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#debian IRC Logs for 2017-08-21

---Logopened Mon Aug 21 00:00:22 2017
00:04-!-dboehmer [~quassel@p5DD9E68D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #debian
00:04-!-dboehmer is "Daniel B\xF6hmer,,," on #debian
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00:04-!-gnew is "gnew" on @#linuxcoffe #debian-devel-br #debian-br #debian
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00:20-!-oalvarez is "Octavio Alvarez" on #debian #debian-devel-es #debian-es #debian-gnome #debian-ipv6 #debian-mentors #debian-mentors-es #debian-mx #debian-next @#pinpoint #packaging
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00:23<n0rthlighted>Is sysv-rc-conf a viable way to disable avahi daemon ?
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00:34<jmcnaught>n0rthlighted: it doesn't look like something I'd invest time in learning. You can use systemctl to disable or mask services. There's also systemd-ui
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00:40-!-sidmo is "sidmo" on #debian-systemd #debian-next #debian-offtopic #debian-kde #debian
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00:44-!-towo^work is "Torsten -towo- Wohlfarth" on #kernelnewbies #siduction-dev #siduction-de #siduction #debian-offtopic #debian-next #debian #aptosid
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01:03-!-holmgren is "Magnus Holmgren" on @#debian-se #debian-mentors #debconf #debian
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01:54<Ionic>uhm... so debug symbols are mostly built automatically now, put into a different archive that is typically not mirrored and only available for testing and up?
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01:55<Ionic>what if I need debug symbols for a package in stretch?
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01:57<rjsalts>they're in dlsym pacakages
01:58<Ionic>dlsym? did you mean dbgsym?
01:58<rjsalts>maybe
02:00<Ionic>well... for qemu-user-static, I cannot find any such package. there is a dbgsym package in debian-debug, but that's not installable with the current version
02:00<rjsalts>yes, sorry, it's -dbgsym
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02:07-!-bony is "Bhuvan Krishna,,," on @#eswecha @#swecha #debian-mentors #debian #freedombox @#balaswecha
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02:08-!-debalance is "Philipp Huebner" on #debian-kde #debian-devel-changes #debian #debian-qa
02:09<rjsalts>Ionic: http://debug.mirrors.debian.org/debian-debug/pool/main/q/qemu/?
02:09<rjsalts>Ionic: it's not in there?
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02:10-!-Q-Master^Work is "Vladimir Berezenko" on #debian #debianppc #debian-next
02:11<Ionic>rjsalts: there is a package, but it's not installable with the current qemu version in stretch (coming from stretch-updates IIRC)
02:11<jm_>the one from security-updates is missing, so I guess that's it
02:11<Ionic>err yeah, security
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06:44<Nicki>hi there, when I try to send pgp-encrypted mails via evolution, I get an error. couldn't fix it myself... https://paste.debian.net/982334
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06:46<Nicki>I had severe problems with thunderbird before.
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06:53<grove>Nicki: You might want to edit your key to set it to be ultimately trusted
06:53<Nicki>so how do I do that?
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07:09<grove>Nicki: It's been a long time since I did that, so I don't remember the details, but from a command line you run something like `gpg --edit-key <keyid>` and that actually has some help that should be enough
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08:01<Jonas2>I did $ rm -rd ./* Thumbs.db on an encrypted, exdternal HDD and it deleted many files. (How) Can I recover them? The HDD wasn't used since then unless for copying files to another pc ("backup").
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08:16<Jonas2>so, there was no writing actions (I hope, indeed)
08:22<bremner>Jonas2: maybe the package testdisk can help
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08:25<sjzurek>https://unix.stackexchange.com/a/101247
08:26<sjzurek>Jonas2: there is little hope, but try the above.
08:26<jelly>I would leave data recovery to a professional service, after making a bit-exact copy of the disk (or partition)
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08:30<sjzurek>bremner: ever tried testdisk before?
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08:31<bremner>once. I can't remember too much about the results.
08:32<sjzurek>I have an old Mac disk with loads of photos and partition table fubar. I wonder if this can help.
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09:53<user___>my bios lists a SATA device but the my debian can't see it (fdisk -l doesn't list it ) any hints ?
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10:31<llandon>user___: did you see any hints in dmesg?
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10:33-!-jlbg is "a2" on #debian-es #kernelnewbies #debian #freebsd
10:33<user___>no
10:34<llandon>maybe you're sata controller is disabled or in a special mode, fake-raid or something similar?
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10:35<user___>I can see it in the bios
10:35<llandon>what doesn't mean it will pass through to the os
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10:53-!-AzaToth is "Carl Fürstenberg" on #debian-perl #debian-mentors #debian
10:54<user___>my dmesg http://paste.debian.net/982360/
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11:04<bop>is nvidia planning 304.131 driver for 9 debian?
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11:11<blast007>bop: Debian 9 has 304.135 available
11:12<blast007>https://wiki.debian.org/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers#Version_304.135_.28legacy_GPUs.29
11:12<bop>blast007, thanks
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12:37-!-thunderrd_ is "realname" on #aptosid #ck #debian #siduction @#GamersOnLinux #tor #oftc
12:38-!-JanC [~janc@ip-62-235-121-28.dsl.scarlet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:40-!-ao2_ [~ao2@host222-146-dynamic.20-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:40-!-alanz [~smuxi@31.55.18.55] has joined #debian
12:40-!-alanz is "Your Name" on #debian #smuxi
12:43-!-mufflon [~quassel@77-255-69-230.adsl.inetia.pl] has joined #debian
12:43-!-mufflon is "Mufflon,,," on #debian #debian-next
12:45-!-thunderrd__ [~thunderrd@116.58.253.189] has joined #debian
12:45-!-thunderrd__ is "realname" on #aptosid #ck #debian #siduction #GamersOnLinux #tor #oftc
12:45-!-LtWorf_ [~LtWorf@c83-248-241-180.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #debian
12:45-!-LtWorf_ is "Salvo Tomaselli" on #debian-kde #debian
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12:47-!-towo` is "Torsten -towo- Wohlfarth" on #debian.de-offtopic #siduction-admin #siduction-dev #siduction-de #siduction #debian-offtopic #debian-next #debian #aptosid
12:51-!-xubuntu [~xubuntu@87.18.240.12] has joined #debian
12:51-!-xubuntu is "Live session user" on #debian
12:51-!-francesco [~smuxi@93-42-67-182.ip85.fastwebnet.it] has joined #debian
12:51-!-francesco is "francesco" on #debian #smuxi
12:51-!-thunderrd_ [~thunderrd@110.77.194.205] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:52-!-francesco is now known as Guest3031
12:53-!-xubuntu [~xubuntu@87.18.240.12] has quit []
12:54-!-almahdi [~almahdi@pd-18-117-170.service.infuturo.it] has joined #debian
12:54-!-almahdi is "almahdi" on #debian
12:55-!-xubuntu [~xubuntu@87.18.240.12] has joined #debian
12:55-!-xubuntu is "Live session user" on #debian
12:56-!-vins [~xubuntu@87.18.240.12] has joined #debian
12:56-!-vins is "vince" on #debian
12:57-!-bnw [~bnw@183.37.129.121] has joined #debian
12:57-!-bnw is "realname" on #debian-next #debian #debian-zh #dot
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12:58-!-lpouzenc is "Ludovic Pouzenc" on #debian #debian-gnome #debian-tech #debian-fr
12:58-!-H4ndy [~H4ndy@2a00:c1a0:c0c0:ef00:bc1b:783d:e407:c808] has joined #debian
12:58-!-H4ndy is "..." on #debian-next #debian
12:58-!-C0d3X_t1 [~C0d3X_t1@179.184.25.50.static.gvt.net.br] has joined #debian
12:58-!-C0d3X_t1 is "C0d3X_t1" on #debian
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13:01-!-vins [~xubuntu@87.18.240.12] has quit [Quit: Sto andando via]
13:01-!-xubuntu [~xubuntu@87.18.240.12] has quit [Quit: Sto andando via]
13:01-!-vins [~xubuntu@87.18.240.12] has joined #debian
13:01-!-vins is "vince" on #debian
13:03-!-ao2__ [~ao2@host20-212-dynamic.49-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
13:03<vins>!list
13:03<dpkg>vins: Debian è un sistema operativo composto da software libero (un concetto distinto da quello di gratis): vedi http://www.debian.org/intro/free.it.html per saperne di più.
13:03-!-vins [~xubuntu@87.18.240.12] has quit []
13:04-!-tuxampol [~Mylin@2001:a61:42d5:e701:211:6bff:fe39:28f7] has joined #debian
13:04-!-tuxampol is "Quasi" on #debian
13:04-!-Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has joined #debian
13:04-!-Haudegen is "AP,,," on #debian #debian-next #debian-kde
13:05-!-vins [~xubuntu@87.18.240.12] has joined #debian
13:05-!-vins is "vince" on #debian
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13:05-!-vins is "vince" on #debian
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13:06-!-almahdi [~almahdi@pd-18-117-170.service.infuturo.it] has quit [Quit: Sto andando via]
13:09-!-ee2455 [~ee2455@0001c7c0.user.oftc.net] has left #debian [Leaving]
13:09-!-jathan [~jathan@fixed-187-190-159-133.totalplay.net] has joined #debian
13:09-!-jathan is "realname" on #debian #debconf-infra #debconf #debconf-video #debian.ch #debian-es #debian-fr #debian-i18n #debian-l10n-spanish #debian-live #debian-lts #debian-lxqt #debian-mentors-es #debian-mentors #debian-mx #debian-next #debian-ni #debian-offtopic #debian-openstack #debian-publicity @#desdelinux_oficial @#desdelinux #munin #fai #tor #debian-anarchy #debian-reproducible #reproducible-builds
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13:10-!-user is "realname" on #debian
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13:12-!-herbmillerjr is "realname" on #debian-xfce #debian-arm #debian
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13:15-!-damon is "realname" on #debian
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13:17-!-wanderson is "realname" on #debian
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13:24-!-pavlushka [~pavlushka@00021abb.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
13:24-!-pavlushka is "pavlushka" on #linode #debian #oftc
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13:33-!-Phi_mb is "realname" on #debian
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13:33-!-Lordz is "Adium User" on #debian-br #debian
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13:33-!-JanC is "Jan Claeys" on #bcache #debian-fonts #quodlibet #linux-nfs #linuxfs #ext4 #epfsug #debian-nl #debian-derivatives #debian #apparmor
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13:39-!-remy is "realname" on #debian #nllgg #debian-nl
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13:40-!-n0rthlight is "realname" on #debian-offtopic #debian
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13:40-!-satbyy is "Satish Bysany" on #debian-in #packaging #debian-next #debian
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13:46-!-thunderrd_ is "realname" on #aptosid #ck #debian #siduction #GamersOnLinux #tor #oftc
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13:48-!-Megaf is "Megaf" on #debian-mobile #debconf #debian-bugs #debian-mentors #linode #debian-kbsd #debian-next #debian-offtopic #debian
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13:52-!-hen- is "hen" on #debian
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13:56-!-verde1 is "OFTC WebIRC Client" on #debian #virt
13:56-!-rbalint [~rbalint@54029219.dsl.pool.telekom.hu] has joined #debian
13:56-!-rbalint is "purple" on #debian
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13:58-!-hackunoichi is "SCM C" on #debian-multimedia #debian #debian-offtopic #debian-france #debian-gnome #debian-fr
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13:59-!-hascable is "Unknown" on #debian #@work
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14:00-!-ach is "spooky" on #debian
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14:02-!-towo` is "Torsten -towo- Wohlfarth" on #debian.de-offtopic #siduction-admin #siduction-dev #siduction-de #siduction #debian-offtopic #debian-next #debian #aptosid
14:02-!-bugtraq [~bugtraq@105.204.3.134] has joined #debian
14:02-!-bugtraq is "bugtraq" on #debian
14:03<bugtraq>how are you
14:03-!-hascable [~rien@00022c46.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
14:03-!-hascable is "Unknown" on #debian #@work
14:03<bugtraq>how preparing google chrome
14:04-!-hascable [~rien@00022c46.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:04<bugtraq>google chrome dont work
14:04<n0rthlight>Try chromium
14:04-!-hascable [~rien@00022c46.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
14:04-!-hascable is "Unknown" on #debian #@work
14:05-!-verde1 [~oftc-webi@187.134.204.82] has left #debian []
14:05<bugtraq>upgrading bugtraq dont work
14:05<n0rthlight>Chrome is not officially supported by Debian.
14:05<bugtraq>no i ubunto
14:06-!-kathenas [~kathenas@88-106-102-240.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #debian
14:06-!-kathenas is "Phil Wyett" on #debian-bugs #debian-www #debconf #debian #debian-cd #debian-qa #debian-offtopic #debian-mentors #debian-derivatives #debian-gnome #debian-live #debian-next
14:06<bugtraq>chromium good
14:07<bugtraq>thank you
14:07<n0rthlight>Oh try the ubuntu channel on freenode I believe.
14:07<n0rthlight>Ok :0
14:07<bugtraq>thank you
14:07<n0rthlight>of course.
14:08<bugtraq>how
14:09<n0rthlight>https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/ChannelList
14:09<n0rthlight>try this list you should be redirected by your irc client.
14:10-!-rkta [~kt@p5DE86941.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #debian
14:10-!-rkta is "R.K." on #debian
14:10<bugtraq>thank you
14:10<bugtraq>i leaving
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14:11-!-edeak is "realname" on #suckless #debian
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14:26-!-maddog226 is "maddog226uk" on #debian
14:26-!-debalance [~quassel@aftr-88-153-7-112.unity-media.net] has joined #debian
14:26-!-debalance is "Philipp Huebner" on #debian-devel-changes #debian #debian-qa #debian-kde
14:27-!-giaur [~quassel@abdz41.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #debian
14:27-!-giaur is "giaur" on #debian
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14:28-!-thunderrd_ is "realname" on #aptosid #ck #debian #siduction @#GamersOnLinux #tor #oftc
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14:32-!-hele_ [~hele@a88-115-23-37.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #debian
14:32-!-hele_ is "hele" on #debian-next #debian-kde #debian
14:33-!-LtWorf_ [~LtWorf@c83-248-241-180.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #debian
14:33-!-LtWorf_ is "Salvo Tomaselli" on #debian-kde #debian
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14:35-!-gnew is "gnew" on @#linuxcoffe #debian-devel-br #debian-br #debian
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14:37-!-ralph is "Ralph Amissah" on #debian-live #progress-linux #debian #debian-next #debian-ruby #open-infrastructure #sisu
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14:38-!-phil5354 is "Phil" on #debian #debian-www
14:41-!-RingoMckraken [~pattyp@static-98-117-89-150.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #debian
14:41-!-RingoMckraken is "PattyP" on #debian
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14:49-!-magyar is now known as Guest3040
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14:49-!-magyar is "Nagy Ondrash" on #debian-kde #debian
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14:53-!-ejl [~ejl@c-24-16-240-217.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #debian
14:53-!-ejl is "Eric J Lawrence" on #debian
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14:57-!-Pavr is "Pavr" on #powerdns #debian-offtopic #debian-next #debian #ceph
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14:58-!-Pavr is "Pavr" on #powerdns #debian-offtopic #debian-next #debian #ceph
15:00-!-zxytm33 [~zxytm33@189.202.80.15.cable.dyn.cableonline.com.mx] has joined #debian
15:00-!-zxytm33 is "realname" on #debian
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15:04-!-wCPO is "Kristian Klausen" on #debian #debian-next #debian-lxqt #debian-mentors #debian-live
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15:09-!-Intel4bite is "..." on @#DevCore #tor #debian @#SubnetEngineering
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15:14-!-[Wolf_King] is "Abraham" on #debian
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15:16-!-bollo is "bollo" on #debian-offtopic #debian-next #debian #debian-gnome
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15:17-!-moz is "Sven" on #oftc #moocows #debian-offtopic #debian
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15:19-!-x032cx is "lxuser" on #debian
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15:29-!-zxytm33 is "realname" on #debian
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15:29-!-free4fun is "http://barbanegra.info/" on #debian
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15:32-!-rhubarb is "rhubarb" on #qubes #subgraph #debian #tor-offtopic #privacytech #tor
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15:32-!-petru is "Petru Trimbitas" on #debian-kde #debian
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15:35-!-marijnfs is "Your Name" on #debian #smuxi
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15:40-!-MoRpHeO35 is "morpheo gnu,,," on #debian
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15:48-!-elcuervo is "Your Name" on #debian #smuxi
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15:51-!-On4r4p is "Ouroboros" on #debian
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16:04<phil5354>Does ctrl alt backspace work on debian?
16:05<towo`>if you configure it, yes
16:05<phil5354>ok, not by default then
16:05<towo`>exactly
16:05<phil5354>basically I want to know what to do if my system crashes
16:05<phil5354>I'm a newbie
16:06<towo`>dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration is your friend
16:06<phil5354>on windows you either go to task manager to kill the application which froze
16:06<phil5354>or you manually reset your pc
16:06<phil5354>what do you suggest I do on Linux?
16:06<towo`>depends on the type of the crash
16:06<phil5354>Ok
16:06<phil5354>My case
16:06<phil5354>GUI crash
16:06<phil5354>can still move mouse
16:07<towo`>Strg + Alt + Fn
16:07<phil5354>but can't click on anything at all
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16:07<towo`>should put you to tty
16:07<phil5354>Sorry what is Strg, can you clarify?
16:07<towo`>but better than all that, you should find out, what happen
16:07<towo`>grr
16:07<phil5354>I know I can do Ctrl alt F1 F3 etc
16:07<towo`>sorry i'm german
16:07<towo`>Strg + Alt + Fn
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16:08<towo`>Ctrl is Strg
16:08<phil5354>I know what you mean I think :)
16:08<phil5354>Ok I learned something new!
16:08<towo`>and from tty you can kill all hanging processes
16:08<towo`>even the complete X
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16:09<towo`>but again, you should find out, what's the problem at all
16:09<phil5354>Ok that's another skill (as I said I'm a newbie)
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16:09<phil5354>I need to learn how to diagnose
16:09<towo`>phil5354, you should read the important logs
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16:10<phil5354>I guess there's no better way than to google
16:10<iona>my first port of call is always /var/log
16:10<phil5354>thanks for the pointer
16:10<iona>phil5354: searching online for the error is a great way to learn as someone else has invariably had the same problem as you :)
16:10<phil5354>There are other questions that come up though, like what is X? How do I know what a hanging process is?
16:10<phil5354>It's quite a lot to absorb
16:11<phil5354>I mean 'how can I tell which process is hanging?'
16:12<towo`>look in the logs
16:12<towo`>dmesg
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16:12<towo`>journalctl -b
16:13<towo`>for a 1st hint
16:13<iona>phil5354: what is hanging? ie. what are you trying to do, what's the expected result and what's actually happening?
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16:15<antoine>a
16:15<phil5354>iona: just want a simple way to get back to work, if my GUI freezes, I first go to another tty
16:16<phil5354>from there, what do I do?
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16:16<phil5354>Somehow stop X and restart it?
16:16<phil5354>The cause of the crash can be investigated later
16:16<phil5354>as towo`advised previously
16:16<annadane>phil5354, GUI freezes may be a result of missing firmware, what does dmesg | grep firmware say as root? and what DE are you on?
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16:17<towo`>systemctl stop <your_used_dm>
16:17<phil5354>annadane: Debian 9 but my GUI hasn't actually crashed
16:17<phil5354>I'm preparing
16:17<phil5354>for the inevitable
16:17<iona>phil5354: if it helps at all, I've been using Debian for years and I've never had the situation you describe
16:18<phil5354>iona: really? wow
16:18<iona>I used MATE on jessie and moved across to KDE when stretch came out
16:18<phil5354>towo`: wrote it down, thanks
16:18<phil5354>towo`, I assume I can do systemctl start gdm3?
16:18<iona>KDE in particular is great at recovering from problems - very occasionally it'll tell me it's restarted the panel or compositor for some reason but it doesn't affect my work or running programs
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16:19<phil5354>iona: i'm using GNOME now, but I want to use KDE on my other laptop
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16:19<phil5354>plus Konqi is cute
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16:20<iona>I think you may be over preparing :)
16:21<annadane>i suspect that as well
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16:21<annadane>btw https://debian-handbook.info/browse/stable/solving-problems.html
16:23<phil5354>that's great, thank you :)
16:23<phil5354>going back to the tty thingy
16:24<phil5354>I know F2 is usually default
16:24<phil5354>if I go to ctrl alt f3
16:24<phil5354>systemctl stop gdm3
16:24<phil5354>then start it again
16:24<annadane>!enter
16:24<dpkg>The enter key is not a substitute for punctuation. Hitting enter unnecessarily makes it difficult to follow what you are saying. Consider using ',', '. ', ';', '...', '---', or ':' instead. If you hit enter too often, you will be autokicked by debhelper for flooding the channel.
16:24<phil5354>It doesn't affect my tty2 does it?
16:25<phil5354>That means I can't actually get back to work
16:26<phil5354>annadane: sorry about that
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16:27<iona>phil5354: maybe I am being a bit thick, long day, but I am not sure I'm quite following what you're asking
16:28<annadane>i know for me plasma kept crashing and it was suggested i install nvidia's proprietary driver because what i have isn't well suited to handle plasma
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16:28<annadane>random GUI crashes shouldn't happen all that often
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16:30<phil5354>iona: So let's say GUI crashed, I want to get back to work now (investigate the logs later and perhaps submit the bug report if needed). So to get back to work, I do ctrl alt F3 to go to another tty. I want to restart my display manager (on my tty2?) so I do systemctl stop gdm3 and then systemctl start gdm3. Will that get me back on track? I don't understand the concept of different tty yet, if I execute the commands correctly, will I s
16:30<phil5354>ee the login screen again as normal on my ctrl alt f2?
16:30<phil5354>I hope that makes more sense
16:31<phil5354>annadane: I see, i'm glad to hear that :)
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16:32<annadane>phil5354, well, i believe all you would need to do if your fix work is to switch back to the workspace where your usual work is, for me that would be ctrl alt f7
16:32<iona>phil5354: X is always on F7
16:32<annadane>f1-f6 are reserved for virtual terminals
16:32<phil5354>for me its f2
16:32<phil5354>My current one
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16:34<phil5354>Thanks all, you've been very helpful annadane iona towo`
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16:37<annadane>phil5354, i would add especially if you use stable it really really shouldn't happen
16:37<annadane>actually i don't even remember whether my issue occurred on stable or unstable, i don't remember which i was using
16:38<phil5354>i'm using testing on this laptop
16:38<phil5354>but on my other one its stable
16:39<annadane>even with testing/unstable they're pretty solid
16:40<iona>phil5354: my advice would be don't use testing unless you are actually testing the next release
16:40<iona>especially at this point, when stretch has only just been released
16:40<iona>you'll get a) breakage and b) slow security updates and bugfixes
16:41<iona>stable and sid/unstable are the two choices I'd recommend
16:42<Walex>phil5354: regardless of the arguments of "iona" I have a different take: if you use the 'testing' or 'unstable' archives you are certainly a very advanced Debian expert who know the packaging system and application debugging inside out, so we cannot be so presumptuous to think we can support you.
16:42<annadane>really, beyond missing firmware that would be the logical second step; to install the proprietary driver you need
16:42<annadane>but this is what irc and mailing lists are for, to rescue you from problems and/or your own stupidity
16:42<annadane>that may not be the issue at all and it could be a myriad of other factors
16:42<phil5354>Walex: nope, you're incorrect actually, i'm a newbie who doesn't know what the heck they are doing
16:43<phil5354>AND i'm not a programmer
16:43<Walex>phil5354: in that case why are you using packages from 'testing' or 'unstable'? :-)
16:43<annadane>for future reference, #debian is for stable. if you need help with testing/unstable go to #debian-next
16:44<phil5354>Walex: Assumed updates were slower on stable, simply because of that, the less risky one to go for is testing
16:44<phil5354>I didn't want to go on unstable
16:44<annadane>updates aren't really slower on stable, they're just less frequent because the system as a whole doesn't change as often
16:45<annadane>i typically use unstable but that's because i want new software and new functionality, not because "it's less risky"
16:45<phil5354>annadane: ok then my assumptions are wrong
16:45<Walex>phil5354: the idea is that 'stable' may be a bit behind the times, bupt it is a known quantity that gets important bug and security fixes as a commitment. 'testing' and 'unstable' are good for people who are advanced Debian experts and programmers and can do issue investigation and fixing.
16:45<annadane>and it is a risk, but i accept that
16:46<Walex>phil5354: so 'stable' can be far more easily supported. Lots of people have up-to-date 'stable'.
16:46<phil5354>Walex: noted, I will stick with stable as I have no idea what I'm doing
16:46<phil5354>Probably not on this laptop, it will be hard to revert back now wouldn't it?
16:46<phil5354>My main machine is still on stable so I will be fine :)
16:47<Walex>phil5354: you can always play around with 'testing' or 'unstable' in a VM
16:47<Walex>phil5354: Debian packages don't support downgrading, but it *usually* works.
16:48<Walex>phil5354: especially this soon after a major release, from 'testing' to 'stable'. But given that you are a newbie that may be risky.
16:48<phil5354>I'll leave it for now, testing will still fix itself right?
16:48<Walex>phil5354: right now 'testing' is not too far of 'stable'.
16:48<annadane>"stable" and "unstable" are both well supported. stable because it's the flagship of the debian project (the system doesn't really change but you do get security support and updates), unstable because whatever problems there are get fixed quickly
16:48<annadane>testing is in this weird no man's land of blah
16:48<phil5354>lol 'no man's land of blah'
16:48<Walex>annadane: but 'unstable' is "luck of the day".
16:49<annadane>sort of. it works for a lot of people if you watch what you're doing.
16:49<phil5354>annadane, Walex: are you guys contributors?
16:49<Walex>phil5354: no, but long time user and packager on the side.
16:49<annadane>i've filed bug reports so i guess.
16:49<Walex>filed bug reports etc. too, not a DD
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16:51<annadane>anyway, the general advice is that you could use testing/unstable (but yes, i don't think you really should use testing) on a computer which is just for personal use (keep backups, like you should be anyway), but for a production machine you need to be up all the time and not crash under any circumstances, use stable
16:51<phil5354>ok thank you, I really don't know what I'm doing sometimes :)
16:52<phil5354>i'm looking to contribute just as you both have
16:52<phil5354>through bug reports
16:53<iona>phil5354: I have a slightly different take - anyone who takes the time to do anything beyond just using the system eg. helping out new users in IRC is 'contributing' to Debian
16:53<amacater>phil5354 - the only other time when you might use testing is when you're using something in hardware where something is not supported in stable but that's one of the reasons for stable-backports
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16:54<annadane>(because yes, the issue with stable is that software gets old which means not only do you not have access to newer programs unless they're in backports but the existing programs you have may also be missing functionality, so some people do have reasons for not using stable)
16:55<annadane>(even unstable can be a few releases behind a truly rolling distribution)
16:56<annadane>which however doesn't mean stable has "slower updates" and is therefore "more risky to use"
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16:56<iona>stable is my choice for my home computer but that's because I enjoy "no surprises"
16:58<phil5354>I didn't mean that stable is risker to use, I was referring to testing and unstable. I do worry about the missing functionality part and slower updates, which is what got me to change to testing in the first place. But anyway I shall stick with stable from now unless I have a desperate reason not to (functionality i'm dying to use)
16:59<annadane>phil5354, https://wiki.debian.org/DebianUnstable#What_are_some_best_practices_for_testing.2Fsid_users.3F
17:03<phil5354>annadane: thanks, confirms my incorrect decision
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17:03<phil5354>:)
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17:16<tda>Since I updated to stretch autofs mounts are broken. what is going on? https://paste.debian.net/hidden/dfe1ef05/
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17:20<tda>also this: https://paste.debian.net/hidden/520c56c8/
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18:22-!-Vollstrecker_ is "Werner Mahr" on #debian-kde #debian
18:23<Walex>tda: guessing wildly, maybe 'systemd'?
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18:24<Walex>tda: ah no, not that.
18:25<Walex>tda: just likely to have no direct support for CIFS mounting compiled in.
18:26<Walex>tda: try 'smbfs' instead of 'cifs'
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18:30<Walex>tda: ls /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/autofs
18:31<Walex>tda: also look at: /usr/share/autofs/conffiles/auto.smb
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18:38<reinaldoc>folks, certificate from https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/iso-cd/ is expired?
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18:42<blast007>reinaldoc: for you, does 'host cdimage.debian.org' show that it is an alias for ftp.acc.umu.se ?
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18:42<reinaldoc>blast007: yes
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18:46<sd>clear
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18:46<blast007>reinaldoc: I'm getting the same host here, but it shows a valid certificate
18:46<sney>I see it as a letsencrypt cert (for ftp.acc.umu.se) that expired on the 14th, probably a failed certbot run
18:47<sney>nothing cached here as I haven't tried to hit cdimage recently
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18:48-!-lex is "realname" on #debian
18:48-!-lex is now known as Guest3052
18:49<reinaldoc>Issued: May 16, 2017 Expires: Aug 14, 2017
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18:52-!-jplejacq is "Jean Pierre LeJacq" on #debian-kde #debian
18:54<abrotman>reinaldoc: there is a #debian-mirrors which may be able to help more
18:54<abrotman>reinaldoc: or you're being proxied?
18:54<reinaldoc>no
18:56<blast007>194.71.11.173, 194.71.11.165, 2001:6b0:19:0:0:0:0:173, and 2001:6b0:19:0:0:0:0:165 are all showing the same cert, which expires 19 Nov 2017
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19:37<reinaldoc>blast007: certificate was updated 40 minutes ago
19:37<reinaldoc>$ openssl s_client -connect cdimage.debian.org:443 2>/dev/null <<<xyz | openssl x509 -text | grep 'Not '
19:37<reinaldoc>Not After : Nov 19 06:14:00 2017 GMT
19:38<sney>certbot problems
19:39<reinaldoc>thanks
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20:13<SandraSein>hello
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21:12<intrepidpig>How do I install debian on a pine64? I'm just confused by terminology like debootstrap
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21:19<bremner>intrepidpig: according to this page, the installer works on "many" arm64 machines https://wiki.debian.org/Arm64Port#Stretch
21:19<bremner>hmm. not too clear if it works on pine64
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21:20<intrepidpig>bremner: I read that it should work, I'm just confused on the difference of "Installing with the installer
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21:20<intrepidpig>" and "deboostrap arm64"
21:20<intrepidpig>sorry accidentally pressed enter
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21:20<bremner>the installer is the normal way, you boot from the installer medium and follow the menus
21:21<bremner>debootstrap is for when the installer doesn't work
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21:21<intrepidpig>Ok I think the pine64 can't boot from usb, so do I have to use debootstrap on the pine64 sd card from another computer?
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21:23<bremner>probably
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21:30<marco_>hello world
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22:51<xaxlm>Is there any, when installing a program, to tell dpkg in which directory I want to install?
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23:03<xaxlm>ok no problem. I refer to the manual. :)
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---Logclosed Tue Aug 22 00:00:23 2017