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#debian IRC Logs for 2013-12-31

---Logopened Tue Dec 31 00:00:04 2013
---Daychanged Tue Dec 31 2013
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01:10<Neal>t/close
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01:14<vijayendra>is this channel for problem solving?
01:15<apm1>yes
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01:15<vijayendra>if not then please suggest channel where i can get solution for the problem i am having.
01:16<apm1>state your problem
01:16<SamB>what kind of problem?
01:16<vijayendra>thank you
01:16<SamB>is it a problem with a system running Debian?
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01:16<vijayendra>yes problem is with system running debian
01:16<vijayendra>let me describe...
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01:18<vijayendra>i am running wheezy with xfce. i play music with headphones connected; but my speakers and headphones both play sound.
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01:21<vijayendra>my sound card is HDA intel PCH...
01:23<vijayendra>any solutions?
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01:26<vijayendra>nothing?
01:28<vijayendra>it was working fine in windows!
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01:35<vijayendra>:(
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01:36<BillHarris>I just finished updating a Squeeze amd64 system to Wheezy. I have 3 partitions: /, /boot, and /home. / used to contain about 11 GiB, and now after the upgrade contains about 17 GiB. Does that seem correct? Does it have anything to do with multiarch? Is there something I should do (besides resize the partition)?
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01:40<chealer>BillHarris: I don't see much reason to worry so far. APT's package archives (cache) may be contributing a fair bit.
01:41<BillHarris>chealer: the only reason I see to worry is that I set up / with 22 GiB when I first configured the system, and I only have 3.7 GiB available (4.8 GiB free) now. I don't want to run out. :-)
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01:43<BillHarris>I didn't know if `aptitude clean` or `aptitude autoclean` would be my friend.
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01:48<chealer>BillHarris: hehe. yes, either may help
01:48<BillHarris>chealer: "hehe"??
01:50<chealer>BillHarris: the perspective of running out of storage is a good reason to worry.
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01:51<chealer>I had that with Debian Live this morning
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01:51<chealer>the rootfs was 256 MB on one old machine I was exploring or 2
01:52<BillHarris>chealer: Is there any real risk with autoclean or clean? Autoclean seems safe enough if a bit modest in scope. Clean seems more aggressive, but I'm not sure if I need any of that stuff.
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01:53<chealer>the aufs filesystem's size varies depending on factors mysterious to me, though clearly spec-dependent
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01:54<chealer>BillHarris: as long as you have another Internet connection and another machine, there's no "real risk".
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01:59<BillHarris>chealer: :-) I tried autoclean and only saved about 150 MiB.
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02:13<chealer>BillHarris: it saves me way more, but I track testing. autoclean won't help with the really newly used space, if that wasn't clear. you'll have to wait until jessie for big gains (although it may be too late then if I believe the picture you present)
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02:21<BillHarris>chealer: I just ran clean, and I now have over 7 GiB available. That's enough for me for tonight. Thanks for the advice. (And I tried testing in the guise of Mint for a while, but I missed the stability of stable. Perhaps it was just my luck or my skill.)
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03:57<rebli>how can I obtain the list of packages without reverse depends?
04:00-!-mode/#debian [+l 609] by debhelper
04:00<mgv>rebli: aptitude search "?not(~R.*)"
04:01<mgv>or aptitude search "?not(~R.*)~i" if you want the list of installed packages without reverse depends
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04:07<rebli>did aptitude use only /var/lib/dpkg/status? is it possible to use another status file? (I want to compare two installations done on separate partitions)
04:08<mgv>rebli: you can chroot to the other partition and run the aptitude installed there
04:08<ompaul>did you want to read the /var/cache/apt/ logs?
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04:10<rebli>no experience with chroot, I'd prefer only mount the other partition,...
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05:05<Ophidian>any suggestion on a debian quick course ? started a couple of weeks ago with a home server on deb7 CLI but it seems that i lack a little basics :o
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05:08<ompaul>Ophidian: start by looking at the debian administrators handbook - you can get the pdf or dead tree format -
05:09<rebli>how can I compare 2 versions number in the debian format? is there anything like "versions' distance"?
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05:11<ompaul>rebli: please rephrase that question an this time explain what you have and what you are trying to do
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05:16<rebli>let's suppose the version of a package is major.minor.release; I want to know if the installed version and the available version differ only in major and minor, I can define a metric: major*10^6+minor*10^3+release, but the versioning ssytem is more complicated, and maybe there is some tool
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05:18<ompaul>apt-cache policy foo
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05:23<Ophidian>ompaul, is the handbook newbie-friendly ? :)
05:23<snogglethorpe>anyone know of a way to get oneko to pass-through mouse-clicks...? the only thing I dont' like about it is that it has a tendency to interfere and eat clicks occassionally (kinda like a real cat I suppose... ><)
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05:25<ompaul>Ophidian: it assumes nothing other than the ability to read.
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05:26<ompaul>Ophidian: oh, and understand what you read. ;-)
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05:29<Ophidian>ompaul, rofl ... big book (498p.) :/ better start reading
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05:42<Elvano>I just re-reinstalled debian on my laptop. Funny thing is my system now gets really hot. Yesterday it did overheat entirely. I have my old installation still on another partition, and it doesn't seem to heat my system at all.
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05:43<Elvano>I noticed another thing during the installation as well. It jumps straight from the mirror selection to the grub installation. I'm pretty sure there was some stuff in between...
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06:00<musca>Elvano: there is powertop
06:00<musca>!powertop
06:00<dpkg>PowerTOP is a tool for finding the software component(s) making your laptop use more power than necessary, while idle. http://01.org/powertop/ #powertop on irc.oftc.net. See also <power saving>.
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06:02<Elvano>Thanks, musca, I'll check that out. But it's weird since my old installation(s) used the same image and didn't have this problem =x
06:02<musca>Elvano: do you use gnome3 with 3D acceleration?
06:02<musca>ah, i see, same image.
06:03<Elvano>I do use gnome3 with acc, yes.
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06:04<musca>hmm, it might be the graphics that needs some tricks for cooling down.
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06:04<musca>Elvano: what vga card and what driver are you using?
06:04<Elvano>Not unlikely. They equip laptop with the most unsuitable graphic cards nowadays
06:05<SynrG>Elvano: even though it's likely the power management is at fault, ideally a laptop shouldn't overheat. if you haven't cleaned your fan recently, blast compressed air in there.
06:05<Elvano>I'm using Nvidia Geforce GT 640m with the default driver (nouveau, I guess)
06:06<Elvano>SynrG, my old installation isn't doing this. I left it running all night without any heating
06:06<SynrG>Elvano: hence "even though it's likely the power management is at fault"
06:06-!-[_aeris_] is now known as _aeris_
06:06<SynrG>i.e. power management should not be *required* to keep your system from overheating
06:06<SynrG>so even though it seems quite likely it is broken ...
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06:07<SynrG>the fact that your system is overheating may indicate it *also* needs a fan cleaning
06:07<SynrG>it's an often overlooked aspect of system maintenance
06:08<Elvano>How do I fix the power management thing, though?
06:08<SynrG>better driver?
06:08<DeepBlue>i ran "/bin/sh —version' to get 'bash: $: command not found'whereas i should have got the bash version according to 'Neil Matthew ,Richard Stones,beginning linux programming,Wiley Publishing, Inc.,3d ed.,pp20,2004'what's wrong?
06:08<SynrG>probably gfx card but i can't tell
06:09<towo`>Elvano, GT 640m sounds like optimus
06:09<Elvano>About that... whenever I try to install the nvidia driver as described in the debian wiki it asks me to remove over 200 packages
06:09<towo`>but sadly nouveau does not pergorm as the blob do
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06:10<SynrG>Elvano: we need details
06:10<SynrG>!bat
06:10<dpkg>In order for us to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, aptitude or dselect we need the following information: The complete output of your apt-get/aptitude/dselect run (including the command you used); the output from apt-cache policy PKG1 PKG2...; for the relevant packages and "apt-cache policy". Use http://paste.debian.net/ to provide us with this information. Also ask me about <localized errors>.
06:10<towo`>s/pergorm/ferform
06:10<towo`>grr
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06:13<Elvano>Man, you know that every time you try something it doesn't work. And when you have someone looking at it it just works fine?
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06:13<Elvano>Apperently for once it didn't ask me to remove packages o-o
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06:15<Elvano>I'll give installing the corresponding Nvidia driver a try then. I'll be back after rebooting
06:15<petn-randall>Elvano: Sounds like you're mixing repositories. Can you provide the info dpkg mentioned?
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06:19<Elvano>I really wasn't, petn-randall . It was a clean install with only wheezy contrib main and non-free. (and now a double clean install) Anyway, I'll first reboot now
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06:27<Elvano>That didn't went well at all =p Installing the driver (incl adding the conf.d and file) just gave me a black screen with a blinking cursor
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06:30<SynrG>Elvano: let's proceed from there with log output
06:30<SynrG>a copy of /var/log/Xorg.0.log from the failed X session
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06:33<Elvano>[ 19.467] (EE) Failed to initialize GLX extension (Compatible NVIDIA X driver not found) , SynrG . Or do you want theentire document?
06:33<SynrG>it seems likely you failed in one step.
06:34<SynrG>uname -r
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06:34<Elvano>3.2.0-4-amd64
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06:34<SynrG>dpkg -l linux-headers-$(uname -r)
06:34<dpkg>No packages found matching linux-headers-$(uname -r)
06:35<SynrG>and dpkg -l nvidia-kernel-dkms
06:35<SynrG>the dkms module cannot build without the headers
06:36<SynrG>and when you installed nvidia-kernel-dkms, it would complain bitterly if the headers were not installed ...
06:36<SynrG>perhaps you overlooked the error message?
06:37<Elvano>http://paste.debian.net/73469/
06:37<SynrG>if you have linux-image-amd64 installed, you should install linux-headers-amd64 (i.e. the metapackage that points at the current kernel package)
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06:37<SynrG>ok
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06:37<SynrG>quite possibly the kernel is too old to support the non-free nvidia driver for your new-ish card
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06:38<SynrG>dmesg |grep NVIDIA
06:39<Elvano>http://paste.debian.net/73471/
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06:40<SynrG>Elvano: we had better see the whole /var/log/Xorg.0.log then to understand what's going on
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06:43<Elvano>http://paste.debian.net/73472/ , SynrG
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06:45<Guest1937>can we look at my problem with Solydk sound. I am very new in this corner of the planet
06:45<SynrG>Elvano: so this looks like the intel driver is successfully loaded. i don't know how these hybrid cards should look in the log :/
06:46<SynrG>the EE for glx looks bad, though
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06:46<SynrG>could be that backports helps here
06:47<SynrG>oh
06:47<SynrG>,v bumblebee
06:47<judd>Package: bumblebee on i386 -- wheezy-backports: 3.2.1-4~bpo70+1; jessie: 3.2.1-4; sid: 3.2.1-4
06:47-!-fae [~fabrice@lec67-3-82-242-207-169.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
06:47<SynrG>Elvano: looks like without backports, there's no hybrid support anyway
06:48<Elvano>Ah, I guess I better add those then
06:48<SynrG>,v nvidia-kernel-dkms
06:48<judd>Package: nvidia-kernel-dkms on i386 -- squeeze/non-free: 195.36.31-6squeeze2; squeeze-backports/non-free: 295.59-1~bpo60+2; wheezy/non-free: 304.88-1+deb7u1; wheezy-backports/non-free: 319.72-1~bpo70+1; jessie/non-free: 319.76-1; sid/non-free: 319.76-1; experimental/non-free: 331.20-2
06:48<SynrG>,kernels
06:48<judd>Available kernel versions are: experimental: 3.12-trunk-686-pae (3.12.3-1~exp1); sid: 3.12-1-686-pae (3.12.6-2); jessie: 3.11-2-686-pae (3.11.10-1); wheezy-backports: 3.11-0.bpo.2-686-pae (3.11.10-1~bpo70+1); wheezy: 3.2.0-4-686-pae (3.2.51-1); squeeze-backports: 3.2.0-0.bpo.4-686-pae (3.2.51-1~bpo60+1); squeeze: 2.6.32-5-686 (2.6.32-48squeeze4)
06:49<SynrG>!bumblebee
06:49<dpkg>The Bumblebee project aims to provide support for the Nvidia Optimus GPU switching technology on Linux systems. GeForce 400M (4xxM) and later mobile GPU series are Optimus-enabled; if «lspci -nn | grep '\''[030[02]\]'» returns two lines, the laptop likely uses Optimus. Packaged for Debian in <testing> and <wheezy-backports>. http://wiki.debian.org/Bumblebee http://bumblebee-project.org/ #bumblebee on irc.freenode.net.
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06:50<SynrG>Elvano: i don't know if the kernel and/or nvidia-kernel-dkms backport are needed for your particular card ...
06:51<SynrG>Elvano: as i said, that error for glx didn't look encouraging. so that makes me think maybe your card does need a newer driver (which probably needs a newer kernel)
06:51<SynrG>and you wouldn't be able to do the switching without bumblebee, and that's important to address the problem you first reported (overheating)
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06:53<Elvano>I guess all I can do is try. But you've been a great help. Thanks, SynrG .
06:54-!-ribe [~ribe@c83-253-190-209.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:54<SynrG>yeah. good luck
06:54<Elvano>Is bumblebee the only package I should download from the backports?
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06:55<SynrG>Elvano: well, there are two distinct issues. one is that your Xorg.0.log complains it can't find a "suitable" nvidia driver. i presume this has nothing to do with bumblebee, but is related to nvidia-kernel-dkms not supporting your card ...
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06:55<SynrG>Elvano: so i think you need: new kernel + new nvidia dkms from backports to solve that.
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06:56<SynrG>Elvano: separate from that issue is that the card is a hybrid and needs to be able to switch from intel GPU to nvidia ... for that, you need bumblebee.
06:56<SynrG>again, from backports
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06:57<Elvano>But a new kernel means switching to jessie/sid?
06:57<SynrG>no
06:57<SynrG>as per version output above, there is a new kernel in wheezy-backports, and also new nvidia-kernel-dkms
06:58<SynrG>you would also need the matching headers.
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06:58<Elvano>Lol, and what package should I install for a new kernel?o-o
07:00<SynrG>technically, the 304.88 driver release in wheezy should support GT 640M. that's what upstream's doc says: http://www.nvidia.ca/object/linux-display-ia32-304.88-driver
07:00<SynrG>!tell elvano about bdo kernel
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07:02<SynrG>however, apparently in your case there are problems, and i can't explain them any way other than the driver lacks support for your hardware ...
07:02<SynrG>that might be the intel driver's fault, though. i don't know :/
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07:02<SynrG>as i said, i'm not really familiar with how this hybrid stuff is supposed to work.
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07:04<SynrG>Elvano: but as there is no intel driver backport ...
07:04*SynrG shrugs
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07:04<SynrG>still, there is hope, as a new kernel means updated support for the intel chipset in the kernel.
07:05<SynrG>Elvano: a conservative approach, then, would be to *just* install the backported kernel and see if that helps.
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07:06<Elvano>Doing that right now =p
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07:08<Elvano>rebooting and keeping my fingers crossed
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07:13<Elvano>Lol, this time no black screen, it just didn't load xserver or so (CLI)
07:14<Elvano>When I try to start it I get "FATAL: Module nvidia not found"
07:15<towo`>then you havn't installed the ddx part of the driver
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07:16<Elvano>I have really no idea what that is, towo o-o
07:16<towo`>apt-get how you have installed the driver
07:16<towo`>grr
07:16<towo`>Elvano, how you have installed the driver?
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07:17<Elvano>https://wiki.debian.org/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers#wheezy as described here for version 304.88
07:18<towo`>1st i would not use the 304-series driver for this card
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07:19<towo`>2nd the package nvidia-driver should install the needed packages
07:19<Elvano>Oh, I just checked the list of supported cards o-o
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07:21<SynrG>Elvano: sorry, by "just inatll the backported kernel" i did mean, of course, "and the headers"
07:21<SynrG>towo`: well, we are taking it slow, starting with the kernel.
07:21<SynrG>change one thing at a time, then we can see what helps
07:21<SynrG>Elvano: the kernel and headers always need to be upgraded together.
07:22<SynrG>it's not a dependency because not everyone needs headers.
07:22<Phuzzy>how would i go about extracting an ISo without mangling the filenames?
07:22<SynrG>but you do because of the nvidia driver
07:22<Phuzzy>they either get truncated or just lose charracters
07:23<SynrG>Phuzzy: using what tool?
07:24<SynrG>Phuzzy: are you mounting the iso or doing something else?
07:24<Phuzzy>right now its a 7z x ./iso
07:24<Phuzzy>i would prefer a CLI option here as it needs to end up in a script
07:25<sonfack>hi to every one
07:25<sonfack>i am a new comer
07:26-!-unick [~unick@0001bea6.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: unick]
07:26<sonfack>so what new here
07:26<SynrG>sonfack: do you have a debian support question?
07:27<sonfack>yes
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07:27<SynrG>then just ask
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07:27<sonfack>i am working on a Debian 6.04
07:28<sonfack>i have only two network interfaces i want to configure a DHCP server for three diferent networks
07:28<buff>sonfack, well 7.3 wheezy is new
07:28<sonfack>is it possible ?
07:28<SynrG>Phuzzy: does '7z l ./iso' show the filenames as "mangled"?
07:29<sonfack>i can't work with 7.3 because not stable
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07:29<SynrG>Phuzzy: if so, give a specific example of "mangling"
07:29-!-rueh [~rueh@dynamic-80-242-197-152.catv.glattnet.ch] has joined #debian
07:29<sonfack>and i am not sure off correcting the bugs
07:30<Phuzzy>SynrG: yup. all truncated to 64 chars and 3-char extensions
07:30<Phuzzy>... which completely breaks by debs
07:30<Phuzzy>*my udebs
07:30<sonfack>please what is mangling ?
07:30<SynrG>sonfack: unrelated to your issue. we're helping Phuzzy with a different problem.
07:31<Phuzzy>message-modules-3.5.0-23-generic-di_3.5.0-23.35~precise1_amd6.ude should be message-modules-3.5.0-23-generic-di_3.5.0-23.35~precise1_amd64.udeb
07:31<SynrG>sonfack: just ignore
07:31<Phuzzy>yes its an ubuntu isntall disk im working with, but im working on a debian desktop :)
07:31<SynrG>Phuzzy: and how is this a debian problem?
07:31<SynrG>ok :)
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07:32<Phuzzy>i guess the mount loop and copy option is still on the table, but im hoping to find a cli util to cut down on a few lines of bash scripts
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07:32<sonfack>please it is possible to configure a dhcp server to attribute addresses for two diferent networks ?
07:32<SynrG>Phuzzy: with Rock Ridge extensions, the filenames should be allowed to be much longer ...
07:32<SynrG>seems like a 7z problem
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07:33<SynrG>i would normally loop-mount the image and then just copy
07:34<SynrG>sonfack: it's possible. but this is nonsense: "i can't work with 7.3 because not stable"
07:34<SynrG>sonfack: 7.3 is the latest debian *stable* release
07:34<SynrG>sonfack: debian 6 is oldstable and very soon reaches EOL
07:34<SynrG>(end of life)
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07:36<SynrG>sonfack: did you just install debian 6.04? if so, i suggest you reinstall, this time using 7.3. otherwise, if it's an old 6.04 system, you should upgrade.
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07:36<SynrG>dpkg: squeeze->wheezy
07:36<dpkg>Read chapter 4 ("Upgrades from Debian 6.0") of the <release notes>. In /etc/apt/sources.list, change "squeeze" to "wheezy" (noting that <wheezy-backports> have changed on the mirrors). apt-get update && apt-get upgrade && apt-get dist-upgrade. See also <squeeze->wheezy failures>.
07:37<SynrG>and btw, it's 6.0.4, not 6.04. sorry, i copied your mistake
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07:38<SynrG>sonfack: it is important to upgrade because support for your release ends soon (i.e. no more security updates!) which puts you in a very bad situation.
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07:39<SynrG>also, by now we all use wheezy (debian 7) and are familiar with it. that's what we can help with the best here.
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07:55<Elvano>I got errors like these when trying too upgrade the headers: http://paste.debian.net/73479/ , SynrG
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07:56<SynrG>and that's *it*?
07:56<SynrG>special
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07:59<SynrG>Elvano: oh! i think it's trying to build 304 nvidia driver
07:59<SynrG>that is probably not going to ever work
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08:00<SynrG>Elvano: so i guess this forces you to also upgrade nvidia-kernel-dkms from backports
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08:11<dextro>hi
08:12<simNIX>greetings
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08:23<Katy>On my fresh wheezy install mplayer won't change volume. There's no error messages regarding sound. Changing volume via alsamixer works. A previous install on the same box worked ootb. Maybe I'm missing some packages. Any ideas where to start looking?
08:24<Natureshadow>dpkg -l pulseaudio
08:24<dpkg>No packages found matching pulseaudio
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08:24<Natureshadow>be silent, dpkg!
08:24<unknown00000>Hello. I've been writing some short stories lately and I would like to upload them something so they will be safe. I was thinking about encrypting them. Are there any 'backdoors' on gpg? Any suggestions? Thanks.
08:24<unknown00000>Also, how long should the key be?
08:24<Katy>Natureshadow: pulse is not installed
08:25<unknown00000>upload them somewhere*
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08:25<Natureshadow>Katy: then you are on the best way to fix it ;)!
08:26<Katy>Natureshadow: yeah, removing pulse was the first thing i did. :)
08:26<musca>!tell unknown00000 about gpg
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08:27<musca>!openpgp
08:27<dpkg>Best practices for OpenPGP keys are described at https://we.riseup.net/riseuplabs+paow/openpgp-best-practices
08:28<SynrG>!tell katy about alsa checklist
08:28<SynrG>Katy: run through those things, checking them. report back.
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08:31<Katy>SynrG: sounds working fine, with alsamixer i can control everything just fine, oss4 and pulse are not installed, I am on group audio.
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08:33<musca>Katy: does mplayer give you messages if you start it from terminal?
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08:34<Katy>musca: no error messages
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08:35<Katy>mplayer output: http://paste.debian.net/73490/
08:37<SynrG>Katy: maybe an input mapping issue? what keys are you using to change volume?
08:38<SynrG>Katy: in fact, since you say changing volume via alsamixer works, i strongly suspect an mplayer-specific input mapping problem
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08:38<Katy>SynrG: mplayer shows changing volume using 9,0.
08:38<SynrG>but volume doesn't actually change?
08:38<Katy>SynrG: Yes
08:39<SynrG>so perhaps mplayer is confused about which mixer device to use? do you have multiple soundcards?
08:39<Katy>no
08:39<SynrG>(trick question, hdmi & webcam appear as 'sound cards')
08:39<SynrG>still no?
08:39<Katy>no hdmi, no webcam
08:39<SynrG>ok, so /proc/asound/cards contains exactly one
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08:40<Katy>exact
08:40<Elvano>I'm still getting this error (linked by Nachtschatten)
08:40<Nachtschatten>http://paste.debian.net/73495/
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08:41<SynrG>Katy: perhaps the channel that mplayer modifies is not the right one? is the output of 'amixer' different for any channel after pressing a 9 or 0 key?
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08:41<knoppix_>hi
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08:42<Katy>SynrG: yes, mplayer changes pcm
08:42<Katy>SynrG: But only changing master has effect.
08:43<Guest1945>i want to know how install knoppix in my Hard Disk
08:43<Guest1945>i need to help
08:43<stderr_dk>!knoppix
08:43<dpkg>Knoppix is _not_ Debian. Seek Knoppix help in freenode's #knoppix. Knoppix is a live CD distribution which is <based on Debian>, useful as a rescue CD, to test hardware, and for situations where you have access to a computer but it isn't Debian. http://www.knoppix.com/ unofficial: http://Debian-knoppix.alioth.Debian.org/ <Debian-live> is the Debian equivalent for publishing live systems.
08:43<Guest1945>i have one ISO in DVD
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08:44<stderr_dk>Guest1945: Read what dpkg said...
08:45<SynrG>Katy: i see. then it's just a matter of convincing mplayer to change Master instead.
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08:46<SynrG>Katy: according to the man page, -mixer-channel Master
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08:47<Jean_kira2437>i am sorry
08:48<Jean_kira2437> i want to know how install knoppix in my Hard Disk
08:48<SynrG>Katy: if that works, your ~/.mplayer/config could have 'mixer-channel=Mixer' to fix this permanently
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08:49<SynrG>Katy: or else /etc/mplayer/mplayer.conf to make it system-wide
08:49<Katy>SynrG: Thanks, working now.
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08:50-!-mode/#debian [+l 630] by debhelper
08:50<SynrG>Jean_kira2437: you are in the wrong channel. as indicated before, you want #knoppix @ irc.freenode.net
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08:50<Jean_kira2437>yes
08:51<SynrG>Jean_kira2437: so join that channel and ask your channel there, not here.
08:51<SynrG>we don't support knoppix
08:52<SynrG>the people on channel #knoppix on the irc.freenode.net network (which is different from the network you're on) can help.
08:52<Jean_kira2437>ok
08:54<SynrG>Jean_kira2437: right-click this link and choose Connect: irc://chat.freenode.net/knoppix
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08:56<Phuzzy>Elvano: looks like Virtualbox this time...
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09:01<sonfack>i am looking for a solution for sharing my band width ( internet connection) to users of my local network
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09:02<SynrG>Elvano: was that system installed from a live image? do you really need virtualbox and vmtools? probably not ...
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09:03<SynrG>Elvano: dpkg -l '*-dkms' and find the ones for the failing modules and remove them
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09:04<SynrG>incidentally, the install should've removed those packages ... did the install not complete properly?
09:04<SynrG>a live install is supposed to execute a hook at the end to remove unneeded packages that are a part of the live environment only
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09:07<Elvano2>My debian image does have a liveCD, but I installed it through "graphical installation". I do not have any VM software installed (clean install)
09:08<SynrG>Elvano2: that's not what that log says
09:08<SynrG>the log says you have the dkms packages for vmware and virtualbox installed.
09:09<SynrG>i'm still not clear on the answer to my question:
09:09<SynrG>did you install your Debian system from a live CD?
09:09<SynrG>if so, which specific image?
09:09<Elvano2>Yea, I guess
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09:10<Elvano2>I have no idea.I had this image lying around for a while now. o-o
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09:10<SynrG>as i said, the live installer should have executed a hook to clean up that stuff. the possibilities are: 1) you used a wrong image (e.g. very old) 2) you used the right image but it has an unsolved bug 3) your install had problems at the end
09:11<SynrG>please don't install debian from out of date images. they quite likely have bugs solved in later releases :(
09:11<Elvano2>I guess I better get a clean install from a new image first then?
09:12<SynrG>not necessarily. if the only bug is the failure to remove live-specific things, you could clean them up manually.
09:12<SynrG>but yes, if you want to remove all doubt ...
09:12<SynrG>clean install
09:12<SynrG>then repeat the steps to: add backports, install kernel & headers & nvidia-kernel-dkms from backports.
09:13<Elvano2>Well, I didn't really move any of my old data yet, so a clean install is no biggy
09:13<SynrG>ok
09:14<Elvano2>I just have to dd the iso to my usb storage device, right?
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09:16<SynrG>Elvano2: or cp. dd is not really needed. but make sure it's to the whole device, not a partition
09:17<SynrG>and of course this wipes everything on that usb storage device
09:17<SynrG>and make sure that usb storage device is not automounted (or if it is, unmount it)
09:18<Elvano2>lol, what's the difference between dd and cp here?
09:18<SynrG>dd, unless you get the options right, is less efficient
09:18<SynrG>"in unix everything is just a file"
09:18<SynrG>so cp will copy all the bytes from the image to the device ...
09:18<SynrG>which is what you want
09:18<SynrG>cp also takes advantage of the buffering inherent to file operations
09:19<SynrG>hence, efficient
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09:20<SynrG>dd, on the other hand, has a default block size of 512 bytes. this is not optimal. you can specify a larger block size to help ... but why bother, when cp is less typing and is just as efficient?
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09:26<Elvano2>I see. Well time to reinstall.
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09:27<danlii>Not a Debian specific question, but hoping someone can answer anyway... I have an Intel fakeraid raid5 array on a machine, which I want to migrate to a single SSD drive instead. I tried booting on a live usb and do dmraid -ay, but it complains about not finding the raid45 module, which does not exist. Any ideas about what I could do instead?
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09:30<amireldor>I need to do THIS on debian: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/alsa-driver/+bug/871808/comments/34,
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09:31<amireldor>Which is, adding an option to alsa-base.conf, but it seems the option is not working
09:32<amireldor>hmm maybe I should elaborate: I added the line, did a reboot, and the sub is still not working (under debian wheezy). When I did this on an Ubuntu it worked after a reboot. Is an alsa option not compiled in the kernel or something crazy like that?
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09:36<SynrG>amireldor: which part of those instructions? there are some choices.
09:37<SynrG>amireldor: just the modprobe.d part?
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09:38<SynrG>there's always a possibility the problem you're experiencing is not the same bug. care to elaborate?
09:38<SynrG>after all, these are two entirely different distributions with their own kernels ...
09:38<SynrG>and likely have different versions of alsa, and may support different options.
09:38<SynrG>and have different bugs
09:39<amireldor>ּSynrG: Hi
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09:40<amireldor>SynrG, I have a laptop that came bundled with an external subwoofer. I have sound, but the sub is not producing sound.
09:41<amireldor>SynrG, I have tried adding the asus-mode4 option to alsa-base.conf
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09:41<SynrG>amireldor: which audio codec do you have?
09:41<SynrG>that particular option is only relevant to ALC662/663/272
09:42<SynrG>see /usr/share/doc/linux-doc-3.2/Documentation/sound/alsa/HD-Audio-Models.txt.gz for a list of audio codecs and the models for each
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09:42<SynrG>amireldor: assuming you are using card0, then:
09:42<SynrG>grep -i codec /proc/asound/card0/codec#0
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09:44<amireldor>SynrG, this is the same machine where the solution I linked to worked, only I installed debian over the ubuntu this time
09:44<SynrG>amireldor: while normally the kernel autodetects which model to use for your particular codec, sometimes for newer hardware no specific model# exists for your hardware in your version of the kernel. in that case, *sometimes* you could work around this by choosing a similar model# until you get a kernel with proper support for your model
09:45<SynrG>but this is all very very iffy
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09:45<SynrG>and quite sensitive to what version of the kernel you're using (and hence version of alsa modules)
09:45<SynrG>amireldor: so, which version of the kernel did you have under ubuntu? and which alsa version?
09:46<SynrG>see "cat /proc/asound/version"
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09:49<amireldor>SynrG, on ubuntu I had a 12.04, and I didn't touch the kernel or alsa versions. I can check their version on the web as I don't have an Ubuntu installed here. My debian is new and I didn't want to touch anything like the kernel or whatever. should I?
09:49<amireldor>I will check the versions, just a moment
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09:50<SynrG>i don't know what "12.04" is. sorry. you need to translate that into a specific upstream kernel version# and/or alsa version#
09:50<SynrG>i know debian. i don't know ubuntu
09:51<amireldor>SynrG, oh sorry :), 12.04 is the Ubuntu version from 2012-04
09:51<SynrG>amireldor: i will hazard a guess that 12.04 (i know version#s are date-based) ... has a newer kernel than debian
09:51<SynrG>and therefore quite possibly newer alsa
09:52<amireldor>Alsa seems to be 1.0.25, Kernel seems to be 3.2.0.57.68, from packages.ubuntu.com version "precise" or 12.04
09:53<amireldor>these are the versions I had on Ubuntu
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09:53<amireldor>now I installed debian, kernel: 3.2.0-4, alsa: 1.0.24
09:53<SynrG>amireldor: wheezy's kernel has 1.0.24
09:53<SynrG>yeah
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09:54<SynrG>so advice for 1.0.25 probably doesn't apply to 1.0.24. sorry
09:54<SynrG>the good news is:
09:54<SynrG>!bpo kernel
09:54<dpkg>Newer kernels for Debian stable releases are available from the "wheezy-backports" repository. Ask me about <wheezy-backports> to modify your sources.list, then run «aptitude update». To install the current backported kernel: «aptitude -t wheezy-backports install linux-image-`uname -r|sed 's,[^-]*-[^-]*-,,'`». To list available backported kernel image packages: «aptitude search '?narrow(~nlinux-image,?origin(Debian Backports))'».
09:54<SynrG>amireldor: if you're using a backports kernel, you may not need any special tricks in modprobe.d. i would undo that if i were you.
09:55<SynrG>ideally, the kernel figures out exactly what model is needed by autodetection
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09:55<SynrG>my experience is, the exact model names to support your hardware may change over time from one kernel release to the next ...
09:55<SynrG>so it's always best to let the kernel modules autodetect and set the appropriate model on their own
09:56<SynrG>*only* force the model=# option if you have issues with the default, and then be careful to review that option in future updates to the kernel.
09:57<amireldor>Thank you for the advice, SynrG
09:58<SynrG>so in summary: a wheezy-backports kernel may help here (without modprobe.d model= override) ... and if that fails, you can try the model= thing again.
09:58<SynrG>i would be interested to hear how it turns out
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09:59<amireldor>I'll do my best to come to report
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10:19<Elvano>I have reinstalled debian. Now what am I supposed to do in what order again, SynrG ? ;o
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11:04<amireldor>SynrG, Hello again, upgrade the kernel through bdo. Without the model option - sub did not work. With the model option - worked(!)
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11:05<amireldor>But I don't understand completely what is going on.
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11:23-!-MC71 is "M4DC0W71" on #csse4004a #ultratux @#secrekeeprs #127.0.0.1 #nips #debian-es-cachondeo #olpc-sur #aprendizaje #fio #youwannnadietonightandotherclassictales #----------- #debian #Java #windowspowered #0x43 #olpc-devel #olpc-rwanda #odamex # #philosophy #debian-es #sekretos #linux
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11:26<satyam>hi
11:26<satyam>any buddy hear
11:27<satyam>hi
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11:27<LtL>sanova: hi, yes many are here
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11:33<LtL>sanova: sorry, wrong nick
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11:44<SynrG>amireldor: ok. great
11:44<SynrG>amireldor: could be my assumption that 'autodetecting the model should just work' doesn't hold for this case
11:44<SynrG>amireldor: but that's pretty nasty to expect the user to have to know to fill this in ...
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11:44<SynrG>amireldor: or it could be a bug that has just gone unresolved for several kernel releases :/
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11:50<amireldor>SynrG, can you please explain or direct to a page about the alsa jargon? i.e. what is a model? a codec? how does it fit with the actual hardware? I would like some order in my mind
11:51<amireldor>SynrG, ...and, should I report a bug against the kernel?
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12:07<SynrG>amireldor: i'm saying "either it's by design or a bug, i don't know which". i suppose if you talked to #alsa @ irc.freenode.net they might be able to answer that. there's no point in filing a bug if it's by design
12:07<SynrG>amireldor: honestly, i don't know anything more about what a model or codec really are except for what's included in the kernel documentation.
12:09<SynrG>amireldor: my hazy conception is that a model identifies a particular implementation (or close family of implementations) of the hda-intel specification (which is, as i understand it, not a really tightly defined thing ...)
12:09<amireldor>SynrG, I see. I will ask on #alsa@freenode. Thank you for your help and getting my woofer working.
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12:09<SynrG>that a "codec" may refer to particular components used to make different models ...
12:09<SynrG>s/refer to/correspond to/
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12:09<SynrG>amireldor: and that's about all i have :)
12:10<SynrG>amireldor: the rest is just working knowledge based on seeing lots of different devices (mostly eeepcs when i actively worked on debian-eeepc)
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12:11<asdaw>SynrG, using sed in irc. respect!
12:11<SynrG>amireldor: "hda-intel" is not made by intel, but is a design for integrated chipset
12:12<SynrG>it seems there are different chip vendors with their names attached to different codecs.
12:12<SynrG>asdaw: ah. it's a common convention. even my wife uses it ...
12:13<asdaw>first time i saw it being used was in manning and lamo's chat logs
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12:13<SynrG>asdaw: not been an irc user for long?
12:14<asdaw>indeed
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12:20<Muharremm>EUZUBILLAHIMINEÞÞEYTANIRRACIM BISMILLAHIRRAHMANIRRAHIM
12:20<Muharremm>ALLAHU EKBERRRRR! LA ÝLAHE ÝLLALLAH MUHAMMEDEN RESULULLAH!
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12:20<asdaw>*explodes*
12:21<amireldor>kill all the juice
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12:22<asdaw>in #debian-security too?
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12:33<Elvano>I have reinstalled debian, installed the newer
12:33<Elvano>st kerner, header, nvidia-driver and nvidia headers
12:34<Elvano>µit givesme the black screen again =/
12:34<sney>did you follow the nvidia package's instructions to create an xorg.conf snippet?
12:35<Elvano>yes, I did
12:35<sney>which nvidia gpu is it?
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12:36<Elvano>Uhm... my graphic card is Geforce GT 640m
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12:37<sney>is that an Optimus notebook? do you have both nvidia and intel?
12:37<Elvano>Yea
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12:38<sney>on some optimus systems, the nvidia gpu is inaccessible outside of windows. on some others, you can switch it permanently in the bios
12:39<sney>there's also the 'bumblebee' project which aims to let you switch back and forth, but it depends on the system
12:39<sney>I've never seen a system with optimus where all you needed to do was install the nvidia driver
12:40<Elvano>I'll have to go "socialise" now. Thanks, sney. I'll look in that direction next time
12:40<sney>ok
12:40<Elvano>see ya
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12:51<gnugr>buffer 50
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13:03<awal>Hi! Is there any command I can run for see wich packages are upgraded recently (today or since last day, for example)?
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13:05<mtn>awal: /var/log/dpkg.log will show what you have done
13:06<trico>yeah, mtn beat me to it
13:06<mtn>:)
13:06<awal>mtn: ok, Thanks :)
13:07<mtn>awal: yw
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13:10<awal>mtn: the command as root return: 'permission denied'
13:10<mtn>awal: what command?
13:11<awal>mtn: /var/log/dpkg.log
13:11<mtn>awal: that is not a command, it is a file
13:11<awal>mtn: so i must do cat /var/log/dpkg.log ?
13:11<mtn>awal: or use an editor or less or....
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13:12<asdaw>less /var/log/dpkg.log
13:12<awal>mtn: ok ok, sorry. was confused :)
13:12<mtn>awal: npo
13:12<mtn>awal: no prolbem
13:12<awal>asdaw: ok :)
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13:35<rivarun>as which user would an anonymous samba client attempt to create files?
13:36<sney>depends on the setup.
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13:38<Eco>rivarun: guests
13:40<rivarun>sney, Eco: it does say that with the way i use "map to guest", it will indeed by mapped to guests. is that "nobody"?
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13:49<guext123>Hello.
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13:51<guext123>I'm trying to do an automated installation of debian using a preseed file and I configure the target network in my late_command but this config gets overwritten by finish-install (more specifically /usr/lib/finish-install.d/55netcfg-copy-config). Is there any way to create a network configuration during late_command and prevent it from being overwritten in finish-install?
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14:20<Yena>hola?
14:20<lostatwork>!ask
14:20<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
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14:23<caravel>!es
14:23<dpkg>Este canal es de soporte tecnico en Ingles para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en espanol, por favor ingrese a #debian-es con /join #debian-es tecleado en la linea de chat.
14:23<caravel>:)
14:23<caravel>Yena: ? ^^
14:24*Out`Of`Control tries to read Yena mind
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14:29*SamB wonders why libc++ is packaged
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14:31<TobiX>SamB: Why shouldn't it?
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14:31<SamB>I mean, I don't really see what it's there for
14:32<SamB>nothing appears to use it ...
14:32<KaaK>for any sudo experts: if my user has the following sudoers stanza 'myuser ALL = NOPASSWD: ALL', why do i get promted for a password when attempting to run the following -- 'sudo -s -u some_other_user'?
14:32<KaaK>normal 'sudo <command>' works without prompting for a password
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14:33<KaaK>im reading through the sudoers man page, trying to figure out why, and its pretty daunting
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14:33<SamB>that manpage does seem kind of hard to follow, yes
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14:34<SamB>it'd be helpful if sudo had a "dissect this entry and tell me which sections of the manual apply to which text" tool
14:35<KaaK>just stumbled across this: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6905697/how-to-run-script-as-another-user-without-password
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14:36<KaaK>with a bit of digging in the man page, i think i can wildcard the other user
14:37<TobiX>SamB: Well, libc++ is prabably there for people to use clang+libc++ with their own project, not for packages yet...
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14:43<SamB>KaaK: I don't see a way to do it :-(
14:44<KaaK>got it: mysuer ALL=(ALL:ALL) NOPASSWD: ALL
14:44<SamB>hmm
14:44<SamB>I did not see that listed as valid syntax
14:45<KaaK>the important bit is ALL=(ALL:ALL), which states that myuser can become any other user or group, without the need of a password
14:46<SamB>yes, I managed to decipher where the necessary construct would go
14:46<SamB>well, I might have gotten confused about where the = goes
14:47<SamB>ah, "Other special characters and reserved words"
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15:04<DeepBlue> How can I install Chmsee? Please help!
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15:05<sney>install what?
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15:06<Celelaptop>xpdf is all broken in sid and testing, does someone have a solution?
15:06<DeepBlue>an HTML viewer
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15:06<Celelaptop>That's not a solution. :)
15:06<sney>Celelaptop, evince?
15:07<DeepBlue>no,not supported
15:07<SamB>hmm
15:07<SamB>,bugs xpdf
15:07<Celelaptop>Bug #727822 for xpdf.
15:08<SamB>hmm, you're not judd but okay, I'll take it ...
15:08<sney>DeepBlue, I wasn't talking to you when I said evince. if you need help with something you need to provide details. chmsee isn't in debian so ...
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15:09<sney>oh, maybe it is. apt-get install chmsee - if that doesn't work then pastebin your errors
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15:10<DeepBlue>sney, E: Unable to locate package chmsee
15:10<sney>DeepBlue, what debian version?
15:10<SamB>Celelaptop: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=727070 seems more useful ...
15:10<DeepBlue>the latest
15:10<DeepBlue>wheezy
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15:11<sney>hmm weird, hang on
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15:12<Celelaptop>SamB: the solution for patching fontconfig is for an older release of fontconfig, and they decided it was a bug in xpdf and not in fontconfig.
15:12<Celelaptop>http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=728444#25
15:13<sney>DeepBlue, unfortunately it's been removed from debian because it was incompatible with newer versions of iceweasel
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15:14<guilherme>Hi, I inted to buy a new notebook , with 2 hd's a ssd and a sshd for data, I want to know if it is possible to set to "modes" on grub, one without turning on the secoond drive. Is it possible?
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15:15<DeepBlue>that's a pity
15:15<sney>DeepBlue, the 2.0.1 package from here may work for you: http://snapshot.debian.org/package/chmsee/2.0.1-1/#chmsee_2.0.1-1
15:16<sney>if apt complains about missing dependencies you can run 'aptitude -f install'
15:16<trico>modes?
15:16<DeepBlue>i don't wanna end up with a broken system
15:17<sney>little applications like that are very unlikely to break anything, especially since it uses xulrunner it probably won't touch anything else
15:18<guilherme>I mean to create an entry on grub where I can just initializate the first drive. The second one will have only data and will be mounted in another place.
15:18<trico>guilherme: take a look at this wiki, it describes how to set the io scheduler for each drive: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Solid_State_Drives
15:18<trico>if youre talking about mount points, thats done in fstab
15:18<DeepBlue>sney, ok,thanx a lot
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15:21<guilherme>trico: no, not the mount point, I just said that to emphasize that there is no system files or anything like that on the second drive
15:22<guilherme>trico: thanks, I will read it, but this schedule scheme could be used on boot time?
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15:24<trico>yeah, thats how i understand it. i dont really get the other part there. debian installer wont put anything on the second drive unless you tell it to
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15:27<guilherme>trico, ok, but I want have 2 options on grub, on one of them I did not turn this drive on, so I can save energy and do not have to care about shaking the note. Just to be more "portable (safe)"
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15:44<trico>guilherme: oh thats a really cool and interesting setup. unfortunately, i don't know how you would go about it. hdparm should be able to turn the drive off, but i dont know how you would trigger it with a boot option or init level
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15:48<hOURoNE>hello
15:48<hOURoNE>nevermind
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15:49<guilherme>trico, ok, thanks :) thanks a lot. Uhm, another question, about ssd (that is not the topic of the channel, but ..). Do you think it worth? I read something about deterioration over time, is it reversible? Do you know?
15:53<trico>samsung's are usually well recommended and highly rated. i have an ocz, no problems with it, but they went out of business. they have a limited number of writes, but that should still last you many many years. i hear they do start to slow down over 75% capacity, i dont know what the reason for that is though
15:54<lupine>but, their firmware can't be trusted
15:54<lupine>(thanks snowden)
15:55<trico>cant trust anyones firmware, if that's your issue. i would definitely avoid ocz until toshiba decides if they are going to honor the warranty on them
15:56<guilherme>ok, I think I got it, thanks a lot
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15:57<trico>youre welcome
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17:12<variable_>happy new years =]
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19:00<stderr_dk>Well, it's 00:00 UTC, so I guess this would be a good time to say Happy New Year, Debian...
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19:22<maint>I can't find http://packages.debian.org/squeeze-backports/firmware-realtek for wheezy, can someone help?
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19:23<maint>at least tell me how to correct my stupidity, lol
19:24<maint>I've been up for 47 hours, and I feel retarded...
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19:31<Katy>http://packages.debian.org/wheezy/firmware-realtek
19:31<Katy>get some sleep, maybe
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19:34<maint>grrrrr, why does it not show up in synaptic?
19:34<maint>Katy, believe me, I'm working on it ;)
19:35-!-xbytemx [~xbytemx@187.150.64.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:35<sney>maint, it's in non-free
19:36<sney>non-free is not enabled by default.
19:36-!-aiaco [~aiaco@109.55.224.163] has quit []
19:38<maint>sney, thanks I knew that... just could not remember. Thanks sney and Katy.
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19:39<maint>my last server has been running since 6.0 without touching it. (testament to stability)
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19:44*dvs hacks maint's server due to lack of security updates
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20:06<rami>hi
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20:21<Celelaptop>I don't understand why I can't install xpdf.
20:21<Celelaptop>apt-get say it depends on packages I already have with the right versions.
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20:21-!-lostson_ is now known as lostson
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20:24<Celelaptop>http://paste.debian.net/73579/ <-- this does not make any sens.
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20:29<stderr_dk>Celelaptop: You're using sid. Have you tried asking in #debian-next?
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20:31<Celelaptop>I'm more into testing. But it's the same.
20:31-!-jemadux_ [~jemadux@2001:648:2ffc:1225:a800:1ff:fec4:78ba] has joined #debian
20:32<Celelaptop>For stable, it's also the same problem.
20:32<Celelaptop>well, only about libpoppler19.
20:32-!-jemadux_ [~jemadux@2001:648:2ffc:1225:a800:1ff:fec4:78ba] has left #debian []
20:33<stderr_dk>Celelaptop: Testing would be #debian-next too.
20:33-!-xxxxx [~vahid@pool-173-60-199-188.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #debian
20:34<Celelaptop>ok
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21:18-!-kev__ [~kevin@h-35-14.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #debian
21:18<kev__>HI!
21:19<kev__>I Just installed Debian and I'm a noob. How can I change my DNS to Googles?
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21:20-!-mode/#debian [+l 607] by debhelper
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21:23<stderr_dk>kev__: /etc/resolv.conf
21:23<stderr_dk>But if you're using DHCP, you want to change it in your DHCP-server instead.
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21:30<kev__>ughhh
21:30<kev__>cant connect to the vpn
21:34-!-bolt [~r00t@cm-84.215.117.45.getinternet.no] has joined #debian
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21:37<kev__>stderr_dk,
21:37<kev__>do i need to restart m ycomputer after that?
21:37<stderr_dk>No.
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21:54<gry>I forgot the name of the tool which can work like vnc, but only share one window
21:54<gry>I think I got a link to it here earlier but didn't bookmark it
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22:05<nevyn>x11?
22:05<Katy>ssh?
22:06-!-lmbeta8 [~lmbeta8@96.127.224.163] has joined #debian
22:07<ompaul>xdmcp
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22:13<gry>nevyn: x11 works with x11vnc which shares entire desktop, not one window
22:14-!-awal [~awal@216.165.209.19] has joined #debian
22:14<gry>nevyn: besides, this is a xen vps, in which I can only run tightvncserver, not real x11
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22:42<acald3ron_>Happy new year.
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23:39<Zaxim_>hey everyone. I'm trying to setup dropbear so that I remote unlock LUKS. However, I keep getting an access denied for all my usernames and passwords, including root. Anyone willing to help me troubleshoot this?
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23:45<Katy>Zaxim_: I don't know about login in with user/pass, but with login in with keys you need an seperate key for dropbear than the one you usually use for this box. Dunno, if this helps you.
23:47<Zaxim_>I wanted to do it without keys, since I have multiple machines I might need to login from. But thanks Katy!
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23:50<Katy>Did it year ago or so, remeber it was pita, cause documentation was real bad.
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---Logclosed Wed Jan 01 00:00:02 2014