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#debian IRC Logs for 2014-08-27

---Logopened Wed Aug 27 00:00:18 2014
00:00-!-GinoMan [~Gino@pool-72-94-39-83.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #debian
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00:17<canaima>hola
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00:23-!-quentusrex [~quentusre@70-89-155-57-amigo-vino-wa.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #debian
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00:31-!-sebastian1 [~sebastian@104.131.216.120] has left #debian [WeeChat 0.4.3]
00:37-!-merosovrana [~merosovra@70-89-155-57-amigo-vino-wa.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
00:39-!-Hubro [~hubro@198.213.164.82.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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00:40-!-gem [~nandaja@122.172.225.211] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
00:40-!-wd40s [~wd40s@24-148-2-211.c3-0.lem-ubr2.chi-lem.il.cable.rcn.com] has joined #debian
00:46-!-calisto1 [~calisto@r186-55-97-1.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:48-!-jptha [~jp@2a01:e34:ee71:82d0:1e6f:65ff:fed6:b51f] has quit [Quit: Quitte]
00:49-!-wd40s [~wd40s@24-148-2-211.c3-0.lem-ubr2.chi-lem.il.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:52-!-Hariharan [~harihare@122.248.163.2] has joined #debian
00:55-!-anonymous [~anonymous@201-4-207-121.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #debian
00:55-!-Hubro [~hubro@198.213.164.82.customer.cdi.no] has joined #debian
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00:56<anonymous>oie
00:59-!-freedomrun [~freedomru@BSN-176-178-161.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has joined #debian
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01:01-!-Blue_Hat [~TwinKam20@184.170.36.14] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
01:02-!-xjuan [~xjuan@host50.186-124-175.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:05-!-jalalsfs [~jalal@0001afc5.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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01:06-!-hubutm20 [~hubutm20@cablelink-86-127-180-251.rdstm.ro] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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01:09-!-superusr [~tf@cm56-159-73.liwest.at] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
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01:14-!-merosovrana [~merosovra@70-89-155-57-amigo-vino-wa.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #debian
01:14-!-pamaury_ [~quassel@vit94-1-82-67-248-70.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #debian
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01:18-!-tetrapovicc [~trifyl@AToulouse-652-1-73-75.w2-6.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #debian
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01:35-!-oxenfrosch [~oxenfrosc@f050061082.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #debian
01:35-!-vrkalak [~vrkalak@172.56.8.194] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
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01:37-!-yashi [~smuxi@p654785.hkidff01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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01:39-!-Schnabel- is now known as Schnabeltier
01:42-!-wd40s [~wd40s@24-148-2-211.c3-0.lem-ubr2.chi-lem.il.cable.rcn.com] has joined #debian
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01:46-!-swaechter [~quassel@cable-static-171-142.muttenznet.ch] has joined #debian
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01:51-!-rueh [~rueh@dynamic-80-242-197-152.catv.glattnet.ch] has joined #debian
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02:41-!-helmut_ [~helmut@chello084113024169.5.12.vie.surfer.at] has joined #debian
02:42-!-oxenfrosch [~oxenfrosc@f050061082.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
02:42<helmut_>hi
02:42-!-wd40s [~wd40s@24-148-2-211.c3-0.lem-ubr2.chi-lem.il.cable.rcn.com] has joined #debian
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03:06-!-debian is now known as Guest594
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03:52<Brigo>grummund, no it should be visible con lsusb or lspci.
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04:27<Ennea>hello. coming here because i'm not sure where else i should look for help. i'm running a debian server, and on it, postfix and dovecot for mail stuffs. last night, i received a few "undelivered mail" mails from my very own server, regarding mails i've never sent. which makes me believe that someone has gotten the password to that address somehow. i'd like to see what they've sent, but i'm not sure how. found all the logins in mail.log, but i have a really
04:27<Ennea>hard time deciphering what's in there besides that
04:28<Ennea>also, all of those logins are listed with "sasl_method=LOGIN" in the log, whereas none of my own are. what exactly does that mean?
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04:37-!-mode/#debian [+l 636] by debhelper
04:37-!-daniel is now known as Guest600
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04:39<Ojo>anyone willing to help me with a quick simple problem?
04:39<Ojo>I run a gameserver whose process I moved into the background with the & at the end when I started it - how do I get it back into the foreground and then again back to the background?
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04:44<mgv>Ojo: fg, C-z, and bg?
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04:44<Ojo>Not sure what you mean
04:44<mgv>fg moves it to the foreground, C-z moves it to the background and pauses it, bg resumes it in the background
04:44<mgv>see help fg and help bg for more information
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04:44<Ojo>ah, so fg id ?
04:44<Ojo>would that be the format?
04:45<mgv>yup
04:45<mgv>or fg without argument if it is the only job
04:45<mgv>again, see help fg and help bg
04:46<Ojo>thank you
04:46<mgv>you're welcome
04:46<Ojo>it says unknown command when I type bg
04:46<Ojo>obviously now all commands go into the gameserver console
04:47<mgv>do a C-z
04:47<Ennea>ctrl-z to halt the process first
04:47<mgv>that is Ctrl + z
04:47<Ennea>then use bg
04:47<Ojo>thx
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04:47<Ojo>worked thx
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04:48<ao2>hi, is there an offical page which tracks packages removed from the Debian archive?
04:48<gsimmons>dpkg: tell ao2 -about removed
04:51<ao2>gsimmons, thanks
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05:45<ginko>non-debian specific problem I guess -> mouse sensitivity changes in relation to virtual screen size (second additional screen -> different sense) how to solve?
05:45<ginko>xset m 0 does not the trick
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05:46<ginko>really annoying :D
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06:30<teslasmhd>>.>
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06:37<Infiltrator>I just installed Debian 7.6 on an HP ProBook 4330s with encryption (first time) and am getting what appears to be display corruption on boot. I do not see the LUKS prompt for a passphrase; but instead see the HP logo with black dots running across half the screen.
06:38<Infiltrator>I suspect that this has to do that the BIOS does a "graphical" thing on boot.
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06:40<Infiltrator>Is there a way to tell LUKS to flush the screen before displaying the prompt?
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07:03<Grenville>hello all, I'm a bit of a neewbie and a muppet. I'm running xfce on debian wheezy. I'd like to be able to shutdown the computer without using my password, and to enable the shutdown button both for my account and my guest account. It seems I have to edit my sudoers file, but the man pages went over my head. I was hoping someone might hold my hand through the process.
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07:19<ompaul>you shouldn't have an account called guest - if you need to do that kind of thing consider having visitor01 or something
07:19<ompaul>or notgrenville or something else
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07:20<ompaul>when you log out you can choose shutdown from the menu
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07:20<ompaul>I'm surprised if you can't choose a shutdown option within xfce but I don't use it
07:21<ompaul>consider running kdm or gdm to give you options on the log on screen if you are not doing so already
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07:21<bdog7>Grenville, you might need to use a login/display manager to be able to shutdown, such as lightdm or slim, i prefer slim
07:21<Grenville>hello, why shouldn't I have an account called 'guest'?
07:22<sebas>ompaul: there is one (shutdown button) but sometime it only logs out if another user is logged
07:23<ompaul>Grenville: because guest is a bad name it is something if you have weak security could be easily attacked
07:23<ompaul>it's a common name
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07:23<ompaul>ergo call it something smarter
07:23<Grenville>got you. Thank you.
07:23<ompaul>sebas: kde offers you the shutdown anyway
07:23<ompaul>sorry kdm
07:24<Grenville>is changing an account name possible, or do I delete it and restart?
07:24<ompaul>it is possible but better to do it this way
07:24<ompaul>add a new user
07:24<ompaul>delete the new users home directory
07:24<ompaul>mv guest new-user
07:25<sebas>yes xfce too, and sometime it works, and on another machines, with the same setting, it just log you out (but at that time you have the "shut down" button from lightdm, so I don't care a lot)
07:25<ompaul>mv /home/guest /home/new-user
07:25<adc>make sure to change the owner+group on the folder and its contents, though
07:25<ompaul>chown -R new-user:newuser /home/new-user
07:25<adc>exactly
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07:27<Ennea>kinda regarding users.. i have created a new user on my server and disabled the root user
07:27<backbox>fg
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07:27<Grenville>so, I setup a new account. Delete /home/newaccount. Change the name of the guest''s home folder, then put it where the new account's folder was.
07:27<Ennea>that new user also has an ssh key assigned. i'm still a bit afraid of disabling password auth, though, in case i ever lose the key
07:28<backbox>okk
07:28<Ennea>any tips on safely storing the key?
07:28<ompaul>I don't disable root, I just disable the ability of root to log on at a console
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07:28<backbox>whst ?
07:28<Grenville>what does the chown command do?
07:28<ompaul>Ennea: have a backup user and key
07:28<Ennea>ompaul, sorry, that's what i meant
07:28<ompaul>Grenville: change ownership
07:28<Ennea>Grenville, change the owner
07:28<Ennea>hm, seems like a good idea
07:29<ompaul>Ennea: well at some point you need to be able to walk to the console and log on
07:29<Grenville>ok. so newuser has permission on the folder.
07:29<ompaul>Grenville: that's the idea
07:29<Ennea>walk?
07:29<Grenville>thank you.
07:29<ompaul>drive and walk
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07:29<Ennea>no chance
07:29<ompaul>or have someone else
07:29<Ennea>my server is sitting in another country :p
07:29<ompaul>well then you have a console of some sort
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07:30<Ennea>i do, obviously
07:30<ompaul>if you lose everything you can get in as the master owner of the box if you lose that
07:30<ompaul>then hard luck
07:30<Ennea>hm
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07:30<Ennea>well, a backup user and key should suffice
07:30<ompaul>ergo backups
07:30<Ennea>yea
07:30<Ennea>it's just.. critical information
07:30<Ennea>i'm paranoid
07:30<Ennea>can't have enough backups for stuff like that
07:31<Ennea>but i don't want unsafe backups either
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07:31<ompaul>it is not a matter if you are paranoid, it is a matter of if you are paranoid enough in the right way
07:31<Grenville>one more question: do I need to then delete the 'guest account'?
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07:31<ompaul>you do it based on what you are defending
07:31<Ennea>hm
07:31<Ennea>never thought of it that way
07:31<ompaul>if it is worth $1 then you don't spent €10 on securing it
07:32<ompaul>scare yourself
07:32<ompaul>run this
07:32<ompaul> if you have https nmap --script ssl-enum-ciphers -p 443 your.domain.name
07:32<ompaul>if you don#t just a simple
07:33<ompaul>nmap -sC -sV your.machine.name will scan 1k ports
07:33<ompaul>then if you opened anything special run it again like this
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07:33<ompaul>nmap -sC -sV your.machine.name -p portnumber or 1-100 for a range as you need
07:33<Ennea>what will that yield? i know nmap is a port scanner, but what does that do, specifically?
07:33<ompaul>:-)
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07:33<ompaul>go on you need to know
07:34<Ennea>i'd rather you tell me first :p
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07:34<ompaul>the first one will tell you what ciphers are there
07:34<Ennea>also, i don't have nmap installed here, i'm at work
07:34<ompaul>the second one will probe the rest of the box for other servers
07:34<backbox>34 90 34
07:34<ompaul>and then you can run cipher stuff at it
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07:34<ompaul>backbox: did you really mean that or are they lotto numbers
07:34<Ennea>why would i want to do that, though?
07:35<ompaul>Ennea: you said paranoid
07:35<backbox>sound spectrem
07:35<ompaul>that's step one in understanding your attack surface - where someone can get you from
07:35<Ennea>i'm not paranoid in that direction, i guess
07:35-!-oitofelix [~oitofelix@0001b8b6.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
07:35<ompaul>people don't do these things enough
07:35<ompaul>and I kow this
07:35<Infiltrator>Is there a way to tell LUKS to flush the screen before displaying the prompt? I am getting the HP boot logo with black dots all over it instead of the expected prompt window.
07:35-!-vibora [~vibora@srv.cobrasbyte.de] has joined #debian
07:35<ompaul>I don't do it enough either
07:36<Ennea>i suppose you've got a point
07:36<backbox>what point >
07:36<Ennea>i'll give it a shot once i'm home
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07:37<matteo>.xchat2/budus.so
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07:38<Ennea>ompaul, any other tips regarding security?
07:38-!-dotix [~dot@82.208.133.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
07:38<ompaul>Ennea: subscribe to debian security
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07:38<Ennea>also, since we're talking now, and it's even about security, let me bring your attention to my previously mentioned issue
07:38<Ennea>10:25 <Ennea> hello. coming here because i'm not sure where else i should look for help. i'm running a debian server, and on it, postfix and dovecot for mail stuffs. last night, i received a few "undelivered mail" mails from my very own server, regarding mails i've never sent. which makes me believe that someone has gotten the password to that address somehow. i'd like to see what they've sent, but i'm not sure how. found all the logins in mail.log, but i
07:38<Ennea>have a really
07:38<Ennea>10:25 <Ennea> hard time deciphering what's in there besides that
07:38<Ennea>10:26 <Ennea> also, all of those logins are listed with "sasl_method=LOGIN" in the log, whereas none of my own are. what exactly does that mean?
07:38-!-Ennea was kicked from #debian by debhelper [flood. Please use http://paste.debian.net instead.]
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07:39<Ennea>that's a pretty stupid anti flood script
07:39<ompaul>no
07:39<Ennea>well.. it's very sensitive
07:39<Ennea>did you get all of what i pasted?
07:39<ompaul>mostly I want to see the guts of a mail with the full headers
07:40<Ennea>one of the "undelivered mail" mails?
07:40<ompaul>yeap paste.debian.net
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07:42<Ennea>ompaul, http://paste.debian.net/hidden/1381a082/
07:42<Ennea>censored mails and domains
07:43<ompaul>so that's all the data that helps figure out what happened
07:43<petn-randall>Ennea: The bot is not stupid, it just kicks people who fail to read the topic.
07:44<Ennea>let's just say sensitive
07:44<ompaul>petn-randall: I got that idea across with one word :-P
07:44<Ennea>you have a valid point, sorry
07:44<Ennea>i consider a flood to be something else, however
07:44<Ennea>ompaul, is it really all the data to figure it out?
07:45-!-joj [~weechat@00019d78.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
07:45<ompaul>Ennea: I'm going to suggest you got joe jobbed
07:45<ompaul>Ennea: look up joe job
07:45-!-mberends [~mberends@host-242-166.pubnet.pdx.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
07:45<ompaul>a few little settings about fqdn will help you stop some stuff
07:46<ompaul>greylisting more
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07:47<Ennea>if it was spoofing, what about the logins i found in the mail log?
07:48<ompaul>the less you display the less I know
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07:48<ompaul>you can pm it if you want
07:48<grepawk>http://paste.debian.net/117836/ ... can someone help me with a cpan problem please? it might just be a @INC issue...
07:48<Ennea>well, you only asked for a mail ;p i will, give me a second
07:48<ompaul>Ennea: I'm going to go to lunch - I'm starving
07:49<petn-randall>ompaul: urbandictionary is NSFW on "joe job", I hope you meant something else ... >_>
07:49<ompaul>petn-randall: I think you might include email
07:49<ompaul>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_job
07:49<Ennea>any idea when you'll be back?
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07:52<_flip>is joe job just a spoofed email?
07:52<_flip>if you're running an open relay?
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07:59<ompaul>na it's forged reply to
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08:06<_flip>ah
08:06<_flip>thanks
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08:53<jensp>Hey there, I have a question regarding how packages migrate from testing to stable. #706680 fixes a very annoying issue for me, but a fix has only been uploaded to testing (in April), is there an estimate for when such a bugfix hits stable?
08:54<jensp>Or do I have to file a seperate bug for having a package marked stable?
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08:54<ompaul>jensp: it depends was it a security fix
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08:55<maxb>Packages don't migrate to stable individually
08:55<jensp>ompaul: No, just a regular bugfix.
08:56<ompaul>jensp: then unless the package is truely bad in many ways it is unlikely - so your first question should be is there a backport, hardly ideal but it might help
08:56<maxb>Roughly every two years, the Debian project as a whole does a release, which involved moving stable to oldstable, and then copying the existing testing to re-create stable
08:56<jensp>ompaul: Kk, I'll add it to our own repo then, thanks
08:57<jensp>maxb: Yeah, I got that, but aren't there point releases with new release media in between? Do these only fix security bugs?
08:57<ompaul>yes
08:58<jensp>Ahh ok, thanks. I'm fairly new to Debian land and am still a little confused with the terminology.
08:58<ompaul>jensp: it has to be a pretty special case to be something outside of security to get in there - something nasty in the kernel might be a good reason but you're looking for that level of issue
08:58<ompaul>jensp: that way the bundle that is the release tends to keep working
08:58<ompaul>you have a small delta to manage
08:58<ompaul>and you keep tracking along
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09:48<_flip>ignore -channels #debian * JOINS PARTS QUITS NICKS
09:48<_flip>whoops
09:49<ompaul>disk is cheap don't do that
09:49<_flip>haha
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09:51<shazaum>nice
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09:56<peter1138>Tell that to my servers :(
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11:09<keep>oio
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11:11<Apollo>!ask
11:11<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
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11:29<Sebastian>Hey there, I'm trying to install a box remotely (after starting the first steps of the installation manually and enabling the remote ssh install option)
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11:29<Sebastian>I'm using screen to connect to the installer, but the output is pretty garbled
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11:30<Sebastian>I'd appreciate any pointers into possible workarounds :)
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11:31<petn-randall>Sebastian: Which SSH client are you using?
11:32<Sebastian>OpenSSH_6.0p1 Debian-4+deb7u2
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11:33<petn-randall>Sebastian: If you don't use screen, is the output ok?
11:33<Sebastian>yes
11:34<petn-randall>Sebastian: So you're ssh'ing from a Wheezy box to other box where you want to install Debian?
11:34<Sebastian>yes
11:36<petn-randall>Sebastian: In what way is it garbled? i.e. is the screen making it linewrap, or does it look like the curses interface is using the wrong characters?
11:36<Brigo>Sebastian, characte encondig?
11:36-!-magyar [~magyar@76.21.119.81] has joined #debian
11:36<Sebastian>there are linewraps, a bunch of question marks, and some text appears/disappears as I resize the window
11:37<Sebastian>as I select options they appear on a different portion of the screen again sometimes, too
11:37<Brigo>Sebastian, please check the locales inboth systems
11:37<Sebastian>how do I check the locale on the box to be installed?
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11:37<Brigo>locale command
11:37<Sebastian>(the installer is currently erasing disks)
11:38<Brigo>did you try to reset and/or clear the screen?
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11:38<Sebastian>^l doesn't help, if that is what you mean?
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11:39<Brigo>it does not clear the screen or yes, it clears the screen but the problem persist?
11:39<Sebastian>it does not clear the screen
11:39<Sebastian>it appears to do nothing
11:40<Brigo>mm, weird.
11:40<Sebastian>yeah, I thought so too. I think I'll just walk over to the box and do it manually
11:40<Sebastian>but thanks for all your input
11:40<Sebastian>I thought maybe it was an easy fix :)
11:40<Brigo>well, check first the locales, it is easy to fix.
11:42<Sebastian>can I background the disk erase stuff to get a shell somehow without interrupting it?
11:42<Brigo>Sebastian, you can try tmux O:)
11:43<Brigo>Sebastian, try to connect to ssh in other teminal
11:43<Sebastian>it won't let me connect after the first connection
11:43<Sebastian>maybe that's an issue on my end tho, checking
11:43<Brigo>are you sure you are installing wheezy? :D
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11:44<Sebastian>yes, that I am sure :P
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11:58<Sebastian>it looks a lot better with tmux
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11:58<Sebastian>not perfect, but perfectly usable :)
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12:11<teslasmhd>>.>
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12:37<tony77>Hi guys
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12:37<tony77>my migrated p2v debian server says: unpacking initramfs and freezes there.... what can I do_
12:37<tony77>i tried rebuilding initramfs ... no success
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12:39<tony77>does anyone know how boot repair disk rebuilds init ramfs? because it was once solve that way
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12:52<petn-randall>tony77: Boot from a live medium, mount the root filesystem, chroot into it and run 'update-initramfs -k all -u'.
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12:57<sobersabre>hi.
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12:58<sobersabre>I'm on wheezy, pulseaudio/alsa configuration or adjacent problem: when decreasing volume the volume slider shows 1/3 of the maximum, and is easily audible. next press for voldown gets me to silence. as if the thing needs to be recalibrated.
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12:59<sobersabre>The problem displays only with usb headset. the analog speakers volume control seems ok.
13:00<sobersabre>headset shows itself as: Bus 001 Device 002: ID 0d8c:000c C-Media Electronics, Inc. Audio Adapter
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13:05<tony77>petn-randall, okay perfect!
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13:09<tony77>petn-randall, the same... :S
13:09<tony77>freezes at loading inital ram disk
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13:12<valdyn>sobersabre: that seems to be some widespread usb headset issue, I can work around it be setting the headset to iec958
13:12<petn-randall>tony77: remove "quiet" from the grub command line and check what is says. It might be timing out because it's not finding the root filesystem.
13:12<sobersabre>thanks, valdyn. how do you do that?
13:12<valdyn>sobersabre: or you can set flat-volumes = no
13:13<valdyn>sobersabre: ( in pulse/daemons.conf )
13:13<sobersabre>in my user's .pa file ?
13:13<valdyn>sobersabre: i dont use any user .pa file. I guess that would do the same
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13:14<valdyn>sobersabre: the output mode i set in the configuration tab in pavucontrol
13:14<tony77>petn-randall, great!! let me do it
13:14<valdyn>sobersabre: its not possible with all headsets, just some
13:14<sobersabre>valdyn: Trying... :)
13:14<sobersabre>hoping for the best.
13:14<valdyn>sobersabre: but the flat-volumes = no should work for all
13:15<valdyn>sobersabre: see what that does, it only incidentally can be a workaround for your issue
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13:16<sobersabre>valdyn: iec958 trick improved the situation: now I can get to silence on 10% of the slider.
13:16<sobersabre>COOL
13:16<sobersabre>now let's set flat-volumes.
13:16<sobersabre>I understand I'd have to kill the daemon. right ?
13:16-!-zerick [~eocrospom@190.187.21.53] has joined #debian
13:16<valdyn>sobersabre: I think so
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13:20<tony77>petn-randall, I removed quiet. it hangs at unpacking initramfs :S
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13:27<sobersabre>valdyn: very nice.
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13:27<sobersabre>flat volume didn't do the real trick.
13:27<sobersabre>iec958 did, and my headset works with it.
13:27<sobersabre>:)
13:28<sobersabre>THANKS!!!
13:28<shirish>hi all, I'm trying to find a word which escapes me.
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13:28<sobersabre>shirish: what do you mean ?
13:28<shirish>sobersabre: give me a moment, will try to explain.
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13:28<sobersabre>just be concise, please. and not off-channel.
13:29<shirish>I'm sure you are all familiar with the copy and paste function that we use
13:29<shirish>we take some text/data from some place (say some web page) and paste the text from there to some document.
13:30<shirish>that text that we have copied remains in the memory, right.
13:30<shirish>that text remains in memory, right
13:30-!-GNUwalrus [~GNUwalrus@0001f46e.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
13:31<shirish>till we don't copy some other text and paste it somewhere else.
13:31<shirish>what is the text in memory called here ? is it cache or something else ?
13:31<shirish>sobersabre: ^
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13:32<sobersabre>depends on the lingo, usually it's called "clip board".
13:32<shirish>sobersabre: thanx, that's the word I was looking for 'clip board'
13:32<sobersabre>and there are so-called "clipboard" managers like glipper, kupfer, klipper, etc.
13:33<shirish>sobersabre: is there a command to clear the clipboard or do we need to use clipboard managers ?
13:33-!-Blue_Hat [~TwinKam20@184.170.36.14] has joined #debian
13:33<valdyn>shirish: why do you want to clear the clipboard?
13:33<shirish>valdyn: because sometimes it dumps the contents of the clipboard when I least expect it.
13:34<shirish>valdyn: and I do not want to end the session or log out to clear the contents of the clipboard.
13:34<valdyn>shirish: so just copy something short
13:35<valdyn>shirish: or use the clipboard like anyone else and dont paste when you dont want to paste
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13:35<sobersabre>shirish: it is a good practice to never paste anything accidentally :)
13:35<sobersabre>and of course even so, accidents would still happen.
13:35<shirish>valdyn: both of these scenarios don't work for me. I am looking for a third way where I can clean the clipboard without using a clipboard manager (if possible)
13:36<sobersabre>use an app called "xclip"
13:36<sobersabre>it has a flag of clearing the clipboard.
13:36<sobersabre>I'm not sure how it interacts with other clipboard managers.
13:36<sobersabre>Also, there's a mess in keyboard shortcuts area between window managers, desktop managers, and clipboard managers
13:37<sobersabre>And some IDEs have their own clipboard managers too.
13:37<sobersabre>so it gets complicated.
13:37<sobersabre>:)
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13:37<sobersabre>shirish: give specific use cases and we can think of a way of either working around them or avoiding them altogether.
13:38<shirish>sobersabre: you have actually hit the nail on my problem. I don't want to use clipboard managers because there are many and I do tend to change sessions with different window managers, desktop environments etc.
13:38<shirish>and it becomes a pain to remember how to clear the contents.
13:38<valdyn>you just need an AI that clears the clipboard when it should be cleared ;)
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13:39<shirish>valdyn: not an AI but a command which does the same thing no matter which window manager it is.
13:39<tony77>petn-randall, I tried this too: mkinitramfs -v -d /etc/initramfs-tools/ -o /boot/initrd.img-2.6.32-5-amd64 2.6.32-5-amd64 -r /
13:39<shirish>valdyn: just how 'mv, cp, and other commands are, which are inviolate no matter which desktop environment I'm in.
13:39<tony77>petn-randall, cant make it work :S
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13:40<valdyn>shirish: the clipboard is not independent of your desktop programs unfortunately
13:40<valdyn>shirish: which means that theres also no program that does what you want properly
13:41<valdyn>shirish: but maybe xclip is good enough
13:41<sobersabre>I'd go for ods compatible DESKTOPS and tools.
13:41<valdyn>i dont get why I would change desktop as part of my regular workflow
13:41<sobersabre>valdyn: maybe QA...
13:42<sobersabre>shirish: why are you skipping and jumping environments ?
13:42<shirish>sobersabre: part of my job is in QA which requires me to test sofware in different environments.
13:42-!-jthomas_ [~jthomas@nat.sierrabravo.net] has joined #debian
13:43<valdyn>shirish: if i had to swith very often like that, i would run multiple x servesr
13:44<shirish>valdyn: I would too but have very weak systems here so have to do the way it is.
13:44<sobersabre>OK. so basically, you have 2 choices: either become fluent in all environments you have to play with (start with 1, then another one, etc., incrementally), OR try to cover all the common grounds ...
13:45<sobersabre>I mean there is GTK, there's QT, and everything else should be out of your scope anyway :)
13:45<sobersabre>so it's not that complicated. is it ?
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13:46<sobersabre>Also, if you are facing this kind of challenge: 1) too many environments, 2) too little computing resources, 3) too little experience the quality of your QA would suffer. which means you better cut off environments. and increase coverage/depth.
13:47<sobersabre>otherwise you will try to cover everything but will cover nothing (Sun Tzu)
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13:47<sobersabre>what say thou, shirish:
13:47<sobersabre>?
13:48<shirish>sobersabre: again true, but as of now, looking for a way out.
13:49<shirish>umm... can somebody explain if having a CLI-based clipboard manager possible or not ?
13:50<shirish>and if it's possible, what would prevent a person using it in different desktop environments ?
13:51<shirish>sobersabre: ^
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13:52<sobersabre>xsel seems low level enough: it is linked to libXdmcp, libxcb, libX11, no gnome or QT. that may work for many tools.
13:53<sobersabre>until you come to a mac :)
13:53<sobersabre>or windows.
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13:53<sobersabre>shirish: what would prevent is incompatibility of desktop environments with the standards, maybe non-standard clipboard handling by clipboard manager
13:54<sobersabre>try and see yourself.
13:54<sobersabre>it also seems to be capable of sending commands via DISPLAY variable.
13:54-!-Blue_Hat [~TwinKam20@184.170.36.14] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:54<sobersabre>I'm not familiar with security aspects of this, but it might work.
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13:57<shirish>sobersabre: checking it out.
13:58-!-gernot [~gernot@00016e79.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
13:58<shirish>sobersabre: and thank you for both answering and at least attempting to find tools which might help me.
13:59<nmschulte>I have an issue with Debian (on my BeagleBoard, and ARMv7 architecture, but that should be irrelevant) and a USB 802.11n WiFi adapter (using ath9k_htc driver; htc_7010.fw firmware) and automatic network configuration.
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13:59<sobersabre>nmschulte: I hope the issue is not legal...
13:59<nmschulte>I don't have a desktop environment installed, I've just configured /etc/network/interfaces with DHCP and a WPA key (and SSID; wpa_supplicant I believe).
13:59<sobersabre>what is the issue?
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14:00<nmschulte>The issue is that when the system comes up, regardless if I use `allow-hotplug wlan0` or `auto wlan0`, the interface is not configured.
14:00<nmschulte> I have to manually issue an `ifup wlan0`
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14:01<sobersabre>try looking when your wifi card's driver starts printing into /var/log/dmesg upon boot. if it starts after your network scripts is trying to bring wlan0 up, you already know the answer.
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14:02<nmschulte>sobersabre: how do I know when the network script tries to bring it up?
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14:02<sobersabre>you can add a print command to it... something like: echo "kuku I am network script I am trying to run now...."
14:03<shirish>sobersabre: it works, xsel -b -c and the selection in clipboard is deleted.
14:03<sobersabre>you can get graphical too, try drawing scissors: 8<---8<--- or fishes: <>< <><
14:03<sobersabre>shirish: nice.
14:03<sobersabre>nmschulte: get creative ;-]
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14:04<ncl>%<
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14:05<shirish>thank you gentleman, back to work.
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14:08<sobersabre>ncl: what is this ?
14:08<ncl>scissors
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14:09<sobersabre>my thumb wouldn't fit there :)
14:11<nmschulte>sobersabre: the systemd init service should be logging the networking init script somewhere; I can view that inline with dmesg messages somehow (syslog, via systemd? the new sysd arch is new to me)
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14:13<YamakasY>hi guys!
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14:14<cofirazak1>Hi all. I'm totally surprised! I just tried to turn on my notebook for 15 minutes!
14:14<cofirazak1>When it comes to load the desktop environment it just stops. I can move my mouse, but no services are loaded at all. No desktop.
14:14<cofirazak1>Finally i logged as root in tty1 and saw that my home directory was owned by root:root!
14:14<cofirazak1>And my local user had no more rights to write in it!
14:14<cofirazak1>How could it happen?
14:14-!-cofirazak1 was kicked from #debian by debhelper [flood. Please use http://paste.debian.net instead.]
14:15-!-cofirazak1 [~cofirazak@94.79.45.37] has joined #debian
14:15<cofirazak1>Hi all. I'm totally surprised! I just tried to turn on my notebook for 15 minutes! When it comes to load the desktop environment it just stops. I can move my mouse, but no services are loaded at all. No desktop. Finally i logged as root in tty1 and saw that my home directory was owned by root:root! And my local user had no more rights to write in it! How could it happen?
14:16<Psi-Jack>cofirazak1: Often times: Stupidity.
14:16<cofirazak1>hm
14:16<cofirazak1>what you mean?
14:16<Psi-Jack>A user, being stupid, and chown -R root:root /home, or something that'll affect /home, such as /
14:18<cofirazak1>the user didn't change the owner 100%.
14:18<cofirazak1>the only thing happened - battery get critically low and turned off.
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14:19<Psi-Jack>You say that, but /that/ wouldn't change ownership of files.
14:20<cofirazak1>i just looked bash history. no commands including chown at all
14:21-!-mtn [~mtn@dpc6744164009.direcpc.com] has joined #debian
14:21<Psi-Jack>bash history is not accurate. If a login was not properly logged out by normal exit/logout commands, history is not saved, unless specifically configured to save history to disk every time. (not default).
14:23<cofirazak1>so you really think that i changed yesterday the ownership of my home folder and today i forgot about it?))
14:23<Psi-Jack>You asked how could that happen, you were given a random scenario.
14:24<Psi-Jack>Basically, something, or someone changed ownership of files. Simple as that .
14:24<cofirazak1>very strange..
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14:24<cofirazak1>the first thought was someone cracked my laptop))
14:24-!-bsc [~balasanka@117.217.140.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:25<Psi-Jack>That's another possability, but stupid if they did. :p
14:25<cofirazak1>you're right))
14:25<YamakasY>wow this channel lives :D
14:25<Psi-Jack>Why are you ending lines with ))? :p
14:25<retrospectacus>it could also happen that a separate /home failed to mount after power failure and the non-separate /home was poorly chowned
14:25-!-octal [~alvarezp@201.139.69.213] has quit [Quit: octal]
14:26<cofirazak1>i don
14:26-!-snowman [~wm@cpe-24-59-64-101.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #debian
14:26<cofirazak1>i don't know ^)
14:26<snowman>Hi, I am getting a connection error when I try and connect to my fresh install of ircd-hybrid.
14:26<cofirazak1>retrospectacus: interesting thought!
14:26<YamakasY>oh damn this is really like the old channel
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14:28<retrospectacus>YamakasY: if You don't have a Debian support question, please chat in #debian-offtopic
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14:28<YamakasY>retrospectacus: yeah will do, but the old freenode channel is dead as a horse
14:29-!-cyd [~cyd@2a02:810d:e80:208c:955f:3ad3:78f:51d2] has joined #debian
14:29<retrospectacus>what does that have to do with anything
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14:32<cofirazak1>and just for interest, is it popular in debian to have kde as a desktop environment?
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14:32<Ganneff>it is popular with those who like kde...
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14:33<YamakasY>retrospectacus: relax
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14:34<YamakasY>cofirazak1: depends on what you want, I like slick
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14:37<YamakasY>mhh building by own netinstall image can't it find the kernel modules
14:37<YamakasY>when I boot it
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14:46<kali>cofirazak1: you can look at the popcon if you're curious http://popcon.debian.org/sourcemax/by_inst
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14:47-!-mode/#debian [+l 661] by debhelper
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14:56<attila>hello, what is channel for debian beginners?
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14:59<rryoumaa>here is as good as any i know
15:00<rryoumaa>whether it is good enough, dunno
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15:01<rryoumaa>is it advised to reboot after the new libc6? checkrestart has a whole bunch of suggestions.
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15:01<hwgasdfasdf>anyone know how to fix cups in that I can't add a printer, as I always get "Add Printer [printername] Error Unable to get list of printer drivers: Success" in the web interface
15:02<hwgasdfasdf>I just dist-upgraded the box to try to fix the problem, didn't help
15:02<hwgasdfasdf>don't see any obvious errors in the log either
15:04<attila>can anybody help me?: kate.desktop doesn't appear in xfce menu in Accessories, why?, but "Categories=Utility;" exists, but kolourpaint.desktop appears
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15:09<NSArgentum>hey guys
15:09-!-ldnunes [~ldnunes@177.35.70.10] has quit []
15:09<NSArgentum>any ideas on debian to windows remote desktop?
15:09-!-ldnunes [~ldnunes@177.35.70.10] has joined #debian
15:09<valdyn>NSArgentum: "grdesktop"
15:10<NSArgentum>and what's the companion on windows?
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15:10<NSArgentum>I'll look into it, thanks
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16:51<sobersabre>nmschulte: sorry, I'm still working, can't dedicate the attention :-/
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16:52<ceon>Hi
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16:54<havarka>hi, i have one question how do I create Wireless Access Point in debian? which can be access true android
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16:57<Brigo>havarka, first you need a wifi card that support master mode
16:57<Brigo>then for some models you can use hostap.
16:57<ceon>I need a wifi too :- )
16:58<havarka>Brigo, i guess i have such a card since in win and ubuntu it works. so then what?
16:58-!-Human_G33k [~Icedove@139.103.154.77] has joined #debian
16:58<Brigo>what target?
16:59<Brigo>what model, i meant
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16:59<havarka>Brigo, mmnt
16:59<Brigo>lspci can help :)
16:59<Brigo>if pci, if usb lsusb
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17:00<ceon>Is it possible to install on Lenovo yoga Notebook Debian?
17:00-!-michael_ [~michael@pD951FBB6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #debian
17:00<nmschulte>sobersabre: no worries; I don't have the device here to perform experiments on anyway.
17:00<havarka>Brigo Intel Corporation Centrino Wireless-N 2230
17:01<Brigo>havarka, pci or usb?
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17:02<havarka>Brigo, I don`t know, its a notebook, does that help?
17:02<Brigo>havarka, http://wireless.kernel.org/en/users/Drivers/iwlwifi
17:02<Brigo>did you get the information from lspci or lsusb?
17:02<ceon>I will try it
17:02<havarka>lspci
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17:03<musca>ceon: yoga has a high dpi display, right?
17:04<ceon>yes
17:04<musca>can be a pain
17:04<Brigo>havarka, here you have a example of what to do: http://kuttler.eu/post/using-any-debian-box-as-wireless-access-point/
17:04<ceon>yes :-)
17:04<musca>,v linux-image-amd64 --release wheezy-backports
17:04<judd>Package: linux-image-amd64 on i386 -- wheezy-backports: 3.14+59~bpo70+1
17:04<ceon>but I love the use
17:04<ceon>its designed fpr use
17:05<ceon>for
17:05<ceon>besides the screen and the glance
17:05<havarka>Brigo, i will look that up
17:05<ceon>I hate monitors wich are reflecting
17:05<musca>there ia a more recent kernel in the backports repo, perhaps this might be neccessary
17:06<musca>is a ..
17:06<ceon>and the non numbers keyboards lol*
17:06<ceon>which
17:06<ceon>But I need a new Notebook
17:07<ceon>and this looks perfect - I hate to stay indoors
17:07<ceon>:-)
17:08<havarka>Brigo, thanks
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17:10<bergers89>hi. i installed debian on my notebook with laptop-mode-tools. This brings hdparm onto my machine, but hdparm is quite aggressive (it spins down/turns off the hdd after just a few seconds)
17:10<ceon>hmm
17:10<bergers89>so, my question is: how do you handle hdparm on your notebook (is is not a ssd disk)
17:10<bergers89>*it is not a ssd disk.
17:10<ceon>easy for an profi
17:11<ceon>but I am Student :-)
17:11<bergers89>does it make sense, after all, to install hdparm (hd controllers are quite sophisticated these days and have there own power management)
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17:11<Brigo>havarka, np :)
17:11<havarka>Brigo, let see how i`ll manage
17:12<ceon>hardware is a bitch gg*
17:12<Brigo>take it easy :)
17:12<ceon>software auch :-)
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17:14<ceon>I hope this week I gottime to install Debian 7
17:14<ceon>since school long time ago
17:14<ceon>I just worked windows
17:14<ceon>its okay
17:15<ceon>but Debian is a different love :-)
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17:26<ceon>Wish u a nice Week :-)
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17:27-!-mode/#debian [+l 652] by debhelper
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17:29<hwgasdfasdf>where does syslog go to by default now?
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17:29<havarka>Brigo, how do i launch it throug ifup?
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17:30<Brigo>havarka, you have to put a script in /etc/network/ifup.d/
17:31<havarka>what script?!
17:31<Brigo>havarka, your own :)
17:31-!-Blue_Hat [~TwinKam20@69.160.103.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:32<havarka>what should be written there? :)
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17:32<Brigo>the things you want to be launched, dhcp_server dnsmasq (maybe) etc.
17:32-!-gomex [~gomex@athena.ime.usp.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:33<havarka>Brigo, i dont know, tell me you :)
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17:33<Brigo>it depends on your configuration.
17:33-!-dancus [~dancus@dynamic-adsl-94-34-176-177.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #debian
17:33<havarka>could you help me step-by-step ?
17:33-!-FibraLogica [~FibraLogi@a89-152-66-72.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit []
17:33<havarka>please
17:34<Brigo>i doubt it, i have never done it :)
17:34<havarka>#$*!
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17:37<havarka>could you at least try? :)
17:37-!-trapier [~trapier@cpe-174-097-188-117.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3]
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17:39<ceon>how to list the chanels if I am coneccted?
17:39<ceon>Exuse mine english
17:39<ceon>c
17:39<ceon>I am german
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17:40<ceon>so I would love to chat
17:40<ceon>can get coneccted
17:40<Brigo>ceon, /whois will show it.
17:40<ceon>but how to list
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17:40<Brigo>havarka, sorry, ask me tomorrow. :)
17:40<ceon>so as I connected O just type /whoism ?
17:40<ceon> whois
17:41<havarka>Brigo, ok, about what time?
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17:41<Brigo>not sure, in 12 hours? :)
17:42<ceon>Linux is different
17:42<havarka>Brigo, ok :)
17:42<ceon>Wich a man
17:43<ceon>Linus :-)
17:43<bb2>hello anyone has installed scilab 5.5.0 on debian wheezy?
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17:43<ceon>just set down thinked and made a new system wich works fine :-)
17:43<ceon>one some ugly hardware
17:43<wompa>ceon, to see channels on this network, try /list
17:44<Brigo>ceon, this is a help channel if you only want to talk try in #debian-offtopic
17:44<ceon>thank u
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17:46<wompa>bb2, if you state the problem right away chances of help get better
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17:48<bb2>when launched got this:scilab-bin: /opt/scilab-5.5.0/lib/thirdparty/libcurl.so.4: no version information available (required by /opt/scilab-5.5.0/lib/scilab/libscilab-cli.so.0)
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17:48<bb2>scilab-bin: /opt/scilab-5.5.0/lib/thirdparty/libcrypto.so.0.9.8: no version information available (required by /opt/scilab-5.5.0/lib/thirdparty/libcurl.so.4)
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17:51<havarka>Brigo, i think i`ll look for different solution
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17:55<jmcnaught>bb2: i don't use scilab, but that path doesn't look like where a Debian package would install software (/opt). Have you tried using the scilab packages provided by Debian? Those would be supported here, but installing from an external source would not be
17:56<bb2>debian supports scilab 5.3.3
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17:56<hwgasdfasdf>anyone know why cups can't broadcast printers via avahi? DNS-SD registration of "[printername]" failed: Not supported
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17:57<bb2>thanks anyway
17:58<jmcnaught>bb2: if the 5.3.3 version of scilab works for what you need, then that's the solution. If you really need the newer version, you can probably find a scilab support channel/forum that would be able to help
17:58<bb2>there is #scilab but no help there
17:58<bb2>thanks anyway
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19:08<netinvman>hi,all
19:08<_flip>hello
19:09<netinvman>_filip, hello
19:09<netinvman>_flip ,hello
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19:15<somiaj>netinvman: do you have a question about debian?
19:19<netinvman>somiaj: i have a question about debian grub
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19:20<supaplex>!ask
19:20<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
19:20<supaplex>speaking of grub, I guess I have to modify http://paste.debian.net/117919/ to be included via grub off the efi debian BD-1 image. Eg, configfile (hd1,msdos1)/live/grml32-full/grub-menu.conf but do I just need s/kernel/linux/ or is there anything else?
19:23<netinvman>grub will appear when i press some keys ,for example capslock , arrow key , when i boot system
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19:23<netinvman>otherwise , grub will delay some seconds to appear
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19:24<abrotman>and?
19:25<netinvman>only this
19:27<mtn>netinvman: what is the question? you said you had one.
19:28<supaplex>I think (#assume) he wants the grub menu to show up quickly, whereas it's waiting 5s or so to show up. That's odd, considering it usually shows up, and waits 5s to boot the default.
19:29<mtn>guessing is always fun when trying to do support :P
19:30<netinvman>when i boot the debian, grub menu will delay many seconds to display the boot menu, but ,when i press some keys ,the grub menu will apprer quickly
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19:32<_flip>so what do you have on the screen before you press the buttons?
19:32<supaplex>netinvman: and you want/expect what instead?
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19:35<netinvman>_flip: blank
19:36<supaplex>!cn
19:36<dpkg>如果您想要得到中文的協助,請加入伺服器上的 #debian-zh (irc.oftc.net) 頻道,加入方法為在輸入框中輸入 "/server irc.oftc.net" 和 "/join #debian-zh" (不要加引號),謝謝您的合作!
19:36-!-annesia [~alumno@186.57.202.149] has joined #debian
19:36<annesia>hola
19:37<_flip>hi annesia
19:37<netinvman>supaplex:i have used many linux distribution , grub will display the boot menu very quickly
19:37<annesia>hi :)
19:37<_flip>netinvman: completely blank?
19:37<somiaj>netinvman: the only thing that happens before grub loads is the bios. Some bios have a set delay, maybe yours a key press will stop that dely. You might be able to configure your bios for 'quick boot' or something like that
19:37<supaplex>netinvman: indeed. but now we have a better idea of what you're expecting.
19:38<mtn>netinvman: does it that way on debian, as well. at least for most of us ;)
19:38<supaplex>maybe a cell phone video uploaded to youtube will clear up any ... ideas of what's really going on during your system boot.
19:38<somiaj>netinvman: what you are describing does not sound like a factor of debian, sounds like your bios. Also are you using efi or mbr legacy boot? And what does your machine support?
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19:38<supaplex>agreed. smells like a pre-grub issue (aka bios etc).
19:39<netinvman>somiaj: i use mbr boot
19:40<abrotman>X-Y problem ?
19:40<netinvman>somiaj: i am using samsung netbook
19:41<somiaj>netinvman: again what you are describing sounds to me like a bios configuration issue.
19:41-!-hashem [~hashem@2601:6:3000:3c6:e60:76ff:fe5a:d207] has joined #debian
19:41<netinvman>somiaj: thank you , i will try it
19:42<annesia>ALGUIEN HABLA ESPAÑOL=?
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19:43<dardevelin>entiendo um pouquito
19:44<supaplex>!es
19:44<dpkg>Este canal es de soporte tecnico en Ingles para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en espanol, por favor ingrese a #debian-es con /join #debian-es tecleado en la linea de chat.
19:44<dardevelin>supaplex, I was saying that I understand a little
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19:49<supaplex>ahh. no problem, just fyi. =)
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20:49<Chri[s]>hi
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20:55<pfsense_rookie>hell
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20:58<user01>how long does it take to create an ext4 filesystem on a 256GB SD card?
20:58<user01>its been going like an hour
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21:01<supaplex>I avoid ext3/4/journals on flash media. Did you buy the cheapest/slowest SD card?
21:01<user01>supaplex, 90 MB/s
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21:03<user01>supaplex, let me see . .. http://www.pny.com/Elite_Performance_SDXC_Class_10?sku=P-SDX256U1H-GE
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21:05<user01>supaplex, what would you recommend for flash media?
21:05<oldlaptop>ext2 would work
21:06<oldlaptop>fat32 has the obvious advantage of working everywhere
21:06<oldlaptop>(vfat?)
21:06<oldlaptop>whatever you call it, anyhow
21:06<supaplex>exfat
21:06<supaplex>or ext2
21:06<oldlaptop>no.
21:06<user01>oldlaptop, yeah i was formatting 200 GB as ext4 and the rest as fat32
21:06<oldlaptop>exfat is Microsoft's proprietary patented thing, correct?
21:06<user01>oldlaptop, yep
21:07<user01>oldlaptop, that´s what it was formatted as when i just got it
21:07<oldlaptop>ugh.
21:07-!-tlyu_ is now known as tlyu
21:07<supaplex>yup, but exfat has more capabilities than vfat/fat32. your FS could be too big for fat32. For unix filesystmes (eg, excutable files vs not), ext2 is preferred.
21:08<oldlaptop>*sigh*
21:08<supaplex>journalizing is just going to wear the flash media faster.
21:08-!-canaima [~canaima@190.38.51.170] has joined #debian
21:08<user01>supaplex, can i password protect it like ext4?
21:08<oldlaptop>exfat is poorly supported outside of windows.
21:08<oldlaptop>this channel is called #debian
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21:09<user01>oldlaptop, yep im formatting for use in debian
21:09<canaima>sex
21:09<supaplex>oldlaptop: yes, and there is exfat support for debian, so if we're talking fat and huge filesystems, it is relevant.
21:09<canaima>hello
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21:10<supaplex>I'm not aware ext4 had native support. I usually go the luks route.
21:10<canaima>eres hombre
21:10<user01>supaplex, yeah i installed it and it was a bit slow
21:10<canaima>gedi
21:10<supaplex>canaima: do you have a debian question?
21:10<oldlaptop>supaplex: it's poorly supported outside of windows.
21:10<user01>supaplex, should i cancel the ext4 formatting?
21:10<canaima>compi
21:10<user01>supaplex, not sure if dangerous
21:10<canaima>compiz
21:10<supaplex>!ops canaima
21:10<dpkg>Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, abrotman, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen, SynrG, jm_, somiaj, jelly: supaplex complains about: canaima
21:11<user01>supaplex, i could let it run overnnight
21:11<oldlaptop>there's a goofy and dubiously legal FUSE thingie for exfat, that's about it
21:11<canaima>x11 themes mause
21:11<supaplex>user01: up to you.
21:11<oldlaptop>canaima: can you please put your thoughts into coherent sentences?
21:11<canaima>yes
21:11<supaplex>oldlaptop: granted.
21:11<oldlaptop>we really can't help you otherwise
21:11<supaplex>oldlaptop: lol, I was typing that... canaima: either ask a coherent question ...
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21:12<oldlaptop>I suppose not.
21:12-!-hashem [~hashem@2601:6:3000:3c6:e60:76ff:fe5a:d207] has joined #debian
21:12*supaplex ^5's oldlaptop
21:13<oldlaptop>user01: What do you intend to use this card for?
21:13<oldlaptop>e.g. essentially no cameras can read ext2, as far as I know
21:13<oldlaptop>for that matter cameras and other such things will probably be confused by partition tables
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21:18<user01>oldlaptop, not sure yet . . . someone gave it to me
21:19<oldlaptop>FAT32 is going to be fine unless and until you want >4GB files
21:19<user01>thought i could use it as a spare Nikon sdcard
21:19<oldlaptop>then it's going to be quite unfine
21:19<user01>then as a spare music storage / documents when traveling in ext2
21:20<user01>i have a 32 GB SD card and it says formatted as fat32 for nikon
21:20<oldlaptop>I honestly don't see why you need anything other than fat32
21:20<oldlaptop>I'd like to see the music file that's bigger than 4GB
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21:21<user01>oldlaptop, i thought with fragmentation issues with fat32 better to keep data in ext2
21:21<user01>then fat32 so it could be used on the camera
21:21<oldlaptop>Fragmentation is not going to matter on solid state media
21:21<oldlaptop>or it's going to matter very little
21:22<user01>but fat32 is better than the exfat right?
21:22<user01>i read about exfat and it creeped me out
21:22<oldlaptop>The reason poor sods on win9x always had to defrag their hard disks was that when files fragment, the actual physical read-write heads had to physically move across the disk
21:22<oldlaptop>that took time
21:22<user01>not that i was very fond about fat32
21:23<oldlaptop>If you get fragments on some solid state media, it has to generate requests to non-contiguous areas, that's it
21:23<oldlaptop>exfat is apparently technically superior, but is kept tightly controlled by Microsoft
21:23<oldlaptop>that FUSE layer is probably illegal, they could probably sue you for using it if they cared to
21:24<oldlaptop>vfat/fat32/etc remains the one filesystem that *everything* will read
21:24<user01>surprising since microsoft is the biggest corporate contributor to the linux kernel ;)
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21:26<user01>i think ill let it format overnight
21:26<user01>there is no way to see what percentage is complete?
21:27<user01>it is doing a mkfs.ext2 -L "" /dev/sdcard
21:27<user01>last time it ran for an hour and still wasnt done on ext4
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21:29<oldlaptop>256GB is *big*, and even super-ultra-gargleblaster-high-speed cards are relatively slow
21:29<oldlaptop>I'd still personally suggest just using fat32 :P
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21:31<user01>oldlaptop, i was thinking it would be cool to just hand someone the disk with the info the need on the win32 and then they couldnt see my data in ext2, unless they had that mounter of ext2 for windows installed
21:31<oldlaptop>that's a stupid trick, not security (hopefully you know that already)
21:32<user01>well i know it isnt secure
21:32<oldlaptop>just hand them some other SD card :P
21:32<oldlaptop>or a USB drive
21:32<user01>but a basic level of security in a way like WEP
21:32<oldlaptop>small USB drives are like candy or something now
21:33<oldlaptop>nah, WEP is at least *something*
21:33-!-darkbasic_ [~quassel@niko.linuxsystems.it] has joined #debian
21:33<oldlaptop>like the caesar cipher is at least *something*
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21:33<user01>but most windows users dont have ext2 by default
21:33<oldlaptop>that's like writing a document in French and hoping the bad guy can't read French
21:33<user01>its not like highly secure documents
21:34<user01>that would be on ext2
21:34<oldlaptop>anyhow, if you think you'd like that, I won't try and stop you :P
21:34-!-seraph1 [~ernesto@200-71-150-172.static.telcel.net.ve] has joined #debian
21:34<oldlaptop>but I will give you my professional opinion as a random idiot on the Internet that it's fairly pointless :)
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21:35<user01>oldlaptop, i just thought an 80% free sdcard was better than a 100% fat32 disk :)
21:36<user01>or is fa32 completely open now?
21:36<oldlaptop>Depends on what you want
21:36<oldlaptop>Oh sure
21:36<oldlaptop>FAT is essentially unencumbered
21:36<oldlaptop>hence its universal legibility
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21:38<oldlaptop>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FAT32#Patents - the Win9x long filename support is patented; validity of the patents is debated
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21:39<user01>oldlaptop, ok well, im going to let it format overnight . . . i guess it hadnt frozen
21:39<user01>oldlaptop, at least im hoping it didnt
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21:40<oldlaptop>use gkrellm or something to monitor throughput, if you like :)
21:41<oldlaptop>gkrellm is incidentally the best thing since top(1)
21:42<oldlaptop>in particular the network support is very useful
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21:51<supaplex>user01: http://goo.gl/z0E9um
21:53<supaplex>also http://goo.gl/AXDHve - but this draft is not complete. I just created it today, but have not fleshed out the content.
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21:55<oldlaptop>oh, just use gkrellm :P
21:56<oldlaptop>easier
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22:06<_flip>I'm looking for suggestions on system backups
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22:06<user01>supaplex, thanks!
22:06-!-tony77 [~dimitry7@gate.aaamerica.com.mx] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:07<supaplex>sure. add my blog for the full update later. it may be a week or two, as I suffer chronic nerve pain.
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22:11<oldlaptop>_flip: can you be more specific?
22:11<oldlaptop>What kind of system? What do you need backed up?
22:12<_flip>perferably the full system. entire root if possible.
22:12<_flip>using ext4
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22:13<oldlaptop>tar -cf / /somewhere/backup.tar
22:13<oldlaptop>obvious disadvantage is that you can't have anything mounted (unless you want your backup drive in the backup)
22:13<oldlaptop>but at least it's mind-meltingly simple!
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22:15<oldlaptop>more seriously, see dump(8)
22:15<oldlaptop>http://manpages.debian.org/cgi-bin/man.cgi?query=dump&apropos=0&sektion=0&manpath=Debian+7.0+wheezy&format=html&locale=en
22:15<oldlaptop>,v dump
22:15<judd>Package: dump on i386 -- squeeze: 0.4b43-1; wheezy: 0.4b44-1; jessie: 0.4b44-4; sid: 0.4b44-4
22:15<oldlaptop>that's the traditional unix backup tool
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22:17<abrotman>besides tar?
22:17<oldlaptop>besides tar :P
22:17<_flip>thanks. Might have a play around with dump
22:17<supaplex>tar has --one-file-system
22:17<SamB>what, no rsync ?
22:18<_flip>it doesnt do delta backups does it? I'd like the idea of that
22:18<supaplex>rsync --link-dest FTMFW
22:19<supaplex>_flip: yup, ^^^^
22:19<themill>rsync's link-dest is nicely implemented and managed by rsnapshot
22:19<abrotman>rdiff-snapshot ?
22:19<abrotman>is that the name?
22:19<themill>,i rsnapshot
22:19<judd>Package rsnapshot (utils, optional) in wheezy/i386: local and remote filesystem snapshot utility. Version: 1.3.1-3; Size: 154.2k; Installed: 656k; Homepage: http://www.rsnapshot.org/
22:20<supaplex>you mean I did this the hard way with my own shell script? Humm....
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22:21<themill>supaplex: rsnapshot is both good and bad... it's nice in that you can throw it at problems and add things to it. It manages rotation of backups for you etc. Its default options are suboptimal and its whitespace-sensitive config file is annoying at times.
22:21<themill>But yes, I use it everywhere and it has saved my bacon on more than one occasion
22:22<themill>(for instance, default config is to use cp -l followed by a normal rsync rather than --link-dest just because --link-dest is a newish rsync option)
22:22<supaplex>sweet. I actually have two remote backup locations (disaster recovery). and use rsync --link-dest. FS too full? just wipe the oldest generation.
22:23<supaplex>also on private hardware so uncle sam can take a hike. :P
22:24<oldlaptop>that's what you think
22:25<oldlaptop>you happen to have that stuff behind an off-the-shelf consumer router?
22:25<_flip>dont they all run ddwrt now anyway?
22:25<oldlaptop>a lot of them I guess
22:26<TJ>still, should be running on some non off the shelf hardware none the less
22:26<oldlaptop>lately I've just had openbsd on an old junkyard P3 :P
22:26<themill>Each incremental backup from rsnapshot actually looks like a full backup on the filesystem which makes grabbing an individual file again later trivial and the space efficiency means I can have backups rolling back over a year quite happily (albeit with increasing sparseness as they get older)
22:26<TJ>or rather if your paranoid about the nsa knowing what you are doing, don't buy a linksys and install ddwrt.
22:27<_flip>rsnapshot sounds good
22:27<themill>But all the cool kids us obnam these days
22:27<themill>,i obnam
22:27<judd>Package obnam (python, optional) in wheezy/i386: online and disk-based backup application. Version: 1.1-1.1; Size: 94.4k; Installed: 506k; Homepage: http://braawi.org/obnam/
22:27<themill>,i obnam sid
22:27<judd>Package obnam (python, optional) in sid/i386: online and disk-based backup application. Version: 1.8-1; Size: 803.1k; Installed: 1424k; Homepage: http://liw.fi/obnam/
22:27<themill>(correct upstream URL)
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22:28<oldlaptop>not really
22:28<oldlaptop>redirects right away, to obnam.org
22:28<themill>yes, really.
22:29<TJ>do ya'll know of any software firewalls that do not depend on iptables that I can install on a debian box?
22:29<abrotman>TJ: what's wrong with iptables?
22:29<oldlaptop>it's evil
22:30<oldlaptop>(different flamewar)
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22:30<TJ>recompiling kernal isn't an option unfortunately and the kernel I am working with does not have the iptables kernel module (or so I have been led to understand from my errors and some other folks input)
22:30<abrotman>oldlaptop: then just be quiet .. you're not helping anyone with your useless rambling
22:30<TJ>mostly need to impliment a software firewall from scratch without a recompile.
22:30-!-hashem [~hashem@2601:6:3000:3c6:e60:76ff:fe5a:d207] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:31*abrotman notes iptables is software ..
22:31-!-popinjaygarden [~popinjayg@ec2-50-18-241-195.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit []
22:31*TJ references above statement regarding kernel module
22:31<rryoumaa>why is rsync --link-dest superior to cp -al?
22:32<abrotman>TJ: I only know of iptables and nbtables .. there is pf (not sure if that was ported to linux)
22:32<themill>rryoumaa: For large data sets, it can save a pile of IO and a lot of memory. I found cp -al would chug for almost as long as the rsync on this data set
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22:33<rryoumaa>i thought there was a gotcha with rsync --link-dest when i looked into the issue, but perhaps not
22:33<_flip>i couldnt find any package for pf anyway
22:33<oldlaptop>abrotman: it's been made to work with netbsd's rumpkernels (although that involves using the netbsd TCP/IP stack as well)
22:33<themill>rryoumaa: so switching from the two-pass approach to a single pass cut down the backup run from 30min to 10.
22:33<rryoumaa>that's nice
22:33-!-mjrosenb [~mjrosenb@c-71-58-70-139.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #debian
22:34<themill>it also stopped the backup host becoming fairly unresponsive while the backup was running ... cp was taking silly amounts of memory to do its thing
22:34<mjrosenb>morning, all. I'm trying to install debian from a usb stick that was set up with multibootusb.
22:34<SamB>oldlaptop: iptables is NSA evil, or some other kind of evil?
22:34<abrotman>oldlaptop: linux .. still not helping
22:35<mjrosenb>It looks like the installer cant find some files from the cd, and reports the cd corrupted.
22:35<SamB>oh but he's somehow missing the module?
22:35<mjrosenb>any idea /which/ files it is attempting to access that is causing issues?
22:35<abrotman>SamB: selfcompiled kernel
22:35<SamB>smooth!
22:35<mjrosenb>I tried strace, but nothing jumped out at me.
22:35<TJ>Thanks yall. I keep putting this task off but it's one of the most important... I hate working with the kernel but Ill learn.
22:36<oldlaptop>abrotman: without going into details, netbsd has been microkernel-izing; in particular the TCP/IP stack (and various other things) can run as linux kernel modules
22:36<abrotman>mjrosenb: many of those odd tools for doing that usb setup don't work correctly with Debian ISOs .. do you have a spare usb drive that you can use
22:36<abrotman>oldlaptop: again .. you're useless .. please stop
22:37<TJ>if I can get a ip_tables.ko from the manufacturer I think it should resolve my issues.
22:37<TJ>whats the procedure for utilizing it to do so?
22:37<TJ>do I just put it in the correct directory?
22:37<abrotman>TJ: Is this a device? what is uname -r
22:37<abrotman>?
22:38<supaplex>TJ: it belongs in /lib/modules/
22:38<mjrosenb>abrotman: no, but since the file system is overlaid with aufs, I can copy any necessary files to the place it is expecting them
22:38<mjrosenb>as long as I know what it is expecting.
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22:38<TJ>abrotman, it is an embedded device running: 2.6.35.3-571-gcca29a0+
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22:40<abrotman>Arm?
22:40<abrotman>ARM
22:40<TJ>yes
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22:42<SamB>TJ: the procedure is to threaten to get their ass sued if they don't give you instructions to build your own damn kernel
22:43<TJ>I am still too much of a noob. i tried building my own kernel a while back and ran into a few errors and wasn't able to dig myself out so I left that project alone.
22:43<mjrosenb>TJ: which device is it? I have experience with a bunch of them.
22:43<TJ>They are generally helpfull in a clueless sort of way.
22:43-!-xjuan [~xjuan@host134.186-109-156.telecom.net.ar] has joined #debian
22:43<TJ>technologics 7400v2's and 7600's
22:44-!-HoracePinker [~hpinker@71-92-239-14.static.trlk.ca.charter.com] has joined #debian
22:44<TJ>I will request the ip_tables.ko from them and put it in /lib/modules then restart to see if things come up correctly.
22:45<TJ>looks like the easiest rout rather than starting from scratch with different solutions I have NO knowledge about.
22:45<TJ>route*
22:46<TJ>mjrosenb, technologic systems (embedded arm)
22:49<mjrosenb>both of those seem awfully expensive for 450 mhz armv9's.
22:50<mjrosenb>abrotman: anyhow, I take it you don't know what files the installer is looking for from the cd image?
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22:50<abrotman>mjrosenb: not precisely .. but it's probably a messed up ISO copy
22:50<TJ>they are industrial grade. used in factories and other high temp/humidity/whatever environments. That said, I can't argue the point because I think the majority of the better embedded companies have caught up, but it's what we use.
22:50<abrotman>dpkg: tell mjrosenb about win32diskimager
22:52<supaplex>TJ: Well, /lib/modules/`uname -r`/ something.
22:54<TJ>supaplex, thanks. when I explore /lib/modules, I find three items: 2.6.35.3-571-gcca29a0+, imx28_ivt_linux.sb, and imx28_ivt_linux.spi
22:55<TJ>so I suppose it would be the first as it's a directory
22:55<TJ>then maybe /kernel/ ?
22:59<supaplex>TJ, sorry, kinda busy - and I don't recall all the details there. look around, google it. good luck.
22:59<TJ>Thank you supaplex!
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23:05<mjrosenb>abrotman: can that program install multiple isos onto one usb stick?
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23:13<sney>mjrosenb: no, but unlike unetbootin, it *can* write the debian (or most other bootable usb images) to the disk in a way that will work properly and not create weird behavior. see also rufus
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23:15<_flip>would it work to restore rsnapshot/obnam backups to a new disk as you would a disk image?
23:15<_flip>if you restore boot loader with dd as well of course
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23:17<sney>possibly, linux OSes are generally pretty flexible about being moved around, just yeah - the bootloader and any UUIDs if they get changed
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23:31<nmschulte>sobersabre: So, I've got the board in front of me now. It looks like you're probably right about the system running network init before the driver is loaded
23:31<nmschulte>sobersabre: Shouldn't the `allow-hotplug wlan0` line in the interfaces file resolve that though? (and I believe I must substitute that for the `auto wlan0` line, correct?)
23:32<somiaj>to bring up an interface at boot you need the auto line
23:32<somiaj>you can actually have both, I would have to look up the details of what allow-hotplug does in the interfaces file
23:33<nmschulte>somiaj: well, the auto wlan0 line is not sufficient.
23:33<somiaj>the allow-hotplug won't bring up the interface at boot, what that does if you run the command 'ifup --allow=hotplug' it will bring up any interface set as allow-hotplug
23:33<nmschulte>I think it may be because the ath9k_htc drivers aren't in the initrd? does that sound like a possibility?
23:33<somiaj>so this way udev can call that command when you plug in an interface and automatically bring it up
23:34<nmschulte>I've seen the ifquery command in use in the init script, and how you can constrain by --allow THING.
23:34<somiaj>no, by the time the networking is run you should have loaded the root filesystem and not need the initrd stuff anymore.
23:34<nmschulte>My issue: the line auto wlan0 is not enough to get my usb wifi card to configure automatically; I have to run -- oh!
23:35<somiaj>I would have to page up, so what is your original problem. You want wlan0 to come up when you boot and it is not?
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23:35<somiaj>and the usb interface is pluged in when you boot?
23:35<nmschulte>it may have worked with the allow-hotplug line -- yep, it totally did.
23:35<nmschulte>somiaj: yep, sure is.
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23:36<nmschulte>so, it just configured the wlan (though after a few seconds, reasonable though) with only the allow-hotplug wlan0 line (And the subsequent config)
23:36<somiaj>hmm, yea I don't use usb interfaces like that, seems strange to me. the allow-hotplug would make it automatically comeup when it is pluged in. Maybe that is what is happening, after you boot udev goes though and detects usb devices and treates them as they have just been pluged in
23:36<nmschulte>I should add `auto wlan0` for good measure (Though it seems to not work; perhaps this is a race condition and sometimes it does/does not)
23:36<somiaj>you shouldn't need both, so I woudln't use it
23:36<somiaj>auto wlan0 is the same as allow=auto wlan0
23:36<nmschulte>sounds good.
23:37<nmschulte>I swear I tried this before (And I _know_ I did on the older kernel before I changed both rootfs and kernel) and it wasn't working.
23:38<pfsense_rookie>yeah, "allow=auto wlan0" it's in the manual
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23:40<nmschulte>seems to be working consistently now; thanks much guys
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---Logclosed Thu Aug 28 00:00:21 2014