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#debian IRC Logs for 2014-01-08

---Logopened Wed Jan 08 00:00:15 2014
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00:42<Daemoen>is it possible to do multiple VGs in a single preseed expert recipe ?
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01:26<Compgeke|Lptp>'evening guys. Any advice on loading firmware from a flash drive for a disk controller without the flash drive mounting as /dev/sda?
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01:29<jm_>flash drives typicall have partitions on them so it's not sda
01:30*Daemoen would still like to figure out how debian installer passes as a decent automation framework :\
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01:31<SamB>jm_: somehow I don't think that will help
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01:54<Compgeke> <-- It is mounting the flashdrive as /dev/sda
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01:57<jm_>that's a list of devices, it's normal to list it as sda because that means the entire device, what exactly is the issue?
01:57<Compgeke>After the install is done it reboots and fails to mount root as it tries to find root on /dev/sdb
01:58<jm_>are you using debian at all?
01:59<jm_>did you enable UUID mounting?
01:59<Compgeke>Not sure how
01:59<jm_>grep UUID /etc/default/grub
01:59<jm_>also look in fstab how root device is listed
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02:05<linux_user>Hi, I have a quick question about harddrive UUIDs -- I'm booting off of a live cd, and I was wondering why the ntfs partitions have nonstandard UUIDs (shorter, no dashes)
02:05<linux_user>does this matter at all?
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02:10<jm_>because that's a property of the fs?
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02:11<SamB>for some reason, NTFS doesn't use real UUIDs
02:11<linux_user>I looked it up, couldn't find why
02:11<linux_user>oh, ok
02:11<SamB>I can only assume MS just didn't think of that ...
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02:12<linux_user>I just wondered how come the system recognized it without the proper length, or does that not matter (if I change it to something shorter will it still work?)
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02:13<musca>linux_user: the UUID is a property of the filesystem, see the -U option in the man page of mkfs.ext2
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02:14<linux_user>yeah, I read you can change it with the -U option
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02:14<jm_>without the proper length? the tool obviously knows what length to look for
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02:30<fcrs>hey jm_, thanks for helping me with my "root on lvm/raid" question the other week, turned out initramfs looks at the value of INITRDSTART in /etc/defaults/mdadm, so that was the trick to getting it working
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02:33<jm_>fcrs: are you sure it was me? I was not on IRC for the past two weeks :)
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02:34<fcrs>think so, i was gone for that long too
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02:58<Daemoen>ok, lets see if anyone is active now :)
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02:58<Daemoen>is it possible to setup multiple lvm vgs in a preseed expert reciper ?
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03:14<tgs3>Daemoen: I know LVMs, but your question is too advanced ;) at least I'm active tho
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03:15<tgs3>Daemoen: perhaps there is some way to script the thing that you want
03:15<Daemoen>tgs3: yeah... its "technically" an ubuntu question i suppose, but so far, noone seems to know squat about preseed.. which is downright scary
03:15<Daemoen>tgs3: preseed is directly related to "Scripting" it so to speak
03:15<Daemoen>preseed is debians automated response toolkit for the debian installer
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03:15<Daemoen>it sucks though :|
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03:16<tgs3>Daemoen: sorry I dunno yet. How ever we will be probably writting some custom scripts to installer of Debian over at #mempo if you would like to idle for a month it would be nice :) developing secure debian.
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03:38<DrZaius>is it possible for iceweasel to pickup system mimetypes handeling?
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03:41<DeepBlue>why win thumbnails and caffeine switch off?
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03:42<DrZaius>DeepBlue: what?
03:42<DeepBlue>in gnome3.10
03:42<DrZaius>i still dont understand the question
03:43<DeepBlue>the win thumnails extension switches off
03:43<DeepBlue>and caffiene as well
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03:45<DrZaius>you are better off asking to the author of the extension himself im afraid
03:45<DrZaius>from my experience gnome-shell extensions are highly uncompatible between releases
03:45<DeepBlue>DrZaius, ok ,thanx a lot
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04:04<apm1>nothing screws me over more than libc depends
04:04<apm1>oops wrong chan sorry folks
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04:23<nocturnal>is there some way to specify MAILTO for cron.daily?
04:23<nocturnal>I believe they're run by run-parts
04:23<nocturnal>but I can't see in its man about MAILTO
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04:24<DrZaius>i think is set in /etc/default/cron, but not sure
04:24<nocturnal>ahh that would make sense, I'll try
04:25<nocturnal>maybe my reasoning is flawed but a clear majority of my scripts run either daily, hourly or weekly. so I think it's more elegant to put them into cron.daily than somewhere else and use /etc/cron.d
04:25<nocturnal>I know opinions differ on this
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04:25<DrZaius>its also easily to manage... do upgrades etc
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04:26<jm_>tried putting it in /etc/crontab?
04:26<DrZaius>you copy files instead of seding files
04:26<nocturnal>/etc/crontab seems like a terrible idea
04:26<nocturnal>oh you mean MAILTO?
04:27<jm_>yes, MAILTO
04:27<nocturnal>will try that too
04:27<nocturnal>but default would be nice
04:27<nocturnal>even nicer would be if run-parts could use a MAILTO variable set in the script it executes.
04:27<DrZaius>yeah, it should be already therre commented
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04:29<DrZaius>is there a way to create a folder copy on write wihtout using btrfs?
04:29<stderr>MAILTO in /etc/crontab seems a bit wierd since that file also contains a username of each entry.
04:30<DrZaius>im trying to use disposable lxc ... kinda like what cowbuilder does but with containers
04:30<valdyn>stderr: why is that weird?
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04:30<stderr>valdyn: Run these scripts as "foo" and these as "bar", but send the output to "baz"?
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04:31<stderr>It would make more sense to me to specify it in each script.
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04:31<valdyn>stderr: there is per user crontabs
04:31<jm_>yeah but then he'd end up with many config files to deal with each time
04:32<nocturnal>huh well I just realized that my aliases are set so that root will send out to the relevant people. so since root is the default recipient for cron.daily I am ok with this setting. I just have to wait for the hourly cron run to make sure.
04:32<valdyn>stderr: mail for the admin should not usually go to root though but to whatever account the admin wants to (except root)
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04:33<fcrs>cron MAILTO usually defaults to root so it might be easlier to specify an email address in /etc/aliases instead of modifying cron's MAILTO
04:33<nocturnal>I'm not sure what best practice is but my root account maps to the relevant admins, and a distribution mailing list for the entire ops team.
04:33<valdyn>stderr: but theres alternative methods to redirect root mail, what fcrs sais
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04:34<stderr>Well, it just sounds weird to me, but hey, it's not my system, so I don't really care. :-)
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05:33<ixi>I am getting [notice] child pid 9808 exit signal Segmentation fault (11) in apache2 error log on stable
05:33<ixi>how do I debug this ?
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05:36<ixi>at least how do I know what process/executable the child is segfaulting in
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05:37<roughnecks>try "LogLevel Debug" in your enabled site
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05:38<roughnecks>Possible values include: debug, info, notice, warn, error, crit, alert, emerg.
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05:41<ixi>thanks, I will try
05:41<jm_>you could also enable core dumping and then check the core file
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06:40<Mobix>Hello, Debhelper
06:41<Mobix>you there?
06:41<jm_>debhelper is a bot
06:41<Mobix>oh alright
06:42<Mobix>have you heard about lxle?
06:42<jm_>only about lxde
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06:44<Mobix>i can't figure out how to make icon shortcuts on lxle :p
06:45<jm_>are you using ubuntu?
06:45<Mobix>sorry im not good with this
06:46<Mobix>trying to get used with this whole OS
06:46<jm_>lxle claims to be ubuntu with lxde
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06:48<jm_>perhaps try or ask on ubuntu irc otherwose
06:48<jm_>otherwise too
06:48<jm_>I also found a post saying "I created them by right-clicking on the desktop and selecting Create New... > Shortcut"
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06:53<magnus>friends im using debian 7 and m not able to use exits everytime i open its qt frontend vidaldi
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07:06<nocturnal>I have one squeeze system where I can't give myself sudo access. the same /etc/sudoers.d/sudo file is deployed to a group of systems so it's identical with systems where sudo access is working. %sudo ALL=NOPASSWD: ALL and I've added my user to the sudo group. I've logged out. I've made sure there are no other sessions for my user. yet I still have to give my password for that one system. all others work. what could cause this?
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07:08<nocturnal>I've also made sure there are no other rules for the sudo group in /etc/sudoers
07:08<themill>does /etc/sudoers include the directive to include /etc/sudoers.d/*?
07:09<jm_>heh I was going to ask that after verifying that squeeze version of sudo supports sudoers.d :)
07:09<themill>yeah, I'd just checked that bit too
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07:11<nocturnal>thanks themill
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07:24<wolf>hi. who can help install the driver ATI Radeon 96000 Pro(AGP)? debian testing,XFCE
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07:27<musca>!radeon firmware
07:27<dpkg>Binary-only firmware was removed from the radeon <DRM> driver at linux-2.6 2.6.29-1 (Debian bug #494009) and is packaged separately in firmware-linux-nonfree. Without this package installed, poor 2D/3D performance in the <radeon> xorg driver is commonly experienced. To acquire, ask me about <non-free sources>. This is not required for use of the <fglrx> driver.
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07:29<musca>wolf: ^ did you install firmware-linux-nonfree from the non-free repo?
07:29<zcd>has anyone run into a font issue like this
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07:31<wolf>when install firmware-linux-nonfree begins to fail panel and wing icon sets
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07:33<wolf>when you install firmware-linux-nonfree starts buggy panel and wing icon sets
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07:49<petn-randall>zcd: I don't understand the issue. At first glance it looks ok to me.
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07:49<petn-randall>wolf: Debian testing and newer are supported in #debian-next.
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07:52<wolf>install firmware-linux-nonfree. play flash video still inhibits
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08:18<vononka>hello everybody
08:18<vononka>have you an distro debian server?
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08:54<raku>Hey there, I am running into some difficulties installing the Bumblebee drivers. The documentation doesn't give exact steps on how to install them. E.g. I've now installed bumblebee-nvidia and primus. Which has broken everything.
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08:54<raku>How do I go about fixing this?
08:55<raku>(and or reading some proper installation steps?)
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09:11<babilen>raku: "the documentation" ?
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09:19<raku>Oh, I see.. It's not an actual driver it adds support to the nvidia-drivers?
09:19<babilen>That was my understanding too, but then I am not too familiar with optimus as I quite intentionally didn't buy it
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10:06<WUKONS>hi there, can someone please provide me with proper tutorial how to preperly setup sendmail on debian 7
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10:07<knoppix_>hi from knoppix
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10:14<babilen>WUKONS: sendmail, really?
10:15<babilen>dpkg: tell WUKONS -about sendmail
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10:15<babilen>WUKONS: Read (but then, why not learn postix or exim?)
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10:17<WUKONS>babilen: postfix never did his work or i don't know what kind of superpower config it needs
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10:26<babilen>WUKONS: There are plenty of sites running either postfix or exim, but configuring those is certainly no easy feat. I was just surprised that you chose sendmail which is renowned for its complicated configuration.
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10:27<jthomas>Good day! Can I ask for Oracle Java help here? We have a JetBrains License Server WAR file that runs fine on an Ubuntu 10.04 Tomcat7 / Java6 setup, but we cannot get the WAR to run on Debian 7.3 with Tomcat{6,7} and Java{6,7}. JetBrains isn't responding to supoprt requests and we don't want to use Ubuntu.
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10:38<user74747>Hey all! I have a weird question. Is there a command that would play 8-bit chiptune based on the data in command line or stdin? Ideally, using the same format as G-BASIC'S PLAY keyword e.g. PLAY "A1:B#C".
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11:20<Superdawg>I've got a boot problem on a really old version of debian (4.0, aka. etch). For some reason, the kernel is failing to detect the hard disks and therefore is throwing me into a busybox. Is there any way I can get some kind of logging to show what is failing to load, and thus preventing the system from finding the hard disk? Grub is installed on /dev/sda, /boot is on /dev/sda1, which is also where the base OS lives (/lib, /us
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11:21<Superdawg>I'm booted into a live build running squeeze and I can see everything on the disk, but none of the logs are getting updated, obviously.
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11:21<Superdawg>fsck passes across the board.
11:22<Superdawg>It's strange, because I get some mdadm warnings about not being able to detect any md devices. I don't have any, so I don't see how that could be causing my problem.
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11:24<Superdawg>I've tried re-generating the initrd in the event that *for some reason* a module got screwed up inside there.
11:25<Superdawg>My next step that I'm trying is pulling the /lib/modules/$(uname -r) from another system with the same versions of kernel and such. This one's got me scratching my head..
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12:17<tmmt>is it stated somewhere in Debian docs that one should not invoke manually /etc/init.d scripts, but instead use the service(8) command ?
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12:35<cabezametal>Hi, i cant install git-annex. sudo apt-get install git-annex returns Unable to locate package git-annex. All my repos are up to date
12:35<pauloricardoasilva>I have a debian runs an apache when I activate the process of apache processing machinery increases I'm thinking it's backdoor as I proceed?
12:35<pauloricardoasilva>processing only increases when active apache
12:36<pauloricardoasilva>anyone help-me ?
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12:37<babilen>dpkg: tell cabezametal about bat
12:38<babilen>judd: v git-annex
12:38<judd>Package: git-annex on i386 -- squeeze-backports: 3.20120629~bpo60+2; wheezy: 3.20120629; wheezy-backports: 4.20131106~bpo70+1; sid: 5.20140107
12:38<babilen>cabezametal: You shouldn't have a problem ^^^ (unless you are tracking testing, but then you should know what to do now)
12:39<pauloricardoasilva>anyone ?
12:40<SynrG>pauloricardoasilva: your problem statement is a bit unclear.
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12:41<babilen>cabezametal: In case you *are* tracking testing: Get it from sid/unstable (e.g. "/msg dpkg tum") and take subsequent questions to our testing/unstable channel #debian-next (cf. /topic) -- If you are tracking wheezy you should be able to install it right away, but take a look at "/msg dpkg wheezy sources.list" and make sure that it is configured correctly.
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12:41<pauloricardoasilva>SynrG I have debian running apache
12:41<pauloricardoasilva>phpinject used and they put a backdoor
12:41<pauloricardoasilva>squeegee when Apache now processing machine rises too
12:41<pauloricardoasilva>as shooting this backdoor
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12:42<SynrG>pauloricardoasilva: are you using automated translation for your language to english? the results are impossible to understand.
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12:43<pauloricardoasilva>I have debian running apache
12:43<pauloricardoasilva>and have backdoor
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12:44<babilen>dpkg: tell pauloricardoasilva -about enter
12:44<Guest3051>Would I get some help about how to fix my Samsung Hd "MBR" around here? Thanks...
12:44<pauloricardoasilva>injected through inject php
12:44<babilen>dpkg: tell Guest3051 -about fixmbr
12:44<pauloricardoasilva>how i remove backdoor
12:45<Maulkin>pauloricardoasilva: Wipe and reinstall
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12:45<dpkg>Este canal é apenas em inglês. Por favor, use #debian-br (/j #debian-br) para ajuda em portugues.
12:45<Maulkin>If you'd prefer.
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12:46<Guest3051>I have may files inside it. If it is possible, I`d like to fix this mbr.
12:47<SynrG>Guest3051: read the answer that dpkg bot sent you in another window.
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12:47<Guest3051>I did read...
12:48<SynrG>and the problem is?
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12:48<blitzed>hiya user74747, I am only aware of "beep" for the PC speaker, using Hz values
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12:48<Guest3051>I have many files inside this hd.
12:48<SynrG>Guest3051: and the problem with that is?
12:48<cabezametal>sorry, thanks for the reply!
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12:49<SynrG>Guest3051: is there some part of the instructions that were given that worries you?
12:49<SynrG>Guest3051: we can explain parts you don't understand, but we need to be told what you don't understand.
12:50<SynrG>Guest3051: or what your specific concerns are
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12:50<Guest3051>I would need another hd to put those files.
12:51<SynrG>"boot to your Debian install disk/live CD"
12:52<Guest3051>I`ll see it. Thanks for your time...
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12:59<nadir>Can someone tell me himself or point me to a link which explains /usr/lib/{pymodules,pyshared} and how they relate to /lib/modules/python[version] ?
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12:59<nadir>I searched the debian wiki, this: and the web, but can't find an answer.
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13:03<SynrG>nadir: dunno. i think that's in python-policy ...
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13:04<nadir>SynrG: thanks. If you don't know it neither, i guess i can live with not knowing it.
13:04<SynrG>no, i looked it up before
13:04<SynrG>unlike perl policy, it's not packaged inside the policy manual
13:05<nadir>Ah, but in perl it is mentioned? That would be a start.
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13:05<nadir>i ask in general, python was an example
13:05<nadir>ruby-vendor is a similar problem.
13:06<SynrG>i know each debian-{lang} project has its own packaging poilcy
13:06<SynrG>where it is located varies per project
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13:06<nadir>Yeah, that's why my first thought was to look at debian wiki python.
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13:07<SynrG>so didn't help?
13:07<nadir>I couldn't find any info, but perhaps am unpatient.
13:07<nadir>No, i don't think that helped
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13:08<SynrG>not helpful?
13:09<nadir>To be honest, i don't fully understand that.
13:09<SynrG>"A common location to share, across Python versions, arch-independent files which would otherwise go to the directory of system public modules is /usr/share/pyshared. For python3, a special location is not required, use /usr/lib/python3/dist-packages"
13:09<SynrG>maybe ask #debian-python for clarification?
13:09<SynrG>or their mailing list
13:10<nadir>Ah, wait. The last sentence. pyshare seems to be used for modules valid for several versions of python
13:10<nadir>But that sure is very high-level talk.
13:10<SynrG>it's not a how-to for sure :)
13:10<nadir>makes me feel dumb like a brick. lol
13:10<nadir>thanks for pointing me to it again.
13:11*nadir tends to be unpatient ...
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13:49<alain>j'ai une question
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13:49<musca>hello alain, this channel is english
13:50<dpkg>Pour l'aide en francais, veuillez rejoindre le canal #debian-fr. Francophone users: for help in french, please go to #debian-fr.
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14:04<jarek>I don't know how configure wifi in my laptop. Who can help me ?
14:05<asdaw>on wheezy my sound has stopped working through the headphones port but plays fine through the laptop speakers. i havent made any changes to the sound config on the machine (and yes the headphones work)
14:05<asdaw>any ideas
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14:05<fervi>jarek - sudo ifconfig
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14:05<fervi>asdaw - do you have pulseaudio?
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14:07<asdaw>fervi, pulseaudio 2.0
14:07<asdaw>alsamixer is present too
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14:09<fervi>jarek, can u show me - dmesg | grep firmware
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14:12<gesh>Hi. I'm getting NoClassDefFoundError's in my tomcat application. I have a hunch that it is caused by having a misconfigured JAVA_HOME.
14:13<gesh>What should JAVA_HOME be set to?
14:13<jarek>i think I even don't have drivers...
14:14<fervi>Jarek - Yes, i give u a command to install it - sec
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14:14<fervi>gesh - you have OpenJDK?
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14:16<fervi>Jarek - sudo apt-get install firmware-b43-installer
14:16<fervi>Remember, it is closed source drivers
14:16<jarek> I tryed install firmware like here but there are no good commands
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14:17<fervi>To install firmware-b43-installer, u must have "contrib non-free" repository on /etc/apt/sources.list
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14:21<jarek> so I have to add everywhere after contrib "non-free" ?
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14:22<fervi>yes, set everywhere "contrib non-free"
14:22<fervi>then sudo apt-get update
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14:22<fervi>and install
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14:26<jarek>still same sytuation
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14:27<fervi>8 linijka ci została
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14:28<sney>jarek: you have to put 'contrib non-free' on line 8 too.
14:28<fervi>w 8 linijce też musisz
14:28<dpkg>Na kanale #debian rozmawiamy po angielsku; jesli chcesz lub wolisz mowic po polsku, wejdz na kanal #debian-pl na (Polish speakers please go to #debian-pl on pl is also <perl>.
14:28<fervi>ok, sorry :P
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14:30<gesh>Anyway, Java is giving me NoClassDefFoundError s. Checking CLASSPATH shows that it's empty. I set JAVA_HOME manually for tomcat applications to /usr/lib/jvm/default-java
14:31<fervi>jarek - now works?
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14:32<jarek>yes now it works and when I installed what can I do now ? :)
14:33<fervi>you have wicd or network-manager installed? (to manage network deviced)
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14:33<fervi>if you do, restart your linux and next time you should have your wifi working
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14:34<fervi>brb - 5 minutes max
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14:35<jarek>ok I'm restarting my laptops :)
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14:39<jarek>fervi: ok I restarted my laptop and wifi still doesn't work. Why ?
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14:40<Ophidian_>any tips for a good php editor in gnome ?
14:41<sney>geany? or gvim etc
14:41<fervi>ok jarek - show again
14:41<fervi>dmesg | grep firmware
14:41<fervi>maybe you still don't have something
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14:44<fervi>ok sorry - u still don't have one package
14:44<jarek>what kind of package ? how can I install it ?
14:45<fervi>give me a sec
14:45<asdaw>fervi, i restarted my machine and sound started working again. guess we'll never know why it happened
14:45<versigtig>What is a good Debian based distro to run on a 14 year old Sony Vaio laptop? (If anyone knows of one.)
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14:46<versigtig>Crunchbang? Maybe?
14:46<asdaw>versigtig, xubuntu or lubuntu i'd say
14:46<koanhead>versigtig, I recommend a Debian minimal install
14:46<versigtig>See, I'm running Xubuntu on it right now.
14:46<koanhead>with maybe LXDE or XFCE added
14:46<versigtig>Not really as...spritely as I'd like.
14:46<wave>I think xubuntu might be overkill
14:47<versigtig>I want like, bare-bones. Everything runs okay but it hangs and just isn't a great experience to use.
14:47<fervi>asdaw - magic :D
14:47<versigtig>But not too bare-bones because I haven't used Linux in like 7 years.
14:47<fervi>jarek - apt-get install firmware-b43legacy-installer
14:47<versigtig>So... have to relearn.
14:47<fervi>jarek - I hope it is last package u need
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14:47<jarek>I hope too :D
14:47<fervi>jarek - I'm not sure, but i thing it is last
14:48<versigtig>Koanhead, would a debian minimal install have all the graphical overhead of, say, Xubuntu?
14:48<wave>how about DSL, or is it totally outdated?
14:48<versigtig>Because I think that is what is really hammering my issues.
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14:49<jarek>and restart laptop again ?
14:49<versigtig>wave, that seems a bit... lacking? perhaps? I have no idea. I'll give it a shot.
14:49<asdaw>you shouldnt ever need to restart linux really
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14:49<asdaw>versigtig, install virtualbox and try out as many as you want
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14:49<fervi>yep - if still doesn't work - write in Private Message
14:49<versigtig>Oh yeah.
14:49<versigtig>asdaw, thanks. I totally forgot.
14:50<versigtig>I could do that.
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14:51<versigtig>So, like, would Arch be a wise choice if I want to be somewhat proficient in a Linux environment again?
14:51<wave>I think some base installation of debian and some really light weight tiling wm (like ratpoison) could do it also
14:52<wave>if you are familiar with tiling wm's
14:52<versigtig>I know that means tiling window manager.
14:52<versigtig>That's about it though.
14:52<wave>or I think openbox is also light
14:52<versigtig>I've used Arch, and all the *buntu distros before.
14:53<versigtig>And I am comfortable with the way Debian works more so than other... formats? I dunno how to say that correctly.
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14:54<asdaw>versigtig, i have to recommend scrotwm
14:54<asdaw>check it out
14:54<fervi>jarek - working?
14:54<jarek>fervi: still no wifi :(
14:54<gsimmons>jarek: The PCI ID of your device ("lspci -nn -d14e4:") would assist.
14:54<versigtig>asdaw, will do~
14:55<asdaw>wave, whats the advantage of ratpoison over plain old <screen>
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14:55<fervi>jarek, maybe we should talking in Private Message to not spam IRC channel? :P
14:56<versigtig>So... I'm somewhat guessing I'd do a debian minimal install with scrotwm as the wm?
14:56<koanhead>versigtig, a minimal install doesn't include any DE
14:56<wave>asdaw: it runs on X and you can use graphical tools with it also
14:56<jarek>ok we can do it :)
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14:56<versigtig>Okay, I guess I don't know what a minimal install is then. Time to find out.
14:56<wave>so everything does not need to be text based
14:57<wave>and I think screen is not wm?
14:57<asdaw>so you can launch things like jpeg viewers and video players
14:57<asdaw>screen is not a wm, youre correct
14:57<wave>maybe you are mixing ratpoison and tmux?
14:57<gsimmons>jarek, fervi: It's preferable to use the channel, so we can all benefit.
14:57<koanhead>minimal install is what you get if you do a netinst and don't pick any tasks from tasksel
14:57<wave>because tmux is similar to screen
14:57<wave>asdaw: yes
14:57<versigtig>koanhead, Okay, that went over my head. I've never done a netinst.
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14:58<asdaw>thanks wave, ill check out ratpoison
14:58<asdaw>any others you'd recommend
14:58<asdaw>plain old X ones?
14:59<versigtig>So, just to clarify, Xubuntu uses XFCE, but I won't be getting the same graphical overkill issues I get by using XFCE as long as it isn't through Xubuntu?
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15:01<versigtig>Just taking a look at tiling wm's I feel that I might be out of my depth somewhat in using that.
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15:02<MrFrood>versigtig: openbox & fluxbox are worth a look if you are after a "light" conventional WM - the big difference between the two is that fluxbox has a built in taskbar
15:03*MrFrood disclaime: I'm an avowed fan of Openbox
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15:04<versigtig>I would like to have a taskbar, yes.
15:04<koanhead>versigtig, you can d/l a netinst image from the same places as regular install images, it installs *only* software from repos over network, nothing from cd
15:05<versigtig>I'm reading that it is not recommended to do a netinst over wireless.
15:05<versigtig>And the laptop does not have ethernet.
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15:05<versigtig>Well, it does, but through a card... thing. ISBN card or something? I forget what it is called.
15:05<koanhead>xubuntu includes a lot of stuff which is not part of xfce, but xfce might still be a bit much for a lappy of that vintage
15:05*koanhead 2nds the nomination of openbox
15:05<versigtig>Yeah, that's what I'm thinking.
15:05<SynrG>nothing wrong with running openbox *plus* a taskbar, though
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15:06<versigtig>Did not know you could do that.
15:06<sney>that's nearly what lxde is
15:06<versigtig>So, I guess, openbox it is. I mean, this laptop is more a "I have no other computer at the moment" kind of thing.
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15:06<SynrG>LXDE adds lxpanel to openbox
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15:07<bullgard4>Is there an IRC channel to discuss Debian kernel problems?
15:08<MrFrood>LXDE adds a few more things than just the taskbar but it an easy option as it includes all the basic tools
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15:08<SynrG>you could run LXDE outright or just openbox + lxpanel … or some other standalone panel you like
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15:08<fervi>Jarek - working?
15:08<versigtig>So since openbox is just a wm I need to install it over a minimal Debian install: yes?
15:09<MrFrood>versigtig: yes
15:09<versigtig>Cool, okay.
15:09<versigtig>I'm gonna get to it, then. See if I can do a netinst over wireless.
15:09<versigtig>Or is that just, like, doomed for failure?
15:09<versigtig>The wireless part.
15:10<koanhead>no, it should be fine as long as you have proper firmware for the wireless card
15:10<MrFrood>versigtig: if you have never done a light wm setup from scratch LXDE could save you a lot of time & trouble
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15:10<SynrG>you need xorg too, of course
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15:10<koanhead>the installer will tell you if you run into such a problem
15:10<versigtig>Neat, okay.
15:11<versigtig>What Lubuntu uses, right?
15:11<blast007>!tell versigtig about firmware images
15:11<SynrG>you can strip it down if there are components you don't use.
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15:12<MrFrood>versigtig: I do the minimal install & then X & a wm approach - remeber after that you then have to add the helper programs that come as part of a DE such as a text editor etc - LXDE could well be a simpler option for you
15:12<carloses76>buenas tardes
15:12<versigtig>MrFrood: I think so. That sounds more my speed at the moment.
15:12<SynrG>e.g. i don't run pcmanfm (file manager) by default
15:12<carloses76>alguien me puede ayudar a configurar una carpeta compartida para trabajar en red
15:13<versigtig>So Minimal Install > LXDE > Openbox?
15:13<carloses76>estoy con canaima
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15:13<gesh>I'm getting multiple ClassNotFoundError using Java (OpenJDK) on a tomcat project. How do I fix this? It seems like I should change the classpath.
15:13<MrFrood>versigtig: iirc you can set LXDE to be the default desktop when you run the installer
15:14<versigtig>Ah, okay.
15:14<MrFrood>^^^ can anyone confirm?
15:14<carloses76>QUIEN SABE
15:14<koanhead>you can do that, but it will install *lots* of extra stuff iirc
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15:14<versigtig>Thanks for all your help everyone. Luckily I have this desktop I am using so if I run into any issues I will be... running back for help.
15:15<versigtig>See, I don't want extra stuff.
15:15<versigtig>I want the stuff I need.
15:15<koanhead>for the specific case I recommend just installing lxde-base and going from there
15:15<versigtig>Xubuntu has a bunch of crap I don't need.
15:15<SynrG>versigtig: LXDE is openbox + just a few other things, not all of which are strictly necessary if you want to remove them.
15:15<gesh>Any help with the classpath? It's driving me crazy.
15:16<versigtig>Ah, okay.
15:16<MrFrood>versigtig: if you do the minimal install do not forget to install X
15:16<versigtig>If nothing else this will be a good learning experience.
15:16<versigtig>I don't need this laptop running well today or anything.
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15:16<koanhead>you can install X *after* you do the install
15:17-!-birch [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:17<versigtig>So essentially I'm gonna try to do this minimal net install.
15:17<koanhead>after you log in to the new system you can install whatever you like via apt-get (assuming your network works)
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15:17<MrFrood>koanhead: that's what I meant as the WM's do not have X as a dependancy
15:17<kelsoo>I seem to rememeber you had a xfce4 and lxde install on the CD and could choose. If it still like that I do't know
15:17<versigtig>I have some experience with doing similar Arch on this specific laptop.
15:18<versigtig>*something similar setting up Arch
15:18<koanhead>MrFrood, I did not know that, I assumed that lxde-base would pull in X... that's good to know!
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15:19<versigtig>Okay. So, I can't do a netinst without putting in some bootable media.
15:19<koanhead>that's true
15:19<versigtig>Is it possible to partition the harddrive and boot from that partition to do a netinstall?
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15:19<versigtig>I don't have any burnable CDs at the moment.
15:19<koanhead>yes it is possible, I have done it but don't remember how
15:20<kelsoo>Seems like there are seperate CD's now inc net instal so as always many options
15:20<MrFrood>versigtig: usb stick?
15:20<versigtig>MrFrood: Non. Also, I would worry about this laptop having issues booting to a stick.
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15:20<versigtig>But maybe.
15:20<versigtig>I will just go get some CDs.
15:21<towo`>versigtig, how you would partion the harddrive, if you have not any bootable os?
15:21<versigtig>It is currently running xubuntu
15:21<versigtig>The laptop.
15:22<towo`>and you have non partitioned space on the drive?
15:22-!-stephan48 [] has joined #debian
15:22<versigtig>No, but I have a xubuntu install cd.
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15:22<versigtig>So I figured I could just reinstall and leave some unpartitioned space.
15:22<towo`>this would be possible
15:23<towo`>then you could bootstrap debian from xubuntu
15:23<versigtig>See, I've heard that term before, but don't know what it means: bootstrap, that is.
15:23<versigtig>I think I will just run to the store real quick and buy some CDs.
15:23<towo`>use the force luke, aka your favorite search engine
15:24<versigtig>And actually I'm going to have to learn how to do it as I just realized I don't have a CD burner available to me,.
15:25<versigtig>"That moment when you realize the thing you were planning on doing is more complicated than you thought when getting into it."
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15:28<Deeps>versigtig: you cant resize a disk you're actively using
15:28<Deeps>not safely, anyway
15:28<koanhead>suggestion: repartition disk, d/l netinst, unpack iso, copy rootfs to new partition, boot from ubuntu install disk with 'root=/dev/newpartition'
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15:29<Deeps>no cd burner, no usb sticks
15:29<Deeps>do you have another machine you can use?
15:29<versigtig>Final destination
15:29<versigtig>This one.
15:29<Deeps>2 machines
15:29<koanhead>uh, and do that stuff from the ubuntu live session, not the installed os
15:29<Deeps>the one you're using, and the one you want to install on?
15:29<versigtig>This one is running xubuntu.
15:29<versigtig>koanhead: right.
15:29<Deeps>do you have network cabling you can use to connect the two some how?
15:29<Deeps>if so, netboot! :)
15:30<versigtig>Laptop has no ethernet.
15:30<versigtig>Ha. Hahahaha.
15:30<Deeps>no usb, no cd, no ethernet
15:30<versigtig>Dude I know.
15:30<Ophidian_>versigtig: that's just a screen and a keyboard :)
15:30<Deeps>you could try a serial cable if you have one of them
15:30<Deeps>but that will be slooooow
15:30<Deeps>like, quicker to buy a usb stick
15:30<Deeps>..delivered from amazon..
15:30<versigtig>Yeah... I'll just do that think koanhead recommended.
15:30<koanhead>it's got wireless though, right?
15:30<Deeps>...on monday
15:30<versigtig>It does, yes.
15:31<Deeps>cant pxe boot over wifi i dont think
15:31<versigtig>I have so little funds at the moment a USB stick would send me over the edge.
15:31<versigtig>Ha. Ahaha.
15:31<koanhead>no, but he's got a bootable cd (ubuntu) already
15:31<versigtig>That I do.
15:31<Deeps>thats annoying. i have loads of 2-4gb usb sticks i have no use for
15:31<Deeps>ahhar, i missed that bit
15:31<versigtig>A usb stick ... delivered from Deeps ... on Monday.
15:31<koanhead>that's a live cd, or just install?
15:32<versigtig>It is the standard Xubuntu boot CD.
15:32<Deeps>does it boot to a desktop environment?
15:32<Deeps>or is it only an installer?
15:32<Deeps>you can do this \o/
15:32<koanhead>that makes it lots easier
15:32<versigtig>Thanks for the encouragement! I'm pretty sure I can.
15:32-!-bernat_ [] has joined #debian
15:32<versigtig>Wouldn't have been able to without y'alls help though; much appreciated~
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15:33<koanhead>how much ram does it have?
15:33<versigtig>I don't even know.
15:33<versigtig>Quick command line for that?
15:33<Deeps>free -m
15:34<koanhead>from terminal, do `free -m` and that will tell you
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15:34<versigtig>Total 1001
15:34<Deeps>1gb \o/
15:34<versigtig>It has a Centrino in it.
15:34<Deeps>ah, now i know why we use -m and not -g
15:34<Deeps>my box reports total: 1 with -g, even though it has 2gb of ram
15:34<versigtig>This laptop is hella old.
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15:35<versigtig>I just... I just want to program a RogueLike. Is that so much to ask, Laptop?
15:35<Deeps>you booted it using the xubunutu cd then?
15:35<versigtig>About to, yes.
15:36<versigtig>I feel like I wasted a lot of the past few years not using linux.
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15:36<Deeps>hate to say it, but you're probably right xD
15:36<versigtig>XD Yeah.
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15:36<versigtig>I mean, I can code. But I don't really know Linux all that well.
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15:37<Deeps>ever worked on a command line for anything?
15:37<Deeps>if you're comfortable with a command line, and google, you'll be comfortable in linux
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15:38<Deeps>i cannot state this enough though, you need to be able and willing and ready to put in a good chunk of the effort working stuff out on your own, or you'll soon get frustrated as irc support will be lacking
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15:38<versigtig>Generally that's been my go to: Google and figuring it out.
15:38<versigtig>I mean, that's essentially how I learned to code.
15:39<versigtig>But I just wanted a good short-cut on getting this laptop to a state in which I enjoy using it.
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15:39<versigtig>Deeps: Yes, on the command line.
15:39<versigtig>I am comfortable doing it.
15:39<Deeps>depressingly, if it's a desktop environment you're after, debian may not be that shortcut
15:39<versigtig>Well, debian I am comfortable with
15:39<versigtig>Baby steps
15:39<versigtig>*more comfortable with
15:40<koanhead>get good with bash, you'll never miss the desktop
15:40<versigtig>I've been trying to do that.
15:40<versigtig>By using it for everything.
15:40<versigtig>And just looking up the commands.
15:41<versigtig>It is actually a lot more satisfying and quicker.
15:41<versigtig>Feels good, man.
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15:43<versigtig>So, like, anyone looking forward to any of these Steam Machines coming out?
15:43<versigtig>Valve Steam, that is.
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15:43<koanhead>I'm looking forward to Valve browbeating nvidia into providing proper support for linux
15:44<versigtig>That would be cool, yeah.
15:44<versigtig>I mean, not an issue I've had in the past, but I imagine that is rather annoying.
15:44<versigtig>Are there only third party drivers for nVidia cards on linux?
15:44<koanhead>yes, it is
15:44<Deeps>nvidia releases binary blobs
15:45<Deeps>with varying degrees of success and compatability
15:45<koanhead>no, nvidia and amd both provide proprietary drivers
15:45<koanhead>the nouveau project has a soupcon of help from nvidia these days
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15:45<koanhead>the radeon project works pretty closely with amd i hear
15:45<versigtig>That's cool.
15:45<Deeps>i think there's been a lot of progress in open amd drivers in recently months
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15:45<MrFrood>versigtig: if installing the nvida drivers read the Debian wiki page before trying to install them
15:45<koanhead>phoronix agrees
15:46<versigtig>Too bad every ATI card I've ever had I've hated.
15:46<Deeps>as amd largely abandoned their xvba effort, i think
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15:46<versigtig>MrFrood: Not an issue. Yet, haha. Thanks though!
15:46<versigtig>I crossfired two Radeon 4870s a few years ago.
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15:47<versigtig>Ended up selling one because games ran better with higher framerates and better settings with just one card.
15:47<versigtig>And my room dropped 10 degrees in heat so that was nice.
15:47<MrFrood>versigtig: if you try following the instructions on the nvidia site you will end up in a world of huet :-|
15:47<versigtig>Mmm sounds like nVidia.
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15:48<versigtig>It'd be nice if AMDs drivers worked properly for every game, though.
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15:48<sney>somewhere, deep in the nvidia site, it actually says to use distro packages whenever possible
15:48<versigtig>Instead of constant specific driver fixes.
15:48<versigtig>*specific game driver fixes.
15:48<Deeps>heh, that might explain the month it took me to get nvidia hdmi output with audio working under squeeze
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15:50<versigtig>From a live cd I can format the HD and nothing bad will happen, right? The live cd runs off the CD and just uses memz, yes?
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15:50<koanhead>versigtig, that is correct
15:51<versigtig>kk, just checkin'
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15:51<koanhead>also, check out if you want to be one thousand three hundred thirtyseven
15:52<koanhead>it's a good thing you have 1gig ram on that lappy, things could get awkward otherwise
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16:06<versigtig>Linuxfromscratch, will do.
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16:13<versigtig>Quick question: I will need to find and have the drivers for the wireless card for my laptop available on the partitioned drive that has the debian install on it, right?
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16:14<MrFrood>versigtig: if you search around there is an install image that comes with the non-free drivers
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16:15<versigtig>Cool~ thanks.
16:15<koanhead>versigtig, yes, or otherwise the wireless won't work when you boot into the installed system
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16:16<SynrG>firmware, usually
16:16<sney>!firmware image
16:16<dpkg>Unofficial <netinst> images - containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages - for installing Debian 7 "Wheezy" are available from . See also <install guide>.
16:16<sney>who needs to search around
16:16<SynrG>not the same as drivers
16:17<sney>right. driver components
16:17<Natureshadow>We DO distribute that stuff ourselvs?
16:17<SynrG>non-free is not main
16:17<sney>it's distributed, yes. there's a bunch of that stuff in non-free
16:17<SynrG>it is still unofficial
16:18<sney>(non-free may or may not be currently in the process of moving to a domain as well)
16:18<petn-randall>I thought it's official, but unsupported.
16:18<sney>the ultimate goal is to not need any of it, but until then we have non-free.
16:19<Natureshadow>I know all that ... But it is hosted on Debian infrastructure, making Debian as a whole non-free in the views of the FSF, at least ;)
16:20<SynrG>petn-randall: other way around
16:21<SynrG>petn-randall: offering it in the non-free archives and accepting bug reports is support
16:21<SynrG>so is security updates …
16:21<versigtig>Wow that's awesome thanks sney~
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16:22<sney>Natureshadow: apparently is the solution, FSF considers it workable as far as I am aware
16:22<SynrG>also we do our best here on irc. but yes, non-free is otherwise a second classcitizen
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16:23<SynrG>nobody in Debian is compelled to support it
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16:24<Natureshadow>moreover, in most cases Debian just CANNOT support it in a reasonable way because it is closed
16:24<SynrG>yes, there is that
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16:27<frontier>Avalanche of discussion on the Debian CTTE mailing list and then nothing.
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16:28<frontier>I guess people got tired of arguing about the init system.
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16:29<ompaul>!init vote
16:29<dpkg>The technical committee will vote on the issue when they are ready to. If it happens before the freeze for Jessie they will announce it then; if they don't do that, then it stays as is until the following release. Further conversation on the subject is not welcome here, however please join #debian-offtopic for often animated conversations about this and other things. Tempus fugit, people!
16:29<petn-randall>Haha, nice.
16:29<frontier>thank you
16:30<frontier>I am interested in the vote but mostly I was wondering why the discussion had stopped.
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16:31<petn-randall>frontier: As said, head off to #debian-offtopic if you want to talk about it.
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16:31<frontier>I will follow up on #debian-offtopic as not to bother anyone, thank you.
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16:47<karnov>hello everyone, i'm lost with SSL ... Is it possible to have a client certificat with expiration date later than expiration date of the CA that issue it ?
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17:03<Megaf>Folks, that is a really annoying thing with Debian
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17:04<Megaf>If you do an install, using a cable network, when you reboot, all your networks confs are saved and working
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17:04<Megaf>but if you do using a wireless nic, it will totally forget your network configurations
17:05<Megaf>Now, how am I expected to ssh my newly installed debian server on wifi network?
17:05<Megaf>all IP and DNS and domain stuff were set up
17:05-!-Ophidian [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:05<Megaf>did I just lost my configuration?
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17:06<Megaf>hope this help me
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17:12<SamB>Megaf: servers on Wifi? WTH?
17:12<Megaf>home server
17:13<Megaf>it will server https only over wifi wpa2
17:13<SamB>don't you have some ethernet ports on your wireless router?
17:14<Megaf>tv + router1 + cable box + raspberry + pc + server1 + router2
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17:14<Megaf>+ testing computers
17:14<Megaf>a lot of cables already
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17:21<Megaf>Cool, my server is online on wifi!
17:21<Megaf>That's my first server that serves over wifi ever
17:22<Megaf>Debian documentation is really good
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17:24<Megaf>now I just need to migrate a couple of virtual server to this server
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17:50<versigtig>koanhead, r u thar
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17:51<dpkg>English as a language (and other uses) has plenty of background on wikipedia, however for #debian support, it's the primary and best supported language here. Please use other specific language channels (even if they're very idle), a related mailing list, or your best English here anyway (we'll try to cope).
17:52<versigtig>Okay, well, perhaps someone else can maybe help me: I just downloaded the debian netinst iso, unpackaged it, all on a Xubuntu live.
17:53<versigtig>I formatted my harddrive, and was told by koanhead the best way to do this would be to move the unpackaged iso onto the harddrive, and then run a command to use that to boot from and install.
17:53<versigtig>Sort of.
17:53<versigtig>And I forget how to look at logs in xChat, so maybe I should just ask how to do that.
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17:55<petn-randall>versigtig: unpackaged it? An ISO is a readonly filesystem, not a zip. If you want to install Debian, there are easier ways ...
17:55<versigtig>I know.
17:55<versigtig>Trust me, this is the only way.
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17:55<versigtig>No cd burner, no ethernet port, no usb flash drive.
17:55<themill>go buy a usb flash drive then?
17:56<versigtig>Woefully short on funds.
17:56<themill>I'll post you one to save us all the hassle...
17:56<versigtig>I'm learning!
17:56<versigtig>This is learning.
17:56<versigtig>At least.
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17:58<petn-randall>versigtig: So how did you boot the Xubuntu live image?
17:58<versigtig>Because I had one laying around.
17:58<versigtig>The only linux distro I have laying around.
17:58<petn-randall>versigtig: So it has a CD or DVD drive, but no burner?
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17:59<petn-randall>I don't know if you can use Ubuntu's debootstrap to install it. But if you've hardly touched Linux in your life, nobody will want to hold your hands through the several hours of hacking ... :/
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17:59<versigtig>From speaking with koanhead, it was a fairly simple command.
18:00<versigtig>Once I got this all done.
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18:00<versigtig>But yes, I have used Linux, but never USED Linux.
18:00<versigtig>If you catch my drift.
18:00<koanhead>I was telling him to make a root filesystem and then use kernel parameter `root=/dev/rootfilesystem`
18:00<SamB>I'm under the impression that it is so easy to debootstrap Debian from Ubuntu that you can do it by accident, simply by neglecting to change "stable" for the codename of the latest Ubuntu release?
18:01<versigtig>Hmm, yeah, I don't know what that means.
18:01<versigtig>You know what? I'll go buy a flash drive.
18:02<versigtig>Because I don't know how to do any of that. I know of a kernel I don't know what it is.
18:02<petn-randall>koanhead: If you went through all the headache to make the root filesystem ready, you can simply install grub and boot directly into your system.
18:02<themill> fwiw
18:03<petn-randall>versigtig: ^^^^ That would be the best howto for the task.
18:03<versigtig>Hell yeah~ awesome!
18:04<petn-randall>versigtig: Though, at your experience level it might be a steep learning curve ...
18:04<versigtig>That should be okay.
18:04<petn-randall>versigtig: If you get discouraged, just grab a CD for 50ct and let the neighbour burn it for you.
18:04<versigtig>I don't need this computer running immediately.
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18:05<petn-randall>versigtig: I'm just thinking that you might learn Debian faster with a running system ... ;)
18:05<versigtig>You are probably right.
18:05<versigtig>This laptop is 14 years old though.
18:05<versigtig>And this desktop is running Xubuntu.
18:05<versigtig>Which is why I'm doing all this.
18:05<petn-randall>versigtig: If it's Pentium or newer, it should boot.
18:06<versigtig>Right, it is currently (or was currently) running Xubuntu. The laptop that is.
18:06<versigtig>I just didn't like using it because it was really, really glitchy-esque slow.
18:07<versigtig>And from what I read any *buntu was going to run about like that.
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18:09<versigtig>And now time for work- thanks for all the info! Be back... later~
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18:24<Megaf>versigtig, dd if=debian.iso of=/dev/sda ?
18:24<Megaf>hes gone already
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19:11<dpkg>petn-randall: vedi
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19:50<leotech>good night great guys, i am trying use audio/video call under pidgin on wheezy but the button is gray and disabled qhat is wrong?
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19:54<leotech>any can help?
19:55<Megaf>because your friend isnt using a compatible client
19:55<leotech>ahh ok vry thx
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19:55<Megaf>no problem
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23:42<neo1691>I am trying to do a java rmi program on two debian machines in my computer lab. I have the root password. When I try to connect to server from client java gives this error. Connection refused. And telnet and ssh is also giving me the same errors if I try to connect
23:46<tuvshinjargal>help me: wine install error: Windows API implementation - 64-bit developer tools my OS: 3.2.0-4-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 3.2.51-1 x86_64 GNU/Linux
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---Logclosed Thu Jan 09 00:00:09 2014