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#debian IRC Logs for 2015-11-12

---Logopened Thu Nov 12 00:00:30 2015
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01:18<mah454>Hello
01:18<mah454>I use laptop Lenovo E540 and use rtl8723be for active wifi connection .
01:19<mah454>but this command connot active wireless addapter : ip link set up wlp5s0
01:23<Arcade>what does #ifconfig show mah454 ?
01:23<jm_>!rtl8723be
01:23<dpkg>Realtek RTL8723BE-based PCIe wireless LAN devices (PCI ID 10ec:b723) are supported by the rtl8723be Linux kernel driver introduced at Linux 3.15 (enabled in Debian Linux kernel images at linux 3.16-1~exp1). Firmware from userspace is required (rtlwifi/rtl8723fw.bin, rtlwifi/rtl8723fw_B.bin) and packaged since firmware-realtek 0.39. Not to be confused with <rtl8723ae> devices.
01:23<jm_>make sure all of that is OK first
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01:28<mah454>Arcade: Please view this : http://paste.debian.net/332014/
01:29<mah454>ifconfig -a show interface
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01:32<Arcade>I assume your running kernel 3.16.1 or beyond as jm_ pointed out mah454
01:32<jm_>and have firmware files in place
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01:34<mah454>Arcade and jm_ I use debian testing with kernel : 4.2.0-1-amd64
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01:37<Arcade>and you installed the firmware package
01:37<mah454>I installed this package : firmware-realtek
01:39<jm_>debian testing is supported in #debian-next so please continue there
01:39<mah454>jm_: Ok , Thank you :)
01:40<Arcade>I am wondering if the driver (module) is not loading right as #lspci should pick it up ^
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01:41<jm_>have you checked if there are any kernel messages for it?
01:41<Arcade>looks like he left *
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01:42<jm_>odd since #debian-next is on this server
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01:59<Jobbe>Some kiddo had fun over night. Sign.
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02:21<bordel>Hi guys, I'm not finding where I could submit a patch to this, but it seems there is a mistake in the documentation here: https://www.debian.org/releases/jessie/amd64/apbs04.html.en
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02:22<markybob>bordel, what mistake? i can fix it
02:22<bordel>In the section B.4.5. Account setup a sentence is telling to use md5 and the command is using sha-512
02:22<somiaj>bordel: https://www.debian.org/releases/jessie/amd64/apes02.html.en
02:22<somiaj>though having someone handy makes it easier. (:
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02:27<bordel>somiaj: Thank you very much !
02:27<bordel>markybob: If you do not fix it I will
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02:31<markybob>bordel, it's just a minor thing. debian uses sha-512 as default for a while now...you can change the wording if you want
02:38<bordel>In the examples too MD5 is written everywhere, I agree it's minor though
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03:41<faheem>Can nothing be done about these idiot spammers listing people's names?
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03:57<pairayd>After installing Debian through the ncurses installer, selecting nothing but the base system. No desktop or server. When I do my first boot (UEFI), I just get `fsck from util-linux 2.25.2\n /dev/mapper/hostname--vg-root: clean, ##/### files, ##/### blocks`. Nothing else happens after that. Any idea why?
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03:59<jm_>you can get initramfs to print lots of debugging info, see man initramfs-tools
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03:59<jm_>and one more thing - we've had several people report that system works fine but they get no console login prompt, so that may be your case too
04:00<jm_>i.e. systemctl | grep getty
04:01<jm_>if I had to guess, this second thing is what you see
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04:28<viccuad>guys, how can one don't get packages marked as 'manually installed' if they were already present in the system? thanks in advance
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04:32<jm_>you can change that using apt-mark
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04:41<viccuad>jm_: is there a way to do that programatically for all new installed packages? (I'm migrating an install from one computer to other, and I have extracted the installed packages in the old computer with dpkg --get-selections)
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04:44<jm_>viccuad: you could use its showauto/showmanual commands and simply read the list and use apt-mark appropriately on the new server with a script
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04:47<viccuad>jm_: sadly, it's a workstation, the list has 4831 packages (I have weeded out some drivers etc), and I lack the complete knowledge of all the packages to be able to mark or not mark them :/
04:48<c01d>Hello everybody! I am on Jessie and I have a bluetooth device that I want to bind automatically. I wanted to configure this in /etc/bluetooth/rfcomm.conf ... but that file is not available (only rfcomm.conf.dpkg-remove is available). What does that "dpkg-remove" mean and how can I configure my machine to bind automatically at startup? Thank you.
04:50<jm_>viccuad: maybe you misunderstood me: apt-mark showauto > auto.txt ; apt-mark showmanual > manual.txt and then read it and set it on the other one?
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04:59<Rholk>Hello, where or to who do i need to ask new features? (config options in the kernel)
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05:00<viccuad>jm_: that's a better approach. But in the manual.txt list there are packages that are already installed in the new system, and would get therefore marked as 'manually installed'. I would prefer that to not happen (and I don't have the knowledge of all package names to do it by hand and unmark them)
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05:01<jm_>viccuad: ahh yeah in that case the script won't be so simple
05:02<viccuad>I was wondering if that was already implemented somewhere
05:03<jm_>don't think so
05:03<viccuad>like every time you install a package and is already present, it is set to manually installed (I would just want something to not make that happen :)
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05:06<viccuad>jm_: anyway, thanks, apt-mark showmanual has reduced the list to ~700 :)
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05:10<Dr_O>Hello, Not been on IRC for a while... Anyway I'm working on auto-installing jessie and need to run some scripts at first boot. Is there a specific debian (jessie) way to do that or do I need to write a systemd (spit) unit file to launch my script?
05:11<jm_>Dr_O: systemd starts stuff from /etc/init.d as long as it has LSB headers
05:12<Dr_O>jm_: my old wheezy init.d script failed as ran before networking was up! SO looks like I need to tweak the LSB headers to make it run later or go the new-fangled way
05:14<jm_>Dr_O: yeah, there's $network for that, or even /etc/rc.local
05:14<Dr_O>It already has: "Required-Start: $remote_fs $all" - Ah... is it %$network I need
05:14<jm_>i would expect that one to be even better
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05:15<Dr_O>I found a nice example of using sed to replace "exit 0" in rc.local with script name and then script uses sed to replace "exit 0" which was a neat trick
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05:17<Dr_O>jm_: thanks for the LSB header insight... I'll try $network and if that fails I may FORCE myself to get my head round systemd unit files! I may just rip off the firstboot package from redhat ased systems. Debian used to have a hook for this sort of thing but seems to have does in the d-i era
05:18<jm_>Dr_O: I think you should be OK with rc.local because that seems to happen pretty late if I look into logs
05:18<Dr_O>Many thanks... I'd best go and try some of these ideas!
05:18<jm_>no problem
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07:02<MWelchUK>Is there a recommended way to setup NATing?
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07:10<c01d>Hm. According to my question above, to bind a bluetooth device during boot ... should/could I do that with a systemd service file?
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07:17<jm_>c01d: .dpkg-remove means new conf file was not installed because someone removed it
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07:18<c01d>jm_, thank you. Should I try something like dpkg-reconfigure bluetooth?
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07:18<c01d>I for sure did not remove anything related to rfcomm manually.
07:20<jm_>c01d: hmm after reading some more it's possible this happened automatically on package upgrades, but in that case this file is normally removed after the upgrade
07:20<c01d>Just tried dpkg-reconfigure, did not work.
07:21<c01d>jm_, ok, strange. My machine is completely up to date
07:21<jm_>I also can't find rfcomm.conf in any package
07:21<jm_>what's the date on that file?
07:21<c01d>(Of cause dppkg-reconfigure bluetooth DID work - but there is no new rfcomm.conf)
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07:22<c01d>jm_, 3/23/2012
07:22<c01d>err, 3/24/2012
07:23<c01d>but wait! I tried to install the bluez 4.x with target wheezy in jessie (with no success). maybe that file is an artifact of that
07:23<c01d>shame on me
07:24<jm_>c01d: so it was available in lenny and that sounds what happened then (looks to be obsoleted conf file?)
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07:27<needle>hi all !
07:27<needle>does anyone have ever tried to backport cmake 3.3.2 (from testing) to jessie ?
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07:28<needle>I'm trying to follow https://wiki.debian.org/SimpleBackportCreation but have some tests failing
07:28<jm_>,checkbackport cmake
07:28<judd>Backporting package cmake in sid→jessie/amd64: all build-dependencies satisfied using jessie.
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07:28<jm_>doesn't sound that hard
07:29<c01d>jm_, jepp. I think it is safe to remove it (but why wasn't it removed when I purged bluetooth (with apt-get purge -t=wheezy bluetooth*) once?). However, atm I dive into systemd and look for a way to bind my device with a service file. oO I will report later. Thank you so much!
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07:31<jm_>c01d: one would need to investigate it back then
07:32<needle>jm_: thanks
07:32<jm_>no problem (*2)
07:32<needle>jm_: build is ok on my side but only cmake tests are failing.
07:33<jm_>needle: would probably make sense to compare your run against one done in testing
07:33<needle>jm_: I'm new to debian build system, where can I get log for testing build ?
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07:36<jm_>needle: try looking here on the right https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/cmake
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07:37<needle>jm_: thanks I got in the same place from cmake-team QA Page : https://buildd.debian.org/status/fetch.php?pkg=cmake&arch=amd64&ver=3.3.2-2&stamp=1446922733
07:37<needle>I'll investigate with the logs
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07:45<mxn>Hi! I'm wondering why the opencv packge seems stuck on 2.4.9., while OpenCV 3.0 was released in June. What can I do about this? Email the maintainers directly? File a bug? https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/opencv
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07:46<mxn>just asked this on the freenode #debian channel but got no response, so trying my luck here ;)
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07:47<c01d>mxn, I would try reportbug
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07:48<mxn>c01d: ty
07:48<jm_>you can submit a wishlist bug
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07:50<mxn>ah there is a bug reported already :)
07:50<jm_>indeed
07:51<Brigo>,v opencv
07:51<judd>No package named 'opencv' was found in amd64.
07:51<mxn>no response tho, https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=792677
07:51<judd>Bug http://bugs.debian.org/792677 in src:opencv (pending): «opencv: OpenCV 3.0 is released»; severity: wishlist; opened: 2015-07-17; last modified: 2015-08-18.
07:52<mxn>what would be involved in creating an updated package?
07:52<mxn>and should i do that and submit a pull request, or how does the process work?
07:55<Brigo>mxn, that package is maintaining for a team: Debian Science Team <debian-science-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org>.
07:55<Brigo>you can talk with them.
07:55<mxn>thanks Brigo
07:56<Brigo>mxn, you are welcome :)
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08:00<viccuad>Hi guys. is there a way to get packages not marked as manually installed if one tries to install them and they are already present? thanks in advance
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08:01<abrotman>viccuad: does unmarkauto not have an inverse?
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08:03<jm_>abrotman: viccaud has a server that list of packages is taken from and wants to merge that list with the new server, including the auto/manual install flag
08:03<abrotman>dpkg: tell viccuad about aptitude clone
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08:03<abrotman>no ?
08:03<Brigo>mxn, check testig migrations: https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/opencv
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08:04<mxn>hm, is there an introduction of sorts how this whole packaging and release handlign business works?
08:05<jm_>I think the catch is that some of those packages are already on new server and their status wants to be kept as is, as long as I understood it
08:05<mxn>thus far i've only been a debian user
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08:06<Brigo>mxn, for packaging?
08:07<Brigo>mentors, mentors.debian.net and an irc channel, #debian-mentors.
08:08<EmleyMoor>I've got unreliable sound on my laptop - mostly, it's just not playing (though claims it is). How can I solve that?
08:08<mxn>Brigo: ty
08:08<Brigo>EmleyMoor, try this: http://www.ocsmag.com/2015/09/25/cli-quickies-ii-fiddling-with-sound/
08:08<Brigo>mxn, yw :)
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08:14<viccuad>abrotman, jm_ : is a workstation :)
08:15<jm_>ok doesn't make much difference though
08:15<viccuad>abrotman: that sounds like a solution. If I have understood it right, aptitude would not mark packages as 'manually installed' if I schedule the list to be installed and install it, with aptitude?
08:15<EmleyMoor>Hmmm... seemed to be the "Speaker" channel in sound card 1's mixer
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08:17<abrotman>viccuad: have to test, but seems reasonable
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08:18<viccuad>abrotman: on a similar note, why if you try to install a package that is already installed is marked as manually installed? if one wants that functionality, one can use apt-mark
08:19<viccuad>or at least there should be a way to disable that behaviour
08:19<PovAddict>+1
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08:53<abrotman>viccuad: That I can't answer. I don't generally concern myself with tracking things this closely on a day to day basis. I do audits from time to time
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08:57<c01d>cya
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08:59<shome>How's everyone doing today ?
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09:18<canaima>hola
09:18<canaima>alguien me podria ayudar
09:18<PovAddict>!es
09:18<dpkg>Este canal es de soporte técnico en Inglés para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en Español, puede ingresar en #debian-es tecleando /join #debian-es en la línea de chat.
09:18<canaima>help
09:19<PovAddict>also
09:19<PovAddict>!ask
09:19<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
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09:32<shome>Does anyone here find themselves having to ssh into multiple devices at a time ? I'm looking for a way to inject scripts through sort of a 'button' method, where I can plug scripts into this button. Has anyone found such a method to work other than terminator for example ?
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09:33<PovAddict>shome: if you just want to run the same command on all devices, you don't need to open actual terminal windows
09:33<PovAddict>shome: for server in alpha beta gamma delta; do ssh ${server}.example.com runmything.sh; done
09:33<MWelchUK>shome: In the past, when I needed to run the odd command on a number of devices, I created a threaded python script using pxssh.
09:33<PovAddict>assuming you have password-less public key ssh authentication set up :)
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09:34<shome>keys are setup
09:35<shome>PovAddict: That sounds like a great method, but I would be working in these devices for long periods of time, as a normal user as well so i'm not so sure that would be the most effective.
09:35<PovAddict>shome: do you need to run different things on each, manually?
09:35<shome>By normal user, I mean user to shell for long periods.
09:35<shome>PovAddict: Yes.
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09:35<PovAddict>you can script konsole to open tabs and run commands in them (such as the ssh command to login) through dbus
09:36<shome>Hate to say it, but on windows there's a program called 'XShell' which has this capability, but i've yet to find something similar on *nix.
09:36<PovAddict>it's not the nicest thing in the world but it's possible
09:36<MWelchUK>shome: terminator?
09:36<Brigo>what about mssh ?
09:37<PovAddict>Brigo: that looks good
09:37<Brigo>check clusterssh and mussh too :)
09:37<abrotman>clusterssh
09:37<shome>Brigo: Going to try mssh. thanks
09:37<shome>thanks all
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09:48<mah454>Laptop-mode-tools disable my laptop wireless adapter
09:48<mah454>How can fix this problem ?
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09:51<abrotman>rfkill might help
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10:09<imMute>So I have my root partition on a btrfs subvolume. My /etc/fstab has "subvol=@" in the options, and btrfsroot/@ is a symlink to btrfsroot/@_foo. I want grub's config to use "@" not "@_foo" so that I can repoint the symlink and easily switch snapshots. it looks like the default /etc/grub.d/10_linux resolves symlinks (via /usr/bin/grub-mkrelpath). Does anyone know a way to get grub to not resole that path
10:09<imMute>other than editing that 10_linux script?
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10:38-!-l00p_ is "(unknown)" on (unknown)
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10:56<jhutchins>imMute: I presume this is for VMs?
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11:37<suicidallemming>list
11:37<suicidallemming>#list
11:37<PovAddict>list?
11:37<suicidallemming>Wrong window, my bad! :S
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12:39<Xylon>hey
12:39<Xylon>I wan to make a picture DVD
12:39<Xylon>that can play on my DVD player
12:40<Xylon>There is dvd-slideshow in Jessie repos
12:40<Xylon>but it doesn't work (seems unmaintained since 2011)
12:40<Xylon>is there a way that works?
12:41<PovAddict>do you want any transitions, animations, audio, menus, etc?
12:41<PovAddict>if not, most DVD players just work if you throw a bunch of .jpg files into the DVD
12:41<Xylon>Oh OK
12:41<Xylon>That's cool, I'll try that
12:42<Xylon>thanks
12:43<PovAddict>you probably want to shrink the photos though
12:43<PovAddict>in my experience DVD players can be slow when reading and decompressing large JPEGs
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12:47<Xylon>I assume I choose the order by the filename
12:47<PovAddict>yep
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12:51<r4fkramer_Debian>Hi all
12:51<r4fkramer_Debian>Iceweasel is presenting a run, which puts at risk the safety of my Debian system. It closes suddenly, and my system is well configured, updated and stable (it is not only, all other installed applications are running well without bugs).
12:52<r4fkramer_Debian>have information on specialized forums in Debian, it is an old bug, still not fully solved ....
12:52-!-renols [olsren@89.239.193.52] has joined #debian
12:53<r4fkramer_Debian>The question is: can I uninstall iceweasel without it brings a problem on my Debian? Would I like to replace it with pure Firefox because I know Iceweasel is a derivative of it, but not as stable as Firefox Real
12:54<PovAddict>iceweasel is just firefox with a changed logo and name due to trademark issues...
12:54<r4fkramer_Debian>but, firefox doesn't run like this...
12:54-!-Fennet [~Entosis@89.140.193.34.static.user.ono.com] has joined #debian
12:54<jelly>what does "presenting a run" mean?
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12:55<r4fkramer_Debian>sorry jelly, I meant: Iceweasel is running badly here...
12:55<PovAddict>uninstalling iceweasel should have no problem
12:55<r4fkramer_Debian>it closes suddenly, without any reason
12:56<PovAddict>but you should track down the problem cause instead
12:56<jelly>r4fkramer_Debian: should be fine, but you even don't have to uninstall it to avoid using it
12:56<r4fkramer_Debian>yes, PovAddict, I know
12:57<jelly>PovAddict: I understood they tracked the issue and found it was a known one, > it is an old bug, still not fully solved ....
12:57<PovAddict>ah
12:57-!-shome [~shome@47.19.105.250] has joined #debian
12:57<r4fkramer_Debian>it threatens the safety of those who will use the internet in debian
12:57<jelly>pfft
12:58-!-tetrapovicc [~trifyl@AToulouse-652-1-253-160.w109-223.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #debian
12:58<r4fkramer_Debian>imagine: you use my computer, open the browser and see personal things, only for you...
12:58-!-denes [~denes@109.102.56.57] has joined #debian
12:58<r4fkramer_Debian>you close and other person comes to use the computer...
12:58<jelly>r4fkramer_Debian: if it's a security issue, it should be reported and assigned a bug number and a CVE number
12:58<shome>Just want to generally ask what some of you like to use for a gui within debian ? I'm really liking xfce.
12:58<r4fkramer_Debian>suddenly, iceweasel is opened and shows information from yours to other people
12:58<PovAddict>r4fkramer_Debian: that's not what you said before
12:58<jelly>r4fkramer_Debian: that's nonsense
12:59-!-denes [~denes@109.102.56.57] has quit []
12:59<PovAddict>you said it closes by itself, not that it opens by itself with the previous user's information
12:59<r4fkramer_Debian>really, just because I didn't explain it before
12:59<EmleyMoor>Hmmm... why does my "outside" address get geolocated as being in Gloucester?
12:59<jelly>r4fkramer_Debian: which bug number is it?
13:00<r4fkramer_Debian>it closes suddenly, and when you open it again, it opens on the same page it was closed
13:00-!-shivansh [~quassel@14.139.243.162] has joined #debian
13:00<jelly>r4fkramer_Debian: if you have two separate unix users on a machine they should not be able to share any part of iceweasel user data
13:00<PovAddict>indeed
13:00<PovAddict>and if two people are using the same unix user, you already have no security anyway
13:00<jelly>r4fkramer_Debian: session management and restoral is an intentional feature.
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13:01<r4fkramer_Debian>if other person opens it, it will open your personal accesses....
13:01<EmleyMoor>One site has just put it in Arnold...
13:01<jelly>r4fkramer_Debian: the other person should have their own account.
13:01-!-JohnML [~JohnML@ip-176-198-82-28.hsi05.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
13:01<jelly>r4fkramer_Debian: if you don't want them to access your data, log off and let them log on.
13:01<r4fkramer_Debian>no, jelly, I think you didn't understand my problem here
13:01<PovAddict>r4fkramer_Debian: even without session recovery, if you use the same unix account, the second person can see first person's history and cache and cookies
13:01<r4fkramer_Debian>but, no problem
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13:02<r4fkramer_Debian>that's not the case, PovAddict, but I will uninstall iceweasel so...
13:02<jelly>r4fkramer_Debian: this isn't a security issue per se. This is a misunderstanding of unix permission system.
13:02<EmleyMoor>geoip.co.uk reckons Gloucester...
13:02<jelly>r4fkramer_Debian: Firefox will not behave any different if it crashes.
13:02<blast007>r4fkramer_Debian: I assure you that Firefox also does this... even on other platforms
13:03<r4fkramer_Debian>no, jelly, you really didn't understand the question, and it is simple question
13:03<PovAddict>then write it properly
13:03<r4fkramer_Debian>no, blast007, i use firefox on Slackware for a long time
13:03-!-Guest8427 is now known as finchd
13:03<r4fkramer_Debian>and never had this issue there
13:03<PovAddict>r4fkramer_Debian: you only asked one question ("can I uninstall iceweasel without it brings a problem on my Debian?") and I answered yes
13:03-!-average_guy [~rfinley@00019a42.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:03<blast007>r4fkramer_Debian: if you're wanting to install a newer version of Iceweasel on Debian, go here: http://mozilla.debian.net/
13:03-!-iphan [~iphan@114.4.78.214] has joined #debian
13:03<r4fkramer_Debian>my experience proves this idea is not so correct, blast007
13:04<jelly>r4fkramer_Debian: I see two separate issues here. First is iceweasel crashing. Second is iceweasel behaviour after it's started again.
13:04<r4fkramer_Debian>no, blast007, thanks
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13:04<PovAddict>the only difference in iceweasel is the name and logo
13:04<r4fkramer_Debian>It is quite simple to understand...
13:04<blast007>r4fkramer_Debian: http://kb.mozillazine.org/Session_Restore
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13:04<jelly>PovAddict: also it's the ESR branch, and it does not have precisely the same build options and codecs.
13:04<r4fkramer_Debian>at first I thought it was the case, PovAddict, only a superficial question: name and logo
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13:05<r4fkramer_Debian>ok, my only question was solved by one of yours. If I uninstall it, it won't cause any trouble to my Debian system
13:05<PovAddict>why would it?
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13:06<jelly>r4fkramer_Debian: I have Firefox unpacked and use it daily, and I also have iceweasel from debian installed at the same time.
13:06<r4fkramer_Debian>the experience I'm having with the iceweasel here is enough for me to take an appropriate decision: Can I use another browser, Konqueror or chromium
13:07-!-Haricophile [~Haricophi@2a01:e34:ee47:3e40:61fe:115f:3e3:8fa3] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:07<PovAddict>sure, why not
13:07<blast007>r4fkramer_Debian: the last link I pasted shows how to disable crash recovery (which is a firefox feature)
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13:07<shome>Got in the conversation late. I'm guessing most of you don't use iceweasel ?
13:07<r4fkramer_Debian>show me this link, blast007, please
13:07<jelly>most?
13:07<lindi->PovAddict: r4fkramer_Debian: does konqueror have security support?
13:07<blast007>r4fkramer_Debian: http://kb.mozillazine.org/Session_Restore
13:07<EmleyMoor>shome: I use it occasionally... tend to use chrome these days
13:08<r4fkramer_Debian>or chrome, why not ?
13:08<jelly>lindi-: it does not. Only iceweasel and chromium have a semblance of security support.
13:08<PovAddict>lindi-: lol no, khtml hasn't been touched in years, there's probably enough security holes to drive a 747 through
13:08<blast007>r4fkramer_Debian: according to that page, restoring the session after a crash has been a feature since Firefox 3.5.. so it's acted this way for a long time.
13:08<PovAddict>lindi-: and qtwebkit (also supported by Konqueror) is probably not much better
13:08-!-carmen_ [~carmen@187.216.140.97] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:08<r4fkramer_Debian>jelly, just a question: if iceweasel and firefox are the same, why did you unpack firefox to use it, and still have iceweasel in the same machine ?
13:08-!-carmen [~carmen@187.216.140.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:09<lindi->r4fkramer_Debian: so the lack of security support would make me not recommend konqueror
13:09<r4fkramer_Debian>ok, lindi, so I will use chrome
13:09<jelly>r4fkramer_Debian: I've been running Firefox since before there was iceweasel.
13:09<lindi->r4fkramer_Debian: chrome is non-free, I wouldn't recommend that, but there is chromium
13:10<r4fkramer_Debian>ok, explain me the reason you have both installed on the same machine
13:10<jelly>why not
13:10<r4fkramer_Debian>yes, chromium
13:10<jelly>I also have chromium and google-chrome-stable.
13:10<r4fkramer_Debian>and explain the logical reason for that...
13:10*EmleyMoor uses google-chromme-stable
13:10<jelly>pfft
13:10-!-Corey84 [~Corey84@63-235-172-51.dia.static.qwest.net] has joined #debian
13:10<EmleyMoor>chrome*
13:11<jelly>r4fkramer_Debian: to try things out in separate browsers and to keep work and fun logically separate.
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13:11<jelly>sometimes I have google-chrome-beta, too.
13:12<r4fkramer_Debian>So, that is your reason for maintaining both browsers ?
13:12<jelly>I'm not maintaining anything.
13:12<jelly>they all have security support from their respective vendors.
13:12<r4fkramer_Debian>my issue is fixed here, according suggestions given here, I'm installing chromium now
13:12<r4fkramer_Debian>fixed
13:12<EmleyMoor>jelly: So, someone else looks after your packages?
13:13<jelly>EmleyMoor: yes.
13:13<jelly>EmleyMoor: Debian does.
13:13-!-idwer [~irc@s529c5c1b.adsl.online.nl] has joined #debian
13:13<PovAddict>EmleyMoor: "maintaining packages" is what debian developers do
13:13<jelly>EmleyMoor: I just apply patches every now and then.
13:13<jelly>(this is what users do)
13:13<EmleyMoor>Debian != someone. "looking after" != "maintaining"
13:14<jelly>EmleyMoor: what do you mean by look after, then?
13:14-!-tlaxkit [~yo@95.63.152.106] has quit [Quit: ¡Hasta luego!]
13:14<EmleyMoor>jelly: Dealing with installation
13:14<jelly>dealing?
13:14<PovAddict>obviously he does that himself
13:14<PovAddict>"maintaining"
13:14<PovAddict>er
13:15<PovAddict>"maintaining" is what debian developers do, and then upload the updated packages to debian servers :)
13:15<EmleyMoor>To maintain browsers does not really mean to maintain their packages.
13:15<jelly>EmleyMoor: daily patching takes about a minute. Firefox from Mozilla downloads fixes on its own and just asks me to restart.
13:15<r4fkramer_Debian>I am already solving the problem here, installing chromium; just do not see the point in keeping a system that shows constantly unstable, and that Debian users claim it is an old bug that is never resolved definitively; Therefore, it doesn't make sense to me, keep it on my Debian
13:16<blast007>r4fkramer_Debian: which bug are we talking about?
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13:17<jelly>r4fkramer_Debian: eh... what's fine, but realize it's not "constantly unstable" for all the users or perhaps even the majority, and it's not a security issue.
13:17<jelly>that's* fine
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13:18<r4fkramer_Debian>Jelly about a problem that many, not only one, two or three former Debian users have commented, but several (more than 9 people have told me this): the browser is open, at any page, and closes suddenly, without any user intervention
13:18<r4fkramer_Debian>well, I see this kind of comment being said frequently
13:18<blast007>r4fkramer_Debian: got a Debian bug number?
13:19<r4fkramer_Debian>jeely, even here I've had this observation, made by an older Debian user than me and more experienced as well. Now this is obvious!
13:19-!-Gabriel_7 [~Gabriel@2a01:e35:1386:3290:21f:d0ff:fedb:a940] has joined #debian
13:19<jelly>r4fkramer_Debian: presumably some of them will have reported this bug or bugs to Debian so it can be fixed
13:20<r4fkramer_Debian>how to get this bug number ? systems doesn't show any bug number here, blast007
13:20<r4fkramer_Debian>yes, but it is considered an old issue, not recent
13:20-!-shivansh_ [~quassel@14.139.243.162] has joined #debian
13:20<r4fkramer_Debian>it has been made several times, all over the iceweasel releases, I suppose....
13:20<r4fkramer_Debian>and still with no positive solution
13:21<r4fkramer_Debian>but, as I said you, my problem is solved here
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13:21<r4fkramer_Debian>chromium installed
13:21<r4fkramer_Debian>and first tests here make me feel nice using it
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13:21<r4fkramer_Debian>thanks for attention of everyone !
13:21<jelly>it's not obvious to me, I'll keep it running for a couple weeks to verify if it crashes
13:22<r4fkramer_Debian>jelly, you're telling me you've never had this problem with iceweasel?
13:22<jelly>correct
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13:24<jelly>What you've described so far is just a symptom that says "program crashes and restarts". That's horribly vague, and there might be lots of different bugs with that symptom
13:25-!-samb1 [~samb1@2a01:7c8:aab0:1a7:b0d4:9df5:edce:7ab2] has joined #debian
13:25<r4fkramer_Debian>it's not horribly vague, it's a simple and clear description - it happens always, you accept it or not....
13:25<r4fkramer_Debian>and not only for me it has happened
13:25-!-lpalgarvio [~lpalgarvi@vfpt-gw.vodafone.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
13:25<r4fkramer_Debian>well, it's new to me, and accept the fact, but you must also accept the fact that many users have had this problem: there are several reports that I could show you here, but I think it is no longer the case, why it is not more a problem for me, since I decided it definitely ...
13:25<jelly>it's a clear description that doesn't say much at all
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13:26<jelly>"program crashed" is not a _useful_ description and it applies to too many bugs
13:26<r4fkramer_Debian>for you it doesn't say much at all, that is not the opinion of others
13:26<r4fkramer_Debian>jelly, my question is fixed, shall we stop this discussion, please ?
13:26<jelly>it's not for me, it's for anyone that had to debug any application, ever
13:27<r4fkramer_Debian>It is fixed here, I followed suggestion given here and chromium is running fine
13:27<jelly>when a developer gets a report like that, it's merely a starting point
13:27<r4fkramer_Debian>if you did not understand my problem, forget it, doesn't make sense for me continuing this discussion without any logical reason, please...
13:27<blast007>chromium likely has it's own "restore session on crash", and there you probably can't even turn it off
13:28<r4fkramer_Debian>I've been using it on the past with FreeBSD, it didn't cause my problems iceweasel has caused
13:28<r4fkramer_Debian>chromium
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13:29<jelly>blast007: it asks once whether to restore the previous session at the next start, by default
13:29<r4fkramer_Debian>but, as I said before, my problem is fixed here and I have to thank you for support and attention
13:29<jelly>does not do it automatically
13:29<r4fkramer_Debian>yes, not automatically
13:30<r4fkramer_Debian>but it happens
13:30<blast007>jelly: doesn't change his whole "that's a security issue" concern though
13:30<jelly>¯\_(ツ)_/¯
13:30<r4fkramer_Debian>it is not a security issue for the system
13:31<r4fkramer_Debian>but for my personal actions in computer, yes, it causes me security issues
13:31<jelly>it's not a privacy issue either
13:31<jelly>if you have multiple people using the same machine, give them separate accounts and log off when you stop using it
13:32<r4fkramer_Debian>ahahaha , jelly, forget this ! You won't never understand what has happened here, although it was a simple question, and I explained it clear
13:32<r4fkramer_Debian>forget it, ok ?
13:32<r4fkramer_Debian>and Bye !
13:32<jelly>cheers
13:32<r4fkramer_Debian>thanks for your attention and support, jelly
13:32<r4fkramer_Debian>I must go now
13:32<r4fkramer_Debian>Bye!
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13:33<jelly>TIL telling people their workflow is broken and based on incorrect assumptions: useless
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13:51<sk0rg3>high peoplw
13:51<sk0rg3>people
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14:18<mirko_> /msg dpkg jessie
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17:05<Nemoder>How do I prevent non-root users from rebooting with systemd?
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17:24<peer>Nemoder... what do you mean with "rebooting with systemd"?
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17:25<Nemoder>logind i assume, or whatever controls systemctl reboot
17:25-!-sweatyguys [~smuxi@168.235.153.223] has joined #debian
17:25<hudo>hello I like to compile from source package file_5.11.orig.tar.xz a static 32bit version but I do not succeed, I always get a dynamic version, although I added LDFLAGS=-static -m32 and CFLAGS=-m32 -static
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17:28<peer>Nemoder... do they use "sudo"?
17:28-!-SPKSTYLE [~SPKSTYLE@179.179.37.204] has joined #debian
17:28<Nemoder>no
17:31-!-danieleder4 [~daniele@host216-4-dynamic.24-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #debian
17:32<peer>is "policykit*" installed?
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19:18<twb>What is the reportbug equivalent of bts --bts-server debbugs.gnu.org ?
19:19<twb>I can only see a knob to choose what KIND of bts, not which instance
19:20-!-travnewmatic [~travnewma@pool-173-57-109-204.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #debian
19:20<twb>Argh /usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/reportbug/debbugs.py hard-codes the list and it doesn't include GNU's debbugs instance
19:24-!-WhoElse- [~exe@77.29.82.203] has joined #debian
19:24<WhoElse->hi
19:25-!-vonsyd0w [~vonsyd0w@68-184-117-131.dhcp.smyr.ga.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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19:26<WhoElse->anyone here to help
19:27<twb>WhoElse-: you need to ask the question first :-)
19:27<WhoElse->here is the question
19:27<WhoElse->i want to run eggdrop on my debian
19:28<WhoElse->and i got this
19:28<WhoElse->i may be kicked
19:28<WhoElse->Tcl cannot be found on this system.
19:28<WhoElse->Eggdrop requires Tcl to compile. If you already have Tcl installed on
19:28<WhoElse->this system, and I just wasn't looking in the right place for it, re-run
19:28<WhoElse->./configure using the --with-tcllib='/path/to/libtcl.so' and
19:28<WhoElse->--with-tclinc='/path/to/tcl.h' options.
19:28-!-WhoElse- was kicked from #debian by debhelper [flood. Please use http://paste.debian.net instead.]
19:28-!-WhoElse- [~exe@77.29.82.203] has joined #debian
19:28<WhoElse->did u got it ?
19:28-!-mlncn_ [~quassel@ool-18b95449.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:30<WhoElse->?
19:31-!-pheanex [~pheanex@dslb-088-078-193-251.088.078.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:32<WhoElse->is there anyone that can help me solve this?
19:33-!-daniel_ [~daniel@vig91-1-82-229-240-116.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #debian
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19:35<WhoElse->hmmm
19:35-!-Arcturus [~Azru@tor4thepeople2.torexitnode.net] has joined #debian
19:36<PadawanLearner>apt-cache search tcl
19:36-!-JanC [~janc@ip-62-235-201-25.dsl.scarlet.be] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:36<PadawanLearner>/bin/sh: apt-cache: not found
19:36<PadawanLearner>sometimes i forget i'm on the router
19:37<WhoElse->lol
19:37<twb>WhoElse-: please use a pastebin like debhelper suggested - 11:28 *** debhelper KICK WhoElse- #debian flood. Please use http://paste.debian.net instead.
19:38<twb>WhoElse-: eggdrop is in Debian already, can you just apt-get install it?
19:38<WhoElse->how
19:38<WhoElse->?
19:38<WhoElse->apt-get install eggdrop
19:38<WhoElse->dowsnt work
19:39-!-mlncn [~quassel@ool-18b95449.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #debian
19:39<twb>!doesntwork
19:39<WhoElse->yes
19:39<WhoElse->doesnt work
19:39<PadawanLearner>sudo apt-get install eggdrop
19:40<WhoElse->now it did work
19:40<WhoElse->:D
19:40<WhoElse->apt-get install eggdrop
19:40<twb>Sorry, I meant this:
19:40<twb>dpkg: does not work
19:40<dpkg>"Doesn't work" is a vague statement. Does it sit on the couch all day long? Does it procrastinate doing the dishes? Does it beg on the street for change? Please be specific! Define 'it' and what it isn't doing. Give us more details so we can help you without needing to ask basic questions like "what's the error message?". Ask me about <smart questions>, <sicco> and <errors>.
19:40<twb>But since it's working now, never mind :-0
19:41<WhoElse->where is located ?
19:41<WhoElse->Setting up eggdrop-data (1.6.21-4) ...
19:41<WhoElse->Setting up eggdrop (1.6.21-4) ...
19:41<PadawanLearner>apropos eggdrop
19:41<twb>Argh. reportbugs didn't offer to check existing bugs, so I just made a duplicate
19:43<WhoElse->ahh
19:43<WhoElse->i installed as root
19:43<WhoElse->how do i do the same as user
19:44<Brigo>WhoElse-, users can't isnstall packages.
19:44<WhoElse->okay than
19:44<WhoElse->how do i configure the eggdrop that i installed as root
19:46<WhoElse->[19:45:05] * ERROR: Eggdrop will not run as root!
19:46<twb>WhoElse-: try reading /usr/share/doc/eggdrop/README.Debian
19:46<twb>WhoElse-: we are not eggdrop experts
19:47<WhoElse->i just cant locate it :D
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19:50<WhoElse->how to decompres .gz
19:51<twb>gunzip or zcat
19:51<twb>It sounds like you might benefit from a intro-to-linux textbook :-)
19:52<WhoElse->hahahaha
19:52<PadawanLearner>lol
19:52-!-neeson [~neeson@104.156.240.137] has joined #debian
19:55<somiaj>if you just need to read a .gz file, zless is good
19:56<twb>If you set up lesspipe you don't even need the 'z'
19:56<twb>It's in /etc/skel/.bashrc (commented out by default)
19:58<twb>In other news, I completely fail to drive "bts merge"
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20:04<neeson>people say debian is hard to configure, but seems 99% of that could be solved through shell scripts
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20:07<twb>neeson: compared to what?
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20:12<neeson>twb: mint and ubuntu
20:12<neeson>i hear this all the time
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20:13<neeson>just need a script installing all of the alsa packages, gdeb, ufw, the network-manager packages, clamtk/clam, etc
20:14<neeson>and one configuring synaptic with non-free and contrib that the user can run
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20:16<twb>Sounds like you just want a preseed file for your specific needs
20:16<neeson>i am thinking of the mint people, new to linux
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21:30<feverDream>Hello, Where are the network manager profiles for different network connections stored in debian?
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21:32<twb>feverDream: change one, then find / -xdev -mmin -10 to find files changed in the last ten minutes :-)
21:33<twb>Probably something like /var/lib/network-manager
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21:33<feverDream>twb thanks man. Since the names are machine generated they look like uids.
21:34<feverDream>https://gist.github.com/anonymous/1437b359d6b56fd9c8b5
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21:34<feverDream>twb: anyways will check the path you mentioned.
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21:45<jinppk>is it possible to apt-pin in a preseed? Im installing jessie, but id like to add a sid repo and pin it below jessie, like this http://jaqque.sbih.org/kplug/apt-pinning.html. I know how to add a repo in presed, but not sure how to set apt preferences, can anyone point me in the right direction?
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21:51<twb>jinppk: do you know how to do pinning on an installed system?
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21:52<twb>There are some phases in preseed where you can run an arbitrary script - at those points, I think you could add an apt-preferences(5) file to enforce pins
21:53<twb>In general, though, I find it's much easier to make the debian-install phase as simple as possible, and do such things afterward using configuration management (e.g. puppet)
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21:54<jinppk>twb: yes i know how.
21:55<jinppk>yes i will try and push it back as much as possible. thanks
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22:12<chris_goe>Hi. I have this Debian 8 system, running fine for ages now, but for some reason syslog-ng cannot be started any more:
22:12<chris_goe>syslog-ng.service start request repeated too quickly, refusing to start.
22:12<chris_goe>Full log on https://paste.debian.net/332309/ - Google tunrs up quite a few results, but nothing too syslog-ng specific.
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22:14<chris_goe>Starting syslog-ng manually works...
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22:23<twb>Do you actually care about syslog-ng?
22:24<twb>Because rsyslogd support seems to be reasonably good
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22:24<twb>syslog-ng *must* be patched to work under systemd; this might not have happened. I know this is the case for busybox-sysklogd.
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22:27<twb>I checked the source, it looks like syslog-ng has systemd integration.
22:28<twb>chris_goe: does syslog-ng start if you run it by hand?
22:30<twb>The default unit appears to hide StandardOutput from syslog-ng.service. Suggest commenting that out, "systemctl daemon-reload && systemctl restart syslog-ng && journalctl -u syslog-ng" to see if you get a clearer error message
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22:35<chris_goe>twb: I'm a syslog-ng fanboy, so I like it to work, yes :)
22:36<chris_goe>and it worked...yesterday, and the months before..
22:36<chris_goe>not sure what happened here...
22:37<chris_goe>I did the daemon-reload now and the restart, but the error is the same, and not more detailed either:
22:37<chris_goe>syslog-ng.service start request repeated too quickly, refusing to start
22:37<twb>chris_goe: yes but we need to know what happened *before* that
22:37<twb>systemctl status only lists the last ten log lines
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22:38<twb>journalctl -u syslog-ng, maybe with -b also
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22:41<chris_goe>journalctl -u syslog-ng - https://paste.debian.net/332310/ and again, with -b: https://paste.debian.net/332311/
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22:43<twb>OK so syslog-ng is exiting with 2
22:44<twb>Does its manpage say what 2 means to it? Because "INVALIDARGUMENT" is just systemd trying to trick you
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22:45<twb>"--stderr [...] If not specified, syslog-ng will log such messages to its internal source"
22:45<twb>^ have you checked its "internal source" ? Or, patch the unit to include --stderr and try again?
22:47<chris_goe>thanks, the INVALIDARGUMENT reminded me of something...
22:48<chris_goe>apparently the syslog-ng.conf was b0rked (gotta debug this later on) and I remember now that I _did_ fiddle with syslog-ng a month ago. So it was PEBKAC, after all. So much for the "I didn't touch anything!" argument...
22:48<chris_goe>sorry for the noise...
22:48<chris_goe>and thanks for your help!
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22:49<chris_goe>strange though that syslog-ng came up just fine when started manually...
22:50<chris_goe>too bad these systemd error messages are so vague :-\
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22:56<twb>What was causing the problem?
22:56<twb>invalid syntax in syslog-ng.conf?
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23:03<chris_goe>can't debug right now, will have time in 1h or so
23:03<chris_goe>sorry
23:04<twb>No problem
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23:50<chris_goe>ok, so in my syslog-ng.conf I have a source directive to set /dev/log as a syslog source. When I use 'unix-dgram("/dev/log")' I can start syslog-ng via systemd. For some reason I changed it to 'unix-stream("/dev/log")' and systemd refused to start. Both variants however are valid and I could start syslog-ng either way.
23:52<chris_goe>there was some concern that unix-stream would be more reliable than unix-dgram, but this doesn't seem to be an issue: https://lists.balabit.hu/pipermail/syslog-ng/2008-April/011605.html (on Linux)
23:52<twb>chris_goe: /dev/log as source is wrong for systemd
23:53<twb>chris_goe: instead you must read from a file descriptor that systemd will open for you and tell you about via an environment variable
23:53<twb>chris_goe: this is already coded in syslog-ng so it should Just Work
23:53<chris_goe>Hm, I really don't want systemd to do any logging for me, I really want to use syslog-ng here.
23:54<twb>AFAIK you don't have a choice
23:54<twb>If you use systemd, you have to use journald.
23:54<twb>And journald has to hijack /dev/log, so if you want a separate syslogd you must patch it to expect journald
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23:54<twb>root@het:~# ss -xap | grep syslog
23:54<twb>u_dgr ESTAB 0 0 /run/systemd/journal/syslog 3309 * 0 users:(("rsyslogd",pid=337,fd=3),("systemd",pid=1,fd=26))
23:54<chris_goe>Uh, I always assumed that I could disable journald
23:54<twb>^ That's what it uses instead of /dev/log
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23:55<twb>chris_goe: you presumably haven't, because "systemctl status" was showing logs from the journal
23:55<twb>If you *do* work out a way to run systemd without journald, let me know. I didn't even try.
23:57<chris_goe>Hm, "systemctl disable systemd-journald.service && systemctl stop systemd-journald.service" stopped it here
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23:59<chris_goe>ah, but it's coming back on when I restart syslog-ng.... oh my
---Logclosed Fri Nov 13 00:00:31 2015