am seeing ~99MB for disk reads via hdparm
18:40<magnetophon>retrospectacus: I have forwarded 5900
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18:43<houms>magnetophon are you trying to setup vnc over internet through nat firewall?
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18:43<houms>or are you trying to port forward over ssh?
18:44<magnetophon>houms: not sure which. I'm using whatever remmina uses...
18:46<houms>remmina can use a bunch of different protos though
18:46<houms>I think it supports rdp,vnc,ssh
18:46<magnetophon>houms: vnc over ssh, but not sure which of the two you mentioned.
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18:47<houms>its either you are vnc'ing directly into a machine or you are sshing and creating a port forward in ssh session to tunnel vnc over.
18:47<houms>i would not think you would want to open vnc up to the world
18:49<retrospectacus>magnetophon: just show your mom how to use IRC and get here, and she's good to go
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18:50<houms>which is just a matter of installing one of the clients cause debian is configured by default in konversation and quassel no?
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18:50<magnetophon>retrospectacus: you don't want that. She'll start reading adds in the browser when I ask her what she sees on the screen. really!
18:51<retrospectacus>we'll show her how to install adblock
18:51<magnetophon>retrospectacus: ;)
18:51<houms>if she has iceweasel installed it is just installing iceweasel-adblock-plus
18:52<houms>which desktop is she using
18:52<magnetophon>houms: gnome
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18:52<houms>is she using iceweasel?
18:52<magnetophon>houms: yes, why?
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18:53<houms>is she setup for sudo or su to root?
18:53<magnetophon>the adds thing was just an example. she doesn't know the difference between a program, a website and an add.
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18:53<linuxator>hm... intresting
18:53<magnetophon>houms: neither. I have the root PW, and I use su on her machine
18:54<retrospectacus>magnetophon: we can tell you how to use vnc over ssh when you're home, it's easy
18:54<houms>magnetophon sorry i was not aware it was an example
18:55<magnetophon>retrospectacus: I have my laptop connected via a 3G hotspot on my phone, so you can show me now.
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18:55<retrospectacus>magnetophon: ok: ssh -L5900:remotePrivateIp:5900
18:55-!-user [~user@] has joined #debian
18:55<retrospectacus>then vncviewer localhost
18:56<retrospectacus>magnetophon: ok: ssh -L5900:remotePrivateIp:5900 remotePublicIP
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18:56<retrospectacus>that is
18:56<retrospectacus>sorry. too much coffee
18:56<magnetophon>retrospectacus: :)
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18:57<retrospectacus>actually, ssh -L5900:localhost:5900 mom@momsIP
18:57<retrospectacus>no need for the remote private IP
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19:00<magnetophon>retrospectacus: OK, so now I'm logged in, but no vnc yet. (how could it work, right?)
19:01<retrospectacus>now, start your vnc client and point it to localhost
19:01<retrospectacus>the ssh connection will relay the packets
19:01<magnetophon>retrospectacus: this I could have done via "ssh mom@momsIP"
19:01<magnetophon>retrospectacus: right.
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19:02<magnetophon>retrospectacus: seems like I'm missing -X?
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19:02<retrospectacus>magnetophon: no, not necessary
19:03<magnetophon>retrospectacus: anyway, I'm getting "cannot open display"
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19:04<retrospectacus>magnetophon: no, run vncviewer on your local PC
19:04<retrospectacus>in a new terminal
19:04<retrospectacus>leave the ssh just sitting there
19:05<retrospectacus>or use remmina, connect to localhost VNC
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19:08<retrospectacus>magnetophon: this assumes you are not running a vnc server on your localhost (laptop?)
19:08<magnetophon>retrospectacus: I'm getting "authentication failed." Also I'd rather use a method I can somewhat understand. I have no idea what that ssh command you gave me does.
19:08<magnetophon>retrospectacus: no
19:08<retrospectacus>magnetophon: it simply opens port 5900 on your laptop, tunnels the traffic through the ssh connection to the remote host
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19:09<retrospectacus>read "man ssh" the -L section for a detailed description
19:10<magnetophon>retrospectacus: OK, thanks. So I'm asked for my vnc password, and then I get "authentication failed."
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19:11<retrospectacus>well it is the password of your mom's PC
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19:11<retrospectacus>'s vnc server
19:11<retrospectacus>same as you would enter when connecting over her LAN
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19:12<magnetophon>retrospectacus: I know
19:13<retrospectacus>does the "ssh -L... " command output any warning/error about "cannot bind port"
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19:13<magnetophon>retrospectacus: no
19:14<retrospectacus>do you have to use a password when using the LAN?
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19:15<drhouse123>hi! cp -ax / /mnt is preferable for moving system or cp -rax / /mnt ?
19:15<magnetophon>retrospectacus: strangely: without ssh, yes, with ssh no. (remmina's implementation of the ssh thing, that is...)
19:16<retrospectacus>ahhhh I have never used remmina, what is it's "implementation of the ssh thing", exactly?
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19:19<magnetophon>retrospectacus: remmina has a tab where you can tell it to "enable ssh tunnel", and choose a server and an auth method.
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19:20<retrospectacus>oh... well I *guess* you want to ignore that, or forget the "ssh -L ..." part
19:20<magnetophon>retrospectacus: I never turned it on for your localhost method
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19:21<retrospectacus>magnetophon: I simply do "ssh -L5900:localhost:5900 remote" then open a new terminal "vncviewer localhost" , works perfect
19:21<magnetophon>retrospectacus: just when I use remmina over lan I have tried both with and without ssh, and both work.
19:22<magnetophon>retrospectacus: I'll try that. let me install vncviewer
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19:24<magnetophon>retrospectacus: Authentication failure
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19:28<magnetophon>retrospectacus: OOPS! sorry I had changed the password.... sorry for the confusion! It works now!
19:28<magnetophon>retrospectacus: thanks a lot!
19:29<retrospectacus>no problem
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19:32<magnetophon>retrospectacus: IIUC I dont need to forward 5900 on the router if I use your method, right?
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19:34<retrospectacus>magnetophon: right
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19:36<jcarney1987>Quick question, I know server max load is physical cores x 1, but when you read top or PS and the CPU usage is based on percentage, would that percentage be based off of 100% per core or is it based off of all cores? Say a user is using 25% cpu in a 4 w/ht physical core system. Would he be using the equiv to 1 core?
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19:37<retrospectacus>jcarney1987: no
19:37<jcarney1987>So another words if a users was using 100% cpu usage reported by PS, they would be using all full 4 cores then.
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19:38<SamB>jcarney1987: I think that might actually be an option for top
19:38<Infiltrator>Not according to the man page, on line 373. And you can toggle it.
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19:39<Infiltrator>(That's for top; I'm sure that ps too has something in the man page.)
19:39<SamB>Infiltrator: line 373?
19:39<Infiltrator>SamB: Well, line 373 for me; Your Results May Vary™.
19:39<retrospectacus>my atop says "780% idle"
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19:39<retrospectacus>on a 8-core
19:39<SamB>when I run man it doesn't show any line numbers
19:40<SamB>also I'm using a 100-column terminal so yeah, probably my results do vary
19:40<Infiltrator>SamB: Just do /cpu
19:40<Infiltrator>That's how I found it.
19:41<SamB>oh, now I see a line number
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19:44<jcarney1987>Okay, well what I'm looking at, if top or `ps aux` reports a process at 100%, its actually referring that the physical processor is a max capacity.
19:45<retrospectacus>one core.
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19:47<SamB>jcarney1987: most likely; theoretically it could have two threads each at 50% on different cores, but it would probably be difficult to pull this off even on purpose, nevermind having it happen accidentally ...
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20:53<themill>keep: can we help?
20:53<keep>TUDO BEM
20:53<mzx89>a "friend" of mine ran an rmmod command on one of the modules i need and now a device i use no longer works. is there anyway to undo this?
20:54-!-mode/#debian [+q *!*@] by ChanServ
20:54<Infiltrator>mzx89: Do you know which module it was? If so, just insmod it back in.
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20:55<Infiltrator>!tell keep -about ask
20:55<mzx89>yes, i do. thanks!
20:56<mzx89>Error: could not load module "modulename": No such file or directory :(
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20:57<mzx89>the command that he ran was "rmmod 'module' 2>/dev/null"
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20:58<Infiltrator>Which module is it? You could just apt* reinstall the package for it.
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21:00<mzx89>well the thing is it was removed for a reason, because i wanted to compile an open-source driver for the device which i got. but when i ran 'make' to compile the driver, i was getting errors and i think it's because this is a fresh debian install and i am missing some required packages needed to compile software. do you know which packages are needed to do that besides build-essentials?
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21:02<retrospectacus>not without seeing the make errors
21:02<Infiltrator>mzx89: What he said.
21:02<mzx89>this is it:
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21:04<retrospectacus>and linux-headers-3.10-0.bpo.3-686-pae
21:06<mzx89>i have 3.10-0.bpo3 so would the linux-headers already be on my system?
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21:07<retrospectacus>your paste indicates it is not
21:08<mzx89>you're right, it wasn't
21:08<mzx89>downloading now. thanks for spotting that
21:10<retrospectacus>but like the wiki sayd, the rtl8187se driver is included in the kernel
21:10<retrospectacus>it should be at /lib/modules/3.10-0.bpo.3-rt-686-pae/kernel/drivers/staging/rtl8187se/r8187se.ko
21:10<retrospectacus>not -rt but something like that
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21:10<mzx89>ya it does work out of the box. the one i downloaded though just has some modifications
21:11<retrospectacus>hm, alright
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21:12<mzx89>got this one now lol
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21:13<mzx89>wish i was good enough to be able to look at stuff like this and know what's wrong
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21:14<retrospectacus>yeah not sure about that one. At first glance it seems to be an error in the rtl8187_linux_26.1010.0622.2006/ieee80211/ieee80211.h file
21:14<retrospectacus>not any missing library or anything
21:14<mzx89>so this time at least it's not a problem with my system but with what i'm trying to compile
21:16<mzx89>ok well i may just use the one that comes with the kernel i guess
21:16<retrospectacus>you could contact the people who wrote that, see if they have a pre-built module, or try your hand at C coding ;)
21:17<mzx89>lol there are a bunch of files, i wouldn't know where to begin
21:18<mzx89>it looks like this driver is from 2006 though. lol
21:18<retrospectacus>what's wrong with the one that came with the kernel?
21:19<mzx89>nothing i just thought it's cool that the community wrote this one on their own
21:19<mzx89>it's supposed to let you adjust the power and stuff
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21:42<mzx89>still around retro? i can't find the driver using apt-get install
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21:47<jeep>mzx89: have you tried using vanilla sources ?
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21:48<mzx89>what does that mean? i ran an rmmod command yesterday that disabled/got rid of the modules now i need them back but insmod 'modulename' doesn't work
21:49<jeep>mzx89: how did you get rid of the modules ? blacklisting them or rm them ?
21:50<mzx89>rmmod r8187 rtl8187 2>/dev/null
21:51<jeep>mzx89: modprobe r8187 errors ?
21:51<mzx89>FATAL: Module r8187 not found.
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21:52<jeep>mzx89: i would build a whole new kernel i have found it to be way easier than chasing headers gcc version ect. ect.
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21:53<mzx89>i've never done that before though. is there some way i can just re-install my current kernel from the .deb file in the repos and have it fix the issue?
21:54<jeep>mzx89: yeah that might work
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21:55<jeep>mzx89: kernel compiling is actually really easy now debian specific directions in the middle for making the .deb
21:55<mzx89>do you happen to know the command to force something to re-install? because if i try apt-get install it will say it's already installed
21:55<mzx89>ok thanks i'll read that link
21:56<mzx89>what's the benefit of compiling the kernel myself though as opposed to getting the .deb pre-packaged?
21:57<SamB>mzx89: there's a flag to apt for that
21:57<jeep>well your network card will work and you can take all the extra stuff out sometimes there seems to be a bit of speed gain
21:57<SamB>mzx89: try again with the --reinstall flag
21:57<mzx89>nice Sam
21:58<mzx89>cool jeep, i'll read into it
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22:17<mzx89>just wanted to thank you guys. re-installing the kernel fixed it
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23:02<woody>installed wheezy on my laptop. I can not copy files to the desktop? or pin some apps to the dash. what is up with that?
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23:06<bobianite>@woody assuming ur using gnome3, open Advanced Settings
23:06<bobianite>Desktop > Have file manager handle the desktop to "on"
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23:07<woody>yes gnome 3.42
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23:09<woody>i have just looked at file manager preferences, I did not see the option you mentioned
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23:10<bobianite>it's in advanced settings, a separate application from system settings
23:11<woody>Yes, and thank you, looks great :)
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23:13<woody>I installed firefox, I am not sure about iceweasle, they are similar, but are they equal and secure?
23:13<bobianite>iceweasel is debian's version of firefox
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23:14<bobianite>something to do with firefox's license and not being "free software"
23:14<bobianite>but they're the same
23:15<bobianite>as far as i know
23:16<woody>is iceweasel as secure as firefox?
23:17<woody>oh, i think you answered that, sri if i am repeating myself
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23:17<SamB>it's something to do with trademark licensing, yes ...
23:18<woody>ok, to heck with trademarks, i just want to use and support good, safe and secure software.
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23:20<woody>thanks again for your help. I would of been lost for another few hours with out your support. I have nothing but kind words for your assistance. got to go, bye for now.
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23:27<Ipsilon>If I replace my graphics card (both use same drivers) would not reinstalling be a problem?
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23:29<SamB>Ipsilon: considering that people tend to run X without a config file these days, no, it shouldn't be a problem at all ...
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23:43<redshadowhero>Does anyone know when gnome 3.6 is supposed to hit Jessie?
23:44<themill>never I would guess, since most of gnome 3.8 is already there
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23:46<redshadowhero>Huh. It still says 3.4 for me.
23:48<redshadowhero>Er. Sorry. I meant gnome-shell --version
23:49<SamB>that's just one component
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23:49<themill>redshadowhero: yeah, gnome-shell is about the only bit that isn't in the "most"
23:49<themill>!why is gnome-shell not in testing
23:49<dpkg>gnome-shell is not in testing for the reasons listed in
23:50<themill>interesting... the rc bug that it had is suddenly no longer rc
23:51<redshadowhero>Well, darn. Maybe there's some hope though. I read 3.6 and later introduce lock screen notifications; does this mean the component that provides the lock screen is probably 3.8, then?
23:51<redshadowhero>...I guess not, since the key that turns it on isn't there.
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---Logclosed Thu Oct 24 00:00:17 2013