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#debian IRC Logs for 2014-08-06

---Logopened Wed Aug 06 00:00:08 2014
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00:54-!-adi is "Adrian Friedli" on #debian #debian-ipv6 #debian-next #debian.ch #debian-kde #
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01:42<twb>Remind me, where does "bootdegraded" get specified? In /proc/cmdline?
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01:48<helmut_>hi
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01:49<uso>twb: isn't that a kernel boot option (specified in grub)? but I'm not sure, luckily I never had to use it :)
01:51<twb>I was expecting it to ask me but it hasn't yet (d-i)
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01:52<jm_>ubuntu wiki says initramfs-tools/conf.d/mdadm or kernel boot parameters
01:52<twb>k
01:53<twb>I can't see it actually *implemented* anywhere in /usr/share/initramfs-tools or /lib which made me suspicious
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01:54<jm_>my debian server is too old to check
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02:10<twb>Didn't like me
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02:10<twb>I passed just "bootdegraded" in the kernel params and mdadm assembled my array and LVM is there and my LV is there, but it still dropped into a ramdisk shell
02:11<twb>didn't do a vgchange -ay tho
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02:12<uso>twb: "mdadm assembled my array", has it started to resync the disks?
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02:14<twb>no because it's degraded, obviously
02:14<twb>I only have one disk, so I set up a raid1 of it and missing, so that when the second disk arrives I can just add it
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02:15<twb>Once I manually vgchange -ay and just exit, booting resumes normally
02:15<SamB>twb: that *would* make it difficult to resync the disks ;-)
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02:15<mpourhadi>how can i create .iso file from my usb? the file system is hfs+
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02:16<twb>mpourhadi: ISO and HFS+ are different filesystems
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02:16<twb>What are you really trying to do?
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02:17<uso>twb: ah, so your problem is only that the system does not boot automatically in that degraded state?
02:17<mpourhadi>i have mac osx in my usb and wanto create image that i can run in VBox
02:17<twb>uso: right, which is what "bootdegraded" is supposed to tell it
02:17<twb>Maybe it's only debian-installer of *ubuntu* that asks me about bootdegraded
02:18<twb>mpourhadi: just treat it as an ordinary hard disk, then, with HFS+ (not ISO9660) on it.
02:18<uso>twb: ok ok, I downgrade that to minor :P, I would not try to bother with that and instead add a 2nd disk to it :)
02:18<twb>*maybe* bootdegraded is an ubuntuism, even! That would explain why I can't find any reference to it in initramfs-tools
02:19<uso>twb: only thing I fround is: modinfo md_mod --> start_dirty_degraded:int
02:19<uso>s/fround/found/
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02:20<jm_>twb: ubtuntu seems to have /etc/initramfs-tools/conf.d/mdadm which is not in debian
02:21<twb>root@dewey:~# grep -r degrad /lib/init/ /usr/share/initramfs-tools /etc/initramfs-tools/ ==> no hits
02:21<twb>Well this is a bit bloody annoying
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02:22<uso>I do not even know what is reassembling the raid these days, last time I had to fight with raid problems the kernel only could assemble v0.9 raids and for raid 1.x you had to use mdadm, but maybe the kernel has learned to reassemble v1.x raids meanwhile
02:22<twb>uso: it's done by /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/mdadm
02:23<uso>twb: ok, so probably still the same
02:23<uso>I guess then that mechanism simply does not work anymore
02:24<uso>*with the bootdegraded kernel option
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02:31<mpourhadi>twb, i try to use partimage but it could not create it as well as brasero
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02:35<twb>OK I think the problem is that I have weirdness in mdadm.conf that was created by d-i
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02:36<twb>http://sprunge.us/jVJP
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02:37<twb>http://sprunge.us/OOZb mdadm.conf and mdstat
02:37<twb>I don't know what that imsm and container shit it
02:37<twb>*is
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02:40<twb>Apparently imsm is a completely different kind of metadat from 0.9 and 1.x
02:40<twb>I'm scared!
02:41<SamB>twb: hmm, isn't paultag the one who's crazy about containers?
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02:41<twb>mdadm containers?
02:41<twb>This ain't no LXC bro
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02:44<twb>OK now it says "Success: Assembled all arrays" --- but then it still times out because it hasn't vgchange'd
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03:01<twb>Bleh, if systemd wants boot to be fast so much, it should start from the ramdisk instead of all these messy SUS sh scripts
03:01<twb>34MiB of them
03:02<SamB>twb: be careful what you wish for
03:03<twb>Oh that wasn't serious
03:03<SamB>not that it makes any difference to whether they're working on that or not
03:03<SamB>pretty sure it's at least on the radar
03:04<twb>OK so it looks like if you boot with root=UUID=<blah>, the ramdisk won't start the LV
03:04<twb>Because since i last looked it has changed from "eh, just start all LVMs" to "if root=/dev/mapper/foo-bar then start the foo vg only"
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03:07<rjsalts>twb: I thought that was only in testing/unstable though
03:07<twb>rjsalts: which?
03:07<rjsalts>the lvm root and root=UUID.... stuff
03:07<twb>http://sprunge.us/gIja?sh is what I just pulled from the ramdisk of a wheezy install
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03:08<twb>You can see it's only trying to activate the VG & LV of "$ROOT" and "$resume" devices -- wherever THEY get set...
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03:09<themill>/etc/initramfs-tools/conf.d/resume:RESUME=/dev/mapper/…
03:09<twb>OK if I change root=UUID to root=/dev/mapper/vg-lv, then it immediately works
03:09<rjsalts>hrm, I thought the breakage was more recent than wheezy. Is initramfs tools from backports?
03:09<twb>That's bloody annoying
03:09<twb>rjsalts: it may accidentally have been, but I haven't explicitly asked for backports yet afaik
03:10<rjsalts>you can also do #GRUB_DISABLE_LINUX_UUID=true in /etc/default/grub
03:10<twb>http://sprunge.us/jabU
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03:10<twb>I'm not using grub
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03:10<rjsalts>ah, well, whatever you use to set the kernel cmdline
03:10<twb>I was passing the UUID because it's less ugly than /dev/mapper
03:10<twb>But anyway, problem solved
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03:12<rjsalts>oh, maybe it was just that grub was passing the /dev/mapper/... stuff in wheezy and they changed the default in testing/unstable at some point
03:12<twb>Rargh
03:12<twb>That script is yuk anyway
03:12<twb>twb SMASH
03:13<rjsalts>yeah, I find it to be pretty unreadable whenever I'm debugging problems in initramfs boots that fail
03:14<twb>The PREREQ crap also annoys me... I don't know why we couldn't just have 50-mdadm and 75-lvm2 sort of thing
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04:35<crisal>hello
04:36<crisal>hello
04:36<jm_>!ask
04:36<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
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04:41<grummund>Hi, could anyone suggest debian tools to read .QIF files for the purpose of importing into libreoffice spreadsheet?
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04:43<grummund>gnucash may convert to .CSV format, but before i investigate that option perhaps someone will suggest a smarter way?
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04:45<twb>apt-cache search QIF, aptitude search '?tag(finance)' are good places to start
04:45<twb>IIRC a couple others also import quicken, but I dunno about for the purposes of then punting it to LO calc
04:46<twb>Of the ones I looked at, gnucash was definitely the oldest and complicatedest
04:47<grummund>yep i did apt-cache search and it throws up: gnucash, grisbi, kmymoney, skrooge, and a perl library.
04:47*grummund not used any of them before, gnucash is the only one i have heard of.
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04:49<grummund>aptitude search '?tag(finance)' lists quite a few more
04:49<jm_>i use homebank for it and it can read qif files
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04:50<jm_>gnucash and its double entry thing, not for me
04:50<grummund>jm_: and export to csv? (that's all i need to acheive)
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04:51<jm_>grummund: looks like it can only export in .qif
04:51<grummund>ok thanks
04:52<jm_>no problem
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04:59<twb>I think grisbi and homebank where the ones I looked at
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04:59<twb>jm_: double entry is a really really really important thing!
04:59<twb>It stops you accidentally creating money ab initio, which is something governments take a dim view of
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05:00<twb>The "equity" bit a the start is a bit confusing, but you just ignore that and soldier on and it works out
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05:01<jm_>not going to bother with that for my very simple personal finance tracking
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05:04<twb>I confess that I stopped doing it ages ago and haven't got back into it
05:04<twb>Mostly because every time I try, I spend a day trying to build current ledger and fighting boost, then give up
05:05*grummund already has double entry bookkeeping on the spreadsheet, just need a way to import .qif files
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05:42<jm_>i had to do the opposite - one of my bank accounts only exports csv, but it's trivial to write a script to convert between the two
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05:43<babilen>If only my bank accounts would *import* CSVs ;)
05:44<babilen>Oh, not -offtopic. Sorry.
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05:48<CyberBob>the nvram in one of my laptops is holding onto a bios password even without bios battery and the system is locked to boot from hdd only. i just wiped the hdd, is there an easy way to image something to the hdd to boot the netinst or netboot (i don't know which to use) from? pxe would be easy enough but as i said it's locked to hdd boot only
05:49<jm_>tried putting netinst image there?
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05:49<koollman>CyberBob: find the manual, check how to reset/change bios password ?
05:50<CyberBob>no way to
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05:51<petn-randall>CyberBob: You can use debootstrap to prepare a disk, assuming you have a second machine to work from.
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05:52<CyberBob>petn-randall that sounds like the ticket
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05:52<CyberBob>i've got another wheezy machine available right here
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05:53<jalalsfs>When I try to connect debian system via ssh, it says "ssh: connect to host 192.168.45.101 port 22: Connection refused"
05:55<jm_>!connection refused
05:55<dpkg>When a TCP connection (e.g. telnet somehost 80) gives the error "connection refused", it means that either the service in question is not running on the specified IP address at all (e.g. apache has died), or that a firewall has rejected your SYN packet and sent back a rejection packet to you. It's a VERY CLEAR, EXPLICIT error message and ALWAYS means one of those two things.
05:55<jm_>it might also be trying to connect to wrong port
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05:57<CyberBob>!debootstrap
05:57<dpkg>debootstrap can create a basic Debian system from scratch, without apt/dpkg. Useful for installing in a <chroot>. It is key to installing Debian GNU/Linux from a Unix/Linux system, ask me about <install guide>. http://wiki.debian.org/Debootstrap http://www.debian-administration.org/article/Installing_new_Debian_systems_with_debootstrap
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05:57<SynrGy>jm_: i.e. a variation of "thing one"
05:58<jm_>SynrGy: yeah, I suppose a simple modification for that would do
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05:58<SynrGy>jm_: feel free to update the factoid if you think it helps :)
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05:59<jalalsfs>jm_, ps -ef |grep ssh "root 1221 1218 0 04:58 tty1 00:00:00 grep ssh"
05:59<jm_>jalalsfs: so it's not running then?
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06:00*SynrGy hints: pgrep
06:00<jalalsfs>jm_, I don't know.
06:00<CyberBob>petn-randall could i just dd netinst iso to the drive or is there no way to keep the partitioner from futzing the image while it's installing
06:00<jm_>jalalsfs: well looks that way
06:01<SynrGy>'pgrep -a ssh' avoids the false hit on grep itself.
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06:02<SynrGy>jalalsfs: i assume that output is from the system you're trying to connect to ... ?
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06:03<jalalsfs>SynrG, Yes,
06:03<SynrGy>jalalsfs: is it in the middle of an unfinished/aborted upgrade?
06:03<SynrGy>that would be my first guess. otherwise, comb the logs for other possible causes.
06:03<SynrGy>(did it ever have an ssh server running on it? is it a new install?)
06:04<jm_>or run it manually with -Dddd
06:04-!-Guest4970 is now known as mutax
06:04<jalalsfs>"ps -ef | pgrep -a ssh" shows nothing.
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06:04<SynrGy>jalalsfs: uhhh
06:04<SynrGy>just: pgrep -a ssh
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06:04<SynrGy>pgrep means 'search the processes'
06:05<jalalsfs>SynrG, Nothing as well
06:05<SynrGy>e.g. 'pgrep -a bash' to see what output normally looks like
06:05<jalalsfs>1095 -bash 1218 bash
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06:06<SynrGy>anyway, we established it's not running. the tip is to clear up your (apparent) confusion from before about grep having a false hit against itself.
06:06<jalalsfs>I installed both "openssh-server and openssh-client"
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06:06<SynrGy>jalalsfs: and is that a new install?
06:06<jm_>and its init script and rc links are in place?
06:06<petn-randall>CyberBob: I'm assuming that won't work since the installer will still access the ISO while it's installing. It will probably fail on the installation step, even if you manage to boot from the ISO from your HDD.
06:07<jalalsfs>yes
06:07<SynrGy>jalalsfs: yes to which question?
06:07<jalalsfs>A new install
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06:07<qwk>Just a simple question, why is the debian wiki always "forbidden" and for which reason?
06:08<SynrGy>jalalsfs: of what? stable? or something else?
06:08<jm_>qwk: works fine for me
06:08<jalalsfs>testing
06:08<SynrGy>so it's possible apt died
06:08<qwk>"Forbidden
06:08<qwk>You are not allowed to access this!"
06:08<qwk>jm_, are you logged in @ debian.org?
06:09<SynrGy>jalalsfs: dpkg --configure --pending
06:09<jm_>qwk: no, i just checked several pages and it works for me
06:09<qwk>hmm, do they block vpn / vps etc?
06:09<jalalsfs>No message after run the command
06:09<SynrGy>jalalsfs: if apt died and the configure scripts were never run for remaining packages, ssh server would not be started
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06:10<jalalsfs>Oh,
06:10<SynrGy>jalalsfs: apt-cache policy openssh-server
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06:10<jm_>try this for example: wget -S http://wiki.debian.org/Xfce
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06:12<qwk>jm_, https://ghostbin.com/paste/82v3t
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06:12<CyberBob>thanks guys i'm off to try http://www.alandmoore.com/blog/2011/12/29/how-to-install-debian-offline/
06:13<jm_>qwk: are you sure there's no proxy/filter somewhere between you and this web server?
06:13<jalalsfs>SynrG, https://imageshack.com/i/exYrorzAp
06:14<qwk>im using a vpn
06:14<SynrGy>07:06 < jalalsfs> I installed both "openssh-server and openssh-client"
06:14<qwk>as exit node
06:14<SynrGy>jalalsfs: apparently not
06:16<jalalsfs>I'll check again
06:16<SynrGy>qwk: i would guess wget is broken
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06:17<jm_>SynrG: why do you think that? works finehere
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06:18<SynrGy>because i have a vague recollection of wget + https = broken for some version of some package ... but i don't recall which (whether it's wget itself or some dependency)
06:18<SynrGy>qwk: apt-cache policy wget
06:19<SynrGy>,v wget
06:19<judd>Package: wget on i386 -- squeeze: 1.12-2.1; wheezy: 1.13.4-3+deb7u1; jessie: 1.15-1+b1; sid: 1.15-1+b1
06:19<jm_>well I have wget 1.13.4 from wheezy and it works
06:19<SynrGy>jm_: yes. same.
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06:28<SynrGy>qwk: possibly relevant? https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=725445
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06:36<jalalsfs>SynrG, Yes you are right, the problem was in apt, now it's okay, thank you so much.
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06:38<SynrGy>np
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06:41<jalalsfs>SynrG, And the problem of the system refuse to restart or shutdown from the desktop environment, only log out, then from LXDM I can shutdown or do reboot for the system, the "systemd-sysv" is installed.
06:42<SynrGy>jalalsfs: you know testing support is on #debian-next ...
06:42<jalalsfs>SynrG, Okay, thanks a lot.
06:42<SynrGy>jalalsfs: lxdm? debian doesn't even have this. maybe you mean lightdm?
06:43<jalalsfs>Yeah, I mean that, but because I use LXDE so I thought it the same, sorry.
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06:45<zeroC>i
06:46<jm_>try askin in #debian-next
06:46<jm_>jalalsfs ^^^
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07:00<billetes>I need help, update kali linux and now I do not accept my password, how do I fix it?
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07:00<jm_>!kali
07:00<dpkg>Kali Linux (http://www.kali.org/) is a security and penetration testing distribution from the creators of <backtrack>. It is based on Debian, but it is not Debian and is not supported in #debian. Seek help in #kali-linux on irc.freenode.net or http://forums.kali.org/ . Also ask me about <based on debian>.
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07:02<jm_>billetes ^^^
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07:29<torete>hopla
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09:27<CyberBob>petn-randall thanks for the tip on debootstrap. followed a tut that worked like a charm
09:27<CyberBob>apt is chuggin away installing things :]
09:27<petn-randall>CyberBob: Cool, glad it worked out for you.
09:27<petn-randall>CyberBob: You'll probably have to chroot into it and fix up the boot loader for it to work, but you'll figure it out.
09:29<CyberBob>http://www.alandmoore.com/blog/2011/12/29/how-to-install-debian-offline/ is what i followed and it even covered that
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09:38<trico>i have a directory mounted over ssh. when i run df -h, it says its 1TB size. when i run df -h on the computer that dir is mounted from, it shows the entire drive is only 33G. why is there a difference?
09:38<petn-randall>CyberBob: Sweet
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09:46<CyberBob>yup :]
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09:53<TobiX>trico: Because sshfs doesn't implement the syscall for df to work properly, see sshfs FAQ entry 10
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09:55<TobiX>trico: sshfs just returns 1TB every time...
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09:57<gnugat>Hello
09:57<trico>TobiX: thanks
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09:58<TobiX>trico: It might work if your server implements a specific sftp extension, but I don't know which servers support that...
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10:00<gnugat>I'm seeking some help. X isn't starting anymore. I assumed it was because of some of the packages I installed recently for virtualbox and they have disrupted my drivers. However, upon attempting to fix the issue by reinstalling my drivers (fglrx-driver) I noticed that apt couldn't find it in the repos. I'm running Debian Jessie amd64 and have the 'contrib' and 'non-free' repos added to my sources.list file.
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10:01<petn-randall>gnugat: If you're running jessie, you'll get support in #debian-next.
10:02<gnugat>alright, thanks.
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10:06<sebastiang93>Hi! Im trying to get wifi working on a fresh firmware-debian-netinst install. I wrote "lspci -nn | grep Network" in terminal, and found out i had "03:00.0 Network controller [0280]: Intel Corporation PRO/Wireless 3945ABG Network Connection [8086:4227] (rev 02)". This means my PCI-id is
10:06<sebastiang93>8086:4227
10:06<sebastiang93>but it's not on this list found on https://wiki.debian.org/DeviceDatabase/PCI
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10:07<sebastiang93>Does that mean im not able to install wifi on this laptop?
10:08<sebastiang93>i mean confirm that i AM able to*
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10:09<gsimmons>sebastiang93: You just need to need to supply firmware for use by the iwlegacy driver.
10:09<gsimmons>dpkg: tell sebastiang93 -about iwlegacy
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10:12<sebastiang93>Thank you very much, ill try figure out how ill get iwlegacy
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10:21<sebastiang93>I did the installation steps on Debian 7 "Wheezy" from https://wiki.debian.org/iwlegacy with no problems. Although when i type iwconfig it says lo no wireless extensions and on next line eth0 no wireless extensions
10:21<Maulkin>sebastiang93: That's fine.
10:22<Maulkin>sebastiang93: is your wireless working otherwise?
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10:22<sebastiang93>No. Only ethernet
10:23<TobiX>trico: You might want to install gesftpserver on your server to get a "better" sftp implementation...
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10:23<Maulkin>sebastiang93: Can you pastebin (paste.debian.net) the output of "dmesg | tail -590" ?
10:23-!-sebastia1 [~sebastian@x1-6-c4-3d-c7-39-82-26.cpe.webspeed.dk] has joined #debian
10:24<sebastia1>Sorry, accidently pressed CRTL+Z. Im not used to the hotkeys in the irrsi client
10:24<sebastia1>Im the same user as sebastiang93.
10:25<Maulkin>sebastiang93: ok, did you get my message?
10:26<sebastia1>Im afraid not
10:26<Maulkin>sebastia1: Can you pastebin (paste.debian.net) the output of "dmesg | tail -590" ?
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10:28<sebastia1>How do i paste it into a text file? The terminal doesn't allow me to scroll longer up
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10:31<Maulkin>sebastia1: I just need the last bit, that mentions your wifi driver
10:31<Maulkin>(Well, hopefully it does)
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10:33<sebastia1>Okay. It's up http://paste.debian.net/113965/
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10:36<Maulkin>sebastia1: Ok, do you see "wlan0" when you use iwconfig at all?
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10:37<sebastia1>No
10:37<Maulkin>sebastia1: If not, can you do "lspci -k" to pastebin?
10:37<sebastia1>only lo and eth0, which both says no wireless extensions.
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10:38<sebastia1>Yes. Againt im not able to copy everything, unless im not suposed to see my own command.
10:38<Maulkin>sebastia1: pastebinit may help too if you can install that
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10:38<sebastia1>the scrolling problem
10:39<Maulkin>So: lscpi -k | pastebinit
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10:39<sebastia1>lspci -k output here http://paste.debian.net/113970/
10:39<jepler>Hi. I noticed today that package "ghdl" is not in debian wheezy. (it was in squeeze, and it's in sid) I was unable to find out why even after grepping for ghdl in a few years worth of ftp-masters removal logs. can someone tell me where to find the explanation?
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10:40<sebastia1>Oh im sorry Maulkin. Scroll down to the bototm. It's simply me scrolling too fast, or something is wrong with the gui of the terminal
10:41<Maulkin>Hrm
10:41<jepler>hmm, missing build dependency on gnat 4.4
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10:42<sebastia1>This one is better for the eyes, Maulkin: http://paste.debian.net/113971/
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10:44<gsimmons>sebastia1: Uh, you seem to be using a different device (or system) now. What happened to the 3945ABG?
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10:45<sebastia1>Im afraid i don't know.
10:46<sebastia1>Does my pastebins indicate i switched OS? I installed this OS on the whole partition.
10:46<gsimmons>You entered the channel with a specific PCI ID, yet your latest paste says otherwise. Which is it?
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10:47<sebastia1>Oh. That's correct. I accidently pressed ALT-Z in the terminal using irrsi. And i was in such a hurry i just entered as the nickname, irssi found for me. Which were different for the previous nickname (sebastiang93)
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10:48<sebastia1>Or wait, that doesn't have anything to do with PCI ID?
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10:52<sebastia1>That's very weird. lspci shows 8086:0085 now.
10:52<sebastia1>to the network controller
10:53<sebastia1>like it changed from 8086:4222
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10:54<Maulkin>sebastia1: Can we have the lscpi -nnk ?
10:54-!-taruna [~umar@176.31.145.155] has joined #debian
10:54<Maulkin>(and also without the k)
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10:55<sebastia1>http://paste.debian.net/113977/
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10:59<sebastia1>this one is without the k http://paste.debian.net/113979/
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11:00<taruna>hallo
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11:01<gsimmons>sebastia1: That system uses a different driver. You would want to install the firmware-iwlwifi package, then reload the iwlwifi module (modprobe -r iwlwifi ; modprobe iwlwifi).
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11:03<sebastia1>But i only got one system running.
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11:04<sebastia1>Hm
11:05<sebastia1>how do i install the firmware-iwlwifi?
11:05<sebastia1>this one is without the k http://paste.debian.net/113979/i followd this guide https://wiki.debian.org/iwlegacy
11:05<sebastia1>Oops
11:05<sebastia1>I followed this guide https://wiki.debian.org/iwlegacy
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11:07<sebastia1>and then i checked iwconfig, and saw that lo and eth0 said "no wireless extensions"
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11:07<gsimmons>That's because you claimed to have a 3945ABG earlier (which you don't). So install the package and reload the iwlwifi module.
11:08<sebastia1>So im suposed to do the steps again on wiki.debian.org/iwlegacy or a different way?
11:09<sebastia1>oh sorry, i didnt't see you said iwlwifi without the numbers
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11:12<sebastia1>Thank you very much Maulkin and gsimmons. Im new to ubuntu, and i think i got so confused that i didn't realize the tiny numbers did the whole difference. Wifi is working.
11:12<sebastia1>debian*
11:12<sebastia1>Have a nice day :-)
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11:27<Guest4986>hello everybody
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11:28<knoppix_user>i'm looking some help with knoppix
11:28<mtn>!knoppix
11:28<dpkg>Knoppix is _not_ Debian. Seek Knoppix help in freenode's #knoppix. Knoppix is a live CD distribution which is <based on Debian>, useful as a rescue CD, to test hardware, and for situations where you have access to a computer but it isn't Debian. http://www.knoppix.com/ unofficial: http://Debian-knoppix.alioth.Debian.org/ <Debian-live> is the Debian equivalent for publishing live systems.
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11:29<knoppix_user>oh.. sorry
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11:30<knoppix_user>i thought asking here because it is based on debian
11:30<mtn>knoppix_user: no problem, but now you know better.
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12:15<CyberBob>anyone know how to get a higher res than 640x480 in settings -> display (xfce)?
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12:17<zarchne>CyberBob: Aren't the choices automatically populated from the detected hardware capabilities? So, make sure your monitor is on and connected and you're using the correct driver for your video card.
12:18<CyberBob>it was 1024x768 on squeeze/xfce, and this is a laptop
12:18<zarchne>(I mean, I've tuned XF86 and xorg config files, but not recently.)
12:18<SynrGy>CyberBob: provide /var/log/Xorg.0.log at paste.debian.net
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12:24<CyberBob>http://paste.debian.net/113991/
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12:27<CyberBob>might this be because i have the framebuffer disabled, it worked fine with squeeze though...
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12:30<zarchne>CyberBob: the thing that bothers me about that is that it's using VESA instead of chipset-specific driver.
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12:31<CyberBob>i put nomodeset in the kernel line would that be the cause zarchne ?
12:31<CyberBob>this is a laptop by the way
12:32<CyberBob>a really old one
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12:33<canaima>porno
12:34<zarchne>I don't know.
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12:39<uso>CyberBob: have you tried to move your xorg.conf file out of the way (rename it to something else) and reboot?
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12:41<zarchne>Yes, if you have an /etc/X11/xorg.conf you should get it out of the way, CyberBob.
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12:43<CyberBob>i either don't have one (it's not in /etc/X11) or it's somewhere else
12:44<zarchne>I wouldn't expect you to have one these days.
12:44<zarchne>And I think the log file would mention it, and I don't see it there.
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12:48<CyberBob>i'll try removing nomodeset from the kernel line and see if gdm comes up
12:49<zarchne>CyberBob: what does the output of "lspci | grep VGA" say?
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12:50<CyberBob>00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation 82830M/MG Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 04)
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12:54<ckosloff>I am having trouble with a new install of Jessie on Toshiba Satellite C75D-B7260, amd64...
12:54<Maulkin>ckosloff: Try #debian-next
12:54<ckosloff>Maulkin: been there
12:54<Maulkin>ckosloff: Well, that's the place you get support for Jessie.
12:55<ckosloff>Maulkin: what if they cannot help? what should I try?
12:55<Maulkin>ckosloff: Try emailing debian-user@lists.debian.org
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12:56<ckosloff>additional VGA monitor not recognized, card is VGA compatible
12:57<Maulkin>ckosloff: wait for an answer in #debian-next, or email the above with as much information as you can
12:57<Maulkin>Only stable is supported here.
12:58<ckosloff>Maulkin: will do, anyway if somebody wants to help they are welcome and we can even do it on direct chat
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13:17<blast007>ckosloff: there's also the option of using stable if you're not comfortable with testing
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13:33<SynrGy>CyberBob: most modern X servers require modeset. as for your chipset, the i915 driver should handle it
13:33<SynrGy>CyberBob: that is one old as dirt system, though :P
13:34<SynrGy>CyberBob: if booting without nomodeset gives you a black screen, you probably need a backports kernel
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13:35<SynrGy>CyberBob: not a debian bug, but this is probably an upstream (kernel) problem, not a debian problem: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1198287
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13:36<Kureyslii>EUZUBILLAHIMINEÞÞEYTANIRRACIM BISMILLAHIRRAHMANIRRAHIM
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13:37*ompaul doesn't alert Maulkin :-) oh wait
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13:38<SynrGy>CyberBob: well, 'old as dirt' is hyperbole, but 12 or 13 years old :)
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13:38<CyberBob>:P
13:38<SynrGy>CyberBob: so do you get a black screen without nomodeset?
13:38<ompaul>CyberBob: care to pastebin lshw for me
13:38<CyberBob>yeah it worked great on squeeze with a bit of tweaking to xorg.conf
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13:39<CyberBob>yes i get a black screen w/o nomodeset
13:39<SynrGy>from what i read from that ubuntu bug, it's unlikely it will ever work with a wheezy kernel
13:39-!-canaima [~canaima@190.198.126.62] has quit []
13:39<SynrGy>so try a backports kernel
13:39<SynrGy>there is success in that bug reported with 3.8
13:39<SynrGy>,kernels
13:39<judd>Available kernel versions are: experimental: 3.16-rc6-686-pae (3.16~rc6-1~exp1); sid: 3.14-2-686-pae (3.14.13-2); jessie: 3.14-2-686-pae (3.14.13-2); wheezy-backports: 3.14-0.bpo.2-686-pae (3.14.13-2~bpo70+1); wheezy: 3.2.0-4-686-pae (3.2.60-1+deb7u3); squeeze-backports: 3.2.0-0.bpo.4-686-pae (3.2.57-3+deb7u2~bpo60+1); squeeze: 2.6.32-5-686 (2.6.32-48squeeze6)
13:39<SynrGy>wheezy-backports kernel is 3.14
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13:40<SynrGy>!bpo kernel
13:40<dpkg>Newer kernels for Debian stable releases are available from the "wheezy-backports" repository. Ask me about <wheezy-backports> to modify your sources.list, then run «aptitude update». To install the current backported kernel: «aptitude -t wheezy-backports install linux-image-`uname -r|sed 's,[^-]*-[^-]*-,,'`». To list available backported kernel image packages: «aptitude search '?narrow(~nlinux-image,?origin(Debian Backports))'».
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13:43<CyberBob>SynrGy is using an older kernel safe?
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13:47<bink>hi, i'm exepriencing a huge shutdown time when powering off without unmounting a mounted ntfs partition first... i looked through the logs, but there seems to be no error. any ideas?
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13:48<ompaul>bink: what services are running - squid - nfs how big a partition etc are you reading that ntfs?
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13:49<ompaul>bink: also please define power off - is that the power button or the "shut down" icon
13:51<bink>ompaul: well, it's few days i switched to systemd, so actually i need to get a bit familiar with it, but as far as i can tell there aren't such services running
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13:51<bink>ompaul: poweroff as in "sudo poweroff"
13:52<ompaul>bink: run this /sbin/init 0
13:53<bink>ompaul: what's this intended to do?
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14:02<bink>ompaul: do you mean sudo !! ?
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14:08<bink>brb
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14:41<ompaul>bink: no do sudo -i if you use sudo then type exactly that
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14:56<alex_>il y a des francais
14:56<Maulkin>!fr
14:56<dpkg>Pour l'aide en francais, veuillez rejoindre le canal #debian-fr. Francophone users: for help in french, please go to #debian-fr.
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14:56<alex_>cc
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15:06<IronHideDK>Hey! i did a apt-get update && apt-get upgrade, rebooted my machine. and when i did domount i got : mount: special device /dev/mapper/storage does not exist what do i do to get it working again. not me who have set it up
15:07<IronHideDK>brb
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15:15<bink>ompaul: can i contact you in pvt?
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15:16<ompaul>bink: no - you have to keep it in the public domain to protect you from me giving you insane advice
15:16<bink>ompaul: it's not related to my issue
15:16<ompaul>bink: then no
15:17<bink>ok i'll keep it in public then
15:17<ompaul>thanks
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15:18<bink>i had asked what you were trying to let me do with that command, but luckily i figured out what it was going to do reading the man page, so i saved everything first
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15:19<bink>but what you just advised was a poweroff without telling the user requesting help to save his work at least
15:20<ompaul>bink: you were asking how to shutdown fast - I did make the wrong assumption that you were ready to go down right then
15:20<ompaul>bink: I think that will take the box down faster - also I'd do it from the CLI outside of X
15:20<bink>ompaul: i didn't ask how to shutdown fast
15:21<ompaul>bink: well you didn't provide logs as you intimated that there was no data in there
15:21<bink>i think my question was clear enough
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15:22<bink>ompaul: i was asking about the system having a huge delay when an ntfs is mounted. can you please tell me where did you read that i wan to shut down fast?
15:22<bink>*ntfs partition
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15:22<devil>bink: provide journalctl -b -1
15:23<ompaul>bink: the huge delay - overcome it shortcut to freedom
15:24<ompaul>bink: that's as simple as the translation of the issue was here
15:24<ompaul>and there I'll leave it
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15:24<ompaul>bink: actually devil is being smarter about it than I was
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15:25<Apollo>ompaul: easiest shortcut is just pulling the cable / fuse :p
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15:25<ompaul>Apollo: I was trying to umount on the way down
15:25<Apollo>totally overrated
15:25<ompaul>lol
15:26<ompaul>sync might be useful but hey I was in the land of get that box off so we can reset the power on the floor
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15:28<bink>devil thanks, but i get Failed to look up boot -1
15:28<devil>bink: well, -b means the last boot, -1 the one before that
15:28<bink>devil: yup i know
15:29<devil>no idea how often you booted since you have installed systemd or if your journal is set up correctly
15:29<bink>devil: i installed systemd days ago, and since then i booted lots of times
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15:30<devil>then your journal does not work as expected
15:30<bink>anywasys i already tried using debug log level as in the debian wiki for systemd
15:30<bink>but i get no useful info
15:30<devil>bink: does journalctl -b yield something?
15:30<bink>devil: yes
15:31<devil>strange enough
15:31<devil>bink: try asking in #debian-systemd, maybe it is a known issue
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15:32<bink>devil: do you think this is related to the ntfs issue?
15:33<devil>bink: it could well be. can you show your line for nfs in fstab?
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15:33<bink>devil: it's ntfs
15:33<devil>argh :)
15:33<bink>and i have no line for it in fstab
15:33<ompaul>you hurt him
15:33<bink>i manually mount it
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15:34<trico>how do i manually remove a printer from hp device manager? it didnt properly install and i cant remove it
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15:34<devil>well, like I said, ask in #debian-systemd, I have not touched ntfs in 12 years
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15:35<bink>devil: thanks, i'll do
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15:48<bink>anyways, IIRC, the long delay was happening with sysvinit too, so probably that's not systemd related. also i found this: http://forums.bodhilinux.com/index.php?/topic/10655-fix-for-slow-shutdown/ which roughly matches the date in which the issue appeared on my system
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16:17<dimitry7>hey
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17:57<zach>how do you install mods in minetest 4.10
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18:00<zach>how do you download mods in minetest 4.10
18:01<centrx>zach, Try finding a minetest channel or forum or search online.
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18:01<centrx>zach, It's a random program that no one here necessarily knows
18:02<zach>oh...
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18:10<knoppix_>hello people
18:11<knoppix_>its me again
18:11-!-beki [~beki@host86-137-115-115.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has joined #debian
18:11<knoppix_>i have a question
18:11-!-beki is now known as _duck_
18:11<knoppix_>about debian this time
18:11<devil>is that good or bad? :)
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18:11<Guest5022>why is debian known as the universal os??
18:11-!-_duck_ [~beki@host86-137-115-115.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has quit []
18:11<devil>because it runs most everywhere
18:12<devil>look at all the architectures, 12 when i last counted
18:12<Guest5022>aah
18:12<Guest5022>ok
18:12<Guest5022>thanks
18:12<devil>yw
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18:16<zarchne>... and it isn't limited to "server" or "workstation" or other use ...
18:16<centrx>It also includes more software than any other distribution
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18:20<oldlaptop>two, soon to be three different kernels
18:20<oldlaptop>we're losing actual hardware architectures though :(
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18:21<devil>is it a feature or a bug?
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18:22<devil>I think sometimes you have to let go of things to be able to move on
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18:24<abrotman>devil: like sysvinit ? :)
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18:24<devil>abrotman: good example :)
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18:31<zarchne>Someone could also make an argument about the licensing making it universal.
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18:33<zarchne>I would say that dropping architectures for which there are inadequate specimens is neither good nor bad, it just is.
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18:58<HaxAlot>Hey
18:58<HaxAlot>Whats up
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19:34<KNUBBIG>Hey, after a HDD failure in a mirroed RAID array (software), the system fails to boot. I resynced the raid and re-installed grub on /dev/sda via chroot from a rescue system. I just land in the GRUB console. Any ideas?
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19:38<zarchne>KNUBBIG: so you have grub in the boot sector, but it isn't able to find the OS?
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19:38<KNUBBIG>zarchne: I have no idea what's wrong, it just starts the grub console :<
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19:40<zarchne>KNUBBIG: were you using lvm?
19:40<KNUBBIG>zarchne: no
19:41<zarchne>I think it's going to be a series of commands like:
19:42<zarchne>set root=(hd0)
19:42<zarchne>linux /boot/vmlin<tab>
19:42<zarchne>initrd /boot/initrd<tab>
19:43<zarchne>boot
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19:44<KNUBBIG>zarchne: thanks, I'll try
19:44<zarchne>Which I'm typing partially from memory, partially from reading my local /boot/grub/grub.cfg
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19:48<zarchne>Obivously it will be critical to get the right root partition... may be more than just (hd0), KNUBBIG.
19:48<KNUBBIG>zarchne: should be md1, problem is, boot stuff is md1 and / is on md2
19:49<zarchne>you want the boot stuff.
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19:49<zarchne>so it may just be "linux /vmlinux..."
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19:50<zarchne>hopefully once you get your initrd set and you boot, it will be able to find the root fs for linux.
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19:54<zarchne>KNUBBIG: set root=(<tab> see https://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manual/html_node/Naming-convention.html
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19:56<KNUBBIG>zarchne: It seems that vmlinuz and initrd are found when I set root to md1, but booting doesnt work. /etc/fstab isnt found, as well as /sbin/init
19:56<KNUBBIG>No init found.
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19:58<zarchne>I neglected to mention that linux can have a root fs set on the command line: linux /vmlinux.... root=/dev/md2
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20:00<KNUBBIG>zarchne: wow, thanks! Would it be /dev/md2 or (md2)_
20:01<zarchne>there, /dev/md2
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20:03<KNUBBIG>zarchne: wow, thanks, it is booting (currently hangs at starting ntp server) What am I to do to fix GRUB now?
20:03<zarchne>"update-grub", I think
20:04<KNUBBIG>Assuming it ever boots correctly ...
20:04<KNUBBIG>Oh okay didnt think that would do it
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20:09<KNUBBIG>zarchne: after booting and update-grub, I land at the grub cmd again :/
20:10<KNUBBIG>(after rebooting, that is)
20:10<ckosloff>musca: I am looking at kernel linux-image-3.16--rc-amd64, it is not in sid, still in experimental and qualified as buggy, I think that I will hold off on that and wait until at least it makes into sid
20:13<KNUBBIG>can it do any harm installing grub on /dev/sdb as well? After the disk had been first exchanged, the system booted without recognizing the new disk (sda) is it possible that it booted from sdb and still wants to do so?
20:13-!-shirish [~quassel@0001358e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
20:13<zarchne>In fact, I would recommend grub-install /dev/sdb
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20:16<KNUBBIG>zarchne: finished without errors but after rebooting, Im at the console again
20:16<zarchne>Yeah... obviously I've been there.
20:17<zarchne>try "grub-install /dev/sda" also...
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20:20<zarchne>There was a time when I had a server (router, actually) which I left on all the time that got into this state so I would just type the grub commands whenever it needed to be rebooted.... More recently I have a file server that I completely rotated the original disks out that I did relatively quickly get running... but I don't necessarily remember what the final step was.
20:21<KNUBBIG>damn :)
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20:22<zarchne>did you try "grub-install /dev/sda"?
20:23<KNUBBIG>zarchne: i just did, finished without error, rebooting now
20:24<zarchne>KNUBBIG: rm /boot/grub/device.map
20:24<KNUBBIG>zarchne: wtf it's working
20:24<zarchne>then update-grub
20:24<KNUBBIG>zarchne: the thing I first ran was grub-install /dev/sda from chroot -_-
20:24<KNUBBIG>(before this all started
20:24<zarchne>maybe grub-install rebuilds device.map
20:25<zarchne>yeah, but something in the boot sector needs to know where to look for grub.cfg.
20:25<KNUBBIG>zarchne: It's booting correctly now, thanks so much!
20:25<zarchne>and update-grub only rebuilds cgrub.cfg
20:25<KNUBBIG>ah
20:25<KNUBBIG>okay
20:25<zarchne>okay, congrats.
20:26<KNUBBIG>zarchne: congrats would rather go out to you I guess :)
20:26<zarchne>you're welcome.
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20:34<KNUBBIG>now every network access from and to the server doesn't work
20:34*zarchne notes "rm /boot/grub/device.map" then "grub-install", or "grub-install --recheck"
20:34<KNUBBIG>this is keeps getting better
20:34<zarchne>KNUBBIG: I don't think that's a grub problem?
20:34<KNUBBIG>no :D
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20:35<zarchne>make sure your network card didn't come unseated.
20:35<KNUBBIG>ifconfig shows the correct values
20:36<zarchne>or the cable... where's that list
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20:41<KNUBBIG>zarchne: Mh I guess I'll call the data centre, not even booting a rescue system from LAN doesn't work
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20:45<KNUBBIG>zarchne: yup, they somehow removed the cable ^^
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20:46<zarchne>Eh-xcellent.
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20:50<Scabby>I have Wheezy installed and I want to have properly working MTP support for my Droid M phone.Now as it is the device mounts up but unless I am root I cant manipulate the file system on the phone.
20:51<Scabby>I am guessing from what I have read so far that the issues are probably with gvfs being older that desirable for my situation.
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21:28<cendora>Hi
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21:40<jathan>Hi cendora
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21:49<knoppix_>hello debian people!!\
21:49<knoppix_>whats going on???
21:49<knoppix_>hahah
21:50-!-knoppix_ is now known as Guest5034
21:50<Guest5034>what version of debian do you recommend me?
21:50-!-darkbasic [~quassel@niko.linuxsystems.it] has joined #debian
21:50<Guest5034>i am looking for some version extremely light weight
21:50<Guest5034>for a netbook
21:51<dvs>Guest5034: There's one version of Debian. It just depends what you put on the netbook.
21:52-!-ncl [~ncl@0001c83f.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:52<Guest5034>ok
21:52<Guest5034>what requirements wold you say debian needs?
21:52<Guest5034>would
21:53<Guest5034>i searched it online but different pages say different things
21:53<dvs>Guest5034: Minimum of 10GB of disk space.
21:53-!-gomex [~gomex@186.214.139.158] has joined #debian
21:53<dvs>not sure on the ram part
21:53<Guest5034>2 gb may be ok?
21:53<Guest5034>for ram
21:53<dvs>Probably less than that.
21:54<KNUBBIG>good night, thanks again for the help! :-)
21:54<Guest5034>what about processor?
21:54<dvs>Minimum is a 486.
21:55<Guest5034>so it can be as light weight as knoppix!
21:55<dvs>yes
21:55<Guest5034>great!!!!!!!!!!
21:55<Guest5034>i will install ir
21:55<Guest5034>it
21:56<Guest5034>thanks a lot man!
21:56<abrotman>dvs: you can keep that one
21:56<dvs>heh
21:57<oldlaptop>Guest5034: Debian is the 'universal operating system'
21:58<Guest5034>so?
21:58<oldlaptop>it is whatever you want out of it
21:58<abrotman>oldlaptop: we already covered this ..
21:58<sakax>Guest5034: use Debian Wheezy (stable)
21:58<oldlaptop>10GB of disk is *more* than you need, depending on what you want to do
21:58<sakax>it will run fine on netbooks with shitty atom cpu's
21:58<sakax>and 2GB ram is more than enough
21:58*dvs loves echos
21:59<abrotman>the sound of your own voice ...
21:59<oldlaptop>the base system will run fine on any 486 you pull out of the junk pile
21:59*sakax types: man echos
21:59<oldlaptop>No manual entry for echos
21:59<abrotman>oldlaptop: please .. we already went over this ..
22:00<oldlaptop>and how do you know this is the same person as the last Guest####?
22:00<Guest5034>great, because i wanna install it on a netbook. i has 160 gb hdd, 2 gb ram and a 2 core processor 1,6 GHz each
22:00<abrotman>oldlaptop: because I'm not an idiot and I can read?
22:01<Guest5034>thank u all people for your advices
22:02-!-KNUBBIG [~Fabian@p4FDB7F7A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:02*dvs loves giving out vices
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22:06-!-mentor is now known as Guest5035
22:07<oldlaptop>Guest5034: you *may* want to avoid the major DEs (KDE/GNOME) on that machine, otherwise it should be perfectly fine
22:07-!-Riviera [Riviera@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::10:b001] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:07-!-Guest5035 is now known as mentor
22:08*abrotman uses gnome3 with 2GB .. the real problem are the browsers
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22:10<sakax>better use xfce on netbooks honestly
22:10<sakax>or a window manager
22:11<jathan>I suggest you Debian Wheezy with Fluxbox as window manager
22:11*abrotman would reocmmend LXDE, but try them all really
22:11*dvs seconds
22:12<jathan>yes, also LXDE is a good option with less resources consumption than xfce
22:12<abrotman>and the interface is probably better for a newb than straight *box
22:12<jathan>in my opinion is the lightest Desktop
22:12<sakax>but is damn ugly... i would rather take openbox :)
22:13<jathan>jaja
22:13<sakax>it's*
22:13<dvs>uh oh
22:14<jathan>yes, LXDE at least has a panel for default
22:14<dvs>!start a dm war
22:14<dpkg>gdm is just shit!
22:14<jathan>lightdm rocks!
22:14<jathan>but no one dm sucks :)
22:14<oldlaptop>have you looked at xdm lately?
22:15<jathan>no
22:16<jathan>Do you like it?
22:16<Guest5034>debian supports all those enviroments??
22:16<Guest5034>great!
22:16<Guest5034>i'll go with the lighter
22:16<Guest5034>lightest
22:16<Guest5034>i mean
22:16-!-birch [~reca@cpe-24-193-60-123.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #debian
22:17<jathan>go ahead ;)
22:17<dvs>fvwm!
22:17<jathan>ratposion wm!
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22:20<oldlaptop>!start a wm war
22:20<dpkg>emacs bites!
22:20<mikegrb>awesomewm!
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22:22<jathan>If you want to try lightweight versions of Debian from live, give a chance to #!CrunchBang and WM Live:
22:22<jathan>http://crunchbang.org/
22:22<jathan>http://wmlive.sourceforge.net/
22:23<dvs>and get support elsewhere
22:25-!-liegruppe [~felix@x2f65c73.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #debian
22:25<abrotman>jathan: those are not versions of Debian
22:25<abrotman>please don't do that here
22:25<jathan>That is true
22:25<sleser>how do i add a txt file to destop
22:25<sleser>more like moove
22:26<abrotman>mv
22:26<jathan>but there are a great Debian derivative projects
22:26<abrotman>jathan: please, that's enough
22:26<jathan>ok
22:27-!-georgeeeeeeeee [~ge9oooooo@cpc19-ches4-2-0-cust40.9-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #debian
22:28<jathan>sleser: in a terminal type «touch /home/username/Desktop/filename.txt»
22:29-!-lastenga [~andres@cmodem190-5-196-079.emtel.net.co] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:29<Guest5034>that's one of the reasons why i'm thinking in switch to debian! there is a lot of support
22:29<Guest5034>that's not the case of, for example, knoppix
22:29<Guest5034>support in kanoppix sucks!
22:30<jathan>Why? Have you tried ask something?
22:31<Guest5034>yes
22:31<abrotman>that's not relevant here
22:31<Guest5034>knoppix forums and roms are very poor
22:32<Guest5034>sorry
22:32<Guest5034>you are right
22:32<sleser>jathan thanks
22:32-!-Guest4939 [~felix@x2f6acbc.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:32<Guest5034>i wont talk about it any more here
22:32<abrotman>!es
22:32<dpkg>Este canal es de soporte tecnico en Ingles para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en espanol, por favor ingrese a #debian-es con /join #debian-es tecleado en la linea de chat.
22:32<abrotman>thank you
22:33-!-krazystyles [~krazystyl@65-101-61-211.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #debian
22:33<jathan>sleser: I just read your part of «move» for that you can excute:
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22:34<jathan>mv /location_of_the_file.txt /home/username/Desktop
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22:40<jathan>Is there a channel where users interested in Debian could talk about it and other projects related to it?
22:41-!-krazystyles [~krazystyl@65-101-61-211.phnx.qwest.net] has left #debian []
22:42<abrotman>jathan: /list
22:42<abrotman>or /list *debian*
22:42<jathan>to tell to that potential users that here is not the right place to talk about it and will not reprimanded without an useful answer
22:42<abrotman>to talk about what?
22:43<oldlaptop>if you want to shoot the breeze, see #debian-offtopic or #moocows
22:43<jathan>concerns about Debian
22:43<abrotman>jathan: such as ?
22:43<abrotman>jathan: if oyu're less vague, you get better answers
22:43<jathan>the things that I was sharing to Guest5034 for example
22:43<abrotman>so you want to talk about Debian derivative distros?
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22:45<abrotman>jathan: ?
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22:46<abrotman>jathan: I suspect you want ##linux on irc.freenode.net
22:48-!-linuxuz3r [~linuxuz3r@2602:306:bd2a:a160:d12b:c90b:49fb:123b] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:48<jathan>when it could be useful for bring more users to Debian starting from their concrete interests, of course
22:50<jathan>Thank you for mention that channels ;) I hope when another user like Guest5034, we can give an answers like these.
22:50-!-magyar [~magyar@76.21.119.81] has joined #debian
22:52<jathan>I understand the purpose of this channel, but I do not have in that moment the words for tell him a suggest of other channels for telling him a way to try Debian with light graphical environments
22:53<oldlaptop>that way is to install debian with a light graphical environment
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22:56<jathan>Yes, is the best and correct answer, but he mentioned Knoppix, why I thought that he is exploring things ready and after learn how to set up natively in Debian
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23:01<jathan>I think that we need be more carefully in how we treat to the people in an IRC channel and in general that may not know some easy ways to start with Debian
23:02<jathan>but it is ok ;)
23:03-!-deZillium [~deZillium@2001:470:75b4:2::2000] has joined #debian
23:04<jathan>I just wanted to share my view from a more sociological perspective
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