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#debian IRC Logs for 2015-04-24

---Logopened Fri Apr 24 00:00:42 2015
---Daychanged Fri Apr 24 2015
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00:10<dingo>somiaj: Ir0nsh007er now I get this: The following packages have been kept back: bitmask clamav clamav-freshclam leap-mail libclamav6 libzmq3
00:11<dingo>why dont it upgrade it
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00:12<dingo>i solved the mono problem by boot my original .img and do update & upgrade
00:13<dingo>somiaj: Ir0nsh007er
00:13<Ir0nsh007er>apt-get autoclean ?
00:14<dingo>shall i run it?
00:16<Ir0nsh007er>apt-get dist-upgrade
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00:34<dingo>thanks samuel , solved it!
00:34<dingo>& Ir0nsh007er
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00:38<bdog7>is jessie comming?
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00:49<draxdeveloper>i am on jessie now, so i am using sid???????????
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00:51<Apollo>what? no...
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00:55<Ir0nsh007er>$ cat /etc/debian_version
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03:21<jbouchj>hi I'm having trouble getting debian to boot up on my mac it says it cannot find the kernel
03:22<jbouchj>anyone know how to fix this?
03:22<jbouchj>in the grub menu
03:24<jm_>what does grub.cfg have for the kernel?
03:24<jm_>(it's "linux ...." line)
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03:26<jbouchj>it says there isn't one... even when i managed to get the install menu up using refind it just boots and restarts in a loop
03:27<jm_>what exactly is the error message?
03:27<jm_>put your gurb.cfg on pastebin (/msg dpkg paste)
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03:28<Jbouchj_>One moment just swapping out computers
03:30<Jbouchj_>When in the grub it says "you need to load the kernel first"
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03:31<jm_>need to see grub.cfg then
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03:32<Jbouchj_>Can I do this from the grub?
03:32<jm_>uhh no you will need a web browser to paste/upload it
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03:37<Jbouchj_>Ok would it have something to do with having the dvd version loaded to a usb flash drive?
03:38<jm_>debian dvd install or?
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04:37<stemid>hi I had connected some debian 7 clients to active directory with sssd and it seemed to work well for my user but when another user tries to login they get permission denied and auth.log first said Cannot resolve network address for KDC in requested realm. my dns works fine and I have specified KDCs in krb5.conf so I tried dns_lookup_realm = false and then the error switched to Cannot find KDC for requested
04:37<stemid> realm
04:38<stemid>again, all my KDCs are specified in realms section of krb5.conf and dns works fine. my ad user can login.
04:38<stemid>very strange
04:40<stemid>ugh, I created a new test user in AD and it could login.
04:40<stemid>must be something with my co-workers user that is wrong.
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04:44<dewp>hellohello. i am about to create a frankendebian for testing purposes. i want to upgrade mono and added the mono repositories. after apt-get upgrade the upgrades are held back. should i uninstall the held back packages first?
04:44<dewp>(dist-upgrade did not work as well)
04:45<jm_>which mono repositories?
04:45<musca>apt-get upgrade will never introduce new packages
04:45<jm_>right, we don't support those but '/msg dpkg held back' to understand why you get the message
04:46<somiaj>dewp: we dont' support frakendebian. But read the man page for apt-get, espically the difference between 'upgrade' and 'dist-upgrade'
04:46<somiaj>oh dist-upgrade failed, nevermind. Sounds like the repo isn't that compdable.
04:46<jm_>adding problematic packages to your command line would allow apt to progress ...
04:47<dewp>i know. but i wanted to be sure that it is "allowed". i dont feel right by forcing installs that way ;-)
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04:48<somiaj>dewp: you start mixing broken or incompadable packages you may have to force it a bit.
04:48<jm_>allowed? sure, just don't ask us for help if something breaks
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04:49<musca>dewp: ok, why do you feel like needing mono from that repo?
04:49<dewp>i wont - just being curious. its no production "machine". having a day off and want to tinker around a bit
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04:50<dewp>musca, because i'm having issues with the windows.forms package (it feels like this) but it could also be libgdiplus. not sure. something isnt loaded properly
04:50<jm_>maybe the trains will be able to go faster :)
04:50<dewp>yeeeessss... maybe!
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04:50<dewp>if not - no problem
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04:50<dewp>but i'd like to test. to be honest: once its running it becomes boring
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04:55<somiaj>dewp: luckly it isn't hard to break debian with thrid party repos if you want to have some 'fun', but don't expect any help to fix it. (:
04:55<dewp>haha, don't worry :)
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05:24<dewp>ha! it's working!
05:24<dewp>can't believei t
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05:24<dewp>no SDL error, very acceptable fps
05:24<dewp>and no mono error
05:24<dewp>that feels kind of weird!
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06:35<EmleyMoor>I'm trying to enable framebuffer on my desktop box - it has an NVidia card. How best do I do it?
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06:37<EmleyMoor>Erk, jessie expected tomorrow?
06:39<jm_>25. 4. yes
06:39<towo^work>EmleyMoor, GRUB_GFXPAYLOAD_LINUX=widthxhight in /etc/default/grub
06:39<EmleyMoor>towo^work: Tried. Ineffective
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06:40<towo^work>no, is not ineffectife
06:40<towo^work>you have to do update-grub after such setting
06:41<EmleyMoor>I did. Ineffective.
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06:41<towo^work>EmleyMoor, it works on 4 boxes here
06:41<jm_>do you use nvidia driver?
06:41<towo^work>why it shouldn't do for you
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06:41<EmleyMoor>jm_: Yen
06:41<jm_>EmleyMoor: then it might have blacklisted the nouveau driver
06:42<EmleyMoor>There was a reason why I stopped using nouveau but it no longer applies...
06:42<towo^work>for gfxpayload there is no nouveau needed
06:43<jm_>you may be right, that's just vga= so it should work even with nvidia driver loaded
06:43<EmleyMoor>towo^work: The question is, then, why has it not worked?
06:43<jm_>check if it passes anything to kernel (/proc/cmdline)
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06:44<EmleyMoor>BOOT_IMAGE=/vmlinuz-3.2.0-4-amd64 root=/dev/mapper/vg0-root ro quiet
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06:45<jm_>and this was after you enabled GRUB_GFXPAYLOAD_LINUX=widthxhight, ran update-grub and rebooted?
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06:47<jm_>would be interesting to see what it shows on systems where it works
06:47<EmleyMoor>BOOT_IMAGE=/vmlinuz-3.2.0-4-amd64 root=/dev/mapper/fp00-root ro quiet (my laptop, fglrx rather than nvidia, working there)
06:47<jm_>so in other words it doesn't show up there
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07:03<scott__>need help getting message saying error:attempt to read or write outside of disk 'hd0' entering rescue mode grub rescue on my Intel Desktop Board D865GLC but not on my hp nc6220 or my ECS GeForce6100PM-M2 and it a usb i want to boot that i made using multisystem
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07:04<jm_>does it tell you sector number?
07:04<jm_>plus why ask here if you used something called multisystem?
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07:07<scott__>because it a Linux program and it is todo with grub and it can handle lots off OS on it like debian
07:08<jm_>it's not supported here if it's not packaged by debian
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07:09<jm_>but really, see if you get LBA number for out of range request adn compare it to device max and then take it up with multisystem developers I guess
07:10<scott__>ok kl
07:10<jm_>you can find device parameters in /proc/partitions
07:10<scott__>for the help
07:10<jm_>no problem
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07:11<ZIPY^>is it true jessie will become stable this weekend?
07:12<musca>that's the plan
07:12<jm_>should be
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07:12<ZIPY^>ok thanks, that are some good news ;)
07:13<ZIPY^>time to create some backups I guess =)
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08:22<EmleyMoor>Been trying to enable framebuffer on my desktop machine, which has an NVidia card. Have added the GRUB_GFXPAYLOAD_LINUX=... option to /etc/default/grub, done update-grub, rebooted. No effect.
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08:23<EmleyMoor>Ah, hold on - just spotted an error
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08:30<EmleyMoor>Wow - it's even cut about 2 minutes off boot time!
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08:47<imMute>I asked this yesterday, but I didn't get an answer, and hopefully more people will see it today:
08:47<imMute>does anyone happen to know how to slip a preseed.cfg into the netinst iso when putting the iso onto a USB stick? I tried all three methods of creating the stick, and none worked - they either result in a R/O filesystem, or when it boots, iso-scan doesn't like the ISO for whatever reason.
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08:59<XTF>Hi. What's the recommended caching nameserver for use with SpamAssassin?
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09:04<TobiX>XTF: You need a caching nameserver with SpamAsssassin?
09:05<XTF>TobiX: Yes
09:06<petn-randall>XTF: bind9. You'll need your own resolver so you don't hit DNS lookup limits that many DNSBLs have.
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09:06<XTF>petn-randall: Why not for example dnsmasq?
09:06<petn-randall>TobiX: Because everyone is using their upstream DNS server to do DNSBL lookup, they've always hit the lookup limit and are returning false negatives.
09:06<TobiX>XTF: You can probably use any that you're comfortable with, dnsmasq, unbound, pdnsd, bind, etc.
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09:07<petn-randall>XTF: dnsmasq is a DNS *forwarder*, which is a make or break with DNSBL.
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09:08<XTF>petn-randall: Ah, right, it can't do it's own lookups directly..
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09:08<petn-randall>XTF: Right. It only makes a difference when you're using DNSBL though, which I'm assuming because spamassassin is quite limited without.
09:09<petn-randall>XTF: Btw, you might want to use Amavis instead of spamassassin alone.
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09:10<XTF>What's the advantage of Amavis?
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09:39<petn-randall>XTF: It does more than SA, and also makes it easier to configure SA, check out their website.
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09:54<ThomasKeller>I am using preseeding to instal jessie, and I want to install sysvinit as PID 1
09:54<ThomasKeller>I read, that I need to use:
09:54<ThomasKeller>d-i preseed/late_command string in-target apt-get install -y sysvinit-core
09:54<ThomasKeller>my preseed script already has "d-i pkgsel/include string"
09:54<ThomasKeller>why can I not use "d-i pkgsel/include string sysvinit-core"
09:55<ThomasKeller>why do I need late-command ?
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09:55<XTF>URIBL lookups are still blocked.. do I need to restart something?
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10:04<pujan14>ThomasKeller: I am not sure if this is the right place to talk about this maybe debian-boot is better place. Also from my limited experience I know that late_command is executed after main os is installed and it's the last part of d-i. Maybe due to some internal issue it is required that sysinit-core be installed after some other package BUT that packages is not dependency of sysinit. I am not sure if this even makes sense but this came to my mind so...
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10:08<finetundra_>does anyone know if Jessie is confirmed to be released tomorrow
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10:10<SynrG>it's never known for certain until it actually happens. we have not heard anything to the contrary.
10:11<SynrG>it's still "release when ready" (where "ready" is determined by the RT). they have the final word.
10:11<SynrG>so yes, our latest info is it happens tomorrow.
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10:15<pujan14>SynrG: is there any specific time when it usually happens (if it happens) like 00:00 at UMT or something like that?
10:16<SynrG>again, our information is only as good as the information already made public by the RT
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10:16<dpkg>Debian 8 "Jessie" will release on 2015-04-25; ask me about <wheezy->jessie>. There's plenty of bugs still to squash so ask me about <how-can-i-help>, <jessie freeze>, <jessie pool 1>. See
10:17<SynrG>meaning it starts sometime on that day and finishes whenever all the work is done
10:17<SynrG>contingent on the amount of work to be done and availability of people to do it
10:17<SynrG>and of course constraints of the machines that execute it
10:18<pujan14>ok, thanks
10:18<SynrG>add to that, propagation delays due to archive pulse updates ... and enormous strain on the archive network due to everyone upgrading early ...
10:18<SynrG>and it's pretty nuts to talk about it happening on a particular minute ;)
10:18<SynrG>let alone a particular hour
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10:20<SynrG>pujan14: to sum up: it's a "big" job. get out the popcorn and relax.
10:20<Xylon>Can we drink beer?
10:20<pujan14>ya I get it, now a days companies like apple release things at specific time so was curious :P
10:20<SynrG>whatever floats your boat
10:20<SynrG>or your kidneys ;)
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10:22<yoh>I remember seeing utility which given a logfile, converts timestamps into relative increments to the ones in previous line... what is it? ;) (before I hack up a script of my own)
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10:28<nmschulte>yoh: awk, date, subtraction, bam!
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10:28<nmschulte>(bam is not a bin)
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10:30<yoh>I am not an awk expert... ;)
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11:04<draxdeveloper>hi, tomorrow jessie will go to stable or to testing?
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11:05<planetmaker>jessie is testing for ages
11:05<planetmaker>so either it stays that or it becomes stable
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11:05<jathan>Yes tomorrow wil be release as the new Debian stable version
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11:15<draxdeveloper>hum... So what will be the new testing?
11:18<draxdeveloper>waiting for it :) there somewere where we can now what is coming with stretch? Also, i am with the hope that the update come with a update to a bug with radeon vga drivers
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11:26<SynrG>somewhen some release goals will be set for draxdeveloper. that won't be a comprehensive list of what is coming, but should cover the major bits of work to be done.
11:26<SynrG>wow, how badly did i mangle that?
11:26<SynrG>somewhen some release goals will be set for jessie, draxdeveloper. that won't be a comprehensive list of what is coming, but should cover the major bits of work to be done.
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11:27<SynrG>oh yay, and i said jessie, not stretch :)
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11:28<SynrG>i.e. will get updated
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11:43<finetundra>what are some good web browsers?
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11:49<retrospectacus>finetundra: what kind of features are you looking for?
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11:50<retrospectacus>I use chromium but it uses a lot of RAM... which is fine because I have lots
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11:51<finetundra>retrospectus, something that uses little in terms of resources but also has a decent graphical front-end
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11:53<retrospectacus>try midori
11:54<finetundra>alright, any other suggestions or should I leave it at that?
11:55<retrospectacus>maybe someone else will suggest one.
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12:29-!-Yst is "Yst" on #nottor #tor #oftc #moocows #android-os #notnotnotnotnottor #guardianproject @#Libreboot #debian @# @#Replicant #debian-offtopic #freedombox
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12:40<finetundra>how do you mark a file as executable?
12:41<petn-randall>finetundra: Google didn't show any results on that one?
12:41<trpapp>sudo chmod +x <filename>
12:42<petn-randall>trpapp: You don't need sudo for that.
12:42<finetundra>thank you trpapp
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12:44<finetundra>what is this line syntax error that shows up?
12:44<petn-randall>trpapp: No need to /msg me, see /topic.
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12:45<petn-randall>which one, finetundra?
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12:45<trpapp>Sorry petn. Never got used to IRC commands
12:45<finetundra>line 1: `!<arch>']
12:46<draxdeveloper>hey, how can i remove a directory in shell?
12:46<Ir0nsh007er>rm -d /folder
12:46<draxdeveloper>ok, ty
12:47<trpapp>Petn. How do you whisper?
12:47<trpapp>Like you did
12:47<petn-randall>whisper? No idea what you're talking about.
12:47<musca>erm, folder?
12:47<trpapp>Haha sorry it's wow terminology
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12:48<draxdeveloper>it's saying that the floder it's not empty
12:48<trpapp>Try the -r command before folder name
12:48<Ir0nsh007er>sudo rm -d -r /fdsdfsds
12:49<draxdeveloper>its worked
12:49<trpapp>Yeah like that
12:49<musca>draxdeveloper: you are just learning the most dangerous command
12:49<petn-randall>draxdeveloper: This are basics that you can simply google. Or look up in the man page of rm.
12:49<Ir0nsh007er>lol musca
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12:50<trpapp>I just got that too haha musca
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12:51<ash__>who else can't wait for tomorrow? =)
12:51<Ir0nsh007er>lol im already in jessie about 4 mouth :P
12:52<ash__>sure, me too on the desktop, but looking forward to deploy it on my servers.
12:52<trpapp>Sid or testing iron?
12:52<Ir0nsh007er>Sid are bad :P
12:52<trpapp>Same :)
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12:54<draxdeveloper>i will stay on testing, so i will say goodbye to jessie tomorrow
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12:55<trpapp><3 rolling releases
12:55<ash__>only on the desktop @draxdeveloper?
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12:55<somiaj>draxdeveloper: I would suggest against that. Put jessie in your sources.list (over testing)
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12:56<somiaj>draxdeveloper: The first few weeks after a new release testing is a wild ride. I would suggest waiting a month or so before upgrading to the new testing.
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12:56<trpapp>Mm that makes sense
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12:59<somiaj>since this is debian stable support channel, I also suggest running jessie and staying wiht a stable system. use backports, or wait to upgrade until there is a need over sns syndrom. But if you really want to keep testing testing, you should be in #debian-next. And again unless you really like to fix broken things, I would wait until things settle down a bit and not upgrade right after the release
13:00<Ir0nsh007er>trpapp: thanks somiaj for this info
13:00<trpapp>Yeah thanks somiaj
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13:03<ash__>can someone point me to a website or shortly elaborate the impact for me as an end user on the desktop and as a server admin regarding the differences of systemd/init please?
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13:04<trpapp>Oh boy
13:04<somiaj>ash__: no real website and any you find will be very polarized (people either like or hate systemd and most pages are why it sucks)
13:04<somiaj>ash__: as a desktop user there will probabaly be little difference and my experience is I didn't notice a change to systemd (Which is the best I could ask for)
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13:05<somiaj>ash__: also since systemd has sysv compadability scripts, even old methods work '/etc/init.d/service start' works for both systemd and sysv
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13:05<ash__>somiaj: ah okay, thanks. what is the new way of starting services with systemd then?
13:05<somiaj>ash__: as an admin, it is another story. systemd requires learning how to manage its services over the traditional sysv method. So as an admin there are things to learn. Some like the new features systemd gives admins, others thing it hides to much behind binary logs and confusion and want to stick with sysv.
13:06<ash__>mh I see
13:06<somiaj>ash__: /etc/init.d/service start/stop works fine with systemd.
13:07<somiaj>ash__: systemd preferes to use its control tool, systemctl
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13:07<somiaj>ash__: you can choose either with jessie, and both are supported. systed may be installed by default (or upgraded by default) unless you take an extra step during the upgrade. All of this is in the release notes.
13:08-!-mode/#debian [+l 756] by debhelper
13:08<ash__>somiaj: thanks for the elaboration. I will check the release notes. I'm curious: is there an approximate time for the release tomorrow?
13:09<somiaj>ash__: the release is not happening tomorrow.
13:09<somiaj>ash__: will have an offical annoucment, and as of last night there were still 75ish rc bugs
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13:09<somiaj>I expect an offical annoucment on (which will also be put in the /topic here) about a week before the release (maybe as little as a few days before)
13:10<somiaj>debian makes releases when it is ready, this means 0 rc bugs. They are being a bit more agressive about removing packages with rc bugs that are not being worked on, but there is no hard date (that I know of).
13:11<trpapp>somiaj: the debates over systemd and init are about where services lie as far as a layer or abstraction right? Like whether systemd is just taking over way too much in regards to abstraction. I think.
13:11<ash__>somiaj: are you sure regarding the release date?
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13:13<somiaj>trpapp: there was a good email in the debian archive discussing this and explaining the drawbacks and advantages of them all. I tend to side on the systemd haters, but I don't need any of its fancy features. Overall sysv is reaching its limitations in lots of areas and systemd does improve on those (the main complint is all the other stuff it adds outside of the init system)
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13:14<somiaj>trpapp: but go look though the mail archives. This topic has been discussed passionatally by so many for so long most at #debian are just sick and tired of the debate. The conclusion in debian is both are supported. You now hvae more freedom than ever to choose which one you want. (except if you run gnome, then you should probabaly use systemd)
13:14<trpapp>somiaj: ah thanks!
13:15<somiaj>though debin even created a package systemd-shim to include additional features of systemd allowing one to still use sysvinit
13:15<trpapp>Oh now you have me googleing haha
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13:16<somiaj>ash__: yes I know the 25th date has been thrown around the mailing lists. I think this was a goal but it wasn't reached. I highly doubt they will release it with 77 rc bugs and without an offical annocument outside of the mailing lists (on news feed)
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13:17<trpapp>Yup they release when ready not when they think it should be ready
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13:18<somiaj>ash__: trpapp: -- lots of reading and the conclusion of the debate of why debian is including systemd
13:18<ash__>somiaj: thanks. well, I remember the last two release happened without announcements anywhere outside the "inner circle" afaik, so I thought it'll be like this this time as well. but what you write makes sense; that's a lot of bugs to fix.
13:18<somiaj>ash__: they were quick, and the topic had the annoucment for about 5 days (maybe the weekend)
13:18<somiaj>somehow I think the annoucement hit on weds or thurs and the release hit the next sunday.
13:19<somiaj>but one thing is 0 rc bugs and when it is ready, I'm useing that as my main guide.
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13:21<ash__>10 bugs left if I used the filters correctly:
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13:22<somiaj>ash__: is what I use
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13:27<trpapp>ash__: use the first one. Filter by jessie
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13:29<draxdeveloper>so we will have a sad realise party....
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13:30<ash__>draxdeveloper: nice freudian slip :)
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13:34<sunbird>so.... do all 77 RC bugs have to be resolved before jessie can be released?
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13:36<ash__>sunbird: Please note that removals can still occur. In particular, the
13:36<ash__>automatic removal from testing remains active! We currently have
13:36<ash__>*at least* 12 RC bugs eligible for automatic removal before the
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13:36<Ir0nsh007er>sunbird: 65 bugs found
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13:43<sunbird>ah, okay. so, still 65, though. seems hard to imagine that those will all be squished by tomorrow?
13:43<somiaj>ash__: correct, there is a new policy in which packages that do not have the bugs being activally worked on can be removed. But I don't think there is a hard deadline that says, fix your bugs by this date or you are removed. If there is active work with possible fixes being made it is considered fine.
13:43<sunbird>i've already moved a few machines to jessie without any problems.
13:44<somiaj>sunbird: jessie is farily close to what it will be at release, the biggest issue is no security support until the offical release
13:45<sunbird>somiaj: security? who needs security? /s
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13:51<Ir0nsh007er>sunbird: lol
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13:55<finetundra>where should I ask a question about xrdp?
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13:56<finetundra>ok, is it possible to pipe audio through xrdp with version 6?
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13:57<sunbird>does anyone know if the audio stack has been improved much in jessie? my audio on my wheezy lenovo x220 is basically almost completely broken. :(
13:57<SynrG>,v xrdp
13:57<judd>Package: xrdp on amd64 -- squeeze: 0.5.0~20100303cvs-6; wheezy: 0.5.0-2; sid: 0.6.1-2; jessie: 0.6.1-2
13:57<Ir0nsh007er>finetundra: i think yes
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13:58<finetundra>Ir0nsh007er awesome
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14:02<finetundra>Ir0nsh007er, do you know if it requires alot of work or if it just works out of the box?
14:03<Ir0nsh007er>never tested but probable works whit less config
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14:05<Ir0nsh007er>in past i used krdp whit kde and work fine whit sound etc
14:07<draxdeveloper>ash_ just here in Brazil we will have the jessie party in 3 places...
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14:16<draxdeveloper>just to fully understand... In the realize day the actual jessie users will get updates? because the fglrx it's causing a bug in the actual jessie, i can wait to see this bug solved or is possible to jessie stable coming with this bug?
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14:20<blast007>draxdeveloper: was the bug reported?
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14:22<blast007>the "actual jessie" isn't going to be much different from what jessie is right now. right now they're just focusing on updating packages that have release critical bugs.
14:22<draxdeveloper>blast007 yeah...
14:24<draxdeveloper>i have a curiosity about debian... Someday, the characters from toy story will end (i think) how they will name the versions then? buzz2?
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14:28<nuno_nunes>Hello good night, I installed debian version 7.2 and is now available to 7.8 version and was wondering if there is a problem?
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14:36<retrospectacus>nuno_nunes: you may upgrade to 7.8 with "apt-get update; apt-get upgrade" or so. If you've been doing this (or installing updates thru the notifier applet or other) you are probably already there
14:36<nuno_nunes>thanks :)
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14:48<nuno_nunes>Give upgrade from version 7 to version 8 per year when it is released
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14:49<nuno_nunes>When you leave the version 8, the update to the previous version
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14:51<retrospectacus>nuno_nunes: what is your native language?
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14:52<nuno_nunes>portuguese :S
14:52<dpkg>Por favor use #debian-pt para ajuda em portugues ou #debian-br para ajuda em portugues do brasil. ( /join #debian-pt )
14:52<retrospectacus>if you are asking "how can I upgrade from 7 to 8 when 8 is released?" , then:
14:52<retrospectacus>dpkg: wheezy->jessie
14:52<dpkg>Remember that testing is a pre-release distribution without timely security support so be cautious; ask me about <jessie security>. (1) READ THE RELEASE NOTES: (2) From /etc/apt/sources.list, remove stable-specific lines like wheezy-updates and backports, and change wheezy to jessie. apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade. 3rd party repos like <dmo> are known to cause problems with the upgrade.
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14:53<suncokret>what is diference between debian and ubuntu? what is better/
14:53<retrospectacus>!why debian
14:53<dpkg>Debian strives to maintain your freedom whilst also paying close attention to the technical aspects of making a great OS. Debian is stable, upgradable and well tested. See also . As an added bonus, you get to ask questions in #debian.
14:53<retrospectacus>of course debian is better
14:54<suncokret>i use lubuntu, and it work great... i know that is ubuntu based on debian... why is debian better?
14:54<nuno_nunes>i ex user ubuntu
14:55<suncokret>can debian be faster or more light than lubuntu?
14:56<retrospectacus>debian is the universal operating system. It can be anything you want it to
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14:56<somiaj>suncokret: better is all about how you define it. I see this as personal choice. But yes you can compare certain aspects. Debian can start from a minimial install and you can only include the software you want.
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14:57<sunbird>i am an ex-ubuntu user and i prefer debian for the stability.
14:58<nuno_nunes>sunbird, i using debian and manjaro linux
14:58<nmschulte> sunbird Debian is better because Debian uses the Debian Free Software Guideline.
14:58<suncokret>somiaj: so advantage of debian is because i can install it with with less software and i can choose every software?
14:59<nmschulte>suncokret: ^^
14:59<suncokret>in lubuntu i can't choose what to install, i can only remove some software after installing OS
14:59<suncokret>if i don't want it
14:59<nmschulte>The difference between Debian and Ubuntu is essentially, the DFSG. Ubuntu doesn't quite give a damn; their goal is to provide working solutions out of the box, regardless of some of the costs.
15:00<nuno_nunes>in lubuntu using terminal
15:00<nuno_nunes>sudo apt-get update
15:00<nuno_nunes>and sudo apt-get install synaptic
15:00<somiaj>suncokret: some may consider that an advantage (note you also have to install all the dependencies to the software). But this comes at a cost, the user has to do more configuration and stuff isnt' as automatic. So what is better depends on use. Here we support debian and if you like our support you need to use debian. (:
15:01<zenith>Hi. Im new to Debian. Are there any protection software that I should install?
15:01<nmschulte>You don't need to use Debian, you just need to make it appear, to us, that you are.
15:01<nmschulte>Lots of "Debian" can translate to "Ubuntu," but it takes understanding to be able to do that.
15:02<somiaj>zenith: by default debian doens't really need much. i.e. you should only be installing services in which you use, so there shouldn't be anything listening on an open port that you don't want to be listening on an option port.
15:02<zenith>Ok, Im new to linux platform to so Im starting fresh, but I use debian =)
15:02<zenith>somiaj, thanks =)
15:02<somiaj>zenith: there are some guides out there, look up 'hardening debian'. The defaults are not 100% secure, but they tend to side on the edge of security (conservitaive defaults)
15:03<retrospectacus>dpkg: tell zenith about don't break debian
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15:03<retrospectacus>zenith: most useful protection is educating yourself
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15:03<somiaj>zenith: yea you don't need things like firewalls, virus protection and the likes. There are things to worry about, but for the most part it isn't 'oh lets install this software to protect me'
15:04<suncokret>i almost never don't use terminal... i use lubuntu about 10 months... it is very easy to install and use, light, stable, have much programs over synaptic and have good support (:
15:05<suncokret>but i ask here about diference, because i know that it is based on debian
15:06<zenith>okay. Sounds good! Im thinking of geting a vpn (ganna read more about openvpn and if thats a service or just a protocol). then maybe run with tor =) Watching to many vids on the tube about diffrent survilence and stuff like that haha
15:06<somiaj>suncokret: debian provides synaptic and you can install a full DE during the install. I would say that debian's DE's are as well polished as ubuntu, but this is due to the large amount of choice that debian offers over trying to polish one DE (note I think the defaults are fairly good and will work well, just to some it may not be as polished as a distro that focuses on that asepct)
15:06<somiaj>suncokret: sorry debian's DE's arne't as well poloished as ubnutus main DE.
15:07<suncokret>what is DE?
15:07<Compizfox>zenith: OpenVPN is a protocol + an implementation of it
15:07<somiaj>desktop enviorment suncokret
15:07<zenith>Compizfox: is it any good?
15:07<suncokret>DE = xfce, lxde, kde...?
15:07<somiaj>suncokret: such as gnome, kde, xfce, lxde (the main ones debian offers). Ubuntu's main is gnome + unity.
15:08<suncokret>so which you DE you use on debian?
15:08<Compizfox>zenith: Sure. Is use it myself to get access to my files over Samba when I´m at the uni
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15:08<somiaj>suncokret: oh there is also mate-desktop, and another one I ran across but forget its name. So debian provides at least 6 choices for desktops, and another 15-20 choices for a window manager if you want to go more minimial.
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15:08<somiaj>suncokret: the one you want. You get to choose.
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15:08<Compizfox>zenith: I believe the alternatives are pptp and IPsec, don´t know exactly how OpenVPN compares to them
15:09<somiaj>suncokret: note for mate and the other I was talking about you need jessie (which will be released soon)
15:09<suncokret>somiaj: i tried kde, xfce, lxde... i use lxde because i like light DE
15:09<dpkg>Internet Protocol Security (IPsec) is a protocol suite for securing Internet Protocol communications by authenticating and encrypting each IP packet of a data stream. Ask me about <openswan>, <strongswan>, <racoon>.
15:10<somiaj>suncokret: yea if you want a DE (so you have a bunch of graphical config tools) and light, lxde is good. I prefer a very simple window manager myself, and then configure the additional things I want as opposed to having a more integrated DE
15:10<zenith>Compizfox: thanks. ill do some reading about them to =)
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15:10<suncokret>i also tried mate and cinnamon
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15:13<suncokret>does somebody tried lxqt DE?
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15:19<agaida>sure - but if you not a developer or seasoned sid user i would wait with lxqt until it hits the repos
15:19<agaida>otherwise - nothing bad to say about, use it for two years now
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15:20<somiaj>suncokret: as long as you stick with debian stable and the packages debian provides, things work well. If you starting wating stuff outside of debian stable, you need to know what you are doing, as if you just start installing random stuff you can 'break your debian'
15:20<agaida>esp with DEs like lxqt - fast moving targets at the moment
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15:23<suncokret>i ask about lxqt because i use lxde and it will not be developed in future, so i hope lxqt will be light as lxde
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15:24<agaida>who said that lxde will not be developed in the future? - right now the lxde in debian is the best lxde ever released - and it is current
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15:26<suncokret>many people say that lxde will stop developing, and it will be lxqt
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15:26<suncokret>agaida: i don't know how is lxde in debian, but lxde in lubuntu is great (:
15:26<agaida>many people say many things - fact is: lxde is active developed and will be as long there are developers interested in
15:27<agaida>and lubuntu get the packages from debian
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15:28<agaida>just check the versions for jessie and a current ubuntu
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15:31<suncokret>i am glad if lxde will be developed in future... i will use it anyway
15:33<agaida>fact is that Andrej (look at the changelogs) has done a great job with lxde and i hope he will do so in the future
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15:34<ary>Hi. Why all themes that i download from doesn't work???
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15:37<zenith>Now I read the DontBreakDebian. Very good information! but I got a bit worried becose i have added an extra source in the sources.list to be able to install the wifi drivers. It was a deb to non-free. Need to do some reading about that =) Would be a bit ironic if the first thing i did was to broke it hehe
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15:41<retrospectacus>zenith: the non-free is relatively safe. It is part of Debian, just possibly encumbered somehow by patents or non-openness
15:41<retrospectacus>dpkg: tell zenith about non-free
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15:41<retrospectacus>dpkg: tell zenith about dfsg
15:44<zenith>retrospectacus: thanks! =) Much appreciated!
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15:47<zenith>This is very interesting! learning much, Its fun =D
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16:04<jalalsfs>When will Jessie release?
16:06<jalalsfs>ixi, It is already 25th
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16:08<ixi>jalalsfs not in all timezones
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16:10<jalalsfs>You're right, time here in India 01:40AM
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16:15<blast007>that was only the target date, so it won't necessarily happen on that exact date. It was noted there were still 65 release critical bugs in Jessie.
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16:19<suncokret>thank you for help
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18:51<retrospectacus>,v zoneminder
18:51<judd>Package: zoneminder on amd64 -- squeeze-security: 1.24.2-8+squeeze1; squeeze: 1.24.2-8+squeeze1; wheezy: 1.25.0-4; sid: 1.28.1-5; sid-multimedia: 1.28.1-dmo2; jessie-multimedia: 1.28.1-dmo2
18:51<retrospectacus>how can I see what differences are between e.g. sid and sid-dmo versions?
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20:02<k-man>i'm trying to configure apache2.4 to use php5-fpm ,
20:02<k-man>php5-fpm is running but when i load a page with phpinfo() it just shows the php content and not rendered php
20:02<k-man>no error messages in the apache logs
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20:04<soulresin>are you using <? or <?php? i got bit by the short tags setting a while back.
20:04<k-man>let me check
20:05<k-man>but a good thought though :)
20:05<soulresin>worth a shot :)
20:05<k-man>i think i'm lacking the part that tells apache to render as php any files that end in .php
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20:07<diraol>Hi friends, anyone can recommend a good how to on how to change my encrypted partition password?
20:07<diraol>I haven't lost it, I just want to update it since it's old now.
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20:10<k-man>oh, slight improvement, now i get an internal server error rather than unparsed php
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20:10<Brigo>k-man, did you think? :D
20:10<k-man>Brigo, think what?
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20:11<Brigo>the new error is an improvement, just a joke :)
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20:12<k-man>ah yeah... well, maybe its an improvement ;)
20:12<Compizfox>k-man: How have you tied Apache and php together?
20:12<Compizfox>Can you give us the configuration you are using?
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20:14<k-man>Compizfox, sure
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20:16<Compizfox>Ah, found your problem
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20:16<k-man>and then in 000-default.conf, i put a line like: ProxyPassMatch ^/(.*\.php(/.*)?)$ unix:/var/run/php5-fpm.sock|fcgi://
20:16<Compizfox>fastcgi doesn´t work in apache 2.4...
20:16<Compizfox>Oh, in that case you mixed up two things
20:16<k-man>damn its confusing
20:16<k-man>what's the debian way to do this?
20:17<k-man>and should I use 2.4?
20:17<Compizfox>Basically, there are three methods you can use: mod_fastcgi, mod_proxy_fcgid (using the nasty ProxyPass method) or using SetHandler
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20:17<Compizfox>yes you should absolutely use 2.4, it´s the latest stable Apache version
20:17<k-man>ah i see
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20:17<Compizfox>I don´t like the ProxyPass method because it breaks all kinds of things, like basic auth
20:17<k-man>ok, so ProxyPass = evil.
20:18<Compizfox>Not always, but if you want to pass requests to php5-fpm, yes ;)
20:18<k-man>right, I don't want that then, as I'm testing this to install later on my wordpress site
20:18<Compizfox>You want to use this method
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20:18<Compizfox>it is supported from Apache 2.4.10
20:18<Compizfox>for older versions you need to manually compile the mod_proxy_handler module
20:18<k-man>i see
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20:48<k-man>Compizfox, so i put the <FilesMatch> inside the vhost section of the config?
20:49<Compizfox>You, you don´t need to set it for every vhost
20:49<Compizfox>you can just put it in apache2.conf or mods-enabled/php.conf if you like
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20:53<k-man>ok, i think that doesn't work. a2enmod says module not found, but it works if i put it in confs-available and enable it with a2enconf
20:53<k-man>but php still not being processed
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21:01<Compizfox>what module where you trying to enable?
21:02<Compizfox>do you get any errors in /var/log/apache2/error.log?
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21:03<k-man>i put the php.conf in modules-available and did a2enmod php but perhaps i should have done a2enconf...
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21:05<Compizfox>ah, right
21:05<Compizfox>no that doesn´t work because it isn´t a real module. Well it is, but you don´t have it installed (and you don´t want to, because you want to use php5-fpm and not mod_php)
21:06<Compizfox>what I meant is that you could just put it in mods-enabled or conf-enabled or whatever if you want to have the config for php-fpm in a seperate file :)
21:06<Compizfox>you can also put it in apache2.conf, it doesn´t matter
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21:19<k-man>anyway, got to run, i'll have another go later, thanks for your help Compizfox
21:19<Compizfox>no problem
21:19<Compizfox>good luck
21:19<k-man>thanks :)
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22:34<TheGreatGMan>hi people, does anyone know a good/simple tuto to replace init scripts with the brand new systemd thing ?
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22:39<somiaj>TheGreatGMan: check the relase notes,
22:39<somiaj>there is a link to a guide in there
22:41<TheGreatGMan>that's exactly what i am looking for ! thank you :D
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---Logclosed Sat Apr 25 00:00:48 2015