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#debian IRC Logs for 2015-12-02

---Logopened Wed Dec 02 00:00:30 2015
---Daychanged Wed Dec 02 2015
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00:37<samsagaz>,v virtualbox
00:37<judd>Package: virtualbox on amd64 -- squeeze-backports: 4.1.18-dfsg-2+deb7u4~bpo60+1; wheezy: 4.1.18-dfsg-2+deb7u5; wheezy-proposed-updates: 4.1.42-dfsg-1+deb7u1; wheezy-security: 4.1.42-dfsg-1+deb7u1; wheezy-backports/contrib: 4.3.18-dfsg-2~bpo70+1; jessie/contrib: 4.3.18-dfsg-3+deb8u3; jessie-proposed-updates/contrib: 4.3.32-dfsg-1+deb8u2; jessie-security/contrib: 4.3.32-dfsg-1+deb8u2; jessie-
00:37<judd>backports/contrib: 5.0.10-dfsg-3~bpo8+1; stretch/contrib: 5.0.10-dfsg-3; sid/contrib: 5.0.10-dfsg-4
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00:43<Neytiri>does anyone have any expirence installing smbind on debain 8.2?
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00:48<cat>floodserv is down
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00:57<Neytiri>does anyone have any expirence installing smbind on debain 8.2? or know why i am gettin gthe above errors
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00:58<Neytiri>http://pastebin.com/PNz5TjiT
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01:02<jm_>this package is no longer in debian 8.2
01:03<jm_>is your /bin/sh bash or dash?
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01:04<jm_>ahh it doesn't matter, both would report an error, trivial to fix in any case
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01:08<Neytiri>so bacically what your saying is i need to use a older version of debian?
01:09<jm_>no, that wouldn't be very future proof
01:10<jm_>https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=731679 - why it was removed
01:10<judd>Bug http://bugs.debian.org/731679 in ftp.debian.org (closed): «RM: smbind -- ROM; No longer maintained upstream»; severity: normal; opened: 2013-12-08; last modified: 2014-01-09.
01:10<Neytiri>well waht do you sugest for easy management of 30+ domains across 11 DNS servers
01:10<jm_>so not worth bothering with it
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01:24<tres>is there a raspian or raspberry pi specific channel on this net?
01:24<somiaj>!raspbian
01:24<somiaj>!raspian
01:24*tres slaps forehead for misspelling it
01:24<tres>thanks
01:25<dpkg>Raspbian is a distribution <based on Debian> made specifically for the <Raspberry Pi>. Raspbian is not Debian and it is not supported in #debian. Please use #raspbian on irc.freenode.net for support. http://www.raspbian.org/
01:25<dpkg>Raspbian is a distribution <based on Debian> made specifically for the <Raspberry Pi>. Raspbian is not Debian and it is not supported in #debian. Please use #raspbian on irc.freenode.net for support. http://www.raspbian.org/
01:25<jm_>hah it knows both
01:25<somiaj>haha
01:25<tres>But neither exist
01:25<somiaj>it was just being slow, anyways not this network you'll have switch over to irc.freenode.net
01:26<tres>Thanks for all the fish. ;)
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02:50<Neytiri>?
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04:01<anonymous>hello :D
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05:01<jeeger>Greetings! I have a problem with journalctl -k not outputting kernel messages, and cat /dev/kmsg gives me "invalid argument". What could be the problem here?
05:02<cat>idk
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06:39<Guest36>hi
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07:01<patwotrik>I want to install kazam, but it says that I need to uninstall a whole lot of packages. How do I get around it?
07:01<patwotrik>http://pastebin.com/Tj76Yxg6
07:01<bremner>is that really a debian stable system?
07:02<patwotrik>ups sorry
07:02<patwotrik>wrong channel
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07:48<grove>Is there anywhere that can tell me when a given package was upgraded in jessie-backports? (like packages.qa.debian.org can for testing) - Is that more of a question for debian-next?
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07:49<grove>s/packages.qa/tracker/
07:50<jm_>checked https://lists.debian.org/debian-backports-changes/ ?
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07:53<grove>jm_: I didn't know that list existed, it has provided me the information I was looking for, but an interface like tracker would have been better for this
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07:56<SynrG>grove: check for bugs against tracker/file a wishlist
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08:10<samsagaz_>hey guys, i have a question.... i have some friends in facebook that write in korean, but i just see all squares 되었습니다 instead hangul characters, someone know what i need to install to add korean support to the texts?
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08:12<samsagaz_>for example korean sites looks wrong too, for example http://www.fomos.kr/
08:12<samsagaz_>i set default encoding to utf-8
08:12<oct>samsagaz_: I see proper characters in your message... what browser are you using?
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08:13<samsagaz_>well, i tested in chromium and konqueror and dont see these characters :/
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08:13<oct>samsagaz_: whats the output of dpkg -l | grep font
08:13<jm_>probably missing font packages
08:13<SynrG>apt-cache search Korean fonts
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08:14<samsagaz_>oh, let me check
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08:16<samsagaz_>apt-get install fonts-alee fix it in konqueror, but not in chromium ,but im in the right path
08:16<samsagaz_>thanks guys
08:16<samsagaz_>looks like an missing font
08:17<SynrG>Great
08:17<SynrG>Good luck
08:17<SynrG>Caching problem maybe?
08:18<SynrG>There's some xset for that i think
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08:18<SynrG>xset fp rehash
08:18<SynrG>Maybe
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08:21<samsagaz_>No protocol specified
08:21<samsagaz_>xset: unable to open display ":0"
08:21<samsagaz_>maybe reboot?
08:22<SynrG>Not in X?
08:22<SynrG>Oh
08:22<SynrG>Not as root
08:22<samsagaz_>oh, wait :D
08:23<samsagaz_>as user command run without error
08:23<samsagaz_>but chromium still display squares
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08:23<samsagaz_>in konqueror works, will search google forums
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08:24<SynrG>Did you exit and restart chromium?
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08:26<SynrG>I don't know if that don't cache is used for just xfonts or also truetype
08:27<samsagaz_>yes, exit and restart of course.
08:29<SynrG>What's the encoding of that page?
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08:31<samsagaz_>Unicode-UTF8
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08:36<samsagaz_>tried with apt-get install msttcorefonts and still dont work,... will reboot to see if something change.
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08:40<duclicsic>samsagaz: have you installed fonts-unfonts-core?
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08:41<samsagaz>after reboot works
08:42<samsagaz>duclicsic: installed lot of fonts in 10 minutes :D
08:42<samsagaz>how can i check if are installed (btw are working now)
08:43<duclicsic>i usually just do "aptitude search package" and look for the little "i" on the left
08:43<duclicsic>dpkg -l fonts*
08:43<dpkg>No packages found matching fonts*
08:43<duclicsic>lol
08:43<plm>i'm trying to install debian8 from cd (netinstall) on a Lenovo TS140 2 SATA disks (3 Tb each one). the lenovo has a raid controller and it's configured for RAID1. when it arrives to disks partitioning it can't see my disks and let me choose between iSCSI or a empty line. anybody can help me?
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08:54<samsagaz>i A fonts-unfonts-core
08:54<samsagaz>installed
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08:54<samsagaz>btw, let me ask maybe a stupid question, i already search google and see that aptitude looks the newest way, but want to know what debian users use :)
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08:55<Brigo>plm, i think you have to find out the raid controller type and check out if there is support in linux and how.
08:55<samsagaz>i was using apt-get instead aptitude, i can use aptitude now without problems?
08:56<jmlongo>samsagaz: I use apt-get and aptitude ... depending on the mood .. ;)
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08:56<samsagaz>mmm
08:56<Brigo>samsagaz, yes you can
08:56<samsagaz>recommend me to use aptitude?
08:56<duclicsic>I tend to search for packages with aptitude, but then use apt-get for most other things
08:56<samsagaz>ok
08:56<jmlongo>I do as duclicsic ...
08:57<jmlongo>apt-get tends to be more reliable when dependency problems appear ...
08:57<samsagaz>so just use "aptitude search" and "apt-get install/remove" to manage packages, right?
08:58<jmlongo>yep ... but don't take it as a rule or law ... it's a matter of preference
08:58<samsagaz>last night removed some package and get all KDE removed
08:58<samsagaz>hehe
09:00<jmlongo>hehe ... things like that happens ... ;)
09:01<plm>Brigo, the lenovo website offers raid controllers files for suse and rh
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09:02<Brigo>plm, then it need special drivers. Can you paste the link?
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09:02<plm>brigo http://support.lenovo.com/it/it/products/servers/thinkserver-tower-servers/thinkserver-ts140
09:02<plm>i read also that ubuntu (which is a debianbased) certified the ts140
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09:05<Brigo>plm, it could be a lack of firmware problem too.
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09:08<plm>Brigo, Debian#776974: debian-installer: Did not detect Intel RST RAID Disk - https://bugs.debian.org/776974 :/
09:08<judd>Bug http://bugs.debian.org/776974 in installation-reports (open): «debian-installer: Did not detect Intel RST RAID Disk»; severity: normal; opened: 2015-02-03; last modified: 2015-02-03.
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09:10<Brigo>plm, did you read the answer?
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09:15<plm>Brigo, according to it i've to disable the hw raid controller and use the sw raid controller provided by debian, right? but it's my 1st time i use a raid software and so i'll thank you if u can provide me some documentation on this matter.
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09:16<Brigo>plm, well, i have never used a raid :) But i could said debian will give you the choice of using raid when you get to the partition time. I guess thre is a bunch of tutorial in internet (but i think debian interface is easy enought)
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09:17<plm>ok, i'll try it, thanks for now.
09:17<Brigo>plm, good luck :)
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09:39<samsagaz>exist some alternative to jdownloader that runs under debian? someone know?
09:41<Stummi>samsagaz, curl/wget?
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09:42<samsagaz>mmm, no, btw installed from source and works
09:42<samsagaz>:)
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09:54<samsagaz>exist some kind of Per-application firewall GUI? instead using iptables+custom group
09:54<samsagaz>?
09:54<jmlongo>JDownloader works on Debian with no problem for me
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09:55<samsagaz>yes works for me too!
09:55<samsagaz>installed from src
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10:02<user_>Hello, I am trying to recover a raid1 system I was able to rebuild the mirror with a livecd and mdadm but it still wont boot md125 and rescatux sees the md125 device md Centos release 6.7
10:03<user_>I choose the default order. sda sdb sdc
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10:04<user_>grub configurqtion update went wrong
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10:10<user_>helloM
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10:10<user_>hello?
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10:11<awal>Hi!
10:13<awal>Is there any app/plugin that shows mounted devices and from where I can unmount/eject them without having to open a terminal or a file manager?
10:13<awal>For use under WM's
10:14<awal>Openbox/fluxbox here
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10:17<lostatwork>might be a dockapp for that
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10:19<awal>lostatwork, any dock app that can do the job?
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10:30<samsagaz>in debian docs abt nvidia dont talk abt debian jessie :/
10:33<bremner>!nvidia
10:33<dpkg>Where possible, Nvidia graphic processing units are supported using the open source <nouveau> driver on Debian systems by default. To install the proprietary "nvidia" driver, see https://wiki.debian.org/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers or ask me about <nvidia dkms>, <nvidia legacy>; installing this directly from nvidia.com (i.e. with <nvidia-installer>) is _not_ supported in #debian, please go to #nvidia on irc.freenode.net.
10:33*bremner stares at his jessie system running nouveau
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10:34<samsagaz>oh, nice, nouveau are good (or better) as proprietary one? im trying to figure why i dont have opengl support :/
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10:38<bremner>nouveau is slower at 3D stuff, I assume
10:38<bremner>but it does support opengl
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10:40<samsagaz>bremner: what abt 2D? performance is the same? i just will use it for vmware (removed virtualbox because just support 256mb of video memory) to run stuff like photoshop, after try gimp for two weeks think thats need some features and actions that i already have in photoshop :/
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10:41<samsagaz>for simple stuff i can use gimp and inkscape but for some special things need to works with adobe package...
10:41<bremner>I find 2D performance OK. I'm not running vmware, so I don't know if that slows things down
10:41<samsagaz>i see
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10:42<EmleyMoor>Trying to access a LibreOffice database, getting SQL Status: HY000
10:42<EmleyMoor>The connection to the external data source could not be established. No SDBC driver was found for the URL 'sdbc:embedded:hsqldb'.
10:42<EmleyMoor>What has gon wrong and how do I fix it?
10:42<EmleyMoor>gone*
10:44<txt-file>I have two similar configured computers. On one "ssh foo.local" is working and on the other computer I get "ssh: Could not resolve hostname foo.local: Name or service not known". foo.local is resolved to a IPv6 address via /etc/hosts.
10:44<bremner>does the other have IPv6 networking?
10:45<txt-file>bremner, yes
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10:45<txt-file>e.g. ping6 is working with this address
10:45-!-pbn_ [pbn@2a02:578:4601:0:2::22] has joined #debian
10:49<txt-file>also "ssh -6 foo.local" is working
10:50<bremner>on both hosts?
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10:50<txt-file>on the first host it works with "ssh foo.local" and on the other only with "ssh -6 foo.local"
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10:53<bremner>hmm. I guess check /etc/nssswitch.conf is the same, and compare ssh configs
10:53<bremner>maybe running ssh -v foo.local tells you about some options it picks up
10:55<txt-file>"ssh -v " is a very good idea
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10:57<txt-file>found my ~/.ssh/config with a option to only use inet and not inet6
10:57<txt-file>thank you for pointing at this direction, bremner
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10:57<bremner>great, glad you found it. Sounds like ip6 is broken though?
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11:00<thomas5>hey
11:00<txt-file>nope … but the host is only reachable on IPv6. If .ssh/config forbids IPv6 then you are screwed.
11:00<thomas5>i have a problem
11:00<thomas5>when trying to upgrade
11:00<thomas5>Err http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ unstable/main libgc1c2 amd64 1:7.4.2-7.1 404 Not Found [IP: 130.89.148.12 80] E: Failed to fetch http://ftp.debian.org/debian/pool/main/libg/libgc/libgc1c2_7.4.2-7.1_amd64.deb 404 Not Found [IP: 130.89.148.12 80] E: Unable to fetch some archives, maybe run apt-get update or try with --fix-missing?
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11:01<txt-file>thomas5, did you try "apt-get update"?
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11:01<thomas5>yes
11:02<thomas5>source list
11:02<thomas5># deb cdrom:[Debian GNU/Linux 7.8.0 _Wheezy_ - Official amd64 DVD #Binary-1 20150110-14:43]/ Wheezy contrib main deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian experimental main deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian unstable main contrib non-free deb-src http://ftp.debian.org/debian unstable main contrib non-free deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ unstable-updates main contrib non-free deb-src http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ unstable-updates main contrib
11:03<txt-file>please use a pastebin service for pastes with more than a single line
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11:05<thomas5>sorry
11:05<thomas5>http://pastebin.com/KP2VDYHC
11:07<txt-file>sources.list looks good.
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11:08<duclicsic>really does look like you need to run another apt-get update
11:09<thomas5>http://pastebin.com/SkSQ15du
11:09<thomas5>maybe it has to do?
11:10<bremner>you should ask for help on #debian-next for systems (attempting to) run sid
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11:10<bremner>I don't think some of those things really exist, looks like search and replace
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11:11<txt-file>I am pretty sure sid does not have a security branch
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11:11<txt-file>unstable-updates also sounds wrong
11:11<duclicsic>ah
11:11<duclicsic>yeah sid does not have a security branch
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11:12<thomas5>so whats the problem?
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11:12<duclicsic>thomas5: your sources.list is all wrong
11:12-!-kpcyrd [~kpcyrd@mahmud.berlinmesh.net] has joined #debian
11:12<bremner>thomas5: one channel at a time please.
11:12<duclicsic>check with #debian-next for how it should look
11:12<thomas5>ok
11:13<kpcyrd>hey. any chance ndiff is broken in stable? it tries to 'import ndiff' but this isn't included in the package
11:13-!-wnkz [~wnkz@LCaen-656-1-174-6.w80-15.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #debian
11:13<kpcyrd>reproduce: `apt install ndiff; ndiff`
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11:16<bremner>kpcyrd: yeah, looks broken.
11:17<bremner>kpcyrd: reported as #804193
11:17<kpcyrd>bremner: thanks
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11:27<Amarande>Ouch, Thinkpad why do you betray me :(
11:28<Amarande>actually, everything was just ducky till I went to try setting up a DE :|
11:28-!-thomas5 [~oftc-webi@188.4.187.225.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
11:28<Amarande>KDE took an aeon to start, and then Chromium hung with a blank window and "page unresponsive"
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11:29<Amarande>Cinnamon doesn't seem to want to run right at all meanwhile, all I ever get is the prompt for my Wi-Fi password and the notification that cinnamon has crashed and would I like to restart it
11:31<mtn>Amarande, which version of debian? how did you install it?
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11:32<Amarande>8.2, installed netinst, didn't install DE immediately (had to leave for work and didn't have time to DL that many files)
11:32<Amarande>got up today, tried installing KDE and Cinnamon and they didn't work right
11:32<Amarande>Terminal mode works just fine though
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11:33<mtn>Amarande, what video card?
11:34<Amarande>intel integrated, sandy bridge
11:34<mtn>Amarande, how much ram?
11:34<Amarande>10GB
11:34<Amarande>(ugh, don't tell me i915 is bugged up or something like that in jessie :|)
11:34<mtn>Amarande, which tool made the install disk?
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11:34<Amarande>good question, I know it was the official netinst iso, but I'm foggy offhand exactly which tool I used to do the burn
11:34<Amarande>it installed fine on my old Vishera AMD tower, though
11:35<mtn>Amarande, it sounds like a video driver issue to me. you could research that card and debian
11:35<Amarande>unless removing KDE left a bunch of cruft that I'll never find now without exhaustive search through package lists & I might as well just reinstall since I haven't done much yet
11:35<mtn>Amarande, maybe a newer kernel from backports would help, too
11:35<awal>Amarande: which sort of kde/cinnamon packs have you installed?
11:36<Amarande>awal: so far tried just the basics + chromium + hexchat
11:36<awal>task-desktop-kde, kde-full or..?
11:37<Amarande>task-desktop-kde, later task-desktop-cinnamon
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11:37<Amarande>ubuntu live didn't have any issues, which suggests it's a debian specific issue
11:37<Amarande>(I suppose I could try stretch again)
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11:38<Amarande>oh, also kde claimed my battery was broken (which ubuntu didn't do either ...)
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11:39<Amarande>and I still need to figure out which package enables the Thinkpad special function keys
11:39<awal>is your machine too bleeding edge?
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11:39<Amarande>fn-f8 to disable the annoying touchpad-under-my-palm worked in ubuntu 15.10 live, but didn't do a thing under debian 8.2/kde
11:39<blu>hi guys. I'm debugging some network problems and I noticed that I have a lot of strange timestamp "jumps" in my log files: http://paste.debian.net/hidden/21242745/ what could be the reason for the log in the second line to be 20 minutes behind?
11:39<Amarande>awal: laptop from the sandy bridge era? I should hope not :)
11:40<awal>if some years old, debian should run just fine
11:40<awal>you may have missed something when installing
11:40<awal>or you need a specific non-free drivers
11:40<Amarande>(I was going to ask ##hardware on freenode also, but it seems everywhere I go on freenode is locked to only registered nicks being able to talk and freenode has managed to misplace their servers. LOL)
11:41<Amarande>er, misplace their services. :p
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11:41<awal>the installer haven't prompted you about non-free drivers?
11:42<Amarande>awal: only for the Wi-Fi (I used wired networking for the installation, though)
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11:42<Amarande>thinkpads are pretty good like that
11:42<awal>Amarande: have you used debian yet before ?
11:43<Amarande>awal: yup, used it just fine on a vishera FX-6300 machine until I decided to put that awful space heater to rest and got a laptop
11:43<Amarande>hmm. does ssd crypto cause a performance hit that large?
11:44<markybob>Amarande, no. fine here.
11:45<grove>Amarande: I have just installed Jessie on a thinkpad t450s. I needed a kernel from backports for it to recognise the docking station, and firmware-iwlwifi from backports to work with that kernel, but else it just works (I haven't looked at confguring battery charging yet, though)
11:46<Amarande>yeah hardware seems to 'just work'
11:46<Amarande>I probably bugged up something in package selection, thinking maybe I should just reinstall it seeing that I haven't really set up anything much yet
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11:47<Amarande>and perhaps ditch kde, since it's starting to irritate me lately
11:47<Amarande>though that's starting to irritate me itself
11:47<Amarande>because unless I get Cinnamon working, I'm pretty much being forcibly prodded towards the GNOME3 Way of Thinking :(
11:48<Amarande>since the "classical" style desktops are becoming issuous (there's MATE, but I always wonder how long that one is really reasonably viable for, sooner or later everyone will have moved on from GTK+2)
11:48<markybob>Amarande, xfce works fine here :/
11:48-!-chasmo77 [~chas77@158.183-62-69.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has quit [Quit: It's just that easy]
11:49<Amarande>this leaves either the super lightweights, GNOME3, or Ubuntu/Unity (which seems more or less GNOME3 with some Ubuntu polish)
11:49<awal>Amarande: try reinstalling with DE, doing a full standard debian install
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11:49<Amarande>markybob: would moving from kde to xfce result in a double-take shock about how limited it is?
11:49<awal>xfce isn't limited
11:50<Amarande>last time I installed xfce was for my fiancee on a really ancient laptop with only half a gig of RAM :)
11:50<markybob>Amarande, i haven't used kde in about five years...but i don't think so. xfce has everything i need
11:50<awal>you can install later gnome or kde packs if needed, being careful with recommends, suggested...
11:51<Amarande>"standard" debian install means GNOME3, doesn't it.
11:51<markybob>yes
11:51<awal>"standard" I mean, selecting a DE in tasksel step
11:51<Amarande>(why does everyone love GNOME3, anyway? especially since choice was always one of the big things about linux and the GNOME3 devs actually *explicitly* spat on choice in their blogs)
11:51<awal>not gnome specially
11:52<markybob>Amarande, not everyone does. i don't. a lot of regulars here don't.
11:52<Amarande>yet it seems like the default DE on almost every distro (well, except ubuntu and some ubuntu derivs) always seems to be gnome3
11:52<Amarande>wonder what leads to that decision :)
11:53<Amarande>mind you, when gnome3 was new there were also other issues (mainly forced use of a compositing WM + the fact that linux was still a lot wetter around the ears with non-proprietary graphics drivers)
11:53<Amarande>now unless you're one of those poor sods on nVidia graphics drivers aren't a worry anymore :)
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11:54<Amarande>also, switching away from kde will mean no more being bugged to use kwallet :)
11:55<Amarande>(do you really need kwallet if you use full disk crypto? seems like suspenders and a belt to me)
11:55<awal>you can disable kwallet
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11:55<awal>isn't mandatory under a kde system
11:55-!-blu [~blu@2a02:8109:a33f:eb64:ad67:ae2e:2e5f:b869] has joined #debian
11:56<awal>just check seetings...
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11:56<Amarande>anyway, time to reinstall I suppose. if that doesn't work, I guess I'm going to be looking at the U word :(
11:57<Amarande>(not that I'm really *that* anti-Ubuntu, but Debian has always been my trusty go-to distro, and it would be sad to have it lose that status)
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11:58<awal>if you can't run debian in your machine, don't blame debian, blame your self ... debian can run almost in any hardware, sometimes with manual configs needed
11:58<awal>:D
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12:01<awal>ubuntu is debian based, under debian you can achieve what ubuntu devs do, without leaving debian
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12:05<gabi>Hello
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12:05<jelly>awal: I strongly disagree with "debian can run almost in any hardware". Various common hardware require non-free software components that is not part of Debian, and not present in the standard installer image. Also, very fresh hardware often only gets decent level of stability after 6-12 months on the market.
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12:06<jelly>I'd say "debian runs on almost any Thinkpad T and X series older than 12 months with an Intel GPU"
12:07<markybob>jelly, until you can figure out cron you probably shouldn't make such statements :p
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12:08<jelly>markybob: yeah no, I leave non-sequiturs in -offtopic <g>
12:08<SynrGy>"almost any" is sufficiently carefully qualified to keep that statement true even if the next year is full of unsupported new Thinkpad models
12:08<jelly>SynrGy: it's just bullshit. less than half of laptops will full work out of the box.
12:08<awal>SynrGy: +1
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12:09<jelly>and it will be that way as long as debian tries to keep FSF happy by not including firmware
12:09<SynrGy>well, there is that. but i assume anyone with a laptop is using unofficial non-free install images
12:10<SynrGy>to do otherwise is just so much pain
12:10<jelly>users visiting www.debian.org are completely unaware of their existence
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12:10<jelly>the fact they're "unofficial" means debian does not work as it is
12:10<jelly>I'd rather not mince words
12:11<SynrGy>www.d.o does mention it. i agree it's probably not high enough profile though
12:11<jelly>or pretend you can buy a box that run linux nicely without a throrough investigation
12:12<markybob>no one's saying you don't have to read
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12:12<jelly>SynrGy: yeah, behind 3-4 links, at the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying beware of the leopard
12:13*mhall119 approves of the HHGTTG reference
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12:13<jelly>apologies for the copy/paste, I haven't reread recently
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12:14<SynrGy>jelly: well, if the FAQ is really considered that inaccessible ...
12:14<SynrGy>but it should be one click away, not two
12:15<SynrGy>nobody ever reads anything other than the front page, and then probably only the first 20 words on it ;)
12:15<jelly>sure, it's only two if you know exactly which ones, and you go read them after you've wasted an hour downloading, installing and trying to figure out why there's no net
12:15<SynrGy>yep. agreed.
12:15<jelly>which is honestly a horrible UX fail
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12:16<jelly>fortunately a modicum of users find their way here and we !firmware images them
12:17<SynrGy>:)
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12:21<blast007>doesn't the installer mention when firmware might be needed for your network devices?
12:22<lostatwork>yes it will ask if you want to load firmware
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12:23<jelly>blast007: it does.
12:23<hdb2>hello all - I want to install mysql on my laptop, but I want to not have it start at boot (manually control start/stop). in the past I would run update-rc.d and remove the service, does that still apply to Jessie or is there another/better way?
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12:42<SynrGy>blast007: which isn't quite as useful as it sounds because a) most users fail to provide additional media with firmware at this point and b) most continue without a network, screwing up: apt sources.list, wireless, network configuration in general ... each of which the support community gets to deal with later (or the user on their own) for hours of fun
12:42<SynrGy>times thousands of users encountering the issue
12:43<SynrGy>a tiny fraction of those users learn that they got the "wrong image", are direct to the "right" one, and walk away happy customers :p
12:43<SynrGy>directed*
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13:19<jelly>if I had a nickle for every user in #debian getting help with !firmware images, I'd have... too much foreign currency our banks don't want to deal with
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13:29<Kjetil>*ponders why it was a good idea to replace ifconfig with a similar tools with a completly different printformat*
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13:31<teward>Kjetil: *yes, it was* (ip is so many magnitudes more useful, in my opinion, than ifconfig (though I use ifconfig to get mac addresses still xD) )
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13:33<Kjetil>teward: yeah. but leave ip where it is.. as the ip command
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13:39<Kjetil>I'm probably just the grumpy guy that prefers things the way they have been for 15+years. But I still think the top one is easier to read ( http://paste.debian.net/340670/ )
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14:01<van_canto>Hello, I am using Jessie with LXDE desktop on an Acer Aspire Netbook with a Radeon GPU; I cannot suspend/hibernate properly from keyboard/GUI without quirks, but I can from the command-line with "pm-suspend --quirk-vbemode-restore". I've tried making the quirk permanent by adding a .quirkdb file to "/usr/lib/pm-utils/video-quirks/" containing "addquirk --quirk-vbemode-restore", but there was no effect, even aft
14:01<van_canto>er reboot. If anyone knows exactly which file(s) I need to modify and what to change to achieve this, I would appreciate your help!
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15:50<brisan>hi, I need to get a registration for downloading software.
15:51<blast007>brisan: what software?
15:52<brisan>I just installed mintppc on my Mini PPC, and need to get a program to read powerpoint files
15:53<blast007>!mintppc
15:53<dpkg>MintPPC (formerly Linux MintPPC) is a Linux distribution for <PowerPC> systems based on <Linux Mint> LXDE and Debian. It is not supported in #debian or #debianppc. http://mintppc.org/ #mintppc on irc.freenode.net.
15:53<blast007>try that IRC channel on freenode listed at the end instead
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15:55<brisan>I'm a complete newbie to this O/S, yhe message I ger from mintppc.com is: launch Menu->Welcome Screen and click on Chat Room. Not sure how to do this. Hope someone can help.
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16:09<stan_>hola
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16:10<stan_>hola como estan
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16:23<oct>yikes
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17:04<bradley>how do i blacklist noveau ?
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17:10<awal>,v dvswitch
17:10<judd>Package: dvswitch on amd64 -- squeeze: 0.8.3.4-1; wheezy: 0.8.3.6-1+b2; experimental: 0.9.1-1
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17:12<jhutchins>!blacklist
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17:12<dpkg>To blacklist a Linux kernel module, create/edit /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist.local.conf and add a line similar to this (without quotes): "blacklist module_name". If this doesn't work, do 'echo "install modulename /bin/true" >> /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist.local.conf'. IMPORTANT: ask about <blacklist-initramfs>. To blacklist a module at installation time, ask me about <installer blacklist>. http://wiki.debian.org/KernelModuleBlacklisting
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19:52<kingbeast>hello everyone
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20:04<Amarande>good god. no wonder gnome3 and other gtk+ based DEs are so popular and KDE seems like it's losing ground
20:05<Amarande>it's not even the kde devs, it's friggin Qt
20:05-!-minduca [~minduca@177.205.22.53.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #debian
20:05<Amarande>you apparently simply cannot use the Fn key combinations in Qt on a laptop, and this has been an acknowledged bug as far back as the Great Recession
20:06<Amarande>(and since you can't use them in Qt, kde can huff and puff all day long about it, but since kde runs on qt ...)
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20:15<gustavo>hey
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20:17<Amarande>ah, there we go, synclient
20:17<Amarande>really wish I knew why the heck qt won't recognise those keys though, GTK+ based DEs have no issue
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20:41<r4fkramer_>Hi all
20:42<r4fkramer_>I had to re-configure my keyboard to brazilian-portuguese (abnt2) and used the following command: " setxkbmap -model pc105 -layout br -variant abnt2 "
20:43<r4fkramer_>the keyboard is running fine, with all rules for abnt2. I would like to know if there is any need to save this line in any configuration file in Debian Jessie 8.2
20:45<markybob>r4fkramer_, yes. add it to $HOME/.profile
20:45<r4fkramer_>Hi markybob
20:45<r4fkramer_>do I use like this: nano $HOME/.profile to edit it ?
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20:47<markybob>r4fkramer_, yes
20:47<r4fkramer_>there is a script saved in this file, makybob. Do I include this line before or after this script ?
20:47<r4fkramer_>markybob
20:47<markybob>r4fkramer_, doesn't matter
20:48<r4fkramer_>ok, so, after I've done it, can reboot with no matter, the configuration for abnt2 will remain ?
20:48<markybob>r4fkramer_, yes
20:49<r4fkramer_>ok, markybob, thanks for Great Support !
20:51<r4fkramer_>I will reboot now, see you later !
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20:56<r4fkramer_>markybob, the configuration wasn't save, keyboard seems not to be configured for abnt2 again
20:56<r4fkramer_>save the instruction in %HOME/.profile, as you suggested
20:57<r4fkramer_>see this, doesn't matter if you don't understand portuguese, just pay attention on accents: novo texto, ap'os ter salvo a configuraç~ao 'e o que `a altura de todos ?
20:58<r4fkramer_>ap'os - wrong ; 'e - wrong; `a - also wrong
20:59<markybob>yeah, i don't understand Portuguese.
20:59<r4fkramer_>configuraç~ao (it means 'configuration' in english) - wrong too
20:59<markybob>!br
20:59<dpkg>Este canal é apenas em inglês. Por favor, use #debian-br (/j #debian-br) para ajuda em portugues.
20:59<markybob>maybe that'll know?
21:00<r4fkramer_>as I explained you, you didn't need to know portuguese
21:00<markybob>r4fkramer_, but they're more likely to know how to change keyboard layouts to their language, right?
21:01<r4fkramer_>yes, I entered the channel here
21:01<r4fkramer_>ok, thanks for attention, markybob
21:02<samsagaz>guys, im running jessie, and need a feature of plasma5, is easy to upgrade? think that will be an good choice or will get intro troubles?
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21:04<markybob>samsagaz, no
21:06<samsagaz>(i just want to change the looks of bottom panel), dont want to get the icons and defautl taks manager
21:06<paxmark9>samsagaz, Not easy. I am using Qt5.5 for some kf5 in testing and sid in lxqt
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21:07<samsagaz>want something that looks like mac, just icons and stack the opened apps over the icons
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21:07<samsagaz>but if is not easy then can live without that option :D
21:07<samsagaz>ppl told me that Alternatives is the name of the widget but just come with plasma 5
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21:22<awal>samsagaz, you will have to mix packs from sid and testing and that may broke your system
21:22<samsagaz>ok, i found an alternative... Cairo Dock
21:23<awal>cairo dock or docky
21:23<samsagaz>looks nice!
21:23<bremner>I think generally mixing sid and testing is no worse than running sid
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21:24<awal>samsagaz, I dont know right now, but before jessie release cairo dock had a big bug, not loaded if gnome/gdm3 not installed
21:24<awal>docky is a nice dock
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21:24<samsagaz>its working now
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21:24<samsagaz>well, will test both
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21:25<awal>so the bug is solved
21:25<awal>docky is more complex. docky is just an app like a panel
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21:26<awal>doesn't provide systray, i think...
21:26<awal>cairo dock is more complex ^
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21:26<samsagaz>docky works too
21:26<samsagaz>both looks nice...
21:26<awal>it has a system tray?
21:27<awal>was going to install it but wasn't sure about sys tray
21:27<samsagaz>mm what means sys tray? my english is not good
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21:28<samsagaz>show me the icons and a small blue light at bottom if the app are running
21:28<samsagaz>but dont have an app launcher
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21:29<awal>you will have to configure it for that
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21:29<samsagaz>at least in default conf
21:29<samsagaz>ok
21:29<awal>system tray is where you have volume, ethernet/wifi, battery ...icons
21:29<Amarande>bremner: heh aren't there actually folks who say that you should never run testing, pretty much either stick to stable or use full blown sid? :)
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21:30<samsagaz>oh i see
21:30<samsagaz>at default come with an trash bin
21:30-!-Walex [~Walex@90.205.233.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:30<samsagaz>i added a clock
21:30<twb>Is it possible to tell man(1) to jump to a specific .SH (heading) or .SS (section)?
21:30<twb>"Run man bash, then scroll down to Pathname Expansion" is sucky.
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21:31<awal>Amarande: if you want leave stable, run unstable, it's more bleeding edge and bugs are solved quickly compared to testing, and it isn't to unstable as people can think :)
21:32<somiaj>Amarande: testing is more likely than sid to have all the packages actually installable at any given time, and is less likely than sid to be broken (though it does take long for fixes to make it into testing, including security). So what you run is dependent the use case.
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21:32<Amarande>awal: unless it's the fn key bug in kde on thinkpads, in which case it will probably never get fixed :|
21:32<somiaj>Standard advise here is run stable unless you know what you are doing, and then in that case you should know enough to decide if testing or sid is better for your usecase.
21:32<Amarande>that's apparently been a thing since 2009
21:33-!-janniswiese [~janniswie@p5B36FD4A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: janniswiese]
21:33<Amarande>like ... six years for a bug ... sheesh, I only expect that from the AMD closed source graphics drivers :)
21:33<twb>Amarande: what have YOU done about it?
21:33<twb>!siyh
21:33<dpkg>methinks siyh is Sooner If You Help. How? http://qa.debian.org/ , http://wiki.debian.org/BSP
21:33<Amarande>twb: checked up on it, apparently it's actually a thing with Qt rather than KDE
21:34<Amarande>for some reason Qt won't support the Fn keys, I'm not really quite sure why
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21:34<awal>Amarande: I hear every where that linux works fine with thinkpad machines but me I had bad experiences; my debian always had problems with thinkpad laptops, I had no problems with Dell ones...
21:34<Amarande>(however, it's a known thing, try to bind Fn+something as a shortcut in KDE and it'll tell you Qt doesn't support that key)
21:35<Amarande>awal: it's a qt specific thing, far as I've seen Gtk+ based DEs work fine with it
21:35<Amarande>not sure why Qt has a problem doing so
21:35<twb>If you mean the key actually labelled "Fn" on the keyboard, X can't see it at all.
21:35<twb>If you mean a key labelled (say) F3, then I don't know what's up with Qt.
21:35<awal>Amarande, probably , yeah. try playing with default grub file
21:36<samsagaz>cairo is better
21:36<samsagaz>at least more options to change
21:36<samsagaz>and looks nice
21:36<Amarande>of course if I could find a Gtk+ DE that I actually liked, I might switch from KDE ... I'm not sure if Cinnamon's mature enough yet though, and I don't care for the GNOME3/Unity style much
21:36<Amarande>I did find out how to disable the touchpad from the command line though :)
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21:36<Amarande>twb: the key marked Fn, and X actually can see it (try it with Xev)
21:37<twb>I have never ever ever ever ever seen that happen
21:37<twb>Thinkpads must be weird.
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21:37<Amarande>yeah, the Fn key isn't hardware based on thinkpads apparently
21:37<twb>Fair enough then
21:37<Amarande>but yeah, Qt doesn't like it for some reason
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21:38<twb>Fun story: X11 only supports 256 keys
21:38<twb>That's why you cannot send e.g. KEY_SPORTS from linux to X
21:38<Amarande>Gtk+ is fine (when I was in ubuntu 15.10 live getting my data off the old debian install after putting the ssd in the laptop, Fn-F8 worked perfectly)
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21:40<Amarande>I'm still not sure why touchpads are so popular, the traditional thinkpad mousenub (also known by some less family friendly names) is much more convenient
21:40<Amarande>touchpads have this tendency to cause you to move the mouse pointer around like a marionette caught in a motor while you try to type :)
21:43<awal>Amarande: Fn key wont work at all or only some features?
21:43<twb>Meh, just stop using a pointing device altogether.
21:43<twb>Amarande: re "while typing", try syndaemon(1).
21:43<twb>"monitors keyboard activity and disables the touchpad when the keyboard is being used."
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21:44<awal>I dont understand how qt can be involved with fn key...
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21:45<twb>awal: it sounds like on Thinkpads the Fn key presents as a regular key, so the X layer needs to map it to a keysym and/or modifier (e.g. mod4) and the apps need to be able care about that keysym/keymod
21:46<awal>twb: ok, ok. got you
21:46<twb>Because they're rarely used, lots of apps have trouble handling mod3/4/5 reliably, especially if they are mapped to different keysyms than normal
21:46<awal>thanks
21:47<twb>(e.g. is mod1 used for Alt_L, Meta_L, or both?)
21:47<awal>I have an old thinkpad (around 2008) and debian work on it just fine.
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21:49<twb>awal: Amarande pointed out this issue is specific to Qt; GTK and (presumably) Xaw are unaffected. This issue might also be new since the Lenovo buyout; I don't know.
21:49<samsagaz>cant beliave it, cairo dock rules! is incredible!!!!! :D
21:49<samsagaz>thanks guys
21:50<awal>hm, twb: probably , yeah. I run xfce in that thinkpad, gtk so.
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21:51<Amarande>awal: works fine in unity (ubuntu 15.10) and reported to work fine in other gtk+ based DEs on various distros
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21:51<Amarande>does not work in kde, and attempting to bind any combination involving it in kde's keybinds results in an error that Qt does not support this key
21:51<Amarande>the actual low level modifiers work fine in kde (e.g., if you use synclient in a terminal)
21:52<twb>awal: I am curious; can you please go to Applications > Settings > something and try to bind to Fn + something, and then tell me what is in your ~/.config/xfce4/xfconf/xfce-perchannel-xml/xfce4-keyboard-shortcuts.xml ?
21:52<twb>e.g. <property name="<Alt>F4" type="string" value="close_window_key"/> I want to know what it says instead of Alt
21:52<twb>(Because, as I mentioned earlier, there's no guarantee that Alt is actually used for mod1, which is probably what it ACTUALLY binds)
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21:53<awal>even if it works, Fn key it will not do with gnu linux all what is supposed to do in windows. so, fn key isn't really a big problem for me
21:54<twb>awal: so "it works" is more like "I don't use it"? ;-)
21:54<somiaj>I just program my Fn+keys to do what I want, though some are handeled by the bios.
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21:55<awal>twb: I'm on openbox, long time I dont use DE. I mean Fn key only works for inc/decrease brightness, on/off wifi under linux, all other features no...
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21:56<Amarande>awal: actually, media type keys on keyboards have come a long way, at least on main-line DEs
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21:56<Amarande>before I switched from desktop to laptop, I was noticing KDE supported things like the volume and mute keys on my cheap Gigaware keyboard just fine
21:56<awal>basically I dont use it. I create my one shortcuts for xbacklight, pulse/alsa...
21:57<Amarande>it's not that the target features are not supported (again, if you do, e.g., synclient Touchpadoff=1, the touchpad duly disables without issue)
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21:57<ethicalglass3>ello? ey b0ss?
21:57<Amarande>it's not that the key is not recognised (Xev shows that it is)
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21:57<Amarande>it's that Qt specifically will not allow Fn key combinations to be bound in the shortcut manager
21:57<Amarande>and apparently has not been able to do so for 6+ years now, which is quite bizarre
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21:59<bremner>umm. Fn keys have always been a bit odd on thinkpads, afair
22:00<bremner>some of them intercepted by the embedded controller, iirc
22:01<twb>Normally they all are
22:01<twb>Amarande indicates Thinkpad lets some through to the OS
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22:03<bremner>ok
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22:05<bremner>sure enough, I have bound XF86MonBrightness{Up,Down} in .i3/config
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22:05<Amarande>yeah, it seems to be a partial matter
22:05<Amarande>just tried the brightness keys, those work
22:06<Amarande>the touchpad toggle definitively seems to vary by DE, though
22:07<bremner>I don't have a touchpad toggle. The audio keys all generate X keys
22:08-!-mode/#debian [+l 729] by debhelper
22:09<Amarande>bremner: Fn+F8 for touchpad toggle?
22:09<twb>bremner: to what (re brightness)?
22:09<twb>Ah never mind, I misread you
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22:10<twb>It's normal for Fn+<key> to generate an XF86 key.
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22:10<twb>It's not normal for Fn to be visible to linux/Xorg *on its own*.
22:10<bremner>Amarande: oh, sure enough. I get XF86TouchPadToggle for that.
22:11<somiaj>Most the common keys have ben bound, sometimes you have to do extra work to track down the keycode and give it it's own name. Once you have that a wm/de should allow you to bind that key to whatever action/script
22:11<somiaj>using xinput you can make a toggle script that turns on/off the touchpad.
22:11<twb>Oh, it's also worth noting that e.g. the XF86VolumeUp key might be intercepted by the WM *before it reaches xev*
22:11<twb>So ideally you should do testing while only xev is running, no other X processes
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22:20<Amarande>yeah no one is really sure why XF86TouchPadToggle is getting refused by Qt
22:21<twb>Amarande: OK I misunderstood your original problem report
22:21<twb>Amarande: it sounded like you were talking about the Fn key.
22:22<twb>You seem to be specifically talking about the XF86TouchPadToggle key.
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22:23<samsagaz>guys exist some kind of gui to manage local DNS, apache vhosts, DB creations, and stuff like we use as local development,... i used webmin for long time under freebsd, because speed up al the process to create all these stuff, just want to know if exist another tool for taht stuff
22:25<markybob>samsagaz, thankfully no
22:25<samsagaz>lol
22:25<samsagaz>ok
22:25<Amarande>twb: yeah, it's a little foggy if other keys are also affected
22:26<twb>The reason appears to be straightforward
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22:26<Amarande>ok, the sleep key Fn+F4 works
22:27<twb>You're using the uevent device to transmit key press information from Linux to Xorg.
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22:27<twb>This method cannot express key codes greater than 256, because the X11 protocol uses a single byte for key codes.
22:27<Amarande>up and down backlight keys work ... numlock (which is fn+scroll lock) works
22:27<twb>The code for KEY_TOUCHPAD_TOGGLE is 530
22:27<Amarande>ah, I'm guessing Qt uses this protocol :|
22:27<Amarande>dammit, KDE. how can you be so modern and yet have such an antique limitation :(
22:28<twb>Here is a reference table I wrote: http://sprunge.us/aZAf
22:28<twb>Amarande: it should not matter if it's Qt, if my theory is correct.
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22:28<Amarande>twb: and yet the toggle works fine in other DEs, most or all of which have in common the fact that they're based around Gtk+ instead of Qt
22:28<twb>From that lookup table, I can see that Xorg considers F22 to be TouchPadToggle
22:28<Amarande>and when you try to bind the key in KDE, the error is not that KDE does not support it, it is that Qt does not
22:29<twb>So maybe that is what is / was being sent by the kernel
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22:29<twb>Open a tty, not in X. Run sendkeys. Press the key chord, and see if it says F22 or TOUCHPADTOGGLE
22:29<twb>Also, run acpi_listen (anywhere) and try the key
22:29<twb>Amarande: "does not support it", or that Qt does not receive the key at all?
22:30<twb>Because in the latter case, Qt *can't* fix it, because Qt is not at fault.
22:30<Amarande>"The key you just pressed is not supported by Qt."
22:30<twb>Ah, OK.
22:30<twb>Then I diagnosed it wrong again :-)
22:31<twb>But you could still do this via ACPI if it generates and ACPI event
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22:33<Amarande>hmm, let's see
22:33<Amarande>acpi_listen from a terminal gives me:
22:33<twb>>drumroll<
22:34<Amarande>Fn+F1, Fn+F11 are shown as just such key combinations; Fn+F9 is shown as F24
22:34<Amarande>(the above three have no special function printed on them, just as tests)
22:35<Amarande>Fn+F7 comes up as video/switchmode VMOD, Fn+F2 as button/screenlock SCRNLCK, Fn+F3 as button/battery BAT, Fn+F4 as button/sleep SBTN (and puts me to sleep even though I've got acpi_listen going ...)
22:36<Amarande>Fn+F8, on the other hand? ^@
22:36<twb>^@ is the NULL (zeroth) character in ASCII/UTF-8
22:36<Amarande>Fn+F5 comes up as WLAN and toggles the wifi accordingly
22:37<twb>Amarande: what about the touchpad one, though, that you actually care about?
22:37<Amarande>Fn+F6 (has a picture of a camera and headphones on it) comes up ^@, like Fn+F8
22:37<Amarande>the touchpad one is Fn+F8 which comes up ^@
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22:38<Amarande>it will be noted that in ubuntu 15.10, Fn+F8 works duly
22:38<Amarande>I haven't tried another DE on Debian as yet personally to see, but all reports I've googled indicate that DEs other than KDE have no issue
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22:40<twb>samsagaz: it sounds like you want a "WHCP". They are all horrible, I can't recommend any.
22:41<twb>samsagaz: try /msg dpkg whcp
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22:48<samsagaz>ok, thanks
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22:49<samsagaz>well, webmin+virtualmin are not bad, will use it again
22:50<samsagaz>is just for localhost to set some vitualhosts+DB to work with
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23:51<swe911>reallydarkcloud_ drewdavis BaD_CrC thesix llimeht dvs swizgard jedix krofek__ mgv lzz dardevelin sbadia adema grove guide_ Aldo captnfab Bryanstein quasisane HAVE YOU EVER PICKED YOUR CLOCK AND SMELLED IT?
23:51<swe911>gattuso medicalwei nyuszika7h debhelper XaF jacky Zic rsalveti Muzer amiconn Xires lindi- Sp0nken rootbeer Myon czchen PadawanLearner laurendc jeroentbt arlen HAVE YOU EVER PICKED YOUR CLOCK AND SMELLED IT?
23:51<swe911>alvarezp nyuszika7h mhall119 ifvoid Guest8385 cybersphinx_ olspookishmagus aviau twisted` teward grindhold ZimmerMint jhr mwalling Xires ml| egggs panda Kamilion tgies HAVE YOU EVER PICKED YOUR CLOCK AND SMELLED IT?
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23:53<oldlaptop>there's a serious storm in #oftc
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23:53<Hydroxide>yeah, paying attention
23:53<Hydroxide>as of a few moments ago
23:56<twb>samsagaz: webmin definitely *is* bad.
---Logclosed Thu Dec 03 00:00:01 2015