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#debian IRC Logs for 2014-01-19

---Logopened Sun Jan 19 00:00:35 2014
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00:23<ION4S>Do you have any general debian talk channel?
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00:24<bdog7>ION4S, #debian-offtopic
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00:32<ION4S>bdog7: thx
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01:34<ION4S>changeminick: This is a Support Channel if u have a question just ask :)
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02:02<Fenhl>speaker-test does not produce any output, and when I try to play an mp3 via vlc over kde, I get a permission error. how do I fix this?
02:04<Fenhl>it worked yesterday (although the output volume was very low)
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02:47<an0m0ly>rather quiet
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02:57<Fenhl>there is a media device in my LAN which under Windows I would access using the Network window in Explorer, and it would open in Windows Media Player. what's the equivalent under debian?
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03:20<ION4S>Does anybody use conky here and can tell me where i can find theconfiguration file
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03:21<stderr_dk>/etc/conky/conky.conf and/or /etc/conky/conky_no_x11.conf according to apt-file.
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03:26<stderr_dk>ION4S: dpkg -S conky-std (if that package is already installed) apt-file show conky-std (if the package isn't already installed)
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03:26<ION4S>stderr_dk : Thanks :)
03:26<stderr_dk>No problem.
03:27<Fenhl>how do I configure fstab to mount an ntfs volume using ntfs-3g on boot?
03:27<ION4S>fenhl: etc/fstap
03:28<ION4S>fenhl: ithink
03:28<stderr_dk>Near the bottom of that page.
03:28<stderr_dk>fstab, not fstap.
03:28<ION4S>stderr_dk: srry
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03:35<RageRiot>hi again I'm back with more wine madness :P still failing to build on my server but I tried compiling it on my 32bit machine (I needed to patch a file) how would I move this compiled version to my server? via a .deb? or would I just move the source directory that compiled and run make install ?
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03:53<me>does anyone have any good suggestions on making debian more secure? any good tutorials or links you could point me to?
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03:54<me>maybe secure is the wrong wording... hardened?
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04:16<me>koanhead : thanks, I'm a bit of a n00b.... just recently ditched windows (for good) and have gone all in with debian.
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04:17<RageRiot>me ... me too :)
04:18<RageRiot>well 4 months ago I ditched windows
04:18<babilen>me: Please note that that manual is pretty old and might not reflect state-of-the-art approaches. It should also be noted that Debian, by default, is quite secure, but learning more about the system is certainly not a bad thing. I can whoeheartedly recommend to read
04:18<snogglethorpe>careful, windows might be lurking outside in the bushes
04:19*babilen heard they hide in walls
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04:19<me>i'm still suffering from windows paranoia... (ie. there must be a root kit on my computer because windows is doing such and such weird things...)
04:19<koanhead>Windows: ironically not transparent at all
04:19<ION4S>pc crash :D
04:21<me>now that i'm on debian, i'm thinking " nothing is going wrong with my works great... what's wrong..."
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04:23<me>do you guys run debian stable or testing?
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04:26<snogglethorpe>my impression is that more people run unstable than testing
04:27<me>why is that? wouldn't testing be a lot less buggy? what about from a security point of view?
04:27<koanhead>I run testing, but I've been debian-ing a while
04:27<koanhead>newbies should please run stable
04:27<koanhead>don't worry, there will still be bugs to report :^)
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04:30<me>so, here is something i am a little confused about... from what I can tell Iceweasel 17esr in wheezy will no longer be supported. So from a security point of view, how likely is it that new vulnerabilities will arise that could impact iceweasel 17?
04:30<babilen>me: Security support for testing is an afterthought and you would have to take care of pulling in packages from unstable every now and then. Some people susbscribe to the idea that testing isn't a "release" that people should run at all, but that it is simply a tool used by us to create the next stable release. I do not necessarily think so, but you cannot (IMHO) run it without paying attention to what is going on and without pulling stuff from ...
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04:30<babilen>... unstable.
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04:31<babilen>me: 24 ESR will become available soon
04:31<babilen>(for stable)
04:33<me>my hope was that enough bugs would have been worked out in 17 so that any new bugs would only affect new features added in later versions .... guess not eh?
04:33<RageRiot>ahh yes
04:33<Disconsented>Question about screen: Everytime I detach a session (C + A D) it seems to stay there but is inactive, am I doing somthing wrong?
04:33<RageRiot>oops wrong chan
04:33<babilen>me: Mozilla uses a bit of an insane versioning scheme, so don't think that 24 is such a massive jump
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04:36<me>i've tried a bunch of different lightweight browsers lately... the only one I like is links2. I wish there was a release of firefox/Iceweasel that was geared toward being ultralight and secure...
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04:37<me>secure by having a minimal attack surface etc...
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04:40<me>going back to my previous question... right now I'm on the testing release inside a VM, should I just go with unstable instead? I'm hoping the the VM will act as a protective sandbox for websurfing and such.
04:41<koanhead>me: I don't understand the question
04:41<koanhead>what would the advantage be in going to unstable?
04:41<me>stable vs. testing vs. unstable... would it be better to run unstable in the VM rather than testing?
04:41<me>the host is debian stable.
04:42<koanhead>no it would not
04:42<koanhead>if there is no reason to do so
04:42<me>i'm only asking because you said that most people prefer unstable over testing...
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04:43<koanhead>I did not say that, it was snogglethorpe
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04:45<koanhead>and my advice is to stick with stable unless you have a specific reason to go w/ testing or unstable
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04:46<snogglethorpe>me: the advantrage of unstable is that tends to be more up-to-date
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04:47<snogglethorpe>the disadvantage is that bugs can sometimes show up
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04:48<me>the only thing that really bugs me in stable is thunar the file manager I use in XFCE. It has a hard time managing external drives... in testing it works like a champ.
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04:49<snogglethorpe>me: if it's only a single app, it may be practical to just compile and install it yourself
04:49<snogglethorpe>[whethere that's hard to do tends to depend on the app]
04:49<me>what do you think about pinning thunar to the testing repo?
04:50<babilen>me: As I explained: It is perfectly fine to track testing. but you can't really do that securely (or at all if packages you use have been removed from testing) without pulling from unstable every now and then. See "/msg dpkg tum" for that setup and I also would recommend to read
04:50<babilen>me: Do *not* mix stable with anything but backports though.
04:51<babilen>me: You can use <backports> or create backports yourself by following <ssb>, but I am not sure how trivial that'll be for thunar. Either way: You can run testing, but you have to be aware of its idiosyncrasies and you also have to be able/willing to deal with problems that will, eventually, arise.
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04:57<me>babilen: so you're saying that I shouldn't try to pull iceweasel 24 from testing into wheezy...?
04:58<babilen>me: Yes, that is *exactly* what I am saying. Be patient, 24ESR will be uploaded to stable security very soon.
04:58<babilen>me: Or rather: Don't pull in anything but backports on stable.
04:59<me>so when i use apt-get to install/update programs, and I have the security repos listed in sources.conf will apt automatically grab the security release or do i need to pin it somehow?
05:01<Sylvester23>Hmm... Where's package linux-kbuild-3.11? This is request dep...
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05:05<babilen>me: You don't have to pin anything. My opinion is that if you have to pin that you are probably doing something you shouldn't do.
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05:13<me>I know you said that it's not recommended... but If I pull Iceweasel 24 from testing onto wheezy and everything "appears" to work fine... what are the issues that I am unaware of?
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05:25<me>Do you guys know why debian chose to go the iceweasel route rather than adopting the chromium-browser?
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05:29<bar7>help please
05:30<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on See <smart questions><errors>.
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05:30<bar7>i try to use external monitor with debian 7 and appears cloned
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05:31<bar7>how can i remove all nvidia installs and install only nouveau?
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05:32<bar7>dpkg --get-selections | grep nvidia | xargs sudo aptitude purge --assume-yes
05:32*dpkg selects bar7's pr0n collection
05:32<bar7>can i do that ?
05:32<me>i have the same issue
05:32<me>don't know how to extend my desktop to the second monitor
05:33<me>clone is the only option
05:33<bar7>yap me too
05:33<bar7>what is your graphic card?
05:33<bar7>mine is quadro k1100m
05:33<bar7>yes :S
05:33<me>mine's a laptop gtx310m i think...
05:33<bar7>i googleit and search for an help in #debian and doesn't found any :(
05:34<Sylvester23>startx say /usr/bin/X not found...
05:34<bar7>nobody helps noobs :D
05:35<me>Sylvester23: not sure what you mean, I don't usually need to use the startx command because I use Slim as a login manager.
05:35<Sylvester23>Where's package include _X_ binary
05:35<bar7>lspci -nn | grep VGA
05:35<bar7>00:02.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: Intel Corporation Haswell Integrated Graphics Controller [8086:0416] (rev 06)
05:35<bar7>01:00.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: NVIDIA Corporation Device [10de:0ff6] (rev ff)
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05:36<bar7>what is yours?
05:36<Sylvester23>bar7: optimus?
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05:38<me>VGA compatible controller [0300]: Nvidia Corporation GT216 [GT 330M] rev 2a
05:38<Sylvester23>Hmm... Noboy not know?
05:40<Sylvester23>Ech... BITCH PLEASE
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05:44<Sylvester23>startx running from root!
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05:44<bar7>Dragonwall:~# startx
05:44<bar7>:) and i'm tha noob :D
05:45<Apollo>Sylvester23: this is not a chat channel, if you have no questions or arent helping anyone, please refrain from talking
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05:47<Sylvester23>Apollo: ehh, ok...
05:51<me>so does anyone know why debian went with iceweasel over chromium-browser? Is iceweasel more secure?
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05:52<planetmaker>bar7, which driver do you use?
05:52<planetmaker>noveau or nvidia?
05:53<me>how can one tell which video driver they are currently using? command line ?
05:54<bar7>:S if i have installed nvidia :S
05:54<bar7>but settings can't run
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05:54<bar7>when i ty to use applet of nvidia tells me need to config by root
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05:55<bar7>nvidia-settings appears a window You do not appear to be using the NVIDIA X driver. Please edit your X configuration file (just run `nvidia-xconfig` as root), and restart the X server.
05:55<planetmaker>I use kde and have there nvidia x server settings
05:55<planetmaker>so you'll likely use noveau then :)
05:55<bar7>yap i think so :)
05:56<bar7>and when i attach the external monitor
05:56<bar7>appears the same screen of default laptop
05:56<planetmaker>sorry, dunno which options it offers. It didn't work for my card at all :(
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05:56<bar7>i'm searching on google and in #debian :S
05:56<me>i must be using noveau then...
05:57<bar7>noboody helps with that omg :S
05:57<planetmaker>(well 'not at all' is too strong in my case. But flickering every 3 seconds gives me fits after some time)
05:58<bar7>the definition of my default screen are ok but external monitor is cloned
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05:58<bar7>i move the xorg.conf to xorg.backup
05:58<bar7>and reboot
05:58<bar7>and startx doesn't start
05:59<bar7>then i move xorg.backup to xorg.conf and they start
05:59<bar7>dono how to solve that
05:59<bar7>i'm thinking remove all debian packages and install
05:59<bar7>but i'm afraid to run that
06:00<bar7>because i have an optimus card and i dono if is the correct way to solve
06:00<bar7>anyone can helps please
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06:01<caravel>bar7: I can't help you with optimus cards (no experience with those)
06:02<caravel>bar7: but generally about nvidia, from what you say,
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06:02<caravel>bar7: I wonder if you *do* run the nvidia module, but just haven't got it configured using the X driver
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06:03<caravel>that's distinct -- the kernel module must be installed and loaded, then the X driver must be installed and used (that's the bit about xorg.conf)
06:04<bar7>i think the issue is the configs of xorg.conf
06:04<bar7>but i have other laptop with nvidia and they don't have xorg.conf
06:05<caravel>you don't need xorg.conf if you run nouveau
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06:05<bar7>and how i check if that nouveau is correctly installed?
06:05<caravel>and I think you do need an xorg.conf (well, not a full one but just a section) to point to the nvidia module
06:05<caravel>both won't work at once iirc
06:06<bar7>this is my xorg.conf
06:06<caravel>lspci -vvv -s X:XX.X <-- that'll show you what module is used
06:07<caravel>(where XXXX is the device string you can see in basic lspci output)
06:07<caravel>(you don't need so many vvvv, but it'll show you it all ;-)
06:08<bar7>lspci -vvv -s X:XX.X
06:08<bar7>lspci: -s: Invalid bus number
06:08<caravel>from what you wrote here earlier, use 01:00.0 instead
06:09<bar7>sudo lspci -vvv -s 01:00.0
06:09<bar7>01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: NVIDIA Corporation Device 0ff6 (rev ff) (prog-if ff)
06:09<bar7> !!! Unknown header type 7f
06:09<bar7>lspci -vvv -s 01:00.0
06:09<bar7>01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: NVIDIA Corporation Device 0ff6 (rev ff) (prog-if ff)
06:09<bar7> !!! Unknown header type 7f
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06:10<caravel>bar7: do NOT paste it all in here...
06:10<caravel>use a pastebin for this
06:10<bar7>only few lines but ok
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06:11<caravel>really? -vvv would give me a good 25 lines I think
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06:11<caravel>`lspci -vvv -s 01:00.0 | wc -l` => 43 :D
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06:12<bar7>mine 3 lines
06:12<caravel>Kernel driver in use: nvidia
06:12<caravel>Kernel modules: nvidia, nouveau
06:12<caravel>and ^^^ are my last 2
06:13<bar7>nothing where :S
06:14<caravel>well, I won't be able to help you further, like I said above cf. optimus/that particular card (but be patient, others will surely do, and much better than me -- I'm just a user)
06:15<caravel>what does the -vvv say on that card?
06:15<caravel>only the "Unknown header type" message¿
06:16<bar7>and let me check lspci -vvv | grep VGA*
06:18<caravel>how the hell can you get more with grep than without it? :D
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06:18<caravel>are you sure you did spell the previous command correctly?
06:18<caravel>try copying and pasting my command above
06:18<babilen>bar7, caravel: If you simply want the module a "lspci -knn|grep -A2 -i "vga"" might do the trick
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06:19<babilen>But then it probably makes more sense to look at /var/log/Xorg.0.log for GPU related information
06:19<caravel>sure -- I assume it'd help to see more, babilen :)
06:20<caravel>give it more than 2 then :)
06:21*caravel would better let babilen drive this, bar7 will much benefit :)
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06:22<bar7>the xorg.0.log
06:22<caravel>that's your XOrg.0.log
06:22<caravel>oh, one last thing from me -- I think your xorg.conf is the largest I've ever seen :D
06:22<caravel>I haven't "seen 'em'all" of course, I assume, but I suspect you would have some chances to win the prize :)
06:22<caravel>how was it generated?
06:22<bar7>dono :D
06:22<bar7>appears by default
06:22<babilen>bar7: I'll have to leave, but it looks as if you want to learn about: + (assuming you are using Optimus hardware) and dual screen setups can be configured with something like if Xorg doesn't get it right to begin with.
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06:24<babilen>bar7: You would save the latter in a file in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d names, for example, 20-dual-screen.conf (name doesn't matter as long as it ends in .conf) -- See <nvidia> <bumblebee> <empty xorg.conf> <xorg.conf.d> and <intel-gfx> for further details (ask our but with, for example, /msg dpkg intel-gfx)
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06:28<bar7>babilen i made steps Version 304.88 of
06:28<bar7>and wheezy i386
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06:29<babilen>Sorry for not walking you through this, but it looks as if the articles/buzzwords I mentioned above should get you there. I don't have extensive experience with bumblebee, but it essentially means that you use intel by default and then nvidia for "demanding" tasks. Use a empty xorg.conf (i.e. don't use one) and embrace /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d -- I would also make sure that you have firmware-linux-nonfree and firmware-linux-free (or just install the ...
06:29<babilen>... firmware-linux package) from <non-free> installed as well as a suitable microcode package for your CPU (i.e. intel-microcode or amd64-microcode)
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06:30<bar7>i have the 20-nvidia.conf
06:30<bar7>in xorg.conf.d
06:31<babilen>bar7: I would also recommend to get the nvidia driver from <wheezy-backports> (i.e. enable it as detailed on (but make sure it ends in "main contrib nonfree") and the install the newer versions with "aptitude -t wheezy-backports install ..." -- Those drivers have, AFAIK, better support for bumblebee. Unfortunately I don't have extensive experience with that hardware and am not entirely sure how the ...
06:31<bar7>only that
06:31<babilen>... NvidiaGraphicsDriver setup fits together with the Bumblebee one
06:31<babilen>Okay, sounds as if you did reasonable things so far. (just saw that you have problems and thought I'll drown you in links before heading off)
06:31<bar7>i did instlal from wheezy backpors
06:32<babilen>ah ..
06:32<babilen>And you rebooted and installed the firmware packages and all that?
06:32<bar7>not showre i have firmware packages installed correctly
06:32<babilen>bar7: Mind you, I don't think that you actually configure the system to use nvidia by default, but that you use Intel graphics and then only make use of (what was it?) optirun (or so) to start things on the NVIDIA GPU
06:33<babilen>But that is more of a guess than actual knowledge :-/
06:33<bar7>yap when runn optirun appears weels images and thats ok
06:33<bar7>only the problem is cloned screen
06:34<bar7>i'm think is i need to create an config in xorg to use intel to external
06:34<bar7>dono if is correct
06:34<bar7>but when you tell me i need only to have xorg.conf.d files
06:35<babilen>I demonstrated a suitable config before, but that being said: You can always play around with "xrandr" directly to configure dual screen setups
06:35<bar7>i only have one files with nvidia
06:35<bar7>xrandr: Failed to get size of gamma for output default
06:35<bar7>Screen 0: minimum 1920 x 1080, current 1920 x 1080, maximum 1920 x 1080
06:35<bar7>default connected 1920x1080+0+0 0mm x 0mm
06:35<bar7> 1920x1080 0.0*
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06:35<xeon-enouf>my goodness, why would upgrading "iotop" remove "apt-file"? ... #don't answer
06:35<babilen>bar7: I don't think that you do need the /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/*-nvidia.conf either (Read "Warning: If you choose to install bumblebee-nvidia and the dependent nvidia driver packages, during postins ..." on the Bumblebee wiki page
06:36<babilen>xeon-enouf: Why would it indeed?
06:36<xeon-enouf>babilen: it's insane
06:36<babilen>dpkg: tell xeon-enouf -about bat
06:36*caravel no, it's fun! :) afk
06:37<babilen>But then I have to run now, all the best bar7 (and sorry for not having unlimited time right now)
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06:37<bar7>no problem
06:37<xeon-enouf>dpkg: tell babilen that i have too many windows open in irssi to even notice that new one highlighted
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06:37<bar7>thanks for your kindness
06:39<babilen>xeon-enouf: Well, actual command output + apt-cache policy output (alone and for packages in question) + sources.list and anything else you deem relevant on a pastebin would allow people in here to actually debug what's going on
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06:39*babilen waves
06:39<bar7>hey i have to xorg.conf.nouveu and nvidia in /etc/bumblebee
06:39<xeon-enouf> #want a good chuckle?
06:40<xeon-enouf>babilen: don't even try -- it's ok -- i'll fix it ;-) .. i just wanted to complain a bit; but the insanity is really intrinsic, so it seems
06:41<xeon-enouf>bar7: are you aware an ##ibmthinkpad channel exists here? very useful too
06:41<themill>xeon-enouf: by the time you're mixing lenny (or even etch) and wheezy, you get what you get.
06:41<xeon-enouf>themill: bastage! :-P
06:42<xeon-enouf>themill: and btw.,..... why am i not credited at all for the !myram factoid? (just curious)
06:42<themill>why should you be? and how would I know?
06:42<bar7>i mess my debian if i install xorg-dev?
06:42<babilen>xeon-enouf: You have some fancy/broken setup there and there really is no point in debugging this without even seeing your actual command, "apt-cache policy" output and that of "apt-cache policy apt-file" a "apt-get install apt-file" run might also be interesting. But then it looks as if you mix releases in funky ways and there is therefore no point in debugging this anyway.
06:42<xeon-enouf>themill: um.. i made the original
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06:43<babilen>so, now ..
06:43<themill>and who cares?
06:43<xeon-enouf>babilen: as i said; don't even try -- i appreciate your attempt to help
06:43<xeon-enouf>themill: why be so rude?
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06:44<bar7>i never see babilen rude... and they have too mutch time to help and the try
06:45<babilen>xeon-enouf: Lets stop this right here -- we wouldn't be able to provide any support if we were constantly praising all the people who wrote a a factoid and we have better things to do than continuing this. So, lets focus on your problem/setup and it would be great if you could provide the actual output of the requested commands.
06:45<xeon-enouf>babilen: btw; i concur with your 'not-worth-debugging-assessment' .. just that; Debian has been notorious for cross-pollenating and contaminating totally unrelated pkgs.. and i have no idea why ...
06:45<xeon-enouf>babilen: i can fix my own problems with debian, thanks
06:46<xeon-enouf>i never said babilen was rude!
06:46<babilen>So, why ask/whine then?
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06:46<xeon-enouf>what .. did i walk into the twilight zone?
06:46<bar7>xeon-enouf you can help with my optimus card?
06:46<babilen>Anyway, lets move on. (please)
06:46<xeon-enouf>babilen: the over-arching issue is laid out above
06:46<xeon-enouf>babilen: i wish; but no - sadly
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06:46<xeon-enouf>er bar7 ^
06:46<xeon-enouf>not babilen
06:46<babilen>xeon-enouf: There is no "over arching" issue. You seem to run a funky (aka "completely unsupported") setup. I am not surprised that "it doesn't work"
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06:47<xeon-enouf>babilen: ok, done
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06:49<xeon-enouf>now .. can i please be mentioned for the !myram factoid? I personally do not like the use of the utf-8 chars of <<>> ... but so be it, if it works better for everyone; however... i wrote the original, and what still remains (and actually, might be quite out-dated at this time; no problem if it is...), so please give credit
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06:50<babilen>xeon-enouf: Mentioned where?
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06:51<xeon-enouf> babilen
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06:52<xeon-enouf>wow .. your panties truly are in a bunch sweetie
06:52-!-mode/#debian [+o babilen] by ChanServ
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06:53-!-mode/#debian [-o babilen] by babilen
06:53<themill>xeon-enouf: if you want that, please ask dondelelcaro to edit the database to reflect that information. I can't imagine anyone is going to care.
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06:53<themill>He does, perhaps, have more useful things he can do for Debian.
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06:54<babilen>xeon-enouf: enough of that - please keep it family friendly in here and focusing on random things or mentioning underwear in here doesn't help anybody. If you really care that much about it try to invest your time to talk to dondelelcaro, but I would consider that a bad use of both your and don's time.
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07:01<txomon>hi, I have been experiencing two problems with the debian stable kernel
07:01<txomon>the first one, is that resume failed completelly
07:01<txomon>so I went backports
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07:03<txomon>well, it didn't really failed completely, the problem came that the cpu governor went crazy and put my i5 to a PIV with 4 cores to 1.2GHz
07:04<txomon>it was due to the battery level
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07:12<Naturesh1dow>Is there a dedicated channel for Debian python app packaching?
07:12<Naturesh1dow>I do not find one ...
07:13<themill>Naturesh1dow: #debian-python
07:14<Naturesh1dow>And now why isn't that returned in /list *python ?
07:14<abrotman>hidden channel perhaps
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07:24<xeon-enouf>themill: is that channel on here (#freenode), or, on
07:24<xeon-enouf>Naturesh1dow: try /msg alis list *channel-name*
07:24*themill thinks xeon-enouf is very loset
07:24<Naturesh1dow>Oh, that exists on OFTC?
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07:25<xeon-enouf>themill: the #debian-python channel
07:25<xeon-enouf>Naturesh1dow: no idea, that's why i ask ;-)
07:25<themill>what about it?
07:25<gaaaaa>problem dual booting windows8 and ubuntu 12.04
07:25<themill>gaaaaa: I'm guessing you want #ubuntu on
07:26<xeon-enouf>Naturesh1dow: debian *proper channels exist on ; there are tons of channels there -specifif
07:26<gaaaaa>themill cudnt get u
07:26<themill>!ubuntuirc gaaaaa
07:26<dpkg>gaaaaa: This is not the Ubuntu help channel. Please do /server and then /join #ubuntu. If you are using XChat, you can right-click the following link and choose connect. irc://
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08:09<xeon-enouf>welcome to the luau ;-)
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09:16<asdaw>hi, on wheezy, when i listen to music through the headphone jack, after about 30 seconds the sound output automatically changes to the laptop speakers
09:17<asdaw>you can see how this is inconvenient/dangerous :) any tips?
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10:19<color_fish>theres not much activity here is there?
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10:20<planetmaker>it's a help and support channel. Not a chat channel
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10:34<MrFrood>color_fish: activity varies during the course of the day however it might be worth noting that #debian on the freenode irc server tends to be busier
10:34*MrFrood shuts up before he is accused of not being on topic
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10:44<dvs>!topicsmite MrFrood
10:44<dpkg>And the wrath of /TOPIC descended with terrible fury upon MrFrood. And all the people marveled, saying, Behold, we too should read the /TOPIC, lest we be stricken. And all the people read the /TOPIC, and went away edified.
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10:46*MrFrood *giggles*
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10:55<ompaul>dvs: bot abuse is frowned up
10:56*ompaul winks at MrFrood
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10:56*dvs gasps
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10:56<ompaul>dpkg: tell color_fish -about ask
10:56*MrFrood tries to look coy
10:57<ompaul>that has got to hurt
10:57*MrFrood heads to offtopic
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12:34<patrik>Hi, I have to run a service under specific user, so I edited init script by adding su - $USER -c command , but it still says it needs root privillegues to be run. What am I doing wrong ? Thank you
12:34-!-hatducks [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:35<patrik>also it is executable by anybody, owner, group and others as well.
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12:44<patrik>nobody has any hint ?
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12:50<fcrs>patrik: you still need to be root in order to run "su - $USER", you might want to look at sudo
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12:50<ledufakademy>do you take a look to init.d apache script ?
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12:53<patrik>fcrs: i am trying to restart service which is meant to be run as a specific user, but i am still logged in as root while doing so.
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12:54<fcrs>that's OK, with "su -USER" it *will* run as that user, but you still have to be root to start it
12:55<patrik>fcrs: well, my fault i guess. I am root now and if i try to start it it says that this script requires root privileges.
12:55<ledufakademy>hi fcrs, i think he can launch daemon with proper user : for example apache2 service is running with www-data.
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12:56<fcrs>yeah, it should already be setup to run as www-data even though the init scripts are run from root
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13:03<ledufakademy>start-stop-daemon with proper user
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13:14<Radon_3>hi everyone, can I ask a question about this channel?
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13:16<planetmaker>don't ask to ask, just ask
13:16<Radon_3>ok, what is the difference between this channel and the one on freenode?
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13:16<planetmaker>this is the one linked on debian website afaik
13:17<Radon_3>which one is 'more' recommended?
13:17<Radon_3>for getting support I mean?
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13:18<planetmaker>I would assume this one
13:18<Radon_3>happy that I found it <3
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13:18<planetmaker>but doesn't hurt to try either
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13:20<Radon_3>well, I have been to the one on freenode and not much support, though there are like 5000 people there... But I am probably going to use this one from now on, cause it seems a lil bit more official
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13:20<planetmaker>it only matters that you get the help you need - official or not
13:20<planetmaker>can be pretty silent here, too
13:20<Radon_3>point taken
13:21<planetmaker>generally it helps to bring some time an patience when being on IRC :)
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13:23<Radon_3>I get what you mean, ok I have a debi question: If I install debian using normal graphical installation, and let's say everything goes right, will I need to change the default settings of iptables before browsing the web? or debian is secure already for browsing the web and going on IRC?
13:24<LeDufaKaDemY>i think is enough secure.
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13:24<planetmaker>defaults should be fine
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13:24<LeDufaKaDemY>if you want more security, you need to practice "hardening"
13:25<Radon_3>would it probably hurt if I use something like fwbuilder?
13:25<Radon_3>to manage iptables?
13:25<Radon_3>or I am risking messing it up?
13:25<planetmaker>I run fridufirewall on my server
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13:26<Radon_3>mine is going to be a home simple desktop... :)
13:26<LeDufaKaDemY>oups, firewall builder for desktop ... hum too much lord !
13:26<planetmaker>on your home machine I doubt you need anything there
13:26<Radon_3>why not?
13:26<Radon_3>yes, why?
13:27<planetmaker>you have no services running, so packages would not reach anything anyway
13:27<LeDufaKaDemY>if you want security , take an old computer with two nic and install ipcop or pfsense
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13:28<LeDufaKaDemY>... and you can put this computer between you and your dsl box or modem ?
13:28<Radon_3>LeDufaKaDemY: I know about that but I don't want to pay extra for electricity, cause I believe so much in debian, so I want it to manage itself as much as possible, this is not a banking server after all
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13:29<planetmaker>Radon_3, it doesn't hurt, if you add additional iptable rules by means you like
13:29<Radon_3>but what you are talking about, to me, would be like the king of security systems, when coupled with a tiny honeypot too
13:29<Radon_3>planetmaker: thanks man
13:29<planetmaker>But you add work which is not necessary for desktops
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13:30<Radon_3>thanks a lot, also I'm experiencing some sort of problem with display on debian, cause I'm using nvidia gforce fx 5500
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13:30<Radon_3>can't get the driver to work like it does on windows, which is frustrating
13:30<planetmaker>I had to install the nvidia driver to get my nvidia card work
13:31<planetmaker>default is noveau
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13:31<Radon_3>i don't know what is the issue, but it just doesn't work right for me, my monitor is 16:9 and I get 4:3 output all the time, if not low resolution
13:32<Radon_3>like 800X600
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13:33<Radon_3>but still, I don't know how to tell you about how much love I have experienced since the moment I got debian running on my system, I can't find the adjective for my emotion towards debian... It's so good
13:34<planetmaker>hehe :)
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13:38<Radon_3>see you folks later... <3
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13:40<spstarr>to add to this: (systemd vs upstart / OpenRC) ...
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13:41<spstarr>Linux is going to evolve faster then BSD or HURD, as Linux diverges more and more... cgroups etc.. you will come to a point of having to make tough decisions
13:41<spstarr>either people forget Linux != UNIX and never will be
13:41<spstarr>OpenRC doesnt support cgroups does it...
13:41<Longkong>I have a question: I did a badblocks scan on a harddrive but forgot the -v option. Is there any way to display the error count without rechecking everything?
13:41<spstarr>as we add kdbus and more things its clear to me the non-Linux ports of Debian are going to suffer regardless of systemd or upstart
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13:48<spstarr>Another thing is Ubuntu's Upstart != DFSG the CLA violates Debian's core principals
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13:50<chealer>spstarr: this channel's topic is Debian support
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13:59<nickee>test irc (sorry)
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14:03<chrishell>is there a document how to test wayland under debian sid?
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14:06<sakax>hello - all kernel messages being shown after grub launched... how do we call this?
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14:09<musca>test finally failed, no more test cycles needed.
14:13<Molly83>Hello, I would like to install Debian from an USB stick on a Compaq netbook
14:14<Molly83>I launched sudo unetbootin, downloading Debian from it
14:14<Molly83>I would like to know how to install it on the netboot
14:14<Molly83>I would like to know how to install it on the netbook
14:15<dpkg>UNetbootin (Universal Netboot Installer) allows creation of bootable USB drives for a variety of Linux distributions. Not recommended for use with Debian CD/DVD images, as it mangles the installer in cruel and unusual ways, resulting in hard to debug problems. Ask me about <hybrid images>, <usb install>, <win32diskimager>.
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14:16<ompaul>Molly83: I guess you don't use unetbootin for starters
14:16<Molly83>I just downloaded via apt-get
14:17<ompaul>Molly83: it breaks debian installers
14:17<ompaul>Molly83: how clear does one have to be
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14:17<ompaul>Molly83: have you a linux system?
14:17-!-twb [] has joined #debian
14:18<Molly83>yes, I am using Debian right now
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14:18<LeDufaKaDemY>and your right molly83 ;-)
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14:27<ompaul>Molly83: also don't use the testing image for an install, it may or may not work, it is there to test the installer not provide a way of booting testing, assume you have a stable netinstall cd called debian7.iso you would cat debian7.iso > /dev/sdb (assuming your letter b is your usb stick) then you boot off that
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14:27<ompaul>Molly83: so many complaints about unetbootin and debian we have the bot with a factoid ... so there you go
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14:28<Molly83>I would like to install debian using a live usb
14:29<Molly83>without a cd
14:29<Molly83>my plan was (but I am not sure it makes sense)
14:30<ompaul>Molly83: I told you how to create a cd - you can change the name of the device and the image you download
14:31<Molly83>a) download an iso file of stable debian; b) make a live usb via unetbootin; c) modify the boot order of the laptop; d) boot from usb
14:31<ompaul>b) NO
14:31<Molly83>the problem is that i do not have a cd hardrive
14:32<ompaul>b) is cat debian-live.iso > /dev/sdb (or whatever letter your stick is in)
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14:32<Molly83>SO you mean I must have a cd, correct?
14:33<ompaul>said that
14:33<ompaul>Molly83: sdb is your usb stick
14:33<ompaul>Molly83: where b may be the usb involved or something else you have to adjust it for your setup
14:34<Molly83>Yes, mine is called sdb1
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14:35<ompaul>Molly83: you don't use b1 you use
14:35<sakax>Molly83: the wiki explains it very easily
14:35<Molly83>ok, thanks
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14:36<ompaul>all over complex when cat imagefile.iso > /dev/sdb works
14:37<sakax>how is it more complex than dd if=<file> of=<device> bs=4M; sync ?
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14:38<ompaul>you have equals you have a blockdevice I have a useless use of cat
14:38<ompaul>with one redirect
14:38<ompaul>filename is used once
14:38<ompaul>sync is not needed
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14:39<sakax>i believe you but why do we include different instructions in the official FAQ which is the first place where n00bs like me look for info? :)
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14:40<ompaul>sakax: because you can edit "a quick start guide"
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14:40<ompaul>the wiki is never immutable it just claims to be
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14:49<Molly83>Ok, thanks everybody for the moment, bye
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14:49-!-rhagu is "rhagu" on #debian #debian-de #
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14:51<rhagu>Hi, I have some spare cpu power /ram /disk -space and would like to set up a honeypot for my home network with a debian vm, what would be the easiest solution? (other network members: OS X, Win 7, Ubuntu, Debian) Any experiences, ideas ...
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14:55<dpkg>[ids] Intrusion Detection System. For host-based IDS examples, ask me about <aide>, <ossec>, <samhain>, <tripwire>. For network IDS examples, ask me about <snort>.
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15:01<infinity0>weasel: the guest account you created for me, was that for DM purposes or buildd-access purposes?
15:02<infinity0>it says "we expect you not to use", i'm wondering if that changes now that i am a DM
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15:13<micechal>could you help me choosing unneeded services and processes?
15:13<micechal>I only need nginx to serve static content
15:13<micechal>it uses some php though
15:14<micechal>the system's got only 128 mb of ram so I want to remove all unneccesary software
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15:21<asdaw>this is a good question from micechal ^ can anyone advise?
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15:22<micechal>I'm already removing samba
15:22<LeDufaKaDemY>do you check with chkconfig --list ?
15:23<micechal>no, should I?
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15:23<LeDufaKaDemY>i also suggest you htop in order to have the process tree
15:23<micechal>chkconfig: command not found
15:23<asdaw>doesnt exist on wheezy
15:23<micechal>the same goes to htop
15:23<LeDufaKaDemY>yes this tool list all services, with their runlevel 1-2-3-4-5-6 (en service state on/off)
15:23<micechal>I've got top installed
15:24<LeDufaKaDemY>apt-get install chkconfig
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15:24<asdaw>htop is better micechal, clickable areas
15:25<LeDufaKaDemY>(oups) perhaps micechal only want free software (non free or contrib banned ?)
15:25<micechal>that's not the point really
15:25<micechal>top was there by default
15:26<asdaw>he has efficiency in mind because of the minimalist hardware he's using
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15:26<micechal>850 mhz single core
15:26<asdaw>and wants to disable any unwanted services
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15:28<micechal>what's that plymouth thing?
15:28-!-rik__ [~rik@2a02:1810:a086:b100:d99d:bb74:b67d:edad] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
15:28<oldlaptop>micechal: this is an ubuntu system I'm guessing?
15:28-!-abadd [] has quit []
15:28<micechal>it's debian
15:29<oldlaptop>huh, you installed upstart then?
15:29<micechal>I did not
15:29<micechal>that came preinstalled with my vps
15:29<oldlaptop>huh, wonder what PID 88 and 193 in your earlier pastebin are
15:29<micechal>the same as Apache2
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15:29<oldlaptop>plymouth is a splashscreen thing
15:29<oldlaptop>it has no business existing on anything headless, for obvious reasons
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15:30<micechal>so I can safely remove it?
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15:31<oldlaptop>although I will say that there's no real pressing need to *uninstall* things unless you're ALSO disk-constrained :P
15:31<micechal>10 GB of disk space
15:31<micechal>apt-get purge plymouth* <- like this?
15:31<oldlaptop>so you're not horribly disk-constrained :)
15:32*oldlaptop advocates the use of aptitude though
15:32<oldlaptop>you gain logging at least
15:32<micechal>1917 kB less
15:32<micechal>-bash: aptitude: command not found
15:32<LeDufaKaDemY>suggest you to clean services / daemon not package.(unless for security reason)
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15:33<oldlaptop>yep, this sure sounds like an ubuntu system
15:33<micechal>maybe it is
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15:33<micechal>what if I chose wrong template by mistake?
15:33<oldlaptop>debian (as far as I know) has aptitude installed by default, generally
15:33<oldlaptop>ubuntu doesn't
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15:34<oldlaptop>micechal: that could be
15:34<oldlaptop>(wrong template that is)
15:34<micechal>PRETTY_NAME="Debian GNU/Linux 7 (wheezy)"
15:34<oldlaptop>very strange
15:35<oldlaptop>maybe the VPS provider just doesn't like aptitude:P
15:35<oldlaptop>aaaanyhow, apt-get certainly works
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15:35<oldlaptop>it just does less (no logging, etc)
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15:35<micechal>I'll now get rid of that upstart thing
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15:36<sney>VPS debian installs always have some weird customizations
15:36<micechal>I hate mine provider
15:36<micechal>mainly for apache2
15:36<micechal>nginx is so much better
15:36<micechal>especially with 128 mb ram
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15:36<oldlaptop>who needs editor wars when we can have httpd wars?! :D
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15:37<asdaw>is it secure out of the box though
15:37<asdaw>lol oldlaptop
15:37<micechal>it's not war, it's facts
15:37<asdaw>everybody knows IIS6 is the way forward
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15:38<LeDufaKaDemY>i'm searching a software : gnu equivalent to skype server (old messernger) for visio conferencing ?
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15:38<oldlaptop>on nginx secure-by-default-ness: I am by no means an expert on this kind of thing, but AFAIK openbsd is moving towards replacing apache with nginx in their base system
15:39<asdaw>thats significant then
15:39<oldlaptop>so it must be at least securable
15:39<oldlaptop>they're not above patching the hell out of things though
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15:41<micechal>I think I'll leave upstart
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15:41<oldlaptop>dependency hell?
15:41<micechal>since I use it to manage services
15:41<micechal>I do "service php5-fpm restart"
15:41<micechal>I guess that command comes from upstart
15:41<oldlaptop>that exists on this sysvinit system
15:42<oldlaptop>though it may well descend from upstart
15:42<micechal>what about this?
15:42<oldlaptop>it's not that much harder to say /etc/init.d/php5-fpm restart
15:43<micechal>I don't need x11 at all
15:43<oldlaptop>michel: X client libs probably
15:43<micechal>X is for windows management, right?
15:43<micechal>I only use putty
15:43<oldlaptop>not *quite* that simple
15:43<oldlaptop>an X server provides (the underpinnings of) a GUI environment
15:44<oldlaptop>X11 libs provide what is necessary for GUI applications to *run*
15:44*asdaw is learning
15:44<oldlaptop>you can run X11 clients on a completely headless machine and have them display on some other machine over the network
15:45<micechal>so I should leave it
15:45<LeDufaKaDemY>yep oldlatop : it'sa call x forwarding
15:45<oldlaptop>e.g. I can 'ssh -X me@headlessbox' and then proceed to open an xterm running on mybox, but displaying wherever I launched the ssh session from
15:45<oldlaptop>LeDufaKaDemY: yes
15:45<oldlaptop>I think PuTTY can do a similar thing (although I would imagine it needs some other stuff to work on windows)
15:45<oldlaptop>micechal: it's probably not using much disk at all
15:46<oldlaptop>and does absolutely nothing unless you actually run an X client
15:46<oldlaptop>(X client == X (GUI) application)
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15:46<micechal>then maybe I could remove sudo? (I know I shouldn't but I do everything as root)
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15:47<micechal>it's just easier
15:47*oldlaptop never liked sudo anyhow
15:47<oldlaptop>you still shouldn't do *everything* as root, mind you
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15:47<micechal>I just hate setting everything as permissions or other crap
15:48<micechal>root just runs everything
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15:48<oldlaptop>and that's the rub
15:50<micechal>I think I'll leave all the others
15:50<micechal>since they seem to be needed
15:50<micechal>thanks for the help :)
15:50<oldlaptop>judging from that first pastebin you posted, that is pretty minimal
15:51<micechal>I can always reboot when the ram is getting cluttered up
15:51<oldlaptop>you *might* be able to get away without an MTA, but that's not as superflous as it might sound
15:51<oldlaptop>there's a few important things you will get notified about by local mails to root
15:51<micechal>I like to receive these pseudo-emails from cron
15:51<oldlaptop>(or to your normal user, depending on how things are set up_
15:51<oldlaptop>yes, that kind of thing
15:52<micechal>I can see whether my script works properly
15:52-!-frangor [] has quit [Quit: Me'n vaig]
15:52<oldlaptop>sendmail is also probably one of the more low-RAM MTAs?
15:52<oldlaptop>haven't ever looked into that
15:54-!-screenn [~screen@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:54<micechal>what about syslauthd?
15:54<cae>what's the default DM if the installer installs a XFCE Wheezy instance?
15:55-!-LeDufaKaDemY [] has joined #debian
15:56<oldlaptop>I seem to remember it using xdm, but that was a long time ago...
15:56<oldlaptop>task-xfce-desktop uses lightdm here
15:56<oldlaptop>but this is a testing system
15:57<oldlaptop>yeah, lightdm on wheezy too
15:58-!-[_aeris_] is now known as _aeris_
15:58<oldlaptop>this probably means xdm is used for nothing now \o/
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15:58<cae>oldlaptop: thanks
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16:07<luke>i have a problem with my grub installation, can someone help?
16:07-!-laztaf [] has quit []
16:07<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on See <smart questions><errors>.
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16:09<luke>well i'm on wheezy, i installed it recentely and if someone volunteers to help, i have a link for a boot repair log
16:09<luke>the thing is, i installed it alongside windows, and now windows doesn't boot
16:09-!-jesselang [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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16:09<luke>the last stable wheezy release
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16:10<oldlaptop>What *exactly* is going wrong?
16:11<LeDufaKaDemY>hi luke
16:12<LeDufaKaDemY>under debian try this : os-prober (with root)
16:12<LeDufaKaDemY>and update-grub , i think you can retrieve your windows boot
16:12-!-candings [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:13<luke>well, i think there might be a problem with the boot files location, I can't say much because i don't know much, but: I have an GPT, and I think on the boot partition, grubs sends to debian's boot partition, where grub is also installed -> if i choose "windows" as os to launch, it reloads grub2
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16:13<luke>i think that's it, because if i go in the BIOS and overrides to Debian, it sends me on grub2, instead of Debian directly!
16:14<luke>this is what os-prober gives me : /dev/sda1@/EFI/Microsoft/Boot/bootmgfw.efi:Windows Boot Manager:Windows:efi
16:14-!-piper [] has joined #debian
16:14<LeDufaKaDemY>do you try os-prober ?
16:14<LeDufaKaDemY>(oups sorry)
16:14-!-variable_ [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:15<luke>as i say, i have this boot repair file:
16:16<luke>I participated on the forum here if you prefer :
16:17-!-plexar [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:17<luke>(i realise i'm really not clear while reading myself again)
16:17<luke>please check the forum, things are more explained there!
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16:20<LeDufaKaDemY>do you read the grub2 concept (it's not like grub 1, you don't have to edit grub.cfg for tunning boot sequence ands os detection)
16:20<micechal>is this safe?
16:20<oldlaptop>micechal: think it's even default?
16:21<micechal>I don't have apt.conf file at all
16:21<oldlaptop>should be good, anyhow
16:21-!-cads [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
16:21<micechal>and someone suggested me to do cd /etc/apt && wget
16:21<micechal>this is the contents of apt.conf
16:22-!-bar7 [] has joined #debian
16:22<luke>i must run those commands?
16:23<oldlaptop>luke: micechal is doing a completely different thing
16:23<luke>do the commands /help work here?
16:24<oldlaptop>/help is for IRC commands
16:25<luke>yup that's what i want :)
16:25<oldlaptop>but sure, if your client isn't broken it should work
16:25<luke>I didn't want to type it for nothing xD
16:25<LeDufaKaDemY>must sleep bye (sorry for the non solved status ... :-( )
16:26-!-LeDufaKaDemY [] has left #debian [WeeChat 0.3.8]
16:26<oldlaptop>luke: 'do the commands /help work here' is harder to type than '/help'
16:26-!-chitchat [] has joined #debian
16:27<oldlaptop>you typed 'do the commands' and 'work here' (as well as "yup that's what I want" and "I didn't want to type it for nothing xD") for nothing
16:27-!-harobed [] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
16:27<luke>don't even try to find some logic
16:27<luke>but what is the entry for pm?
16:28<luke>private message
16:28<oldlaptop>you want to PM someone?
16:28<oldlaptop>/query <nick>
16:28<luke>red lines are private messages, right?
16:29<luke>oh, what are they then?
16:29<oldlaptop>they're a figment of your IRC client's imagination
16:29<oldlaptop>most IRC clients make a line containing your nick (or other arbitrary text of your choosing) red
16:29<luke>well or maybe just because there's my name on it
16:30<oldlaptop>they also usually do something else to get your attention (beeping or something)
16:30<micechal>I've installed deborphan
16:30<micechal>and this is the output
16:30<luke>okay so
16:30<micechal>can I remove everything it listed?
16:30<luke>oldlaptpop, can you help me on my problem?
16:30-!-ribe [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:31<oldlaptop>luke: unfortunately I personally am not familar with EFI
16:31<luke>I'd quite like to have my windows back :/
16:31<luke>well thanks anyway
16:31<stderr_dk>micechal: Do you need those packages?
16:32<micechal>I don't know
16:32<oldlaptop>micechal: if nothing depends on a libfoo, removing it *probably* won't hurt
16:32<micechal>how do I check whether something depends on it?
16:32-!-leoslax [] has quit [Quit: Saliendo]
16:32<oldlaptop>isn't that what deborphan does?
16:33-!-mode/#debian [+l 651] by debhelper
16:33<micechal>so nothing depends on them
16:33<micechal>I'll remove them
16:33<oldlaptop>you might well want lynx
16:33<oldlaptop>it can be handy
16:33<micechal>why would deborphan select it then?
16:33<oldlaptop>and I'd bet those use well under 5MB of disk put together
16:33<stderr_dk>micechal: Some of your own programs and scripts might use something from those packages. It's impossible for us to know.
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16:34<stderr_dk>micechal: The description of mktemp says "Empty package to facilitate upgrades, can be safely removed."...
16:35<oldlaptop>aaaah, lynx is a metapackage too
16:35<oldlaptop>as I just remembered
16:35<micechal>dat lynx
16:35<micechal>hard to use
16:35<oldlaptop>the actual binary is in lynx-cur
16:35-!-jaysonr [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:35<oldlaptop>those are all probably junk (although still probably not going to make any meaningful difference in terms of disk space)
16:36-!-houms [] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
16:36<stderr_dk>ia32-libs doesn't exist anymore, so nothing should depend on it.
16:36<micechal>but just for the sake of clean system
16:36<micechal>so I can apt-get purge these safely
16:37<stderr_dk>Most likely, yes.
16:37<luke>anyone familiar with uefi?
16:37<stderr_dk>If something "bad" happens, you can always install them again. (For those packages that still exist in wheezy...)
16:38<dpkg>Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) is a firmware interface specification, intended to replace the <BIOS> firmware interface. Debian 7 "Wheezy" supports installation in (U)EFI mode on 64-bit PC systems (amd64), <secure boot> is currently not supported. See also <errata>.
16:38<luke>that's to have some help actually
16:38<stderr_dk>luke: Just ask your question. If someone can answer, they will.
16:39<micechal>After this operation, 1616 kB disk space will be freed. haha
16:39<luke>i have a problem with my boot, everything is explained on the forum here :
16:40<luke>i can't boot windows because i think there might be a problem with the files location
16:41<micechal>it's weird
16:41<micechal>now deborphan returns this:
16:42<oldlaptop>luke: what happens when you try to boot Windows?
16:42<micechal>is it still safe to remove these?
16:42-!-zxcvbnm [] has quit [Quit: Lämnar]
16:42<luke>when i boot windows i have grub2 appearing again
16:42<oldlaptop>I see removing ia-32libs did something
16:43<oldlaptop>luke: it does nothing?
16:43<stderr_dk>micechal: Are you using i386 or amd64 or multiarch?
16:43<oldlaptop>if not, does it say anything before GRUB restarts?
16:43<micechal>I don't know
16:43<luke>oldlaptop, it reloads grub2!
16:44<luke>there are error messages but i don't have thetime to read it
16:44<luke>and grub2 appears again
16:44<oldlaptop>now those error messages are probably important
16:44-!-lOOza [~lOOza@2a02:a03f:aa2:b000:219:dbff:fecd:3a22] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
16:44<luke>i know, but i don't know how to make it stay on the screen
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16:45-!-Brigo [] has joined #debian
16:45<oldlaptop>I suppose taking a picture isn't possible? :)
16:45-!-candings [] has joined #debian
16:46<stderr_dk>micechal: Maybe apt-get autoremove would be faster?
16:46<luke>nop, it just stays a fraction of second on the screen, then grub2 loads
16:46-!-hed0nismb0t [] has joined #debian
16:46<micechal>0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
16:46<micechal>does nothing
16:47<oldlaptop>luke: hold camera in front of screen, press enter and shutter button at the same time
16:48<oldlaptop>repeat until you get the information :P
16:48<micechal>maybe record a movie :P
16:48<oldlaptop>[16:43:44] <micechal> I don't know
16:48<oldlaptop>uname -a will at least tell you what the base arch is
16:48<oldlaptop>micechal: now there's an idea!
16:48-!-NIN_ [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:49<micechal>Linux micechal 2.6.32-042stab078.28 #1 SMP Mon Jul 8 10:17:22 MSK 2013 x86_64 GNU/Linux
16:49<luke>but i think the information on the forum are good, check the link i posted of BootRepair
16:49<oldlaptop>yes, that's helpful
16:49<luke>there are all the files, their location and all
16:49<luke>and my partition too
16:49<micechal>so can I do deborphan | xargs apt-get remove --purge ?
16:49-!-chitchat [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:50<luke>so i think the problem is files in sda1/ send to grub on sda6/, where windows isn't written
16:50<oldlaptop>luke: the error message which GRUB (or the windows bootloader) spits out is probably more important
16:51<oldlaptop>you understand how GRUB boots Windows?
16:51<oldlaptop>it doesn't know how to boot windows from scratch (unless there's been a big change lately...)
16:51<oldlaptop>the operative bit of config gile is at line 233 in your pastebin
16:51<stderr_dk>micechal: What distro are you using? And what release?
16:52<micechal>Debian 7
16:52<oldlaptop>the basic idea is that GRUB actually just loads the Windows bootloader
16:52<stderr_dk>micechal: With a homemade kernel?
16:52<luke>that's why i say that! Once in the grub on sda6, it doesn't know how to boot anymore windows
16:52<micechal>I don't know about the kernel
16:52<micechal>it's a openvz vps
16:52<oldlaptop>luke: not really
16:52<oldlaptop>GRUB *never* knows how to boot windows
16:52<luke>but it knows where the loader is
16:53<oldlaptop>all it knows how to do is (essentially) boot the Windows bootloader
16:53<oldlaptop>the config file appears to correctly tell GRUB how to do that
16:53<stderr_dk>micechal: What are you running on that server?
16:53<micechal>I think I'll do apt-get purge `deborphan`
16:54<stderr_dk>micechal: Ok, I just noticed that there was some apache libraries on the lists.
16:54-!-SpeccyMan [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:54<micechal>there was apache installed by default
16:54<micechal>I removed it
16:54<micechal>and installed nginx
16:55-!-gjerich [] has joined #debian
16:55<micechal>that was 20.3 MB
16:56<oldlaptop>luke: the only way we'll actually know what is going wrong is if we can figure out what GRUB is saying before it reloads
16:56<micechal>so basically I should repeat until there's nothing on the list?
16:56<luke>yes i'm gonna do that just a bit later
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16:58-!-lensen [] has joined #debian
16:59<oldlaptop>micechal: now it's starting to make me a little antsy :/
16:59<oldlaptop>libssh2-1:i386, for instance
16:59-!-gudjon [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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16:59<oldlaptop>probably still fine (since you're most likely using the amd64 version for ssh access...)
17:00<stderr_dk>Some of those packages doesn't make any sense at all on a server, like libxinerama1:i386.
17:00<micechal>it's 20.6 MB now
17:01<micechal>should I proceed?
17:01<luke>oldlaptop, i reboot and try to get the message
17:01-!-swo [] has quit [Quit: Kein bock mehr.]
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17:02<micechal>I'll keep purging until there's nothing on the list
17:03-!-Blacker47 [] has quit [Quit: Unfortunately, the internet is not available in Germany because it may contain music for which GEMA has not granted the respective music rights.]
17:03<micechal>let's see what happens
17:03<oldlaptop>micechal: should be safe, I suppose
17:03<stderr_dk>I have never trying, but would apt-get remove '*:i386' work?
17:03<oldlaptop>especially anything that's i386
17:03<micechal>libavahi-common3:amd64 I guess this one is related to video playback
17:03<oldlaptop>if the *only* thing this box is doing is running nginx/php5-fpm (along with ssh/mta/other infrastructure), I fail to see what i386 libs will help
17:04-!-gyx [~gyx__@2607:f470:24:3:cd2a:a6f8:c3ca:a8bb] has joined #debian
17:04<oldlaptop>it's actually for zero-configuration (zeroconf) networking
17:04<micechal>wow, this time it's 96.6 MB
17:04<oldlaptop>Apple calls that bonjour
17:04<stderr_dk>Or rendevous (or however it's spelled)
17:04-!-Auroch [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
17:04<oldlaptop>there's a z in there
17:05<oldlaptop>'rendezvous' I think
17:05<oldlaptop>silly French anyhow
17:05<micechal>what would it look like if something serious happens?
17:05-!-bullgard6 [] has joined #debian
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17:06<micechal>seem unneeded
17:06<stderr_dk>micechal: Could you try and see what apt-get remove '*:i386' would remove?
17:06<micechal>E: Unable to locate package *
17:06<micechal>E: Regex compilation error - Invalid preceding regular expression
17:06<micechal>E: Couldn't find any package by regex '*'
17:07<oldlaptop>darn regex
17:07-!-swo [] has quit []
17:07<stderr_dk>How about '.*:i386' instead?
17:07<oldlaptop>what's regex for 'any character infinite times'
17:07<stderr_dk>Or just ':i386'?
17:07<oldlaptop>yeah, .*
17:08-!-bullgard4 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:08-!-bullgard6 is now known as bullgard4
17:09<micechal>it's processing
17:10-!-kleptog [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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17:12<stderr_dk>micechal: I think you can remove those without any problems.
17:13-!-MraMaria [] has joined #debian
17:13<micechal>deborphan returns nothing now
17:13<micechal>after some runs
17:13-!-luke [] has joined #debian
17:13<micechal>I'll now delete everything with i386 as you say, stderr_dk
17:14<sauren>So what are you guys doing?
17:14<luke>oldlaptop, i'm back
17:14<stderr_dk>sauren: We're answering debian questions...
17:14<oldlaptop>luke: good
17:14-!-cads [] has joined #debian
17:14<stderr_dk>sauren: Got any?
17:14-!-aiaco [~aiaco@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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17:15<sauren>Yea actually.
17:15<luke>and the error message is "failed to open \EFI\Microsoft\grubx64.efi", "failed to load image", "failed to open \EFI\Microsoft\MokManager.efi", "Failed to load image"
17:15<sauren>I thought i did
17:15<sauren>I guess not
17:16<sauren>I kind've solved it myself by looking at my rsa private key
17:16<sauren>but thanks
17:16-!-Guest4268 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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17:17<oldlaptop>luke: that's interesting
17:17-!-wd40s [~wd40s@] has joined #debian
17:17<luke>oldlaptop, The files just aren't in the sda6 partition
17:18-!-drali_ [] has quit [Quit: Odchazim]
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17:18<oldlaptop>'\EFI\Microsoft\grubx64.efi' sounds like something that doesn't exist to me
17:18<oldlaptop>just offhand :P
17:18-!-DavidBrooke [] has joined #debian
17:18<luke>it appears in my BIOS too
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17:19<oldlaptop>luke: you'll really have to find someone who understands EFI now
17:19<luke>oldlaptop, haha i guess
17:19<luke>oldlaptop, look here too
17:20<sauren>debian is based off of apt-get correct?
17:20-!-St_bsdiu` [~user@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:20<micechal>thanks for help everyone, deborphan now doesn't return anything and I've removed all i386 packages
17:20-!-St_bsdiu` [~user@] has joined #debian
17:20<sauren>I'm so used to arch, i just tried to type pacman -S into the terminal route.
17:20<micechal>try apt-get install pacman :P
17:21<oldlaptop>luke: I just was
17:21<stderr_dk>sauren: Eh... apt-get is a program, not a distro.
17:21<oldlaptop>[17:20:01] <sauren> debian is based off of apt-get correct?
17:21<oldlaptop>this is kind of like saying a cars is based off of fuel injection
17:22<stderr_dk>micechal: Did you try deborphan after deleting the i386 packages?
17:22<oldlaptop>(it's not a great car analogy I guess, but it's pretty good)
17:22<micechal>I'm now rebooting the server
17:22<micechal>let's see whether it still works :P
17:23-!-mode/#debian [+l 645] by debhelper
17:23-!-towo` [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
17:23*oldlaptop waits for server to implode
17:23<micechal>reboot: command not found
17:23<micechal>what the hell
17:23<stderr_dk>Not root?
17:23<micechal>I'm a root
17:24<micechal>wtf is happening :c
17:24<oldlaptop>was reboot there before?
17:24<micechal>there was
17:24<stderr_dk>Not using sysvinit?
17:24<micechal>I used to just type "reboot"
17:24<stderr_dk>/sbin/reboot is in sysvinit.
17:24<stderr_dk>Try installing that package.
17:25-!-johnpaulneedham [~johnpauln@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:25*oldlaptop never took server CPR class...
17:25<micechal>E: Package 'sysvinit' has no installation candidate
17:25<micechal>something is broken
17:25-!-sauren [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
17:25<oldlaptop>something is insane
17:25-!-Blue_Hat [~TwinKam20@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:25<oldlaptop>aptitude update
17:25<micechal>-bash: shutdown: command not found
17:26<oldlaptop>inb4 bash: bash: command not found
17:26<sney>is your path just ruined? could you do /sbin/shutdown ?
17:26-!-Blue_Hat [~TwinKam20@] has joined #debian
17:26<micechal>-bash: /sbin/shutdown: No such file or directory
17:26-!-antonella [] has joined #debian
17:26<oldlaptop>this isbad
17:26<oldlaptop>is bad
17:26<sney>fs corruption looks like this, sometimes
17:26-!-InvadeD [] has joined #debian
17:26<sney>this is about how my soho server was acting when the root ssd was about to die
17:26<stderr_dk>micechal: apt-get install sysvinit
17:26-!-[UP]Crystal [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:27<oldlaptop>[17:25:23] <micechal> E: Package 'sysvinit' has no installation candidate
17:27<stderr_dk>Oh, yeah...
17:27<oldlaptop>this is going to be Fun
17:27<stderr_dk>apt-get update
17:27<micechal>the webserver still works
17:27-!-SpeccyMan [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:27<oldlaptop>I wonder if this silly VPN outfit had coreutils:i386 or something
17:28<oldlaptop>rather than coreutils:amd64
17:28<micechal>E: Package 'sysvinit' has no installation candidate
17:28<sney>oh is this on an amazing/hilarious custom VPS
17:28<stderr_dk>micechal: And no complaining from apt-get update?
17:28<luke>oldlaptop, i found this if you think it can help, it's pretty accurate:
17:29<stderr_dk>micechal: Can we see your sources.list?
17:29<sney>on my vps, I ran 'aptitude -f install' for something minor and it tried to install a toolchain
17:29<micechal>However the following packages replace it:
17:29<micechal> upstart:i386 sysvinit-utils:i386 systemd-sysv:i386 upstart sysvinit-utils
17:29<micechal> systemd-sysv file-rc
17:29<oldlaptop>what exactly is *in* sources.list?
17:29<oldlaptop>do they have their own "value-added" repo for you?
17:30<micechal>let me check
17:30<sney>upstart, sysv, AND systemd. hooray
17:30<micechal>I've created that sources.list by hand
17:30<devil_>and even with systemd, reboot works as before
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17:31*oldlaptop preemtively turns flamethrower on devil_ the evil systemd heretic
17:31<stderr_dk>micechal: I would still like to see that sources.list, even if it's handmade... Especially if it's handmade. :-)
17:31-!-wojtek123 [] has joined #debian
17:32<micechal>I just got kind of banned from pastebin
17:32<oldlaptop> is nice
17:32-!-wd40s [~wd40s@] has joined #debian
17:32<stderr_dk>Yeah, what he said!
17:32<devil_>oldlaptop: haha, I am wearing my asbestus underwear :P
17:33<stderr_dk>Line 3 is missing an "n"
17:33<themill>line 3
17:33<oldlaptop>'deb wheezy-updates mai'
17:33<stderr_dk>And I would drop line 5 and 6 and use the package from debian.
17:33<micechal>what a shame
17:33<micechal>I want mainline
17:33<micechal>debian has only stable
17:33<oldlaptop>What's different/better?
17:34-!-wojtek123 [] has quit []
17:34*oldlaptop is decidedly ignorant on webserver specifics
17:34<micechal>mainline is newer
17:34<micechal>its 1.5.x
17:34<stderr_dk>micechal: Have you checked backports?
17:34<oldlaptop>as long as it spits HTML out over the wire I'm happy :P
17:34<stderr_dk>oldlaptop: HTML and ONLY HTML... No CSS. No JavaScript. No images... :-)
17:34-!-jesselang [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
17:35<oldlaptop>stderr_dk: yes. YES.
17:35<stderr_dk>And NO XHTML! :-)
17:35-!-St_bsdiu` [~user@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:35-!-St_bsdiu` [~user@] has joined #debian
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17:36<micechal>E: Package 'sysvinit' has no installation candidate
17:36<micechal>still this
17:36<oldlaptop>oh joy
17:36<micechal>after editing it and updating
17:37<oldlaptop>(apparently the actual sysvinit package, sysvinit is a metapackage which PreDepends on sysvinit | upstart | systemd)
17:37<stderr_dk>judd: v sysvinit amd64
17:37<judd>Package: sysvinit on amd64 -- squeeze: 2.88dsf-13.1+squeeze1; wheezy: 2.88dsf-41+deb7u1; jessie: 2.88dsf-45; sid: 2.88dsf-45
17:37<micechal>E: Unable to locate package sysvinit-core
17:38<micechal>guys, what's going on here
17:38-!-jesselang [] has joined #debian
17:38<oldlaptop>Just the question I was about to ask
17:38<stderr_dk>oldlaptop: You mean "sysvinit-utils"?
17:38<oldlaptop>stderr_dk: I mean sysvinit-core
17:38<oldlaptop>$ aptitude show sysvinit
17:38<oldlaptop>PreDepends: sysvinit-core | upstart | systemd-sysv
17:39<stderr_dk>judd: v sysvinit-core
17:39<judd>Package: sysvinit-core on i386 -- jessie: 2.88dsf-45; sid: 2.88dsf-45
17:39<stderr_dk>oldlaptop: Wheezy... Not jessie.
17:39<oldlaptop>oh, right
17:40<micechal>what if I restarted it from the vps panel?
17:40-!-Lensen_ [] has joined #debian
17:40<oldlaptop>I wonder how big the resulting explosion will be
17:40<stderr_dk>micechal: I wouldn't...
17:40<Poenikatu>I'm using Debian wheezy. When I try to run info at a command line, I get the message "Cannot find the Top node." My /usr/share/info/dir file is at Is there anything wrong with it?
17:40<micechal>so what can be done?
17:40-!-txomon [~txomon@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:40<stderr_dk>micechal: We're thinking...
17:41<oldlaptop>fire VPS provider?
17:42<stderr_dk>Is there an easy way to reinstall all the packages that are already installed? I mean something not like apt-get --reinstall install `dpkg --get-selections | awk '{ if($2=="install") { print $1 } }'`
17:43-!-bullgard4 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:43<oldlaptop>preferably as unlike that as possible O_o
17:43-!-SpeccyMan [] has joined #debian
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17:45<stderr_dk>Poenikatu: Can you rename that file, run update-info-dir and see if that helps?
17:46<Poenikatu>stderr_dk: Rename it to what?
17:46<stderr_dk>Some other name...
17:46<Poenikatu>stderr_dk: Will do.
17:46<micechal>is there any hope for my server?
17:47<sney>with init and coreutils missing? not really
17:47<sney>you can probably still back up your stuff
17:47-!-alsobrsp__ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:47<stderr_dk>micechal: Unless someone have a "cleaner" version of my ugly one-liner, you could try that...
17:47<sney>but to really fix it you'd need offline access
17:48<micechal>there's some kind of console at the provider's webiste
17:48<micechal>it connects in a different way
17:48<micechal>I think
17:48<micechal>stderr_dk, what oneliner?
17:48<stderr_dk>apt-get --reinstall install `dpkg --get-selections | awk '{ if($2=="install") { print $1 } }'`
17:48<micechal>I didn't notice
17:49<micechal>I'll try that
17:49<stderr_dk>It should reinstall all the packages you already have installed.
17:49<micechal>and download the dependencies?
17:50<stderr_dk>I would hope you already have the dependencies installed...
17:50<micechal>E: Couldn't configure pre-depend dpkg:amd64 for perl-base:amd64, probably a dependency cycle.
17:51-!-__iron [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:51<stderr_dk>micechal: How about aptitude -f install ?
17:51<Poenikatu>stderr_dk: Hm. Info worked after that, but only if I issued the command "LC_ALL=C update-info-dir". When I issue the command "update-info-dir" without changing LC_ALL, I get the missing Top node remark and info dose not work. I've looked at the file in /usr/share/locale/eo/LC_MESSAGES/, and the Esperanto reflects the original English message (\t after the word Top).
17:51<micechal>there's no aptitude
17:52-!-__iron [] has joined #debian
17:52<micechal>I'll install it
17:52<stderr_dk>... if you can. :-(
17:52<oldlaptop>inb4 bash: apt-get: command not found
17:53-!-CyberBob_ [~CyberBob@] has joined #debian
17:53<Poenikatu>stderr_dk: The Esperanto version of the `dir' file still has `\t' after the word `Top', but the English version has actual spaces which separate the word `Top' from the following explanation
17:53-!-lord_rob [robert@] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
17:53<stderr_dk>I haven't used apt-get in a long time. Is it apt-get -f install ?
17:53<micechal> aptitude -f install what?
17:53<micechal>I've got aptitude
17:54<stderr_dk>micechal: Nothing after install.
17:54-!-svennejaevel [~neger@] has joined #debian
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17:54<micechal>nothing happened
17:54<micechal>I mean it did something
17:54<micechal>but didn't install anything
17:54<micechal>0 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
17:54<micechal>Need to get 0 B of archives. After unpacking 0 B will be used.
17:54<stderr_dk>Poenikatu: I really can't remember the format of the dir file.
17:54<Poenikatu>stderr_dk: It's in the paste I mentioned
17:55<stderr_dk>Poenikatu: I mean, I can't remember what it should be.
17:55<micechal>No candidate version found for sysvinit
17:56<micechal>it's all a waste now
17:56<micechal>thanks for help everyone
17:56<oldlaptop>do other packages work?
17:56<Poenikatu>stderr_dk: Ok. I'll paste both the original English and the translated Esperanto so that you can see that the two file contents are similar.
17:56<oldlaptop>do they exist?
17:56<micechal>how do I check?
17:56<stderr_dk>micechal: How about "sysvinit-utils"?
17:56<micechal>in aptitude?
17:57<stderr_dk>Or apt-get.
17:57<oldlaptop>micechal: aptitude show <any package>
17:57<oldlaptop>or apt-cache show <any package>
17:57<micechal>sysvinit-utils is already the newest version.
17:57<micechal>I think I've got to go by now
17:58<micechal>will you be there this time tomorrow?
17:58*oldlaptop will be
17:58-!-dous [] has joined #debian
17:58<micechal>maybe two hours earlier or so
17:58-!-CyberBob [~CyberBob@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:58<micechal>I wonder whether it'll let me connect to ssh
17:58<oldlaptop>at this rate your server may have figured out a way to kill itself by this time tomorrow though :D
17:58<stderr_dk>Poenikatu: I think it's a bug in the Esperanto translation. The \t should be a real tab, not "\" followed by a "t".
17:58<micechal>I won't close the connection now
17:59<oldlaptop>good idea :P
17:59<micechal>thanks for help everyone again and we'll see each other tomorrow :)
17:59<micechal>removing these packages wasn't the best idea
17:59<stderr_dk>Poenikatu: Just for fun, have you tried other languages?
18:00-!-ao2 [~u@2001:1418:117::1] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
18:00-!-ompaul [] has quit [Quit: and zebedee said its time for other stuff]
18:00<stderr_dk>micechal: Sorry, it didn't work. :-/
18:00<Poenikatu>No, but I'm in the process of pasting the original English and the Esperanto translation as well as the resulting dir files. Just a moment
18:01-!-CyberBob [~CyberBob@] has joined #debian
18:01-!-AgentC [] has joined #debian
18:02<AgentC>Hi !
18:03<oldlaptop>! iH
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18:09<AgentC>what is the best debian ISO-Boot-Image for USB-stick devices (< 1GB for USB-STICK // <512MB for SD-CARD) - a complete rescue-system without need for network or cdrom - ; only reason for usage is to rescue linux as well windows systems; even on older notebooks) ? (and how i can put the isoimage-file to an empty usb-stick by use of a windows-XP tool) ?
18:10-!-luke [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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18:13<Poenikatu>stderr_dk: Herewith the paste:
18:13<oldlaptop>AgentC: try
18:14<crahan>gotta get used to i3 window focus :)
18:15-!-jeep_ [] has joined #debian
18:15<Poenikatu>AgentC: Just download a Debian netinst ISO and then issue the command "dd if=path-to-iso of=/dev/your-usb-stick bs=1M". Check dmesg to get the device name for the USB stick
18:16-!-fr33k [] has joined #debian
18:17<Poenikatu>AgentC: Ensure that you write to the DEVICE, not to a partition
18:18<Poenikatu>AgentC: don't try to mount the USB stick. Use dd without mounting the stick
18:18-!-crahan [] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
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18:20<AgentC>Poenikatu: I know how the copy to stick works on linux machines, but i am in hospital and only i have a fu**ing acer aspire 3020 with a 100GB Drive and a not correctly working Win-XP SP3 ; k t
18:21<stderr_dk>!usb install
18:21<dpkg>You can install Debian from a USB stick/thumbdrive/pen drive/key on x86 systems, as long as your system's BIOS can boot from USB. Details are in the Installation Guide, see and ask me about <install debian> for hybrid CD/DVD images. Use to write images from Windows. For BIOSes not capable of USB boot, ask me about <plop>.
18:21<AgentC>internet only by USB-mobile ;slowly
18:22<Poenikatu>AgentC: Oops! Sorry about you being in hosp. I know what it's like, but fortunately, I had a Linux system, not M$ Windoze
18:22<hadi>So i believe i finally figured out why linux is eatting my memory. using hdparm, i test /dev/sda1, and sometimes (those times that my memory is near full) my i/o speed is 15mb/s
18:22<stderr_dk>AgentC: See the dpkg factoid...
18:22<stderr_dk>!win dd
18:22<dpkg>Congratulations, dd! You have won the US presidency!
18:23<stderr_dk>!dd win
18:23<stderr_dk>!win32 dd
18:23<dpkg><dd> for Microsoft Windows operating systems is available from
18:23-!-marko_ [] has joined #debian
18:23<stderr_dk>That might be a solution too...
18:23-!-hubutm20 [~hubutm20@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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18:24<AgentC>:-) thx ... i am shortly away, must out of room for some minutes....
18:24-!-jakob [~jakob@] has joined #debian
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18:25<micechal>are you guys still here?
18:26<micechal>I seem to have sorted out the problem with shutdown
18:26<stderr_dk>Wohoo! How?
18:26<micechal>I did apt-get install systemd
18:26<micechal>and apt-get install systemd-sysv
18:26<micechal>eh, too early
18:27<micechal>it said system is going for reboot NOW
18:27<micechal>but it didn't
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18:28<Poenikatu>stderr_dk: Not seen the word `factoid' before.
18:28<stderr_dk>micechal: Do you have a /proc/sysrq-trigger ?
18:28<micechal>Failed to talk to shutdownd, proceeding with immediate shutdown: No such file or directory
18:29<micechal>I have
18:29<stderr_dk>Poenikatu: Neither had I before I came here. :-)
18:29-!-jkf [] has joined #debian
18:30<stderr_dk>micechal: echo s > /proc/sysrq-trigger ; sleep 1 ; echo u > /proc/sysrq-trigger ; sleep 1 ; echo b > /proc/sysrq-trigger
18:30<stderr_dk>Fingers crossed...
18:30<micechal>nothing happened
18:31<Poenikatu>stderr_dk: Currently downloading an 87.13 GiB file, so cannot access Wiktionary for the moment :-;
18:31<stderr_dk>micechal: You're still root?
18:31-!-mtn [] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
18:31<stderr_dk>Poenikatu: Wikipedia says "A factoid is a questionable or spurious (unverified, false, or fabricated) statement presented as a fact, but without supporting evidence."
18:32<Poenikatu>stderr_dk: Now I know! Thanx
18:32-!-fiasko [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:32<stderr_dk>No problem.
18:32<micechal>maybe I could wget the shutdown binary?
18:32-!-txomon [] has joined #debian
18:32<stderr_dk>micechal: Anything in the bottom of dmesg?
18:32<micechal>what do you mean?
18:33<micechal>dmesg returns nothing
18:33<stderr_dk>(What the **** is wrong with that system?)
18:33-!-Kiryx [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
18:33<micechal>I guess it's ****ed up
18:34<stderr_dk>How about something a bit more dangerous? echo o > /proc/sysrq-trigger
18:34-!-josgalo [] has quit [Quit: Yaaic - Yet another Android IRC client -]
18:34<stderr_dk>Great, you have sysrq-trigger, but the magic sys requests doesn't work... :-(
18:35<micechal>poweroff command also doesn't work
18:35<stderr_dk>BTW: s should have synced the discs. u should have unmounted the partitions. b should have rebooted. o should have done a poweroff.
18:36<micechal>it still works
18:37<micechal>I could give you the root password if you want, since it's not worth anything
18:37<micechal>maybe you could do something
18:37<stderr_dk>I don't know if that's a good idea...
18:37<micechal>of course it's not
18:38<micechal>but since it can't get worse
18:39<stderr_dk>Maybe it would be better, if you added one of my ssh pubkeys to roots .ssh/authorized_keys, then I wouldn't need to know you root password.
18:39<micechal>sure I can do that
18:39<stderr_dk>micechal: One looonnnggg line sent in a private message...
18:42-!-oscarr_ [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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18:48<stderr_dk>0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 304 reinstalled, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
18:49-!-fae [] has joined #debian
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18:49-!-paul is now known as Guest4276
18:49<micechal>what command did you use?
18:49-!-blumoon [] has joined #debian
18:49<stderr_dk>My one-liner + some grep -v -e dpkg -e perl-base -e ...
18:50<micechal>what is actually reinstalling everything supposed to do?
18:50-!-Lensen_ [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
18:50<stderr_dk>I cleaned up your dpkg --get-selections too. Removed all the i386 stuff and apache2-doc.
18:50<stderr_dk>My guess would be that some files were deleted that shouldn't have been.
18:51<micechal>maybe that was because of using purge instead of remove
18:51<stderr_dk>So now we're just making sure everything that should be there actually is there.
18:51-!-skarphedin [] has joined #debian
18:51<stderr_dk>"remove" keeps config files. "purge" remove those too.
18:51<micechal>I'll backup my nginx config just in case
18:51<stderr_dk>Neither should remove files from packages that we want to keep.
18:51<micechal>I had a hard time setting up php
18:52<micechal>is it still reinstalling?
18:52-!-Guest4276 [] has quit []
18:52<micechal>keeping my fingers crossed then
18:52-!-skarphedin [] has quit []
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18:54<micechal>I now have a backup
18:55<stderr_dk>I don't know if there's any order to this, but we're at module-init-tools..
18:55<stderr_dk>gpgv... libc6... Weird order...
18:55-!-dutchfish [] has quit [Quit: Splash, leaving the bowl]
18:56<micechal>maybe filesize
18:56-!-alsobrsp__ [] has joined #debian
18:56-!-bounce [~bounce@2601:9:5380:50f:15d4:517a:6804:df33] has joined #debian
18:56<micechal>doesn't it say x out of x?
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18:58<micechal>it's got poor network connection
18:58<stderr_dk>No idea why you would have that installed, but whatever... :-)
18:58<micechal>it's like 5 mb/s
18:59<micechal>I didn't install it
18:59<micechal>google searches direct me to samba
18:59-!-_aeris_ is now known as [_aeris_]
18:59<micechal>and samba came preinstalled with the vps
18:59<stderr_dk>It doesn't seem like it's downloading any packages. Just using the ones in the cache.
19:00<stderr_dk>Setting up stuff now...
19:00<micechal>maybe the cache is wrong
19:00<micechal>and it's meesing things up
19:01<stderr_dk>If this doesn't work, we can try cleaning out the cache and reinstall everything again.
19:01<stderr_dk>But let's hope this works.
19:01<micechal>that'll take ages
19:02-!-skandfn [] has joined #debian
19:02<micechal>what are the actual problems right now? I've only noticed the lack of reboot, shutdown etc.
19:02-!-txomon|home [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:02-!-freedomrun [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:02<stderr_dk>I don't know if the package signature check is done when the package is being downloaded or just before it's being unpacked. I would hope the later. In that case we can trust the cache.
19:02-!-jeep_ [] has joined #debian
19:02<micechal>but nginx works perfectly, I can connect with putty,
19:03-!-mode/#debian [+l 639] by debhelper
19:03<stderr_dk>I don't know if there might be other problems.
19:03<stderr_dk>It just restated bind9...
19:03-!-skandfn [] has quit []
19:04<micechal>it's for DNS
19:04<micechal>but I don't have any domain
19:05-!-HRH_H_Crab [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:06<micechal>is it still working?
19:06<stderr_dk>Consider uninstalling it when we're done.
19:07-!-kmo [] has quit [Quit: Leaving (don't let the door.....)]
19:07<stderr_dk>Seems you're running sendmail...
19:08<micechal>it came preinstalled
19:08<micechal>everything did
19:08<micechal>I've only installed nginx and php5-fpm myself
19:08<micechal>nothing more afaik
19:10<micechal>why doesn't it show percentage :(
19:10<stderr_dk>It's done with the big set of packages. I'm doing the missing 4 packages now...
19:11<micechal>perl-base like this one?
19:11<stderr_dk>Yes, perl-base is the last one... And the one I'm on now...
19:11<micechal>why didn't them work earlier?
19:12<oldlaptop>because insanity
19:12-!-kmo [] has joined #debian
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19:12<micechal>keep your fingers crossed, oldlaptop
19:12-!-freedomrun [] has joined #debian
19:13<stderr_dk>I'm so tempted to remove multiarch support...
19:13*oldlaptop sacrifices two chickens and does a strange dance
19:13<micechal>feel free
19:14<stderr_dk>oldlaptop: I already sacrificed a goat... My favorite goat!!!
19:14<oldlaptop>oh no
19:14<oldlaptop>you never mix chickens and goats D:
19:14<oldlaptop>what have I done
19:15<micechal>stderr_dk, what is happening there?
19:15-!-alsobrsp__ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:16-!-kmo [] has quit []
19:16<stderr_dk>Well, I still can't install sysvinit, because of ... bla bla bla ... sysvinit-utils:i386 ... bla bla bla... So no multiarch is going to die...
19:16-!-Neil [~Neil@] has joined #debian
19:17-!-Neil is now known as Guest4279
19:17-!-Guest4279 is now known as Neil_
19:17-!-Neil_ is now known as Neil__
19:17-!-Neil__ is now known as Zaid
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19:20<Zaid>Is it fine if I ask a probably stupid question here?
19:20<micechal>yes, I do so
19:20<stderr_dk># which reboot
19:20-!-kmo [] has joined #debian
19:20<stderr_dk>micechal: What me to try it out?
19:20-!-ixi [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
19:20<micechal>to try what out?
19:20<petn-randall>Zaid: Don't ask to ask, if it's debian-related just go ahead.
19:21<micechal>didn't work
19:21<Zaid>aptitude was complaining that I needed to insert my Debian CD to install a package. so I went to the preferences file and commented out all the lines relateing to the CD...
19:21<Zaid>... and now it doesn't ask for that anymore, but it does complain that it can't find a package as common as sudo
19:21<stderr_dk>Zaid: ... and ran apt-get update
19:22<Zaid>I've done that
19:22<Zaid>and I'm connected to the internet obviously
19:22<nevyn>and make suure you have a online source ...
19:22<petn-randall>dpkg: tell Zaid -about bat
19:22<nevyn>grep -v ^# /etc/apt/sources.list
19:22<Zaid>online source...? That's probably my issue
19:22<petn-randall>Zaid: for us to help you, you need to provide the info that dpkg asked you for.
19:23-!-mode/#debian [+l 633] by debhelper
19:23<nevyn>Zaid: does that return anything?
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19:23<micechal>stderr_dk, maybe try shutdown -r
19:23<Zaid>It's the deb and deb-src secrutiy.debian defualt ones
19:23<stderr_dk>micechal: That was what I tried.
19:24<Zaid>and pretty much the same URLs except with the FTP that I commented out
19:24-!-Blue_Hat [~TwinKam20@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
19:24<Zaid>*uncommented out
19:24-!-kmo [] has quit []
19:24<Zaid>They were originally commented out, I uncommented them trying to fix it
19:24<nevyn>can you upload the sources.list to
19:25<micechal>I think I've really got to go now
19:25<Zaid>sure one second
19:25<micechal>stderr_dk, please try doing something with it :(
19:25<micechal>I'll be here tomorrow
19:25<oldlaptop>what's wrong with the thing now?!
19:26<stderr_dk>micechal: I'm trying all that I can.
19:26<nerilex>hi, i've some problems with a box running jessie; eth0 is comming up even if I configure 'iface eth0 inet manual' in /etc/network/interfaces
19:26-!-otisco_lake [] has joined #debian
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19:27<stderr_dk>No candidate version found for sysvinit
19:27<stderr_dk>So now I'm going to download the deb myself and dpkg -i it...
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19:27<oldlaptop>that'll teach it
19:27<petn-randall>nerilex: testing and unstable are support in #debian-next, feel free to ask there.
19:28<micechal>good luck
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19:28<petn-randall>dpkg: tell Zaid -about sources.list
19:28<nerilex>I tried a few things like adding it to the exclude lit in /etc/init.d/networking – didn't work
19:28<Zaid>He did
19:29<stderr_dk>sysvinit: creating /run/initctl
19:29<petn-randall>Zaid: The bot should have sent you the proper info to fix your problem.
19:29<stderr_dk>.init: timeout opening/writing control channel /run/initctl
19:29-!-jesselang_ [] has joined #debian
19:29<stderr_dk>Interesting... (I think...)
19:29<petn-randall>nerilex: Ask in #debian-next, this is stable only.
19:29<nerilex>petn-randall: sorry, will go there ...
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19:30<petn-randall>nerilex: No problem, I'm there, too :)
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19:35<Neil_>Looks like it's working
19:35<Neil_>Thank you <3
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19:40<stderr_dk>micechal: Guess I shouldn't have done that last part... :-( I kicked be out and clearly the server ain't rebooting.
19:40<stderr_dk>And yeah, I can't get back in. :-(
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19:46<stderr_dk>I guess it's time for me to find something to eat before I destroy something else...
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19:47<Koala>Is anyone able to help me with this? (no idea if directly related to debian) ;-;
19:47<AgentC>thank you very much, have a nice evening.
19:48<oldlaptop>Koala: well obviously the action "start" failed
19:48-!-AgentC [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:48<oldlaptop>and errors were clearly encountered while processing mongodb-10gen
19:48<Koala>I'm aware of that much, just don't know why. exact same thing worked on another server
19:50-!-vimes [~vimes@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:51<stderr_dk>Have you checked the log files?
19:51<stderr_dk>No, wait, I was going to eat BEFORE I destroy something else... Nevermind...
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19:52<Koala>only error I can see is: exception in initAndListen std::exception: boost::filesystem::exists: Permission denied: "/sys/devices/system/node/node1", terminating
19:53-!-mode/#debian [+l 626] by debhelper
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19:56<petn-randall>Hi Koala, on which release is this? How did you install mongodb?
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19:58<Koala>petn-randall, 7.3, following
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19:59<petn-randall>Koala: Err ... you could have just done 'apt-get install mongodb'. It's in Debian ...
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20:00<Koala>petn-randall, same issue
20:00-!-fisted [] has joined #debian
20:00<petn-randall>Koala: I recommend you just revert all those steps, and install it with the above instruction. The version in Debian gets security support by debian, and is tested to actually work together with all other elements of the system.
20:01<petn-randall>Koala: Unless you really need the newest and shiniest version, in which case you'll have to ask the mongodb channel what's wrong with their repository.
20:01<alumno>mi cpu es una aIO de exo modelo x2545
20:01<dpkg>Este canal es de soporte tecnico en Ingles para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en espanol, por favor ingrese a #debian-es con /join #debian-es tecleado en la linea de chat.
20:02-!-SpeccyMan [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
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20:02<alumno>tengo dramas con huayra xque no reconoce webcam ni wifi
20:03<alumno>i have problem with Huayra , my machine is EXO x2545 model AIO all in one
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20:04<alumno>i have problem with Huayra , my machine is EXO x2545 model AIO all in one
20:04<alumno>the mother HM65
20:05<alumno>! en
20:05<dpkg>The language of #debian is English. We will do our best to help you regardless of your level of English but you might be more comfortable asking for help in your own language. Ask me about your language code for more information, for example /msg dpkg br ; /msg dpkg pt ; /msg dpkg es ; /msg dpkg fr ; /msg dpkg de
20:05<dpkg>Este canal es de soporte tecnico en Ingles para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en espanol, por favor ingrese a #debian-es con /join #debian-es tecleado en la linea de chat.
20:06<alumno>i have problem with Huayra , my machine is EXO x2545 model AIO all in one
20:06<alumno>the mother HM65
20:06-!-Kino32 [] has joined #debian
20:06<alumno>what hapen
20:07<alumno>i have problem with Huayra , my machine is EXO x2545 model AIO all in one
20:07-!-vimes [~vimes@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:07<alumno>what hapen
20:07<alumno>i have problem with Huayra , my machine is EXO x2545 model AIO all in one
20:07<alumno>i have problem with Huayra , my machine is EXO x2545 model AIO all in one
20:08<Kino32>Sorry. I don't know that machine and that program.
20:08<Kino32>I can't help you.
20:08<alumno>hi sorry , is version of DEbian 7
20:09<alumno>and the machine has HM65 mother for all in one
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20:10<petn-randall>Thanks alumno, we've read it the first time. Please don't spam.
20:11<petn-randall>alumno: Please pay attention to the /topic.
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20:12<alumno>Ineed help whit my problem , debian 7 in HM65 do not reconogsy th webcam usb 2.0 and the wifi
20:13<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on See <smart questions><errors>.
20:14<petn-randall>alumno: Please explain your problem in a clear manner. Also check the message from dpkg. ^^^^^
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20:16<alumno>I have a problem with a machine with HM65 (the mother inside) and running Debian 7. webcam chicony usb 2.0 and wifi rtl8188ce do not reconogsy
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20:16<alumno>is aaaAIO, all in one
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20:17<abrotman>Huayra isn't supported here
20:17<alumno>do you undestand me petn-randall?
20:17-!-artista_frustrado [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
20:17<alumno>is based in DEBIAN 7
20:18<abrotman>alumno: This channel only supports Debian, feel free to install Debian
20:18<petn-randall>!based on
20:18<dpkg>Your distribution may be based on and have software in common with Debian, but it is not Debian. We don't and cannot know what changes were made by your distribution (compare #debian only supports Debian; please respect our choice to volunteer here to help Debian users. Support for other distributions is off-topic on #debian, even if your own distro's channel is clueless or non-existent.
20:19<petn-randall>^^^ alumno
20:19<alumno>basically is Debian 7
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20:19<dpkg>well, huayra is an derivative of Debian developed in Argentina. It is not supported in #debian; ask me about <based on debian>. Este canal es de soporte tecnico en Ingles para Debian. Solo Debian es soportado en #debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en espanol, por favor ingrese a #debian-es con /join #debian-es tecleado en la linea de chat.
20:19<abrotman>worst factoid ever ...
20:19<petn-randall>alumno: Unfortunately it's not, and we don't have the resources to check.
20:19<abrotman>no idea why we send them to #debian-es
20:20<abrotman>alumno: #huayragnulinux on
20:20<alumno>ok boys thank you very match! Good Year for Yours!!
20:22<petn-randall>alumno: Sorry we couldn't be of much help, and good luck with your endeavours.
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20:22<alumno>thank you petn-randall, abrotman
20:23<petn-randall>abrotman: Not sure, isn't it saying that spanish debian support is in #debian-es? Would be a bit off-topic, but technically not wrong.
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20:24<alumno>ok I understand petn-randall
20:24<abrotman>petn-randall: it is wrong
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20:26<william1>I ran apt-get remove bittorrent and used a magnent link and transmission still opens.
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20:28<petn-randall>william1: bittorrent and transmission are two different programs.
20:29<petn-randall>alumno: why what?
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20:29<william1>petn-randall: how do I remove transmission? When I do a search for applications in kde bittorrent points to transmission and now my newly installed ktorrent. apt-get remove transmission finds nothing.
20:32<stderr_dk>Or transmission-gtk or transmission-qt
20:32<alumno>sorry petn-randall , I see the response of abrotman. no problem
20:32<william1>stderr_dk: still non of those exist.
20:33<nevyn>petn-randall: it propagates errors into #debian-es
20:34<william1>I am using Debian Jessie. I could have sworn I originally installed it with apt-get install bittorrent and even when I install that again there are only transmission and ktorrent.
20:34<stderr_dk>william1: Testing support is in #debian-next
20:35<stderr_dk>You could try dpkg --get-selections | grep transmission or apt-cache search transmission to get some ideas about what the package might be called.
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20:40<me>i need help understanding the /etc/sources.list file
20:40-!-bulletproof [~bulletpro@2001:41d0:8:b330::1] has joined #debian
20:41<petn-randall>Hi me, it's documented in 'man sources.list'.
20:41<me>if I add "main contrib non-free" will apt make sure that main has a higher priority over contrib, contrib higher than non-free, etc.?
20:42<stderr_dk>A package is either in "main" XOR "contrib" XOR "non-free". Never in two or more of those.
20:42<abrotman>me: they don't include the same packages, not an issue
20:42<me>what about when it comes to dependencies...?
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20:43<abrotman>me: in what sense?
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20:44<stderr_dk>me: You mean "foo" depends on either "bar" or "baz" or "qux", where "bar" is in "main" and "baz" is in "contrib" and "qux" is in "non-free"?
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20:45<me>stderr_dk : yes, something like that...
20:45<abrotman>Packages in main cannot depend on packages in contrib or non-free
20:46-!-freedomrun [] has quit [Quit: So long and thanks for all the fish]
20:46<me>I need to install some firmware-realtek for wireless, and I want to make sure no other packages from contrib or non-free get pulled in...
20:47<me>up until now i have not included "contrib non-free" at the end of repos in my sources.list file just to make extra sure apt doesn't go there...
20:47<abrotman>so try it
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20:49<me>ok, got it. thanks for the info guys...
20:50-!-alumno [~alumno@] has joined #debian
20:51<me>oh, one last thing... do you know if the repo has a higher priority than all the others? How do I make sure that my packages get the security packages?
20:51<stderr_dk>Higher version number.
20:53<me>Would you recommend running apt-get install again on my package list or apt-get upgrade?
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20:53<stderr_dk>If you want to upgrade? upgrade.
20:53<abrotman>dpkg: version compare
20:53<dpkg>The canonical way to test whether one version string is considered greater than another is by testing an assertion such as «dpkg --compare-versions 1.1 gt 1.1~rc1 && echo true». See also , <version epoch>, <debian revision>.
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20:56<me>So if I understand correctly, apt-get upgrade causes all of your packages to be upgraded without installing any new packages, whereas apt-get dist-upgrade can add more packages into the mix?
20:58<stderr_dk>That is pretty much what the manpage says.
20:58<stderr_dk>dist-upgrade might remove packages too.
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21:04<me>does anyone know when iceweasel 24 will come to wheezy?
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21:06<abrotman>me: seems it already has 26?
21:07<me>abrotman: When I installed it yesterday from the repo it pulled in 17.
21:07<abrotman>me: see
21:07<me>experimental has version 26
21:09<me>abrotman : thanks for the link, awesome.
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21:10<abrotman>me: you don't want experimental
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21:15<SamB>abrotman: are you sure that's not what m.d.n said to do for that version?
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21:31<larkw>Hi. I noticed some packages disappeared from jessie(testing) when I did apt-get dist-upgrade some days ago. They are still missing though. Something happened?
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21:31<larkw>in my case: freeradius, smokeping
21:32-!-darkbasic [] has joined #debian
21:32<abrotman>larkw: that's part of running testing, sometimes packages have to be removed, they'll be rebuilt with neweer versions and then filter down
21:32<abrotman>judd: versions smokeping
21:32<judd>Package: smokeping on i386 -- squeeze: 2.3.6-5+squeeze1; squeeze-security: 2.3.6-5+squeeze1; sid: 2.6.8-2; wheezy: 2.6.8-2; experimental: 2.6.9-1~exp0
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21:33<oldlaptop>having sid sources is nice for this kind of stuff
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21:33<oldlaptop>apt-get source -b -t sid <foopackage>
21:33<oldlaptop>(or is it -t=sid)
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21:35<larkw>abrotman: my assumption is newer version in and older version out. this assumption is not correct then?
21:35-!-oqmecr [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:36<abrotman>larkw: eventually, yes, that's what will happen
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21:39<oldlaptop>larkw: there can be odd issues in testing sometimes as a result of migration policy
21:40<larkw>abrotman: newer freeradius version is not in however, and my wifi EAP-TLS was broken and I had to build freeradius myself from sid source.
21:42<SamB>larkw: there's a new thing where packages get autoremoved from testing ...
21:42<larkw>oldlaptop: I do understand something will stop working, but not expect packages missing :(
21:43<oldlaptop>well you should :P
21:44<oldlaptop>to be blunt
21:44<oldlaptop>testing isn't really meant to be a useful system itself, it just happens that the process of producing a new stable has a rolling-release system as a byproduct
21:44<larkw>oldlaptop: in this situation, something should be replacing freeradius, but I can't figure it out. That is why I am confused.
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21:47<oldlaptop>there's been an open RC bug on it for seven months
21:49<larkw>I see
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21:50<larkw>this is really bad. I run testing for my home server, and plan to switch our company's server farm to testing in April or May
21:50<sney>well, that's a bad plan, basically
21:50<sney>don't run testing in production
21:50<oldlaptop>that's what stable is for
21:50<sney>unless you don't really need to rely on it, anyway
21:51<larkw>we run testing, stable, testing, stable iteration.
21:51<oldlaptop>it's stable, stuff like this doesn't happen to it
21:51<oldlaptop>that's the point
21:51<mac>I have a usb with a virus on it if i was to put the usb into my computer and give the command dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda would that clean the usb and remove or formate the usb stick?
21:51<oldlaptop>mac: that would kill all data on the USB stick
21:51<larkw>when we think testing is 'stable' enough, we upgrade to testing
21:51<mac>dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda bs=1M sorry
21:51<oldlaptop>make absolute sure there's nothing you care about on it
21:52<mac>oldlaptop thank you very much
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21:52<oldlaptop>you would *not* have a valid filesystem on that USB stick of course
21:52<mac>oldlaptop there isnt i am going to be setting up a new system all together after this problem and i was planning on cleaning all of my usb's
21:53<mac>oldlaptop i would have to go into gparted and format the usb's back to FAT32 right?
21:53<sney>larkw: it's not insane to do that *after* the freeze and after any big transitions are done. the freeze is currently planned for november 5th. I would not deploy testing on anything that needs to be reliable before this date.
21:53<sney>larkw: on the topic of freeradius, maybe try fixing that RC bug.
21:54<mac>oldlaptop thank you very much just waned to make sure that would remove any virus (Well it is more of a trojan) but just wanted to make sure it would take care of anything on it
21:55<mac>oldlaptop thank you have a good night.
21:55<oldlaptop>you too
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21:56<larkw>sney: thanks, your information is very helpful :)
22:00<oldlaptop>it's just important to realize that testing breaks - that's its job
22:00<oldlaptop>you get to keep both pieces when it does
22:01<abrotman>larkw: you understand there is *no* security support for Jessie currently?
22:01<abrotman>larkw: and there won't be any in April either
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22:02<stderr_dk>What are Debians plans regarding nagios-plugins vs. monitoring-plugins? I haven't seen anything on any of the mailinglists I'm on.
22:03<abrotman>stderr_dk: eh, why does it matter?
22:03<omixam>I need help with Dell wifi...
22:03<SamB>are those conflicting packages?
22:03<abrotman>SamB: read the news
22:03<stderr_dk>It would be interesting to know if Debian are going to use the plugins from Nagios or the plugins from the original team.
22:04-!-ender__ [] has joined #debian
22:04<abrotman>ugh ...
22:04<SamB>is this like SCO vs SCO
22:04<abrotman>SamB: read the damn article
22:04*SamB is waiting for it to load
22:04<abrotman>If you don't know enough to comment, please don't
22:05<larkw>abrotman: yes. we run a base system with some extra packages, so security support is not critical. Actually, we monitor 3 things: nginx, libc and kernel
22:05<omixam>I installed and configure ndiswrapper but my wifi not work yet...
22:05<abrotman>larkw: and it's exposed to the internet?
22:05<abrotman>omixam: you don't need ndiswrapper
22:05-!-yuyu [] has joined #debian
22:06<omixam>This is the method recomended by Debian.... What other way I have?
22:06<SamB>er, */dev/sda* ??? I don't think it's a good idea to erase that ...
22:06<abrotman>omixam: where?
22:06<larkw>I think only ssh, nginx is exposed, all other services listen on intranet ports
22:06<abrotman>larkw: that doesn't make it okay ...
22:06<SamB>larkw: intranet can have security problems too ...
22:07-!-koanhead [~smuxi@] has joined #debian
22:07<larkw>SamB: yes.
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22:08<larkw>we do monitor local priviledge escalation exploits.
22:08<omixam>in this wiki
22:08<abrotman>yeah, 0-day never happens
22:08<abrotman>omixam: no, where does it say that for your device?
22:08<larkw>services run under non-root accounts
22:09<abrotman>larkw: right, because priv escalation never happens
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22:10<Beny_hm>debian have cinnamon 2.0?
22:10<Beny_hm>or not?
22:10<abrotman>stderr_dk: I've only seen a little mention of it .. you might want to file a bug on the nagios-plugins metapackage
22:10<omixam>Not specified for my device... Is a generic wiki...
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22:11<abrotman>omixam: So again, don't use Ndiswrapper, find the driver for oyur card
22:11<abrotman>Beny_hm: no
22:11<larkw>abrotman: there were some, kernel bugs. It happended in 2011-2012 time frame.
22:11-!-ender_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:11<Beny_hm>abrotman: :( why ¡?
22:11<abrotman>Beny_hm: because you haven't packaged it yet
22:11<Beny_hm>u_u so sad
22:11<abrotman>larkw: uh .. They happen all the time
22:12-!-nchallak [] has joined #debian
22:12<abrotman>Beny_hm: apparently, oh well
22:12<Beny_hm>cinnamon 2.0 is really good
22:12-!-ender_ [] has joined #debian
22:12<abrotman>Beny_hm: so quit whining and package it for debian
22:12<omixam>I have the driver... But is Windows driver. How can I installed in debian?
22:12<Beny_hm>i dont know how compile
22:12<Arrowmaster>if you dont i might, just got laid off friday so ive got the free time
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22:12<abrotman>omixam: no, you don't do that
22:13-!-mode/#debian [+l 626] by debhelper
22:13<stderr_dk>Beny_hm: Or convince someone else to do it. Giving them money to do so might help.
22:13<abrotman>Beny_hm: okay, then I guess you'll have to wait, or be patient.
22:13<abrotman>erm .. wait or find another distro
22:13<Beny_hm>yea i gona be patient
22:14<Beny_hm>actualy i use manjaro, but have somting bugs
22:14<omixam>How can I install wifi for my laptop?
22:14<abrotman>Beny_hm: this isn't a support channel for Manjaro
22:14<abrotman>omixam: what device is it?
22:14<oldlaptop>omixam: we can't tell you
22:14<Beny_hm>nop but, i arrive here questioning for debian or not?
22:14<Arrowmaster>Beny_hm: if you are willing to trust them, heres cinnamon 2.0 compiled for debian
22:14<oldlaptop>we have no idea what your laptop is or what wireless device is in it
22:14<abrotman>Beny_hm: Not for Manjaro
22:15<abrotman>Beny_hm: use #manjaro on for Manjaro
22:15<Beny_hm>Arrowmaster: Thank you so much
22:15<abrotman>Arrowmaster: he's not even using Debian .. poor idea
22:15<Beny_hm>abrotman: what is the problem? all are gnu/linux
22:15<Arrowmaster>oh hes not?
22:15-!-chitchat [~guest@] has joined #debian
22:15<abrotman>Beny_hm: this channel is for Debian, not "all linux":
22:16<omixam>Intel® Centrino® Wireless-N 1030 (1x2 bgn + Bluetooth)
22:16<Beny_hm>and i do one question
22:16<Beny_hm>fOR debian!
22:16<abrotman>Beny_hm: about what?
22:16<Beny_hm>what is the problem?
22:16<abrotman>omixam: you probalby just need the iwlwifi-firmware package
22:16<Beny_hm>and you dont help me and Arrowmaster he helpme very nice
22:16-!-twb [~twb@] has joined #debian
22:16<abrotman>Beny_hm: this channel does not support Manjaro, only Debian
22:17-!-mode/#debian [+o abrotman] by ChanServ
22:17-!-mode/#debian [+q *!*@] by abrotman
22:17-!-mode/#debian [-o abrotman] by abrotman
22:17<abrotman>Beny_hm: please use #manjaro on for Manjaro support, have a nice day.
22:17<twb>I have a wheezy system with xfce4 and alsa-base installed. "aplay foo" works, but vlc and something called "Mixer" in the menu insist they can't talk to the sound card.
22:17-!-jeep_ [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:17<oldlaptop>well... he *did* join to ask an obviously Debian specific question
22:18<omixam>Let try....
22:18<abrotman>oldlaptop: feel free to msg him and help him with Manjaro
22:18<abrotman>it is not a topic for this channel
22:18<twb>My current suspicion is they default to using pa, which I don't want. Is there a setting somewhere to say "just bloody use alsa" ?
22:18<abrotman>Just blood use PA? :)
22:19-!-jeep_ [] has joined #debian
22:19<twb>I don't want to since AFAICT it is bloat with zero value add.
22:19<twb>Plus I have an irrational hatred of Lennart.
22:19<abrotman>twb: Have you met jhutchins?
22:19<twb>I have not.
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22:19<twb>I suppose as a test I could try installing pa which would confirm the problem is apps assuming pa.
22:20-!-rostam [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:20<abrotman>He's also afraid of new things, says LVM is poison and ext3 is an unstable filesystem ...
22:20<twb>I don't hate lennart's stuff because it's new, I hate it because it claims to solve problems that I don't have.
22:20<abrotman>twb: At least test it with PA, modern systems shouldn't have a problem with the extra layer. How are they refusing to talk to the sound card?
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22:21<Arrowmaster>i think theres at least enough other people involved with systemd that lennart cant fuck it up too badly
22:21<twb>abrotman: vlc says "the audio device "default" could not be used: No such file or directory"
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22:21<abrotman>They all say taht ?
22:21<Arrowmaster>twb: look through the settings, you should be able to change it to alsa
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22:22<twb>Mixer says "GStreamer was unable to detect any sound devices"
22:22-!-rostam [] has joined #debian
22:22<Arrowmaster>in vlc, under preferences then audio and an output dropdown
22:22<abrotman>twb: did you uh, that, yes
22:23<twb>If I try that and click "Save" it does the same thing.
22:23<twb>If I open the preferences panel again, it's back to "Default"
22:24<abrotman>try what? what do you select?
22:24<twb>Hang on
22:24<twb>I'll move the computers closer together :-)
22:24-!-chitchat [~guest@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:25<twb>OK for vlc, Preferences > Audio > Output module was "Default", I changed it to "ALSA audio output". Then another dropdown appears "Device:" which defaults to "Default", the only other option being "Discard all samples (playback) or generate zero samples (capture)".
22:25<omixam>abrotman: a lot of thanks...
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22:26<twb>If I leave Device: Default, click "Save" then try to open an MP3 I get as before "Audio output failed: The audio device "default" could not be used: No such file or directory.".
22:26<Arrowmaster>and the default alsa devices doesnt work....
22:26<omixam>I'm dev How can I contribute with Debian Programers?
22:27<twb>I'm now thinking the "default" in the error output, relates to the alsa device not the output method.
22:27<Arrowmaster>but aplay works?
22:28<twb>Well to be precise, "aplay foo.mp3" makes horrible noises. That's because aplay only knows about PCM.
22:28<oldlaptop>[22:21:29] <Arrowmaster> i think theres at least enough other people involved with systemd that lennart cant fuck it up too badly
22:28<oldlaptop>it's an abomination already! *ducks into flameproof bunker*
22:28<twb>And alsamixer can see the card and a bunch of channels.
22:29<Arrowmaster>twb: theres some default wav files installed you can test with
22:29-!-Beny_hm [~Benyhm@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:30<twb>I just made one with festival; it plays correctly in aplay
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22:31<twb>Opening the PCM in vlc fails with the same error as before (as you'd expect).
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22:31<abrotman>So perhaps it's not obeying preferences?
22:32<twb>Aha, this is more useful.
22:32<Arrowmaster>you may have to create an ~/.asoundrc
22:32<twb>"su nobody -c 'vlc tmp.pcm'" says it's trying to open /dev/dsp
22:32<twb>Ah that's *after* alsa output fails and it falls back to oss. So not helpful.
22:32<twb>Lemme paste it anyway.
22:32<Arrowmaster>manually forcing default to a certain device
22:33-!-Rcart [~rcart@] has joined #debian
22:33<twb>Card zero is definitely there -- alsamixer -c0 can see it
22:33<stderr_dk>twb: nobody is probably not in the audio group. That would explain why it can't open /dev/dsp.
22:33-!-bhurstpdx [~bhurstpdx@2601:8:ab80:126:d63d:7eff:fe94:5af5] has joined #debian
22:34<twb>stderr_dk: you can ignore the /dev/dsp -- I'm not installing alsa's oss compat so that's not meant to work anyway. It's a legacy interface for things that can't speak ALSA
22:34-!-lel [] has joined #debian
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22:34<lel>much lel
22:34<twb>stracing to find out what confmisc.c is trying to do is probably the next step.
22:35<stderr_dk>Ok, let me rephrase it then... nobody is probably not in the audio group. That would explain why it can't open "whatever audio stuff you want it to use".
22:35<abrotman>lel: do you need help with Debian?
22:35-!-lel [] has quit []
22:36<stderr_dk>I think that's a "no".
22:37<twb>stderr_dk: that is a good point, sorry I didn't listen to begin with :-)
22:38<abrotman>twb: problem solved?
22:38<stderr_dk>How? What? Where?
22:38<twb>Now my problem is that the GUI users come out of LDAP, and "audio" doesn't. This is probably why everyone uses pa :-/
22:38<twb>stderr_dk: "adduser nobody audio" then "su nobocy -c 'vlc tmp.pcm'" works
22:38<abrotman>twb: can't you teach ldap about the audio group ?
22:39<twb>I probably can get away with that, since it's a gid <100 so guaranteed to be the same on all Debian systems.
22:39<abrotman>not sure about guaranteed, but likely
22:39<twb>It's guaranteed by policy IIRC.
22:39<abrotman>You could use some config mgmt like puppet or chef to enforce that
22:39<abrotman>twb: someone with root could change it on the system, right ?
22:40-!-omixam [~omixam@] has quit [Quit: Saliendo]
22:40<oldlaptop>they can change it back when they notice that kills their audio
22:40<abrotman>if they notice ..
22:40<twb>But being guaranteed just means it's not going to randomly explode because in the next release it has a new name or gid
22:40<abrotman>or if they put 2+2 together
22:41<twb>Inmates don't get root privs anyway.
22:41<abrotman>that's not a nice thing to say about your co-workers :)
22:41<twb>They're not coworkers, they're inmates in a prison.
22:41<abrotman>friends of yours? :)
22:41<twb>An actual prison.
22:42<oldlaptop>inmates get debian boxes?!
22:42<stderr_dk>twb: Yes, but are they friends of yours? :-)
22:42<twb>Currently they get Ubuntu 10.04
22:42<oldlaptop>I call cruel and unusual punishment
22:42<twb>stderr_dk: AFAIK no
22:42<twb>Well before that they had Windows
22:42<oldlaptop>oh dear
22:42<stderr_dk>Doesn't make it much better...
22:43<znalo>porridge and gnome2
22:43<Arrowmaster>twb: btw if you arent going to spend the time setting up alsa to use dmix you might as will just use pulseaudio
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22:44<Arrowmaster>unless the part where its 'supposed' to automatically use dmix if you need it actually works for you
22:44<Arrowmaster>(it didnt for me)
22:44<twb>dmix as in the software mixer?
22:45<twb>I don't really care if inmates can't listen to music *and* have a woosh noise when they minimize a window
22:45<twb>which afaik is the main use case for >1 sound at a time
22:45*abrotman wonders about these woosh noises
22:45-!-dvs [] has joined #debian
22:45<Arrowmaster>well without it setup flash likes to steal focus and not let it go until you close the browser
22:46*oldlaptop burns a flash logo
22:46<twb>They aren't getting flash if I can help it
22:47<stderr_dk>Arrowmaster: I see we're back at cruel and unusual punishment...
22:47<Arrowmaster>now that really is cruel and unusual punishment, no flash means no redtube
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22:48<oldlaptop>they also have an html5 player or something now
22:48<stderr_dk>Arrowmaster: I have... ehm... heard... that other of those sites use proper video codecs.
22:48<vijay>Is this the place to discuss about python development application?
22:49<abrotman>vijay: there's #python on freenode, or if you're mean Debian packaging for python, there's #debian-python
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23:00<SamB>hmm, our nagios-plugins package still seems to point to the sourceforge project anyway ...
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23:29<nfisher>Hi all! i have a little problem with my soundcard-setup here on my wheezy box.. thing is i have 2 Souncards: 1 onboard (seemingly not deactivateable via BIOAS) and a pci EMU10k1.. now alamixer isnt listing the Souncard, but lspci is.. what can i do?
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23:42<me>In wheezy - has anyone here been able to configure an external monitor. Where the desktop is extended. Currently I am only able to clone my desktop.
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23:44<stderr_dk>me: xrandr --output VGA1 --right-of LVDS1 --preferred seems to work for me.
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23:45<stderr_dk>Run xrandr without any arguments to find the correct names for your screens.
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---Logclosed Mon Jan 20 00:00:05 2014