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#debian IRC Logs for 2017-07-28

---Logopened Fri Jul 28 00:00:01 2017
---Daychanged Fri Jul 28 2017
00:00-!-linuxmodder_ [~Corey84@ip-64-134-99-219.public.wayport.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:01<petn-randall>csh: I see, then it's the right channel. I don't know the answer, though.
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00:02<jmcnaught>xyzone: and you told it "bat"? indeed if you run "apt-cache depends nvidia-vulkan-common" it shows libgl1-nvidia-glx as a conflict. I suggest you look in the doc directory for the various nvidia packages for a README, NEWS or changelog that explains why
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00:03-!-kmshanah_ is "Kevin Shanahan" on #debian
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00:05<xyzone>I don't care much for the reason. I'm sure it's a good one, but the upgrade still broke things instead of doing it all automatically.
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00:06<xyzone>here is the solution: uninstall manually 'libgl1-nvidia-glx'
00:07<xyzone>oh
00:08<xyzone>nevermind, spoke too soon, that is no solution. it's just broken as I said. no vulkan in multiarch
00:08<jmcnaught>it's not just multiarch
00:08<jmcnaught>#864477
00:08<judd>Bug http://bugs.debian.org/864477 in nvidia-vulkan-common (open): «nvidia_icd.json does not refer to correct library when non-GLVND driver variant is installed»; severity: normal; opened: 2017-06-09; last modified: 2017-06-30.
00:09<jmcnaught>there's a note about it in the changelog of one of the nvidia packages (probably -common)
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00:10<xyzone>I don't normally deal with nvidia. first time in a long time.
00:11<csh>petn-randall, I figured out how to select items: the x key
00:11<csh>but now idk how to go backward lol
00:12<jmcnaught>judd: conflicts nvidia-vulkan-common
00:12<judd>Package nvidia-vulkan-common in stretch/amd64 -- conflicts: libgl1-nvidia-glx.
00:12<csh>so i just press ESC if i go to deep into a menu and restart the pogram
00:12<jmcnaught>xyzone: of course, because the nvidia drivers are closed source Debian is not as able to fix problems with them as is possible with open source software
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01:23<k-man>i have a file on /etc/cron.hourly called 000loaddelay is that a debian thing? or maybe something put there by my vps
01:26<Drzacek>k-man, check content
01:26<Drzacek>(I don't have such file on my system)
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01:27<grawity>check also `dpkg -S /etc/cron.hourly/000loaddelay`
01:27<k-man>Drzacek, its something to delay cron.hourly a bit, i'm guessing put there by the vps host provider so not all debian installs run hourly at the same moment
01:27<k-man>not found. thanks
01:28<k-man>http://sprunge.us/SKZA
01:28<k-man>its got a bug in it though
01:29<grawity>possible; they should have done it through the main cronjob that processes cron.hourly though
01:30<k-man>maybe
01:30<k-man>anyway, they say it is theirs
01:30<k-man>its broken on my system and reports an error
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03:49<tete>人呢。
03:50<itd>dpkg: zh
03:50<dpkg>如果您想要以中文得到 Debian 相關的協助,請加入 irc.debian.org 或 irc.oftc.net 上的 #dot 頻道,連線與加入頻道的方法請參閱 IRC 程式之相關說明,或於網路上搜尋。謝謝您的合作!
03:50<swagner>hi, can i upload kernel stacktraces(NULL pointer dereference) somewhere if it is "Tainted: G"?
03:51<tete>oh, sorry, I dont know here are english.
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03:58<itd>tete: No problem. Should you have a question, just ask. :)
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04:21<philix>Hey there, is there a suggested channel/method to ask for help upgrading an apt package from jessie to stretch, it's not mine, but I do like and use it so would like to see it brought forward if possible
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04:22<ach>apt-get update and then apt-get upgrade
04:23<ach>but then you upgrade all
04:23<tete>why those message can be not synchronization between hexchart and irssi.
04:24<itd>philix: Which package are you talking about?
04:25<philix>ach, it's not in the stretch repo
04:25<philix>itd, the package is the music player guayadeque
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04:26<ach>you could make it for stretch but don't ask me
04:27<ach>if the source is availible
04:27<jmcnaught>#810251
04:27<judd>Bug http://bugs.debian.org/810251 in ftp.debian.org (closed, sid): «RM: guayadeque -- RoQA; dead upstream; depends on gstreamer 0.10»; severity: normal; opened: 2016-01-07; last modified: 2016-03-01.
04:27<itd>philix: That package was removed but there is a RFP: #850685
04:27<judd>Bug http://bugs.debian.org/850685 in wnpp (open): «RFP: guayadeque -- lightweight music player»; severity: wishlist; opened: 2017-01-09; last modified: 2017-02-02.
04:28<philix>itd: oh thanks, that's great
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04:28<philix>judd: thanks
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04:38<itd>philix: I did not see an ITP. So, if you want to use that program you could try to build the new debian package yourself.
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04:42<itd>philix: Join #debian-mentors and ask there if you would like to do that but need help.
04:43<grove>But if the project is dead upstream, it might be better to look for an alternative, it might still be simple to package it, but it will likely only get harder
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04:44<itd>grove: #850685 claims it's not.
04:44<judd>Bug http://bugs.debian.org/850685 in wnpp (open): «RFP: guayadeque -- lightweight music player»; severity: wishlist; opened: 2017-01-09; last modified: 2017-02-02.
04:45<philix>itd: will join that channel thanks
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07:01<lolol>How to connect to my friend's Linux Ubuntu computer to fix it
07:02<lolol>I have Linux Debian Stretch
07:02<lolol>is ssh the only way?
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07:06<grove>That depends on what your friend runs on his computer. If he doesn't run an sshd, ssh is not an option, if he runs a telnetd (he is stupid and) telnet would work, and there are more options
07:06<grove>Network topology between your computer and your friends computer also matters
07:07<lolol>ubuntu have the remote desktop
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07:08<lindi->lolol: do you know name of the package?
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07:09<lolol>what package
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07:12<lindi->lolol: of the "remote desktop"
07:14<lolol>reminna
07:15<lindi->lolol: that's also in debian
07:15<lolol>really
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07:15<lindi->hmm, at least was
07:15<lolol>stretch alpha 05
07:15<lolol>i have cinagre
07:15<lolol>i have vinagre*
07:15<lindi->yep, not in debian 9
07:15<lindi->only debian 8
07:15<itd>lindi-: Will be in backports, once that is available IIRC.
07:18<itd>https://www.remmina.org/wp/remmina-1-2-will-be-available-on-debian-9-stretch/
07:22<lolol>whats the name of nthe package in ubuntu
07:22<lolol>remote desktop
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07:33<annadane>i have a generic question about usb sticks; i have a stick with 9.0 on it, if i want to instead have 9.1 can i cp debian.iso /dev/sdx sync and have it replace 9 or do i need to wipe it using something like gparted first?
07:34<lindi->annadane: that should work, however, instead of running cp as root you can also use udisks to write it
07:34<lindi->annadane: here's how: http://lindi.iki.fi/lindi/restore-usb-image1.webm :)
07:34<annadane>lindi-, any issues with running cp as root or are you just providing an alternative?
07:35<lindi->annadane: well if you make mistakes you will destroy your installation
07:35<lindi->annadane: if you accidentally type /dev/sda instead of /dev/sdb for example
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07:36<piper>annadane: why not just use dd if=debian-9.x.y-amd64-netinst.iso of=/dev/sxy bs=4M; sync very fast, especially with 3.0
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07:37<lindi->piper: dd and cp should probably be equally fast?
07:37<annadane>piper, so for example dd if=debian-9.1-amd64-netinst-iso of=/dev/sda bs=4M; sync
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07:37<piper>lindi-: i think dd is faster, but, that is my opinion, also matters usb2/ usb3
07:38<jm_>double check sda is correct
07:38<lindi->piper: time to do a benchmark
07:38<piper>lindi-: 2 days ago
07:38<annadane>jm_, actually, right, sda isn't correct, i believe mine is sdb
07:38<lindi->piper: aha
07:38<lindi->jm_: that's exactly why I'd recommend working as non-root with udisks
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07:39<lindi->at least for new people who don't necessarily know how to see what device is whicih
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07:39<piper>annadane: why my is command was labeled sxy ;)
07:39<annadane>ah, no, sdc1, so it's sdc
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07:40<annadane>according to lsblk
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07:40<piper>annadane: that or blkid (as root) would be correct
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07:42<annadane>ah, i'm a dummy. the labels aren't permanent, i forgot
07:42<annadane>i need to check every time which one to use
07:42<annadane>i think it was sdb last time because it was the only usb i had plugged in
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07:44<annadane>so mount it, lsblk to show which one is right, unmount it and cp
07:45<piper>you don't need to do anything, plug it in as root blkid then dd away
07:46<annadane>piper, not sure what you mean by blkid
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07:46<piper>annadane: as root type blkid
07:47<annadane>ah so you need to type blkid then use dd
07:47<annadane>in two seperate lines
07:48<piper>you can use what you were using, i prefer using as blkid as root, it is more accurate, especially if you have more than one usb device plugged in
07:49<piper>it's also less typing than something like ls -la /dev/disk/by-uuid/
07:52<grawity>lsblk uses the same source as /dev/disk/by-*, which is updated on all hotplug events
07:53<annadane>i suppose cp is easier to remember if you don't have dd written down
07:53<annadane>though it's more work
07:54<piper>grawity: sure, but things don't cahnge as fast if you don't reboot, i fully trust blkid better with machines with high uptimes and 3-10 usb devices
07:54<piper>*change
07:55<grawity>what do you mean, "don't change as fast"
07:55<piper>grawity change a stick a couple time a minute
07:55<grawity>udev updates are near-instant unless you have some seriously buggy udev rules
07:55<grawity>(which wouldn't surprise me, tbh)
07:56<piper>and why wouldn't that suprise you
07:56<piper>seen alot testing my builds
07:57<piper>seen it a lot*
07:57<annadane>i don't believe you can use absolute pathnames with cp either, you need to cd to the directory
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07:57<grawity>annadane: you certainly can
07:57<annadane>maybe you can. i recalled it not working last time for whatever reason
07:57<grawity>they're just pathnames
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07:57<grawity>piper: do try running `udevadm monitor` and connecting a USB stick
07:57<piper>annadane: yes, google many have the same problem
07:58<piper>grawity: i don't need to run anything that slows me down
07:59<piper>iit just works using what i said here
07:59<grawity>even if it's for investigating why it's already slower than usual?
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07:59<grawity>well, it's fine by me
08:00<piper>i build my distro 14m48.251s, dd to stick 1m251s and fire it up less than a minute and install 4 minutes and done
08:00<annadane>in any case i'm not sure we solved lolol's problem
08:01<piper>thats kde, the slowest
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08:02<piper>thats a local build, from the server 6-7 minutes tops
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08:03<grawity>yeah I wasn't really asking about how fast you can compile all of linux though
08:04<piper>grawity: you mean all of debian
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08:05<piper>grawity: linux is the kernel
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08:23<farsight>hello
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08:24<farsight>hill
08:24<itd>farsight: Hello, do you need help?
08:25<farsight>i don't ues ti
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10:09<kernel-panic007>why i get this error while a run apt-get update
10:09<kernel-panic007>W: Failed to fetch http://http.debian.net/debian/dists/jessie-backports/main/binary-i386/Packages Hash Sum mismatch
10:09<kernel-panic007>E: Some index files failed to download. They have been ignored, or old ones used instead.
10:09<kernel-panic007>?
10:09-!-jathan is "realname" on @#crunchbang #debconf-infra #debconf #debconf-video #debian.ch #debian-es #debian-fr #debian-i18n #debian-l10n-spanish #debian-live #debian-lts #debian-lxqt #debian-mentors-es #debian-mentors #debian-mx #debian-next #debian-ni #debian-offtopic #debian-openstack #debian-publicity @#desdelinux_oficial @#desdelinux #moocows #munin #fai #tor
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10:16<annadane>kernel-panic007,
10:16<annadane>!bat
10:16<dpkg>In order to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, apt or aptitude we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use http://paste.debian.net/ to provide us with this information. Also ask me about <localized errors>.
10:16<annadane>that said, "hash sum mismatch" is a bit odd
10:17<annadane>kernel-panic007, i did find this https://stackoverflow.com/questions/15505775/debian-apt-packages-hash-sum-mismatch
10:18<annadane>perhaps i should have posted that first; sorry
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10:22<kernel-panic007>annadane, i just run apt-get update again and the error doesnt show up
10:22<kernel-panic007>weird uh
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10:27<Yoda-BZH>kernel-panic007: your server was probably rsyncing from another server, and all files weren't all synced
10:32<kernel-panic007>Yoda-BZH, maybe the software updater it is possible to disable it while the system is booting?
10:32-!-david [~david@2a02:c7d:63f8:5800:557e:f09e:d447:ad4a] has joined #debian
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10:39<Yoda-BZH>kernel-panic007: I don't know, probably.
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11:04<tristan_>Thanks a lot for those who made Debian Stretch !!
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12:21<jplimack>can someone help me with my repos. im using httpredir.debian.org, but its misconfigured (missing a trailing / ) and as a result apt cant get the repo index https://gist.github.com/kplimack/39fb8ed90cbca80da54021f9f0442d24
12:21<jplimack>i dunno if thats something the debian maintainers or fastly needs to fix
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12:21<jplimack>maybe both
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12:23<jmcnaught>jplimack: can you show your sources.list?
12:23<jplimack>the failing entry is: deb http://httpredir.debian.org/debian stretch main
12:24<jplimack>as you can see in the gist, i get a 404 until i add the trailing / to the url i get redirected to
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12:26<jmcnaught>i have a trailing slash on mine
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12:29<jmcnaught>the example on https://wiki.debian.org/SourcesList works for me as well if you have some reason you cannot show the file you are asking for help with
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12:32<vezult_>OK, so, where can I go to learn about this "predictable device naming" thing now used in stretch?
12:32<jmcnaught>vezult_: in udev's README.Debian
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12:34<jplimack>jmcnaught: https://gist.github.com/kplimack/797e70084e66859f672c9b1096ac21d2
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12:36<vezult_>jmcnaught: thanks
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12:39<jplimack>jmcnaught: E: The repository 'http://httpredir.debian.org/debian stretch-updates Release' does no longer have a Release file.
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12:41<jmcnaught>jplimack: if you 's/httpredir/deb/g' but leave off the trailing slashes (see https://deb.debian.org/) does it work?
12:42<jplimack>yes
12:42<jplimack>i can make it work, i just think theres a larger problem that the people who setup this redirect and host the repo should fix
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12:44<bremner>jplimack: httpredir is deprecated / obsolete
12:44<bremner>so, while your right there's a problem, the long term fix is really to migrate away from it.
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12:46<jplimack>bremner: then they should redirect it somewhere else permanently. i'll let the creator of this vagrant image with the stale repo source know its time to update
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12:47<bremner>jplimack: it is redirected. Apparently you found a problem with the redirection.
12:48<bremner>or the redirection ended, which seems less likely.
12:48<jplimack>the redirection goes to a url that requires a trailing /, without it i get a 404. if fastly fixed it on their end it would work
12:49<jplimack>or if we redirected with a / it woudl work
12:49<jplimack>so even if its deprecated, it would work if the redirect was correct or the server could handle it
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12:56<bremner>*shrug*, no idea really, not my thing.
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12:59<jmcnaught>jplimack: if you wanted to bring this to the attention of the admins you could file a bug report against the 'mirrors' pseudo-package
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14:01<ed>what place in time is this?
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14:01<towo`>ed, that is the debian support channel
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14:03<ed>test ok, thanks!
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14:18<canaima>HOLA
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14:21<canaima>COMO TE LLAMAS
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14:24<petn-randall>!es
14:24<dpkg>Este canal es de soporte técnico en Inglés para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en Español, puede ingresar en #debian-es tecleando /join #debian-es en la línea de chat.
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14:31<blake>hey
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14:33<blake>hey
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14:49<vezult_>So how am I supposed to deal with "predictable" device names in VMs?
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14:49<vezult_>I box up an image for use in vagrant, and the device changes
14:50<vezult_>I have to send the image to someone else, who is actually going to run it on VMware
14:50<vezult_>I have no idea how the device will be presented there
14:50<vezult_>previously, the device name was predictable. It was always goint to be eth0
14:51<petn-randall>vezult_: That's still the same with VMs.
14:52<petn-randall>vezult_: And even if it wasn't, the hardware ID will still stay the same even if you send the image around the globe.
14:52<vezult_>petn-randall: not sure what you are saying. The device won't change, with a VM?
14:52<petn-randall>vezult_: Yes, it'll still stay eth0.
14:53<vezult_>petn-randall: my direct experience says otherwise.
14:53<vezult_>I'm running stretch
14:53<vezult_>it was installed as stretch
14:53<petn-randall>vezult_: What does vagrant run on? libvirt?
14:54<vezult_>the device name was ens3 during installation
14:54<vezult_>petn-randall: yes, I"m using the libvirt provider
14:54<vezult_>I installed it using kvm/libvirt
14:55<vezult_>my /etc/network/interfaces is expecting ens3, but it boots, and the device name is ens5
14:56<vezult_>I can go back and run the original VM, and it comes up as ens3
14:56<localhorst>vezult_: https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/PredictableNetworkInterfaceNames/#idontlikethishowdoidisablethis
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14:57<petn-randall>vezult_: Usually Debian recognizes by mac address that it's a VM, and uses the non-predictable names.
14:58<blast007>importing a VM may (automatically or optionally) reinitialize the MAC address
14:58<vezult_>blast007: hmm. yes, that's probably it
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15:05<Guest1055>Since upgrading to stretch, I cannot start X on my X60 with libreboot
15:06<Guest1055>I get only a non-blinking cursor in left upper corner and internal keyboard is dead
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15:07<Guest1055>Magic SysRQ via external keyboard works. What can I do?
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15:10<blast007>Guest1055: can you switch to a virtual terminal with Ctrl+Alt+F4 (or similar F key.. I forget which ones X runs on now)?
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15:13<awal1>2 vt, if not wrong
15:13<Guest1055>blast007: No
15:13<awal1>2d ^
15:13<Guest1055>Tried Ctrl-Alt-F1to F12 no effect
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15:28<Walex>Guest1055: it looks like the kernel crashes or stops booting, but are you sure the behaviour is different with the external keyboard?
15:29<Guest1055>walex yes, without external keyboard I wasn't able to even enter MagicSysrqKey
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15:29<Walex>Guest1055: can you switch terminal with the external keyboard?
15:29<Guest1055>No :(
15:30<Walex>Guest1055: have you noticed what happens on boot? Any messages?
15:30<Walex>Guest1055: you can also switch to verbose boot mode
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15:31<Guest1055>I can enter encryption password but afterwards screen gets wiped
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15:32<Walex>Guest1055: then boot in verbose mode, or at least in non-quiet mode.
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15:32<Guest1055>ok
15:32<Walex>Guest1055: also, if you get an encruption prompt the bootm has been successdul
15:32<Walex>Guest1055: maybe it is selecting automatically the external video port.
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15:33<Guest1055>walex I also connected some monitor but got nothing
15:33<Walex>Guest1055: have you tried attaching an external display or using the key to switch displays (if any)?
15:33<Guest1055>yes, no luck
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15:34<Guest1055>I think I open a bugreport so the right logs get posted
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15:36<Walex>Guest1055: have you tried booting a liveCD like GRML or the Debian netinstall itself?
15:36<Guest1055>not yet
15:37<blast007>(or even the actual Debian Live DVD)
15:38<Guest1055>hmm will check if libreboot will boot via USB
15:39<Guest1055>is there still a possibility to boot into Xorg framebuffer mode?
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15:42<marioxcc>Hello.
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15:43<Walex>Guest1055: youir current problem is not to boot into X, is to get a tty console.
15:44<Walex>Guest1055: do you see a boot menu?
15:45<Guest1055>Walex: Grub screen?
15:45<Guest1055>I see a grub screen
15:46<Walex>Guest1055: can you select the "recovery" line?
15:46<Guest1055>Walex: I don't remember seeing one
15:47<Walex>Guest1055: then you can anyhow edit the boot line, there are a number of HOWTOs on that#
15:47<Walex>Guest1055: link to follow#
15:47<Guest1055>Walex: I can boot into rescue mode, that's what I'm using right now
15:47<Walex>Guest1055: thanks for telling us only now. Amazingly clever.
15:48<Guest1055>Walex: Sorry
15:48<Guest1055>I reported as #870006
15:50<Guest1055>Walex: I was so fixed on the X failure I forgot to mention the system works in text mode. :(
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15:56<Guest1055>But when I start graphical mode I have no idea how I could log into the machine. Network shouldn't yet be started, right?
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16:02<Maarten_>im on Jessie; im keeping rsync backups for a while, and i thought i should try restore a snapshot just to be 100% sure it works.. i took a new harddisk, create partition table schema in gpt, gave the partition lables, formatted all partitions, installed grub, mounted it and rsynced over a snapshot, made changes in grub config file and fstabe. and then rebooted... i was greeted with an; 'error: no such drive: <long UUID of the filesystem that i used to
16:02<Maarten_>install the new disk> \n entering rescue mode... \n grub rescure>' so obviously something wrong with grub. i loged-in to my old system and made a backup of mbr then added the grub menu entry to my working system's grub. rebooted into the grub of that disk then selected the entry for the new rsynced disk and that worked. once loged in i did a grub install and since then the error disappeared and i can use my new disk with needing the other disk's grub... so
16:02<Maarten_>now im trying to find the source of the initial error.. i backup an new version of the MBR but they turn out to be identical, to confirm i wrote the old MBR back to disk and im not getting back that error... i saw lots of filechange after the second grubinstall so i copied back all original files from the rsync backup, still not getting previous error back.... anyone any idea why grub was initially searching for old UUID, and where it stored that
16:02<Maarten_>information?
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16:05<manu>hi
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16:21<alkisg>Maarten_: grub installs itself to the first 1 MB of the drive, not only to MBR
16:21<alkisg>There's a gap after the mbr and before the 1st partition, it uses that to put core.img
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16:33<tester>hello
16:34<ed_>hello tester
16:35<tester>ed_ are you an advanced diebiana user?
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16:39<Maarten_>alkisg: ah oke... according to both meld and cmp the core.img located at /boot/grub/i386-pc/ differers from the one in my rsync backup but according to the diff compare from my hex-editor there content is identical.. i would like to check by writing the older core.img to there to see if i would get back that error... but im not sure on how to dd to after the first 512B
16:40<ed_>no way. i just started using irc about an hour ago. I'm late to the party again....:D
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16:40<blink>hi, after an upgrade from jessie to stretch, I can no longer mount nfs, RPC Error: Procedure unavailable, showmount -e $IP for the server indicates I'm permitted and it used to work
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16:42<blink>specifically mount.nfs: portmap query failed: RPC: Procedure unavailable
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17:00<guilherme>Is it possible to keep two different compilations of the same library? One would be compiled with gcc (the one on the system) and another compiled with the intel compiler (just a few libraries for performance purposes).
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17:04<malte_>hi, quick question, debian 9 kde sound is working, except in browser... chromium, firefox... all no sound, where to change the adapter? i think they are using wrong adapter
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17:06<petn-randall>malte_: You can check by starting the audio mixer.
17:07<malte_>yes the headset is set as default, so i thought it will be used by the browser
17:09<petn-randall>malte_: Is pulseaudio running?
17:09<malte_>%m Malte
17:10<malte_>how to see it? in games from steam i have sound,
17:10<petn-randall>malte_: ps auxw | grep pulseaudio
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17:12<Malte82>yes it's running
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17:12<Malte82>1464 0.2 0.1 1720264 13392 ? S<l 22:28 0:05 /usr/bin/pulseaudio --start --log-target=syslog
17:13<petn-randall>Malte82: Are you checking it with youtube? If yes, I'd make sure the video isn't accidentally muted.
17:13<petn-randall>Malte82: In the sound mixer the browser should show up as an input stream.
17:13<Malte82>yes i do and yes it's not muted
17:14<petn-randall>In my volume control Firefox is listed under "playback" when it's running a video. It's not if the YT tab is closed.
17:14<petn-randall>Malte82: Do you see it listed there?
17:14<Malte82>yes
17:15<Malte82>it's there set to 100%
17:15<petn-randall>Malte82: and the volume meter is going up and down from the sound?
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17:15<Malte82>nothing is moving
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17:16<petn-randall>Malte82: To the far right there should be a box to toggle for muting. Is maybe that playback stream muted?
17:17<Malte82>somehow i was able to select the other sound device für the steam game... just cant find it again i guess i have to select
17:17<Malte82>not muted as far as i can see
17:17<jmcnaught>Malte82: does your mixer show playback channels for other applications that are currently running, like your steam game?
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17:17<Malte82>yes it#s showing the game when it's running, and it is showig the browser
17:18<jmcnaught>Malte82: the way pulseaudio works is it talks to the sound card, and applications talk to it, so that the sound card is shared. If one program takes over the sound card, then pulseaudio can be locked out (and everything that plays nice with it)
17:18<Malte82>hm ok i will try to figure that one out
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17:19<jmcnaught>Malte82: you could test that by logging out and starting a new session with nothing running, and launch browser first. Or switch to a different user.
17:20<Malte82>yes i will try, for some reason also audacity is silent now. i will restart
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17:25<petn-randall>jmcnaught: pulseaudio is already running, so I'm assuming it's already got the sound card.
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17:25<Malte82>restart did not help
17:25<Malte82>i'm sure in the end it will be something stupid :D
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17:27<Malte82>when i'm chaning the volume of my headset i can hear the sound effect of chaning it
17:29<mnuhmnuh>Malte82: when i use the mate volume control, i hear a "pop" acknowledgment.
17:29<Malte82>yes i can here something like that
17:29<Malte82>i guess the browser is just using the wrong audio device
17:30<mnuhmnuh>Malte82: i also have gkrellm's volume control applet watching and working.
17:30<Malte82>do i find that in apt?
17:30<d3d83at>how long does an updated version of a tool need to be out before it is considered as a patch for the current distro via apt-get upgrade ?
17:31<mnuhmnuh>speakers plugged into headphone jacks.
17:31<jmcnaught>petn-randall: yes but I brought it up because sound worked in something (the steam game) and I don't think that pulseaudio keeps the sound card open when it's idling
17:31<d3d83at>like python 3.6 or node6
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17:33<petn-randall>d3d83at: stable only gets security updates.
17:33<jmcnaught>d3d83at: python 3.6 probably won't be in Debian until buster is released in a couple of years. Maybe it will end up in stable-backports, but python has never been in backports as far as I know
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17:34<mnuhmnuh>d3d83at: build your own in /usr/local
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17:35<d3d83at>had to install through brew because building python3 for any normal use, screws up everything part of deb that depends on python 2.7
17:35<jmcnaught>replacing the distro's python could have unforeseen consequences
17:35<jmcnaught>d3d83at: use python 3.6 in a chroot or a container
17:35<d3d83at>just would be nice to have python 3.6 as part of something accessible to all users
17:36<d3d83at>brew + direnv
17:37<d3d83at>nodejs was pretty easy as nothing relies on it yet -- so tosses that v0.10 version, and pulled from their repo. it's just that pulling in 3rd party repos, is ... i feel risky, and slows the update process down
17:39<jmcnaught>i hate node.js, just throwing that out there. but if i had to run it, it would also be in a container of some kinda and not polluting my main system
17:41<d3d83at>heh. i understand. not a fan either, but at least nodejs itself is a single file -- as is npm sort of . it's all the crap you pull down that is nasty
17:42<d3d83at>the npm that comes with node packaged with debian, is broken. flat out, it should be removed from the repo altogether.
17:42<d3d83at>or updated :)
17:43<jmcnaught>d3d83at: you should read about how Debian releases work
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17:44<d3d83at>sure, not being snotty when i ask this, i am dead serious -- is there something that sets it to keep dead code ? isn't dead/broken code considered a security risk ?
17:44<jmcnaught>d3d83at: https://debian-handbook.info/browse/stable/sect.release-lifecycle.html
17:44<d3d83at>by code -- i mean programs of course :)
17:44<d3d83at>and actual code lol
17:46<jmcnaught>d3d83at: Debian is a stable distro. While a release is still in 'testing' the versions of all packages are frozen. Bugs are fixed during the freeze, and when all 'release critical' bugs are fixed it becomes a 'stable' release
17:47<d3d83at>yes, i noticed that -- what happens when that software stops working though - after released as stable ?
17:47<jmcnaught>so the software in a debian stable release stays the same version for the entire lifespan of the release, with very few exceptions for firefox-esr and chromium and extreme situations
17:47<d3d83at>python 2.7 is fine ... but npm, is most certainly not.
17:48<jmcnaught>d3d83at: there are still security fixes and bug fixes, and sometimes a completely broken package will be removed from the stable release
17:48-!-Strife1989 [~quassel@adsl-98-80-189-249.mcn.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:49*mnuhmnuh oops. we used "=" where we should have said "==" in ssh. sry.
17:49<d3d83at>well, this is it in a nutshell -- nodejs marked as stable, runs ok, but npm is broken. the version of npm must match nodejs else all sorts of fun (and really bad stuff) happens.
17:50<blast007>npm isn't in Debian Stretch
17:50<d3d83at>i believe the change was due to the repo (for npm packages) changed the data the program recieves.
17:50<jmcnaught>d3d83at: oh and node doesn't even get security support in Debian (see the release notes). It's not there to be used so much as a dependency of packages that use it
17:50<d3d83at>hah... ok, that explains it
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17:50<d3d83at>@blast007 --- npm is installed as part of the nodejs package
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17:53<blast007>on Stretch?
17:53<d3d83at>i agree tho -- nodejs is a very peculiar world. you have an application that runs javascript, which relies on a specific version of it's own package manager to pull dependencies down (integrity matching or something), which those commands are mostly just scripts, not traditional binaries.
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17:54<blast007>,v npm
17:54<judd>Package: npm on amd64 -- sid: 1.4.21+ds-2; jessie: 1.4.21+ds-2
17:54<d3d83at>https://packages.debian.org/stretch/nodejs all versions of nodejs come with npm
17:54<blast007>I see no npm binary in the list of files for the nodejs package
17:54<d3d83at>npm is a script -- kind of kit and kabootle with nodejs ... no npm, nodejs = useless XD
17:54<d3d83at>it's not a binary
17:55<blast007>nothing named npm
17:55<blast007>https://packages.debian.org/stretch/amd64/nodejs/filelist
17:55<d3d83at>`apt-get install nodejs` ---- then ... `npm --version`
17:56<blast007>bash: npm: command not found
17:57<d3d83at>i see what you mean ... wth. you guys bastardized nodejs XD ... it can't even be used to manage packages
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17:57<mnuhmnuh>not in filelist either.
17:58<d3d83at>if anything that will cause more issues if deb comes with packages that depend on nodejs, and someone wants to use / compile current versions, then end up with package conflicts having to chroot / whatever semi-build a distro within the distro / docker ... just for it XD
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17:59<piper>not stable but in sid you have npm/unstable,unstable 1.4.21+ds-2 all and npm2deb/unstable,unstable 0.2.7-1 all
17:59<d3d83at>similar to the problem I had with trying to get py3.6 as main python on the box -- too many core applications required by the core (minimal) install dependent on that specific version of python
18:00<jmcnaught>d3d83at: did you upgrade from jessie? you could still have the npm from jessie installed
18:00<d3d83at>if i can chime in -- pitch my two cents. if an application requires use of dated popular packages which are conflictional, to not make that package part of core.
18:01<d3d83at>nah .. i resolved my issues by pulling down direct from nodejs and dumping the package. more concerned if an older and hacky version of nodejs has slipped it's way into being a required package for X application to work
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18:03<d3d83at>it leaves it in a state with weak forward compatability, so that part of the os will break fairly quick (depending on how much change is happening on the far end (npm / etc package repo) side of things.
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18:06<d3d83at>i am still using jessie atm on most boxes -- will probably toy with stretch over the weekend. the experience of debian is fantastic, and it has made it my chosen build. the ONLY issue i had with stretch, was too many packages co-dependent on python 2.7 making it easier to roll a new distro than to replace it and be stable with a moderately more recent version. -- hence brew. nodejs wasn't an issue to replace as nothing
18:06<d3d83at>(from what i could tell) depended on it yet. if the new distro has packages that depend on that super old version of nodejs, with a bastardized version in packagemanager, this would make it so I could only use node through brew or some other sub-shell
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18:07<jmcnaught>d3d83at: it's not a good idea to replace the distro's python interpreter. Use tools like schroot, LXC, nspawn to run software like that
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18:08<d3d83at>Nodejs 6 was released stable Apr 26, 2016. so it really should have made its way in.
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18:10<d3d83at>not fond of python either, but i was tasked with the challenge of making some wacky config which, on a mac is just a few snags from the repo and all good --- which i got working, but it's all in containers which has caused some issue with the way some of the applications i work on call out for dependencies. generally works well, but it's an extra hurdle
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18:10<jmcnaught>d3d83at: look at the stretch release notes. it doesn't seem that enough people in Debian are willing to commit to keeping up with node for security. It's in the distro because other things in the distro use it. It's not meant to be use for a public facing site
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18:11<d3d83at>^ thats what i am afraid of ... this >> "because other things in the distro use it" is what really messes with the "i wanna compile my own for global use on all users"
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18:11<d3d83at>why make stuff depend on something that there isn't enough care involved to maintain or at the very least release somewhat current version or replaceable ?
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18:13<mnuhmnuh>d3d83at: why can't they all use a env. var that system login provides? shouldn't conflict with bin system uses itself.
18:13<d3d83at>it's kind of like -- hey, I know you use a modern browser, but we are gonna display this page using html from 1994 and MSHTML (deprecated / broken now) script -- you can use a different browser on a different computer if you want to see stuff render normal lol
18:13<d3d83at>sure -- thats an option too .. let the stuff that packages depend on, seek that stuff out in a non-global manner
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18:14<d3d83at>so whatever is in deb that depends on nodejs 4.2 have a separate location specific for 4.2 that only those applications see, instead of setting it up that it's the defacto nodejs package, and how dare you overwrite :)
18:15<d3d83at>can compile apache / php / mysql / dozens - thousands of other packages that contain their dependencies mostly
18:15<mnuhmnuh>d3d83at: i've used systems with mult. perl vs. installed; vendor's, larry wall's, larry's bleeding edge lates. no prob.
18:16<d3d83at>it's just some thoughts to improve the compatability of distibutions making them more friendly
18:16<mnuhmnuh>more bleeding edgy too.
18:17<mnuhmnuh>careful what you wish for.
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18:23<jmcnaught>d3d83at: my advice remains "use containers or something like them" for this kind of software, so that you don't break your Debian system trying to install it.
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18:34<d3d83at>i get it, but, at the same time -- using a really dated package as part of core required by core stuff, that will never be maintained -- does that make sense ?
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18:35<d3d83at>if no one will maintain it -- strip it, and all that depends on it out -- so that others can roll their own without having to consume extra resources docking containers
18:36<M4GNV5>hey there, is the nvidia-vulkan-common just a packaging thing? or will i break stuff when hitting Y? https://paste.debian.net/plain/978700 (I'm running stretch)
18:37<mnuhmnuh>M4GNV5: just saw that last night. guy was convinced pkging error.
18:38<mnuhmnuh>thot he got around it.
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18:39<mnuhmnuh>i thot.
18:41<mnuhmnuh>he was all about nvidia-vulkan-common Conflicts: libgl1-nvidia-glx
18:43*mnuhmnuh "Vulkan is a multivendor open standard ..." uh huh. open for whom?
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19:24<piper>M4GNV5: in sid i have apt policy nvidia-vulkan-common Installed: 375.82-1 if it matters
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19:46<mnuhmnuh>i see Candidate: 375.66-2~deb9u1 here; not installed.
19:48<piper>figured as much, why i said i have sid ;)
19:48<mnuhmnuh>oops.
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20:35<melvin>I run apt-get install flashplugin-nonfree and recieve E: Package 'flashplugin-nonfree' has no installation candidate... is the plugin no longer available in stretch?
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20:36<kyoyayakoshi>OLO
20:36<kyoyayakoshi>hi
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20:40-!-rovonovo_zoro is "rovonovo_zoro" on #debian-next #oftc #debian-js #pere #debian-publicity #npm2deb #debian-mobile #debian-diaspora #debian-bots
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20:45<piper>melvin: https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=flashplugin-nonfree https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/flashplugin-nonfree
20:46<melvin>piper: Thanks, I'll check it out!
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23:06<L33tPysco>Hello??
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23:31<vkrishn>hi, with v9.1.0 release seems some files in pool/* gets overwritten
23:31<vkrishn>eg, /pool/main/r/request-tracker4/rt4-db-postgresql_4.4.1-3_all.deb from 9.0.0 amd64-DVD
23:31<vkrishn>is there a super-archive that still keeps them ?
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23:31-!-samsonizor is "Sam J" on #debian
23:38<jcrain>vkrishn: like snapshot.debian.org?
23:38<jcrain>!snapshot
23:38<dpkg>http://snapshot.debian.org/ is an archive of almost all Debian packages uploaded since 2005, including those removed from the official archives because they were very buggy, unusable, broken, vulnerable or in some way non-free. This service replaces snapshot.debian.net. http://www.debian.org/News/2010/20100412
23:39<vkrishn>hmm.. ok, thanks!! will check
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23:43-!-csh is "realname" on #debian
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23:44-!-user is "realname" on #debian
23:44<user>hii
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23:48<twentyfour>is there a way to check where a package is being installed from? I've got dependency hell with vlc and I can't tell which repo it's pulling the package from
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23:51<petn-randall>twentyfour: 'apt-cache policy <packagename>' will tell you.
23:51<twentyfour>petn-randall: thanks!
23:51<twentyfour>I tracked it down with apt/sources.list
23:51<twentyfour>but good to know for the future
23:52<petn-randall>twentyfour: also:
23:52<petn-randall>!frankendebian
23:52<dpkg>When you get random packages from random repositories, mix multiple releases of Debian, or mix Debian and derived distributions, you have a mess. There's no way anyone can support this "distribution of Frankenstein" and #debian certainly doesn't want to even try. See if you can convince ##linux to help.
23:52<petn-randall>!dont break debian
23:52<dpkg>i guess dont break debian is https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian
23:52<petn-randall>twentyfour: You need to be cautious when adding 3rd party repos, see above. ^^^
23:52<twentyfour>: / sure, I'll keep that in mind
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23:58-!-breitenj- is "Julian Breiteneicher" on #tor-de #tor #gentoo #debian
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---Logclosed Sat Jul 29 00:00:11 2017