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#debian IRC Logs for 2015-03-10

---Logopened Tue Mar 10 00:00:13 2015
---Daychanged Tue Mar 10 2015
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00:52<sleser>guys is it posible to use an wireles keyboard mouse eye with ps3 wireles remote /
00:52<sleser>?
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00:57<SleepyHead>sleser what's that have to do with debian?
00:58<sleser>totaly nothing to do with debian
00:58<sleser>was just wondering if eye of a wireles keyboard mouse was universal
00:59<SamB_laptop>I don't even understand the question
01:00<sleser>nm
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03:51<arch>hi, guys, I'm trying to configure bridge by brctl in my virtual linux machine. I've set up interfaces like here https://wiki.debian.org/BridgeNetworkConnections#Configuring_bridging_in_.2Fetc.2Fnetwork.2Finterfaces with static ip. restarted network, ifconfig shows right setting in br0, but when I try to ping 192.168.1.1 it types "destination host unreachable".
03:51<arch>what I did wrong? should I enable some options in kernel?
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03:59<jm_>arch: and those settings are correct for you environment?
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04:01<arch>setting, which I typed to br0 in interfaces are working, if I disable bridging and type them to eth0
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04:03<arch>if i type ifconfig it shows only lo & br0, without eth0, eth1 is it normal?
04:04<jm_>I have a slightly different setup (with only one ethernet interface) and ifconfig of course shows eth0 because it needs to be in state UP
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04:11<arch>jm_: hm.... I just restarted network again, and eth0 & eth1 have raised. but problem remained
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05:45<sj13>Hi @OdyX, you there?
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06:16<OdyX>sj13 not staying online long enough, resorting to Twitter. *sigh*
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07:10<root>hello all! Does anyone know if there is a specific IRC chat for Raspberry Pis?
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07:11<Benberrypi>Do people actually chat in irc chats anymore ? ;)
07:12<aborrero>I think so :-)
07:12<Benberrypi>ah someone! heh
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07:12<Benberrypi>it's just the last few times I've been in irc chats there are always a ton of people and no one conversing
07:12<jm_>!tell Benberrypi -about rpi
07:12<jm_>this is not a chat channel, for that we have #debian-offtopic
07:13<Benberrypi>ah, this is for debian support only?
07:13<jm_>yes
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07:13<Benberrypi>I'd ask a question about my Debian VM I'm having problems yet, but I haven't yet narrowed down whether I am breaking Debian, or it is a something to do with virtual box
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07:14<Benberrypi>I'll mess around further before I bother you guys :P
07:15<jm_>adding more details might help someone to clarify it for you
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07:18<Benberrypi>sorry, unplugged my keyboard accidently
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07:19<Benberrypi>uh, well, I've loaded Debian in a virtual machine in virtual box, and after installing a few programs from the repositories like chromium/pidgin, I've rebooted it only after entering my encryption passphrase, I get a command line interface
07:20<Benberrypi>startx starts to act like it's doing something, but then after a minute I get the "whoops we've had a problem" screen
07:20<Benberrypi>clicking log out and logging back in merely repeats the process
07:20<jm_>look in X logfile /var/log/Xorg.0.log
07:21<Benberrypi>so, since I was too stupid to back up the virtual hard drive, and spending forever letting it format an imaginary disk, I backed it up right after installation, and after installing one program and rebooting I got the same error
07:22-!-marcello1 [~marcello@host80-203-dynamic.15-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Sto andando via]
07:22<jm_>and also make sure you install vbox guest utils in it
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07:22<jm_>guest additions or whatever they call it
07:23<Benberrypi>ah, wasn't aware there was something for making Debian play nice with it, I'll check it out. I was treating it like it was just any old computer and not paying attention that there may be something specific I need to do differently
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07:24<jm_>virtualbox-guest-x11 or virtualbox-ose-guest-x11 depending on which one you have installed
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07:25<Benberrypi>it is VirtualBox Graphical User Interface Version r
07:25<Benberrypi>r96997
07:25<Benberrypi>I should have mentioned that it is running on windows :-)
07:26<jm_>in that case use the vbox guest additions iso to have a matching version and install it from there
07:26<jm_>device -> insert guest additions cdrom is what I see here in the GUI
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07:28<Benberrypi>I should also mention the Debian version is Debian 7.7.0 for AMD64
07:28<jm_>yeah that's ok
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07:28<Benberrypi>by matching version, you mean matching to what?
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07:30<Benberrypi>and I see in the repositories I see a few things virtualbox-guest-source/cirtualbox-guest-utils/virtualbox-guest-xll and virtualbox-ose-guest-utils
07:30<Benberrypi>butchered that sentence lol
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07:31<jm_>matching vbox windows installation
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07:32<Benberrypi>virtualbox-guest-source - x86 virtualization solution - guest addition module source
07:32<Benberrypi>virtualbox-ose-guest-dkms - transitional package for virtualbox-guest-dkms
07:32<Benberrypi>virtualbox-ose-guest-source - transitional package for virtualbox-guest-source
07:32<Benberrypi>virtualbox-ose-guest-utils - transitional package for virtualbox-guest-utils
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07:33<Benberrypi>gee, it asked me if I wanted to paste or not, didn't warn me that would be a problem!
07:33<Benberrypi>guess I know better now
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07:36<Benberrypi>well the guest utils it installed are 4.1.18, so there are guest-utils that match the 4.3.20 or do I just need to find 4.3?
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07:37<jm_>like I said, I would grab guest additions iso that matches your windows vbox version, try Devices -> Insert Guest ...
07:39<Benberrypi>sorry if I'm pretty ignorant, try that where?
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07:40<jm_>don't you have Devices menu in windows vbox gui window where debian vm is running?
07:40<Benberrypi>oops, yeah, sorry, I was looking at the main virtualbox screen
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07:41<Benberrypi>it said error auto-running program, can not find autorun
07:43<jm_>try to mount it manually in debian
07:45<Benberrypi>it won't even pop anything up now, will I need to go to virtualbox's website or Debian's to find the actual guest utils ISO?
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07:45<Benberrypi>I assume virtualbox right?
07:45<jm_>yeah vbox -> downloads
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07:47<Benberrypi>yeah, I definitely should have checked out their wiki/manual, cause now I see the Status: Works.... with additions :D
07:48<jm_>the user manual says the iso is part of the installation
07:48<jm_>see https://www.virtualbox.org/manual/ch04.html#idp95702144
07:49<jm_>if you need help with vbox in windows try #vbox on irc.freenode.net, for the debian part we can contiune here
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07:50<Benberrypi>well I think you pointing me in the direction that there are additions needed for it to run stable is probably going to do it! I'll check them out if I need more help configuring it further
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07:51<jm_>it's only a matter of mounting the CD in debian and running the installer
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07:52<Benberrypi>yeah, I haven't mounted anything in Debian yet but I'm sure I can figure it out if not by myself then with some documentation
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07:52<Benberrypi>I appreciate you taking the time to offer me help a whole lot!
07:53<jm_>normally it would be just mount /media/cdrom0 or maybe cdrom1
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08:17<BenBerryPi>"In Debian Linux and derivatives armhf (ARM hard float) refers to the ARMv7 architecture "
08:18<BenBerryPi>does this mean that Debian will run on Armv7?
08:19<jm_>installation manual documents supported hardware
08:19<themill>BenBerryPi: you need to find a kernel for the hardware though
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08:21<BenBerryPi>yeah I looked through the chart in supported hardware, unless I'm looking at the wrong place, but I haven't a clue what ARM Vs. ARM with hardware FPU means
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08:23<jm_>if you are asking if debian runs on rpi then it does
08:24<BenBerryPi>so I looked up what armh was, and though I'm still confused I found that line in the wiki article about that referring to Armv7, I guess my only question is does that mean it is possible some one will eventually make a Debian version that supports the new Raspberry PI2 which has a new quad core ArmV7 chip
08:24<BenBerryPi>instead of Raspian
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08:25<BenBerryPi>or you mean that you can already load Debian on the Pi?
08:25<jm_>BenBerryPi http://sjoerd.luon.net/posts/2015/02/debian-jessie-on-rpi2/
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08:26<BenBerryPi>ah, cool, already there! I was just curious, I'm sticking to Raspian and learning Debian for my main OS eventually
08:27<BenBerryPi>well I mean switching to it as my only OS, thanks for the information and the help! It is most thoroughly appreciated!
08:28<jm_>enjoy
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08:29<uczenKUPA>hej
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08:29<uczen>czesc
08:29<uczenKUPA>siema
08:29<uczen>łachu
08:29<uczenKUPA>KUPA
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08:29<uczenKUPA>SIema
08:29<uczen_3>siema
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09:04<sj13>@OdyX couldn't stay online. Had classes. Can we discuss about the project, whenever you are free?
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09:19<OdyX>sj13 now needs to get an IRC proxy. :)
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10:01<lanoxx>Hi all
10:02<lanoxx>I have been reading about systemd and it being the default starting with jessie. I have been experimenting with a debian-unstable install for a few days and I noticed that init scripts in /etc/init.d/* are still largely present, somehow I was expecting not to see any of those scripts. So my question is where can I read more about the systemd migration in debian?
10:03<OdyX>lanoxx: in the release notes: https://www.debian.org/releases/jessie/amd64/release-notes/ch-information.en.html#systemd-upgrade-default-init-system
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10:03<OdyX>!systemd
10:03<dpkg>systemd is a system and service manager for Linux, compatible with SysV and LSB init scripts. It is a replacement for <sysvinit>. systemd is shipped as a technology preview in Debian 7 "Wheezy" and will be be the default init system in Debian 8 "Jessie". https://wiki.debian.org/systemd #debian-systemd on irc.oftc.net http://freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd #systemd on irc.freenode.net. See also <why systemd>.
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10:05<Brigo>lanoxx, packages install systemv scripts (in /etc/init.d/) and systemd units allways so you can run both init systems whenever you want.
10:06<lanoxx>thanks for all the pointers. One more thing: I found this question on unix.SO: http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/115231/how-to-replace-sysvinit-with-systemd-in-debian/115239#115239 which indicates that jessie will use systemd in some kind of compatibility mode, where can i find more information about this compatiblity mode?
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10:09<Brigo>lanoxx, it mean that systemd look at /etc/init.d/ and generates unit files for those scripts if there isn't yet a unit file for that service.
10:10<lanoxx>Brigo, so do unit files always take precedence over those init scripts? And can i just ignore the scripts then?
10:11<Brigo>lanoxx, yes, if the unit is present systemd will use it and the /etc/init.d/ scripts will be useless.
10:13<lanoxx>Brigo, i see. Is the symlink between /sbin/init and /lib/systemd/systemd also something that exists for compatibility?
10:14<Brigo>more or less, kernel will search for /sbin/init at boot time (it use to be de default configuration in boot manager).
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10:30<sj13>\quit
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10:31<OdyX>Damn. Can't get to catch her
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10:42<jack>这么多人?
10:42<jack>还能显示中文
10:42<jack>test
10:43<petn-randall>!cn
10:43<dpkg>如果您想要得到中文的協助,請加入伺服器上的 #debian-zh (irc.oftc.net) 頻道,加入方法為在輸入框中輸入 "/server irc.oftc.net" 和 "/join #debian-zh" (不要加引號),謝謝您的合作!
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10:43<petn-randall>jack: See above. This is an english-only channel.
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11:14<miguel>www.hotmail.com
11:14<miguel>miguel
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12:19<m4st3r>Hi there
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13:02<GuilainC>Dear all, I'm looking for to buy a new laptop, and as a debian fan(atic) since 1999 as a simple user, this next laptop should run under debian too :)
13:03<GuilainC>I'm really love the lenovo Yoga 2, 2 Pro and Thinkpad yoga 15
13:03<GuilainC>the question is what's the actual support of these laptop in debian
13:03<pangolinrollin>I personally have bought from and recommend http://www.system76.com .. comes preloaded with ubuntu and is an hour away from debian ( what i'm running on mine ;) )
13:04-!-grrrrrr [~libertad@0001866c.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
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13:04*GuilainC take a look
13:04-!-live [~live@abzn70.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:05<GuilainC>thanks pangolinrollin, little precision, I'm in Europe, close to the Eiffel Tower (Paris)
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13:06<pangolinrollin>I see.. hope they have international shipping :P lol
13:06<pangolinrollin>sorry
13:06<pangolinrollin>actually my name is because I bought the "pangolin" model laptop to dev on :P
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13:11<Colloguy>is there a combination wifi/bluetooth card with free firmware that fits in a NGFF slot?
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13:15<valdyn>Atheros QCNFA222 NGFF 802.11a/b/g/n 2.4GHz/5GHz + BT 4.0 WiFi Card ?
13:15<valdyn>Colloguy: that seems to fit
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13:16<Colloguy>is "AR5BWB222" the chipset?
13:16<valdyn>Colloguy: no
13:17<Colloguy>I'm using this list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_open-source_wireless_drivers does your card fall under the ath9k entry, which I read as "any atheros card with 802.11n support"?
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13:19<Ghostxmaster4>hello
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13:20<Ghostxmaster4>what does debian servers mean????
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13:20<valdyn>Colloguy: I dont know the card, im just googling. SO i dont know *which* atheros chip this is
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13:20<centrx>Ghostxmaster4, Debian is an operating system for computers. Some computers act as servers, serving services to other computers.
13:20<Ghostxmaster4>ok thanks
13:21<blast007>Colloguy: seeing it mentioned that it has an AR9462 chipset
13:21<valdyn>Colloguy: for all i know, "free firmware" limits your choice to atheros anyway
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13:22<Colloguy>valdyn: yeah, and to only select atheros cards at that
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13:23<blast007>that chipset is mentioned on the ath9k site
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13:23<valdyn>well, the wlan side is supported. I have no idea about the bt4.0
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13:24<Colloguy>blast007: i see it there too, but I seem to have trouble finding out the chipset of products on the market, like the one valdyn mentioned
13:24<valdyn>Colloguy: https://wikidevi.com/wiki/Qualcomm_Atheros_QCNFA222
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13:26<Colloguy>sweet
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13:27<valdyn>Colloguy: some atheros firmware is free, some is not
13:27<valdyn>Colloguy: but at this point you probably dont have a choice
13:27<pi>hi
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13:28*pangolinrollin eats non-free for breakfast
13:29<pi>i am new at this can some one tell me how do i set up my nick and/or change it after
13:30<blast007>pi: /nick NewNickhere (as for configuring your client, you'd have to read the documentation)
13:30<babirusa>use the command "/set nick yourdesirednick"
13:30<valdyn>Colloguy: wikipedia claims that this chip does not need a firmware at all
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13:31<Colloguy>valdyn: yeah, in that table I linked, the ath9k row, right?
13:31<valdyn>Colloguy: yes
13:33<valdyn>Colloguy: I think this chip is the best option, even outside free/non-free considerations
13:33<Colloguy>could you summarize why? I'm a newbie at selecting wifi cards
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13:35<valdyn>Colloguy: everything you can do with wlan you can do with this chip. Everything can join a wlan network. This one can sniff traffic or be an access point or whaterver has any support in linux at all
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13:35<blast007>Colloguy: do you know if the system you intend to put it into restricts which devices it will allow?
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13:36<Colloguy>it will probably be a dell refurb xps 15, I don't think dell uses whitelists
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13:37<Colloguy>I'll be "downgrading" from the stock 802.11ac card, hopefully that isn't an issue...
13:38<valdyn>Colloguy: if you want to stick to ac then you need an ath10k card. Im not sure it exists.
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13:39<Colloguy>its an intel wifi card I'm downgrading from, and according to the table Ath10k cards have nonfree firmware
13:39<valdyn>Colloguy: yes, same as intel
13:39<valdyn>Colloguy: why would you drop the intel though?
13:39<valdyn>Colloguy: (only b/c of the firmware?)
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13:40<Colloguy>yeah, and I don't care about the speed, and you said the replacement card is full-featured, and that's all I care about
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13:41<valdyn>Colloguy: intel has excellent drivers. But the functionality is (or used to be) restricted and firmware is non-free.
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13:42<valdyn>Colloguy: iwlwifi supports all but mesh, so i would think again if free firmware is that important to you
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13:42<Colloguy>"all but mesh"?
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13:43<valdyn>Colloguy: I havent used mesh. Its typically a network where each member acts as an access point for everyone else.
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13:44<valdyn>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_mesh_network
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13:46<valdyn>Colloguy: without mesh support this is just done using 2 wlan interfaces. I don't know where this is used in the real world.
13:46<Colloguy>it's just a wifi card, so my primary concern is firmware; it's speed or other characteristic don't really impact me much
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13:51<Colloguy>thanks alot valdyn!
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14:24<mvalley1978>zorin os
14:24<mvalley1978>is this the room for zorin os
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14:27<Maulkin>!zorin
14:27<dpkg>Zorin OS is a Linux distribution based on <Ubuntu>. It is not supported in #debian. http://www.zorin-os.com/ #zorinos on irc.freenode.net. See also <based on debian>.
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14:30<pangolinrollin>fuck zorin.. ^ are you serious?
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14:44<klandri>sup guys I just tried to install Debian 7.8 Wheezy full installation using the big DVD iso(s) and I can't launch Gnome
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14:44<klandri>it is installed
14:45<klandri>according to apt-get but won't start
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14:45<klandri>I'm stuck in the terminal
14:45<musca>hello klandri
14:46<klandri>hi
14:46<musca>which graphics card do you use?
14:46<klandri>let me check
14:46<musca>lspci -nn | grep -i vga
14:47<klandri>some intel integrated graphics driver
14:47<klandri>Valleyview Gen7
14:47<klandri>cheap laptop
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14:47<klandri>also I should note I don't have an internet connection as of yet
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14:47<klandri>which is why I used the big isos
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14:49<musca>ok. most intel graphics will work ootb, but for some the situation is bad: PowerVR-based intel GMA500 (often found in cheap laptops)
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14:50<mtn>klandri: what happens when you try to start gnome? errors? warnings?
14:50<klandri>when I run startx I get
14:50<klandri>Fatal server error:
14:50<klandri>no screens found
14:51<klandri>googled that but found nothing useful
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14:51<mtn>klandri: is gdm installed?
14:52<klandri>gdm3
14:52<klandri>yes
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14:52<mtn>klandri: what happens when you boot? where does it stop?
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14:53<klandri>first I get some uefi message asking if I want to enter Debian or Debian recovery mode then I'm directly booted into a terminal
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14:53<klandri>that asks for encryption key
14:53<klandri>then alt-f1 to log in
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14:53<klandri>and I'm in the bash terminal
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14:55<mtn>klandri: that sounds like another problem besides graphics to me, but not sure what
14:57<klandri>when I try 'service gdm3 start' I get '[FAIL] Starting GNOME Display Manager: gdm3 failed!'
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15:07<dargav>hello
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15:07<dargav>wondering if anyone can help with exim config issue or direct me to debian exim channel
15:08-!-mode/#debian [+l 703] by debhelper
15:08<valdyn>!tell dargav -about ask
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15:09<dargav>I am tryign to figure out where to place acl_mail_from: in the config?
15:09<dargav>is it conf.d/acl/30_exim4-config_check_rcpt ?
15:09<dargav>trying to implement http://www.exim.org/exim-html-current/doc/html/spec_html/ch-access_control_lists.html
15:10<valdyn>dargav: how about exim4.conf.localmacros ?
15:10<dargav>i am on 6.0.10
15:10<dargav>ok. i can check
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15:11<dargav>i will try that. thanks
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15:13<Male>Hola
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15:17<Male>hola
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15:29<Wulf>hi
15:30<Wulf>how can I find out what happened to the libphash0 package? Why is not no longer available in sid?
15:33<centrx>Wulf, packages.qa.debian.org/libphash0 will eventually get you to: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=751916
15:33<Wulf>centrx: thanks!
15:33<Wulf>so if I still need it, I have to package it myself?
15:34<centrx>Wulf, You can try the old version from http://snapshot.debian.org/
15:34<Wulf>I also would like to use the most current upstream version
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15:35<centrx>ok yeah, you'll have to build that yourself
15:35<centrx>If they have a good Debian repository set up you can use that
15:35<Wulf>centrx: it's a dead project
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15:35<Wulf>but one of my users wants to use that lib
15:36<Lightkey>"Unable to resolve dependencies for the upgrade: no solution found." that's a first
15:37<centrx>Wulf, Download the source and build it into /usr/local or a .deb package
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15:41<Lightkey>oh, it was libjpeg-progs.. purge
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15:54<Lightkey>abrotman, valdyn: someone else asked already, that's the answer: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=772890#27
15:54*abrotman blinks ...
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16:56<archie>hey
16:56<retrospectacus>hi archie
16:56-!-hele [~hele@212-149-200-198.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
16:56<archie>sorry i dont realy know where i am?
16:57<retrospectacus>archie: you're in the debian support channel
16:57-!-melmothX [~melmoth@24-137.dsl.iskon.hr] has quit [Quit: #]
16:57<retrospectacus>if you have a Debian support channel, just ask!
16:57<Lightkey>somewhere in the solar system
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16:58<archie>it ' s a kind of forum? subject : jessie freeze?
16:58<retrospectacus>a chat room
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16:59<centrx>Topic is a variety of different information
16:59<archie>you are the moderator?
16:59<centrx>This is the real Internet you are on right now
16:59<centrx>I am a robot from the future
16:59<retrospectacus>archie: there are moderators,but I am not
17:00<archie>you' re talking about technical things or everything? sorry i m new!!!
17:01<centrx>Mainly questions about using Debian
17:01<archie>sorry for my english, i' m french
17:01-!-adamaze [~adam@c-73-176-115-14.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #debian
17:01<centrx>There are many channels and many networks
17:01<retrospectacus>this channel (room) is Debian support. There are other channels for general chat, e.g. #moocows or #debian-offtopic
17:02<archie>If i got problems with my config, i can ask here for that?
17:03<centrx>!ask
17:03<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
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17:05<archie>it s perfect! i and many questions
17:06<retrospectacus>please do.
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17:17<adamaze>im using rsnapshot in debian, and some googling led me to try rsnapshot-diff with the "-s" option, but it doesnt look like that is included in my version
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17:17<adamaze>i see it in this changelog: http://cpansearch.perl.org/src/DCANTRELL/App-Rsnapshot-1.999_00002/ChangeLog
17:18-!-mode/#debian [+l 696] by debhelper
17:18<adamaze>but im not sure if that is official or what...
17:18<retrospectacus>judd: file bin/rsnapshot-diff
17:18<judd>Search for bin/rsnapshot-diff in wheezy/i386: rsnapshot: usr/bin/rsnapshot-diff
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17:18<retrospectacus>adamaze: if you're on wheezy, it should be there
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17:19<retrospectacus>,v rsnapshot
17:19<judd>Package: rsnapshot on i386 -- squeeze: 1.3.1-1; wheezy: 1.3.1-3; jessie: 1.3.1-4; sid: 1.3.1-6
17:19<adamaze>i am indeed on wheezy
17:19<retrospectacus>I see, you want the -s option but it is not in 1.3.1
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17:20<adamaze>retrospectacus: so in that changelog i linked to, the "x" in 1.3.x says that it is unreleased?
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17:21<retrospectacus>I guess so
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17:24<retrospectacus>adamaze: if you really need it you can apply the patch linked to the rsnapshot-diff binary
17:25<adamaze>the rsnapshot.org site is a bit barren, could you point me in the right direction to get official rsnapshot stuff?
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17:27<retrospectacus>what are you looking for?
17:27<adamaze>i guess im not really sure... i have never had to try and dive this deep :-P
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17:28<retrospectacus>adamaze: on the link you posted, there is a reference to a mailing list. Go there
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17:28<retrospectacus>adamaze: the first reply includes a patch to enable -s function
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17:29<retrospectacus>adamaze: open that file; it is a "diff" describing the patch. You may apply it to /usr/bin/rsnapshot-diff which is a perl script
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17:30<retrospectacus>you can apply the diff using then "patch" command or do it manually with your favourite editor
17:30<adamaze>awesome
17:31<adamaze>follow up question: what might be a reason that after 6ish years, this hasn't made it into rsnapshot officially?
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17:32<jhutchins>adamaze: Because developers.
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17:33<adamaze>from what i can tell here, the issue is in the rsnapshot developers court, as the debian maintainers have been doing a good job?
17:34<retrospectacus>looks like it.
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17:36<adamaze>retrospectacus: thanks for the help!
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17:37<retrospectacus>anytime
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17:55<adamaze>retrospectacus: just finished patching and testing rsnapshot-diff from that mailing list. it was much easier than i thought. thanks again!
17:55<retrospectacus>nice work :)
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18:04<knoppix_>Anyone running Knoppix?
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18:05<Guest566>Anyone running Knoppix
18:05<peter1138>Possibly not in #debian
18:05<Guest566>Are people running debian from a bootable persistant USB?
18:06<Guest566>That is how I have knoppix
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18:31<Jobbe>Is compiz removed from jessie ?
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18:37<Brigo>Jobbe, yes and form wheezy
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18:51<asklepian>so, unfortunately, the debian DVD images come as DVD1, DVD2, DVD3
18:52<asklepian>how do I use these when attempting to do an install using a USB drive?
18:52-!-ph0b0s [~panos@ppp079166005126.access.hol.gr] has joined #debian
18:52<asklepian>also, how do I install my wireless drivers without internet access?
18:52<Wulf>asklepian: can't you use netinst?
18:53<asklepian>nope
18:53<asklepian>only wifi
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18:53<Wulf>asklepian: then boot the netinst image from usb or so
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18:53<asklepian>no. internet.
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18:54<asklepian>only wi-fi
18:54<Wulf>wi-fi is not internet?
18:54-!-dun [~y@2a00:1158:3::1ea] has quit [Quit: quit]
18:54<Wulf>asklepian: anyway. Do you need more than DVD1?
18:54<asklepian>I can't use the internet because I need to install the appropriate drivers, which requires the internet, which requires the drivers...
18:55<Wulf>put the drivers in the netinst image ;)
18:55<asklepian>how?
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18:55<Wulf>get the kernel module from somewhere, copy it to the image, insmod it. I'm sure there are cleaner ways, but that one should work
18:56<asklepian>insmod?
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18:56<asklepian>consider me a fast-learning newb
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18:57<Brigo>asklepian, download netinstall debian image from cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/
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18:58<Brigo>it will add the wifi firmware that you need and install from it.
18:58<Wulf>oh, that sounds good.
18:58<Wulf>asklepian: what Brigo said.
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19:00<asklepian>how does it know what wifi firmware I need?
19:00<retrospectacus>it has them all
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19:01<asklepian>b43 firmware?
19:01<retrospectacus>fo sho
19:01<asklepian>aight
19:02<asklepian>I'll get it did n be back
19:02<retrospectacus>you can also supply firmware on externl media:
19:02<retrospectacus>!installer firmware
19:02<dpkg>Debian-Installer is able to load additional <firmware>, by including it within installation media or supplying on removable media (e.g. USB stick, floppy). See http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/ch06s04 . To include firmware within Debian <netboot> images, see http://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/NetbootFirmware . See also <firmware images>.
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19:03<asklepian>see, the netinst I have gave me that option
19:03<asklepian>but I could figure out how to download it
19:03<asklepian>it's easy to just apt-get
19:03<asklepian>but my other machine is a mac and I don't know how to 'apt-get' with it
19:03<retrospectacus>you can download it by http
19:04<retrospectacus>from packages.debian.org or any mirror
19:05<asklepian>but how do you handle dependencies?
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19:06<retrospectacus>well, you can't, not easily. But firmware doesn't usually have any deps
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19:08<retrospectacus>I think you will need b43-fwcutter and firmware-b43-installer
19:10<asklepian>ok, I'm trying it with my original netinst image
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19:10<asklepian>it's looking for the actual firmware files, which I believe b43-fwcutter builds
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19:11<asklepian>will it recognize the packages if I put them on a USB?
19:11-!-melmothX_ [~melmoth@24-109.dsl.iskon.hr] has joined #debian
19:11<retrospectacus>that's the idea. Check the instructions
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19:14<SamB_laptop>huh, they recommend to use FAT! is that really more likely to work so early in installation, or just more likely to work with whatever other OSes the user might have on hand?
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19:15<asklepian>ok, how do I tell what architecture to use?
19:16<asklepian>does amd64 refer to AMD as opposed to intel?
19:16<asklepian>or is that just generic for 64-bit?
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19:16<SamB_laptop>asklepian: it's named in AMD's honor because they came up with the basic architecture
19:16<asklepian>ahh ok
19:17<asklepian>so if I have an intel 64 bit chip that's what I use...
19:17<SamB_laptop>unless it's an itanium, yes ;-)
19:18<shirish>does anybody know how to know if one is in bash shell or zsh shell ?
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19:19<asklepian>ok, I've loaded the .deb files onto a USB and inserted it... after selecting 'yes' to 'Load missing firmware from removable media?' the installer pauses and just returns to that question...
19:20<asklepian>how do I get the installer to use these firmware files?
19:21<retrospectacus>it's been a long time, but that might be all
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19:23<asklepian>but it isn't working...
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19:24<asklepian>I assume the installer has bzip2 and wget
19:24<retrospectacus>surely
19:24<asklepian>...although, how is wget a dependency?
19:24-!-daniel-s_ [~daniel-s@mu00053769.eng.monash.edu.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:24<asklepian>if I don't have internet access...
19:25<asklepian>?
19:25<asklepian>that doesn't make sense
19:25<retrospectacus>you can try doing the dpkg -i on them in terminal 2
19:25-!-daniel-s_ [~daniel-s@mu00053769.eng.monash.edu.au] has joined #debian
19:25<asklepian>how do I get to terminal from the graphical installer?
19:26<retrospectacus>press ctrl-alt-F2
19:26<asklepian>nope
19:26<asklepian>oesn't work
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19:26<retrospectacus>I think F1 is the installer, and F4 is a log
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19:27<asklepian>nothing is happening...
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19:27<retrospectacus>hm. it's always worked for me
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19:29<asklepian>ok
19:29<asklepian>got it
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19:32<asklepian>ok, what's an easy way to identify which drive is my USB?
19:32<asklepian>I'm in dev but there's a bunch of options
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19:33<asklepian>I can't cd to sda/b/c
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19:34<centrx>asklepian, lsusb
19:34<retrospectacus>you'd need to mount it
19:34<asklepian>centrx lsusb not found
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19:35<asklepian>mounting I can do
19:35<centrx>asklepian, lsusb is in package usbutils, but actually it looks like it doesn't have the device name
19:35<centrx>asklepian, also try lsblk
19:35-!-magnetophon [~bart@a83-163-205-75.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:35<asklepian>also not found
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19:36<centrx>asklepian, These are command-line utilities you can run from any directory, not devices in /dev/
19:36<asklepian>I'm not calling them from /dev/
19:37<asklepian>I'm just typing 'lsusb'
19:37<asklepian>and 'lsblk'
19:37-!-pangolinrollin [~u4oriakil@162.210.104.10] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
19:37<asklepian>I assume bash is looking through the appro[riate /bin files
19:37<asklepian>in any case, neither is found
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19:38<asklepian>any other tool I can use to figure out what to mount to /mnt?
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19:39<centrx>asklepian, Okay if that's true then there must be something very wrong with your system
19:39<asklepian>it's a netinstall
19:39<centrx>asklepian, lsblk is in util-linux, and util-linux is a Required, Essential package.
19:39<centrx>ah ok
19:39<asklepian>so, trimmed, I assume
19:40<asklepian>although a bit too trimmed if it's a netinstall without wifi drivers
19:40<centrx>asklepian, You can probably assume that it's /dev/sdb1
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19:40<asklepian>I'll try that
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19:42<asklepian>I got something in sdb1
19:42-!-infinity0 [~infinity0@e179107054.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #debian
19:42<asklepian>but it's not what I'm looking for
19:42<asklepian>any other way to try to figure this out?
19:43<retrospectacus>try sdc or something else
19:43<centrx>yeah just go down the alphabet I guess
19:43<asklepian>tried c1 and c2
19:43<asklepian>it can't be a
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19:44<asklepian>and I don't see anything else in /dev
19:44<asklepian>(looking confused)?
19:44<retrospectacus>how many disks do you have?
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19:45<retrospectacus>unplug and plug it and type dmesg
19:45-!-daniel-s_ [~daniel-s@mu00053769.eng.monash.edu.au] has joined #debian
19:46<asklepian>well, at this point, there's the SSD to which I'm trying to install Debian, the USB from which the netinstall is running, and the USB from which I'm attempting to install my wifi drivers
19:46-!-beknowly [~Thunderbi@50.125.144.84] has joined #debian
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19:47<asklepian>I mean, honestly, it's a netinstall... you'd think they'd just put all the ethernet and wifi drivers they have in the ISO...
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19:48<asklepian>looks like it's sdc
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19:49<asklepian>now, why would sdc be blank?
19:49-!-daniel-s_ [~daniel-s@mu00053769.eng.monash.edu.au] has joined #debian
19:50<asklepian>I JUST put the .deb files on the thing...
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19:51<asklepian>this should be so much simpler
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19:52<asklepian>ok, I checked and re-checked it
19:52<asklepian>it must be a formatting thing
19:53<asklepian>what format should my drive be in for this netinstall to pick it up?
19:53<asklepian>cause, right now, it's saying it's blank
19:53<centrx>ext4?
19:53<asklepian>and if my mac can't do that?
19:53<centrx>fat32 should work too
19:53<asklepian>fat32 it is
19:54<centrx>-t vfat
19:54<asklepian>?
19:54<centrx>if you need to specify the filesystem type to mount, that's what FAT32 is called, vfat
19:55<asklepian>wait, so, 'mount -t vfat /dev/sdc1' ?
19:55<centrx>Yes, it may not be necessary
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19:55<Arrowmaster>asklepian: your trying to add drivers to a netinstall usb?
19:56<asklepian>I wouldn't phrase it that way
19:56<asklepian>basically the netinstall can't access the internet because it doesn't have the necessary drivers for my wifi card
19:56<retrospectacus>it's b43
19:57<asklepian>which seems like the most elementary oversight for a netinstall
19:57<Arrowmaster>did you use the official or unofficial netinstall?
19:57<asklepian>if I were designing it, it would have every network driver imaginable on it
19:57<asklepian>Arrowmaster, I actually don't recall tbh
19:57<Arrowmaster>the official one does not include any non-free binary blobs
19:57<blast007>asklepian: it's not drivers, it's firmware. the official one doesn't have non-free firmware on it.
19:57<Arrowmaster>http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/
19:58<asklepian>so, this includes b43?
19:58<Arrowmaster>make a new netinstall usb with the iso from that link
19:58<Arrowmaster>it should i think
19:58<asklepian>and this is a directory... where is the iso?
19:58<Arrowmaster>which netinstall do you want? jessie?
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19:58<devrikx>couldn't he just drop the firmware package (extracted) into the root?
19:58<abrotman>It does
19:59<abrotman>if he has the .deb file, he should be able to dpkg -i the .deb file
19:59-!-warhead [~idontknow@46.166.188.251] has joined #debian
19:59<blast007>as mentioned, the b43 stuff depends on wget - so that would imply it's going to try downloading the firmware, right?
20:00<Arrowmaster>everything will be included in the unofficial iso
20:00<asklepian>...very counterintuitive that
20:00<blast007>asklepian: not if you have a wired connection as well
20:00<abrotman>blast007: I tohught the b43-fwcutter could use one in the package?
20:00<asklepian>lol
20:00<Arrowmaster>asklepian: which version of debian do you want to netinstall, ill give you the direct iso link if you want
20:01<asklepian>if I had a wired connection, this wouldn't be a problem
20:01-!-gusnan_ [~gusnan@s213-100-228-162.cust.tele2.se] has joined #debian
20:01<asklepian>Arrowmaster, I guess stable
20:01<blast007>abrotman: dunno.. I only ever use linux on servers and VMs, so I don't have to deal with wifi firmware ;)
20:01<asklepian>I should be able to upgrade/downgrade from that just fine
20:02-!-adb [~IonMoldov@2a02:120b:c3d1:5780:baac:6fff:fe67:305f] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:02<abrotman>blast007: No one should :(
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20:03<Arrowmaster>asklepian: http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/7.8.0/amd64/iso-cd/firmware-7.8.0-amd64-netinst.iso
20:03<gsimmons>Arrowmaster: Your suggestion won't work. The firmware images do not contain firmware for the b43 drivers (these are unable to be distributed by Debian).
20:03<Arrowmaster>ah
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20:04<asklepian>sooo... don't download this iso?
20:04*abrotman would at least try it
20:04<asklepian>and, honestly, how am I supposed to install this without a wired ethernet connection?
20:05<abrotman>asklepian: It should have the firmware you need for wireless
20:05<asklepian>ok
20:05<asklepian>9 minutes left on the DL
20:05<asklepian>we'll see
20:06<asklepian>I realize that debian prides itself in the free/non-free distinction
20:06<asklepian>but some things (like just *getting* debian in the first place) should "just work"
20:06<devrikx>Youl really could just drop the firmware package in your current usb. As they've stated intel and many other wifi drivers do not meet the DFSG and so they are part of non-free
20:07<devrikx>you can just download the full firmware package from non-free...and drop the firmware into your current usb (if its a usb that uses an iso, open the iso and drop the firmware directory into root)
20:08<Arrowmaster>i dont do installs that often but never had much success trying that, the instructions were always shit
20:08<devrikx>Yea, I wont push it hard since they're already downloading
20:08<asklepian>I would really like to see debian upgrade to a wiki like archlinux has
20:08<devrikx>I'll write something up - and share it, I've done it and also found directions were not very good
20:08<Arrowmaster>we have a wiki
20:08<Arrowmaster>its just not as well edited as arch's
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20:09<asklepian>right
20:09<asklepian>also it blocks me all the time cause I'm on a VPN
20:09<asklepian>should be some way to authenticate
20:10-!-f10 [~flo@ip5b403660.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined #debian
20:10<asklepian>but with the age and development of debian, I just would've expected debian's wiki to look more like wikipedia than arch
20:10-!-guilherme [~guilherme@177.68.200.168] has joined #debian
20:10<devrikx>Though - now I have a problem (asking in debian-next since it's jessie related) but I'll ask here too. Has anyone had the 'A start job is running...lsb raising network interfaces' problem...where it just sits there...45 mins now...and never boots into linux?
20:10<abrotman>asklepian: it's a sore spot .. some agree, some don't
20:11<guilherme>how can I mount an dvd image?
20:11<abrotman>guilherme: an ISO?
20:12<asklepian>abrotman I don't like pouring salt on open wounds but arch has exploded in popularity almost entirely due to its wiki
20:12<asklepian>there's obvious demand for a usable wiki
20:12<guilherme>yes
20:13<asklepian>and since debian has so much more to offer, a solid wiki would make debian much more approachable
20:13<abrotman>asklepian: wiki.debian.org ?
20:13-!-Cue [~Zyn@3N2AABTUZ.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit []
20:14<asklepian>yup
20:14<abrotman>We have one, feel free to edit it
20:14<asklepian>compare it to https://wiki.archlinux.org/ for usability
20:14<asklepian>I don't know enough to edit it
20:15<asklepian>I guess that's my point
20:15<guilherme>I've tried mount -o loop image.iso /media/cdrom0/ and got an error
20:15<asklepian>people use the wiki to learn... arch's is easier to learn from
20:15<abrotman>guilherme: I asked you if it was an ISO
20:16<abrotman>guilherme: run the 'file' command on it
20:16<abrotman>asklepian: Pretty sure it's roughly the same wiki .. it's just the amount and organization
20:17<asklepian>well, it's enough of a difference for an entire distro to emerge almost entirely because of the difference
20:17-!-ecc [~ecc@0001b877.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
20:17<asklepian>arch doesn't really offer much in the way of a distro other than the amazing wiki
20:18<guilherme>ISO 9660 CD-ROM filesystem data
20:18<abrotman>guilherme: so what's the error?
20:19<abrotman>asklepian: I'm sure it's more than that. ISTR Gentoo also has a good wiki
20:19<asklepian>as I recall, Gentoo's is packed full of info but also difficult to use
20:20<guilherme>it is in portuguese, something like unknow error -1
20:20<asklepian>kids these days grow up on Wikipedia
20:20<asklepian>they want something that looks and acts like Wikipedia
20:21<blast007>!localized errors
20:21<dpkg>Rather than hoping that we recognise what has gone wrong from the error messages in your native language, please provide any error messages in English. You can do this by setting your locale to an English one (e.g. C) prior to running the command, e.g. «LC_ALL=C apt-get -f install»
20:21<asklepian>and, frankly, Wikipedia is darn successful because it's easy to use
20:21<asklepian>well organized, etc.
20:22-!-birch [~reca@146.95.79.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:23<asklepian>the entire Library of Congress is about 15 TB last I heard, which I can fit on a couple of HDD's
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20:25<asklepian>I'm sure Debian's wiki is less info but the point is the amount of info isn't important... usability is...
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20:28-!-mode/#debian [+l 669] by debhelper
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20:28<asklepian>ok, download's done
20:28<asklepian>time to see if the firmware is present...
20:28-!-oxenfrosch [~oxenfrosc@dsbg-4d0d24e9.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #debian
20:29<asklepian>yup
20:29-!-thunderrd [~thunderrd@116.58.233.167] has joined #debian
20:30<asklepian>missing b43/ucode29_mimo.fw b43-open/ucode29_mimo.fw
20:30<asklepian>...still
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20:33<abrotman>asklepian: Do oyu have a method to transport a file?
20:33<abrotman>or another computer?
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20:39<asklepian>abrotman
20:39<asklepian>yup
20:39<asklepian>I even have the files
20:39<asklepian>... I think
20:41<abrotman>So can you put them in placde?
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20:47<asklepian>ok, I got the drive to mount
20:47<asklepian>the .deb files are accessible
20:47-!-h_ [~h@84.127.72.1.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:47<asklepian>what do?
20:47<abrotman>asklepian: dpkg -i foo.deb
20:47-!-bluenemo_ [~bluenemo@p549FDF4F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #debian
20:48<asklepian>dpkg: not found
20:48<dpkg>asklepian: I don't know, could you explain it?
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20:51<abrotman>asklepian: are you still in the installer?
20:51<asklepian>yup
20:51<abrotman>ah, I thought you'd finished alread
20:51<abrotman>already
20:51<asklepian>no
20:52<asklepian>it's a netinstall
20:52<asklepian>...and I only have wifi
20:52<asklepian>so, I can't net...install...
20:52<abrotman>you can finish the installer without wifi, and do the firmware after
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20:52<asklepian>but
20:53<asklepian>how?
20:53<asklepian>if I have no internet
20:53<asklepian>... ?
20:54<abrotman>you don't need it
20:54<abrotman>Netinst is a misnomer .. it'll instlal just fine
20:54<abrotman>you'll have a bare system
20:54-!-bluenemo [~bluenemo@p5B3740AC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:54<asklepian>so just skip configuring the network?
20:54-!-pde [~pde@00012aa0.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:55<abrotman>sure
20:55<abrotman>we can do it later
20:56<asklepian>it keeps trying to configure the internet
20:56<asklepian>can I tell it to skip?
20:56<abrotman>yes
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21:06<asklepian>ok
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21:06<asklepian>wow
21:07<asklepian>I have a bare system
21:07<asklepian>I think I like this
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21:10<devrikx>lol, I never tried that. Interesting. I just forced myself to learn how to setup firmware in any image I wanted because I figured myself hopeless
21:10<devrikx>I learn something knew every day
21:11<devrikx>I'm referring to just skipping the wifi config and finishing the installer without net connection...I would have figured the netinstall would complain...but now that I think about it, it allows hd-media configuration and all...so it makes sense
21:11<Jobbe>brian: sad :/
21:11<Jobbe>Brigo *
21:12<devrikx>abrotman: thanks for sharing that
21:12<asklepian>ok
21:12-!-f10 [~flo@ip5b403660.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined #debian
21:12<asklepian>how do I just format my drive from the cli
21:12<asklepian>?
21:12<asklepian>I keep having issues with it recognizing the drive
21:12<asklepian>so I just want to format it in debian and let Mac worry about recognizing it
21:12<devrikx>that might be an fstab issue
21:13-!-scientes [~scientes@2601:8:8980:1b00::d181] has joined #debian
21:13<asklepian>it can see it just fine
21:13<devrikx>oh i see
21:13<asklepian>but the filesystem stuff is being pissy
21:13<devrikx>yes, so you want fat format (works in mac and linux)
21:13<devrikx>I can give you a link or just the command to use
21:13<asklepian>I did that already
21:13<asklepian>but it isn't working
21:13<devrikx>dd is the command
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21:14<asklepian>how do I I just reformat the drive from the debian cli
21:14<asklepian>?
21:14<devrikx>using dd
21:14<asklepian>exact syntax?
21:14<devrikx>sec
21:15<blast007>asklepian: do you mean how to write a new filesystem onto the drive, or how to completely zero the drive?
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21:15<asklepian>blast007 I guess just reformat it
21:15<devrikx>dd if=/dev/urandom of=[your disk... make sure you get it right] bs=512
21:16<asklepian>mkfs.ext4 ?
21:16<devrikx>dd will 0 the drive
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21:17<devrikx>If you're interested in trying out GPT, I typically use parted to change the disk label (to gpt), use it to create a partition, and use mkfs.ext4 to create a linux file system
21:17-!-LinuxMax [~isaac@75-136-19-249.static.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
21:17<devrikx>but will mac read ext4?
21:17<asklepian>maybe?
21:17<asklepian>let's find out
21:17-!-rbz [~rbz@cm-171-100-194-97.revip10.asianet.co.th] has joined #debian
21:17<devrikx>fat format is the only format garunteed to work with all systems (typically)
21:17<devrikx>I like that approach too though :) (let's find out)
21:18-!-guto [~guto@201.3.104.190] has joined #debian
21:19<devrikx>and I apologize, I gave an incorrect statement - this is the way to zero a drive...
21:19<devrikx>dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdX iflag=nocache oflag=direct bs=4096
21:20<asklepian>so, the answer is "no, mac will not read/write ext4"
21:20<asklepian>...assholes
21:20<devrikx>that use core utilities - the other uses urandom, and should work -> but I've never used it (borrowed it from a site)
21:20<blast007>that's wasting write cycles on the flash cells though
21:21<devrikx>lol good to know
21:21<devrikx>blast007 I'm not a pro with regards to that, please by all means correct me
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21:21<asklepian>blast007 I've got 256 GB of cells to waste
21:21<asklepian>so, other than time, that's fine
21:22-!-blitzed [~blitzed@cpe-75-80-19-50.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:22<asklepian>not that wear-leveling necessarily writes to ALL cells
21:22-!-baumas [~baumas@2601:2:5b00:8a3:7ec3:a1ff:fea2:76cc] has joined #debian
21:22<devrikx>oh I see, long way about saying that its using up read/write limits (eventual death of sectors?)
21:23<devrikx>or are you using an SSD?
21:24-!-daniel-s_ [~daniel-s@mu00053769.eng.monash.edu.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:24<asklepian>nope usb
21:24-!-daniel-s_ [~daniel-s@mu00053769.eng.monash.edu.au] has joined #debian
21:24<devrikx>oh, I see what you're saying now - you are reformatting the usb drive
21:24<asklepian>yup
21:24<devrikx>sorry, I was thinking a HDD
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21:26<asklepian>i think i'm only going to use hdd's for cold storage from now on
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21:28<asklepian>actually, I wonder if, in the near future, computer will only have a single read/write event to and from the HDD per poweron
21:29<asklepian>once RAM becomes cheap enough, you can load the entire contents of storage to RAM at boot
21:29<asklepian>and write at poweroff
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21:30<devrikx>I wouldn't personally make use of that until usb drives and sd chips could perform like a solid state
21:30<devrikx>and ofc that requires the normal everyday pc to have usb3+ or SATAe connectors
21:30<asklepian>I think bus improvments will get there easily
21:30<devrikx>but I'm sure the time will come :)
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21:31<devrikx>I've always thought so too, ever since the microSD chip came out
21:31<devrikx>I'm looking forward to it, to when I can take my chip on my keychain to any terminal and have it run at full speed
21:31<asklepian>right now, I think I've got 300GB of data that I want to be persistent
21:32<asklepian>that would be amazing
21:32<devrikx>:)
21:32<asklepian>terminal rental would become a major market
21:33-!-johnc [~smuxi@pool-96-234-220-84.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #debian
21:33<devrikx>yea, especially considering you wouldn't need to deal with maintainence of hardware yourself etc...be great for some users
21:33<asklepian>where you wear your 'pc' around your neck but can rent time on badass gaming workstations
21:33-!-Se-bash [~seba@host141.190-229-11.telecom.net.ar] has joined #debian
21:33<asklepian>especially, if all it has to do is 'run'
21:34<devrikx>lol yea that'd be nice. You get home, plug your chip in (no pun intended there), need to go somewhere on t he road you can plug it into your car, at the hotel, anywhere
21:34<devrikx>ofc, it'd be running debian :P
21:34<asklepian>I didn't think of that...
21:34<asklepian>naturally
21:34-!-h__ [~h@84.127.72.1.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:34<asklepian>using it in the car, etc.
21:35<devrikx>yea - that one i've been dying for
21:35<devrikx>I mean we already have the live OS
21:35-!-dvs [~colin@00012127.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
21:35<devrikx>just really need the solid state tech's and interfacing to improve
21:35<devrikx>these drives are big enough, that could work without cloud storage
21:35<devrikx>which would ease many many ppl's minds
21:36-!-trifolio6 [~h@84.127.72.1.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
21:36<asklepian>I don't really like the cloud
21:36<asklepian>it's nice from the perspective of long term storage and redundancy
21:36<devrikx>same, for some things yes - but all my dirty little secrets I like being able to keep 'secret'
21:36<asklepian>but I don't like someone else "possessing" my data
21:36-!-Asiajey [~Asiajey@42.113.205.78] has joined #debian
21:37<devrikx>not that they have to be dirty lol, just rather - as you said - keep them soley in my possession
21:37<asklepian>oh, they're dirty
21:37<asklepian>everyone knows about you devrikx
21:37<devrikx>:P
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21:38<asklepian>no, seriously, everybody knows...
21:38<asklepian>...everybody
21:39<asklepian>I'm kidding, of course
21:39<asklepian>...but seriously everybody knows
21:40<asklepian>ok, so, FAT32 is unrecognizable by debian
21:40<asklepian>what format should I use to xfer my tiny .deb fw files?
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21:42<abrotman>asklepian: sorry, got caught up in SPF records ..
21:42<abrotman>and fat32 does work in Debian
21:43<asklepian>hmmm
21:43<asklepian>let's try formatting it from debian
21:43<asklepian>mkfs.vfat -F32 ?
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21:44<abrotman>just mkfs.vfat
21:44<asklepian>mkfs.vfat: not found
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21:45<asklepian>?
21:45<abrotman>do you have any mkfs cvommands?
21:46<asklepian>I assume so
21:46<asklepian>it's just a bare install
21:46<asklepian>so maybe not?
21:46<abrotman>you sohuld
21:47<asklepian>any way to check
21:47<asklepian>because that command isn't working
21:47<abrotman>mkfs<tab><tab>
21:48-!-dvs [~colin@00012127.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:48<asklepian>ahh
21:49<asklepian>so, mkfs, mkfs.bfs, mkfs.bcramfs, mkfs.ext2, mkfs.ext3, mkfs.ext4, mkfs.ext4dev, mkfs.minix
21:49<abrotman>oh fun
21:49<asklepian>lol
21:49<abrotman>but it should still be able to mount vfat
21:49<devrikx>lols
21:49<abrotman>did otu format on Windows?
21:49<abrotman>you
21:49<asklepian>formatted on mac
21:49-!-bongo [~bongo@190.178.66.21] has joined #debian
21:49<asklepian>that's my other machine
21:49<asklepian>...with internet
21:49*abrotman notes osx can probably format ext2
21:50<asklepian>according to diskutil, it can't
21:50<abrotman>grr
21:50-!-fsteinel is now known as Guest584
21:50-!-Guest584 is now known as Guest585
21:50<devrikx>if you're mac has internet, you could download support for fat and install it :P
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21:50<abrotman>can you format it as fat16?
21:50<asklepian>that's why I was hoping to mkfs from debian and just let mac worry about reading
21:51<asklepian>I have all the Mac OS extended's, MSDOS FAT, and ExFAT
21:51<devrikx>no i mean download mkfs.vfat from deb repository
21:52<devrikx>then ssh or transfer via another usb - the package - and install it
21:52<abrotman>devrikx: how would he transfer it?
21:52<abrotman>no netowrk, no vfat support
21:52<asklepian>ahhh
21:52<asklepian>internet > mac > usb > debian
21:52<abrotman>how would you put it on the USb that the os doesn't understand?
21:52<asklepian>I am not a smart man
21:52<devrikx>mac has to be able to format fat
21:53<devrikx>fat16 or fat
21:53<asklepian>it says it can
21:53<devrikx>https://discussions.apple.com/thread/2355168?tstart=0
21:53<asklepian>but when I pop it into debian and mount nothing comes up
21:53<asklepian>I'll try one more time
21:54<devrikx>specifically this part is interesting in th at link:
21:54<abrotman>pops up?
21:54<devrikx>Another easy solution. In Disk Utility, go to the partition tab and click "options." Choose the "Master Boot Record" instead of the default Apple-based choices. Once I found this, I can, so far, easily format my flash drives with FAT32 on the Mac and have them readable on a PC.
21:54-!-ralph [~ralph@00012c7d.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
21:54<devrikx>I have to jet though - I hope I was able to help in some way
21:54-!-bluenemo_ [~bluenemo@p549FDF4F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:54<devrikx>gl! :)
21:55<devrikx>(ill be back around, but I think you'll get it :) )
21:57<devrikx>another option, thinking on that (lol still havent left) - idk if it'd work...but if your pc see's the disk in fdisk -l, but will not mount it...you could try installing grub to it
21:57-!-Guest585 [~fsteinel@00017be8.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:57<devrikx>that might make it 'usable'....and I have an EFI usb drive that takes upwards of 2 mins to get recognized by deiban and mounted
21:58<asklepian>mount -t vfat /dev/sdb /mnt tells me bogus numerb of reserved sectors
21:58<asklepian>is it because it's a 256GB drive?
21:59<devrikx>so you installed the package?
21:59<devrikx>yes I believe mac doesn't use a typical mbr partition table
21:59<devrikx>you'll want to follow the exerpt from above, from that link
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22:00<devrikx>Ah, lady finally giving me the 'lets go' look -> I must attend o.o
22:01<asklepian>attend
22:01<asklepian>ATTEND
22:01<asklepian>for those of us who cannot
22:01<asklepian>ATTENNNDDDD
22:01<asklepian>good morrow
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22:02<asklepian>ok
22:02<asklepian>dpkg -i firmware-b43-installer is telling me unsupported devices found
22:02*dpkg removes a lung from asklepian and replaces it with firmware-b43-installer is telling me unsupported devices found
22:03<asklepian>thanks dpkg
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22:04<asklepian>14e4:4331
22:04<asklepian>what package should I be using?
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22:07<asklepian>which debian package corresponds to the 14e4:4331 support listed here: http://linuxwireless.org/en/users/Drivers/b43/ ?
22:10<LtL>judd: pciid 14e4:4331
22:10<judd>[14e4:4331] is 'BCM4331 802.11a/b/g/n' from 'Broadcom Corporation' with kernel module 'bcma' in wheezy. See also http://kmuto.jp/debian/hcl/index.rhtmlx?check=1&lspci=14e4:4331
22:10<asklepian>ok, why is firmware-b43-installer telling me that 14e4:4331 is unsupported if it's listed here: https://wireless.wiki.kernel.org/en/users/Drivers/b43#Supported_devices ?
22:10<asklepian>so, I need bcma?
22:11-!-Jane-PC [~Jane@APuteaux-652-1-97-44.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:11<LtL>asklepian: try modprobe bcma
22:11<LtL>asklepian: yes you do
22:12<asklepian>ok, so I need bcma
22:12<asklepian>also, how to I edit the default lines at boot in grub?
22:12<LtL>asklepian: yes, looks like it
22:13<abrotman>asklepian: /etc/default/grub IIRC
22:13<LtL>asklepian: press 'e' at the grub screen, then edit accordingly
22:14-!-starcoder [~superdug@178-175-139-142.ip.as43289.net] has joined #debian
22:14<LtL>err, what abrotman said
22:14<asklepian>nah, I editted the file
22:14<asklepian>I didn't want to keep typing e at boot
22:14<LtL>nod
22:14<asklepian>ok
22:14<asklepian>so, bcma
22:14<asklepian>how do I get that?
22:15<LtL>asklepian: you can edit /boot/grub/grub.cfg but its` not recommended
22:15<asklepian>nah, I nano'd /etc/default/grub and ran update-grub
22:15-!-sidmo [~sidmo@p5489DC0B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #debian
22:15<asklepian>we're goo there
22:15<asklepian>good*
22:16<asklepian>how do I get bcma without internet
22:16<asklepian>right now I'm just trying to get my wifi working using a usb drive between a bare debian install and a mac with internet
22:17-!-vicamo [~vicamo@175.41.48.77] has joined #debian
22:17<asklepian>and, also, I've never needed to do anything other than firmware-b43-installer before
22:17*abrotman didn't know about bmca either
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22:19<asklepian>and on top of that, it's listed by https://wireless.wiki.kernel.org/en/users/Drivers/b43#Supported_devices as supported
22:19<asklepian>which is inconsistent with what firmware-b43-installer is telling me
22:20-!-devrikx [~rik@cpe-69-207-214-213.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:21<LtL>asklepian: you might want the b43-cutter package
22:22<asklepian>LtL I installed that already
22:22<asklepian>worked fine
22:22<asklepian>when I went forware with firmware-b43-installer, it told me that 14e4:4331 is unsupported
22:22<asklepian>which is clearly not the case
22:22-!-sidmo_ [~sidmo@p5489CDBB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:22<LtL>asklepian: any broadcom modules listed by lsmod
22:23-!-thunderrd [~thunderrd@116.58.233.167] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
22:23<asklepian>lsmod | grep broadcom returns nothing
22:25-!-cozmo [~nnscript@AMontsouris-654-1-104-167.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:25<LtL>asklepian: i have bcma loaded, grepping broadcom won't get you anything iirc
22:25<abrotman>(he's using Jessie, right?)
22:26-!-aranax [~aranax@209.140.56.190.static.intelnet.net.gt] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:26<LtL>asklepian: i also have the b43 module loaded on this ols laptop
22:26-!-johnnyQ [~johnny@cpe-72-179-133-46.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #debian
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22:27<asklepian>ok
22:27<asklepian>now it's working
22:27<asklepian>it's trying to wget
22:27<asklepian>which obviously isn't going to work
22:27-!-klatin__ [~klatin@p54AB43DD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #debian
22:28<LtL>asklepian: thats what it needs to do, what exactly its gets i can't say
22:28<asklepian>I've downloaded the correct file, which is .bz2
22:28-!-anemus [~anemus@public-gprs516339.centertel.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:28<asklepian>how do I point the firmware-b43-installer to that instead of the wget?
22:29<LtL>asklepian: a wired connection would be helpful here
22:30<asklepian>not possible
22:30<asklepian>I know you're showing up late to the party but I've been over that a million times
22:30-!-Chanku [~Chanku@c-76-123-225-227.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:30<asklepian>software should be flexible where hardware is not
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22:30<asklepian>how do I expand the bz2 file?
22:31<sney>is it .tar.bz2? tar xf filename.tar.bz2
22:32<asklepian>ok
22:32<asklepian>so here's what we've got
22:32<asklepian>I've installed b43-fwcutter
22:32<asklepian>I've attempted to run firmware-b43-installer
22:33<asklepian>b43-installer attempts a wget, which is not possible because we're trying to install wifi firmware
22:33<sney>the firmeware files in the tar.bz2 file get installed to /lib/firmware. if you get the tar archive you can just put the files in /lib/firmware and reboot
22:33<asklepian>the file it requests is broadcom-wl-5.100.138.tar.bz2
22:34<LtL>asklepian: package linux-firmware-nonfree may be needed too
22:34<asklepian>I've downloaded that and copied it to the working directory but have to point firmware-b43-installer to that file instead of to the wget
22:34<sney>asklepian: no you don't. just untar it and put the firmware files where they need to go. the b43-installer package is just for convenience when you _do_ have a network connection.
22:35<asklepian>sney good to know
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22:35<asklepian>1 point to bring up here: I'm getting a permission error when attempting to tar xf the bz2 file with root
22:36<sney>what permission error, where are you trying to untar it, etc
22:36-!-slbtc [~slbtc@162.253.128.34] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:36<asklepian>cannot change ownership uid to 1000 gid to 100
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22:38<Tyler>Need to install Debian as UEFI since Ill be using OVMF with KVM. Is a UEFI install going to be part of the Installer with Jessie?
22:38<sney>asklepian: do it as a normal user or with --no-same-owner
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22:38<sney>Tyler: uefi has been in the installer since wheezy at least, though support is always improving
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22:40<asklepian>ok, it seems it extracted fine
22:41<asklepian>but tar just wanted to change permissions (for some reason)
22:41<asklepian>now I just copy and reinstall?
22:41<asklepian>...to which directory?
22:41<sney>when you use tar as root, it wants to keep the same permissions the file was created with
22:41<Tyler>sney now that is good news. Been using gpart etc. For w/e reason I have not seen the UEFI stuff in the installer. Where in the menus would I find that ?
22:41<sney>firmware files go in /lib/firmware
22:42-!-xjuan [~xjuan@host253.200-43-27.telecom.net.ar] has joined #debian
22:42<asklepian>so, copy the entire directory recursively?
22:42<sney>Tyler: it's transparent, chosen by how the hardware boots the installer
22:43<sney>asklepian: yep, unless you know exactly which files you need
22:43<asklepian>rebooting
22:43<Tyler>just use a EFI USB and turn off secureboot and legacy mode?
22:43-!-smulverine [~smulverin@1-36-229-024.static.netvigator.com] has joined #debian
22:43<sney>Tyler: yep. shouldn't even need to turn off legacy most of the time, just make sure you choose the right one in the boot menu. (mine offers both)
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22:44<asklepian>ok, done
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22:44<asklepian>now how do I get internet
22:44<asklepian>?
22:45<abrotman>reboot, ensure the module loads, verify there's a network interface listed
22:45<sney>make sure your wifi driver is loaded (check dmesg for lines about bmca/b43 and the firmware), then follow this https://wiki.debian.org/WiFi/HowToUse
22:45<abrotman>oh
22:45<abrotman>already di the rebooty
22:46-!-Shogun [~quassel@66-169-119-124.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has joined #debian
22:46<Tyler>asklepian, well paying our bill is a good idea and maybe a like wicd while your at it =)
22:47<asklepian>I know I just forgot the utilities for checking kernel modules and network interfaces
22:47-!-warhead [~idontknow@46.166.188.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:49<asklepian>so, dmesg | grep b43 indicates Broadcom 4331 found
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22:50<asklepian>ok, it didn't work
22:51<Tyler>asklepian, what are you trying to do?
22:51<asklepian>going back to the tar xf of the bz2 that firmware-b43-installer was looking for, I think it builds the firmware from the files it downloads
22:51<asklepian>Tyler install wifi drivers so I can get access to the internet
22:51-!-Wulf4 [~Wulf@2a02:2028:df:7d41:52f:fa66:e112:c736] has joined #debian
22:52<asklepian>firmware-b43-installer aborts at a wget
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22:52<Tyler>hmm that is not a free driver iirc?
22:52<abrotman>if it's found, what makes you think it didn't work?
22:52<asklepian>because it (ironically) has to download files to complete the installation of the wifi firmware
22:53-!-pepe_luis [~quassel@201-213-95-39.net.prima.net.ar] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:53<abrotman>is the device listed in /sbin/ifconfig -a ?
22:53<abrotman>eh .. wait, that won't be there
22:53<asklepian>abrotman b43-phy- ERROR: You must go to http://wireless.kernel.org/en/users/Drivers/b43#devicefirmware and download the correct firmware for this driver version. Please carefully read all the instructions on this website.
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22:54<abrotman>asklepian: neat .. so we're back to the FAT problem?
22:54<asklepian>my device is a broadcom 14e4:4331 device
22:54<asklepian>not a FAT problem
22:54<asklepian>the file transferred nicely
22:54<abrotman>oh, so you just need the actual firmware files ?
22:54<asklepian>so, we have the approriate files
22:54<asklepian>yes
22:55<asklepian>I believe that firmware-b43-installer builds the fw files from the files it wget's
22:55<abrotman>oh, that's right .. we found the secret osx fat instructions
22:55<asklepian>firmware-b43-installer can't wget the files it needs but I transferred them manually
22:55<asklepian>I just need a way to point firmware-b43-installer to the local file instead of the one it wants to wget
22:56<Tyler>did you try sudo modprobe -rf b43 && sudo modprobe b43 ?
22:56<Tyler>what do you see with lsmod
22:56-!-bugbunny [~alex-b@58.46.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has joined #debian
22:56<abrotman>the wireless wiki has the instructoins if you dig around a bit
22:57<asklepian>lsmod | grep b43 returns several items
22:57-!-scientes [~scientes@2601:8:8980:1b00::d181] has joined #debian
22:58<asklepian>b43, mac80211, cfg80211, ssb, rng_core, pcmia, bcma, mmc_core
22:58<Tyler>and modinfo b43 ?
22:58<asklepian>nope
22:58<asklepian>ohhh
22:58<asklepian>1 sec
22:59<asklepian>several item
22:59<asklepian>I can't list them all
22:59<asklepian>ucodexx.fw
22:59<asklepian>where xx = some number
23:00<asklepian>the one request at install earlier was ucode29.fw
23:00<asklepian>which is not listed
23:01<asklepian>so, how should I be able to turn on the wifi card, assuming the firmware was installed properly
23:01<asklepian>?
23:02<asklepian>ip link set wlan0 up ?
23:05<asklepian>it's telling me wlan0 doesn't support scanning: network is down
23:05<asklepian>how to I change to up?
23:05<asklepian>ip link set wlan0 up ?
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23:06<Tyler>It really could be anything. Try to keep it KISS and know in detail what you are doing. There are a zillion ppl on the net that have issues with that card it looks like though.
23:06<Tyler>sudo ifconfig wlan0 up
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23:08<asklepian>that command causes bcma to look for b43/ucode29_mimo.fw
23:08<asklepian>which was not in the broadcom file from earlier
23:08<asklepian>I'm really quite certain that I was right to begin with
23:09<asklepian>firmware-b43-installer needs to build the firmware from the downloaded file
23:09<Tyler>I dont have non-free in my repos but just maybe maybe if your lucky you might fight the drivers you need there?
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23:09<asklepian>so, to ask the question I asked an hour ago, "How do I point firmware-b43-installer to the local file instead of wget"?!?
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23:10<asklepian>I've downloaded that and copied it to the working directory but have to point firmware-b43-installer to that file instead of to the wget
23:10<asklepian>[22:34:50] <sney> asklepian: no you don't. just untar it and put the firmware files where they need to go. the b43-installer package is just for convenience when you _do_ have a network connection.
23:10<Tyler>ah wait your installer is pulling stuff off the net? You prolly need to install curl
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23:11<asklepian>no
23:11<asklepian>I don't need curl
23:11<asklepian>it's a script that invokes wget
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23:11<asklepian>all it wants is a file
23:11<asklepian>I have the file
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23:11<asklepian>how do I tell it to use the file I have instead of trying to curl/wget/download anything?
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23:12<Tyler>just change the script and make a ln -s if you have the file I would think
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23:12<asklepian>the script is run from within a .deb file
23:13<asklepian>does that change in the instructions you just gave me
23:13<asklepian>?
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23:14<Tyler>the magic of blobs ... dont know what to tell ya if you dont have the source. 99.9% of the time though if you read you will find what you are looking for.
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23:15<asklepian>this is like taking a powerdrill to my skull
23:15<asklepian>the installer wgets something that's sitting right next to it in the same directory
23:15<Tyler>lol, that makes like a lot more easy. You seen the movie Pi right+
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23:15<Tyler>gn and good luck.
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23:16<asklepian>Tyler I saw that movie years ago
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23:16<asklepian>how do I change a .deb file to act on a local file instead of trying to wget the same file from the internet?
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---Logclosed Wed Mar 11 00:00:40 2015