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#debian IRC Logs for 2014-02-16

---Logopened Sun Feb 16 00:00:54 2014
---Daychanged Sun Feb 16 2014
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00:16<elcapo_>see you tomorrow bye
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00:48<colt>Are there ways to change the screen resolution in text-only mode? (no X)
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00:55<phillipsjk>!fbcon resolution
00:55<dpkg>fbcon resolution is probably run "aptitude install hwinfo && hwinfo --framebuffer" as root, choose a mode from the resulting list of available modes. The mode will be named in hex, something like 0x305. Edit /boot/grub/menu.lst and find the line that starts with "# kopt=" and add "vga=0x305" (substituting your chosen mode), then run "update-grub" and reboot.
00:55<phillipsjk>I think that will use VGA fonts though.
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00:57<colt>dpkg: there is no /boot/grub/menu.lst adding that in grub itself causes warnings about "deprecated features" and "gfxpayload."
00:57<dpkg>colt: I think you lost me on that one
00:58<colt>dpkg: What do you mean? I lost _you_?
00:58<dpkg>no idea, colt
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00:59<colt>Oh. It's a bot.
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00:59<colt>He. I knew that.
01:01<colt>phillipsjk: Is there some other way it is supposed to be done now? The output of "linux ... vga=0xNNN" seems to indicate this is the case.
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01:06<phillipsjk>colt the factoid may be out-of date, I don't know.
01:07<themill>/etc/default/grub for grub2
01:07<phillipsjk>The Fbconsole looks like you can sett almost any valid video mode.
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01:27<sreyan32>what is the command to show all the installed packages ONLY in a debian system ?
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01:28<themill>«aptitude search '~i!~M'» although that will also include packages installed by the installer itself
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01:42<sreyan32>does oracle java conflict with openjdk ? because i need oracle java for oracle database installation
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01:45<sreyan32>why do I have both icedtea jre and openjdk jre ? they were both installed as dependencies but shouldnt they conflict with each other ?
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01:48<sreyan32>anyone here ?
01:49<Nemoder>isn't icedtea just the browser plugin component?
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01:53<sreyan32>Nemoder, I dont know checking
01:54<sreyan32>Nemoder, I dont think that is a browser plugin since I cant run java from Iceweasel
01:55<sreyan32>Nemoder, the only plugin I have is shockwave Flash
01:55<sreyan32>does oracle java conflict with openjdk ? because i need oracle java for oracle database installation ?
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02:00<Nemoder>java -version will say which is set to default
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02:05<sreyan32>openjdk is set to default. how to I change the default ?
02:05<sreyan32>Nemoder, What is Iced Tea ? Is it a part of open jdk ?
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02:07<rigved>!tell sreyan32 about icedtea-plugin
02:07<sreyan32>rigved: didnt get any output from any bot ?
02:08<sreyan32>rigved, also iced tea is not working since my browser can't detect it
02:08<rigved>sreyan32: oops. guess the package name is something else.
02:08<rigved>sreyan32: it's a java plugin for web browsers
02:09<sreyan32>rigved, if icedtea is a browser plugin then why isnt it detected in iceweasel ?
02:09<rigved>!info icedtea-plugin
02:09<dpkg>icedtea-plugin: (web browser plugin to execute Java applets (dependency package)), section web, is extra. Version: 1.4.2-1 (sid), Packaged size: 8 kB, Installed size: 35 kB
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02:10<sreyan32>rigved: What is icedtea-jre ? I dont have icedetea-plugin
02:10<sreyan32> ?
02:10<themill>you might need to be a bit more specific than that
02:11<themill>,v icedtea-jre
02:11<judd>No package named 'icedtea-jre' was found in i386.
02:11<rigved>sreyan32: i don't know much about it...i just wanted to help answer your query about icedtea
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02:12<sreyan32>icedtea-6-jre-cacao, icedtea-6-jre-jamvm, icedtea-netx, icedtea-netx
02:12<sreyan32>what are these ??
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02:12<sreyan32>I used apt-get --get-selections to these package names ?
02:12<phantomcircuit_>so i did two things today that somehow resulted in my home partition being reformatted
02:12<sreyan32>What are they used for ?
02:13<themill>each package has a description; apt-cache show packagename
02:13<phantomcircuit_>i installed Mathematica and I installed and then removed octave
02:13<phantomcircuit_>there's nothing obvious in /var/logs to indicate what it was
02:13<sreyan32>themill, just tell me is iced-tea part of open-jdk ?
02:14<sreyan32>themill, also does oracle java conflict with open-jdk ?
02:14<themill>sreyan32: oracle java isn't in debian at all; depends what you mean by "conflict"
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02:15<sreyan32>themill, can I use oracle java instead of open-jdk ? I need oracle java because I need to install oracle database
02:15<themill>yes, that should be possible
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02:16<phantomcircuit_>except no it wasn't a mkfs
02:16<sreyan32>themill, wont that cause problems ? open-jdk jre was installed as a dependency so should'nt that cause errors if I use oracle java instead of it ?
02:16<phantomcircuit_>what the heck
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02:17<themill>sreyan32: you can make packages out of oracle java that integrate into the packaging system
02:17<themill>you might want to ask oracle how to install their non-free software
02:18<sreyan32>themill, sorry for being a noob. but what do you mean ? make packages that integrate into the system ? I planning to remove open-jdk completely and then using oracle java only
02:19<sreyan32>themill, will iced-tea browser plugin work with oracle java ?
02:19<themill>no idea
02:19<themill>I'd have thought you'd want the oracle browser plugin
02:20<sreyan32>themill, any idea if oracle has a browser plugin for linux ?
02:20<themill>no idea, they used to
02:21<sreyan32>themill, what i want to know mainly is that will removing open-jre and using oracle jre cause any dependency errors ?
02:21<sreyan32>themill, or is it possible to use both ?
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04:19<grummund>Hi, i'm having a problem with aptitude safe-upgrade, the error is:
04:19<grummund>A copy of the C library was found in an unexpected directory: '/lib/i386-linux-gnu/'
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04:20<que1>simple question: what timezone does snapshots.debian use?
04:20<grummund>the full output is here -
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04:20<nocturnal>grummund: that file is in no package
04:21<nocturnal>apt-file search /lib/i386-linux-gnu/
04:21<grummund>libc6: /lib/i386-linux-gnu/
04:21<grummund>libc6-dbg: /usr/lib/debug/lib/i386-linux-gnu/
04:21<nocturnal>on wheezy I can't find it
04:22<asdaw>can someone recommend a backup solution for Debian please?
04:22<nocturnal>no wait, sorry, I'm on jessie
04:22<nocturnal>asdaw: rsnapshot
04:22<grummund>this is wheezy
04:22<nocturnal>but I can't find it on my wheezy laptop either
04:22<nocturnal>so maybe you have some repo I don't
04:22<asdaw>nocturnal, taking a look now
04:23<grummund># cat /etc/apt/sources.list
04:23<grummund>deb wheezy main
04:23<grummund>deb wheezy/updates main
04:24<nocturnal>your arch is 386?
04:24<nocturnal>well that explains it
04:24<nocturnal>sorry I don't know why you get that aptitude error
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04:41<grummund>i posted a fuller output here -
04:42<grummund>the error is: A copy of the C library was found in an unexpected directory: '/lib/i386-linux-gnu/'
04:42<grummund>It is not safe to upgrade the C library in this situation;
04:42<grummund>please remove that copy of the C library or get it out of
04:42<grummund>'/lib/i386-linux-gnu' and try again.
04:43<grummund>google found a couple of similar issues but i don't quite follow the solutions
04:44<Nemoder>how did your core libs get dropped from the database in the first place?
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04:47<grummund>i'm not sure but it did run out of disk space some time back which might be related - since then i've had database warnings during upgrades, but this is the first blocker.
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04:52<Nemoder>sounds like /var/lib/dpkg was corrupted or removed
04:53<Nemoder>might be able to rebuild some of it but you may be better off reinstalling
04:54<grummund>any suggestions how to do that?
04:54<grummund>reinstall from scratch is not an option
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04:57<Nemoder>you could try copying the missing list control files from another install of the same version of debian
04:59<Nemoder>but i'm not sure how well that works
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05:04<grummund>this fixed it:
05:04<grummund>dpkg-deb -c /var/cache/apt/archives/libc6_2.13-38_i386.deb | awk {'sub(/^\./,"",$6);sub(/^\/$/,"/.",$6); sub(/\/$/,"",$6); print $6'} > /var/lib/dpkg/info/libc6:i386.list
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05:27<asdaw>i've decided to use rsync for backup, here's my command: rsync -vrhe ssh tobackup/ root@
05:28<asdaw>it works fine, but are there any changes you'd recommend?
05:28<asdaw>maybe encrypting or zipping the files before sending to the remote host
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06:01<que1>simple question: what timezone does snapshots.debian use? I just want to know the exact time the snapshot are taken
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06:07<babilen>que1: i'd assume UTC, but don't really know
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06:09<que1>me too, I'm assuming it's UTC, but I haven't found no documentation with information about it
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06:19<babilen>que1: One moment.
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06:19<que1>sure babilen
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06:21<babilen>weasel: Could you clarify which timezone is being used by snapshot.d.o for que1? We assume it's UTC, but aren't 100% sure.
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06:22<diego21>where are the E17 repositories for debian wheezy?
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06:24<diego21> is broken
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06:27<mjt>diego21: it is
06:27<babilen>diego21: Well, those third-party repositories have nothing to do with us and there is little we can do if they are broken. e17 has *not* been packaged for wheezy and looks tricky to backports. It is, however, in testing and unstable.
06:27<babilen>judd: v e17
06:27<judd>Package: e17 on i386 -- jessie: 0.17.3-3; sid: 0.17.3-3
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06:28<diego21>thanks :)
06:28<mjt>btw, what _is_ e17 anyway? I mean, how it compares with other stuff like gnome or xfce?
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06:29<diego21>i was trying to install cinnamon but I couldnt
06:29<mjt>(or with their window managers)
06:29<diego21>well, I did, but I couldnt setting up my wireless card
06:29<babilen>mjt: it's one of the many different window managers and they finally pulled their shit together to release version 17 after, how long was it?, 12 years
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06:30<mjt>i think i used it some 10 years ago but don't remember any details
06:30<babilen>diego21: cinnamon is also not in wheezy and installing that has very little to do with your wireless card. Is there a specific problem you would like to work on now?
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06:31<diego21>I used mint few days ago and my wireless card was installed easyly
06:31<diego21>now, debian 7 cant do it
06:32<babilen>diego21: And you would like to change that?
06:32<diego21>but ubuntu (mint) is based on debian
06:32<diego21>I cant understand that
06:32<diego21>it should do it too
06:32<babilen>Would you like to get help setting up your wireless adapter on Debian?
06:33<mjt>wifi cards. oh well. i had quite some issues with broadcom card.
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06:33<babilen>okay, are you connected to the internet right now from that box and would you be able to paste output?
06:33<babilen>diego21: ^^
06:33<diego21>i have a broadcom 4352
06:33<diego21>yea... im wired
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06:34<babilen>diego21: Okay, thanks for asnwering my question. What does "lspci -nn|grep -i network" give you?
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06:34<mjt>in order to solve that my issue i had to revert back to 3.2 kernel (from 3.10), and use proprietary wl driver. The oss driver never worked for me.
06:35<que1>I'll be back later babilen, sooner or later I'll find out if it's UTC or not... see you later
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06:35<diego21>network controller: 0280
06:35<babilen>diego21: That is unlikely to be the complete output.
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06:35<diego21>device [14e4:43b1]
06:36<babilen>that too, but it helps
06:36<babilen>judd: pciid 14e4:43b1
06:36<judd>[14e4:43b1] is 'BCM4352 802.11ac Wireless Network Adapter' from 'Broadcom Corporation' with no known kernel module in wheezy or in sid. See also
06:36-!-doe1097 [~doe1097@2a02:2028:198:5361:94:303a:f93e:ec33] has joined #debian
06:36<mjt>apparently judd doesn't know all the details
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06:37<babilen>diego21: Which kernel are you using?
06:37<diego21>mjt: that package doesnt work
06:37<mjt>oh. indeed. brcm*mac does not support this pciid
06:37<mjt>diego21: which package?
06:37<diego21>babilen: 3.2.0-4-amd64
06:39<mjt>if linux mint worked (actually any linux, does not matter which), it'd be nice to know which module it used
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06:40<babilen>diego21: Mind booting any of the distributions and running "lspci -knn|grep -A2 -i network" ?
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06:41<babilen>I guess that it uses the wl driver, which is also packaged in Debian, but it would be good to know which version is needed.
06:41<babilen> is what I am referring to.
06:41<mjt>yes, other distros (eg suse) use wl for this card too
06:41<babilen>Might be worth a try on wheezy (might be all that is needed), but I can't seem to find a single in-tree kernel module that support that PCIID
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06:42<diego21>I cant do it babilen, have no distro installed on my computer
06:42<diego21>just debian 7
06:42<diego21>with any desktop
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06:43<babilen>diego21: Well, try the wl driver. You *might* need a newer version, but it's definitely worth a shot. The fact that "modinfo wl" doesn't seem to list your pciid on wheezy seems to hint at the fact that a newer version is needed.
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06:44<mjt>may also try broadcom-sta-dkms package from jessie if wheezy one wont work
06:44<themill>(are you obliquely saying that I should try to refresh judd's out-of-tree pciid data?)
06:44<mjt>themill: not yet
06:44<babilen>themill: I'd never be so blunt!
06:45<themill>It's been ages since I did so and I bet the crappy scripts I used at the time won't work any more :(
06:45<babilen>diego21: So, I'd try the version in wheezy. I don't *really* expect it to work, but try it. You can then backport the version in sid by following "/msg dpkg ssb" for broadcom-sta-dkms -- That package might *not* compile against the 3.2 kernel in wheezy which means that you have to install a newer kernel (3.12) from wheezy-backports (cf. "/msg dpkg wheezy-backports") too.
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06:46<mjt>it doesn't really need to be backported
06:46<mjt>it should work as-is
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06:47<mjt>and it _does_ compile against 3.2 kernel
06:47<babilen>mjt: Well, a backport simply targets a different release. I very much prefer to be explicit about it and not to mix packages meant for different releases.
06:47<babilen>mjt: Great!
06:48<mjt>no need to backport - i mean, in this very case it just saves extra unnecessary work. But it is an unusual case.
06:48<mjt>we have a few other examples like this - eg, seabios package
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06:50<mjt>babilen: on the contrary, this driver does _not_ work on kernels >= 3.8
06:51<babilen>mjt: I agree on this particular package, but doing so would, generally speaking, teach improper procedures and I'd rather not get in the habit of working like that in here.
06:51<babilen>mjt: *shudder*
06:51<mjt>oh. they fixed it
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06:52*mjt installs this driver on his wheezy system
06:52<gsimmons>mjt: Yup. Upstream finally issued a new version. Which is nice.
06:53<mjt>where it is?
06:53<mjt>i really wish they make their oss driver to work
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07:37<PasqualeNegro>salve a tutti
07:38<dpkg>pasqualenegro: vedi
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07:50<kman>I have installed debian on a usb stick but without wubi, the boot loader. My question is: I don't want install wubi on my HD because I had lots of problems previously. Could I run Debian without wubi or installing it NOT on the PC?
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07:51<kman>actually it doesn't start even trying to run the USB from the bios
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07:53*mjt used usb media alot but never heard about wubi
07:53<faulix>do you have a bios with boot from usb functionality?
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07:53<faulix>and is the boot order correct?
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07:54<mjt>babilen: fwiw, that wl driver (broadcom-sta) - when compiled for 3.10 kernel it does not find any adaptors. With 3.2 kernel it just works.
07:54<Slydder>hey all. does anyone know how to create a cache file like /var/cache/apt/pkgcache.bin? am currently working on a dpkg file permissions cache and would like to try and keep it close to the standard debian dpkg caching system as possible
07:55<mjt>faulix: pretty much every bios in machines made in recent decade can boot from usb... ;)
07:55<mjt>Slydder: you may ask the same question in a few more channels...
07:55<themill>Slydder: dpkg and apt actually use text files for everthing
07:56<mjt>well, {pkg,src}cache.bin are binary files
07:56<mjt>(used by apt)
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07:57<themill>they are routinely thrown away, however. All useful and important information is in text files.
07:57<mjt>one can disable them
07:57<themill>Slydder: /var/lib/dpkg/statoverride may be of interest
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07:57<mjt>but this way every apt-get operation is damn slow
07:58<Slydder>themill: nope. /var/cache/apt/pkgcache.bin and srcpkgcache.bin are both binary files. would like to find out how to make one though. the way apt does it. am looking through the code atm and haven't been able to find it just yet. thought maybe someone here knew something more about it.
07:58<themill>I know what the files are and I know how they are used...
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08:00<Slydder>themill: /var/lib/dpkg/statoverride is not a bad idea. just keep that format. hmmmm.
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08:01<vbnm>Where can you ask questions related to configuration of x11?
08:02<themill>Slydder: I assume you know that almost all files in the packages are root:root with the exception of a very small number of statically allocated uids and gids -- everything else is changed in the maintainer scripts
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08:03<Slydder>yep. but am not just worried about root.root perms. also the actual permission settings for those day when you are hung over and happen to fat finger a chmod -R
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08:04<Slydder>seeing as how dpkg doesn't have a permissions cache like rpm does (which is about the only thing I like about rpm) I thought I would make one.
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08:05<themill>My point is, you need to work out at what point you will record the file ownership and modes since that is not expressed inside the .deb itself.
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08:06<themill>You may also want to consider tracking non-package-owned files in /etc too (although etckeeper is perhaps better for that anyway)
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08:06<Slydder>yeah. thought exactly that same thought. lol
08:07<Slydder>the initial install of this would be a bit hard. but afterwards it's just a matter of keeping up with the new packages being installed.
08:08<themill>So assuming etckeeper is already doing its bit for /etc, you could just look at dpkg -L of what was installed as a post-install hook, I guess.
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08:08<Slydder>exactly and then do a find to get the settings
08:08<Slydder>just a loop through. shouldn't be too bad.
08:09*themill was assuming a few stat calls in perl
08:10<Slydder>can't really tell atm if perl or c would actually bring that great of time diff. will do the initial as a shell script then see how fast/slow it is and go from there.
08:11<Slydder>most of the bash commands to do this have already been optimized. so going from scratch would depend on the amount of data collected i guess.
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08:12<themill>You could probably afford to filter out root:root 0644 (and root:root 0755 from /{,usr}/{,s}bin/)
08:12<themill>it will be updating the db that is costly -- the stat will probably be on kernel cache
08:13<Slydder>take a shot at it and see what happens.
08:13<themill>cool. Now just like pastebinit and debsums, we just need people to install it before they need it.
08:14<Slydder>well. one could do the install and then do a background update (niced down of course to not kill the box).
08:15<themill>nocache ionice ...
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08:15<Slydder>but if one needs it in a hurry it will take a bit to get ready unless it comes preseeded with the base install packages permissions.
08:15<Slydder>which is an option.
08:15<Slydder>actually not a bad idea
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08:16<Slydder>that way only extra packages will need to be added after an install.
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08:17<themill>Slydder: btw filter symlinks from the listing too :)
08:18<Slydder>so. initial cache build, cache update for package and full cache update of all packages as well as purging package from the cache upon deinstall.
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08:19<Slydder>and don't forget the restore perms to original option per file/package/directory whatever.
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08:20<themill>«time for i in /{,usr/}{,s}bin/*; do [ ! -L $i ] && stat -c '%a : %n' $i | grep -v '755 root:root'; done» 4s. Not bad.
08:20<Slydder>with a comment prior to the file listing in the cache containing the package name and version.
08:20*themill wonders what the irc client did to that
08:21<themill>%U:%G got "improved"
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08:21<mjt>please move grep invocation to be outside of loop
08:22<themill>(it was a one liner that got shoved into a loop)
08:22<themill>but I'd have rewritten it in perl by now
08:22<mjt>actually usin find here is much faster
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08:23<themill>iterating on the output of "dpkg -L $package" is actually going to be necessary
08:23<Slydder>mjt: that's what I was thinking. it's already been optimized for such work.
08:23<Slydder>themill: yeah. for a full cache rebuild it will.
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08:24<themill>no, for each package install/remove/upgrade
08:24<Slydder>actually for any install
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08:24<Slydder>it won't
08:24<themill>you'll dump the cache every time?
08:24<Slydder>each package will be commented in the cache
08:25<Slydder># package name - version
08:25<Slydder>file list iwth perms
08:25<Slydder># next package - version
08:25<themill>so you need to iterate on dpkg -L $package and won't be using find(1)
08:25<kman>faulix: well i make it start entering in the bios with f12 then i select manually what i want to run
08:25<Slydder>so just delete from comment to comment
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08:25<Slydder>yeah on install and upgrades
08:26<themill>Slydder: fewer code paths is better
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08:26<themill>btw there's one dark little corner for you to deal with which is files moving from package to package or being removed on upgrades. Make sure that is handled properly!
08:26<Slydder>yeah. on install and upgrade we use a dpkg -L then a find on the results to build the list post install/upgrade.
08:27<Slydder>on remove/purge just delete from cache from comment to comment. faster that way.
08:27<Slydder>or maybe just on purge. on remove there are artifacts. still left on the drive in /etc and /var at times.
08:27<themill>on upgrade, you can't just refresh the list from dpkg -L; you need to delete the old info first
08:28<kman>Can Debian start from the bios or it needs the bootloader?
08:28<Slydder>true true
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08:29<themill>Slydder: the output of dpkg -L automagically handles the removed vs purged case
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08:29<kman>I try to run my USB stick with Debian clicking f12 and selecting the usb but it doesn't start damn. I have not installed any bootloader
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08:30<Slydder>yeah. forgot about that.
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08:32<kman>my question is: I have installed Debian on this Usb stick without any bootloader. How can i make it start? I dunno!
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08:34<devil>kman: what are you trying to achieve?
08:35<kman>i want to try Debian. I have installed it on a Usb stick from a DVD live. How can i make it run?
08:35<faulix>why you don't just use knoppix then?
08:36<devil>kman: you shouild use dd to write the image to the stick and just boot it
08:36<devil>kman: oh, that will not work in that case
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08:36<devil>a vbox install comes to mind
08:36<kman>i have write the image on a dvd
08:37<kman>then i have installed the OS on the Usb Stick
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08:40<kman>i have writed the image on a dvd
08:41<kman>then I have installed the OS on the Usb Stick
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08:42<kman>how should i run it?
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08:43<kman>knoppix and vbox? will check what they r
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08:44<themill>kman: why not just use the live image directly on the usb stick?
08:45<kman>because i don't think will work as a normal os
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08:46<kman>then if i want to save files or edit it i don't think that a live image will hold the modifies. right?
08:46<themill>well running off a usb stick isn't a "normal os" either. What are you really trying to do?
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08:46<kman>learn to use debian
08:46<themill>!persistent live
08:46<dpkg>You can rework the iso-hybrid image that is used with Debian Live (from Debian 7 "Wheezy" onwards) so that you can also use it as persistent storage with the live sessions. See
08:47<themill>(or just work with two different sources -- one (usb stick or dvd) to boot off and a usb stick for data)
08:48<kman>...get it
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08:49<kman>i will try thxx
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09:03<dpkg>ernestoioele: vedi
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09:09<virtualsue>j #debian-women
09:09<virtualsue>gah, this keyboard :-)
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09:25<rivarun>i don't get it. why does every single italian person come here and try this?
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09:36<virtualsue>what, saying ciao?
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09:37<rivarun>virtualsue: and then !list
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09:39<virtualsue>"hi, how's here" in some client favoured by italian speakers perhaps
09:41*virtualsue half apologises for stating the obvious
09:43<abrotman>rivarun: they're looking for warez
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09:43<virtualsue>ah, yes of course
09:44<planetmaker>of course?!
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09:51<virtualsue>bien sûr
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10:31<arco101025>After installing and later purging wine some config files are still messing up my default apps, how do I clean the mess? (Using wheezy, xcfe4)
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10:49<sney>arco101025: wine also keeps some per-user configs in ~/.wine
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11:34<gpunk>hello, I am testing a chatroulette clone on my debian
11:34<gpunk>anyone want to test ? plz
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11:43<arco101025>thanks sney
11:44<arco101025>i just checked, and that directory doesn't exist, it was removed, if i am not mistaken i had removed it manually
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11:47<arco101025>however, there are a buch of ".local/share/mime/application/x-wine-extension*"
11:48<arco101025>would rm-ing them clean it?
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11:49<mtn>arco101025: what apps are messed up?
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11:51<arco101025>i just did removed them, will see if it fixed it
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12:17<Nikon>anyone know how people get hp laptops working with linux?
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12:17<Nikon>like mine overheats really badly
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12:18<sney>I'm on a hp laptop right now with 28 days uptime
12:18<sney>so you'll probably have to provide more details
12:18<Nikon>im on a Envy m6
12:18<Nikon>i can't pwmconfig
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12:19<Nikon>the fan is going full speed but i still hit 90C
12:19<sney>what gpu
12:19<sney>that's an amd, right? are you using the non-free driver?
12:19<Nikon>I was
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12:20<mjt>note that those combine the CPU and the GPU together
12:20<Nikon>free and non-free both do it
12:20<virlly>Is there anybody?
12:20<mjt>so if there's a "stray" cpu-hungry process it will do that
12:20<Nikon>mjt, its at boot, it did it with a live cd too
12:20<sney>virlly: nobody here but us chickens. do you have a debian question
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12:21<Nikon>like, it'll start heating up the second i choose debian
12:21<mjt>note that during bootup (especially while in bios) the cpu usage is the most intensive :)
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12:22<virlly>How do change the lubuntu keyboard distribution?
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12:23<sney>!ubuntuirc virlly
12:23<dpkg>virlly: This is not the Ubuntu help channel. Please do /server and then /join #ubuntu. If you are using XChat, you can right-click the following link and choose connect. irc://
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12:24<virlly>Which distribution of linux is lightest?
12:25<Nikon>any ideas for my over heating issue?
12:25<boras>virlly, compare what?
12:26<boras>virlly, is it for very old computer?
12:26<sney>virlly: whichever one you configure as lightest. that question is nonsense.
12:26<nocturnal>virlly: one distro that makes a niche out of it is DSL
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12:26<virlly>Ye,s is for very old computer...
12:27<nocturnal>then you don't want light, you want old drivers
12:27<virlly>boras: I have an old computer!
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12:27<nocturnal>most likely debian will do fine
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12:28<boras>virlly, can you tell us something like memory and cpu?
12:28<sins>I am a debian user, aparently I also am an idiot and have a rice rocket for a car
12:28<sney>sins: congratulations, do you have a question or are you just trolling
12:28<sins>I cannot choose what software I want myself, debian tech committie has to do it for me.
12:28<sins>systemd is a virus
12:28<virlly>CPU: Pentium III. Memory : 256.
12:28<sins>I do not want to use it
12:28<sins>but I will be forced to because tech-ctte knows best
12:29<sins>and we must all just nod and go along
12:29<sney>sins: then don't use it. openrc and others will still be available for you
12:29<virlly>Processors : 1000
12:29<sney>sins: the choice was for the default, not the only choice
12:29<sins>nope, the systemd guys are intent on removing the sysv scripts
12:29<sney>sins: they still have to maintain something for kfreebsd, which systemd doesn't support
12:29<sins>read the logs, I read every mail log
12:29<boras>virlly, well you need something really light Damn Small Linux is an option
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12:29<sins>the systemd people were and still are pushing for the eventual removal of sysv
12:29<sins>systemd is a virus.
12:29<sney>anyway, since you don't have a support question, please take your bellyaching to #debian-offtopic
12:30<sins>you do not have the right to force it on us
12:30<Zaba>you don't have the right to demand anything from a project supported by volunteers
12:30<sney>I'm not on the ctte so I didn't do anything. I don't know what "you" you're talking to but this is a support channel and most of the DDs are not here
12:30<sins>debian users are not little babies, or idiots, like the systemd people make us out to be
12:30<sney>!ops sins systemd conspiracy theory
12:30<dpkg>Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, ):, helix, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, xk, abrotman, gravity, azeem, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen: sney complains about: sins systemd conspiracy theory
12:30<sins>Zaba: you do not have the right to decide everyone must make systemd files
12:31<boras>virlly, that one is ok for sure nowdays most modern OS need around 512MB Ram to be sure
12:31<sins>Zaba: you do not have the right to decide that sysv scripts will be removed eventually
12:31<sins>SysV works NOW
12:31<sins>you do not have the right to take it out of debian and make us lean your fucking piece of shit medusa
12:31<sins>FUCK SYSTEMD
12:32<Zaba>it depends on your definition of "works". FIre-and-forget isn't a nice way to treat services, generally.
12:32<sins>they are ALWAYS laughing "hahhhah sysv is going to bit rot"
12:32<sney>oh don't engage him
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12:32<sins>Zaba: hardly anyone fucking uses tons of services
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12:35<sney>virlly: sorry about that. debian should work fine on your pentium 3 system. just use a desktop that's not gnome or kde. if you use the netinstall cd, you can choose the desktop environment in the boot menu with Advanced options > Alternative desktop environments
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12:36-!-mode/#debian [+o abrotman] by ChanServ
12:36-!-mode/#debian [+b *!*] by abrotman
12:36-!-SysD_is_Virus was kicked from #debian by abrotman [you should know better]
12:36-!-mode/#debian [-o abrotman] by abrotman
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12:36<abrotman>not dealing with join/part nonsense
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12:37-!-mode/#debian [-q *!*] by ChanServ
12:37<peterS>abrotman: yeah I suppose the joins+parts were starting to get annoying
12:37<boras>He could run debian without sysv :P
12:37<abrotman>we could not comment .
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12:37<Nikon>im back
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12:38<Nikon>Sorry, no sensors were detected.
12:38<Nikon>This is relatively common on laptops, where thermal management is
12:38<Nikon>handled by ACPI rather than the OS.
12:38<Nikon>what do i do now....
12:38<sney>acpitool, maybe?
12:38-!-ultimacogito [~ultimacog@2001:67c:2200:601:bd3d:5520:f34a:e3aa] has quit []
12:39<sney>also, what debian version are you using? have you tried a newer kernel, etc
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12:39<Nikon> Battery #1 : Full, 100.0%, 00:00:00
12:39<Nikon> AC adapter : online
12:39<Nikon> Thermal info : <not available>
12:39<sney>please don't output things directly to the channel
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12:40<Nikon>ill check my kernel right now
12:41<sney>'uname -r' will quickly tell you the kernel version
12:41<Nikon>amd64 c:
12:42<sney>what debian version?
12:42<sney>there is currently no 3.11 kernel in debian. so either you're on testing and you're out of date, or you're not using debian
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12:42<boras>( cat /etc/debian_version )
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12:43<Nikon>testing and out of date
12:43<sney>well, update yourself. there may be some kernel update that includes better thermal management
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12:44<virlly>Thank you so much
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12:45<Nikon>apt-get update atta do it right?
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12:51<boras>Nikon, yes and then apt-get upgrade both as root (su) or sudo then cause of kernel update you will need a reboot
12:51<Nikon>oh also
12:51<Nikon>my pc refuses to turn off
12:51<Nikon>shutdown now as root wont do anything
12:51<Nikon>as a normal user
12:51<Nikon>or even thru gnome
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12:52<Nikon>it just wont turn off unless i use the power button
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12:54<boras>Nikon, even as root? shutdown -h now ?
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12:54<rryoumaa>did you try poweroff
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12:55<Nikon>only shutdown
12:55<Nikon>atleast command wise
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12:59<sney>the combination of shutdown not working plus the thermal issues does make this sound acpi-related
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13:37<Nikon>it is
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13:41<Nikon>still on 3.11-2
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13:41<elcapo>testing unstable dabian
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13:42<Nikon>testing main
13:44<Marillion>Nikon: don't feed the troll
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13:44<Nikon>sorry XD
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13:45<elcapo>i buy a troll for 0.000001 dvc
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13:48<elcapo>What time is it ????
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13:49<nocturnal>what's dvc?
13:50<elcapo>is a fking cryptocurrency like bitcoin
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13:53<Nikon>whats the kernel for jessie atm?
13:54<judd>Available kernel versions are: experimental: 3.13-trunk-686-pae (3.13-1~exp1); sid: 3.12-1-686-pae (3.12.9-1); jessie: 3.12-1-686-pae (3.12.9-1); wheezy-backports: 3.12-0.bpo.1-686-pae (3.12.9-1~bpo70+1); wheezy: 3.2.0-4-686-pae (3.2.54-2); squeeze-backports: 3.2.0-0.bpo.4-686-pae (3.2.51-1~bpo60+1); squeeze: 2.6.32-5-686 (2.6.32-48squeeze4)
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13:54<Nikon>so why cant i get 3.12...
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13:55<Nikon>its testing main contrib non-free right?
13:55<sney>Nikon: maybe you don't have the linux-image-amd64 metapackage installed
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13:56<sney>without that, kernels won't automatically update
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13:58<Nikon>that what im looking for?
13:58<oldlaptop>do you need a realtime kernel?
13:59<Nikon>no idea
13:59<mjt>probably the same but w/o -rt part
13:59<towo`>why you want rt then?
14:00<oldlaptop>if you don't know, you probably don't
14:00<Nikon>that was what popped up in my package manager
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14:00<Nikon>i need the headers too right?
14:00<oldlaptop>sney is talking about a package called linux-image-amd64
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14:01<Marillion>Nikon: no
14:01<oldlaptop>that's a *metapackage*, meaning it doesn't have a kernel in it, it just depends on whatever the latest kernel is
14:01<oldlaptop>(so when they upgrade the kernel, the new one gets pulled in)
14:01<sney>you only need the headers if you have something that requires them, like something that builds a module with dkms
14:01<oldlaptop>dkms brings in headers anyhow, right?
14:02<Nikon>i have the meta, it just didn't upgrade
14:02<sney>it does, but if you already have the dkms package installed and you upgrade the kernel, it'll try to rebuild for the new kernel and fail if the headers aren't present
14:02<oldlaptop>I presume you've made sure the package database is up-to-date? :)
14:02<oldlaptop>sney: good to know
14:02<nocturnal>also dist-upgrade
14:02<nocturnal>I just missed that myself
14:03<nocturnal>got the 3.12 on jessie now
14:04<Nikon>dist upgrade isn't doing anything
14:04<Nikon>but brb
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14:07<Nikon>acpi tool cant find sensors
14:07<Nikon>but i have the 3.12 kernel now
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14:09<Marillion>Nikon: try sensors-detect again
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14:12<Nikon>theres like nothing in /proc/acpi/ either
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14:15<Nikon>that still relevant?
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14:16<Feuerbach>I added a new apt repository. Is there a way I can list/search packages from that repository only with command-line aptitude?
14:17-!-mode/#debian [+l 683] by debhelper
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14:18<sney>Nikon: probably not. RHEL 5 is roughly equivalent to lenny
14:18<Nikon>i also found this
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14:19<sney>that's not even for linux
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14:20<Nikon>its not?
14:20<dun>how does the software update GUI program check its updates? I just fired it up to update chromium-browser via GUI and it only showed available updates after I did 'aptitude update' manually and restarted the GUI
14:20<blackdash>ohai Nikon
14:21<sney>Nikon: it says "freebsd" right there
14:21<Nikon>oh heheh
14:21<sney>Nikon: try the workaround mentioned from the hp site, I guess. worth a shot
14:22<Nikon>would fan always on in my bios cause it?
14:23<sney>cause what? the heat issue? no, fans are for cooling things down
14:25<Nikon>i mean the fan control issue
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14:28<Nikon>well actually
14:28<Nikon>what if its an over all acpi issue
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14:42<Nikon>anyone still here?
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14:43<SynrG>or at least, too exhausted to read the entire hour backlog to figure out what you're asking
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14:45<SynrG>it has been a draining sort of day ... anyway, are you on testing, or what?
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14:47<Nikon>yea im on testing
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14:48<Nikon>im just trying to figure out my acpi issue on my hp
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14:57<SynrG>niko_20010: ok, you know #debian-next supports testing/unstable?
14:57-!-kostaz [] has quit []
14:57<SynrG>sorry, tab completion fail
14:57<SynrG>Nikon just left :p
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14:58<devil>trapped :)
14:58<kostaz>anybody here?
14:59<kostaz>I have a question about installing Berkeley DB 4.8 devel package on Debian Wheezy. Is this the right place to ask?
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15:00<Nikon>overheated again -.-
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15:00<kostaz>Well. The default Berkeley DB version is 5.1 (using apt-get). But I need to use 4.8.30. Is there some Debian prebuild package for that?
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15:04<devil>kostaz: did you check
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15:05<kostaz>Checking now... Thanks.
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15:05<Nikon>i need to populate proc/acpi
15:05<Slydder>hey all
15:05<Nikon>but nothing will come up
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15:07-!-mode/#debian [+l 690] by debhelper
15:08<Slydder>am working on a dpkg permissions cache and am wondering how to best get the package name and hook action into a pre-invoke and post-invoke action. I can get the hook action from env by grep'ing for DPKG_HOOK_ACTION but if there is another way to get both I would be most grateful for any ideas.
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15:17<SynrG>Nikon: ok, you know #debian-next supports testing/unstable?
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15:19<Nikon>i figured this was the ch
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15:31<freesurfing>pas en francais ce canal?
15:32<dpkg>Pour l'aide en francais, veuillez rejoindre le canal #debian-fr. Francophone users: for help in french, please go to #debian-fr.
15:32<freesurfing>ok thanks dpkg
15:32<oldlaptop>dpkg is a bot :)
15:32<dpkg>oldlaptop: I'm not sure, is it larger than a breadbox?
15:32<oldlaptop>and gets confused when you start a message with its name
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15:39<niko_20010>SynrG: i wasn't online when your tab completion fail happened...
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15:40<niko_20010>disconnected from quasselcore
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15:42<kostaz>Well. I tried to install libdb-4.8 ( But it fails due to the conflict with libdb-5.1 which is the default for Debian Wheezy.
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15:43<ompaul>!tell kostaz about bat
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15:45<kostaz>Nevertheless, I see there is the bitcoin 0.8.6 Debian package on Debian snapshots ( And my guess it was compiled with Berkeley DB 4.8. How can I see the compilation log?
15:46<weasel>, if it exists anywhere
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15:48<alfa>hello everybody
15:49<ompaul>kostaz: not putting the stuff the bot asked you for onto the pastebin ... I guess we won't know stuff that is useful
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15:50<alfa>I have a problem with ebook reader sony prs 350 on debian testing: calibre doesn't see the reader, and it seems that debian doesn't recognise the reader
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15:51<alfa>do you have ideas about what I can check about it?
15:52-!-nkukard [] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
15:53<oldlaptop>alfa: have you tried searching the web for information?
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15:53<oldlaptop>there's a good chance someone else has tried to make that work already, and posted information about it online
15:53<alfa>just a little bit
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15:54<oldlaptop>if I had to guess... does that thing use mtp?
15:54<oldlaptop>MTP is supposed to work. Kind of.
15:54<oldlaptop>in practice it's pretty iffy
15:55<alfa>sorry I don't know what is MTP
15:55<alfa>I've found this bug
15:55<oldlaptop>Media Transfer Protocol, IIRC
15:56<oldlaptop>alfa: that bug suggests that it might work if you have the thing connected during boot?
15:56<alfa>before formatting the computer, it recognised the reader, debian read it as a usb disk, and calibre worked fine
15:56<oldlaptop>have you tried that?
15:56<oldlaptop>oh! interesting
15:56<alfa>no, I've just found the bug
15:56<oldlaptop>did you install a different Debian version or something?
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15:57<alfa>perhaps, I don't remember the version of debian I was using before, it was some time ago
15:57<ompaul>unplug and plug in again
15:58<alfa>I already did it a few times
15:58<alfa>using dmesg I can see it there
16:00<ompaul>reboot with it plugged in and see if it works
16:01<alfa>ok I'm going to try it
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16:05<alfa>well, yes, after the reboot, it's working... strange behavior
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16:06<alfa>thanks for you help, oldlaptop and ompaul
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16:08<elcapo_>see you tomorrow
16:09<Gorgor>sorry for trolling the other day like i said before, i get pretty stupid when i'm drinking , but i noticed a file update today on the file command so i checked it out
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16:09<Gorgor>and i don't know if i have to set up some magic numbers for it to work properly or not, but this output confuses with me with ldd
16:09<oldlaptop>alfa: might be nice to confirm the behavior reported in that bug then :)
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16:10<alfa>oldlaptop: how can I do that?
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16:10<oldlaptop>reply to the bug, saying you observe the same behavior
16:10<oldlaptop>I would think :)
16:11<Gorgor> file reports that /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/ is dynamically linked, wile ldd reports that it is statically linked
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16:12<oldlaptop>very strange
16:12<oldlaptop>see that here too
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16:12<Gorgor> here
16:12<oldlaptop>obviously is a pretty unique case
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16:13<oldlaptop>maybe the .so suffix alone makes file decide it's dynamically linked?
16:13<Gorgor>well it's the dynamic linker, /lib64/ is a symlink to the /lib entry
16:13<oldlaptop>I would hope not
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16:13<oldlaptop>not the .so suffix, clearly
16:13<Gorgor>i think file used to be a builtin to bash but i could be thinking of a different thing
16:14<oldlaptop>at any rate `which file` reports the same thing :)
16:15<Gorgor>maybe the suffix does it
16:16<Gorgor>i think it used to be that default programs like /bin/sh would all be statically linked in case somthing goes wrong though
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16:16<Gorgor>my memory's kind of shady
16:16<oldlaptop>the suffix does not do it
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16:16<Gorgor>i'm not sure if file will report any files as being statically linked
16:16<oldlaptop>cp <> /tmp/foo
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16:16<oldlaptop>file still says it's dynamically linked
16:17<oldlaptop>I have a thing I know is statically linked (proprietary game), file says it's statically linked
16:17<oldlaptop>interestingly ldd says something different about it
16:17<oldlaptop>'not a dynamic executable'
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16:18<Gorgor>the apt-get upgrade today upgraded teh libmagic1 that goes with file, 'file-fix CVE-2014-1943 file 5.11/Debian Wheezy, then it mentions 738832
16:19<Gorgor>i'll take a look into that, i don't have a version of file from before to compare it with though
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16:21<oldlaptop>ah, my version of file counts
16:21<oldlaptop>I haven't run an upgrade for a week or so
16:22<Gorgor> here it is, the #738832 in google goes to a osdir website,
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16:22<Gorgor>ok, so your file's also reporting differently than ldd even though it's not upgraded
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16:29<dpkg>Este canal es de soporte tecnico en Ingles para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en espanol, por favor ingrese a #debian-es con /join #debian-es tecleado en la linea de chat.
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16:33<Gorgor>/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/ --verify --list /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/ also reports statically linked
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16:33<Gorgor>so it's not a bash script bug, even though i don't know how to script bash, be awhile till i can look into file's source code and understand what i'm reading
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16:33<oldlaptop>I'd put it down to being a special case
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16:52<Gorgor>dpkg --purge binutils-gold doesn't remove it's manual page
16:52*dpkg drinks a glass of salty water, sticks his fingers down his throat and throws up binutils-gold doesn't remove it's manual page all over gorgor and luxznc2...
16:52<Gorgor>wonder what else it might have left behind
16:54<oldlaptop>dpkg gets really REALLY confused when you begin a message with its name! :P
16:54<dpkg>oldlaptop: You are person #1 to send an unparseable request
16:54<oldlaptop>like that X(
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16:57<csotelo>hello people
16:57<csotelo>just a simmple question
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16:58<csotelo>I am setting a lamp server ( with nginx ) and I have found articules about performance for debdot instead normal packages, wich one is the best, normal packages or dotdeb
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17:00<Gorgor>after removing binutils-gold and purging it it leaves behind manpage for along with the linker program (which is part of binutils-gold)
17:00<Gorgor>but man ld will then point back to ld.bfd
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17:01<oldlaptop>csotelo: nomenclature nitpick: nginx != apache, so it isn't LAMP anymore :)
17:01<csotelo>oldlaptop, just a nomenclature :)
17:01<oldlaptop>I recommend avoiding unofficial packages unless it's absolutely necessary to go elsewhere
17:01<csotelo>I was trying to be clear.. just that
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17:01<csotelo>oldlaptop, thanks a lot.. just is enough for me
17:01<oldlaptop>if the nginx in Debian works for you, why change it?
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17:02<oldlaptop>web server optimization won't matter unless you're running a pretty high-traffic site
17:02<oldlaptop>(which I suppose you may be doing!)
17:02<oldlaptop>but certainly try what's in Debian first
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17:10<Gorgor>ok, so when binutils-gold is installed, will add itself to the installation of the binutils package, so that's why it doesn't get purged upon removal
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17:11<Gorgor>from dpkg -S /usr/bin/ , if you didn't install binutils-gold it probably wouldn't be there though
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17:11<Gorgor>oops, sorry agaoin dpkg
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17:13<Gorgor>that seems kind of sloppy to me, since it's a non-essential utility which is reported to be filled with bugs
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17:14<Gorgor>almost like a trojan, infiltrating the package management system by clinging to a new hierarchy upon installation
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17:26<Gorgor>i see, so there's no problem, i was mistaken
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17:31<Gorgor>ok, good for today, the file thing just had me confused, thanks for the help
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18:02<gethoht>errrg nickserv
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18:02<gethoht>how's everyone this fine afternoon?
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18:06<gethoht>i have a dns issue that is probably incredibly easy to solve but it's escaping me... if I ping a shortname on my local network it resolves fine, if I ping the fqdn it fails.. it is only my debian workstation that is having this issue, all other boxes on my network do not have this issue
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18:07<nevyn>put a . on the end of the fqdn and try again?
18:07<gethoht>no dice
18:08<gethoht>the error is "unknown host" to be specific
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18:08<nevyn>what's the contents of /etc/resolv.conf
18:08<gethoht>resolv.conf looks like the other linux boxen on my network
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18:08<nevyn>so works
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18:09<gethoht>all dns externally works fine
18:09<gethoht>I would think that it's an issue with the dns server, but only only the debian box is being fussy
18:09<bernat>do you use dns resolving for your local network?
18:10<gethoht>i have a bind server that handles that
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18:11<nevyn>gethoht: try host.domain.tld.domain.tld (this should fail
18:11<nevyn>and try using host
18:12<gethoht>host resolves correctly
18:12<gethoht>pinging the double domain fails
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18:13<gethoht>i've googled but can't seem to find the right combination of keywords to produce the right answer
18:13<nevyn>gethoht: host host.domain.tld works??
18:14<nevyn>tyr dig
18:14<nevyn>try dig even.
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18:14<gethoht>yes... host host.domain.tld works just fine and dig @dnsserver host.domain.tld works fine
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18:17<gethoht>the same behavior is exhibited in other apps, i.e. web browsers
18:19<gethoht>i.e. if i type in http://host it works but http://host.domain.tld doesn't
18:19<bernat>do you have resolvconf installed?
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18:20<gethoht>i did not have resolvconf installed, however I just installed it and the behavior is the same
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18:37<nevyn>gethoht: what's in /etc/nsswitch.conf?
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18:50<gethoht>yeah that's what i'm looking at now
18:50<gethoht>i think it's something in nsswitch.conf that's the issue
18:51<nevyn>did you mess with it?
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18:54<nevyn>also check /etc/host.conf
18:54<nevyn>(should be empty)
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18:57<gethoht>well it was nsswitch.conf
18:57<gethoht>the hosts entry had some goofiness
18:57<gethoht>not sure where it came from
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18:57<gethoht>hosts: files mdns4_minimal [NOTFOUND=return] dns mdns4
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18:57<gethoht>i just replaced that with "files dns"
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19:04<gethoht>thanks for your help everyone
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19:07<gethoht>apparently the mdns_ stuff is related to avahi... and coicidentally having a .local instead of a .com makes avahi want to resolve via multicast dns
19:08<themill>if you'd said ".local" rather than ".tld" right at the beginning we'd have known that :(
19:09<gethoht>i see that now
19:09<gethoht>i had no idea that it being .local could effect it
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19:11<gethoht>i'll remember this one, that's for sure
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20:33<steve>anyone know how to autologin
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20:34<Guest250>autologin on solydx
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20:36<Guest250>just installed the xfce one on my laptop
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20:37<Guest250>looking how to set autologin
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20:37<Brigo>i dont use xfce, but it use to be a configuration issue ...
20:38<dpkg>well, solydx is a GNU/Linux distribution <based on debian> with the XFCE desktop environment. It is not supported in #debian.
20:38<Guest250>i think they fixed it but i have to find it
20:39<dragospe>So today, I installed debian, installed steam, added myself as a sudoer, and tried to log out. At which point, something crashed, and I was left with a black, terminal-like screen that said something along the lines of INIT with another line saying INIT at the top that accepted text input, but didn't seem to respond to bash commands. I then forced a shutdown by holding in the power switch, and debian booted into text only mode. I r
20:39<dragospe>I know this is going to be a long shot, but does anyone has a miracle fix?
20:39<Guest250>found it lightdm manager
20:41<Brigo>dragospe: it looks like you have to diferents problems, to power off and to boot into graphic mode ....
20:43<dragospe>Brigo: I'd assume so, but considering they happened immediately one-after-the-other, I'm hoping they're related
20:43<Brigo>dragospe: if the first time you reboot may be not.
20:43<Brigo>what are you graphic card?
20:44<dragospe>Brigo: I'm just grasping here, because I really have no idea where to start troubleshooting when I can't even get a display working.
20:44<dragospe>Brigo: Nvidia GTX 260
20:45<Brigo>dragospe: i first look at /var/log/Xorg.0.lo
20:45<Brigo>dragospe: i first look at /var/log/Xorg.0.log
20:45<Brigo>and search for lines started for EE
20:45<dragospe>I can't even boot, unfortunately
20:45<Brigo>dragospe: but you have console access, dont you?
20:46<dragospe>I did, but that stopped when I tried switching graphics ports
20:46<dragospe>I'm not sure why
20:47<Brigo>switching graphics ports? how?
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20:47<dragospe>Brigo: just removing graphics card and plugging it into my onboard graphics
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20:48<Brigo>and you try to reswitch them without look, yes?
20:49<dragospe>Brigo: at this point I think it's a hardware issue and probably doesnt have anything to do with Debian, but I have no idea what could have gone wrong between debian going on the fritz and me switching from the Nvidia, to the onboard, and back
20:49<dragospe>Brigo: yes, I switched back and I still just get a black screen
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20:50<Brigo>that is really strange, may be some bios misconfiguration?
20:50<nixfox>what's going on
20:51<dragospe>nixfox: oh, you know. Just my daily catastrophic failure. Yourself?
20:51<nixfox>oh, sounds fun!
20:51<nixfox>nm just taking a short break from programming.
20:51<dragospe>Brigo: but removing the CMOS battery should reset BIOS, right?
20:51<nixfox>generally, yes
20:51<nixfox>only warning
20:51<nixfox>be careful
20:52<Brigo>dragospe: yes but default configuration may be wrong
20:52<nixfox>you can fuck up your system if done inproperly.
20:52<nixfox>however 10cents can fix it
20:52<nixfox>there's a hack where you replace the CMOS battery with 10 cents
20:52<nixfox>and then place the CMOS batter back in.
20:52<nixfox>again not safe.
20:52<nixfox>nor recommended.
20:53<dragospe>huh. I might have to try that if nothing else works
20:53<nixfox>read about it first.
20:53<nixfox>it's a hack I learned from my professor of computer science
20:53<Brigo>dragospe: can you see the boot manager (grub) or the bios boot?
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20:54<dragospe>But if I'm stuck with a blank screen on start up using the onboard graphics card, and the default BIOS configuration not working, what are my other options?
20:54<nixfox>and ... you're sure the screen's fine?
20:54<dragospe>Brigo: Nope. I literally do not get any reponse from my monitor when I press the power button. The fans and lights inside the computer go on, but nothing else
20:54<nixfox>stupid question I know but...
20:54<nixfox>you'd be surprised.
20:55<Brigo>nixfox: good point :-)
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20:57<dragospe>nixfox: yeah, I literally had everything working about an hour ago. I installed debian today, added myself a sudoer and installed steam, logged out, and then something crashed and I was left with a full screen terminal-like screen that said INIT at the top. I restarted my computer, and it booted into text only mode. Powered down, figured it might have been Steam fucking up my graphics card, and switched to onboard graphics, but the
20:57<dragospe>nixfox: I then switched back to the Nvidia card, and it still wont display anything
20:58<nixfox>wow that is strange, so it won't even get to
20:58<nixfox>the GRUB
20:58<nixfox>or tell you anything along the lines of Kernel panic
20:58<nixfox>can you still get into BIOS?
20:58<Brigo>dragospe: may be the switching procces damage something ...
20:58<dragospe>I *think* it's booting up and running everything, but I have no way of knowing
20:58<nixfox>it just seems like you might have missconfigured BIOS
20:59<dragospe>Nothing is coming up on the screen
20:59<nixfox>is it a desktop or a laptop?
20:59<dragospe>Brigo: that's actually a very big possibility. It's the only reason I can think that things would just fall apart so quickly without me actually doing anything
20:59<dragospe>nixfox: desktop
21:00<nixfox>and you tried both card ports? so Nvidia and on board
21:00<dragospe>nixfox: yep, same thing with both of em. Which makes me think it has to be a motherboard problem
21:01<Brigo>dragospe: and do you hear strange beep secuence on boot?
21:01<nixfox>I mean generally I'd advise against trying to hard reset the BIOS
21:02<nixfox>by removing the CMOS
21:02<dragospe>nixfox: already did that, though :/
21:02<dragospe>Brigo: nope, no beeps
21:02<nixfox>You have to be careful as hell, I fucked up my old computer totally by doing that
21:03<nixfox>it's super sensetive.
21:03<dragospe>Is there *any* way debian could have caused some sort of hardware failure with the motherboard when it crashed and gave me that "INIT" screen? If I knew my motherboard was blown either as a cause or result of the "INIT" crash, or as a result of me fucking with the CMOS, I'd just purchase another one or possible get it under warranty or something
21:04<dragospe>but I don't have the money to buy an entire other set of components to try to figure out which one might be causing the problem
21:04<dragospe>nixfox: I figured as much :/
21:04<nixfox>I mean there's always a chance
21:04<nixfox>that it could have
21:04<nixfox>but it's rare
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21:05<nixfox>here's a good guide
21:05<nixfox>also, if the motherboard is broken you can usually tell
21:05<nixfox>just by looking at the LED
21:06<dragospe>nixfox: Already tried that link
21:06<nixfox>unless really old most MotherBoards have a LED to indicate all possible problems.
21:06<nixfox>so right now we're stabbing in the dark here.
21:06<nixfox>We don't quite know what's wrong, could be anything
21:07<dragospe>does the cmos battery NEED to be replaced with a new one?
21:07<dragospe>Or can I just replace the same one?
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21:07<nixfox>did you touch it?
21:07<nixfox>with your bare hands
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21:07<dragospe>nixfox: ...yes. Should I not have?
21:08<Brigo>dragospe: yes :-/
21:08<nixfox>it's not generally a good idea
21:08<nixfox>it can't handle static very well.
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21:09<Brigo>i lost several harware doing it. And i know it :-)
21:10<nixfox>and we all give off some static electricity it's what gives us the sensation of feel and touch, it's just electrons reacting to other electrons really.
21:10<dragospe>Ahhhhh. I just read the ESD disclaimer on the CMOS link. It wasn't there on the first link...
21:10<nixfox>and to make this short, the CMOS might get a bit too much of that static
21:10<nixfox>and that might just cause it to fail
21:10<dragospe>Right, right.
21:11<nixfox>generally, I'd advise the use of plastic tools and making sure you're not grounded or have it touch anything metal
21:12<dragospe>I'm going to try to do some more diagnostics if I can figure it out. Thanks to both of you for your help!
21:12<nixfox>if it's the CMOS and I hope it's not
21:12<nixfox>you might need to replace it
21:15<nixfox>Anyhow, I have a question of my own
21:16<nixfox>so I switched from Arch to Debian a while ago
21:16<nixfox>and I kiiiiinda miss the colourised output on the package manager
21:17<Brigo>i never used it :-)
21:17<nixfox>pacman was more readable since it colorized the statuses and packages
21:17<nixfox>never used what?
21:17<Brigo>colors on dpkg or apt
21:18<nixfox>would be a nice option
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21:19<Brigo>themill: can aptitude be colorized?
21:20<nixfox>as far as I know no..
21:21<Brigo>nixfox: and you are asking about colors on package manager, i think
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21:22<nixfox>yes if anyone knows of a way to do that
21:22<Brigo>well, not me, sorry :-/
21:22<nixfox>without me rewriting the apt source for myself
21:22<nixfox>since that would be less then optimal
21:22<Brigo>nixfox: agree :-)
21:23<themill>if you run "aptitude" you will find that it uses colour extensivgely
21:23<nixfox>not quite
21:23<nixfox>what I had in mind
21:23<Brigo>not my one
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21:24<nixfox>he means just aptitude without any params
21:24<nixfox>to run the terminal "ui" instance of aptitude
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21:24<cae>can anyone set tags on the BTS or just the first submitter, the maintainer or some other special person?
21:24<nixfox>like I said not quite what I had in mind.
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21:25<themill>cae: anyone can set tags -- maintainers who disagree with the tags set by non-maintainers can get grumpy though.
21:26<Brigo>ah, ok, I has never do it :-D
21:26<nixfox>can you blame them though.
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21:26<cae>themill: ok, thanks... now I'm confused, because I sent to an existing bug 'tag $id + patch\nthanks' and nothing seems to happen
21:27<themill>cae: if you're wanting to work with some maintainers on the packages, then perhaps talk to them about bug triage first
21:27<themill>cae: how long ago? which bug?
21:27<themill>(and yeah, if you're attaching a patch, then tagging it patch is a good idea)
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21:36<nixfox>hmm I wonder how easy making your own package manager could be
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22:39<rryoumaa>i have a strange problem that only seems to occur on debian. i have this shell script . when i synchronously call it from the shell, it returns immediately as expected. when i call it from emacs dired using !, it does not return. it hangs emacs. clues please.
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22:41<rryoumaa>so even though the shell script has & in it, it does not exit. how is that possible?
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22:44<sney>something to do with how emacs handles/understands fg and bg? I really know nothing about emacs though
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22:45<rryoumaa>i'd think it would be impossible to fg a script that already exits
22:45<rryoumaa>(or rather, should exit)
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22:47<rryoumaa>this is the equivalent of running the script from the command line and it not exiting. which should not be possible afaik?
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22:49<sney>rryoumaa: what happens if you call it from dash, rather than bash?
22:50<rryoumaa>sney: it exits, which is correct
22:50<sney>no idea then
22:50<sney>you said it only occurs on debian? did you try it from some other linux distro?
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22:51<themill>rryoumaa: do you need to disown the child? (is emacs waiting on the children?)
22:52<rryoumaa>themill: i was wondering about that, but can emacs really wait on a grandchild?
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22:52<rryoumaa>sney: no, a non-linux unix. but somebody says he cannot repro on slackware. i haven't gotten anybody to try it on debian yet. (for emacs users, to repro, emacs -q, m-x dired RET, go to file, ! ebug RET)
22:53<rryoumaa>themill: in any case, disown in the script still hangs emacs
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22:54<rryoumaa>i don't even know if it's possible in principle for emacs to do anything to make it wait. is it?
22:55<rryoumaa>i mean, obviously it did so, but i wonder if it's a bash bug or kernel bug or something
22:55<themill>Do you know whether emacs is calling it as "sh -c foo" or "sh foo"? (is the script marked as executable?)
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22:56<rryoumaa>the script is marked executable, let me check the elisp
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22:57<themill>would be worth looking at the process tree when it's hung to see what is still running
22:58<rryoumaa>themill: i think it calls with -c
23:00<themill>is it all the stdout that is confusing emacs here I wonder. vim wants me to press enter to go back to the buffer even after the script has exited
23:02<rryoumaa>themill: good idea about pstree. the tree looks like: vlc processes under init. the script is nowhere to be seen.
23:02<rryoumaa>i will redirect stderr and stdout to see if it changes anything
23:02<themill>vlc spews colours to stdout -- I can imagine those control codes being unwelcome
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23:03<rryoumaa>themill: hmm, you got it
23:03<themill>!win me
23:03<dpkg>Congratulations, themill! You have won second prize in a beauty contest!
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23:16-!-adi is "Adrian Friedli" on #debian #debian-ipv6 #debian-next #debian-offtopic #debian-kde #bash-completion # #debian-systemd
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---Logclosed Mon Feb 17 00:00:56 2014