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#debian IRC Logs for 2013-12-08

---Logopened Sun Dec 08 00:00:13 2013
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01:39<luly>hola che respondamen no sean wuachos
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01:42<luly>na menira
01:42<luly>que acen
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02:26<Kelwin>hwr uh?
02:26<gry>a bit slow but ok
02:28<gry>not debian related, try another channel
02:28<gry>they manage to log this channel publicly so i'm not thrillingly interested in socialising here
02:29<gry>few non debian topics in #debian-offtopic for example
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02:29<MrTea>text tese
02:29<MrTea>text test
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02:49<synaptic>hi, what can i install for visual effect like compiz with wheezy and mate de?
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03:58<xeon-enouf>Hi people; I'm trying to updrade to Wheezy/Stable from a very old mish-mash of Sid from long ago; most of my pkgs are of Wheezy or even older age at this time... I altered sources.list accordingly, and ran 'sudo apt-get update' ; seems GPG keys errors;
03:58<xeon-enouf>I've tried to resolve the issues using various incantations (after using & to no avail) -- help/guidance? Oh.. output of "sudo apt-key list" is
03:59<SamB>xeon-enouf: tried "upgrading to squeeze" first?
04:00<xeon-enouf>SamB: hadn't yet.. you think i should? I can't see the key issue being resolved from that though... hrmmm
04:00<xeon-enouf>SamB: i actually only ran "update" so far, not even upgrade
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04:02<xeon-enouf>btw SamB - thanks for the reply ; i'm in no hurry; i prefer to understand what i am doing instead (though i used to know much more about it, but i haven't been tied into all this lately)
04:03<xeon-enouf>I know about D-A-K (debian-archive-keyring) and such. and recall a command using '...| sudo apt-key add NNNNNNNN' to add keys; but sadly forgot all that
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04:05<blubberdiblub>the ... is probably just a wget some-url
04:06<nocturnal>in that case it would be add -
04:06<nocturnal>not add key-data
04:06<xeon-enouf>Full Disclosure; when i was using Sid, from atleast 2yrs ago, i also had the apt_preferences using experimental, but was set to very low priority -- that's all commented out/altered now though -- and fwiw
04:06<xeon-enouf>:~$ cat /etc/apt/apt.conf
04:06<xeon-enouf>APT::Default-Release "stable";
04:07<nocturnal>if this computer has not been updated for along time then I would follow SamB's advice. try to go through the releases from squeeze.
04:07<SamB>it's not as if {dist-,safe-,}upgrade is going to downgrade anything, right?
04:08<xeon-enouf>yes nocturnal, right, i understand (very selectively updated/upgraded)- ok then
04:08<nocturnal>if you run into key trouble we can help you manually add a repo key.
04:10<xeon-enouf>SamB: i don't think so, perhaps one or two pkgs at most.... I'm unclear of these dist-, safe- options; they seem new for apt-get upgrade... i suppose
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04:11<xeon-enouf>nocturnal: thanks - i'll trudge along
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04:13<ronald>anyone here
04:14<ronald>im not sure what im doin
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04:28<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on See <smart questions><errors>.
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04:29<SamB>nocturnal: he's already gone?
04:30*nocturnal does not show joins and quits =)
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04:31<xeon-enouf>SamB: thanks - to follow up; don't lines 23-27 show i have to Squeeze keys? ... Ok, i replaced stable with squeeze in both /etc/apt/sources.list and /etc/apt/apt.conf (old-stable there actually) Ran apt-get update, no issues shown; so .. upgrade now?
04:32<xeon-enouf>nocturnal: i block those too, heh, if tab-completion shows them gone, no bother replying, heh
04:32<xeon-enouf>failbot SamB :-P
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04:32<SamB>xeon-enouf: well, probably, but you MIGHT wnat to check the release notes for squeeze?
04:33<xeon-enouf>SamB: why, i want to end up with Wheezy ;-)
04:33<SamB>just in case there are any special steps
04:35*xeon-enouf loathes non-equivalent-heights on the steps of staircases
04:36<xeon-enouf>i have atleast apt version 0.7+ .. so i'm going to do a dist-upgrade
04:36<ompaul>read the release docs there was something about udev -
04:37<ompaul>somewhere back lenny -
04:37<ompaul>> squeeze iirc
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04:37<ompaul>SamB: I want to complain about the enter key - see there I done it :)
04:37<xeon-enouf>ompaul: thanks, but do you think the dist-upgrade requires a reboot? kernel?
04:37<ompaul>it will
04:37<SamB>xeon-enouf: ANOTHER good reason to read the release notes
04:38<ompaul>but I think there is a step
04:38<ompaul>and you have been told
04:38<xeon-enouf>dammit .. i'm not doing any raid, lvm, crypto ... yet.. so
04:38<ompaul>udev is going to trip you up
04:38<ompaul>have fun debugging that
04:39<xeon-enouf>udev sucks ; and so does varied X changes ..
04:39<ompaul>xeon-enouf: that's opinion, what is fact is you were told ...
04:39*xeon-enouf recalls all that noise, from back then, but it mostly involved dm-*
04:39<xeon-enouf>ompaul: ok
04:40*xeon-enouf reads the 'release notes' .. where are they?
04:40<dpkg>See for an explanation of releases. See <release history> or for prior releases. Ask me about <stable>, <testing>, <unstable> and <introduction>.
04:41<ompaul>!lenny -> squeeze
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04:41<xeon-enouf>thanks, but seems i have a special relationship with dpkgbot :-P
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04:42<ompaul>kde buffer does not clear on sid on reboot ... apt-get --solver aspcud upgrade
04:42<xeon-enouf>I appreciate all your help ompaul SamB nocturnal
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04:56<wekalaner1>hello. i have got a intel i217 ethernet card, which the stable version does not recognise. What's my simplest option of getting networking running? (please note that i do not have any access to online repositories as it is the ethernet that is not working)
04:56<wekalaner1>*debian stable does not recognise it
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04:59<ompaul>wekalaner1: what are you trying to install version wise ... don't say stable say it's name
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05:00<wekalaner1>i always get confused with the name, thus i use stable. but the name is wheezy
05:00<xeon-enouf>so, "wired", rather than wireless, right?
05:01<dpkg>I217 is a LAN on Motherboard (LOM) device available on systems with Intel's "Lynx Point" Platform Controller Hub (PCH) chipset. I217-LM (PCI ID 8086:153a) and I217-V (PCI ID 8086:153b) are supported by the <e1000e> driver since Linux 3.5. For device support on Debian 7 "Wheezy" systems, ask me about <bdo kernel>.
05:01<xeon-enouf>wekalaner1: ^
05:01<musca>!bdo kernel
05:01<dpkg>Newer kernels for Debian stable releases are available from the "wheezy-backports" repository. Ask me about <wheezy-backports> to modify your sources.list, then run «aptitude update». To install the current backported kernel: «aptitude -t wheezy-backports install linux-image-`uname -r|sed 's,[^-]*-[^-]*-,,'`». To list available backported kernel image packages: «aptitude search '?narrow(~nlinux-image,?origin(Debian Backports))'».
05:01<ompaul>musca: which is the same answer :)
05:02<musca>hi ompaul :)
05:02<ompaul>wekalaner1: time for a usb stick
05:02<xeon-enouf>the backported kernels supply upgraded drivers for newer hardware
05:02<ompaul>wekalaner1: is it a server or a desktop?
05:03<xeon-enouf>bdo =, fwiw
05:04<ompaul>musca: and openoffice fixed in SID
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05:05<wekalaner1>people in the forum speak about installing a backport kernel, but i do not want a backport kernel…there is a reason i decided to go for debian stable :/
05:05<xeon-enouf>heh, so i presume the e1000e "bricking" issues have been resolved ;-)
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05:06<wekalaner1>bricking issues?
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05:06<ompaul>wekalaner1: so you see you can bring back the driver yourself and you have to maintain the kernel yourself for the life of the machine
05:06<ompaul>those are your choices
05:07<ompaul>wekalaner1: that's the consequence of that, or you go to the shop and buy a cheap card
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05:07<ompaul>if you are "stuck on stable" as your own choic
05:08<ompaul>obviously looking for a card that has been around a couple of years
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05:08<wekalaner1>another card is not an option either - i am using multiple OSes, so i do not want to add another cable/replug the cable
05:09<wekalaner1>where can i read about installing a kernel from backports? also, will these kernel get security fixes?
05:09<xeon-enouf>wekalaner1: eeprom; a few yrs ago ;
05:10<xeon-enouf>wekalaner1: bpo is a part of "official" for a few yrs now, so..
05:10<xeon-enouf>er bdo
05:11<ompaul>wekalaner1: do this /msg dpkg bpo
05:11<wekalaner1>sorry for not knowing but i am completely new to the debian world. i swapped from archlinux as i cannot afford to update in a frequency that a rolling release distro asks for…
05:11<ompaul>wekalaner1: bot will message you back and you wouldn't have to change the cable because your other o/s would pick up an ip
05:11<ompaul>unless it is totally brain dead
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05:11<ompaul>which is unlikely
05:12<wekalaner1>ompaul: i wouldnt call it brain dead but i have assembled a hackintosh which is very picky with hardware...
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05:12<padski>wekalaner1, also, it is not a big issue to build an out-of-tree driver and maintain it against the stable kernel. (From memory as long as they get the version numbering right!)
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05:13<wekalaner1>padski: what do you reckon how often i need to rebuild the kernel? i guess it is a lot of hassle if i have to get the usb stick every time and find the newest version...
05:13<ompaul>wekalaner1: you can also boot to the previous kernel and suck in on it
05:13<ompaul>wekalaner1: it's not that broken a paradigm
05:13<sakax>hello debian community! i put a SSD in my netbook and will reinstall latest debian wheezy... do I need to do something special for the SSD or is all done uatomatically like installing on a regular hdd?
05:14<wekalaner1>well, as i swapped to wheezy in order to minimise system maintenancen i don't like these options very much....
05:14<heckman>sakax: you should make some modifications to your fstab file. I don't think that's done automatically.
05:14<valdyn>sakax: its like a regular hd
05:14<sakax>heckman, can you provide me with more details?
05:15<ompaul>wekalaner1: well it is about choice, for the position you put yourself in with that board
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05:15<sakax>do I need a swap partition with a SSD?
05:15<wekalaner1>if i go for a backports kernel, will this mean furhter maintenance or is it a thing i only have to deal with once?
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05:15<heckman>sakax: swap has nothing to do with storage other than the fact it uses a storage device.
05:15<valdyn>sakax: mostly you dont need to do anything different than with a regular harddisk
05:16<valdyn>sakax: if trim (as implemented in linux) even provides a benefit depends on the specific ssd
05:16<ompaul>wekalaner1: with bpi as it changes over time you will be pulling in new ones
05:16<ompaul>bpo that is
05:16<ompaul>wekalaner1: you are at the point when you /msg dpkg TIAS
05:17<heckman>what the heck is tias?
05:17<wekalaner1>try it and see :)
05:17<heckman>you kids and your ancronyms
05:17<ompaul>heckman: I'm on the wrong side of 50 :-P
05:17<ompaul>the down hill from here side
05:18<padski>wekalaner1, stable kernels don't change much. If I recall correctly, you can often load the same binay module against the new kernel and there is version numbering which will indicate when a rebuild is needed. If you get it all set up right then it is very smooth. depending on how critical your application is you may want to keep a very close eye on the details, but the work is pretty routine. Obviously well supported hardwar
05:18<padski>e is the easy option and depending on the details you may well be better off tracking a bdo kernel.
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05:18<ompaul>wekalaner1: as I said "the choice is yours"
05:18<sakax>valdyn, this is the ssd i will use
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05:19<ompaul>sakax: are you leaving a sata in there?
05:19<heckman>sakax: seems new enough that it will have TRIM support.
05:19<sakax>ompaul, yes, sata 2.5inch
05:19<wekalaner1>yeah, it's my choice but as i don't have experience with debian i cannot really assess what will be the better option with respect to low maintenace. As you are far more experienced than I am I'd like to get some oppinions form you :)
05:19<heckman>wekalaner1: use backports
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05:20<valdyn>sakax: you can be sure that that disk has trim support i think, but that does not say anything about trim being better than no trim
05:20<ompaul>sakax: use that for your swap :-)
05:20<heckman>Back on Debian 6 I ran backports on one of my systems because TRIM support wasn't in the stable kernel.
05:20<wekalaner1>can i install a backports kernel and freeze the kernel so that it doesn't update? or would that be a very bad idea?
05:20<heckman>valdyn: in what cases is trim not better for you?
05:20<valdyn>sakax: you can try google or you can also just not care
05:20<sakax>ompaul, it's a netbook, it will have to be used for all partitions
05:20<valdyn>heckman: this is not about me
05:20<padski>wekalaner1, you don't want security patches etc?
05:21<heckman>valdyn: you're avoiding the question.
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05:21<sakax>valdyn, i will google, first gathering some input from you guys to know the google direction :)
05:21<heckman>sakax: you should have trim enabled.
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05:22<sakax>heckman, ok, will do some reading
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05:22<heckman>sakax: trim tells the SSD that a specific block is now empty, and should be cleared.
05:22<heckman>Basically, it tells the SSD's controller to garbage collect that block.
05:23<sakax>ok thanks
05:23<wekalaner1>could anyone help me out getting the URLs of the packages I need to fetch for the backports kernel (it must be someone running wheezy with backports). all you'd need to do is run: aptitude -t wheezy-backports install linux-image-`uname -r|sed 's,[^-]*-[^-]*-,,'`
05:23<heckman>Unlike spinning platters of rust, when you attempt to write to an SSD the area *must* be empty before a write can happen.
05:23<wekalaner1>sorry, not finished
05:23<wekalaner1>ignore that last message
05:23<heckman>Without trim, the data you've deleted from your filesystem stays there. So when you try to write data, the controller needs to empty the block first, then write your data. This impacts write performance.
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05:24<sakax>heckman, makes sense, thanks
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05:25<wekalaner1>could anyone help me out getting the URLs of the packages I need to fetch for the backports kernel (it must be someone running wheezy with backports). all you'd need to do is run:
05:25<wekalaner1>apt-get -t wheezy-backports install --print-uris linux-image-`uname -r|sed 's,[^-]*-[^-]*-,,'`
05:25<wekalaner1>and then send the output as message to me. help would be greatly appreciated
05:25<heckman>Why can't you just add the bpo line to your sources.list file?
05:25<heckman>And then install kernel via apt?
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05:26<musca>heckman: he needs the kernel for his NIC i217
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05:26<heckman>Yes, I'm asking why he needs the URL of the packages.
05:27<heckman>Why can't he just let apt do the needful?
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05:27<musca>he needs to download on a different machine far way from a debian.
05:27<heckman>Oh, that would cause a problem. Hah
05:27<wekalaner1>thanks musca :)
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05:28<heckman>wekalaner1: what does uname -r|sed 's,[^-]*-[^-]*-,,' print?
05:28<wekalaner1>heckman: i found this in the web - it should give the latest kernel, not sure if it really does
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05:30<wekalaner1>i guess replacing it with "linux-image-3.11-0.bpo.2-amd64" should work, too
05:30<wekalaner1>(my manual search give me 3.11 as most recent version)
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05:35<wekalaner1>ok i found a simpler way using my usb ethernet card, which i had completely forgotten i have bought a while back
05:36<valdyn>heckman: see the "Shortcomings" in the wikipedia article about trim and for example. I did not find my original source but im done googling
05:37<greenit>hi, i have a problem with installing debian on an "asus pro61s", can anyone help me? When i boot the install-media i see the screen where i can choose what to install, after i chose something, the screen goes black and doesn't show anything anymore. If i edit the entry and add "acpi=off" it says that the cpu is not synchronous and kernelpanic.
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05:40<Eco>greenit : Load the default settings in your BIOS, or check asynchronous support in your BIOS.
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05:41<greenit>Eco, i found a way, i have to edit the boot-option to "nomodeset acpi=off", then it works... however, a bit strange for me
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05:47<Eco>greenit: ;)
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05:57<vimal>hi how r u?
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06:02<wekalaner1>is there a version of apt-get/aptitude with coloured output in command line? the default output is very hard to read…
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06:03<blubberdiblub>wekalaner1, you can use the TUI of aptitude, which is coloured if your terminal supports it
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06:04<wekalaner1>i'd prefer to use the proper command line
06:05<wekalaner1>i am sure there must be something like that out there
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06:11<valdyn>wekalaner1: maybe its very easy to read but you need the pracise more than colored output
06:12<adb> ** practice ?
06:12<musca>,info daptup
06:12<judd>Package daptup (admin, extra) in wheezy/i386: reporter of changes in list of available packages from repositories. Version:; Size: 28.7k; Installed: 258k; Homepage:; Screenshot:
06:13<valdyn>wekalaner1: see here:
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06:38<mc68040>and i'm freshly shaved :))
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06:38<mc68040>ups - sorry, wrong window
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07:16<wekalaner1>is there a way to rebuilt initram-fs when i am in the initramfs console (i thought about chrooting the root partition)
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07:31<wekalaner1>ok i guess i have broken my installation - does the normal installation dvd offer a live system?
07:31<wekalaner1>the initramfs console is not sufficient as it doesn't enable to access the web...
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07:32<blubberdiblub>wekalaner1, the normal install CDs/DVDs should have a rescue mode
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07:33<wekalaner1>that's what i just started but it appears that the rescue mode just runs the installer… (i have cancelled when i had to put in the hostname, similar as for normal installation)
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07:35<blubberdiblub>wekalaner1, i think that's normal:
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07:49<veindrain1>hey guys i am looking for a solid cups+samba printer sharing tutorial. If you used a particular tutorial and worked for you i would appreciate a link :) I have established local printing but windows printing doesn't work properly so i'm reviewing it from the ground up.
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08:03<valdyn>veindrain1: windows can print to cups, why samba?
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08:17<wekalaner1>what is the exact syntax to use the installation dvd in soruces.list as source?
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08:24<abrotman>wekalaner1: use apt-cdrom (baciup your current sources.list first)
08:24<abrotman>or man sources.list to learn how
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08:34<veindrain1>valdyn: You mean activate printer sharing directly from cups and discover this from windows?
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08:43<joe>Hi. I'm using Debian Jessie with Razor-qt, without KDE. I have kde-i10n-de installed and changed my default locale to german with "dpkg-reconfigure locales". Now my Qt/KDE apps appear in german, but the Qt file selector is still english. How can I change its locale? Do I need another package for it?
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08:46<valdyn>veindrain1: yes. However "printer sharing" really is always active. You might have to change who its shared to.
08:47<valdyn>veindrain1: im not sure windows can "discover" that cups printer, but you can just enter the URL
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08:48<valdyn>veindrain1: windows prints to a URL like this one "" for example
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08:49<valdyn>veindrain1: see your output for "netstat -plunt | grep cups": or ::1:631 show that its only shared to localhost
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08:51<valdyn>joe: not every program is localised
08:51<valdyn>joe: i dont know about razor-qt
08:51<joe>valdyn, I'm speaking about the common Qt file-selector
08:51<joe>valdyn, The normal open/save dialog common to all apps.
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08:52<valdyn>joe: was there a reboot after you changed the locale?
08:52<joe>valdyn, yes
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08:53<valdyn>joe: on what debian release?
08:54<joe>cat /etc/issue
08:54<joe>Debian GNU/Linux jessie/sid
08:55<valdyn>joe: maybe that package
08:56<valdyn>joe: i just searched for l10n and i18n packages
08:56<joe>valdyn, it's already installed
08:56<valdyn>joe: then i dont know - in sid localisation might very well be broken
08:57<joe>valdyn, yes thanks. I'm running testing (jessie), not sid
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08:57<joe>valdyn, ... which may be broken too of course
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08:59<kevin_>curious why debian has chosen gnome3, any idea
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09:01<abrotman>for what?
09:01<veindrain1>valdyn: somehow, the printer gets shared because my 2007 macbook prints fine on him, the problem is with windows. I don't have the setup here right now it's in the office that's why i was asking for tutorial i can't check it out now
09:01<veindrain1>just wanted to do my homework :)
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09:02<veindrain1>valdyn: oh and btw windows 7 and 8 can print on him but instead of the text to be printed, it prints some sort of test page
09:02<abrotman>kevin_: for what?
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09:04<kevin_>for why not staying with gnome2, or changing to kde, but gnome3
09:05<abrotman>kevin_: gnome2 is dead upstream.
09:05<abrotman>You mean as the "Desktop" task in the netinet?
09:05<kevin_>i tried kde lately, and found it is quite stable and usable
09:05<abrotman>so use KDE, nothing is stopping you
09:06<joe>kevin_, you can also try out MATE, Cinnamon and Razor-qt; these are traditional desktops. MATE is the direct successor of Gnome 2
09:06<musca>and most valueable, kevin begins with "k" not with "g"
09:06<abrotman>MATE isn't in wheezy
09:07<abrotman>neither is Cinnamon
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09:07<kevin_>yes, I know I can do that myself, just trying to understand their decision, not to judge, but to understand, there must be a reason, don't you agree
09:07<abrotman>and methods to install them on top of wheezy are not supported here
09:07<abrotman>kevin_: decision to do what?
09:07<valdyn>kevin_: debian has not "chosen" anything
09:08<kevin_>i mean it is the default DE, isn't it?
09:08<abrotman>not really, you can choose any you want
09:08<valdyn>kevin_: it isnt
09:08<abrotman>even using the netinst
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09:09<joe>abrotman, MATE developers provide a Debian repo, don't know about cinnamon
09:10<kevin_>no? if one downloads debian, after the installation, what is the default DE?
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09:10<valdyn>kevin_: probably no DE at all
09:10<abrotman>joe: still not supported
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09:11<abrotman>kevin_: depends which boxes you tick during install. When I do it, I have no DE after install, just CLI
09:11<valdyn>kevin_: debian has no leadership like that, most things are done because someone just does them
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09:11<kevin_>that's not what I got, if desktop environment has been chosen during the installation, it was gnome3 installed by default
09:11<joe>kevin_, since gnome 3 is what is provided upstream, it's natural to follow upstream and change from gnome 2 to gnome 3. Some people actually like gnome 3, so I think it's ok like that.
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09:12<abrotman>kevin_: you can change that
09:12*abrotman likes gnome3, thinks it's a good DE
09:12<kevin_>of course for server, it won't matter, I am talking about desktop.
09:12<valdyn>kevin_: you are right, but thats not really due to some official decision as far as i can tell
09:12<joe>I have however read somewhere, the new default will be XFCE
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09:13<geer>würde gerne wheezy ohne desktop nur mit xorg installieren, welcher weg ist am sinnvollsten, serverinstallation und dann nur die einzelnen pakete oder lieber gnome deaktivieren ?
09:13<abrotman>geer: english please
09:13<abrotman>joe: that's the going rumor, not that it matters really
09:13<valdyn>geer: "apt-get install xorg" after you are done installing
09:13<joe>geer, german channe is
09:13<geer>ok thx
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09:17<kevin_>so it's up to the taste of someone who works on the DE integration, or because it was gnome 2, so by inertia, gnome3 became the choice.?
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09:18<joe>kevin_, yes. Somwhere in the past, XCE was chosen as the default simply because gnome didn't fit on the CD
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09:20<abrotman>in the past?
09:21<joe>Yes it was in the past, changed to gnome afterwards
09:21<joe>In my opinion, there should be no default at all, I think Debian is a distribution for users who know what they want and will install their preferred applications anyway. For users who want to just install some default setup maybe something like openSUSE would be an easier choice
09:21<abrotman>joe: uh, no
09:22<abrotman>you're confused
09:22<joe>abrotman, about XFCE or what?
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09:22<abrotman>many things
09:22<joe>Maybe :)
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09:22<joe>I'm sorry if I remember the XFCE story wrongly
09:22<abrotman>but it's really not that important to a knowledgable user
09:23<kevin_>don't know how debian handles this, but being default will certainly get more resource, as an outcome, be more stable
09:23<abrotman>kevin_: Perhaps, but popular applications are still popular
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09:28<kevin_>that's probably true, still think the change between gnome2 and 3 is too radical
09:28<kevin_>but anyway, luckily it is linux, we have choices
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10:45<mral3n> Hi, I was wondering if anyone knew how I could use the default window theme or change to it on xubuntu 13.10. I have compiz fusion installed which uses GTK.. i tried a few things like some editors, any suggestions?
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10:46<planetmaker>mral3n, this is debian, not ?ubuntu channel
10:47<mral3n>planetmaker, true just figured since it's debian based I could get some help, sorry.
10:47<wompa>!tell mral3n about xubuntu
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11:17<musca>hello andres_
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11:20<andres_>hello musca
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11:24<comion>how many times can a different operating system be loaded to a computer? I have a laptop with fedora on it and i want to wipe it and load debian, but over its life its had I think 3 OSes already and im worried about changing it so much
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11:24<abrotman>comion: the hardware doesn't care
11:24<comion>abrotman, oh really?
11:24<comion>so would it have any effect?
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11:25<comion>any negative effect i should say?
11:25<abrotman>none that i've ever seen
11:25<comion>ok, thx much
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11:29<andres_>hello grandie
11:29<joe>comion, I have a computer with an Athlon XP 3000+ still running. I have reinstalled operating systems on it maybe 2 times per year
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11:30<comion>joe thats good to know, its always fun to try out new OSes
11:30<joe>It has seen several Linux distributions, BeOS, FreeBSD, Windows. Don't know how many reinstalls that have been#
11:31<comion>how did you like BeOS?
11:31<comion>was it Haiku?
11:31<abrotman>comion: Do you have a question related to Debian?
11:32<joe>Of course the IO operations may help to make the hard disk older sooner. But a normal hard drive should take that for several years without problems
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11:33<grandie>hi andres_
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11:35<andres_>and my first time in #debian
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11:37<grandie>i'm new here also, just hanging in the background learning
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11:38<planetmaker>comion, that will really not be a problem for the lifetime of your HDD
11:38<planetmaker>Normal HDD lifetime is measured by hours of operation. Not by rewrites
11:39<planetmaker>If you have an SSD things are slightly different, but the occasional re-install of an OS won't influence the wear much either. More things like temporary files which constantly change
11:39<planetmaker>but there the internal SSD software takes precautions to distribute wear
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11:40<andres_>I also grandie
11:40<planetmaker>comion, have you tried though to stick to one 'base' OS and try all others in a VM or chroot environment?
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11:41<comion>planetmaker, im not familiar with how to set up a VM sadly,
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11:41<comion>been meaning to look into it, but work has been taking up most of my time
11:41<planetmaker>comion, the easiest way, IMHO, on a desktop: install virtualbox
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11:42<planetmaker>in each VM you create there you can install whatever you want, just the normal way you'd always do that also outside it
11:43<planetmaker>(I'm assuming desktop usage here)
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11:46<comion>planetmaker is the interface for VM pretty intuitive?
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12:00<joe>What package is needed for localization of the GTK file selector?
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12:05<planetmaker>comion, I'd say 'yes'
12:05<planetmaker>it's just an apt-get install virtualbox away ;)
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12:05<comion>planetmaker, haha, ok
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12:37<onur>hey guys. what happened to ffmpeg in sid?
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12:39<olasd>onur: it was replaced by libav
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12:40<darokthar>Could somebody explain to me why i don't need ia32-lib in jessie? I simply forced teamviewer to install and it ran.
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12:40<valdyn>darokthar: is multiarch enabled?
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12:41<darokthar>I tried to install ia32-lib but the packet could not be found.
12:41<valdyn>darokthar: so you probabaly have libc6:i386 and more installed
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12:42<darokthar>Ok, thus if a program asks for 32bit libraries which are from older branches i simply can force them to install and it should run.
12:42<valdyn>darokthar: nope
12:43<onur>olasd: I don't get it. What is /usr/bin/ffmpeg replacement now?
12:43<valdyn>darokthar: more like "might run"
12:43<darokthar>Ok. Might run. Still i'll have to force them and try.
12:45<valdyn>darokthar: multiarch just sais that you can install i386 versions of packages, doesnt mean you really have installed any one package
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12:47<olasd>onur: avconv (in the libav-tools package)
12:48<darokthar>Ok i hope i don't have to install any 32bit packages in the near future then.
12:48<dpkg>FFmpeg is a complete, cross-platform solution to record, convert and stream audio and video. The Debian ffmpeg package contains a multimedia player (ffplay), server (ffserver) and encoder (ffmpeg). Use "ffmpeg -formats" to list supported transcoding formats for ffmpeg's -target option. #ffmpeg on See also <libav>.
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12:49<dpkg>Libav is a complete, cross-platform solution to record, convert and stream audio and video. Libav is a fork of <FFmpeg> and replaces it in Debian as of the 7.x "Wheezy" release. Multithreaded decoding is available since libav 4:0.7~rc1-1 (bug #575600); MP3 encoding support is available since libav 4:0.7.1-2 (bug #587904). #libav on
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12:56<onur>ahh ok I got it. It would be much easier if libav-tools provide avconv or avprobe
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13:06<xperement>i have an amd e1-2100 APU
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13:06<xperement>what xorg driver should i use with it?
13:06<xperement>in debian 7.2
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13:07<SamB>hoo boy, kcachegrind is whining about my /home/naesten/.local/share/applications/menu-xdg/
13:07<sney>xperement: do you care about graphics performance?
13:08<SamB>oh, wait, actually that's kbuildsycoca4 actually
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13:08<SamB>I was wondering WTH kcachegrind cared about the menu entries ...
13:08<Guest8536>hey ho
13:08<xperement>sney, if it possible
13:08<SamB>(though maybe they're used for file associations too?)
13:08<Guest8536>spricht hier jemand deutsch? :D
13:09<xperement>i what to use flashplugin and edit photos
13:09<sney>xperement: your options are 'radeon' which you already have, it needs the package firmware-linux-nonfree to have all features enabled, and it's enough for videos and some games like minecraft
13:09<SamB>hmm, it looks like it's mostly missing trailing semicolons on the Categories field
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13:10<xperement>sney, thanks
13:10<sney>xperement: fglrx-driver is your other option, it's the proprietary driver from amd, I'm not sure if the debian packaged version works with the apu graphics
13:10*SamB wonders why kcachegrind doesn't seem to want to look at cachegrind output ...
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13:12<SamB>oh, it's because I'm not looking at $PWD at all
13:13<SamB>anyone know how to navigate to $PWD in the KDE file picker?
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13:13<sney>SamB: #debian-kde is probably your best bet for that answer. I use kde but not very deeply
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13:16<xperement>sney, i am trying fglrx and should i edit xorg.conf after installation?
13:16<xperement>ah sorry
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13:16<xperement>installation say what to do
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13:20<xperement>sney, aticonfig: no supported adapters detected, should i reboot my system before?
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13:21<sney>yes, it might need to load from boot without radeon also loaded. but again I can't guarantee that driver supports your apu
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13:24<Eco>Xorg -configure
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13:26<sney>Eco: that puts a lot of crap in the config that should be auto detected
13:26<sney>better to just make small snippets for only the stuff you need, like a driver statement
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13:43<greenit>hi, i have a problem: i installed win7, then win8 followed by debian on a notebook. i replaced win8 with debian, but now grub can't find win7 anymore. Can anyone help me to get win7 into the grub-menu?
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13:49<abrotman>is os-prober installed?
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13:50<greenit>nope, i'll try it
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13:53<greenit>abrotman, oh, os-prober is already installed
13:54<babilen>greenit: Could you run "update-grub2" and show us the output?
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13:59<greenit>babilen, well, it's on another pc, but it says "creating grub.cfg..." followed by the one kernel i have and a memtest-entry
14:00<sney>if you run os-prober on its own does it find the win7 loader
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14:01<greenit>sney, do i have to give os-prober any param? it doesn't show anything
14:02<sney>it might need to be run as root, but it doesn't take any arguments iirc
14:02<sney>is this an efi or bios boot setup?
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14:02<greenit>sney, bios afaik (it's the notebook of a friend, but it has the bios-interface)
14:03<greenit>oh, i see, os-prober finds the win8-partition on my notebook, but it doesn't show anything on the other notebook :/
14:03<sney>ok, efi can be a real nuisance somehow
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14:05<sney>if you do 'fdisk -l' do you see your windows partition?
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14:12<greenit>sney, yes
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14:14<greenit>sney, well... i repaired mbr to see if i can boot in windows... seems like i deleted the bootloader (which was on a separate partition o.O), so well, i'll just reinstall windows then, thx for your help :)
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14:16<greenit>erm... do i reinstall grub with "sudo grub-install /dev/sda"?
14:17<valdyn>greenit: you should use "dpkg-reconfigure grub-pc" for that
14:18<babilen>dpkg: tell greenit -about fixmbr
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14:19<doubledutch>For those looking to fdisk -l, lsblk is another useful utility.
14:19<sney>I usually say fdisk because then if the disk is gpt we find out right away
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14:26<greenit>babilen, thx, worked :)
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14:29<nrap>I try to get Debian over, is that company still operating?
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14:30<abrotman>you can't download it?
14:30<nrap>I ordered the DVD's
14:30<nrap>and a book
14:30<nrap>no tracking #, phone is not working,
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14:31<abrotman>Why are you asking us?
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14:31<nrap>because I got the link to that company from the debian website, so I thought you know something
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15:02<erfg87q4ght8o7y> YOU MAY BE WATCHED
15:02<erfg87q4ght8o7y> YOU MAY BE WATCHED
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15:06<Rydekull>that must be one of the more stupid things to flood. of course you're watched, that's the point. Its irc
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15:10<ompaul>Rydekull: hehe
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15:34<gweaver_>Anybody here?
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15:35<mtn>gweaver_: do you have a support question?
15:35<planetmaker>yes... but ^
15:35<gweaver_>So I have a question.
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15:35<gweaver_>But yes, it is basically a support question.
15:36<mtn>gweaver_: a debian support question? if so, fire away
15:36<mtn>gweaver_: don't be shy ;)
15:36<gweaver_>I created a new group and added a user to it.
15:37<gweaver_>When I run the command 'groups <username>' as root the group is listed in the list of groups that <username> is in.
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15:38<gweaver_>But when I run the groups command as the user it doesn't say that the user is part of the group that I added them too.
15:39<zykotick9>gweaver_: have you logged out/back in as that user?
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15:39<gweaver_>My new group is called 'webadmin'
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15:40<gweaver_>If as root, when I run the command 'groups weaver' I get:
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15:40<gweaver_>weaver : weaver cdrom floppy audio dip video plugdev scanner bluetooth netdev webadmin
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15:41<gweaver_>But when I run the 'groups' command as user weaver I get:
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15:41<xperement>i only can use vesa driver with my laptop
15:41<xperement>is it normal?
15:41<gweaver_>weaver cdrom floppy audio dip video plugdev scanner bluetooth netdev
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15:42<gweaver_>zykotick9: I haven't logged out and then back in as that user, let me try that.
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15:46<gweaver_>zykotick9: I logged back in, webadmin is on the list of groups for the user. Thanks!
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15:46<zykotick9>gweaver_: glad to help
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15:49<gweaver_>So everytime if a user wants to be added to a group they need to log out? What if they're in the middle of something, and need a privlege of a certain group? So they call the sysadmin to get added to the group only to have the sysadmin tell them to log out. So they have to drop everything, close every window they have open and then log back in?
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15:49<valdyn>gweaver_: yes
15:49<ectospasm>gweaver_: use newgrp
15:49<sney>yeh newgrp groupname
15:50<sney>only works per-terminal session afaict but it works in the interim
15:51<ectospasm>yeah, that's true... if they need to be in a certain group to launch a GUI app, they'll need to temporarily launch it from the newgrp shell
15:51<ectospasm>or, the shell that runs newgrp
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15:53<gweaver_>So use newgrp if it's immediate and usermod if it's not.
15:54<sney>newgrp doesn't add the user to the group, it just gives them a new shell for the group that they were added to
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15:54<sney>so you still have to use adduser/usermod to add them to the group
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15:54<ecto>for real
15:55<ecto>there are no other channels on this server?
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15:55<sney>of course there are
15:55<sney>check /list
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16:06<babilen>ecto: "/msg chanserv help list"
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16:17<ectospasm>babilen: thanks
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16:53<liquid>Hello i was wondering if anyone may happen to know if there are any aplications for debian wheezy that would help increase battery life for a laptop i have installed an app called laptop mode tool
16:53<liquid>is there anything that may be of anymore help for me with that
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16:56<ecto>hmm , i was wondering the same thing
16:56<liquid>ecto a program called laptop-mode-tools helps alot but just wondering if there is anything else that may help much more
16:57<liquid>to use with that one
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16:57<liquid>abrotman ill have to look into that thank you
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16:58<liquid>abrotman do you know how powertop works i know laptop-mode-tool works by spenning down the hard drive
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16:58<devil>liquid: read on it, it does a lot of things
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16:58<liquid>devil will do
16:59<liquid>and for my last question when i am using my terminal to install or uninstall somthing it is wanting to go and remove this huge list of software in my computer that i dont want it to remove is there a way to stop that
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17:00<liquid>if i let it remove it ill have nothing much left
17:00<devil>liquid: are you running testing or unstable?
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17:00<devil>liquid: there should not be removals in stable. pastebin the output
17:01<devil>well, there could be with meta packages
17:01<liquid>when i downloaded the ISO file i clicked the link stable and downloaded the amd64
17:01<devil>if you remove essential parts of gnome or another DE
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17:02<devil>what are you trying to remove?
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17:02<abrotman>sources.list might help too
17:02<liquid>just anything not one thing that makes it do it anything i try to remove or install makes it happen
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17:02<devil>liquid: pastebin the output of one of those tries
17:02<devil>so we have facts
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17:03<devil>and also pastebin the output of: apt-cache policy
17:04<liquid>just so i dont forget latter thanks for the help
17:04<liquid>got more than one box booting it up
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17:05<liquid>what is the url for the paste site i know it dont need to be pasted in here
17:05<liquid> ????
17:05<nadir>install pastebinit
17:06<liquid>nadir never heard of it
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17:06<nadir>liquid: for me it is very useful to quickly paste info (i use tor, so using the ... too late ...)
17:08<devil>nadir: are you saying you are slow? :P
17:08<nadir>ha. Well: he will run in pastebinit when he will need it
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18:05<administrator>hi, what is the estimated size of minimal Debian stable install without any tasks, desktop environments, just raw install?
18:06<administrator>for x86_64
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18:07<abrotman>500MB maybe? try it in a VM and find out
18:08<administrator>is it 580MB like the manual says?
18:08<themill>"disk space available" and "size of install
18:08<themill>" are different things
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18:10<administrator>ok thanks, but at least I know it won't take >1GB
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18:15<xperement>how to enable default gnome-shell mode
18:15<xperement>i have an replacement like gnome2 with gnome3 theme
18:17<abrotman>what's your video card?
18:17<xperement>00:01.0 VGA compatible controller: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] nee ATI Device 9834
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18:19<xperement>but it seems i dont have a drivers to it
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18:23<xperement>what should i do?
18:25<xperement>how to pick up some info about my X mode?
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18:29<devil>xperement: wiki.debian.amd fpr proprietary drivers
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18:30<xperement>devil, fglrx does not work
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18:31<devil>xperement: it should work in stable. or your card is too new for your kernel but I know nothing on amd cards
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18:34<xperement>why i cant find anything about e1?
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18:44<devil>xperement: what is e1?
18:45<xperement>devil, it is amd e1-2100 APU
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18:46<ecto>i cant get dvd's to play in kali linux. i've lready installed libdvdcss, still comes up with an error message about nautulus
18:47<xperement>ecto, try vlc
18:47<ecto>i did
18:47<ecto>File reading failed:
18:47<ecto>VLC could not open the file "/root/x-nautilus-desktop:/DEADWOOD_S2D1.volume". (No such file or directory)
18:47<ecto>Your input can't be opened:
18:47<ecto>VLC is unable to open the MRL 'file:///root/x-nautilus-desktop%3A/DEADWOOD_S2D1.volume'. Check the log for details.
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18:47<devil>ecto: is the error message secret?
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19:18<nathan>I need help: after a fresh install of Debian Wheezy, my audio is not working.
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19:20<devil>nathan: check alsamixer for mute
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19:20<nathan>What is alsamixer?
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19:21<devil>a tool to control your audio device
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19:42<dharc>wow, really will exist the Debian GNU/Plan 9? o.O
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21:52<simNIX>long time back I utilized ppp to dail in - then I utilized a program that would only bring that ppp interface up if there was trafic out that needed it - I wonder if there is a simular tool that can up/down my wired nic facing the Internet ? - That way nic is dow fully when I dont need it - for instance for backup server that conects out to collect backups, once done is fully ofline till next run, or with that could do same for lan so that if
21:52<simNIX> I dont need outbound there's a air-gap between my nets and the world - I can script the up/down, but not sure on what can poll and start that script bit when needed
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22:03<stderr_dk>simNIX: You could call "ifup eth0" before your backup script and "ifdown eth0" after.
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22:05<simNIX>agreed but looking for auto detection and do it if trafic
22:05<simNIX>for instance to put in fron of lan section
22:05<stderr_dk>If the interface is down, there won't be any traffic, will there?
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22:07<simNIX>in this to simple example you are correct; but would liek to work towards setup with one border router, few routers behind that, each for one net - one of those nets wil be my lan - so then if I try to surf or send mail it goes up and down again after making my lan and other nets fully secure from outside is my thinking
22:07<simNIX>one step up from sneakernet simply put
22:08<ckosloff> I am having trouble updating on my local LAMP server, update.php keeps asking me to connect via ftp, I have not configured that yet, how do that?
22:08<Guest8578>what the heck is update.php
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22:09*themill assumes some hideous joomla or similar autoupgraderthingy
22:10<stderr_dk>simNIX: I'm not sure how ppp detects traffic when the interface is down.
22:10<ckosloff>SamB; it is actually authorize.php, a Drupal script, what is need to know is how to configure ftp in local server
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22:10<SamB>maybe it has the interface in some kind of half-down state?
22:10<simNIX>same prob; alsready looked in ppp howto but thats more howto setup server/cleint
22:10<SamB>ckosloff: I don't think you want FTP
22:11<stderr_dk>SamB: You mean up, but no IP?
22:11<SamB>stderr_dk: dunno
22:11<SamB>up enough to be routed to, I guess ...
22:11<simNIX>Im a bit suprised not more pople do this / wanted this; if you sleep 8 ohours and pc is idle do you want it open for tampering ? - yup bit in tin foiled hat ground but I think viable
22:11<stderr_dk>Yeah, but then it's all the way up, right?
22:13<simNIX>when I dialed in long time back ppp was fully down, exept when trafic needed it and then brought it auto up shiftly
22:13<simNIX>and back down on silence - and was very light
22:13<simNIX>but how ?
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22:13<Prokofiev>hello, would anyone happen to know anything about military cac card readers? O2Micro SmartCardBus Reader V1.0? I don't know how to load the module for the smart card reader, which might be my problem.
22:14<stderr_dk>Maybe you could have a rule in iptables that logs packets with an external destination IP. And then have something that watches the log file for those events. When there's traffic, open the firewall... But that sounds like something that could very easily break...
22:14<SamB>that would lose the first packet ...
22:14<SamB>(at minimum)
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22:15<stderr_dk>SamB: Exactly... VERY easy breakable...
22:15<SamB> seems relevant
22:16<SamB>something to do with loopback, it seems?
22:16<simNIX>good pointer tnx - sadely c code is for me still a thing to lear
22:16<stderr_dk>fctab looks like black magic to me... :-)
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22:21<fvbarn>Is this kind-of channel open-ended 'like' (how do i do this?).
22:21<simNIX>but ground for further googling here - apreciated thinking along
22:21<fvbarn>sorry 'channel kind-of'
22:24-!-gweaver_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:24<stderr_dk>fvbarn: Are you asking if you can ask a question?
22:24<fvbarn>how do you up grade a distro without complications?
22:24-!-piper [] has joined #debian
22:24<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on See <smart questions><errors>.
22:25<SamB>stderr_dk: seems to have the right filename and references a relevant RFC
22:26<stderr_dk>Oh, that's what it was... Thanks.
22:27<fvbarn>I want to upgrade from squeeze to wheezy without problems and can find no relevent information on the net.
22:27<abrotman>dpkg: tell fvbarn about squeeze->wheezyt
22:27<abrotman>dpkg: tell fvbarn about squeeze->wheezy
22:27<stderr_dk>SamB: Where have I seen those numbers before? :-)
22:28<SamB>scroll down and you'll be like "where did I see this generator before"
22:28<fvbarn>spam useless etc.
22:28<fvbarn>thx dpkg
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22:29<abrotman>read what the bot gave you for starters, ask if you have more questions
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22:30<abrotman>dpkg: tell fvbarn about squeeze->wheezy
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22:32<fvbarn>I read infos and howtos but.... it's finding specifics. I can't mess a system(take chamces)
22:33<sney>fvbarn, debian is designed to be able to upgrade from one stable release to the next. is there some reason you're worried about it?
22:33<SamB>!release notes
22:33<dpkg>Release notes for Debian 7 "Wheezy" are at . See also <squeeze->wheezy>, <install guide>.
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22:34<SamB>fvbarn: if you're worried, you could read those?
22:34<SamB>they should explain most everything
22:34<TimeSeeker>May I ask if anyone knows if Debian currently supports the AMD 760k or A10 6800K Richlands successfully? I have seen mixed reports online...
22:34<fvbarn>umm (sorry) but, usually things are 'murphys law'
22:34<sney>the only things that tend to jam people up from oldstable to stable are things like running the upgrade from inside an X session, or third party software or stuff like that
22:35<sney>if you follow the instructions and don't skip any steps, it'll be fine
22:35<SamB>sney: I expect that's mostly an issue if you're running the upgrade under an X server that's running on that system?
22:35<fvbarn>i guess i'm asking for the how-to
22:36<sney>SamB, well, yeah. an X session on the system that's about to replace all things having to do with X
22:36<sney>TimeSeeker, new hardware can be touch and go, but it mostly comes down to kernel and/or xorg support, so check your minimum versions for those and you'll have your answer.
22:37<fvbarn>I appreciate the feed-back...
22:37<Prokofiev>I have a problem with what I believe to be a pcmcia Smart Card Reader. I'm running Debian version jessie/sid. When I execute the lspcmcia -a command I get the following output...Socket 1 Device 0: [-- No Driver --] (Bus ID: 1.0)
22:37<SamB>fvbarn: I think the release notes are supposed to explain how to upgrade to that release from the preceding one
22:37<SamB>Prokofiev: huh
22:38<SamB>that's remarkably uninformative compared to lspci and lsusb
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22:38<Prokofiev>SamB: Okay, Can you help me?
22:38<SamB>I don't know anything about pcmcia
22:39<fvbarn>well ive used thus stuff faraday and nothing is 100%
22:39<stderr_dk>simNIX: So anyway... I don't have any good ideas right now on how to solve your problem. It's easier for PPP since that interface isn't connected to any real hardware all the time. It can just listen to all the packets it receives from the kernel and decide if it want to connect to the hardware or not.
22:40<stderr_dk>It might be possible to do something similar with something that pretends to be a normal network interface...
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22:42<fvbarn>ty debian!
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22:42<stderr_dk>simNIX: If you don't find another solution during the next week or so, I might try to hack something together a week from now when I got a little more time.
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22:42<stderr_dk>But right now, I'm off to bed...
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22:42<simNIX>great offernig - realy apreciated
22:43<simNIX>ill let here know if I find a way and inlcude your nik in that line
22:43<Prokofiev>SamB: Thanks, you're the best!
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22:47<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on See <smart questions><errors>.
22:47<fvbarn>kinski 'passwords and alcohol' (the band 'kinski')
22:48<Prokofiev>what does "See <smart questions><erros>" mean?
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22:49<fvbarn>how can you get louder volume in debian?
22:49<themill>turn it up to eleven
22:51<themill>fvbarn: you can run alsamixer from the command line or use some gui mixer control for whatever graphical environment you're using
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22:53<TimeSeeker>I have not been able to find a concrete document showing support....after several days ....however, there have been claims of functional units online at some of the retailer sites and one web site....I was wondering if anyone here had direct experience with the newer AMD's .
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22:56<fvbarn>less | more
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23:10<SamB>wow, pppd is in K&R C ...
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---Logclosed Mon Dec 09 00:00:14 2013