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#debian IRC Logs for 2015-11-29

---Logopened Sun Nov 29 00:00:17 2015
---Daychanged Sun Nov 29 2015
00:00<Hulk>I have an 8.2 system here without NetworkManager or resolv.conf; it's a DHCP client but /etc/resolv.conf is being overwritten with a 0 byte file. It's still mode 0644, owner root:root - anyone know what might be overwriting it (or how to find out)?
00:00<Hulk>Oops - I mean without the resolvconf package
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00:05<Hulk>It's being overwritten every seven seconds (or thereabouts)
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00:59<url>anyone skilled in python
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01:09<somiaj>there are python specific channels (though I think freenode would have more)
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02:28<palasso>Hello. Is there a way to do "apt-get update" for a specific repository instead for all the system?
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02:37<somiaj>palasso: why would you want to do that, usually when the repo changes you want to update (else you just get 404 when trying to request packages)
02:38<palasso>somiaj: let's say I add new repo and I want to update package database only for that newly added repo
02:38<somiaj>I don't know of a way
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03:30<palasso>never mind I found this:
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06:24<libben>Hi, I have made a full install on a usb stick, But I cant get grub onto it. I did not get any warning during grub conf in installer. Tried with installing it afterwards when i Boot up a live usb stick.
06:25<libben>Anyone has this happend?
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06:31<gnugr>libben: installer must asked you where to install grub during installation, did you put it in right place?
06:32<libben>yeah, i choosed NO on MBR and then pointed it to my usb stick /dev/sdg
06:32<libben>and it gave no error/warning
06:32<libben>and when I try to boot it up I just get a blinking cursor, nothing else
06:33<libben>So now Im not sure what to do
06:34<libben>Well, I tried a live usb debian, latest, and booted it up, got root, installed grub2 and did grub-install /dev/sdg1
06:35<libben>sdg1 is my / root partition, I only have that and a swap
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06:35<libben>well, also a third partition, that is 1k and I did not make it during installation. So not sure what that is. But I could not mount it
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06:37<gnugr>libben: is it a dual boot?
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06:39<libben>it's just a usb stick
06:39<libben>I dont want to install grub onto my hdd's
06:40<libben>I want the usb to have grub and full debian
06:40<libben>så i can boot it everywhere and play with it
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09:18<oldself>Hi - Looking to install a distro without any prior use of linux. Debian is presently my first choice. My main question is that many other distros appear to be built off debian, does that mean debian is a good starting point? It is my impression I cannot access the advantages of those OS's through packages so would need a different boot if I wanted them
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09:21<mtn>oldself, I personally feel debian is fine for a new user. especially one that is not afraid of reading the wiki. the only difficulty compared to other distros will be the installation.
09:21<mtn>oldself, which might add some difficulties or it might not, depending on your hardware
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09:24<oldself>thanks, I'll set that as my first hurdle
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09:25<mtn>oldself, you should research your video and wireless hardware. you may need the installer that has non-free firmware added.
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11:04<noob>Hello. Is there a place to ask debian on powerpc questions?
11:04-!-noob is now known as Guest10258
11:05<Guest10258>I am getting a tsl_handshake error in pianobar and am looking for help with debian 3.2.0-4-powerpc
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11:11<Guest10258>any powerpc users here?
11:13<Guest10258>any pianobar users here? I have a cli-only install on an G4 iMac "flowerpot"
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11:14<Guest10258>Hi Corey84
11:14<Guest10258>I mean Guest10259
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11:15<Guest10258>hi antgel
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11:18<Guest10258>I have a cli-only install on a G4 iMac "flowerpot"
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11:58<cenoc>Hey all, im having some weird socket issue - would be very thankful for those that can take some time to look at it?
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11:58<cenoc>spent a bit of time trying to figure it out to no avail
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12:34<rled>Hi, how do I connect my Android Phone to my Debian system via USB? I've tried jmtpfs already.
12:36<Yst>rled: Connect in what way? Media transfer? Shared Internet connection?
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12:37<rled>Yst: Media transfer.
12:38<rled>Yst: Also Internet. Hadn't thought of that yet.
12:38<Yst>rled: That might depend on your desktop, but I installed the package "gvfs-backends" to get that to work. A restart might be required after installation, I forget.
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12:38<Yst>rled: For Internet sharing .... I still cannot figure out how to do that.
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12:39<rled>I would like to access my files on the phone rw... And use the phones Internet. But yes. How do you do it with gvfs-backends?
12:40-!-mtn [~mtn@] has joined #debian
12:40<Yst>With gvfs-backends installed, your mobile will show up as a media device in your file manager. Just click it to access the files.
12:40-!-jemadux [] has joined #debian
12:41<Yst>Then you can just drag and drop like with a USB drive.
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12:42<rled>Can you hang on? I'll reboot.
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12:44<Cenoc>I'm just going to bump my question for visibility (dont want to derail the discussion): I'm having some weird socket issue - would be very thankful for those that can take some time to look at it?
12:44<Yst>Cenoc: What kind of issue?
12:44<Yst>Oh, got it.
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12:45<Yst>rled: Does it work?
12:45<Cenoc>It's a weird socket issue i'm seeing; at this point I'm convinced it's something to do with socket permissions,
12:45<rled>Yst: I don't get the device in my FM.
12:45<Cenoc>But I cant find anything to back it up
12:45<Yst>rled: What desktop/file manager do you use?
12:46<rled>Yst: Openbox & SpaceFM
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12:48<Yst>rled: Can you run "aptitude search gvfs~i" on your command line, please?
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12:49<Yst>That file manager might not be compatible with GVFS, but I want to make sure all the correct packages are installed first.
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12:49<Yst>I used to use GFTP before GVFS was functional, but GFTP does not seem to be in the Debian 8 repository.
12:49<rled>Yst: It's installed.
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12:50<Yst>rled: I know it is installed, but what other packages does that search show?
12:51<arno>i wanna join egIRC channel somehow its not working could someone help me plesae
12:51<Yst>It was "gmtp", not "gftp". If all else fails, the "gmtp" package will help you, but last I checked, it had a couple issues.
12:51<Yst>arno: Is egIRC another network?
12:51<arno>i am new to xchat :)
12:52<Yst>Is it at #egIRC ? If so, type "/join #egIRC".
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12:53<Yst>You need the channel name to join though. The name should start with a pound sign if on this network.
12:53<rled>Yst: I'm not sure if this is what you wanted but gvfs-backends -commons and -daemons
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12:53<Yst>rled: Yeah, that is it. Hold on.
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12:54<rled>Yst: OK. With Nautilus I can see the device, but can't access it.
12:55<Yst>rled: Try installing "gvfs-bin", "gvfs", and "gvfs-libs".
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12:56<rled>Yst: Still the same: I can see the device but not access it.
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12:57<Yst>rled: Can you try restarting again? I really hate to suggest that because it is an icky Windows solution, but if I recall, GVFS is a pain like that.
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12:58<rled>Yst: Sure.
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13:01<Yst>If that does not work, the "gmtp" package contains a dedicated application that handles file transfers to and from the mobile, but it chokes on some file names and is otherwise less convenient.
13:01<Yst>rled: ^
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13:07<rled>Yst: Nope. Nothing works. I'm trying if even Bluetooth works.
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13:07<omi> I should really add deb vivid main universe to my repositories ??? I am on Debian!
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13:08<somiaj>No, you should not add ubuntu repos to a debian install.
13:09<omi>I am a beginner. Please can you give me every step i should do to install this pakage?
13:09<Yst>rled: THat is really bizarre.
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13:10<Yst>omi: What package name?
13:10<niklas>which package do you want to install
13:10<somiaj>,v python3-ghost
13:10<judd>Package: python3-ghost on amd64 -- jessie-backports: 0.2.3-1~bpo8+1; stretch: 0.2.3-1; sid: 0.2.3-1
13:10<somiaj>omi: seems it is in jessie-backports, so you can install from there if running jessie
13:10<somiaj>!tell omi about jessie-backports
13:10<rled>Yst: Can't even Bluetooth!
13:11<Yst>rled: Sorry, I cannot help with Bluetooth. My mobile has no Bluetooth and no Wi-Fi, so I do not have experience with those.
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13:11<Yst>rled: Did you try installing "gmtp"?
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13:11<Yst>Gmtp will not require a restart.
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13:12<Yst>It will add an application that should attempt to find your mobile over USB.
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13:12<niklas> here's a debian wiki link for bluetooth
13:12<Yst>rled: ^
13:14<niklas>describe me your problems and i will help you :)
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13:15<omi>Do I add deb jessie-backports main after every another lines of my repository or I just change the first line by this one?
13:15<SynrG>Add it
13:15-!-dotix [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:15<SynrG>Leave the other lines alone
13:15<rled>niklas: I've bought my first Pure Android Phone. I call it PAP. It's shiny and doesn't work. I'd like to connect it to my Debian Sid with a less shiny Openbox environment to transfer files and to use the phones Internet. Please help.
13:16<SynrG>It's supplementary
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13:16<somiaj>omi: as it's own line, before or after is irrilvent, orginze as you see fit.
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13:17<omi>Please stop bullying now.
13:17<Yst>Yeah, definitely add it, though it can come before or after. The order does not matter.
13:17<SynrG>omi: it only contains backports and is not a replacement for the lines you have there now.
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13:17<SynrG>omi: i think you misunderstood. Nobody is bullying you
13:18<niklas>rled: what phone is it?
13:18<rled>niklas: Huawei Nexus 6P
13:20<omi>Maybee it is exagerated but it is not pleasant to listen to "as it's own line, before or after is irrilvent, orginze as you see fit"
13:21<SynrG>omi: it appeared to somiaj you were worried about the order.
13:22<SynrG>I see no insult or even tinge of harshness there ...
13:23<SynrG>omi: Did those instructions work for you?
13:23<niklas>install gmtp
13:24<omi>After the instruction I have done apt-get update.
13:24<r4f_deb>somiaj is a Really Great Teacher !
13:24<niklas>its alvaible on synaptic
13:24<niklas>this should work
13:25<somiaj>omi: now apt-get -t jessie-backports install python3-ghost
13:25<rled>niklas: Doesn't with Openbox, but I'll try with Gnome. I'll be back in a few.
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13:25<somiaj>omi: you have to tell apt to install packages from jessie-backports, it won't pick them from jessie backports (or upgrade to them) with out your say so.
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13:25<omi>But the terminal returns the line is not valid
13:26<niklas>have you added "deb-src"
13:26<niklas>in the sources.list
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13:27<omi>No I have not added deb-src yet because I did not know I should.
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13:28<niklas>you must add it, otherwise it wont work
13:28<gusnan_>k you misunderstood. Nobody is bullying you
13:28<somiaj>omi: if you paste your sources.list at someone can spot any errors for you.
13:28<Yst>niklas: THe deb-src line is needed even if you are looking for binaries, not source?
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13:28<gusnan_>meh, copy middleclick paste error.. :/
13:29<omi>Trought I have not added deb-src it seem install nicely. But no importance. I am ready to follow your futures instractions to do it.
13:29<niklas>what do you want to install omi? please tell
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13:31<somiaj>deb-src should not be needed for a binary package. And a deb-src wouldn't change any mailformed lines currently in the sources.list
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13:31<somiaj>omi: so you got apt-get update to work or still need help with the syntax for the deb line for jessie-backports?
13:31<r4f_deb>omi, I was informed to use always stable and official repository or my Distro
13:32<omi>So I write deb-src jessie-backports main
13:32<omi>just after the first one?
13:32<r4f_deb>stability and performance is 100 % in this case
13:32<somiaj>omi: that is optional. To install the package you want you need just a deb line.
13:32<r4f_deb>and don't user repositories from other distros, such as Mint, Ubuntu..
13:33<r4f_deb>it will damage your system, if you act like that
13:33<omi>I do?
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13:34<somiaj>omi: yes. If you are unsure about your sources.list, paste it at and I'll look it over.
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13:35<niklas>just add deb vivid main universe
13:35<niklas>this should work
13:35<niklas>i've tried it and it worked
13:35<omi>it is a joke?
13:35<niklas>no its not a joke
13:36<somiaj>niklas: that is bad advise. You should not be adding ubuntu repos to debian. Please don't give users of debian such advise
13:36<somiaj>omi: It is bad advise, espically when the package you want is already made for jessie and provided by debian in jessie-backports.
13:36<r4f_deb>as I said before, Mint, Ubuntu, etc, are not compatible to Debian
13:36<r4f_deb>only use official Debian repositories, omi
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13:38<r4f_deb>you won't never regret, omi
13:38<r4f_deb>official Debian Jessie repositories offer much more than you want to
13:39<r4f_deb>and it is absolutely secure
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13:40<niklas>but you can add the ubuntu and then after installing removing it from the sources.list
13:40<r4f_deb>yes, you can remove it after, but you will damage the system when it's available in the sources.list
13:40<gusnan_>niklas: Why should you do that, when the program is available in Debian backports?
13:40<r4f_deb>I did this experience here
13:41<r4f_deb>and the result was not good
13:41<jhutchins>niklas: That will work sometimes, for some packages, but maintaining the system going forward that's always going to be a point of failure.
13:41<r4f_deb>now, I only use Official and Stable Repository. It runs and works fine
13:41<jhutchins>niklas: If you make a habit of doing that regularly you will eventually end up with a broken package system, and inevitably fixing that will lead to a broken system.
13:42<niklas>ok, it was only an idea
13:42<jhutchins>niklas: I think most of the people who warn you against it know because they tried it.
13:42<r4f_deb>omi, read this, please:
13:43<r4f_deb>don't make your Debian a 'FrankDebian'
13:44<r4f_deb>omi: Only using software from the Debian repositories is also much safer than installing from random websites which could bundle malware and other security risks.
13:46<r4f_deb>Ubuntu, Mint or other derivative repositories are not compatible with Debian!
13:46<somiaj>I think omi gets the point. If you need any more help getting that package from jessie-backports just ask. If you are having trouble with your sources.list, sharing a copy at is helps us better help you.
13:46<r4f_deb>omi, these passages I've printed here are from
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13:47<omi>Don't have poor etiquette when getting support!
13:47<omi>Of course.
13:48<r4f_deb>omi, I'm quite newbie on Debian Administration through command line, but People here are Nice Guy, who are always willing to help you
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13:49<r4f_deb>get your mind based on their experience, it will be quite useful for you, as it is being for me here
13:49<r4f_deb>my Debian Jessie 8.2 is Quite Stable; it turns off in 2 seconds
13:49<r4f_deb>quite fast, stable and Perfect !
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13:50<r4f_deb>Now I am just using official Debian Jessie repository. it is Ultra Stable
13:51<abrotman>Yeah, we got it ...
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13:53<omi>somiaj: Do I meet you another day?
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14:01-!-lydell is "realname" on #debian #awesome #
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14:05<r4f_deb>invest on Debian, omi, it's not only an Unix-like OS: it's simply the Best
14:05<r4f_deb>Complete for High Performance Server and for Desktop also
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14:33<lobata>we can't all run linux using just official repositories
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14:36<r4f_deb> why not, lobata ?
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14:36<r4f_deb>Debian official and stable repositories is the Debian way of doing things.
14:36<lobata>well, for one, sometimes we write our own software and run it.
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14:37<somiaj>r4f_deb: Debian doesn't include all software a user may want. Though there are "the debian way" to get newer versions or manage software not installed by debian.
14:37<r4f_deb>in my case I want a Precise and Complete OS, it is Perfect
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14:38<r4f_deb>in this case, to get these newer software, you should compiling it ?
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14:38<SynrG>r4f_deb: properly packaged software can be provided by third parties. however, in that case, they're on the hook to support it and we cannot help here.
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14:39<r4f_deb>I gave up using skype, although I installed in previous Debian Installations, just because it does not belong to official repository...
14:40<lobata>skype is almost essential :p
14:40<r4f_deb>do you use it ?
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14:41<r4f_deb>in your Debian System ?
14:41<lobata>no, i'm not running debian atm
14:41<SynrG>we should move this to #debian-offtopic, as it really doesn't relate to a support session
14:41<r4f_deb>yeah SynrG, sorry about it
14:41<SynrG>suffice it to say that while the ideal is people run all things provided from debian, some people use things not provided by debian. they are free to do that, but we can't support them here in that case.
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14:42<SynrG>nothing more really needs to be said about that, as it relates to support here
14:42-!-cyberanger [~cyberange@2604:a880:cad:d0::e:a001] has quit [Quit: ZNC -]
14:44<r4f_deb>You are right, SynrG, that's Truth !
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14:45<SynrG>and by "can't support them here" i hope you understand that means "can't support their use of that software". that doesn't mean the rest of their system isn't supported, unless the third-party software breaks it.
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14:46<r4f_deb>SynrG, is there a specific command to run in order to 'clean' Debian from temporary files ?
14:46<SynrG>check out the 'cruft' package
14:46<SynrG>also apt-get autoremove
14:46<SynrG>also, deborphan
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14:46<r4f_deb>yes, apt-get autoremove I use
14:47<r4f_deb>cruft is to be installed, so ?
14:47<r4f_deb>I'm installing cruft here
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14:49<SynrG>,v cruft-ng
14:49<judd>Package: cruft-ng on amd64 -- sid: 0.4.1; stretch: 0.4.1
14:49<SynrG>hm. not ready for stable yet :)
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15:01<r4f_deb>I can't understand what is happening to cruft here
15:01<lobata>,v bleachbit
15:01<judd>Package: bleachbit on amd64 -- squeeze: 0.8.0-1; wheezy: 0.9.2-2; jessie: 1.4-1; sid: 1.8-1; stretch: 1.8-1; experimental: 1.9.1-1
15:01<r4f_deb>I installed and typed: cruft: it started to run but does not return any message
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15:02<r4f_deb>cruft amd64 0.9.19
15:02<lobata>man cruft
15:02<r4f_deb>version which was installed here
15:03<abrotman>Please stop hitting enter so often
15:03<r4f_deb>perhaps it is better uninstall it ? It seems cruft is not running ok ...
15:04<r4f_deb>bleachbit and deporphan are utilities to be used through command line ?
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15:08<r4f_deb>bleachbit ran fine here
15:09<r4f_deb>good application !
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15:25<pedeb>debian introduces an "additional" (compared with openwrt) \n at the end of command "nslookup" is this a bug?
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15:33<musca>hello pedeb, where does this behaviour occur?
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15:39<pedeb>musca: I'm writing a script for debian and openwrt to get host IP, this way: nslookup $domain | tail $number1 | awk -v n=$number2 '{print $n}'
15:39<pedeb>this numbers, for debian are number1=-2 number2=2 and in openwrt number1=-1 number2=3
15:40<pedeb>because they give slightly different output
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15:40<pedeb>musca: hi musca, heheh ^
15:40<r4f_deb>Hi musca
15:40<r4f_deb>Hi pedeb
15:40<r4f_deb>Energy has gone here
15:40<r4f_deb>suffered shutdown
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15:45<pedeb>r4f_deb: you have too much energy
15:45<r4f_deb>I hope so
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15:45<r4f_deb>electricity has gone
15:46<r4f_deb>nobreak here has only 45 min autonomy
15:46<r4f_deb>Debian mustn't stop running
15:47<pedeb>r4f_deb: where happens this?
15:47-!-deltron [] has joined #debian
15:47<r4f_deb>electricity is interrupted everyday here
15:48-!-mode/#debian [+l 742] by debhelper
15:48<r4f_deb>so, I have to maitain my Debian Jessie Installation protected by a nobreak
15:48<r4f_deb>in order to prevent badblocks in my hd also
15:49<pedeb>but in what territory/zone happens this?
15:49<blast007>pedeb: openwrt is most likely using busybox's version of nslookup, so that one might behave differently
15:49<r4f_deb>São Paulo, Brazil, pedeb
15:50<pedeb>blast007: yes, and getent is only in glibc, and openwrt use other stuff x(
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15:51<pedeb>r4f_deb: so you have a UPS of 45 minutes? You could send a message from UPS to the server to shutdown gracefully
15:51<blast007>r4f_deb: is there a reason you can't just shut down your computer?
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15:52<r4f_deb>for testing, for I will use Debian jessie for a e-commerce environment next year, blast007
15:53<r4f_deb>I made a test last year with 7.2
15:53<r4f_deb> a Debian Server Configuration as Web Server
15:53<r4f_deb>for a factory here
15:54-!-exoplanet [~exoplanet@2001:1a50:11:0:5f:8f:ac3a:1] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:54<r4f_deb>Debian ran day by day, night by night, 24 hours per day, without interruption, during 1 year and 9 months
15:54<r4f_deb>and remained 100 % stable during this period
15:54<blast007>so you didn't install security updates for almost 2 years?
15:54<r4f_deb>I will do the same here
15:55<r4f_deb>I don't know, for I just monitored the system, blast007, but the person in question who installed and made all configuration did, I suppose
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15:56<r4f_deb>security updates requires any special command ?
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15:57<r4f_deb>I just intend to imitate him, but my Debian is just Desktop Environment, blast007
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15:58<r4f_deb>blast007, I had a problem yesterday, when I wasn't using nobreak, and an application has broken here: Nepomuk Cleaner
15:58<blast007>what brand and model is the UPS, and how is it attached to the server?
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15:58<r4f_deb>what is UPS ?
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15:59<blast007>I assume that's what you mean by "nobreak". It's a battery backup system for computers and eletronics.
15:59<r4f_deb>yes, that is right
15:59<mallas>hello evrybody
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16:00<r4f_deb>their UPS is a G&E model, but don't know exactly which model was
16:00<r4f_deb>for I just accessed the system through a remote konsole
16:01<r4f_deb>not in the CPD
16:02<blast007> (this is the hardware compatibility list for the 'nut' package in Debian)
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16:03<r4f_deb>ok, but see the portable model I use here for this purpose, blast007, please:
16:04<blast007>if that's the exact model as pictured, then I see absolutely no management interfaces on the back - so there's no way to do anything with that
16:05<r4f_deb>its well compatible to my Dell here
16:05<r4f_deb>runs fine
16:06<r4f_deb>and when I don't use it, as yesterday, I face problems afterwards
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16:06<r4f_deb>for example, I can't open Nepomuk Cleaner, it was damaged yesterday
16:06<r4f_deb>I was using the computer without nobreak yesterday, for its cable had to be replaced
16:07<r4f_deb>electricity was interrupted
16:07<blast007>so then it's not the same one as pictured, because the one pictured has no serial, USB, or network interface show:
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16:08<r4f_deb>it's bivolt, blast007 I use one of these plugs behind it
16:08<r4f_deb>pc is plugged into it
16:08<r4f_deb>don't need to use usb
16:08<blast007>for power?
16:09<blast007>I'm not talking about power, I'm talking about management and notification
16:09<blast007>data ports
16:09<r4f_deb>its battery remains working after 12 hours using it
16:09<blast007>how does your computer know that the power is out?
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16:09<blast007>it would need a serial, USB, or network port on the UPS
16:10<r4f_deb>it recognizes automatically when power is off and start running
16:10<r4f_deb>it is portable, not for a factory or enterprise
16:10<r4f_deb>it has a battery inside it
16:10<blast007>I'm not talking about the UPS knowing, I'm talking about how does the *computer* know
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16:12<r4f_deb>I don't know exactly, but I suppose the UPS manage the energy interruption, providing any delay energy for the computer
16:12<r4f_deb>for, it only makes a short noise, as a click
16:12<blast007>what is your goal here? are you wanting the computer to properly shut down when the UPS is running out of battery?
16:12<r4f_deb>and starts working, but computer does not suffer any interference in this process
16:13<r4f_deb>no, I just want it replace energy when it is interrupted, only this
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16:13<r4f_deb>computer does not shutdown in this case
16:13<r4f_deb>at least, it has never happened before...
16:14<blast007>replace energy? what do you mean?
16:14<r4f_deb>a bit difficult to explain it in english, but let me try it here...
16:14<r4f_deb>I use 110 volt in my home, ok ?
16:15<r4f_deb>but, when energy is interrupted, nobreaks starts working in the place or regular energy
16:16<r4f_deb>it replaces energy computer doesn't receive through 110 or 220 volt cable
16:16<r4f_deb>nobreak is plugged also
16:16<r4f_deb>but it has an internal battery - more or less 12 hours autonomy
16:16<r4f_deb>similar to a laptop
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16:17<r4f_deb>when you use it plugged in the energy, you don't need to use its battery included
16:17<blast007>right, I understand how a UPS works
16:17<r4f_deb>but, your laptop battery is being feeding for future emergency
16:17<blast007>there should be nothing you need to do to make use of it
16:17<blast007>the only reason you'd need to do something special is to make sure that your computer shuts down properly before the UPS runs out of battery power
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16:18<r4f_deb>I don't know if you are understanding by the same point of view I am here, but, the fact is this device works fine
16:19<blast007>right, so what are you trying to accomlish?
16:19<r4f_deb>sorry, what is accomlish ?
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16:19<r4f_deb>sorry for my incomplete english
16:19<blast007>what are you trying to do?
16:20<r4f_deb>I am newbie, not as yours, ahahah
16:20-!-washuu [~washuu@2001:4c50:200:8:600c:a1e2:7b8d:dca4] has joined #debian
16:20<r4f_deb>I just would like to know if my System properly configured will be able to run as the same case I told you
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16:21<r4f_deb>about other debian I monitored, when I was providing Consulting at the factory they used it
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16:21<r4f_deb>almost 2 years working without interruption, and running fine and fast
16:21<blast007>I have no idea what you are trying to do
16:21<r4f_deb>it impressed me a lot, that is why i intend to use Debian for an e-commerce Server next year
16:22<r4f_deb>only intend to maintain it running without interruption as long as possible
16:22<r4f_deb>only this !
16:22<r4f_deb>after our dialogue, I will ask you a help
16:22<r4f_deb>tried to do it, but with no success
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16:23<r4f_deb>I had Nepomuk Cleaner installed on another desktop, Debian jessie 8.2 also, the same as this one
16:24<r4f_deb>do you remember I was using a Debian Frank
16:24<r4f_deb>frankdebian in Debian jargon...
16:24<r4f_deb>some days ago
16:25<r4f_deb>I tried to open Nepomuk Cleaner, but when I clicked on its icon, it appeared the message: ' there was an error launching the application '....
16:25<blast007>the UPS you linked to have no management capabilities. So there is no way for the computer to know if the power is out, or how much battery is left. If the power is out for a long time and the battery runs out, the computer will just lose power.
16:27<r4f_deb>yes, as I said you, its autonomy is only 12 hours, more or less
16:27<r4f_deb>not more than it
16:27<r4f_deb>it is for home, not for office
16:27<r4f_deb>it is quite similar a notebook battery
16:28<r4f_deb>the same energy management, but with higher notebook battery autonomy
16:28<r4f_deb>haven't you seen this kind of nobreak before ?
16:28<r4f_deb>don't understand what is your doubt or exact question, for it runs fine here
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16:29<r4f_deb>do you think this kind of device is not useful ?
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16:29<blast007>it's quite different from a notebook battery... it's a lead acid battery, not a lithium-ion. It's more similar to a car battery.
16:30<r4fkramer_>don't you have any of this model in your country ?
16:31<r4fkramer_>well, in your country, surely there are more advanced options than this one...
16:31<blast007>no, this is the first I heard of it
16:31<r4fkramer_>sorry, where are you from blast007 ?
16:31<r4fkramer_>USA ?
16:32<blast007>I'd also be surprised if you get even 6 hours out of it. A similar model from APC has an estimated run time of 70 minutes with a 100 watt load/
16:32<blast007>At 400 watts, the runtime drops to about 16 minutes.
16:32<r4fkramer_>ahahaha, no, its autonomy ir more or less 12 hours !
16:33<blast007>maybe if you're charging a cell phone..
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16:33<blast007>I think the 12 hours listed is how long it takes to *recharge* the battery after is has drained down to 10% remaining
16:34<blast007>after it*
16:34<r4fkramer_>I will send you this model through post 0ffice, it will be your Christmas gift ahaahaha
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16:34<blast007>so it will drain completely in about 90 minutes at most, and then take ~12 hours to recharge
16:35<r4fkramer_>well, I never used it for more than 45 minutes yet... don't know, but I think it will work, as described
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16:35<r4fkramer_>let me see here:
16:35<r4fkramer_>it is more or less about 8 kg
16:35<r4fkramer_>not more than it...
16:35<r4fkramer_>more or less
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16:36<blast007>how would you know? there is no display that shows remaining battery life, there is no management port you can talk to.. it's a very low end model for a single computer.
16:37<r4f_deb>I am obligated to have the same opinion; it does not seem to be sophisticated enough
16:37-!-r4fkramer_ [~r4fkramer@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:37<r4f_deb>blast007, can you help me with the previous issue I have passed you ?
16:38<blast007>what was that?
16:38<r4f_deb>we go back to nobreak subject after, if you would like
16:38<r4f_deb>but, I would like to solve this problem
16:38<r4f_deb>I can't open Neopmuk Cleaner anymore
16:38-!-ao2 [~ao2@2001:1418:117::1] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
16:38<r4f_deb>on the desktop icon, when I click on it, appears the following message ; there was an error launching the application
16:39<blast007>no idea
16:39<r4f_deb>what has happened
16:39<blast007>I don't use GUIs on my linux systems
16:39<Brigo>r4f_deb, try launching the applicacion from a terminal
16:39<r4f_deb>ok Brigo
16:39<r4f_deb>don't you use anymore ?
16:40<r4f_deb>is it a Server ?
16:40<r4f_deb>I suppose I have to type: nepomukcleaner, right, Brigo ?
16:41<Brigo>r4f_deb, i don't know, i have never used it.
16:41<r4f_deb>in this case, it replies: command not found
16:41<Brigo>r4f_deb, does /usr/bin/nepomukcleaner exists?
16:42<r4f_deb>let me see here, good suggestion.
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16:43<r4f_deb>root@r4f:~# cd /usr/bin/nepomukcleaner
16:43<r4f_deb>-su: cd: /usr/bin/nepomukcleaner: No such file or directory
16:43<Brigo>is nepomuk-core-runtime installed?
16:43<Brigo>r4f_deb, not cd, ls -l /usr/bin/nepomukcleaner:
16:43<Brigo>r4f_deb, not cd, ls -l /usr/bin/nepomukcleaner
16:43<r4f_deb>don't know, only can't understand why it happens
16:44<r4f_deb>ls: cannot access /usr/bin/nepomukcleaner: No such file or directory
16:44-!-joelkraehemann [~joelkraeh@] has joined #debian
16:44<r4f_deb>in the case, it is not installed here, right, Brigo ?
16:45<Brigo>dpkg -l epomuk-core-runtime will tell you
16:45<dpkg>ii epomuk-core-runtime will tell you 1.7-14.1 brigo's private stamp collection
16:45<abrotman>stamp collection eh?
16:46<r4f_deb>dpkg-query: no packages found matching nepomuk-core-runtime
16:46<Brigo>abrotman, first news :)
16:46<Brigo>r4f_deb, then yes, it isn't installed
16:47<r4f_deb>ok, but why can't I install it so ?
16:47<r4f_deb>I tried here: apt-get install nepomukcleaner
16:47<Brigo>apt-get install nepomuk-core-runtime (as root)
16:47<r4f_deb>yes, I did it here
16:48<dpkg>The enter key is not a substitute for punctuation. Hitting enter unnecessarily makes it difficult to follow what you are saying. Consider using ',', '. ', ';', '...', '---', or ':' instead. If you hit enter too often, you will be autokicked by debhelper for flooding the channel.
16:48<r4f_deb>thanks dpkg
16:49<r4f_deb>thanks ? is dpkg a bot ?
16:49<Brigo>r4f_deb, dpkg is a bot, thanks abrotman instead :)
16:49<abrotman>r4f_deb: STOP HITTING ENTER
16:49<r4f_deb>I've already read the dpkg message, abrotman...
16:50<r4f_deb>Brigo, thanks for help, fixed issue here
16:50<dpkg>Another happy customer leaves the building.
16:50<abrotman>it's been going on all day
16:50<Brigo>r4f_deb, yw :)
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16:55<r4f_deb>just didn' understand why you can't hitting enter, copy and paste messages from terminal to channel. Anyone could me explain the reason, please ?
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16:56<r4f_deb>question asked only to understand the reason for the rule, and not to question it ...
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16:58-!-mode/#debian [+l 731] by debhelper
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16:59<r4f_deb>well, no answer....
16:59<r4f_deb>Bye Brigo, blast007, thanks for Help and Support !
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17:00<r4f_deb>Bye abrotman, Thanks for attention and Advices !
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17:05<F3d04a>Quick question: Why doesn't grub2 load after I run the Windows installer?
17:05-!-yohnnyjoe [~yohnnyjoe@2601:143:8201:585e:fa1e:dfff:fed7:1ace] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.3]
17:05<blast007>because the Windows installer overwrite it with it's own bootloader
17:06<F3d04a>Is there a way around that?
17:06<blast007>you'll need to re-run the grub installer after installing Windows
17:06-!-Rosco2 [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
17:06<F3d04a>That's not what I mean
17:06<F3d04a>When I installed the Debian ISO to USB drive there is an installer.
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17:07<blast007>Install Windows first, or reinstall grub afterwards. Those are your options.
17:07<dpkg>To reinstall <GRUB> boot to your Debian install disk/live CD, switch to the other console (Alt-F2), mount your root filesystem (mount -t ext2 /dev/whatever /target ; mount --bind /dev /target/dev ; mount -t proc none /target/proc ; mount -t sysfs none /target/sys), chroot into it (chroot /target), run "mount /boot/efi" on EFI and "update-grub && grub-install /dev/whatever". See also <rescue mode>, <dual boot guide>, <supergrub>.
17:07-!-whoaski [] has joined #debian
17:08<whoaski>what up y'all !
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17:09<dpkg>#debian is primarily a support channel for Debian users. Please keep the discussions in #debian on-topic and take longer discussions and non-support questions to #debian-offtopic. Imagine the chaos if each of the hundreds of people in the channel felt the need to wander off topic for a few minutes every day.
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17:10<F3d04a>I am already using Windows
17:10<F3d04a>I am trying to get Debian
17:10-!-berten [] has joined #debian
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17:10<abrotman>F3d04a: is Debian already installed?
17:11<F3d04a>I ran the installer found on the ISO(Specifically Live MATE 64-bit) and it said I could boot grub from the Windows bootloader
17:11<F3d04a>The option was there so I pressed it
17:11-!-link [~linkbounc@] has quit []
17:11<F3d04a>And then I got a Windows Boot Manager error saying that the Grub2 MBR wasn't found on the USB
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17:12<whoaski>f3d are you tring to run it live off a usb stick? or you tring to run it off an internal hard drive?
17:13<F3d04a>USB stick
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17:14<F3d04a>Windows Explorer confirms g2ldr.mbr is there but the bootloader can't find it.
17:14<whoaski>it it a specific live version of debian or the 386/64 iso of debian?
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17:14<F3d04a>It is MATE Live 64-bit
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17:16<whoaski>sorry, from what i know you don't need to install grub. you can just make a live usb with persistence am i wrong?
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17:18<whoaski>but if you want to just boot to the usb everytime you will need to install grub on the mbr of the windows machine, and grub should find the iso on the usb stick
17:18<F3d04a>I'm going to install it to the HDD
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17:18<F3d04a>I've done it before
17:19<F3d04a>Maybe it is because I am using an EFI system?
17:19<whoaski>and you what want to dual boot? or wipe windows off completly?
17:19-!-radio_nowhere [~charles@2001:48f8:1052:fb0:1a3d:a2ff:fe9e:14c] has joined #debian
17:19<F3d04a>Wipe Windows 8.1
17:19<whoaski>oh i ran into that
17:19-!-berten [] has joined #debian
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17:19<F3d04a>But as you see it didn't do a thing if I am using Windows right now
17:20<F3d04a>But again, the error was that it couldn't find g2ldr.mbr on the USB
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17:21<whoaski>all the windows installers didn't write the iso correctly to the usb stick for me. i had to boot into a live version of debian and in the terminal used the dd command to write the iso to the usb stick and that worked for me
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17:22<F3d04a>Which I can't do because I'm using EFI and lost access to the BIOS
17:22<F3d04a>Secure Boot should be off however
17:22-!-berten [] has quit []
17:22<F3d04a>Also if you are wondering what I used to write the ISO I used UNetBootin
17:23-!-kelsoo__ [] has joined #debian
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17:23<whoaski>yeah same here unetbootin, so you are locked out of your bios?
17:23<F3d04a>It forced me to make a password to disable Secure Boot
17:23<blast007>F3d04a: the live images only support legacy boot, afaik.
17:24<F3d04a>And appearently I made a typo in the password
17:24<F3d04a>So I'm locked out
17:24<blast007>is it a laptop? desktop?
17:24<F3d04a>Acer Aspire Switch 10
17:24<F3d04a>It's a hybrid tablet-laptop
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17:25<blast007>oh.. good luck then... :/
17:25<abrotman>Don't use unetbootin
17:25<abrotman>it's a broken pile of crap
17:25<F3d04a>What should I use then?
17:25-!-john [] has joined #debian
17:25<abrotman>dpkg: tell F3d04a about win32diskimager
17:25<whoaski>there has to be a rest button/clear cmos
17:25<F3d04a>Can't I just re-write the MBR with Windows Debug mode?
17:26-!-Dancus [] has joined #debian
17:26<F3d04a>That is if that is the only thing wrong with it
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17:26<SynrG>we don't know how unetbootin mangled it. use the right tool and it will go well
17:27<SynrG>try something else, and we can't guarantee results. i have my doubts.
17:27<abrotman>whoaski: that has nothing to do with it
17:27<F3d04a>The MD5 of the disc matches the one of the ISO
17:27<F3d04a>And the one of the ISO matches the MD5 provided on the site
17:28<F3d04a>Plus the CRC32's of the GPT at LBA 2 and LBA -1 check out
17:28<F3d04a>So I think the disc image is fine
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17:28<whoaski>I was thinking the installer formatted his efi partition as mbr
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17:28<F3d04a>If it did then multiple partitions are impossible
17:28-!-measter [] has quit []
17:28<blast007>F3d04a: from the manual for your product: "Do not forget your Supervisor Password! If you forget your password, please get in touch with your dealer or an authorized service center."
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17:28<F3d04a>Not to mention MBR is at LBA 1 not LBA 2
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17:29<F3d04a>blast007: I don't have extra money to spend.
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17:29<F3d04a>Is there a way to use something like ELILO?
17:29<blast007>F3d04a: just saying, sounds like there is no way to clear the password you set on the BIOS
17:30<F3d04a>As long as I use EFI I don't need the BIOS
17:30<whoaski>i would try to flash the bios if possible
17:30<F3d04a>You can't flash EFI afaik
17:30<blast007>that's not what I mean. I mean the settings for your system. Whatever they call that now.
17:30<F3d04a>Control Panel?
17:31<blast007>the thing you set the password on
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17:31<blast007>UEFI setup utility
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17:31<F3d04a>That sounds just about right
17:32-!-radio_nowhere [~charles@2001:48f8:1052:fb0:1a3d:a2ff:fe9e:14c] has joined #debian
17:32<blast007>you might even need that password to boot from an alternate device now
17:32<F3d04a>So I'm locked out now?
17:33<blast007>(I at least had a similar situation with a Dell Latitude laptop where it required the supervisor password for a network boot and some other boot options)
17:33<F3d04a>Latitude is easy to fix
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17:34<whoaski>i'm just wondering if there is a button combo that can get you there like on android, home and vol up button pressed while turning it on. i don't know about your hard ware though
17:35<blast007>that's why I kinda dread these unservicable systems like that acer hybrid
17:36<blast007>whoaski: the actual manual gave no indiciation there was such a thing, and the system probably can't be opened easily since it's basically a tablet with a detachable keyboard, using soldered on CPU/RAM/flash
17:36<F3d04a>Does that mean I will have to use a jumper?
17:36<blast007>it might not even have a jumper
17:36<F3d04a>I have a ton
17:36<F3d04a>From old computers I recycled
17:37<blast007>I mean, there may not be a spot *for* a jumper
17:37<F3d04a>But isn't there a way to find the schematics for a CMOS?
17:37<blast007>you bought a disposable computer
17:38<F3d04a>It's made out of the same things other computers are
17:38-!-Treylis [~quassel@2605:6400:2:fed5:22:0:bd1e:e69c] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
17:38<whoaski>have you went to acer and looked to see if there is a way to flash the bios?
17:39<blast007>but unlike other computers, they don't want you to be able to service any aspect of it. Thus why they tell you to contact the dealer or service center for something as simple as clearing the supervisor password, something that normally just takes a jumper or battery removal to fix.
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17:39<F3d04a>I have an idea
17:39<blast007>if it's a new product, you probably have a warranty with support that you could call
17:40<F3d04a>What is the CMOS chip they use
17:40<F3d04a>Also I don't have a warranty
17:40<F3d04a>Which is why I didn't contact Acer
17:40-!-lfam [~lfam@2601:47:4100:ffa5:5d03:d3a6:2a2:46b7] has joined #debian
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17:40<F3d04a>Plus I'm pretty sure it isn't new because I get all the old tech nobody wants anymore
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17:42<lfam>I have a fresh installation of Debian Jessie. When I do `systemctl --user status` as non-root, I get "Failed to get D-Bus connection: Connection refused". What do I need to do to get systemd user sessions working in Jessie?
17:43-!-Treylis [~quassel@2605:6400:2:fed5:22:0:bd1e:e69c] has joined #debian
17:43<lfam>Jessie is systemd version 215, btw
17:43<F3d04a>Have you tried using root prev. first?
17:44<SynrG>that should work
17:44<lfam>F3d04a: root doesn't have a user session either. Same error. Of course, `systemctl status` works.
17:44<SynrG>it works on my jessie system, at least
17:44<blast007>F3d04a: does that system even support legacy booting? I have a Zotac ZBOX mini PC with that chip, and it only has 32-bit UEFI boot support.
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17:44<lfam>SynrG: What systemd versoin are you using?
17:44<SynrG>215, same as you. it's jessie ..
17:45<F3d04a>blast007: Yes, if I put a password on it first. Which is what I did before I locked myself out
17:45<SynrG>so it's environmental for you, i guess
17:45<whoaski>f3do4a i don't know man
17:45<SynrG>something tells it to talk to a d-bus session that isn't talking to you
17:45<blast007>F3d04a: disabling secure boot doesn't mean it's legacy boot. It just means it's UEFI boot without secure boot.
17:45<lfam>SynrG: It's this way on the offical EC2 images, also. At least it was a month or so ago.
17:45<F3d04a>It has worked before on other machines.
17:46<SynrG>don't know anything about the EC2 images
17:46<F3d04a>Also are you sure I HAVE to use UEFI to boot into Debian?
17:46<blast007>F3d04a: the chip in that thing isn't a typical desktop/laptop processor. It's really designed for tablets.
17:46<F3d04a>That means it's an ARM model
17:47<blast007>F3d04a: no, it's x86. It's just a low powered Intel Atom.
17:47<F3d04a>Okay then
17:47<F3d04a>What's the serial number?
17:48<lfam>SynrG: I'm just saying that in the official installation images this feature of systemd is broken.
17:48<blast007>model number you mean? Z3735F
17:48<SynrG>lfam: how did you start whatever session you're in? gdm3? something else?
17:48<F3d04a>Okay then
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17:48<lfam>SynrG: It's headless, so no X at all.
17:48<SynrG>lfam: and i'm saying it's environmental somehow, and not a systemd bug
17:48<lfam>SynrG: But it was working before. Yes, I don't think it's a systemd bug because it was working before. I had to reinstall the system because something unrelated broke.
17:49<SynrG>not sure why it would think it should talk to dbus, then
17:49<lfam>SynrG: But I noticed that it didn't work on EC2 so I knew it was tenuous.
17:49<SynrG>did you connect via ssh -X ?
17:49-!-xayto [~x@] has joined #debian
17:49<lfam>SynrG: No, plain SSH. I also had it connected to a monitor using the kernel framebuffer, interacting at the console.
17:50<whoaski>i got a networking question, i got 4 machines all running debian networked through a dumb switch. im thinking i should make them all static but only one machine supplies internet.
17:50-!-pyfgcrl [~francis8@2001:8b0:faa9:fd4:24e3:dac1:d566:ab3b] has joined #debian
17:50<SynrG>lfam: is systemd actually running as pid 0?
17:50-!-mic_e [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:51-!-pyfgcrl [~francis8@2001:8b0:faa9:fd4:24e3:dac1:d566:ab3b] has quit []
17:51<lfam>SynrG: yes
17:51-!-fakeuser [~emacsuser@2001:8b0:faa9:fd4:24e3:dac1:d566:ab3b] has joined #debian
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17:52<whoaski>even though it's a dumb switch is there a way to control network traffic on this setup?
17:54<SynrG>er, as pid1, i mean
17:54<F3d04a>I found the documentation on the Z3537F
17:54<F3d04a>The UEFI data isn't there
17:54<F3d04a>Just the CPU data
17:55<SynrG>lfam: does systemctl otherwise show you useful info, when run as root?
17:55<F3d04a>Is there a way to install Debian from Windows without the use of the BIOS?
17:55<lfam>SynrG: `systemctl status` works as expected as root and non-root.
17:56<SynrG>lfam: is there a /run/systemd/users/ file for the pid of the user that gets this error?
17:56<SynrG>er, for the uid of the user, i mean
17:57<whoaski>sorry it's not a dumb switch it's a smart switch.
17:57<lfam>SynrG: Yes
17:57<F3d04a>SynrG: Are you looking for UIDs?
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17:59<SynrG>lfam: that file lists sessions, but i'm stuck at that point. don't know what tool to use to check your sessions
17:59<berten>Hi, I have a ssh/vnc question. My NAS at home is the only device reachable from outside for security reasons. I ssh into it and from there I ssh to other nodes. Is it even possible to vnc some of the 'other devices' over the 2 ssh sessions?
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18:00<lfam>SynrG: Thanks for trying. I've spent so much time on this issue before and there is nothing on the net that seems to explain it. I think that user sessions are basically unreliable at systemd 215.
18:00<SynrG>lfam: i still think it's environmental
18:01<lfam>SynrG: By unreliable I mean undocumented. Nobody seems to know how to set this up
18:01<SynrG>lfam: ask at #debian-systemd who can provide an expert opinion
18:01<radio_nowhere>lfam: Probably something to do with being virtual? I get the same message on my DO VPS.
18:01<lfam>I didn't know about that channel. Thanks
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18:01<lfam>radio_nowhere: It's on bare metal
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18:02<SynrG>lfam: it's just that you did mention noticing the same issue for EC2 images. so maybe that's a different problem
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18:03<beepie>the freenode is down
18:03<lfam>SynrG: Yeah, I really don't know. I tried a bunch of EC2 distro images looking for one that worked. It worked on Fedora and NixOS.
18:03<beepie>for me it is
18:03<F3d04a>beepie: Check your proxy settings and anything that could block your connection.
18:04<beepie>im in montreal
18:04<beepie>i dont use proxies
18:04<beepie>it tries 2 or 3 servers, tried for 3 minutes... no connection
18:04<abrotman>beepie: Do you need help with Debian?
18:04<beepie>apparently there's a #freenode
18:04<beepie>on here.. so i'll see about it
18:04<abrotman>okay then ..
18:04<radio_nowhere>I think they are having problems with a ddos.
18:05<beepie>radio_nowhere, ok
18:05<F3d04a>This is kind of off-topic
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18:05<SynrG>lfam: hm. and i tried again on a second jessie system. can't reproduce your issue.
18:05<beepie>it's actually on topic... i can't connect to freenode, but anyways i said i'm checking on the #freenode channel ok?
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18:06<abrotman>beepie: Do you need help with Debian? we can't help you with Freenode connectivity issues
18:06<blast007>beepie: freenode is indeed under a DDoS attack
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18:06<beepie>blast007, ok that confirms two.. thanks
18:06<beepie>abrotman, i said i'm on #freenode bye.
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18:07<blast007>if he was on #freenode, then he apparently didn't read the /topic about how they are under a DDoS attack ;)
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18:44<vrishab>Hi .. I have a list of .deb files .. ( say, 20 files ) which have dependencies within them .. I want to install them in a way that is most clean .. dpkg -i followed by apt-get install -f is ok .. but is there a cleaner approach ?
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18:47<vrishab>I'm not sure about the order of dependencies .. but these 20 debs are self sufficient within them ... tried a dpkg -i *.deb .. it installs in the wrong order and issues "breaks" errors ..
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18:51<vrishab>doing a gdebi *.deb ...
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20:03<r4f_deb>Hi abrotman, I would like to now about rules here, for, it is not my intention I do not want to break the rules. On the contrary, I always act respecting the rules here, because respect them, means respecting the channel and all of you, who are always helping me.
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20:05<twb>Hm, so apt only needs gpgv to install packages? Its dependency on gnupg is just for apt-key to do the initial setup of the trusted keyring?
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22:58<raul>can anyone help me?
22:58<joe-public>That is unknown. You haven´t asked a question.
22:58<raul>could you please tell me where do i find my startup manager?
22:59<twb>raul: you mean for your desktop environment?
22:59<twb>are you using XFCE?
22:59<raul>yes, i am
22:59<twb>Apps > Settings > Session Manager, I think
23:00<raul>by Apps, you mean Accesories?
23:01<raul>Already found it. Thank you very much kind person.
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23:01<twb>No worries
23:01<joe-public>Just curious, where was it? I just have lxde and mate here
23:02<raul>Accesories -> Aplication finder
23:02<raul>"startup" in the textbox
23:02<raul>then you just have to click on it
23:02<raul>well, double click
23:02<joe-public>Thank you.
23:02<raul>youre welcome
23:02<twb>That sounds like you use the non-standard start menu
23:03<raul>i havent installed another menu.
23:03<raul>i just have four days using debian
23:03<twb>Um, whiskermenu is what I mean
23:03<raul>not sure how to install another menu hehe
23:03<twb>maybe it is the default now
23:05<raul>i found the right way. Menu-> Settings-> Session and startup
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23:05<twb>Yeah sorry, I checked but by the time I got back to my desk, you had already found it :-)
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23:05<raul>erm... may i ask you a question?
23:05<twb>You can ask another one, yes :P
23:06<raul>i have been installing libraries in order to install programs, i just saw that some older programs that i had pre-installed look like they were removed
23:06<raul>is that normal?
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23:06<twb>Such as?
23:07<joe-public>in general, you just install the programs and the package manager will install whatever libraries are necessary...
23:07<twb>If you used apt/dpkg, there will be a log
23:07<raul>well, i have this "Jovie" program with a red X
23:07<raul>and it doesnt execute
23:07<twb>Is jovie installed?
23:08<raul>how do i check that?
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23:09<joe-public>asking, at the terminal, dpkg -l |grep jovie would return nothing if no, and a short description of jovie if yes
23:09<twb>Or "dpkg -l jovie"
23:10<raul>| Status=Not/Inst/Conf-files/Unpacked/halF-conf/Half-inst/trig-aWait/Trig-pend
23:10<raul>|/ Err?=(none)/Reinst-required (Status,Err: uppercase=bad)
23:10<joe-public>yeah, just dpkg -l jovie gives you several header lines
23:11<raul>||/ Name Version Architecture Description
23:11<raul>ii jovie 4:4.14.2-1 amd64 text-to-speech system
23:11<raul>isnt it installed?
23:11<joe-public>so it is listed ii and therefore it's installed.
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23:11<raul>maybe another program damaged the libraries that it used, right?
23:12<twb>Try running jovie in the terminal
23:12<joe-public>in general, programs don't interfere with libraries; the package manager does it for them, and keeps good track.
23:12<raul>jovie in terminal is "jovie -d", right?
23:13<twb>I don't know
23:13<twb>I would run it without argument and see what happens
23:13<twb>If it is a library problem, it will probably say something like "could not load"
23:13<raul>QDBusConnection: session D-Bus connection created before QCoreApplication. Application may misbehave.
23:14<raul>it looks like its a deep problem
23:14<twb>That is interesting
23:14<twb>What does this say? echo $DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS $DBUS_SESSION_BUS_PID
23:14<raul>no, just that
23:15<twb>It doesn't print anything?
23:15<raul>no, just the message i just copied here
23:15<raul>it prints it twice
23:15<twb>Run the echo command I gave
23:15<joe-public>He means for you to copy/paste or type that command, echo $DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS $DBUS_SESSION_BUS_PID
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23:16<twb>jovie is trying to talk to other parts of the system using "dbus", an inter-process communication (IPC) framework.
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23:16<twb>OK so you had data in that variable, so dbus *is* running, or at least *was* running.
23:16<twb>try this: ps fux | grep dbus
23:17<twb>You should get a line like this:
23:17<twb>twb 1843 0.0 0.0 42100 784 ? Ss 09:56 0:00 /usr/bin/dbus-daemon --fork --print-pid 6 --print-address 8 --session
23:17<raul>raul 1324 0.0 0.0 10688 340 ? Ss 23:19 0:00 \_ /usr/bin/ssh-agent /usr/bin/dbus-launch --exit-with-session x-session-manager
23:17<raul>raul 2446 0.0 0.0 12720 2256 pts/0 S+ 23:47 0:00 \_ grep dbus
23:17<raul>raul 1454 0.0 0.0 42116 3528 ? S 23:19 0:00 \_ /usr/bin/dbus-daemon --config-file=/etc/at-spi2/accessibility.conf --nofork --print-address 3
23:17<raul>raul 1328 0.0 0.0 42812 3156 ? Ss 23:19 0:00 /usr/bin/dbus-daemon --fork --print-pid 5 --print-address 7 --session
23:17-!-raul was kicked from #debian by debhelper [flood. Please use instead.]
23:18<joe-public>A simple yes would suffice :)
23:19<twb>Is it interesting that the grep was in the middle. That might mean dbus is running somewhere else from the terminal
23:19<twb>We do not actually know if dbus is the problem, though
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23:20<joe-public>when I grep my ps fux here, my grep's in the middle too, fwiw
23:20<twb>raul: is there anything interesting in .xsession-errors ?
23:20<twb>joe-public: fair enough. I start dbus &c in a weird way so it's probably just me
23:21<joe-public>raul seems to have left irc after being kicked for flood.
23:21*twb twiddles thumbs
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---Logclosed Mon Nov 30 00:00:08 2015