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#debian IRC Logs for 2014-10-22

---Logopened Wed Oct 22 00:00:03 2014
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00:47<iDENT>hello, All!
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00:47<iDENT>Surprised people are still alive in channels, haven't been on IRC in 15 yrs
00:48<iDENT>I thought there would be a website to get live debian help though everything pointed to IRC
00:48<sney>a lot of debian development happens on irc so the overlap fits
00:49<iDENT>Sounds right
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00:49<vrkalak>iDENT, try #debian-live,#debian-next,
00:49<sney>I don't think he meant actual debian-live, just "live" as in right now
00:50<iDENT>thanks vrkalak, was seeking basic help that I couldn't find on google
00:50<sney>iDENT: well, what's your question, anyway
00:51<iDENT>Am I allowed to talk about torrents in general, meaning a protocol to share data
00:51<vrkalak>any of the Debian-Forums ...
00:51<sney>iDENT: yes
00:51<sney>debian delivers install images over torrent, even. it helps for the big ones
00:51<iDENT>I'm connected to a public wifi since my ISP cut me for not paying the bill....
00:51<iDENT>Obviously the ports that I setup on my router are not working....
00:52<sney>bittorrent defaults to a lot of dynamic ports. it helps for the multitude of connections it needs
00:52<iDENT>Wondering how it would be possible to find alternate ports... like a command to run to scan which upd/tcp ports are open which I could pass to my torrent client
00:52<vrkalak>some Wiki places have great downloads some don't
00:53<sney>so you should set your client (e.g. deluge) to use only a couple specific ports that you're sure are NAT'd.
00:53<sney>if you're on public wifi, you're probably on double NAT. and you'd need your public wifi provider to forward those ports too so your torrent client can talk to its peers on the public internet.
00:53<vrkalak>we discuss 'hacking'
00:53<iDENT>"specific ports that you're sure are NAT'd" that's what I'm seeking... a way to scan for those ports to use
00:54<sney>the idea being that you would have forwarded those ports yourself. if you're not in control of the NAT gateway then you're a bit up a creek
00:54<sney>because open ports =/= forwarded ports
00:54<iDENT>I know of,, though I don't want to type in 50,000 ports
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00:56<iDENT>Is there a netstat command I could type, providing a range of ports, to check
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00:56<sney>furthermore: if whoever administers your public gateway has not deliberately forwarded ports to YOUR ip, then there will be none, anyway
00:56<jm_>if you have a public system you could use tools like nmap
00:57<sney>nmap will show open/listening ports but not ones that directly plug your machine into the internet
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01:00<iDENT>Thought so... was on usenet, until I stopped paying them too... lol, hence why I'm on public wifi using torrents
01:00<sney>bittorrent 'clients' are poorly named because they are just as much servers as they are clients
01:00<sney>and as servers they need to be publicly accessible by the other clients/servers.
01:01<iDENT>Mind if I jump completely off topic with another question?
01:01<sney>most clients can manage some crappy performance in lieu of that, but trackers tend to dislike endpoints that aren't seeding at all, so it's not really a solution
01:01<sney>your solution is to find a real demarc that connects you to a public ip somewhere so you can do your own nat.
01:01<sney>yes, if it's a debian question,
01:01<iDENT>it is...
01:02<iDENT>Say a package that I want is only available in SID repository...
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01:02<dpkg>First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) aptitude update; aptitude install build-essential; aptitude build-dep packagename; apt-get -b source packagename; 4) install the resultant debs. To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>.
01:03<sney>^ this. else, use testing which is about to freeze anyway
01:03<iDENT>My dumb ass always adds the repository, apt-get update/upgrade, and screw my system.... instead of update/install.. any safe way to not make the same mistake
01:04<jm_>no there is no safe way to mix sid and stable
01:04<iDENT>so no, apt-get install:from_sid
01:04<sney>you can follow the bot dpkg's instructions, above, to COMPILE the sid package for your stable system. you basically make a new package with the newer version. doesn't work with everything, but works with a lot of stuff
01:04<iDENT>instead of adding and removing to my repository?
01:05<sney>otherwise, you upgrade to testing properly, which you can mix with sid pretty painlessly
01:05<iDENT>sney, I've been doing that lately... git clone, configure, build, etc
01:05<sney>no no
01:05<sney>no no no
01:05<sney>see the bot's instructions? see all those apt commands?
01:05<sney>you make a PACKAGE
01:05<sney>and it installs through the debian package manager
01:06<sney>and it keeps the usual dependency structure and can even be upgraded later
01:06<sney>rather than just crapping all over /usr/local and making things bad for yourself in the future
01:06<sney>if you're running the configure script manually you are still doing it wrong, mostly, even if you are using that silly chkconfig tool
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01:07<iDENT>I'll do a "git clone" read the README which usually has me run, configure, build, make, make install
01:08<sney>I see we're missing the definition of a package, then
01:08<iDENT>I understand the logic behind debians package manager
01:08<sney>I mean, yes - autofoo can generate binaries and install them in a way that the software works, which is the primary goal, yes
01:10<sney>when you make install, all that does is dump those binaries in some configured directories. it doesn't give the package manager any understanding that the software has been installed, so it can't be upgraded with apt, and it also can't serve as a dependency for something else you install later
01:10<iDENT>I tend to stay with stable packages though something I want may be in the unstable/testing repository.... I have a habit of not removing the testing repository prior to running an update/upgrade and "update" every package to testing
01:10<iDENT>sney, right and I can always re-clone/git pull when needed
01:10<sney>updating every package to testing is actually MUCH saner than installing a couple
01:11<sney>that's your perogative. but you wanted to know how to install things from sid. you can, and you can make apt build the packages for you. this is better than just building from upstream source, for a couple reasons that I think I've just made clear
01:12<sney>for example!
01:12<sney>I have a system that runs zoneminder, a security camera manager.
01:12<iDENT>I really wanted, or to at least know of, a command where I could install from a repository (not in my sources) on the fly... So I don't do my perogative
01:13<iDENT>ex: apt-get install thesidpkg -from the.sid.repository
01:13<sney>security cameras communicate in jpeg streams, which can use a lot of cpu for analysis of whether there's something weird happening on camera, etc
01:14<sney>there's a newer libjpeg that uses cpu extensions to vastly improve jpeg decoding and make it a lot easier to manage multiple cameras. but, my server runs debian 7, and libjpeg-turbo is only in jessie and sid.
01:14<sney>so, I added this to my sources.list: deb-src main
01:15<sney>and then I did this: apt-get install build-essential;apt-get build-dep libjpeg-turbo;apt-get -b source libjpeg-turbo
01:15<sney>and then I went and had lunch
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01:15<sney>and when I got back, in my working directory I had libjpeg-turbo-$(version).deb
01:16<sney>and now if I need something else from sid, like say I want the better apt frontend,
01:16<sney>I can just do: apt-get -b source apt
01:16<sney>and it'll download, configure, build and package the sources for my stable server
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01:18<sney>(some example commands may include typos but the point stands)
01:19<iDENT>ahh, looking into the -b switch
01:19<iDENT>now what about when you do an upgrade, can you specify the source to be stable?
01:20<sney>since my only sid source is a deb-src, I don't have to do anything. -src specifies that apt can only pull _source_ from that, not binary packages, and thus can't upgrade from it
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01:22<iDENT>I never understood the difference between deb/deb-src
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01:24<sney>well, there you go.
01:27<iDENT>Thank you so much
01:27<iDENT>I really appreciate this help
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01:28<iDENT>Once last question, I'm guessing this might have more to do with personal preference... regarding install locations for packages built from source
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01:29<iDENT>I've briefly read,
01:30<iDENT>My home server, base debian net install, has: Plex, rTorrent/ruTorrent, and Sickbeard/SickRage
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01:32<iDENT>Each Package I build from source and never know where to install/move to permitaly
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01:40<iDENT>So when I am building packages from source, in my case, Sickbeard - Plex - ruTorrent/rTorrent. Where is a good place to move them too that would be accessable by the runas user?
01:40<iDENT>Also, where is a good place to save the logs and dbs for easy backup/restore?
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01:41<jm_>if building from source, use /usr/local/bin (that's probably where they defaut to install into anyway)
01:41<iDENT>I've created the folders /var/apps/logs - for logs and /var/apps/run - for pids
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01:42<iDENT>jm_, most say for me to make it hidden in the home directory... /home/owner/.sickbeard
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01:43<jm_>iDENT: that was the answer to your first question, not to the second one
01:43<jm_>oh well
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01:48<jm_>iDENT: that was the answer to your first question, not to the second one
01:49<iDENT>Sorry, I dropped a few times
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01:54<iDENT>I was trying to figure out the best place to move packages that I built from source that would be accessible for multiple users. My main services on my home media server are: /usr/local/bin/rtorrent, /usr/local/sickbeard, and /usr/lib/plexmediaserver. Granted those locations most likely weren't the default. I believe both sickbeard and rtorrent
01:54<iDENT>suggested a hidden directory within /home
01:55<jm_>/usr/local sounds much better if multiple users need to use it
02:01<iDENT>what about /usr/local/ (bin/sbin) or I've seen another path with "src"
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02:02<iDENT>sorry, switching from this webclient to irssi
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02:03<jm_>sbin is for things only root should run
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02:05<iDENT>Hello again, trying irssi instead of the webclient that I was previously using
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02:07<iDENT>If I am building a package from github, should I be using the /usr/local/src folder?
02:08<iDENT>or is /usr/local/src for local package development?
02:09<jm_>you can put source code where you like it, /usr/local/src makes sense if several people have to access it, otherwise maybe ~/src or whatever
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02:10<iDENT>jm_, is that where I would do my "git clone" at?
02:10<topcyde>I need a clue? I'm trying to install g++ but keeps throwing a "unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages." message at me. I've used apt-get check, aptitude, and synaptic, and none of them show a broken package? I've tried fix broken and still kicks out the same message.
02:10<jm_>iDENT: yeah I use ~/src for that
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02:11<jm_>!tell topcyde -about bat
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02:12<iDENT>jm_, you'd do "git clone /usr/local/src/packagename"?
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02:13<iDENT>jm_, is that also where you would execute it from? ex: "python /usr/local/src/packagename/"
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02:14<jm_>iDENT: no, cd ~/src && git clone ... (~ is your home dir), you typically have to 'make install' before you can run it
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02:17<iDENT>jm_, doesn't clone'ing skip the configure/bulid/make process
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02:18<iDENT>jm_, I thought "git clone" basically puts the working packing where you cloned it at
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02:23<jm_>iDENT: sure it does, I'm not giving you complete sequence as that depends on each project, so yes you'd want cd foo && ./configure etc.
02:24<iDENT>jm_, thanks
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02:25<iDENT>jm_, do you set aside another directory to save ini/conf/db files to?
02:25<jm_>iDENT: no problem
02:26<jm_>iDENT: no, I don't save them separately, if I want it backed up I include it in my backup solution instead
02:26<iDENT>jm_, lol.. that is actually the reason why I am asking all of these questions
02:27<iDENT>jm_, on my windows machine, I backed up all important files/zips to c:\backup\docs-pics-zips-etc and in the event I needed to wipe, I would backup that folder
02:28<iDENT>jm_, I am trying to do the same on my Debian machine.. At least have my configs/settings/dbs in a central location in the event of disastory recovery
02:29<iDENT>jm_, which with me still learning linux... happens more than I'd like to admiy
02:29<iDENT>jm_, do you have a "tar script" that you run on a list of folders?
02:30<iDENT>jm_, I looked into dd a partition which I couldn't figure out how to have it not image the "freespace"
02:31<iDENT>jm_, still have no clue how to handle backups and any advise would be greatly appreicated!
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02:32<jm_>iDENT: I use two methods, to make backups on my disks, and then I also run company wide backup solution which stores all that and some additionals tuff elsewhere
02:33<jm_>iDENT: to not image freespace look at partimage if you use one of the supported filesystems
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02:40<iDENT>sorry jm_, were you able to address any of those concerns/questions?
02:41<jm_>iDENT: I use two methods, to make backups on my disks, and then I also run company wide backup solution which stores all that and some additionals tuff elsewhere; to not image freespace look at partimage if you use one of the
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02:45<iDENT>jm_, for simple backup of settings and configurations... should I skip partimage?
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02:48<iDENT>jm_, would an advantage of partimage be if I did a base install, added packages, and am content with everything.... Simular to a system image?
02:48<jm_>iDENT: yeah it would probably be easier to use some backup tool
02:49<jm_>iDENT: I suppose so, if your definition of system image is what I think of
02:50<iDENT>jm_, like.. I don't feel like downloading all of my missing drivers and utilities (winrar, imgburn) etc... let me wipe, install my "pre-created/paritally customized" image and start from there...
02:51<jm_>iDENT: yup
02:51<iDENT>jm_, cool
02:51<jm_>of course this is far less hassl with debian :)
02:52<iDENT>jm_, do you have a link to blank/basic "" that I could use/modifty as a starting point?
02:53<jm_>iDENT: please don't start using the same tool as me, see if other tools are better for you: apt-cache search backup --
02:54<jm_>I found because most other tools were either very complicated or didn't support exclusion back then
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02:55<jm_>wow my version is completely outdated , no wonder since it's from 2004
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03:10<iDENT>I'm so glad I was able to find this channel, let alone IRC again... Everyone's help has been greatly appricaited
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03:12<iDENT>Now I'm guessing that I may have to switch to another channel to get answers on how to connect to my other computers with my hack/slash network setup
03:12<iDENT>OR I guess I can always try rambling here and see where it leads
03:12<heroxbd>has anyone met with this problem when upgrading from wheezy to jessie? "Selecting previously unselected package init." takes forever, and "htop" shows a process "/usr/bin/dpkg --status-fd 44 --unpack --auto-deconfigure /var/cache/apt/archives/init_1.21_amd64.deb" takes 100% of the CPU.
03:12<heroxbd>init should be a very small package to unpack, right?
03:13<jm_>heroxbd: probably better to ask in #debian-next
03:13<heroxbd>jm_: thanks
03:13<jm_>init is a meta-package in jessie
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03:14<heroxbd>jm_: yeah, it's weird that it takes so long
03:14<jm_>perhaps try checking what this process is doing and pstree -lp output
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03:16<heroxbd>jm_: strace it shows nothing
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03:17<jm_>heroxbd: but it shows the syscall it's stuck on, right?
03:18<Dweller>hi ppl
03:19<jm_>or wait, if it's 100% CPU usage it's probably not syscall, perhaps use gdb to grab several stacktraces instead
03:19<heroxbd>jm_: too late..
03:19<Dweller>i have debian 7 with gnome on desktop with 2 monitors. in gnome setting i setup 2 monitors and everything is great, but on logon screen i still have mirrored monitors which are blank after gnome turns off monitors and wakes up
03:20<heroxbd>if I strace "dpkg --configure -a", the last syscall is read(8, "/usr/sbin/update-icon-caches\n/us"..., 4096) = 859, followed by a ton of brk calls and the memory usage goes to 100%
03:20<heroxbd>might be something with gtk3...
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03:20<jm_>possibly one of the triggers then, not sure
03:23<Dweller>maybe some xrandr script to boot on logon screen
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03:24<iDENT>Machine DL is connected to the internet via wlan0_wifi( and shares the internet through eth0_Bridge( The cat5 wire from eth0_Bridge connects to my Belkin Router(Wan IP 0.1)'s Uplink and Assigns to my HS machine. I'm trying to SSH from HS to DL. I've been able to SSH from DL to HS via forwarding port 22 to HS and using "ssh" to connect
03:24<iDENT>to HS from DL
03:24<iDENT>How can I reverse it so I can ssh from HS to DL
03:24<iDENT>Is there a traceroute or something I can run on HS to see how it gets to the Belkin Router? I'm assuming all that will tell me is -> (which is
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03:26<heroxbd>how can I tell which script is run during the call "dpkg --configure -a"? pstree doesn't show a child process of dpkg.
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03:26<ixi>iDENT I'd ask at #networking on freenode
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03:27<jm_>heroxbd: pstree -lp
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03:30<MarvelDigital>i have a 600 $ paper weight because i haven't been able to get my computer working yet... haha :p
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03:30<heroxbd>!bug 766242
03:30<heroxbd>jm_: ah, it's bug 766242
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03:34<heroxbd>downgrading to dpkg-1.17.18 from 1.17.19 solved the problem
03:34<jm_>MarvelDigital: why not?
03:34<iDENT>ixi, sorry for the late responce. Is freenode another irc server?
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03:38<MarvelDigital>jm_, not sure if you remember my situation about moving the harddrive from my old computer with debian 7.6 installed into a completely new computer, all new hardware. I tried installing the binaries for the nvidia graphics card like you suggested, but i receive a gcc mismatch and it was finding my old kernel (2.6) instead of the 3.2.0-4 I'm currently running. i tried export cc=gcc4.7 but still had that error. i haven't found a fix yet.
03:40<jm_>MarvelDigital: wait,a re you using nvidia's bin/run files? don't do that
03:40<ixi>yes iDENT
03:40<ixi>it's another *network*
03:41<ixi>made of multiple servers
03:41<ixi>same as this here oftc network
03:41<ixi>made of multiple different servers
03:44<MysteryCraeator>aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttteeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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03:44<MarvelDigital>jm_ i was following some instructions i found online about running the ./ didn't work,... what would be the proper way? because my video card isn't in the debian wheezy/backports repository.
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03:45<jm_>MarvelDigital: no, stop,
03:46<jm_>MarvelDigital: which card did you get?
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03:49<MarvelDigital>jm_, i got the GTX 750. I checked it didn't work, my card isn't supported (yet)...
03:50<MarvelDigital>makes me wish i didn't listen to the sales woman just because she was pretty and convinced me to spurge the extra cash... i should have just sticked to the onboard...!!haha
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03:52<jm_>MarvelDigital: in that case simply try backporting the nvidia-driver from sid
03:52<jm_>,check-backport nvidia-driver
03:52<judd>Backporting package nvidia-driver in sid→wheezy/i386: all build-dependencies satisfied using wheezy.
03:52<jm_>should be trivial
03:52<jm_>!tell MarvelDigital -about ssb
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03:55<MarvelDigital>jm_ thanks. i'll try that when i get home after work tonight. maybe a stupid question, but i'm using AMD? Can i just change the i386 to amd64 or do i need to allow the i386 architecture?
03:56<jm_>MarvelDigital: why do you mention this? I don't quite understand where it's coming from
03:58<peter1138>MarvelDigital, that's just a detail of the IRC bot.
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04:00<MarvelDigital>jm_ haha nevermind. thanks.
04:00<MarvelDigital>peter1138, thanks. my bad
04:02<jm_>ahh you mean check-backport stuff? yeah just use amd64
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04:02<jm_>,check-backport --arcdh amd64 nvidia-driver
04:02<judd>No package named '--arcdh' was found in sid/amd64.
04:02<jm_>,check-backport --arch amd64 nvidia-driver
04:02<judd>No package named '--arch' was found in sid/amd64.
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04:03<jm_>ok so I checked it via /msg and it's the same (package comes first in the command, brown paper bag moment)
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04:18<Iridos>judd, check-backport nvidia-driver --arch amd64
04:18<judd>Backporting package nvidia-driver in sid→wheezy/amd64: all build-dependencies satisfied using wheezy.
04:18<Iridos>jm_, the first word has to be the package name
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04:19<Iridos>as the bot itself says in the usage line
04:19<Iridos>judd, check-backport
04:19<judd>(checkbackport <packagename> [--fromrelease <sid>] [--torelease <stable>] [--arch <i386>] [--verbose]) -- Check that the build-dependencies listed by a package in the release specified as "fromrelease" are satisfiable for in "torelease" for the given host architecture. By default, a backport from unstable to the current stable release and i386 are used.
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04:19<jm_>Iridos: yes, I mentioned that in ()
04:19<Iridos>ah, didn't see that one :)
04:20*Iridos takes out his own bag
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04:30<MarvelDigital>jm_ thanks again...hopefully i can get it to work
04:30<jm_>MarvelDigital: just ask here for help if you get stuck, but it should be relatively painless
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06:09<nodens>hi there
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06:10<nodens>my dpkg databases seem corrupted (dpkg --configure takes forever and eats cpu/memory until OOM)
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06:10<nodens>status seems OK, diversions aren't apparently
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06:10<nodens>any id how I can rebuild this properly ?
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06:12<nodens>I already tried to reinstall all packages, using diversion-old, but dpkg --configure starts eating memory again eventually
06:12<jm_>nodens: unstable?
06:12<nodens>jm_, yup
06:13<jm_>nodens: #debian-next and 766242
06:13<nodens>ok, thanks
06:13<nodens>didn't found the BR :)
06:13<jm_>no problem
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06:22<iDENT_>Thanks again for everyone's help. ixi, I resolved the ssh issue by brute forcing every ip address i knew of into my ssh command. I'm not talking to the guys over at #networking on freenode about fixing my current bridge setup
06:22<ixi>not or now?
06:22<iDENT_>*not = now
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06:23<iDENT_>Their trying to persuade me into deadicating a machine to handle my routing/nat?!?
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06:26<ixi>iDENT_ listen to them
06:27<ixi>#networking critters know their stuff
06:27<iDENT_>ahh, exact quote "the machine doing the connection sharing should be doing the all the routing and NAT"
06:27<ixi>that much seems reasonable
06:28<iDENT_>the only machine that I have to spare, the screen won't turn on. Not sure how I can inston it
06:28<iDENT_>*install debain on it
06:28<ixi>you already have a box doing internet sharing
06:28<ixi>do it there
06:29<iDENT_>my shit is so ghetto rig'd atm
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06:29<iDENT_>old machine (HS) runs debain netinst, plex, sickbeard, and rtorrent
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06:30<iDENT_>primary latop, maybe 2 years younger runs crunchbang
06:30<iDENT_>I ran cat5 thoughout the house
06:31<iDENT_>my primary laptop, is now a desktop, since the ethernet port runs to the ethernet jack which instead of plugging into a port on the router, now plugs into the uplink of the router
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06:33<iDENT_>I have an older, then both HS and DL, Dell Laptop which for whatever reason, I can't get the display to turn on
06:34<iDENT_>and I'm too lazy to open it and check the screen connection to the board... instead I smack the back of the display or slam it shut.. hoping it will work
06:34<peter1138>Age-old percussive maintenance.
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07:53<qua>,v libc6
07:53<judd>Package: libc6 on i386 -- squeeze: 2.11.3-4; squeeze-security-lts: 2.11.3-4+deb6u1; wheezy-security: 2.13-38+deb7u4; wheezy: 2.13-38+deb7u6; jessie: 2.19-11; sid: 2.19-11
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08:17<toro>Hi, Could anyone help me with my current issue? Running a server with screen command. screen -dmS "name" command. Problem is that it's not showing up with the given "name" under ps x. Anyone have a clue why not? Or am I just going mad? :)
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08:37<mark>hello. i am trying to fix something on my laptop (debian testing) and i entered a live-usb (debian) but the only partition showing, inside the live session, is the sda which is the usb in this case.
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08:37<mark>but i want to access the root partition of the laptop to install grub
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09:11<Rylee>How would I get Vim compiled with +clientserver on Debian?
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09:12<Rylee>Not even vim-nox has it.
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10:53<MTecknology>I'm changing /etc/network/interfaces from dhcp to static. The address itself isn't changing, I'm just making it static. If I run 'service networking restart', I'll lose connection and it probably won't finish resetting. How can I make the static address effective without a reboot?
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11:02<petn-randall>MTecknology: Run 'ifdown eth0 && ifup eth0' from 'screen', assuming you set up everything 100% correctly and eth0 is the desired interface. If you do something wrong you might end up with an unreachable system, though.
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11:10<MTecknology>petn-randall: Thanks!! :D
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11:14<petn-randall>MTecknology: You're welcome! Any time again.
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11:31<Minotaur>hi all, what does srst failed mean?when I boot it shows me this'
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11:31<Minotaur>'srst failed'
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11:32<EmleyMoor>I'm having a problem with fuse-emulator-gtk. I have installed it on both my laptop and my desktop. I can (with a suitable ROM image) use the Beta 128 disk interface on my laptop without problems. On my desktop, unless I run the program as "root", it tells me "No disk" when I try to use the emulated floppies. How can I trace why this is different?
11:32<Apollo>EmleyMoor: do you have the same groups for your user?
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11:35<EmleyMoor>Apollo: More on the desktop than the laptop, but dip, bluetooth and netdev only on the laptop (and no bluetooth installed on the desktop)
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11:36<EmleyMoor>(besides, I can't see what relevance groups might have other than for writing to temporary filestores...)
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12:28<claw__>anybody know how i can reinstall als package from a backup ?
12:28<claw__>i have /var in the backup
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12:31<mju>claw__: If you have the .deb package, you can always install it manually via $dpkg -i package.deb .
12:32<claw__>well there is /var/cache/apt
12:32<claw__>but this would be cleaned if one executed apt-get clean
12:33<mju>Why can't you just do apt-get install the package, and it will be downloaded again?
12:33<claw__>sorry the is a type in my question
12:33<mju>I.e., what problem are you trying to solve?
12:33<claw__>how can i reinstall all packages from a backup of /var
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12:34<mju>First, why do you want to do this? Did you delete the packages from your system?
12:34<petn-randall>Seconded, what problem are you trying to solve?
12:34<claw__>mju, disaster recovery
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12:35<mju>Does apt-get install not work anymore? I would get the list of package names you want and feed it to apt-get install.
12:35<claw__>i had a brocken ext4 filesystem with missaligned metadata where /bin/bash had 114 MB and so on. It referred to a wrong file i guess
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12:36<claw__>and now i have a fresh install but backups of /etc /home /usr/local und /var
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12:36<mju>So, you are missing packages on your new system?
12:37<mju>As said, try to get the package names and feed them to apt-get install.
12:37<claw__>yes i want to install everything that was installed before
12:37<petn-randall>claw__: So you want to install all the packages of the old system? I'd use a different approach for that.
12:37<mju>There might be clever ways to do that. dpkg might put a list of installed packages somewhere.
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12:39<claw__>petn-randall, how would you do it ?
12:39<mju>claw__: see intesting files under /var/backup. I do not know their precise meaning or how to feed them to dpkg, though.
12:40<mju>Looks like a backup of dpkg's and apt's database.
12:40<claw__>cat /var/backups/apt.extended_states.0 | grep Package
12:40<claw__>thats 2945 packages
12:40<claw__>that could be all of them
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12:40<claw__>the file seams to define if package is auto-installed or by user
12:40<mju>claw__: Look at the file. These are only automatically installed packages, as it looks like.
12:41<mju>At least on this computer.
12:43<petn-randall>claw__: "dpkg --get-selections" will spit out your selections, you can feed it to "dpkg --set-selections". You need to find a way to make it read from the file from the old system. Don't know from the top of my head how to read from a different state file, though.
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12:47<claw__>petn-randall, --admin-dir
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12:49<mju>If you have your complete /var, the dpkg data should be under /var/lib/dpkg. You could try with that as admindir for dpkg.
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12:52<mju>And maybe afterwards copy the information for apt from the old /var/lib/apt/extended_states to the new one, if you want to keep the information which packages were automatically installed. But that is not that important, only convenient.
12:52<mju>claw__: ^^
12:53<claw__>did not know dpkg has this option before :)
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13:21<DesertRock>So just upgraded to wheezy, and my desktop disappeared. Where did it go and how can I get it back?
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13:22<awal>DesertRock, yesterday you said you in Squeeze and wanna upgrade to Jessie, right?
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13:23<DesertRock>awal, I decided to stay in wheezy until I figured out why Jessie is still unstable. But yeah, that was me
13:24<awal>which DM you use in squeeze? gnome2?
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13:26<DesertRock>Yeah, so now I believe I'm seeing gnome3 which by default doesn't have the desktop enabled. Maybe its time to try out LXDE
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13:27<petn-randall>DesertRock: What do you mean with "the desktop"? A wallpaper?
13:28<awal>DesertRock you see gnome3 but no desktop enabled? what you mean?
13:28<DesertRock>petn-randall, sorry, was vague, but the visual display of the filesystem. Yeah, poor choice of words on my part, sorry guys.
13:28<towski__>is there a way to modify what command gets run with unity search
13:29<towski__>like if I search 'evolution', modify that command
13:29<petn-randall>DesertRock: Oh, you mean the contents of /home/desertrock/Desktop/ being shown on the desktop, I see. Yeah, IIRC that feature doesn't exist in gnome3, not sure if you can enable it somewhere.
13:29<mju>towski__: unity is not in debian, if I recall correctly.
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13:30<awal>DesertRock, are you in gnome-shell now?
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13:30<awal>towski___, are you using ubuntu?
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13:31<DesertRock>Is the gnome-sheIll the main thing I'm looking at, if so, yes.
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13:32<towski__>oh right, no I'm in debian
13:32<towski__>I just mean, when I hit the 'os' key
13:32<towski__>in gnome a search bar shows up
13:32<towski__>where I can search apps
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13:32<towski__>i guess it's not called unity
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13:37<awal>DesertRock, gnome-shell have another design. in gdm3 choose gnome-flashback and you will get something similar to gnome2 or , if you prefer gnome-shell, install the pack 'gnome-tweak-tool' and 'gnome-shell-extension. restart you gnome-shell "Alt+F2+r". in gnome tweak tool enable the extenssions you want and enable something like 'handle desktop' if you wanna have icons in desktop... (but I think this function is not supported in gnome 3.8)
13:37<awal>gnome-flashback or gnome-classic (dont remember)
13:38<somiaj>I tought it was fallback mode, but you can now select this? That is good, use to be you only got it if you had poor hardware
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13:40<awal>somiaj, gnome/sid you can choose "gnome, gnome-classic, gnome in wayland, gnome compiz"
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13:40<awal>but only gnome &gnome classic works ;)
13:41<DesertRock> Where do I select these things?
13:41<awal>in your login manager
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13:41<awal>Guys, any command I can run for check if I have a non-free firmware installed in my machine or which ones are installed?
13:42<somiaj>awal: ahh yea, I don't use either, I just recall for a while (Ahd still might be true for wheezy) that you couldn't select to use fallback (or classic) mode
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13:43<awal>somiaj, you are doing good (no use gnome) . sadly it's the default again for jessie, not xfce
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13:45<awal>or any command for list all the firmwares I have (free and non-free)?
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13:47<somiaj>awal: depends on what you mean by default. In the end you can choose what debian installs and you can have ti install xfce during the install or any other DE by selecting this option at boot.
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13:47<DesertRock>Thanks awal, now that I figured that out I can procrastinate more on choosing a new DM
13:49<awal>somiaj, that's truue. not real default dm beacause one can choose during installation
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13:50<awal>DesertRock, ;) try with gnome-tweak-tool and gnome-extenssions under gnome-shell session
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13:52<DesertRock>Righto. Honestly in the past I just disabled a DM and ran my box as a server, so when my main machine dropped out of the picture I've had to convert my server to a desktop :3
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13:52<DesertRock>So this is all very new to me
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14:11<bluenemo>hi guys. what happens if I write multiple remote sources in my /etc/apt/sources.list and for example both of them serve emacs for the apt-get install keyword emacs. how can I notice that and how can I choose between each source?
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14:15<Brigo>bluenemo, you will get a frankendebian
14:15<dpkg>When you get random packages from random repositories, mix multiple releases of Debian, or mix Debian and derived distributions, you have a mess. There's no way anyone can support this "distribution of Frankenstein" and #debian certainly doesn't want to even try. See if you can convince ##linux to help.
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14:16<bluenemo>Brigo, its more of a theoretical question. If I put say saltstacks repository in my sources.list (or any other providing its custom packages), and they would put in an emacs instead of only say salt-minion and -master. would I notice?
14:17<ovanu>bluenemo: If you're comfortable with that you could take a look at your apt preferences:
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14:20<bluenemo>Brigo, ovanu I might have stated my question wrong. What I actually would like to know, is there a way to see which actual line (remote repository) in the sources.list I am downloading a package from when I say for example apt-cache show emacs? as in, for this given package, whats the exact source I'm downloding from?
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14:21<Brigo>bluenemo, apt-cache policy will tell you.
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14:23<bluenemo>Brigo, thats what I was looking for, thank you :)
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14:23<Brigo>bluenemo, finally, np :)
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14:24<bluenemo>ok, another question ;) when I run ps aux | tail, why is tail already in the process list? Isnt ps execued first, and its output then piped to tail? as in why is tail already running at that point of executing ps?
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14:26<bluenemo>(because ps is piped line by line, and tail is therefore running starting with the first line of output from less?) PS: sorry, actually meant less, not tail
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14:36<bluenemo>blast007, thx, didnt find this, very interesting, didnt know this
14:36<Brigo>bluenemo, try time sleep 5 | sleep 5 | sleep 5 | sleep 5 | sleep 5
14:37<bluenemo>fascinating example! perfect, thank you!
14:37<Brigo>np :)
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14:43<safinaskar>afaik during jessie freeze peroid only important bug fixes are allowed. why? why not to allow all bug fixes?
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14:44<jmlongo>maybe because sometimes a bug fix introduces another bug ... or incopatibility problems ;)
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14:50<bluenemo>another (nooby) question. I understand that aptitude requires apt-get and expands on its functionality. packages can define dependencies (this is done in the .deb files somewhere). when installing something with apt-get vs aptitude, is there any difference in what dependencies are installed? (i know of the --install-suggests flag). Sbd asked me today, and I wasnt 100% sure.
14:51<bluenemo>(as in default running apt-get install emacs vs aptitude install emacs)
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14:55<blast007>bluenemo: from what I've gathered from previous discussions here, it is recommended to use apt-get normally, but if you encounter a dependency resolution issue (like apt-get wanting to remove a lot of packages) then it might be time to try aptitude for that case
14:56<blast007>aptitude can provide more ways to resolve depenency issues by providing multiple solutions
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14:56<bluenemo>blast007, thank you, yes, thats what I'm reading right now @
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15:01<safinaskar>bluenemo: in wheezy there is no differencies. both apt-get and aptitude install by default "dependencies" and "recommended" packages, but you can change this in config
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15:04<safinaskar>so, why not all bug fixes allowed during freeze? yes, bug fix may introduce another bug, but probability of this scenario is very small. timeline between releases is near 2 years. currently minor bug fixes not allowed during freeze, this means that users of stable will have to live with this bugs 2 years! why?
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15:07<safinaskar>jmlongo: i think bug fixes are important. yes, they can introduce another bugs, but this is very low risk. so, why?
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15:08<jmlongo>Hola Sexy
15:08<dpkg>Este canal es de soporte técnico en Inglés para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en Español, puede ingresar en #debian-es tecleando /join #debian-es en la línea de chat.
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15:08<Sexy>Hola cm tellamas ?
15:08<Sexy>cm te llamas ?
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15:09<blast007>safinaskar: you're making an assumption that all bugs are trivial to fix and that the fixes are easily verifiable.
15:10<jmlongo>safinaskar .. freeze doesn't mean that bugs will not be fixed ... it just draws a line t
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15:12<safinaskar>blast007: jmlongo: what about trivial minor bug fix (for example, some typo)?
15:13<badrabbit>i tried to uninstall extra network services and then autoremove had me delete java etc
15:13<badrabbit>pretty lame
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15:13<blast007>badrabbit: we'd need more information than that to actually tell you what happened and why
15:13<safinaskar>jmlongo: are minor bug fixes allowed after release?
15:14<blast007>(like all of the output from the commands you ran)
15:14<badrabbit>blast007: i suspect that i added in a gtk library by accident. didn't see it in the apt log though
15:14<badrabbit>i'll reinstall from scratch i guess. or is there a workstation config i can select to get base packages again
15:15<blast007>badrabbit: do you use Java for something? Had it prehaps been used by a packaged program before but you then removed that packaged program?
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15:15<badrabbit>yeah i want to use servlets
15:17<badrabbit>i used to use debian a long time ago and dselect or something let you pick the package suites like from installation menu
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15:18<SamB_laptop>I *think* dselect still exists ;-)
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15:19<SamB_laptop>badrabbit: if you ask not to have a DE, I think?
15:20<badrabbit>ha ha. no it's just some temporary dev environment. i'll just re-apt-get tomcat and not worry about what's broken.
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15:21<badrabbit>maybe there is a weird depedency on plug and play network server
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15:22<safinaskar>so, what about minor bug fixes? i still don't understand
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15:24<badrabbit> is funny. looks like someone forget to delete it
15:24<bluenemo>does ftp (the protocol) implement any recursive kind of GET?
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15:24<badrabbit>client can
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15:26<safinaskar>badrabbit: hack it then :)
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15:29<badrabbit>there was an ftp server that allowed that
15:29<badrabbit>but why bother
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15:39<Airwave>I'm installing Debian with a preseed file. Everything's working great except for setting the keyboard layout.
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15:39<Airwave>I've tried these three, with no luck: "d-i keymap select no" "d-i keyboard-configuration/layout select no" "d-i keyboard-configuration/xkb-keymap select no".
15:39<Airwave>I'm not getting they keyboard selection dialog, but once I'm booted, the keymap is US.
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15:43<bluenemo>Airwave, I'm not sure which is the right one, but do you want to see that dialogue? if not and one of those works, I guess no sets to default, which i think should be en_US.UTF-8
15:44<Airwave>bluenemo: I don't want to see the dialog. I want it set to Norwegian (no).
15:44<Airwave>Also, en_US.UTF-8 is a locale, not a keymap.
15:44<GCS>Hi, anyone may try a package build for me on a non-Intel machine?
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15:46<bluenemo>ah yes, please appologise the wrong answer. I guess I dont really know then Airwave
15:46<Airwave>No problem. Thanks for trying.
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15:49<bluenemo>Airwave, 'might' help :) just ran debconf-get-selections --installer| egrep 'keyboard|layout' and it outputs me a d-i keyboard-configuration/layoutcode string us that might be what you are looking for
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15:49<ghormoon_deb>hi, is it normal that when you start lightdm it doesn't throw any error but doesn't stay running? (I'm trying to make it autostart with vnc, I want vnc without password on vnc itself, but I want it to show login screen so you can choose user too, also note that the system doesn't have a gpu, it has to run on the vnc display)
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15:50<Airwave>bluenemo: It says "for internal use," but I'll give it a try. Thanks!
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15:52<bluenemo>Airwave, if you find out pls ping me back, I will actually need that again soon as well :)
15:52<Airwave>bluenemo: Will do.
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15:58<Airwave>bluenemo: It worked! I was using all of these: Going to try removing them one-by-one to see which one does it.
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15:59<bluenemo>Airwave, cool :)
16:00<Airwave>Thanks for the tip.
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16:22<bluenemo>I have a few kvm machines I use for orchestration recipe development, which I just freeze (dunno what happens, use virt-manager, I guess some kind of suspend to disk). this causes the time of the guests to be wrong when I restart them. I installed ntp and configured it according to, I also set minpoll 6 and maxpoll 7 so it should update 36 to 49 seconds (its 6&7 to the power of
16:22<bluenemo>2 right?). sadly it doesnt, and the machines keep the bad time until I stop the ntp service (which uses the ntp port) and run a manual ntpdate myself. what could I be doing wrong? has anyone a working config paste for me?
16:23<bluenemo>restart should be unfreeze...
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16:28<Airwave>bluenemo: Maybe the delta is too large.
16:29<Airwave>bluenemo: I tried all of the five settings. Without "d-i keyboard-configuration/xkb-keymap select no" it will ask during installation, and without "d-i keyboard-configuration/layoutcode string no" it won't set it correctly, meaning you'll need both.
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16:31<bluenemo>ah ok, interesting. regarding ntp, you mean the delta between min and maxpoll? its actually the smallest timeframe possible, if I googled correctly. it should pick a time between those two given timeframes if I read correctly. Usually one takes hours here, I need it to be that often as the machines do not notice that they just woke up from sleeping, so I cant trigger anything for a wakeup
16:32<Airwave>bluenemo: I mean the delta between the system time and the time that the NTP server is reporting.
16:32<Airwave>Did you check the log?
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16:33<bluenemo>Airwave, hm. cant follow what you mean. when I run ntpdate by hand it works perfectly; what I need is the ntp server to do so by itself :) I did, logs nothing. sure i missed something..
16:33<valdyn>bluenemo: of course ntpd has a log
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16:34<bluenemo>yes, sry, it does not log anything in those timeframes, in fact it does log startup and stuff, but then its just idle.
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16:35<valdyn>bluenemo: the config file has "# Enable this if you want statistics to be logged."
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16:35<Airwave>bluenemo: ntpd can refuse to update the time if the delta between local time and server time is too large.
16:35<Airwave>ntpdate won't refuse.
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16:36<valdyn>the first assumption, that time is wrong when you resume a vm
16:36<bluenemo>ah wow, ok. hm. what can I do about that? ntpdate cron job?
16:36<valdyn>thats bogus
16:36<valdyn>bluenemo: the vm gets the time from the host
16:36<bluenemo>yes, the time is wrong when I resume them, correct
16:37<valdyn>bluenemo: theres totally no point in even running ntp in a vm
16:37<bluenemo>hm. i see. thank you for the hint, I will look into that!
16:38<valdyn>bluenemo: maybe you need to fix the timezone
16:38<bluenemo>out of curiosity: why will ntpd refuse to update the time when the delta is to big?
16:38<Airwave>bluenemo: Well you'd configure ntpd to not care about the delta, but valdyn's solution is much better.
16:38<valdyn>bluenemo: no
16:38<valdyn>bluenemo: just takes longer
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16:39<valdyn>bluenemo: switching time forward is easy, just jump, switching time backward is hard, ntp can probably only let time stand still, cant move it backwards
16:40<Airwave>"Normally, ntpd exits with a message to the system log if the offset exceeds the panic threshold, which is 1000 s by default."
16:40<valdyn>Airwave: nice
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16:40<bluenemo>when the machines wake up they are the seconds they slept in the past. as in when I suspend them at 10.00pm and wake them up at 11.00pm, there clocks are 1hour late.
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16:41<bluenemo>ah, fascinating. missed that, thanks for the hint Airwave
16:41<towski__>how do I add an environment variable to an application loader icon
16:42<valdyn>bluenemo: what vm type are you talking about anyway?
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16:43<Airwave>bluenemo: For the answer to /why/ it has the panic threshold, see the second paragraph under the "How NTP Operates" on
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16:52<bluenemo>Airwave, ok understand, and it makes quite much sense like it is ;) so the better way is to fix my kvm setup and then monitor the log with logwatch. thx again :)
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16:53<Airwave>Yeah, that's probably the best solution.
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16:57<ghormoon_deb>hi, I've experimented with more login managers and vnc servers but still no luck ... it is even possible to startup to login prompt when I don't have any GPU -> so I have display only when I start vnc server? there are tons of info on the net but it seems all of it is done on "standard pc" so it doesn't seem to work on vnc-only machine :(
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17:00<Airwave>ghormoon_deb: I don't think VNC will work for that. Maybe NX?
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17:02<ghormoon_deb>best I've managed so far was vnc logging into running (logged in) desktop, but I'd like it to ask for user/pwd so I won't have to spawn one for each user
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17:02<SynrGy>i do this at work to provide (xfce) desktops to users in a small development team
17:02<ghormoon_deb>SynrGy: how is the performance compared to vnc?
17:02<SynrGy>they normally have windows on their desktops. xrdp allows me to easily deliver debian desktops to them (and works well with linux clients as well: xfreerdp-x11)
17:03<SynrGy>rdp is inherently better
17:03<SynrGy>it is not pixel-based
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17:03<SynrGy>it's good enough to watch youtube videos in flashplayer with only slight delays
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17:04<ghormoon_deb>SynrGy: well it it will run on machine without display, i'm in :) (I need to work on a virtual machine which has no gpu)
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17:05<ghormoon_deb>heh, it seems to use vnc by default anyway ...
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17:07<Airwave>Yeah, both NX/X2Go and RDP should work for this.
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17:07<ghormoon_deb>Airwave: technically vnc should too, at least according those tons of guides on the net, but I'm doing something wrong :)
17:07<Airwave>VNC is so bad though.
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17:10<ghormoon_deb>well, what then, nx or rdp? (debian to debian)
17:11<ghormoon_deb>(I just want fullscreen desktop from the "server", I don't even have desktop environment on the "client"
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17:12<SynrGy>is there any nx server in debian? i didn't think there was.
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17:12<SynrGy>this narrowed the field for me to xrdp pretty quickly.
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17:14<ghormoon_deb>solved then :D I hope there's some client working fullscreen like that in debian, I don't really wanna pull something from source on the "client"
17:15<SynrGy>xfreerdp-x11 has a bazillion switches. get familiar with plugins
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17:15<SynrGy>clipboard integration, drive sharing, etc. all done through plugins
17:15<ghormoon_deb>ok, I'll give it a try then :)
17:15<Airwave>x2goclient is in jessie and wheezy-backports, but x2goserver isn't in Debian at all.
17:15<Airwave>No other NX client either.
17:15<Airwave>RDP seems like the best solution then.
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17:16<ghormoon_deb>hm, I'd have to add backports even for the client, hope RDP will work :D
17:16<Airwave>bluenemo: This is getting weirder. Keymap is being selected correctly when I load preseed from url, but not when loading from file.
17:17<Airwave>Very odd.
17:19<Airwave>ghormoon_deb: FreeRDP is a fantastic client. I haven't tried xrdp, so I don't know there.
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17:21<SynrGy>i must confess i'm only beginning to use xrdp. it works well enough for me on jessie so far ...
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17:21<SynrGy>i tend to interact with the system it's on mostly through ssh anyway, not through the desktop.
17:22<ghormoon_deb>Airwave: just installed that one because it was first I've seen and I have no idea where the hell did it put the binary (or how strange is the name) :P
17:22<SynrGy>but by putting xrdp there, i'm getting the other developers who are used to windows on their desktops something to play with
17:22<Airwave>ghormoon_deb: Which one? FreeRDP or xrdp?
17:22<ghormoon_deb>SynrGy: ssh is ok for most cases, but for the browser, IDE, ... it's not it :P (the "server" is meant to be a workstation, my primary one on my notebook)
17:23<Airwave>Binary is at /usr/bin/xfreerdp
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17:23<ghormoon_deb>ah, not free, but xfree :)
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17:25<ghormoon_deb>seems working (at least somehow) I'll just have to dig up where to set resolution and such ... gonna reboot if it wirks after that (I'm just now on the "server" just through the manually started vnc ... I have no other PC at hand and it really is pain to install such experimental setup on your workstation when only thing you can google on is crappy phone)
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17:29<ghormoon_>back, seems like success :)
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17:31<ghormoon_>now the fun part, build the more efficient transport :P
17:34<ghormoon_>I hope I have to do that only on server
17:35<bluenemo>Airwave, hm. Last time I did preseed installations is already quite some years ago, guess my experience is outdated. no clue on that one. have to go to bed now, hope you'll make it :) good luck, cu next ime
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17:36<Airwave>bluenemo: I have no more ideas left. URL works though. Good night, and thanks for the help.
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17:51<sora>hello debians
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17:59<MadHatter42>whats up
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18:15<MadHatter42>i've got this situation on both my debians
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18:57<gaffa>Hi, I hope one of you guys can save me some time figuring this out myself. I'm trying to fix some problems with the libstdc++-4.9-doc package and I'm trying to do it properly with quilt. My problem is that after dpkg-source -x I get a folder with the debian/ and two compressed files. How do I proceed to use quilt on a package like that?
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18:57<Brigo>gaffa, i think you bettera ask in debian-mentors or may be debian-devel.
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18:58<gaffa>Cheers mate, I'll do that :)
18:59<somiaj>gaffa: yes #debian-mentors would be a good place to ask. Aslo are you starting with the upstream lbstc++ package or trying to patch the curret debian source package.
18:59<stelicho>Hi all, I am having a really bad time setting up dual monitors. xrandr keeps telling me that the screen cannot be larger than 1920 even though I put a line in xorg.conf expanding the virtual size to fit both monitors. What am I not doing?
18:59<gaffa>somiaj; I'm patching the current debian source pkg.
19:02<gaffa>I need to fix a debian patch and create a new patch for upstream. So I thought, hey that's a great way to learn how to use quilt! :)
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19:03<somiaj>gaffa: oh I see, yea I missunderstood you, I haven't used dpkg-source -x, I always use apt-get source witch exands the debian/ directory for me
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19:06<somiaj>stelicho: look at xrandr -q, does it say the monintor supports any modes larger than 1920?
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19:11<stelicho>hdmi0 is 1600x900, the other is 1600x1200. The maximum for screen0 is 1920
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19:13<somiaj>stelicho: ahh you are trying to increase the maximum size for the virtuial screen not the device...not sure how that is set.
19:14<stelicho>hold on im going to try to reload x. I'll be back if that doesn't work
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19:22<_spOOn__>stelicho: i use xrandr --output VGA --left-of DVI1
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19:23<somiaj>_spOOn__: problem is his virtual size is not big enough to fit both of the resolutions
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19:24<stelicho>Ok so I restarted x, xrandr was able to get both monitors going! but now the right one, is just a distorted image almost like static
19:24<_spOOn__>virtual size is made up of the two screens put together, so if the resolution is correct for each monitor, it will work when you join them together
19:24<somiaj>stelicho: the wiki I see says you just need to set Virtual in your xorg.conf to be big enough, unsure where it is auto detected from. Another case do you have the intel 945GM chipset
19:24<ghormoon_>hi, is it possible to make numlock on by default when asking for dm-crypt/luks password? (it get's turned off just before that) I didn't manage to google that up :(
19:24<somiaj>ghormoon_: this can usually be set in the bios as the default status for numlock
19:26<stelicho>the virtual size was correct I just had to restart x. But the output is messed up for whatever reason
19:27<ghormoon_>somiaj: it is on in bios, it really is on in grub and such, but at the time it starts new shell ow what (it starts writing on top in 80x24) and asks for passwords, numlock gets off
19:28<somiaj>ghormoon_: hmm, not sure what could be turning it off.
19:29<somiaj>ghormoon_: I'm not seeing anything I know of that would be turning it off when the system loads.
19:29<stelicho>ghormoon: do you use xorg or hal?
19:29<ghormoon_>somiaj: well there's not much of the system at that stage :P only /boot is unencrypted :)
19:30<ghormoon_>stelicho: talking about the loader asking password after grub so it can decrypt /
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19:31<ghormoon_>I need to turn it on for other places too (like after startx) but for those google at least gives results, for the loeader, not really
19:31<somiaj>ghormoon_: well I didn't notice anything in /boot/grub that would be it either, so not sure. :/
19:32<somiaj>I'm just surprised that it gets toggled and always though this was just set by the bios and the bios setting
19:32<ghormoon_>somiaj: in grub it's on, the problem is in the decrypting tool after grub
19:33<somiaj>ghormoon_: yes I got that, as I said it is strange to me that something toggels it, I figured it was just a bios setting.
19:33<stelicho>So with this decrypting tool, what services start? Does it have any kind of output?
19:34<ghormoon_>stelicho: dunno how could I dig that output to copy :-/
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19:35<somiaj>since / has not been read, it would be something living in /boot I would imangine, but not sure what
19:35<somiaj>or maybe it is just the hardware detecting a change and reseting the numlock for some strange reason
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19:36<stelicho>Anything in var/log for your tool?
19:37<somiaj>i.e. could be something about your hardware/bios and not something in the software at all.
19:37<somiaj>stelicho: there won't be anything, his system is encrpyted so it would be impossible for it to write to the log files
19:37<stelicho>I see
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19:37<somiaj>i.e. as he said he is in a very strange spot, grub has loaded the initd image from /boot but is not to the point of decrypting his actual data.
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19:38<ghormoon_>I'll go reboot and check for some clues
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19:39<ghormoon_>what exactly is run at that time
19:39<somiaj>ghormoon_: you get the same behavior if or if not you configure the 'set numlock on' in the bios?
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19:39<somiaj>well as in the numlock is off when you want it to be on
19:39<ghormoon_>somiaj: I'll try that too
19:39<ghormoon_>I'll be back in a while
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19:47<ghormoon_>so when turned off in bios, it stays off ... it turns off at poin where it clears screen (seems like it has different (worse, old 80*24chars) resolution) and says "Loading, please wait ..." then it tries to load LVM volume (fails, it's encrypted), tries to decrypt, asks for password
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19:47<ghormoon_>tried few times to catch last line before that new shell, but no chance :(
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19:58<ghormoon_>heh, now I've sucessfully broke startx only by installing numlockx ... I think it doesn't like numlocks :D
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19:58<rpgdude>hey guys, just upgraded to jessie
19:58<rpgdude>gdm3 is started by systemd
19:58<rpgdude>but X doesnt start on my vt
19:58<rpgdude>startx works
19:59<rpgdude>any ideas?
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19:59<guilherme>hello guys
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20:13<somiaj>rpgdude: are you checking vt7 or vt2 for x when gdm starts?
20:14*SamB_laptop wonders why his mute button mutes more things than it unmutes ...
20:14<somiaj>That is a good button, does it mute the cat?
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20:16<SamB_laptop>no, just the Master and Speaker on my soundcard's ALSA device and the Master on PulseAudio's ALSA device
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20:19<SamB_laptop>how do I find out what program(s) is/are getting told I hit that key?
20:19<SamB_laptop>or even what key it is?
20:20<somiaj>SamB_laptop: this will be desktop dependent as the WM or the Desktop is what is seeing the key is pushed and running a program.
20:21<SamB_laptop>I was hoping there were tools I could use to find out
20:21<SamB_laptop>rather than have to search for arcane DE-specific lore
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20:22<somiaj>unforntally any tool would never recive the event. Fro example if you run 'xev' and press the mute button I doubt you will see any output that you pressed the mute button, this is becaues your de/wm intercepted the event then reacted.
20:22<somiaj>I'd look up 'desktopname default keybindings'
20:22<SamB_laptop>hence "how do I find out" rather than "tell me" ;-)
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20:23<SamB_laptop>somiaj: yes, I had noticed that I don't see anything about it from xev; I guess I was at least hoping for a tool that would get an earlier crack at the event
20:24<somiaj>I don't know of anything, hard to get between the xserver and the de/wm. But maybe if you knew xlib which well is voodoo magic in my experience
20:26<SamB_laptop>honestly I'm not sure which "keyboard" it even is ...
20:29<SamB_laptop>"xinput list" shows this:
20:29<somiaj>what de/wm are you running?
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20:33<somiaj>yea I like fvwm, 'PrintInfo Bindings' tells me exactly what my keybindings are, seeing if xfce has something similar
20:35<somiaj>SamB_laptop: do you have /etc/xdg/xfce4/ directory on your system?
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20:38<SamB_laptop>somiaj: yeah
20:38<somiaj>SamB_laptop: do you see a file /etc/xdg/xfce4/xfconf/xfce-perchannel-xml/xfce4-keyboard-shortcuts.xml -- that shold be the defaults
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20:40<somiaj>grep that file for mute that should tell you what the default command that key is bound too
20:40<SamB_laptop>don't see any media key stuff there though
20:40<somiaj>you don't see things like XF86AudioMute
20:40<somiaj>that should be the key name
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20:41<somiaj>you may also find far better help asking xfce where you figure out what the actual bindings are
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20:47<kenshin>Hi i need some help
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20:48<anudas>kenshin, put the question
20:49<kenshin>how to change gnome3 for mate in slim
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20:51<somiaj>kenshin: configure $HOME/.xsession to launch mate instead of gnome3 or tell slim which session you want (don't know how to configure slim off the top of my head but it hsould honor $HOME/.xsession)
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20:52<kenshin>i dont find $HOME/.xsession
20:52<somiaj>create it
20:53<kenshin>just .xsession-errors .xsession-errors.old
20:53<somiaj>I also think you can use update-alternatives to set the systemwide default wm/de, but $HOME/.xsession is good place for user configuration
20:53<somiaj>yea create .xsession, it isn't needed unless you want a user specific configuration which you want in this case
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20:55<kenshin>i try it
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20:57<kenshin>somiaj, thanks works fine
20:58<kenshin>kenshin@frankie:~$ sudo update-alternatives --config x-session-manager
20:58<MadHatter42>I have two debian hosts part of a /20 network
20:58<MadHatter42>M1( and M2(
20:58<somiaj>yea multiple ways to do it
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20:58<MadHatter42>On M2 i have a virtual netowrk ( with a virtual machine M3 (
20:58<MadHatter42>I've added the route for the via on M1
20:58<MadHatter42>Ive enabled forwarding on M2 and I can ping M1 from M3 but not the vice verca.
20:58<MadHatter42>How do I reach the M3 from the M1 ? (can ping M3 from M2 and M2 from M3)
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21:03<SamB_laptop>somiaj: hmm, found a solution that's working for now on
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21:04<somiaj>SamB_laptop: nice, I just get reinforced I'm happy to not use a full DE and have something that is configurable and easy to find what I want. (:
21:05<kenshin>Debian + Mate + Compiz = Love
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21:06<SamB_laptop>kenshin: compiz is dead!
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21:06<somiaj>I doubt mate will be much use either, to small of a team for such a big project, I'd suggest just getting a decent wm
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21:08<SamB_laptop>somiaj: it isn't the "one to throw away", though
21:08<kenshin>SamB_laptop, see that
21:08<MadHatter42>anyone ?
21:08<dpkg>Linux Mint is not Debian and is not supported in #debian. Please use their forums at or join #linuxmint-help on for support. Linux Mint is variously based on <Ubuntu> with a "Linux Mint Debian Edition" (LMDE) also available, based on <testing>. See also <based on debian>, <mintppc>.
21:09<kenshin>SamB_laptop, im sorry
21:09<kenshin>XD this is
21:09<kenshin>work realy fine
21:10<somiaj>kenshin: it is still a dead/outdated project that I wouldn't suggest using. It was so buggy it was removed from debian because it had major rc bugs. But if you can get it to work, enjoy your cube. (:
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21:11<SamB_laptop>(compiz, of course, *is* the "one to throw away")
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21:15<kenshin>somiaj, thanks for the advice :)
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21:17<ghormoon_>is there any way to check if wifi accepted wpa key? on ifup wlan0=wifi_home it gets to dhclient, but doesn't get response, so I'd like to know if it connected at all ...
21:18<somiaj>ghormoon_: after you run ifup wlan0=wifi_home, in another terminal run 'iwconfig wlan0' that will give you the status, tell you if it is assoicated with the ap or not
21:19<ghormoon_>nevermind, it was a typo in ssid :)
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21:43<ghormoon_>how difficult is to have more working default routes, when only deciding thing is interface (i won't know IP, it's laptop), all tutorials I've found count on that they know the IPs ...
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21:47<ghormoon_>worst case situaliton I have no idea what do do with is eth0 and wlan0 in the same subnet (but anyway, I generally want it to go "best possible connection" so if eth is ok, then eth, if not, then wlan, if not, then 3g)
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21:52<ghormoon_>hm, seems it doesn't drop routes from eth0 when disconncted ... maybe it will be easier with bonded interface ..
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21:54<sney>iproute2 has some kind of failover function I think, might be worth looking at
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22:11<rpgdude>somiaj: i checked both
22:11<rpgdude>somiaj: nothing
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22:17<everon>anyone know why cinnamon won't wake up after turning off the monitor and then back on in MINT 13? I have to kill the cinnamon ---replace process from the console to get my session back
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22:26<sney>everon: #linuxmint-help on
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22:33<everon>thank you very much
22:33<everon>gonna try the rolling debian mint 17 next so I might be back
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22:35<sney>that isn't supported here either. if it's mint it has its own channel on the same network as the one I just told you
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22:40<everon>how about xcfa?
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22:52<rsmith>Iceweasel in Wheezy no longer detects "a running copy of Gnome" when I'm trying to install extensions for Gnome. Is there an alternate way to install extensions?
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22:57<rsmith>nevermind, I was being silly
22:57<rsmith>please ignore
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23:22<demiadmin>I installed debian on a vm but when it booted up I got a warning saying gnome failed to launch but that a fallback was loaded. System monitor says gnome 3.4.2 though.
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23:22<demiadmin>total noob, should i not worry about it? lrol
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23:27<somiaj>demiadmin: to get gnome-shell you need a good graphics card, vms dont' have this so will just use fallback mode, that is fine and you only see that warning once usually
23:27<somiaj>demiadmin: gnome-shell just needs graphics acceleration for its features
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23:28<demiadmin>good to know thanks ^_^
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23:29<somiaj>gnome fans may say you are missing teh full experience of gnome, but I don't htink you can get that in a vm
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23:29<demiadmin>i just installed fedora with kde on my home box, just messing around with debian on a work computer before installing it on one of our servers
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23:31<demiadmin>after running fedora for a few days I got huge lag and noticed my mob was whining. I found two popped caps x.x
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23:32<demiadmin>point is I've never used gnome ha
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23:46<DesertRock>What features go missing when that happens?
23:47<everon>what brand mobo which kinda caps and what year?
23:47<demiadmin>I already ordered new caps. I built the box 6 years ago, chillin at the office right now, couldn't tell ya
23:47<demiadmin>I doubt fedora had anything to do with the popped caps lol
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23:48<everon>I had caps go on a 2005 asus mb maybe they were chinese fakes... had two antec PS go maybe fake in those too
23:49<towski_>my computer occasionally seems to shut down for no reason
23:49<demiadmin>what model caps?
23:49<demiadmin>brand* not model
23:49<towski_>is there a way to capture all shutdown signals and find out what might be causing it
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23:49<demiadmin>does it go through shutdown process? or does power just get pulled?
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23:50<towski_>it seems like the power just gets pulled
23:50<towski_>like a ghost is pressing down the power button
23:50<demiadmin>hows your temps?
23:50<towski_>hm is there a log of that somewhere
23:50<towski_>I know I installed sar to get a log of some cpu stuff
23:51<demiadmin>i installed debian earlier today for the first time, couldn't tell ya lol
23:52<everon>random shutdowns can occur for some simple reasons too like ram slighty out of click in and optional PS connectors like seasonics that that plug into the PS don't fit quite perfectly like other models soldered directly in
23:53<demiadmin>yeah reseat everything
23:53<demiadmin>mobos have an emergency shutoff built in to protect themselves from shorts
23:55<everon>they call it Full modular cabling design but the can be slightly loose and then randomly cause an issue untill inserted tighter
23:56<demiadmin>460w lawl
23:56<everon>and if the MB has been running for years the RAM might have been installed fine at first but then the heat just pops it out slightly and you need to reseat it
23:57<everon>the 460wat is amazing its the mercedes benz of PS... great for low power quiet servers.. it is a fanless ps you know
23:57<towski_>i do have a lot of ram
23:57<towski_>but it should only be a year old
23:57<demiadmin>yeah saw that, fanless... interesting...
23:58<demiadmin>reseat all your 128mb sticks :P
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23:59<everon>my desktops I've checked never use more than 200watts even when running h.264 encodes with handbrake so the PS for the desktop is great coupled with a fanless video card asus 7750 makes for a quiet environment
---Logclosed Thu Oct 23 00:00:07 2014