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#debian IRC Logs for 2017-07-13

---Logopened Thu Jul 13 00:00:09 2017
00:02-!-hthoreau [~paine@2804:14c:2b:87f8:12ab:93cd:1b12:c3c7] has joined #debian
00:02-!-hthoreau is "paine" on #debian
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00:08<mnuhmnuh>creative to look at, at least. still, wtf?
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00:12-!-claw is ",,," on #debian-lts #debian #debian-kde
00:12<mnuhmnuh>still suspect it's jerks controlling their botnets via some kinda code.
00:12<mnuhmnuh>bastids.
00:14-!-promach__ [~promach@2001:e68:4427:63d5:1004:6a51:c67b:ab67] has joined #debian
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00:42<yuemingwang>hello
00:43<yuemingwang>没人吗
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00:45<mnuhmnuh>stick it.
00:45<mnuhmnuh>where no sun shines.
00:46-!-linuxmodder [~Corey84@ip-64-134-100-160.public.wayport.net] has joined #debian
00:46-!-linuxmodder is "Corey Sheldon" on #cryptoparty #openstack #openbox #oftc #linux #kvm #irssi #ipv6 #https-everywhere #gcc #freenode #fosscar #fossology #ext4 #debian #Corsair #codesurfers #apparmor #smxi
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01:39<FluffyFoxeh>mnuhmnuh: I want to say someone controlling a botnet would find it easier to do it from a hidden channel where there aren't ops and users to get them banned/killed
01:41<FluffyFoxeh>in other words, this is much too conspicuous
01:41-!-ole [~ole@2a05:f6c2:2870:0:6dc7:7e20:7a68:7c0f] has joined #debian
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03:02<cinhi>Hey
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03:02-!-idkCpp_ is "Martin Bürgmann" on #debian
03:03<cinhi>Holy
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03:05<andaloes>hi all
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03:08<cinhi>Wow
03:08<damnlie_>Ahoi
03:10<cinhi>Haha
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03:40<Maarten_>i have a rsync backup snapshot script (not including /home) that is currently runned by cron... but i was wondering.. lets say i issue a distro upgrade command and then go have dinner.. if during the upgrade the snapshot script runs, every using the resulting snapshot might cause all sorts of problems... so what is the best way to make sure the script only runs while nothing is changing important parts of the system? i was first thinking of X-idle time but
03:40<Maarten_>while im away from computer it could still be changing stuff like the distro upgrade.... ??
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03:46<Nemoder_>if you're using something like rsnapshot to have consecutive backups then you could just recover from the previous one if the latest didn't work. seems easier to just avoid doing updates during scheduled backups
03:49<Nemoder_>probably a good idea to run debsums after a backup recovery anyway, then just reinstall anything that's broken
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03:51<jmcnaught>Maarten_: if you are using LVM, you can create a snapshot of the volume you're backing up, mount the snapshot somewhere, and do your backup from that
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03:53<Maarten_>jmcnaught: im not use LVM, but just to be curious, does LVM backups also allow for backing up selected folders?
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03:54<Nemoder_>just have to make sure to create the snapshot before updates are underway
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03:55<jmcnaught>Maarten_: with LVM you use logical volumes instead of partitions, and you can make snapshots of the LVs, which contains a snapshot of the filesystem on the LV. The Red Hat manual is a good introduction to LVM
03:56<grove>Maarten_: LVM snapshots would probably be the best option, but you could try to add something to your script that parsed output from ps and tries to determine if an upgrade is running, but it's error-prone so be very aware if you go that way
03:56<jmcnaught>Maarten_: I agree with Nemoder_ that you should use a tool that does consecutive or incremental backups. maybe check out obnam, or duply
03:57<jmcnaught>btrfs can also do snapshots, which you can use to make backups from
03:58<Maarten_>jmcnaught: so LVM doesnot allow for snapshots of selective parts of the file-system.
03:58<jmcnaught>Maarten_: no, it is a block device level tool
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03:59<jmcnaught>btrfs is different, subvolumes look and act like directories, and you can make snapshots of subvolumes (that also are like directories)
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04:01<Maarten_>jmcnaught: yes i know about btrfs.. but im not looking for other ways of doing snapshots, im looking to find the best ways to determine what is the best/safest time to run my snapshots.
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04:04<Maarten_>Nemoder_: debsums seems interesting... does it check if the install packages or all the files that ware installed by a package?
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04:04<jmcnaught>Maarten_: the difference is that an rsync snapshot is slow, it has to traverse the entire filesystem and copy the differences. An LVM or btrfs snapshot is created instantly, then you rsync from that. This way the timimg of the backup becomes less of a problem.
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04:05<Nemoder_>Maarten_: debsums checks all the files of all installed packages
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04:07<jm_>Maarten_: it checks only the files which package provides info for, see /var/lib/dpkg/*.md5sums files
04:08<Nemoder_>Maarten_: seems an ideal approach for you would be to create a snapshot, run a backup, reset the time until next backup, then run your updates
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04:09<Maarten_>jm_: accoring to http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/trusty/man1/debsums.1.html "debsums can generate checksum lists from deb archives for packages that don't include one."
04:11<jm_>Maarten_: yes it can, but you will need to provide package files in that case
04:11<Maarten_>Nemoder_: i don't understand what you mean with.. 'create a snapshot, run a backup' what is the backup
04:11<Nemoder_>rysnc the snapshot to your backup media
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04:11<Maarten_>jm_: but those files are in the apt cheche righ?
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04:12<jm_>Maarten_: they can be
04:12<Maarten_>how to 'reset the time until next backup'
04:13<Nemoder_>depends on how you schedule it currently
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04:14<Maarten_>well, now im using cron.. but i was thinking of writing bash script for more flexible time rules, if you have any suggestion...
04:16<Nemoder_>you could probably script a new cron rule to ignore the time you estimate the backup to take
04:16<Nemoder_>but i'm no cron wizard :)
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04:20<Maarten_>Nemoder_ suggested to 'avoid doing updates during scheduled backups' actually i want to do it the other way around. not run backup if my debian box is doing other stuff. i decided not to use X-idle times.. instead now i will use the debsums as Nemoder_ sugested, and in my script i will check if /var/lib/dpkg/lock is locked by apt or dpkg. are there any other types of lock that default application in debian use which i could check?
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04:23<jmcnaught>Maarten_: you could look at using systemd timer units with declared dependencies Before= and After=
04:27<Maarten_>jmcnaught: i did hear of them befor but what i get for https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Systemd/Timers it seems that their are no applications that would preform any kind of lock using timers...
04:28<iKarith>OMG, I just found the most important command I have been missing for like forever in Linux... xcalib -invert -alter (It's a toggle to invert your screen colors)
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04:29<iKarith>I'm a light-sensitive albino
04:29<hahaha>enheng
04:29<jmcnaught>Maarten_: I don't see anything in the man pages that says you cannot use Before= and After= in the [Unit] section of timer units, but i've never tried it
04:29<iKarith>White backgrounds suck.
04:30<hahaha>so ga
04:30<hahaha>有木有人啊
04:30<Maarten_>有啊
04:31<hahaha>在干啥?
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04:32<hahaha>????
04:32<jelly>!cn
04:32<dpkg>如果您想要以中文得到 Debian 相關的協助,請加入 irc.debian.org 或 irc.oftc.net 上的 #dot 頻道,連線與加入頻道的方法請參閱 IRC 程式之相關說明,或於網路上搜尋。謝謝您的合作!
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04:34<Maarten_>jmcnaught: sorry i don't get it.. how can i use the Before= and After= in the time units to check which application have activated which lock files?
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04:35<hahaha>hello
04:35<Maarten_>hahaha: did you have an actually debian related question?
04:35<hahaha>no
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04:36<Maarten_>hahaha
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04:36<hahaha>hamaoxian
04:36<jmcnaught>Maarten_: why are you checking for lock files again?
04:37<Maarten_>that was my last question @ 10:20
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04:39<Maarten_>jmcnaught: i thought your answer was a response to that...
04:39<Maarten_>hahaha: pinyin is to difficult to read
04:39<jmcnaught>Maarten_: you might be over-engineering your backups. How long does it take to back everything up? Do you actually do unattended upgrades? If so, schedule those cron jobs 12 hours apart, or if not schedule the backup to happen while you're asleep
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04:41<hahaha>pinyin is easy for me...
04:42<Maarten_>jmcnaught: hihi, yes i might be over-engineering... but its a nice way to learn more about the inner workings of debian.. so i see it as a nice learning opportunity....
04:43<jmcnaught>Maarten_: keep it simple, and it will be less fragile. If you are worried about database consistency for mysql or postgresql then you should be doing a dump first. For overall filesystem consistency, you can make a LVM snapshot (which is instant and contains the entire filesystem frozen in time, and is space efficient) and then do your rsync/whatever backup from that
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04:43<jmcnaught>learning weird idiosyncratic ways of doing things is not as good as learning best practices
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04:46<jmcnaught>it's not just dpkg consistency that you need to worry about. on a web application what happens if someone uploads a file while the backup is taking place, and the file is recorded in the database but then deleted. if rsync backed up the database and the uploads directory at different times, then there will be an inconsistency
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04:48<badargo>hello!
04:48<jmcnaught>Maarten_: anyways good luck with figuring out a solution, i've gotta go
04:49<Maarten_>jmcnaught: oke thanks, and thanks for your time...
04:50<badargo>so... why the info command is not working on my Debian 9?
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04:54<badargo>and where can I find a boot log? theres no /var/log/boot file
04:55<badargo>maybe debian is really a joke
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04:57<badargo>wheres the boot log?!?
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05:00<jm_>if you have systemd installed then journalctl will show it
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05:08-!-jcash is "real name" on #debian
05:08<jcash>I was a highwayman. Along the coach roads I did ride, with sword and pistol by my side
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05:08<jcash>Many a young maid lost her baubles to my trade. Many a soldier shed his lifeblood on my blade
05:08<jcash>The bastards hung me in the spring of twenty-five, but I am still alive.
05:08<jcash>I was a sailor. I was born upon the tide, and with the sea I did abide.
05:09<jcash>I sailed a schooner round the Horn to Mexico. I went aloft and furled the mainsail in a blow
05:09<petn-randall>!ot
05:09<dpkg>#debian is primarily a support channel for Debian users. Please keep the discussions in #debian on-topic and take longer discussions and non-support questions to #debian-offtopic. Imagine the chaos if each of the hundreds of people in the channel felt the need to wander off topic for a few minutes every day.
05:09<jcash>And when the yards broke off they said that I got killed, but I am living still.
05:09<jcash>I was a dam builder across the river deep and wide, where steel and water did collide
05:09-!-jplejacq [~jplejacq@24.224.107.176] has joined #debian
05:09-!-jplejacq is "Jean Pierre LeJacq" on #debian-kde #debian
05:09<jcash>A place called Boulder on the wild Colorado, I slipped and fell into the wet concrete below
05:09<petn-randall>jcash: Really beautiful, but you picked the wrong channel for this.
05:09<jcash>petn-randall: buzz off
05:09<jcash>They buried me in that great tomb that knows no sound, but I am still around
05:09<petn-randall>!ops jcash
05:09<dpkg>Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, abrotman, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen, SynrG, jm_, somiaj, jelly: petn-randall complains about: jcash
05:10<jcash>I'll always be around..and around and around and around and around
05:10<jcash>!ops Johnny Cash is amazing
05:10<dpkg>Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, abrotman, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen, SynrG, jm_, somiaj, jelly: jcash complains about: Johnny Cash is amazing
05:10<jcash>I fly a starship across the Universe divide, and when I reach the other side
05:10<jcash>I'll find a place to rest my spirit if I can. Perhaps I may become a highwayman again
05:10<petn-randall>jcash: Can you at least paste the full lyrics at once?
05:10<jcash>Or I may simply be a single drop of rain, but I will remain
05:10<jcash>And I'll be back again, and again and again and again and again..
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05:10<jcash>petn-randall: that would defeat the purpose of flooding the channel
05:10<jcash>lol
05:11<jcash>im trying to be annoying
05:11<jcash>!ops SOMEONE BETTER BAN ME RIGHT NOW OR I AM GOING TO MASS HIGHLIGHT
05:11<dpkg>Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, abrotman, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen, SynrG, jm_, somiaj, jelly: jcash complains about: SOMEONE BETTER BAN ME RIGHT NOW OR I AM GOING TO MASS HIGHLIGHT
05:11<petn-randall>jcash: I guess school's out and you're alone at home?
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05:13<iKarith>or he managed to get in to someone else's network and wants to get them banned from the server and/or channel
05:13<badargo>why bash doesnt find the info command? and whats this journalctl line i need to check on my last boot failures in debian?
05:14<iKarith>badargo: you may not have the info command installed It's in the package "info"
05:14<badargo>i have to download and install basic bash commands?
05:15<iKarith>info .. isn't a basic command
05:15<petn-randall>badargo: If you install 'command-not-found', it will tell you which packages you need to install to run that command.
05:15<iKarith>I'd suggest apt-file as well
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05:15-!-ach is "KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://kvirc.net/" on #debian
05:17<iKarith>once installed, every time apt's package list is downloaded, it'll update apt-file's database as well. doing apt-file search bin/info found the package needed almost immediately
05:17<petn-randall>badargo: If you need it, install it. It's not that hard.
05:18<badargo>im still learning linux and i dont want to install things before i learn where they are and how to remove them in detail ;S
05:18<badargo>but thanks, i will settle with --help and man for now
05:18<iKarith>info is nowadays only really used mostly by a few GNU things whose manuals are not DFSG anyway
05:19<iKarith>when I need to read one, I tend to prefer pinfo
05:19<badargo>im reading this book from the project called introduction to linux a hands on ... and i keep running into things like this
05:19<iKarith>less powerful, but I don't have to memorize as many keyboard commands
05:19<petn-randall>badargo: You have to install things to use them? How is that different from Windows/Mac OS/any other OS on the planet?
05:20<badargo>dont you have to download a package?
05:20<iKarith>badargo: Windows gives you a DVD. If you're lucky. Debian gives you a cryptographically secured package repository.
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05:21<iKarith>Partly that's because Debian would at this point require a stack of DVDs.
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05:22<iKarith>What is stretch? Like 4 or 5 without source code?
05:23<iKarith>Most of it is stuff you'll probably never use. But if you're using a book that tells you to check out a manual in info format, odds are the info program and possibly the manual weren't installed by default to save space on a default system, since not so many people use them anymore.
05:24<pipedream>looks like 3 https://cdimage.debian.org/mirror/cdimage/release/current/amd64/iso-dvd/
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05:24<iKarith>Still three? Some packages must've been pruned for staleness then
05:25<badargo>yep im readin
05:25<zeta>the number of DVDs available depends on which download method you pick
05:25<zeta>https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/jigdo-dvd/
05:26<iKarith>In my day sonny, in the old days when people still remembered libc5, Debian fit onto five CDs, with source code. And apt didn't really exist yet. And we had to run dpkg like six times to install packages and handle all the cyclic dependencies. AND WE LIKED IT! Er wait, no we didn't. ;)
05:26<badargo>the book teaches how to find help about certain commands by using commands such as man --help and info, and make them seem present in every linux installation :P
05:26<badargo>debian wiki also mentions info command
05:26<iKarith>yup
05:29<badargo>also, why cat goes crazy when i try to read some documents with it?
05:29<badargo>txt , pdf, it goes rly crazy!
05:30<badargo>it even bugged my terminal window as it started to show those unknown weird symbols
05:30<duclicsic>can only works with plain text, a pdf document is a binary file that requires special software to view it
05:30<duclicsic>cat*
05:31<duclicsic>it should be fine with a typical txt file though
05:32<petn-randall>badargo: It's not "going crazy", it's just doing exactly what you asked it to do. And that is output every single byte of it to the terminal.
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05:34<iKarith>badargo: txt it should not go crazy
05:34<iKarith>badargo: PDF ... is not text.
05:35<iKarith>cat only knows how to spit out the bytes of a file
05:35<iKarith>if you type which xdg-open and it finds something, try xdg-open <your pdf file>
05:35<badargo>i made this file using libre ofice im prety sure it was txt
05:36<iKarith>libreoffice defaults to OpenDocument, which is most definitely not text.
05:36<badargo>now im trying to run the terminal just to try cat again, but i see the small circle symbol show up and is goes away without opening the terminal :(
05:36<iKarith>GUI documents tend to need GUI viewers
05:36<petn-randall>badargo: You can run 'file <nameofthefile>' on it, it will tell you what file type it is.
05:37<badargo>i just made a new txt file to try cat out, but the terminal is not opening
05:37<petn-randall>badargo: Maybe you already have one open?
05:37<badargo>alt-tab show no terminal window
05:38<badargo>maybe i should kill it just like in windows?
05:39<badargo>it only shows the spinning circle :S
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05:40<badargo>i will reboot
05:40<iKarith>I assume a spinning circle is Gnome for Windows hourglass or Mac beachball or something like that?
05:40<badargo>yes
05:40*iKarith doesn't use Gnome
05:41<iKarith>You should be able to run a process manager and kill it
05:41<badargo>processes are in the next chapter :(
05:41<petn-randall>:)
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05:41<iKarith>Do you have a run command somewhere?
05:42<iKarith>(I'm going to assume you don't have any terminals open you're worried about losing?)
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05:43<iKarith>If not, you can run "pkill gnome-terminal" and that should murder the process nicely for you.
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05:44<badargo>hummm
05:44<iKarith>BTW, when was this book you're using printed?
05:44<badargo>lemme see
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05:44*iKarith has a suspicion it's going to be pre-systemd
05:45<taowa>bardago: You might also want to try Ctrl-Alt-F6 to get a tty (essentially a terminal, but it's separate from gnome)
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05:46<iKarith>you should be able to get back with ctrl-alt-F7 most likely (try a few others)
05:46<badargo>ok i will try ctrl alt
05:46<iKarith>Probably F1 through F7 have something useful on them by default
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05:46<taowa>They're all empty for me
05:46<iKarith>F1 through F6 will have login prompts
05:46<MarkedOne>Hello good ppl. I want to install and use OpenCV in my Java project. What I need to install? I can't find any "how to" on debian web pages and there is really a lot of packages related.
05:47<taowa>Well, F1 has all the output from boot, but that's not too important.
05:47*iKarith will immediately bow out of java, he has a headache.
05:48<badargo>the book is in a place called tldp org
05:48<iKarith>And if I were to offer my opinions on Oracle, I should think a chanop would (or should) kick me for excessive use of four-letter Saxon words.
05:48<badargo>its from 2008 i guess
05:48<iKarith>So it's prehistoric. :)
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05:49<jm_>MarkedOne: surely you'd use something like maven to provide relevant jar-s for that feature
05:49<iKarith>It'll help you learn to get around the terminal, how to use manpages and info documents, common shell commands that are equivalent of DOS commands in Windows. You may find some of the more common system-level commands are emulated like ifconfig
05:50<iKarith>but anything system-level ... doesn't apply.
05:50<Brigo>MarkedOne, there is an opencv-data package
05:50<iKarith>Not even a little bit. :)
05:50<taowa>MarkedOne, http://docs.opencv.org/2.4/doc/tutorials/introduction/desktop_java/java_dev_intro.html also seems to provide a decent guide
05:50<MarkedOne>jm_: I don't believe that whole OpenCV is in jars.. I need prbably some packages installed also
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05:51<MarkedOne>Brigo: Is it enoug? Why it has name data...
05:52<Brigo>MarkedOne, not sure, there is an opencv package too, but it is not in stable, it seems.
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05:52<MarkedOne>First I need t install it.. Java binding is second step..
05:53<iKarith>anyway, I have Apple II disk code to write :)
05:53<MarkedOne>Brigo: There is libopencv-dev package but it seems... it is for developing OpenCV itself.. not using it for apps
05:54<iKarith>libopencv-dev would be for writing C programs that use libopencv
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05:55<iKarith>you may or may not need that to get java bindings for libopencv going, dpeneding on what's available to be installed and what you need to build.
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05:57<MarkedOne>iKarith: Available are packages in stretch....I need to make program in Java that will recognize street signs..
05:58<MarkedOne>iKarith: I don't want to use C for this..
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05:58<iKarith>I don't blame you :)
05:59<MarkedOne>iKarith: I like C and I know it strengths.. But I have "job" to do fast and witout much effort >D
05:59<iKarith>I've done most of my code in C over the years. I'm presently asking a question about something in Python so I don't have to write this aforementioned disk code that way.
05:59<iKarith>I _could_ write it in C.
05:59<iKarith>I just don't want to.
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06:00<iKarith>I _like_ that opening a file and reading it is two lines. Yeah, I could open and read and error check and close in my sleep, but ... two lines. :)
06:00<Brigo>MarkedOne, there is a opencv package https://packages.debian.org/source/stable/opencv, but it's just a source package.
06:01<Brigo>MarkedOne, i think you'll need the python package and the data and libraries. I don't really now, i don't even know what openvc is for.
06:01<MarkedOne>iKarith: I understand.. :D
06:02<MarkedOne>Brigo: A lot of c and c++ code for computer vision.. :D
06:02<iKarith>Brigo: MarkedOne isn't using Python, I am :)
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06:03<Brigo>i am just saying there is python bindings available.
06:03<badargo>i just rebooted :P so, cat cant read odt files?opendocument text files?
06:03<MarkedOne>iKarith: You are making driver for HDD in python?
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06:04<iKarith>MarkedOne: Apple II disk images. They tend to start around 140k and go up to 32MB.
06:04<MarkedOne>badargo: "cat" can read anything.. but it may be mess.. you need program to interpet data and show correctly on screen
06:05<badargo>its always messy unless its a conf file
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06:06<badargo>how do u make cat says meow?
06:06<MarkedOne>Don't know >D
06:07<badargo>i saw it meowing in somewhere in google and someone was unhappy with that
06:07<MarkedOne>iKarith: Seems old device xD Are you doing it just for fun?
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06:10<taowa>badargo, $ echo 'meow' | cat
06:10<taowa>I mean, it's probably not what you're looking for, but it works...
06:10<badargo>haha i will try
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06:14<petn-randall>badargo: just run 'cat' + enter. Then type 'cat<enter>'. Press ctrl+d after that.
06:16<badargo>no meow :S
06:17<iKarith>MarkedOne: I'm doing it because I've taken over a couple of projects A2SERVER and A2CLOUD which do all kinds of interesting things with the Apple II machines, the first computers I ever used and the only ones I could use for quite a long time.
06:17<iKarith>These packages are horrendous shell script nightmares as inherited
06:18<badargo>when i finish this book i will compile a bash version that returns wrong commands like a cat saying meow and ur stupid nyan nyan :P
06:18<iKarith>you won't need to compile anything to do that. Bash has a hook you can use. ;)
06:18<iKarith>that's what command-not-found does
06:19<badargo>but it doesnt meow
06:19<petn-randall>badargo: Install cowsay, it's also fun :)
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06:20<iKarith>alias dammit_i_said=sudo
06:20<iKarith>;)
06:21<iKarith>$ dammit_i_said vim /etc/fstab
06:21<badargo>thats too advanced :S
06:21<iKarith>you'll get the hang of it.
06:22<iKarith>one alias I actually do use is alias ls="ls --color=auto -F"
06:23<iKarith>That seems to go in and out of fashion as a "standard" thing on Debian systems.
06:24<iKarith>it's correct to argue that it should not be there by default because it's going to violate the principle of least surprise for anyone who knows what ls should be doing by default.
06:25<iKarith>But it's also correct to argue that it's friendly for new users, it's handy even for more advanced users who don't mind their terminals looking like an angry fruit salad, and any user sufficiently advanced enough to be annoyed by it being there knows how to turn it off.
06:26<badargo>so what does this mean in the ls man page: --author: with -l, print author of each file ?
06:26<badargo>should i type ls --author -l file?
06:26<iKarith>sure if you want to
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06:27<badargo>but it doesnt work :S
06:28<iKarith>it works for me
06:28<badargo>ohhhhh
06:28<badargo>it worked i seeeee
06:28<iKarith>instead of seeing tjcarter tjcarter, I get tjcarter tjcarter tjcarter
06:28<iKarith>the third tjcarter is me as author of the file
06:29<badargo>but wont u always be the author of the files u download on ur pc? i guess this author thing refers to users
06:29<iKarith>I can tell you that on ext4 at least, "author" is always the same as owner.
06:29<iKarith>I just checked.
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06:39<badargo>does ls still have suffixes for each file type such as * for eecutable filel or @for links or this book is rly old?
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06:41<grove>badargo: Those can be obtained with the -F option to ls, which is still supported
06:41<jm_>yes, you can easily check that yourself
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06:45<badargo>ohh i see, its also in the man page for ls buried with the many options i cant put to work :P
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06:53<badargo>i just ls -F /etc :P its cool
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07:01<badargo>hey "Using the df command with a dot (.) as an option shows the partition the current directory belongs to"
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07:02<badargo>theres no "." option in the main page... does this applies to other commands? what the . means?
07:02<badargo>*man page
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07:06<jm_>badargo: in that case "." acts as [FILE] in the man page
07:06<grove>badargo: The dot is just a path, `df /path` always show information about the mount point of `/path`
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07:11<badargo>if i input just df it lists all partitions, if i input df . it lists the current directory partition... so . = path to current partition?
07:11<badargo>ops
07:12<badargo>current directory
07:12<badargo>what a mess :P
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07:12<grove>What's messy about that? . is per defintion the current directory and .. per definition the parent directory
07:14<badargo>ohhh
07:15<badargo>now i understand :P thanks!
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07:20<badargo>whats the difference between which -a and which ?
07:21<badargo>any command I can try on to see the difference?
07:22<jm_>depends on which which you are using :P
07:24<badargo>haha well, if i which ls and which -a ls i get the same result, same with the other commands i tried too
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07:27<jm_>that's pretty much OK, if bash had which built-in it would show more for shell builtins (i.e. echo print etc.)
07:27<jm_>zsh has that and you can clearly see it there
07:32<badargo>yes but whats the difference? 0.o
07:33<badargo>and why echo --help or echo --version dont work either? :P they just print --help and --version
07:34<jm_>try /bin/echo --help
07:34<badargo>ohhh
07:34<jm_>that the one man page is for, without that you are using shell built-in like I said before, so for that one in bash it's «help echo»
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07:35<Drzacek>hi
07:35<badargo>amazing! thanks
07:35<Drzacek>so how do I set automounting of usb drives?
07:37<jm_>!automount
07:37<dpkg>If you're running one of the desktop environments in Debian, then ask me about <kde automount>, <thunar-volman>. If you want something for the command line, then ask me about <usbmount>, <pmount> or <halevt>. For a completely different approach to automounting, ask me about <autofs>.
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07:37<badargo>ohhh so u can both type "help command" and "command --help"
07:38<jm_>help is bash specific, other shells won't have that commands
07:38<badargo>only bash? but the others have man?
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07:38<Drzacek>I'm asking you about <usbmount> dpkg
07:39<Drzacek>hmmm might be bad syntax :D
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07:39<jm_>man is /usr/bin/man
07:39<jm_>Drzacek: /msg dpkg usbmount
07:39<badargo>the other shells dont have man nor help nor info?
07:39<Drzacek>badargo, they have if you install man
07:40<jm_>no, man and info are external commands, not shell built-ins like "help" is for bash - all shells should be able to execute external commands
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07:43<jm_>use 'type' command in bash to see which is which, i.e. type echo type man type help
07:43<Drzacek>hmmm is usbmount missing in stretch?
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07:44<Drzacek>https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=usbmount
07:45<badargo>it says which is hashed and ls is aliased 0.o
07:46<badargo>ohhh but cd is a shell builtin
07:46<badargo>so is help :P
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07:47<jm_>right, hashed means it's external (shells remember path so thay don't need to look it up over and over again), as for aliased: «alias ls» to see what it really is
07:47<jm_>Drzacek: it would appear so
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07:48<badargo>whatis and which cant find the type command 0.o
07:49<badargo>man neither
07:49<badargo>tho help can
07:49<jm_>because those don't work for shell built-ins, it will sink in eventually
07:50<jm_>Drzacek: possibly because of https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=774149
07:50<judd>Bug http://bugs.debian.org/774149 in usbmount (open, help, patch): «usbmount: Can't mount ntfs drive (Transport endpoint is not connected)»; severity: grave; opened: 2014-12-29; last modified: 2017-04-01.
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07:52<badargo>so there are buillt in commands and not built in commands and some dont interact humm
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07:53<badargo>not built in commands wont work with built in commands but build in commands will work with not built in 0.o
07:54<jm_>yes, rule of thumb is, for help with shell built-ins consults its man page (shell's, not command's), or its built in help facility if it has one, for external ones use man/info/...
07:54<jm_>that's incorrect generalization
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07:57<badargo>yes, still trying to get my head around this :P
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08:01<badargo>so I cant find out wheres a builtin command?
08:01<badargo>using which?
08:01<Drzacek>to complicate your life even more, most commands can have -h/--help parameter badargo
08:01<Drzacek>badargo, you can use 'type' for that
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08:01<jm_>like I told you before, not with bash as it lacks "which" command, use "type" instead in bash
08:01<badargo>ohhh
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08:02<Drzacek>which tells you what program binary it uses, useful when you might have few versions of your program (one in /bin, other in /usr/bin, third in /usr/local/bin), but you are not sure and want to know exactly which one you use
08:03<Drzacek>it would make no sense for which to work on internal bash (or ash or sh or ch or whatever else command interpreter out there) commands
08:03<Drzacek>at least thats how I understand it
08:04<badargo>if i type which it willl point the directory where which is placed, but if I type type, or type cd, it wont show the directory of the command
08:04<jm_>now I will make it more complicated by saying zsh has which built-in :P
08:04<Drzacek>and prior to this moment I didn't know "type" command exist
08:05<jm_>badargo: there is no directory for shell built-ins, they are part of the shell, they don't exist as executable files on file system
08:05<Drzacek>jm_, well, the shell itself exist as binary on the filesystem :D
08:05<jm_>Drzacek: yes, but not its internal commands
08:05<Drzacek>true
08:06<e_>SuperDale
08:08<badargo>hey! help -h returns a invalid option !
08:08<badargo>ahh u meant most commands :P
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08:10<badargo>hey, why echo word prints a word, echo $HOME prints a directory and echo $PATH prints many directories?
08:11<badargo>help doesnt mention $ as an option
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08:11<badargo>theres no mention of $ nor the capital words neither in man nor help
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08:13<badargo>this echo command is a cheater :P
08:13<abrotman>no
08:13<Drzacek>badargo, I would look for explanation what $ is in man pages of bash, since this is special character that forces bash to interprete things in special way
08:13<e_>abrotnam
08:13<badargo>ohhh
08:13<abrotman>e_: do you need help?
08:13<e_>tomatov
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08:14<abrotman>e_: that's annoying, knock it off
08:14<badargo>man $ and help $ show no results
08:14<Drzacek>in short (and probably not quite right) explanation - it is used to replace the argument with variable or even command
08:14<abrotman>badargo: man bash
08:14-!-mega_ is now known as crims
08:14<abrotman>or visit tldp.org and read the bash docs, or greycat's wiki
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08:15<Drzacek>'man bash', chapter "Special parameters"
08:15<badargo>wow man bash is a real book
08:15<badargo>so many pages
08:16<badargo>thanks i will read that
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08:32<badargo>so help ls and ls --help print different stuff :S
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08:35<badargo>bash man clains -i makes bash interactive, but... whats up with all these bash options? all commands have options that overwrite this stuff making it useless
08:36<badargo>like ls -i wont make bash interactive, it will list the file inodes
08:37<badargo>this is messy!
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08:41<badargo>lol hey guys!!!! try this!
08:41<badargo>type this in terminal:
08:42<badargo>yes meow
08:42<badargo>hahaha
08:42<jamesmc>badargo: -i makes bash interactive as an option to bash, eg "bash -i", not as an option to ls
08:43<badargo>ohhhhhhhhhh
08:43<badargo>so bash is a command
08:43<jamesmc>Yeah, but by default it gets run for you when you log in or open a terminal
08:47<badargo>aww i think i messed up.. i typed bash -l and now terminal wont open bash man
08:47<badargo>oh my mistake :P
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09:01<Drzacek>did some SDL package changed recently in debian stretch?
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09:03<Drzacek>Is there a way to list packages with their upload date?
09:03<bremner>Drzacek: you can look at the changelog in /usr/share/doc
09:04<Walex>Drzacek: unlikely as 9/stretch is "stable", so only bug fixed
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09:04<bremner>or "aptitude changelog package"
09:04<Walex>Drzacek: for upload date the date of the file in the repo seems a good idea.
09:05<Drzacek>Walex, true, didn't know how to express what I mean. I'm checking changelogs now, looks like nothing changed since december 2016
09:05<badargo>hey!
09:06<badargo>u can mix command options one next to another with impunity?!
09:06<bremner>it depends (TM)
09:07<badargo>what if i input ls -alloptions
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09:07<Walex>badargo: as "bremner" says... Each command can parse/handle its options in any way it wants.
09:07<Drzacek>badargo, I would say "there is one way to find out", but after last time I won't (his pc burned) :D
09:08<Drzacek>some of the flags exclude each other probably, so you'll get "usage: " screen, cause your query wasn't understood
09:08<Walex>badargo: there is no standard on how to interpret options, and some command don't even use "-" as an option prefix, or don't support one character options.
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09:09<badargo>hahaha
09:09<bremner>years ago, this made people switching from VMS to Unix very angry.
09:10<Walex>badargo: usually, but not always, commands do this: options begin with "-", are one-character, can be put together if the don't have values, take effect left-to-right at the point at which they are specified.
09:11<badargo>hummm yes, ls with all options didnt work :S
09:12<badargo>but stuff like ls -alF work
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09:12<grove>Because -a -l and -F makes sense together
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09:14<badargo>as does ls -ailF
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09:16<grove>Yes, but -l and -o does not, and (quick) experiments seem to show that -o takes precedence as output of `ls -lo`, `ls -ol` and `ls -o` looks identical
09:17<Drzacek>badargo, so is fuser -fuck
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09:18<grove>That's an example of options that doesn't make sense together but where specidying them doesn't cause an error. Other programs might say the equivalent of "I don't know what you mean, so I won't do anything"
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09:20<badargo>fuser has no -f nor c process 0.o
09:20<badargo>ops options
09:20<grove>Drzacek: If we have to there, my favourite is `ls -laid`, in that case each option does something, not like your example where -f is "Silently ignored, used for POSIX compatibility."
09:20<badargo>haha i will try that
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09:29<badargo>u can even repeat the same option indefinitly like ls -aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
09:30<badargo>like ls -masturbation :P
09:30<badargo>this sound rly useless tho
09:30<blast007>badargo: some commands will treat repeated options differently. for instance, for verbosity or debug level, each instance of -v (or -d, in some programs) will increase the verbosity or debug level.
09:31<blast007>s/will/may/
09:31<badargo>ohhhh
09:32<badargo>my terminal just revolted
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09:34<badargo>can u mix yes command and another like ls or df together?
09:34<grove>Yes, but what do you want to achieve?
09:35<badargo>yes && ls only print letter y forever
09:35<badargo>just curiosity :P
09:36<grove>That's because && means somehing like "and if that finishes succesfully, then run", but `yes` will never finish, so the shell will never get to the rest
09:36<badargo>ohhh
09:37<grove>If you try something like `ls && df` you should be able to see
09:39<badargo>oh yeah :) it works
09:40<grove>It makes very little sense to do that though, if you want to see what && does try `true && ls` and false && ls`. `true` and `false` are som every simple commands that just succeeds/fails
09:42<Sakarah>Do you know why gtk3-engines-oxygen was dropped since stretch ?
09:43<blast007>https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=797796
09:43<judd>Bug http://bugs.debian.org/797796 in ftp.debian.org (closed): «RM: oxygen-gtk3 -- ROM; broken with GTK >= 3.16»; severity: normal; opened: 2015-09-02; last modified: 2015-10-02.
09:43<badargo>true && ls prints ls default command. false && ls does not return anything :S
09:44<blast007>badargo: now try it with || instead of &&
09:44<badargo>hahaha funy
09:45<badargo>more bash secrets :P
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09:47<blast007>that's a pretty common thing, actually. even works on the Windows command prompt.
09:49<itd>badargo: Not sure if those count as secret: http://mywiki.wooledge.org/BashFAQ http://www.shellcheck.net/
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09:53<badargo>ohh i will check them out
09:53<badargo>thanks
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10:06<badargo>lets say you want to cat 2 files one after the other like /etc/issue and /etc/shells
10:07<badargo>how u do that in a single line?
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10:09<abrotman>badargo: cat file1 file2
10:09<badargo>thanksss
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10:19<badargo>these unknown files and folders keep popping in my home directory :S
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10:20<badargo>whats a less history file?
10:21<itd>badargo: What do you think it is?
10:21<badargo>a history conf text file of
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10:21<badargo>my less :P
10:21<badargo>whatever it is
10:22<itd>badargo: 'man less' can tell you what less is and also describes the history file. ;)
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10:35<badargo>can someone explain to me what ls -d does exactly? cuz it only prints a dot no matter what
10:35<badargo>its suposed to list a directory
10:35<petn-randall>badargo: "." is a directory.
10:36<badargo>. is the current directory right
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10:36<badargo>i learned that today
10:36<badargo>but
10:36<badargo>this is bs, this -d option only print .
10:37<Blacker47>it prints only informations related to THAT dir. you may add -l too
10:38<Blacker47>badargo, this parameter is less usable for daily interactive use - it could be more usefull for scripts.
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10:39<badargo>ohhh i just discovered if u point it to another directory such as ls -d /etc it will print /etc/ in blue...
10:39<badargo>well
10:39<petn-randall>badargo: Maybe you should step back and admit that there are use cases you don't know about yet before calling this and that out for being bullshit.
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10:41<badargo>ok sorry if that ofends u
10:41<duclicsic>badargo: in daily use of linux for the last 15 years or more, i've never even noticed that option for ls. you find and learn about these options as and when you need them, you discover them when you have a problem to solve and you check the man page. most of them you will probably never use.
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10:44<petn-randall>badargo: It's ok to not know a lot of things, everyone in here started that way. But if you don't understand something, you mindset should be "oh, there's something I can't fully grasp yet, I better get learning", and not "this is bs/crazy/stupid".
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10:47<badargo>well, honestly, i think an option that returns a . or the directory u just typed is quite silly :P but i dont mean to sound like someone who hates linux or anything like that
10:47<badargo>so i will tone it down
10:49<petn-randall>badargo: If you don't list any file as parameter in ls, it will assume the currently directory. So the output of 'ls -d' is consistent with what you'd expect from 'ls -d .'.
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10:52<duclicsic>badargo: try 'ls -d */'
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10:52<duclicsic>might give you something more like what you expect
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10:52<petn-randall>Or better, 'ls -d /*/*'
10:53<grove>People do different things on Linux, I've know about ls's -d option for many years, and use it a couple of times a week. Similarily duclicsic probably know options for other commands that I don't know, and that's just how it is and everyone is fine with that
10:53<duclicsic>^^
10:53<badargo>ohhh thats nice
10:54<duclicsic>even when you don't discover the option, there's usually another way to do it
10:54<duclicsic>usually 10 other ways to do it even :)
10:54<badargo>what the * does exactly? and whats a dir*dir* ?
10:55<duclicsic>* is expanded by the shell into a list of all files/directories in the current working directory
10:55<duclicsic>*/ would expand to a list of just the directories
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10:55<duclicsic>e.g. echo */ will list all the directories, but on one line
10:56<duclicsic>useful in scripts, but not so much in other cases
10:56<grove>And when you put characters in front of/behind a * it only lists files having those characters first/last
10:57<grove>And there's also ? which the shell expands to only one character
10:57<badargo>haha funy, i just did ls * :P
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10:58<itd>badargo: something for your list of things to read: http://mywiki.wooledge.org/RegularExpression
10:58<grove>That process is called globbing, and there and many possibilities, and some shells (e.g. zsh supports even more advanced stuff)
10:59<badargo>thanks gonna check that out
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11:00<grove>It might look like `ls *` does the same thing as `ls`, but it doesn't. In the first command it's actually the shell that does most of the work, and if you try it in a directory with very many files you'll get an error
11:03<grove>(how many goes in "very many" depends on a lot of things, but it might just be some hundreds)
11:03<grove>`echo *` does something very similar
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11:04<badargo>hummm
11:05<badargo>any folder with hundreds of files?
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11:09<badargo>hey! if i mkdir -p another directory with the same name, what happens exactly?
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11:11<badargo>i just mkdir -p another Documents folder but theres no change in my home
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11:11<badargo>humm
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11:11<grove>That's to be expected, as one of the documented effects of he -p option to mkdir is to be quiet about existing directories
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11:12<grove>Start by executing `mkdir foo` twice
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11:13<grove>and then try something like `mkdir -p foo/bar/baz`
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11:14<iStrive>Good morning ALL!
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11:15<iStrive>I upgraded my Debian Jessie to Stretch (in place upgrade) and now I cant find a way to enable X11VNC over SSH, these are my error messages from the log: xauth: unable to generate an authority file name
11:15<iStrive>then
11:16<iStrive>-auth guess: failed for display=':0'
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11:16<iStrive>What can I do to get it fixed? Anybody here to help me out?
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11:17<dondelelcaro>iStrive: is X11Forwarding yes in /etc/ssh/sshd_config? Are you using ssh -X foohost; ?
11:17<duclicsic>i don't think you need X11 forwarding for that
11:17<duclicsic>i've used it before and never used -X
11:17<dondelelcaro>hrm; true
11:17<dondelelcaro>I actually don't use x11vnc
11:17<iStrive>It was working perfectly in Jessie before
11:18<iStrive>what yes, it is forwarding...
11:19<dondelelcaro>iStrive: does ~/.Xauthority exist for that user?
11:20<iStrive>when I list the folder (ls -la) it shows the file there with -rw---------
11:20<dondelelcaro>iStrive: and xauth info; gives you the correct entry?
11:21<iStrive>Using authority file /home/istrive/.Xauthority
11:21<duclicsic>is the user actually logged into a session on that machine or is it sitting at the login prompt in your display manager?
11:21<badargo>ohhh
11:22<badargo>but how is mkdiri foo/bar/baz different then mkdir -p foo/bar/baz?
11:22<iStrive>no I want it to be able access before login
11:23<dondelelcaro>iStrive: then you'll have to use the display manager's authority file
11:23<duclicsic>indeed. are you using gdm?
11:24<iStrive>ssdm
11:24<duclicsic>check in /var/lib/ssdm/
11:24<dondelelcaro>badargo: man mkdir; -p ignores whether directories already exist, and also makes the entire path
11:24<dondelelcaro>badargo: I'm assuming mkdiri is a typo, anyway
11:24<badargo>yes
11:24<duclicsic>ity might be root readable only though, so you may have to make a copy of it
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11:24<duclicsic>i am not sure what security implications this has
11:25<iStrive>ls /var/lib/ssdm no such file or directory!
11:25<dondelelcaro>usually, anyone who can read that file can get access to anything you type in
11:25<badargo>dondelelcaro: can u show me a mkdir -p line that mkdir cant do?
11:25<duclicsic>iStrive: ok you'll have to find out where it is, i'm not familiar with ssdm
11:26<dondelelcaro>badargo: sure. mkdir foo/bar/baz; vs mkdir -p foo/bar/baz;
11:26<iStrive>can you use one display manager for the system and another in ssh/vnc?
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11:26<badargo>mkdir cant foo/bar/baz? humm i will try that
11:26<duclicsic>probably not with x11vnc
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11:26<dondelelcaro>badargo: the equivalent of mkdir -p would be something like -e foo || mkdir foo; -e foo/bar || mkdir foo/bar; -e foo/bar/baz || mkdir foo/bar/baz;
11:27<badargo>ohhhh
11:27<dondelelcaro>badargo: so yeah, you can definitely do it with mkdir, but typing that all out gets annoying
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11:28<badargo>whats that -e? a mkdir option? i still got learn what || does :S
11:28<badargo>and ;
11:29<badargo>that too high grade for me :P
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11:29<badargo>im pleb tier haha
11:29<dondelelcaro>badargo: man test; for details
11:29<dondelelcaro>that should really be [ -e foo ] || , actually
11:29*dondelelcaro just got tired of typing
11:29<badargo>haha
11:30<iStrive>what would be the best display manager for X11VNC on sctretch?
11:30<itd>badargo: Try 'echo 1; echo 2'
11:30<badargo>ohhhh nice
11:31<badargo>its like 2 commands in sequence instead of a string right?
11:31<dondelelcaro>iStrive: I'd personally just not use X11VNC, and use straight X11 forwarding over ssh; no need for a DM
11:31<dondelelcaro>badargo: right
11:31<badargo>ohhhh this is cool
11:32<dondelelcaro>badargo: if you want to learn more, the bash manpage is a start (or there are probably better more introductory books/tutorials out there)
11:32<iStrive>I'm using the ssh to, but somethimes I will need to remote into the system with graphical interface, that's why I need the VNC with SSH
11:32<dondelelcaro>badargo: http://www.bash.academy/ may be good
11:32<badargo>im reading introduction to linux a hands on guide and annoying ppl here with my curiosity :P
11:32<badargo>ohhh looks nice
11:32<dondelelcaro>ah; that's a good place to start then
11:33<dondelelcaro>once you've done that, you can hit up the manpages and other things
11:33<dondelelcaro>iStrive: yeah, so the usual thing is to ssh in, and then start whatever you need to use a GUI for
11:35<iStrive>precisely what am trying to achieve! SSH connection then VNC over it! but it's failing! :(
11:37<iStrive>I can't find the sddm settings for X11VNC anywhere, is KDE better then GDM to use in Stretch?
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11:41<dondelelcaro>iStrive: my point is that you don't actually have to do that. You can literally just go ssh -X foohost; then on foohost run something like xeyes
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11:44<drEquivalent>Hello
11:45<drEquivalent>Anyone here working with Exim?
11:45<itd>drEquivalent: Hello, maybe. What is your real question?
11:46<annadane>!ask
11:46<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
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11:47<drEquivalent>I have problem with Exim not forwarding incoming messages that came from SRS source to local domains.
11:47<drEquivalent>*aproblem
11:47<drEquivalent>*a problem
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11:48<drEquivalent>Debian version 8, Exim configured with ISPmanager (anyone seen that stuff here?)
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11:51<drEquivalent>We have configured Exim with ISPsystem ISPmanager so it forwards messages from multiple domains to one. For example recipient.su forwards to recipient.ru. All is fine and well until message from SRS comes along. Exim bounces such message with following error:
11:51<drEquivalent><recipient@recipient.su>: host mx.recipient.su[xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx] said: 550-Verification failed for <SRS0=OzDF=5U=sender.snd=sender@recipient.ru> 550-Unknown user 550 Sender verify failed (in reply to RCPT TO command)
11:51<drEquivalent>Having switched verification off, this message turned to:
11:51<drEquivalent><recipient@recipient.su>: host mx.recipient.su[xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx] said: 550 Unknown user (in reply to RCPT TO command)
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11:51<jvelasquez>quick question please. on the page: https://www.debian.org/distrib/packages, when searching package directories, how come "linux" has results, but "linux-image" is too generic a term?
11:51<drEquivalent>What I expect it to do, is to get message delivered to the recipient on local server on recipient.ru
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11:53<itd>jvelasquez: My guess would be: many entries exist that are called linux-image, but only few are called linux.
11:54<annadane>further to what itd said i would also guess that the search syntax doesn't take into account that linux is part of linux-image
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11:58<itd>drEquivalent: Are you able to share your configuration? (As ISPmanager seems to be closed-source, one can only guess what it does.)
11:58<drEquivalent>itd: Will gladly do!
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12:02<drEquivalent>itd: Here, https://pastebin.com/56tXdeVa And also domains file: https://pastebin.com/jT53C5Rm
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12:14<itd>drEquivalent: To be honest, I have no idea. A quit search suggests [1] that the error might originate from postfix when used with the option 'reject_unverified_sender'. [1]: https://serverfault.com/a/629727
12:14<inkbottle>[testing but summer time] I've got a problem setting LC_PAPER in /etc/locale.gen (http://paste.debian.net/976335/ http://paste.debian.net/976336/)
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12:15<drEquivalent>itd: But there's no postfix here. Only may be on sending hosts, and they shouldn't matter
12:15<inkbottle>I don't see that LC_PAPER="fi_FI.UTF-8" is malformed
12:17<annadane>inkbottle, testing goes in #debian-next
12:17<annadane>#debian is stable only
12:19<inkbottle>annadane: but on next there is only you, and you can't help on this, and locales are pretty standard
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12:20<jmcnaught>inkbottle: that just means you need to be patient then, please respect the channel topics
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12:23<inkbottle>jmcnaught: roger that
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13:09<badargo__>what dirname does?
13:09<badargo__>hummm
13:09<itd>badargo__: Only 'man dirname' knows that.
13:10<badargo__>yes i read man dirname already
13:10<badargo__>also dirname --help
13:10<badargo__>whatis dirname
13:10<badargo__>etc
13:11<jmcnaught>badargo__: it prints the directory name by removing the last part of the path. Did you look at the examples in the man page, or try it and see?
13:12<badargo__>oh didnt see the examples, thanks
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13:12<badargo__>mostly there arent examples so i didnt notice that
13:13<jmcnaught>badargo__: i like to also check the bottom for a SEE ALSO section
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13:24<badargo__>hey! this books saying i can use asterisks like this ls dirname/*/*/*[2-3]
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13:25<badargo__>as subistitutes
13:25<badargo__>is that right?
13:26<petn-randall>badargo__: Try it and see. What you're referring to is called "shell globbing".
13:26<badargo__>i tried :S
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13:27<petn-randall>badargo__: And it worked? Or did you get an error message?
13:27<badargo__>ls dirname returns me a no dirname present so i assume dirname means a directory
13:27<badargo__>i made 5 folders numbered 1,2,3,4,5 and no, didnt work
13:28<badargo__>oh now it worked
13:29<badargo__>so weird :P
13:29<petn-randall>badargo__: If you literallyi type 'ls dirname/*/*/*[2-3]' this mean it's looking for a directory literally called 'dirname'. And a few directories below.
13:29<badargo__>ls */*/*/4 returned a 5 :P
13:29<blast007>no, not weird. it's a pretty predictable result.
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13:30<blast007>is the folder '5' within the folder '4'?
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13:49<jeremiah>Do folks still use a chroot to build debian packages nowadays?
13:49<jeremiah>Or do folks use a container?
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13:51<Cytre>is there a way to control the screen resolution of an xserver session? I'm booting into an installation without a desktop and start an app via commandline to run on x like: startx program
13:51<itd>jeremiah: Depends on 'folks', I guess. buildd [1] does use a chroot. [1]: http://wiki.debian.org/buildd
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13:52<Cytre>I'd like the screen resultion to fit my device. Currently, I'm running on VBox, but the virtual machine keeps popping in different resolutions that are bigger than wanted.
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13:52<jeremiah>Thanks itd
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14:02<taylan>I upgraded a day or two ago and rebooted today to find my keyboard and touchpad not working with X.Org. a USB mouse didn't work either. anyone had something similar?
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14:03<taylan>not even Ctrl+Alt+F1 works. I have to reboot every time.
14:03<taylan>hmm, I can try to ssh in and see if the PC hangs
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14:08<taylan>if I don't come back you know it didn't work. trying to start X.Org now...
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14:09<taylan>ok it's just the input that doesn't work
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14:51<mnuhmnuh>Cytre: in olden days, we stuffed local important values in ~/.Xdefaults, now ~/.Xresources, and many other app specific config startup files (eg. ~/.xinitrc and ~/.xsession, ...).
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14:52<mnuhmnuh>nowadays, first find out how the app does things. X and dm are only doing what they're told.
14:52<taylan>I "solved" my problem by running gnome-session with wayland, LOL
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14:53<taylan>GNOME-Wayland already more real-world functional than GNOME/X.Org lololol
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14:54<mnuhmnuh>taylan: i haven't looked at gnome lately. how do it and mate compare these days?
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14:58<Cytre>mnuhmnuh: does that mean I will need to set up a xorg.conf? I just want a way to control screen resolution. The idea is to have an app launch at startup, without any user interaction, on a raspberry pi with a touch screen attached.
15:01<mnuhmnuh>Cytre: you want to run process on pi exporting visual interface to $deviceinyourhand? x server runs on pi, app runs in pi's X, $DISPLAY=...
15:02<mnuhmnuh>x on pi can serve x apps headless, as long as backend X is functional.
15:03<Cytre>mnuhmnuh: The Pi is my goal, currently I'm just using VBox with stretch installed for development and testing.
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15:04<Cytre>The Pi will be running raspbian. Once my development and testing is done, I will work on the Pi. The VBox is also for me to know what packages etc I will be needing.
15:04<mnuhmnuh>Cytre: long, long ago, i looked into sokris and mini-itx 'cause i thot they were just tres cool; ditto pi these days, i suppose.
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15:08<Cytre>mnuhmnuh: Will I be able to control that via xorg, or will it be fine when starting the app in fullscreen for it to fill the entire screen perfectly on the Pi?
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15:11<itd>Cytre: If you need raspbian support try #raspbian on irc.freenode.net.
15:12<Cytre>itd: Thanks for the channel, but my concern currently is Debian on VirtualBox with starting an app via startx <app> and controlling the screen resolution
15:13<Cytre>I will add the raspbian channel to my list and look there when progress to the Pi part.
15:15<itd>Cytre: It might be that you need to install the vbox guest additions (on the guest) to be able to manipulate the screen size of the guest.
15:15<jmcnaught>Cytre: my experience with Xorg for the last several years has been that it always correctly sets the native resolution of the monitor without an xorg.conf. If you are using virtualbox's virtual GPU, it may not be giving reliable information about the native display resolution (because its display is a window that can be resized.
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15:15<jmcnaught>Cytre: so you may find that once you switch to the pi that this works differently than it did in the VM. However, you can always create an xorg.conf file if you want to control things that don't get set up correctly automatically
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15:16<Cytre>itd: will give that a try.
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15:17<Cytre>jmcnaught: Makes sense. I did receive messages regarding xorg when closing the app and coming back to the terminal. I had a hunch it might be because of the VBox, but I wasn't sure.
15:17<mnuhmnuh>Cytre: i think your questions are more related to basics of how X and X apps do things. X server running on $server headless can be told to execute app and send $output to $DISPLAY=...; smiple[sic]. :-)
15:19<Cytre>mnuhmnuh: Yeah, I haven't got that far yet :D I'm trying to understand the starting an app with startx which works better than I first expected. Next step is to get it to start at boot without root privileges and user interaction.
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15:20<Cytre>I do know the theory about using xinit etc. files to make it possible. I just like to test things before I go further
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15:22<jmcnaught>Cytre: i had a project setting up quasi-immutable infrastructure windows VMs on debian computers, and I used nodm as the display manager to log directly into a user and launch spiceviewer (or something)
15:24*mnuhmnuh i wondered wtf? about nodm when i heard about it, but never found time to look into it. :-( ty.
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15:26<Cytre>jmcnaught: Sounds interesting, but tbh I never heard about nodm until now.
15:28<jmcnaught>i also wanted an application to start full screen on boot, in this case a viewer for the windows VM running in the background, and nodm did the trick
15:31<dan24>Hi! My shell script behaves unexpectedly when run by the Dash (Debian Almquist) shell. I've illustrated my findings here: http://dpaste.com/18ZYK6A. 'err_not_empty' uses 'local' and 'err_empty' uses 'command local', with different results.
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15:33<anon>hello
15:33<JohnnyX>Btw guy's I've done a upgrade from Oldstable to Stable. The forced migration from MySQL to MariaDB was a complete failure. I code for a living, and wasn't funny to convert it back. Any queries was making MariaDB crash and needed a service restart.
15:33<anon>i dont know mate
15:34<jmcnaught>JohnnyX: how did you "convert it back"?
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15:34<JohnnyX>jmcnaught, some dump. Then got the binary from the mysql website. And reimported the entire thing
15:34<JohnnyX>I needed to hack the apt source file
15:34<anon>aha why ?
15:34<mnuhmnuh>JohnnyX: i'd expect to start over with a good backup i could dump into a newly recreated db.
15:35<jmcnaught>JohnnyX: by hack you mean edit?
15:35<mnuhmnuh>wouldn't want it any other way.
15:35<JohnnyX>Yes, Mysql official as a package named mysql-server which enter in conflict with the official debian one
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15:36<jmcnaught>JohnnyX: fixing mariadb on your Debian system might've been better in the long run than using the upstream packages, especially if they conflict with Debian packages
15:37<JohnnyX>jmcnaught, yeah. But as said I code for a living. Got to stick same as clients, as I already have over 8Gig in this DB.
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15:37<JohnnyX>jmcnaught, but yeah I know if debian get a update on that package, it will overwrite and create issues.
15:38<JohnnyX>jmcnaught, just didn't expected to have a complete DB change from a update.
15:38<Luxius>Hello. I would like to install Debian on my notebook. Unfortunately I am without optical drive and USB pen, is there a way to install from Windows? I already tried win32-loader.exe as suggested @ https://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/Loader but it stops with an error (Release file cannot be trusted).
15:38<bremner>JohnnyX: was it missing from the release notes?
15:38<JohnnyX>bremner, I don't recall to have seens choices in the dist-upgrade if I wanted to switch to MariaDB, or stick to offical MySQL
15:39<jmcnaught>JohnnyX: I would have made a container to run MySQL in if I really needed it, instead of potentially compromising my Debian system (though I don't know what you did really…)
15:39<bremner>that wasn't my question. You may want to read the release notes before upgrading in the future
15:39<bremner>those kind of major changes are typically documented.
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15:39<JohnnyX>bremner, good point.
15:40<Cytre>johnnyX: It doesn't ask if you keep or upgrade, it actually tells you that mysql will be replaced by mariadb, and that you can instruct the upgrade to create a dump of the mysql db
15:40<mnuhmnuh>JohnnyX: see apt-listchanges apt-listbugs
15:41<jmcnaught>JohnnyX: you still may want to read the release notes now even though you've already upgraded
15:41<JohnnyX>May give it a try at some point. Right now the queries on over 2M rows was taking over 15min when it's less then 15sec on MySQL strangely same default settings.
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15:42<JohnnyX>I guess it's time to sit down and take a closer look by what you are all saying ;)
15:43<Cytre>JohnnyX: If you told the upgrade to create the backup - which I believe does it anyway - then you should be able to find the backup in /var somewhere. I don't rememberexactly where at the moment
15:43<Cytre>I did the same thing, upgrading from jessie to stretch.
15:43<jmcnaught>Luxius: you can also boot the installer over PXE if you have another computer that can act as a TFTP server
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15:43<JohnnyX>Cytre, thanks, things are back in normal. Just wanted to point out that MariaDB "isn't" a drop in replacement as they suggested. It was a failure for me.
15:44*mnuhmnuh "Boss, the db's spittin' out 130k errors/day! Should i fix any of that?" "No! My new feature, then play!" :-P
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15:45<godzilla>hi
15:45<godzilla>welcome
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15:46<Luxius>jmcnaught, thanks for the tip. I do have my desktop, but I have no experience with PXE at all. I guess I'll go read up on it, if that's my only option =)
15:46<Cytre>JohnnyX: Sorry to hear, but in my case the upgrade worked fine for 5 different servers and 2 desktop workstations. Not meaning to belittle your experience, but contrast with mine.
15:47<jmcnaught>Luxius: if you can borrow or temporarily repurpose a USB stick, that is the easiest option
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15:48<react>JohnnyX: what would it take to encourage you to use a managed service for your relational workloads, just curious
15:50<itd>dan24: What do you expect to happen when you execute 'command local a=b'?
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15:54<mnuhmnuh>react: i suspect that would be up to their customers. PCI compliance, HIPAA regs, IntRev, ... depends what he's doing.
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15:56<react>I just see people tinkering with operational overhead of mundane tasks (mysql for instance) and tend to cringe, I hope it's something regulatory getting in the way, although that beind said, the big cloud vendors have answers relative to PCI/HIPAA/BAA, and so forth
16:03<itd>dan24: I'd argue that 'command' will ignore the build-in 'local' and try to call a program 'local' from your path.
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16:10<dan24>itd: that's not what I would expect. Dash is POSIX compliant: http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/utilities/command.html
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16:13<taylan>mnuhmnuh: I'm not big on DEs and only use GNOME minimally. never tried Mate.
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16:16<mirav>JohnnyX: Mariadb in Stretch is version10, which is not a drop-in for mysql, mariadb 5.5 is a drop-in for mysql5.5 only
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16:27<edeak>I use i3
16:27<edeak>but I somewhat miss DEs
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16:34<itd>dan24: Oh, you are saying 'if command_name is not the name of a function, the effect of command [...] shall be the same as omitting command' would be violated then, right?
16:35<itd>(Since 'local' is a "buildin" and not a "function".)
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16:37*mnuhmnuh gladly jumped to perl to avoid all the $thistools syntax wars. life's too short.
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16:39<dan24>itd: yes exactly! I would expect the behavior to be the same with or without 'command'.
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16:40<badargo__>heyyy
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16:41<badargo__>this find command is clearly a troll
16:41<badargo__>ok, can someone explain to me if those wildcards are not the * symbol?
16:41<badargo__>maybe thats why the find command never works!
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16:43<badargo__>ok according to this, find <path> -name <searchstring> will launch a search for any file in the system
16:43<dtw>find command interprets wildcards by itself but user needs to make sure that they are not interpreted by the shell before find.
16:44<dtw>find . -name '*.pdf'
16:44<badargo__>i thought it was " not '
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16:45<dtw>That's a shell thing. They are different but the difference is not relevent in my example.
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16:45<dtw>relevant
16:46<badargo__>ok i try to find the /etc/issue file. i input find / -name 'issue.*'
16:46<badargo__>all i get is permission denied
16:47<badargo__>like 40 times
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16:48<badargo__>find: ‘/run/user/1000/gvfs’: Permission denied
16:48<zeta>your normal user is not allowed to snoop around everywhere
16:48<badargo__>i sudo, same thing
16:48<badargo__>i didnt made a root acc
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16:49<Cytre>badargo__: sudo find /etc -name 'issue*'
16:49<Cytre>what does that do?
16:49<mnuhmnuh>find / -type f -name issue*
16:50<mnuhmnuh>find /etc -type f -name issue*
16:50<badargo__>Cytre: that works and no permission issue trigered
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16:50<badargo__>but im pratically spoon feeding where the file is :P
16:51<Cytre>badargo__: I encounter that often too, but being more specific with the path helps
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16:52<badargo__>ohhhh issue* can remove even the dot? noicee
16:52<mnuhmnuh>find has lots of other specifiers besides -type.
16:52<badargo__>i just ls cd to etc , find issue* worked :P
16:54<badargo__>https://paste.gnome.org/plghbrqkg
16:54*mnuhmnuh "Unix is a very simple system, really. It's just that it takes a genius to understand its simplicity." -- Kernighan?
16:54<badargo__>hummmmm
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16:55<badargo__>i just dont like when it doesnt work as its told it does
16:55<badargo__>i get this line ‘/run/user/1000/gvfs’: Permission denied
16:56<badargo__>below that line i get the successful search results
16:56<mnuhmnuh>badargo__: count your blessings. when i started, all the manpages read like they were written by japanese, translated by Finns into english then piped through bork.
16:57<badargo__>rly? they are still hard to read tho
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16:58<badargo__>if u man find i dont think u get find <directory> -name <searchstring> anywhere
16:58<badargo__>whichs the probably the only thing the page should say :P
16:58<badargo__>well, most important at least
16:58<Cytre>badargo__: Remember, there can be subdirectories or files with root permissions in directories that have less strict permissions. This can cause the permission denied
16:59<Cytre>badargo__: In those cases I su into root and run the command again, but I know the risks of doing things as root.
16:59<badargo__>theres only one user and no root user in this computer :(
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17:00<Cytre>how? default debian installation always has a root. Just curious
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17:01<badargo__>u have the option to not provide password nor login when it asks for a root user
17:01<badargo__>during installation
17:01<badargo__>this man find is probably the longest man page i ever found and it says zero things about how to put find to work
17:02<Cytre>hm. never tought of that. I always add a password for the root.
17:02<Cytre>I'm off of work. bye
17:02<badargo__>byeeee
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17:05<badargo__>but debian has no info command so all i have is that failed man page
17:05<rican-linux>So remmina is not in the stretch repos, It was in jessie and it is in testing. what would it take to get it put in backports? It is a gret rdp client that I use for work to accesss windows servers
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17:08<badargo__>i dont get why ppl like these new distros, they dont add nothing just stream line the same thing over and over
17:09<mnuhmnuh>badargo__: pinfo?
17:09<badargo__>no info nor pinfo
17:10<badargo__>this man find page is atrocious
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17:11<badargo__>open that type / and search for -name
17:11<dan24>itd: what I find weird is both 'export' and 'local' are special builtins in Dash, both handle variable assignments. But 'command export a=b' works, while 'command local a=b (inside function) fails.
17:12<dan24>itd: fails to assign a value to "a" that is.
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17:15<badargo__>mnuhmnuh: what iname does as an argument in the file command?
17:15<hiq[m]>dan24 (IRC): badargo__ (IRC) ignore case
17:15<hiq[m]>just like -name but ignoring case
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17:16<hiq[m]>(sorry got the nicks messed up)
17:16<badargo__>sorry im not a native speaker, whats a case? 0.o
17:16<hiq[m]>UPPER CASE / lower case
17:16<mnuhmnuh>i see "failed to load v4l-cx23885-enc.fw" in journalctl. apt-file search that turns up nothing. ideas?
17:16<badargo__>ohhhhh
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17:17<badargo__>hiq[m]: thanks!
17:17<hiq[m]>mnuhmnuh (IRC): usually you need a non-free firmware, but if everything works for you I would just leave it like this
17:18<hiq[m]>well at least I get these messages only when I boot up my laptop
17:19<mnuhmnuh>hiq[m]: yes, tx, good advice. not broke, ...
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17:19<hiq[m]>exactly
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17:20<badargo__>when the man page fails where should u learn about a command?
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17:20<badargo__>google?
17:21<JohnnyX>badargo__, info also work: info ls
17:21<mnuhmnuh>badargo__: irc! find the right channel for it, and drain wizard's brains.
17:21<badargo__>ah but my debian came with no info
17:22<JohnnyX>badargo__, apt-get install info then
17:22<mnuhmnuh>sudo apt-get update && apt-get install pinfo
17:22<badargo__>mnuhmnuh: hahaha i do that, but they wont talk about the other 100 options to use the find command unless i ask them and i rly dont know any of those :P
17:23<badargo__>i hope info treats me better than man :P
17:23<hiq[m]>badargo__ (IRC): just read the whole man page, if you're serious about learning, it's worth it in the long run
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17:24<hiq[m]>you can also search through the page for the right words, for example if I do "man find" and "/case", the option -iname is the fourth result
17:24<mnuhmnuh>badargo__: i was where you are ca. '93. it should be a lot easier for you to do it now than it was for me to do it then. :-)
17:24<badargo__>check the man page for the find command. u will notice it doesnt list -name pratically anywhere
17:25<hiq[m]>well I have it, it says "-name pattern" and goes on to explain what it does
17:25<badargo__>0.o
17:25<hiq[m]>several examples are given at the end as well
17:25<hiq[m]>so I don't know how you proceed, but I have everything I could possibly need in "man find"
17:26<badargo__>ahhh yes :S i failed in my searchs :P
17:26<badargo__>i thought all i had to do was press enter but guess i have to type -name again and again
17:26-!-drEquivalent1 [~av@91.226.31.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:26<JohnnyX>badargo__, a simple / enter repeat the latest search
17:26<mnuhmnuh>badargo__: xman -notopbox -bothshown & # pointy-clicky man iface. athena widgets, but it isn't hard to sort out.
17:27<JohnnyX>badargo__, use /-name for example to search -name in the man. Then just / to skip to the next search result
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17:28<badargo__>ohhhh i see :P sorry for being so ignorant :P
17:28<badargo__>so i type / enter the keyword press enter, then / and just enter again
17:28<JohnnyX>badargo__, yep
17:28<mnuhmnuh>ignorance is fixable. stupid, or lazy, ain't. :-)
17:28<JohnnyX>No sorry
17:29<JohnnyX>Type: /thekeyword [enter]
17:29<JohnnyX>Then /[enter] for next result
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17:30<JohnnyX>badargo__, No worries, we all had to start somewhere.
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17:33<mnuhmnuh>btw, that's vi syntax. /blah == search for blah. subsequent / == find next.
17:34<JohnnyX>mnuhmnuh, yep... After so many years nothing have beat vi yet .. Except maybe vim ;)
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17:35<mnuhmnuh>the learning curve is steep, but once you get to 30,000 ft., it levels out and eveything starts to just fit together. :-)
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17:36<mnuhmnuh>JohnnyX: i use vi for quick clickitys, and love emacs as code env. makes perl beautiful.
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17:37<mnuhmnuh>look beautiful.
17:37<JohnnyX>mnuhmnuh, hummm I code in Vim for over 20years... Love the color custom syntax. Do we have a debate Emac/Vim? ;)
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17:39<mnuhmnuh>i know vim does it too, these days. :-) remember blues bros? "We like both kindsa of music, country and western!" hates nano. :-P
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17:40<JohnnyX>mnuhmnuh, Yep good one ;) I tried a few others, but my production was going down. Too much shortcut to learn again...
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17:44<itd>dan24: (dash from HEAD produces the same output.)
17:47<Luxius>https://xkcd.com/378/
17:47<Luxius>"real programmers use butterflies"
17:47<mnuhmnuh>i v. much doubt this is the most relevant channel in which to be discussing shell functionality differences. don't mind it, but you're wasting your time here, methinks. hth. carry on.
17:48<dan24>itd: same as I described before?
17:49<mnuhmnuh>Luxius: keeper.
17:49<JohnnyX>Luxius, nice one
17:50<itd>dan24: Yes. https://paste.debian.net/plainh/74914fe2
17:50<Luxius>heh, I'm not a programmer myself, but I coincidentally read that strip today and you guys reminded me of it =P
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17:53<JohnnyX>Luxius, Perfect timing
17:53<dan24>itd: oh cool, thanks for checking. I'm currently reading the Dash manpage to see if I can find this behavior explained somewhere.
17:59<badargo__>hey
17:59<badargo__>./libs/Dwarf_Fortress: error while loading shared libraries: libSDL_image-1.2.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
17:59*mnuhmnuh just *luvs* "dmesg --level=err,warn" # gorgeously color highlighted, blows the doors off journalctl! woof. :-)
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18:00<badargo__>i guess i need the libsdl-image-1.2 i386 version to run dwarf fortress
18:00<badargo__>but i dont want to install something then dont know how to remove it later :S
18:00<JohnnyX>badargo__, use packages.debian.org the second search engine. Will tell you in which package this file located.
18:01<mnuhmnuh>badargo__: no, use apt-file search. it don't exist. frankendebian?
18:01<mnuhmnuh>*buntu?
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18:05<mnuhmnuh>badargo__: see libsdl-image1.2
18:05<mnuhmnuh>/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libSDL_image-1.2.so.0.8.4
18:06<badargo__>i installed it
18:06<badargo__>somewhere i dont know
18:06-!-mathieu [~mathieu@nie67-1-78-226-109-145.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:06<badargo__>now its ./libs/Dwarf_Fortress: error while loading shared libraries: libSDL_ttf-2.0.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
18:06<badargo__>:P
18:07<zeta>badargo__: is this with the LNP?
18:07<mnuhmnuh>installed == available, in theory.
18:07<badargo__>hummm whats LNP? sorry im a pleb here :P
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18:08<zeta>lazy newb pack. a launcher and config tool for dwarf fortress. their github page has a list of packages you need to install on debian
18:08<mnuhmnuh>libsdl-ttf2.0-0 - /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libSDL_ttf-2.0.so.0.10.1
18:08<badargo__>ahhhh i remember that
18:08<badargo__>i just sudo apt-get install libSDL-ttf2.0-0
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18:09<badargo__>zeta: is this linux friendly LNP up to date?
18:09*mnuhmnuh just beatin' back entropy. my hobby. :-)
18:10<zeta>badargo__: https://github.com/Lazy-Newb-Pack/Lazy-Newb-Pack-Linux has download links and the list of required debian packages. It was updates about 11 days ago, so it should be fairly recent
18:11<badargo__>zeta: thanks! i will check that out
18:11*mnuhmnuh lazy. newb. pack. omfg.
18:12<zeta>mnuhmnuh: it's exactly what it says on the tin
18:12<mnuhmnuh>what a century this is.
18:12<mnuhmnuh>future shock.
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18:13<badargo__>mnuhmnuh: thats the best game in history, it even has a book :P
18:14<badargo__>http://members.iinet.net.au/~morty/Getting_Started_with_Dwarf_Fortress.pdf
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18:16<badargo__>this link is faster http://down.ebook777.com/037/1449314945.pdf
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18:34<itd>dan24: err_empty calls 'poplocalvar err=...' after 'command local err=...'; err_not_empty does not call poplocalvar after 'local err=...'
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18:37<itd>dan24: This is part of a trace when running your script: https://paste.debian.net/hidden/2f9c26a9/
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18:39<itd>dan24: I would blame the pop in line 49. (Compare with the absent pop in line 6-7.)
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19:08<dan24>itd: that's great info, thanks
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19:39<mnuhmnuh>tornado warnings alberta, ca; ckua.com. drayton valley & etc. fwiw.
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20:00<abrotman>mnuhmnuh: wrong channel for that stuff
20:01<JohnyX>mnuhmnuh, Oh thanks. Not sure it gonna affect me in Nova Scotia... ;)
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20:11<mnuhmnuh>abrotman: disagree. stuff like that needs every shout it can find. eof.
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20:11<abrotman>mnuhmnuh: you're wrong, please keep it on-topic here.
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21:01<hthoreau>Good night.
21:01<hthoreau>Yesterday I installed apparmor following the instructions in the Debian Wiki: https://wiki.debian.org/AppArmor/HowToUse
21:03<hthoreau>I tested it for a while and it interfiered with my use of firejail and pulseaudio when using the Tor Browser.
21:03<hthoreau>So I purged it.
21:03<hthoreau>Deleating also the apparmor.cfg file the wiki asked me to create.
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21:05<hthoreau>Now, when I instar the computer I get a message along the lines of "[FAILED] Loading anonimyzing service over TCP / For more information check systemctl status tor@default.service"
21:06<hthoreau>when I start the*
21:06-!-Chikken [~chikken@152.156.215.197] has quit []
21:06<hthoreau>This is what I get: https://paste.debian.net/hidden/ad9c60be/
21:07<hthoreau>Now, I can't access debian's repositories through the tor network by running "apt update"
21:08<hthoreau>Though using the tor browser works just fine.
21:19<blast007>hthoreau: by apparmor.cfg, you mean the /etc/default/grub.d/apparmor.cfg file? did you run 'sudo update-grub' after removing that file?
21:20<hthoreau>I did not.
21:20<blast007>then it's still booting with those options enabled
21:21<hthoreau>I should've though of that, it's even one of the steps in the apparmor how-to. Thanks blast007.
21:22<hthoreau>I'll reboot now, see if it this is resolved.
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21:31<santista>oi
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21:34<hthoreau>blast007: Now there is a different error when running apt update: "Err:6 tor+http://vwakviie2ienjx6t.onion/debian stretch InRelease \ SOCKS proxy socks5h://localhost:9050 could not connect to vwakviie2ienjx6t.onion (0.0.0.0:0) due to: Host unreachable (6) [IP: 127.0.0.1 9050]"
21:38<hthoreau>Wait!
21:38<hthoreau>Got it. :D
21:38<hthoreau>K, thx, bai!
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22:11<prophetnite>ya know, i think its been like 10 years since i used IRC, and mIRC still LIVES!
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22:22<k000>whats is the meaning of "CPU_IOWAIT" on glances?
22:25<dvuk>Hello, I have recently switched from Ubuntu to Debian 9 stretch, I am wondering why I am always getting "All packages are up to date." whenever I issue "apt update". Is that normal behavior on Debian stable?
22:26<sney>yes
22:26<sney>as long as there are no updates, anyway
22:27<prophetnite>do i get shot for calling .... ubuntu? >_>
22:27<annadane>dvuk, package updates are "apt upgrade". apt update just means update the sources list
22:27<annadane>so if you edit your sources list you need to do apt update first so future packages will come from there; then apt upgrade for actual updates
22:29<dvuk>annadane, I know that, I just run "sudo apt update && sudo apt upgrade", I am wondering if it's normal that there are no updates for almost a month
22:31<annadane>what's your sources list? paste.debian.net
22:31<annadane>if you're on stable of course you'll get fewer updates, i'm not sure, i don't use stable
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22:34<dvuk>my sources.list http://paste.debian.net/976431
22:34<annadane>huh. i'm not sure. it seems ok to me
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22:41<sney>yep that's a normal sources.list. I think I've had 1 or 2 updates at the most since stretch went stable. it's normal.
22:42<sney>ubuntu "stable" releases update a lot more often
22:42<annadane>yeah, especially if you're coming from ubuntu it will seem different
22:42<annadane>ubuntu's based on testing
22:42<annadane>stable is... more permanent
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22:44<dvuk>ok, thank you sney and annadane, so far I like stable
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22:51<jmcnaught>dvuk: take a look at your /var/log/apt/history.log. It's possible that you have some sort of automatic upgrades happening.
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23:00<jmcnaught>So stretch does seem to have been doing automatic upgrades for me. For one thing, unattended-upgrades package was installed (as a recommend of a dependency of gnome-software). But also the apt package installs and enables apt-daily.{timer,service} and apt-daily-upgrade.{timer,service} units, and 'APT::Periodic::Unattended-Upgrade' was set to "1" in /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/20auto-upgrades.
23:00<jmcnaught>I'm not complaining, I'm just bringing it up for anyone watching, as a result of the above discussion.
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23:04<dvuk>jmcnaught: nothing automatic for me in that file, only manual installs. (I don't use "gnome software" though)
23:05<dvuk>APT::Periodic::Unattended-Upgrade is set to 1, however
23:05<dvuk>I don't know the systemd stuff you mentioned
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23:06<dvuk>I assume APT::Periodic::Unattended-Upgrade is about auto-installing security updates
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23:08-!-farsight is "ubuntu" on #debian
23:08-!-farsight [~farsight@182.148.34.139] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:12-!-Parzival [~Parziva11@207-47-166-73.swcr.hsdb.sasknet.sk.ca] has joined #debian
23:12-!-Parzival is "Parz1va11" on #debian
23:12<Parzival>hello, whats up
23:16-!-bounce [~bounce@47-32-148-68.dhcp.snlo.ca.charter.com] has joined #debian
23:16-!-bounce is "bounce" on #freedombox #https-everywhere #debian
23:17-!-Parzival [~Parziva11@207-47-166-73.swcr.hsdb.sasknet.sk.ca] has quit []
23:18<jmcnaught>dvuk: take a look at the 'systemctl status apt-daily-upgrade.service' (also 'journalctl -u apt-daily-upgrade.service' for a closer look at its logs)
23:24<jmcnaught>Okay, so apt.conf(5) says APT::Periodic is documented inside the script /usr/lib/apt/apt.systemd.daily, which says that APT::Periodic::Unattended-Upgrade only works if the unattended-upgrades package is installed
23:25-!-edeak [~edeak@a95-92-72-122.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #debian
23:25-!-edeak is "realname" on #debian #suckless
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23:40-!-fstd_ [~fstd@x4db5ee24.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #debian
23:40-!-fstd_ is "fstd" on #gentoo #linuxfs #gcc #awesome #oftc #vserver #suckless #osm #linode #debian #kernelnewbies
23:40-!-fstd [~fstd@x4db55225.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:40-!-fstd_ is now known as fstd
23:52-!-k000 [~k000@177.106.132.237] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
23:53-!-cruncher [~cruncher@00020ba0.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
23:53-!-dvuk [~dvuk@79.175.74.188] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
---Logclosed Fri Jul 14 00:00:11 2017