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#debian IRC Logs for 2014-09-20

---Logopened Sat Sep 20 00:00:18 2014
00:05-!-jra [~jra@cpe-24-29-234-80.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #debian
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03:02<helmut_>hi
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05:28-!-andrea is now known as Guest289
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05:30<Guest289>amazing spiderman ita
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05:35<sylar>when building the kernel package, how to make it build only amd64 arch?
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05:41<monod2>hello, I have a terrific issue
05:41<monod2>I'm gonna paste the text
05:41-!-lupine [~lupine@ur.gs] has joined #debian
05:42<monod2>please help with this! http://paste.debian.net/hidden/65cd9386/
05:45<monod2>please, it's really serious and I can't do anything
05:45<monod2>linux won't boot!
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05:53<lord_rob>Hi! I have a cheap usb key and a kingston key. I'd like to benchmark them. How do I do that on Linux?
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06:01<AlaPietila>http://www.jamescoyle.net/how-to/599-benchmark-disk-io-with-dd-and-bonnie
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06:06<lord_rob>thank you AlaPietila
06:07<monod2>my pc can't boot!
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06:09<dario`>monod2: in the rescue shell, what does the following output: find /dev/disk
06:09<monod2>hi dario`, keyboard does not work either
06:09<monod2>and I dunno why is this bad
06:09<dario`>uh..
06:09-!-Big-Blue [~seriousgu@ip4d15147b.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined #debian
06:09<monod2>oh well, I have an idea after all
06:10<monod2>my pc crashed several times
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06:10<monod2>so lots of hard reboots yesterday
06:10<monod2>I thought the hdd got corrupted, maybe
06:11<dario`>how many hard disks do you have in your pc? how many partitions? on which one is debian installed?
06:11<monod2>or the grub loader
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06:11<monod2>1 hdd, 4 partitions (1 is a logical partition, containing other 4 partitions iirc)
06:11<monod2>can't recall which partition was debian installed
06:12<monod2>and I'm trying to boot from a live xubuntu cdrom right now
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06:12<monod2>first try: live cd can't boot and I get the same error!
06:13<monod2>the same as in the paste!
06:13<monod2>pardon, linux mint's live cd
06:13<devil>monod2: your prob is: ALERT! /dev/disk/by-uuid/bda15f9f-3f66-4d22-929e-476c8bd1e7df does not exist.
06:13<monod2>indeed
06:13<devil>monod2: you need to change fstab to the real uuid
06:13<monod2>can I simply change the grub arguments?
06:13<monod2>devil, ^
06:13<devil>monod2: blkid will tell you about that
06:14<monod2>devil, I cannot enter my system
06:14<devil>not the arguments, the uuid
06:14<devil>monod2: there is chroot or live cd
06:14<monod2>devil, uuid is passed to grub as an argument
06:14<monod2>devil: live cd can't boot, it gives me the same error
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06:14<monod2>devil: "unable to find a medium containing a live file system" after having dropped to busybox!
06:15<devil>monod2: that makes not mich sense
06:15<monod2>devil: worst part is the keyboard does not work when I have the busybox!
06:15<devil>monod2: try a different live cd or preferably chroot
06:16<monod2>chroot? how if I can't access the system?
06:17<monod2>devil, ^
06:17<devil>well, you need a working live cd first
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06:17<monod2>ok devil
06:18<monod2>mint13 live cd is working, in "compatibility mode"!!!
06:18<monod2>:motherofgod:
06:18<monod2>devil ^
06:18<devil>no idea what compatibility mode is
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06:19<monod2>me neither but it works with full desktop environment ! :)))
06:19<monod2>whlie the "normal" live cd mode gets stuck at the same error screen
06:19<monod2>devil ^
06:19<monod2>so, I now can open a terminal a type some commands.. devil, what first?
06:19<devil>ok, so find out the real uuid for your / with blkid and change it
06:20<devil>monod2: I need to go, I am at work :(
06:20<monod2>devil, ok, but thank you devil!
06:20<devil>yw
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06:20<devil>google knows about chroot
06:21<monod2>nah
06:21<monod2>lol
06:21<monod2>dgg knows better :P (maybe)
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06:31<monod2>devil, I dont' want to disturb and I don't know if you can write anymore, but I successfully found my partitions with sudo fdisk -l and my uuids with sudo blkid
06:31<monod2>(only thing now is that I don't know what to do next)
06:32<devil>like I said, edit fstab to have the right uuid for /
06:32<monod2>uh ok
06:33<devil>it does not boot because fstab has the wrong uuid
06:33<devil>i guess you formated the partition
06:33<monod2>nopenope
06:33<devil>or something the like
06:33<monod2>didn't touch anything :D only uninstalled some packages with aptitude yesterday, but never left any of them "broken"
06:35<monod2>oh my...
06:35<monod2>uh, nothing, nvm :D
06:37<monod2>ok, now I can see both /'s and /boot/'s uuids
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06:39<monod2>gonna eat something
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07:12<monod2>devil, are you busy?
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07:17-!-mode/#debian [+l 656] by debhelper
07:17-!-m2og3 [~m2og3@85-192-178-216.dsl.esoo.ru] has joined #debian
07:18<m2og3>Hello!
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07:25<m2og3>Hello!
07:25<monod2>if you have a question you'd better spit it out
07:26<monod2>otherwise, hello to you too!
07:26<monod2>(I'm here for asking help as well)
07:26<monod2>(I can help on basic things)
07:28<m2og3>Where can I go
07:28<monod2>what do you need?
07:28<m2og3>I have a question on programming language with ++ ?
07:28<monod2>c++?
07:28<m2og3>yes
07:29<monod2>you can join a related channel
07:29<monod2>it's like...
07:29<monod2>#c++ or ##c++ or #cplusplus or even ##cplusplus
07:29<monod2>can't recall which one
07:29<monod2>I think the second one
07:30-!-bluenemo [~bluenemo@p579549BA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #debian
07:30<m2og3>well now try
07:32<m2og3>but there is something else?
07:32<m2og3>there's just no one has(((
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07:33<monod2>there's just no one in there?
07:33<monod2>oops
07:33<monod2>sorry
07:33<monod2>it's not on OFTC server, but on freenode!
07:33<monod2>connect to chat.freenode.net
07:33<monod2>then enter that channel
07:33-!-kilian__ [~kilian@neu67-3-82-239-81-116.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
07:33<monod2>the second in the list above
07:33<monod2>and you're ready to go
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07:34<m2og3>So what kind of server I need to use?
07:35-!-Regiss [~bugtraq@177.158.128.233] has quit []
07:35<monod2>use this: /server chat.freenode.net
07:35<monod2>it will make you connect to Freenode
07:35<monod2>then this: /j #c++
07:35<monod2>you'll prolly be redirected to ##c++
07:35<monod2>and then you are there
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07:36<monod2>devil, all uuids were correct, but the system won't start anyway! :(
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07:37<monod2>oh sorry, you're away
07:40<devil>monod2: [12:13:26] <devil> monod2: your prob is: ALERT! /dev/disk/by-uuid/bda15f9f-3f66-4d22-929e-476c8bd1e7df does not exist. <== I'd rather believe that
07:40<devil>monod2: so please pastebin the output of blkid
07:40<monod2>ok
07:40<monod2>devil
07:40<devil>and have some patience, iit might take me a few
07:41<monod2>for me it's ok, it depends if it's ok for you too
07:49<monod2>devil, here you go: http://paste.debian.net/hidden/2577f3c5/
07:49<monod2>thaaaank you! :))
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07:54<monod2>oh my LOL
07:55<monod2>devil, I can see that... in the system's /dev/ folder... the disk/ folder does not exist!!!!
07:55<monod2>devil: I'm seeing it from the live cd
07:55<monod2>devil: is it possible I've uninstalled some useful program that used to keep trace of uuids in that folder?
07:56<monod2>I think I could try and use /dev/sdaX instead of UUIDs in fstab and see if it works
07:57<monod2>(also, I think I could reinstall such package if that was the case!)
07:57-!-devil is now known as devil_
07:58<devil_>monod2: /dev/sda7: UUID="bda15f9f-3f66-4d22-929e-476c8bd1e7df
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07:58<devil_>that is the one
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07:58<monod2>devil, yes, it's /
07:58<monod2>and it's correct
07:59<devil_>and sda7 exists?
07:59<monod2>of course
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07:59<monod2>it's the partition to which / gets mounted everytime
07:59<devil_>that is strange, but you can remove the uuid and see if that helps
07:59<monod2>ok, also note that I don't have /dev/disk folder
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08:00<devil_>that could be your problem
08:00<monod2>trying with /dev/sdaX
08:00<monod2>let you know later
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08:12<monod2>devil_, 1) the boot still looks for /dev/disk/by-uuid/ for instructions, so I really need to understand what package makes up those folder and if I accidentally uninstalled it 2) for the moment, since I've seen that those are links to devices, I'll try to make the system boot manually creating those links; and manually removing them afterwards
08:12<monod2>meanwhile, thanks for your support!
08:12<monod2>I was clueless before!
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08:17<monod2>...and they just reappeared by themselves! D:
08:17<monod2>:wtf:
08:17<devil_>magic
08:17-!-wnkz [~wnkz@212-198-162-103.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #debian
08:17<monod2>it seems D:
08:18<monod2>also severalother folder reappeared that were before missing.....
08:18<monod2>I'll try to boot agai nthen
08:19<captnfab>I think the /dev/disk folder is created by udev
08:20<captnfab>dunno if it's relevant for your pb
08:20<monod2>captnfab, here are the pastes of the case: http://paste.debian.net/hidden/65cd9386/, http://paste.debian.net/hidden/2577f3c5/
08:20<monod2>and devil_, it solved nothing! :D
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08:21<captnfab>monod2: recently played with systemd/udev ?
08:22<monod2>captnfab, I didn't. But I uninstalled lots of packages with aptitude yesterday, caring about not breaking other packages
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08:24<captnfab>:)
08:24<monod2>captnfab, what are you thinking?
08:24<captnfab>try apt-get install systemd-sysv udev
08:24<monod2>uhm
08:24<monod2>wait, I can't access my syste3m
08:24<captnfab>you can still chroot on it
08:24<monod2>uhm
08:24<monod2>so I suppose I have to use the correct repositories?
08:25<monod2>or chrooting already sets that directories too?
08:25<monod2>oh wow
08:25<monod2>I just have to chroot
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08:25<monod2>it seems
08:25<captnfab>basically, yes
08:25<monod2>automagic, nice.
08:25<monod2>trying it now.
08:25<captnfab>but before chrooting, you chould bind the host's /dev to the to-be-chrooted /
08:26<monod2>should?
08:26<captnfab>should, yeah xD
08:26<monod2>captnfab, first of all: mounting both / and /boot, right? (I have separate partitions for them and for home and swap)
08:26<captnfab>and after chrooting, mounting /proc is often nececarry too
08:26<captnfab>1) mount / to /mnt
08:26<captnfab>2) mount /boot to /mnt/boot
08:27<captnfab>3) mount -o bind /dev /mnt/dev
08:27<captnfab>4) chroot /mnt
08:27<captnfab>5) mount proc -t proc /proc
08:27<captnfab>and then profit
08:27<monod2>0) I was going to ask you such a list but you preceded me xD thank you!
08:27<monod2>"profit" XD
08:27<captnfab>:)
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08:29<monod2>so I'm now going to run that aptitude command
08:31<monod2>incredible, captnfab... systemd-sysv and systemd were not installed!
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08:32<monod2>also, captnfab, it says "you are about to do something potentially harmful. To continue type in the phrase ..."
08:32<monod2>safe?
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08:32<captnfab>ah wait
08:32<monod2>K
08:33<captnfab>were you running wheezy ?
08:33<monod2>uhmm, ya
08:33<monod2>deb7
08:33<monod2>aka wheezy
08:33<captnfab>ok, then don't install systemd-sysv
08:33<captnfab>just udev
08:33<monod2>ok
08:34<captnfab>and make sure sysvinit is installed
08:34<captnfab>(to remove udev, you made a hell of a cleanup…)
08:34<monod2>captnfab, and indeed both udev and sysvinit already are installed :(
08:34<captnfab>ok
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08:36<monod2>..and now? :(
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08:37<monod2>oh, also: what does the "usb 1-2" error show up at boot time? captnfab do you know?
08:37<monod2>the one you can see in the first paste
08:37<monod2>and also, I have no keyboard during the boot time
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08:37<monod2>only up to grub
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08:46<monod2>no ideas captnfab ?
08:49<ompaul>is this a box you can't access using grub after days of trying?
08:49<captnfab>I'm back, sorry, my wireless card was angry about me
08:50<jjacklin>hello, I have got an issue with my network card of which is a broadcom wireless card of which the wireless keeps dropping out. I have installed the b43 broadcom driver and everything but it just randomly drops out is there anything I can do?
08:50<captnfab>xD
08:50<ompaul>jjacklin: what version of debian
08:50<jjacklin>latest version, is it wheezy?
08:50<ompaul>jjacklin: cat /etc/debian_version
08:51<ompaul>jjacklin: that will tell
08:51<ompaul>you
08:51<monod2>ops read you now
08:51<jjacklin>just booting it up says debian gnu with linux 3.2.0-4-amd 64
08:51<jjacklin>but will run that command when its booted
08:52<monod2>ompaul, this evening it will be 1day of trying, and I have important things on this computer
08:52<monod2>I have access to grub
08:52<ompaul>monod2: get a live cd backup your data
08:52<monod2>ompaul, but when I boot debian, I lose keyboard control and it does not boo
08:52<monod2>t
08:52<ompaul>clean install -
08:52<monod2>ompaul, uh
08:52<captnfab>monod2: do you have external storage disks or things like that plugged in ?
08:52<monod2>captnfab, nope :(
08:53<monod2>ompaul, understood
08:53<monod2>captnfab, it's strange because there's no USB attached at all
08:53<monod2>I'm really sad
08:53<captnfab>yeah, maybe the usb controller fails…
08:54<captnfab>have you tried changing the fstab ?
08:54<monod2>captnfab, yes, /dev/sdaX in place of UUIDs
08:54<monod2>it still pops the same error message as the first paste
08:54<captnfab>ok
08:55<captnfab>have you changed the uuid in the kernel boot line too?
08:55<ompaul>jjacklin: you have two minutes gone - it must have booted
08:55<monod2>tried to play with it captnfab
08:55<ompaul>jjacklin: or it is about a million years old :)
08:55<monod2>and it does nothing :( captnfab
08:55<monod2>captnfab, to me it seems the boot process reads some isntructions elsewhere
08:55<monod2>and I don't know where
08:55<monod2>nor why
08:55<monod2>nor why they fail.
08:55<jjacklin>yeah sorry the kdewallet is being a dick and wont let it authenticate despite the fact I am inputting the right password
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08:56<ompaul>jjacklin: ssh will tell you as with a terminal cat it
08:56<captnfab>monod2: you've changed the kernel command line in grub at boot-time or in grub config ?
08:56<monod2>boot-time, captnfab, only temporary edit then
08:56<jjacklin>version 7.6
08:56<captnfab>ok, and Ctrl-x to boot gave the same message?
08:57<monod2>yep, exactly, captnfab
08:57<ompaul>jjacklin: how old is the computer?
08:58<captnfab>tried to re-generate the initramfs ?
08:58<jjacklin>not that old
08:58<jjacklin>lenovo g505
08:58<monod2>no, dunno how to do and what it is, captnfab
08:58<captnfab>update-initramfs -u (to do in the chrooted environment)
08:59<monod2>captnfab, (did you get linux experience by trial-and-error only or is there anything one can study to become linux competent?)
08:59<monod2>captnfab, trying that now
08:59<ompaul>jjacklin: ok, so this is the right way to do it: https://wiki.debian.org/bcm43xx if it fails and you have good signal strenght I'd say get a usb wireless thingy and disable the native onboard one but it should be ok if you match the driver and distance aren't too bad
09:00<monod2>captnfab, update complete
09:00<monod2>captnfab, reboot?
09:00<captnfab>trial-and-error is a good way to start and to be able to understand docs :)
09:00<captnfab>yep, reboot
09:00<ompaul>monod2: there is only one life you can spend it being interesting doing days of useless configuration and get nowhere because something is broken and you are not getting anywhere, or you can fix the problem, live cd backup data, clean install, move on
09:00<monod2>ompaul, I see your point
09:01<ompaul>captnfab: trial and terror is a waste of time - read the right doc right the first time and get on with the next task
09:01<ompaul>:)
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09:01<captnfab>trial-and-error is training your mind
09:01<monod2>:D
09:01<captnfab>all but a waste of time :)
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09:01<monod2>rebooted!
09:01<monod2>let's see now.
09:02<jjacklin>thank you ompaul, I wish it was easier to get firmwares offline as all of debians tutorials rely on an internet connection which is all well and good but if you have an issue like this where the drives are not included by default and you havent got access to a secondary computer its a bit rubbish. But I will give it a go and thank you
09:02*monod2 crosses fingers.
09:02<ompaul>na - trial and terror breaks good knowledge into superstition and dancing backwards around a table :)
09:02<jjacklin>drivers*
09:02<monod2>captnfab, first of all, usb error messages as before
09:02<monod2>in seconds i'll see what's next
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09:03<captnfab>ompaul: sounds great to me :) already tried that? :P
09:03<ompaul>jjacklin: the way to approach these things is get the firmware upfront or install over wire, if you want todo that get a live cd do your lspci and investigations get the firmware onto a usb stick and drop it in place as soon as you do the install, you could also consider firmware enabled installs
09:03<ompaul>!kmoto
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09:03<monod2>captnfab, same result!
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09:03<captnfab>ok, well, too bad, no more idea for now :)
09:03<ompaul>!ping
09:03<dpkg>pong
09:03<monod2>Imma reboot into live cd again
09:04<ompaul>!kmoto
09:04<monod2>oh ok
09:04<monod2>T___T
09:04<ompaul>bot with a memory lapse
09:04<monod2>should I clean install in your opinion too? captnfab
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09:04<ompaul>!firmware image
09:04<dpkg>Unofficial <netinst> images - containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages - for installing Debian 7 "Wheezy" are available from http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/ . See also <install guide>.
09:04<jjacklin>yeah I tried the firmware enabled install and it was rubbsih worked all the way up untill the actual point of which it needed the connection and died leaving me with an unusable os lol
09:04<ompaul>jjacklin: ^^
09:05<captnfab>well, unless you think of a more efficient way to fix your system, yes you should :) but make backups first… :P
09:05<gsimmons>ompaul: Those don't include firmware for the b43/b43legacy drivers, due to lack of redistribution permission.
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09:05<ompaul>gsimmons: lovely
09:05<jjacklin>lol
09:05<ompaul>jjacklin: in that case go visit pool.debian.net and pick one up
09:06<ompaul>you can get it out of your local repo
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09:06<captnfab>yeah, there are downloader packages, but… they are downloader packages, need a working connection…
09:06<jjacklin>well its all installed and operational so will your guide that you sent me above still be relevant
09:06<monod2>captnfab, ofcourse
09:06<ompaul>jjacklin: depends on what you did - if you didn't pick exactly the right driver
09:06<monod2>trying live cd in normal (not "compatibility") mode now
09:07<ompaul>see the page with that I've to disappear
09:07<monod2>in normal mode I get the same result
09:07<monod2>no keyboard, and after a while the unusable busybox
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09:09<jjacklin>well what I did I googled the firmware which took me to debians page and downloaded the .deb file and installed it once the os was installed and it kinda works but as soon as I go to do any package updates or anything boom the connection dies
09:09-!-wnkz [~wnkz@212-198-162-103.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #debian
09:09<ompaul>https://packages.debian.org/squeeze/all/firmware-b43-installer/download
09:09<jjacklin>so I believe I have the correct driver, but then on another forum it was talking about adjusting signal strengths
09:10<ompaul>forums are not wiki.debian which is fairly good and ime a better example where documentation exists
09:10<ompaul>that's squeeze but you can put in wheezy there
09:10<ompaul>and so on
09:11<blurame>hi all, sorry if the question may be basic, but on the web i didn't found the informations i was looking for... just was wondering what security.debian.org archive provides... what if it's removed from sources.list? security updates don't come anyways updating from the main archive?
09:11<petn-randall>blurame: They only come through security.debian.org.
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09:12<monod2>curiosity: what if I install Mint?
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09:12<blurame>petn-randall: so the code is fixed by the debian guys and the package is then updated?
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09:13<petn-randall>blurame: Yes, the security team provides fixes exclusively through security.debian.org.
09:14<monod2>hi petn-randall, can you have a look at this? http://paste.debian.net/hidden/65cd9386/
09:14<jjacklin>is there a command I can run to tell me my devices like ethernet etc so I can source the correct drivers?
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09:15<petn-randall>monod2: Don't ask for people, ask your question. What's the context of this paste?
09:15<blurame>petn-randall: thanks. but let's say a bug is found and fixed by the debian security team. is it possible the software developer implements a different fix or do they collaborate with debian?
09:15<monod2>petn-randall, the lines of the error I see at boot on my system
09:16<monod2>ops, context, not content
09:16<monod2>context = my pc cannot boot and shows those messages
09:17-!-mode/#debian [+l 662] by debhelper
09:17<petn-randall>blurame: The most of the time collaborate with upstream. It's all explained in detail on the website security.debian.org though.
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09:17<monod2>as a plus, petn-randall, the keyboard does not work so I cannot enter any cmd
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09:17<petn-randall>monod2: I'm guessing your keyboard is USB? What release is this, and what steps happened before that resulted in the unbootable system?
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09:18<monod2>petn-randall, ps/2 keyboard, release is wheezy and I don't know what the steps are
09:19<monod2>I only know that the last "system" tasks I did was to uninstall some packages I previously installed, caring not to leave broken packages in between
09:19<jjacklin>that leads me to ask a question about debian, how comes that all these variants of the debian system have support for drivers and equipment or work more fluidly and yet everything for debian has to be fabricated. Is it because of laws and licensing or is it down to the stability of drivers or what? As much as I like debian thats always baffled me
09:19<monod2>petn-randall, ^
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09:19<monod2>jjacklin, ubuntu, for example, should have some partenships
09:19<monod2>maybe that might account for more drivers availability
09:19<monod2>just supposition though
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09:20<monod2>but that's what I know
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09:20<jjacklin>and that the live cd usually works better than when its actually installed. I bet when you went through the installer the keyboard worked
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09:21<blurame>petn-randall: yeah, i gave a look at it but i don't seem to find an answer... what i mean is: at some point, a debian user may have running on its machine a "debian-customized" version of the software which is not the software provided by the developer?
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09:21<petn-randall>monod2: Ah, I see. The first four lines mention a USB device that doens't get recognized, which is why I assumed that. The initramfs doens't find the root partition anymore, did you change any config files? Which files did you uninstall?
09:21<monod2>jjacklin, I think a live cd is comparable to any clean install, that's why they work
09:21<petn-randall>blurame: How so?
09:22<monod2>petn-randall, didn't touch any config :( thanks for help! I've uninstalled lots of games and programs that really have nothing to do with configurations... :( just prorgams I wanted to try and never used again, so I finally got the spare head-time to remove them
09:22<blurame>petn-randall: if the debian security team updates a package indipendently from the upstream developer
09:23<petn-randall>blurame: Lots of software gets modified to suite the needs of Debian users. There's usually a reason for that though, a Debian Developer doesn't divert from upstream "for fun", and it's usually frowned upon, which is why there need to be good reasons.
09:23<petn-randall>blurame: iceweasel/icedove/iceape being one example.
09:24<petn-randall>monod2: If you can't type, try booting from a live image, maybe we can debug it from there.
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09:25<monod2>petn-randall, already am there :D and captnfab already showed me how to chroot to my system! Btw, I've now read that I could try and add "rootdelay=150" to the "kernel /boot/vmlinuz..." line in grub, at boot time or in config file for persistence
09:25<monod2>link here: http://www.blogs.digitalworlds.net/softwarenotes/?p=178
09:26<monod2>but that would only work if that was the problem, which I don't think it is... can we debug?
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09:27<petn-randall>monod2: Sure. In your live system, can you paste the output of 'ls -al /dev/disk/by-uuid'?
09:27<blurame>petn-randall: yes i imagine... so i guess if debian guys write a fix, the code is updated upstream too. but why keeping an archive just for security purposes and don't merge into the main one?
09:27<monod2>petn-randall, after chrooting?
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09:29<petn-randall>blurame: Because the main archive is a lot larger and gets mirrored a lot slower around the world. The security archive is on servers that are all under Debians control, and thus updated without delay.
09:29<petn-randall>monod2: Should make a difference if the chroot is done right.
09:29<petn-randall>*shouldn't
09:29<monod2>i am not currently chrooted, this is what I mean
09:29<monod2>petn-randall, ^
09:29<blurame>petn-randall: yes seems fair
09:30<petn-randall>monod2: Not chrooted is fine.
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09:30<monod2>ok
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09:32<petn-randall>blurame: For some critical bugs timing is of essence, and the main archive gets mirrored maybe twice a day (don't know it exactly, you'd have to ask the ftp masters), and sometimes there are mirros mirroring of other mirrors, so there's easily a > 24 hour delay. For a bug like the "heartbleed" one this would be too long.
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09:33<leandro>kkk
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09:33<blurame>petn-randall: yes that's true, security must have an higher priority
09:34<monod2>petn-randall, paste.debian.net/hidden/0c8218b3
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09:36<petn-randall>blurame: IIRC the packages from s.d.o get merged back to the main archive in the point releases, I guess s.d.o's bandwidth usage over time must look like a jigsaw. Ö=
09:36<blurame>petn-randall: once the package has been fixed and uploaded to security archive, does it enter the main archive too during the following mirrorings? or the main archive continues shipping a bugged versioin?
09:37<blurame>oh :)
09:38<petn-randall>blurame: Indeed . Which is why you should have it in your sources.list at all times :)
09:39<petn-randall>monod2: Comparing both your pastes, the root filesystem exists, so it might boot with rootdelay=X. How is the block device connected? Is it HDD/SDD? IDE/S-ATA?
09:39<monod2>hdd, sata
09:39<monod2>petn-randall, ^
09:40<blurame>petn-randall: yeah! :) merging in the main archive works the same for testing/jessie too, doesn't it?
09:40<monod2>when you'll agree, I'll add rootdelay=X
09:40<monod2>X in seconds?
09:40<monod2>petn-randall, ^
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09:44<petn-randall>monod2: It should really timeout like that on a SATA device, though. PC/Laptop? Is this a slow/special HDD? Try it with rootdelay, if that doesn't work, something happened to your initramfs and it doesn't contain the drivers for your SATA controller.
09:44<monod2>also, why is it needed to wait that long? petn-randall
09:44<monod2>PC, not laptop, petn-randall
09:44<monod2>ok, rebooting and trying it then!
09:44<monod2>thanks for help!
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09:46<monod2>petn-randall, lol, I have no line starting with "kernel".. only one starting with "linux" that resembles that syntax: "linux /vmlinuz-3.2.... etc"
09:46-!-junior is now known as Guest303
09:46<petn-randall>blurame: It's a little different, the security team won't act if there's already a fix migrating from sid to testing.
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09:47<petn-randall>monod2: That's the one, add rootdelay=30 to the end.
09:47<monod2>ok, done. And usb error messages are starting to pop up
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09:47<monod2>petn-randall, ^
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09:48<monod2>(should I point out that windows boots fine in the meanwhile?)
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09:49<blurame>petn-randall: mhh nice
09:50<monod2>petn-randall, same question I made earlier: did you get to your exp level through trial and error or did you get competent in another way?
09:50<monod2>(I made this question to somebody else)
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09:51<petn-randall>monod2: I learnt it all in my free time. Meeting up with Linux user groups helps a lot too, since you can casually exchange information a lot better than in written language.
09:52<petn-randall>monod2: At some point I took up a job in that area, that boosted my knowledge a lot, too.
09:52<monod2>do you see any future for linux and open source software vs. proprietary softwares? petn-randall
09:53<monod2>also: the error message just got displayed again! petn-randall. So what now?
09:53<monod2>(and still no keyboard)
09:53<blurame>petn-randall: so even on testing, is always valuable to have the security.debian.org archive in sources.list?
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09:54<jjacklin>see I work at a hosting company of which 90% of our systems is linux 10% windows, but I thought I would try debian as everyone raves about it being like the defacto and most distros are based off of it, I couldnt see the hype as it does what its meant to. It just the time its been around and the stability of it I could see
09:54<petn-randall>blurame: Yes, though it's not quite as important than with stable, since in testing it will get fixed in the main archive in ~2 days anyway.
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09:55<petn-randall>monod2: Join me on #debian-offtopic for the discussion of FOSS :)
09:55<monod2>yeeeeee!
09:56<monod2>a new friend to discuss with XD
09:56<petn-randall>monod2: If it fails to boot, reboot into the live system and prepare the chroot.
09:56<monod2>ok, preparing it then
09:56<petn-randall>monod2: I'll grab some food, will be back in a bit.
09:56<monod2>I'll be slow :D
09:56<monod2>xD
09:56<blurame>petn-randall: thanks, pieces are fitting :)
09:57<monod2>(I'll retrieve how to correctly chroot from past conversation)
09:57<petn-randall>blurame: You're welcome, if you have any more questions feel free to ask.
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09:59<blurame>petn-randall: so, a basic/normal debian installation should have two archives in sources.list: main and security
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10:02<monod2>Ok, chroot done. petn-randall
10:04<blurame>petn-randall: anyways you've been very helpful and clarified all of my doubts. thanks in the name of the free knowledge ;)
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10:10<jjacklin>interesting, I have found this link that asks me to run a command to fix my wifi yet the file isnt in the right location it tells me to run sudo touch /etc/modeprobe.d/b43/conf
10:10<jjacklin>but that location doesnt exist on my laptop any ideas to where it might be
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10:13<blubberdiblub>jjacklin, shouldn't it be /etc/modprobe.d/b43.conf? and just touching it will probably not do anything apart from creating an empty config file. you will have to fill it with some content, too
10:13<supaman>and I guess following the guidlines on wiki would be better: https://wiki.debian.org/bcm43xx
10:14<jjacklin>well was trying to do this sudo touch /etc/modprobe.d/b43.conf
10:14<jjacklin>echo "options b43 pio=1 qos=0 | sudo tee -a /etc/modprobe.d/b43.conf I have looked on the wiki and literally all it says is to install the driver I have done that multiple times.
10:14<jjacklin>this is the link I have been reading. http://crunchbang.org/forums/viewtopic.php?pid=140261%23p140261#p140261
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10:19<gsimmons>jjacklin: The issue requiring that workaround was fixed in the b43 driver at Linux 3.0. Your system is using Linux 3.2.
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10:21<jjacklin>ah I see, then there is a possibility that there really isnt a way of fixing the issue then. man bloody cheap wireless cards
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10:24<gsimmons>jjacklin: You could try using Broadcom's proprietary driver (wl, aka broadcom-sta) which also supports the BCM4312. https://wiki.debian.org/wl has more information.
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10:26<jjacklin>cool thank you, I will try this at work
10:26<jjacklin>last ditch attempt
10:26<jjacklin>thank you for your help people
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10:31<jjacklin>looking good gsimmons
10:33<jjacklin>I will test this at work and if it works like a dream then debian should update there wiki for the b43 driverto say if this doesnt work then go here
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10:36<monod2>petn-randall, ?
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10:54<lamb>Hello, I just found out about DBUS being migrated to systemd, how much forced into systemd will I become if I continue using Debian?
10:55<supaman>default will be complete systemd, but you can continue using initd (or what ever you want)
10:55<lamb>does that mean that a barebones Debian install comes with systemd and I need to tune it up further for production?
10:56<supaman>the first part yes, not sure about the second part (depends on what you mean for production I guess)
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10:57<supaman>but I don't know much about this transition, perhaps someone else more knowledgable can chip in here
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11:01<lamb>But if stuff like udev and dbus becomes part of systemd, how will other systems work independent form it? It's like a virus, honestly...
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11:02<lamb>From my understanding, this change would make eg.: XFCE or gvfs dependent on systemd, whereas before we only had to swallow it because of the Gnome3 people
11:03<monod2>petn-randall, I'm afk now! cya later!
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11:04<petn-randall>lamb: The systemd discussion has already been beaten to death. It will likely become default in jessie. You can always fork and use the old init system, just like people did before with the Gnome2/Gnome3 transition, the move from OSS to ALSA, and many others.
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11:05<lamb>Fork what, petn-randall, the entire udev / dbus system?
11:05-!-gfedel [~kropotkin@186.214.50.134] has joined #debian
11:05<lamb>I'll have to ask if there are people working on it
11:06<ansgar>lamb: obody wants to maintain alterntives to systemd because they are happy with systemd.
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11:06<petn-randall>lamb: But I see a common theme amongst all those transitions: Theres always a small but loud group that complains, they fork, and the fork dies off after a year or so.
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11:07<lamb>A shame, really.
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11:11<peter1138>hmm, on shutdown, how can i get umountiscsi to run after libvirt-guests has completed, instead of before or alongside?
11:14<petn-randall>lamb: SysV init shown it's problems, systemd is the way to go. The only thing about the whole init war that was the most annoying was that the discussions hardly circled about technical aspects, but about the persons involved and quickly escalated into ad-hominem attacks and meta-discussions.
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11:16<jjacklin>wheyy my wireless is fixed. One step forwards
11:16<lamb>There was not much to discuss in technical aspects really. Why would I want a giant monolith / One Ring to handle my init when I had a working, stabñe set of UNIX utilities?
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12:05<rebli>Hi to all. What happened to /run/shm ? I don't have it !!! (I'm using sid, but on #debian-next nobody answered)
12:09-!-gomex [~gomex@177.42.224.43] has joined #debian
12:10<sney>it's saturday in america. both channels are a bit slow this time of the week
12:10<sney>I no longer have /run/shm either. I would guess that it has to do with the systemd switchover
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12:15<sney>rebli: do you have apt-listchanges? it would normally announce changes like that.
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12:20<AwaaXFrench>hello
12:20<AwaaXFrench>I have a big problem
12:20<AwaaXFrench>and i need help, if someone can help me ^^ (Someone who is good at debian)
12:21<MrFrood>!ask
12:21<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
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12:32<rebli>sney: a recent ugrade removed sysvinit-core, upgraded systemd, installed systemd-sysv. How can I view old listchanges?
12:37<sney>apt-get changelog packagenmame
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12:46<AwaaXFrench>!ask
12:46<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
12:47<AwaaXFrench>I have a problem with my disk, he is full
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12:47<mtn>AwaaXFrench: then you need to make some room by deleting things
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12:57<monod2>petn-randall, I see you're afk. When you'll want, I'll chroot back to the main system I have an issue with
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13:02<monod2>!smart questions
13:02<dpkg>Go here to find out how to ask intelligent questions: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html - Be sure to look at the section http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#before - This FAQ has information to help many users solve their own problem more effectively and to help users interact more effectively with helpers. Also ask me about <reportbug>.
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13:50<mikhail>hello
13:50<SnShines>hey
13:50<mikhail>i need help on something
13:51<SnShines>even i am new here
13:51<SnShines>how can i help you?
13:51<mikhail>ok
13:51<mikhail>heres the thing! i get this on apt-get update
13:51<mikhail>W: Ignoring Provides line with DepCompareOp for package libuv-dev
13:51<mikhail>W: You may want to run apt-get update to correct these problems
13:52<mikhail>every time i do sudo apt-get update
13:52<mikhail>and this package it doesn't exist
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13:53<mtn>mikhail: which version of debian?
13:53-!-SnShines [~SnShines@111.93.6.70] has quit []
13:53<mikhail>debian wheezy
13:53<mtn>mikhail: that package is only in jessie and sid
13:54<mtn>mikhail: https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=+libuv-dev&searchon=names&suite=all§ion=all&sourceid=mozilla-search
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13:55<mtn>mikhail: https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian
13:55-!-tommie-lie [~thomas@2a02:8071:b482:b300:547:2e8a:a030:49e2] has joined #debian
13:55<mikhail>ok is there a fix for this?
13:55-!-aidalgol [~user@0001a1b7.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
13:56<mikhail>i did install this package from jessie
13:56<mtn>mikhail: sure, fix your sources.list
13:56<mikhail>ok I will try
13:56<mtn>mikhail: read the last link I gave you. you now have a frankendebian ;)
13:57-!-mode/#debian [+l 669] by debhelper
13:57<mikhail>ok i'll do my best and i'll come back to you
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14:00<mikhail>I did have unstable on my sources enabled and because I am use apt-pinning i didn't realize it will trouble me so fat
14:01<mikhail>so far
14:01<mikhail>thanks for the info
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16:59<sylar>I tried to make the kernel for my arch, I did "fakeroot debian/rules build" and instead of creating amd64 it did i386, did I do something wrong?
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17:05<sylar>why "dpkg-architecture -qDEB_HOST_ARCH" return i386, when my arch is amd64?
17:05<sylar>could my arch be i386?
17:06<sylar>I thought it was amd64
17:06<[C]hris>https://wiki.debian.org/Migrate32To64Bit
17:06<sylar>maybe the kernel is 64, and the arch is 32
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17:08<sylar>for now I only need to compile the kernel in amd64, anyone know how to do that?
17:08<[C]hris>click the link
17:09<OrangeSpyderMan>and read the warning "These instructions do not work on current Debian stable with Multiarch" before you dive in
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17:10<sylar>thanks chris
17:11<sylar>wil try that
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17:14<OrangeSpyderMan>sylar: I also wonder a little why you want an amd64 kernel with i386 userland. Sure, it can be made to work, but why?
17:14<sylar>OrangeSpyderMan, I did that in order to have more than 4GB ram
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17:15<sylar>OrangeSpyderMan, after having already i386 system
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17:15<sylar>OrangeSpyderMan, I am not sure, but I think that i386 programs take less ram
17:16<OrangeSpyderMan>sylar: install a PAE kernel
17:16<sylar>so maybe I also get extra ram from the system that way
17:16<OrangeSpyderMan>or just install an amd64 system
17:16<sylar>I heard that pae doesn't work well
17:17<sylar>and it work well with amd64, this system is running for a long time. I just need to recompile a driver now
17:17<OrangeSpyderMan>sylar: "doesn't work well" will need some elaboration, but if we admit that's the case, why not just amd64 kernel with amd64 userland
17:18<sylar>because that will require me to change the entire system, and I am lazy
17:18<OrangeSpyderMan>sylar: OK - well if you know what you're doing. But I suspect you're making things harder for yourself than they need to be.
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17:20<sylar>unknown Debian architecture x86_64, you must specify GNU system type, too at /usr/bin/dpkg-architecture line 144.
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17:21<sylar>what is the output of:
17:21<sylar>dpkg-architecture -qDEB_HOST_ARCH
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17:21<sylar>on a 64 bit system?
17:21<sylar>can someone run it, and tell me the output?
17:23<OrangeSpyderMan>amd64
17:23<OrangeSpyderMan>did you read that current stable with multiarch won't work with those instructions
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17:24<OrangeSpyderMan>out of curiosity - have you tried just installing the amd64 kernel package (linux-image-amd64) which is available on i386?
17:24<sylar>I am not using these instructions, I am just compileing the kernel, with that env setting
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17:26<sylar>I am not sure if it is working :/
17:26<sylar>and it take so long for the kernel to compile
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17:27<OrangeSpyderMan>sylar: Ok - cross compiling (i.e. amd64 binaries on an i386 system) is something I haven't done in quite a while so I don't think I can help you further. the MAKE flages alone won't suffice I think, though :/
17:27<sylar>OrangeSpyderMan, yes, i installed that linux-image-amd64, that works. However, now I need to recompile a driver
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17:28<sylar>I think any system can compile code for any other arch
17:29<sylar>the only question is how to tell it to do it
17:29<devil_>in pbuilder? in a chroot?
17:29<sylar>in what?
17:30<sylar>I used fakeroot debian/rules build-arch
17:30<sylar>https://wiki.debian.org/BuildingTutorial
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17:33<OrangeSpyderMan>sylar: I never said you couldn't cross-compile, I'm just saying I haven't tried building amd64 binaries on an i386 install for a while
17:33<OrangeSpyderMan>sylar: I'd correct your statement to "most systems can be made to compile code for most other archs"
17:34<peter1138>Of course it's possible, whether it's simple to set up is another matter :)
17:35<OrangeSpyderMan>sylar: do you have hte amd64 kernel headers installed too?
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17:39<sylar>OrangeSpyderMan, yes
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17:44<OrangeSpyderMan>sylar: If you're running wheezy or above, and you're trying to compile a debian source package to an amd64 target on an i386 system for a kernel driver, have you explored the possibility of just using dpkg --add-architecture to add the amd64 arch and installing the binaries?
17:45<OrangeSpyderMan>sylar: are you compiling something from source that isn't packaged?
17:45<sylar>i am on squeeze
17:45<OrangeSpyderMan>sylar: oh right, then the instructions on the above page will work for you
17:45<sylar>I am compile from source yes
17:45<sylar>compiling
17:45<OrangeSpyderMan>sylar: but apt sources or unpackaged sources?
17:46<sylar>I don't know
17:46<sylar>what does it mean?
17:46<sylar>I got the sourse with apt-get source
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17:46<monod2>do you imagine a twitter account to be used like a help channel here on irc?
17:47<sylar>monod2, I didn't imagine
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17:47<OrangeSpyderMan>sylar: I think you'll need to provide more clear information of exaclty what it is you're doing, what commands you're using and where it's failing
17:48<sylar>ok
17:48<OrangeSpyderMan>sylar: but, as I said some time ago, I think you're making things a lot harder for yourself than they need to be
17:48<sylar>I got the source for the backport 3.2 kernel
17:48<sylar>using apt-get source
17:49<sylar>I then compiled it with:
17:49<sylar>ARCH=amd64 fakeroot debian/rules build-arch
17:50<sylar>without the ARCH=.. it made me i386 debs
17:50<sylar>with it, I don't know what will happen
17:50<OrangeSpyderMan>sylar: not using a PAE kernel even though you want >4GB support and are on i386 but have heard "it doesn't work well" has lead you down to recompiling kernel+drivers with an amd64 target.
17:50<OrangeSpyderMan>just install the PAE kernel
17:50<sylar>I will have to wait forever until it finish to compile, and hopefully have an amd64 kerne
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17:51<sylar>if that will work.. I will modify the source as instructed on the site: https://wiki.debian.org/BuildingTutorial
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17:51<OrangeSpyderMan>sylar: I find it mildly ironic that PAE bugs you as not being "good enough" but you're trying to hand roll a multiarch setup to avoid having to upgrade to Wheezy
17:51<sylar>hopefully it will take less time to compile after the modifciation
17:52<sylar>OrangeSpyderMan, I have to compile anyway, because I need to change a driver
17:52<sylar>I mean I need to change the source of one driver
17:53<OrangeSpyderMan>sylar: sorry - I joined after you'd mentioned that
17:53<sylar>ok
17:53<OrangeSpyderMan>sylar: but anyway...
17:53<OrangeSpyderMan>sylar: multiarch would help you a whole bunch, I suspect..
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17:54<sylar>OrangeSpyderMan, if I will install multiarch I will have to upgrade to whezy , and lose the GUI of gnome
17:54<sylar>and I am not prepared to do that now
17:54<OrangeSpyderMan>sylar: Ok - you pay your money, you make your choices :)
17:55<sylar>and I think it will give me lot more work
17:55<OrangeSpyderMan>sylar: sure, it's your choice
17:55<OrangeSpyderMan>sylar: have fun
17:55<sylar>as I will have to compile the kernel anyway
17:55<sylar>thank you
17:56<sylar>I will also have to deal with all my users, when they will ask me how to use the new GUI
17:56<sylar>and complain about it
17:56<sylar>and who know what other bugs are in wheezy
17:57<sylar>I rather stick with what I have
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17:57<sylar>I just need to change a couple of lines in one driver.c file
17:58<OrangeSpyderMan>that's cool - it'll only take you a couple of minutes then ;)
17:58<sylar>it will take much longer, because the kernel seem to take a few hours to compile
17:58<sylar>but, I don't have to watch it compile
17:59<sylar>I think that I can compile the driver alone
17:59<sylar>and that will be much faster, but I don't know how to do that
17:59<sylar>I tried to follow some site instructions, but the modules didn't load
18:02<OrangeSpyderMan>sylar: I'm still mildly curious what you have against a PAE kernel..
18:02<OrangeSpyderMan>sylar: but it's late here
18:02<sylar>I read about it, and I remember that not all hardware support it
18:02<OrangeSpyderMan>have fun
18:03<sylar>so my PCI cards, maybe they won't work with it, or work and fail
18:03<dondelelcaro>I personally haven't had much trouble with PAE.
18:03<dondelelcaro>and if you're running on i386 hardware with > 2G, you need it anyway
18:04<sylar>I use amd64 kernel with i386 userland
18:04<sylar>that work too
18:04<dondelelcaro>oh, this is amd64 hardware?
18:05<dondelelcaro>never mind then; you don't want PAE if you've got amd64 hardware.
18:05<sylar>it is capable of amd64
18:05<dondelelcaro>(I'm not sure why you're running an i386 userland either, but whatever works for you)
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18:06<sylar>I installed i386 long time ago, and that what I have now
18:06<dondelelcaro>ah; yeah, we should probably come up with better cross-grade instructions one of these days
18:07<sylar>I am kind of stuck with it, and I am too lazy to change it, and I also not seeing any bad side effects, so I don't see why I should change it
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18:08<dondelelcaro>yeah; not really a big deal, unless you need to allocate lots of memory (and have lots of memory to allocate)
18:09<sylar>I don't have any process that need to hog the RAM
18:09<sylar>I actually rather that each processe wont hog the RAM
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18:10<sylar>i386 probably limit each process to 2GB, although, that probably can be achieved with limits too
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18:11<sylar>in an amd64 system
18:11<SynrG>dondelelcaro: same as sylar. where "a long time ago" is about 1996
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18:12*sylar high five SynrG
18:12<SynrG>:)
18:12<SynrG>someday i'll crossgrade
18:12<sylar>but, I imagine also that with a 64 system each data take 64 bit instead of 32, so I suspect that 64 bit system require more RAM
18:13<sylar>I am not sure though
18:13<sylar>but, I imagine that when a code is translated to 64 an "int" will transform from 32 to 64 bit
18:14<sylar>and more RAM will be used
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18:17<dondelelcaro>sylar: right; everything being equal, it would... it's just that the i386 instruction set is so bad
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18:18<dondelelcaro>sylar: so you basically gain back in registers what you lost in having a longer wordsize
18:18-!-ph0b0s [~veindrain@ppp079167125092.access.hol.gr] has quit []
18:18<dondelelcaro>(but of course, whether that's actually the case depends on the precise code, etc.)
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18:25<peter1138>sylar, best to look things up instead of imagining :)
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18:25<peter1138>sylar, only pointers become 64 bit, an int is still 32 bit, at least in C-land.
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18:34<backbox>hello
18:34<backbox>people?
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18:45<erorrsalawi404>hello
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18:51<towski_>I have a weird X related problem
18:52<towski_>if I run wmctrl in a cron job it always seems to fail
18:52<towski_>well google seems to know
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23:33-!-Cylus is "cyl.us" on #tor #php #oftc #guardianproject #debian-offtopic #debian #
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---Logclosed Sun Sep 21 00:00:18 2014