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#debian IRC Logs for 2015-07-27

---Logopened Mon Jul 27 00:00:26 2015
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00:42<medicalwei>!libinput
00:42<medicalwei>dpkg: libinput
00:42<dpkg>medicalwei: I'm not sure, is it larger than a breadbox?
00:43<medicalwei>wonders why xserver-xorg-input-libinput isn't yet in sid (using httpredir.debian.org)
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00:45<twb>medicalwei: rmadison lists it only for sources and amd64 archs
00:45<medicalwei>twb: I am using amd64
00:45<twb>medicalwei: that suggests it's a fresh upload that buildd hasn't built yet
00:45<medicalwei>Ah
00:45<medicalwei>So the only choice is to download it myself?
00:46<twb>Or wait a bit --- assuming my guess is right
00:46<twb>Where "a bit" is probably a day to a week
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00:48<medicalwei>I found I can't even find a download link from ftpmaster.d.o
00:51<twb>medicalwei: I think that's by design to stop users trying to use stuff that hasn't been approved
00:51<medicalwei>twb: okay. trying to build it myself instead :l
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00:58<medicalwei>Actually upstreams can easily choke distros.
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00:59<medicalwei>Assange said, I believe, is to control the software upstream, and introduce security breaches as bugs, and make it undiscovered for years.
01:00<medicalwei>There is almost _nothing_ to do with Debian, unless something goes wrong in the keyring.
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01:31<twb>Ugh, I just noticed inscape in jessie is the same old version from wheezy
01:31<twb>And no backport
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03:27<gour>morning
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03:28<gour>atm i use voidlinux which uses runit system, but considering to move to debian and wonder if systemd is the only practically-supported system on debian these days?
03:29<muep>my impresion is that sysvinit is also fairly practical in jessie
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03:30<twb>gour: debian defaults to systemd as at Debian 8
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03:31<viccuad>guys, why are there packages in main that don't have a -src package associated?
03:31<twb>Oh I misread and assumed your question was the same one you asked in #xfce ;)
03:31<gour>twb: that i know, but is it ppossible (without too much hassle) to use something else?
03:31<twb>viccuad: -src is usually a hack; regular debian source packages are maintained separately
03:32<viccuad>so, normally a package just contains a bin
03:32<muep>gour: the amount of hassle likely depends a bit on what you want to run, but afaik it is possible to use non-systemd init with most software included in jessie
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03:32<gour>muep: thanks
03:32<viccuad>what happens when I do apt -get -b source packagename? where are the sources coming? from a packagename-src always?
03:33<viccuad>s/where/from where
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03:35<gour>i like voidlinux and xbps, but do miss some packages and the community is small, so with debian one mostly finds everything one needs...is this the proper place to ask about debian's packaging system, iow. how to provide debian package?
03:35<jm_>apt-get --print-uris -b source foo will tell you
03:36<gour>is dh recommended these days?
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03:37<twb>gour: for building packages?
03:38<viccuad>what is the difference from a package-src in main and a package in deb-src main?
03:38<jm_>probably a licence
03:39<twb>THe other case would be dkms-type stuff
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03:39<twb>Where debian ships the source because everybody will need a slightly different compiled version
03:39<gour>twb: yes. voidlinux is similar to arch and its pkgbuilds and i submitted few packages. i know that debian is much more strict in this regard, but would like to know at last how to provide package for my own usage
03:39<viccuad>twb: could you elaborate a bit?
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03:41<twb>gour: I like dh, especially for simple packages. Last time I said that, though, people who maintain yukky complicated or slow-to-build packages yelled at me and said I was too dumb to have an opinion
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03:42<gour>twb: hmmm...what would those people expect and/or recommend to use?
03:42<twb>Also I dunno what'll happen after joeyh did his thing
03:42<twb>gour: cdbs, or by hand
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03:43<twb>gour: also #debian-mentors for packaging discussion
03:44<gour>twb: hmm, by looking at 'debian packaging tutorial' (v0.15), has only 18% share
03:44<gour>twb: i'm in mentor channel, but was not sure whether it's suitable for someone just starting and not looking for a official mentor
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03:45<twb>gour: that's a better place for general packaging discussion - so people with just plain user issues can get answered here
03:45<twb>(IMO)
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03:45<gour>ok, ta
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03:48<namo>helloooo
03:49<twb>namo: hi, how can we help?
03:50<namo>sorry, first time on IRC haha still trying to figure it out. didnt mean to disturb.
03:52<twb>No problem
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04:02<AndrewMock>Why is there no ffmpeg package for jessie?
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04:03<AndrewMock>I thought Debian is back on the main ffmpeg wagon
04:03<twb>AndrewMock: isn't it called libav in jessie?
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04:03<AndrewMock>https://lwn.net/Articles/650816/
04:04<AndrewMock>Was on the front page of HackerNews
04:04<twb>Yes but that happened after jessie was release
04:04<AndrewMock>so debian 9?
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04:06<jm_>yes
04:06<konp> /filter add joinquit * irc_join,irc_part,irc_quit *
04:07<konp>sorry for that
04:07<gour>in the past i was using sid as kind of debian's rolling-distro, is it still more-or-less stable as it used to be? (my policy was, however, not to update daily)=
04:08<twb>I heard some people recommending aptosid for that. I usually just use testing and cherry-pick from unstable if I'm desperate.
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04:35<babilen>gour: I happily run it. If you keep a few things in mind you'll be fine. Among them: Don't upgrade if you have work to do. Install apt-listbugs and configure it to show important bugs too (many bugs are wrongly classified to begin with). Use apt-listchanges to keep track of, well, changes. Try to keep your system as up-to-date as you can and be careful in what you install. It is sometimes better to upgrade
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04:35<babilen> packages individually rather than all ...
04:35-!-YvorL [~YvorL@catv-89-134-185-94.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #debian
04:36<babilen>... of them together as it allows you to easier find the culprit if something goes wrong.
04:36<babilen>dpkg: tell gour -about sid faq
04:37<jm_>and use #debian-next when you get bitten :)
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04:49<gour>babilen: thank you
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04:50<viccuad>guys, How can I autobuild a package from source, and its dependencies, ala gentoo, on debian?
04:50<viccuad>apt-get -b source packagename does not get the dependencies
04:50<jm_>apt-get build-dep does
04:50<twb>NB: you need deb-src enabled for build-dep to work
04:51<twb>Never mind, you MUST already have that,or apt-get -b wouldn't work for you
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04:51<viccuad>true
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04:54<viccuad>mm, but build-dep installs the binaries
04:54<viccuad>is there a way to build the deps from source, too?
04:55<gour>i spent few months with opensuse and liked its zypper package manager. anyone familiar with zypper and apt-get can compare their deps-resolution capabilities?
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04:59<twb>I used zypper for about two days, around SLES11 IIRC. I found it more annoying and inflexible than apt, but 1. it seemed to be improving; and 2. partly my inexperience with it.
04:59<twb>gour: it doesn't really matter tho, because whatever distro you use, you're stuck with its packager
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05:01<gour>twb: i had good experience with it, but was annoyed with opensuse's repos...iow, one has to use packman for multi-media stuff, then problems with branding etc. moreover, too many automated things which are annoying and experienced bug with recognizing ps-printer in cups which was unsolved for more than two months...anyway, i believe that apt-get is finest choice
05:01*gour is going to install testing snapshot on his netbook...
05:02<gour>(along with xfce, of course)
05:02<twb>I think Debian's quality owes more to the Debian Policy than it does to apt's technical infrastructure.
05:02<gour>well, let's judge by final result :-)
05:03<gour>i never really dived into rpm nor used fedora...and after spending with both gentoo & arch >5yrs each, now i want something more stable...even sid was above those
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05:42<mSherlock>Hi, im using efibootmgr and im wondering what config file does it edit? would anyone have any Ideas?
05:45<twb>mSherlock: does it store the config inside EFI nvram?
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05:49<jm_>why do you think it edits any config files?
05:50<mSherlock>maybe it doesnt ? im looking into EFI nvram now
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05:51<mSherlock>but surely it has to store the config somewhere
05:51<mSherlock>it has to be pulled from somewhere ?
05:51<jm_>efi variables
05:52<jm_>they are exported in /sys somewhere
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05:54<twb>It says exactly that in the manpage, which is what I read
05:54<twb><obligatory pining for IEEE 1275>
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05:55<jm_>ahh indeed, including the path to /sys stuff
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05:56<mSherlock> think it could be close to /sys/firmware/efi/vars
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06:01<mSherlock>we dont have efi nvram
06:02<mSherlock>so it must be through /sys?
06:06<jm_>who is we?
06:06<mSherlock>well me and the other guy working on this
06:09<jm_>kernel manages that, efibootmgr just writes to afile
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06:10<mSherlock>how would i go about finding that file ?
06:11<petn-randall>mSherlock: Let's step back a little; what are you trying to achieve?
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06:12<mSherlock>i was asked to find out more about efibootmgr, and specifically what config file does it edit?
06:12<jm_>maybe this is not the right channel then
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06:12<mSherlock>ok
06:13<petn-randall>mSherlock: You can always run it with strace to find out which /proc files it touches.
06:13<jm_>and if you want to look deeper, it uses libefivar
06:16<mSherlock>thanks for the help!
06:16<mSherlock>will do
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07:03<ColombianAustralian>hi there...I got a question in regards to a USB external hard disk...How can I check if it is even detected by my system?
07:03<jm_>kernel adds new messages to dmesg when a new usb device is connected
07:03<musca>dmesg | tail -n 20
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07:04<ColombianAustralian>ok..give me a second please...I will paste the output here
07:04<jm_>no, use the paste site -- /msg dpkg paste
07:04<musca>!nopaste
07:04<dpkg>nopaste is a command-line tool to send data to a <pastebin>. To paste e.g. your sources.list do "aptitude install libapp-nopaste-perl; nopaste /etc/apt/sources.list"; to paste the output of a program do e.g. "dmesg | nopaste".
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07:05<musca>sorry dpkg
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07:05<ColombianAustralian>mm it did not even output anything related to USB....
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07:05<jm_>it wasn't because of you, it's regular daily event
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07:09<m2k>how to solve: W: Failed to fetch http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/dists/stable/Release
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07:15<Brigo>m2k, do you have internet connection?
07:15<m2k>Bringo, yes
07:16<Brigo>did you edit /etc/apt/source.list file?
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07:17<m2k>Bringo, no, can you help me with it, what do I need to do?
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07:19<Brigo>m2k, with what command do you get that error? can you paste the whole output in paste.debian.net?
07:20<m2k>with sudp apt-get update
07:21<jm_>can you wget the file?
07:22<m2k>Bringo, I mean sudp apt-get update
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07:23<m2k>Bringo, see http://paste.debian.net/286502/
07:25<jm_>you must be using some kind of proxy
07:25<jm_>ahh no that's just some lenny repository
07:26<jm_>anyway, try to wget the Release files manually
07:26<Brigo>m2k, Brigo, not Bringo.
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07:28<m2k>Ok, Brigo
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07:33<babylon>hi - could someone help me with anacron? i would like anacron to daily try to update non free flash plugin with command update-flashplugin-nonfree --install
07:33<babylon>what should I add in /etc/anacrontab ?
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07:34<babylon>preferably it should start each update attempt like 10 minutes after booting debian
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07:35<jm_>you don't need anacron for that, regular cron support @reboot
07:36<m2k>Synaptic also does not want to update, see: http://paste.debian.net/286503/
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07:43<babylon>jm_: can you give me the line you added in your crontab as I tried with @reboot and it was a no go
07:43<babylon>the whole thing confuses me honestly
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07:45<jm_>babylon: I don't use it, I just know it supports it and I know I see it in logs, for example my last boot: May 6 08:44:05 host /usr/sbin/cron[3185]: (CRON) INFO (Running @reboot jobs)
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08:41<ziggyfish>does anyone know how to solve this FTP error: 500 OOPS: prctl PR_SET_SECCOMP failed
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08:42<petn-randall>ziggyfish: Can you deliver more context?
08:42<petn-randall>!ask
08:42<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
08:43<ziggyfish>I am trying to install vsftpd on ubuntu. I tried to connect to it and it says 500 OOPS: prctl PR_SET_SECCOMP failed
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08:43<ziggyfish>i tried seccomp_sandbox=no , however I still can't log in
08:44<ziggyfish>is there a dependancy I need to install?
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08:45<ziggyfish>I am running version ubuntu 14.04
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08:46<petn-randall>ziggyfish: Ubuntu's channel is elsewhere, we only support Debian in here.
08:46<petn-randall>!ubuntu
08:46<dpkg>Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian. Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu on chat.freenode.net instead. Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian. See also <based on debian> and <ubuntuirc>.
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09:23<D->Every time I boot Debian I get http://pastebin.com/4t7wkfcm . Is the firmware part and issue? Or the kvm part?
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09:29<viccuad>guys, how can I know the number of metapackages debian has?
09:29<gruetzkopf>hey, i've just had exim4 send a mail to too many users. i have to aliases like a: x,y and b: x,y,z. an email for alias a got sent to all of b, the maillog says a for all users in a and b for the rest
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09:30<gruetzkopf>is there any ordering to /etc/aliases that i need to observe?
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09:39<viccuad>Guys, what is a virtual packag
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09:51<viccuad>Does anyone know how can I obtain the number of Debian packages, minus -src, -dev, virtual and metapackages? thanks in advance
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10:56<angelo>usa BuDuScRiPt [ http://digilander.libero.it/udasoft/Software/Linux/buduscript ]
10:56<angelo>Version 3.7.86
10:56<angelo>By U D A ' S o f t w a r e
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10:57<markybob>where's an abrotman when you need him? ;)
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11:14<richie_>hey i get bash: aptitude:command not found when i want to search for an appplication
11:14<zeromon>did somebody understand the concept of Ubuntu Sanppy core??? I never understand what new innovations are!
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11:15<medicalwei>dpkg: ubuntu
11:15<dpkg>Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian. Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu on chat.freenode.net instead. Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian. See also <based on debian> and <ubuntuirc>.
11:15<zeromon>medicalwei: Don't worry I know what the Ubuntu is... It was general question.
11:15<medicalwei>but basically, snappy core goes away from Debian and makes us a question that it is going away from Debian
11:16<richie_>i use debian and i get the message bash:aptitude: command not found please help thanks
11:16<zeromon>medicalwei: I will never use snappy, because the concept is weird... But, I would understand what the difference is
11:16<medicalwei>It puts all necessary runtime libraries and binaries into a package, and run it like containers.
11:17<zeromon>medicalwei: Indeed, it is a stupid idea.
11:17-!-L0rD` [~anon@0001f895.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: L0rD`]
11:17<medicalwei>zeromon, A person (maybe a friend) say it is necessary for their ubuntu phone base system
11:17<medicalwei>(he's working in canonical)
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11:18<zeromon>medicalwei: thanks for sharing real information.Then I understand it
11:18<mtn>richie_, so install aptitude?
11:18<medicalwei>richie_, install aptitude with apt or apt-get
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11:19<musca>or adjust the path?
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11:22<richie_>@medicalwei it is a virtual machine and this never happened before usually it has aptitude already installed
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11:23<richie_>thanks for the help medical its all under control thanks
11:23<medicalwei>richie_, if you build the environment with lxc-something, which uses debootstrap
11:24<medicalwei>then it will not have aptitude installed
11:24<medicalwei>so does typical ubuntu btw
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11:29<richie_>hey medicalwei im new to all this would you care to explain that would be helpful thanks
11:30<medicalwei>richie_, debootstrap gives you a minimal environment that can install debian packages
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11:34<richie_>gotcha thanks for the heads up medical
11:34<medicalwei>richie_, your pleasure :)
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11:58<angelo>ATTENZIONE: Non e' stata intercettata la versione originale di lynx.
11:58<angelo>Questo script e' in grado di funzionare sono con lynx e non links2.
11:59<petn-randall>!it
11:59<dpkg>Ciao, vai su #debian-it per ricevere aiuto in italiano. Italian Speakers: Please use #debian-it, there you will get much more help.
11:59<petn-randall>angelo: ^^^^
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12:04<medicalwei>how could i request a change of dpkg answer?
12:05-!-zakh [~zakh@ool-45789ccc.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #debian
12:05<zakh>Looking for a simple way to connect to WEP wifi on a fresh install. I'm on testing
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12:06<medicalwei>zakh, what wifi interface are you using?
12:06-!-ll461 [ll461@pip.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk] has joined #debian
12:06<zakh>its called wsl3
12:07<markybob>medicalwei, unless things have changed (i haven't spent any real time in here in 10 years), you can do /msg dpkg x is foo
12:07<zakh> wls3 excuseme
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12:09<medicalwei>markybob, i got but x is something else
12:10<medicalwei>zakh, if you have experience with debian on the laptop before, you should know if it needs non-free firmware to use wls3 (i don't actually)
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12:10<markybob>medicalwei, i recall being able to do "x is also y"...but you might wanna wait for someone who's been here more recently
12:11<zakh>i connected to wifi during installation so I have the firmware
12:11<zakh>I just need to know how to do it from command line
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12:12<medicalwei>dpkg: zh
12:12<dpkg>zh is probably 如果您想要以中文得到 Debian 相關的協助,請加入本伺服器上的 #dot 頻道,加入方法為在輸入框中輸入 /join #dot,謝謝您的合作!
12:12<medicalwei>ok
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12:12<medicalwei>since #debian-zh is quite peopleless
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12:13<medicalwei>markybob, it was "no, x is ……"
12:13<ll461>I'm trying to set the right (English UK) xorg keyboard layout on my Dell laptop (XPS 13), but even though localectl says my layout is 'gb', it's not
12:13<markybob>medicalwei, then i don't know. been gone too long. sorry :/
12:13<musca>medicalwei: did you check that channel on freenode?
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12:13<ll461>the layout in console is totally correct, meanwhile
12:13<medicalwei>musca, i am on #dot, and i checked #debian-zh
12:14<ll461>how do I troubleshoot this?
12:14-!-Blacker47 [~Blacker47@00014f22.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
12:14<musca>the dpkg bot sends the same answers also on freenode.net
12:14<medicalwei>Ah
12:15<medicalwei>Didn't check that. Where's dpkg also on?
12:15<ll461>https://paste.debian.net/286594/ < current settings
12:15<musca>medicalwei: i don't know
12:16<medicalwei>musca, well #dot on freenode is also a channel indicating user to connect to oftc server
12:17-!-gfedel [~gfedel@186.214.77.240] has joined #debian
12:17<medicalwei>"We are moved, please connect to irc.debian.org, and also on #dot"
12:17<musca>ok.
12:18<medicalwei>Can dpkg answer according to the server it connects to?
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12:58<lostson_>has anyone noticed since the latest kernel update that wireless will not stay connected I am seeing this issue on both of my Jessie Gnome laptops but all other devices stay connected just fine
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13:01<debo>lostson: I'm on 4.0.8-2 with no noticable problems.
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13:06<lostson>debo I am just using the default 3.16.0-4-686-pae #1 SMP Debian 3.16.7-ckt11-1+deb8u2 (2015-07-17) i686 GNU/Linux
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13:14<babylon>lostson: i have same kernel from default Jessie repositories and do not experience any wireless issues
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13:15<babylon>are you using latest backported wireless drivers?
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13:33<pajaro>how can i disable usb autosuspend for a particular device?
13:33<pajaro>all i can find is how to set it systemwide
13:34<pajaro>or changing it live cating to /sys/bus/usb/devices/1-1.2.2/power/autosuspend
13:34<pajaro>but thats not persistant :S
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13:38<zeromon>dpg:ubuntu
13:38<zeromon>dpkg:ubuntu
13:38<dpkg>Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian. Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu on chat.freenode.net instead. Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian. See also <based on debian> and <ubuntuirc>.
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15:16<petn-randall>Hi, I'm trying to debug delays while logging in via SSH. I've tried the usual culprits, deactivating reverse lookups (UseDNS no), and disabling GSSAPI authentication. However, the delay (13-25 seconds) still persists.
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15:16<petn-randall>client is on testing, server is a jessie installation
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15:16<Brigo>petn-randall, did you try vervose mode?
15:16<petn-randall>ssh -v hangs at "debug1: Entering interactive session."
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15:18<petn-randall>Full log is at http://paste.debian.net/hidden/b79a42dc/
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15:18<Brigo>petn-randall, may be this? http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/10543/ssh-slow-at-starting-session
15:18<petn-randall>on the server side I don't see anything logged.
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15:19<Brigo>and then the weirded thing: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2247782/ssh-example-com-hangs-but-ssh-example-com-bash-i-does-not
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15:21<petn-randall>Brigo: Wow, the "solution" for the last link was stupid. Their router silently dropped packets with ToS flags set?
15:21<petn-randall>Brigo: Still looking into the earlier one.
15:21<Brigo>it looks like. As i said, weird.
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15:25<petn-randall>Brigo: Ah, PAM was the culprit. Disabled that in /etc/sshd/sshd_config, and it worked fine. Your 2nd last link brought me on the right track.
15:25<Brigo>petn-randall, good for you :)
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15:29<tuxcrafter>debootstrap --arch amd64 jessie /mnt/debinst/ http://ftp.uk.debian.org/debian
15:29<tuxcrafter>^how can i make sure systemd is not used with a debootstrap
15:29<tuxcrafter>ceph doenst work with systemd under jessie
15:30-!-squinty [~squinty@S01069cd643d2c8a1.du.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:30<tuxcrafter>so i need init but I want a nice clean install without systemd
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15:34<Brigo>tuxcrafter, check http://www.debianuserforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=3128
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15:37<tuxcrafter>Brigo: i dont know how to do a preeseed with a debootstrap
15:38<tuxcrafter>and by the looks of it is a late command
15:38<tuxcrafter>so after the debootstrap
15:38<tuxcrafter>that is what i am doing right now
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15:41<tuxcrafter>i guess what i want is not possible yet
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16:08<viccuad_>why are there so many linux-image-* packages for the architectures, why not get them all together by version, as normal packages?
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16:10<valdyn>viccuad_: its 4 on i386
16:11<valdyn>viccuad_: nvm, its just 3
16:12<viccuad_>valdyn: https://packages.debian.org/search?suite=sid§ion=all&arch=any&searchon=names&keywords=linux-image
16:13<viccuad_>valdyn: sry, this one: 100 packages. https://packages.debian.org/search?suite=all&arch=any&searchon=names&keywords=linux-image
16:13<valdyn>viccuad_: thats showing the m68k packages
16:13<viccuad_>my point is, what is the rationale for having different packages? why not have 1 package and a lot of binaries for each arch as normal packages?
16:13<valdyn>viccuad_: each package is there for a good reason
16:13<viccuad_>for sure there is a reason
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16:14<viccuad_>and that's what I would like to know :)
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16:14<valdyn>viccuad_: both, amiga and atari are m68k, but theres still seperate kernels provided for hardware support
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16:15<valdyn>viccuad_: the choice is not really to merge both into one package
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16:15<valdyn>viccuad_: that would give huge packages for no good reason
16:15<viccuad_>viccuad_: but why? why not have different kernel config for each of them, and only one package? what am I missing?
16:15<viccuad_>valdyn: that's one valid reason
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16:16<valdyn>viccuad_: you could view this as atari being a seperate architecture, which it is in some sense, where it makes more sense to just provide a few explicit packages than to create an entire port
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16:22<viccuad_>valdyn: i don't quite see it yet. eg: cmus, https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=cmus&searchon=names&suite=all§ion=all&sourceid=mozilla-search
16:22<viccuad_>it has a lot of binaries in the same packages, for different architectures
16:23<viccuad_>I don't see how the linux-image-4.0.0 for example couldn't aglutinate the same
16:23<valdyn>viccuad_: umm
16:24<valdyn>viccuad_: all -atari and -amiga *both* are in the m86k port
16:24<viccuad_>just slap a different kernelconfig for each of them and done
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16:24<valdyn>viccuad_: cmus though has only *one* package in the m86k port
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16:25<viccuad_>valdyn: let's forget about atari and amiga, lets look at linux-image-i686 and arm
16:25<valdyn>viccuad_: same deal
16:26<valdyn>viccuad_: -586 is *slow* for everyone, but theres some computers that can only use that one, so there's another, like -686
16:26<valdyn>viccuad_: *all* on the same debian port (i386)
16:26<viccuad_>valdyn: that's why I used the arm example
16:27<valdyn>viccuad_: arm is like amiga, a platform without a unified bios
16:27<valdyn>viccuad_: arm is like m86k, a platform without a unified bios
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16:28<viccuad_>valdyn: yet all those binaries and kernel images are created from the same source, just changing the kernelconfig
16:28<viccuad_>same deal as normal packages, but normal packages have all the archs in only 1 package
16:28<valdyn>viccuad_: no
16:28<valdyn>viccuad_: no
16:28<valdyn>viccuad_: "normal" packages have only *one* binary per debian port
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16:29<viccuad_>valdyn: I don't see it that way. eg: cmus 2.5.0-7+b2: alpha amd64 armel armhf hppa hurd-i386 i386 kfreebsd-amd64 kfreebsd-i386 m68k mips mipsel powerpc ppc64 s390x sparc64 x32
16:29<valdyn>viccuad_: it *is* that way
16:29<valdyn>viccuad_: these are all debian ports
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16:30<viccuad_>In i686 I install the cmus package, in armmp I install the cmus package
16:30<viccuad_>i don't install cmus-i686 and cmus-armmp
16:30<viccuad_>and the source is C
16:30<viccuad_>so it is compiled differently
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16:31<valdyn>viccuad_: how many different cmus packages can you install on i386?
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16:31<viccuad_>one
16:31<valdyn>viccuad_: 1 - because one is enough
16:31<valdyn>viccuad_: how many kernels ?
16:31<viccuad_>I can install multiarch support though
16:31<viccuad_>1
16:31<valdyn>viccuad_: many or a few
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16:31<viccuad_>well, the i386 ones
16:32<valdyn>viccuad_: why many?
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16:32<viccuad_>different number versions, compile options (rt etc)?
16:32<valdyn>viccuad_: different kernel config
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16:32<viccuad_>true
16:32<viccuad_>*yet*
16:33<valdyn>viccuad_: see libc6 and libc6-i686
16:33<viccuad_>I should be able to aglutinate all rt kernels, which the same config, but different arch, on the same package
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16:33<valdyn>viccuad_: yea, of course
16:33<viccuad_>just change the arch option, as every other package
16:33<valdyn>viccuad_: and get a single package that is 500MB sized
16:33<viccuad_>valdyn: no
16:33<viccuad_>installing cmus does not download all archs, either
16:33<viccuad_>just your arch
16:34<viccuad_>so that would apply to kernels too
16:34<valdyn>viccuad_: -amiga and -atari *are* *not* seperate archs
16:34<Astra>anyone educated with icmpv6, especially neighbor discovery and handling of failed neighbor routes?
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16:34<viccuad_>lets forget about amiga and atari, no separate archs, different bit tree, etc
16:34<valdyn>viccuad_: so how do you want anyone to have *both* available on the same arch, in the same package, except by putting both into one package
16:34<viccuad_>lets focus on i686 and arm, which are different archs, as an example
16:35<valdyn>viccuad_: think your idea through please
16:35<valdyn>viccuad_: on i686 you can only have *one* package named linux-image-3.0.0 without anything added
16:35<Astra>garbage collector seems to run only when reaching 128 neighbor entries, if this limit is never reached all the failed entries seem to stay forever and if this is the gateway routing is not possible anymore
16:36<valdyn>viccuad_: same on arm
16:36<Astra>is this a known bug or should it be that way?
16:36<valdyn>viccuad_: so that would give linux-image-3.0.0 and linux-image-3.0.0-(not-allowed-to-use-armmp)
16:36<valdyn>viccuad_: thats very confusing
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16:37<viccuad_>valdyn: I don't see it that way. we would have linux-image-3.0.0, and binaries, as the same packages. Am I really missing something big here?
16:37<valdyn>viccuad_: yea
16:38-!-mode/#debian [+l 710] by debhelper
16:38<valdyn>viccuad_: i386 and arm are 2 seperate debian ports
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16:38<viccuad_>oh god I don't see it, really
16:38<viccuad_>I get that
16:38<valdyn>viccuad_: -i586 and -i686 are not, nor are -arm and -armmp
16:38<viccuad_>fine
16:39<valdyn>viccuad_: so the lists you see at cmus is a list of architectures
16:39<valdyn>viccuad_: so the lists you see at cmus is a list of architectures (=debian ports)
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16:39<valdyn>viccuad_: but sometimes you want *more* than that - multiple variants within one port
16:40<viccuad_>and those variants come from different sources, not only kernel configs
16:40<viccuad_>well, I think I see it now!
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16:40<viccuad_>valdyn++ ! many thanks!
16:40<valdyn>viccuad_: not necessarily different sources, but that is of course possible
16:41<viccuad_>sources as of .fex files, trees, etc
16:41<viccuad_>modules
16:41<valdyn>viccuad_: the source difference is just the kernel config (which is of course source too)
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16:42<viccuad_>hmm.. then, here we are again.. I see the kernel config as build config, not source for the package
16:42<valdyn>viccuad_: its source
16:43<valdyn>viccuad_: telling apart build config from C code makes no sense
16:44<viccuad_>valdyn: well, that's true
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16:53<viccuad_>another silly question: is there a way to find conflicting packages? I can't find any way
16:53<valdyn>viccuad_: you cant find any?
16:53<valdyn>viccuad_: try exim4 and postfix
16:54<valdyn>viccuad_: or the whole list "apt-cache search mail-transport-agent"
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16:54<viccuad_>valdyn: but that's knowing conflicting packages beforehand
16:54<viccuad_>I want a list of all conflicting packages, for example
16:55<valdyn>viccuad_: you may want that, but why would it make sense to want that?
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16:56<viccuad_>hence the silly question part
16:56<valdyn>viccuad_: aptitude can search all the fields, I guess you can use that to query for conflicting packages
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17:24<givemefive922>Hi, how do I disable networking init script in debian Jessie while system is in an offline state. I can remove the symlink in /etc/rcS.d but then it says to run update-rc.d and I'm not sure how to do that offlien
17:24<valdyn>givemefive922: dont remove the symlinks, replace the S* with K*
17:25<givemefive922>valdyn: That seems like all I need to do right
17:26<valdyn>givemefive922: yes
17:26-!-fox9hound [~fox9hound@186.39.224.113] has joined #debian
17:26<givemefive922>thanks
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18:00<zSnake>I know this is probably not the main channel for this type of question, but i'll try after all hours of research i've made so far.. Does anyone know if ASUS Z87-A fully support UEFI version 2.3.1? Or if it's possible to flash bios/uefi to that version?
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18:01<zSnake>Have already tried to contact ASUS myself but their facebook-support has vaccation, and their homepage require a lot of info such as serial no on memories and harddisks etc, i just need to know this simple thing to make a desicion on wheter or not to choose that card for use with hardware encryption with my samsung 850 SSD
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18:03<petn-randall>zSnake: What exactly do you need UEFI 2.3.1 for?
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18:04<zSnake>I have purchased a new ssd, Samsung 850 EVO, and i want to use the built in hardware encryption on it, to avoid performance hit while encrypting (as is a big problem otherwise on ssd:s), but it require uefi 2.3.1 to be fully supported as of what i have researched about it so far
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18:36<mtcjayne>When I run livestreamer on my Debian machine I am told there is no stream at the address, when I run it on my Windows machine it identifies the stream at that address. Would anyone care to confirm my findings?
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18:40<petn-randall>zSnake: If you have a current CPU I'd just use software encryption. Two reasons: 1) Your CPU can do AES way faster than your SSD, it won't be a bottleneck 2) dm-crypt is way more trustworthy than the dodgy Samsung SSD firmware.
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18:41<petn-randall>zSnake: In case you have doubts, search for "Samsung SSD batched trim".
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19:04<zSnake>petn-randall: Thx for your input, i'm kinda new with SSD-encryption. Had to go over to SSD for performance but encryption has always been a problem. Performance hits, trim etc.. And then i found this interesting piece that (at least on paper) allows me to encrypt the SSD with AES-256 without any performance hits at all, and since it's a brand new drive, trim wouldn't be a problem. I have runned
19:04<zSnake>some tests with another SSD (sandforce) and software-encryption (Truecrypt), but the performance-hit was massive
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19:07<zSnake>But i will still agree that i would trust dm-crypt over anything samsung provides. The thing is that this samsung device will be running on a windows server, and that server will host a lot of virtual linux-servers including 3 Debian-boxes (therefore i'm even asking in here), i believe i can encrypt my virtual machines with dm-crypt but i rather go with both hardware-encryption for the psysical
19:07<zSnake>server PLUS dm-crypt on my virtual machines
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19:17<peter1138>ssd hw encryption is essentially free, unlike making the cpu do it
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19:19<zSnake>peter1138 yes, the problem is that i need to know if my mobo support uefi 2.3.1 and the EFI_STORAGE_SECURITY_COMMAND_PROTOCOL before starting to mess around with moneyspending hours. Seems a little difficult to get this information even from asus themselves
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19:23<peter1138>no idea here, i'm still on a bios system, so no ssd hw aes for me
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19:25<zSnake>just have been looking around for information for the last 3 days, really that unusual with wanting to encrypt ssd's without performance-hit? :)
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19:32<vush>I'm trying to set up a hotspot on debian, but the devices that connect can't get a valid ip
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20:01<TARDISMaker>Any chance anyone can help me with my audio?
20:01<TARDISMaker>I'm running Debian sid, and I just upgraded from Jessie
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20:04<mtn_>TARDISMaker, you audio worked fine in jessie?
20:04<TARDISMaker>Yeah
20:04<mtn_>TARDISMaker, did you do the basic troubleshooting? pulseaudio or alsamixer, sound settings,etc.?
20:04<TARDISMaker>I always use headphones so I would use the anolog output option in the audio settings
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20:05<TARDISMaker>Yeah, I of coarse checked in the sounds settings
20:05<mtn_>TARDISMaker, pulseaudio?
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20:06<TARDISMaker>I don't know how I would troubleshoot pulse or alsa
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20:06<TARDISMaker>I know they are installed
20:06<mtn_>TARDISMaker, you would install pavucontrol, which is what I meant to say, and check out your settings
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20:06<TARDISMaker>Okay
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20:07<mtn_>TARDISMaker, alsamixer is a command line tool, but start with pavucontrol
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20:08<mtn_>TARDISMaker, if your problem is sid specific, you should go to #debian-next
20:08<TARDISMaker>That did it, thanks
20:08<mtn_>TARDISMaker, oh, good
20:09<TARDISMaker>I'll keep that in mind for next time
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21:25<nickgaw>Hi, As my debian 8 system is setup with encrypted LVMS what can I type at the debian-installer shell prompt after the installer detects disks to mount the encrypted volume and copy off my data or will the rescue mode allow me to get access to the encrypted volume?
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22:42<amitz>can i debootstrap a directory, then mv the whole thing to usb stick, update grub, and have the usb stick ready to boot?
22:43<amitz>instead of debootstrap directly to usbstick?
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23:18<rsmith>when my laptop resumes from suspend, the backlight briefly shines at 100%, killing my eyes. Is this hardware specific (Thinkpad Yoga), or does everyone experience this? Not sure how to configure.
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---Logclosed Tue Jul 28 00:00:27 2015