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#debian IRC Logs for 2016-06-23

---Logopened Thu Jun 23 00:00:25 2016
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00:51<cooldharma06>hi all
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01:17<cooldharma06>i am facing the folloeing error while taking snapshot of my virtual machine
01:18<cooldharma06>module ehci-orion not found in modules.dep
01:18<cooldharma06>any suggestions
01:19<kingsley>I'd search Google's indices.
01:19<cooldharma06>i need some solution tried google but unable to get solution dont know the issue also
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01:25<jm_>that's not with jessie is it?
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01:30<jm_>ahh it is, it's modprobe from busybox
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01:33<cooldharma06>jm_ any suggestion related to that error
01:34<jm_>cooldharma06: which architecture is this on?
01:34<jm_>and is it jessie?
01:35<cooldharma06>its wheezy
01:37<cooldharma06>jm_ http://pasteboard.co/1TfWvgj7.png
01:37<cooldharma06>this the error i am facing while create vm from snapshot
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01:38<jm_>cooldharma06: and my other question?
01:39<jm_>your error is about not being able to find /dev/vda1, not about ehci-orion thing
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01:41<awwal>debian
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02:13<cooldharma06>is there anyway to check the filesystem error in that image
02:13<cooldharma06>jm_ ^^^
02:13<nightspeed>有说中文的吗?
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02:14<nightspeed>anybody speak chinese?
02:14<awwal>!chinese
02:14<dpkg>如果您想要以中文得到 Debian 相關的協助,請加入 irc.debian.org 或 irc.oftc.net 上的 #dot 頻道,連線與加入頻道的方法請參閱 IRC 程式之相關說明,或於網路上搜尋。謝謝您的合作!
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02:14<jm_>cooldharma06: you have the shell, you can inspect it there
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02:15<cooldharma06>if you are free means can u give suggestion becoz i stucked and also i dont know wat to do further
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02:16<jm_>look at what you see in /sys/block or what blkid shows
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02:19<cooldharma06>it showing -> http://pasteboard.co/1TiGYaNz.png
02:19<cooldharma06>but in my virtualmachine disk format is vda
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02:20<cooldharma06>jm_ ^^^
02:20<jm_>well it's not detecting any vda devices, you'll need to investigate why
02:22<cooldharma06>is there any option to load the vda disk, also i think inside the disk vda is there
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02:27<cooldharma06>jm_ its got worked i changed in grub instead of vda i gave sda
02:27<jm_>cooldharma06: I checked and for me I get sda with vbox
02:27<cooldharma06>for root
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02:29<cooldharma06>i think in my image or grub it configured as vda but inside filesystem is vda
02:29<cooldharma06>jm_ thanks for your suggestion dude
02:30<jm_>that's strange, it should be the same in grub and in fstab
02:30<jm_>and no problem, I didn't do anything anyway
02:31<cooldharma06>jm_ u only told about the missing filesystem dude and also sys/block.
02:31<cooldharma06>anyway thanks.. :)
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02:58<Hazi>lkkkkk
02:59<Hazi>aus kairo
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02:59<Hazi>meine amtssprache ist arabisch und ägyptisch
03:00<Hazi>bß8 _/78 -üpöööö
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03:41<prem>how can i schedule a process so that i runs after ne hour i logged in
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03:41<prem>with cron i can only hardcode time., but how to say ., after one/ two hour of login?
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03:51<spwhitton>prem: anacron
03:52<dtw>prem, systemd's timer's have OnBootSec property.
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03:53<dtw>prem, See: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Systemd/Timers#Monotonic_timer
03:57<rajendra>how to send log to email and append it to the backup file.. for example
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03:57<musca>prem: don't focus on cron as the final solution. E.g. kalarm (part of KDE) has a command line interface to create an alarm that executes a command.
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03:58<rajendra>$(which sendmail) myemail@gmail.com < /path/to/some.log && mv /path/to/some.log /path/to/some-$(date +"%Y-%m-%d").log
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03:58<rajendra>how to copy the content of one file and append it to another file?
03:59<dtw>cat one-file.txt >>another-file.txt
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04:01<musca>rajendra: look at the "tee" command
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04:03<rajendra>musca, is that built in
04:04<musca>~$ builtin tee
04:04<musca>bash: builtin: tee: not a shell builtin
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04:09<qaz>Is net install a better option for someone with a older computer?
04:09<rajendra>dtw, single > or double?
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04:11<duclicsic>rajendra: > overwrites, >> appends.
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04:12<jm_>qaz: older computer doesn't matter much, your connectivity during installation phase does
04:12<rajendra>duclicsic, cool.. that perfectly makes sense
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04:17<qaz>How do you exit X?
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04:19<jm_>look for logout in menus or somesuch
04:19<Anarka>ctrl + alt + del
04:20<jm_>that's the last option too
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04:21<dtw>Ctrl + Shift + Backspace
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04:22<dtw>Ctrl + Alt + Backspace (i mean)
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04:29<pedro>how cam i uninstall dummy sound system?
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04:36<SynrGy>why?
04:37<qaz>is firefox in the debian respos?
04:37<jm_>yes
04:37<SynrGy>,v firefox
04:37<judd>Package: firefox on amd64 -- jessie-backports/firefox-release: 47.0-1~bpo80+1; sid: 47.0-1; experimental: 48.0~b1-1
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04:38<pedro>how can i get to my sound settings?
04:38<qaz>go to system settings
04:39<qaz>then go to hardware
04:39<pedro>multimedia?
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04:57<k>1
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05:16<prem>
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05:25<rajendra>how to send email with attachment.. i need a single line command
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05:25<pedro>can anyone help me updating from wheezy to jessie?
05:26<pedro>upgrading
05:26<derka>what do you need pedro ?
05:27<pedro>id like a repo
05:27<pedro>to upgrade to jessie
05:27<derka>you have to modify your /etc/apt/sources.list
05:27<pedro>to find out if my pc works better afterwards
05:27<derka>wait
05:27<pedro>but i need an address
05:27<Anarka>repo is the same as you probably use now, just copy one of the existing sources and replace wheezy with jessie
05:28<derka>deb-src http://httpredir.debian.org/debian jessie main
05:28<derka>deb http://httpredir.debian.org/debian jessie-updates main
05:28<derka>deb-src http://httpredir.debian.org/debian jessie-updates main
05:28<derka>deb http://security.debian.org/ jessie/updates main
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05:28<derka>sry
05:28<jm_>rajendra: mutt can do that
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05:29<pedro>derka, can you just give the tags so i can type them in the terminal?
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05:30<pedro>derka: and what do i do to the old addresses?
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05:35<dreamy_>quit
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05:36<jm_>comment them out, change them for jessie (I will be away for a while now)
05:36<jm_>that should be "or change"
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05:57<infinity0>anyone here got an APC UPS
05:57<infinity0>i need to replace the battery but the official ones are shit expensive
05:57<infinity0>not sure if unofficial ones won't explode, though
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06:13<troll>hello
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06:14<troll>hei Aantenna
06:15<Aantenna>troll, hi.
06:15<troll>here speak english
06:15<Aantenna>yes. speak english.
06:16<troll>ok
06:16<rajendra>how to send attachment in email using mail command
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06:17<Aantenna>rajendra, I'm sure there's an entry in "man mail" that could be of help.
06:17<Aantenna>or something you can check online
06:17<rajendra>mail 2.2 -A is not working
06:17<Aantenna>.did you diagnose why?
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06:18<rajendra>echo "Exception occured in Website." | $(which mail) -A /var/www/log/exception.log -s "Exception Report" myemail@gmail.com
06:18<rajendra>this works in mail 2.99
06:19<rajendra>so wondering how you guys are sending attachment in mail 2.2
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06:19<troll>how to create a site irc
06:19<troll>Apri in Google Traduttore
06:19<troll>Google Traduttore
06:19<troll>https://translate.google.it/?hl=it
06:19<troll>Il servizio gratuito di Google traduce all'istante parole, frasi e pagine web tra l'italiano e più di 100 altre lingue.
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06:23<rajendra>Aantenna, any idea
06:23<Aantenna>rajendra, no, I'm sorry.
06:23<Aantenna>Maybe try asking on the "mail" mailing lists
06:24<Aantenna>and someone might know why the versioning functionality differs.
06:24<Aantenna>from 2.2 to 2.99
06:24<Aantenna>on the same command.
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06:35<dreamy_>!wheezy->jessie
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06:36<jm_>try /msg dpkg wheezy->jessie
06:36<dreamy_>im getting there
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06:40<dreamy_>the bot just says to replace the dist name in the sources file
06:41<dreamy_>In /etc/apt/sources.list,
06:41<dreamy_>+change "wheezy" to "jessie".
06:42<dreamy_>anyone answering?
06:43<jm_>it also tells you to read release notes
06:43<duclicsic>you've not actually asked a question...
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06:54<rajendra>how to check manual of mail but of specific version
06:54<rajendra>man mail 2.2 ?
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06:58<jm_>https://manpages.debian.org/ can show man pages for several versions of debian
06:59<dreamy_>to be honest with you guys all i want is a tablature reader like tuxguitar to study some bob marley songs
07:00<dreamy_>i thought that with debian 8 my pc could work better
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07:07<dreamy_>does anyone nows bitchx?
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07:08<musca>!bitchx
07:08<dpkg>BitchX is an old and unmaintained <IRC> client built on epic and ircII. It was abandoned by its upstream, has known security issues and was removed from Debian post-Etch to resolve bug #451373. Ask me about <irssi>, <xchat>, <konversation>, <weechat> for alternatives. To ignore BitchX quit messages in irssi, ask me about <literal bitchxignore>.
07:09<musca>Uhm, we better reference hexchat instead of xchat
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07:32<rajendra> how to check which mail program is your server using to send email?
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08:12<ArwadSXCode>Hello guys
08:12<ArwadSXCode>Anyone ON ?
08:12<ArwadSXCode>can somebody help me with something ?
08:13<duclicsic>!ask
08:13<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
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08:15<ArwadSXCode>OK got it, Thank you dpkg
08:16<duclicsic>dpkg is a bot
08:16<dpkg>wish i knew, duclicsic
08:16<ArwadSXCode>lol :(
08:16<ArwadSXCode>i really noob
08:16<ArwadSXCode>I'm*
08:16<ArwadSXCode>how can i make beep sound when somebody sends something ?
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08:18<duclicsic>ArwadSXCode: you're going to have to explain what you mean in a lot more detail than that?
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08:18<duclicsic>right
08:18<duclicsic>beep
08:18<musca>BEEP!
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08:21<grove>ArwadSXCode: Do you mean when you get a new e-mail or is it some other kind of sending you're thinking of?
08:22<grove>Oh, he left
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08:38<dreamy_>offtopic, what happ to bitchX ?
08:39<dreamy_>whats dummy? can anyone please tell me ?
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08:45<somiaj>dreamy_: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=451373
08:45<judd>Bug http://bugs.debian.org/451373 in ftp.debian.org (closed): «RM: ircii-pana -- RoQA; security issues, abandoned upstream, unmainted»; severity: normal; opened: 2007-11-15; last modified: 2007-12-22.
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08:48<sebamt>Hey, can someone explain me the difference between a classical distro ISO and a debootstrap file, if there's any ? If there isn't, should I be able to debootstrap an ISO, once mounted ?
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09:12<musca>sebamt: hold on, i have it running
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09:16<musca>sebamt: I: Base system installed successfully.
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09:20<musca>sebamt: okay, i used the multiarch netinstaller image:
09:20<musca> ~# mount -o loop debian-8.0.0-amd64-i386-netinst.iso /mnt
09:20<musca> ~# debootstrap --no-check-gpg --arch amd64 jessie /path/to/targetdir file:///mnt/
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09:22<sebamt>I gte that error E: Failed getting release file file:///debianmnt/dists/jessie/Release
09:22<sebamt>Well I'm doing it with a debian iso but I don't think it should make that difference
09:22<musca>which image do you use?
09:23<sebamt>Oh actually it's the same as you, didn't see the previous message sorry
09:23<sebamt>debian-8.5.0-amd64-netinst.iso
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09:23<sebamt>well quite the same
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09:27<musca>sebamt: does the path ./dists/jessie/Release exist in your mounpoint?
09:28-!-mode/#debian [+l 784] by debhelper
09:28<musca>check for typos in your TARGET and MIRROR parameter
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09:38<cmarzullo>in systemd isn't there a way to tell how many times you've booted? My google-fu is failing me.
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09:41<cmarzullo>found it journalctl --list-boots| wc -l
09:42<cmarzullo>meh perhaps it's not what I want.
09:42<Anarka>shows only 1 boot on mine...
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09:43<Anarka>Specifying boot ID has no effect, no persistent journal was found
09:43<Anarka>maybe because of that
09:43<sebamt>I (by mistake) continued the discussion in pm with musca who helped me solve the problem, so FYI, debootstrap works with ISOs once mounted :)
09:44<musca>:)
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09:44<towo^work>cmarzullo, maybe you want tuptime
09:45<cmarzullo>Thanks Anarka co-worker also pointed out about the persistent
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09:45<cmarzullo>thanks towo^work
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09:46<cmarzullo>I was looking for examples of making a unit file that runs only when the sytem first boots. Was thinking trying to find a guard checking if this was the first time that host booted.
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09:57<sebamt>musca: I'm back ! Actually it doesn't work with any other folders than /mnt, how can you explain that ?
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10:00<musca>sebamt: hmm, where is your mountpoint located? try ls -ld
10:00<sebamt>musca: I tried with /tmp/minitest
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10:07<sebamt>musca: It worked now.... Damn end of the day, I think I,m not seeing well anymore...Sorry for bothering
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10:07<musca>no worries :)
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10:27<sebamt>musca: I knew I wasn't crazy haha ! So it works with the debian 8.5.0 image, but my initial goal was to use my mini.iso found here http://cdimage.debian.org/debian/dists/stable/main/installer-amd64/current/images/netboot/mini.iso
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10:28<sebamt>musca: Someone on IRC led me to that and it's a very stripped down Debian with only kernel and ramdisk (I'm just repeating here). i like it but since I want it to be on a SD card for a headless computer, it is very slow to install, that's why I wanted to use debootstrap
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10:31<musca>well, debootstrap does install a base system and needs some debian packages to do its job.
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10:34<sebamt>But when I debootstrap with a classical Debian image, I get tons of "useless" packages to me, since it's a headless computer that has pretty specific functions. I know that debootstrap has an option to remove packages, but it'll take forever to to it by hand, I think I'd p[refer to start from scratch. Solution ?
10:34<sebamt>(I know I can use Arch Linux if I really want to go from scratch, but I haven't had any success with it for now)
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10:36<somiaj>sebamt: debootstrap is about as minimial of a system as you'll get by default with out manually taking out stuff you don't want.
10:36<somiaj>!standard
10:36<dpkg>i guess standard task is a "task" that should be installed on all machines during the installer stage. It installs packages that are important, required and standard (i.e. "aptitude install ~pstandard ~prequired ~pimportant"). Packages in the <essential> set are always installed. Also ask me about <tasksel>.
10:36<somiaj>sebamt: in debian, packages of standard priority or higher should be installed (though I do agree not all of them get used by everyone) and debootstrap gives a smaller set of packages than that.
10:38-!-mode/#debian [+l 784] by debhelper
10:40<sebamt>somiaj: I also worked a bit with voyage Linux that is about 80Mb (nothing compared to the 500Mb+ with Debian) so it looks even more 'naked' than Debian. Could I achieve that or I will really need the standard packages to have a working system ?
10:41<somiaj>sebamt: There are ones there that can be removed safely, recall this is always up for debate and what gets those priority are package that some will need. Debian wants its minimial installs to have a core set of packages people would expect that may not be needed by everyone
10:42<somiaj>sebamt: https://wiki.debian.org/Embedded_Debian -- I'm unsure if something like Embedian would be more what you are looking for.
10:42<sebamt>somiaj: So from there I can remove packages at my own risk till it stops working? :)
10:43<sebamt>somiaj: Last question, when I use debootstrap, do I get the 'udeb' or the normal version of packages ?
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10:43<somiaj>sebamt: yup, you can experminet all you want. Note important and required probably souldn't be removed, but there are some standard packages I don't use. So you might be able to get a little less space. Unsure if you can get down to 80Megs or not though.
10:43<somiaj>sebamt: normal version, udeb are just packages for the installer to load (afiak)
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10:44<musca>I just googled this gem: debootstrap --variant=minbase
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10:44<sebamt>soniaj: Then is there a way to lighten the packages by removing documentation for example ? That's what the udebs are about, if I understood right ?
10:45<somiaj>musca: oh nice
10:46<somiaj>sebamt: http://d-i.alioth.debian.org/doc/internals/ch03.html
10:46<sebamt>musca: I found that already, but it just saved me around 70Mbs if I remember well. Maybe not the exact figure, but I was quite disappointed
10:47<somiaj>sebamt: "The relaxed policy requirements are one of the reasons that udebs should not be installed on a normal system. The other reason being that it just doesn't make sense and it's likely to break things.
10:48<sebamt>somiaj: Ok, I won't use udeb then :D
10:48<ansgar>sebamt: A regular install without the "standard" task is not 500+M?
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10:50<sebamt>ansgar: with the minbase option you mean ? I can run the debootstrap once again if you want, I deleted the folder
10:50<musca>sebamt: almost done here
10:50<ansgar>sebamt: No, just "debootstrap" without any variant.
10:51<musca>255M /data/jessie
10:51<musca>170M /data/minbase
10:51<sebamt>ansgar: Yes it is more than 500M. If I remember well it was around 550M, but once again my memory fades away fast :p
10:51<ansgar>For unstable that install 266M of which 38M+56M are the Packages indices (/var/lib/apt/lists) and downloaded packages (/var/cache/apt/packages).
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10:52<ansgar>And anohter 40M is /usr/share/locale.
10:52<sebamt>musca: Is it still with 8.0 ?
10:52<ansgar>It misses kernel and bootloader though.
10:53<musca>that's what i get after the first step with: debootstrap --no-check-gpg --variant=minbase jessie /data/minbase file:///mnt/
10:54<ansgar>*brr* --no-check-gpg
10:54<musca>ansgar: there is no Release.gpg on my multiarch netinstall.iso
10:55<sebamt>I got 257M with 8.5, made with the ISO as the start point. I think I got way bigger folders when it was downloading debootstrap files from the server
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10:57<ansgar>With --variant=minbase for unstable it is 109M after removing /var/lib/apt/lists and /var/cache/apt/archives
10:57<ansgar>Or which 30M+ is usr/share/locale again.
10:57<sebamt>That starts getting interesting !
10:58<ansgar>w/o usr/share/locale, usr/share/man and usr/share/doc it is 62M. But that doesn't include a kernel, bootloader or init system.
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11:03<sebamt>Gotta go, thank you very much for your help !
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12:06<HallerL>Is there a advantage by installing thunderbird/icedove-plugins through the debian package management? does it not add an enormous costs (effort & time) to jmaintain plugins that are already in the Mozilla reposß
12:06<HallerL>?
12:09<Nemoder>it does help to ensure compatibility regardless of what upstream does
12:09<somiaj>HallerL: the version of the plugin will be known to work with the version of icedove provided by debian. Also debian will provide security patches for the plugin if needed via apt-get update like normal security updates (advantages to useing the package from debian)
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12:49<alexx>ola
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13:32<danxor>how do I quickly return to desktop without closing any applications on gnome ? I tried the usual alt+ctrl+d but it doesn't seem to work
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13:38<grawity>there's no default shortcut for that
13:39<grawity>gsettings set org.gnome.desktop.wm.keybindings show-desktop "['<Super>d']" -- or "['<Primary><Alt>d']"
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13:43<danxor>cool, thanks a lot!
13:44<danxor>it's working like a charm
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13:51<grawity>it's also settable via Settings → Keyboard → Navigation
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14:00<mekeor>i plugged in headphones and then, as they didnt work, i plugged them out again. but now, afterwards, my sound doesnt work anymore at all. i rebooted. i checked alsamixer. i play with settings... idk.
14:01<mekeor>it's notebook, i got my integrated speakers to work for a while. but now that i played around with settings, even those dont work anymore.
14:01-!-stin [~oftc-webi@host86-146-33-54.range86-146.btcentralplus.com] has joined #debian
14:02<stin>Hello?
14:02<stin>Anyone here??? o_O
14:03<blast007>yes
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14:03<stin>Thank goodness lol
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14:03<stin>Is this the Debian support room?
14:03<blast007>stin: do you have a Debian support question?
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14:04<stin>Yes... I just installed 8.4, but I'm getting a CLI, no GUI. There was no option to select one (I only get SSH Server and 'laptop' when I run tasksel) - Did I pick one of the wrong images?
14:05<stin>...So many to choose from, and only a few actally work lol
14:05<stin>*actually
14:05<blast007>what ISO did you use? the netinst?
14:06<stin>Well, I think so, Ihave a net connection and everything, but it's like nos cripts are firing-off
14:06<stin>*no scripts
14:06<stin>apt-get install gnome....... results in an error (package not found)
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14:07<blast007>perhaps you didn't choose to use a network mirror during the install
14:07<blast007>!jessie sources.list
14:07<dpkg>A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for Debian 8 "Jessie" has three lines: "deb http://httpredir.debian.org/debian/ jessie main" "deb http://security.debian.org/ jessie/updates main" "deb http://httpredir.debian.org/debian/ jessie-updates main". Be sure to run «aptitude update» after editing sources.list. Also see <deb-src> <contrib> <non-free> <jessie/updates> <jessie-updates> <mirrors> and "man sources.list".
14:07<stin>it didn't make it obvious - I presumed it would use it's default repos?
14:08-!-mode/#debian [+l 790] by debhelper
14:08<blast007>Edit your /etc/apt/sources.list and add those three lines (without the quotes), then run 'apt-get update' as root
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14:08<stin>K........
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14:08<jmlongo>and maybe try to install task-gnome-desktop afterwards :)
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14:10<stin>Well, TBH, if I'm going to need to do this everytime I use these CDs...... I need an image that has everything on for 32/64-bit arch... Do you know which file it is?? (The language on the site is confusing for me)
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14:10<stin>I downloaded a load of images, tho
14:11<stin>Is there a list of filenames and the respective image's contents/packages/summary?
14:11-!-neiljp [~Neil@static-50-53-101-50.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:12<jmlongo>I have installed Debian many times with this one:
14:12<jmlongo>https://www.debian.org/CD/netinst/
14:12-!-mortalius [~mortalius@AAmiens-654-1-37-204.w92-155.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #debian
14:13<blast007>stin: there are various list-* directories on the download site that list the packages on each ISO. For instance, see the ones for 8.5.0 at the bottom here: http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/8.5.0/amd64/
14:13<stin>There seems to gbe a lot of uncertainty regarding which image should be used - Is there a siple list I can look at without reading an encyclopedia lol
14:14<jmlongo>at the end of the installation it should ask what tasks you want (printserver, webserver, fileserver, etc..) among which it is the desktop enviromen)
14:14<jmlongo>*environment
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14:14<stin>Is there a file on the CD which tells me the image version?
14:14<blast007>stin: if you have a network connection during the install and aren't installing a bunch a systems, the netinst is fine
14:14<blast007>bunch of*
14:15-!-grrrrrr [~libertad@0001866c.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:15<stin>*Sighs* Thats what i tried... do I NEED to select a mirror on install?
14:15<blast007>yeah, or else you will only get a very basic CLI install
14:16<stin>I will be installing oter systems with teh CD, so the easier teh better all round I reckon :)
14:16<stin>ffs
14:16<blast007>(and then you'd have to add mirrors later to install stuff)
14:16<stin>like a core install?
14:16<stin>*needs a cig*
14:16<blast007>so if your question is "do I have to reinstall now?", the answer is no
14:16<blast007>you can just add the default mirrors and install other packages
14:17<stin>No, but I do have to re-download the correct image and reburn tat to a disk to use in future... Not easy without an existing net connection, I need a finished disk, complete ith desktop GUI selection...
14:17<stin>*that
14:18<blast007>I think DVD1 is enough for a Gnome install, and maybe Cinnamon
14:18<blast007>(without needing network during the install)
14:18<stin>My question is this... Which image do I download to give me a multi-arch installer with selection of GUIs at install?
14:18<stin>Not enough information to choose a disk on the site, imho
14:19<blast007>they all offer a selection of GUIs
14:19<stin>Well... apparently no this one lol
14:19<blast007>it would have if you had a working network connection and told it to use a network mirror
14:19<stin>*not
14:20<stin>Do any of the other images come with a default list of sources?
14:21<musca>!hdo
14:21<dpkg>To have <APT> automatically select a mirror close to you, use the Geo-IP redirector in your sources.list "deb http://httpredir.debian.org/debian/ jessie main". See http://httpredir.debian.org/ for more information. The redirector uses HTTP 302 redirects not DNS to serve content so is safe to use with Google DNS. See also <which httpredir.debian.org>. This service is identical to http.debian.net.
14:22<musca>stin: the httpredirector is also available in the list
14:22<blast007>stin: they.. all do...
14:23<stin>I don't think I'm following the convo tbh (lots of notifications cluttering up the chat)
14:24<blast007>perhaps reading the install guide would help?
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14:24<blast007>!ig
14:24<dpkg>The Installation Guide for Debian 8 "Jessie" can be found at https://www.debian.org/releases/jessie/installmanual . See also <errata>, <jessie release notes>.
14:25<blast007>I use the netinst ISO all the time, and it does prompt if you want to use a network mirror (and I believe even defaults to yes) during the install, if you have a working network connection
14:26-!-barbanegra [~libertad@0001866c.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:26<musca>some network cards do need firmware blobs though
14:26<musca>!firmware image
14:26<dpkg>Unofficial <netinst> images - containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages - for installing Debian 8 "Jessie" are available from http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/ . See also <install guide>.
14:27<stin>I've tried reading the install guide, the layout is confusing, it's not explicit enough for me, that's why I decided to go back to basics - Ask someone who knows. ;)
14:27<jmlongo>+1 to what blast007 said
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14:29<stin>So it's a package repo server (a network mirror, that's a switch reconfig isn't it? lol)
14:29-!-tremon [~aschuring@53541C2B.cm-6-5a.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #debian
14:29<stin>the terminology seems illogical to me lol
14:30-!-lpalgarvio [~lpalgarvi@vfpt-gw.vodafone.pt] has joined #debian
14:30<stin>omg, can I turn off these damned status updates in the IRC room?
14:31<stin>im trying to read teh conversation and it keeps bloody jumping with server spam
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14:32-!-tuxampol [~Mylin@aftr-88-217-180-33.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
14:33<dtw>stin, find some ignore option or command on you irc client. Probably you want to ignore join/part/quit messages.
14:33<musca>stin: you are using the web interface?
14:34<stin>I'll try - I am in a browser
14:34<stin>I think that's it - This shit aint Asperger's friendly lol
14:35<stin>anyhoo... I am trying to get to the bottom of which CD image I need to get a working GUI installed on prospective custoers' PCs and laptops
14:35<stin>*customer's
14:35-!-Jon9012 [~jonathan@2605:e000:870d:ba00:ec2f:2527:2cb:8433] has joined #debian
14:36<stin>*brandishes fist at join message*
14:36<musca>stin: which desktop do you want to install?
14:36<retrospectacus>will they have Internet available during installation?
14:37<stin>Anyting but unity or KDE (had issues with that before eurgh) , Cinnamon, Gnome, E17... They don't make their names known, really, but any nice desktop environment... Something I can run Compiz over
14:38<stin>BTW, is debian fouled by systemd?
14:38-!-user [~user@175.32.6.126] has joined #debian
14:38<stin>retrospectacus Not guaranteed to, no.
14:39-!-user is now known as Guest600
14:39<stin>It can't rely on one, put it that way
14:39<retrospectacus>DVD1 should do it, or any of the DE-specific installers. Compiz is no longer available. Systemd is there but you won't notice it
14:40<stin>DVD1?
14:40<stin>DE?
14:40<retrospectacus>desktop env.
14:40-!-edgrey [~edgrey@178.204.195.217] has joined #debian
14:40<stin>Ah, does this systemd thang mean I need to look at Devuan?
14:41<stin>Inspirational name, DVD1 lol
14:41<retrospectacus>http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/8.5.0/amd64/iso-dvd/
14:42<retrospectacus>if you really think something is wrong with systemd you can try to avoid it, or you can just install debian and start doing fun things
14:42-!-jmux [~jmux@lhm246.muenchen.de] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
14:43<stin>It's the way that the thing is split up and broken down and the guys running the site don't seem to differentiate in an obvious way.
14:44<stin>I'll check out Devuan's site :) - Also, no systemd :(
14:44<retrospectacus>can you elaborate on how this manifests into an actual problem?
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14:45<stin>If you had to travel through an unknown village, the map you would need would need to make sense... That's the problem - Inefficient communication, but I see it everywhere. Strict context helps to minimise confusion.
14:46<retrospectacus>can you elaborate on how this manifests into an actual problem?
14:46<retrospectacus>btw it is technically possible to install debian stable without systemd, though I haven't seen anyone bother. https://wiki.debian.org/systemd#Installing_without_systemd and probably something in the install guide.
14:47<stin>Like programming or NLP, easey to follow, but hard to learn as it involves learning good habits and geting over established bad ones :)
14:48<stin>*easy
14:48<stin>*getting
14:48<stin>retro, I did. A problem that only shows it's head 1% of the time is still a problem. :)
14:48-!-GHJGHJJHG [~daniel@pool-100-37-63-49.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #debian
14:49<blast007>stin: if you have a working network connection during the install, any of the install ISOs (the first ISO of each set) can install any of the desktop environments - some will just come bundled with some/all of the necessary packages
14:50<stin>It says that CD/DVD/BD all contain the same packages... How? A CD is only 800MB max, a DVD Is 9.6, a BD even more... It's confusing lol
14:50<blast007>where do you see that?
14:51-!-zlatan [~Zlatan@0001a3a0.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
14:51<stin>"Which of the numerous images should I download? Do I need all of them? No. First, of course you only need to download CD or DVD or BD images - the three types of images contain the same packages."
14:51<stin>https://www.debian.org/CD/faq/#which-cd
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14:52<retrospectacus>if you click some links you will discover that there are many more CDs than DVDs, etc.
14:52<blast007>yeah, it's saying the full set of CDs contain same packages as the full set of DVDs, and the full set of BD
14:52<stin>Set?
14:52<stin>Ah, hence DVD1 - This is all very confusing lol
14:52<blast007>it's really not...
14:53-!-EggBanjo [~EggBanjo@109.202.107.10] has joined #debian
14:53<musca>well, nobody needs the full set
14:53<stin>I can only see links for individual ISOs, nothign about disk/DVD 1 or 2 O_o
14:53-!-JanC_ [~janc@ip-213-49-245-157.dsl.scarlet.be] has joined #debian
14:54<stin>Am I goin mad? lol
14:54<stin>Am I on the correct page? - https://www.debian.org/distrib/netinst
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14:54<blast007>that's the netinst, not the full CD set
14:55<blast007>netinst is where you install the majority of the software from the Internet
14:55<stin>I clicked on the link on the debian site, though :S
14:55<stin>wtf
14:55<stin>why would it send me there instea of a selction list? O_o
14:55<stin>*selection
14:55<blast007>well why wouldn't it be linked from the Debian site? it's Debian
14:56-!-Lordz [~Adium@186.215.116.176] has joined #debian
14:56<blast007>plus, the 'Getting Debian' link takes you to a page that shows you a link to that, and a link to the full installation media
14:56<stin>Clicked 'Getting Debian' (strange title) and was sent to that page :(( wtf
14:56-!-Lordz [~Adium@186.215.116.176] has left #debian []
14:56<blast007>"Getting Debian" links to: https://www.debian.org/distrib/
14:57<musca>I think devuan has fewer images to choose from.
14:57<stin>Then I cicked ' Download an installation image' lol
14:57<stin>I am a FOOL for intuition XD
14:57<blast007>stin: you didn't read the rest of the page
14:58-!-mode/#debian [+l 796] by debhelper
14:58<musca>stin: but you are expert in ignoring useful tips
14:58<retrospectacus>you should have read more. The netinst is generally preferred, unless you won't have internet during installation
14:58<stin>If the useful tips are at the bottom of the page, then yes XD
14:58<danxor>LOL
14:58<stin>netinst is generally preferred.. Who by, the devs?
14:58<blast007>an inch below the link you clicked on isn't "the buttom of the page"
14:59<retrospectacus>no. people who want to install debian
14:59<blast007>bottom*
14:59<stin>Page layout goes a long way lol
14:59<musca>stin: www.debian.org and the download link is in the upper right corner
14:59<blast007>it's literally right next to the link you clicked on
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14:59<GHJGHJJHG>Not stin, but what makes netinst different from the other iso's offered?
15:00<retrospectacus>it is very small and so fast to obtain.
15:00<stin>"the download link is in the upper right corner" - See??
15:00-!-krabador [~krabador@000208ac.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Take The Time]
15:00<stin>Talk about not making it simple to get the one image you need lol
15:01<retrospectacus>GHJGHJJHG: caveat is that during installation, additional data (packages) are downloaded (varying depending on what options you chose during installation)
15:01-!-krabador [~krabador@000208ac.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
15:02<stin>Like most peope, I am trying to get things to work, I don't have time to research, my haste may have taken me to the wrong place, but it is obviously badly presented and could do with a more stright-forward interface to allow people to grab the version they need - Maybe a drop-down list if they insist on so many different versions? lol
15:02-!-Linked [~Chained@p4FC10D10.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #debian
15:04<musca>!choice
15:04<dpkg>[choice] consists of that mental process of thinking involved with the process of judging the merits of multiple options and selecting one for action. Simple examples can involve deciding whether to get up in the morning or go back to sleep, or selecting a given route to make a journey across a country. Philosophically, having choice implies the existence of free will and the antithesis of fate, chance and predestination.
15:06<jmlongo>If I understand all this correctly ... you don't have a debian support request, but a website design concern ... maybe here is not the place to solve that
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15:07<stin>I thought it was a problem with the PC, then the CD, now the bloody site lol
15:07-!-vortek_ [~vortek@50-79-126-213-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #debian
15:07<jmlongo>well ... sometimes when you see that all the cars are going the worng way ...
15:07-!-danxor [~none@145.133.255.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:07<jmlongo>;)
15:08<stin>When youre not sure how things are supposed to look, you don't know it's wrong 'til you ask :D
15:08-!-dennisg [~quassel@tmo-098-17.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #debian
15:08<stin>Had lots of Linux distros boot to a CLI with various errors and issues, just thought 'Oh, no. Not again... Bloody linux distros... Grumble grumble grumble..."
15:09-!-faw [~Felipe@faw.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
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15:11<stin>Technicaly, I needed supoprt installing Debian. Now I have been informed that it's one of the many other images. So while there is no bug or software issue, there was an issue which caused the incorrect deployment of a Debian distro... Just as frustrating, especially when it's wording, syntax and grammar lol
15:12<stin>Does anyone else feel that the design and layout of the Debian site could do with being brought out of the 90s?
15:12-!-paogit [~paogit@65.19.167.131] has joined #debian
15:13<stin>Nope, just the outsider lol
15:13<stin>ttfn
15:14<stin>Thanks for pointing me in a better direction :)
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15:16*stin these irc rooms are going to take some getting used to lol
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15:24<babilen>stin: It should be pointed out that the installer is identical on all images and that they merely differ in their package selection and pre-selections. You should still be able to perform every installation using any image provided you have network access during the installating.
15:25-!-ompaul [~ompaul@000135c2.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
15:26<babilen>All of them should offer you to install a desktop environment and a choice (for example). Some just require you to download the packages in question and to choose that DE explicitly.
15:27<musca>Did we discuss the live-images?
15:27<somiaj>don't need to add more information dump, the debian.org webpage has enough of it
15:27-!-Gabriel_7 [~Gabriel@2a01:e35:1386:3290:8989:727d:7572:f1a6] has joined #debian
15:27<stin>I thought I had the live images, but just got a live CLI instead XD
15:28-!-mathieu [~mathieu@nie67-1-78-226-109-145.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #debian
15:28<somiaj>stin: the debian installer is not a full live image, only contains a minimial enviorment sutiable for installing. Debian live images are different. But not really needed if the goal is to install debian (also realize the installer has to be set up to install on a very vast collection of hardware, sometimes older hardware in which a full liveimage would choke or not boot correctly
15:28<musca>that was on purpose, live images are too confusing for you ;)
15:28<stin>I got confused because the install didn't go the way I expected after reading the web site install guide... Just some infor missing from teh site, is all.
15:28<stin>somiaj: The graphical installer?
15:28-!-artur_mallmann [~arturbmal@200.135.51.253] has joined #debian
15:29<somiaj>stin: well the installer contains both a graphical and ncurses mode. There is little difference besides one lets you use a mouse (I use the text base one myself)
15:29<stin>Im used to live images, just not the myriad of other exceptions lol
15:29<somiaj>stin: this is different than a live image.
15:29-!-Oebele [~quassel@2001:67c:2564:331:d4d6:3411:50b3:969a] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:29<stin>Well, it all broke badly anyway - I need a different CD image, is all... Just need to find the right one lol
15:30<somiaj>stin: the on you have is probabaly correct, but lest take a step back.
15:30<somiaj>stin: do you have a strong network connection? Do you just want to use your network connenction to download the software you need during the install?
15:31<stin>I don't want to rely on another piece of tech to install an OS. IMHO, it should all install from the CD/DVD.
15:31-!-zlatan [~Zlatan@0001a3a0.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:31<stin>Somaij, I do, fibre, but it is not to be relied upon - I need to work even if I have no net conn.
15:32<musca>BD image ftw!
15:33<stin>Nope, then all my custmoers need BD drives :((
15:33<stin>*customers
15:33-!-ArwadSXCode [~ArwadSXCo@2a02:2f0d:ff7:5e00:e191:389f:7aaf:c1ac] has joined #debian
15:33-!-jathan [~jathan@132.248.174.116] has quit [Quit: Saliendo]
15:33<stin>I try to stick with CD (low density, fewer read issues, etc)
15:33<ArwadSXCode>Hello guys, here i can slove any kind of Linux problem ?
15:33<stin>CD images are more compatible and more stable.
15:35<musca>stin: "iso image" doesn't necessarily imply optical media
15:36<stin>i know, but it is a popular format
15:36<somiaj>stin: many just use a thumbdrive (with the cd image), but if you want a physical copy of the software then grab cd1 (maybe for the desktop you want) or dvd1 image.
15:36<musca>ArwadSXCode: sure, just go ahead.
15:36<ArwadSXCode>Guys can you help me with something ?
15:36<stin>lol I just checked out Devuan's site and that's just as messy lol : https://files.devuan.org/devuan_jessie_beta/
15:36<somiaj>ArwadSXCode: please ask your question
15:36<ArwadSXCode>OK, if i want to make a beep sound after msg in HexChat, how can i do it ?
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15:37<somiaj>ArwadSXCode: that I do not know, have you tried to ask in a hexchat channel.
15:38<stin>somiaj, I haven't seen any reference to DVD1/CD1 anywhere else but here :/
15:38<ArwadSXCode>No i did not
15:38<ArwadSXCode>Im trying to Aircrack-ng
15:38<stin>It mentions a set on teh site, but doesn't point you to a zip or collection of images, just a single iso file :/
15:38<ArwadSXCode>and i think im gonna get error
15:38<ArwadSXCode>hold a second
15:38<somiaj>stin: https://www.debian.org/CD/http-ftp/#stable -- thre are links for the cd or dvd image (your choice) and for the arch you want.
15:39<musca>ArwadSXCode: do you use kali linux?
15:39-!-xSmurf [~MrSmurf@0001cad2.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
15:39<ArwadSXCode>Yes Kali Linux 2.0
15:39<babilen>stin: And I personally would'nt recommend to use a live image for installation
15:39<babilen>dpkg: kali
15:39<dpkg>Kali Linux (http://www.kali.org/) is a security and penetration testing distribution from the creators of <backtrack>. It is based on Debian, but it is not Debian and is not supported in #debian. Seek help in #kali-linux on chat.freenode.net or http://forums.kali.org/ . Also ask me about <based on debian>, and read http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html
15:39<babilen>ArwadSXCode: ^
15:39-!-artur_mallmann [~arturbmal@200.135.51.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:39<stin>And what's the difference between the 650MB CD and 4.4GB DVD images?
15:40<ArwadSXCode>look when i type this command
15:40<ArwadSXCode> /make
15:40<musca>ArwadSXCode: you can also try ##linux on freenode.net for general questions
15:40<ArwadSXCode>Eroor "common.mak:120: *** Cannot find development files for any supported version of libnl. install either libnl1 or libnl3.. Stop.
15:40<ArwadSXCode>"
15:40<somiaj>stin: number of packages on the hard medium, you will have more packages on the dvd
15:41<somiaj>stin: because debian can also install any package from the internet it just a matter of how much of a local copy of the packages you want on the isntall medium. Sounds like the dvd is what you would want.
15:41-!-Valvalion [~Valvalion@149.54-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #debian
15:41<stin>Aaaah! My eyes open... Some older PCs only have CD-ROM drives... Do the CD images come with a GUI?
15:41<musca>stin: may I ask what is your native language (just to optmize support level)?
15:42<stin>British English (I optimise, sir ;)
15:42<stin>This info is not on that section/page :S
15:43-!-lpalgarvio [~lpalgarvi@vfpt-gw.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:43<musca>HELLO, is any native british speaker available here, to point stin to DVD1?
15:43<ArwadSXCode>Please somebody help me with this error message when i do /make of installing aircrack-ng "tar -zxvf aircrack-ng-1.2-rc4.tar.gz"
15:43<stin>musca, CD1, please (If that's a thing)
15:44<ArwadSXCode>common.mak:120: *** Cannot find development files for any supported version of libnl. install either libnl1 or libnl3.. Stop.
15:44<somiaj>stin: as babilen said, all the installers come with the same capability, it is just a matter of if you install packages not on the installer from the network or not. You will have the option to pick from many desktop enviorments when installing (the installer will be the same though)
15:44<somiaj>stin: if using a thumbdrive or you don't have access to dvd drives or dvd buring media the extra size of the dvd may be an issue so get the cd.
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15:45<towo`>ArwadSXCode, install libnl-3-dev
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15:45<stin>babilen : I missed your chat line - Can't see the wood for the leaves XD
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15:46<musca>stin: No, you were not able to tell us which desktop you want to install, so DVD1 will serve you well.
15:46<stin>What do you mean by "it is just a matter of if you install packages not on the installer from the network or not."
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15:47<somiaj>stin: so unless you have specific size restrictions I still think dvd1 is what you want.
15:47<somiaj>stin: debian has 20,000+ packages, not all of them are on any installer. But you can always access the full debian archive from the internet.
15:47<ArwadSXCode><towo`> how to install it ? from source or apt-get ?
15:47<somiaj>stin: so the difference is if you can install using only packages on the install medium or have to download some of them from the internet.
15:48<grove>!tell ArwadSXCode about kali
15:48-!-jedix [~jedix@000103f6.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:48<ArwadSXCode>!tell
15:48<stin>Mainly, I have compatibility worries... Old machines, old spares, etc... I can get the DVSD for the brand new PCs etc, but for a lot of machines a CD wouold be more appropriate.
15:48-!-jedix [~jedix@24-52-251-25.cable.teksavvy.com] has joined #debian
15:48<somiaj>ArwadSXCode: as mentioned to you multiple times, we do not support kali linux here. Please use their support.
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15:48<somiaj>stin: download both if that is what you need then. cd's come in a bit more varitey (due to smaller size) so you can only get about one desktop per cd.
15:48<ArwadSXCode>can i use their support on this Program ?
15:49-!-paogit [~paogit@4MJAAGXOF.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
15:49<somiaj>Did you read what the bot has told you multiple times now ArwadSXCode ?
15:49<somiaj>!kali
15:49<dpkg>Kali Linux (http://www.kali.org/) is a security and penetration testing distribution from the creators of <backtrack>. It is based on Debian, but it is not Debian and is not supported in #debian. Seek help in #kali-linux on chat.freenode.net or http://forums.kali.org/ . Also ask me about <based on debian>, and read http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html
15:49<ArwadSXCode>Oh, right im really sorry guys...
15:49<somiaj>ArwadSXCode: they have a channel #kali-linux but it is on another irc network (irc.freenode.net)
15:50<grove>ArwadSXCode: Try, you won't get good help here, so it can't be much worse
15:50<ArwadSXCode>no problem you already helped me by telling me how to get support from them... THX :D
15:50<musca>have fun, ArwadSXCode :)
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15:54<stin>somiaj, TBH, the end user won't care what it is, so long as it's LIKE Windows or not too different :) No point giving choices to someone who doesn't want to choose is there lol
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15:56<somiaj>stin: you are assuming that is true for all end users which is not. Debian strives to be the universial operating system, there are plenty of users hwo need different things than you.
15:56<stin>musca, a Windows-like desktop would be enough fo the end users - I just can't waste time installing (Windows was bad enough lol), Zorin is nice and quick and seems to work flawlessly :)
15:56<somiaj>stin: personally I'm glad I don't get stuck with a desktop. I don't want to use any of them.
15:56<stin>somiaj, I didn't say ALL end users are the same, just tha most don't care :/
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15:57<somiaj>stin: that is no reason to not give users the choice, which is why many choose debian is because of that.
15:57<stin>Again, not for me, for general non-technical n00bie users
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15:57<stin>A friend offered Gentoo up... Not practical pmsl
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15:58<stin>somiaj, some people dont want the hassle of making choices - Trust me I know plenty of the lol They just want it to work :)
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15:58<somiaj>stin: really the biggest draw back in that regard for users who see the first link on debian for the netinstall is many wifi cards require non-free firmware. Besides for that, the netinstall can have you inside of gnome in no time (wired connections just make it way easier)
15:58<somiaj>stin: the options are provided for those who need them.
15:58-!-Fly_Fish_ [~Fly_Fishe@50.153.156.115] has joined #debian
15:58<musca>stin: please stay on topic and talk about your support case. Which desktop do you want to install?
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15:59<stin>I liked RISC OS where you coul press f12 and the desktop just went away til you were finished on the CLI :) Besides, you always have Alt+Shift+F1-6 ;)
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15:59<stin>So long as I get the option at install, I can choose one, right?
16:00<somiaj>as we have said, all the debian installers will let you choose what desktop to install. It will default to gnome, but debian provides others
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16:01<somiaj>the debian installer actually works failry well, i'm sorry you had a bad time with it, but you are making it way more complicated than it needed to be. i.e. you have decided that the suggest install method (netinstall) is not what you want, so at least debian provides other options such as cds and dvds
16:01<musca>stin: as you want offline installation and prefer riciculous small media you will have to carry quite some cdroms with you.
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16:02<stin>I could always just say no to the customers with PC older than 5 years lol
16:03<somiaj>the netinstall (or the unoficall one with non-free firmware for wifi cards) will do quite well
16:03<stin>Shame teh CD is only 650MB and not 7/800MB :/
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16:03<somiaj>stin: you have to get much older than that to really have a system that will have trouble with usb boot or the netinstall image. 10+ years, now you can be getting into hardware that will have special needs.
16:03-!-artur_mallmann [~arturbmal@200.135.51.253] has joined #debian
16:04<somiaj>though most stuff after 2000 will work jsut fine on debian
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16:04<musca>stin: DVDs have been around since 20 Years.
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16:04<stin>Yes, musca :)
16:04<stin>musca, I am 35 yo ;)
16:04<stin>I remember vinyl lol
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16:06<babilen>"Does Debian offer vinyl images?"
16:06<stin>USB booting is still patchy, not everyone has the latest model fro Acer or Asus, I had one in with WinXP on the other day lol
16:06<somiaj>babilen: what were those old school dvd's from the early 90s that were the size of vinyls?
16:07<stin>lol babilen - That would take AGES to install and you'd need a full vinyl case to hold DVD 1 lol (This ergo keybard is slowing my typing down)
16:07<somiaj>well not dvds, were they called laswer discs, optical disks, can't seem to rember, I think they were around maybe late 80s too
16:08<grawity>laserdisc was a thing, yes
16:08<stin>lol, now it's getting obscure lol - If I can get a CD-sized image, cool... If I need to DVD image then OK. My customers are not wealthy by any stretch of teh brainpan lol
16:08<somiaj>grawity: the ones that were the size of records? I never had that hardawre but recall seeing it when I was young.
16:08<somiaj>stin: hence why debian provides these options.
16:08<stin>somiaj, how old are yo? O_o
16:08<somiaj>stin: not all situations are going to be the same.
16:08<stin>*you
16:08<somiaj>stin: almost 40
16:09<stin>Ah, laserdiscs, thought you meant records lol
16:10<stin>Right, so after a bit of frustration and another gripe at other humans about their communication habits, I must away for I must eat a fat pie :)
16:11*stin prays for better web sites in the future
16:12<stin>somiaj, that's why I want to get the most compatible medium :)
16:12<babilen>somiaj: I think you are referring to laser discs (the enormous ones?)
16:12<stin>12" across or something lol
16:12<babilen>stin: I haven't been using anything but a USB stick for ten years
16:13<stin>I had UBCD/Hirens on a USB stick, only worked on about half of my customer's PCs, same as LAN/PXE boot, not fully cupported across the board, yet :/
16:13<stin>*supported
16:13<somiaj>babilen: yea those ones.
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16:14<musca>babilen: but, but, ... remember the incompatible BIOSes from 15 Years ago!
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16:16<stin>musca, IMHO technology is tempremental, in a perfect world, w would need only BDs and USB sticks - Some of my customers have 15 year old PCs lol
16:17<babilen>stin: Why not carry a CD *and* a USB ?
16:17<babilen>dpkg: firmware image
16:17<dpkg>Unofficial <netinst> images - containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages - for installing Debian 8 "Jessie" are available from http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/ . See also <install guide>.
16:17<babilen>my recommendation ^
16:19<stin>btw, isn't systemd closed-source? O_o
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16:20<grawity>hahahahaha ha good one.
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16:45<veggi3s0>hi. i ran out of disk space on my virtual disk, and so i resized it, and now when i try to login as a regular user, i just get a temporary attempt and then it goes back to the login gui prompt, however i can login as root into the openbox wm
16:45<veggi3s0>how could i refresh or fix this you think, i dont know what is wrong, i delete my .profile and .xsession type of files
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17:00<somiaj>veggi3s0: is the user $HOME dir and permissions still intack?
17:01<somiaj>veggi3s0: is this with a user you use to have? Have you tried to create a new user and give them a clean $HOME and login with that user?
17:01<veggi3s0>yes, i did a chown myuser:myuser -R /home/myuser
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17:01<veggi3s0>there is some kind of flash to a console screen and i thikn a message, but it is too fast for me to read
17:01<veggi3s0>and then it goes back to the xwin login prompt
17:02<veggi3s0>dmesg doesn't show me it
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17:05<veggi3s0>auth.log shows me that the user and session login fine ,
17:05<veggi3s0>but it just goes to the login prompt
17:06<somiaj>wonder if it is some permission issue on hardware the user gets permission denyed and the wm closes
17:06<somiaj>but unsre there too.
17:06<somiaj>veggi3s0: can you login to a regular console (not x) with the user?
17:07<veggi3s0>yes
17:07<somiaj>as that user run 'startx'
17:07<somiaj>see if you get some more userful errors
17:07<somiaj>then check /var/log/Xorg.0.log to see what is failing
17:07<veggi3s0>oh okay, now i see the errors, thanks
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17:41<juanb>hola
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17:41<juanb>hola
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17:43<dreamy_>hi, i dont got a sound settings manager on kde, anyone helping out ?
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17:44<somiaj>dreamy_: you dno't see it in any of the menus either? I think kde uses pulse by default, you could install pavucontrol (this is a de independent tool, it won't in a system tray/applet like the kde one, but it will work)
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17:45<dreamy_>somia: what have i got to loose to give it a try ?
17:45<somiaj>dreamy_: it will work, I just don't use the main de's so I only know of some generic tools that should work
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17:48<dreamy_>im still to find out whats "dummy"
17:49<somiaj>dreamy_: what do you mean, as in dummy package?
17:49<somiaj>dreamy_: do you have a paticular package that is dummy, or is this a dummy sound card?
17:50<veggi3s0>will systemv restart a service that has crashed?
17:50<veggi3s0>systemv init
17:51<somiaj>veggi3s0: no
17:51<somiaj>veggi3s0: you would need to have your service use some helper tool, like the old deamontools for that
17:52<veggi3s0>do you use systemv or do you use systemd?
17:52<dreamy_>no somia, the sound card is a dobly surround, dummy i have it has a package
17:52<dreamy_>its a bi intriguing
17:52<dreamy_>i dont know what its for
17:52<somiaj>veggi3s0: I use systemd now since debian swtiched. I actually personally like it as an init system better than sysv init, it has some nice features.
17:53<somiaj>dreamy_: https://wiki.debian.org/Renaming_a_Package -- look at method 2
17:53<somiaj>dreamy_: these are packages that don't do anything except pull in the actual package (they appear when packages change names, and other reason though the history of debian and ensuring a clean upgrade path)
17:55<somiaj>dreamy_: so the package really is only a 'depends on real package' so when you install the dummy package it installs the real package (sometimes called a transitional package)
17:55<somiaj>dreamy_: I'm going to see if there is a difference between 'dummy' and 'transitional' to me they kinda do the same thing
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17:57<somiaj>google seems to agree with me that dummy and trasitional are basically the same type of package, I think it is more common to call them transitional packages now.
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17:57<veggi3s0>somiaj, i did a sudo update-rc.d btsync disable to disable it with systemV, then i check my /etc/systemd/sysm/mult-user.target.wants/ so i could enable it with systemD instead, and it disappeared, so i had to enable it with systemV again before i enable with systemD?
17:58<somiaj>(note these are different than meta packages which are kinda the same thing - and then you have virtual packages)
17:58<somiaj>veggi3s0: you don't use both systemd and sysvinit, you use one or the other. So update-rc.d if using systemd will have systemd disable it
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17:59<somiaj>veggi3s0: systemd is compadible with sysvinit scripts, but if using systemd you should use systemctl to configure things
17:59<somiaj>you won't have sysvinit and systemd at the same time, it is one or the other
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17:59<veggi3s0>so update-rc.d isn't a systemV program it is a general program
18:00<veggi3s0>now that i did systemctl enable btsync.service , it will auto restart if there is a crash of it?
18:00<somiaj>veggi3s0: update-rc.d is a debian program, it was tradintially used with sysvinit
18:00<somiaj>veggi3s0: but 'service' was the name of the actual sysvinit program, update-rc.d, invoke-rc.d are all debian scripts
18:01<somiaj>veggi3s0: yes systemd will restart crashed services
18:01<veggi3s0>okay thanks
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18:02<dreamy_>somia that is too confusng for me
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18:02<dreamy_>how do i scroll up on ircII
18:02<somiaj>dreamy_: lets say I have a package named 'mypackage' and somewhere down the road I need to change the name of 'mypackage' to 'mynewpackage'
18:02<somiaj>dreamy_: hit pageup pagedown
18:02<dreamy_>nevermind ill type /help
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18:04<somiaj>dreamy_: debian provides upgrade paths, so when the user upgrades, mypackage no longer exists and they need to install mynewpackage instead. Well to provide a nice upgrade path, I make a dummy package 'mypackage' (same name as the old package) so when I upgrade, this dummy package will pull in 'mynewpackage' (the real package) when I upgrade, thus making upgrade paths possible. So the purpose of the dummy package is to allow people a smooth ...
18:04<somiaj>... upgrade to the packagea with a new name
18:04<supaman>note that systemctl enable does not start the service, it only creates the appropriate symlinks, you need to issue systemctl start to start the service
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18:09<dreamy_>somia: yes ok, however it just resumes to put a usb comdenser microphone recieving, i could change to gnome and make it work. but im on kde
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18:10<dreamy_>i got pulse jack alsa and dummy thats all i know
18:12<somiaj>dreamy_: oh this isn't about packages, this is about something else. What software is giving you this option?
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18:16<somiaj>dreamy_: but sounds like to me this is under some audio output slection, and you will most likely want pulse (or alsa if you don't use pulseaudio)
18:17<somiaj>dummy is probablay just a 'dummy' option that dose nothing, maybe pipes it ot /dev/null
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18:21<veggi3s0>damn i hate netinstall, it never installs lxde wm properly
18:24<somiaj>veggi3s0: really? Works fine last I tested it, are you sure you slected lxde or just default?
18:24<veggi3s0>do you use lxde?
18:24<veggi3s0>it probably works fine for gnome
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18:25<veggi3s0>well, my lxde-rc.xml file was blank, and i tried just copying my /etc/openbox/lxde/rc.xml file to my .config directory and that didn't really change anything at login, and i dont know how to do advance config
18:25<veggi3s0>so i am just going to install the lxde.iso
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18:26<veggi3s0>without the lxde-rc.xml i don't have things like a taskbar and start button
18:27<veggi3s0>what wm do you prefer , anyways?
18:27*zykotick9 installs netinst, then once finished uses apt/apt-get/aptitude to install his desired packages for xorg/wm/etc...
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18:28<somiaj>veggi3s0: did yo uhave a blank $HOME or use an existing $HOME directory for this?
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18:28<veggi3s0>i dont know , i gave up and am just installing the lxde.iso now
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18:29<veggi3s0>oh, lxde and gnome are desktop enviroments, not wm
18:30<somiaj>because it sounds more like default configuration was the issue vs the install, and if you are using an old $HOME dir (which isn't ucnommon) you might not get lxde creating a new default configuration for you. One way to test this is create a new user and see if it has the same problems.
18:30-!-dennisg [~quassel@tmo-098-17.customers.d1-online.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:30<somiaj>but I also use zykotick9 method. I don't use the installer to install anything execpt a minial base system.
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18:30<veggi3s0>somiaj, i kept everything default and how it usualyl installs
18:30<somiaj>then apt-get to install everything else (/me glares at zykotick9 aptitude)
18:31<somiaj>veggi3s0: but if you have config files in an old $HOME sitting around this can mess with things
18:31<zykotick9>somiaj: for that last while, i've actually been using apt in all my post-install.sh scripts ;)
18:31<veggi3s0>somiaj, what DE do you like?
18:31<veggi3s0>somiaj, itw as a fresh install
18:31<zykotick9>somiaj: BUT, aptitude it safe more from an issue the other day, due to have backports enabled...
18:32<zykotick9>s/it safe/did save/
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18:32<zykotick9>ahhhh /did save me/
18:33<zykotick9>^^^ wow, i just can't fix that... "but aptitude did save me the other day, with an issue due to having backports enabled"
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18:35<irctc515>does debian have a 'legal' irc channel for licensing queries?
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18:37<zykotick9>irctc515: i've heard there is a legal mailing list, but no legal irc channel. certainly verify! 3rd hand info at this point (not valid in a court of law) ;) good luck.
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18:37<supaman>well, debian-legal does not exist
18:38<supaman>the closest I can think of would be debian-devel
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18:38<supaman>that one tends to be more about technical aspects then legal ones though
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18:41<dreamy_>oft
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18:43<irctc515>I can probably ask here for general opinions anyway
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18:43<irctc515>lets say person A + B work on a GPL2 project
18:44<irctc515>Person A stops working on it
18:44<irctc515>Person B adds commercial code in (not under GPL2 but with permission for them (as purchaser) to redistribute that
18:44<somiaj>veggi3s0: I use a small wm, fvwm, and customize it to my liking
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18:45<irctc515>my understanding of GPL is that's not allowed
18:45<somiaj>irctc515: there is only a debian-legal mailing list
18:45<irctc515>yea, I was just after opinions ;)
18:45<irctc515>as oposed to a legal answer
18:45<somiaj>irctc515: for gpl issues, #gnu on freenode is a good place
18:45<irctc515>good idea ;p
18:46<somiaj>irctc515: and the gpl allows for 'exceptions' to grand certain parties to use the code without releasing the changes (unsure on the exact details though)
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18:47<irctc515>well, I'd emailed softwarefreedom.org already, but they being slow to response
18:47<irctc515>and licensing@fsf.org seemed to agree with my view
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18:52<somiaj>irctc515: yea I think your direction isn't the way exceptions can go. Adding non-free code will not be allowed (even with an exception to distribute it from the creater of the code)
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18:52<somiaj>irctc515: giving an exception for someoen to use the gpl code in a closed source project is different and what I was refering too
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18:54<irctc515>somiaj: nod
18:55<irctc515>this is, as I say A+B work on gpl project
18:55<irctc515>B adds commercial code and says "project has permission to use it"
18:55<irctc515>which is fine, but doesn't give A permission to use GPL project in any way - which makes it non-free and a therefore violation *i think*
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18:56<irctc515>therefore project can either remove commercial code completely, or choose to remove A's contributions as options I would expect
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19:07<irctc515>right, somiaj, thanks i'm off to bed
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20:06<canaima>hola
20:07<canaima>debhelper
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20:11<veggi3s0>hi
20:12<veggi3s0>for my virtualbox debian, i usually just do a poweroff machine rather tahn shutdown, this works okay with 32bit debian, but i am wondering if it is an issue with the 64bit one because now i try to start xorg, and my keyboard doesn't work nor mouse
20:13<veggi3s0>it looks like something keeps on deleting my /etc/X11/xorg.conf file too
20:13<veggi3s0>oh, no i see it
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20:18<veggi3s0>i can't for the life of me understand why i don't have a /dev/mice , everything in my system is broken and this is a fresh install
20:18<veggi3s0>damn, i am wasting all my day trouble shooting this shit
20:18<veggi3s0>ma
20:18<veggi3s0>man =(
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20:20<sney>veggi3s0: the version of xorg in debian does not need any xorg.conf 99% of the time
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20:20<veggi3s0>i used to use a vmdk instead of vdi , does the latter have issues with power off instead of a shutdown?
20:20<sney>if you are specifying things like input drivers, especially for virtualbox which uses a compatibility layer that debian doesn't need anything special to understand, that's probably where the problem is coming from
20:21<sney>not in my experience
20:22<veggi3s0>it happened after installed guest additions, and then did a reboot, i guess it displayed some error message after it install or something that i didn't read
20:22<veggi3s0>im going to do a fresh install again
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22:34<r4ph431>hi, I just interrupted the "jigdo-lite" command. How can I resume image download??
22:34<r4ph431>When a run the same command again, jigdo-lite says: The temporary directory `debian-8.5.0-amd64-CD-1.iso.tmpdir' already exists. Its contents ARE GOING TO BE DELETED
22:37<r4ph431>moreover in case I'd like to download the lxde flavor, I don't see how it would grab packages already downloaded inside the .tmpdir/ directory.
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22:44<r4ph431>although http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Debian-Jigdo/faq.html is of no help
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22:45<snogglethorpe>Any advice for a good Simplified Chinese font package on Debian...? Right now it's rendering simplified Chinese character using "Unifont," which _works_ but is very ugly at large sizes.
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23:11<qiyong>hi anyone could do me a favor to download some pdf for me
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23:49<qaz>When will debian stop using X
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23:51<somiaj>qaz: my guess is not in the near future, debian will most likely provide the user the choice between X or wayland
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---Logclosed Fri Jun 24 00:00:18 2016