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#debian IRC Logs for 2014-07-11

---Logopened Fri Jul 11 00:00:09 2014
---Daychanged Fri Jul 11 2014
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00:31<wvdakker>Hi, since a few days I have a hugh load on a production server (load avg 42). htop and top doesnt show any high CPU eating processes.
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00:31<wvdakker>I have downgraded to kernel 3.2.57 because ,60 locked up the server
00:32<wvdakker>any ideas how to tackle this?
00:33<ncl>wvdakker: high load average can also be caused by high disk usage
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00:34<twb>wvdakker: what did you try to isolate the fault?
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00:35<wvdakker>ncl: yes I look at the kern.log and see kerneltraceback and first is a do_get_write_access
00:35<wvdakker>twb: I have stopped processes to see if the load droppes
00:37<wvdakker>*drops
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00:51<wvdakker>hmmm currently locked out of the server. It is nonresponsive. Have to wait for a reboot :(
00:54<twb>time to set up ulimits
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00:55<wvdakker>twb: good pointer.
00:57<vrishab>Hi .. I'm using debian sid amd64 .. how do I check .. if the installed .deb package on the system are same .. or different ?
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00:58<vrishab>Hi .. I'm using debian sid amd64 .. how do I check .. if the installed .deb package on the system are same .. and the one in the repo ... are same / different ?
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01:03<jm_>vrishab: the same in which terms?
01:03<vrishab>file checksumwise ...
01:04<vrishab>background: ...
01:04<vrishab>I built a package from "apt-get source pkgname" followed by "debuild"
01:04<vrishab>Now I removed the original pkgname from repo
01:05<vrishab>Installed the newly created .deb files of pkgname .. Now I get a segfault ... So, I want to know if there is any difference b/w the files in pkgname from repo and the one I built manually ..
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01:06<vrishab>before I file a bug ..
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01:06<jm_>compare md5sum-s found in the original package
01:07<jm_>plus, questions about sid should be asked in #debian-next, see the topic
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01:08<vrishab>jm_, I'm asking it here .. since I think this is not sid specific .. just a general apt related qtn ..
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01:09<vrishab>I'm aware of md5sum ... just wanted to know if there is a apt command to figure it out rather than manually doing the checksum stuff .. I vaguely remember some command being used for rpm package manager ...
01:09<jm_>vrishab: it doesn't matter, you are using sid so please ask there as all other parts are related to it (apt-get, versions, debuild ...)
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01:33<vrishab>apt-get install debsums
01:33<vrishab>debsums - check the MD5 sums of installed Debian packages
01:33<jm_>that uses md5sum-s from the installed packages as they are part of the package itself ...
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01:47<wvdakker>ok.. got my server back.... installed sysstat
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01:58<vrishab>debsums --generate=all /var/cache/apt/archives/rhythmbox_3.0.3-1+b1_amd64.deb rhythmbox
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02:27<deepin>有人吗
02:27<jm_>!cn
02:27<dpkg>如果您想要得到中文的協助,請加入伺服器上的 #debian-zh (irc.oftc.net) 頻道,加入方法為在輸入框中輸入 "/server irc.oftc.net" 和 "/join #debian-zh" (不要加引號),謝謝您的合作!
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02:55<qimo>who's here
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02:56<helmut_>hi
02:56<somiaj>many people, standard etiquette is to just ask your question if you have one
02:56<somiaj>qimo: ^^
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02:57<qimo>nice to meet you
02:57<qimo>smoiaj
02:58<somiaj>qimo: this is not a socal room, please go to #debian-offtopic or other channels for social talking
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03:06<twb>I stared at "socal" for a bit before realizing it was a typo, not some slur on southern californian loquacity.
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03:08<somiaj>yea this time of night I'm very prone to typos, though I usually have them, I should put some sort of spell checker in my client, but kinda enjoy my typos/mispellings
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03:23<elcot>how to download this os?
03:24<elcot>#debian
03:24<jm_>which os?
03:25<babilen>Debian presumably :)
03:25<jm_>!get debian
03:25<dpkg>To get Debian, see http://www.debian.org/distrib/
03:25<babilen>dpkg: tell elcot -about install debian
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03:31-!-JBek [~JBek@viadeo-gw1.ter1.th1.par.cust.as8218.eu] has joined #debian
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03:34-!-Lingo [~Lingo@219.233.186.234] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
03:34-!-trapier2 [~trapier@207.47.25.82.static.nextweb.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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03:34-!-darokthar [~darokthar@p54BB9EE3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #debian
03:34-!-SamB is now known as Guest2184
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03:35-!-qinbo is now known as qboster
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03:37-!-mode/#debian [+l 662] by debhelper
03:37-!-trifolio6 [~h@34.140.100.84.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
03:39-!-ak0 [~smuxi@162.248.5.83] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
03:40-!-Guest2184 [SamB@207-172-123-137.c3-0.upd-ubr1.trpr-upd.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:40-!-jaysonr_work [~jaysonr_w@165.166.50.69] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
03:41-!-jaysonr_work [~jaysonr_w@165.166.50.69] has joined #debian
03:43-!-oneveu [~Thunderbi@lpgpb59.lpgp.u-psud.fr] has joined #debian
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03:44-!-amphi_ [~amphi@89.140.132.169.static.user.ono.com] has joined #debian
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03:51-!-amphi [~amphi@79.98.219.45.ibreddigital.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:52-!-shane [~smuxi@093-097-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has joined #debian
03:53-!-shane is now known as Guest2186
03:53-!-pwr [~pwr@84.232.198.13] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
03:54-!-pwr [~pwr@84.232.198.13] has joined #debian
03:55-!-jaysonr_work [~jaysonr_w@rrcs-70-61-219-69.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #debian
03:55-!-debalance [~debalance@00017b9a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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04:00-!-InvadeD [~GeNocYdE_@S0106001b21a32b6d.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
04:00-!-jipege [~jipege@15.21.90.92.rev.sfr.net] has left #debian []
04:00-!-bgg [~bgg@bgd76-1-82-233-212-182.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
04:01-!-althaser [~gnu@81.193.50.210] has joined #debian
04:01-!-althaser is now known as Guest2188
04:03-!-tarzeau [~gurkan@mail.aiei.ch] has joined #debian
04:03<tarzeau>!testing
04:03<dpkg>Testing is a continuously updated release between <stable> and <unstable>, currently codenamed <jessie>. See http://wiki.debian.org/DebianTesting and ask me about <testing faq> <wheezy->jessie> <testing security> <moving target> <dda> <apt-listchanges> <apt-listbugs> and <bts>. You should have a sound knowledge of Debian packaging and be prepared for a bumpy ride at times. Don't use it on things that are critical or on servers.
04:03<tarzeau>!sid
04:03<dpkg>sid is probably the codename for <unstable>, named after the kid in Toy Story that breaks toys. The great thing about running sid is that, when it breaks you get to keep ALL the pieces!!
04:03-!-trapier2 [~trapier@207.47.25.82.static.nextweb.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:04-!-q66 [~q66@host86-175-78-240.range86-175.btcentralplus.com] has joined #debian
04:04-!-JetonArifi [~JetonArif@cp23-80.tu-graz.ac.at] has joined #debian
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04:04-!-darkbasic [~quassel@niko.linuxsystems.it] has joined #debian
04:04<babilen>dpkg: tell tarzeau -about msg the bot
04:05-!-kilian_ [~kilian@neu67-3-82-239-81-116.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #debian
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04:17-!-NIN [~NIN@n900.quitesimple.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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04:17-!-EmleyMoor [phil@00014da8.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Reboot needed]
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04:19-!-jaysonr_work [~jaysonr_w@rrcs-70-61-219-69.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #debian
04:19-!-marsboer [~weechat@146.80.164.82.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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04:32-!-matias [~matias@pc-184-26-100-190.cm.vtr.net] has joined #debian
04:33-!-matias [~matias@pc-184-26-100-190.cm.vtr.net] has quit []
04:34-!-Evankhell [~Evankhell@107-196-229-146.lightspeed.bkfdca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Evankhell]
04:35-!-vrishab [~vrishab@122.178.199.121] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
04:38-!-Skwallinux92 [~Skwallinu@213.218.130.173] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
04:40-!-Evankhell [~Evankhell@107-196-229-146.lightspeed.bkfdca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #debian
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04:45-!-Volley [~worf@simpsons.cgv.tu-graz.ac.at] has joined #debian
04:45-!-jalalsfs [~jalal@0001afc5.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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04:47-!-dwi [~smuxi@112.215.63.245] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
04:48-!-mephisto [~quassel@164.40.195.250] has joined #debian
04:48-!-jaysonr_work [~jaysonr_w@rrcs-70-61-219-69.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #debian
04:49-!-ScottE [~ScottE@0001c701.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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04:54-!-ScottE [~ScottE@0001c701.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
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04:55-!-jaysonr_work [~jaysonr_w@rrcs-70-61-219-69.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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04:57-!-Nikno [~Nikno@p3E9D4110.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #debian
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05:01-!-pwr [~pwr@84.232.198.13] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
05:02-!-zerick [~eocrospom@190.187.21.53] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
05:03-!-darkbasic_ [~quassel@host37-245-static.119-2-b.business.telecomitalia.it] has joined #debian
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05:04-!-sadrak|work [~ostmann@p57B720FC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #debian
05:04-!-alegen [~alegen_of@li678-183.members.linode.com] has joined #debian
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05:06-!-jaysonr_work [~jaysonr_w@165.166.50.69] has joined #debian
05:06-!-gandalf_ [~gandalf@host60-178-dynamic.0-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #debian
05:06-!-oneveu [~Thunderbi@lpgpb59.lpgp.u-psud.fr] has joined #debian
05:07-!-jalalsfs [~jalal@0001afc5.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
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05:08-!-kjo [~kjo@c-76-19-65-80.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #debian
05:08-!-locutus_ [~Gianfranc@93.48.236.233] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
05:09-!-freedomrun [~freedomru@BSN-61-30-188.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has quit [Quit: So long and thanks for all the fish.]
05:10-!-dwi [~smuxi@112.215.63.112] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
05:10-!-oneveu [~Thunderbi@lpgpb59.lpgp.u-psud.fr] has quit []
05:10-!-jaysonr_work [~jaysonr_w@rrcs-70-61-219-69.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #debian
05:11-!-gandalf_ [~gandalf@host60-178-dynamic.0-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving...]
05:12-!-marsboer [~weechat@146.80.164.82.customer.cdi.no] has joined #debian
05:13-!-dwi [~smuxi@112.215.64.53] has joined #debian
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05:21-!-NomadJim [~NomadJim@dpc6744160101.direcpc.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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05:24-!-kjo [~kjo@c-76-19-65-80.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de]
05:24-!-jaysonr_work [~jaysonr_w@rrcs-70-61-219-69.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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05:24-!-jaysonr_work [~jaysonr_w@165.166.50.69] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
05:24-!-jaysonr_work is "(unknown)" on (unknown)
05:24-!-gandalf_ [~gandalf@host60-178-dynamic.0-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #debian
05:26-!-kjo [~kjo@c-76-19-65-80.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #debian
05:26-!-FlowRiser [~FlowRiser@5-14-11-56.residential.rdsnet.ro] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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05:29-!-Noskcaj [~Noskcaj@CPE-124-183-96-67.lns14.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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05:31-!-maxb [~maxb@jabberwock.vm.bytemark.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
05:31-!-helmut_ [~helmut@chello084113024169.5.12.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
05:32-!-caravel [~caravel@83.230.147.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
05:32-!-Netsplit magnet.oftc.net <-> resistance.oftc.net quits: merosovrana, Chex, kimpalajn, boozaa, jumbers, cooldude, @debhelper, badiane1, th0rn, ftc-, (+277 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them)
05:33-!-olspookishmagus [~pookie@snf-137798.vm.okeanos.grnet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
05:33-!-Volley [~worf@simpsons.cgv.tu-graz.ac.at] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
05:34-!-pookie [~pookie@snf-137798.vm.okeanos.grnet.gr] has joined #debian
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05:34-!-Netsplit over, joins: gandalf_
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05:34-!-Netsplit over, joins: _tmp_, kjo, NomadJim, NIN, zerick, darkbasic_, ScottE, Evankhell, trifolio6, SamB (+100 more)
05:34-!-Netsplit over, joins: brambles, JStoker, mac-mini, ivan`, gmarselis, Guest119, jalcine, magyar, Debianer, ikanobori (+165 more)
05:35-!-grobda24 [~grobda24-@host81-152-5-234.range81-152.btcentralplus.com] has joined #debian
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05:37-!-mode/#debian [+l 668] by debhelper
05:37-!-maxb_ is now known as Guest2195
05:39-!-dwi [~smuxi@112.215.64.53] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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05:42-!-gandalf_ [~gandalf@host60-178-dynamic.0-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving...]
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05:47-!-mode/#debian [+l 659] by debhelper
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05:56-!-LocutusOfBorg1 [~Gianfranc@93.48.236.233] has joined #debian
05:59-!-Guest2195 is now known as maxb
05:59-!-JetonArifi [~JetonArif@cp23-80.tu-graz.ac.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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06:00-!-Evankhell [~Evankhell@107-196-229-146.lightspeed.bkfdca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Evankhell]
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06:05-!-derek_ [~quassel@host86-132-204-148.range86-132.btcentralplus.com] has joined #debian
06:06-!-micro [~mr.worlwi@180.74.126.3] has joined #debian
06:06-!-micro is now known as Guest2198
06:06<Guest2198>hai there
06:07-!-rubs [~ruben@193.51.120.67] has joined #debian
06:07-!-vrishab [~vrishab@122.178.199.121] has joined #debian
06:08-!-yogiman [~quassel@host217-41-4-51.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #debian
06:09<Guest2198>i want to learn hacking..?anyone can teach me..?
06:10-!-dselect [~dselect@dselect.bot.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: ouch... that hurt]
06:10-!-shirish [~quassel@0001358e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
06:11-!-mythos [~mythos@213.47.190.195] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
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06:12<Guest2198>anyone can help me..?
06:12<SynrGy>Guest2198: it's off-topic for this channel. but assuming you mean 'hacking' and not 'cracking': http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html
06:15-!-bullgard4 [~chatzilla@dslb-188-102-040-176.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:15<Guest2198>hmmm..thanks
06:17-!-NIN [~NIN@n900.quitesimple.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
06:17-!-NIN [~NIN@n900.quitesimple.org] has joined #debian
06:17<Guest2198>and how to hack facebook..?
06:18-!-mephisto [~quassel@164.40.195.250] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
06:18-!-mephisto [~quassel@164.40.195.250] has joined #debian
06:19-!-zykotic10 [~zykotick9@206-47-13-1.dsl.ncf.ca] has joined #debian
06:19<SynrGy>Guest2198: that's cracking. get a life
06:19-!-mode/#debian [+o SynrGy] by ChanServ
06:19-!-mode/#debian [+q *!*@180.74.126.3] by SynrGy
06:19<warhead>:-)
06:19-!-mode/#debian [-o SynrGy] by SynrGy
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06:29-!-mode/#debian [+o SynrGy] by ChanServ
06:29-!-mode/#debian [-q *!*@180.74.126.3] by SynrGy
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06:57<spippi>hi at all
06:57<spippi>i have change my hdd
06:57<spippi>now i have a ssd disk
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07:00<gurka>spippi: gratz
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07:02<spippi>please can you help me? there is a procedure for optimization debian wheezy with ssd?
07:02<spippi>reduce read and write for example or other? i don't create a swap partition
07:02<spippi>thanks at all
07:03<spippi>gratz?
07:03<jm_>you mostly don't need to do anything, you might not want to use cfg io scheduler with ssd, but other than that you really should not need any changes
07:04<gurka>spippi: congratulations, to your upgrade drive =)
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07:07<gurka>Yeah, there is tons of guides and tutorials with stuff you can do and customize when using a ssd.. but I think most of the stuff is unnecessary
07:07<spippi>ok but i read for example to update kernel from 3.2(wheezy stable) to a 3.9 that
07:07<gurka>I didn't do any changes at all - I even have swap on my ssd..
07:08<gurka>I think (?) it's needed for hibernation
07:09<spippi>have a cache ssd
07:09<spippi>what do you think?
07:09<spippi>thank you at all for your help
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07:11<jm_>if you're worried about write endurance it's better to not use the whole drive
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07:13<spippi>ok but for example disactivate journaling for file btfs it's good or not?
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07:13<jm_>I don't know about btrfs but I fail to see the point inusing a journaling fs and then disabling its journal
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07:34<devil_>jm_: only makes sense on usb-sticks and other flash-based gadgets
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07:36<jm_>devil_: what does?
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07:36<devil_>not using a journal
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07:36<jm_>right
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08:17<kovalski>hello
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08:42<Geek2B>Hey guys... i dont know why or how it happen but i dont have the right to change and set date and time
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08:43<Geek2B>any id how i can give myself the previlege of setting the clock
08:43<Geek2B>idea*
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08:49<SynrGy>Geek2B: run ntp and you won't need to worry about it
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08:49<vinicios>\?
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08:49<Geek2B>SynrG, that pretty much the problem because i cant set the ntp serveur
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08:50<SynrGy>Geek2B: describe the problem, then
08:50<Geek2B>when i open the date and time option from setting panel the bouton ok and the button apply is lock.
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08:51<SynrGy>no, the ntp problem.
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08:51<SynrGy>why can't you set up the ntp server?
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08:52<Geek2B>i guess i could do that in root console. but why not just give my user the permission to edit the date and time<
08:52<SynrGy>did you click to unlock?
08:53<SynrGy>users shouldn't change the date and time. that has far-reaching system consequences.
08:53<SynrGy>but if you're an admin, you can
08:53<Geek2B>ok so it no bug
08:53<SynrGy>gnome provides a lock icon which, if you click, will prompt for administrator password (root if set up to use su, or your own password if set up with sudo)
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08:54<Geek2B>well when i click there no prompt
08:54<Geek2B>just a erreor
08:54<SynrGy>what's the error?
08:54<vinicios>\connect irc://irc.freenode.net:6667/
08:54<vinicios>ooops
08:54<Geek2B>give me sec
08:54<vinicios>\quit
08:54*SynrGy throws vinicios a box of /
08:54<vinicios>rs
08:54<vinicios>lol
08:55<Geek2B>unable to authenticate/execute the action 4
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08:55<Geek2B>could it be because i run KDE
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08:55<SynrGy>Geek2B: how are you set up to login to gnome?
08:56<SynrGy>right
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08:56<SynrGy>sounds like something in the setup of your desktop session is messed up
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08:57<SynrGy>it ought to be communicating properly with polkit to allow you to escalate privs
08:57<SynrGy>this is more serious than just not being able to set date/time
08:57<SynrGy>but in any case, you ought to set up ntp instead of trying to manually adjust date/time
08:57<SynrGy>do you use kdm to login?
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08:58<Geek2B>gdm3
08:58<SynrGy>if you're using KDE, why not kdm?
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08:58<SynrGy>Geek2B: and this is on debian wheezy, or something else?
08:59<Geek2B>debian wheezy
09:00<Geek2B>the thing im really new to linux and when i look up on web to choose between kdm and gdm3 people was saying to go with gdm3 anyway
09:00<Geek2B>can i change that now ?
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09:03<Geek2B>ok i dit it let me reboot <
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09:06<Geek2B>well that didnt fix the prob
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09:30<Geek2B>SynrG, well i still dont know what going with the error but at least you fixed the main problem.
09:30<Geek2B>thx
09:31<SynrGy>ok. the main problem was ntp not running?
09:31<SynrGy>but you still get an error when trying to authenticate?
09:31<SynrGy>when you installed kde, how did you install it?
09:31<SynrGy>!install kde
09:31<dpkg>The 'kde-standard' package gets you the common set-up, 'kde-plasma-desktop' and 'kde-plasma-netbook' provide minimal KDE 4 setups with respective flavouring, and 'kde-full' installs everything KDE 4. To install using Debian-Installer (if not using KDE CD-1): from the Installer boot menu, select "Advanced options > Alternative desktop environments > KDE > Install".
09:35<Geek2B>i installed it by using aptitude and i choosed to download kde-plasma-desktop
09:35<SynrGy>sounds about right
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09:36<SynrGy>so you switched to kdm but it didn't solve it? i wonder if the gnome session is taking over whereas it should be starting the kde one ...
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09:37<SynrGy>update-alternatives --display x-session-manager
09:37<Geek2B>and i found web that people with same problem did edit a conf file to make allowrootlogin=true
09:37<SynrGy>Geek2B: put the results of that command at paste.debian.net please
09:37<Geek2B>i did that and nothing
09:37<Geek2B>ok give me a sec
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09:39<Geek2B>http://paste.debian.net/109200/
09:40<Geek2B>the last thing is frecnh and it say "the best version is"
09:40<Geek2B>french*
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09:41<Geek2B>so it like gnome want to take over?
09:41<SynrGy>sec
09:41<Geek2B>no problem
09:42<SynrGy>LANG=C update-alternatives --display x-session-manager
09:42<Nikno>!smarty
09:42<Nikno>I thought it knows everything.
09:43<SynrGy>it may be that x-session-manager is running gnome-session instead of startkde, i don't know ...
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09:43<SynrGy>Geek2B: ps auxw
09:44<Geek2B>can i just purge gnome?
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09:44<Geek2B>im not a big fan of it anyway
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09:44<SynrGy>well, it would be nice to understand the problem before we resort to that
09:44<SynrGy>in theory, kde & gnome should be able to coexist.
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09:46<Geek2B>did you want to result in english of the command you ask me
09:46<SynrGy>er, yeah, LANG=C each time to get english
09:46<zxq9>SynrGy: kde and gnome do coexist without any issue.
09:47<SynrGy>zxq9: got any clues about why the auth issues then? to recap: clicking to unlock setting the date/time doesn't bring up authentication dialog
09:47<zxq9>SynrGy: You can muck things up with bad gdm/kdm/xdm settings, of course, but there is no fundamental incompatibility between the two both being available (alongside 10 other WMs, for that matter)
09:47<SynrGy>instead, it results in the error Geek2B reported earlier
09:48<SynrGy>so my first guess was something wrong at the polkit layer or so
09:48<Geek2B>http://paste.debian.net/109202/
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09:49<SynrGy>Geek2B: ok. so gnome does take priority over startkde here, but i have no idea whether the session startup scripts would just call 'x-display-manager' or would instead directly call startkde, so that doesn't prove anything. the 'ps auxw' might show if there's a mix of gnomeish/kdeish components running as a part of your session, though.
09:50<zxq9>What is your session/login/auth manager? gdm?
09:50-!-trifolio6 [~h@151.216.19.74] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
09:50<SynrGy>it was
09:50<SynrGy>but he changed to kdm
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09:50<SynrGy>the problems started in gdm3 + kde ...
09:51<SynrGy>could that have caused some lasting issues in per-user configs that persist now, even after the switch?
09:51<zxq9>Hrm... well, anyway, the login manager is incidental -- it doesn't matter which one you use, but either has to be configured to pass control to the other.
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09:52<zxq9>It shouldn't have anything to do with the per-user session, it is probably more like kdm doesn't have permission to start an x session and setuid on it or something.
09:52<zxq9>Honestly, the Arch and Gentoo wikis are the easiest places to find out about the details of *dm settings and failures.
09:53<Geek2B>you want the ps aux result?
09:53<zxq9>In any case, if gdm worked before, I would have stuck with that and just added kdm as an additional wm.
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09:53<SynrGy>Geek2B: i would like to see, yes.
09:53<SynrGy>Geek2B: even though the information from zxq9 makes me think it's less important to see now
09:54<zxq9>More is always better, but I'm not sure that would tell us anything useful.
09:54<zxq9>The X.org.#.log (or whatever its called in /var/log) might tell you more.
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09:54<zxq9>Failure to pass control should be detailed somewhere in there. There will (invariably) be a lot of warnings in there also, so read carefully.
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09:54<Geek2B>http://paste.debian.net/109205/
09:55<zxq9>Anyway, the system logs (/var/log/messages, /var/log/X.org.[something], apparmor/SELinux, PAM, etc.) logs are more likely to tell the story of what failed.
09:56<SynrGy>Geek2B: that all looks like a normal kde session to me.
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09:56<SynrGy>the only gnomeish stuff is the gvfs
09:56<SynrGy>does kde use that?
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09:57<SynrGy>i see you use google chrome instead of chromium:
09:57<SynrGy>,v chromium
09:57<judd>Package: chromium on i386 -- squeeze: 0.9.14.1-2; wheezy: 34.0.1847.116-1~deb7u1; wheezy-proposed-updates: 35.0.1916.153-1~deb7u1; wheezy-security: 35.0.1916.153-1~deb7u1; jessie: 35.0.1916.153-2; sid: 35.0.1916.153-2; experimental: 36.0.1985.98-1
09:57<SynrGy>since wheezy has a relatively recent chromium, not sure why you'd want chrome instead.
09:57<zxq9>kde doesn't use gvfs directly.
09:57<SynrGy>maybe chrome dragging in gnome integration?
09:58<Geek2B>well because i didnt know there was other
09:58-!-mentor [~mentor@00010c5b.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:58<Geek2B>hehe
09:58<zxq9>Maybe. I can't stand chrome, mostly for its baggage (community and code tentacles), so I've not kept up with it.
09:58<SynrGy>seems unlikely, given the much lower pid#s
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09:59<SynrGy>looks like tracker-miner is responsible
10:01<SynrGy>i guess something got its hooks into autostart and has no exclusion for when in KDE
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10:02<Geek2B>ok
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10:03<SynrGy>see /etc/xdg/autostart/tracker-miner-fs.desktop
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10:03<SynrGy>Geek2B: i don't think this is causing problems for you, but may be something you don't really care to have running
10:04<Geek2B>delete that line "X-GNOME-Autostart-enabled=true" ?
10:04<zxq9>Is gdm still installed?
10:04<Geek2B>zxq9 i guess
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10:04<Geek2B>i didnt uninstall it
10:05<SynrGy>Geek2B: no, there's a separate line to suppress when in KDE ... ummm ...
10:05<zxq9>Hrm... I'm wondering if there is some unsanitary pre/post install stuff in the debs that is tripping you up.
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10:05<SynrGy>Geek2B: if there's no "NotShowIn:" line already, you could add a line with "NotShowIn=KDE;"
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10:06<SynrGy>Geek2B: if there is on already, you can append "KDE;" to the end of the list
10:06<SynrGy>is one*
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10:07<Geek2B>i got that line: OnlyShowIn=GNOME;KDE;XFCE;
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10:08<SynrGy>Geek2B: oh, then remove "KDE;" from the middle if you don't want it when in kde
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10:09<SynrGy>i honestly don't see what function tracker-miner-fs serves if you already have nepomuk :p
10:09<SynrGy>seems to be redundant
10:09<SynrGy>and am therefore a little surprised to see that OnlyShowIn includes KDE
10:10<SynrGy>zxq9: you seem to know a bit more about KDE than i do. any comment?
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10:10<SynrGy>but we're chasing side issues now that won't solve your main problem
10:10<Geek2B>if i purge gdm3 would it do anyrhing to a pre/post installation ?
10:11<SynrGy>well, it might upset the gnome metapackage ...
10:11<SynrGy>taking out huge amounts (but not all) of gnome with it
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10:12<SynrGy>i think before doing anything so drastic, it's more useful to try to figure out *which* script messes up, if zxq9's hunch is right
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10:15<Geek2B>well that what happen when you a knew to a thing. I have a class of linux so i decide to get my self a linux. But i didnt like gnome
10:15<Geek2B>didnt know i could install kde directly from dvd tho
10:16<Geek2B>i just found out i could
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10:17<SynrGy>Geek2B: yep
10:18<somiaj>Geek2B: you can also choose which de to install from the netinstall, though it is kinda hidden and you have to look under advanced boot options (I think it should be just in tasksel at the end myself)
10:19<Geek2B>and is there a way to install KDE and choose what program it will install because there a sh** load of stuff i will never use
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10:19<Geek2B>i might install again to be able to start my home work
10:20<Geek2B>not that i cant start now with the installation i got but i like thing that work my way
10:20<Geek2B>hehe
10:20<SynrGy>Geek2B: too distracted by learning/solving new things?
10:20<Geek2B>yea
10:20<Geek2B>lol
10:21<Geek2B>i think is why we all love linux right
10:22<Geek2B>anyway, thx SynrG you've been great help for me this morning.
10:22<Geek2B>brb later
10:23<somiaj>Geek2B: installing KDE by the task or metapackage pulls in everything that is consierded part of KDE. If you manually install things from a minimum base system, you can pick and choose what parts you want.
10:23<somiaj>I think there is a kde core or base package that you can use as a starting point and not pull in all the extra stuff
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10:23<SynrGy>yep. again:
10:23<SynrGy>!install kde
10:23<dpkg>The 'kde-standard' package gets you the common set-up, 'kde-plasma-desktop' and 'kde-plasma-netbook' provide minimal KDE 4 setups with respective flavouring, and 'kde-full' installs everything KDE 4. To install using Debian-Installer (if not using KDE CD-1): from the Installer boot menu, select "Advanced options > Alternative desktop environments > KDE > Install".
10:24<SynrGy>those are your basic choices.
10:24<SynrGy>if you install from CD and don't want the standard desktop, but just want to pick and choose components after, then uncheck the Desktop option ...
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10:24<SynrGy>proceed to installing a base + standard system, and install the components you want afterwards.
10:25<SynrGy>basically what somiaj said
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10:42<zsero>hi, I’d like to run a tiny script very early on at bootup, can you tell me what is the easiest way to do this in wheezy?
10:42<koollman>how early is 'very early' ?
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10:43<zsero>as early as I can write to the filesystem
10:43<zsero>which level is S run at?
10:44<koollman>single. but I wonder what you are really trying to do with that
10:44<koollman>why can't it be run later, or with regular init scripts ?
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10:44<Brigo>!tell zsero about runlevels
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10:45<zsero>I’d like to set a setting (display adapter settings), which will need a reboot afterwards. I’d like to do it very early on, not to delay the startup too much
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10:46<somiaj>almost seems as if there would be a better way to have a default settting than running a script to change it. What setting needs to have a different defaults. Have you looked to change the config files to use this as default.
10:46<somiaj>as in what setting do you want to change.
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10:47<zsero>i’m trying to fix the defaults. it’s a file on the /boot partition of a raspberry, it has nothing to do with debian
10:47<zsero>my script is parsing the edid values and setting the right ones and then does a reboot
10:47<somiaj>then why are you asking in #debian
10:47<somiaj>!raspbian
10:47<dpkg>Raspbian is a distribution <based on Debian> made specifically for the <Raspberry Pi>. Raspbian is not Debian and it is not supported in #debian. Please use #raspbian on irc.freenode.net for support. http://www.raspbian.org/
10:47<zsero>it has nothing to do with raspbian
10:48<zsero>I’m just trying to run a script in debian
10:48<SynrGy>zsero: you understand our confusion, then. you said "it has nothing to do with debian"
10:48<somiaj>lots of ways to do that, but my guess is you can change the actuall setting you need in /etc/defaults or some other config file.
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10:49<zsero>the fact that it is a file in /boot is not important here. what I’m trying to do is to have a script run at boot and write to a file
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10:52<dark-jedi>zsero: Can we see a copy of the script?
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10:53<somiaj>follow standard initscript setup, if you need it earlier write a custom initscript with correct LSB headers, if it happening at the end of boot is okay, /etc/rc.local is a fine place to run things. But in the end it shoulds like there would be a better solution to your problem but it also sounds like a rasbian problem in the end too.
10:53<zsero>at the moment I just want to touch a simple file
10:53<zsero>http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=5QPGDqy9
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10:54<zsero>ok, this particular problem is indeed raspbian related, but my quesion was more general, I want to learn how to write a minimal init script for debian
10:55<Maulkin>zsero: Well, for Debian, copy /etc/init.d/skeleton
10:55-!-uppik [~va7tz@S0106602ad08ee570.ok.shawcable.net] has joined #debian
10:56<Maulkin>(That may or may not work with raspian)
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10:56<dark-jedi>zsero: All that does is create a new file. Is that the whole script!?
10:56<zsero>I am developing this in desktop wheezy
10:56<zsero>yes, I’m just trying to make it work
10:57<SynrGy>zsero: the optics of asking a raspbian related question but reframing it as a 'general' debian question are not too good. :p the best way to learn how to do something on debian is to do it on debian.
10:57<dark-jedi>zsero: Okay, well... if you give the desktop a chance to load, you could simply add a Startup command to load a Terminal and execute your function.
10:57<zsero>I am on a debian wheezy, trying to learn about scripts
10:57<SynrGy>ok, great
10:57<zsero>my pi is not even turned on
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10:58<dark-jedi>zsero: For example, it could be something like "terminator -e /path/to/your/script"
10:58<dark-jedi>zsero: And as part of the startup routine it would load the script and execute it.
10:59<zsero>i know there are loads of ways to do it, I could also put it in rc.local. the touch line is just to test if I can write to the filesystem, and I believe my problem is that at that stage i cannot yet write
10:59<zsero>is it possible that I need Required-Start: mountkernfs?
11:00<dark-jedi>zsero: Until I see the entire script, I have no way of knowing at what point you need to run this command...
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11:00<zsero>I’m just practicing, I’d like to write that one file to /tmp
11:00<dark-jedi>zsero: What exactly are you trying to do, besides touch a file at the very beginning of boot?
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11:01<zsero>for the moment, all I’d love to do is to touch a file as early as I can
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11:40<cae>how do I open the xfce main menu without having a mouse plugged in? (Dumb question, but I'm not familiar with the so called user friendly desktops...)
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11:50<Brigo>cae, may be alf+F1 or F2 or so ...
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11:52<cae>Brigo: yeah, that's among the shortcuts I tried... Alt+F2 opens a "run program" box (which I knew) but other Alt+Fx keys don't help either
11:53<cae>I'll just search a mouse, it might be quicker... ;-)
11:53<Brigo>cae, well, sorry, so, i can not help :)
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11:55<cae>Brigo: no problem, clicking works perfect now. Thanks for your thoughts
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11:58<Brigo>cae, yw :)
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12:29<Xylon>how to open default web browser with terminal?
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12:30<sney>x-www-browser / gnome-www-browser
12:30<SynrGy>alternatively: xdg-open index.html
12:30<SynrGy>depends on what you're trying to do
12:30<Xylon>it will be a command for Sylpheed to open html emails
12:31<SynrGy>wait, that works with http:// and https:// too
12:31<SynrGy>x-www-browser is the debian-specific alternatives-system way
12:31<SynrGy>xdg-open is the user-settings-sensitive opendesktop standards way
12:31<SynrGy>if you want the 'system-wide configured default web browser' use x-www-browser
12:32<SynrGy>if you want the user-configured one, use xdg-open
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12:32<Xylon>ah, it should be xdg-open then
12:32<SynrGy>test for it, and fall back to x-www-browser if you can't find it ...
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12:32<SynrGy>all web browsers should provide an alternative
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12:33<SynrGy>whereas you can't necessarily guarantee a user with a web browser also has xdg-open
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12:33<Xylon>OK, thanks!
12:35<SynrGy>Xylon: see also /usr/bin/sensible-browser for a different approach
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12:36<SynrGy>Xylon: sensible-utils is Priority: required, so you can count on it being there.
12:36<Xylon>ah
12:36<SynrGy>Xylon: so maybe xdg-open, if present, otherwise fall back to sensible-browser
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12:37<Xylon>OK
12:37<SynrGy>xdg-utils is only Priority: optional
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12:45<willupc>中文?
12:46<SynrGy>!zh
12:46<dpkg>如果您想要得到中文的協助,請加入伺服器上的 #debian-zh (irc.oftc.net) 頻道,加入方法為在輸入框中輸入 "/server irc.oftc.net" 和 "/join #debian-zh" (不要加引號),謝謝您的合作!
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12:48<vrishab>tried installing virtualbox-guest-x11 on debian .... getting this error virtualbox-guest-x11 depends xorg-video-abi-15 ...
12:50<towo`>then it seems you are not using stable
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12:52<vrishab>i'm using sid ... so it is not possible to install the virtualbox-guest-x11 package ?
12:53<towo`>not at the moment, since sid is using xserver 1.16-rc
12:53<towo`>and btw, testing and sid support is in #debian-next, not here
12:53<Maulkin>!unstable
12:53<dpkg>Unstable is the status of a Debian release when packages can be added at any time, that can disrupt the integrity of the whole system! Ask me about <break>. If you have to ask whether you should use it or how, you shouldn't. http://www.debian.org/releases/unstable/ http://wiki.debian.org/DebianUnstable . See also <testing>, <sid>, <sid faq>, <apt-listbugs>, <apt-listchanges>, <bts>.
12:54<oxez>There are a few other things not possible to install at the moment in sid, like nvidia-drivers, due to the xorg update
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12:55<vrishab>ok .. thanks guys !!
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12:58<SamB>hmm, is the interface that can be expected of /usr/bin/sendmail documented somewhere? ... oh, maybe I should check policy ...
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12:59<Maulkin>man sendmail? :)
12:59<SamB>that just takes me to the manpage for exim
12:59<Maulkin>http://www.sendmail.org/~ca/email/man/sendmail.html
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13:00<SamB>policy mentioned the FHS in connection with this ...
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13:01<SamB>oh, sorry, I guess that's /usr/sbin/sendmail
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13:02<SamB>the FHS really needs updating :-(
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13:04<SamB>Maulkin: perhaps you've got the ticket, since the FHS doesn't actually say what it means to be sendmail-compatible
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13:08<sistemas>hello, where do i can find to create nologin users for samba in debian
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13:09<sistemas>im looking for this documentation, it seems that the command adduser -s /sbin/no login user doesnt work anymore
13:10<sney>setting a shell to /bin/false would work well enough
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13:11<SamB>Maulkin: I found some rules in LSB, though, which is probably useful despite Debian not officially implementing LSB
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13:11<sistemas>sney, ill try, i read there are a few differences but ill check
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13:51<sistemas>yeah i found how to do it and it work
13:52<sistemas>several changes sice debian 5
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14:54<zartoosh>hi how could I look at the content of a deb pkg using dpkg ?
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14:55<cntrx>zartoosh, .deb files are actually "ar" archives, you can use the "ar" command to extract them
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15:06<retrospectacus>zartoosh: you can view many aspects and attibutes of the package with "dpkg-deb" command
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15:14<zartoosh>thanks
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15:26<pippone>ciaoo
15:26<pippone>!list
15:26<dpkg>pippone: Debian è un sistema operativo composto da software libero (un concetto distinto da quello di gratis): vedi http://www.debian.org/intro/free.it.html per saperne di più.
15:27<centrx>Why does this keep happening?
15:27-!-spippi [~spippi@host224-106-dynamic.53-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #debian
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15:29<Brigo>ceny, nobody knows :-/
15:30-!-supaman [~ojs@adsl-2-232.du.snerpa.is] has joined #debian
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16:42<rryoumaa>what exactly does apt-clone do with keyrings, and why?
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16:45<Mixxit>hey guys anyone know how i set up wifi in fluxbox
16:45<Mixxit>i added wicd to my fluxbox startup but it wouldnt appear in the corner
16:46<Mixxit>only when i launched it after opening fluxbox
16:46-!-LucasPoldrosky [~omar@181.55.78.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:46<musca>https://wiki.debian.org/WiFi
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16:50<Mixxit>hmm done that and installed the drivers
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17:23<uso>do iptables and ip6tables share namespaces or anything else? if yes, what do they share?
17:24<uso>shouldn't they operate independently of each other?
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17:33<lKm>Hi I was updating dovecot when dpkg crashed, and dovecot's executibles were all chmoded to 000, I fixed that but dovecot won't start due to it failing to load shared libraries. Does anyone know how to fix?
17:34<retrospectacus>apt-get install --reinstall dovecot
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17:34<lKm>retrospectacus, it refuses because it cannot start
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17:36<uso>lKm: what version did you install? why did you install it with dpkg?
17:37-!-mode/#debian [+l 653] by debhelper
17:37<lKm>I installed it using apt-get, not dpkg, sorry, I installed dovecot-imapd, package dovecot uninstalled fine
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17:54<lKm>uso: I got it to uninstall but now when I reinstall it isn't reinstalling the executibles
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17:59<blast007>!bat
17:59<dpkg>In order for us to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, aptitude or dselect we need the following information: The complete output of your apt-get/aptitude/dselect run (including the command you used); the output from apt-cache policy PKG1 PKG2...; for the relevant packages and "apt-cache policy". Use http://paste.debian.net/ to provide us with this information. Also ask me about <localized errors>.
17:59<valdyn>lKm: you should get an actual error message while installing
17:59-!-danderss1n [~daniel@c83-248-170-78.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:59<lKm>valdyn: nope, no error messages
17:59<blast007>lKm: provide us the information that dpkg mentioned
18:00<valdyn>lKm: run debsums
18:00<valdyn>lKm: see what errors it throws
18:00<valdyn>lKm: what are you calling "executables" ?
18:01<valdyn>lKm: which shared libraries is that error about?
18:01<lKm>valdyn: the ones in /usr/sbin
18:01<lKm>the errors about shared libraries, it says they don't exist (they do) in /usr/lib/dovecot
18:01<retrospectacus>lKm: we can't help you if you can't tell us the actual errors
18:02<valdyn>lKm: thats a differernt package then
18:02<lKm>i'm running debsums now
18:02<valdyn>lKm: that package is called "dovecot-core"
18:03<retrospectacus>lKm: don't try to explain to us what happened, just copy and paste the whole thing to http://paste.debian.net/ (as well as the !bat info dpkg mentioned)
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18:03<gordy>om
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18:04<JasonO>hide, I'm having trouble with scp it's giving me a blank line. I get this line after I run the command: ___ _ _ ____ ___ ___ __ __ _
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18:04<JasonO>*Hi
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18:05<valdyn>JasonO: paste everything on a paste site
18:05<JasonO>valdyn: May I pleae PM it to you?
18:05<valdyn>JasonO: thats not useful to you
18:06<valdyn>JasonO: you want help? paste it on paste site.
18:06<JasonO>No. I meantthe link valdyn
18:06<JasonO>*meant_the
18:06<valdyn>JasonO: you should paste the link here
18:06<JasonO>Let me edit then
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18:07<devil_>JasonO: pasting to valdyn would limit your chances for help from 635 to 1 :)
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18:08<valdyn>lKm: you just just run "debsums" thats going to take a long time and produce alot of useless lines ending with OK
18:09<lKm>valdyn: I think I may have fixed the problem, but I will be back with the requested infomation if I can't fix it
18:09<lKm>Thanks for the hlep
18:09<lKm>help*
18:09<valdyn>lKm: welcome
18:11<lKm>valdyn: yippe its fixed :D
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18:12<JasonO>:)
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18:12<JasonO>valdyn: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7782306/
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18:14<blast007>JasonO: are you running Ubuntu?
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18:14<JasonO>blast007: Yes :( But #ubuntu doesn't even know what's wrong and since it's a Unix command....I thought I would try here
18:14<oldlaptop>don't
18:14<JasonO>:-/
18:15<oldlaptop>We don't know or care what ridiculous things ubuntu have done to openssh
18:15<oldlaptop>if we did we'd be in #ubuntu
18:16<blast007>!ubuntuirc
18:16<dpkg>This is not the Ubuntu help channel. Please do /server chat.freenode.net and then /join #ubuntu. If you are using XChat, you can right-click the following link and choose connect. irc://chat.freenode.net/ubuntu
18:16<oldlaptop>ssh/scp/etc are also not standard unix commands, AFAIK
18:16<oldlaptop>unless it's in really recent POSIX
18:16<JasonO>Are you finished?
18:17<oldlaptop>no, we still have to tie you to the stake and set the kindling on fire
18:17<JasonO>xD
18:19<oldlaptop>sshfoo are not in current POSIX
18:19<blast007>JasonO: if the support offered for your distribution isn't up to the challenge, then it may be time to look at another distribution ;)
18:19<oldlaptop>also that
18:20<oldlaptop>JasonO: more general advice: avoid scp where practical
18:20<oldlaptop>it is apparently not a well-documented/defined protocol, and in theory interoperation is difficult
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18:20<blast007>oldlaptop: do you recommend sftp instead? or something else?
18:20<oldlaptop>you're using two copies of the same ubuntu version though
18:21<oldlaptop>which leads me to believe ubuntu broke it, being ubuntu
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18:21<oldlaptop>I recommend avoiding the use of ubuntu
18:21<oldlaptop>(and also sftp, where practical)
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18:22<oldlaptop>http://www.openssh.com/faq.html#2.10
18:22<JasonO>I would like to move to debian but it might not play nice with my hardware
18:22<JasonO>I've been using Ubuntu sicne '08
18:22<JasonO>*since
18:23<oldlaptop>'might'
18:23<valdyn>JasonO: you can use rsync instead
18:23<oldlaptop>see live.debian.net
18:23<valdyn>JasonO: over ssh
18:23<oldlaptop>sftp works
18:23<oldlaptop>sftp is good
18:25<valdyn>JasonO: whats your shell?
18:25<valdyn>JasonO: echo $SHELL
18:26<oldlaptop>JasonO: the two reasons you might possibly have hardware support issues are the older kernel in stable (you can use testing, or a backports kernel), and linux firmware separation (the installer will tell you if that's an issue, it's enough to give it firmware-linux-nonfree (or one of a few other firmware packages from non-free) on a USB drive
18:26<JasonO>valdyn: bash
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18:26<valdyn>JasonO: on both systems?
18:27-!-jason_ [~smuxi@ip68-3-48-99.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:27<JasonO>valdyn: Yes. One is a server.
18:27<oldlaptop>scp is sensitive to shells is it?
18:27<valdyn>oldlaptop: yes
18:27<oldlaptop>works for me between bash and openbsd ksh :P
18:28<oldlaptop>for whatever that may be worth
18:28<valdyn>JasonO: this is your shell or selinux or something like it
18:28<valdyn>JasonO: you can create a new user with default config to test
18:28<JasonO>valdyn: Alright. I have ufw enabled. Not sure if that's part of the problem.
18:29<valdyn>JasonO: its not
18:29<valdyn>JasonO: thats just a firewall thing
18:29<JasonO>Then SSH keys?
18:29<valdyn>JasonO: and you only need port 22, and we know its free
18:29<oldlaptop>JasonO: those are working fine
18:30<valdyn>JasonO: its what i said, create a new user on both systems with default settings to test
18:30<JasonO>I'll do it soon. Dinner atm. One hand. :P
18:30<valdyn>JasonO: http://www.bsdforen.de/threads/ssh-ok-aber-scp-fehler.17420/ if you can read german
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18:31<JasonO>Thanks. I'll translate.
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18:33<valdyn>oldlaptop: logging in into his remote computer causes that remote shell to spam something that irritates scp i think
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18:33<oldlaptop>fragile thing, scp
18:34<valdyn>thats not really an scp issue
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18:35<oldlaptop>It is an issue with its general design I would say
18:35<valdyn>anything that logs in remotely
18:37<valdyn>did he say that sftp works btw?
18:38<oldlaptop>no
18:38<valdyn>i would think it has the same issue
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19:11<surrealillusion>hello there
19:11-!-tsmithe_away is now known as tsmithe
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19:11<surrealillusion>i'm trying to get an older install of debian going for some testing
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19:11<surrealillusion>6.0.5 netinst but i keep getting stuck after i select a mirror and try to download packages
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19:17<ompaul>surrealillusion: not approved for support here - please check out with a web search archive.debian
19:19<surrealillusion>ompaul: ok thanks
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19:20<ompaul>surrealillusion: you should really install wheezy
19:21<ompaul>the other has security bugs that are fixed by running more modern software
19:21<uso>surrealillusion: switch to another console during installation and try to change the lines in /etc/apt/sources.list to oldstable, not sure if that helps, but may be worth a try
19:21<ompaul>uso: it won't
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19:22<uso>surrealillusion: then try a normal installation disk to get the base system running if you really want to install squeeze
19:22<uso>not the netinstall disk
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19:23<chimeric>uso: thanks will try that now
19:23<jmcnaught>they're gone
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19:24<jmcnaught>oh.. just changed nicks. anyways squeeze isn't on archive.debian.org yet as far as i can tell
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19:26<uso>jmcnaught: squeeze is the first debian release which gets LTS, maybe things are different
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19:29<danielson>Hey sorry for not totally understating the proper procedure/etiquette for help if there is some documentation someone could let me know I would be much appreciative. Some hacker installed some gpg keys there are used to transfer files via pureftpd. I cannot download anything without the checksums being off it seems this person or malware is injecting code into my download processes. also I cannot use apt-get as nothing is valid I do have t
19:29<danielson>he complete 10 dvd binary wheezy 7.5.0. I found the gpg keys but when I go to delete them with apt-key del, it complains that the keys don't exist.
19:29<chimeric>and if I want to try and install the same package list as another server will doing a dump of dpkg -l and piping that to a file, then using that file on the new server would I get the same packages installed (perhaps even same version)?
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19:33<zxq9>SynrGy: Did you guys ever get the KDE thing sorted last night? I had to run off in the middle of that.
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19:46<blast007>danielson: if your system has been compromized, the solution is to reinstall the system from scratch
19:46<danielson>yes I have done that many times
19:47-!-mode/#debian [+l 643] by debhelper
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19:47<danielson>its getting to point were windows was. I literally had to reinstall windows daily. debian as of now becomes compromised in roughly 5 to 10 days.
19:48<danielson>I use dirks boot and nuke between installs
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19:51<danielson>I have set up everything very secure. Or as secure as possible.
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19:53<alumno>hol
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19:56<danielson>tried it
19:57<danielson>been using fwsnort but they compromise it when I try to update rules
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19:58<oldlaptop>danielson: is it possible something is MiTM-ing those ftp downloads?
19:58<oldlaptop>like, say, your domestic router/modem/something
19:58<oldlaptop>(i.e. could it be your router that is compromised)
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20:02<danielson>yes it has been all MiTM attacks. I use hardware firewalls just last week I had someone from Bejing ssh into a cisco router that doesn't even support ssh. Ive tried everything from opensource tomato dd-wrt to pfsense to commercial grade. Tried openvpn and dnscrypt they make it look like swiss cheese.
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20:06<danielson>right now I dont have the program pureftpd and never have had it installed. But his gpg keys are on my computer. I tried to contact the owner of the gpg keys but havent head anything back from him.
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20:16<michaelnkoth>does someone know the play my linux command
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20:17<valdyn>danielson: how do you achieve this, being compromised within few days?
20:18-!-silverdethx [~quassel@23-29-7-224.netptc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:19<zxq9>danielson: You obviously have a problem bigger than debian (or any particular system) being open to attack -- something you are running, or another part of your infrastructure is compromised.
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20:19<danielson>I have an idea what they are after, intellectual property. The thing is all of those plans and specs are on computers that don't even have NICs and have never been connected to the internet.
20:19-!-silverdethx [~quassel@23-29-7-224.netptc.net] has joined #debian
20:19<zxq9>danielson: Or... the things you are thinking are attacks actually aren't.
20:19<valdyn>danielson: youre confused
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20:21<viccuad>sounds like a creepy pasta story
20:21<valdyn>!whois danielson
20:21<valdyn>oops
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20:22<danielson>lol thats funny. I just had a meeting with local police who do internet crime and they concurred that someone is targeting me, but unfortunately they cannot do anything about it. And yes the USCERT doesn't care
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20:23<oldlaptop>you very probably need (more?) professional help?
20:24<valdyn>i dont believe one word
20:24<danielson>cool man
20:24<viccuad>I have a friend that got venture capital for a startup, and at the same time a buy offer from some chinese people. They declined the buy offer, and the same week they were being massacred by Chinese ips
20:24<danielson>I don't really care. I'm not trying to get validation from you. I'm just looking for help
20:25<dondelelcaro>folks, this is #debian. Please take the off topic stuff elsewhere.
20:25<zxq9>Chinese espionage is a real thing. No doubt. But its not something that a single debian reinstall fixes, because the compromise is not coming from the OS.
20:25<valdyn>!tell danielson -about ask
20:25<viccuad>danielson: you could try at debian-offtopic
20:25<viccuad>or security
20:26<danielson>ty
20:26<oldlaptop>danielson: you can't find the help you need here, most likely
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20:27<zxq9>Anyway, we know the real solution. The single copy of the secret plans should be placed on a chip within one of your teeth, and you've got to engage in an international spy/chase adventure (hopefully through space and time), seduce the asian spy mistress, and destroy mother brain together in the ultimate final showdown.
20:27<viccuad>talking about debian, are debian packages built in a deterministic way, and checked by building the packages again by other developer?
20:28<zxq9>viccuad: They are built within a common build system which guarantees a clean environment.
20:29<oldlaptop>it would take a pretty well-placed mole to break one or more buildds
20:29<viccuad>but, are they cross checked with other DD packages or something?
20:29<zxq9>viccuad: It is functionally deterministic, but it is not *absolutely* deterministic -- for example, generated documentation and timestamp tags containing buildtime information will always be different, so generated binaries will demonstrate slight variations.
20:29<valdyn>viccuad: no, not as far as i know
20:29<viccuad>so, at the end
20:29<one>Hi
20:29<oldlaptop>there has been interest/work on true deterministic builds, IIRC
20:30<one>I want to change font terminal
20:30<viccuad>you just need to compromise one DD that ships a somewhat ubiquous package that gets used by root for example, and that's all
20:30<zxq9>This was just discussed on the Scientific Linux Users list the other day, actually.
20:30<one>I want to change font terminal
20:30<one>How
20:30<zxq9>There are ways to force completely deterministic builds, but its not something that is a part of any open source project's build system currently.
20:30<oldlaptop>viccuad: no, the builds are not done by individual DDs
20:30<viccuad>I will look into it
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20:31<oldlaptop>they're done on project infrastructure
20:31<valdyn>viccuad: you might want to check out how linux kernel developers do "security"
20:31<one>I want to change font terminal
20:31<zxq9>The real root of the problem is determining whether you can trust a given compiler or runtime, and prove the provenance of any source you're going to build.
20:31<one>How??
20:31<oldlaptop>one: first you re-word your question so other people can comprehend it
20:31<viccuad>I'm aware of the bootstrap problem
20:31<oldlaptop>repetition doesn't work
20:32<valdyn>one: which terminal?
20:32<zxq9>And this is just back to the "trusting trust" problem that Ken Thompson wrote about: http://cm.bell-labs.com/who/ken/trust.html
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20:33<oldlaptop>zxq9: it's possible to counter that (involves deterministic builds and compilers that are completely different from each other)
20:33<oldlaptop>http://www.dwheeler.com/trusting-trust/
20:33<one>gui termina
20:33<q8evil>hello
20:33<oldlaptop>one: which one?!
20:33<one>gui terminal
20:33<one>on debian
20:34<oldlaptop>Which GUI terminal?
20:34<one>what ?
20:34<oldlaptop>Which GUI terminal?
20:34<viccuad>one: GUI means Grafical User Interface. Its like saying, I want to paint my car! which car? the one that has 4 wheels!
20:34<oldlaptop>(maybe it'll work for me?)
20:34<viccuad>hhahah
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20:35<one>gnome
20:35<viccuad>valdyn: what do you mean by how kernel developers do security exactly?
20:36<viccuad>one: first link on google: https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-terminal/stable/app-fonts.html.en
20:36<zxq9>oldlaptop: I haven't seen this, interesting. OTOH, this is not a solution for us, as current build systems aren't designed anywhere close to this.
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20:37<valdyn>viccuad: its interesting
20:37<oldlaptop>zxq9: they need to be *re*designed at some point
20:38<zxq9>oldlaptop: But that brings up an interesting point about Borland and Intel compiler licenses... you can't distribute binaries built with them (unless you buy a special license), but would it be permissible to build gcc with it, then build gcc fresh with that gcc, and then distribute gcc->gcc binary.
20:38<valdyn>viccuad: or theres no security at all, but it works
20:38<oldlaptop>who would care?
20:39<viccuad>zxq9: the compiler could detect that it's compiling a compiler, and include code
20:39<one>viccuad:I see that
20:39<oldlaptop>viccuad: please see the link I posted :)
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20:39<zxq9>viccuad: That's what oldlaptop is pointing out, that there is (possibly -- I haven't read it yet) a way around this.
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20:40<zxq9>Of course, a deeper compromise of the overall system is probably possible as well.
20:40<one>viccuad:I see that
20:40<viccuad>I have 3 links in queue from you guys xD. I can't read so fast
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20:41<one>I want to add font for terminal
20:41<zxq9>A concentrated espionage effort could probably compromise Borland, Microsoft, GNU, AMD and Intel compilers all to recognise this case. Of course, that greatly increases the chance of discovery of the espionage effort, but it is entirely plausible.
20:41<viccuad>one: then, install them first. download whatever font you want from the internet, double click on it, install
20:42<one>i installed but not in terminal
20:42<viccuad>well, thinking at that level, better compromise the microcode of the processors
20:42<zxq9>viccuad: Which has been happening in network and storage devices for some time now.
20:42<oldlaptop>zxq9: the trusted compiler doesn't have to be current
20:42<zxq9>viccuad: Its a prickly problem.
20:42<oldlaptop>it doesn't have to be anything you'd normally *use*
20:43<viccuad>one: close session or reboot
20:43<viccuad>one:
20:43<one>I closed but ..
20:43<viccuad>you need monospaced fonts for terminals
20:43<zxq9>oldlaptop: True. Anyway, the counter is to bootstrap two fresh compilers from scratch on from scratch hardware built for the purpose. And that's not actually that expensive/hard to do anyway. So there is a cheap(ish) way to break the cycle.
20:43-!-jalalsfs [~jalal@0001afc5.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
20:44<viccuad>that's the compiling only
20:44<one>I closed but ..
20:44-!-amphi_ [~amphi@89.140.132.217.static.user.ono.com] has joined #debian
20:44<zxq9>oldlaptop: And by "from scratch" I mean custom chips, not just commodity off-the-shelf parts.
20:44<viccuad>get a bug, get someone inside, and the compiler doesn't matter anymore
20:45<zxq9>viccuad: Yes, that is only the compiling. Compromising controllers and microcode is a much more robust attack.
20:45<one>viccuad:I closed but ...
20:45-!-Arrowmaster [~arrow@0001713f.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:45<zxq9>viccuad: The saving grace is that the more stuff an intelligence agency collects the more difficult it becomes to decide what is relevant.
20:46<viccuad>zxq9: well.. you surely can't fly to the chinese factory to see the fpga or the chip you ordered if it hasnt been unaltered
20:46<zxq9>viccuad: We dealt with this problem a lot when I was in the military, at nearly every level of intelligence.
20:46<viccuad>well
20:46<viccuad>seeing it that way
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20:47<viccuad>I would prefer if they couldn't collect anything, anyway
20:47<zxq9>Me too.
20:47<one>viccuad:I closed but ...
20:47<viccuad>one: reboot
20:47<zxq9>But they can. Its just as firm a reality as the fact that lay users will always be able to circumvent censorship and DRM.
20:47<one>yes
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20:47<viccuad>arf
20:48<viccuad>then, mesh networks
20:48<viccuad>lets hop from ip to ip every 20 secs
20:48<zxq9>That has a fuzzy definition. What do you mean?
20:48<zxq9>That's not really changing the situation.
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20:49<viccuad>it isn't, it isn't
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20:50<viccuad>at least they couldn't profile you
20:50<zxq9>Until you use any Google product, you mean.
20:50<viccuad>well, I don't use any google product xD
20:50<viccuad>but yep, I get it. just with cookies and logins, they have you
20:51<zxq9>Yes, there are multiple avenues. The very definition of a "robust" approach.
20:51<zxq9>But this generates literally quadrillions of datapoints.
20:51<zxq9>Its staggering how huge the data actually is.
20:51-!-amphi [~amphi@89.140.189.251.static.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:51<zxq9>And that's why, without a designated target, the data is useless.
20:51<viccuad>but you are there, in the db
20:51<viccuad>waiting to become a designated target
20:52<viccuad>running for office? ok, let's see what we have from this guy
20:52<zxq9>Of course, there's no manual on how to "not become a target". But my point is that there is a weird sort of balance to how practically useful IS compromises actually can be.
20:52<zxq9>This is entirely true.
20:52-!-zerick [~eocrospom@190.187.21.53] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:53<viccuad>so at the end, you are a designated target in the making
20:54<viccuad>so, what's the saner way to go?
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20:54<zxq9>The real circumvention is for a player (person, organization, whatever) to generate some leverage over the situation, which either obviates the usefulness of past activity data (the equivalent of admitting you've had an affair before running for office) or causes the use of the data to be more damaging to the attacker than the target (usually for political reasons).
20:54<one>I rebooted
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20:55<one>viccuad : I rebooted
20:55<zxq9>IOW, we're right back where we started, realizing the world is not an inherently friendly place. We are all Aristotle.
20:55<viccuad>the more connected you are, the more exposed
20:56<viccuad>but man, that's no way to live
20:56<zxq9>If you're trying to hide some fantastic new IP you've developed -- stop hiding it. Flaunt it. Now everyone knows exactly who developed it and owns it. Theft is no longer a real option.
20:56<zxq9>As one example.
20:56-!-jordanm [~jordan@68.52.211.138] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:56<zxq9>You can only pre-empt the situation in useful ways, you cannot combat this directly.
20:57<viccuad>but then you lose the advantage over people that don't care about copyrights bla bla
20:57<zxq9>The key is being cognizant of the threat, and periodically re-evaluating your situation to determine if you are becoming a target, and need to pre-empt a dangerous situation in the making.
20:57<zxq9>You *always* lose that advantage, even the day you publish a product.
20:58<viccuad>which may be years after you have that ip
20:58-!-dash [~quassel@81.27.40.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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20:58<viccuad>or someone with more resources could beat you up delivering it
20:58<zxq9>So its not an advantage. Copyright and patent law is probably going to change a lot in the future anyway. In any case, unless you have some serious legal staff on your side, IP law isn't helping anyone these days -- especially not the little guy.
20:58<viccuad>maybe you should not play the game if your weak point is losing the ip
20:59<zxq9>Right
20:59<viccuad>yeah, I feel the same
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20:59<zxq9>Which means you have to simply understand that the way to score a point in this game is *not* to simply have some IP.
20:59<zxq9>Its to do something with it in a way that creates a position of leverage due to network effect. (for example, there are other ways)
20:59<viccuad>true
20:59<zxq9>Or a kingmaker position, or a trust broker position, or a scoreboarding position (where you're the referee), or whatever.
21:00<jmcnaught>!ot
21:00<dpkg>#debian is primarily a support channel for Debian users. Please keep the discussions in #debian on-topic and take longer discussions and non-support questions to #debian-offtopic. Imagine the chaos if each of the hundreds of people in the channel felt the need to wander off topic for a few minutes every day.
21:00<zxq9>Imagine the chaos if hundreds of people were actually active on oftc.net, ever.
21:00<viccuad>hehehe
21:00<zxq9>But I get the point.
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21:12<jmcnaught>thanks :)
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21:30<imavlr>Could someone recommend me an email client that supports IMAP, that's available in the debian repos? I'm running KDE, fwiw.
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21:35<jmcnaught>imavlr: KMail is part of KDE and supports IMAP. Icedove (the Debian rebranded Thunderbird) also supports IMAP and would run just fine under KDE as well
21:37<imavlr>jmcnaught: Thanks, any reason to prefer one over the other?
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21:39<jmcnaught>imavlr: personal preference I guess. KMail probably integrates better with the rest of KDE. I really like Icedove, but I'm also a Gnome user. Since it's IMAP you could use them both at the same time if you wanted to
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21:43<imavlr>Alright, thank you
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22:03<jay__>hello i'm new to linux in general and this is my first debian distro (antiX) I like it much better than the others i've tried since it worked right out of the box.
22:03<jay__>Is there anything in particular i need to know about debian?
22:06<jmcnaught>jay__: in particular you should know that antiX is not Debian which means it's not supported here :)
22:10<jay__>it's not debian? is says right on the website it is
22:10<jmcnaught>!based on debian
22:10<dpkg>Your distribution may be based on and have software in common with Debian, but it is not Debian. We don't and cannot know what changes were made by your distribution (compare http://futurist.se/gldt/). #debian only supports Debian; please respect our choice to volunteer here to help Debian users. Support for other distributions is off-topic on #debian, even if your own distro's channel is clueless or non-existent.
22:10<jay__>debian DNU/Linux distrobution?
22:10-!-silverdethx [~quassel@23-29-7-224.netptc.net] has joined #debian
22:11<jay__>oh so i can go to debian-offtopic?
22:11<jmcnaught>jay__: so antiX probably has their own IRC channel. However I recommend you give Debian itself a try, instead of a derivative
22:12<jmcnaught>jay__: well, you can go there but it's not a tech-support channel for Debian derivatives
22:12<jay__>but this is the first distro i've ever used that works out of the box. i've tried vector linux, linux mint, puppy linux( but had trouble installing it to HDD), Lubuntu and Xubuntu
22:13<jay__>how can i know debian will give me the same
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22:13<jay__>no one will talk in the antiX channel :(
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22:15<jay__>jmcnaught, will debian work on older laptops?
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22:17<jmcnaught>jay__: Debian works just as well as on older laptops as any other distro. One difference is that with Debian you sometimes have to take additional steps to install non-free firmwares, but this is covered in the Installation Manual and not very difficult
22:18<jay__>ah ok thanks jmcnaught
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23:15<Lean84>debhelper: Necesito un programa tipo al easy cd estractor, que puedo usar. Para extraer pistas de audio de un cd y convertirlo en mp3
23:16<Lean84>tengo el huayra GNU linux
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23:18<sney>!es
23:18<dpkg>Este canal es de soporte tecnico en Ingles para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en espanol, por favor ingrese a #debian-es con /join #debian-es tecleado en la linea de chat.
23:18<sney>(y si no es Debian, por favor ingrese al canal correcto de tu OS.)
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23:27<dualbus>:( the mesage is missing diacritical marks though. técnico, inglés, español, línea
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23:29<sney>the bot's encoding doesn't support them iirc
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23:33<dualbus>ah, makes sense :)
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---Logclosed Sat Jul 12 00:00:01 2014