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#debian IRC Logs for 2017-07-20

---Logopened Thu Jul 20 00:00:19 2017
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01:20<dtw>k-man, probably "synclient TapButton1=1". See "synclient -l".
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01:27<AHMhdhd>hello?
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01:35<fdhdfdfh>hello
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02:52<k-man>dtw, thanks
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03:21<clement>hi
03:22<clement>hello. is anyone there?
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03:23<jm_>!ask
03:23<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
03:24<clement>how can i change the clock settings to show the month on lubuntu?
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03:24<null>hi
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03:24<clement>hi null
03:24<jm_>!ubuntuirc clement
03:24<dpkg>clement: This is not the Ubuntu help channel. Please do /server chat.freenode.net and then /join #ubuntu. If you are using XChat, you can right-click the following link and choose connect. irc://chat.freenode.net/ubuntu
03:24<clement>i'm new to irc
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03:25<Guest482>this is pretty cool
03:25<clement>ok
03:25<Guest482>my name was null
03:25<Guest482>what happened
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03:38<Maarten_>i have jessie+mate. i want to create a seperte but minimalistic backup of all files of the boot process upto but not including logging into a user account. i guess this would inludes /boot, /etc/lightdm, /etc/init.d and maybe /etc/init? am i still missing other stuff?
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03:49<Drzacek>Maarten_, what for?
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04:20<Maarten_>https://wiki.debian.org/BootProcess was an interested read, it mentions: /sbin/init, fstab, kernel modules (but not where they are located), decrypting hard-disks (but not which software is used to do decryption), /bin/mount, /etc/inittab (which doesn't exist on my box), /etc/rc0.d, /etc/rc1.d, /etc/rc2.d ,/etc/rc3.d, /etc/rc4.d, /etc/rc5.d, /etc/rc6.d, /etc/rcS.d
04:21<Maarten_>Drzacek: because i want to create a septate but minimalistic backup of all files of the boot process upto but not including logging into a user account.
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04:27<duclicsic>Maarten_: repeating your original statement verbatim doesn't answer Drzacek's question, and it's not going to inspire anyone here to help you
04:28<duclicsic>backing up the "boot process" doesn't really make sense, all kinds of software and config is involved in booting
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04:28<duclicsic>there's no easy way to pick exclusively those files involve in the boot process, you'd be better off just backing up the whole system minus maybe /home and /var for example
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04:32<Drzacek>I can think only of two reasons for such backup - 1) create a backup of all relevant CONFIGURATION files, so he could just copy over in new system (which probably will work on same DEBIAN version only)
04:33<Drzacek>or 2) he wants minimal linux running, stripped out of anything unrelated to boot, which is also not going to work, since beside grub+vmlinuz+initrd and init there is a wholelot more thats needed to make it run, a whole system I would say
04:33<Drzacek>or maybe 3) for sake of creating backups
04:34<Drzacek>in each of the cases, I can't really help
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04:38<Maarten_>duclicsic: sorry i dont understand. on irc it happens often the people skim over things not really reading the text.. i was under the impression that my question on getting that list already include my reason of why i want that list.. but basiclly the answer is that i should start deleting stuff that i think is not related to boot until system doesn't boot and this way manually figure out what is include? obviously this would work but would be kind of
04:38<Maarten_>tedious..
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04:40<duclicsic>WHY do you want to do this? what are you hoping to achieve?
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04:40<duclicsic>do you just want to be able to restore your system in the event of a problem?
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04:43<Maarten_>duclicsic: im sorry to iterate but i'm hopping to achieve the ability to making and minimal backup routine that will only include the described part of the boot process... (the rest will not be backup but "protected" by booting it to RAM)
04:44<grove>Maarten_: But what do you hope to achieve by getting such a backup routine?
04:46<jmcnaught>dpkg: xy problem
04:46<dpkg>Slow down for a bit! Are you sure that you need to jump through that particular hoop to achieve your goal? We suspect you don't, so why don't you back up a bit and tell us about the overall objective... We know that people often falsely diagnose problems because they are too close to them -- it's easy to miss that there is a better way to proceed. See http://mywiki.wooledge.org/XyProblem
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04:47<Drzacek>^ that
04:47<Maarten_>grove: well if i boot my whole system to ram then all changes will not persist on reboot. so if anyone wants to makes changes to the boot process thy will also be undone, wich i would like to avoid by use old fashion backups instead ....
04:48<duclicsic>you intend to copy your entire system into ram and run it from there on every boot?
04:48<Maarten_>duclicsic: yes
04:49<Maarten_>duclicsic: well, no... everything except the boot process.
04:50<Drzacek>Maarten_, not sure what changes would you like to do to "boot process", but you run whole system in RAM, leaving only /boot, and then maybe editing some boot parameters/commands there
04:50<Drzacek>I don't think it works as you think it does
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04:52<Maarten_>Drzacek: well this would not be inclusive enough... it should everything upto when you login.. for example if someone changes the ligtmd theme then that should also persist on next reboot.
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04:53<Drzacek>aren't those saven in user home dir?
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04:59<Maarten_>?? that would be strange if that would be true... turning on a box that has multiple users... if the display manager themes are not global but per user base, but the system doesn't know which user wants to login how would it know which themes it should display? actualy this was just an example ... the folder for the themes are in /usr/share/lightdm/
05:02<duclicsic>if you want to back up everything right up to and including the display manager settings, you are going to be much better off just backing up the whole base system as i said before. picking through which files are/aren't involved in the whole boot process is going to be next to impossible
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05:03<jmcnaught>or boot from a live disk using live-boot's toram feature
05:04<duclicsic>now there's a real solution
05:04<duclicsic>was going to suggest using systemd-nspawn to just fire up an ephemeral copy of the host system
05:05<duclicsic>but i've never tried it, so can't speak for how well it works
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05:06<lindi->http://lindi.iki.fi/lindi/git/ramroot.git/ is my personal project for creating installations that run from e.g. RAM. it's mostly intended for servers like DNS, DHCP, cups or firewall were you don't have much state and want to get high reliability
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05:07<lindi->if you SSH remotely to make changes you can save them to a separate snapshot and have grub attempt to boot that. If the boot fails it will use watchdog to automatically boot the previous working state so you don't ever risk losing remote access to the system
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05:10<Maarten_>jmcnaught duclicsic: well ye there are lots of ways on how to boot a non-persistent copy of you system... and also ways to exclude the boot process form being non-persistent... that is if i can figure out what which files that are...
05:11<Maarten_>lindi-: thank i will clone the git and have a look
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05:11<lindi->Maarten_: I don't think it really solves your problem though, I'm not really sure what your problem is :)
05:11<lindi->Maarten_: why are you doing this?
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05:16<Maarten_>lindi-: as a poor mans backup... this way we can have a reasonably well protected system, utilizing our unused ram and minimizing need for diskspace... i very much understand that this is not a end-all solution for veryone... but something i have to implement here....
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05:19<Maarten_>lindi-: btw, your git stuff.. for which version of debian is it made?
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05:24<lindi->Maarten_: backup of what?
05:25<Maarten_>lindi-: you project appears to be empty... nothing in http://lindi.iki.fi/lindi/git/ramroot.git/branches/ and i cant find a single script anyhere
05:25<lindi->Maarten_: you need to clone it
05:25<lindi->Maarten_: web browser is not the right tool for this
05:26<lindi->Maarten_: also Linux should automatically use all available RAM for speeding things up
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05:33<Maarten_>lindi-: oke... will do.. well basicly i dont do this for speed... we want to load whole system to ram to make all changes non-persisted... but we would like to exclude for being non-persisted all boot relates stuff... one might say, well as soon as you want to changes something to the boot process add it to the list non-persisted files and directories but that would be very undesirable for our situation so will like to build an exclude list in advance by
05:33<Maarten_>just adding to that list everything that is part of the process.
05:33<lindi->Maarten_: ok but why are you doing this?
05:33<lindi->Maarten_: is this a desktop system?
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05:34<Maarten_>lindi-: yes this is a desktop and the reason for doing this i mention on 11:16 'as a poor mans backup'
05:35<lindi->Maarten_: I still don't understand, are you trying to protect against mistakes made by the user?
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05:36<Maarten_>mostly by adminuser those who have permission to install stuff
05:36<lindi->Maarten_: why not make the backup to hard disk?
05:36<lindi->Maarten_: just restore the system to a known good state during boot from another partition?
05:37<lindi->Maarten_: I don't get why you'd want to use RAM for this
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05:38<lindi->Maarten_: just create three partitions, / /home and /backup. On bootup automatically restore / from /backup
05:38<lindi->Maarten_: then the only changes that are persistent will be to /home
05:39<lindi->Maarten_: you can even make /backup encrypted with some silly key if you want to discourage the admin from tampering with it :)
05:39<Maarten_>lindi-: that should like a good i idee, but it is not home but the boot process we like to make persistent
05:40<lindi->Maarten_: this will do it?
05:40<lindi->Maarten_: you can do this very easily with an initramfs hook
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05:43<Drzacek>Maarten_, will the user have writable /home?
05:43<Maarten_>lindi-: well the idee is to have most of the system be protected by making everything non-persistend but still allow all changes to boot process (because we keep backup of those files)
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05:44<Maarten_>Drzacek: yes home is writeable. it is on a separate partition that is not loaded into ram..
05:44<Drzacek>ah ok
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05:46<Maarten_>where on disk are all the kernel modules before the are loaded?
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05:50<Maarten_>https://wiki.debian.org/BootProcess mentions /etc/inittab but on my jessie i don't have it... and locate only finds /usr/share/terminfo/a/ansi+inittabs did it got renamed or replaced in jessie?
05:51<lindi->Maarten_: find / -name "*.ko"
05:51<lindi->Maarten_: inittab does not have anything to do with kernel modules
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05:53<Maarten_>lindi-: yes i know but the debian page says it plays a role int the bootprocess..
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05:53<lindi->Maarten_: it did but not really anymore
05:54<Maarten_>lindi-: ah oke good to know...
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05:56<jm_>Maarten: it was used with sysv init but not needed for systemd
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06:01<Maarten_>jm_: a oke i was curious about that because the /etc/rc<n>.d folders where also for sysv init but when i add my services to there it will still work...
06:02<lindi->Maarten_: systemd has a sysv unit generator to run them
06:02<jm_>Maarten_: yes, ut has a generator to handle them
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06:04<jm_>systemctl show systemd-sysv-generator
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06:05<Esteran>hi all
06:06<Esteran>anyone for a question on IPCop ?
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06:08<petn-randall>!ipcop
06:08<dpkg>IPCop is a Linux distribution providing a simple-to-manage stateful firewall using <Netfilter>. Originally a fork of <SmoothWall> by disillusioned developers. Not supported in #debian. http://www.ipcop.org/ #ipcop on irc.freenode.net.
06:08<petn-randall>Esteran: You can find their IRC channel there. ^^^
06:08<Esteran>thx ;)
06:09<Esteran>nice to see you
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06:16<Maarten_>lindi-: but you where mentioning that i could use a initramfs hook to write all changes to any part of the bootprocess to disk?
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06:19<techie28>Im trying to install Debian Stretch via Grub entry but it keeps on telling me to load the kernel first.
06:19<techie28>this is the menuentry I created http://paste.debian.net/977298/
06:20<techie28>the .ISO actually for netinst but I guess it should not be a problem?
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06:20<jm_>you don't specify initrd for such boot entries
06:21<jm_>and neither do you specify linux
06:21<techie28>just the ISO?
06:21<jm_>yes
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06:24<zeta>jm_: can grub even boot from the debian installer iso? last i heard there were some potential issues, but maybe that's just when using grub memdisk
06:25<jm_>zeta: I don't know, I only tried using grub-imageboot to boot grml image, but it did not work for me while grml-rescueboot works
06:25<techie28>(hd0,msdos2) I think this is also inaccurate? I do not have any other OS on my system
06:25<jm_>well where should grub load the ISO from then?
06:25<zeta>grub-imageboot is based on memdisk i believe
06:26<techie28>It is inside the system which I want to update
06:26<techie28>I hope its not a stupid thing to say
06:26<zeta>however this seems to be a different approach (loopback), which is interesting
06:27<jm_>why are you updating it using ISO boot?
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06:27<techie28>why not?
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06:27<zeta>it's a rather contrived way of updating a debian system
06:28<jm_>maybe step back and explain what you are trying to do
06:28<techie28>the ISO file is inside a directory of the my laptop which I want to update from Jessie to Stretch
06:28<jm_>you don't do that by booting from an ISO
06:29<techie28>Jessie I had was 32 bit and I m trying to go to Stretch 64 bits
06:29<techie28>is it not possible?
06:29<jm_>so you want to reinstall, not update?
06:29<techie28>ye
06:29<techie28>yes*
06:29<techie28>I downloaded a netinst image which is about 300 mb
06:29<techie28>290 MiB
06:29<jm_>well (hd0,msdos2) should specify a partition where the image is, followed by path to it in the FS
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06:31<techie28>generally I should have made a bootable USB Stick with that ISO and then boot from that right?
06:31<techie28>but I read somewhere that it is possible without that also
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06:31<techie28>which Im trying to do now
06:31<techie28>is it not correct way?
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06:32<jm_>yes, and yes, in general it is possible - there's also a way of converting from i386 to amd64, but ... see http://blog.calhariz.com/post/2017/07/16/Crossgrading-a-complex-Desktop-and-Debian-Developer-machine-running-Debian-9
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06:33<jm_>this system that I use for IRC has been converted to amd64 in a similar way quite a while ago
06:33<zeta>there's a wiki article too https://wiki.debian.org/CrossGrading
06:33<jm_>cool
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06:33<techie28>re install will make me loose all my current softwares too?
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06:33<jm_>yes
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06:33<jm_>well if you put it on the same file system that is
06:34<techie28>if I just replace the jessie in my sources list to stretch and then perform update?
06:34<techie28>it would be 32 bit again?
06:34<jm_>if you want to keep i386 and upgrade follow the instructions from release notes
06:34<jm_>yes
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06:35<techie28>no I want to update to 64 bit plus need the packages too .. :D
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06:35<jm_>mind you, 32bit is generally still OK unless you really have a reason to use 64bit apps, you can also use 64bit kernel with 32bit userland
06:35<bremner>well, except techie28 wants to use darktable
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06:35<bremner>which is 64 bit only
06:36<Blacker47>techie28, sure that you hardware is amd64 capable? if yes, why not installed 64-bit on the begining?
06:36<techie28>bremner remembers very well.
06:37<techie28>Blacker47, yes I got around 3 GB RAM with Intel core i3..I started with Wheezy that time I did not pay much attention to it
06:37<Blacker47>ok
06:38<techie28>I also read 32 bit is like a horse cart and 64 bit is like a car
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06:38<jm_>you read wrong
06:38<bremner>those kind of analogies are silly
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06:40<techie28>Blacker47, is that much config ok
06:40<petn-randall>It's more like 32 horse carts vs 64 horse carts.
06:40*petn-randall ducks.
06:41<bremner>part of the problem is that in debian, i386 is not just limited to 32 bit, but also limits the instruction set to no SSE (or no SSE2, I forget)
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06:42<jm_>techie28: you can save list of currently installed packages, see:
06:42<jm_>!package reinstall
06:42<jm_>!reinstall
06:42<dpkg>somebody said reinstall was aptitude reinstall '~i' ; or COLUMNS=200 dpkg -l | awk '/^[hi]i/{print $2}' | xargs apt-get -y --reinstall install, or dpkg --get-selections > my_packages.txt , then later, dpkg --set-selections < my_packages.txt && apt-get install . See also <aptitude clone>, <debian clone>.
06:42<jm_>the dpkg --get-selections thing
06:42<techie28>jm_ ok
06:42<zeta>bremner: i think SSE2 was introduced with i786
06:43*jm_ would like 786 :)
06:43<bremner>*shrug&
06:43<techie28>what would be a good reason to use 64 bit instead of 32?
06:43<jm_>techie28: if you want to run an app that needs a lot of memory
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06:43<bremner>techie28: as I just said, in debian i386 is more limited than just 32 bit versus 64 bit
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06:43<jm_>also if you want to run stuff that only exist for the amd64 arch is also a good reason
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06:47<techie28>just the darktable it was
06:47<techie28>did not really needed anything else which was 64 bit only
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06:50<bremner>only you can decide if it's worth the trouble.
06:50<bremner>certainly very few people should choose i386 for new installs
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06:51<bremner>my experience is that upstreams just don't test i386 very much anymore.
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07:15<daknob>Hello everybody.. Anyone knows why the "freeradius" package requires stuff like "adwaita-icon-theme", "gtk-update-icon-cache", "hicolor-icon-theme", "libtiff5", "lvm2", "libsoup-gnome2.4-1", "libxen-4.8", and "libvirt0"? It requires 180 packages to be installed here..
07:16<grove>!bat
07:16<dpkg>In order to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, apt or aptitude we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use http://paste.debian.net/ to provide us with this information. Also ask me about <localized errors>.
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07:19<grove>freeradius doesn't depend on all those packages, so apt/apt-get/aptitude is trying to do something else too. The output dpkg mentioned in that factoid is probably good, although I doubt we want to see the output of `apt-cache policy` on 180 packages, `aptitude why <pkg>` might also be good
07:19<daknob>https://paste.debian.net/hidden/92b180c2/
07:20<daknob>Oh thanks. One moment for aptitude why freeradius
07:21<daknob>https://paste.debian.net/hidden/acaad21f/
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07:22<jm_>possibly because of freeradius-utils, tried disabling installation of recommended packages?
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07:22<grove>It's probably more interesting to see `aptitude why ` for one of the packages freradius shouldn't depend on
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07:23<daknob>True
07:23<daknob>Let me see
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07:24<daknob>I have to mention that this happens on two machines, one using the debian 9 installer, one upgraded from jessie. Same packages.
07:25<daknob>Both machines are installed with only "ssh server" in the installer options, not even basic utilities
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07:27<grove>Then I think jm_ might be right
07:28<daknob>https://paste.daknob.net/view/a695274822bc8ccf81bd887f281547fd2364cf9c5281d389990fdf3d856e9a4b
07:28<daknob>So it seems that these are all installed because of `vim-gtk3`
07:28<daknob>Which has nothing to do with `freeradius`.
07:29<daknob>And this only happens when installing `freeradius`, not anything else like `apache2` or `nginx`.
07:30<grove>Which is yet another indication the jm_ might be right
07:31<daknob>https://paste.daknob.net/view/c72a2d0c4c86b840cf3a05d56482b7f494ce24f57b9f25d5b99d2d6531dbe6d9
07:31<daknob>Yeah
07:31<daknob>This is correct
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07:31<daknob>So `freeradius` recommends `freeradius-utils`, which recommends `collectd` and `libdbi-perl`.
07:32<jm_>yeah I think it's collectd pulling all that in
07:32<daknob>And I guess following the chain from there leads to all that.
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07:32<daknob>Thanks guys
07:32<jm_>you could test that hypothesis
07:32<grove>(This sort of "dependency" chains is why I disable installation of recommends, I really doubt freeradius will benefit in any way from lvm2)
07:32<daknob>Or an icon theme and a full GUI
07:32<daknob>Maybe some of that is a monitoring and graphing system for `freeradius` down the line..
07:32<daknob>Who knows..
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07:43<Blacker47>collectd → libnotify4 → notification-daemon → libgtk-3.0 → complete universe
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07:47<Blacker47>but it is not only libnotify4, collectd seems to recommend really a lot of things.
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07:51<Blacker47>sometimes too big to be clear: "debtree --condense collectd | dot -T png -o output.png" creates 81 Mpixel image. but you can just use the dot-file from debtree to see what dep leads to what package.
07:53<bremner>or use PDF output from dot ;)
07:54<bremner>at least you can zoom the pdf
07:54<Blacker47>this makes it better loadable by viewing programs, but not much better readable by user :-)
07:55<Blacker47>not tested, but maybe you can ctrl+f search in the pdf for package-name. that would be good.
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07:56<otieno>marble
07:56<otieno>hi
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08:00<Blacker47>i don't really know, but maybe collectd should be sugested and not recommend by freeradius-utils.
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08:25<petn-randall>Blacker47: There has probably been a discussion and justification about why collectd recommends this. And likely some user complain that collectd didn't work because X wasn't installed as recommends. What ends up in recommends or suggests is really a matter of taste.
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08:28<Blacker47>petn-randall, i mean, the freeradius-utils should not recommend collectd(-monster).
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08:31<petn-randall>Blacker47: Same applies there. I'd check the bug tracker and the package changelog. If there's no info, you can file a bug report with wishlist to downgrade from recommends to suggests.
08:31<Blacker47>and collectd may be splitt to -server and -client to start make sense on remote statistics metering...
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08:49<Nirgal>Hello. I have a few old scripts with links in /etc/rcS/ like S12firewall and so on. But these don't work any more after the upgrade to strech. Did any one encountered this here? Installing sysvinit-core fixes the issue, but I'm looking for a lighter solution. Any idea?
08:49<grawity>the lighter solution would be to port those to systemd .service units
08:50<grawity>systemd (231-1) unstable; urgency=low
08:51<grawity> * Drop support for rcS.d SysV init scripts.
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08:51<Nirgal>Doh! Ok, thank you any way
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09:11<smhar>which package has php mysqli extension?
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09:15<itd>smhar: php-mysql?
09:16<petn-randall>smhar: aptitude search 'php mysql'
09:17<grawity>apt-file search mysqli.so
09:25<smhar>grawity, apt-file search mysqli.so shows: php7.0-mysql: /usr/lib/php/20151012/mysqli.so
09:25<grawity>there you go
09:25<smhar>but I somehow have both php7 and php5 , and the web is using php5!
09:26<itd>smhar: php5 is not part of debian stretch.
09:29<itd>smhar: and AFAIK php7 is not part of jessie - what did you do?
09:30<smhar>itd, because this laptop has been getting updates since.... I don't even remember ... very long time ago
09:30<smhar>maybe I should just apt-get purge php5 packages?
09:31<itd>smhar: Depends on what you did, your goals and the current state of your system.
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09:32<smhar>my current system is quite stable. What I want to do is to setup a local LAMP to learn web development, specially Drupal; which supports php7 as I just checked
09:34<itd>smhar: Debian 'quite stable'?
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09:35<petn-randall>smhar: I would remove all old packages then, but apply common sense. Run 'aptitude purge ~o', and check the list it wants to remove before confirming.
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09:35<smhar>itd, stable but slow . .. it is an old machine
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10:33<Pepito>:)
10:35<Pepito>hello, anyone?
10:35<sazzletazzle>hi
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10:36<Pepito>hello sazzletazzle
10:37<sazzletazzle>what's up?
10:38<notafile>Hi, I'm having the issue again where pulseaudio doesn't start on login. I hacked a fix together last time, but I wondered what the "right" way of doing it would be
10:38<Pepito>i'm trying to install plasma 5.10 in debian stretch, it is possible???
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10:40<sazzletazzle>notafile: have you looked at whether it's enabled in systemd?
10:41<sazzletazzle>Pepito: if it's in the repo, yes. If not, you can compile it/install it.
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10:42<Pepito>thanks dude, but what repo?
10:42<notafile>sazzletazzle: well, I thought systemd won't help here, since it's not supposed to run at boot but at login
10:43<notafile>also, there is no pulseaudio unit file
10:45<sazzletazzle>Pepito: is you mean plasema-sdk from kde, main? i can see 5.8 there
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10:45<sazzletazzle>notafile: oh..oops waitup, let me see how it's done on my system
10:45<Pepito>i'm using 5.8.6 :)
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10:47<sazzletazzle>Pepito: if you absolutely can't wait, then you can install it from kde website. Even sid doesn't have it atm. You can ask the maintainer though..
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10:48<Pepito>thank you sazzletazzle!!
10:48<sazzletazzle>notafile: in /etc/pulse/client.conf, do you have autospawn= yes?
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10:49<sazzletazzle>Pepito: np
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10:50<sazzletazzle>Pepito: remember that if you're on stretch, you probably won't get it from the repo at this point
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10:51<Pepito>ok dude :)
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11:10<th3>hi ?
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11:13<smhar>i was trying to cancel apt-get remove a package with ctrl+C but was slow and now I keep getting errors removing, adding, or updating the system.. the error is: debconf: DbDriver "config": /var/cache/debconf/config.dat is locked by another process
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11:13<smhar>can I delete this file and apt update?
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11:14<smhar>subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 1
11:14<zie>hello
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11:43<smhar>a quick question: who should own /var/www and /var/www/html? and what should the permissions be?
11:44<sazzletazzle>www-data or whatever apache/nginx uses. Permissions may vary
11:45-!-ao2_ [~ao2@host174-212-dynamic.49-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #debian
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11:55<smhar>dbconfig-common
11:55<smhar>oops
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12:03<perseptole>hi. i have thunderbird restricted to be used by user2. can i as user1 still start it (graphically) in some way? when i click on its icon, nothing happens. when i try via terminal it says that the display couldnt be opened (obviously because wrong user)
12:04<perseptole>and actually, when i change to user2 and try to open thunderbird via command line, I also get the "cannot open display..." error
12:05<petn-randall>perseptole: How are you switching users?
12:06<perseptole>petn-randall: via su username
12:06<petn-randall>perseptole: use gksu (or gksudo) for that.
12:06<petn-randall>perseptole: Which OS release is this?
12:06-!-annadane [~annadane@mtrlpq5302w-lp130-03-70-24-211-34.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #debian
12:06-!-annadane is "realname" on #tor-project #tor-offtopic #tor #privacytech #debian-offtopic #debian-next #debian-mentors #debian-bugs #debian #debconf
12:06<perseptole>stretch
12:07<sazzletazzle>also try setting the display env variable
12:08<perseptole>petn-randall: neither gksu nor gksudo are installed and they require many extra programs to be installed; is that correct?
12:08<perseptole>sazzletazzle: will try, thx
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12:10<petn-randall>sazzletazzle: that won't help
12:11<petn-randall>perseptole: Yes, you need to install them.
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12:13<perseptole>yupp, setting the display variable didnt help, but gksu works fine. thanks petn-randall!
12:13<petn-randall>perseptole: you're welcome!
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12:14<master>HI
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12:18-!-debalance is "Philipp Huebner" on #debian-devel-changes #debian-kde #debian-qa #debian
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12:44-!-illwieckz is "Thomas DEBESSE" on #debianfr #debian-bugs #debian
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12:47<ping3x>where can I see the commits that where made on the debian version of qemu?
12:47-!-Nennala [~daphne@c-73-135-94-82.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
12:47<ping3x>A while back IIRC I could read the code on a git server some place
12:48<itd>ping3x: https://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/pkg-qemu/qemu.git
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12:49<ping3x>itd ah, thank you!
12:49<itd>ping3x: Patches are in debian/patches/
12:50-!-CEP-2015-Jessie [~cep2015@host229.186-125-127.telecom.net.ar] has joined #debian
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13:03-!-hacker is now known as Guest508
13:04<Guest508>hello
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13:04<Guest508>i want something special
13:05<petn-randall>Guest508: Don't we all?
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13:06<Guest508>i need more knowlede about parrot sec os
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13:08<petn-randall>!parrot
13:08<dpkg>Parrot OS (https://www.parrotsec.org/) is a security and penetration testing distribution. It is based on Debian testing, but it is not Debian and is not supported in #debian. Seek help in #parrot on irc.frozenbox.org or try the mailing lists at http://lists.parrotsec.org/listinfo. Also ask me about <based on debian>.
13:08-!-mustard [~mustard@i15-les02-th2-5-48-58-106.sfr.lns.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #debian
13:08-!-mustard is "mustard" on #debian
13:08<petn-randall>Well, staying in the channel more than a minute helps ...
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13:10<bremner>not clear ;)
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13:20-!-BrainError404 is now known as BrainError404^
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13:55<zeratul976>An attempted upgrade from Jessie to Stretch has messed up by system so much that I've lost Internet access: any command that needs Internet access fails with a message like "Temporary failure in name resolution". As a result, I cannot e.g. install new packages to try to recover my system. Is there something I can do to recover from this?
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13:57<itd>zeratul976: Are you able to ping e.g. example.org via its address 93.184.216.34?
13:58<zeratul976>itd: No, although I get a different error for that: "connect: Network is unreachable"
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14:03<itd>zeratul976: Are you connected via cable or wifi?
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14:03<zeratul976>itd: cable
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14:06<petn-randall>zeratul976: Did the upgrade complete without problems, or did you already get errors there?
14:07<itd>zeratul976: How did you configure your connection in the past (and what happens if you try that now)?
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14:08<zeratul976>petn-randall: "dist-upgrade" completed without problems, but after rebooting the X server would crash on startup (and still does, I'm stuck in terminal mode).
14:09<zeratul976>petn-randall: Then I ran "apt-get autoremove", and I think that's when the network stopped working. Perhaps it uninstalled a necessary package...
14:09<petn-randall>zeratul976: Did you go through the list of things it wanted to remove?
14:09<zeratul976>itd: I didn't configure anything previously - I plugged in the cable and it "just worked".
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14:10<zeratul976>petn-randall: The "dist-upgrade", or the "autoremove"? Both of them removed many things (I thought that was normal).
14:10<kpcyrd>hey, I've installed a fresh debian stable with nodm and i3, for some reason I'm running into an issue when I `systemctl start nodm`. i3 appears and there's the dialog to generate the config, but the keyboard doesn't work anymore, I can't switch back to tty1 and have to do a hard reboot
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14:11<petn-randall>zeratul976: Indeed, but it's always a good thing to pay attention what it removes. I'm guessing network-manager got removed, and you might have used that to configure the network.
14:11<itd>zeratul976: You could try to configure it manually: https://wiki.debian.org/NetworkConfiguration#Setting_up_an_Ethernet_Interface
14:11<petn-randall>zeratul976: You could probably use ifupdown to get Ethernet working again, and reinstall most things.
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14:13<zeratul976>petn-randall: Well this is curious. "apt-get install network-manager" worked (where did it install it from?), and after that Internet is working again!
14:14<jmcnaught>zeratul976: you got lucky and had a copy of the package(s) in /var/cache/apt/archives
14:14<petn-randall>zeratul976: Oh nice, you can debug it easier from here.
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14:15<jmcnaught>zeratul976: it sounds like you do not have the meta packages installed for your desktop environment. You may want to install "task-gnome-desktop" or the task package for your DE to get it all installed again
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14:21<zeratul976>jmcnaught: Indeed, after installing "kde-standard", things seem to be working again.
14:21<zeratul976>Thanks all for your help!
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14:23<petn-randall>zeratul976: Glad it worked out for you. You're welcome!
14:23<jmcnaught>zeratul976: so what may have happened is at some point while jessie was installed you removed a package that kde-standard (or another metapackage) depends on, which forced the removal of the metapackage. Then when you ran "apt-get autoremove" all of the packages thad had been installed automatically as dependencies of the metapackage were removed
14:24<jmcnaught>zeratul976: you can avoid this by not removing packages that also remove metapackages, or if you do remove metapackages than use "apt-mark manual …" to set those automatically installed packages to manual so that "apt-get autoremove" doesn't want to remove them
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14:26<zeratul976>jmcnaught: Quite possible. When I first tried "dist-upgrade", I got some errors of the form "The following packages have unmet dependencies: X breaks Y but Z is to be installed", and had to remove some packages manually to get dist-upgrade to start.
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14:29<zeratul976>jmcnaught: I'm not really sure what the proper solution to errors like that is. I read over the Jessie release notes but didn't see errors like that addressed anywhere.
14:29<zeratul976>er, Stretch release notes
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14:37<jmcnaught>zeratul976: usually problems like that result from non-Debian packages/repos, but it's impossible to say now since you've upgraded and therefore changed a bunch of stuff what your issue was earlier
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14:51<kpcyrd>is there a package containing xlock? I couldn't find any
14:52<mufflon>https://packages.debian.org/cgi-bin/search_packages.pl?keywords=xlock&searchon=names&subword=1&version=all&release=all
14:52<mufflon>sudo apt install lxlock
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14:52<mufflon>kpcyrd: ^
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14:54<annadane>also apt-cache search xlock
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15:12<badargo>hey
15:12<badargo>why i cant see group sudo when i type id?
15:13<rudi_s>badargo: Because you're not in that group!?
15:14<badargo>but i added myself
15:14<badargo>i loged as super user and usermod -ag sudo badargo
15:14<rudi_s>badargo: Did you logout and login again after doing that? Existing processes don't inherit new groups.
15:15<badargo>i will do that then, brb
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15:17<badargo>rudi_s: thanks!
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15:18<rudi_s>np
15:19<itd>Shouldn't one execute 'usermod -aG sudo "${USER}"'? (That is: s/g/G/)
15:20<badargo>usermod -aG sudo user worked for me
15:20<badargo>badargo@debian:~$ grep badargo /etc/passwd
15:20<badargo>badargo:x:1000:1000:Badargo,,,:/home/badargo:/bin/bash
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15:20<badargo>if my id is 1000, why its listed 2 times and whats the x about?
15:21-!-f10 [~flo@ip5b40643f.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:21<rudi_s>badargo: x is just a placeholder, the first 1000 is your uid, the second your primary group id.
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15:21<rudi_s>And yeah, that should be -aG, not sure how -ag works.
15:22<badargo>i misspelled :P
15:22<dtw>Or simply: adduser $user $group
15:23<qxt>bit strange I cant see to find /dev/dri and the renders that should be there. glxinfo shows I have OpenGL version string: 3.0 Mesa 13.0.6
15:24<rudi_s>(The x placeholder was originally the hashed passphrase which is now stored in /etc/shadow.)
15:24<qxt>Is there something that needs to be installed to get those devices?
15:28<qxt>rudi_s, g means the groups has to exist. sudo usermod -a -G sudo someguy would add you to ie sudo group in a sane way
15:28<badargo>i need to google whats a place holder
15:29<badargo>Something used or included temporarily or as a substitute for something that is not known or must remain generic; that which holds, denotes or reserves a place for something to come later.
15:29<rudi_s>badargo: Yeah. You need something in that place because the format is delimited on the colons so you can't just omit it. So they chose x as a replacement which does nothing.
15:30<rudi_s>And the x is just a marker for "look in the shadow".
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15:30<badargo>and whats a hashed password?
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15:31<badargo>a password with a hash?
15:32<dtw>Not the actual password but its hash. Like: echo my_password | md5sum
15:32<qxt>echo yourpassword |sha256sum
15:32<rudi_s>The idea is that you can't get the original password from the hash so an attacker who gets his hands on the /etc/shadow can't guess your password.
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15:33<rudi_s>(The reality is a little more complex and salts are used to help against attacks - still not perfect though. There are better ways, but the don't apply to /etc/shadow in most cases as those aren't stolen very often and almost nobody has an account on UNIX machine anyway anymore.)
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15:34<dtw>"hash" stands for cryptographic hash (function)
15:34<badargo>ohhhhh
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15:36<badargo>so a program encrypt a password into a hashed password and to get the password u need to unhash it ? :P
15:36<Blacker47>unhash :-D
15:37<dtw>It's SHA512 on my system, probably yours too. :-)
15:37<itd>badargo: A hash function is a "one-way" function. It is *hard* to reverse it (to "unhash" its result).
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15:39<qxt>badargo, its a one way process that represents your password. Only (unless collisions) will make that sting. Looking at the sting it is close to reverse engineer it back to your password.
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15:39<jmcnaught>badargo: you can't get the password once it has been hashed. when a user authenticates the password they enter is hashed again, and that hash is compared to the one on record.
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15:40<qxt>close to impossible* excuse my retarded typing if you can.
15:41<badargo>so if someone write an app that can de-hash passwords he should be either a rich or dead man huh :P
15:41<badargo>or both
15:42<badargo>wait... dead ppl cant be rich after they die... damn details
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15:44<qxt>badargo, can play around with hashes if you want. echo somepassword |sha256sum
15:44<yetoo>Where can I go to ask about a package which has no source?
15:44<badargo>so badargo:x:1000:1000:Badargo,,,:/home/badargo:/bin/bash
15:44<badargo> ---:> user name:gehashed passphrase:user is:group id: group name?
15:44<yetoo>*no source in the debian ftp server
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15:45<qxt>yetoo, in the Debian repos??
15:45<itd>yetoo: Which one?
15:45<badargo>so badargo:x:1000:1000:Badargo,,,:/home/badargo:/bin/bash
15:45<badargo> ---:> user name: gehashed passphrase: user is: group id: group name?
15:45<yetoo>libgit2-glib-1.0
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15:45<dtw>badargo, "man 5 passwd"
15:45<yetoo>I try to do build-dep but it says that its unable to find a source package
15:45<andrewsbr>hello boys!
15:46<itd>yetoo: Did you add a src line to your sources?
15:46<yetoo>its all there
15:47<yetoo>I can get the sourc eof other packages, but not this one
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15:49<yetoo>Even https://packages.debian.org/source/sid/libgit2-glib doesn't list source packages
15:49<yetoo>I would need to speak with gnome about this right?
15:49<itd>yetoo: You are on stretch, right? :)
15:49<qxt>apt-get source yourpkg IIRC will give you the source
15:50<jmcnaught>yetoo: "apt-cache show libgit2-glib-1.0 | grep Source" shows libgit2-glib as the source package. What was the command that you used that failed?
15:50<yetoo>I'm on a mix between sid and buster
15:50<badargo>rudi_s: so the meaning of badargo:x:1000:1000:Badargo,,,:/home/badargo:/bin/bash
15:50<badargo> ---:> user name: gehashed passphrase: user id: group id: group name?
15:50<jmcnaught>yetoo: you should be in #debian-next then
15:51<yetoo>sudo apt-get build-dep libgit2-glib-1.0
15:51<dtw>badargo, "man 5 passwd"
15:51<badargo>ohhh i see
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15:51<arand>When I do "host -t soa local." an entry is given for localhost. root.localhost, is this normal? and if so, why?
15:51<badargo>i thoug u meant password :P
15:51<yetoo>I'll go to debian-next after I speak to devian-gnome
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15:56<badargo>ohhhhhh
15:56<badargo>dtw: most conf files have a man page like that?
15:56<ach>yes
15:57<dtw>badargo, man category 5 is for fileformats.
15:57<badargo>thats rly nice!
15:57<dtw>See "man man" also.
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16:00<badargo>so i dont need to log in sudo group with newgrp nor give it a pass with gpasswd to issue sudo commands?
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16:04<badargo>and sudo means =super user do
16:04<badargo>noice
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16:07<badargo>if i log in another group like group zebra and using newgrip zebra. then i save a file in my home directory
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16:07<badargo>that file will be in my home but wont be accessible if im in my primary group?
16:08<Maarten_>when doing a: systemctl list-dependencies multi-user.target some of the listed dependnecies are listed red... i guess that it means that those will be loaded but not activated... so than im wondering why it would want to load stuff that it doesn't plan to actvate?
16:09<badargo>Maarten_: o/
16:09<Maarten_>badargo: hai
16:09<ach>o/
16:09<annadane>\o
16:09<jmcnaught>marques: which ones are red? did you run "systemctl status …" on them?
16:10<ach>for my use it is less secure
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16:14<Maarten_>jmcnaught: https://pastebin.com/Gw8ZQsUt
16:16<jmcnaught>Maarten_: all of those are red? there's no colour in your paste. Also maybe you could stop using pastebin, and start using http://paste.debian.net/ for future pastes? pastebin has ads and sometimes forces people to enter captchas
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16:18<Maarten_>oke sure will use that pastbin nextime... (maybe good idee to ad the link to the top capture of this chanel?) i deleted all the green once form the list, these are most but not all of the red ones
16:18<DragomirPazura_>I've installed pulseaudio-equalizer from debian repo, however it doesn't work
16:18<DragomirPazura_>any clues to make it work or replacement package?
16:19<itd>DragomirPazura_: "doesn't work" means what?
16:19<annadane>!doesn't work
16:19<dpkg>"Doesn't work" is a vague statement. Does it sit on the couch all day long? Does it procrastinate doing the dishes? Does it beg on the street for change? Please be specific! Define 'it' and what it isn't doing. Give us more details so we can help you without needing to ask basic questions like "what's the error message?". Ask me about <smart questions>, <sicco> and <errors>.
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16:20<DragomirPazura_>no icon for entering it in menu, typing name of app doesn't open it either
16:20<jmcnaught>Maarten_: start with the first one on the list. what does "systemctl status anacron" say?
16:20<Maarten_>jmcnaught: but if i understand you right, they did not on purpuse added inactive stuff, but all loaded stuff should also be activated and i should try to figure out why it does ... oke one momnet will do the status thingy
16:20<itd>DragomirPazura_: "/usr/bin/qpaeq" is part of that package - did you try to execute that?
16:21<DragomirPazura_>jmcnaught, http://paste.debian.net/977403/
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16:22<Maarten_>jmcnaught: systemctl status anacron: Loaded: not-found (Reason: No such file or directory), Active: inactive (dead)
16:22<itd>DragomirPazura_: Well done, but that was not for you.
16:22<DragomirPazura_>oh right
16:22<badargo>hey, what exactly is an empt file created with touch? can u open and edit it with any software?
16:23<DragomirPazura_>itd, idk even how to do it
16:23<DragomirPazura_>run qpaeq in terminal?
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16:23<itd>DragomirPazura_: Yes.
16:24<DragomirPazura_>I get this: There was an error connecting to pulseaudio, please make sure you have the pulseaudio dbus module loaded, exiting...
16:24<itd>badargo: An empty file. Yes.
16:24<DragomirPazura_>command for check?
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16:25<jmcnaught>Maarten_: what does "apt-cache policy anacron" say?
16:25<itd>DragomirPazura_: No, but try 'pactl load-module module-dbus-protocol' and then again 'qpaeq'.
16:26<DragomirPazura_>opened
16:26<DragomirPazura_>thanks
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16:27<Maarten_>jmcnaught: summurize it states: installed 100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
16:28<jmcnaught>Maarten_: please don't summarize for me, make a paste
16:29<DragomirPazura_>itd, do I have to log out to see changes in sound after tweaking or is it still not working?
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16:29<Maarten_>jmcnaught: http://paste.debian.net/977407/
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16:31<jmcnaught>Maarten_: anacron is installed, but "systemctl status anacron" tells you its "not-found"… so what did you do with anacron.service, is it still in /lib/systemd/system?
16:31<itd>DragomirPazura_: No idea how it works (/what it does).
16:32<DragomirPazura_>i'll reboot and see what happens
16:32<Maarten_>jmcnaught: yes, i found it, still there...
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16:33<jmcnaught>Maarten_: can I see the full output of "systemctl status anacron" then?
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16:38<Maarten_>? that was the full output ... oh the first one had a typo, that was why it didnt found it... new one http://paste.debian.net/977410/
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16:38<DragomirPazura_>itd, after reboot module got unloaded again, qpaeq still does nothing while I swipe bars
16:39<DragomirPazura_>after I reloaded module
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16:40<jmcnaught>Maarten_: right, so now it is telling you why anacron didn't run last time, because your AC was not plugged in. anacron will try again. Next look at the next red unit from your "systemctl list-dependencies …" command
16:41<Maarten_>is there a way to display all inactive services only?
16:41<itd>DragomirPazura_: You probably have to modify /etc/pulse/default.pa to load that module on pulseaudio start by default.
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16:41<itd>DragomirPazura_: What would you expect to happen?
16:42<Maarten_>jmcnaught: then i can make a loop to print all the status to file and past them all at once...
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16:42<jmcnaught>Maarten_: systemctl has a --state= option
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17:17<brunoramos>Hello, is netinst the smallest debian iso available?
17:18<blast007>brunoramos: can you provide some more context to this question?
17:18<badargo>netinst is probably internet installation, the name they gave the file hes looking at :P
17:18<blast007>I there there is smaller install media than the netinst ISO
17:18<badargo>tho thats a wild guess :P
17:19<brunoramos>Official netinst images for the stable release
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17:20<brunoramos>netinst is the name debian.org refers to the net install image
17:20<blast007>brunoramos: what I mean is, why are you wondering? do you have a need for something smaller?
17:20<brunoramos>ah :)
17:20<brunoramos>I was looking to a debian based image for containers and the like
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17:21<sashpta>was someone able to install mysql-server on debian 8? i always get this: https://hastebin.com/ayesaxeqej.vbs
17:21<badargo>acording to https://www.debian.org/distrib/netinst
17:21<blast007>brunoramos: to use as the host of the containers, or for the contents of the containers?
17:21<badargo>these are the smallest images yes
17:22<badargo>tho ubuntu mini iso is 50 mb or so
17:22<brunoramos>blast007, for the content of the containers... maybe I can do something with debootstrap :/
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17:23<blast007>I've not done much with containers. Do some of the orchestration platforms handle creating the containers for you?
17:23<jmcnaught>sashpta: "/msg dpkg bat" for troubleshooting information to provide
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17:23<jmcnaught>brunoramos: i use debootstrap to make containers
17:24<brunoramos>jmcnaught, any good reference material on how to get to do that?
17:24<jmcnaught>sashpta: oh i see you are also on freenode. please don't cross post like that.
17:24<brunoramos>blast007, yes. But I see that the container community is going for alpine as de facto standard... I was looking to get something debian based :)
17:25<jmcnaught>brunoramos: what container system are you using?
17:25<sashpta>jmcnaught, oh the one on freenode wasn't listed on debian.org so i thought they are not 'connected'
17:26<brunoramos>jmcnaught, I'm using docker images and at the same time setting up Rancher server with Rancher OS clients. Was wondering if there was some good reference materials for debian base containers.
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17:27<jmcnaught>sashpta: it's considered rude to ask your question in multiple places at the same time. Why should we spend time answering your questions that have already been answered elsewhere? Also you start trying suggestions from the other channel that some people here can't see, and it gets very confusing. In the future, please only ask in one place at a time, respect other people's time.
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17:27<badargo>hey guys access modes are 4 or r, 2 or w, 1 or x, 0 or - . concerning chmod for directories 7 = rwx, 6 = rw, 5 =r and 0 =- while chmod for files is 6 = rwx, 5 = rw, 4 = r and 0 = - ?
17:28<badargo>i mean those chmode codes...
17:29<jmcnaught>brunoramos: give debootstrap a try then. also look at mkosi
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17:29<brunoramos>jmcnaught, thanks. I will do.
17:30<jmcnaught>brunoramos: i dislike docker and have never heard of rancher, but i have been using debootstrap with systemd-nspawn a lot recently
17:30<badargo>no im wrong :S
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17:32<badargo>ok chmod number are 7, 6, 5, 4 and 0. 7 means rwx, 6 means rw, 5 means r, 0 means -
17:32<badargo>what does 4 mean?
17:33<sashpta>jmcnaught, oh alright, sry
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17:34<jmcnaught>badargo: 4 is read. 2 is write. 1 is execute. 4 + 2 is read + write. 4 + 1 is read + execute. Execute means enter or browse for directories
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17:34<jmcnaught>badargo: so 7 is 4 + 2 + 1 or read + write + execute, see how it works now?
17:34<brunoramos>jmcnaught, can you control resources with systemd-nspawn like you do with standard LXC? CPU, memory, etc...
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17:35<badargo>ohhh
17:35<jmcnaught>brunoramos: yeah and it is really well integrated with systemd (which can also set those limits for services and other things)
17:35<badargo>but theres chmod 400 file and chmod 644 file
17:37<jmcnaught>badargo: in the number 644 the first digit is for the file owner, the second digit is for the group, the third digit is everyone else. So 644 means owner has read+write, group has read, all have read.
17:37<brunoramos>jmcnaught, cool. I'll take a look at that.
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17:39<jmcnaught>brunoramos: "cd /var/lib/machines ; debootstrap --include=dbus stretch ./mycontainer http://deb.debian.org/debian" to make a container. You can run it with "systemd-nspawn -D /var/lib/machines/mycontainer" or with "machinectl start mycontainer". As long as the container uses systemd as init and has dbus installed, on the host you can also do stuff like "systemctl -M mycontainer" and "journalctl -M mycont
17:39<jmcnaught>ainer". Check the man pages for the ...
17:39<jmcnaught>... commands I used.
17:39<brunoramos>ah, nice
17:40<jmcnaught>if you use systemd-networkd and systemd-resolved on both host and guests, then you get pretty easy networking between them too
17:40<badargo>but if chmod 7 = 4 + 2 + 1 (rwx), and chmod 6 = 4 + 2 (rw) what 5 and 4 mean?
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17:41<badargo>theres no chmode 222
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17:42<badargo>chmod rrr would is chmod 444, i think
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17:42<badargo>but acording to this explanation it would be chmode 111 instead :P
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17:43<jmcnaught>badargo: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_system_permissions#Notation_of_traditional_Unix_permissions
17:43<ryouma>badargo: try it on a piece of paper a few times, or stop using numbers. just do the symbols.
17:44<ryouma>chmod can use symbols
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17:48<badargo>jmcnaught: thankss
17:49<badargo>ryouma: yes i dont have paper so i was messing up :P
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17:51<annadane>jmc, you're a wizard :P
17:51<badargo>111 xxx 222 www 333 wxwxwx 444 rrr 555 rxrxrx 666 rwrwrw 777 rwxrwxrwx 000 --- :P
17:51<badargo>i can speak nerdishhhhhhhhh
17:53<badargo>so if i want chmode to make this file an executable there are ways of doing it. chmod file +x and chmod file +1 ?
17:54<badargo>2 ways*
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17:54<badargo>ops
17:54<badargo>its wrong :S
17:54<badargo>chmod +x file and chmod +1 file?
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17:58<badargo>and if i want fo make file 744 its chmod u+rwx, go+rr ?
17:58<badargo>i mean chmod 744
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17:59<badargo>can i type chmod + 744 file?
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18:00<badargo>or chmode 744 file? 0.o
18:00<badargo>ew chmod 744*
18:01<badargo>what if i sudo chmod 000 /*
18:01<badargo>???
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18:09<sbgrett>new http://y6kp5quzkxvztna5.onion/student-nuttiness
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18:42<captaindoggo>hello, anyone know how i can safely remove apparmor? I would like to use selinux instead. Would it just be fine to apt remove apparmor apparmor-policies etc?
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19:11<badargo>hey
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19:11<badargo>yooooo
19:12<badargo>why chmod +rwx a 000 file will turn it into a 751?
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19:13<bremner>umask
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19:21<badargo>bremner: why umask is interfiring with the permissions of files that already exist ?
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19:22<rjsalts>badargo: read the man page of chmod -> If none of these are given, the effect is as if (a) were given, but bits that are set in the umask are not affected.
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19:26<badargo>if chmod +x a 000 file it should become 111, but if i chmod +rwx the same file it becomes 751, this looks like a bug
19:27<badargo>but i will read man chmod then i guess :P
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19:32<badargo>rjsalts: cant make up whats that :S
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19:38<blast007>badargo: you're not telling it to apply to user (u), group (g), other (o), and/or all (a), so the umask bits affect it. that's what the chmod man page says.
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19:44<badargo>blast007:
19:44<badargo>well
19:45<badargo>if i chmod = file umask bits or whatever dont mess up
19:45<badargo>but if i chmod =x file then umask fucks up
19:45<badargo>how the bits of umask and what are they doing here? 0.o
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19:47<blast007>the man page covers that
19:49<badargo>where?
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19:57<blast007>in the one spot where it talks about umask
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20:04<badargo>blast007: i supose bits dont mean small parts of the umask, also its not bits that measure the size of the umask
20:04<badargo>so
20:04<badargo>whats that mannn
20:05<badargo>i found some page talking about binary numbers
20:05<badargo>is that what it means by bits?
20:06<badargo>ew
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20:36<angelgen>hi... how to install ... mate enviroment from xcfe enviroment ??
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20:44<Nemoder>isn't there a mate-desktop package?
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20:48<angelgen>my debian is 8.8 xcfe .... need change to mate
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20:50<Rory>I have a problem with the TI SilverLink: TILP Will not detect it
20:50<badargo>blast007: acording to the man page
20:50<badargo>when i input (u), (g), (o) or (a) the binary digits in the umask are not affected, but when i input nothing it works as if (a) was input but umask binary values wont be affected
20:50<badargo>acording to this, chmod either affects or not affects the binary values of umask
20:50<badargo>so it behaves in 2 manners
20:50<badargo>wait that was wrong :S
20:51<badargo>if chmod (u) (g) (o) (a) it affects the binary values of umask
20:52<badargo>if chmod () it works as chmod (a) but wont affect the binary values of umask
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20:56<rjsalts>badargo: other way around, chmod doesn't affect umask at all, umask affects chmod if you leave ugoa off the target selection in a symbolically represented chmod command
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21:04<badargo>rjsalts: so if i chmod ugoa+, ugoa- or ugoa= the result will be literally what I type after = (rwx, rw, rx, rx, wx, x) no matter what the umask value. umask doesnt mean crap
21:05<badargo>but if i type chmod = ... then some crazy operation concerning the binary digit values set in the umask will not affect them and return some crazy binary shit
21:06<badargo>that will be symbolically translated (rwx)
21:06<badargo>ewwwwwwwwwwww
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21:19<blast007>badargo: you just need 'a' if you're going to use 'ugo'
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21:31<Guest533>hi
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21:39<Guest533>game on!
21:39<jmcnaught>Guest533: hello. do you have a Debian question?
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21:40<Guest533>yess, i cant open wpa2 wifi :(
21:41<jmcnaught>Guest533: how are you configuring your wifi?
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21:54<Deoxys_>hola
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23:42<k-man>how do i find the right product name of my touchpad so i can match it in xorg.conf.d/whatever.conf under the MatchProduct ?
23:42<k-man>or what should I match it with?
23:42-!-edeak [~edeak@a95-92-72-122.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #debian
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23:43<edeak>!paste
23:43<dpkg>Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use: http://paste.debian.net/ http://pastie.org/ or http://picpaste.com/ for pics. Use wikisend.com for large files (think tar.gz) up to 100MB. Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <wgetpaste>.
23:44<k-man>xinput lists it as DLL07BF:01 06CB:7A13 Touchpad
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23:45<k-man>oh, i think that is the full name
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23:59<k-man>nm worked it out
23:59<k-man>synaptic driver was also loading
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---Logclosed Fri Jul 21 00:00:20 2017