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#debian IRC Logs for 2016-03-02

---Logopened Wed Mar 02 00:00:24 2016
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02:01<user_>hello world
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02:29<RealMurphy>Good morning everyone. Just a question about the old "glibc" and recent openssl updates for stable and oldstable. Given I have a large number of machines to update - what about restarting services which depend on the updates? Is this needed (I guess so), but is there an automated way to find out what to restart?
02:30<vortek>hello i installed eufi or uefi package cuase i though i had that type of bios and now xwindows wont start
02:31<RealMurphy>DSA-3500 does not say anything about that
02:31<jm_>RealMurphy: isn't there a note about it in the security announcement?
02:31<RealMurphy>jm_: not that I can see "We recommend that you upgrade your openssl packages.: is the last bit in https://www.debian.org/security/2016/dsa-3500
02:32<RealMurphy>vortek: Any errors in /var/log/Xorg.0.log?
02:32<jm_>RealMurphy: for glibc it does say it While it is only necessary to ensure that all processes are not using the old glibc anymore, it is recommended to reboot the machines after applying the security upgrade.
02:32<jm_>but yes, you should definitely restart them for the ssl update
02:32<RealMurphy>jm_: yeah, done that (painful for O(3000) machines but doable... would like not to repeat that ;)
02:33<vortek>yeah its complaing about nvidia driver not found , i have a laptop with nvidia optimus
02:33<RealMurphy>jm_: So, possibly I'll do the obvious and at least restart public facing services
02:34<RealMurphy>vortek: which version are you on? have you installed the nvidia-dkms package?
02:34<jm_>RealMurphy: lsof -n|grep libssl shall identify it all
02:34<vortek>vrrsion of debian?
02:34<RealMurphy>vortek: yes
02:35<RealMurphy>jm_: ok, was not 100% sure that this would identify all
02:35<vortek>debian 8
02:35<RealMurphy>jm_: thanks a lot! Would it make sense to contact security team for an addendum?
02:36<RealMurphy>vortek: nvidia driver installed via Debian package or from upstream, i.e. nvidia itself?
02:37<jm_>RealMurphy: possibly, maybe check how old ones were worded too
02:38<vortek>im not sure
02:39<vortek>i need to get xwin to ask me what xserver to use
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02:39<RealMurphy>vortek: what does dpkg -l |grep -i nvidia tell you?
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02:41<vortek>a bunch of stuff
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02:42<vortek>like 15 things including bublebee
02:44<RealMurphy>vortek: darn, sorry, I have next to no expereince with bumblebee/optimus, I fear I will not be able to help you, perhaps someone else here might
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02:47<vortek>k
02:47<vortek>:)
02:48<vortek>im removing all the packages that the command you gave me said were installed
02:48<vortek>and im gona start fresh
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02:51<jm_>wouldn't it make much more sense to remove stuff that broke it?
02:51<vortek>i dont know how to
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02:53<vortek>i mean i know how to remove packages but not how to tell what it broke
02:53<vortek>brb rebooting
02:53<jm_><vortek> hello i installed eufi or uefi package cuase i though i had that type of bios and now xwindows wont start
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03:17<twb>Anybody have a good log of DHCP Vendor Class instances seen in the wild?
03:18<twb>I'm blocking DHCP clients that claim to be MSFT.* (i.e. Windows), and wondering what else I could list
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03:45<twb>Is dhcpcd packaged for debian? I can't find it.
03:45<twb>The one all the gentoo weenies use
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03:46<twb>Looks like it was removed after wheezy?
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03:46<jako>someone who had installed redshift on debian
03:46<jako>hello btw
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03:47<twb>jako: hi, do you need support?
03:47<jako>yes please
03:47<twb>Please describe the problem
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03:47<jako>i was trying to install redshit on debian
03:49<jako>I did the installation but i cannot make it run
03:49<twb>jako: you did something like "sudo apt-get install redshift" ?
03:49<jako>yes
03:49<twb>You are on Jessie?
03:49<jm_>try /usr/share/doc/redshift/README.Debian
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03:50<jako>jessie yes
03:50<twb>Thanks
03:50<twb>jako: please do as jm_ suggests.
03:50<jako>ok
03:50<jako>thank you
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03:51<ao2>hi, it looks like the apt "fancy" progress bar does not work anymore with the current apt version in unstable, does anyone know more about that? I have "Dpkg::Progress-Fancy "1";" in /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/99progressbar and this used to work on previous versions.
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03:52<twb>Should that be .../99progressbar.conf ?
03:52<twb>Nope
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03:53<twb>Does "apt-config dump" show that dpkg:: line has been read in correctly?
03:53<jako>@jm_ it is just about autostart? I cannot run that program even by tying in terminal
03:54<jm_>ao2: as teh topic says, help for unstable happens in #debian-next
03:54<jm_>jako: what happens if you do it?
03:54<jako>nothing
03:55<jm_>run ps auxw | grep '[r]edsh'
03:55<ao2>twb, I'll check that. jm_ thanks, I'll ask there, and sorry for the noise
03:55*twb twitches at that idiom to avoid showing grep in the grep
03:55<twb>I wish pgrep had a "and then run ps on it" type option
03:56<jako>sorry, i get an error "unable to get connection to geoclue bus
03:56<jako>and
03:57<jako>** (process:7349): CRITICAL **: dbus_g_proxy_call: assertion 'DBUS_IS_G_PROXY (proxy)' failed
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03:58<jako>that errors are if I run redshift, but if i run redshift-gtk, does nothing
03:59<jako>i was trying to find howto do it in google but im stuck
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04:03<jako>i created the redshift.conf file also
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04:04<twb>is there a dbus process running, owned by your user?
04:04<twb>That assertion is probably harmless
04:04<twb>Are you accidentally running redshift as root, instead of as yourself?
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04:13<jako>omg yes
04:13<jako>as root
04:13<twb>don't do that then :P
04:14<jako>ok
04:14<twb>Oh we like both kindsa users: herp AND derp!
04:14<jm_>just start it with x server
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04:31<jako>Failed to start adjustment method randr
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04:38<jako>maybe i need to install amd graphics support
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04:58<umlaeute>where is aptitude downloading changelogs from?
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04:59<umlaeute>i get a weird "Failed to download the changelog of libperl5.20: 404 Not found [IP: 185.31.17.249 80]" error for the latest security fixes
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05:01<umlaeute>so i would like to know which service is befind 185.31.17.249
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05:08<themill>umlaeute: changelogs for security updates aren't available to aptitude
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05:09<umlaeute>themill: thanks; they told me the same on #debian-ftp
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05:16<olspookishmagus>hello, how can I remove the entries that begin with "un" on the "dpkg -l" output?
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05:22<olspookishmagus>with more detail: http://pastie.org/pastes/10744638/text
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05:24<manpreet>grep -v un
05:24<manpreet>grep -v ^un
05:24<manpreet>grep -v " un"
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05:28-!-mode/#debian [+l 750] by debhelper
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05:35*olspookishmagus hands a troll-candy to manpreet
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05:38<manpreet>iteration-candy
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06:02<olspookishmagus>here's a little progress: http://pastie.org/pastes/10744686/text
06:03<olspookishmagus>it's it possible that I get those packages into the dpkg -l output because that they are being mentioned in those Breaks:/Enhances:/Conflicts: lines?
06:03<umlaeute>manpreet: " un", urgh
06:04<umlaeute>grep -vi "\bun"
06:04<olspookishmagus>bell?
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06:15<umlaeute>olspookishmagus: what are you trying to do?
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06:24<olspookishmagus>umlaeute: I'm done and btw thanks manpreet, umlaeute
06:25<umlaeute>guildenstern: you are trying to (re)purge packages that are Not-installed (aka "purged") and dpkg tells you that it can't do what you want.
06:25<umlaeute>oops, that was meant for olspookishmagus
06:25<umlaeute>and was too late anyhow
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06:47<vortek>you know how hit control alt f4 always shows you what debians doing behind scenes?
06:48<vortek>what log does debian pipe to alt f4?
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06:54<vortek>oh i found it
06:54<vortek>syslog it uses
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08:10<yotam>Hi, I'm thinking about switching from Fedora to Debian and I have a few questions before I install Debian.
08:10<yotam>Does Debian comes with Linux or Linux-Libre?
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08:11<yotam>I don't want to use the stable version because from what I have heard it have old packages, I want something to have similar stability of fedora, maybe a little bit newer softwares, what version is recommended?
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08:17<zeta>yotam: debian testing might be for you
08:17<zeta>!testing
08:17<dpkg>Testing is a continuously updated release between <stable> and <unstable>, currently codenamed <stretch>. See http://wiki.debian.org/DebianTesting . Support in #debian-next on irc.oftc.net and ask me about <testing faq> <jessie->stretch> <testing security> <moving target> <apt-listchanges> <apt-listbugs> and <bts>. You need a sound knowledge of Debian and be prepared for a very bumpy ride. Don't use it on things that are critical!
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08:28<sumeet>hello I am a beginner can someone help me?
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08:28<zyley>!ask
08:28<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
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08:29<sumeet>dpkg, great
08:29<dpkg>i guess great is cool
08:30<sumeet>how to install software environments
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09:31<scootergrisen>Does GIMP comes with Debian or do people have to install it seperately?
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09:34<grove>scootergrisen: `apt search gimp` on jessie finds several packages
09:35<scootergrisen>Yeah but does it come with Debian? Or do people have to install it manually
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09:43<grove>scootergrisen: What do you mean by "come with Debian"? It's not essential, so it's quite possible to install debian without getting gimp, I have no idea if it included in any task packages
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09:46<duclicsic>scootergrisen: there are different debian installers of varying sizes, some will give you only the most important packages, some come with software suites incliding things like gimp. I don't know for certain if any of them do come with gimp, but it is as simple as typing 'apt-get install gimp' into a terminal if you want it.
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10:13<mike__>/
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10:52<Yopyop>Hello, i have issue with strongswan and packet size, is there a way on a debian to force fragmentation before the packet arrive to strongswan, so it will always get the right packet size
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11:02<tagada>Hello my machine suddently gives a black screen but not shutdown (however i can not make it come back with my keybord). Linux debian 3.16.0-4-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 3.16.7-ckt20-1+deb8u3 (2016-01-17) x86_64 GNU/Linux
11:02<tagada>Before to get blank I usually see some console line but cannot read them
11:02<tagada>could someone tell me where is the right logs
11:03<tagada>??
11:03<tagada>thanks
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11:30<lichen>what is the best way to configure debian in virtual box and when I'm ready to install native, copy all of the settings / changes i've made?
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11:36<claw>lichen: you could just copy the whole virtual disk to a physical one and expand the partition(s) using dd
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11:38<lichen>wasn't sure if that would work, thanks.
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11:39<claw>lichen: if you are using qcow or alike you need to convert them to raw first
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11:44<peter1138>hmm, is there any where i can find older versions of .deb packages that have been updated? i'm looking for a previous version of curl in jessie. it's not in my archives :(
11:44<captnfab>peter1138: http://snapshot.debian.org/
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11:45<peter1138>thanks :D
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11:45<captnfab>you're welcome :)
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11:54<peter1138>hmm, and that doesn't help me fix this issue :(
11:54<peter1138>nor downgrading openssl. hmm.
11:55<blast007>peter1138: what issue are you having?
11:55<peter1138>trying to access an ssl site but curl says the certificate is invalid
11:56<peter1138>browsers, wget and openssl are able to verify the certificate fine.
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11:56<peter1138>curl: (60) SSL certificate problem: unable to get local issuer certificate
11:57<peter1138>also it works on wheezy, but not jessie.
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11:57<peter1138>it did work on jessie a while back, hence trying to downgrade various bits & pieces to see what changes
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12:13<captnfab>peter1138: tried to manually specify the CA certificate to use ?
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12:39<leonardo>hola
12:39<leonardo>hii
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12:41<peter1138>captnfab, yes, doesn't help
12:42<peter1138>(and the root ca is in /etc/ssl/certificates anyway)
12:42<peter1138>((er, /etc/ssl/certs))
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12:44<captnfab>ok
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13:27<oct>Anyone has any lightweight but advanced calculators to suggest?
13:30<muep>python
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14:15<ibm_>how can i register to oftc
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14:37<ibm_>how can i register to oftc
14:40<nrtga>type /msg nickserv help for instructions
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14:43<nrtga>cloak is /msg nickserv set cloak on from memory
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15:05<johannes293>hi there. booting into my newly installed debian fails. I already tried to reinstall grub via rescue mode on the install disk by manually reinstalling grub (mounting efi partition on /boot/efi, grub-install /dev/sda2, update-grub). this seems to work out but doesn't change anything. I also installed grub-efi as I read on some webpage.
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15:06<johannes293>i understand the problem is that grub doesn't even get loaded, but I have no idea where to look at next.
15:06<johannes293>if you could point me to the right direction, that would be gread.
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15:12<leonardo0112>Hi guys! I'm using Debian 8.3 amd64 and I installed Firefox browser by adding "deb http://packages.linuxmint.com debian import" to my /etc/apt/sources.list and then typing "sudo apt-get install firefox". My firefox is on version 43. How do I update it to version 44?
15:13<towo`>not supported
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15:15<leonardo0112>towo`: when version 44 will be released on mint packages, it will update automatically?
15:15<towo`>not supportetd
15:15<towo`>here is debian, not mint
15:15<towo`>and no one here supports any frankendebian
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15:54<juanan>hola a tod@s de la sala
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16:03<amacater>juanan - Este no es un canal en castellano, por si acaso seria mejor eligir #debian-es
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17:37<Torarino>Hey folks
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17:43<Torarino>Is there a simple way of clone a debian installation to other computers?
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17:43<sney>!aptitude clone
17:43<dpkg>To clone a Debian machine using aptitude (or install your favourite packages) use aptitude search --disable-columns -F%p '~i!~M!~v' > package_list; on the reference machine; xargs aptitude --schedule-only install < package_list; aptitude install; on the other machine. This preserves information about "automatically installed" packages that other methods do not. See also <reinstall>, <things to backup>, <debian clone>, <apt-clone>.
17:44-!-wizor [~yo@00020e6a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:44<sney>alternately partclone
17:44<Torarino>:-*
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17:54<Torarino>So partclone clones the whole partitons, whereas the aptitude stuff saves my configuration. Is there a way to create a bootable media. Need to master like 30 tablets..
17:55-!-faw [~Felipe@faw.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:55<sney>clonezilla can do disk cloning over a network
17:55<Torarino>Well which size will the image have then?
17:55-!-rf`1 [~MonkeyJam@76GAACX0B.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit []
17:56<sney>pretty much any modern cloning software can expand to a larger disk from a smaller image
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17:58<Torarino>Okay, do i have to care about uefi when i master another computer? Not really in that stuff.
17:58<szivroham>s
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17:59<sney>as long as the reference image is from the same hardware it shouldn't matter
17:59<sney>clonezilla seems to be efi-aware as well
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18:00<Torarino>Same Hardware, will take a closer look at clonezilla. Thank you!
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18:23<italiano>ciao
18:23<italiano>hello
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18:24<amacater>mi dispiace - #debian-it e migliore per lei
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18:42<alumno>ola
18:42<alumno>hols
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18:43<Jobbe>hm
18:44<Jobbe>so i got coreboot on my laptop with grub2 as payload
18:44<Jobbe>so i don't need a bootloader
18:44-!-grrrrrr [~libertad@0001866c.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:44<Jobbe>I'm trying to do a full disk encryption since my boot settings are stored in the bios chip
18:45<Jobbe>I have a 240 and a 60 gb ssd, i put an encrypted partition on both, and put lvm on top of it
18:45-!-sergio-br2 [~sergio@201.83.86.248] has joined #debian
18:45<Jobbe>I didn't make a /boot partition
18:46<Jobbe>and now debian-installer complains "you should go back and setup a /boot partition"
18:46<Jobbe>is there any way to skip that ?
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18:52<Jobbe>ah
18:52<Jobbe>after the partition menu i simply unmounted the /target/boot partition and proceeded
18:52<Jobbe>gonna fix the lvm and filesystem later :)
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19:41<josue>Hola
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21:00<neiljp>if I install the firmware for iwlwifi for the latest kernel, will that work with the older kernel too? (the older package doesn't seem to work with the backported 4.3.0 kernel)
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21:07<twb>I bet the firmware blob itself doesn't change much
21:07<twb>And the kernel driver just passes it straight on to the hardware
21:07<twb>(Just guessing, though.)
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21:13<alumno>alguien sabe porque los archivos aparecen con error de descarga
21:13<twb>!es
21:13<dpkg>Este canal es de soporte técnico en Inglés para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en Español, puede ingresar en #debian-es tecleando /join #debian-es en la línea de chat.
21:13<alumno>#debian-es
21:13<twb>alumno: /join #debian-es
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21:45<Arcade>can I ask does debian support the use of using apt-get in enabling and disabling repos or do I have to edit it manually to do so
21:46<twb>the latter
21:46<twb>some third-party packages like opera and chrome will install their own repos into sources.list.d, but they're weird
21:47-!-sergio-br2 [~sergio@201.83.86.248] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:47<Arcade>ok so editing them k. Yum only came out recently with a command in doing it just thought I ask thank you
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21:59<JohnMH>Arcade: When you mention the Yum command to enable repos, which command do you have in mind?
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22:09<Arcade>JohnMH, something like: dnf config-manager --set-enabled repositoryname
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22:10<Arcade>dnf config-manager --set-disabled repositoryname
22:11<Arcade>it will toggle the repo on/off using a comment I think
22:11<twb>uh this is #debian not #fedora
22:11<Arcade>yup
22:11<twb>oh I misread you :-)
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22:12<Arcade>was answering JohnMH question. no problem twb
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22:16<Asharas>Hi guys, I have a trouble with services starting sequence in jessie
22:16*twb is not at all surprised
22:17<Asharas>I'm trying to deploy a wifi access point with hostapd, isc-dhcp-server as dhcp and a tor service
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22:17<kewiha>Bad things are happening, oh god
22:17<Asharas>problem is, dhcpd starts after dhcpcd, then dhcpd encounters error because wlan0 static ip is not set
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22:18<kewiha>My Debian home server runs off a USB stick with a pair of HDDs in a ZFS mirror
22:18<kewiha>USB stick is dying suddenly
22:18<twb>Asharas: you are using a dhcp client and dhcp server on the same host?
22:19<Asharas>dhcp client is for eth0
22:19<twb>kewiha: this is why you need to make backups of that USB key -- or preferably, build it as a read-only debian live system
22:19<Asharas>dhcp server is for wlan0
22:19<twb>Asharas: are you aware dhcpcd was removed from debian after wheezy
22:19<kewiha>I've got /etc, anything else I should grab?
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22:20<twb>kewiha: /var/lib/dpkg/<something>, which is the list of what's installed
22:21<kewiha>Thank you! Anything else?
22:21<Asharas>twb, I'm running raspbian, may be a bit different, but I remember people telling me to use dhcpcd instead of /etc/network/interfaces
22:21<twb>I cannot support raspbian, sorry.
22:22<twb>kewiha: if I were you, I would grab absolutely everything
22:22<twb>kewiha: you have a whole huge ZFS pool sitting there, back up the whole USB fs to it
22:23<kewiha>How? I get i/o errors constantly. cp should work I guess. I'm dumping the zfs stuff to a 2TB external as a precaution, is that unecessary?
22:23<twb>kewiha: gddrescue?
22:24<twb>I don't know why a dead USB would kill the zfs pool
22:24<Asharas>twb, debian and raspbian are almost the same system
22:24<twb>Asharas: doesn't matter.
22:24<twb>!raspbian
22:24<dpkg>Raspbian is a distribution <based on Debian> made specifically for the <Raspberry Pi>. Raspbian is not Debian and it is not supported in #debian. Please use #raspbian on irc.freenode.net for support. http://www.raspbian.org/
22:24<kewiha>more like corrupt parts I guess
22:27<teatime>does anyonw know if there's actually any reason to use raspbian over debian anymore?
22:27<kewiha>Having a Raspberry pi? There's little proprietary bits with each of those boards, I'd stick with whatever the manufacturer points to
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22:29<twb>kewiha: more than a little
22:29<twb>kewiha: it's broadcom so everything is terrible
22:30<kewiha>My only complaint with my Model B is that it doesn't keep time well, but ran it as a server for a few years so it was begging for a clean install
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22:30<blast007>except for the parts they're open-sourcing gradually
22:31<kewiha>With the right ghetto patches, even Broadcom and Realtek stuff works. Look at Realtek drivers on Windows vs not Windows. If they actually bother to work on the software, it works great in spite of odd errata
22:31<teatime>I thought the primary impetus for creating raspbian was to compile things for hard-float abi
22:31<teatime>which is now a debian arch
22:31<twb>kewiha: you mean rtl81xx NICs?
22:32<kewiha>Ya, I've had orders of magnitude less problems with them under Windows, although I've had orders of magnitude more time using Windows
22:33<twb>IME they Just Work with stock DFSG kernel
22:33<kewiha>On BSD like Freenas and PFSense they cause brain tumors
22:33<twb>But I only have about 800 of them deployed :P
22:34<twb>I have not tried them with BSD, only Linux
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22:35<kewiha_>SATA SSD suggestions for a server?
22:35<twb>kewiha_: no, I would use the NVMe stuff
22:36-!-KOJIbKA [~nikobit@87.251.138.62] has joined #debian
22:36<kewiha_>Just for the reliability compared to the USB stick that just died
22:36<kewiha_>It's idle 99% of the time, I just need something that will blow up far less than a single USB stick
22:37<twb>Then I doubt it matters what make & model you get :P
22:37<twb>http://sprunge.us/SYMd is how I do it
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22:38<kewiha_>What on earth is that? Live Read only?
22:38<twb>Yeah it spits out a kernel & ramdisk & rootfs squashfs, and you put them on PXE or USB and then you're done
22:38<twb>Because it's only reading from the USB key, the key won't die
22:38<twb>If you do a stock install on the USB key, it writes a bunch of crap all the time, like /var/log
22:39<kewiha_>If I'm installing applications and updating all the time, what then?
22:39<twb>I might have used an SSD but I ran out of SATA headers
22:39<twb>kewiha_: ah, then you can't do it the live way :-)
22:39<twb>kewiha_: sorry I assumed this was just a big NAS
22:41<kewiha_>Fair assumption. I'm milking the Core i3 in it, it makes a great game server. I have 6 ports, 2 taken by a 3TB Mirror. It's half full, with regular backups and such on it. Right now 3TB drives are literally half the cost of anything bigger where I am, but I don't see myself needing more than 6TB (Raid10). Have you tried those LSI raid cards you can flash to IT mode like the FreeNas guys love?
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22:42<twb>I always just use passthrough HBAs, and linux RAID
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22:42<twb>(or RAIDZ, in ZFS case)
22:42<kewiha_>That's what they are, they're crappy raid cards you can turn into HBA's, M1015 or something is the model, like $100 on ebay
22:43<twb>Bleh.
22:43<kewiha_>What's your experience using them in Debian?
22:44<twb>Even the first-party HP passthrough HBA I got for a g8 was only like A$40 IIRC
22:44<kewiha_>Basically, should I avoid using SATA SSD's because having to bust out a HBA for (unlikely) future expansion is undesireable?
22:44<twb>kewiha_: are you using a server case with a backplane, or are you using a generic PC tower
22:45<kewiha_>Generic tower, just the 6 sata ports on the intel controller
22:45<teatime>if not sata SSDs, then what? SAS?
22:45<teatime>PCIe?
22:45<twb>OK so you basically want to have more storage and don't have any more SATA headers on the motherboard?
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22:46<twb>teatime: the cool way to connect nvram (SSDs) these days is via PCIe, using NVMe instead of AHCI.
22:46<twb>teatime: that is, the M.2 form factor. I'm *pretty* sure that's PCIe
22:46<kewiha_>LGA1150. Keeping the 6 SATA ports for HDDs would be nice, but if it's too much of a nuisance I'll suck it up. M.2 NVMe uses PCIE 3.0 x4 if available
22:47<twb>kewiha_: I think I'd trust M.2 a lot more than an LSI expansion card
22:47<kewiha_>Not sure if my board would do NVMe, or if it would be anything less than dumb to drop that kind of cash on a boot drive
22:48<twb>A$99 Samsung 850 EVO MZ-N5E120BW 120G M.2. SSD Solid State Drive
22:48<kewiha_>The only M.2 stuff I could use afaik is the SATA variety, which is worse than a 2.5" drive for me. I was looking at those, do they last in servers?
22:48<kewiha_>850 Pro isn't hilariously expensive
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22:48<twb>Dunno about servers, but I've had the OEM Kingston M.2 in my netbook for a few years now
22:49<twb>Did your usb key only have /boot on it, or all of the root fs
22:49<kewiha_>root fs
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22:50<twb>then IMO $100 of any old disk is better than another $5 USB key that will die
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22:50<twb>And which disk is not so important, just make sure it's backed up onto the ZFS pool so you can restore it easily
22:51<kewiha_>What would you do for a home server? Plop in a SATA drive and do some sort of incremental backup to the ZFS pool? Mirrored SATA drives with backups?
22:51<twb>Just rsync -xdev / /pool/rootfs or so
22:51<twb>I'd probably linux raid1 it if I had enough sata slots
22:52<twb>Obviously the better way would be to only have /boot on the USB, and / on the pool
22:54<kewiha_>I want to use mirrored ZFS arrays, so having a single port free is useless. Do you think there's a compelling advantage to the second boot SSD?
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22:54<kewiha_>In the context of a home server, when I'm in college
22:56<twb>Hard to justify the cost
22:57<twb>Or: consider the likelihood and impact of having to recover from a dead single drive
22:57<twb>Then invest up to that much to prevent it
22:57<kewiha_>I mean, the build was $1000 to go with my $2000 gaming PC, but I'm not really in need of hardware for another few years if nothing dies. I guess one solid SSD and backups is fine, I'm really not at much of a loss with the dead USB stick, just time
22:58<twb>I would also make a recovery medium that can speak ZFS, and leave in taped inside the chassis :P
22:58<twb>(medium = DVD or USB key)
23:00<kewiha_>Good plan
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23:03<kewiha_>Which current SSD's have power loss protection? No UPS here
23:04<twb>AFAIK none
23:04<twb>Unless you mean enterprise-class equipment, which you won't have access to
23:05<twb>Wait: do you mean a battery backup unit (BBU), or do you just mean like a capacitor big enough to avoid a head crash? Because SSDs don't have heads, so if you're looking at literature for spinning rust, it doesn't apply
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23:06<kewiha_>Some SSD's have caps in them, that's what I mean
23:06<twb>OK, I didn't know that
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23:07<kewiha_>It's usually a well below a second if done right, but if you're weren't hammering the drive it can keep RAM populated until the power comes back
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23:08<twb>Yeah so you're just trying to cope with momentary power failures
23:08<twb>not like "last for ten minutes while I start the generator" :P
23:08<teatime>a UPS would be a much better investment than that 2nd boot drive
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23:08<twb>teatime: entry-level UPSs are pretty horrible tho
23:08<teatime>way better than nothing
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23:09<teatime>and you only need enough seconds to flush, sync, and shutdown.
23:09<twb>I guess. They look to start at around A$90 for 600-800VA
23:10<teatime>yeah, I was thinking like US$100
23:10<teatime>but I don't really have any idea.
23:11<kewiha_>I work at a repair shop where we do SMB stuff regularly, any used UPS traits that would be better than a retail $100 affair?
23:11<kewiha_>That I could get used for <$150ish
23:11<teatime>I'm thinking not without it probably being much larger and heavier.
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23:12<teatime>and replacement batteries are expensive too.
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23:15<twb>kewiha_: used UPS needs new battery or it's useless, and a new battery is nearly as expensive
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---Logclosed Thu Mar 03 00:00:01 2016