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#debian IRC Logs for 2014-09-13

---Logopened Sat Sep 13 00:00:50 2014
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02:17*SamB_laptop wonders if there's some way to get iceweasel to bring its windows back on the same workspaces they were on before ...
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02:22<mjrosenb>ok, why would sudoedit bring up vim when EDITOR is emacs, and VISUAL isn't set?
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02:23<mjrosenb>SamB_laptop: oh man, that would be a /great/ feature.
02:23<SamB_laptop>... did visudo get renamed?
02:24<mjrosenb>SamB_laptop: I don't have a visudo.
02:25<SamB_laptop>(is sudoedit something that just runs any old editor as root?)
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02:26<mjrosenb>SamB_laptop: not quite. it runs it as the user
02:26<mjrosenb>it just copies it to /tmp first, and changes the perms on it so the user can edit it, then when the editor exits, does that in reverse.
02:27<SamB_laptop>... does it check syntax like visudo does?
02:28<mjrosenb>SamB_laptop: what syntax?
02:28<mjrosenb>visudo is made just for editing /etc/sudoers.conf afaict, sudoedit is made for editing /any/ file.
02:28<SamB_laptop>okay, so it's nothing like visudo ...
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02:29<SamB_laptop>it's more like ... a poor man's tramp
02:29<mjrosenb>isn't tramp for editing remote files?
02:31<mjrosenb>anyhow, sudoedit *normally* respects ${VISUAL:${EDITOR}}, but it appears to not be doing that today.
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02:31<AyanameRei>fwiw, it works well for me
02:32<AyanameRei>i.e. sudoedit will open things in vim, or whatever I export to EDITOR
02:32<SamB_laptop>opening things in vim is not particularly impressive
02:32<SamB_laptop>lots of stuff does that by default ;-)
02:33<mjrosenb>AyanameRei: what version of sudo do you have?
02:34*mjrosenb is also kind of curious about the lack of visudo
02:34<mjrosenb>how am I supposed to edit /etc/sudoers without it, without fear of bricking my system?
02:35<AyanameRei>mjrosenb: sudo -V gives: Sudo version 1.8.5p2
02:36<mjrosenb>Sudo version 1.8.9p5
02:36<mjrosenb>:-/
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02:36<mjrosenb>interesting that mine is higher, I don't think I've upgraded this system in a year.
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02:37<AyanameRei>Are you running testing?
02:37<SamB_laptop>mjrosenb: hmm, that's PROBABLY not from deb-multimedia ;-)
02:37<mjrosenb>SamB_laptop: oh, you remember that? c.c
02:38<mjrosenb>Debian GNU/Linux jessie/sid \n \l
02:38<AyanameRei>mjrosenb: You might want to try #debian-next
02:38<mjrosenb>AyanameRei: true!
02:38*mjrosenb totally forgot how he set up this system
02:38<mjrosenb>I don't even remember why I chose that over stable.
02:39*SamB_laptop wonders if AyanameRei is a clone
02:39<themill>visudo is in /usr/sbin which isn't in $PATH
02:39<mjrosenb>themill: ahh, that would do it.
02:39<SamB_laptop>why isn't /usr/sbin in $PATH anyway
02:39<themill>SamB_laptop: because it contains things that a user shouldn't|doesn't need
02:40<AyanameRei>Thanks for rescuing me, themill ; I was chiming in with my experience, but I'm out of my depth :D
02:40<mjrosenb>themill: those things the user shouldn't be able to execute!
02:40*mjrosenb thinks of ifconfig/iwconfig
02:40<mjrosenb>which a user has every right to execute.
02:40<themill>well it doesn't *prevent* the user from executing them, it just keeps them out of tab-completion
02:40<themill>s/ifconfig/ip/ and all is well.
02:40<Zaba>it's a very arbitrary distinction for a lot of programs
02:41<SamB_laptop>themill: that hardly seems much different from anyplace else
02:41<Zaba>and it more gets in the way than helps
02:41<themill>Zaba: indeed.
02:41<SamB_laptop>themill: there
02:41<SamB_laptop>are lots that *are* useful to normal users in there, too ...
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02:42<mjrosenb>bash doesn't tab complete executable files that the user doesn't have permission to execute
02:42<themill>SamB_laptop: looking at /sbin and /usr/sbin on my system here, there's only 3 or 4 of them that can do anything other than die with EPERM
02:42<themill>mjrosenb: this isn't a permissions issue though
02:43<mjrosenb>themill: right, I'm saying it should be. e.g. if you shouldn't be executing /usr/sbin/foo, then you shouldn't have permission to execute it.
02:43<SamB_laptop>mjrosenb: that'd be even WORSE
02:44<mjrosenb>SamB_laptop: c.c
02:45<themill>There are certainly proposals to merge sbin into bin but like any proposal that involves leaving the 1970s unix era behind, it gets rather a lot of "get off my lawn" reactions from the sort of people who believe that "bc" is an important part of the base system and should be on every machine.
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02:45<helmut_>hi
02:46<SamB_laptop>themill: you mean that isn't so?
02:46<mjrosenb>themill: it is!
02:46<SamB_laptop>helmut_: you look a bit different today
02:46<mjrosenb>iirc, it is required to build the linux kernel?
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02:47<Zaba>not every machine is going to build the linux kernel
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02:47<themill>mjrosenb: gcc is a requirement to build the linux kernel and that's not part of our base install.
02:48<mjrosenb>themill: c.c, oh right.
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02:56<mjrosenb>ok, so at least it has been broken in this way for someone somewhere: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sudo/+bug/1028502
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03:40<MorpheusBeing>definately bc on every machine - it is the only way i can prove 1 + 1 = 10 and 6 * 9 = 42 on a computer that my gkids will believe
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04:23<peter1138>hmm, is there a way of preventing a process from being able to access a device that the user running the process is permitted to access?
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04:27<peter1138>omg
04:27<peter1138>every time something makes an alert, rhythmbox gets paused and muted :S
04:29<mjrosenb>peter1138: does the process change privledges?
04:29<peter1138>no
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04:30<mjrosenb>peter1138: with my knowledge, that is impossible.
04:30<peter1138>:(
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04:32<mjrosenb>(I am not saying it is impossible, just I don't know how)
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04:33<mjrosenb>there are a bunch of finer-grained permissions implemented, but I don't know how to enable them, and I don't know if they can operate on /dev or /sys.
04:33<Thorgrin>hello guys. modprobe acpi-cpufreq gives me ERROR: could not insert 'acpi_cpufreq': No such device. However, p4_clockmod module loads fine. I have an old http://ark.intel.com/products/27248/Intel-Core2-Duo-Processor-E6300-2M-Cache-1_86-GHz-1066-MHz-FSB and kernel 3.14-0.bpo.2-amd64
04:33<Thorgrin>any ideas how to use acpi_cpufreq module?
04:34<peter1138>mjrosenb, yeah, maybe selinux or somesuch :S
04:34<peter1138>mjrosenb, this is stupid, just to work around games that don't understand a particular controller and won't let you disable their use of it, and just freak out instead :S
04:35<mjrosenb>peter1138: uhhh...
04:36<mjrosenb>peter1138: you could write you own open function, stick it in a .so, and LD_PRELOAD it in place.
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04:36<mjrosenb>although the fact that you get to control it when it runs makes this much easier.
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04:38<mjrosenb>peter1138: you could just remove all perms from it before you run the game, then add them back later.
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05:58<drinkitall>hi all, can anyone help me with this? http://paste.debian.net/plain/120665
05:58<drinkitall>aptitude update shows this error with ftp.it.debian.org, but it does work fine with ftp.de.debian.org for example
05:59<drinkitall>i'm confused, files seem accessible on both mirrors
06:00<mjrosenb>drinkitall: possibly not all arches are mirrored on all servers? (guessing)
06:02<drinkitall>mjrosenb: ftp.it.debian.org is listed as a primary mirror for italy and supports armhf here: https://www.debian.org/mirror/list
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06:06<drinkitall>also, i can reach http://ftp.it.debian.org/debian/dists/wheezy/main/binary-armhf/Packages.gz , i can't understand why aptitude can't
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06:08<mjrosenb>yeah, I noticed.
06:09<mjrosenb>drinkitall: you can always try stracing it, and see what command it is running.
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06:09<mjrosenb>(actually, I have no clue if apt* just have enough of a http client built in to grab those files, or they call wget/fetch
06:09<mjrosenb>)
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06:25<drinkitall>i tried with another italian mirror and it's working as well... think it's a problem for that specific primary mirror, even if apparently all seems ok with files
06:25<drinkitall>i'll check in the next days too, maybe it's a temporary issue
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06:26<mjrosenb>drinkitall: might as well report it... worst case it is a duplicate report.
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06:31<musca>drinkitall: i like to use the redirector http://http.debian.net
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06:37<drinkitall>musca: thanks, didn't know about it (and the best mirrors it detects are not in my country too, lol)
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06:54<musca>drinkitall: that may change and only temporarily caused by problems with ftp.it.debian.org
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08:47<casper366>hi, am I doing something wrong or is it not possible to tell feh to set a background and show the path/filename (eg. feh --bg-max -dr /path/to/wallpapers)
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09:04<Mickloven>lone: wacha ziiine cv ???
09:04<lone>ahela 7ebibena cv hh
09:05<lone>hmd
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09:05<Mickloven>lone: hhhhhhhhhhh
09:06<Mickloven>lone: kache jadide
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09:07<lone>walou
09:08<lone>mickloven: walou
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09:52<souvent>Hi, i'm new on debian, i want to custom gnome, and all the sites i've read speak about https://extensions.gnome.org but i can't install the extensions here.
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09:54<devil_>these sites might not be debian related. every distribution does their packaging and includes things it finds usefull
09:56<souvent>you right it's mainly ubuntu related sites, so how can i add features to gnome ?
09:56<devil_>I have no idea, I stay as far from gnome as I can throw one :)
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09:57-!-mode/#debian [+l 651] by debhelper
09:57<wompa>souvent, I don't know much about Gnome, are you making sure they are compatible with Gnome 3.4? Which I think is Debian Wheezy's version of Gnome
---Logclosed Sat Sep 13 09:58:41 2014
---Logopened Sat Sep 13 10:31:33 2014
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10:39<hallow-wead>Salut, tout le monde
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---Logopened Sat Sep 13 10:51:14 2014
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10:56<charity>I installed pepper flash and it's still saying "Could not load Shockwave Flash"
10:56<charity>su -c ' update-pepperflashplugin-nonfree --status'Flash Player version installed on this system : 15.0.0.152
10:56<charity>Location: /usr/lib/pepperflashplugin-nonfree/libpepflashplayer.so Type: PPAPI (out-of-process)
10:56<charity>is enabled in chrome://plugins
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11:29<[C]hris>I have a question, sometimes i run this to regain memory which it works but i've read that it slows down your system if you do it. is that true ? sudo sh -c "sync; echo 3 > /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches"
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11:33<sney>[C]hris: www.linuxatemyram.com
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11:37<rungsun1991>dd
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11:40<[C]hris>aw
11:40<[C]hris>ic
11:40<[C]hris>Thanks sney
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11:41<sney>np, common misconception
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11:48<n4meless>ciao
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11:51<n4meless>hi
11:51<centrx>!hi
11:51<dpkg>hello, centrx
11:52<n4meless>my raspberry pi freeze for cpu load playing flash player content on youtube.com anyone can help ?
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11:58<sney>!raspbian
11:58<dpkg>Raspbian is a distribution <based on Debian> made specifically for the <Raspberry Pi>. Raspbian is not Debian and it is not supported in #debian. Please use #raspbian on irc.freenode.net for support. http://www.raspbian.org/
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12:12<aramir>Hello, could someone help me please to fix a problem with my PC? It's due to optimus technolog, whenever the Xserver try to start it stops writing in the log "no screen found". I installed bumblebee as described onto the debian wiki page. yet it still crashes
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12:15<n4meless>thanks
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12:16<sney>aramir: optimus is not well supported, it's better if you can set your pc to use only the intel gpu (in the bios/efi)
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12:17<aramir>@sney lot of pc don't have this option
12:17<aramir>And I have one of them
12:17<sney>I said "if"
12:17<aramir>just saying not schoiling you don't worry ˆˆ
12:18<aramir>anyway, sadly intel gpu is a big no to me too, because I'm working on unity games
12:18<aramir>and i would not be able to properly test them with intel gpu
12:19<sney>ok. well, the no screens found error is not the important part. farther back in the log it'll show what actually failed, usually marked with EE at the beginning of the line
12:20<sney>since this is optimus it's probably not finding a matching kernel module for the glx driver that it loaded.
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12:20<aramir>(btw sorry if I'm not spelling words properly, I have to use a tablet)
12:21<aramir>yes it said it couldn't load nvidia module
12:21<aramir>from what I read it's due to bumblebee
12:21<aramir>but I don't know if it's a normal behaviour
12:21<sney>it's unfortunately pretty "normal" for optimus/bumblebee to break a lot before you get it working, if you ever get it working
12:22<sney>can you see the nvidia gpu in lspci? can you load the module manually?
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12:22<calisto1>http://thevarguy.com/open-source-application-software-companies/glusterfs-or-ceph-who-will-win-open-source-cloud-storage-
12:22<aramir>yes I can see it
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12:22<aramir>but weirdly it's labelled as a 3D controller
12:22<aramir>not a VGA controller
12:23<aramir>I have no idea why
12:24<aramir>and i can load the module using modprobe
12:24<sney>probably because optimus is based on the old 3d accelerator idea, where one chip renders the desktop and a separate discrete chip does opengl. we had that back in the voodoo days
12:24<aramir>yes I'm familiar with it, but a lot of optimus card were labelled as VGA controller too
12:25<aramir>I get the idea that the nvida card do the hard work and the intel one is only here to render the nvidia results on the screen
12:25<sney>I think that's the biggest issue with making bumblebee work across the board, so many different laptop vendors implemented it differently
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12:26<aramir>Do you think because it's labelled as a 3D contrroller it can't access to the monitor (without the help of the intel chip) ?
12:27<sney>sounds plausible
12:27<aramir>meh .... anyways the solution is the same
12:27<aramir>I've got to fix bumblebee settings
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12:28<aramir>(also I've tried to install nvidia official driver using the .RUN file on their website, without bumblebee. It should have work becasue optimmus is now officialy supported by nvidia drivers .... but it didn't work too)
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12:30<sney>nvidia-installer-cleanup may be necessary now
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12:32<aramir>I ll try it
12:32<aramir>i'll come back to post results
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13:04<Kureyslii>EUZUBILLAHIMINEŞŞEYTANIRRACIM BISMILLAHIRRAHMANIRRAHIM
13:04<Kureyslii>ALLAHU EKBERRRRR! LA İLAHE İLLALLAH MUHAMMEDEN RESULULLAH!
13:04<Kureyslii>I did the obligatory prayers five times a day to the nation. And I promised myself that, who (beside me) taking care not to make the five daily prayers comes ahead of time, I'll put it to heaven. Who says prayer does not show attention to me I do not have a word for it.! Prophet Muhammad (s.a.v.)
13:04<Kureyslii>hell if you did until the needle tip could not remove your head from prostration Prophet Muhammad pbuh
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13:19<lampelina>hi guys
13:19<elico>Hey, I'm looking for some help with packaging a deb file, what would be the better channel for that? Where can I find the right mailing list for the topic?
13:19<lampelina>does anyone else having problems with ntfs devices after the last updates
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13:23<valdyn>!tell lampelina -about ask
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13:25<supaman>elico: a good starting point is here: http://mentors.debian.net/qa .. and the corresponding irc channel is #debian-mentors
13:27<elico>thanks supaman
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13:35<[C]hris>why do i feel as if i have to type echo after each command to return a correct new prompt on a new line other wise my messages bleed into the same line
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14:18<m2og3>hello
14:19<m2og3>tell me where you can ask questions on programming with c++?
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14:23<m2og3>tel my where you can ask questions on programming with c++?
14:24<mtn>m2og3: I would start by asking google or another search engine ;)
14:24<imtiaz>probably easiest to google "C++ irc" and try different channels till you hit one most active
14:24<imtiaz>but maybe just a "programming" channel is best, probably more people
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14:28<m2og3>imtiaz: inquire google helped
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14:28<mtn>surprise, surprise
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14:49<SmitySmiter>hello guys, any idea how I can fix the following error, I messed up when trying to install/uninstall Wine
14:49<SmitySmiter>dpkg: error processing glx-diversions (--remove):
14:49<dpkg>smitysmiter: That isn't an error, post the whole output to a pastebin (/msg dpkg pastebin).
14:49<SmitySmiter> subprocess installed post-removal script returned error exit status 2
14:50<SmitySmiter>https://bpaste.net/show/7799405fc797 <- the whole error
14:51<SmitySmiter>hello?
14:51-!-screenn [~screen@5.248.33.191] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:52<SmitySmiter>and this error turned up when I was trying to install VLC
14:52<SmitySmiter>Debian Wheezy, 7.6
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14:56<ompaul>SmitySmiter: dpkg is the channel bot
14:57-!-melmothX [~melmoth@46-190.dsl.iskon.hr] has quit [Quit: #]
14:57<ompaul>SmitySmiter: perhaps you tell us how you installed wine
14:57-!-melmothX [~melmoth@46-190.dsl.iskon.hr] has joined #debian
14:57<ompaul>mtn: boo?
14:57<mtn>ompaul: trying to wake me up? :P
14:58<SmitySmiter>ompaul, yea I know it's a bot, but thought the full error might be helpful ^_^
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14:58<SmitySmiter>how I installed Wine, umm.... will it help if I said I don't really remember :$
14:58<ompaul>mtn: I thought you wanted a surprise :)
14:59<mtn>ompaul: ah. well, thank you!
14:59<ompaul>SmitySmiter: please paste in our spam free land of http://paste.debian.net the output of this command apt-cache policy wine (all of it)
14:59<ompaul>mtn: you are welcome :)
15:00<SmitySmiter>ah, all right :)
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15:01<SmitySmiter>Your ip (122.167.208.47) is listed on http://www.projecthoneypot.org/. If this was a false positive please contact the admin
15:01<SmitySmiter>great...
15:02<SmitySmiter>may I paste it at bpaste.net?
15:02<ompaul>go on
15:02<SmitySmiter>https://bpaste.net/show/86b9ff9ffb7f
15:02<SmitySmiter>it's not much, only a few lines
15:02<SmitySmiter>not really sure if it'll help
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15:03<ompaul>SmitySmiter: it helps me understand you didn't use a debian package to install your wine
15:03-!-liberulo [~liberulo@179.186.230.113.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:04<SmitySmiter>oh, hmm
15:04<SmitySmiter>I used gdebi + dpkg I think
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15:04<ompaul>SmitySmiter: then your local debian dpkg db should have registered something
15:04<ompaul>if I'm correct
15:05<SmitySmiter>hmm
15:05<SmitySmiter>ompaul, I think I followed the instructions here http://www.binarytides.com/install-wine-debian-wheezy/
15:06<ompaul>SmitySmiter: bad news it uses a script nobody here (is a reasonable guess) knows what it does
15:06<SmitySmiter>was trying to install the latest wine version, before that I had to uninstall the currently installed one
15:06<ompaul>I've never even seen that before
15:06<SmitySmiter>hmm
15:06-!-owl [~owl@cpc68263-seac23-2-0-cust307.7-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #debian
15:06<ompaul>there is a debian wauy to do things which generally is not going to break your box
15:06<ompaul>!wine
15:06<dpkg>Wine (Wine Is Not an Emulator) is an application intended to allow execution of Microsoft Windows programs on Unix-like operating systems. Application compatibility database: http://appdb.winehq.org/ . http://wiki.winehq.org/HowTo http://wiki.winehq.org/FAQ #winehq on irc.freenode.net. See <mmap_min_addr> regarding use of Win16 binaries. See also <newer wine>.
15:07<mtn>SmitySmiter: https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian
15:07<ompaul>so the question is can you reverse engineer the sript
15:07<ompaul>and undo its damage
15:07<SmitySmiter>oh boy...
15:07<owl>does debian support t-link usb wifi dongles?
15:07-!-liberulo [~liberulo@186.214.200.120] has joined #debian
15:09<ompaul>SmitySmiter: before I pass comment further on this I'm going to urge youi to read that DontBreakDebian link - I'll see what else we might be able to do to help
15:09<ompaul>!TIAS
15:09<dpkg>TIAS is "Try It And See".
15:09<ompaul>owl: ^^
15:10<SmitySmiter>thank you, reading Don't break debian right now
15:10<ompaul>owl: no reason to think any of those things don't work - it is a matter of how twisted their access control / UI for doing thihngs :)
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15:11<owl>thanks for your swift reply :)
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15:11<ompaul>SmitySmiter: see the script on the page you pasted just for fun and zero profit but interest in it can you pastebin that script and get your ip off that list
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15:13<SmitySmiter>didn't get you, what exactly do you want me to do?
15:13<ompaul>SmitySmiter: on further reading you may have installed libraries from SID onto your stable box if you did go to the carbon project web page then each library will have to be removed - and one doesn't know what other damage that might might do
15:13<ompaul>SmitySmiter: I read more of that page, nothing right now
15:13<SmitySmiter>ah
15:13<SmitySmiter>hmm
15:14<ompaul>SmitySmiter: it may be that installing these random things did a lot of damage and a clean reinstall might be more sane
15:14<ompaul>SmitySmiter: depends on the investment you want to make in keeping the box exactly as it is
15:14<SmitySmiter>oh god, I did it just yesterday :'(
15:14<ompaul>SmitySmiter: it's not that hard
15:14<ompaul>1.5 hours start to finish and most of it is automatic
15:15<SmitySmiter>yea, but I setting up my Graphics card driver is really a chore :(
15:15<ompaul>just come here for all of it
15:15<SmitySmiter>hmm
15:15<SmitySmiter>thank you :)
15:15<ompaul>what kind of card is it#
15:15<ompaul>?
15:15<SmitySmiter>ATI Radeon HD5000, on a Sony Vaio
15:15*ompaul hopes not bumble bee
15:15<SmitySmiter>right now it's all installed and running fine
15:16<ompaul>https://wiki.debian.org/ATIProprietary
15:16-!-loner269 [~loner269@96-38-240-226.static.gwnt.ga.charter.com] has joined #debian
15:16<ompaul>were those the instructions you followed?
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15:16<SmitySmiter>nope
15:16<SmitySmiter>that broke my PC
15:16<loner269>hi all
15:17<ompaul>you did the HD5000 version on the bottom?
15:17<SmitySmiter>yea
15:17-!-trifolio6 [~h@62.43.62.203.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
15:17<SmitySmiter>the one for Wheezy
15:17<ompaul>SmitySmiter: this one here this exact one not the one above it https://wiki.debian.org/ATIProprietary#wheezy-legacy
15:18<loner269>2 fast questions 1 whats knoppix channel couse i need help with this and 2 if theres not 1 can you guys help me?
15:18<SmitySmiter>umm, the one you showed is for HD 4000 and less
15:18<SmitySmiter>mine is HD 5000
15:19<ompaul>SmitySmiter: that is also the one for the 5000
15:19<SmitySmiter>For support of Radeon HD 4000, Radeon HD 3000 and Radeon HD 2000 series GPUs.
15:19<ompaul>read the top part what works with legacy
15:19<ompaul>and the link
15:19<ompaul>which points to the 13.1
15:19<ompaul>it is a legacy card
15:19<ompaul>olh damn
15:19<ompaul>sorry
15:19<SmitySmiter>:)
15:20<ompaul>Restart your system to enable the radeon blacklist.
15:20-!-Noskcaj [~Noskcaj@CPE-121-216-58-21.lnse1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #debian
15:20<ompaul>and you did that part also I'm looking for the simplest fails
15:20<SmitySmiter>I told you, right now everything works fine :)
15:20<mtn>loner269: knoppix is not supported in this channel
15:20<SmitySmiter>the graphics card part
15:20<ompaul>!knoppix
15:20<dpkg>Knoppix is _not_ Debian. Seek Knoppix help in freenode's #knoppix. Knoppix is a live CD distribution which is <based on Debian>, useful as a rescue CD, to test hardware, and for situations where you have access to a computer but it isn't Debian. http://www.knoppix.com/ unofficial: http://Debian-knoppix.alioth.Debian.org/ <Debian-live> is the Debian equivalent for publishing live systems.
15:21<SmitySmiter>http://support.amd.com/en-us/download/desktop?os=Linux%20x86_64 <- i did that, and followed this :http://support.amd.com/en-us/kb-articles/Pages/Catalyst-Linux-Installer-Notes.aspx
15:21<ompaul>I'm not going to even look :)
15:21<SmitySmiter>:D
15:21<ompaul>!ati
15:21<dpkg>Where possible, most ATI/AMD graphics processing units are supported using the open source "radeon" driver on Debian systems by default, ask me about <radeon>. To install the proprietary "fglrx" driver, ask me about <fglrx>; installing this directly from amd.com (i.e. with the AMD Catalyst installer) is not supported in #debian, please go to #ati on irc.freenode.net.
15:21<ompaul>but anyway
15:22<ompaul>SmitySmiter: ok, this may cause you more grief than it is worth, to remove stuff look in your /var/logs/apt/ directory and try to work out what and when you started doing your wine stuff
15:22<loner269>thank you i thought debian was same all around guess this is like gentoo is (were this there not kinda thing )sorry to bother you all have a good day
15:22<ompaul>SmitySmiter:
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15:23<SmitySmiter>hmm
15:23<SmitySmiter>I think I'll do a fresh install again...
15:23<SmitySmiter>thankfully have my Live USB intact
15:23<ompaul>SmitySmiter: which is why I pointed at the debian way to isntall cards
15:23<SmitySmiter>ah yes, that was another thing that bothered me
15:24<ompaul>amn
15:24<SmitySmiter>I downloaded a Debian + non-free packages
15:24<SmitySmiter>which was about 1.3GB, the silly thing had Nvidia installed by default
15:24<SmitySmiter>could you please tell me which one is the cleanest + safest?
15:24<mtn>SmitySmiter: I always use this: http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/
15:25<mtn>SmitySmiter: the netinstall is what I use
15:25<SmitySmiter>hmm
15:25<SmitySmiter>http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/amd64/iso-cd/ <- this one?
15:25<ompaul>SmitySmiter: that is a nice cd that mtn pointed at and the netinstall tends to do good work if you have reasonable bandwidth
15:25<SmitySmiter>it's just 236MB
15:25<SmitySmiter>bandwidth is fine
15:26<ompaul>SmitySmiter: if you wire yourself up during the install
15:26<SmitySmiter>the problem is, I had to nuke my HDD and do a fresh install because I prepared a live USB using Unetbootin
15:26<ompaul>it tends to be the best install (in a lot of peoples ideas)
15:26<ompaul>unetbootin is not good
15:26<SmitySmiter>hmm yep, that's possible
15:26-!-NomadJim__ [~NomadJim@dpc6744166248.direcpc.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:26<ompaul>!unetbootin
15:26<dpkg>UNetbootin (Universal Netboot Installer) allows creation of bootable USB drives for a variety of Linux distributions. http://unetbootin.sf.net/ Not recommended for use with Debian CD/DVD images, as it mangles the installer in cruel and unusual ways, resulting in hard to debug problems. Ask me about <hybrid images>, <usb install>, <win32diskimager>.
15:26<mtn>SmitySmiter: use these instructions: https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/ch04s03.html.en
15:27<SmitySmiter>well yea, that thing managed to cripple my laptop completely
15:27<ompaul>SmitySmiter: I've to head off, best advice I can give you
15:27<SmitySmiter>lost my windows installation along with it
15:27<SmitySmiter>thank you ompaul
15:27<SmitySmiter>mtn, thank you
15:27<ompaul>SmitySmiter: do it the debian way one step at a time and ask before you do something random
15:27<mtn>SmitySmiter: welcome
15:27<ompaul>i.e. follow something none debian
15:27<ompaul>we can generally get you over a hump if there is one
15:28<SmitySmiter>the problem is, I don't have a backup PC with which I can come in here when I mess up
15:28<ompaul>SmitySmiter: ok got couple of USB sticks?
15:28<SmitySmiter>yep
15:28<ompaul>if they can be nuked
15:28<SmitySmiter>yep
15:29<ompaul>do this wget knoppix debian live and a say aptosid all live cds test boot them
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15:29<ompaul>now you have "working stuff"
15:29<ompaul>then
15:30<ompaul>get the one above you copy them to the partition with wget (it is better than a browser)
15:30<SmitySmiter>umm, sorry, I'm confused
15:30<ompaul>ok
15:30<ompaul>in a terminal do this cd Desktop then wget https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/ch04s03.html.en
15:30-!-mtn [~mtn@dpc6744165097.direcpc.com] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
15:30<ompaul>watch what wget does
15:30<ompaul>it will grab the http image
15:30<SmitySmiter>all right
15:31<ompaul>you can get the images for the isos the same way
15:31<ompaul>then
15:31<SmitySmiter>isos?
15:31<ompaul>cat first.whatever.name.iso > /dev/sdb
15:31<SmitySmiter>ISOs ah ok
15:31<ompaul>I presume your stick is sdb
15:31<ompaul>it should not be mounted
15:31<ompaul>that will overwrite the stick
15:31<ompaul>with the image
15:31<ompaul>as the bootable image
15:32<SmitySmiter>ah, that's nice
15:32<ompaul>as I said test the live cds
15:32<ompaul>get a few different ones make sure you can connect to the internet with a couple of them
15:32<ompaul>different interfaces different levels of ease of use
15:32<SmitySmiter>why different ones?
15:32<ompaul>whatever suits you if you need to rescue yourself should the isntall go badly
15:33<SmitySmiter>ah
15:33<ompaul>and make sure your wired connection woirks
15:33<ompaul>works even
15:33<SmitySmiter>you meant, same ISO, multiple USBs?
15:33<ompaul>no
15:33<ompaul>I mean different images
15:33<ompaul>and different usbs
15:33<ompaul>including your install
15:34<SmitySmiter>hmm
15:34<ompaul>if you like say four of them put them on a page divided into four
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15:34<ompaul>one per quarter with it's name there after you make it
15:34<ompaul>you can test them all
15:34<ompaul>before you do nuke your box again
15:34<ompaul>obviously last to test is ... the installer
15:34<SmitySmiter>sigh, yea
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15:35<ompaul>SmitySmiter: it's simple enough - it just means you have many ways to get back on lines if something happens (it shouldn't but hey you didn't have fun the first time)
15:35<SmitySmiter>:D
15:35<SmitySmiter>it's all right, I've done it a few times
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15:36<SmitySmiter>btw, the netinstall will detect + download everything necessary?
15:36<ompaul>SmitySmiter: well get some insurance with a couple of different live cds anyway just icase
15:36-!-Orphey [~Orphey@ip-95-220-245-173.bb.netbynet.ru] has joined #debian
15:36<SmitySmiter>yep, will do :)
15:36<ompaul>SmitySmiter: if you are wired up it shouldn't have issues
15:36<SmitySmiter>yea, I have an ethernet connection
15:37<SmitySmiter>so, it'll detect + download automatically?
15:37<ompaul>SmitySmiter: I use one (well several) in work and I have many machines :)
15:37<bert>Meta-1
15:37<ompaul>not fully you have to tell it things like in an ordinary install but most of it is
15:37<SmitySmiter>hmm
15:37<ompaul>SmitySmiter: kde or gnome?
15:37<SmitySmiter>Gnome ^_^
15:37<ompaul>fine
15:37<ompaul>go get it have fun
15:37<SmitySmiter>thank you
15:38<ompaul>it is the default graphical install
15:38<SmitySmiter>yep
15:38<ompaul>I'm afk for a couple of hours
15:38<SmitySmiter>all right, I'll probably do it tomorrow morning :)
15:38<SmitySmiter>it's 1 AM in here
15:39<SmitySmiter>if I start doing it now, and god forbid, something hapeens
15:39<SmitySmiter>*happens
15:39<SmitySmiter>I won't be able to sleep :))
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15:44<ompaul>SmitySmiter: kick off the downloads
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16:03<aidalgol>Is there something more suitable than cron for one-off scheduled jobs?
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16:03<mgv>aidalgol: at
16:04<aidalgol>mgv: thanks!
16:04-!-pccomf [~pccomf@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fe50:4d06] has quit [Quit: pccomf]
16:04<mgv>you're welcome
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16:43<coster>hello
16:43<coster>everybody
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17:47<xiv_Durandal>hello
17:48<xiv_Durandal>I am currently installing debian jessie on a netbook using netinstall
17:48<xiv_Durandal>during apt setup when I pick a mirror it says bad Archive Mirrow
17:48<xiv_Durandal>*mirror
17:48<xiv_Durandal>I have tried several mirrors
17:48<xiv_Durandal>and it always gives me that message
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17:49<dvs>Don't use the jessie installer unless you're testing the installer itself
17:49<xiv_Durandal>then which one should I use?
17:50<dvs>the wheezy installer, then upgrade to jessie
17:50<xiv_Durandal>okay, anyways I am running jessie on this computer and I am pretty sure that I installed it using the jessie installer
17:51<xiv_Durandal>I'll try that i guess
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18:31<quinn>IDENTIFY
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18:38<Gabi>hola
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18:39<Marillion>dpkg: tell Gabi -about spanish
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19:44<emi>hi
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19:45<emi>holaaaaa
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20:14<SamB_laptop>Hmm, how am I supposed to know what the various cursors are intended to signify?
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20:28<BullHorn>hello. im new. i used ubuntu about 5 years ago and it was garbage
20:29<BullHorn>im doing some stuff with vmware atm so decided its a good time to test linux again. debian got the most votes
20:29<BullHorn>i have the i4670k cpu and want to install the .iso locally
20:29<BullHorn>which one should i download>
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20:30<dondelelcaro>BullHorn: you want the amd64 netinst or similar.
20:31<dondelelcaro>this is also documented in the installation guide
20:31<BullHorn>amd64, thats the one i was looking at but was really confused... why is it named amd? :x
20:31<Classified23>I want to install mailpile Beta. Could anyone help out? Is it in any of the repositories?
20:31<dondelelcaro>BullHorn: because AMD came out out with that instruction set first
20:31<BullHorn>the installation guide appears only after the download-an-image section, so i wasnt sure which to get
20:31<dondelelcaro>no worries
20:32<BullHorn>erm, im confused. how big is debian?
20:32<BullHorn>theres a cd version and a 3-dvd version?
20:33<dondelelcaro>BullHorn: it's actually significantly more than 3 DVDs, but you really only need the first CD. You can download everything else from the internet
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20:34<rudi_s>BullHorn: Even the netinstall CD is fine, if you have an active internet connection.
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20:36<BullHorn>ok
20:36<BullHorn>so ill get http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/7.6.0/amd64/iso-dvd/debian-7.6.0-amd64-DVD-1.iso
20:39<rudi_s>BullHorn: Only do this if you don't have an internet connection when installing.
20:39<rudi_s>Otherwise you just waste time, diskspace and the need to burn a dvd.
20:39<BullHorn>doesnt really matter
20:39<BullHorn>im installing this on vmware
20:39<rudi_s>BullHorn: Get the netinst cd, faster, smaller.
20:39-!-jalalsfs [~jalal@0001afc5.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
20:39<rudi_s>And you only download what you really need.
20:40<BullHorn>ok thanks
20:41<rudi_s>np
20:41<dune>BullHorn: http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/7.6.0/amd64/iso-cd/debian-7.6.0-amd64-netinst.iso
20:42<BullHorn>yeah thats the one im getting
20:42<BullHorn>already got*
20:42<BullHorn>:p
20:42<BullHorn>i guess the 3dvds come with all the 20-some-thousand repositories and shit?
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20:46<dune>BullHorn: It comes with more packages that could be downloaded by netinst installation or from console after install. Some people doesn't have constant Internet connection or have speed limits (i.e. in 3G mobile networks)
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20:48<BullHorn>yea
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20:53<dune>BullHorn: amd64 is good only if you enable multi-core support in vmware (check in preferences; should be enabled by default)
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20:58<tetractwist>hi all .... I create my .iso bae deban ... I change etc/sources.lst for add ubuntu-studio source .. I use apt-get update/ugrade etc... BUT apt-get no install all packet .. I haven't got ubuntu-studio package .... what is the terminal commande for install all please ;-)
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21:09<dune>tetractwist: AFAIU, see man apt-get and look for 'source' command.
21:09<fantasma>i'm configuring dovecot, and there's a problem... not sure if it's telnet-related, it could be also dns related; so: knows anybody an alternative for telnet? 'nc' seems to be good, and it gives the same result as telnet, but maybe there is something else???
21:09<sney>nc and telnet are pretty much it, fantasma
21:10-!-Scar3cr0w [~Scar3cr0w@173-13-173-53-sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #debian
21:10<sney>there are a couple different variants of nc
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21:10<sney>tetractwist: are you trying to mix debian and ubuntu-studio? that is not going to work.
21:10<BullHorn>ah thats a good point
21:10<BullHorn>i use 4cores in windows... would be better to use 4cores in vm to share the load, or set it to 1 core?
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21:11<fantasma>sney: if they're already close... should i search for another alternative for telnet, or should i think that the host itself maybe the problem?
21:12<sney>the host is likely the problem. telnet does extremely simple things. if dovecot is failing your telnet test, then dovecot is the problem
21:12<dune>BullHorn: depends on what you'll do, but leave at least 2 cores enabled
21:12<sney>(assuming you're connected to the right port etc)
21:12<BullHorn>just general use.. learning how2linux etc
21:12<fantasma>hmmm
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21:13<dune>BullHorn: It'll work excellent with 2 cores and you wouldn't notice any difference.
21:13<sney>so, what problem is dovecot having?
21:14<fantasma>hmmm i'm not sure if its directly an dovecot-problem. during the first configuration... i have to test the imap... by the command : 'telnet imap.example.com 143'.
21:15<sney>right, where imap.example.com is replaced with the ip address of your dovecot server
21:15<tetractwist>sney : i want test custom linux ( just: 1base + 1 new source) for next -> live-build for create iso .... if it's good after i test crate real iso custom
21:15<sney>working dovecot will list its capabilities and finish with "Dovecot ready."
21:15<fantasma>telnet AND nc r working very well with other domains... now i'm a little bit confused...
21:16<fantasma>yeah. exactly this happens by trying: telnet localhost 143, but not at the other one, the error is:
21:16<sney>tetractwist: you should learn more about how 1 distro works before you go trying to mix and customize them. I recommend the debian handbook. http://debian-handbook.info/browse/stable/
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21:17<fantasma>telnet: could not resolve imap.example.com/143: Name or service not known.
21:17<sney>and for the proper idiot check you aren't actually typing example.com right?
21:17<BullHorn>hmmm this is debian 7... my vmware only knows debian 5
21:17<BullHorn>im running vmware 7 because im having flickering issues in newer versions of vmware
21:17<dune>BullHorn: it doesn't matter
21:18<BullHorn>ok
21:18<BullHorn>how much room would you assign to the partition btw?
21:18<fantasma>no, i'm typing imap.example.com 143. :/
21:19<sney>example.com is a fixed "example" domain used for documentation, it's reserved, and it does not point to your server
21:19<dune>BullHorn: 10GB on harddrive should be fine
21:19<sney>use your server's public or external ip address
21:19<BullHorn>and the ram dune?
21:20<fantasma>could i test the imap functionallity also in this way, sney?
21:20<dune>BullHorn: You should see vmware hint about that. Try recommended value first, then you can change it any time.
21:20<tetractwist>i have Dl manual ;) ... and I see man apt-get and source option ;) thx you ;)
21:21<BullHorn>this is old vmware and it thinks its debian 5... recommended like 512mb lol
21:21<dune>tetractwist: ;)
21:21<dune>BullHorn: wihout GUI it's more than enough
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21:22<fantasma>i mean, its an configuration guide. a little bit like a tutorial. if you want, take a look : http://wiki2.dovecot.org/TestInstallation
21:22<sney>fantasma: yes, that's what I'm saying. for instance if your dovecot server's LAN ip were 192.168.1.2 you could do 'telnet 192.168.1.2 143' and get dovecot's messages, as long as dovecot is listening on that interface. and you can do the same with the public ip if it's forwarded to the internet
21:22-!-dark-jedi [~dark-jedi@65.24.136.93] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
21:22<sney>I maintain a production dovecot server so I'm pretty familiar with testing and configuring it
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21:23<fantasma>ok, i'll do what you say. i'm just confused, it's the first time for me... al the mua mta mda... wow! XD
21:25<fantasma>so what are you saying about dovecot and exim? i would prefer postfix.
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21:27<BullHorn>something is wrong with the vm... as i press install, it says the CPU turned off lol
21:27<sney>fantasma: I prefer postfix as well
21:28<tetractwist>bye ;) thx you ++ ;)
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21:29<dune>BullHorn: http://www.eightforums.com/attachments/tutorials/2501d1317843134-vmware-player-install-windows-8-step8.jpg
21:29<dune>BullHorn: check you have 2 processors and intel VT enabled
21:30-!-chitchat [~guest@d122-111-5-53.meb804.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:30<sney>or just use virtualbox instead
21:30<fantasma>fantastic, first i'll try it with exim4 if this wouldnt make me happy... i'll ask you for how to remove exim4 from my box..
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21:30<sney>exim4 and postfix and sendmail and qmail (and others?) all do the same thing, they are just configured differently, so the important thing is just what you're comfortable with.
21:31<sney>I find exim's command line interface pretty friendly but the configuration is much messier than postfix, and I have integration with amavis, so I use postfix
21:32<BullHorn>i tried that dune, doesnt help
21:33<BullHorn>i tried 2 cpus 1 core each, 1 cpu 2 cores, VT-x AMD-V, VT-x/EPT AMD-V/RVI
21:33<BullHorn>same error
21:33<fantasma>sure, but they're all imitating the sendmail commandline, no? i read in some comparisions that postfix beats exim4 and sendmail, even in security. i never used an mta so... from this point i could start from every point.
21:33<sney>yep
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21:42<dune>BullHorn: Try to disable "Easy Install" and check "I will install the operating system later".
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21:45<BullHorn>ill have to install it via network though? ;x
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21:46<dune>BullHorn: Yes, you've downloaded netinst iso. Browse for that file in VM
21:47<BullHorn>no if i choose 'i will install later', it doesnt let you choose the iso
21:47<dune>BullHorn: ... VM's preferences (CD/DVD drive) and installation wil pop-up
21:47<BullHorn>ah ok gotta load it with daemon than
21:47<BullHorn>i was trying to load the .iso directly in the vm
21:47<BullHorn>sec
21:49<BullHorn>nope, same error
21:49<BullHorn>._.
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21:53<Sebastian>Is villa.debian.org not responding on ipv6 for anyone else?
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---Logclosed Sun Sep 14 00:00:07 2014