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#debian IRC Logs for 2014-08-13

---Logopened Wed Aug 13 00:00:34 2014
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00:02<teslasmhd>:-)
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00:19<mpourhadi_>how can in install there packages ?lib32-alsa-plugins lib32-libpulse lib32-openal
00:21<pabs>!multiarch
00:21<dpkg>Multiarch allows you to install foreign architecture packages. For example, to allow i386 packages to be installed on an amd64 system: «dpkg --add-architecture i386 && apt-get update». See http://wiki.debian.org/Multiarch and <multiarch howto>, <multiarch failures>. For the unrelated installer that can install i386 or amd64, see <multi-arch installer>.
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01:11<cendora>I have a question regarding kfreebsd? what is the default desktop ?
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01:13<jm_>perhaps ask in #debian-kbsd
01:17<cendora>ok thanks
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02:11<nicola>http://www.mymovies.it/film/2013/ilcentenariochesaltodallafinestraescomparve/
02:11<nicola>http://www.eaglepictures.com/scheda-cinema/il-centenario-che-salt2-dalla-finestra-e-scomparve
02:11<nicola>http://www.ibs.it/code/9788845270239/jonasson-jonas/centenario-che-salto.html
02:11<nicola>Ho cercato "centenario che salt" (Max 3 U.R.L). BuDuScRiPt Search Engine Version 5.0 - By UDA'Software - [ http://digilander.libero.it/udasoft ]
02:11-!-nicola was kicked from #debian by debhelper [flood. Please use http://paste.debian.net instead.]
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02:31<cendora>is kfreebsd debian buggy ?
02:32<pabs>sounds like a question for #debian-kbsd, but you should include more details of the bug you found
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02:34<Rakieta>hi
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02:52<jenya>hello world!
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03:03<yossarian>so i've encrypted my external drive with LUKS. people said i should be able to use it in windows with freeotfe, but freeotfe is abandonware and it doesn't work on win7x64/win8 due to driver signing
03:03<yossarian>anything else i can use?
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03:08<rryoumaa>virtualbox?
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03:16<ljsoftnet>why does my wlan0 change from wlan10 to wlan 11
03:16<ljsoftnet>why does my wlan0 change from wlan10 to wlan11
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03:19<nappa>what's the simplest way to get debian running on a diskless server?
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03:23<nappa>hopefully without a bunch of funky stuff like setting up a dhcp server. i can use an SD card if it needs something to boot from if pxe isn't available
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03:24<nappa>i have a debian computer with a disk and i want it to be the master somehow, so the other computers i have get a read-only copy of that computer's /. is that possible?
03:25<babilen>ljsoftnet: When you do what?
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03:25<babilen>yossarian: Ask ##windows ?
03:26<olspookishmagus>someone know what's ip with "ngspice"? (check apt-cache policy ngspice after you do an apt-get update)
03:26<babilen>nappa: You could preseed the original installation and then continue via SSH, but it would be *much* easier to attach some screen to it for the initial installation if you have never done that nor have the infrastructure in place.
03:27<themill>olspookishmagus: what are you really asking?
03:27<olspookishmagus>themill: where's ngspice?
03:27<olspookishmagus>should I just try a little later?
03:27<babilen>olspookishmagus: IP typically refers to either intellectual property or an IP address. Not sure how that is related to the policy for some specific package.
03:28<themill>babilen: "what's up" I think.
03:28*olspookishmagus tickles babilen
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03:28<olspookishmagus>thanks :D
03:28<nappa>babilen: i will be able to attach a screen
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03:29<babilen>olspookishmagus: I still don't follow. Could you try to write another, more coheren and cohesive, message that contains an actual question we can understand?
03:29<babilen>*coherent
03:29<themill>olspookishmagus: ngspice is amd64-only
03:30<themill>(I believe you should be able to trivially rebuild the source package for i386 though)
03:30<babilen>I might also need more coffee or should activate my crystall ball :-/
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03:33<olspookishmagus>themill: thanks
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03:34<netinvman>hi,all
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03:34<babilen>olspookishmagus: A little more of: "I can't seem to be able to install ngspice. Here is the apt-cache policy output http://paste.debian.net/…. - Do you have an idea why that is" would have helped tremendously :D
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03:41<nappa>is it perhaps a good idea to boot the computers off an SD card and set the installed package list (i think the apt cache) to be shared (i don't plan to need to connect to the external internet with these computers, only to the local network)
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04:36<helmut_>hi
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04:38<hiva>helmut_: hi :)
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04:41<netinvman>hi,all please tell me a irc client worked in command-line mode
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04:42<jm_>netinvman: debtags can help
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04:43<grove>netinvman: irssi
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04:46<jm_>debtags grep 'protocol::irc && interface::text-mode'
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04:47<spippi>goodmorning world
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04:55<spippi>how can i join in this channel with tor setting?
04:56<themill>spippi: /query?
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05:45<rah>I'm trying to compile the latest mesa debian packages so I can get hardware 3D on my new Nvidia card
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05:45<rah>however, mesa needs llvm which needs gcc-4.8 which is a big pain
05:45<rah>in fact, there seems to be circular dependencies between glibc and gcc-4.8
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05:49<rah>gcc-4.8 build depends on libc6-dev-x32 (from glibc), glibc build depends on g++-4.8 (from gcc-4.8)
05:49<rah>I'm very curious as to how this can be resolved?
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05:52<jm_>why not simply use nvidia binary only driver?
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05:54<pabs>rah prefers free software
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05:55<pabs>rah: does it not work with llvm from the release you are on?
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06:06<rah>pabs: no, the build-deps require a later version
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06:07<rah> llvm-3.4-dev (>= 1:3.4.1-3) [amd64 i386 kfreebsd-amd64 kfreebsd-i386 armhf],
06:08<rah>in fact, there is no llvm-3.4-dev in wheezy
06:08<pabs>you could try downgrading it (edit debian/control) but it might be simpler to upgrade to jessie
06:08<rah>it only exists in testing/unstable
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06:09<rah>the llvm in wheezy is 3.0, which I'm guessing would be too old to "work" with a hacked control file
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06:10<rah>on the other hand I don't really want to upgrade to jessie yet :-/
06:10*rah wonders what would happen to mesa if llvm wasn't present
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06:14<pabs>I think only the llvmpipe backend being disabled, which probably you don't need if you only want nouveau
06:14<pabs>(llvmpipe is the CPU backend)
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06:18<rah>mmm
06:18<rah>I'm still curious as to how the glibc/gcc-4.8 circular dependency can be# resolved
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06:19<pabs>I guess with build profiles stuff but that isn't ready yet
06:21<pabs>personally I would just try the prebuilt stuff from jessie on a wheezy system
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06:57<jensp>Hey there. Apache is occasionally segfaulting and the way I read the backtrace the problem lies somewhere in libaspell. While apache has a -dbg package, aspell hasn't, can someone point me to the Debian-Way™ of getting the debug symbols?
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06:59<jensp>I mean I know, I could just rebuild the package, but I guess my core dump from apache wouldn't be of any use anymore, right?
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07:05<jm_>yes
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07:06<SynrGy>one would hope that it would continue to 'occasionally segfault' after the rebuild :) (otherwise, good luck with your heisenbug ... :p )
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07:08<jensp>SynrGy: kk, was hoping there is some magic -dbg symbols repo or something ;)
07:09<pabs>there is a plan for one https://wiki.debian.org/AutomaticDebugPackages
07:12<zumbi>pabs: you mean is not getting rotted?
07:12<pabs>SamB and waldi were planning on working on it, dunno how far they got
07:13<zumbi>that'd be great
07:13<jensp>ack
07:13<SynrGy>what mirror do you use?/win 5
07:13<SynrGy>bleh. uparrow fail
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07:16<jensp>SynrGy: do you mean me?
07:16<SynrGy>i mean. i fat-fingered the uparrow key to an earlier line before switching windows. sorry for the noise
07:17<jensp>ah ok
07:18<SynrGy>or it may have been the cat. yeah ... blame the cat
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07:28<thomasm>is in debian testing systemd enabled by default?
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07:31<stdh>thomasm: i think if you install gnome, you get it through gdm3
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07:33<stdh>libpam-systemd can no longer work with systemd-shim
07:33<stdh>so you get systemd-sysv
07:33<jm_>thomasm: unfortunately it seems so, but for testing ask in #debian-next
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07:34<thomasm>thanks stdh and jm_ for your info
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07:37<jm_>no problem
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07:37<rah>configure: error: LLVM is required to build Gallium R300 on x86 and x86_64
07:37<rah>now, this is going to get interesting..
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08:24<Gillian>To which channel do I have to go to ask about making a wifi hotspot with my laptop(I followed some guides but it doesn't seem to work for me)
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08:30<Gillian>To which channel do I have to go to ask about making a wifi hotspot with my laptop(I followed some guides but it doesn't seem to work for me)?
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09:24<rah>ARGH!
09:24<rah> libgl1-mesa-dri:amd64 breaks xserver-xorg-core (<< 2:1.14.3-5)
09:24*rah bangs head agasint wall
09:26<SynrGy>ah. not a shocker
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09:47*rah ponders upgrading to jessie
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09:50<rah>the choices are: upgrade to jessie, switch to Trisquel, or switch to gNewSense
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09:50<rah></contentious>
09:50<pabs>jessie changes daily, until November 5th then freeze
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09:51<pabs>gNewSense is based on squeeze IIRC so is unlikely to have a new enough mesa
09:52<pabs>not sure about Trisquel
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09:53<rah>pabs: indeed, if I were to switch to gNewSense, it would involve compiling lots of packages
09:53<rah>oh wait..
09:53<rah>:-)
09:53<rah>and what a strange coincidence:
09:54<rah>"I just dist-upgraded to Jessie, and voila - PID 1 was suddenly systemd. What a clusterfuck."
09:54<rah>https://lkml.org/lkml/2014/8/12/459
09:54-!-orel [~aurelien@105.77.76.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #debian
09:54<pabs>if you are using gnome or things needing systemd yeah that will happen. personally I like systemd, much better than the old boss
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09:56<rah>O_o
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09:56<pabs>the design is vastly saner than sysvinit
09:56<rah>o_O
09:56<babilen>rah: Feel free to not use it and install systemd-shim, but then systemd is quite nice and I like it. Also rants > /dev/null please
09:57-!-mentor [~mentor@87.254.66.75] has joined #debian
09:57<babilen>It isn't exactly news that Debian adopted it as default init system btw
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09:59<rah>babilen: just out of interest, do you use camel case to name your variables?
10:01<babilen>I have no idea what that would have to do with anything, but I typically adopt the style of variable naming that is suggested in the style guide or dominant in the file I edit. I don't particularly like CamelCase though and prefer something_like_this or-this -- more comments: #debian-offtopic please
10:01-!-ZIPY [~ZIPY@dslb-188-109-025-167.188.109.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined #debian
10:01<babilen>s/dominant/used/
10:02<rah>curious
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10:04<rah>https://lkml.org/lkml/2014/8/13/174
10:05<babilen>drop it
10:05<rah>the future awaits..
10:05*rah drops "it"
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10:06<babilen>rah: Seriously, this is a support channel. Take it to /dev/null or an offtopic channel. If you want to solve a specific problem then ask about this.
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10:21<ddvip>?
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10:23<musca>hello ddvip, you reached the debian support channel. Do you want to ask a debian support question?
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10:48<babilen>judd \o/
10:48*judd hugs babilen
10:48<babilen>judd: depends love
10:48<judd>Package love in wheezy/i386 -- depends: libc6 (>= 2.3.6-6~), libdevil1c2, libfreetype6 (>= 2.2.1), libgcc1 (>= 1:4.1.1), libgl1-mesa-glx | libgl1, liblua5.1-0, libmodplug1, libmpg123-0 (>= 1.13.7), libopenal1, libphysfs1 (>= 1.1.1), libsdl1.2debian (>= 1.2.11), libstdc++6 (>= 4.6), libvorbisfile3 (>= 1.1.2).
10:48<babilen>o_O
10:49<Apollo>that's a lot of dependencies for love
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10:49<SynrGy>not unconditional, huh?
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11:37<EmleyMoor>In what file is ejabberd's mnesia database stored, on a typical ejabberd setup on wheezy?
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12:06<sakax>how can I install Chromium v31 via apt-get?
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12:06<SynrGy>,v chromium
12:06<judd>Package: chromium on i386 -- squeeze: 0.9.14.1-2; wheezy-security: 35.0.1916.153-1~deb7u1; wheezy: 35.0.1916.153-1~deb7u1; jessie: 35.0.1916.153-2; sid: 35.0.1916.153-2; experimental: 36.0.1985.103-1
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12:06<SynrGy>you can't
12:06<SynrGy>not from debian
12:06<sakax>pls do not ask questions why... i have to in order to be able to complete a questionnaire of a retarded company
12:06<SynrGy>maybe snapshots, though?
12:06<SynrGy>if v31 was at one time in the debian archive, you might succeed with snapshots
12:06<sakax>are old versions always removed from the repositories?
12:07<SynrGy>yes
12:07<SynrGy>!snapshots
12:07<dpkg>http://snapshot.debian.org/ is an archive of almost all Debian packages uploaded since 2005, including those removed from the official archives because they were very buggy, unusable, broken, vulnerable or in some way non-free. This service replaces snapshot.debian.net. http://www.debian.org/News/2010/20100412
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12:07<sakax>thanks SynrGy
12:07<SynrGy>but then again, if dependencies are tangly, this is not guaranteed to work
12:07<SynrGy>also, would not be supported here ...
12:07<SynrGy>fine for doing your questionnaire, though, *if* it works
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12:08<sakax>nah... latest snapshot version is v9 :s
12:08<sakax>31 is not really that old honestly
12:08<sakax>i would have thought it was still in the repos
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12:10<SynrGy>sakax: what? no
12:10<sakax>i once downgraded a kernel update to the lower version
12:10<sakax>but i cannot remember anymore how i did it
12:10<SynrGy>something is wrong with your search ...
12:11<SynrGy>set S3WDB=C:\S3WData\Database\DB\scheduler.sqlite3
12:11<SynrGy>bah, wrong paste buffer
12:11<SynrGy>http://snapshot.debian.org/package/chromium-browser/
12:12<SynrGy>please note, the search form asks for the name of the source package
12:12<sakax>thanks, why did i not find these? :s
12:12<SynrGy>apt-cache show chromium | grep Source:
12:13<SynrGy>what you found was the game chromium (the binary of which is called 'chromium-bsu' to make less confusing)
12:14<SynrGy>source package names enter the archive on a first-come, first-served basis.
12:14<SynrGy>google made chromium *after* the game chromium existed and was in the debian archive.
12:14<sakax>i see :)
12:14<SynrGy>hence the browser source package had to be called chromium-browser
12:14<centrx>it was a good game
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12:24<sakax>aaarrrrggghh... it doesnt work (as it is supposed to work)
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12:24<sakax>those companies are the reason why i cannot quit smoking
12:25<sakax>http://tinypic.com/r/1zqzpya/8
12:25<sakax>seriously?
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12:25<centrx>sakax, Fake your user agent
12:25<sakax>http://i58.tinypic.com/1zqzpya.jpg
12:25<sakax>how centrx ?
12:26<centrx>sakax, https://www.google.com/search?q=chrome+fake+user+agent
12:26<sakax>thanks
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12:28<ytm>@seek shades
12:28<ytm>@search shades
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12:34<sakax>centrx: any idea where to find these settings? the options menu of the developers tools do not show this anymore
12:34<sakax>at least not in v35
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12:36<centrx>sakax, Might have to use an Extension
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12:42<sakax>haha profit :)
12:42<sakax>centrx: firefox still allows it to change it easily without addons :)
12:42<sakax>thank you
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12:46<rah>http://www.codekid.net/grafix/systemd_monster_small.gif
12:46*rah runs
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12:48-!-mode/#debian [-o babilen] by babilen
12:48<babilen>rah: Seriosuly, we've been over this before.
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13:08<sakax>heh
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13:20<slush>I'm trying to debootstrap an amd64 chroot on an i386 box, but in the end I'm getting "chroot: failed to run command 'mount': Exec format error" - may this be, because it doesn't run an 64bit kernel or could install something with multi-arch support help in this case? (I'm trying to make a clean install to boot in another box)
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13:29<heaumer`_>afaik, chroot needs host/vhost to have same arch, but chrooting x86 from amd64 may works with some linux's option for binary emulation
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13:31<petn-randall>slush: Is it just a i386 installation, or a 32 bit CPU? In the latter case it won't work with a chroot.
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13:38<SynrGy>slush: if your processor supports it and you have an i386 arch box, you may install an amd64 kernel, boot into it, and then you can run your amd64 chroot on it.
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13:38<SynrGy>slush: i do exactly this on a system i use to produce amd64 live images.
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13:38<slush>right, that's what I was thinking
13:38<SynrGy>slush: multiarch is irrelevant
13:39<SynrGy>please note some third-party software hates mixed amd64 kernel & i386 userspace ...
13:39<SynrGy>notably virtualbox
13:40<SynrGy>they will not support this configuration
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13:40<SynrGy>and i don't think even the debian package works with it.
13:40<slush>good to know, but that won't be an issue :)
13:40<SynrGy>k. cuz other than that, everything is normal after the switch
13:41<slush>petn-randall: It's an P4 fwiw
13:41<slush>I've ran 64bit kernels on it before
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13:42<petn-randall>slush: in that case install a 64bit kernel (wheezy i386 has them), boot into that and make your chroot as SynrGy explained.
13:43<slush>going to do that
13:43<slush>thanks
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13:45<petn-randall>slush: Ping us if you run into any problems.
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14:00<flips^>Hi! I have a computer that has trouble booting usb from those hybrid iso's dd'ed. I wass going to try the old way, where one did a dd of a small boot.iso or something and then copied the iso onto the usb drive. But now I can't find the instructions on how to do that anymore ...
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14:25<slush>well, that didn't worked out.. maybe I'm mistaken in remembering the capabilities of my cpu.. oh well, it isn't worth figuring out what would work, I'll just do it traditionally
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15:03<dimitry7>hey guys, I need a image of my debian 7. It has 16 Gb used ext4 on / and 200 MB for /boot. I want to dd /dev/sda. But the thing is that the / partition has 4 TB, how can I image it for only the 16 GB ??
15:03<dimitry7>thank you!!
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15:18<rryoumaa>dimitry7: dd would need to know how the fs works. rsync with exclude does not.
15:20<dimitry7>rryoumaa, but I need to make this image bootable... is it possible even using rsync ?
15:21<dimitry7>rryoumaa, it will be running as a Virtual Machine
15:22<rryoumaa>as far as i know, there is no special hidden thing in / other than grub
15:23<rryoumaa>and grub points to boot anyway
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15:45<dimitry7>rryoumaa, and the MBR?
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15:48<rryoumaa>grub
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15:50<dimitry7>rryoumaa, okay good, so I do Rsync... and then how do I create the debian.img file? :S
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16:01<midsandhighs>hello all
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16:02<midsandhighs>having some trouble with config of iptables if anyone is available to provide some assistance
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16:03<grove>!tell midsandhighs about ask
16:06<midsandhighs>I am running Deb 7.5 and trying to configure a ventrilo server.
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16:06<midsandhighs>I have the line -A INPUT -p tcp —dport #### -j ACCEPT
16:07<midsandhighs>however I am unable to connect properly. Do I need to accept unestablished inbound connections?
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16:25<grove>midsandhighs: Why are you hiding the actual port number? If your security depends on us not knowing you're doing things wrong and should fix that before going on. - Have you remembered a rule in the OUTPUT chain that accepts the return traffic?
16:25<Pitxyoki>midsandhighs: did you check if you have any blocking rules before that one?
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16:25<Pitxyoki>blocking/dropping
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16:27<midsandhighs>grove I'm trying to open port 3784.
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16:32<midsandhighs>I found my problem by tail -f syslog, using udp intstead of tcp
16:32<midsandhighs>thanks for help grove and pitxyoki
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16:44<iobound>hi, who do I have to bug to get an updated initramfs-tools that works with NFS roots?
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16:44<don_armstrong>iobound: what's the problem with NFS roots?
16:45-!-don_armstrong is now known as dondelelcaro
16:45<iobound>there is a 180 second delay during bootup because it doesn't understand the new /sbin/init symlink from systemd
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16:45<iobound>https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=750360
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16:47<iobound>it looks like there's even a patch in git somewhere but no package has been updated for months
16:49<dondelelcaro>iobound: yeah, it looks like the maintainer just needs to upload it; not sure why it hasn't been done yet.
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16:50<iobound>yeah, unfortunatly the situation left quite a bad first impression of systemd ;)
16:50<dondelelcaro>heh
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17:24<dimitry7>!tell dimitry7 about ask
17:25<abrotman>dpkg: tell dimitry7 about selftell
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17:37<CyL>Hi, I have this debian vm, eth0 is dhcp nat´ed to the external network, I just added eth1 which is static, directly connected to the host. Whenever I bring eth1 up, the machine is unable to resolv names anymore. Any hints?
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17:43<sakax>why is chromium still on v35?
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17:45<lostatwork>sakax: you can always check if backports has a newer version
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17:49<sakax>chromium has never been in backports
17:49<lostatwork>hmm i thought it was
17:49<lostatwork>I am most likely wrong though
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17:50<pmart>i'm having trouble connecting my bluetooth speaker. i can see it's address in hcitool scan output but i'm unable to "pair" it. there are many commands included with bluez package and i'm a bit lost. should i use bluez-agent or bluez-simple-agent (python script) for pairing.
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18:28<Beren>Hello. If I upgrade from wheezy to jessie, am I still capable of running older packages (i.e. the wheezy versions) at my discretion?
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18:30<abrotman>sometimes, wouldn't rely on it
18:30<Nemoder>Beren: you can hold back packages you dont wish to upgrade, but otherwise it may be difficult to run old versions unless rebuild them from source
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18:32<Beren>Can you tell me a little bit about the variables at play that could make it work in some cases but not in others? If not, you've already helped plenty :)
18:32<Nemoder>a simple application might not be any problem but say a window manager that requires different dependencies may be difficult
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18:33<Beren>I see
18:33<Beren>Thanks!
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18:34<abrotman>Beren: which packages are you curious about?
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18:36<Beren>None in particular yet, abrotman. I just want to get newer packages, but am uneasy about the possible instability of jessie
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18:51<dimitry7>abrotman, oookay
18:51<abrotman>Thank you
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18:58<Nemoder>how does alsa always manage to pick the wrong default sound device on new installs
18:59<abrotman>Didn't for me
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19:00<Nemoder>I just wish it would ask and remember instead of having to look up the configuration file options
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19:02<abrotman>remember how? it's a new install
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19:05<Nemoder>i mean remember after asking
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19:05<Nemoder>so that if the device order changes on reboot it doesn't get confused again
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19:09<jpleau>pulseaudio does that for me
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19:10<Nemoder>yeah i guess pulse would fix it
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19:16<jest>hi, what is the file path for gedit? i want to make it the default application for something
19:16<Nemoder> /usr/bin/gedit i should think
19:17<Nemoder>you might also consider installing galternatives program to manage default apps
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19:18<jest>what is galternatvies?
19:19<Nemoder>a front end to manage debian alternatives
19:19<oldlaptop>dpkg: tell jest about galternatives
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19:20<jest>awesoem, thx much
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20:09<wookey>anyone know why I have to run alsamixer to unmut the headphone volume and turn it up from zero, after every logout/restart of the desktop?
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20:10<wookey>something is resetting it. (I have pulse installed). on an x200s
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20:29<boa_>under what circumstances is it acceptable to only have a root account set up on a debian server?
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20:32<centrx>boa_, When it's a local machine with no external login access?
20:33<boa_>it is, it's only on my LAN
20:33<boa_>the only login access i plan to use is pubkey authentication
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20:33<centrx>Actually I take that back too
20:34<boa_>huh?
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20:34<centrx>boa_, You should only use root for tasks that require it, so you should have a non-root user account to anything else.
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20:36<boa_>centrx: even if the computer's main pupose is to be a workhorse for some computationally-intense applications that i offload from my main computer to it? i plan to disable it's internet access so it can only communicate with my main computer via nfs over ssh, and it will share the .deb files so it can stay up to date without external internet access
20:36<dualbus>is having too users really that expensive?
20:37<centrx>boa_, I don't see any advantage from not having a user
20:37<dualbus>just have an unprivileged user to do al the computations. root is just for administrative tasks
20:37<centrx>boa_, Whereas your computationally intensive app might have a bug that crashes the system vs just stopping the app
20:38<boa_>is it ok if the user is passwordless and i su to it when i need to?
20:38-!-chitchat [~guest@110-175-52-126.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:38<centrx>you mean if root is passwordless and you su to it when you need to?
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20:38<boa_>the second account is passwordless. (root will be passwordless too actually once i set it all up because i'll only access it with pubkey authentication)
20:39<centrx>You shouldn't need to use root much
20:39<centrx>In fact, your example case seems more like "can I not use the root account and only use a user account"
20:39<boa_>what would i use the other user for? afaik, the only interactive use i'll do is configuring stuff in /etc
20:40-!-Otter [otter@52D9331C.cm-11-1a.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:40<centrx>boa_, The app itself should run as a user
20:40<boa_>yes, that i already plan on doing
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20:40<centrx>So there's your user
20:40<centrx>It sounds like you won't be doing much at all on the machine, so yes you login and configure things as root
20:40<centrx>app runs as user
20:40<centrx>Then it runs by itself
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20:41<boa_>right now i'm curious about my own interactive use. 99% of the time i'll only need to edit configs or view logs, but i don't know if there's any advantage to adding another user, and only using su or sudo to get root
20:41<centrx>boa_, If you type rm -rf you'll be happy you weren't root
20:42-!-garrison [~smuxi@garrison.physics.ucsb.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:42<boa_>ah
20:43<sney>I spend a lot of time logged in as root, but I always ssh in as myself and then sudo -i. this is so I can have root ssh login disabled, and also have the root password be a ridiculous 32-character string.
20:43<sney>it's pretty painless but good security.
20:44<boa_>wouldn't pubkey auth be better security?
20:44<sney>not better than disallowing root logins. even if you use pubkey on ssh you still have passwords locally.
20:45<sney>not worse, I guess, though
20:45<boa_>oh i was thinking of not keeping passwords locally
20:45<boa_>because i'd only log in with pubkeys through ssh so bruteforce is impossible and i could su to any other user i needed.
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20:46<sney>arguably, you could get a mild DoS from bots trying to log in as root on your server if it has ssh access from the public internet, but probably not so as you'd notice
20:46-!-bitcrunsher [~androirc@dyndsl-178-142-093-112.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:47<boa_>it's on my LAN so my router is between that and the internet (although i don't discard the risk of my router being compromised)
20:48-!-djlocus [~anonymous@c-98-214-103-64.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #debian
20:48<djlocus>question
20:49<djlocus>in yall opinion do you think tor is safe?
20:49<boa_>yes, if you use it right then it's one of the best options for anonymity out there
20:50<djlocus>i understand because i know all the ways people can be tracked and traced , like plugin and installion of software wise
20:50<boa_>but it's not as good for privacy because the exit node can sniff your traffic if you don't use https (but the exit node still can't locate you)
20:50<djlocus>i dont use any software or scripts
20:51<djlocus>i understand
20:51<boa_>that's good. tor browser bundle is meant to not have too much scripts. but you should ask in #tor instead of #debian
20:51<djlocus>oh okay.
20:52<djlocus>well tor doesnt have a chat server
20:52<boa_>tor's chat is on this same oftc network
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20:58<ginko>can I somehow see the load (data sent / recieved) for a specific tab in iceweasel (iceweasel already running)?
20:58<centrx>ginko, Open up the developer console, to the Network tab, and reload the page
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21:02<ginko>centrx, thank you !!! genius :))
21:02<ginko>very cool indeed
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22:34<rryoumaa>is this pretty normal or is there a way to turn on write cache? "Write cache: disabled, read cache: enabled, doesn't support DPO or FUA"
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23:22<Cylus>I'm reading about setting up a mail server, and the page mentions a need to set up a server-side malware scanner. Is that even necessary? Can viruses and other malware even do anything unless the user manually marks them as executable?
23:22<sney>I maintain a production mail server, and it's pretty trivial to set up amavisd-new if you're using postfix as your mta, and mine catches a LOT of crap
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23:23<sney>bots are always emailing my users "copy of subpoena document.exe" and so on. it's pretty ridiculous
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23:24<Cylus>EXEs shouldn't even run though, so that doesn't sound like a threat to my non-Windows system.
23:25<Cylus>I'm completely new to mail servers, so I'd like to start simple.
23:25<sney>ah. if you're setting this up just for yourself, then yeah, it's not necessary
23:26<sney>amavis is nice though because it pipes your mail through both antivirus and antispam and does it pretty dang fast at that
23:26<Cylus>Yeah, just for me. Though to be honest, I think I'm in one of the blocked IP blocks, so I probably won't be able to get the mail server working anyway.
23:27<Cylus>Antispam would be nice. Does it have to be set up at the same time as the mail server, or can I set it up later, assuming I can even get the mail server working in the first place?
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23:27<sney>if you have the spare change, a $5 vps from digitalocean for instance is more than enough to run a full mail server for up to... I'd say about 50 users
23:28<sney>you can set it up later. I would recommend postfix over exim4 or sendmail or the others, since it's very well documented in regards to that stuff
23:28<Cylus>$5 per what though? Week? Month? Year?
23:28<sney>month
23:28<Cylus>Okay, postfix it is then.
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23:29<Cylus>I need to get my computer reset before I can start though. I'll have access to it tomorrow night for that.
23:29<sney>an old #debian regular wrote a pretty good howto for postfix/dovecot with mysql storage for logins, it's hosted on linode, hang on
23:30<sney>https://www.linode.com/docs/email/postfix/email-with-postfix-dovecot-and-mysql-on-debian-6-squeeze/ it's intended for debian 6 but still applies to wheezy as well, and probably testing too
23:30<Cylus>Does digitalocean offer reverse DNS? If I'm paying for access to an IP address, I'd like to be able to set the reverse DNS.
23:30<Cylus>Sweet. Thanks!
23:31<sney>yeah they do. they're a pretty decent service really.
23:31<sney>and their debian image is pleasantly unmodified
23:32<Cylus>Nice. I've tried to find VPN service a few months ago, but much of it went for $30 per month and didn't seem to have a feature list.
23:32<Cylus>Debian image? A VPN includes an OS?
23:33<sney>vps, not vpn. it's a VM on the internet that you rent.
23:33<centrx>Also https://www.workaround.org/ispmail/wheezy
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23:33<sney>an email server is pretty pointless if it doesn't have a static ip you can point a mx record at
23:34<Cylus>OH! I misunderstood. I have mild dyslexia, I think. I don't think that will help then, I'm trying to set up the server on my end. Thanks anyway though.
23:34<Cylus>My home IP address changes, but not too often.
23:35<sney>not quite the same. well, good luck anyway, you'll learn something
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23:36<Cylus>Yeah, I hope to. If this doesn't work out, I can find a service for mail, but I'd really like to host my own, both to learn more about it and to keep control of my own data.
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23:49<serpardum>What flavor of linux will actually allow me to run these programs on this game list for linux: http://www.lgdb.org/games?sort_by=field_statistics_nb_hits&taxonomy_vocabulary_3_tid=All&taxonomy_vocabulary_5_tid=All&taxonomy_vocabulary_7_tid=All&taxonomy_vocabulary_6_tid=All&taxonomy_vocabulary_14_tid=All&taxonomy_vocabulary_9_tid=All&taxonomy_vocabulary_34_tid=All&taxonomy_vocabulary_16_tid=All&taxonomy_vocabulary_12_tid=All
23:50<serpardum>I go through the program of downloading and installing for linux just to find that, no, wheezy sucks and doesn't have GLIBC_2.15 but some older antique version
23:51<mullein>i've been playing civ 5 for the past month or so (via steam) on wheezy
23:51<serpardum>And it's not just GLIBC or I would just update that. It turns out to be this file and that file and this other package
23:52<serpardum>You can get steam to work on wheezy?
23:52<serpardum>I couldn't find a download for it.
23:52<serpardum>Only on the other flavor
23:53<serpardum>let me see if I can't figure out someway to get this .deb package installed. hopefully right clicking wil ltel lme something
23:53<mullein>i just checked and i'm apt-pinning
23:54<mullein>so i have wheezy, but also jessie just for steam and its dependencies if they aren't available for wheezy
23:54<Nemoder>steam is packaged in debian jessie under non-free
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23:55<mullein>i have come across some games (via humble bundles) that had newer glibc version and wouldn't run on any flavor of debian, i think less of those games as a result :|
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23:55<serpardum>I will give you one guess what happened when I tried to install steam: "Error: Dependency is not satisfiable: libc6 (>= 2.15).
23:55<serpardum>When the )(*&*(*(&* is wheezy going to update it's libc?
23:55<mullein>wheezy will never update libc, it's stable.
23:55<mullein>only security fixes will be released for it.
23:56<mullein>jessie will become stable eventually, i don't know if it has a newer libc though
23:56<serpardum>So, wheezy has become obsolete. What's the new version of debian called then?
23:56<serpardum>So unt
23:56<SamB>serpardum: not obsolete
23:57<serpardum>Can it run new programs written for *modern* linux?
23:57<SamB>well, no more than any Debian release is, anyway
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23:57<serpardum>"But mom, he did it first!"
23:57<mullein>it's not obsolete if it doesn't have the same point release as $flavor_of_the_month
23:58<SamB>serpardum: so you can't install steam on stable
23:58<SamB>do they even claim to actually support Debian?
23:58<serpardum>2012-03-21: glibc 2.15 released.
23:58<serpardum>glibc 2.15 was released over 2 years ago.
23:58<serpardum>in computer terms, 2 years is obsolete
23:59<serpardum>I am happy that non of you wonder why people use suckage oses like windows and mac os. YOu have your answer right here. 2 years without an update.
23:59<serpardum>no, security fix, update.
---Logclosed Thu Aug 14 00:00:19 2014