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#debian IRC Logs for 2014-05-27

---Logopened Tue May 27 00:00:37 2014
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01:19<mask>is AppArmor recommended/necessary for debian?
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01:42<jos>Hi, when I install Ubuntu startx works fine. The Intel Corporation haswell-ult integrated graphics controller (rev 09) chipset is using i915 which I can see using lspci -VVVnn
01:42<jos>however when I installed debian this is no the case
01:42<jos>and startx returns no screens detected
01:43<jos>how can I configure it to use the i915 driver in debian wheezy
01:44<ncl>Xorg -configure, as root, then try
01:44<ncl>There should be `Load "intel"' in the Module section of the config
01:45<jos>Is that the same as running X -cofigure? Because i've tried that and it doesn't work
01:45<jos>Oh can I type load intel afterwards?
01:45<somiaj>jos: you shouldn't need to configure xorg to detect an intel card, could it be you just need a newer kernel than 3.2 in wheezy for your paticular card?
01:46<jos>possibly? I'm a complete noob with Linux so how would this be possible?
01:46<jos>To upgrade kernel?
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01:47<musca>!bdo kernel
01:47<dpkg>Newer kernels for Debian stable releases are available from the "wheezy-backports" repository. Ask me about <wheezy-backports> to modify your sources.list, then run «aptitude update». To install the current backported kernel: «aptitude -t wheezy-backports install linux-image-`uname -r|sed 's,[^-]*-[^-]*-,,'`». To list available backported kernel image packages: «aptitude search '?narrow(~nlinux-image,?origin(Debian Backports))'».
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01:48<somiaj>jos: yes follow what dpkg did and get a newer kernel from wheezy-backports
01:48<jos>Ok, thankyou. I'll have to go reinstall debian and try that. Will take me a bit though
01:49<musca>jos: feel free to ask for more details
01:49<jos>Thankyou, It will probably take about half an hour to install
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01:50<jos>Its just weird the GUI can work while installing from USB but once its installed "no screens detected"
01:51<jm_>jos needs optimus config
01:51<jm_>he has been told about it yesterday
01:51<somiaj>jos: the gui installer really isn't running xorg.
01:52<somiaj>jos: and sounds like you need to listen to jm_, guess you have more than a intel card there, but if it optimus a newer kernel is a good first step
01:52<jos>Ah that would explain it. And jm_ I spent ages last night trying to get optimus working and it just won't
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01:53<jm_>!optimus
01:53<dpkg>The Bumblebee project aims to provide support for the Nvidia Optimus GPU switching technology on Linux systems. GeForce 400M (4xxM) and later mobile GPU series are Optimus-enabled; if «lspci -nn | grep '\''[030[02]\]'» returns two lines, the laptop likely uses Optimus. Packaged for Debian in <testing> and <wheezy-backports>. http://wiki.debian.org/Bumblebee http://bumblebee-project.org/ #bumblebee on irc.freenode.net.
01:53<jm_>so where do you get stuck?
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01:54<jos>I've enabled wheezy-backports in sources.list and installed bumblebe-nvidia and one other package?
01:54<jos>How do I configure it?
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01:54<jos>other package was primus
01:56<jm_>you need to follow the steps from the wiki
01:56<jos>the debian.org one?
01:56<jm_>yes http://wiki.debian.org/Bumblebee
01:57<jm_>also read this important note: Note wheezy-backports does not contain the newer xserver-xorg-video-intel package that is needed by newer intel cards. If you find yourself stuck with the fbdev or vesa driver then you'll need to upgrade to jessie or sid.
01:57<jm_>I'm pretty sure haswell qualifies for this
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01:58<jos>Debian 7.5 Is wheezy isn't it?
01:59<jos>Oh wait I understand the version system now
01:59<planetmaker>yes, 7.5 is wheezy
01:59<planetmaker>jessie is testing and sid is unstable
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02:01<jos>Yea I just figured that out and feel like a complete idiot now. Will reinstall Wheezy, upgrade to sid then upgrade kernel
02:01<jos>Then will try install bumblebee and get that working
02:01<jm_>maybe try testing instead of sid
02:01<jm_>and you don't need to reinstall you can simply upgrade it
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02:03<jos>Ok, do you think Sid or Jessie will work better?
02:03<planetmaker>jos, try jessie first. sid is called 'unstable' for a reason. Only use it, if you know what you do and if you know how to resolve conflicts, deal with broken dependencies etc
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02:04<jos>ok thankyou
02:04<musca>jos: "bumblebe-nvidia" is for the nvidia-driver while "bumblebee" works with the free nouveau driver
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02:05<jos>Ah, that would explain issues I had last night
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02:06<musca>It is mentioned in th wiki ...
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02:07<musca>so for bumblebee-nvidia you want the nvidia-driver from wheezy-backports non-free
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02:29<knives47z>hi, does anyone know how to examine the contents of a .z01 file? xarchiver doesn't seem to recognize it, and neither does ark. I'd like to see what's in the file before downloading the whole series of .z files and attempting to join them
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02:33<themill>what does "file foo.z01" call it?
02:34<knives47z>it says "Zip multi-volume archive data, at least PKZIP v2.50 to extract"
02:34<themill>(compress used to make .Z files... no idea what a .z file is)
02:34<themill>ah
02:35<themill>I have a vague memory that the index of all files is in the last file of a split pkzip archive
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02:37<knives47z>hmm.. so you're suggesting that I indeed need to download the whole series before getting an idea of what's in it?
02:38<themill>according to the manpage, unzip and zipinfo can't deal with multipart archives anyway (you have to concatenate them and then fix them and then work with them)
02:39<themill>You could see what zipinfo has to say about it. And if it doesn't like that, try the last in the series with zipinfo. I don't hold out much hope though
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02:57<knives47z>well, it said what you said.. all the info is on the last disk of the archive. oh well. thanks.
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04:10<Fenhl>Hello. I'm currently working on a new shell language. It's all very experimental still, but I'd like for it to eventually be able to work as a login shell. Is there anywhere I can learn about what functionality is expected from a login shell?
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04:29<Stummi>Fenhl, read about the POSIX sh, a shell should at least be compatible to this
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04:30<Stummi>Fenhl: http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/utilities/V3_chap02.html#tag_18
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04:44<Fenhl>Stummi: well, the language is deliberately different
04:44<Stummi>okay
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04:46<Fenhl>my understanding was that a login shell is one that displays a login prompt, but that seems to be wrong
04:47<Stummi>yes
04:47<Stummi>the login prompt is displayed by the "login" command
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04:47<Stummi>login validates your input and invokes the users loginshell then
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04:50<Fenhl>ah, but most guis use their own login dialog, how is that accomplished?
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04:51<Stummi>in this case, its done by the DM
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04:52<Stummi>for example GDM. It validates your login and starts your gnome session then. if you open a terminal within gnome, the terminal will invoke your loginshell
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05:21<jos>You still there jm_?
05:22<jm_>jos: yes
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05:24<jos>I've installed debian and upgraded to testing which for the GUI working (or atleast the login screen). Startx now works but closes immediately saying xinit lost connection to xserver. Also when I login using lightdm or gdm the gui works till I pretty enter at which point screen flashes black and I am returned to login screen
05:24<jos>*got the GUI working
05:25<SynrG>so your session log should contain clues as to why it died
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05:28<jos>There doesn't appear to be any (EE) errors in /var/log/Xorg.0.log. I think the xserver is working properly but xinit can't connect?
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05:28<jos>Oh at the end of Xorg.1.log it has a line (EE)Server terminated successfully (0)
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05:29<jm_>jos: you need to check session log, not X log
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05:33<jos>the ~/xsession-errors?
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05:34<SynrG>~/.xsession-errors, maybe. depends on what is handling the session.
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05:35<SynrG>check the timestamp to make sure it actually belongs to the session you're testing
05:35<jos>Hmm ok it looks like an openssl version mismatch error? will try removing and reinstalling openssl
05:35<SynrG>just beware that session logs can be full of all kinds of irrelevant junk from apps that are a bit too chatty spewing warnings
05:36<SynrG>so it can be difficult to see the messages that are really relevant
05:36<jos>Ok, Openssl is the only error in there so will see what happens after that is reinstaleld
05:36<jos>*reinstalled
05:36<SynrG>what's the history of this system? fresh install? old install recently upgraded? something else?
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05:37<jm_>fresh
05:37<jos>Fresh install, have tried getting debian to work on this laptop for a while
05:37<SynrG>ah. i just read a bit of the backlog.
05:38<SynrG>so, fresh wheezy install, upgraded to jessie? support really should be in #debian-next
05:38<jos>Yea I've just upgraded to jessie
05:38<jos>Do you want me to move channels?
05:40<SynrG>most of us are there (minus jm_, though ... but i'm not sure why you singled him out to address :)
05:40<jos>Oh just becaused he has been helping me since last night and was last person I talked to about the issue
05:40<jos>Not really used to IRC etiquette
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05:43<SynrG>it's preferable to handle testing/unstable support on #debian-next, and preferable to just address the channel (summing up the problem for us if it has been a long time since it was last dealt with)
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05:44<SynrG>neither one a major faux pas. but does help us more effectively handle your problem
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05:47<jos>Ok thanks :), would the fact xserver keeps restarting at login be anything todo with OpenSSL version mismatch built against 1000105f, you have 10001080 in the xsession-errors file have anything todo with it?
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05:56<jos>Ok this is weird. Running exec ck-launch-session startxfce4 starts the desktop with the GUI working fine?
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05:57<jos>why does the login just return me to the login screen?
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05:58<jm_>you need to check the session log to find out more
05:59<jos>if no info is in ~/xsession-errors where else can I check?
05:59<jm_>what's your DM?
05:59<jos>lightdm
05:59<SynrG>maybe doesn't actually run the WM? or even the session? see x-window-manager and x-session-manager alternatives
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05:59<jos>also tried gdm3 same thing
06:00<SynrG>so maybe the default session points off into space
06:00<Fenhl>Stummi: what does DM stand for?
06:00<jos>Desktop manager
06:00<Fenhl>thanks
06:00<jm_>have you checked /var/log/lightdm?
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06:00<jos>*display manager sorry
06:00<SynrG>jos: incorrect. dm == "display manager"
06:01<Fenhl>ah
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06:02<jm_>for gdm3 it's somewhere in ~, ~/.cache/gdm I think
06:03<jonadab>The dm is the thing that manages graphical login. You actually can use a GUI without one, but in that case you have to log in first then use a command to start the GUI.
06:03<jm_>and at least gdm should have an option which session to start
06:03<SynrG>if you missed that, you need to select your username first
06:04<SynrG>because most modern *dm's remember your preference
06:04<jonadab>I think all the major DMs have an option at login to choose which session. They usually default to "same one as last time".
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06:05<jos>Perhaps when I login using lightdm it isn't actually starting xfce properly? I can't see any errors in lightdm logs
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06:06<jm_>so try configuring alternatives to start with and then look at lightdm screen if there are options to choose from
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06:07<jos>Ok i'll try install LXDE and see if that works
06:07<SynrG>update-alternatives --display x-session-manager
06:08<SynrG>update-alternatives --display x-window-manager
06:08<SynrG>jos: um? just try some of the things we suggested before installing anything else
06:09<SynrG>otherwise, even if the last thing you tried works, we gain no understanding about what was wrong in the first place. and a learning opportunity is squandered.
06:09<jos>ok x-session-manager points to /usr/bin/xcfe4-session & x-window-manager points to /usr/bin/xfwm4
06:09<SynrG>so in lightdm, select your username
06:09<jos>Mhm
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06:10<SynrG>then see what session types are available
06:10<SynrG>which one seems to be selected right now?
06:10<jos>Default Xsession and xfce session
06:10<jos>default Xsession is the default one though
06:10<SynrG>so select xfce session
06:10<jos>Yup then login: loops back to lightDM login
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06:11<SynrG>and the log says?
06:11<jos>lightdm.log?
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06:12<SynrG>xfce's session log. i don't know where it puts it ...
06:12<jos>Ill google it
06:14<SynrG>that may produce a lot of random and non-applicable results :/ (different distro, different xfce version, etc.)
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06:15<SynrG>xfce4-session man page:
06:15<SynrG> xfce4-session reads its configuration from Xfconf. xfce4-session stores its session data into $XDG_CACHE_HOME/sessions/.
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06:16<SynrG>and:
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06:16<SynrG>XDG_CACHE_HOME Specifies the root for all user-specific cache data. If this environment variable is unset, it defaults to ~/.cache/
06:16<SynrG>so, ~/.cache/sessions/xfce4-session-*
06:17<SynrG>(i verified on a sid system here with xfce4 on a user's account i know had previously logged in using xfce4)
06:17<SynrG>jos: ^^
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06:18<jos>Ok yea I have a ~/.cache/sessions folder but it is empty? Weird
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06:18<jos>ls -a returns nothing either
06:18<jos>which means lightdm is not starting xfce?
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06:22<SynrG>probably
06:23<SynrG>or lightdm isn't using xfce4-session
06:24<SynrG>but if it's not obeying the alternatives system there (i.e. just using x-session-manager) then i don't know how it's determining what to start
06:24<SynrG>currently on my sid system i'm using gdm, so the session logs actually go elsewhere
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06:26<SynrG>yeah, for me the session log is in ~/.cache/gdm/session.log
06:26<SynrG>even when i select xfce4 as my session
06:27<jos>is there anyway of manually setting it to /usr/bin/xfce4-session? or whereever it needs to go? Should i installed GDM and see what happens?
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06:27<SynrG>lightdm.conf says:
06:27<SynrG>#log-directory=/var/log/lightdm
06:28<SynrG>so i guess that's the default (hence commented out)
06:28<SynrG>no. we continue trying to understand the problem with the components we have before switching them up :)
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06:28<SynrG>it just means we need to be patient and methodical and read the doc (man pages, not google)
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06:33<SynrG>jos: examining this system, it is lightdm itself that changes where the session logs go, i.e. it doesn't use what would otherwise be xfce4-session's default
06:33<SynrG>i know it's running xfce4-session by looking at the output of ps
06:34<SynrG>also, the log contains evidence that it is (and is timestamped correctly, so i know it's for this session)
06:35<jos>Hmm xfce-sessin is not there when I run ps after logging in with lightDM. None of the logs in /var/log/lightdm seem relevant
06:35<jos>to xfce
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06:37<jm_>do any of the files there change at all?
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06:42<jos>lightdm.log says user jos authorized, greeter requests session xfce running command startxfce4
06:42<jos>so it is trying to start xfce4
06:42<jos>a couple of lines down however it says stopping display server, no sessions require it
06:43<jm_>so as if the command exits, maybe try creating a dummy startxfce4 script to log stuff or run the real one via strace
06:46<jos>trying to stop xserver so i can run strace startxfce4
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06:46<SynrG>big picture: how did it get in this state? an easy install to jessie is:
06:47<SynrG>install wheezy base (no desktop selected)
06:47<SynrG>upgrade to jessie (base only)
06:47<SynrG>install what the installer would've installed for the desired desktop, i.e. task-xfce-desktop
06:47<SynrG>how close to that process were you?
06:48<jm_>as an alternative you could try creating ~/.xsession file
06:48<SynrG>the more things you try without understanding, the stranger your configuration could get ...
06:48<jm_>or maybe the problem is you already have one
06:48<jos>um installed wheezy with xfce, then modified sources.list for jessie, apt-get update, apt-get upgrade, reboot
06:48<jm_>but we don't know if it worked in wheezy I gues
06:48<jos>Time to reinstall?
06:49<jm_>wait, just upgrade, not dist-upgrade?
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06:49<jos>dist-upgrade?
06:49-!-bdog7 [~bdog7@77.41.96.58.static.exetel.com.au] has joined #debian
06:49<jm_>!wheezy->jessie
06:49-!-Human_G33k [~Icedove@portail-wifi-117.univ-poitiers.fr] has joined #debian
06:49<jm_>bleh
06:49<jm_>!tell jos -about wheezy->jessie
06:49-!-jipege [~jipege@30.245.80.79.rev.sfr.net] has joined #debian
06:49<jm_>you got a message from bot
06:50<jos>Yup, just checked :)
06:51-!-Volley [~worf@hexen.cgv.tu-graz.ac.at] has joined #debian
06:51<jm_>so finish your upgrade before we waste more time on this
06:51<jos>ok
06:51<jos>sorry for being and idiot & thanks for your help
06:52<jm_>thank SynrG, I didn't think of checking how you upgraded
06:54<SynrG>jos: so, no need to reinstall, but you do need to finish the upgrade :)
06:54<SynrG>yay
06:54<SynrG>hoping for reports of success soon :)
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06:55<SynrG>either way *should* work, btw. install desktop first, then upgrade, or install base first and then install desktop after upgrade ...
06:55<SynrG>it's just that the latter is shorter.
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06:56<SynrG>also, on the theory that upgrades are prone to more possible gotchas than fresh installs, installing the desktop afterwards seems "cleaner" if your goal was just to install jessie + desktop in the first place.
06:57<cerry>morning ^^/ I've a quick question about GRUB and UEFI ~ I'm in a rescue shell and try to insmod linux but it's prefixing the path with i386-pc though I need x86_64-efi - can't find info bout this in the web ;_;
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06:57<jos>Yea that makes much more sense. I didn't even relize that was neccessary for full upgrade ;)
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06:58<SynrG>jos: and now i invite you to #debian-next, as there is more important testing-specific info to share with you there.
06:58<SynrG>(plus other people with stable help requests are waking up)
06:59<jos>Ok
06:59<SynrG>cerry: sorry, no idea about grub and uefi, but if you hang on, maybe someone who does will take notice
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07:00<SynrG>cerry: wheezy?
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07:00<jos>cerry: Don't you have to create a UEFI-boot paritition and instead of installing grub to /dev/sda install it to the efi-boot partition e.g. /dev/sda1?
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07:01<cerry> months ago
07:01<cerry>@SynrG I'm patient. but sorry not sure bout the version (she's shaking her head, seens like she tried to upgrade about 2months ago
07:02<SynrG>cerry: so, debian stable probably.
07:02<SynrG>cerry: so this is a broken upgrade, not a broken fresh install?
07:02<cerry>ah crap me- actually ubuntu m( sorry probably totally wrong channeö - jeez i need coffee <-<
07:02<SynrG>!ubuntuirc cerry
07:02<dpkg>cerry: This is not the Ubuntu help channel. Please do /server chat.freenode.net and then /join #ubuntu. If you are using XChat, you can right-click the following link and choose connect. irc://chat.freenode.net/ubuntu
07:02<SynrG>yup :)
07:02<cerry>ah crap me- actually ubuntu m( sorry probably totally wrong channeö - jeez i need coffee <-<
07:02<SynrG>and wrong network, too.
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07:03<cerry>^^" ok first i get coffee then i try ubuntu network - my bad :D
07:03<SynrG>good luck
07:03<cerry>thanks, have a nice day ^^/
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07:11<Hazed>Just connected a new VGA monitor to my debian box and have no login screen visible. I can login but then receive a black/desktop with no background and no menus. How can I completely reset gnome/X monitor settings to a sane default? Using Fglrx if that helps. TIA
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07:12<SynrG>probably used nvidia-settings to generate an xorg.conf?
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07:12<SynrG>er, not nvidia, umm, ati-config
07:12<Hazed>I use an ATI card
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07:12<SynrG>yes. brain fart
07:12<Hazed>dpkg-reconfigure gives nothing
07:12<SynrG>it won't re-run ati-config
07:12<Hazed>npo ;-)
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07:12<SynrG>did you manually run ati-config when you first set it up?
07:13<Hazed>yep, aticonfig --niitial
07:13<SynrG>did you redo that for the new monitor?
07:13<Hazed>I get a screen, I just can't do anything with it
07:13<Hazed>no
07:13<Hazed>wait, yes, when it didn't work
07:14<Hazed>for some reason gnome puts the new monitor as an extended desktop or something
07:14<Hazed>I removed the file .config/monitors.xml(?)
07:14<SynrG>i see. so this is a second monitor, not a replacement for the original?
07:14<Hazed>no, a replacement, original died on me
07:14<Hazed>connected via VGA just like the old one
07:14<SynrG>ah.
07:15<SynrG>and what about /var/log/Xorg.0.log ... anything interesting in there?
07:15<Hazed>nope, no errors in anycase. I can login fine and get a scereen, only it's unusable
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07:16<Hazed>I can't run anything either. Alt F2 gives me no visible dialog
07:17<Hazed>if I could call up gnome-monitor-settings or whatever it's called then I could probably fix it but it's a catch 22 situation it seems
07:17<Hazed>I was hoping there would be one file with monitor configs or definitions and hosing it would cure this problem but gnome seems to cling to old monitors better than gum to a shoe
07:19<donofrio>how do I get an xorg file created?
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07:26<Hazed>donofrio maybe this will help? https://wiki.debian.org/Xorg
07:28<donofrio>I meant to say i loaded ati support for my powerpc install but still using software rendering
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07:28<Hazed>ah sorry, don't know powerpc archicteure
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07:28<donofrio>its the same do you run ati hw on your platform?
07:29<Hazed>yes, I use fglrx drivers
07:29<Hazed>fglrx-driver is enough to install, it pulls in all dependencies and builds kernel module for you
07:30<donofrio>maybe that would work....what is command
07:30<Hazed>apt-get install fglrx-driver
07:31<donofrio>no matching packages
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07:32<Hazed>ah, my bad. driver is only for i386/amd64 as far as I can see
07:33<donofrio>yah figured
07:34<Hazed>did you try open source driver xserver-xorg-video-radeon?
07:34<Hazed>this is available for more than i386/amd64
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07:35<Hazed>look at https://packages.debian.org/sid/xserver-xorg-video-radeon to see if your card is supported
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07:35<donofrio>I'm not sid I'm wheezy
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07:35<donofrio>is sid newer?
07:35<Hazed>https://packages.debian.org/wheezy/xserver-xorg-video-radeon :)
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07:37<planetmaker>donofrio, yes. But your question implies you should not try it. It's also a development version which requires sound knowledge of the system and how to fix issues
07:38<planetmaker>unless you enjoy doing exactly that, fixing your system, you should not use sid
07:39<donofrio>radeon package already loaded
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07:41<donofrio>so it says that I should add settings to xorg.conf but its not created by default or something like that
07:42<Hazed>did you try running Xorg -configure with no X running?
07:42<donofrio>not yet i'll try
07:43<Hazed>it's on the wiki page I linked you
07:43<donofrio>I have graphics just not hardware graphics
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07:43<donofrio>and the a100 driver did load from the kernel
07:44<Hazed>I know the radeon driver does not all the functionality of the closed source fglrx driver but what the differences are I couldn't say
07:44<donofrio>killall -9 xorg
07:44<donofrio>opps wrong window
07:45<petn-randall>donofrio: Don't use -9 unless you know what you're doing ... :)
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07:46<donofrio>proper xorg shutdown is??
07:46<Hazed>on the wiki page I linked you :)
07:46<donofrio>k
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07:47<Hazed>"/etc/init.d/gdm stop && /etc/init.d/gdm3 stop && /etc/init.d/kdm stop && /etc/init.d/xdm stop"
07:47<donofrio>k thanks
07:47<Hazed>without the quotes btw
07:47<donofrio>k thanksi have is gdm3
07:48<donofrio>no gdm
07:48<donofrio>in etc
07:48<OdyX>Hazed: replace && with ; otherwise the first failed call (due to missing script) will stop the whole line
07:48<Hazed>yeah, it's usually one or the other
07:48<Hazed>ok Ody, was just copying and pasting the wiki page at debian, good to know :)
07:49<Hazed>sorry, OdyX
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07:53<Hazed>and donofrio, unless it's very different on powerpc, the kernel module for ati/radeon cards is called radeon, not a199
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07:53<Hazed>er a100
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07:53<donofrio>http://paste.debian.net/101968
07:53<donofrio>is my config I believe
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07:54<Hazed>firmware mismatch?
07:55<Hazed>what ati card do you have?
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07:55<Hazed>lspci will tell you
07:55<Hazed>ah, assuming you have a pcibus on a mac....
07:55<donofrio>I rebooted and it cleared up the r200 not found....
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07:56<donofrio>it's an r200
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07:56<Hazed>according to the package page, r200 IS supported
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07:57<Hazed>the error in your pastebin says it can't find the firmware file. Can you "see" the file in question on your drive?
07:58<donofrio>its visable now - needed restart last night
07:58<Hazed>ah, good to hear it's working! :)
07:58<donofrio>no its not working persay
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07:58<donofrio>yes the kernel mod loaded firmware
07:58<Hazed>how old is the card?
07:58<donofrio>but xorg is still only using software rendering and how hardware
07:59<Hazed>it sounds like amd/ati's standard driver technique
07:59<donofrio>age irrilivent this is debian
07:59<Hazed>hehe, I like the sentiment
07:59<donofrio>standard in that you know of a workaround
07:59<Hazed>or a re boot ;-)
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07:59<willemb_>So, this squeeze-lts thing
08:00<willemb_>looks like it wont have php then?
08:01<willemb_>is that right?
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08:01<donofrio>so close to having everything just need hwgfx, sound fixed, flash supported (I see gnash running but dunno if I see output) even got xbmc loaded sooo close to done
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08:05<Hazed>Gnash? People really use that?
08:05<Hazed>I don't mean to sound condescending but...well....
08:06<donofrio>well when you have choice of nothing and that well then that works
08:06<Hazed>no apple adobe player?
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08:06<Hazed>no wait, apple does everything itself, just like microsoft....
08:06<donofrio>flash bah adobe can go burn
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08:06<donofrio>I mean we're lucky to have anything flash on linux these days
08:07-!-mode/#debian [+l 693] by debhelper
08:07<Hazed>the power of intel....mwahaha...
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08:07<Hazed>html5 is coming...slowly....
08:08<donofrio>no the appithy of the world for not caring about hardware that "just works" no need to hate on multiarch support
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08:08<Hazed>I do not hate multiarch support, I embrace it :)
08:08<sreesh>;.
08:08<donofrio>good to hear
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08:09<Hazed>it took apple and uh...oracle to get working amd64 browser plugins working! No really
08:09<donofrio>seems like the world has been moving away from multiarch I say "turn into the wave" it shakes out code bugs or missing packages alltogether
08:09<Hazed>flash and java
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08:09<donofrio>I'm running debian fwiw not apple just running on this eligent older hardware
08:10<Hazed>I'm still waiting for my quantum computer and my flying car....Steven Speilberg promised me this
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08:10<Hazed>yeah, I hear ya, my hardware is not exactly recent, but it works, well, not right now but that's just a glkitch I will survive...or re-install LOL
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08:15<donofrio>k gotta run to work chat you all later....
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08:22<Hazed>laterz
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08:23<willemb_>so, php5 in squeeze-lts?
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08:24<newbage>anyone here familiar with installing Debian 7.5 on a MacBook Pro 8.2?
08:25<SynrG>newbage: maybe you can summarize what you've tried so far and what problem you currently face.
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08:25<SynrG>newbage: then if someone wakes up later and sees your question, they have all the facts.
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08:32<newbage>I'm installing Debian 7.5 on a MacBook Pro. I've updated apt source to nonfree and installed. I've also installed b43 firmware for my wireless card and am stuck on getting Debian to boot. I have GRUB and rEFInd installed and would like to dual boot with Mac OS X.
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08:33<SynrG>newbage: so you've had it successfully boot before?
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08:35<newbage>synrg: depends what you mean by 'successfully'… it boots but hangs at a certain point. This is what the screen looks like: http://i.imgur.com/j10tKKQ.jpg
08:35<newbage>http://i.imgur.com/5nkoNAP.jpg
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08:35<SynrG>when you say you updated apt source and installed stuff, how did you do it? from a rescue system?
08:35<newbage>rescue, yes
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08:37<SynrG>the USB disconnect right before failure is suspicious
08:37<SynrG>are you booting from a USB drive?
08:37<newbage>for those boots, no
08:38<SynrG>can you remove all non-essential USB devices, or are all of the ones plugged in essential for a boot?
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08:38<SynrG>(or internal so cannot be removed)
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08:38<jm_>how about storage stuff? does it detect disks ok?
08:38<newbage>if they're listed there, they're internal
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08:39<newbage>I thought about blacklisting them but have never done that before
08:39<SynrG>bcm5974 shows as a USB device ...
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08:39<SynrG>see the message at 7.215926
08:39<newbage>jm_: does what detect disks? debian? I haven't been able to fully boot debian yet
08:40<newbage>I think that's my wireless card
08:40<SynrG>not sure if it is. checking ...
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08:41<SynrG>nope. multitouch mouse
08:41<jm_>newbage: yes, the kernel obviously
08:41<newbage>the only reason I say that is the broadcom ~ bcm equivalency
08:41<SynrG>trackpad, even
08:41<SynrG>well, if you google the device identifier. that's what it says it is. a trackpad.
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08:42<newbage>jm_: everything debian is giving me is there in the image… I haven't been able to get past that… yet…
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08:42<SynrG>it may be that the kernel has issues with that device.
08:42<jm_>newbage: it's not, there's lots of stuff before that, does shift-pageup work at that point to scroll back?
08:43<SynrG>jm_: good idea
08:43<newbage>jm_: honestly, I didn't know I could do that…
08:43<jm_>newbage: see if it works and if it prints anything about disks/ata etc.
08:43<newbage>jm_: also, I have a compact keyboard with no pageup key
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08:44<jm_>newbage: bummer, no idea how to do the same thing on those
08:45<newbage>additionally, this is booting using rEFInd, I would prefer to boot with grub… grub hangs much earlier at "waiting for /dev to populate"
08:45<SynrG>i think stick with refind for now until we get a first successful boot
08:46<jm_>that's not grub failing, that's way past grub
08:46<SynrG>http://superuser.com/questions/132719/how-do-i-type-home-end-pageup-pagedown-on-a-macbook-pro
08:47<SynrG>so i guess Fn+Shift+Up Arrow
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08:47<newbage>awesome, I'll go try that now BRB
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09:00<newbage>so, that didn't work
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09:01<newbage>it said something about conflicting hardware usage re: the radeon card
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09:04<newbage>https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/MacBook#Post-install_configuration
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09:04<newbage>I have to implement these recommendations somehow but, being new, I'm not 100% sure how…
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09:05<jm_>you could try disabling KMS to start with
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09:06<jm_>!kms
09:06<dpkg>Kernel Mode Setting (KMS) has graphical modes initialized by the Linux kernel instead of X. It is hardware dependent, introduced in Linux 2.6.29. Enabled via modprobe as of xserver-xorg-video-intel 2:2.9.1-2 and xserver-xorg-video-radeon 1:6.12.192-2. To disable, edit /etc/modprobe.d/{i915,radeon}-kms.conf or boot with the 'nomodeset' kernel command line parameter. http://wiki.debian.org/KernelModesetting
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09:08<newbage>jm_: nomodeset seems easiest
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09:09<newbage>now to figure out how to do that in rEFInd…
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09:09<SynrG>aha
09:09<SynrG>progress :)
09:09<SynrG>and yes, we had to throw in some boot params in refind too. sadly, i don't remember *how* ...
09:09<SynrG>just that it is possible and the docs say :)
09:09<newbage>good to know we're on the right track...
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09:10<SynrG>it may be that a later kernel (backports) supports your hardware better ... ?
09:10<SynrG>but get to the point where we can fully boot first.
09:10<SynrG>yeah
09:11<newbage>also, this is why I want to boot from GRUB
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09:12<newbage>but booting from GRUB hangs at waiting for /dev to be populated (no idea what that means)
09:12<jm_>and you're sure grub works on macbook?
09:12<newbage>I see the GUI when GRUB boots
09:12<newbage>and GRUB itself works fine
09:13<newbage>…it's what happens when GRUB initiates a boot on Debian or Mac OS X that's the problem
09:13<jm_>that's a message from udev init script
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09:14<newbage>you're over my head there jm_
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09:16<jm_>it means kernel started but something's not found - I remember seeing that with grml on old hardware and using options to disable probing helped
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09:17<jm_>maybe not old but crap for sure
09:17<newbage>actually, I just found this thread: http://forums.opensuse.org/showthread.php/488762-MacBook-Pro-8-2-Late-2011-openSUSE-12-3-Install-works-but-wont-boot-post-install
09:17<newbage>that's exactly what is happening when I boot
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09:18<newbage>don't understand it that well though…
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09:20<jm_>so nomodeset doesn't help?
09:21<newbage>I'm trying to figure out how to do that from rEFInd
09:21<newbage>still haven't tried it
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09:28<SynrG>i think it's just a file in a folder you can access from the Mac side of things
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09:30<newbage>so, I simply added 'nomodeset to the end of the string in rEFInd's line editor and booted
09:30<newbage>it hanged in the same place
09:31<newbage>afk for 5-10 minutes
09:31<SynrG>ok. so that's not a solution to *your* problem
09:31<SynrG>maybe to someone else's :)
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09:32<SynrG>and how about noapic and/or acpi=off which are other tricks to try?
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09:32<SynrG>do you have a /boot/efi/EFI/debian or some such?
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09:33<SynrG>i'm looking at http://www.rodsbooks.com/refind/linux.html
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09:36<zathras>hi. Check_mk-server seems to bind default to unix sockets. Yet I cannot find where/how to bind to a tcp-port (nothing in /etc/default or /etc/check_mk)
09:37<zathras>there is also no init.d script
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09:37<zathras>any pointers?
09:37<jm_>what is Check_mk-server?
09:37<zathras>(I am running wheezy)
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09:38<zathras> check-mk-server 1.1.12p7-1
09:38<zathras>a tool to aid monitoring either by itself or by linking it to nagios/icinga etc
09:39<zathras>I want to run check-mk-livestatus
09:39<jm_>maybe check its documentationt hen
09:40<zathras>I am
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09:42<zathras>other subject/question: can I extend a / filing system (ext4) when I already extended the partition (LVM)? I mean: live.... ?
09:42<zathras>(root)
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09:48<Danfun64>Hello. I need help with upgrading packages.
09:48<Danfun64>http://pastebin.com/sNRL2u1X
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09:49<Danfun64>I don't want to remove anything unless it's truly outdated
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09:49<jm_>why do you consider this problematic?
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09:50<jm_>and what kind of upgrade is this?
09:50<Danfun64>dist-upgrade
09:50<jm_>from/to?
09:50<Danfun64>at this point I can't upgrade [i]anything[/i] without getting rid of something
09:50<Danfun64>im using debian testing
09:50<jm_>then try #debian-next
09:50<Danfun64>is dist-upgrade a bad habit?
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09:52<Danfun64>i'll try #debian-next. Thanks anyway
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10:04<sreesh>mmmm
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10:30<Hazed>the day flows forth.....
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10:32<Hazed>anyone good at haiku's?
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10:34<SynrGy>offtopic?
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10:35<Hazed>apologies
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10:36<wkf>hello folks, I'm running my own apt repo with reprepro, and it works pretty well, except rarely we get an "the following signatures were invalid nodata 1 nodata 2" error when using apt on a client. The repo is running an AWS us-east, and a remote guy working in Poland sees the issue much more than anyone else. Thanks for any help.
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10:37<wkf>to clarify, the error is transient, running apt-get update again usually works just fine
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10:43<petn-randall>wkf: The exact error message would help to debug this issue.
10:44<wkf>sure petn-randall: E: GPG error: http://apt.withmojo.com local Release: The following signatures were invalid: NODATA 1 NODATA 2
10:45<petn-randall>wkf: Literally "NODATA"?
10:45<wkf>yah
10:45<wkf>that's the literal error message, I didn't change anything
10:46<themill>NODATA means there's no signature to be checked -- either the file isn't uploaded to the mirror properly or (more likely) something ate it between server and client
10:46<jm_>apt probably calls gpg binary right? so it might make sense to check if debugging shows how it calls it etc.
10:49<wkf>themill: it's probably on the mirror properly, since it works most of the time, so what could eat it? it's being served by nginx, which is itself behind an haproxy instance, so it could be a problem with either of those.
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10:49<themill>or if it's only one specific client, then a proxy at their end would be a likely suspect
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10:51<wkf>it happens occasionally for everyone, but for one client more often, and we've already ruled out a local proxy
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10:57<sreesh>sjdash
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10:57<sreesh>sadsd
10:57<petn-randall>wkf: If you have haproxy in the front, sounds like one of the backends are out of date or broken.
10:58<petn-randall>sreesh: Yes, your keyboard works.
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10:59<sreesh>sorry, i am working on packet capturing
10:59<sreesh>I am trying to capture IRC packet
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10:59<sreesh>IRC message
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11:01<wkf>petn-randall: I'm able to reproduce even when I limit it to one backend
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11:06<petn-randall>wkf: With "reproduce" you mean that it still only happens sporadically?
11:06<sreesh>i m
11:07<petn-randall>wkf: Check the webserver logs for suspicious messages. If there's nothing, I'd starting capturing network packages on each side and comparing them.
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11:08<petn-randall>sreesh: This is a Debian support channel. If you want to test your IRC client, join an empty channel please.
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11:09<sreesh>sorry
11:09<sreesh>sorry sorry
11:09<SamB>sreesh: wiresharking?
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11:11-!-chitchat is "(unknown)" on (unknown)
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11:13<sreesh>no i have made a java program to capture packets
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11:14<sreesh>please help me to create a new channel
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11:16<LtL>sreesh: type /part #debian -then- /join #sreesh
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11:30<wkf>that's correct petn-randall... I'll take a closer look at the logs... nothing jumped out, but I'll get some captures next, thanks for the suggestions
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11:53<newbage>synrg: you still here?
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12:00<jm_>just ask
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12:08<newbage>jm_: hey again… ok, I've got my 2nd machine running and can stay connected to #debian while trying to play with the boot settings of my main machine
12:08<newbage>jm_: if memory serves, we were trying to implement nomodeset on rEFInd?
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12:09<jm_>newbage: hmm didn't you say that didn't helped?
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12:09<jm_>help*
12:09<newbage>jm_: that's assuming I implemented it properly
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12:10<newbage>let me upload a photo of what I did to double check
12:10<newbage>1 sec
12:10<jm_>newbage: if you could scroll up kernel reports parameters passed to it
12:10<jm_>but that doesn't work for you
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12:15<newbage>jm_: could you clarify your last?
12:15<newbage>jm_: we tried using page up and that didn't work...
12:15<jm_>newbage: shift pageup doesn't work for you so you can't check that
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12:16<newbage>jm_: I see
12:16<jm_>otherwise it looks like this Command line: ....
12:17<jm_>have you considered installing a newer kernel?
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12:22<newbage>jm_: this is the iso I downloaded and ran: http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/amd64/iso-cd/
12:23<jm_>newbage: yeah that's ok
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12:25<jm_>but that gives you older kernel
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12:25<jm_>!bpo kernel
12:25<dpkg>Newer kernels for Debian stable releases are available from the "wheezy-backports" repository. Ask me about <wheezy-backports> to modify your sources.list, then run «aptitude update». To install the current backported kernel: «aptitude -t wheezy-backports install linux-image-`uname -r|sed 's,[^-]*-[^-]*-,,'`». To list available backported kernel image packages: «aptitude search '?narrow(~nlinux-image,?origin(Debian Backports))'».
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12:30<backboxHELP>Hi, can anyone help/explain to me how to add programs (tools) from another distro onto another? In my case Kali (or bugtraq) tools on backbox? Thanks
12:31<newbage>jm_: ok, I can boot into rescue and modify my apt sources file
12:31<Maulkin>backboxHELP: Generally, you can't. In your specific case, you'll need to talk to backbox.
12:31<newbage>jm_: what kernel should I go for?
12:31<backboxHELP>thx
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12:33-!-planetmaker is "Ingo von Borstel" on #debian #freerct @+#openttdcoop #oftc @+#openttdcoop.stable @+#openttd #openttdcoop.devzone @+#openttdcoop.nightly @+#openttdcoop.dev #openttdcoop.bots +#openttd.dev +#openDune
12:34<jm_>newbage: the one from backports as indicated above
12:34<jm_>newbage: ask here if you have an issue with it, I will have to go now
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12:35<backboxHELP>another problem i'm getting is every time i put my laptop on suspend, it won't wake up.. It turns on and the power led turns on, but that's it. The screen is completely black (not even back lit). I was also encountering this problem with Ubuntu and all my drivers were up to date and legit
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12:58<newbage>should I add the line 'deb http://http.debian.net/debian/ wheezy-backports main' in place of something in my sources.list file or on a new line?
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12:59<centrx>newbage, new line, unless you already have another backports line which you should probably delete.
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13:02<newbage>also, my other lines say " main contrib non-free" does that matter with a backports line?
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13:03<centrx>newbage, yes, include those too
13:04<newbage>ok, so to be clear, my backports line is going to say ''deb http://http.debian.net/debian/ wheezy-backports main' contrib non-free'
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13:04<newbage>I don't know why the quotes went weird
13:04<ckosloff>I need to change the IP address on my eth0, because it is not on the network that my default gateway is and cannot connect, I can only use wireless
13:04<newbage>'deb http://http.debian.net/debian/ wheezy-backports main contrib non-free'
13:05<newbage>correct?
13:05<centrx>newbage, Looks good
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13:06<newbage>now, the other lines also include a deb-src line, is this necessary with backports?
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13:06<centrx>newbage, deb-src are for grabbing source packages. They are not necessary for any of them
13:06<newbage>good to know
13:06<centrx>newbage, I would comment them all out to speed up apt-get update unless you get source packages sometimes
13:07<newbage>so, ctrl+o, ctrl+x, and apt-get update now then?
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13:07<newbage>sorry for being tedious, I just don't want to mess this up
13:07<centrx>newbage, I don't know what you mean by those first two commands, but yes run apt-get update
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13:07<centrx>newbage, apt-get update is never going to really break anything important
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13:09<xormor>hello and thanks in advance. why is libgadu3 installed on my stable/wheezy system? I have never used the Gadu-Gadu Instant Messaging protocol nor program.
13:10<xormor>https://packages.debian.org/fi/wheezy/libgadu3
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13:10<xormor>"Setting up libgadu3 (1:1.11.2-1+deb7u2) ..."
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13:13<xormor_>why is libgadu3 installed on my stable/wheezy system? I have never used the Gadu-Gadu Instant Messaging protocol nor program.
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13:14<blast007>xormor_: 'aptitude why libgadu3' may offer an explanation. it was probably required/recommended by something else you have installed.
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13:16<anony>hey guys!
13:16<newbage>I'm not familiar with this formatting 'aptitude -t wheezy-backports install linux-image-`uname -r|sed 's,[^-]*-[^-]*-,,'`'
13:16<anony>wow, is cupsd really buggy nowadays? i have to do init.d restart and strange things to get my printer going over the network
13:17-!-mode/#debian [+l 709] by debhelper
13:17<newbage>how do I install the current backported kernel after updating?
13:18<xormor_>blast007, thank you.
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13:18<xormor_>blast007, it is required by kopete. I think kopete was automatically installed on my system. I used it on other installations, not this one though.
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13:19<blast007>xormor_: might be part of the desktop tasksel group
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13:25<newbage>how do I install the current backported kernel after updating?
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13:33<t30P0d>hi all!
13:33<TinoDidriksen>When setting up an apt repo, I see many places separate them into /debian and /ubuntu repos, but is that recommended and if so why? Seems unnecessary if every package is marked per distro anyway.
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13:36<frecklezy>hello linuxers...a question for yall, is there a very good/advnaced terminal media player, no Goey (gui) just good old terminal work...
13:37<lostatwork>cmus
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13:40<Brigo>frecklezy, mplayer
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13:41<newbage1>how do I scroll in the command line with a compact keyboard?
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13:43<petn-randall>frecklezy: So you want to play audio, or video with ASCII art?
13:43<petn-randall>newbage1: If you don't have page up/down, I guess you don't ...
13:43<newbage1>but...
13:43-!-magu_cic [~cic@e179235031.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
13:44<newbage1>…I need to…
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13:45<newbage1>when I use my arrow keys the command line shows "^[[A"
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13:46<frecklezy>i want a good media player for music/movie but without the GUI just terminal work, like irssi for IRC
13:46<newbage1>up ~ a; down ~ b; right ~ c; left ~ d
13:46<petn-randall>newbage1: And you want to display video on the command line how?
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13:49<petn-randall>frecklezy: And you want to display video on the command line how? (sorry)
13:49<petn-randall>newbage1: Is the keyboard missing any other keys?
13:50-!-rvdv [~richard@0001c8b4.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
13:50<newbage1>no, it's just a normal compact keyboard (i.e. no num pad, print or scroll keys)
13:50<frecklezy>dunno, another box opens up with a standalone video player... ignore the video itself is there one for music
13:51<frecklezy>you asked me that like I asked for the impossible ¬¬
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13:59<roughnecks>frecklezy: apt-cache show moc
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13:59<RageRiot>.net
14:01<petn-randall>newbage1: Maybe you can use the function key to achieve page up/down, home and end. I'm not aware of a way to do that, for X11 you can allegedly use xmodmap to change the keyboard layout, haven't used it yet, though.
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14:02<roughnecks>also xbindkeys
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14:03<newbage1>I'm booted into rescue mode at the moment is there a way to remap keys from here?
14:04<SynrGy>newbage1: just finished my workday. how did it go?
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14:04<SynrGy>(i only skimmed the backlog a bit)
14:06<newbage1>synrgy: I just (an hour or two ago) got my 2nd machine up and have been trying to 1.) install the current backports kernal
14:06<newbage1>and 2.) trying to figure out how to remap the keys so I can page up and down
14:07<newbage1>synrgy: I've updated with backports now I just have to install
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14:13<newbage1>synrgy: I've mostly been working on other things though while I waited to have the 2nd machine available so I haven't gotten much done…ready to roll now though
14:13<babilen>newbage1: You can tab-complete nicknames in here. Try "bab<TAB>" or "sy<TAB>" :)
14:13<frecklezy>hmm cmus or moc ^_^ the choices
14:14<newbage1>babilen: that is awesome
14:14<babilen>(also works for paths on the host machine)
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14:14<newbage1>babilen: learning so much lately...
14:15<babilen>newbage1: Multiple tabs will cycle through completions - Do you require help with the installation of the backport kernel?
14:15<newbage1>babilen: yes!
14:15<babilen>dpkg: bdo kernel
14:15<dpkg>Newer kernels for Debian stable releases are available from the "wheezy-backports" repository. Ask me about <wheezy-backports> to modify your sources.list, then run «aptitude update». To install the current backported kernel: «aptitude -t wheezy-backports install linux-image-`uname -r|sed 's,[^-]*-[^-]*-,,'`». To list available backported kernel image packages: «aptitude search '?narrow(~nlinux-image,?origin(Debian Backports))'».
14:16<newbage1>babilen: also, if you know anything about using a compact keyboard that would be helpful since I haven't been able to page up or down yet
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14:16<babilen>newbage1: You would, essentially, use an /etc/apt/sources.list such as http://paste.debian.net/102084/ for wheezy, run "apt-get update" and then run that aptitude command.
14:16<babilen>newbage1: No, sorry ... not off the top of my head.
14:16<newbage1>babilen: yeah, this line 'aptitude -t wheezy-backports install linux-image-`uname -r|sed 's,[^-]*-[^-]*-,,'`' is what's throwing me at the moment...
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14:16<newbage1>babilen: I already updated
14:17-!-mode/#debian [+l 715] by debhelper
14:17<babilen>newbage1: Well, the "`uname -r|sed 's,[^-]*-[^-]*-,,'`" part just figured out which architecture your kernel is and would result in something like "amd64"
14:17<babilen>newbage1: What does "uname -a" give you now?
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14:18<newbage1>Linux debian 3.0.2-4-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 3.2.57-3 x86_64 GNU/Linux
14:19<babilen>newbage1: You also needed firmware, didn't you? What does "aptitude search '~i~nfirmware'" give you?
14:19-!-bend [~Unnamed@179.182.65.238] has joined #debian
14:19<babilen>(→ http://paste.debian.net )
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14:20<newbage1>babilen: firmware-b43-installer and firmware-linus-nonfree
14:20<trico>is anyone able to rip dvds in wheezy? im trying dvdbackup on one now, its already ripped 14gb and its still not done
14:21<babilen>newbage1: Did you also install intel-microcode already?
14:21<newbage1>babilen: we were playing with nomodeset there for a while but I think jm_ concluded that it wasn't helpful
14:22<newbage1>babilen: hmmm… 'apt-get install firmware-linux-nonfree intel-microcode' yes?
14:22<babilen>newbage1: No, make that "apt-get -t wheezy-backports install firmware-linux-nonfree intel-microcode" please.
14:22<newbage1>babilen: it says that intel-microcode is already the newest version
14:23<newbage1>babilen: ahhh… 1 ec
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14:23<newbage1>babilen: running
14:23<newbage1>babilen: done
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14:25<babilen>newbage1: Perfect. Could have installed the kernel while we were at it, but lets do that now. "apt-get -t wheezy-backports install linux-image-amd64"
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14:26<newbage1>babilen: running
14:27<newbage1>babilen: done
14:27<babilen>Splendid.
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14:27<newbage1>babilen: are we going to try a boot at the point or… ???
14:28<newbage1>babilen: I realize we updated the kernel but I'm not sure what precisely this accomplishes...
14:28<babilen>newbage1: You installed a new kernel, but you have to reboot to actually use it.
14:28<newbage1>babilen: is there anything else you'd like me to execute at the moment?
14:29<babilen>The old kernel will still be installed and can also be selected in grub.
14:29<newbage1>babilen: what difference will there be in labeling?
14:29<babilen>newbage1: Not really - but I am not sure if your bootloader needs some additional incarnations to find/use the kernel. Or do you chainload into grub now? (sorry, forgot)
14:29<babilen>newbage1: The version number (3.2 vs. 3.13)
14:30<babilen>3.14 that is
14:30<newbage1>babilen: I have been using rEFInd since it gets farther along in the boot but I'd prefer to use grub
14:30-!-lift [~lift@2a04:1980:3100:1aac:21b:21ff:feda:4ca7] has joined #debian
14:30<babilen>newbage1: Well, you can boot your computer right now, can't you?
14:30<newbage1>babilen: yep, I'll try that first
14:31<babilen>I mean: Could you boot the old kernel without problems?
14:31-!-bluewater [~nautics-a@000127d1.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
14:32<newbage1>babilen: all debian kernels have frozen now at the line 'fb: conflicting fb hw usage radeondrmfb vs EFI VGA - removing generic driver'
14:32<lift>If I want to run 99.9% of my packages on stable, but want one non-critical unstable package that is not in backports, is apt-pinning a good idea?
14:32<newbage1>babilen: including 3.2
14:33<newbage1>babilen: I believe this is the source of jm_'s suspicion re: nomodeset
14:34<babilen>But the 3.2 kernel booted before?
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14:34<newbage1>babilen: we just installed 3.2 I thought…
14:35<newbage1>babilen: I haven't had a successful debian yet
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14:35<babilen>No, that one should have been installed already. We just installed thre 3.14 kernel from backports (for a reason unbeknownst to me)
14:35<newbage1>babilen: …a successful debian boot yet…
14:35<babilen>wow
14:35<newbage1>babilen: ahhh
14:35<babilen>This is definitely the most pesky installation I have seen in a while (that is after the year 2000)
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14:36<babilen>ahh?
14:36<newbage1>babilen: give me just a minute… I booted 3.2 again (which has always frozen at the above) I'm going to try to boot 3.14 now...
14:36-!-magu_cic [~cic@e179234162.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #debian
14:37<newbage1>babilen: backports was jm_'s last recommendation before leaving
14:37<babilen>Ah, I understand :)
14:37<newbage1>babilen: booting
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14:39<anony>debian!
14:39<anony>get dat shit
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14:39<newbage1>babilen: frozen but elsewhere in the boot this time
14:39<newbage1>babilen: would you like a screenshot?
14:40<babilen>newbage1: *sigh* -- yes please.
14:40<babilen>newbage1: I am truly sorry for this horrible experience.
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14:42<newbage1>babilen: http://i.imgur.com/MVObcWg.jpg
14:42-!-x_x [~x@113.206.137.191] has joined #debian
14:42<babilen>ta
14:42<newbage1>babilen: not your fault… if anything, it's my fault for believe in the myth of mac for so long
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14:43<newbage1>babilen: this is my penance for that
14:43<babilen>And then it just hangs there?
14:43-!-esk [esk@esk.cs.usu.edu] has joined #debian
14:44<newbage1>babilen: yep, it's been hanging now since I booted
14:44<x_x>hello
14:45-!-x_x [~x@113.206.137.191] has quit []
14:45<newbage1>babilen: also, the fact that you're suffering what should be my frustration over this is the best sign that this is the computer community for me
14:45<newbage1>babilen: in other words, thanks for your help
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14:46<newbage1>babilen: mac's are shiny but #debian is some classy tech support
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14:48<donofrio>yah got my sound working
14:48<babilen>newbage1: yeah, unfortunately I am not very familiar with that hardware. How old is that box?
14:48<donofrio>newbage1, what is the model?
14:48<newbage1>babilen: 2.5-3 years, RAM and SSD are newer
14:49<newbage1>donofrio: MacBook Pro 8.2
14:49<donofrio>now just need excellurated video drivers and flash and I'm all set
14:49<newbage1>16 GB Crucial RAM + 960 GB Crucial SSD
14:49<donofrio>I'm on a Powerbook g4 (-:
14:49<babilen>newbage1: I mean I see multiple ways forward now: 1. Try even newer software in the hope that that fixes whatever problem you are running into now (in the hope that the graphic stack of the new Xorg copes better with that hardware)
14:50-!-nyamo [~petra@5402B11A.dsl.pool.telekom.hu] has quit []
14:50<babilen>newbage1: 2. Try installing the proprietary fglrx driver or 3. Investigate thoroughly to find the actual problem.
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14:51<babilen>newbage1: My main problem right now is that I don't really see an actual error in your screenshot that would allow me to investigate further.
14:51<donofrio>is sid newer than wheesy
14:51<newbage1>babilen: I like the order of your thinking
14:51<babilen>donofrio: It is indeed, yeah
14:51<newbage1>babilen: free if possible… if not, as little proprietary as possible
14:52<newbage1>babilen: I'm fine with installing the fglrx driver
14:52<babilen>newbage1: The problem is that you cannot really downgrade from the development release of Debian to the stable release again and I am also not particularly sure if you would be happy tracking that. Which is why I am pondering installing the fglrx driver.
14:53<babilen>judd: v fglrx-driver
14:53<judd>Package: fglrx-driver on i386 -- squeeze/non-free: 1:10-9-3squeeze1; wheezy/non-free: 1:12-6+point-3; wheezy-backports/non-free: 1:13.12-4~bpo70+1; jessie/non-free: 1:14.4-2; sid/non-free: 1:14.4.2-1
14:53<newbage1>babilen: I can repartition and reinstall from my netinst
14:54<newbage1>babilen: I can be quick once I know the steps needed
14:54<newbage1>babilen: whatever you guys want though
14:54<SynrGy>newbage1: incidentally on the macbook air fglrx was much better for us (ubuntu 13.10 and 14.04)
14:54<babilen>newbage1: Hehe .. I would like you to try the fglrx driver from wheezy-backports first. The installation is relatively straightforward.
14:55-!-petra [~petra@5402B11A.dsl.pool.telekom.hu] has joined #debian
14:55<SynrGy>that install i was telling you about before (my daughter's best friend)
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14:55<newbage1>SynrGy: good to know
14:55<newbage1>babilen: lets go back to rescue mode…
14:56<donofrio>will sid have better hw support?
14:56<babilen>newbage1: Please install headers for your kernel (needed to compile the module) with "apt-get -t wheezy-backports install linux-headers-amd64" adn then the fglrx driver with "aptitude -r -t wheezy-backports install fglrx-driver"
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14:57<babilen>donofrio: Hardware support mostly boils down to a newer kernel an you can install the kernel that is currently in sid from backports as detailed in <bdo kernel> -- /msg dpkg bdo kernel
14:57<newbage1>babilen: new development…upon reboot to what I assume is rEFInd… pixel snow
14:57-!-ksg88 [~oftc-webi@pool-72-70-85-241.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #debian
14:57<babilen>donofrio: This does not necessarily hold true for graphic hardware, though
14:57<babilen>newbage1: That is highly irregular
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14:58<newbage1>babilen: would the 3.14 boot have blessed GRUB with different video settings?
14:58<donofrio>all I know is xbmc is unsable with current driver I have installed (still missing xorg.conf file)
14:58<newbage1>I might be booting GRUB not rEFInd
14:58<babilen>newbage1: Shouldn't no ... but then this whole process of "blessing" is completely alien to me.
14:58-!-ksg88 [~oftc-webi@pool-72-70-85-241.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit []
14:58<newbage1>ok, let me boot to recovery and re-bless rEFInd
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14:59<babilen>newbage1: Installing a new kernel should update the grub configuration, but that would have hit you the first time you reboot after that. Booting the kernel shouldn't have changed anything.
14:59<donofrio>anyone know how to kick ati-config in to create the xorg file?
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15:00<anony>donofrio, what are u trying to do man
15:00<babilen>Whatever "blessing rEFInd" means. I seriously should invest a few minutes to learn about this one day.
15:00<retrospectacus>donofrio: just create it by following the debian wiki
15:00<anony>just installing the ati drivers donofrio ?
15:00<donofrio>need hardware rendering not software rendering
15:00<anony>yeah follow the debian wiki
15:00<newbage1>babilen: I think it booted to GRUB with some altered video configuration
15:00-!-silverdeth [~Miek@23-29-10-201.netptc.net] has joined #debian
15:00<babilen>newbage1: Okay
15:00<anony>it works
15:00<babilen>
15:00<donofrio>http://paste.debian.net/101968
15:01<SamB>babilen: "bless" is some kind of term for setting something to be booted from
15:01<donofrio>I now have driver loading but still muching around with xorg.conf (files ten years later)
15:01<newbage1>babilen: booting to rEFInd
15:01<babilen>donofrio: Did you reboot after installing the firmware?
15:01<babilen>newbage1: Which works?
15:02<donofrio>oh yah many times'
15:02-!-MarcoZink [~marcozink@200-52-45-221.dynamic.axtel.net] has joined #debian
15:02<babilen>Are we sure that the firmware works on powerpc?
15:02<donofrio>it's loaded....
15:02<newbage1>babilen: yep… now booting into rescue mode...
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15:02<spippi>hi at all
15:02<anony>donofrio to get flash hardware rendering support in chromium look here http://askubuntu.com/questions/169072/fullscreen-youtube-videos-lagging-a-lot
15:02<anony>3rd post
15:03<donofrio>well its not flash yet
15:03<babilen>newbage1: Okay, no idea what happened there. (I really dislike the unpredictability and non-deterministic behaviour)
15:03<spippi>please i want trash icon in desktop, i have debian wheezy, hw can i do this?
15:03<donofrio>just when you run the detect command it loads proper module for kernel but now working with gdm3?
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15:04<newbage1>babilen: I think it got far enough in the debian boot to (somehow) bless GRUB, which I'm taking as progress since it didn't do that before...
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15:05<newbage1>babilen: totally guessing though
15:05<newbage1>babilen: we're back into shell… now, about fglrx…
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15:07<newbage1>babilen: also, 'blessing' (as far as I can tell from the several times I've used it) simply indicates which bootloader to boot at startup
15:08<babilen>ack
15:08<donofrio>http://paste.debian.net/102092
15:08<donofrio>show's "it's loaded"
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15:11<retrospectacus>donofrio: then you're done. but you want to use fglrx? You cannot, it is not for powerpc.
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15:13<newbage1>babilen: manual configuration require to enable fglrx driver
15:13<newbage1>babilen: and apparently, sudo aticonfig —initiall should be sufficient for most cases
15:14<anony>hm, the ati how to debian wiki thing works man
15:14<anony>why manual work?
15:14<retrospectacus>https://wiki.debian.org/ATIProprietary#configure
15:15<babilen>newbage1: No, please don't do that. Did you already install it? (I was sort of waiting for you to say "Yeah, done that")
15:15<newbage1>anony: I don't know… it just popped up
15:15<babilen>newbage1: retrospectacus just gave the correct link.
15:15<newbage1>babilen: yeah, I ran both strings and the fglrx string gave me this 'popup'
15:16<anony>ull get trapped in the jungle if u go manual on ATI shit
15:16<anony>dont go there man
15:16<anony>haha
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15:17<retrospectacus>newbage1: running "echo" gave you a "popup"? ,.... ???
15:17<newbage1>anony: ok, so, I want the mkdir… and echo -e …. lines, right?
15:17<babilen>newbage1: Okay, perfect. Please configure it by creating the configuration file as detailed on that wiki page.
15:17<newbage1>retrospectacus: negative,
15:17<babilen>retrospectacus: I am sure it was the installation of fglrx-driver newbage1 is referring to
15:17<anony>newbage1 https://wiki.debian.org/AtiHowTo
15:17<anony>this
15:17<newbage1>babilen: configuring
15:18<anony>very simple
15:18-!-jalalsfs__ [~jalal@183.83.138.58] has joined #debian
15:18<anony>done in 3 min
15:18-!-fredtilesoftman [~dan@HSI-KBW-149-172-183-31.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #debian
15:18<newbage1>running this: mkdir /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d
15:18<newbage1>then this: echo -e 'Section "Device"\n\tIdentifier "My GPU"\n\tDriver "fglrx"\nEndSection' > /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/20-fglrx.conf
15:19<babilen>newbage1: yeah (no need to repeat it in here really)
15:19-!-jalalsfs_ [~jalal@183.83.138.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:19<newbage1>babilen: just for confirmation
15:19<newbage1>babilen: sorry
15:19<babilen>Action confirmed
15:20<babilen>newbage1: That will configure Xorg to use the fglrx driver. Once you've done that you can try rebooting (bless or no bless?)
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15:22<newbage1>babilen: I'll reboot and bless if needed
15:22<babilen>So, lets hope that sorts it out.
15:22-!-hedge_ [~hedge@krlh-5f720a1c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #debian
15:23<newbage1>babilen: fingers crossed
15:24<newbage1>babilen: hanged: [drm] GMBUS [i915 gmbus vga] timed out, falling back to bit banging on pin 2
15:25<SynrGy>i915 whuh? i thought we had radeon. is this dual?
15:25<babilen>Okay, guess a new xserver-xorg-video-intel version is needed for vga_switcheroo
15:25<babilen>SynrGy: It's dual, yeah
15:25<SynrGy>yeah, dual. oh joy.
15:26<newbage1>babilen: also, I think the reason we got blessed back to GRUB a minute ago was because it was a 'fresh' kernel install… this reboot went smothly straight into rEFInd
15:26-!-damian_ [~damian@cpe-70-116-43-201.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #debian
15:26<babilen>newbage1: You can not, by chance, turn of the ati or intel GPU?
15:26<babilen>*off
15:27-!-mode/#debian [+l 722] by debhelper
15:27<newbage1>https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/MacBook_Pro_8,1_/_8,2_/_8,3_(2011)#Troubleshooting
15:27<newbage1>babilen: I think so...
15:27<oconnore>how do I avoid (or detect) my automated, remote, unattended package installs from being blocked by a "dpkg was interrupted, please manually run dpkg --configure -a"?
15:28<donofrio>is the a200 able to work once you go though wiki atihototo site?
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15:28<oconnore>is there a query I can run to see if that is needed? and can I run dpkg --configure -a such that it doesn't prompt?
15:28<newbage1>although, this was the step the jm_ thought didn't help…maybe now it will help...
15:28<retrospectacus>donofrio: no fglrx on powerpc
15:29<newbage1>retrospectacus: i don't understand...
15:29<newbage1>retrospectacus: nevermind…
15:29<retrospectacus>newbage1: donofrio is on powerpc which fglrx is not produced for.
15:30<newbage1>got it
15:30-!-FJB-Guy [~FJB-Guy@0001ad56.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
15:30<FJB-Guy>Justin Bieber is a faggot
15:30<FJB-Guy>shit in her bastard face
15:30<newbage1>FJB-Guy: could not agree more
15:31<newbage1>FJB-Guy: precisely
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15:31<donofrio>not using fglrx but stright up at ati and a200 is listed as valid by https://packages.debian.org/sid/xserver-xorg-video-radeon
15:31<devil>newbage1: don't feed
15:31<retrospectacus>donofrio: yes, you got that working but you say it is not good enough
15:31-!-mode/#debian [+o babilen] by ChanServ
15:31-!-mode/#debian [+q *!*@0001ad56.user.oftc.net] by babilen
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15:31-!-mode/#debian [-o babilen] by babilen
15:31<newbage1>devil: I'll try to be less charitable
15:31<donofrio>yah its still software rendering
15:32<donofrio>needs xorg.conf file guessing
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15:33<babilen>newbage1: Could you try turning off either the intel gpu or the ati gpu (which would, probably, necessitate removing /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/20-fglrx.conf)
15:34<babilen>newbage1: Also try those kernel commnand line options first - you can edit it by hitting "e" in the grub menu on top of the kernel and boot with F10
15:34<newbage1>why can't I cd to etc/grub ?
15:34<babilen>newbage1: It should be /etc/grub.d - but what are you trying to do?
15:35<newbage1>append: i915.modeset=0 radeon.modeset=0 to the /etc/grub/defaults LINUX line
15:35<newbage1>babilen: I'm slowly picking up how to do what's in the recommendation pages...
15:35<newbage1>babilen: this is extremely educational
15:36<retrospectacus>donofrio: no, there is no xorg.conf necessary to use radeon
15:36<babilen>newbage1: I wouldn't make those changes permanent (yet), but to simply add them manually during boot. That is done by editing the kernel command line as indicated earlier.
15:37<newbage1>babilen: good call…
15:37<donofrio>retrospectacus, then what is next step to enable hardeare rendering
15:37<babilen>That way you can easily try them without having to edit files all the time -- just reboot, edit, try
15:37-!-spippi [~spippi@217.200.202.198] has joined #debian
15:38<retrospectacus>donofrio: run "glxinfo|head" and see what it says by "direct rendering"
15:38<retrospectacus>donofrio: install mesa-utils if that command is not found
15:39<donofrio>http://paste.debian.net/102098
15:40<retrospectacus>"Yes"
15:40<retrospectacus>you're done
15:41<donofrio>retrospectacus, will not by what xbmc shows....its speed is way slow a keyclick every 10 sec...
15:41<retrospectacus>it's the same on my raspberry pi
15:41-!-hashem [~hashem@173.14.129.9] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:41<blast007>no, that sounds slower than a Raspberry Pi..
15:42<donofrio>it is....and I know its way faster cause in full osx it rocks...
15:43<anony>newbage1 did it work?
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15:43<donofrio>glxinfo returns "OpenGL rendering string: Software Rasterizer" same as xbmc says
15:43-!-f10 [~f10@188-192-181-164-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #debian
15:44<retrospectacus>donofrio: I suppose AMD/ATI made a driver for OSX on PowerPC
15:44<newbage1>anony: a cooling problem developed, I just put a bag of ice cubes under it and am retrying
15:44<donofrio>dunno probably apple and ati, ways need to figure out how to get hardware rendering
15:45<donofrio>then I'm almost done with this quest
15:45<anony>newbage1 what do u mean? did the fan stop or something?
15:45-!-captagon [~captagon@p5DC85351.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #debian
15:46<newbage1>anony: some setups run fans, some don't, I got CPU throttled b/c of the temperature
15:46<newbage1>anony: I don't think rEFInd runs fans
15:47<newbage1>…not that a bootloader should ever have to worry about fans
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15:48<donofrio>anyone else here running older powerpc with ati and have hardware excellurated graphics
15:48<newbage1>ok… so, I have to apply the modeset at boot in either GRUB or rEFInd
15:48-!-biroladislau [~biroladis@89.120.53.119] has joined #debian
15:49<newbage1>how to do this in GRUB is detailed nicely in the article… however, booting in GRUB hangs at 'waiting for /dev to be populated'
15:49<newbage1>so, I'd like to add i915.modeset=0 radeon.modeset=0 at boot in rEFInd
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15:49<babilen>*shrug*
15:50<newbage1>babilen: so just add the same line?
15:50<newbage1>babilen: I don't know enough about GRUB/rEFInd line editing
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15:51<newbage1>…screw it… I'm trying it
15:52<babilen>newbage1: I know how to do it in grub, I have no idea about rEFInd
15:52<newbage1>oh holy christmas balls
15:53<newbage1>things have happened
15:53<retrospectacus>the ice melted?
15:53-!-hashem [~hashem@173.14.129.9] has joined #debian
15:53<newbage1>things…are…happening
15:53-!-Hydrar [~hydrar@h-79-97.a163.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #debian
15:53<donofrio>how do I get good progress things happening here?
15:53-!-mtn [~mtn@dpc6744160044.direcpc.com] has joined #debian
15:53<newbage1>I…
15:54<newbage1>I… think I have a live command line
15:54<Hydrar>Anyone know if there's a free alternative to the Plop boot manager, to let me boot with bios to a cd, initialize usb and chainload the usb mbr(Bios lacks USB boot support)
15:54<newbage1>how do I test this theory?
15:55-!-skribblezatcha [~skribblez@0001bec4.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:56<babilen>newbage1: What does it look like? Does it say "login: ..." or so?
15:56<newbage1>oh, my god it asked me to log in
15:56<retrospectacus>Hydrar: plop is the recommended way. You should only have to do it once though
15:56<newbage1>…and… I gave it my password and it logged me in...
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15:57*retrospectacus envisions the pillar of light at newbage1's workstation
15:57<Hydrar>retrospectacus: I was going to keep the system on USB though, figured if there was a way to not involve it in the boot process, but guess I have to
15:57<babilen>newbage1: Oh yeah! :)
15:57<Hydrar>That, or throw out the mobo that is
15:58<newbage1>babilen: ok, mce: [Hardware Error]: Machine check events logged
15:58<retrospectacus>Hydrar: why not install onto the hard drive
15:58<babilen>newbage1: Turning off modeset for both cards is, however, not really great.
15:58-!-musurgia [~andrew@wireless-226-34.uchicago.edu] has joined #debian
15:58<newbage1>I think we have a some basic configuring to do but we're FINALLY in!!!
15:58<Hydrar>retrospectacus: It's dead, was thinking of running it diskless, since I've done so with multiple machines so far with success, manually installed with debootstrap, just the bios being problematic
15:58<Hydrar>But worst case I'll have to dig out a old drive just to keep in for the bootloader
15:59<babilen>newbage1: I'd play with just doing that for one card at a time to see what the problem is. You can now continue with installing Xorg and a desktop environment or window manager
15:59<babilen>dpkg: tell newbage1 -about install xorg
15:59<Hydrar>Generally usb is faster than harddrives in my experience, like cheapo SSD
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16:00<newbage1>babilen: in other words, only specify modeset=0 for 1 card at a time?
16:00<retrospectacus>Hydrar: perhaps you could upgrade the BIOS (got a floppy?)
16:00<babilen>newbage1: yes
16:00<newbage1>babilen: gotcha
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16:00<Hydrar>retrospectacus: Maybe, I think it's some old abit mobo, and abit is out of business iirc
16:01<newbage1>babilen: ok, how to I tell it to rebootfrom the command line
16:01<newbage1>??
16:01<babilen>newbage1: "reboot" ;)
16:01<newbage1>haha
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16:01<newbage1>-bash: reboot: command not found
16:01<newbage1>hmmm
16:02<donofrio>anyone use ati with powerpc?
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16:02<ncl>newbage1: sudo /sbin/reboot
16:02<babilen>newbage1: You have to do that as root. Become root with "su" (give you root password) and try again.
16:02<mtn>newbage1: shutdown -r now
16:02<babilen>ncl: sudo is most likely now configured yet.
16:02-!-fnordperfect [~fab@95-90-53-205-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3]
16:02<babilen>(nor installed)
16:02<babilen>*not
16:03<ncl>su -c /sbin/reboot?
16:03<newbage1>it asked me for sudo password
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16:04<newbage1>rebooting…
16:04<newbage1>I have been at the for days… I AM SO EXCITED!!!
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16:05*babilen chuckles
16:05<newbage1>thank you to everyone in this channel for helping
16:05<donofrio>now I just need an xorg.conf from an ati r200 and I should be working too correct?
16:05<babilen>newbage1: "radeon.modeset=0 i915.modeset=1 i915.lvds_channel_mode=2" might be worth it now (and without the third option)
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16:06<Hydrar>Why turn off the radeon modeset, it breaks?
16:06<babilen>But then you are no longer using radeon :-/
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16:07<babilen>newbage1: I guess that intel modeset is the culprit and that you could try it, but then the Xorg driver might be problematic without KMS (kernel mode setting, what you disable with nomodeset (or modeset=0))
16:07<newbage1>babilen: 'i915.modeset=0' boots me up just fine
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16:08<babilen>yeah, i915.modeset=1 doesn't?
16:08<newbage1>babilen: Im' trying them 1 at a time still
16:08<babilen>sure
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16:08<newbage1>babilen: do I have to use root to reboot everytime?
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16:08<dat>yes
16:08<babilen>newbage1: Try i915.modeset=1 i915.lvds_channel_mode=2 now please
16:08<newbage1>shite
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16:09<babilen>newbage1: We will configure sudo for your user soon, but you need superuser privileges to run "reboot"
16:09<newbage1>I hould've chosen a shorter root passwor
16:09<babilen>heh
16:09<babilen>NO YOU SHOULD NOT
16:10<newbage1>babilen: but my fingers hurt…
16:10<donofrio>tuff
16:13<newbage1>babilen: ok, trying with i915.modeset=1 and channel2
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16:14<newbage1>babilen: not quite working
16:14-!-pedro [~prokter@a89-155-101-4.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #debian
16:16<babilen>newbage1: What does that mean?
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16:17<newbage1>"radeon.modeset=0 i915.modeset=1 i915.lvds_channel_mode=2" gives one of the hangs "i915 gmbus vga" timed out
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16:18<babilen>pity
16:18<newbage1>I have so many kernel images that rEFInd is seeing
16:18<babilen>newbage1: You are no longer using radeon, setting options for that is not necessary
16:19<babilen>I still wonder if a new intel module would allow modesetting :-/
16:20<donofrio>just did ybin -v yah fun
16:20<babilen>newbage1: Mind trying the upgrade to testing? I don't actually think it is a good idea for you to run it, but it would be interesting to see.
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16:21<babilen>newbage1: Wait, do you have xorg installed already?
16:21<newbage1>babilen: sorry, 1 moment… household issues...
16:22<babilen>newbage1: Sure, please install Xorg and try the last set of options again
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16:23<newbage1>babilen: ok, i915.modeset=0 will boot but radeon.modeset=0 will not boot
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16:24<Neal>how do i install unstable packages from the package managers?
16:25<donofrio>updated yaboot.conf and checking to see if its faster.......nope same speed
16:25<babilen>newbage1: Yeah, forget about radeon (we installed fglrx) -- modeset on intel is the problem here.
16:25<babilen>Neal: Generally speaking: you don't. What are you trying to do exactly?
16:25<newbage1>babilen: gotcha
16:25<newbage1>ok, I'm logged in… now what?
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16:26<babilen>newbage1: Did you install intel already?
16:26<Neal>babilen: i want 5.0+ version of zsh. current version is 4.3.17 on wheezy stable
16:26<babilen>err
16:26<babilen>newbage1: Xorg I mean :)
16:26<newbage1>babilen: I don't think so
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16:26<newbage1>babilen: do I need root priveleges
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16:26<newbage1>?
16:27-!-mode/#debian [+l 721] by debhelper
16:27<retrospectacus>Neal: you should be able to backport texinfo and zsh from sid
16:27-!-ribe_ [~ribe@c-46-246-20-241.anonymous.at.anonine.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:27<babilen>newbage1: Try it and reboot with "i915.modeset=1 i915.lvds_channel_mode=2" -- and yes, you do need root privileges for that. Feel free to install sudo (apt-get install sudo) and then add your user to the sudo group with "adduser YOURUSER sudo". Relogin and you can run command with superuser privileges by prefixing them with "sudo "
16:28<Neal>retrospectacus: i have no idea what that means D:
16:28<babilen>newbage1: You can also bcome root with "sudo -i" -- That way you can give your user's password.
16:28<babilen>dpkg: tell Neal about ssb
16:28<newbage1>babilen: no specifications for radeon.modeset ?
16:28<babilen>newbage1: No, you don't use that module.
16:28<jonadab>Hm... Remind me, if I am logged into my desktop session (display :0) as user foo but have a terminal window where I su to user bar, what is the magic incantation to allow GUI applications started from that terminal to open the display?
16:28-!-fr33k [~fvb@546B3A3F.cm-12-4a.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:29<retrospectacus>Neal: it means you add a deb-src line and thus download the sid source, then build it yourself for wheezy
16:29<Neal>ah. i'll try that. thanks
16:29<retrospectacus>Neal: the robot sent you some instructions
16:29<Neal>reading :)
16:30<babilen>newbage1: That one was replaced by the proprietary fglrx one. I'd install Xorg and check if it starts ("startx") ... also try the reboot.
16:30<retrospectacus>Neal: you will need to do it with "texinfo" package first, to be able to do it with zsh
16:30<newbage1>babilen: booting with "i915.modeset=1 i915.lvds_channel_mode=2" hangs
16:30<babilen>also install texinfo before backporting zsh
16:30-!-damian_ [~damian@70.116.43.201] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out]
16:30<retrospectacus>(newer texinfo is a build-dependency for the newer zsh)
16:30<babilen>newbage1: After installing Xorg?
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16:32<jonadab>Oh, right, xhost, that's what the command was called. (Been a long time since I did this...)
16:32<newbage1>babilen: ummm…ok, I'm a little confused…
16:32<newbage1>lol
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16:32<babilen>newbage1: Okay, boot with "i915.modeset=0" and try to run "startx" (we accept that modeset has to be disabled for now and try to run the Xorg)
16:33-!-gregor__ [~gregor@188-22-193-236.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #debian
16:33<Neal>i am still lost. i added "deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian wheezy-backports main" to my sources.list - should i have not?
16:33<Neal>is this a lot of work?
16:33<newbage1>babilen: how do I install xorg?
16:33<babilen>dpkg: tell newbage1 -about install x
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16:33<newbage1>babilen: oookkk…got it
16:33<jonadab>Yeah. xhost +local:bar does the trick.
16:33<retrospectacus>Neal: that's not really necessary since zsh and texinfo are not in wheezy-backports
16:34<babilen>Doesn't hurt though
16:34<retrospectacus>nope
16:35<retrospectacus>Neal: you need a "deb-src ... sid main" line for this
16:35<newbage1>and just 'startx' now?
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16:37-!-mode/#debian [+l 715] by debhelper
16:37<babilen>yeah
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16:38<newbage1>babilen: ok, my fglrx.conf file has some wrong input value in it?
16:38<newbage1>"-e" ?
16:38<newbage1>I nano'd to it and don't know what I'm looking at
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16:38<newbage1>babilen: anyway, xorg started but that kept it from runnoing
16:38<babilen>newbage1: yeah, it should look like https://wiki.debian.org/ATIProprietary#Configuration
16:38<Neal>retrospectacus: added that. now apt-get upgrade lists lots of packages :o
16:39<Neal>any way to only get zsh from sid?
16:39<retrospectacus>Neal: no reason to run that
16:39<babilen>Neal: Are you sure that you added "deb-src" for sid and not "deb" ?
16:39<retrospectacus>Neal: just apt-get update. Upgrade should not see sid things
16:39*babilen shuts up
16:39<Hydrar>newbage1: xorg.conf can be generated for fglrx using aticonfig --initial if I reember correctly
16:40<babilen>no
16:40<retrospectacus>Neal: what babilen said, very important
16:40<babilen>Well, it can but that is not necessary
16:40<retrospectacus>Neal: if "upgrade" wants to upgrade things, maybe you should. But that is not related to your original goal
16:40<Neal>i actually added both deb and deb-src
16:40<Neal>removed deb now
16:41-!-knives47z [~smuxi@49.145.85.251] has joined #debian
16:41<Neal>now upgrade doesn't want ot upgrade anything :)
16:42<Hydrar>This tends to be why I just install dget and use it on the .dsc file at packages.debian.org :)
16:42<newbage1>babilen: so put this "echo -e 'Section "Device"\n\tIdentifier "My GPU"\n\tDriver "fglrx"\nEndSection' > /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/20-fglrx.conf" into my 20-fglrx.conf file via nano?
16:42<retrospectacus>Neal: great. now install the packages dpkg mentioned.
16:42-!-kilian_ [~kilian@82.239.81.116] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
16:42<newbage1>babilen: because the formatting seems different in the 0-fglrx.conf file
16:43<babilen>newbage1: No, you want the file to look like: https://wiki.debian.org/ATIProprietary#Configuration -- four lines, starting with "Section ..."
16:43<newbage1>20-fglrx.conf*
16:43<retrospectacus>Neal: then the build-dep command for texinfo, then the -b source texinfo, that should run a while and produce some texinfo.deb file.
16:43<newbage1>babilen: got it
16:43<babilen>newbage1: The echo command just creates that in one command .. but you can use nano to do it and if you had "-e" in there before something went wrong.
16:43<retrospectacus>Neal: by "packages" I mean build-essential
16:44<newbage1>babilen: FATAL module fglrx not found
16:44<retrospectacus>Neal: once you have texinfo...deb file, run "dpkg -i texinfoEtc.deb"
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16:45<retrospectacus>Neal: then repeat build-dep, source and dpkg -i for zsh
16:45<newbage1>babilen: in what directory are modules kept and how can I check for them?
16:45<Neal>alright cool, thanks
16:45-!-artista_frustrado [~Artista@00012e3e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:45<Neal>at -b source texinfo currently
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16:47<babilen>newbage1: Hmm, does it work if you remove that file? Not sure what went wrong during your fglrx installation. Feel free to run "apt-get purge fglrx-driver" for now.
16:48<babilen>newbage1: But then I am afk now. I wish you all the best and hope that you will finally be able to use your computer. This has been the most arduous installation I have witnessed in a long time.
16:48<newbage1>babilen: popup: fglrx driver is still enabled in xorg.conf
16:49<newbage1>babilen: haha…well, thank you SOOO much!!!
16:49<newbage1>babilen: your help has been very much appreciated… you're awesome!
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16:51<donofrio>still playing with yaboot.conf
16:51<donofrio>have an xorg.conf now
16:51-!-oldskool1 [~ad@213.103.191.200] has joined #debian
16:51<babilen>newbage1: Yes, you will have to remove that configuration file. I am really not sure what went wrong during the installation of that module, but I would like to see some actual output when debugging that.
16:51<donofrio>now I have no video....)-:
16:52<donofrio>I mean no console text video
16:52<newbage1>ok, upon 'startx' the system prints 'Fatal server error: no screens found'
16:52<donofrio>gui just blinked
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16:53<oldskool1>Sup, I have a question. Is there a way to easily install an older version of a package that's not in the current repos? I mean without having to download all dependencies by hand. Is there any repo that holds all versions of all packages in the last month for instance? Thanks a lot!
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16:53<retrospectacus>!snapshots
16:53<dpkg>http://snapshot.debian.org/ is an archive of almost all Debian packages uploaded since 2005, including those removed from the official archives because they were very buggy, unusable, broken, vulnerable or in some way non-free. This service replaces snapshot.debian.net. http://www.debian.org/News/2010/20100412
16:54-!-swaechter [~quassel@79-81.3-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:54<oldskool1>retrospectacus: Thanks!
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16:56<newbage1>donofrio: seems like you and I are having similar problems
16:57<donofrio>well gui works...yah agree you changed your grub I changed my yaboot (same thing it seems)
16:57<donofrio>I'm only ati r200 card not i915
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16:58<donofrio>now my menu is off the top of the screen.....ah xorg.conf how I didn't miss you
16:59-!-Ekroz [~yannick@5-49-228-104.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #debian
16:59<newbage1>how do I remove xorg.conf?
16:59<donofrio>rm but why?
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16:59<jonadab>newbage1: sudo mv xorg.conf xorg.conf.removed
17:00<newbage1>ok, maybe I need to rm the fglrx.conf file?
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17:01<newbage1>babilen recommended removing but I wasn't 100% sure which conf file they were referring to
17:01-!-roentgen [~none@0001cab0.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
17:01<donofrio>https://www.readablity.com/articles/m0fwbbdn
17:01-!-roentgen [~none@0001cab0.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
17:01<jonadab>I would suggest renaming it out of the way with mv, rather than irrevocably removing it.
17:02<jonadab>Then if things go horribly, horribly wrong, you can mv it back.
17:02<retrospectacus>sudo mv 20-fglrx.conf /root/
17:03-!-nadie [~nadie@159.Red-81-34-243.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #debian
17:03<donofrio>using this http://unix-master.blogspot.co.at/2012/09/debian-squeeze-on-ibook-g4.html as guide
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17:04<newbage1>oh, no, I purged fglrx-driver
17:04<retrospectacus>newbage1: did the step "apt-get install linux-headers-blahblah fglrx-driver" fail? (earlier)
17:04<newbage1>I have no idea what directory it was in… should I just reinstall fglrx?
17:04<newbage1>retrospectacus: I don't think so
17:05<retrospectacus>newbage1: it's in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/
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17:06<donofrio>really do not want to downgrage mesa
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17:06<newbage1>ok, I've moved 20-fglrx.conf
17:07<newbage1>now trying 'startx'
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17:08<newbage1>still not running
17:08-!-jhr [~jhr@luther.jhr-online.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:09<newbage1>should I try to reinstall fglrx-driver?
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17:09<retrospectacus>newbage1: I think so. Are you on the bacport kernel?
17:09<newbage1>or go with an open driver?
17:09<donofrio>how do I get tty;s visable again?
17:09<newbage1>retrospectacus: yes bpo
17:09<retrospectacus>iirc the radeon driver would not let you boot? (froze)
17:09<Hydrar>Can I somehow make a default set of KDE Widgets for all users systemwide?
17:10<newbage1>retrospectacus: iirc?
17:10-!-Ekroz [~yannick@5-49-228-104.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Quit: Quitte]
17:10<retrospectacus>!iirc
17:10<dpkg>IIRC, "IIRC" is an acronym for "If I Recall Correctly", or "If I remember correctly"
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17:10<newbage1>retrospectacus: I can only boot with i915.modeset=0
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17:11<retrospectacus>newbage1: I would try this again: https://wiki.debian.org/ATIProprietary#AMD_Catalyst_12.6
17:11<newbage1>retrospectacus: we started to move quickly there and I just followed babilen
17:11<retrospectacus>newbage1: starting on step 2
17:11<retrospectacus>newbage1: and put " -t wheezy-backports" into the "aptitude -r install" command
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17:12<newbage1>retrospectacus: and how do I format 'linux-headers-$(uname -r|sed 's,[^-]*-[^-]*-,,') fglrx-driver' ?
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17:13<retrospectacus>newbage1: ummm what does "uname -r" output?
17:13<newbage1>3.14-0.bpo.1-amd64
17:14-!-ffws [~ffws@uhweb14205.united-hoster.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:14<retrospectacus>newbage1: the instead of "-$(uname -r|sed 's,[^-]*-[^-]*-,,')", just put -amd64
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17:14<retrospectacus>so the full command is aptitude -r -t wheezy-backports install linux-headers-amd64 fglrx-driver
17:15-!-anony [~x@46-236-79-210.customer.t3.se] has quit [Quit: Lämnar]
17:16<retrospectacus>and let us know if (and how) it fails
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17:16<donofrio>glxinfo | grep render returns still OpenGL string "Software Rasterizer
17:16<donofrio>any thoughts
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17:20<newbage1>retrospectacus: no fail… just a blue screen: manual config. require to enabl fglrx driver
17:21<retrospectacus>ok hit tab and enter or so to dismiss that
17:22-!-fr0umi [~froumi@37-4-190-109.dsl.ovh.fr] has joined #debian
17:23<newbage1>retrospectacus: ok
17:23<newbage1>back to command line
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17:24<newbage1>how do I make 20-fglrx.conf?
17:24<retrospectacus>sudo mv /root/20-fglrx.conf /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/
17:25<donofrio>http://paste.debian.net/102117
17:25<donofrio>see how it says hardware accel: none )-: r200 is loaded
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17:26<donofrio>gnash is playing chilipepers
17:26<donofrio>(-:
17:26<donofrio>just not 360p had to use 240p
17:26<newbage1>retrospectacus: duh I forgot I put it there haha
17:26<babilen>newbage1: What does "dkms status" give you? Does it list fglrx?
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17:27<donofrio>just need video issue fixed and I'm almost perfect flash seems to work at least youtube so far
17:27<retrospectacus>newbage1: good idea eh
17:27<newbage1>retrospectacus: FATAL: module fglrx not found
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17:28<newbage1>dkms: command not ound
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17:29<petn-randall>donofrio: Not surprising since glxinfo already told you that ... :)
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17:30<babilen>newbage1: Run that as root/with sudo
17:30<donofrio>ok but why is it sooooooooooo slow and only using software rendering when r200 loaded along with xorg.conf
17:30<newbage1>fglrx, 13.12: added
17:30<newbage1>what is dkms?
17:31<newbage1>nevermind I asked dpkg
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17:33<retrospectacus>newbage1: is that machine online yet?
17:33-!-menschmeier [~menschmei@2a02:908:da21:1900:ca60:ff:fe75:b603] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:33<newbage1>is there anything in xorg's system config directory 'usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d that would be messing this up?
17:33<newbage1>retrospectacus: yes, it's online
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17:34<retrospectacus>newbage1: can you run "apt-get install pastebinit" and then "pastebinit -b http://paste.debian.net /var/log/Xorg.0.log"
17:35<donofrio>oh havn't looked there yet
17:35<donofrio>facepalm
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17:36<newbage1>retrospectacus: http://paste.debian.net/102121
17:38<babilen>newbage1: For which kernel?
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17:38<babilen>retrospectacus, newbage1: It might very well be necessary to switch over to the ati card (given that this is switchable graphic). But not today (for me at least)
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17:38<newbage1>babilen: should still be backports, no?
17:39<retrospectacus>hmm
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17:39<newbage1>babilen: is there a way to delete the other kernel for now?
17:39<babilen>newbage1: No, you have two graphic cards (intel and ati) and you can switch between them.
17:40<babilen>newbage1: So you can that dkms command. Does that not list the kernels for which the driver was compiled?
17:41-!-angrydev [~dev@174.47.212.34] has quit [Quit: Back to life]
17:41<newbage1>'sudo dkms status' returns 'fglrx, 13.12: added'
17:41<newbage1>I'm assuming that means the bpo kernel
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17:44<newbage1>babilen: also, I thought I couldn't switch between them since I had to boot with i915.modeset=0 (which I assume means off)
17:45<babilen>newbage1: I'd recommend to read https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HybridGraphics now -- also try starting xorg without fglrx (it should use intel then)
17:45<babilen>newbage1: No, that doesn't turn it off that simply disabled modesetting (kms) -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mode_setting
17:45<donofrio>my xorg log @ http://paste.debian.net/102124
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17:48<babilen>newbage1: Once you've tinkered with vga switcheroo you might want to use the discrete graphic (i.e. the ati card with fglrx) -- that might draw more energy, but the intel card might be pesky due to lack of modesetting. But then try variations. fglrx cannot start it this time as it is not the right one for the "intel" card. (well, obviously) and it wants to manage that due to the fact that you haven't switched it yet.
17:49<babilen>newbage1: So, does "ls -l /sys/kernel/debug/vgaswitcheroo/switch" return a file listing?
17:50<babilen>newbage1: And what does "cat /sys/kernel/debug/vgaswitcheroo/switch" give you if that is the case?
17:50<newbage1>babilen: there's nothing in /sys/kernel/debug
17:51<newbage1>babilen: how do I start xorg without fglrx?
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17:52<newbage1>I already tried moving 20-fglrx.conf to /root/ and running startx
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17:54<newbage1>so, right now I'm running only on my i915 graphics but without modesetting?
17:54-!-alumnochartoon [~robles@186.122.47.211] has joined #debian
17:54<newbage1>I haven't followed completely… how do I know which card is running my graphics?
17:54<babilen>newbage1: Moving the configuration file out of the way should have accomplished that. (I guess that that fails because you don't have modesetting for your intel card)
17:54<babilen>newbage1: Well, there are various bits to this.
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17:55<babilen>newbage1: The configuration file tells Xorg to use the "fglrx" driver for your graphic card. That would work if the ATI card is being "switched on", but obviously fails if it is not (i.e. if the intel GPU is being tried to be used with the fglrx driver)
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17:56<babilen>newbage1: If you move the configuration file Xorg probably uses the Intel card, but something goes wrong there as you had to disable modesetting. I can't tell for sure as I haven't seen the logs.
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17:57<newbage1>this is weird...
17:57<babilen>newbage1: As you cannot boot without turning off modesetting the intel card is a bit out of the question (unless a newer Xorg version changes that, the aforementioned upgrade to testing (/msg dpkg wheezy->jessie))
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17:58<newbage1>so, switcheroo is really my only option
17:58<babilen>newbage1: So, what I would investigate now is if you can get the "vgaswitcheroo" part working and check if turning off the intel card and using only the ati one works out.
17:58-!-tcurtis [~tcurtis@24-52-227-71.cable.teksavvy.com] has joined #debian
17:58<newbage1>babilen: I'll start reading
17:58<babilen>Well, you have switchable graphics, there is no way around that. I quite intentionally did not buy switchable graphics, so I lack knowledge in that area unfortunately and would also be more familiar with Optimus than vgaswitcheroo.
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17:59<babilen>"The vga_switcheroo mechanism will only be active when the kernel is booted with either the "modeset=1" kernel option, and/or the "nomodeset" option being absent." hehe
17:59<babilen>*sob*
18:00<newbage1>lol
18:00<newbage1>honestly, as hard as this is… I'm having fun
18:00<newbage1>lol
18:00<newbage1>I'm learning so much
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18:02<babilen>newbage1: Well, upgrade to jessie and see if that sorts you out. jessie is the current development branch of Debian and will, eventually, become the new stable release. Unfortunately that means that running that involves some knowledge of the packaging system, but it would be interesting to see if the xserver-xorg-video-intel version in there copes better with your graphic chip.
18:02<newbage1>babilen: so, the modeset=0 is a kernel setting and not for the card?
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18:03<babilen>newbage1: "modeset" is a configuration parameter for a kernel module (think of it as a "driver") and is being passed on the kernel command line. (the kernel allows you to pass options that way)
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18:03<donofrio>jessie for powerpc too?
18:03<newbage1>babilen: so, wouldn't the i915.modeset=0 parameter only apply for that module?
18:04<newbage1>shouldn't my fglrx/radeon/whatever modeset be equal to 1 by default?
18:05<newbage1>…and therefore enable the vga switcheroo thingy?
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18:05<babilen>newbage1: Yes, it would. (but it needs to be on)
18:06<babilen>And yeah, it is on by default (so passing =1 shouldn't be necessary)
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18:06<babilen>I guess you have modesetting enabled on both (hence the catch 22)
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18:07<newbage1>babilen: how can it be enabled on both if I passed i915.modeset=0 ?
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18:08<newbage1>babilen: also, before we go farther, is there a way to turn on my fans?
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18:09<newbage1>my shit be like thermogenic as hell
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18:11<babilen>newbage1: Take a look at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MacBookPro8-2 - it has some documentation on fans.
18:11<babilen>judd: v macfanctl
18:11<judd>No package named 'macfanctl' was found in i386.
18:11<babilen>judd: v macfanctld
18:11<judd>Package: macfanctld on i386 -- jessie: 0.6+repack1-1; sid: 0.6+repack1-1
18:11<babilen>only jessie
18:12<babilen>newbage1: Upgrade to jessie, install that ^^^ package and give that a try
18:12<abrotman>the thinkfan may work-ish ..
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18:13<babilen>newbage1: (also don't forget to load coretemp)
18:13<babilen>Anyway. /me is out.
18:13<newbage1>thanks babs
18:13<newbage1>you rule
18:14<newbage1>so much helps
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18:16<newbage1>ok, I'm going to facepalm when I see this but how do I upgrade to Jessie?
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18:19<newbage1>so, wheezy > jessie in my /etc/apt/source.list file?
18:19-!-me [~me@195-240-141-77.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #debian
18:19<Hydrar>newbage1: Switch the sources.list lines to jessie, then just run aptitude dist-upgrade iirc
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18:19<Hydrar>Just keep in mind doing it the other way around is not supported as far as I know
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18:20<newbage1>schweet
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18:20<babilen>dpkg: tell newbage1 about wheezy->jessie
18:20-!-me [~me@195-240-141-77.ip.telfort.nl] has quit []
18:20<babilen>And yeah, it is not supported.
18:21<babilen>newbage1: Also read http://debian-handbook.info/browse/stable/sect.release-lifecycle.html + https://wiki.debian.org/DebianUnstable
18:21<babilen>newbage1: Oh, that handbook is great btw.
18:23<newbage1>seriously though, I'm sticking with debian now though… the fact that #debian is this helpful…damn…
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18:25<newbage1>legit y'all… debian is legit…
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18:34<newbage1>ok, if I'm in nano and want to save (ctrl+o) but I'm getting permission denied, how do I sudo save my edits?
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18:37<oldlaptop>newbage1: you run nano as root
18:37<newbage1>cool
18:37<newbage1>oldlaptop: thanks
18:37<dotut>how do i get logrotate to compress kern.log -> kern.log.1.gz instead of kern.log->kern.log.1
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18:38<dotut>compress options doesn't seem to handle compressing kern.log.1 although kern.log.[234..] are compressed
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18:43<gsimmons>dotut: You probably want to omit 'delaycompress' from the relevant section in /etc/logrotate.d/rsyslog.
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18:43<petn-randall>dotut: check the man page to logrotate, you're looking for the option 'delaycompress'.
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19:27<dotut>gsimmons: thanks, i had come across that option but wasn't to sure about removing it...thanks i'll try that
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19:27<dotut>petn-randall: thanks
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19:35<dotut>removing delaycompress works...thanks
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20:13<newbage1>why does debian say "You have new mail." when I boot?
20:13<themill>probably because you have new mail
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20:20<oldlaptop>newbage1: traditional unix email works a little different from Outlook Express
20:21<oldlaptop>debian (and most other unix) systes have, by default, a traditional mail system running to take care of system messages
20:22<The_Ben24>Could someone please tell me what video recording software would be good for webcams?
20:22<abrotman>why would anyone compare that to OE?
20:22<abrotman>The_Ben24: Cheese is one
20:22-!-trendynick [~trendynic@188.26.168.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:22<The_Ben24>Is Cheese for video or just pictures?
20:22<abrotman>Look at the description, you tell us
20:23<oldlaptop>abrotman: more broadly (and so technically newbage1 won't understand), the "modern" MUA/MTA combination thingies (thunderbird, etc)
20:23<oldlaptop>webmail, etc
20:23<jonadab>I have never been able to figure out why anyone ever thought it was a good idea for every (Unix-style) computer to have an MTA installed, let alone running all the time.
20:23<abrotman>oldlaptop: I don't know how you think OE would make it easier to understand ..
20:23<oldlaptop>jonadab: for system messages
20:23<oldlaptop>Some important stuff gets mailed to root
20:23<jonadab>That's what log files are for.
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20:23<The_Ben24>abrotman, "aptitude show cheese" mentions only still frames.
20:24<abrotman>jonadab: Assuming you read log files (or mail for that matter)
20:24<The_Ben24>abrotman, Oops., my bad. Disregard that.
20:24<The_Ben24>abrotman, Thank you so much!
20:24<jonadab>abrotman: Well, yes, whatever system you use, the admin has to actually look at it occasionally, or it's pointless.
20:25<themill>jonadab: logfiles are pretty sucky for anything that's not a single line message
20:25<jonadab>But having an MTA running all the time just to handle that is, to my way of thinking, inexcusable.
20:25<themill>who says you have an MTA running all the time (and so what if it is anyway?)
20:25<jonadab>themill: Messages in a logfile don't have to be a single line. They often are, but that's just a convention.
20:26<themill>and they suck when they're multiline
20:26<jonadab>themill: Debian by default has Exim running all the time, if you don't chmod -x it.
20:26<themill>umm.... that's boneheaded
20:26<jonadab>Yes, yes, it is.
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20:27<abrotman>eh, does cron.log even record when a cron job goes bad?
20:27<themill>the chmod
20:27<abrotman>jonadab: What's the problem with it running? You can't spare the 5MB of RAM?
20:27<themill>jonadab: if you don't want exim running then disable it sanely. Or replace it with something that delivers only on demand.
20:27<abrotman>or alias root to nobody :)
20:28<jonadab>abrotman: Fundamental principle of security: don't run services that aren't needed.
20:28<abrotman>jonadab: you do realize it doesn't listen outside of localhost, right ?
20:28<themill>what's your threat model for an MTA running again?
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20:28<jonadab>abrotman: Yes, that's true, and mitigates the issue somewhat.
20:28<jonadab>There's also the fact that it adds about 40 seconds to system start time, but that's minor.
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20:28<jonadab>I guess I'm just being picky, mostly.
20:29<abrotman>it shuldn't add 40 seconds .. sounds like your system is misconfigured
20:29<jonadab>But there's absolutely no reason for it to be running.
20:29<themill>given that my entire boot takes 4s...
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20:29<jonadab>abrotman: Every Debian system I've ever had, Exim takes a long time at system start. Always.
20:29<abrotman>jonadab: You've done something wrong
20:29<abrotman>well, given this conversation, many things wrong :)
20:29<themill>you could always use something other than exim too.
20:29<jonadab>I haven't *done* anything at all with regard to Exim, to cause that. (When I chmod -x it, that solves the problem.)
20:30<themill>I wouldn't use the word "solve" there
20:30<abrotman>jonadab: Yes, you have done something wrong. I have many systems with exim as the default MTA, none of them are delayed because of Exim
20:30<jonadab>I never configure Exim, because it's a service I neither need nor want. I'd uninstall it, if apt would let me, without uninstalling other things.
20:30<retrospectacus>see <exim boot stall>
20:30<FakeBoost>Hello, I need a LXDE ready, non-pae , no internet connection Wheezy, does anybody have a link to download?
20:30<abrotman>FakeBoost: there's a link on the CD download page
20:30<retrospectacus>FakeBoost: debian.org
20:31<abrotman>retrospectacus: sounds like it's misconfigured, I already said that.
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20:32<jonadab>Not *mis*configured, just *un*configured. I shouldn't need to configure an MTA on a computer that isn't a mail server.
20:32<themill>the time to fix this is about the same as the time to chmod -x and less than the time you've spent complaining about it
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20:33<jonadab>The bot's info for <exim boot stall> suggests the problem is that the network isn't up, but if that's so, it's because something I didn't customize is running startup things in very much the wrong order.
20:33<themill>(I'm rather hoping that systemd journal will be able to replace the mta on most of my machines)
20:33<FakeBoost>debian.org, i already knew that page, I need help finding that specific iso
20:33<jonadab>FakeBoost: The one that doesn't say netinstall, presumably.
20:34<FakeBoost>ok, nothing exact
20:34<themill>FakeBoost: http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/7.5.0/i386/iso-dvd/
20:35<FakeBoost>none of those say non-pae , themill
20:35<FakeBoost>or lxde
20:35<themill>they don't need to
20:35<FakeBoost>are they lxde?
20:36<themill>no, I'm just giving you links to random shit you didn't want....
20:36<themill>dpkg: tell FakeBoost about install lxde
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20:39<jmcnaught>jonadab: instead of your chmod -x trick, you could simply install another package that provides the mail-transport-agent virtual package. For a while I've been using msmtp-mta for machines that aren't mail servers (it's a null mailer) but lately I've been switching to using postfix configured as a nullmailer instead (mstmp-mta doesn't do date headers)
20:41<newbage1>if I have my wireless drivers installed on my new debian install, how do I set up a connection via the command line?
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20:41<retrospectacus>newbage1: https://wiki.debian.org/WiFi/HowToUse#Command_Line
20:42<FakeBoost>themill, I m downloading what you told me, sorry if i was a bit rude.
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20:48<test123123>hello
20:48<retrospectacus>hi, test123123
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20:50<test123123>i would search google for this but I am not sure how to search. I am wanting to limit storage capacity of a certain folder by having it delete oldest files out of the directory once it reaches a certain percentage. is there any easy way of doing this on my debian server?
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20:50<abrotman>percentage?
20:50<jonadab>Basically like a tmp directory?
20:50<abrotman>percentage of what?
20:50<test123123>percentage of said storage capacity for folder
20:51<abrotman>test123123: you mean a percentage of the total partitoin?
20:51<abrotman>or the partition a certain percent full?
20:51<test123123>specific to folder, not partition.
20:51<test123123>i know folders have no limit's i want to add one though
20:52<abrotman>test123123: so you want to delete the oldest files when the directory is a certain percent of the directory?
20:52<retrospectacus>you'd make a script and run it with cron. I don't know of a existing tool to do that
20:52<test123123>or any other way but that's what i'm wanting to do
20:52<jonadab>He wants to delete the oldest files in e.g. /tmp when the contents of /tmp add up to a certain percentage of some absolute limit he wants to place on its size.
20:52<abrotman>sounds pretty specialized .. I'd be writing a script
20:52<test123123>i have a folder that has automated files
20:53<test123123>and i just want to keep it from filling up the hdd
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20:53<jonadab>And yeah, I'd write a Perl script that calls du -h -s /path/to/whatever to check whether it's hitting the limit, and if so deletes the oldest file. Put that on a cron job and Bob is your uncle.
20:54<jonadab>Actually, I might take the -h out of that, to make the parsing regex simpler.
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20:55<retrospectacus>do you want to check if the directory size is above a threshold, or the whole disk usage percent is over a threshold
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20:55<The_Ben24>Trying two different USB cameras, Cheese fails to record, saying that there is an error "playing video from the webcam", though it takes still frames successfully. Any idea what I can do?
20:56<test123123>okay, so I guess I have to learn to script and until then delete files manually
20:56<jonadab>test123123: perl -e ' `du -s /wherever` =~ /(\d+)/; if ($1 < $somelimit) { ... } '
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20:56<jonadab>Something like that. The ... part still needs to be written, to delete the oldest file.
20:56<test123123>limit is in mb? gb?
20:57<jonadab>bytes
20:58<test123123>i will save it as it's half my puzzle. thank you :)
20:59<jonadab>Wait, actually, that should be if ($1 > $somelimit) (greater than, not less than)
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21:12<aXEL>xD
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21:22<test123123>so I found some commands to do the rest but I don't know perl.. is there a way to make the perl script do this ls -t -1 /dir/to/auto/remove/last.item* | tail --lines 1 | xargs rm
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22:00<newbage1>I have a weird question
22:00<newbage1>I have debian installed and can boot it from GRUB just fine
22:00<newbage1>However, to boot Mac OS X, I have to use rEFInd… GRUB will not boot Mac OS X as configured
22:01<newbage1>I want to use what info I can glean from rEFInd to boot Mac OS X
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22:16<donofrio_>my xorg log @ http://paste.debian.net/102124
22:16<donofrio_>any thoughts?
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22:18<zykotick9>newbage1: personally, i rather doubt grub will boot OS X, but maybe... i gotta say, you're certainly persistant in your efforts :)
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22:19<sney>donofrio_: looks ok to me. are you having a problem?
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22:20<donofrio_>two fold, stuck at software rendering when r200 modules loaded into kernel....secondly my menu's are off the screen like 'overscanned'
22:20<donofrio_>hardware rendering need that
22:20<sney>do you have firmware-linux-nonfree installed? radeon is missing features without it
22:21<donofrio_>its installed
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22:21<newbage1>zykotick9: ok, let's ignore grub for a bit and focus on wifi
22:22<sney>donofrio_: and how do you determine that you're stuck at software rendering? glxinfo?
22:22<donofrio_>a few spots....let see
22:22<newbage1>zykotick9: I'm here: https://wiki.debian.org/WiFi/HowToUse#Wicd
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22:23<newbage1>zykotick9: some things I've moved forward on and other things, not so much
22:23<zykotick9>newbage1: sorry, i just had to comments about grub/your effort. sorry, i won't help with apple or ati hardware - good luck.
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22:24<zykotick9>newbage1: remember my comment from several days ago, "next time, buy better hardware" ;)
22:24<donofrio_>yes sney glxinfo | grep render
22:24<newbage1>zykotick9: I appreciate the comment but, I got the 'hard' part done… now I just have to figure out how to make debian connect to a wifi network
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22:25<newbage1>I'm just not sure how to configure a wifi connection from the command line
22:26<donofrio_>iwconfig
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22:27<zykotick9>newbage1: i personally like using wicd-curses for terminal wireless configuration YMMV
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22:30<grok>newbage1: it's a lot easier if you just install xorg, lightdm, xfce, network-manager, network-manager-gnome, and configure wifi from the system tray. just sayin'.
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22:32<donofrio_>sney, any thoughts?
22:32<donofrio_>I'm so close to getting this working just do not know why its not already
22:33<sney>donofrio_: maybe check if the firmware files are being loaded? it should be working. and the radeon 9200 is really old so it's not like you need a newer version
22:34<donofrio_>howto check?
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22:38<donofrio_>sney, dmesg states "agent loaded radeon/R@00_cp.bin into memory"
22:38<donofrio_>R200
22:39<newbage1>grok: ok, I'm looking at network settings from the upper right hand corner and the only options I see are 'wired' and 'network proxy'
22:39<newbage1>grok: if I click the plus sign at the bottom the only option I have to add is a VPN
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22:54<newbage1>upon ifup wlan0, debian returns "interface wlan0 already configured
22:54<newbage1>"
22:55<jmcnaught>newbage1: ifdown takes it down
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22:56<jmcnaught>newbage1: if you're trying to use Network Manager (the networking icon in the top-bar in gnome), Network Manager ignores any interface that is defined in /etc/network/interfaces
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23:01<newbage1>if I just configured a new wireless device from network tools, how do I get that to connect?
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23:02-!-Saxman is now known as Guest11821
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23:06<somiaj>newbage1: what do you mean by network tools? Is this some gui frontend to network-manager?
23:06<somiaj>newbage1: also sounds like you finally got the boot flags correct?
23:06<newbage1>somiaj: way past boot flags
23:06-!-gjerich [~quassel@BSN-143-121-20.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has quit []
23:06<newbage1>somiaj: with 1 minor exception that I'm not going to worry about until way later
23:07<somiaj>newbage1: so do you use network-manager or /etc/network/interfaces -- you have to use one or the other, not both
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23:08<newbage1>somiaj: let's go with /etc/network/interfaces for now
23:08<newbage1>somiaj: I've done all the comman line steps here: https://wiki.debian.org/WiFi/HowToUse#Wicd
23:08<somiaj>newbage1: what desktop did you install?
23:08<newbage1>gnome
23:08<newbage1>but this is on another machine
23:08<somiaj>newbage1: oh you awnt to use wicd (which is another version of network manager). Lets just get network manager working for you (or would you prefer wicd -- nm is default in gnome)
23:09-!-Airwave [~Airwave@0001a5d2.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:09<newbage1>somiaj: for simplicity, let's stick with the command line for now
23:09<somiaj>newbage1: but what I suggest doing is looking in /etc/network/interfaces and if you have any lines that relate to your network devices (besides say lo) comment them out
23:09<newbage1>(I'm actually configuring 2 machines)
23:09<somiaj>newbage1: cli is a bit more complicated than just allowing the gui to configure it
23:10<newbage1>somiaj: so, that guide is deceptively oversimplistic?
23:10<newbage1>…becuase it hasn't worked yet
23:10<newbage1>…that guide
23:11<somiaj>newbage1: what you linked was to use wicd. You need to pick a method and stick with it, I'd suggest network-manager since it is the default in gnome
23:11-!-gjerich [~quassel@BSN-143-121-20.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has quit []
23:11<somiaj>and it links with the gnome tools to configure it
23:12<somiaj>it could be you have both network-manager and wicd running and you don't want two programs manging the same interface
23:12<newbage1>somiaj: I'm configuring 2 machines. One has gnome. The other has the cli. If I can do the cli, I can configure both machines...
23:12<newbage1>I'll take help however I can get it though
23:13<somiaj>newbage1: https://wiki.debian.org/WiFi/HowToUse#Command_Line
23:13<somiaj>then follow the instructions for using it from teh cli, and disable network manager
23:14<somiaj>newbage1: also the wireless-essid and wirelss-mode is for wep, most likey (and you should be) using WPA, in that case you want to use 'wpa-ssid' and 'wpa-psk' for the ssid and the password for the wireless network
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23:15<somiaj>newbage1: if you want you can put a copy of your /etc/network/interfaces file at paste.debian.net (don't copy the essid/password if you don't want to just put 'blank' or something there so you aren't sharing that info on the net
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23:17<newbage1>somiaj: perfect, what's the command to upload to paste.debian.net ?
23:18-!-DemonJester [~DemonJest@000131d2.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
23:18<somiaj>!pastebinit
23:18<dpkg>pastebinit is a command-line tool to send data to a <pastebin>. NOTE: Debian 6.0 "Squeeze" users, you must "pastebinit -b http://paste.debian.net" or configure pastebinit to use something other than pastebin.com. To paste e.g. your sources.list do "aptitude install pastebinit; pastebinit /etc/apt/sources.list"; to paste the output of a program do e.g. "dmesg | pastebinit". See also <pastebinit config>, <nopaste>.
23:19<newbage1>somiaj: also, iwlist scan returns the local wifi networks… so my radio si working
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23:19<somiaj>newbage1: yea I need to do two things 1) make sure your config file doesn't have any noticable errors, 2) disable network-manager and/or wicd
23:20<jmcnaught>network-manager ignores interfaces defined in /etc/network/interfaces, not sure about wicd though
23:21<somiaj>yea but that is only if it starts and if it is running and think it should configure it, I find it best to just disable it
23:21-!-damian_ [~damian@cpe-70-116-43-201.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:22<somiaj>just one less thing that could get in the way (:
23:22<newbage1>"sudo pastebinit /etc/networks/interfaces" returns "unable to read from: /etc/networks/interfaces"
23:23<zykotick9>/etc/network/interfaces no s on network (not networks)
23:23-!-damian_ [~damian@cpe-70-116-43-201.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #debian
23:23<somiaj>also that will upload any passwords you have, might want to be sure you are okay wit that
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23:24<newbage1>yeah, not worried
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23:24<newbage1>somiaj: http://pastebin.com/DXtEs90n
23:26<somiaj>newbage1: I would remove wireless mode, it is wpa-essid (not wpa-1), and you don't put the info in brackets so it is just homenetwork not [homenetwork]
23:26<somiaj>sorry wpa-ssid (not essid)
23:27<retrospectacus>newbage1: https://wiki.debian.org/WiFi/HowToUse#Command_Line
23:27<retrospectacus>also you should have a loopback, where did it go?
23:27<somiaj>you should also add an 'auto lo' and 'iface lo inet loopback' lines because if you aren't going to use network-manager you will need to bring up your loopback device
23:27-!-ShangZhihao [~shang@2001:da8:c000:108:baca:3aff:fe73:1d05] has left #debian [Leaving]
23:27<jlund>Is anyone else experiencing problems with the Debian 7 AWS images? I just started a new server using the latest 7.5 AMI and it's hanging on apt-get update.
23:28<newbage1>somiaj: where do I add those?
23:28<somiaj>newbage1: just as lines either near the top or end of that same interface file
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23:29<somiaj>jlund: where is it hanging, double check the /etc/apt/sources.list or network settings, if it is a problem with the actual image, I'd contanct the creator
23:29<jlund>somiaj, It definitely appears to be a problem with the image. This is the official Debian AMI. It hangs at 'Connecting to cloudfront.debian.net...'
23:30<jlund>Or a problem with the Cloudfront endpoint it is trying to hit.
23:30<newbage1>somiaj: ok, I've added those… while I pastebin one more time for confirmation, what should I do next
23:30<somiaj>I'd change the sources.list and as far as I know debian isn't creating those images.
23:30<newbage1>?
23:30-!-blumoon [~kvirc@199-193-117-92.static.hvvc.us] has joined #debian
23:30<somiaj>newbage1: lets get your config file fixed first, then lets disable/stop network manager an the likes
23:31-!-Zachary_DuBois is now known as Zachary_DuBois|A
23:31<jlund>somiaj, AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJHYK3XGNVRAUQMPA
23:31<jlund>AWSSecretKey=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
23:31<jlund>LULZ
23:31<somiaj>jlund: oh
23:32<jlund>somiaj, Already deleted.
23:32-!-mpfusion__ [~mpfusion@89.166.253.252] has joined #debian
23:32<jlund>somiaj, Here's what I was actually trying to send: https://aws.amazon.com/marketplace/seller-profile/ref=dtl_pcp_sold_by?ie=UTF8&id=890be55d-32d8-4bc8-9042-2b4fd83064d5
23:32-!-Airwave [~Airwave@0001a5d2.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
23:33<somiaj>jlund: hmm, well then wonder if there is a mailing list for the matainers of those images.
23:33<newbage1>http://pastebin.com/Rq43gzBj
23:33<newbage1>better?
23:34<jlund>somiaj, I like your idea. Can you paste me what the default sources.list for a fresh 7.5 install looks like?
23:34<somiaj>!tell jlund about wheezy sources.list
23:35<somiaj>newbage1: okay lets disable network manager, 'dpkg -l | grep "network-manager|wicd"'
23:35-!-_0bitcount [~big-byte@213.37.172.228.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
23:35<newbage1>how do I type a vertical bar?
23:35<somiaj>arg, I forget the or option for grep, tha tline woudln't work
23:36<somiaj>shift \ key
23:36<somiaj>just do grep network-manager (then repeate the line with wicd) see if you have either of those isntalled
23:36<jlund>somiaj, Thanks!
23:37<somiaj>ahh it is: dpkg -l | grep 'network-manager\|wicd'
23:37<newbage1>grep network-manager just returned a blinking cursor
23:37<somiaj>if it returned nothing, then you don't have it installed
23:38<newbage1>well, now I don't even have my username@hostname in the command line
23:38<newbage1>just a blinking curso
23:38<newbage1>hmmm
23:38<retrospectacus>press Ctrl-d
23:38<somiaj>hit ctrl-D, you probabaly missed an end quote or something liek that
23:38<retrospectacus>you didn't give grep any file or data so it's reading Stdin
23:38<newbage1>what's ctrl+d do precisely?
23:38<newbage1>stdin is what?
23:39<retrospectacus>ctrl-d sends "end of input"
23:39-!-mpfusion_ [~mpfusion@xdsl-188-118-143-23.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:39<retrospectacus>(it will also log you off if you hit it on the terminal)
23:39<retrospectacus>stdin is the standard input stream
23:40<retrospectacus>your keypresses
23:40<newbage1>retrospectacus: welcome back
23:40<retrospectacus>grep takes its input from the pipe (|) (program on the left) (dpkg -l) in the examples we are trying to get you to run
23:41<retrospectacus>thanks
23:41<newbage1>somiaj: dpkg run successfully
23:41<retrospectacus>don't worry about stdin for now :P
23:41-!-pwr__ [~pwr@84.232.198.108] has joined #debian
23:41<retrospectacus>newbage1: you should be able to get your wireless going with the wiki instruction I've sent you twice
23:41<newbage1>retrospectacus: not worrying initiated
23:42<somiaj>newbage1: so you have neither network-manager or wicd isntalled? if so just run 'ifup wlan0'
23:42<newbage1>retrospectacus: I'm a baby I tried but no dice
23:42<retrospectacus>newbage1: the interfeaces file I saw was not very close to the example on the wiki
23:43<newbage1>retrospectacus: I have absolutely no programming experience but I'm smart and learn fast
23:43<newbage1>somiaj: wlan0 already configured
23:44<somiaj>newbage1: ifdown wlan0 && ifup wlan0
23:45<retrospectacus>newbage1: if that doesn't work show us your interfaces file again
23:45<newbage1>somiaj: I have an IP address
23:46*retrospectacus goes back to the couch
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23:48<newbage1>somiaj: how do I stop it from pinging indefintely
23:48<newbage1>I assumed there was a default limit
23:48<somiaj>newbage1: ctrl-C nope, just kill the process
23:48<newbage1>lovely
23:48<newbage1>learning so much
23:49<newbage1>somiaj: ok, if I'm connected to my AP, why can't I ping anything beyond it?
23:50<somiaj>newbage1: do you not have a decent nameserver setup in /etc/resolv.conf?
23:51-!-junkmechanic_ [~junkmecha@nusnet-228-5.dynip.nus.edu.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:51<somiaj>have you tried to ping an ip address outside your lan, or just domain names?
23:51<newbage1>I can ping the AP but pinging my modem returns nothing
23:51<somiaj>you can also try ping 8.8.8.8
23:54<jlund>somiaj: FYI the problems I was having were caused by a bad egress policy in one of my security groups that was preventing outbound traffic. Silly.
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23:55<cyberhayes22>hello everyone.
23:56-!-cyberhayes22 [~cyberhaye@70-128-151-71.lightspeed.snantx.sbcglobal.net] has quit []
23:56<newbage1>somiaj: network is unreachable
23:57-!-gjerich [~quassel@BSN-143-121-20.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
23:58-!-gjerich [~quassel@BSN-143-121-20.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has joined #debian
23:59<victory>traceroute 8.8.8.8
23:59<newbage1>somiaj: network is unreachable
23:59<newbage1>or, rather, victory: network is unreachable
---Logclosed Wed May 28 00:00:08 2014