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#debian IRC Logs for 2015-04-25

---Logopened Sat Apr 25 00:00:48 2015
00:00-!-Bobby [~Zombiekil@192.3.177.167] has joined #debian
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01:10-!-victor [~victor@pool-173-75-52-218.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
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02:04-!-amluongo [~amluongo@95.235.208.193] has joined #debian
02:04-!-amluongo is now known as aki
02:04-!-dfna [~dfna@117.217.134.44] has joined #debian
02:04-!-triski [~triski@51.248.217.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #debian
02:05-!-aki is now known as Guest3088
02:05-!-shterio [~shterio@94.190.188.75] has joined #debian
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02:05-!-wargreen [~wargreen@ip-26.net-82-216-164.joinville2.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #debian
02:06-!-Noskcaj [~Noskcaj@101.161.33.103] has joined #debian
02:06<dfna>Jessie -> stable
02:09<msg7086>Officially released?
02:10-!-ol [~quassel@ip-58-28-152-245.static-xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #debian
02:11-!-keep [~keep@177.10.192.126] has joined #debian
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02:15<triski>i still see the ftp "stable" symbolic link pointing to wheezy
02:15<triski>so i think not fully released yet
02:19-!-dranov [~dranov@2a02:2f0b:b043:8000:40e6:bf6e:38e7:40bb] has joined #debian
02:20<Ir0nsh007er>where you see that
02:20-!-tuxampol [~Mylin@ppp-188-174-8-87.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #debian
02:21<triski>ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian/dists/stable/Release
02:21-!-linuxuz3r [~linuxuz3r@2602:306:bd2a:a160:3428:deb:4f3f:644f] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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02:25-!-broucarie [~bastien@mla78-1-82-240-16-166.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #debian
02:28-!-krabador [~krabador@host12-178-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Take The Time]
02:30-!-arsenaali [~Zyn@5NZAAB5JM.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit []
02:31<dfna>how to upgrade to jessie, do i need to change the whole sources.list
02:31<Ir0nsh007er>yes
02:31<Ir0nsh007er>but not released yet still have 43 bug
02:32<Ir0nsh007er>https://udd.debian.org/bugs.cgi?release=wheezy_and_sid&fnewer=ign&fnewerval=14&rc=1&sortby=id&sorto=asc#results
02:32-!-scientes [~scientes@c-73-42-216-173.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #debian
02:32<dfna>i meant after offcial rrelease
02:33<Ir0nsh007er>https://www.debian.org/releases/jessie/amd64/release-notes/ch-information.en.html#systemd-upgrade-default-init-system
02:33<Ir0nsh007er>no before
02:34<themill>dpkg: tell dfna about wheezy->jessie
02:35<Ir0nsh007er>how
02:35<dfna>upgrade-default-init-system?
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02:38-!-mode/#debian [+l 723] by debhelper
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02:53<dfna>there are multiple entries in my grub., was only two -debian and debian recovery. But now, it is 5 ,,memory test etc,etc.
02:55<dfna>recently i installed unetbootin,,I guess, it flooded my grub..
02:55-!-johan_ [~johan@h-88-116.a230.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #debian
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03:00-!-fr33domlover [~fr33domlo@5.102.236.172] has quit [Quit: fr33domlover]
03:00<g0dfrey>unetbootin has been removed from testing
03:00-!-fr33domlover [~fr33domlo@5.102.236.172] has joined #debian
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03:02<dfna>any alternative for unetbootin
03:03-!-Vavency [~Vavency@78-56-237-56.static.zebra.lt] has joined #debian
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03:04<g0dfrey>dd,cat,cp...You may install extlinux to your usb image mannually and config it
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03:05<dfna>dd i tried, result was catastrophic
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03:48-!-Guest3091 is now known as jonas
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04:02-!-jonas_ is now known as jo0nas
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04:43-!-Guest3094 [jonas@188-183-5-254-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Quit: bye…]
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05:30<khankhan>Hi guys, I am trying to install debian on a computer with a UEFI BIOS without legacy which is blowing my mind. Can't even get to boot a live usb
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05:32<khankhan>The pc is a ASUS x205ta, which is specificly covered by the debian guide ( https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/Asus/X205TA ) but this does not make a bootable drive
05:33<khankhan>I managed to have an ubuntu booting usb pen and even installing it (not that I want it but I wanted to try) and, even though is recognised by the uefi boot *three times* when I boot from there it just gets back to the uefi panel
05:35<SynrGy>which release?
05:35<danlii>khankhan: I seem to remember having similar problems a while back. I think I solved it by totally wiping and re-writing the usb drive from a UEFI enabled computer, I think I had to make a GPT partition table on it as well.
05:36<khankhan>SynrGy: I tried with 7 and 8
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05:36<danlii>My other uefi computer wouldn't recognize the mbr partition on the usb drive if I made it with a legacy bios machine.
05:36<danlii>Which struck me as odd...
05:36<SynrGy>if you can't even get it to boot a live release, this is probably outside the scope of debian :/
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05:37<khankhan>danlii: that sounds promising, what did you use to make a GPT partition table? I never used such a format
05:37<SynrGy>assuming you imaged it to the USB media correctly (i.e. not using unetbootin or other such crap)
05:38<danlii>khankhan: fdisk :)
05:38<SynrGy>!install usb
05:38<SynrGy>hmm, wrong factoid name
05:38<SynrGy>!usb install
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05:38<dpkg>You can install Debian from a USB stick/thumbdrive/pen drive/key on x86 systems, as long as your system's BIOS can boot from USB. Details are in the Installation Guide, see http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/ch04s03 and ask me about <install debian> for hybrid CD/DVD images. Use http://sf.net/projects/win32diskimager/ to write images from Windows. For BIOSes not capable of USB boot, ask me about <plop>.
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05:40<khankhan>danlii: ok, I do not have any other EFI computer but I can give a try with a fdisk gpt partition. Should I install a EFI boot there?
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05:41<khankhan>SynrGy: I tried dd, unetbootin, multisystem, none worked
05:41<danlii>khankhan: Don't remember, but it can't hurt.
05:43<khankhan>Ok, thanks, I'll give it a try
05:43<amacater>Latest Jessie RC should do it - Sledge did a lot of work on this. dd the iso image should also work
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05:44<khankhan>I'll try with the jessie rc3
05:44-!-mode/#debian [+o Maulkin] by ChanServ
05:44-!-Maulkin changed the topic of #debian to: Jessie releasing today: https://identi.ca/debian | wheezy released: /msg dpkg squeeze->wheezy | current point release: /msg dpkg 7.8 | NO FLOOD: /msg dpkg paste | /msg bots NOT people | offtopic: #debian-offtopic | testing/unstable: #debian-next | chanlogs: /msg dpkg irclog | Broken suspend with 7.8? http://deb.li/5tYG
05:44<khankhan>Do you think I should go for 32 or 64 bit?
05:45-!-mode/#debian [-o Maulkin] by Maulkin
05:45<SynrGy>khankhan: i think you should verify first that a dd (or cp, as the factoid recommends) produces a working image that boots on another system
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05:45<khankhan>I usually go for 32 but I read somewhere that that would not boot it (the pc supports 64)
05:45<SynrGy>once you've confirmed a working image *then* debug
05:45<SynrGy>because unetbootin would almost always produce unusable results
05:46<SynrGy>and that would mess with your ability to troubleshoot
05:46<khankhan>Sound right, I'll proceed and report back, thanks!
05:46<SynrGy>even with dd or cp you can mess it up (e.g. by forgetting to 'sync' and not all buffers are flushed before you pull the key)
05:46<SynrGy>and USB keys can go bad
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08:07<converge>Im trying to install debian on a macbook pro, everything looks ok, but after select the partitions for / and swap and say "yes" to apply it, it says fail to mount //bot/efi. anyone knows what could be wrong ?
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08:41<guardian>hello, what's the difference between https://wiki.debian.org/DebianGeoMirror and httpredir.debian.org g?
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08:42<OdyX>guardian: not the same technique at all.
08:43<guardian>which should be favored?
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08:43<OdyX>guardian: httpredir.debian.org
08:43<guardian>ok
08:43<OdyX>guardian: DebianGeoMirror tells the succession of ideas that lead to the current httpredir.debian.org
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08:44<guardian>well in fact http://http.debian.net/ serves the same explanation page as httpredir.debian.org
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08:49<keinek>hello
08:49<keinek>today is the day?
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08:49<guardian>OdyX: so yeah to rephrase my question, I was wondering whether @debian twitter account advertising the use of httpredir.debian.org in /etc/apt/sources.list was any different from using http.debian.net
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08:49<guardian>OdyX: but in fact it seems to be equivalent
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08:54<OdyX>guardian: http.debian.net is the same software as httpredir.debian.org. Use httpredir, as http.debian.net is now deprecated.
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08:56<guardian>OdyX: well I've been using http.debian.net for 3 months, in that respect I think I was already using the new technique. It's just now http.debian.net is an alias for httpredir.debian.org
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08:57<OdyX>guardian: Good then. But you should still change your URLs because http.debian.net will eventually disappear.
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08:58<guardian>OdyX: done already :) well... I doubt it's going to disappear. It's harmless to keep it as a CNAME. Unless http.debian.net is reused for some other landing page
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09:26<koosha>at what time will it be released today?
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09:27<themill>it's a multi-hour effort (and it makes little difference to users, really...)
09:27<TobiX>koosha: When it's done ;)
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09:46<maikSanger>hi all
09:47*YamashitaRen_ wonders if he is the only one that will problems with ufw upgrade...
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10:26<aef>weasel: when gnupg 2.1 is introduced to testing after Jessie is out, and maybe backported to Jessie, is there any chance it can get serious Security team support?
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10:27<aef>whoops, he isn't even here. so that question goes to everyone then
10:27<centrx>not "serious Security team support" no
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10:28<ompaul>aef: usually something like that which needs support like that has the upstream fixing it and then it drops into the tree if the dev is looking at it
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10:29<Cor3>hello! there was a rumor that debian 8 would be released today, is that true?
10:29<themill>Cor3: /topic
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10:29<jcoli>join #debiancd
10:29<Cor3>themill: ok, sorry that i did not read that in first place ;)
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10:30<Cor3>themill: its now copying to mirrors?
10:30<themill>!releasingjessie
10:30<dpkg>i guess releasingjessie is FTP/Release teams' work complete; i386 images done, CD testing in progress
10:30<centrx>This page says no release parties in the U.S. for some reason: https://wiki.debian.org/ReleasePartyJessie
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11:19<Guest3121>Hi guys! Somebody know anything about the Debian 8 release date?
11:20<centrx>Guest3121, The date is today
11:20<EmleyMoor>Still "today"
11:20<Guest3121>:D
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11:25<musca>Guest3121: http://releaseteamstatus.info/
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11:38<Guest3121>musca, it's a debian team website?
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11:39<ScanX>hi
11:40<agaida>nothing will be released today - its all a long planned hoax
11:40<agaida>:P
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11:54<ewfeb>hey
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12:03<PHeanEX>Does anyone know why we still have this "normal users can't run services on ports < 1024"? Isn't this really obsolete now? (No debian specific question)
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12:06<tremon>PHeanEX: why would it be obsolete?
12:07<PHeanEX>tremon: why whould we still need to restrict it ...
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12:08<PHeanEX>tremon: i feel its more of a hassle now if you want to run a service as an ordinary user providing stuff like common ftp http or so
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12:09<tremon>PHeanEX: and how many users on a box would want to provide their own ftp or http server?
12:09<PHeanEX>tremon: tbh i really don't see the benefit
12:10<PHeanEX>tremon: as far as i know its good practice to run stuff as a common low privileged user for security reasons (so that if someone exploits bugs in say the vsftp, he does not automatically get root access)
12:10-!-adb [~IonMoldov@2a02:1205:5007:e550:baac:6fff:fe67:305f] has joined #debian
12:11<PHeanEX>tremon: so normally every administrator would want to do that (iirc thats what already done with start-stop-daemon)
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12:12<PHeanEX>tremon: like starting a service with root because we need to have root rights to be able to run a service on port < 1024 and then immediately drop all privileges and continue as normal user
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12:13<converge>does default installer partition tool suports GPT ?
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12:14<PHeanEX>tremon: i guess i better ask in the kernel channel :-)
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12:14<tremon>I don't know the original rationale for restricting those ports. But at least connecting to restricted ports gives some confidence (for me, as a user) that I'm connecting to an administrator-blessed service
12:14<PHeanEX>tremon: i guess its explained here quite well http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/16564/why-are-the-first-1024-ports-restricted-to-the-root-user-only
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12:15<PHeanEX>tremon: if i understand that correctly => its pretty much outdated
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12:21<converge>I have this EFI boot partition, and now im installing debian, can I touch this partition, or will it break my actual system (osx) ?
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12:23<tremon>converge: I don't know anything about osx, but the theory is that the installer will only add files there, not remove anything. It should be mounted at /boot/efi
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12:24<chris_se>PHeanEX, running services with reduced privileges is orthogonal to this: you can easily drop privileges AFTER creating the socket - it's what most network-facing services do for I can't even remember how long
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12:25<chris_se>e.g. apache: starts as root, opens socket for port 80 (and possibly 443 if you use ssl) and then changes it's user & group to be www-data
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12:27<converge>tremon: I mounted the efi partition as /boot/efi, but when I finish the partition work it says "attempt to mount a file system type vfat in SCI1 (0,0,0), partition #1 (sda) at /boot/efi failed. do you have some ideia what could be wrong ?
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12:30<tremon>converge: no. Maybe check alt-f4 (log screen) for any error messages
12:30<PHeanEX>chris_se: but do you have a good argument why it still should be this way?
12:30<chris_se>PHeanEX, as to your original question: well, if port < 1024 then you can be sure that the service answering it was started by the administrator of the box (assuming the box wasn't owned), if you don't have that restriction, that's not possible
12:31<PHeanEX>chris_se: as explained in the stackexchangelink above: mostly the administrator is also the owner/usr (its the same person) and with the rise of vms its even more pointless to argue with trust
12:32<chris_se>for desktops, sure
12:32<PHeanEX>chris_se: servers are mostly also vms today ...
12:33<PHeanEX>chris_se: i totally understand why we have it today, but i don't see why we shouldn't abolish it ..
12:33<chris_se>and I know of VMs where lots of users can log in but none of them has admin rights on that box
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12:33<chris_se>should they be able to start system services by themselves?
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12:33<chris_se>(webserver or such)
12:34<chris_se>PHeanEX, defense in depth: it doesn't protect against every possible scenario you can dream up of, but it does prevent some obvious things people can do in certain constellations
12:34<chris_se>on your personal desktop box or so: maybe it's not quite as important
12:35<chris_se>but if it helps in other cases: why would you want to get rid of it?
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12:35<PHeanEX>chris_se: because it makes things easier
12:36<chris_se>really?
12:36<chris_se>- for development, where you restart stuff constantly, you can just as easily use an unprivileged port
12:36<PHeanEX>chris_se: i know i can work my way around it, but why should i have to?
12:36<chris_se>- for other stuff you configure it once properly to be started by your init system of choice (whatever that may be) and you don't have to think about it anymore (which is better anyway for something that's not just temporary)
12:37<PHeanEX>chris_se: the initsystem does just the same
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12:37<PHeanEX>chris_se: i guess theres also a capability in the kernel fpr <1024 ?
12:37<chris_se>yes
12:38<PHeanEX>chris_se: why not make this the default?
12:38<chris_se>although capabilities on linux suck
12:38<PHeanEX>chris_se: ;-) other topic yeah
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12:38<PHeanEX>chris_se: hands down, do you really think its necessary any longer today?
12:38<chris_se>yes
12:38<chris_se>not in every case, but yes
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12:39<PHeanEX>chris_se: i feel its the same like with security by obscurity ... doesn't really do much but in some cases its at least a little help :-)
12:39<chris_se>it's not obscure, it's well documented
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12:41<jalalsfs>I heard that debian 8 would release in 25 April, is that conformed?
12:41<@Maulkin>Yes. Follow along: https://identi.ca/debian
12:42<@Maulkin>Or see the topic
12:42-!-mode/#debian [-o Maulkin] by Maulkin
12:42<chris_se>PHeanEX, so following your logic: having /etc/shadow unreadable by normal users is then also something you disagree with? because if the hash function is quite safe, people shouldn't be able to break the passwords, right? so the additional fact that you can't access it as a normal user (making life for developers of e.g. screenlockers a bit harder) would be unnecessary in your eyes?
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12:43<chris_se>sorry, but just because something doesn't help against all possible attack vectors, doesn't mean it's useless - it just means that you shouldn't rely on it solely
12:43<PHeanEX>chris_se: i am totally on your side with /etc/shadow, (tbh i dont see the analogy here)
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12:44<administrator_>When will Debian testing get new packages? I see even the unstable version is till using Qt4 and KDE plasma 4.
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12:45<PHeanEX>chris_se: maybe my point of view on such things is too liberal. Like when i would like to open a service on my machine on whatever port i like and iam restricted, iam asking myself: why am i restricted and is that really necessary
12:45<chris_se>the analogy is simple: if you want to write a screen locker, you can't just write a simple program, it actually has to be installed with privileges (and you have to be extra careful because of that) in order for you to be able verify the user's password - same logic: making /etc/shadow unreadable doesn't help in all cases (somebody gets access to the hard drive, for example), but it does make it more difficult
12:45-!-soundconjurer [~soundconj@2601:5:c400:23f:2d06:e422:7aa0:edf5] has quit []
12:45<HiTree>converge, tremon: Is mounting required? Doesn't the installer do this automaticly in EFI mode?
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12:45<musca>administrator_: debian was frozen since November.
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12:46<PHeanEX>chris_se: i see the consistency in your screen-logic but i fail to see the connection to the difficulty with ports <1024 sry
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12:46<chris_se>administrator_, Jessie (Debian 8) comes with Qt5, in just doesn't come with Plasma 5
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12:47<chris_se>mostly because Plasma 5 was not considered quite ready yet in october
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12:48<administrator_>Okay, but i see Kubuntu have plasma 5 now, so when will Debian make this the default?
12:48<soundconjurer>Likely Debian 9.0
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12:50<PHeanEX>chris_se: anyway, thanks for helping me with my confusion :-)
12:51<soundconjurer>I know this question has been asked a million times. When do the Debian 8.0 Final ISOs hit the server?
12:52<koollman>"soon" is the most likely answer :)
12:52<soundconjurer>Thank you
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12:52<soundconjurer>I figured it was obscure.
12:52<Xylon>PHeanEX, if unprivilaged users could start services on < 1024 it would open new attack vectors. e.g.:
12:52<chris_se>PHeanEX, it just boils down to the fact that most people working on this are more conservative when it comes to security, especially where the impact of it is just a little nuisance if you don't want it, but can actually help prevent bad stuff from happening
12:52<Xylon>1. someone breaks into an unprivilaged user account
12:52<administrator_>But isn't Debian 9.0 the new Testing version? How come plasma 5 is stable enough for Kubuntu but not for Debian which Kubuntu is based on?
12:52<Xylon>2. He then crashes HTTPD by some sort of DOS attack
12:53<Maulkin>soundconjurer: They're being built and tested as we speak. There's > 1000 isos to build, so it takes some time.
12:53<Xylon>3. He then starts his own httpd
12:53-!-centrx [~centrx@50.153.135.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:53<Compizfox>administrator_: Ubuntu/Kubuntu aren´t directly based on Debian anymore. (they don´t pull their packages directly from the Debian repo´s)
12:53-!-ompaul [~ompaul@000135c2.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: and zebedee said its time for other stuff]
12:53<Maulkin>soundconjurer: As soon as that happens, then they'll appear.
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12:54<Compizfox>Debian 9 will be the new testing. Hopefully Plasma 5 will migrate into testing soon.
12:54<Xylon>4. uses his new httpd to distribute malware or porn
12:54<Compizfox>If you want a distro that is more bleeding edge than Debian but you don´t want/like (K)Ubuntu, I can recommend Arch
12:54<somiaj>administrator_: a bid difference between distros can be what they consider stable and how they do releases. Debian is usually more conservative on this than others. Also jessie froze last year, so anything not ready for what debian considers stable had to be in testing last year.
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12:55<soundconjurer>Maulkin, I understand. I was just merely wondering if there was a set time that I missed.
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12:57<administrator_>Okay thank you, how long do you think it will be before Testing starts using KDE 5 packages by default? Can you estimate this or not?
12:57<Guest3121>waiting Debian release, http://www.poll-maker.com/poll302585x2b18402d-11 :)
12:58<Maulkin>soundconjurer: Nope, as soon as the iso files are done, basically.
12:58<chris_se>PHeanEX, btw. if you're running Debian GNU/kFreeBSD, you can do sysctl net.inet.ip.portrange.reservedhigh=0 and get what you want (Linux doesn't support something like that, but you could always patch your kernel ;-))
12:58-!-Funambuli [~Funambuli@37.Red-176-83-41.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #debian
12:58<Maulkin>soundconjurer: We started early this morning, so when they're done, they get published.
12:59<somiaj>administrator_: depends on how easy it is for the matianers to make the switch. First testing has to kinda settle down from the wild ride it is having right now, after that it dpeneds on when it is ready. So first it has to be good enough to enter unstable, then the packages have to live in unstable long enough with no rc bugs to migrate to testing. -- long story short, no time line.
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13:01<chris_se>administrator_, the debian kde devs recently uploaded the most current versions of KDE software to experimental, but it's not all accepted yet, see: https://ftp-master.debian.org/new.html
13:01<chris_se>(that list contains packages uploaded but not yet accepted into debian, and some of them are KDE5)
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13:02<chris_se>you'll have to ask them as to when they're planning on uploading them to unstable (so they can migrate to testing)
13:02<PHeanEX>chris_se: too bad im linux only ;-) and patching every system i would like to see that feature on would'nt be feasible :-)
13:03<chris_se>Guest3121, isn't that poll woefully incomplete?
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13:05<administrator_>Okay thank you, i'll use Kubuntu 15.04 in the mean time while i wait for Testing to get the new KDE 5 packages, whenever it may be.
13:05<chris_se>just off the top of my head, you are missing at least Gnome 3 Classic, Mate, Awesome, i3, Enlightenment, LXDE in your poll
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13:22<converge>Im trying to install debian and it says on disk partition step "attempt to mount a file system type vfat in SCI1 (0,0,0), partition #1 (sda) at /boot/efi failed" anyone know what could be wrong ?
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13:35<roberth1990>converge: did you create the partition with the partition manager in the installer?
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13:36<converge>roberth1990: its a mac, the efi partition was created in osx installation
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13:37<roberth1990>converge: well I think you need to create it with the debian installer
13:37<converge>roberth1990: I tried, but the installer says there is two efi partitions and cant continue
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13:38<roberth1990>converge: you have to tell it that the other one is not going to be used
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13:38<converge>roberth1990: how I could do that?
13:39<kentropy_>Hello all. I just installed Debian Jessie on my laptop. Unfortunately, my audio isn't working. I not exactly sure how to troubleshoot my issue. "aplay -l" gives "no soundcards found".
13:39<converge>kentropy_: what lspci says?
13:39<roberth1990>converge: go into the options for the parition and change the option marked with "ESP" to the option that says its not going to be used, im not sure what it is called
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13:40<Rosa>hello
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13:40<kentropy_>converge: 00:1b.0 Audio device: Intel Corporation 6 Series/C200 Series Chipset Family High Definition Audio Controller (rev 04)
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13:41<converge>kentropy_: I have just the tty right now, but you could google your sound card linux on google
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13:42<kentropy_>Cool, I'll google around. Thanks.
13:42<mtn>kentropy_: use alsamixer (in a terminal) and pavucontrol to adjust your sound devices and settings
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13:43<rdm>kentropy_ did u reboot from windows?
13:44<kentropy_>mtn: there are no sound cards to choose from in alsamixer
13:44<converge>roberth1990: "do not use this partition" option ?
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13:44<kentropy_>rdm: I came from ubuntu
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13:44<Rosa>hellllooo
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13:45<roberth1990>converge: yes
13:45<roberth1990>Rosa: !ask
13:45<roberth1990>Rosa: I mean just ask
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13:45<rdm>kentropy_: i mean, do you have windows installed on yout machine? if yes, did you reboot your machine after starting it on windows? i'm asking because in my wife's laptop the sound never works when she restarts from windows... it's in jessie already
13:46<rdm>I still didnt have time to investigate whats doing on
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13:46<kentropy_>rdm: no, i don't have windows installed on my machine. Thanks
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13:47<mtn>kentropy_: http://www.debianhelp.co.uk/sound.htm
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13:47<kentropy_>mtn: thanks! checking it out now.
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13:48<Compizfox>kentropy_: I´m not sure, but I´m guessing you need a (non-free?) driver or firmware if your sound isn´t working out-of-the-box
13:50<converge>roberth1990: that worked, thanks!!
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13:56<riccardo>sera
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13:57<Rosa>k
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13:59<soundconjurer>I am having an anxiety attack waiting for final release. :P
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14:08<roberth1990>soundconjurer: it is released technically, its just not all images are done yet
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14:09<soundconjurer>I know :)
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14:10<roberth1990>soundconjurer: what are you waiting for then? :)
14:10<roberth1990>you can upgrade your existing install allready
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14:11<ScanX>hi
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14:14<soundconjurer>Where would I obtain a final release disc?
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14:15<soundconjurer>ISO
14:15-!-RdrOfTheSt0rm [~RdrOfTheS@0001f4e3.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
14:15<roberth1990>soundconjurer: which architecture?
14:16<soundconjurer>amd64
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14:17<Compizfox>I didn´t know the final release ISO´s were available already
14:17<roberth1990>they aren't untill all of them are built
14:17<roberth1990>actually
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14:18<musca>https://wiki.debian.org/Teams/DebianCD/ReleaseTesting/Jessie
14:18<roberth1990>soundconjurer: but you can use rc3 of the jessie image
14:18<soundconjurer>Does it automatically upgrade to the Final?
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14:19<roberth1990>no I was wrong: http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/.jessie_release/debian-cd/amd64/iso-cd/
14:19<roberth1990>soundconjurer: ^
14:19<roberth1990>soundconjurer: well yeah if you use the netinstall image
14:20<soundconjurer>Oh, nice.
14:20<soundconjurer>Well I will get on that now.
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14:21<rootcryptdb>Ola
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14:23<rootcryptdb>ACE ta ae?
14:24<rootcryptdb>ace ta ae
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14:24<roberth1990>!es
14:24<dpkg>Este canal es de soporte técnico en Inglés para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en Español, puede ingresar en #debian-es tecleando /join #debian-es en la línea de chat.
14:25<rootcryptdb>robert
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14:25<Beerbarian>My APT sources list has been on Jessie with a dist-upgrade. If I've been doing daily update/upgrade, I would be same as final?
14:25<Compizfox>yep
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14:29<gone---------->roberth1990: http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/.jessie_release/debian-cd/amd64/iso-dvd/ is it safe to download? :P
14:29<gone---------->are those the final isos?
14:29<roberth1990>gone----------: yes
14:29<gone---------->=] awesome!!!!
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14:30<gone---------->life is good =]
14:31<gone---------->hopefully i have a choice in the installer to use sysvinit instead of systemd
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14:31<gone---------->if not i guess i'll have to search for more information
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14:32<chris_se>gone----------, well, they are the final isos if nothing extremely problematic comes up in last-minute testing (very unlikely, but not impossible)
14:32<chris_se>gone----------, if you want sysvinit, you'll have to preseed the installer
14:33<chris_se>gone----------, http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/How_to_stay_with_sysvinit_in_Debian_Jessie.html
14:33<gone---------->thanks
14:33-!-phillipsjk [~james@cable-northern-66-18-231-97.broadband.nucleus.com] has joined #debian
14:33<gone---------->or i can install sysvinit-core right?
14:33<chris_se>short thing: in the installer, manuall add the kernel option there (preseed file is only if you want to create your own cd)
14:34<chris_se>yes, if you can live with booting systemd for the first time and then change init system (and then reboot), you can also do that
14:34<gone---------->yeah that sounds bareable ;)
14:34-!-fae [~fabrice@78.194.101.123] has joined #debian
14:34<gone---------->*bearable
14:34<chris_se>(a lot of people on the debian-user mailing list didn't find that satisfactory however, so that's why I mentioned the other way)
14:35<chris_se>or actually, you don't even have to boot with systemd
14:35<gone---------->hopefully they provide the freedom of choice in the installer
14:35<chris_se>in the boot menu, there's should be an entry (under advanced option) to choose a different init system
14:36<chris_se>gone----------, no, the installer doesn't have a menu for that
14:36<gone---------->ah
14:36<gone---------->d-i preseed/late_command string in-target apt-get install -y sysvinit-core sounds simple enough
14:36-!-dranov [~dranov@2a02:2f0b:b043:8000:40e6:bf6e:38e7:40bb] has joined #debian
14:36<gone---------->*preseeding
14:36<chris_se>the kernel option for the installer is: preseed/late_command="in-target apt-get install --purge -y sysvinit-core"
14:37<chris_se>the line you c&p'd is for preseed files if you build your own cd
14:37<gone---------->oh gotcha
14:37<gone---------->thanks
14:37<chris_se>no problem
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14:40<chris_se>note, however, that if you install any modern desktop environment, they will require logind (replacement for consolekit) that's part of the systemd package (because the maintainers didn't want to split up the pacakge) - this means systemd will be installed but only some parts not related to system setup (mainly logind) will be used
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14:41<chris_se>(that logind is used is nothing new, ubuntu has had that for quite a few releases now, even long before they decided to switch to systemd)
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14:42<chris_se>systemd-sysv is the package that makes systemd pid1, i.e. that makes your system boot with systemd; the 'systemd' package contains a bunch of binaries (systemd among them) but doesn't in and by itself do anything
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14:45<gone---------->ah thanks for the info again
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14:51<Rosa>hola
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14:56<roberth1990>!ask
14:56<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
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14:59<Rosa>hello men
14:59<Rosa>in wuomen
14:59<gone---------->stop trolling and ask a question
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15:06<EmleyMoor>identi.ca/debian - how can I respond to it?
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15:07<fille>hello!
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15:08<musca>hello fille
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15:18<Corsov>Hi everyone
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15:25<gone---------->I got "buffer i/o error on device sr0" several times before the jessie graphical installer launched. Any idea why?
15:26<gone---------->sr0 I'm sure refers to my cd-rom drive which is perfectly fine
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15:29<faheem>Did jessie not release then? I don't see an accouncement anywhere.
15:29<roberth1990>faheem: it wont be announced untill all cd images are ready
15:30<roberth1990>but technically it is released
15:30<roberth1990>dvd and bluray images also
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15:31<gone---------->faheem: http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/.jessie_release/debian-cd/
15:31<faheem>roberth1990: i see. they're holding off on the release announcement? Ok.
15:31<faheem>gone----------: ok. thanks.
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15:31<roberth1990>faheem: yes, since when the anouncement is given people will expect the images to be ready
15:31<roberth1990>standard proceedure afaik
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15:32<faheem>Ok. I'm planning to go to a release party later today (Sunday). Can anyone point me to an easy guide to get my key signed?
15:32<faheem>Should I make sure it is on some key server?
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15:32<roberth1990>faheem: which key?
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15:33<faheem>roberth1990: not sure what you mean. my key.
15:33<roberth1990>faheem: your key for what?
15:33<gone---------->key for what?
15:33<faheem>roberth1990: pgp key. for signing.
15:33-!-dlobrien [~dlobrien@2601:6:7000:ed1:518f:6ae5:31d6:ba36] has quit []
15:34<faheem>for signing stuff. the usual.
15:34-!-konp [~konp@62.169.219.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:34<roberth1990>faheem: oh you have your own repo?
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15:34<roberth1990>if so, I dont know...
15:35<faheem>roberth1990: I'm not sure what you mean by "own repo".
15:35<roberth1990>faheem: you don't specify what the key is for
15:35<Maulkin>faheem: Take some government issued ID, and your fingerprint. the package 'signing-party' has lots of useful tools
15:35<Maulkin>roberth1990: It's a gpg key.
15:35<roberth1990>ohhh those keys
15:36<Maulkin>faheem: http://cryptnet.net/fdp/crypto/keysigning_party/en/keysigning_party.html may be worth a read too
15:36<roberth1990>Maulkin: yeah but I dont understand the context of what of why he needed his key signed
15:37<Maulkin>roberth1990: Debian relies on the Web of Trust - if you want to become a debian developer, you need your key signed by another dd
15:37<faheem>Maulkin: signing party. check.
15:37<Maulkin>And it generally helps build the WoT anyway
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15:38<faheem>Maulkin: can I manage without a working computer?
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15:38<roberth1990>Maulkin: ah to contribute, I see
15:38<Maulkin>faheem: um... if you have copies of your fingerprint already.
15:38<faheem>Maulkin: so a printout of my fingerprint will work?
15:38<faheem>Now, I wonder if I can remember my passphrase. :-(
15:39<Maulkin>faheem: yup.
15:39<Maulkin>faheem: you should take copies so people can take it away and verify it later
15:40<faheem>Maulkin: ok
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15:40<faheem>how do I test my passphrase?
15:40<Maulkin>You don't need it...
15:41<faheem>roberth1990: i have my key signed by one person so far, I think.
15:41<faheem>Maulkin: well, I will need to check if I remember it. :-)
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15:41<faheem>If I can't it's a pretty useless key.
15:41<roberth1990>faheem: yeah I understand, attend a key signing party
15:41<AriMartti>faheem: you don't have a working computer?
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15:42<faheem>AriMartti: I don't have a working laptop. Well, the battery died.
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15:43<faheem>I guess the laptop itself might be ok. I haven't tried using it for a while.
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15:43<AriMartti>well, you still have a working desktop?
15:43<faheem>AriMartti: sure
15:43<AriMartti>try to encrypt and decrypt a fil
15:43<AriMartti>+e
15:43<faheem>that's what I'm using now.
15:43<faheem>AriMartti: ok
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15:44<faheem>I have another person's name in my keys. How do I check which key he signed? And should I go to a pgp channel or something?
15:47<faheem>I think this is probably my key. Does it look ok?
15:47<faheem>pub 4096R/392B82C5 2012-08-18
15:47<faheem>uid Faheem Mitha <faheem@faheem.info>
15:47<faheem>sub 4096R/60AE3EE2 2012-08-18
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15:48<Maulkin>It's been signed by praveen
15:49<Maulkin>But looks ok.
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15:50<faheem>Maulkin: how can you tell?
15:51-!-dvs [~colin@00012127.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
15:51<sheap>when's jessie coming out!
15:51<roberth1990_>sheap: today
15:51<sheap>roberth1990_: do you know a time or no
15:51<AriMartti>roberth1990_: in which time?
15:52<AriMartti>in Helsinki time is 22:52:10
15:52-!-st3500 [~st3500@ool-18be7921.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #debian
15:52<AriMartti>in america it's some hours less
15:52<roberth1990_>it is technically released
15:53<roberth1990_>they dont announce it untill all cd/dvd/bluray images are done
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15:53<Maulkin>faheem: gpg --recv-keys 392B82C5; gpg --list-sigs 392B82C5
15:53-!-mguichar [~smuxi@mcgonagall.emi.u-bordeaux1.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:53<Maulkin>AriMartti: Before UTC-13, hopefully
15:54<Maulkin>um sheap: ^^
15:54<Maulkin>sheap: release is done, we're testing the .iso images (there's over 1000!) and then we'll do a mirror push and announce it.
15:54<Maulkin>See https://identi.ca/debian to follow along
15:54<AriMartti>https://identi.ca/debian/note/nMQ4UqthQxuz1wnNc8Yigw
15:55<faheem>Maulkin: it says
15:55<faheem>aheem@orwell:/usr/share/doc/signing-party/caff$ gpg --recv-keys 392B82C5
15:55<faheem>gpg: no keyserver known (use option --keyserver)
15:55<faheem>gpg: keyserver receive failed: bad URI
15:55<AriMartti>how long process it's usully is?
15:55<faheem>Should I set a default keyserver?
15:55<Maulkin>faheem: yes, I use pool.sks-keyservers.net
15:55<faheem>Maulkin: ok
15:55<faheem>Are they all connected? Do they get passed around?
15:56<Maulkin>They're not /all/ connected, but that's part of the biggest network.
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15:58<faheem>Maulkin: ok.
15:59<faheem>Maulkin: looks like it is there. 392B82C5 I mean
15:59<Maulkin>Yup.
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16:00<faheem>Maulkin: so what do I need to take with me to the key party?
16:01<faheem>the string 392B82C5? or something more?
16:02-!-baumas [~baumas@c-66-41-163-172.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
16:02<Maulkin>faheem: http://paste.debian.net/168864/
16:02-!-marian [~marian@ip5b43fa8d.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:02<Maulkin>faheem: Which comes from "gpg --fingerprint 392B82C5"
16:02-!-baumas [~baumas@2601:2:5b00:8a3:7ec3:a1ff:fea2:76cc] has joined #debian
16:02<faheem>Maulkin: I should just take that?
16:02<Maulkin>However, you MUST generate that yourself.
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16:03<Maulkin>faheem: you need to take one copy for each person you want to sign your key
16:03<faheem>Maulkin: ok. So I print that out and take it?
16:03-!-tetrapovicc [~trifyl@AToulouse-652-1-223-158.w92-136.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #debian
16:03<faheem>Maulkin: why does it matter who generates it?
16:03-!-sheap [~sean@pool-98-112-14-252.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2]
16:03<Maulkin>faheem: Because you're saying that it's YOUR key. Don't trust someone random on the internet to get that for you.
16:04<Maulkin>faheem: gpg-key2ps will do it (part of the package 'signing-party'
16:05<faheem>Maulkin: ok
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16:06<faheem>Maulkin: it works, but those are pretty small strips of paper.
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16:06<Maulkin>faheem: yes, that's all that's needed.
16:06-!-Bloodsword [~kvirc@166.151.102.84.rev.sfr.net] has joined #debian
16:07<faheem>Maulkin: so what happens? you slice off a bit and give it to someone?
16:07<Maulkin>You need to give a slip to each person that's signing your key, along with your ID. Go read that link about signing parties I posted earlier
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16:08<faheem>Maulkin: ok. doing that now. thanks.
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16:08<faheem>Oh, you're Neil McGovern
16:09<Maulkin>Yes, I am indeed. Hai!
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16:09<faheem>Maulkin: Congratulations, btw.
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16:10<Maulkin>faheem: Thanks :þ
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16:11<faheem>Maulkin: yikes, it didn't print properly. And it is supposed to be A4 too.
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16:12<Maulkin>faheem: Well, just print a few.
16:12<faheem>Trying the PS directly. I did a PS -> PDF conversion.
16:12<faheem>Maulkin: I mean that sheet that gpg-key2ps produced.
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16:14<faheem>Maulkin: ok, printing it a different way worked.
16:14<Maulkin>Cool :)
16:14<faheem>I think the PS -> PDF conversion messed up the orientation.
16:15<faheem>it was originally landscape. it got printed as portrait.
16:16<faheem>Maulkin: what's a fast way to verify my passphrase?
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16:17<Maulkin>faheem: echo "foo" | gpg --clearsign
16:17<faheem>Maulkin: ok
16:17<faheem>Thanks. Trying that now.
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16:27<jakllsch>where can i get iceweasel 24 debs for wheezy?
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16:27<jakllsch>the debs seem to have disappeared from security.debian.org
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16:28<roberth1990_>jakllsch: issues with 31?
16:28<jakllsch>roberth1990_: yes, it looks like chrom(e|ium)
16:29-!-ottah [~ottah@c-50-155-254-194.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #debian
16:29<roberth1990_>jakllsch: running an old version is unwise, because of security
16:29<jakllsch>like i don't already know that
16:29<Xylon>jakllsch, press F10 and you get a usable menu bar back
16:29-!-Tessa [~quassel@host-78-144-67-55.as13285.net] has joined #debian
16:29<jakllsch>Xylon: it doesn't stay that way
16:30<roberth1990_>jakllsch: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/classicthemerestorer/ tried this one?
16:30<jakllsch>roberth1990_: unacceptable
16:30<jakllsch>it's not maintained my Mozilla
16:30<Compizfox>so?
16:30<Compizfox>your old Iceweasel/Firefox isn´t maintained any longer either
16:31<Xylon>OMG that is the greatest mode ever, why did noone tell me about it before
16:31<rdm>jakllsch: go in view-> tool bar -> menu bar, or something like that
16:31<rdm>the menu bar will be shown all the time
16:31<Xylon>rdm: OMG!
16:31<Xylon>why did nobody tell me these things!
16:31<Xylon>Ice might actually be decent again!
16:31<Compizfox>I don´t see the problem in the first place :P
16:32<roberth1990_>these things were all over the internet when the first firefox with australis was released
16:32<jakllsch>look, i just want 24. do the debs still exist?
16:32-!-moorec [~moorec@166.175.186.96] has joined #debian
16:32<Xylon>yes but of course I did not see them because I was using old debian version at the time
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16:33<Xylon>now i just need to find a way to make Firefox for android halfway usable
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16:34<Xylon>OMG having a permanent menu bar is so retro and awesome
16:34<Xylon>it's like a different ice
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16:34<musca>iceweasel 24 also doesn't look like firefox 3.0. how could you survive so long?
16:34<faheem>s there a gpg frontend I can cut and paste possible passphrases into? easier than typing them manually.
16:34<faheem>s -> is
16:34<Xylon>Now I can actually find everything
16:34<roberth1990_>musca: he didnt upgrade untill now?
16:34<Compizfox>I agree with musca.
16:35<jakllsch>musca: i somehow managed
16:35<Tessa>seamonkey still has a permanent menu bar
16:35<Compizfox>jakllsch: I just find it unconceivable that you want such an old version, just for the menu bar
16:35<jakllsch>i've been using firefox since 1.0. i wish i was still using it
16:35<jakllsch>Compizfox: well, it's also for consistency with my other machines
16:35<jakllsch>i'm running firefox 24 on my netbsd machines
16:35<Compizfox>especially when you can get the menu bar in the latest version just fine. Don´t you need things like html5 playback in YouTube and all those other things FF24 doesn´t have?
16:36<SynrG>ah, so all your machines are begging to be compromised.
16:36<Compizfox>hehe
16:36<roberth1990_>:P
16:36<jakllsch>*headdesk*
16:36<jakllsch>yes, there are tradeoffs. but it's my sanity or my security and i'm choosing my sanity
16:37<rdm>hahahaha
16:37<SynrG>!snapshots
16:37<dpkg>http://snapshot.debian.org/ is an archive of almost all Debian packages uploaded since 2005, including those removed from the official archives because they were very buggy, unusable, broken, vulnerable or in some way non-free. This service replaces snapshot.debian.net. http://www.debian.org/News/2010/20100412
16:37<SynrG>but it's your own funeral
16:37<roberth1990_>you will loose your sanity when someone breaks into your system and steal sensitive information
16:37<ryouma>and who will he loose it upon?
16:37<Xylon>OK jakllsch, here you go, FF 1: http://www.oldversion.com/linux/firefox-1-0-8
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16:38<roberth1990_>ryouma: loose it upon getting has bank account emptied for example, or people order and sends the bill to him
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16:39<jakllsch>SynrG: thanks
16:39<SynrG>jakllsch: also, falling back to older versions of software may entail installing older libraries
16:39<SynrG>jakllsch: potentially breaking other software on your system
16:39<SynrG>ultimately, nobody will want to support you if-and-when that happens
16:39<roberth1990_>I think jakllsch should use a source based distro
16:39<Xylon>jakllsch, what you are doing is basically the worst thing imaginable
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16:41<SkySkimmer>37 still has the menu bar, what are you talking about http://a.pomf.se/bsmkuo.png
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16:42<Xylon>SkySkimmer, It didn't before I checked View > Toolbars > Menu Bar
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16:43<Xylon>SkySkimmer, I have been using menu bar-less Ice for years because I didn't know I could re-enable it
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16:43<roberth1990_>sorry but haha
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17:08<alexetc>where could i find a tut to install kernel 4.0 ?
17:09<somiaj>alexetc: you will have to compile it yourself unless you wait.
17:09<somiaj>alexetc: if you are running wheezy only solution is compile it yourself, the 3.16 will probably be the last kernel backported to it. If you run jessie, once things calm down after the release, new kernels will be avaiable via backports.
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17:10<alexetc>using jessie, i guess i can wait then
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17:11<somiaj>,kernels
17:11<judd>Available kernel versions are: experimental: 3.19.0-trunk-686-pae (3.19.3-1~exp1); sid: 3.16.0-4-686-pae (3.16.7-ckt9-2); stretch: 3.16.0-4-686-pae (3.16.7-ckt9-2); jessie: 3.16.0-4-686-pae (3.16.7-ckt9-2); wheezy-backports: 3.16.0-0.bpo.4-686-pae (3.16.7-ckt7-1~bpo70+1); wheezy: 3.2.0-4-686-pae (3.2.65-1+deb7u2); squeeze-backports: 3.2.0-0.bpo.4-686-pae (3.2.65-1+deb7u2~bpo60+1); squeeze:
17:11<judd>2.6.32-5-686 (2.6.32-48squeeze6)
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17:11<somiaj>alexetc: I expect 3.19 to be available probabaly fairly soon, not sure how the transition to 4.0 is, I haven't followed the kernel development in a long time
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17:12<somiaj>but my guess is a month or so, the newer 4.0 kernel will be in testing, and after it gets to testing it will be backported shortly after.
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17:13<alexetc>thanks for the info
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17:19<somiaj>hmm, just noticed that jessie isn't using a kenrel considered 'longterm' by kernel.org. Kinda suprised by that.
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17:21<AndroUser>Hi, I am new here. How can I contribute with Linux kernel?
17:21-!-Manlord [~manuel@151.158.116.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Quit: Manlord]
17:22<somiaj>AndroUser: maybe ask in ##kernel on irc.freenode.net -- this is more a support channel for debian, I would look for a place more specific to the linux kernel. Might also find some info on kernel.org
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17:24<jelly>AndroUser: eh
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17:25<jelly>kernelnewbies resources might have been useful there
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17:25<chris_se>somiaj, but the ubuntu guys are supporting the 3.16 series for most of the time jessie will be supported (hence the -ckt name; ckt == canonical kernel team)
17:26<chris_se>so even though it's not an official lts kernel, it's still supported
17:27<chris_se>(and I've been using it for quite some time now: both the one in wheezy-backports and the one in jessie - and it really does qualify as a nice stable kernel imho)
17:27<chris_se>and once jessie is released, there'll probably be newer kernels in jessie-backports, so if you really need a newer one, that'd be your avenue
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17:38<jhutchins>I thought they were going to use systemd for the kernel?
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17:39<soundconjurer>systemd is not the kernel. It is the software that initializes services.
17:39<faheem>Hi. I'm headed to a release party, probably. While there, I'll probably try to get my key signed. But I'm unsure what documents to carry. Any Indians here who could advise me? I tried #debian-in on freenode, but nobody was there. suggestions? Also emailed the Debian Indian ml.
17:39<faheem>Indian -> India
17:41<f-a>faheem: usually a, mh, reputable ID (passport, etc.)
17:41<devil>faheem: usualy you need 2 documents that state your identity plus a printout of your key
17:41<f-a>plus of course your key signature and your key lenght (don't forget key length)
17:41<devil>right
17:42<faheem>f-a: i could take a passport. but I'd rather not.
17:42<faheem>mh?
17:42-!-KingOfDos [~irssi@ht1.nl.eu.kingofdos.net] has quit [Server closed connection]
17:42<faheem>I was wondering if a PAN card would be sufficient.
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17:42<f-a>faheem: how would they verify you then
17:42<chris_se>faheem, don't know anything about india, but if driver's licenses are considered not too easy to fake and you happen to have one, you could take that
17:43<faheem>chris_se: I've got a US drivers license. Might still be valid. But no Indian one. Have a passport.
17:43<chris_se>US driver's license probably depends on from which state it is
17:43<faheem>Would prefer not to carry it.
17:43<faheem>chris_se: with respect to what?
17:44<chris_se>with respect to whether it's easy to fake - and thus be trusted to identify you
17:44-!-scientes [~scientes@69.7.36.52] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:44<chris_se>otherwise: in the end it depends on the people who maybe sign your key whether they accept the documentation you bring
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17:45<faheem>chris_se: well, it is an NC drivers license. Valid till Aug this year.
17:45<f-a>faheem: if carrying is risky, use something like this http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Stealth-anti-theft-wallet-Travel-Ultra-thin-Close-fitting-Hidden-Pockets-outdoor-Documents-Bag/1959629842.html
17:45<f-a>(inside your clothes, of course)
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17:45<derobert>faheem: how many people you're meeting are going to have any clue how to verify a North Carolina driver's license?
17:45<f-a>yeah
17:46-!-fike [~fike@186.214.24.133] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
17:46<faheem>derobert: no idea.
17:46-!-BlinkingYellowFace [~bd1a98bd@redenorte.net] has quit []
17:46<faheem>f-a: thanks for the tip.
17:47<chris_se>as I said: in the end it depends on whether the people potentially signing your key trust the documents you bring
17:47<faheem>chris_se: yes, I see.
17:47<sunbird>faheem: yeah, it just really varies person-to-person. no one is expected to be able to forensically verify the person's identity documnents. :)
17:47-!-irc030 [~maxwell@net-2-40-161-25.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #debian
17:47<faheem>sunbird: this is an individual thing, then? I guess the safe thing would be to take my passport. sigh.
17:48-!-mode/#debian [+l 807] by debhelper
17:48<sunbird>faheem: many do prefer passports.
17:48<chris_se>me, living in europe, would probably not accept an NC driver's license because I don't know how they look like and what to look out for (but a passport from india: sure, I've seen those before)
17:48-!-d1na [~dindin@2a02:580:b21c:5100:c8c6:33e:6a27:e35] has joined #debian
17:48<faheem>sunbird: understandably.
17:48<sunbird>(although they can also be forged)
17:48<faheem>sunbird: what, passports?
17:48-!-id34568 [~quassel@net-2-40-161-25.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #debian
17:48<f-a>faheem: yeah, different people have different standards
17:48<f-a>but passport is a golden rule
17:48<faheem>f-a: ok
17:48<chris_se>ANY offline document can be forged ;)
17:48<chris_se>the question is just how difficult it is
17:48<faheem>they should have gpg signed passports.
17:48*sunbird nods
17:49<chris_se>I don't think keysigning is something that can easily protect against professional spies
17:49<chris_se>(otherwise you'd never trust anybody)
17:49<irc030>\whois id34568
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17:49<faheem>f-a: i've actually already got a fanny pack thingy.
17:50<f-a>\o/
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17:50<faheem>if that is still what they call them these days.
17:50<faheem>I don't see anyone else with them here, but I like 'em.
17:50<f-a>I don't know the name in english, but they are pretty secure, yeah!
17:50-!-TonyL [~Tony@2400:6180:0:d0::37:b001] has quit [Server closed connection]
17:50<faheem>f-a: per your link above
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17:52<faheem>I pinged #debian-in here (OFTC) but no reply. I guess 3.20 am IST isn't the best time to try to talk to Indians.
17:52<fire|bird>fanny pack is the name for them still, where I am anyway that's always been the name for them (midwest USA)
17:52<fire|bird>stores call them that, etc.
17:52<faheem>fire|bird: well, there are probably more formal names. :-)
17:52<fire|bird>faheem, probably, but who can help but to call them fanny packs ;)
17:52-!-proan [~proan@2601:e:1780:5a6:d8ad:e92e:8600:2d26] has joined #debian
17:53<faheem>they don't call them that here.
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17:53*f-a is frying to get his paws on the release
17:53<soundconjurer>I see they took out the easy two click contrib and non-free repo for synaptic.
17:53<faheem>still wondering if I should upgrade.
17:54<soundconjurer>In Debian 8
17:54<chris_se>f-a, well, I've been using jessie for a couple of months now ;-)
17:54<chris_se>soundconjurer, use expert mode in the installer
17:54<faheem>no horrible systemd breakage then?
17:54<f-a>chris_se: I woved loyalty to stable xD
17:54<devil>faheem: why would it break?
17:55<soundconjurer>systemd has been really quite nice.
17:55-!-MadEgg [~eggie@2001:610:600:8966:48d7:5a6a:632f:f32f] has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg]
17:55<soundconjurer>I have enjoyed it.
17:55<faheem>devil: dunno. because it is the spawn of satan? :-)
17:55<sunbird>my current wheezy install is a bit buggy, esp. the sound. so i think i'm going to do a clean install of jessie instead of dist-upgrade.
17:55<devil>faheem: don't believe everything you read
17:55<faheem>devil: i don't, I was just kidding.
17:55<chris_se>faheem, I've been using systemd on jessie for months now and it works just fine
17:56<fire|bird>I don't know what debian tweaked in systemd etc, and I try a fair number of distros now and again, but debian jessie has been the fastest distro I've seen in a while, it's so nice.
17:56<derobert>well, devil has clearly disowned systemd, it seems
17:56<fire|bird>fastest booting distro*
17:56<faheem>chris_se: good to know
17:56<faheem>derobert: :-)
17:56<chris_se>(well, ok, technically I reported like 4 or 5 bugs, of which 2 or so were RC, but they're fixed now ;-))
17:57<faheem>wonder if a clean install is a good idea. upgrades do seem to accumulate cruft.
17:57<soundconjurer>Jessie is very snappy!
17:57<soundconjurer>I love it.
17:57<devil>derobert: been using it for 18 months now - all good. lotsa bugs, but excellent work of the maintainers in #debian-systemd
17:57<derobert>Upgrade should work fine.
17:57-!-Pommesgabel [~Swompie`@2WVAAB2GX.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit []
17:57<derobert>devil: same here, though maybe it's only a year for me.
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17:58<faheem>devil: are you going to stay with stable jessie, or are you one of those people who stays with testing?
17:58<fire|bird>I had stuck jessie on my ssd, but sadly this machine is capping at sata I (no ahci mode, etc.) so it sort of defeats the purpose...
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17:58<devil>faheem: worse. i am an unstable acolyte :P
17:58<faheem>devil: oh, one of those? you like to ride the whirlwind.
17:59<devil>faheem: right
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18:01<faheem>derobert: so, no Debian release party for you?
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18:01<derobert>Not aware of any around DC. And not really a party person anyway...
18:02<faheem>derobert: I guess the Toronto thing isn't an option.
18:03<faheem>I would have expected there to be something around DC. It's a big area.
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18:05<faheem>Anyway, I don't think Debian release parties are the same as regular parties.
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18:07<chris_se>faheem, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_metropolitan_areas_by_population - if you just go by population size, a LOT of areas in that list don't have a release party
18:08<faheem>chris_se: well, the list of release parties is probably incomplete. where is the list again?
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18:08<f-a>many of them are informal I suppose
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18:08<faheem>probably.
18:08<faheem>people can't be bothered to edit wikis
18:08<f-a>like, probably there are a bazillion linux user groups brewing coffee now
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18:09<chris_se>https://wiki.debian.org/ReleasePartyJessie
18:09<faheem>there seem to be less active LUGs than there used to be.
18:09<faheem>back when Free Software was less mainstream.
18:09<faheem>chris_se: thanks
18:10<kwork>what about packages currently in unstable, how was in theory would be to get into jessie ?
18:10<kwork>*update to package
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18:10<faheem>I see the Bombay one is listed, at least.
18:11<kwork>when will the testing freeze will be removed ?
18:11<chris_se>kwork, bugfixes will most likely be accepted for jessie point releases
18:11<faheem>Hmm, the dates on the wiki and the mailing announcement don't agree.
18:11<kwork>https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/etckeeper , needs an update, its broken with my locale :(
18:11<kwork>fixed in latest thou
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18:11<chris_se>kwork, new features will only go into jessie-backports (if somebody cares about it)
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18:12<chris_se>kwork, ask the maintainer nicely to make sure the bug gets fixed in the next jessie point release
18:12<kwork>chris_se: so i would need to backport the patch ?
18:12-!-jmho [~quassel@port-87-193-192-142.static.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:12<kwork>okey
18:12<faheem>yikes, they're having *talks*?
18:12-!-grove [~grove@elmo.3001.dk] has quit [Server closed connection]
18:12<faheem>I thought it was a party!
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18:13<faheem>derobert: See? I rest my case. ^^
18:13<chris_se>kwork, I don't know specifically about your issue, but if it's a bug (and especially if it's broken for certain users), the bugfix for that issue will probably qualify for a jessie point release
18:14<chris_se>but for that to happen, a) the maintainer must prepare a (separate) upload for jessie-pu and ask the release team to accept that and b) the release team must accept it
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18:14<kwork>chris_se: should i make reporty it as bug or just mail the maintainer ?
18:15-!-ziptie [~AndChat10@2.29.200.5] has joined #debian
18:15<chris_se>mail the maintainer and ask them nicely whether they would consider fixing this in jessie - but maybe wait a day or two to let the dust of the release settle ;)
18:15<faheem>derobert: I'm also supposed to buy tickets, apparently. This is one hell of a party.
18:15<kwork>chris_se: okey ty
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18:16<chris_se>faheem, regarding your comment about active LUGs: well, that's kind of always the case once things become mainstream - it's not really something to rally around so much anymore, or have you seen windows user groups (in the same style as linux user groups)? I'm sure you can probably find one here or there, but it's not something that's going to be common
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18:17<faheem>chris_se: true
18:17<soundconjurer>Do I need to add the Jessie updates repo? Or is the main and security enough?
18:18<chris_se>soundconjurer, https://wiki.debian.org/StableUpdates
18:18<chris_se>you decide
18:18<chris_se>(I have it active, but it depends on your use-case.)
18:18<faheem>sunbird: there is the thing that used to be volatile
18:18<faheem>whatever they call it now
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18:20<chris_se>(forget the apt preferences pinning btw. that's only needed if you set Apt::Default-Release, which the installer doesn't)
18:21-!-mlncn [~quassel@172.56.34.176] has joined #debian
18:21<soundconjurer>So I would add contrib and non-free to the existing repo entries and be fine.
18:21<chris_se>if you want to use them: yes
18:22<chris_se>basically: s/main/main contrib non-free/
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18:29<debdeb>Is jessie late?
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18:30<f-a>debdeb: juding from https://identi.ca/debian , the release team is getting there
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18:31<Fanguo>Looks like only arm64 is released so far.
18:31<jpleau>Scroll further down :)
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18:32<Fanguo>Oh, source, powerpc, and armhf too!
18:34<jpleau>(you can scroll down a bit more, you'll discover other surprises!)
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18:38<Fanguo>that's as far down as it scrolled because of noscript
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18:39<jpleau>yes it uses an ajax infinite scroll, no luck I guess if you have javascript disabled =/
18:40<debdeb>death to javascript
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18:42<Fanguo>A-ha! There's definitely no s390x yet! :P
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18:44<triski>jcristau> s390x started
18:45<triski>and is the last set of CDs
18:45<triski>30 to 50 min to finish the s390x
18:45<Fanguo>I just saw mipsel appear in the directory.
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18:56<kwork>i wonder when the torrents appear ?
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18:57<Benjaminhusky>wow,didnt realise this release came with new DE choices
18:57<Benjaminhusky>that is wonderful
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18:59<fire|bird>Benjaminhusky, noticed that myself too, absolutely love that ability to pick what you want.
18:59<Benjaminhusky>yeah,im installing now with MATE,so,we will see how well it goes
19:00<ixi>kwork whenever someone makes one, I guess
19:00<kwork>ixi: would love to seed it as early as possible
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19:01<kwork>not sure wheres the best place to get the iso from
19:01<Benjaminhusky>technically thetre in nothing of that sort
19:01-!-vass [~vass@cpc20-know12-2-0-cust12.17-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
19:01<Benjaminhusky>im just testing
19:02<debdeb>from where did you download jessie?
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19:02<fire|bird>my installs I have here are from the rc3 installer, nothing 'final' out yet.
19:03-!-dvs [~colin@00012127.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:04<soundconjurer>I am finishing up my Debian setup. Absolutely love it so far. Just missed the super simple checkbox for contrib and non-free repos.
19:04<soundconjurer>adding it was fairly easy manually though
19:04-!-ao2 [~ao2@2001:1418:117::1] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
19:05<Benjaminhusky>yeah,in expert it only provides 1 message box to select to have those avaible
19:05<Benjaminhusky>which threw me off at first
19:05<Benjaminhusky>but,still
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19:07*Benjaminhusky bounces excitedly
19:08<sunbird>faheem: yeah, i think that repo is now -updates? https://lists.debian.org/debian-volatile-announce/2012/msg00000.html
19:08<paxmark9>torrenting cd 1 http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/.jessie_release/debian-cd/amd64/
19:08<sunbird>it may also be a hardware issue. :(
19:08<fire|bird>I have one more debian install to do but I'll maybe wait for the final / official media to be announced.
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19:10<Benjaminhusky>just a thing,i would not torrent that image
19:10-!-bdog7 [~bdog7@198.46.192.110] has joined #debian
19:10<Benjaminhusky>it is still technically a testing image,no matter how it looks
19:10<msg7086>Is that the final image?
19:11<Benjaminhusky>no
19:11<Benjaminhusky>i doubt it at least
19:11<fire|bird>assume testing until proven otherwise I'd say
19:11<Benjaminhusky>exactly good sir
19:11<msg7086>hmm i'm thinking about seeding the isos using my server
19:12<Benjaminhusky>Sledge is waiting on the last architecture spec image to be built,then we can release fully
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19:12<bdog7>so are we releasing Jessie this weekend?
19:12<soundconjurer>Yes
19:13<Benjaminhusky>of course
19:13<soundconjurer>Jessie is in the process of being released.
19:13<Benjaminhusky>the last images are being prepared
19:13<bdog7>k, thanks
19:13<Benjaminhusky>just be paitent
19:13<bdog7>Oh i am
19:13<soundconjurer>Totally worth waiting for.
19:13<bdog7>just wondering
19:13<Benjaminhusky>okay
19:15<Benjaminhusky>ugh,i need more RAM for this box
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19:16<fire|bird>only 4G ram in my machines here... more would be nice some day.
19:16<Benjaminhusky>2 here,on Windows *omnious noises*
19:17-!-slav0nic [~slav0nic@python.su] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:17<fire|bird>2 would be miserable I'd imagine
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19:19*f-a lived for a long long time with 512mb on wheezy
19:19<triski>ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian/dists/stable/Release
19:20<triski>now points to Jessie
19:20<triski>:-)
19:20<Fanguo>\o/
19:20<f-a>:O
19:20<f-a>big clap to everyone who contributed to that
19:20<Benjaminhusky>on Windows 2 is miserable
19:20<Benjaminhusky>used to have 4
19:20<Benjaminhusky>ought to go buy a new pair of sticks
19:20<f-a>Benjaminhusky: question is, is the experience miserable because of ram of because of windows :P
19:20-!-sudoman [~oftc-webi@162-224-189-236.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #debian
19:20<triski>yes, big clap to all people involved
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19:21<Benjaminhusky>both,because 2 is not enough for what i want to do,and windows is terrible at memory management
19:22<chris_se>i've run jessie VMs with 256 MiB (no x11 obviously), but that's cutting it very close
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19:23<chris_se>so I recon without x11 you'd probably want at lest 512 MiB, and with X11 probably at least 1 GiB
19:23<msg7086>my jessie server uses some 16MiB after boot
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19:23<faheem>sunbird: yes, volatile is now -updates. I preferred the name volatile. More descriptive.
19:23<kaizoku>no release parties in seattle?
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19:25<fire|bird>Benjaminhusky, my machine can have up to 8, but so far 4 has been a good spot for my needs, and yeah, would imagine 2 on windows would be quite painful....
19:25<sunbird>kaizoku: weather's too nice! :)
19:25<Benjaminhusky>i ran 7.8.0 LXDE on 64MB once in a VM,that was crazy
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19:26<fire|bird>Benjaminhusky, I do actually have a debian box with just 2 actually, and that allows me to play the game I play daily, so that's good (running xfce)
19:26<sunbird>we could set up some sort of mesh network at gasworks. haha.
19:26<somiaj>chris_se: I figured it was supported, if only by debian's security team, I am just surprised because usually it was also lts from kernel.
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19:26<Benjaminhusky>might want to do more indepth testing on this VM soon
19:26<chris_se>somiaj, timing didn't work quite out
19:26<triski>by the way, anyone knows how the jenkins.debian.org virtual machine is configured to have 27 cpus?
19:27<triski>are they all on a real hardware computer with so many processor cores?
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19:27<chris_se>3.14 was a stable branch, but would have been quite old by the time of jessie freeze
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19:28<chris_se>3.18 is the next stable branch, but that was released after the freeze
19:28<chris_se>triski, 27 cpus is not THAT hard
19:29<chris_se>there are server mainboards which can take 4 cpus
19:29<chris_se>take 10-core cpus and you've got yourself 40 real cores
19:29<msg7086>i look forward to have 4.0 on backport
19:29<chris_se>add hyperthreading or such on top of that and you're up to 80
19:30<kaizoku>sunbird: don't speak too soon! remember yesterday? :p
19:30<triski>chris_se, i was thinking that they were set as cluster, and the cpus were not in the same host
19:30<triski>but do now know if any virtualization tech allows that
19:31<triski>not even knew there were cpus with 10 cores :-P
19:31<chris_se>10-core Xeon costs about 2000 USD, so for such a system you'd probably pay ~ 12 - 15 k USD (depending on how much ram you want)
19:31<somiaj>chris_se: yea I was just under a missassumption that stable branches were partly chosen by what branches different distros ended up supporting since there was cross over between kernel devs and the supporters in the major distros. Not worried about it, I trust debian's kernel team.
19:31<chris_se>not cheap, but not completely crazy (not like 1 million usd or so ;))
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19:32<chris_se>triski, I don't know of any other virtualization tech like that either, and I doubt that interconnects between hosts (even if you use fibrechannel or so) would be fast enough
19:32<triski>yes, those machines make sense to be rented in a virtualization
19:32<Fanguo>3.16 has support from Canonical's kernel team for a while
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19:33<somiaj>Fanguo: yea chris_se mentioned that. It was just a cursoity.
19:34<chris_se>consider that memory bandwidth between CPUs and between CPUs and RAM is huge, in the order of Gigabytes / Second
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19:34<triski>s390x build finished
19:34<sunbird>kaizoku: yeah, true.
19:35<triski>all cds available for all architectures :-)
19:35<sunbird>w00t!
19:35<Fanguo>W00t!
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19:35<chris_se>somiaj, yeah, but you also have mobile devices (android and such), which also play a role - and I think 3.14 is used in a lot of mobile devices iirc
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19:37<triski>chris_se, thanks for the clarification, i was looking mad on the net to a explanation on how kvm / xen allowed to have such big virtual machines
19:37<Fanguo>I'm installing jessie on a vm right now so I can see how MATE looks fresh out of the box.
19:37<chris_se>triski, btw. there are x86 cpus out there with 64 cores or so
19:37<chris_se>google Xeon Phi for example
19:37<Fanguo>Crazy.
19:38<soundconjurer>Nice. Last CD and DVD's have been made.
19:38<Fanguo>usually when I see numbers like that it's for mips(el) CPUs
19:38<debdeb>where to download 32-bit ?
19:38<triski>and i am typing on a Atom :_)
19:38-!-prahal___ [~prahal@ARouen-655-1-78-57.w90-22.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: prahal___]
19:38<chris_se>well, my desktop also "only" has 4 cores ;)
19:39<chris_se>(otoh, my smartphone also has 4 cores, so...)
19:39<debdeb>where to download 32-bit ?
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19:40<chris_se>debdeb, unofficially, before the real announcement: http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/.jessie_release/debian-cd/i386/
19:40<Hugo2607>Sorry if this has already been asked a million times, but do we know when the testing repos will be unfrozen?
19:40<debdeb>when will the real announcement be made
19:41-!-octal [~alvarezp@2001:470:d:872:3c89:bd1e:e471:6b98] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:41<debdeb>26th april?
19:41<f-a>debdeb: check the identi.ca timeline, refresh like there is no tomorrow
19:41<chris_se>Hugo2607, probably within the next 48 hours or so? they need to properly release jessie first, you know
19:42<debdeb>why debian chose toy story?
19:42<kaizoku>sunbird: I'll setup a party if you'll show?
19:42<kaizoku>as long as we get 2 people it's worth it
19:42<Fanguo>it sounds like Hugo2607 is eager to install stretch :P
19:42<Hugo2607>:P
19:42*fiberterminal will come to party
19:43<kaizoku>fire|bird: in seattle?
19:43<kaizoku>er, fiberterminal ^
19:43<fiberterminal>Connecticut :(
19:43<Hugo2607>I recently switched to debian and set it to the testing branch and am curious to see if anything breaks when they unfreeze testing.
19:44-!-mskree [~michael@65-128-218-151.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #debian
19:44<kaizoku>I'm on sid Hugo2607
19:44<kaizoku>i don't have too many issues
19:44<debdeb>debian released in 1993, toy story in 1995
19:44<sunbird>kaizoku: i'd love to, but i've got plans. :\
19:44<Hugo2607>kaizoku, I see you like to live, dangerously
19:44<debdeb>"This naming tradition came because Bruce Perens was involved in the early development of Debian while working at Pixar."
19:45-!-fantasma [~fantasma@milano-s02-i02.cg-dialup.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:45<Benjaminhusky>aah,this is perfect,just sitting here doing stuff
19:46<Benjaminhusky>and i could not be happier with this install
19:46<Benjaminhusky>going to port it over to my other VM and be done for the night
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19:47<gone---------->ugh with wheezy my computer was fine, now with jessie (a fresh install via dvd-iso image x64) im getting constant crashes where it looks like a nintendo game when it stops working... my videocard is fine
19:47<gone---------->where would the crashlog be?
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19:51<triski>gone----------, run dmesg to get info on the crash log or -"tail -f /var/log/messages"
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19:52<triski>btw, it was a funny comparison that with the nintendo game crashes
19:52<triski>xD
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19:54<Benjaminhusky>this is so perfect,i cant wait to burn it to a DVD and put it online at my old HS
19:54-!-st3500 [~st3500@ool-18be7921.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: leaving]
19:54<Benjaminhusky>assuming i get the hardware to do that though
19:54<triski>what is an HS?
19:54-!-joachim2 [~joachim@x5d804a00.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:54<Benjaminhusky>highschool
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19:55<gone---------->triski i just have no error message there's other way to describe it lol
19:55<gone---------->:)
19:55-!-jca14349 [~john@65-128-116-119.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #debian
19:55<gone---------->i guess you could compare it to a videocard overheating, but the behavior is always different
19:55<triski>ah, wwas thinking on the shampoo
19:56<somiaj>gone----------: what video card do you use?
19:56<triski>what videocard is yours gone---------- ?
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19:58<triski>and in case the answer is either nvidia or ati, does you install include the closed source driver? :-D
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19:58<somiaj>triski: note gnome in jessie doesn't run on the fglrx driver
19:59-!-fstd [~fstd@xdsl-84-44-225-58.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:59<somiaj>which is what I was trying to check since I know gone---------- is running gnome.
19:59-!-fstd [~fstd@xdsl-81-173-189-215.netcologne.de] has joined #debian
19:59<Compizfox>somiaj: wut?
19:59<Compizfox>why not?
19:59-!-zorbsOne [~zorbs0ne@S0106602ad08d664b.ok.shawcable.net] has joined #debian
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19:59<triski>i know, and also happens with old intel hardware, not works ok with gnome
20:00<somiaj>Compizfox: read the release notes.
20:00-!-finetundra [~james@2602:306:3626:6810:95c1:2588:6302:15fd] has joined #debian
20:00<coruja>it's done
20:00-!-mskree [~michael@65-128-218-151.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:00<somiaj>Compizfox: https://www.debian.org/releases/jessie/amd64/release-notes/ch-information.en.html#gnome-fglrx
20:00<somiaj>scroll up to 5.10 to look at teh requirements for gnome and graphics.
20:00<Compizfox>thx
20:00<Compizfox>wow, that sucks
20:01<finetundra>hey folks, so I hear that jessie is now released as stable and was wondering if it'd be safe to run the upgrade remotely. so, uh, is it?
20:01<Compizfox>Not that I´m affected (I use KDE and have Nvidia), but it´s kind of weird
20:01<Compizfox>so is the radeon driver any good then?
20:01<somiaj>!tell finetundra about wheezy->jessie
20:01<somiaj>finetundra: safe is releative, it depends a lot on what you actually use. It should be safe, but read the release notes for issues to be aware of.
20:02<somiaj>finetundra: also realize that if you are worried about safty, waiting a month or so will have many many more upgrades and more known issues will be documentated.
20:02<finetundra>somiaj, thanks I'll go ahead and have a look
20:02<somiaj>finetundra: but it has been tested and should work.
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20:04<Benjaminhusky>this is aperfect evening,Debian,brownies and podcasting madness
20:05<somiaj>Benjaminhusky: and there is #debian-offtopic if you want to chat about it. (:
20:05<Benjaminhusky>aah,darnit
20:05<Benjaminhusky>forgot about that
20:05<Benjaminhusky>sorry
20:06-!-gfedel [~kropotkin@2804:7f7:d381:464f::3] has joined #debian
20:06<Benjaminhusky>but,on another topic,who already has installed Jessie?
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20:06<somiaj>Benjaminhusky: many have been running it for a while. Have a paticular question about installing/upgrading to jessie?
20:06<Fanguo>I'm installing it right now.
20:07-!-jcoli [~jcoli@189.123.192.9] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:07<Benjaminhusky>good to hear
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20:07<openvc1>Is there a way to check if a mirror has it yet?
20:07<Benjaminhusky>im just waiting for the netinst images so i can save disk space
20:07<Fanguo>They're up now.
20:07<Fanguo>http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/8.0.0/
20:08<somiaj>Any reason you need the netinstall images over dist-upgrading y our current isntall?
20:08<afh>jessie is new stable now? I've been using it for a while now
20:08<Benjaminhusky>i like the netinst
20:08<Benjaminhusky>it is small enough to make me happy
20:09-!-jmic [~jmic@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe73:3caa] has quit [Server closed connection]
20:09<somiaj>Benjaminhusky: but if you are running wheezy, upgrading doesn't require a new install.
20:09-!-kernelcorn [~kernelcor@0001f506.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
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20:09<Benjaminhusky>true
20:09<triski>somiaj, it is recommended to do a apt-get upgrade before dist-upgrade
20:10-!-Guest498 [atlas@ipv6.atlas.sx] has quit [Server closed connection]
20:10<openvc1>Ok time to turn on my Wheezy server.
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20:11<somiaj>triski: I recomend it, it can make your life easier. I think the other recomendations int eh release notes are more importnat (remove any thrid party sources, maybe purge obsolete packages, etc)
20:11-!-openvc1 is now known as robewizardhat
20:11-!-coucouf [~quassel@bdv75-5-82-229-144-98.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:11<somiaj>also if you care about the systemd vs sysvinit you may want to read the info about the upgrade for that.
20:11<triski>yes and doing a backup :-)
20:11<Benjaminhusky>ugh,i just will do a fresh wipe,just what i want to do
20:12<Benjaminhusky>i dont have anything important on that VM anyway
20:12<Benjaminhusky>plus,yeah,strace is simple to install,as are all of the other things
20:12<somiaj>Benjaminhusky: personal choice there, I was just poiting out the cd images are getting nailed right now, if I can get someoen to just upgrade whie they wait, it could be a fun experience.
20:12-!-SneakyBeaky [~MHAS@c83-251-25-58.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #debian
20:13<somiaj>Benjaminhusky: since you don't care, change wheezy to jessie, apt-get update, apt-get distupgrade, if it doesn't work no loss. (:
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20:13<robewizardhat>somiaj: Isn't that what Bittorrent's for?
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20:14<somiaj>robewizardhat: yup, but still takes time for enough of the images to filter around that there are enough seeds to make a difference. Either way, after a week it calms down.
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20:16<SneakyBeaky>Hhello
20:16<Fanguo>Wait, who was trying to get the netinst CD?
20:16-!-gfedel [~kropotkin@2804:7f7:d381:464f::3] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:16<Benjaminhusky>me
20:17<Fanguo>Is the site getting pounded too hard for you to get it right now?
20:17<Benjaminhusky>no,it is perfectly fine
20:17<Benjaminhusky>just couldnt find them
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20:24<robewizardhat>I have sources.list pointed at "stable." dist-upgrade gets no new packages. What?
20:24-!-kspassel [~kspassel@86-41-241-249-dynamic.b-ras2.srl.dublin.eircom.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20:24<Benjaminhusky>just wait,they probalby arent updated where you are pointing just yet
20:25<robewizardhat>It's mirror.steadfast.net
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20:25-!-Yst is "Yst" on #freedombox #debian-offtopic @#Replicant @# #debian @#Libreboot #guardianproject #notnotnotnotnottor @#android-os #moocows #oftc #tor #nottor
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20:26<Benjaminhusky>yeah,it probably isnt updated yet
20:26<themill>robewizardhat: you should use wheezy or jessie in your sources.list, not stable.
20:27<robewizardhat>Why?
20:27-!-pocock [~CGI@2001:1620:b22::2042] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:27<HiTree>robewizardhat: or try http://httpredir.debian.org/
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20:28<mlrds>@robewizardhat that way you control the version --- avoids accidental upgrades
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20:28<msg7086>robewizardhat: because syncing between repository takes time, and on a lot servers stable has not updated to jessie yet
20:29<themill>robewizardhat: because you wake up one day and accidentally break a machine. Upgrading to a new release is something you should do when you've got time for it not when soeone else changes a symlink. (also, if you had 'jessie' there, you could already be running jessie)
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20:38<finetundra>what's the best way to zip a file?
20:38-!-olinuxx-2 [~capturixe@ANancy-653-1-552-169.w92-130.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Quitte]
20:38<themill>!zip
20:38<dpkg>ZIP is a data compression and archive format. The "zip" command can create archives and the "unzip" command can extract. http://www.info-zip.org/
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20:40<finetundra>yeah, still no clue how to use the zip command
20:41<afh>finetundra: man zip
20:42-!-scientes [~scientes@67.136.24.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:42<mlrds>@finetundra: zip name_of_file.zip uncompressed_file.txt
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20:43<chris_se>finetundra, if you run a graphical environment, you might want to check out either xarchiver (gtk), file roller (gnome) or ark (kde)
20:44<msg7086>Is the cdimage.debian.org pretty slow for now?
20:44<HiTree>msg7086: yes. try jigdo or torrent images
20:44<chris_se>probably because everybody who can't wait for the official announcement is currently downloading from there ;)
20:44-!-at0m [~at0m@104.156.228.187] has quit [Quit: !]
20:45<msg7086>i was trying to download the torrent ;) took some minutes to got the file
20:45-!-Hugo2607 [~hugo@109.202.103.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:45<msg7086>i'm currently seeding them on my servers
20:46<HiTree>msg7086: no need to hurry... server is building the index...
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20:47<triski>just use a mirror
20:47<msg7086>happy to see my servers saturated
20:47-!-mwalling [~mwalling@mwalling.noc.oftc.net] has joined #debian
20:47<paxmark9>msg7086 seeding also - have a Tracker gave an error torrent not found, but I am uploading
20:47<finetundra>I still have no clue how to zip a file. Xarchiver seems to be crashing when I try to create an archive and I have no idea how to use the terminal to make the zip
20:48-!-mode/#debian [+l 771] by debhelper
20:48<somiaj>finetundra: do you have to use .zip, I think .tar is a much better archive to use.
20:48<msg7086>paxmark9: the tracker's working for me. try re-announce with it
20:48<finetundra>somiaj, tar is fine
20:48<chris_se>finetundra, as somebody said earlier: zip compressed_file.zip uncompressed_file
20:48<somiaj>finetundra: are you trying to archive a whole directory?
20:48-!-mbock [~user@37.120.63.110] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:48<somiaj>finetundra: or just paticular files in it (whole directory is the easiest)
20:48<chris_se>or with tar: tar -czf compressed_file.tar.gz uncompressed_file
20:48<finetundra>somiaj, I'm trying to compress a folder
20:49<somiaj>finetundra: tar cvzf filename.tar.gz /path/to/directory
20:49<chris_se>ah, for zip you need to use -r then: zip -r compressed_file.zip directory
20:49<somiaj>I like to add 'v' so it shows me what it is doing, but still very similar
20:49<chris_se>for tar it doesn't matter
20:49<msg7086>i'd prefer a relative directory when tarballing
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20:50<somiaj>yea that is probabaly better, listen to msg7086 finetundra, this helps when untaring.
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20:50<msg7086>so: cd /its/parent/directory/; tar czf /home/john/file.tgz directory
20:52<finetundra>msg7086, do I hit return after czf?
20:52<chris_se>no
20:52<msg7086>no
20:52<finetundra>ok
20:52<chris_se>type the command in one line
20:52<finetundra>done
20:52<msg7086>eg.
20:52-!-jca14349 [~john@65-128-116-119.hlrn.qwest.net] has left #debian []
20:52<msg7086>cd /var/www
20:52<msg7086>tar czf ~/backup.tgz website.com
20:53<chris_se>finetundra, if you didn't get an error message and typed in the command properly, you should now have a .tgz file lying around
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20:54<finetundra>I got tar: Cowardly refusing to create an empty archive
20:54<finetundra>Try `tar --help' or `tar --usage' for more information.
20:54-!-linuxuz3r [~linuxuz3r@2602:306:bd2a:a160:f4a2:bb86:58fb:ec40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:54<somiaj>and if you added a 'v' you get a spam of data telling you the name of every compressed file.
20:55<somiaj>finetundra: you must have not given it the path to the directory you wanted to tar correctly.
20:55<finetundra>somiaj, do I have to go to where the folder is located or into the folder?
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20:58<msg7086>finetundra: cd to its parent
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20:58<msg7086>you should be standing out of the directory in order to pack it nicely
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20:59<finetundra>so if the file is under /home/guest/Desktop then I type cd /home/guest/Desktop and not /home/guest/Desktop/folder right?
20:59<chris_se>yes
20:59<msg7086>yup
20:59-!-mlrds [~mlrds@cpe-72-177-245-41.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #debian
21:00<finetundra>ok.
21:00-!-Rastus_Vernon [~rvernon@0001c67d.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
21:00<chris_se>and then you do: tar -cvzf /home/guest/archive.tgz folder
21:00<somiaj>finetundra: this depends on how you want to make the tar, but listen to msg7086, go into the parent directory (this makes the tar nicer in the long run -- it is a subtle difference but important)
21:00<chris_se>replace folder with the name of your folder
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21:01<finetundra>so once there I type tar -cvzf /home/guest/folder.tgz folder yes?
21:01<msg7086>kind of
21:01<msg7086>change the names to your actual case
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21:03<finetundra>awesome, that seems to have done it
21:03<msg7086>congrat
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21:06<redj> /server irc.icq.com
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21:18<antun3s>Hello debhelper
21:18-!-asu [~ever@180.246.219.105] has joined #debian
21:18<antun3s>today is the day of Debian Jessie as stable?
21:18<musca>yes
21:19<antun3s>and now, whats name of debian testing?
21:19-!-phantomski [~phantomsk@97e64a83.skybroadband.com] has joined #debian
21:19<musca>!stretch
21:19<dpkg>The release following Debian 8 "Jessie" is codenamed "Stretch" (the rubber octopus in Toy Story 3) and will be Debian 9. https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2014/11/msg00005.html
21:20<asu>!stretch
21:20<dpkg>The release following Debian 8 "Jessie" is codenamed "Stretch" (the rubber octopus in Toy Story 3) and will be Debian 9. https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2014/11/msg00005.html
21:20<asu>ahihihi
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21:20<musca>it's so easy to make people happy
21:20<antun3s>I thinked the codename is "Zurg"
21:20<antun3s>but, thanks a lot ;D
21:21<antun3s>stretch is more beauty
21:21<msg7086>Zurg? remind me of starcraft
21:21-!-darokthar__ [~darokthar@p57B142B3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:21<msg7086>while that's zerg
21:21-!-awal [~Awal@65.38.86.253] has joined #debian
21:22<antun3s>this link is not found
21:22<antun3s>https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2014/11/msg00005.htm
21:22-!-awal [~Awal@65.38.86.253] has quit []
21:22<msg7086>.html
21:22<antun3s>Ow sorry
21:22-!-awal [~Awal@65.38.86.253] has joined #debian
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21:24<antun3s>ttanks !!
21:24-!-scientes [~scientes@65.101.151.137] has joined #debian
21:25<msg7086>tanks -> no problem
21:25<antun3s>good bye friend
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21:30<soundconjurer>I assume they are updating their links on their website right now?
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21:31<Oovae7ur>I've been using jessie for the last view months and I want to stay on jessie. do I need to do anything? sources.list already points at jessie, not testing.
21:31<Fanguo>Then you're good.
21:31<Oovae7ur>ok, thank you. and a big thank you to all involved in development.
21:32-!-Oovae7ur [~oftc-webi@p5DCF9C3D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit []
21:33<eriberto>Jessie released! \o/
21:34<msg7086>\o/
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21:35<adrian_>exit
21:36<msg7086>you can't
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21:36<adrian_>hahaha
21:37<fire|bird>once you join, there's no turning back! :P
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21:42<Fanguo>jessie+MATE is looking pretty nice
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21:45<dcda>Hi every1
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21:46<msg7086>Hi
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21:49<cooldude_>does colocation service mean i can bring my computer over to the business and plug it in to their internet?
21:49-!-coucouf [~quassel@bdv75-5-82-229-144-98.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #debian
21:49<soundconjurer>So should the links on the Debian website be broken right now?
21:49<msg7086>typically that's for server colocation
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21:51<bdog7>not sure soundconjurer, but I'm finding cdimage.debian.org slow but I guess that is expected now
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22:11<mlrds>does anyone know why debian 7.8 continues to make AAAA IPv6 dns requests, even though IPv6 is disabled at a kernel level?
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22:17<soundconjurer>the links are broken on the site
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22:17<soundconjurer>http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/ use this for now
22:18-!-mode/#debian [+l 751] by debhelper
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22:36<draxdeveloper>hello, i an getting this error: Duplicate sources.list entry http://dl.google.com/linux/chrome/deb/ stable/main amd64 Packages (/var/lib/apt/lists/dl.google.com_linux_chrome_deb_dists_stable_main_binary-amd64_Packages)
22:37<draxdeveloper>how can i correct this?
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22:38<jpleau>draxdeveloper: you must have added the line in /etc/apt/sources.list, and also added a file in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/<chromesomething>, either delete that file or remove the line in /etc/apt/sources.list
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22:40<draxdeveloper>ok
22:40-!-smulverine [~smulverin@42-2-0-171.static.netvigator.com] has joined #debian
22:42<draxdeveloper>ty
22:42-!-octagonsun [~es@70.51.209.33] has joined #debian
22:42<draxdeveloper>i will do a course of linux and shell... need it
22:42<draxdeveloper>there is one in edex
22:42-!-artista_frustrado [~fernando@187.95.116.234] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:43<draxdeveloper>i tried to asking for help and no aswered so i will ask here...
22:44<draxdeveloper>i want to add a bin file in the fav on launcher
22:44-!-Beerbarian [~chatzilla@c-76-127-13-26.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #debian
22:44<draxdeveloper>i dont know if this is the name, the part on bar with kde simbol that i launch apps
22:45-!-xSmurf [~MrSmurf@0001cad2.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:46<draxdeveloper>i use a engine called godot and i use a lot... But it's a engine in .bin, so i want to make a shortcut and put it on the fav so i will have quick access... I tried to google with no avail
22:46-!-danlamanna [~dan@64.237.51.170] has left #debian [PONG :kinetic.oftc.net]
22:49<draxdeveloper>also,,, someone know if there will be a update to resolve a old bug with x and fglrx driver?
22:49-!-simousse [~Simon@111.161.116.151] has joined #debian
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22:52<draxdeveloper>this one: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=762132
22:52-!-eter [~eter@177.193.21.201] has joined #debian
22:52<eter>hello people
22:53<eter>please, someone could explain me why debian 8 was released with 77 "release critical" bugs?
22:53-!-zadkiel [~zadkiel@107-196-229-24.lightspeed.bkfdca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #debian
22:53<draxdeveloper>it's seems that was unsolved on jessie as test... Someone know if it will be resolved in the updates? (also, my repos are jessie... I just need to use apt-get upgrade to get the updates?)
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22:55<msg7086>eter: it's really hard to fix everything
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22:58<eter>I thought that releasing with 0 critical bugs was part of debian philosofy
22:58-!-gfedel [~kropotkin@2804:7f7:d381:464f::3] has joined #debian
22:59<msg7086>not sure though
23:00<draxdeveloper>i heard about this problem... It's seems some excepetion, maybe because they was even making a global launch party?
23:01<draxdeveloper>I would really be sad a release party without a release
23:01<wolley>that's what i was thinking
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23:02<wolley>These will be all-nighter parties i guess
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23:06<draxdeveloper>here in brazil was in a event called flisol
23:06<draxdeveloper>in 3 cities
23:08<draxdeveloper>there is a irc room that i could get help about radeon drivers? i can't find support to my vga anywhere (my vga it's a radeon 25 m230)
23:09<wolley>go to a debian derivative IRC
23:10<draxdeveloper>?
23:10<draxdeveloper>debian derivative?
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23:14<somiaj>eter: I was told that counter doesn't count bugs that have fixes in security.
23:15<somiaj>eter: note even though debian does try to release with 0 rc bugs, over time rc bugs are discovered. This release was trying to be a bit more tiemly than wheezy was. Not sure on the actual call or status of the actual bugs though.
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23:22<draxdeveloper>wolley, what is a debian derivative irc?
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23:25<pabs>hi folks. jessie is out! it would be great if everyone could review https://www.debian.org/ and check if there are any jessie-released strange bits
23:25<pabs>poke me or #debian-www if you find something
23:26<cheapie>A jessie netinst CD can be used to install sid, right? (and do I need to lower the debconf priority to do so?)
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23:28<msg7086>cheapie: they can be upgraded after installation
23:29<somiaj>cheapie: standard instructions are to upgrade a minimial stable install to testing or unstable. I will warn you that testing/unstable can be particularly broken the next few weeks.
23:29<cheapie>msg7086: I know, but I remember there was something I did once that gave me the option to select which version to install.
23:29<gone---------->"http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/How_to_remove_systemd_from_a_Debian_jessie/sid_installation" i ran # apt-get install sysvinit-core sysvinit sysvinit-utils
23:29<gone----------> and rebooted my computer now I'm getting "a problem has occured and the system cant recover. please log out and try again" I tried booting command line by adding "linux" /path splash 3", but I still get the same error.
23:29<msg7086>cheapie: I don't think so
23:30-!-hassoon [~hassoon@197.0.125.119] has joined #debian
23:30<gone---------->-booting by using the
23:30<hassoon>?
23:30<gone---------->linux /boot/vmlinuz-linux root=UUID=978e3e81-8048-4ae1-8a06-aa727458e8ff quiet splash 3
23:30<gone----------> sorry
23:30<cheapie>somiaj: I can see testing being more broken than usual (due to an influx of packages from unstable), but what would make unstable any more unstable around release time?
23:30<paxmark9>cheapie not my choice, but today would be your smallest differential between stable and sid, but it will be a wild ride after the freeze
23:30<cheapie>gone----------: Are you using GNOME?
23:31<gone---------->i have gnome and xfce installed
23:31-!-canvon|silencer [~canvon@p5B0418A6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #debian
23:31<gone---------->gdm3 is the desktop manager
23:31<cheapie>gone----------: I think I heard once that GNOME requires systemd for some obscure reason.
23:31<somiaj>cheapie: many packages have not been uploaded to unstable during teh freeze (/msg dpkg slushy) and either the matainers will now start uploading them, and this is a large enough influx to cause more chaos than normal.
23:31<cheapie>somiaj: Sounds fun.
23:31<gone---------->" GNOME 3 requires systemd to be running to get it working properly, otherwise, you will get broken power management " oh wow you're right
23:31<cheapie>(I have some strange ideas of "fun")
23:32<somiaj>I think you can get away with systemd-shim, but yes gnome has a hard requirement on some parts of systemd.
23:32-!-chitchat [~guest@110-175-52-126.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #debian
23:32<msg7086>what's wrong with systemd
23:32<cheapie>msg7086: Depends on who you ask.
23:33<msg7086>alright
23:33<gone---------->well if i can get back to command prompt i'll install systemd-shim
23:33<gone---------->i'm using grub
23:35<cheapie>gone----------: Try pressing Ctrl+Alt+F1 at the error screen.
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23:36<gone---------->thanks!
23:36<gone---------->"systemd-login[2043] failed to start user service: unknown unit: user@o.service"
23:37<gone---------->should I install systemd-shim?
23:37<wolley>ftp link to debian 8 netinstall anyone?
23:37-!-venuc [~venuc@1.39.13.122] has joined #debian
23:37<cheapie>wolley: What arch?
23:37<wolley>i386
23:37<somiaj>gone----------: yea it is suggested to use systemd-shim for logind
23:37<cheapie>wolley: Here's HTTP: http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/8.0.0/i386/iso-cd/debian-8.0.0-i386-netinst.iso
23:37<wolley>thx!
23:38-!-mode/#debian [+l 757] by debhelper
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23:38<cheapie>wolley: Seems to be accessible over FTP as well./
23:38<cheapie>-/
23:38-!-cooldude_ [~cooldude@50-193-29-43-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #debian
23:38<gone---------->"systemd-shim is already the newest version"
23:38<gone---------->should I just "apt-get remove --purge --auto-remove systemd"?
23:38-!-cooldude_ [~cooldude@50-193-29-43-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:38<cheapie>gone----------: You could always go back to systemd...
23:38-!-cooldude_ [~cooldude@50-193-29-43-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #debian
23:39<gone---------->okay so just "apt-get remove sysvinit-core sysvinit sysvinit-utils" ?
23:39<somiaj>!remove systemd
23:39<dpkg>To use an init system other than systemd in jessie, install the systemd-shim package (for logind) and remove the systemd-sysv package: aptitude install systemd-shim sysvinit-core systemd-sysv-. To stick with sysvinit for wheezy->jessie upgrades, follow the pinning advice in the release notes: http://deb.li/30Kby
23:39<cheapie>gone----------: I'm not exactly sure how this depends/conflicts stuff is set up with those packages, but *probably* not (just) that.
23:40<gone---------->well so far I installed the packages sysvinit-core sysvinit sysvinit-utils
23:40<gone---------->so one way or another with or without systemd i would like to get back into the os :P
23:40<cheapie>gone----------: You need to remove those, but you also need to install systemd.
23:40<cheapie>gone----------: The package appears to be called "systemd".
23:40<somiaj>gone----------: do you have systemd-sysv installed if so remove it?
23:40-!-cooldude_ [~cooldude@50-193-29-43-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:40<gone---------->thanks
23:41<somiaj>that is the bad package, as it changes the link of /bin/init I belive to systemd.
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23:42<cheapie>somiaj: I think gone---------- is attempting to put systemd back now.
23:42<somiaj>cheapie: I think he folloed some outdated advise adn didn't remove the correct packages.
23:43<cheapie>somiaj: OK, if you think you know what you're doing, go ahead. I don't know much about this stuff.
23:43-!-but3k4 [~but3k4@00016a47.user.oftc.net] has quit [Server closed connection]
23:43<gone---------->yeah at this point I "apt-get install sysvinit-core sysvinit sysvinit-utils" and I'm now at the terminal willing to go either direction
23:43-!-but3k4 [~but3k4@2001:470:1f10:12::2] has joined #debian
23:43<somiaj>cheapie: just rember the factoid 'remove systemd', I'm sure we will be poitning that out quite a lot
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23:43<somiaj>gone----------: again make sure you remove systemd-sysv
23:44<soundconjurer>Hmmm.... Seems Asian fonts don't show up correctly
23:44<somiaj>gone----------: this is if youw ant sysvinit
23:44<gone---------->okay i'll do that now
23:44<gone---------->yeah that's what i want
23:44<cheapie>Really, this reminds me way too much of that one time I tried to convert an Ubuntu installation to Debian... that didn't go too well.
23:44<gone---------->so apt-get remove systemd-sysv k
23:44<somiaj>gone----------: correct
23:44<somiaj>gone----------: i'd even --purge it
23:44<gone---------->the package is not installed, so not removed
23:44-!-cooldude_ [~cooldude@50-193-29-43-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:44<gone---------->"systemd-sysv"
23:44-!-cooldude_ [~cooldude@50-193-29-43-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #debian
23:45<gone---------->!package systemd-sysv
23:45<gone---------->maybe it's a typo?
23:45<somiaj>!remove systemd
23:45<dpkg>To use an init system other than systemd in jessie, install the systemd-shim package (for logind) and remove the systemd-sysv package: aptitude install systemd-shim sysvinit-core systemd-sysv-. To stick with sysvinit for wheezy->jessie upgrades, follow the pinning advice in the release notes: http://deb.li/30Kby
23:46<somiaj>gone----------: sounds like you already removed it
23:46<gone---------->k i'll reboot sorry
23:46<somiaj>gone----------: now make sure the corret sysvinit-core and systemd-shim are installed.
23:47<gone---------->how can i view the package information?
23:47-!-gturner [~gturner@zoth-ommog.unzane.com] has quit [Server closed connection]
23:47<somiaj>gone----------: dpkg -l lists all install packages and their state (look at the first two letterS)
23:47<gone---------->thanks
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23:48<soundconjurer>Anyone have an idea how to make Asian characters show up correctly... this worked on Wheezy previously without any tweaking...
23:48-!-arlen [~arlen@jarvis.arlen.io] has quit [Server closed connection]
23:49<somiaj>soundconjurer: show up where? Sounds like a locale or font issue.
23:49-!-arlen [~arlen@jarvis.arlen.io] has joined #debian
23:49<soundconjurer>font issue
23:49<gone---------->sysvinit 2.88dsf-59 amd64 - sysvinit-core 2.88dsf-59 amd64
23:49<somiaj>soundconjurer: I'd look at the different font packages. Not sure which one youa re missing.
23:50<gone---------->systemd 215-17 | systemd-shim 9-1 | systemd-sysv none
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23:50<soundconjurer>I understand typing I have to set up, but Asian characters used to show up without problem before.
23:52<somiaj>soundconjurer: did you do an upgrade or fresh install? What desktop enviroment are you using?
23:52<soundconjurer>Fresh install and Gnome 3
23:53<somiaj>soundconjurer: well I would 1) track down the package that is missing. 2) Wonder if it is now just a suggested package (not installed by default) or maybe it just isn't pulled in with the dependency tree for gnome 3.
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23:56<gone---------->somiaj: http://paste.debian.net/168939 http://paste.debian.net/168940
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23:57<dmb_>test
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23:57<somiaj>gone----------: is it still not working, look at, 'ls -l /bin/init'
23:58-!-Kwen [~PuyoDead@nx-01.tor-exit.network] has joined #debian
23:58<somiaj>gone----------: ls -l /sbin/init
---Logclosed Sun Apr 26 00:00:10 2015