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#debian IRC Logs for 2016-02-23

---Logopened Tue Feb 23 00:00:06 2016
---Daychanged Tue Feb 23 2016
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00:08<flappy>sney: Yeah, that's what I've been trying to do, even tried 'apt-get install mono-complete=3.2.8+dfsg-10'
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01:09<twb>Which channel should I annoy with questions about linux scripts/config --disable modules ?
01:10<twb>I've been building kernel packages based on debian's .config, and I want to take that and turn it from =m's into =y's.
01:10<twb>When I use menuconfig to set modules to no, it all Just Works.
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01:11<twb>When I use "scripts/config --disable modules", then "make silentoldconfig" gets confused and prompts me about EVERYTHING
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01:13<jm_>probably lkml :)
01:13<twb>I'm a bit scared of them
01:13<twb>because it's probably me derping
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01:16<twb>OK weird, this isn't happening with upstream's defconfig
01:16<jm_>yeah probably because it has far less selected
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01:18<twb>http://sprunge.us/PicZ
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01:20<twb>http://sprunge.us/iQAY
01:20<twb>WTH is "Restart config..." for
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01:22<twb>Interestingly, that string is coming from debian/patches/
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01:23<jm_>ahh so it's one of the patches
01:23<twb>nah that's just context, it's coming from scripts/kconfig/conf.c
01:24<twb>https://codesearch.debian.net/show?file=linux_3.16.7-ckt20-1%2Bdeb8u2%2Fscripts%2Fkconfig%2Fconf.c&line=433
01:26<twb>I don't understand that code yet
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01:28<twb>You're right that it starts if I turn on more things -- "make allmodconfig && scripts/config --disable modules && make silentoldconfig" triggers "Restart config"
01:29<jm_>yeah it looks like it's checking it in a loop and then restarts at one point, the comment says Update until a loop caused no more changes
01:29<twb>checking what?
01:29<jm_>config ;)
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01:30<twb>helpful!
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01:30<jm_>it's too complex to grasp it at a glance
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01:31<twb>Maybe I will have to annoy upstream LKML
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02:17<trump>hey
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02:29<twb>Argh I can't do "yes n | make oldconfig" either
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02:56<twb>jm_: http://sprunge.us/QMFP is the report I was gonna send, but I think I have "fixed" it now, so I'm not gonna bother
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02:57<kanasu>.
02:58<trump>compiling obs is a sort of a pain
02:58<twb>trump: OBS?
02:58<trump>yea
02:58<twb>What is OBS?
02:59<trump>Open Broadcaster Studio ( I think)
02:59<trump>https://obsproject.com
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03:00<jm_>twb: ahh I was going to suggest sed but thought it's too much of a hack
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03:01<twb>it's so bad
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03:05<twb>trump: so is OBS something you use when you are a TV studio?
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03:07<twb>Or is it more like just icecast: "here are some media files, steam them to the internet"
03:07<trump>can use it to stream to something like twitch/hitbox/etc
03:08-!-mode/#debian [+l 736] by debhelper
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03:08<twb>Ah so it doesn't handle live video editing, like choosing which camera to switch to
03:08<trump>if your asking how it works, then i have no clue lol its automagic to me
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03:09<trump>im not sure what you mean by live video editing, but i know you can switch pre-configured sources, like multi cams, monitors and stuff
03:09<twb>Or like that 30-second delay where the host drops a hammer on his foot and swears and you have to blank it out
03:10<twb>trump: editing like "cut to camera three so we can have a closeup on the minister's face when he loses his temper"
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03:11<trump>its somewhat capable of that, but its pretty simple, for like streaming your gameplay
03:11<twb>oh OK
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03:12<trump>but im not really aware of its capablities. im by no means a savy person when it comes to streaming or cams lol. i can barely work my webcam at times
03:12<twb>so like it might be able to do picture-in-picture and show the gameplay and your horrible head, but it can't do a splitscreen of the studio and the reporter on the scene, with a twitter stock ticker along the bottom
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03:21<twb>Look how great I am: http://sprunge.us/XBgg No more modules, mua ha ha
03:22<fmoreau>Hello. I'd like to understand why persistent interface naming is disabled for virtio net devices on debian. Could anybody give me some hints or a pointer ? Thanks.
03:22<twb>And because I was already (more or less) reducing it to the drivers I needed, the kernel+ramdisk size ends up being smaller
03:22<twb>fmoreau: oh, I remember that. It was some horrible conflict between different use cases
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03:25<fmoreau>twb, yes I can imagine that some people wanted it and others don't. But I'd like to find out the rational on the final decision and google doesn't help so far.
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03:25<twb>RUH ROH, when I install my module-less kernel, it does not build a ramdisk. I still need the ramdisk to contain live-boot and friends
03:25<twb>fmoreau: did it happen in debian, or in systemd?
03:25<twb>fmoreau: I had a feeling it was in systemd
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03:27<twb>I think the argument was something like "if you clone a prototypical VM 100 times, then start all 100 at once, they should all appear to be different"
03:28<fmoreau>twb, what exactly did happen in debian or in systemd ?
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03:28<fmoreau>twb, do you remember if the discussion happened in a mailing list ?
03:28<twb>fmoreau: in systemd.git:v226:NEWS mentions that persistent virtio config is persistent
03:29<twb>(Jessie ships v215 and does not use systemd-networkd by default.)
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03:29<twb>v225-153-g54683f0 looks like the commit that NEWS entry refers to
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03:30<twb>fmoreau: I think I remember it in the context of hanging around #systemd and watching the regulars rationalize their behaviour while some user had a tantrum
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03:31<fmoreau>twb, maybe you're confusing "persistent" naming with "predictable" one
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03:31<twb>Er, possibly
03:31<twb>before systemd, in debian 7 there was udev persistent-net-generator.rules
03:31<twb>That basically wrote down "eth0" for a MAC address.
03:32<twb>Around about debian 8's release, systemd threw that away and invented its own network daemon, systemd-networkd. But it's off by default in debian 8 because of transition issues.
03:32<twb>I vaguely remember the old udev rules say something like "if the MAC vendor is a known VM, don't be persistent"
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03:34<fmoreau>twb, yes exactly and I'd like to understand of rational of "if the MAC vendor is a known VM, don't be persistent"
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03:35<twb>Hm, maybe if I grep history for such a MAC prefix...
03:35<fmoreau>twb, that would be great, thanks.
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03:36<twb>Got it
03:36<twb>Refs: 064-2336-gd4de0a0
03:37<twb>git log -w -M -C --all --stat -- extras/rule_generator/75-persistent-net-generator.rules ==> http://sprunge.us/aJEI
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03:38<fmoreau>hmm that's for VMWare and my question was about KVM. But I got the idea on how to search for info.
03:38<fmoreau>Thanks twb
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03:40<twb>It refers to an earlier commit about KVM, but the KVM commit doesn't say anything about WHY
03:40<twb>That's these two commits: 064-2334-gaf29bf0 and 064-2335-gc031801
03:42<fmoreau>indeed.
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03:42<fmoreau>I'm wondering what "The virtual interfaces created by KVM are stable" from commit af29baf0 means though
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03:45<twb>Dunno. Note that kvm supports multiple kinds of NICs (NE2k, virtio, &c) and we might be confusing them
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03:52<twb>Hooray, my module-less kernel successfully netboots and the stupid GUI comes up and everything
03:53<twb>And /proc/modules doesn't even exist
03:53<fmoreau>twb, thanks for your help.
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04:10<trump>cya all
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04:43<blue_sky>that Design Patterns in Ruby is effing $36 for the effing ebook! Not buying that.
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05:15<LostSoul>Is there way to set nss_map_attribute homeDirectory to custom value?
05:15<LostSoul>in ldap config?
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06:06<fae>By default, clamscan does not scan inside .deb files. Is there a mean to make it open it and scan inside?
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06:23<narcan>hi, the dot to finish a mail with the mail command (CLI) doesn't work anymore? or its a bug?
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06:36<themill>narcan: that might depend on which mail you're using
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06:40<grummund>Hi, apt-get dist-upgrade has hung, any ideas pls? - http://paste.debian.net/402754/
06:41<grummund>should i just ctrl-c it and try again?
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06:42<grummund>this is from wheezy -> jessie
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06:43<jm_>try using pstree or ps faux to see what exactly is hanging
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06:46<grummund>possibly this - mount -o ro -t ext3 /dev/sda2 /var/lib/os-prober/mount
06:47<themill>uninstalling some old kernels would be a good plan too when you've got a chance
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06:52<grummund>agreed :)
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07:21<grummund>oh dear, the box is now stuck in an eternal loop, right after bios start it resets.
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07:32<narcan>themill: how much email commands do you know?
07:32<narcan>s/email/mail
07:33<themill>there are several
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07:33<themill>,alternatives mail
07:33<judd>Alternative mail in sid: bsd-mailx, heirloom-mailx, mailutils, nmh.
07:33<themill>(bsd-mailx is the "normal" one iirc)
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07:39<MrFrood>bsd-mailx and heirloom mailx are essntially the same in operation but heirloom can be setup to work with external mail servers as it supports pop smtp imap unlike bsd-mailx which will only work locally
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07:40<themill>new we could rely on your knowledge of obsolete subsystems ;)
07:40<themill>k
07:40<MrFrood>:)
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07:41<MrFrood>themill: heirloom is my goto daily email client - it has very nice threading which is great with mailing lists :)
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07:52<mulars>ciao, ho problemi ad aggiornare il sistema. Mi date una mano per favore?
07:52<chele>!it
07:52<dpkg>Ciao, vai su #debian-it per ricevere aiuto in italiano. Italian Speakers: Please use #debian-it, there you will get much more help.
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09:12<gas>Hi there. When watching video with VLC, I observe "tearing". At first I thought it was the video itself, but now I have checked it with other files too. Could it be the VLC problem, or is it deeper in the system?
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09:15<awal>gas, have you tried to play same files with another app?
09:15<awal>say mpv or mplayer (smplayer)
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09:16<gas>No... I'll try to see if there is another player in the system.
09:17<tmsbrg>if it's a VLC problem, a possible fix is to try different VLC outputs. In Tools->Preferences->Video->Output is a list with a lot of possibilites, but you have to restart whenever you change it, and a lot of them are not great. But that often fixes my VLC video problems
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09:19<gas>I tried smplayer, and the tearing is there as well.
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09:21<gas>Here someone thinks it's just because X11 doesn't provide any means to do vertical synchronisation: http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/182801/why-is-video-tearing-such-a-problem-in-linux. Is it plausible?
09:22<tmsbrg>I never really noticed much tearing myself
09:23<gas>In my case it's not too bad, but it slowly makes me more and more frustrated...
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09:25<gas>Another guy at the same page claims it may be a window manager issue...
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09:25<gas>I do have XFCE with xfwm, I believe.
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09:29<gas>Danm, I have tearing even in the browser!
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10:10<chele>!wayland
10:10<dpkg>Wayland is a display server protocol and implementation library, intended as a simpler replacement for the X Window System. Ask me about <weston>. http://wayland.freedesktop.org/ #wayland on irc.freenode.net.
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10:11<narcan>themill judd MrFrood thank you
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10:14<narcan>themill: bsd-mailx, it was this one :) thanks
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10:49<rinpoo>Does debian without gui automatically use power saving functions like hdd powerdown?
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10:52<amacater>Debian without GUI is command line only - there's nothing to stop any power management tools being installed. Since the prime place for this would be servers, though - what would a server need with hdd powerdown?
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10:52<amacater> .... pick your tools and your use case
10:52<sney>rinpoo: it varies. some stuff like cpu frequency control is in the kernel. I'm not sure about hdd power down but it would depend on acpi configuration and whether that was enabled in hardware. I know some hard drives nowadays have variable rpm built into the firmware
10:53<rinpoo>the HDDs are new
10:53<rinpoo>MB and CPU too
10:54<rinpoo>I have a nas
10:54<rinpoo>and I dont want the HHDs to use energy when they are not use
10:54<rinpoo>used
10:54<rinpoo>HDDs
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10:56<sney>the variable rpm thing varies among hard drive types. I'm pretty sure server and NAS drives don't have it, while it's a major selling point for the desktop models
10:56<sney>you may look into acpid and tuning acpi for minimum power usage
10:56<amacater>However, spinning up / down disks is what takes most energy and you sacrifice latency. That's subtly different from needing them not to time out when you're trying to move data between them: some Green drives caused problems in a NAS because they spun down / powered down unexpectedly
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10:56<rinpoo>the problem is I don;'t use the drives very often
10:57<amacater>WD Reds seem to be liked by a lot of people
10:57<rinpoo>if they run 24/7 the bill will get huge
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10:58<rinpoo>I sometimes dont use the drives for days
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10:58<amacater>It's a coin toss: if you want low power, then you buy a NAS with ARM chips embedded: if you want availability, you use constantly running disks: if you want low power/fast access - use SSD
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10:59<amacater>If all you want is a backup every now and again - roll your own NAS and only switch it on when you're going to use it
10:59<rinpoo>I think I have arm chips embedded
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11:00<amacater>Then, if you've got something like QNAP / Buffalo - let the NAS settings handle the drives
11:00<rinpoo>well i use it as a mediaserver too
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11:01<rinpoo>One HDD is used a lot and the others only for backups
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11:02<rinpoo>well Im using openmediavault which is pretty much debian
11:02<amacater>Chances are that the CPU runs at less than 5W, you don't have fans, sound cards, graphics cards ... takes it down to less than 20W total compared with a base PC being much higher.
11:02<amacater>If you're using 1/5 the power, you can afford to leave it on longer .. its a trade off.
11:02<rinpoo>yes
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11:04<amacater>Also - if these are traditional HDD, you don't necessarily want drives spinning down / back up again - longer lifetime by running oonstantly.
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11:05<rinpoo>well I have to calculate what it would cost
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11:08<rinpoo>If I let the HDDs on 24/7 it will cost me about 80eur a year
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11:08<rinpoo>that is too much
11:08<rinpoo>I could buy a new HDD every year for that
11:11<rinpoo>I've just read that there is Autoshutdown which is better than spindown
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11:16<rinpoo>well Im off then
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12:16<ibm>how can i register in oftc
12:16<ibm>my username
12:16<ibm>?
12:16<ibm>?
12:17<limpkitty>Hi, I have installed Debian 8 and I’m having trouble setting up ntp with systemd. I thought I had it all set up correctly, but my clock is 4 hours behind. Here is the output of timedatectl: http://pastebin.com/BvBrcWda
12:17<somiaj>ibm: /msg nickserv help, or ask in #oftc
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12:17<somiaj>limpkitty: could it be your time zone or setting for using UTC time is incorrect?
12:17-!-pheanex [~pheanex@xdsl-213-196-194-181.netcologne.de] has joined #debian
12:17<somiaj>!timezone
12:17<dpkg>A time zone is the standard time (aka local time) in a particular region. To change the timezone on Debian systems, execute "dpkg-reconfigure tzdata". Alternatively: "cp -b /usr/share/zoneinfo/$TZ /etc/localtime". Note that tzselect(1) does not change the timezone. Postfix users: execute "service postfix restart" to update localtime in the chroot.
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12:18<somiaj>!utc
12:18<dpkg>Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) is the standard by which the world regulates clocks and time (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coordinated_Universal_Time). For Debian 7 "Wheezy" and later, set "UTC" or "LOCAL" in /etc/adjtime (man 8 hwclock). For Debian 6.0 "Squeeze", set the UTC option in /etc/default/rcS appropriately (man rcs). For all systems, run «service hwclock.sh restart» to apply changes. See also <windows utc>.
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12:20<limpkitty>somiaj: it seems that my UTC time is 4 hours behind…
12:21<somiaj>limpkitty: what makes you think that? did you run the commands the bot said to set the time zone and make sure you correctly set your clock to UTC or LOCAL?
12:22<limpkitty>compare my pastebin link with this: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/timezone/utc
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12:23<limpkitty>my timezone is correct and /etc/adjtime is set to UTC
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12:24<somiaj>limpkitty: what ntp package did you install?
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12:25<limpkitty>somiaj: apparently I have both ntp and ntpdate installed… could there be a conflict?
12:25<koollman>ntpdate is not useful if you have ntp
12:26<koollman>LC_ALL=C LANG=C date -u
12:26<koollman>Tue Feb 23 17:26:42 UTC 2016
12:26<koollman>how far away are you from this ? :)
12:27<limpkitty>Tue Feb 23 13:24:32 UTC 2016
12:27<koollman>right. so, either ntp is not working at all or gave up, or your system is in the wrong timezone
12:27<somiaj>limpkitty: most suggest ntp, it is a daemon that keeps your clock synced. ntpdate is a program you have to manually run to sync your clocks.
12:27<koollman>considering the minute, I would say ntp is not working
12:28<koollman>limpkitty: can you paste the output of this in http://paste.debian.net/ : ntpq -pn
12:29<limpkitty>http://paste.debian.net/402805/
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12:35<limpkitty>koollman: I am not exactly sure how to interpret the output, but the refid column looks weird
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12:36<koollman>limpkitty: refid is wrong, it means your ntp server cannot connect. something is blocking ntp
12:36<limpkitty>ok, maybe I need to talk to my sysadmin then?
12:37<koollman>yes
12:37<koollman>maybe there's a specific ntp server inside the network and you are not supposed to go out
12:37<koollman>most likely, udp port 123 is filtered somewhere between your machine and the internet
12:39<limpkitty>sounds reasonable. I will check into this. Thanks koollman and somiaj!
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12:52<modestcargo>Hi can anyone help me with a grub issue?
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12:54<somiaj>modestcargo: what is your issue?
12:54<narcan>modestcargo: ask your question directly :)
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12:57<modestcargo>somiaj: Sorry. I have recently installed Debian after being away from linux for some time. When I first installed I had to mess with some UEFI settings so I could install from the DVD. After the install I had grub working and could boot into Win 7. Now my machine just boots straight into Debian.. not sure when exactly this happened as I haven't needed Win for a while so haven't paid attention to whether GRUB showed upon b
12:57<modestcargo>oot.
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12:59<modestcargo>somiaj: /dev/sda1 * 2048 206847 204800 100M 7 HPFS/NTFS/exFAT This is my pre-existing boot partition if that helps at all.
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13:00<somiaj>modestcargo: so you want windows to show up to grub?
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13:01<modestcargo>Yes that's correct. The grub menu does not show upon boot. I am confused as to why and when this happened.
13:02<somiaj>modestcargo: wait, the grub menu doesn't show up, or the grub menu doens't include windows (two different issues)
13:02<somiaj>I asked if it showed windows.
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13:02<modestcargo>somiaj: Does not show up.
13:02<somiaj>!fixmbr
13:02<dpkg>To reinstall <GRUB> boot to your Debian install disk/live CD, switch to the other console (Alt-F2), mount your root filesystem (mount -t ext2 /dev/whatever /target ; mount --bind /dev /target/dev ; mount -t proc none /target/proc ; mount -t sysfs none /target/sys), chroot into it (chroot /target), run "mount /boot/efi" on EFI and "update-grub && grub-install /dev/whatever". See also <rescue mode>, <dual boot guide>, <supergrub>.
13:03<somiaj>If you are using efi boot you need to ensure you do this from something that supports efi boot (debian live images do not)
13:03<somiaj>if you are using legacy boot you can ignore the stuff about the EFI
13:04<modestcargo>somiaj: I believe I am using legacy boot. I will reboot, confirm that and then follow those instructions. Thanks for your help
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13:14<modestcargo>somiaj: To be clear I am booted into Debian right now and all is well on the debian side of things, can I reinstall grub from here? Or do I need to use the live disc
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13:16<somiaj>how did you boot into debian?
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13:17<somiaj>but once you chroot into your install it should be just fine
13:18<modestcargo>somiaj: My system boots straight into Debian and I don't see the grub menu. Which is odd because years ago if I had any problems with boot loaders my systems would either boot straight into windows or not at all
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13:18<somiaj>modestcargo: oh that may be a different issue than i pointed you to
13:19<somiaj>check your grub configurations to ensure you have a wait time set, use to be /etc/default/grub
13:19<modestcargo>somaij: ok ill have a look
13:19<somiaj>anyways I have to head out
13:19<modestcargo>somaij: Ok thanks again for the help
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13:22<modestcargo>Can anyone else give me a hand with grub not working and my system booting straight into debian?
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13:24<mtn>modestcargo: did you check out your time delay in the grub config?
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13:25<modestcargo>mtn: Yes timeout is 5s
13:26<modestcargo>mtn: GRUB_TIMEOUT=5
13:26<mtn>modestcargo: and you don't see the grub menu when you boot?
13:26<modestcargo>mtn: No not at all
13:26<mtn>modestcargo: try holding down the shift key while booting, start right at start of boot
13:27<modestcargo>mtn: It was working a couple of weeks ago, showing Debian and Win 7 as options and booting into Deb after 5s
13:27<mtn>modestcargo: ok, how about running update-grub again? tried that?
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13:28<modestcargo>mtn: OK I will give update-grub a shot and then boot with shift. I wonder if there is an irc client for iphone so i can chat while doing all of this.
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13:28<mtn>modestcargo: I am sure there is one.
13:28<mtn>modestcargo: after update-grub, just try a normal boot
13:29<modestcargo>mtn: OK, be right back. I have done update-grub.
13:29<modestcargo>mtn: Thank you
13:29<mtn>welcome
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13:35<modestcargo>mtn: No dice on grub after grub-update or holding shift at boot
13:35<mtn>modestcargo: did you say you were using legacy boot?
13:36<modestcargo>mtn: 90 per cent sure I am. I can find out.
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13:36<mtn>modestcargo: yes, please do find out
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13:38<kraiskil>I want to remove my OpenCL ICD loader, and when I remove one, apt installs the next one for me. I've cycled through ocl-icd, amd, beignet (do they even have an ICD loader? if so, why)
13:38<kraiskil>Finally, mesa wants to pull in clang/LLVM 3.5. Just because I want to remove ocl-icd... What is happening here?
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13:43<modestcargo>mtn: efi boot was enabled for usb devices, I have disabled it and got my grub menu back!
13:43<mtn>modestcargo: ah, good
13:43<modestcargo>mtn: Not sure why I would have enabled that, but at any rate thanks for your help
13:43<mtn>modestcargo: welcome
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15:45<thomasross>I'm having some trouble trying to updat & upgrade: https://paste.debian.net/hidden/f4874d4e/
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15:46<retrospectacus>dpkg: tell thomasross about frankendebian
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15:47<thomasross>retrospectacus: yes?
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15:47<kenyon>thomasross: well, you have a bunch of non-debian sources, and you are mixing releases and using experimental, so working pretty muchas expected
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15:48<thomasross>kenyon: how am I mixing releases? (also: I am only using experimental for iceweasel described here: http://mozilla.debian.net/)
15:49<kenyon>thomasross: see dpkg's message.
15:50<jmcnaught>thomasross: it might help if you make a paste of your sources.list and the other info listed by dpkg's "bat" factoid. Also if you're using stretch you should be asking in #debian-next
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15:55<thomasross>Alright, I'll try #debian-next
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16:28<jrtc27>is anyone else seeing a different font for debian-devel-digest?
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16:42<jrtc27>!dinstall
16:42<dpkg>rumour has it, dinstall is the part of <dak> that processes newly uploaded packages. It is run 4 times per day at 0152 0752 1352 1952 UTC. See http://ftp-master.debian.org/#dinstall
16:43<jrtc27>...
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16:48<justin50>Hi, I have a problem, on booting Debian 8.3 I get the following message: a start job is running for dev-disk-by
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16:49<justin50>And some text behind it. This happens since I installed another GNU/Linux distro (Ubuntu) next to it in dual-boot and there I increased the swap size (this swap is also used for Debian)
16:50<justin50>This makes the booting much slower and also I have no active swap partition in Debian
16:51<xy>did you ever check this? https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=161814
16:52-!-glebihan [~glebihan@128-79-36-28.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:52<justin50>Yes i see it but what shoud I do? Edit that file?
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16:53<justin50>I wanna be very careful and do not want to break my system
16:54<xy>check the last 2 comments from that link
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16:58<justin50>Yes, thanks. So what should I do precisely?
16:59-!-glebihan [~glebihan@128-79-36-28.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #debian
16:59<justin50># swap was on /dev/sda5 during installation
16:59<justin50>UUID=a53627d5-8a8e-4f1d-a68e-db6358a4388a none swap sw 0 0
17:00<justin50>Those lines are for the swap partition
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17:26<justin50>I would like to thank xy, his suggestion helped me to fix the problem
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17:47<tempfish>does anyone here use nm-applet?
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17:47<tempfish>I use the command-line interface to called "nmcli"
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17:48<mtn>tempfish: what is the question/problem?
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17:51<tempfish>mtn: i am trying to use nmcli to connect to a 802.1 network
17:52<tempfish>but It keeps complaining that it "cannot determine the AP Security Information"
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17:53<tempfish>mtn: I will try to see if I can get it be a bit more verbose
17:54<mtn>tempfish: if you can give a detailed account of the problem, perhaps someone will be able to help
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17:56<tempfish>mtn: sure, I am running debian on my laptop and I use nmcli to interact with network manager ( Its commandline)
17:56-!-amacater [~amacater@cpc78091-stav21-2-0-cust72.17-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #debian
17:57<tempfish>mtn: today, I am trying to connect to a different network (at a university) like so "nmcli dev wifi connect "SSID" password " " " without any luck.
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17:58<tempfish>mtn: it fails to connect with the following error: "Failed to add/activate new connection: (32) Failed to determine AP Security Information"
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18:01<somewan>Hey, am I supposed to install the netinst cd version of Debian using a wired connection?
18:01<somewan>The install just says the dhcp configuration failed, even though my network uses dhcp...
18:01<themill>You can complete an installation without any network connection at all, you can use a wireless device if it is supported or you can use a wired connection
18:02<somewan>Oops, forgot to mention i want to use a wireless connection
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18:07<somewan>My TouchPad also doesn't seem to be detected...
18:07<amacater>If your wireless card is supported without any firmware issues, you can do this if not - connect wired. What's the computer you're trying to install on
18:08<mtn>somewan: or use the version with firmware: http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware
18:09*amacater has issues with a brand new laptop which works under Debian Testing but not Debian stable, for example
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18:11<somewan>Amacater: hp probook 450 g3
18:11<somewan>Mtn: thanks, I'll try that
18:11<mtn>somewan: welcome
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18:14<amacater>That's the very newest HP Probook
18:15<somewan>Yep
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18:16<amacater>Owners of older ones told me of touchpad difficulties under Ubuntu: HP were shipping older laptops with Ubuntu 12.04. Anything on any wiki pages?
18:16<somewan>Nothing bout this series, unfortunately...
18:16<amacater>Do you have Windows running on it at the moment - to identify chipsets, names of wifi cards, names of drivers before you try installing Linux?
18:16-!-ixti [~ixti@25.8.165.83.dynamic.reverse-mundo-r.com] has joined #debian
18:16<somewan>My TouchPad wasn't working at all on the graphical installer, tho
18:17<somewan>Yeah amacater
18:17<somewan>Any utility to get that easily?
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18:18<amacater>Jessie is running kernel version 3: Debian Testing - Stretch - runs kernel 4.3 or 4.4 and may have the drivers you need.
18:18<amacater>If there's Windows 10 on there at the minute - Settings - device manager or some such - type device manager into the search
18:19<amacater>That assumes you're happy to boot Windows once: if not, just use Debian testing with firmware iso to check.
18:20<somewan_>I'm running windows 10 right now, unfortunately. :(
18:20<somewan_>(Well, I have some of the botnet removed, but that's assuming I even removed 10% of it...)
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18:20<somewan_>intel dual band wireless-ac 3165... is this it?
18:21<amacater>https://www.linuxnow.com.au/nshpT3Z16PT.html - lists compatibility as excellent.
18:22<somewan_>well, I'll try debian testing first, I guess.
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18:24<amacater>Looks like that's the most likely for support of brand new hardware. If you install on wired and use Jessie - current Debian stable - you may have the packages you need in jessie backports
18:24<somewan_>the problem is that I can't really install on wired right now. Don't know where I put my ethernet cable, and it's the middle of the night, so it's not like I can go out and buy one.
18:24<somewan_>Gotta hope testing's got the drivers I need.
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18:28<amacater>If it's the middle of the night, now is not the best time to be starting ... you want the unofficial cd with firmware
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18:29<somewan_>amacater, my sleep schedule is messed up anyway, might as well do it now rather than laze around all day tomorrow. ;_;
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18:29<amacater>http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/weekly-builds/amd64/iso-cd/firmware-testing-amd64-netinst.iso
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18:30<amacater>Happy to help - I've got to go to bed myself
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18:31<amacater>Any breakage - you get to keep both pieces
18:31<somewan_>amacater, I used to run arch - I don't mind breakage.
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18:32<amacater>Oh, and don't forget to turn off secure boot if enabled in UEFI/BIOS
18:32<somewan_>It's not like this is gonna run on a server anyway. :p
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18:45<somewan>So I just realized I downloaded the version of testing without the nonfree firmware. Oh well.
18:45<amacater>It won't work then - back you go :(
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19:20<daddyblack>hi
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19:21<somewan>So..
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19:23<somewan>Even with testing and the package including nonfree firmwares, my TouchPad doesn't work, and I can't install the wireless drivers.
19:23<somewan>Even If I select the option to install the firmware, it'll load for a moment and then lead me to the same screen.
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19:27<jrtc27>!debian-next
19:27<dpkg>#debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on Freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
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19:28<jrtc27>oh he left
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19:57<twb>What's the dpkg bot entry for the FSF/DFSG dispute about GF- ah, it's <GFDL>
19:57<twb>I was looking for "manuals" and "docs" instead
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20:35<twb>On GNU/Linux, how can I check the ulimits of an already-running process?
20:35<twb>(That isn't bash)
20:35<twb>Ah, /proc/N/limits?
20:36<branau>Hi everyone
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20:37<branau>I've been considering using Debian though I'm not sure really what the differences are between it and Ubuntu, except that Ubuntu has some different repos and is more open to proprietary software. Are there any other major differences between the two distros?
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20:40<twb>branau: the most obvious difference for a desktop user is that Ubuntu defaults to Mir (not X).
20:41<Arcade>I have a question I keep getting a : NetworkManager[788]: <error> [1456277996.544222] [rdisc/nm-lndp-rdisc.c:241] send_rs(): (wlan0): cannot send router solicitation: -1. is this happen to be related to a blocked port?
20:41<twb>Ubuntu is downstream of Debian (mostly), they have different release schedule and support schedule.
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20:41<branau> twb I tend to spend more time in the terminal or in a web browser, I don't pay much attention to GUIs. I currently dual boot Xubuntu and Arch, I just wanted to get a bit more info on Debian
20:41<twb>In Ubuntu, support could be 6 months or 5 years, and it's on a package-by-package basis
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20:42<branau>What's the support cycle look like in Debian?
20:43<twb>I think security support in debian is for two releases, except for some problem children (like chromium)
20:43<twb>Debian releases roughly every two years, similar to Ubuntu LTS cycle. Debian releases can be delayed if there are unresolved problems.
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20:44<twb>debian and ubuntu have more in common than they have different
20:45<weilancys>mostly 5 years for each release, within which 2 years are by the security team, 3 years are by the LTS team, this is as far as I know.
20:46<branau>So then, could there be a pros/cons list of Debian vs Ubuntu?
20:46<branau>For example Arch is incredibly customizable, but requires hours of wiki reading and trial and error whereas Ubuntu ships out with bloatware but is easy to get going
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20:47<twb>Debian's governance is also significantly different (to Ubuntu/Canonical)
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20:47<branau>twb how so? Is Debian backed by any business?
20:48<twb>in canonical, the team leader says "we do it this way" and so it is written
20:48<twb>in debian, there is a lot more bikeshedding and rule by committee
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20:49<twb>The end result is that ubuntu makes changes faster, but they are more likely to be dumb changes
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20:50<branau>Interesting. I'm not a huge fan of open sourced software being backed by a business, so that's definitely something to keep in mind. What is the primary/default DE for debian?
20:50<branau>I've seen a few but which one receives the most attention?
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20:51<twb>Different install media default to different desktops
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20:51<twb>GNOME3 is the most likely if you make no effort to specify
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20:51<twb>this is similar to ubuntu/xubuntu/kubuntu, which are essentially the same distro, just different package installed by default
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20:52<branau>Yeah, but I would say that Unity is arguably the primary DE for Ubuntu
20:52<branau>It's the one that Canonical pours its effort into at least
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20:53<twb>debian isn't backed by a single company, but by a bunch of individuals and companies working together
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20:54<twb>With a whole bunch of formal procedures to work out who wins when they disagree
20:54-!-Zimmer_Nova [~zimmer@host109-149-22-58.range109-149.btcentralplus.com] has joined #debian
20:54<twb>(The end users mostly don't encounter that, though.)
20:55<branau>How is contribution regarded? I've found that since Ubuntu is so big, they all seem to care less if one contributes or not because they already have so many people working on things, whereas Arch greatly appreciates contributors because they have a much smaller user base
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20:56<twb>it depends
20:56<twb>there is a high degree of autonomy for each package maintaine
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20:57<twb>So the same email might get different amount of hostility or grumpiness from e.g. the GNOME team versus the icewm maintainer
20:58<branau>See if I were to contribute, it would be directly to Debian, and not one of it's packages. I know Python, but I work as a web developer so that's my primary area of contribution
20:58<branau>its*
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20:58<twb>historically debian has focused on packaging above all else, but that's changed in recent years
20:59<twb>You could try installing the package how-can-i-help, which is a bit like harvest.ubuntu.com to help people get started contributing
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21:00<branau>Interesting. I'll have to give that a shot. I ran a live ISO in a virtualbox to get a feel for Debian, because I was intrigued by it when I saw Maru OS and realized that I had Debian running on my tablet within an app. Versatility like that is incredible
21:00<twb>Debian has a bunch of web app stuff (e.g. codesearch.debian.net), I assume some of it is in Python, and they probably have pseudopackages in the BTS. I don't know much about that because I hate the web
21:01<twb>Yeah debian tries to be useful for all environments, not just desktops. It is not good at running on systemd with <256MB of memory (RAM + disk), though
21:03<branau>That's what I find most impressive I think. My computers have pretty good specs though, because of my work, so I shouldn't run into that issue
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21:03<twb>well yeah that is for people running debian on routers and traffic lights and such
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21:05<branau>Yeah, fair enough. The raspberry pi devices also run a modified version of debian called raspbian don't they?
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21:05<twb>raspbian is based on debian, yes
21:06<twb>This is because debian has two ARM architectures -- a fast modern one, and a slow one for old hardware. rpi people wanted debian optimized to run fast on their old hardware
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21:07<twb>Also I assume they wanted to include some software that isn't open source, like the rpi video drivers
21:09<branau>Interesting. Whats the debian community generally like?
21:11<twb>I'm not sure you can categorize the community as a whole
21:11<twb>That's like saying "what are europeans like?"
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21:12<Arcade>is it possible someone could look at the question I had asked
21:12<twb>Arcade: sorry
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21:12<Maulkin>branau: In general, I'd say fairly open, but because of the way we value contributions we value that over most other things.
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21:13<twb>Arcade: "router solicitation" sounds like an IPv6 RA thing. I don't know about NM or IPv6, though
21:14<twb>Arcade: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPv6#Stateless_address_autoconfiguration_.28SLAAC.29
21:14<twb>Arcade: if you are not using IPv6 on your LAN, I think you can ignore it
21:14-!-jamesawagner3 [~james@70.15.18.133.res-cmts.sm.ptd.net] has joined #debian
21:14<Maulkin>If you use IPv6, add a rule of: Policy: Allow, Direction: Out, To: ff02::2
21:15<Maulkin>Or similar
21:15<branau>twb fair enough. Maulkin I see, thanks for the input. I think I'll give Debian a shot. I like to dual boot arch with a stable distro just in case, but I'm not 100% satisfied with Ubuntu, and Debian has definitely piqued my interest
21:15<Arcade>ff02::2 being localhost?
21:15<Maulkin>branau: Awesome! Remeber, you can use backports for newer stuff if you want, or if feeling brave, you can give testing or unstable a try.
21:16<Maulkin>Though bear in mind those can break occasionally.
21:16<Arcade>oh I see multicast does ipv4 have the same thing?
21:16<branau>Yeah, I'll have to do some reading on the different software sources
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21:17<branau>I think I'd rather stick with the stable branches, because I would be relying on Debian to save my arse if Arch starts acting up on me and I don't have time to fix it
21:17<twb>branau: I think Maulkin was saying to run debian testing instead of arch :-)
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21:18<branau>Haha I didn't spend hours reading through wikis and writing configuration files to throw it all away so easily :P It'd take a lot for me to part completely from Arch.
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21:19<twb>>shrug< that's your call, of course
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21:20<branau>But hey, I really appreciate your help! thank you twp and Maulkin, I'll be sure to give Debian a shot
21:20<Maulkin>No problems :)
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21:21<twb>Arcade: multicast in general, no. This relates to network initialization. I don't know if it applies to network initialization on IPv4 without DHCPv4
21:22<Arcade>twb, mind I ask how I could set it up using ufw
21:22<Arcade>like ufw allow out ff02::2?
21:22<twb>Sorry, I don't support ufw
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21:31<Arcade>twb, turning off ipv6 did the trick. It looks like adding it to the firewall is some work
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21:40<ivan_>i was tring to add a ppa and it said ppas are not supported im on linux how can i fix this
21:40<azure>i have a question how do i enable multilib and disable it i need to use tsmuxer. Also will it affect anything?
21:41<twb>azure: sorry, I don't understand the question. Can you rephrase?
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21:41<jmcnaught>ivan_: PPAs are a Ubuntu feature, not relevant on Debian. What are you trying to install? Is it already available in Debian?
21:41<ivan_>nvm thx
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21:42<azure>Sorry i want to enable multilib i have 64bit installed but i dont want a ton of 32 bit librarys will it hurt anything on my system i guess is the second question. I just recntly started using debain i was on ubuntu so i didnt have to enable the 32bit before.
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21:44<twb>azure: OK so you have an amd64 (x86-64) install, and you want to run i386 (IA32) binaries?
21:44<azure>Yes that is correct
21:44<twb>azure: or are you trying to cross-compile?
21:45<twb>azure: if multiarch support is enabled, you can just put :i386 on the package name
21:45<azure>no just run 32bit programs
21:45<twb>azure: e.g. "apt-get install libfoo1:i386"
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21:45<twb>Each library will have its own package, so the list will be long, but the actual space required will be small
21:46<azure>ok so it wont affect my 64bit though or my base syatem?
21:46<twb>if you use apt-get, it should not cause problems
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21:46<jmcnaught>azure: you need to do "dpkg --add-architecture i386 && apt-get update" first, check https://wiki.debian.org/Multiarch/HOWTO for some more details
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21:47<azure>ok thank you i just didnt want to mess anything up i still want a stable system
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22:10<azure>where are the wine libs located?
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22:12<azure>never mind found it how do i instlal the 32 bit wine libs?
22:13<jmcnaught>azure: https://wiki.debian.org/Wine#Debian_Jessie_and_newer
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23:19<alheimurinn>Hi everyone!
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23:26<jamesawagner3>Something's screwy with the Noveau driver on NV40 hardware. It keeps throwing an oops at me, everytime I launch neverputt/ball. I've collected three different crash dumps and they all seem to point to drm_handle_vblank. I'm gonna build the latest kernel from kernel.org before I try to file upstream and get ripped a new one. Has anyone else noticed kernel oopies with the noveau module?
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23:27<twb>I banned those two apps because they cause problems on my intel GPUs
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23:28<twb>I didn't bother to investigate
23:28<jamesawagner3>I've been up and down the information superhighway 7 times in the past 4 hours, and I've only found some vague references upstream to kernel oops from null pointers (like mine) in 4.4.x.
23:28<jamesawagner3>The backtrace was different though.
23:28<twb>jamesawagner3: ^ that was for you
23:29<jamesawagner3>I love neverputt! More specifically, it's a nice roundtable game, when there's nothing else for bored people to do.
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23:29<twb>I wonder if there's a FOSS clone of M.U.L.E.
23:29<jamesawagner3>We almost put my laptop on a lazy susan a couple of times, to save on passing the potato.
23:30<jamesawagner3>More to the point, I'm not calling never[ball|putt] great games, but launching an OpenGL application as a regular user should never be enough to take out the entire kernel from a null pointer.
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23:30<twb>yeah I didn't have problems that bad
23:30<twb>they just didn't reset the display resolution properly when they quit
23:31<jamesawagner3>I had that problem too. I think I wrote a shell script wrapper back in 2012ish to reset the display with xrandr -s. By 2014 I stopped caring enough haha.
23:36<jamesawagner3>It's actually funny, now that I think of it. If noveau just crashed the X server, I probably would just ignore it, and move on. Or maybe pop in the legacy driver from Nvidia. I only care because it's taking out the whole damn kernel. I'm more impressed than anything, honestly. Glxgears works. Xscreensaver works. Foobilliardplus works. And the Neverball engine kills penguins dead. WTF
23:38<twb>wait is it nv or nouveau?
23:38<twb>Sorry, I automatically read "nv" because it wasn't working :P
23:38<jamesawagner3>Nouveau. Definitely nouveau.
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---Logclosed Wed Feb 24 00:00:05 2016