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#debian IRC Logs for 2017-11-21

---Logopened Tue Nov 21 00:00:32 2017
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00:04-!-dogsleg is "Lev Lamberov" on #debian-ftp #debconf #debian-haskell #debian-i18n #debian-doc #debian-www #debian-mentors #debian
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00:19-!-oalvarez is "Octavio Alvarez" on #debian #debian-devel-es #debian-es #debian-gnome #debian-ipv6 #debian-mentors #debian-mentors-es #debian-mx #debian-next @#pinpoint #packaging
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00:27<mouzl>Hey everyone, is there a way to reinstall grub from the live CD?
00:27<mouzl>I noticed that grub2 is not installed in the shell the graphical installer provides you with
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00:32<mouzl>I'm kinda curious how you're supposed to use this shell at all, as it seems to be missing most things needed to get a system working. lsblk, fdisk,gdisk,parted, etc.
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00:39<mouzl>All I need to do to get my system working again is chroot into it, but mount in the live-CD doesn't seem to function? `mount -t ext4 /dev/sda4 /mnt/` should work from what I understand, but I just get back a file not found error.
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00:42-!-kathenas is "Phil Wyett" on #debian-gnome #debian-reproducible #debian-bugs #debian-www #debconf #debian #debian-cd #debian-qa #debian-offtopic #debian-mentors #debian-derivatives #debian-live #debian-next
00:42<somiaj>are you sure the disk is /dev/sda4 on the live system, it maybe /dev/sdb
00:42<somiaj>check blkid for info on what sort of partitions you have
00:43<mouzl>blkd-id shows the ext4 partition on sda4 which is where I had installed it originally
00:43<tt>it's probably /mnt that doesn't exist
00:43<tt>don't forget to also mount /boot if it's a separate partition
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00:43-!-gtristan is "Tristan Van Berkom" on #kernelnewbies #qemu #debian #ninja-build #debian-next #reproducible-builds
00:44<mouzl>ls -al shows /mnt to be in /. Running pwd from within /mnt/ also shows /mt
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00:45<tt>well the installer rescue thingy definitely has mount
00:45<tt>but yes you can do the same thing from a livecd
00:46<mouzl>Do I need to be in the actual live part of the live-cd? I'm currently trying in the shell provided by the graphical installer as the live part doesn't work on my machine. Trying to run the live system just constantly reboots my monitors
00:47<tt>no, either should work
00:47<tt>there's also a rescue boot option iirc on the installer cd
00:47<tt>that does basically the same thing
00:47<tt>uses the kernel on the disc to boot your installed partition
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00:48-!-Q-Master^Work is "Vladimir Berezenko" on #debian-next #debian #debianppc
00:48<mouzl>Hm. How do I access that? I only see an option to launch the live system, an option to launch the graphical installer and an option to launch the non-graphical installer.
00:49<tt>I could be wrong
00:50<mouzl>Maybe it has something to do with the installer not being able to find itself? I had to setup a loop mount when originally installing debian because the installer could not find a mounted CD.
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00:54<jm_>it's in Advanced options menu
00:54<jm_>so if you don't see that, then maybe the live system is missing it
00:56<somiaj>I think the rescue mode is only on the offical installers and not live, but i haven't used alive system in a while.
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01:09<willemb>Hi. On a bunch of my servers (all built from the same image) I have a 'support' group in /etc/group. I don't know where that comes from
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01:10<willemb>furthermore, the non-existent 'support' user is a member of the 'video,plugdev,netdev groups
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01:10<willemb>does someone hasve some insight into where this might come from?
01:10<o11c>willemb: well, how did you build the image?
01:10<mouzl>Got it working :D - I just used an arch live CD I had laying around instead of using my bandwidth on downloading another disk image.
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01:10<rjsalts>willemb: I don't think it's a standard debian thing, maybe you did a preseed install with that user/group populated?
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01:11<willemb>o11c: I have a 'masterbuild' server that is kept up to date via puppet and snapshotted every once in a while
01:11<willemb>however, the group is NOT created in any of my puppet manifests
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01:11<rjsalts>willemb: you using foreman to pxe boot things?
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01:12<o11c>and people say "I don't care if my computer gets infected" ...
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01:12<willemb>rjsalts: no, we have our own build system
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01:13<awal1__>mode +g helps
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01:14-!-mode/#debian [+o jm_] by ChanServ
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01:14<@jm_>awal1__: you sure? g is unknown mode char to me
01:14<dwfreed>it's a usermode
01:15<@jm_>right
01:15-!-mode/#debian [+R] by dwfreed
01:15-!-mode/#debian [+n] by ChanServ
01:15<awal1__>usermode ya
01:15<@jm_>need to read up on channel modes if there's something that helps for that too
01:15<dwfreed>that'll stop the spam here
01:15<dwfreed>(the +R I just did, not +g)
01:16<o11c>fwiw I did /filter add capslock * * ([A-Z].*){30}
01:16<awal1__>+g for avoid pm spam
01:16<o11c>since nobody should be using that many capitals for any reason
01:17<@jm_>I use G but that's not very helpful in such cases ;)
01:17<awal1__>pm spam or any pm
01:17<o11c>hm wait, it seems to default to case-insensitive
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01:18<awal1__>jm_, not helpful for channel, being usermode
01:18<rjsalts>you'd think you could mess with the ircd and put the autokilled: spambot. bit before echoing it to channels/users
01:18<@jm_>awal1__: I mean +G usermode is not as helpful as +g in this case (yeah I get that it's a usermode)
01:19<rjsalts>I get that it's the chanserv doing that
01:19*tt suddenly realizes he has joins/parts/quits/modes hidden here and that's why he's so confused by the current conversation
01:19<rjsalts>I have them muted too
01:20<rjsalts>willemb: does the build system use a preseed?
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01:25<dwfreed>o11c: that regex doesn't do what you think it does anyway
01:27<o11c>dwfreed: it seems to work after adding (?-i)
01:27<dwfreed>o11c: it matches (Any upper case character, followed by any number of characters) repeated 30 times
01:27<o11c>right
01:28<o11c>which is equivalent to "any message with at least 30 uppercase characters", since it's not anchored
01:28<dwfreed>that includes people who type a thirty word line in Title Case
01:28<o11c>I suppose replacing . with [^A-Z] might be beter for performance, but ...
01:28<o11c>dwfreed: I Probably Don't Want To See That Either, It's Annoying
01:29<rjsalts>o11c: don't you just want [A-Z]{30}?
01:29<dwfreed>rjsalts: that would be thirty upper case letters in a row
01:29<dwfreed>not even antidisestablishmentarianism is that long
01:29<o11c>if I wanted to be stricter, I'd use .? instead of .*
01:30<dwfreed>(it's close, though, 28)
01:30<o11c>ethylenediaminetetraacetates and hydroxydehydrocorticosterone tie it
01:30<o11c>pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconioses beats it though
01:30<rjsalts>o11c: [A-Z:space:]{30}?
01:31<o11c>Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch if we're doing proper nouns
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01:32<rjsalts>o11c: [[:upper:][:space:]]{30} even
01:33<o11c>random punctuation though
01:34<rjsalts>o11c: [^[:lower:]]{30} maybe?
01:38<o11c>Sure, I guess I'll use that
01:43<dwfreed>that matches mathematical equations that are 30 characters in length
01:44<dwfreed>eg: 111111111 * 111111111 = 12345678987654321
01:45<o11c>dwfreed: most mathematical equations have at least some variables
01:45<dwfreed>and that would still match if it used upper case ones
01:45<o11c>unsure if weechat uses a unicode pattern or not though - someone paste the greek alphabet twice?
01:46<dwfreed>you probably missed my example if you already employed it :)
01:46<o11c>lowercase greek I mean
01:47<dwfreed>(one hundred eleven million, one hundred eleven thousand, one hudred eleven times itself is twelve quadrillion, three hundred fourty five trillion, six hundred seventy eight billion, nine hundred eighty seven million, six hundred fifty four thousand, three hundred twenty one)
01:47<grawity>do something like ([[:upper:]]{5,}[^[:lower:]]{,5})+
01:52<o11c>αβγδεζηθικλμνξοπρςστυφχψωαβγδεζηθικλμνξοπρςστυφχψω
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03:25<Weefiitroubles>Hello! I have this wifi dongle https://www.thinkpenguin.com/gnu-linux/penguin-wireless-n-usb-adapter-gnu-linux-tpe-n150usb and I've installed the firmware in the newest version of debian and it is not working how do I fix this?
03:28<@jm_>how did you install the firmware?
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03:29<Weefiitroubles>I tried it two ways, first by installing a .deb file and seccond by copying the files into /lib/firmware
03:31<@jm_>did installing the .deb rebuild initrd image? any messages about firmware still missing from kernel?
03:32<Weefiitroubles>"did installing the .deb rebuild initrd image?" Sorry I'm not a Linux pro just yet, can you elaborate? :)
03:35<@jm_>when you install it it rebuilds initrd image at the end, there's a message on screen, can you try this as root? update-initramfs -u
03:39<Weefiitroubles>It does say missing firmware but its stuff I removed manually a bit ago. Did I ruin everything?
03:40<@jm_>what exactly did you remove?
03:40<Weefiitroubles>Firmware I installed for another wifi dongle
03:40<Weefiitroubles>It was nonfree and I figured if I could get this one working I might as well remove the excess
03:41<@jm_>if you installed it manually, then it's OK to remove it, as long as it's not owned by a package (assuming remove means remove the file, not the package)
03:41<@jm_>what's the exact message you get?
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03:42<Weefiitroubles>A bunch of "W: possible missing firmware" but It looks like its all from the stuff I removed.
03:42<@jm_>doesn't it also mention filename?
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03:43<Weefiitroubles>Yeah, would you like me to just post what I got here? It's long for the record
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03:44<@jm_>!paste
03:44<dpkg>Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use: http://paste.debian.net/ http://pastie.org/ or http://picpaste.com/ for pics. Use wikisend.com for large files (think tar.gz) up to 100MB. Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <wgetpaste>.
03:44<@jm_>put it there
03:45<Weefiitroubles>Oh thank makes things easier, thanks for the link. one sec
03:45<@jm_>you can also use cli tools if you need to
03:47<Weefiitroubles>https://paste.debian.net/996813/
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03:50<@jm_>so those are for r8169 but tpe-n150usb says it's AR9271 which is apparently https://wiki.debian.org/ath9k_htc
03:51<@jm_>which USB ID does it have?
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03:51<@jm_>curious though cause it says No dependencies on NDISWrapper, binary blobs, or proprietary drivers-firmware
03:52<Weefiitroubles>From lsusb
03:52<Weefiitroubles>Bus 004 Device 005: ID 0cf3:9271 Atheros Communications, Inc. AR9271 802.11n
03:52<@jm_>aha! it says debian needs firmware - yup follow the docs on the wiki
03:53<Weefiitroubles>Thats the problem, I did.
03:53<@jm_>you installed the firmware-atheros package?
03:54<Weefiitroubles>Yes
03:54-!-mode/#debian [-o jm_] by jm_
03:54<Weefiitroubles>I did it manually though (as in I used "apt install ./firmware.deb)
03:54<jm_>ok so that's why you no longer get firmware missing message for it I guess ... so what's the issue then?
03:55<Weefiitroubles>It will not show any connections in wicd
03:55<Weefiitroubles>Sorry I should have been more clear
03:55<jm_>it does not work that way, it's either «dpkg -i file.deb» or «apt-install firmware-atheros»
03:56<Weefiitroubles>Really? Ok I feel stupid as I knew that.
03:56<Weefiitroubles>thats what I get for installing linux at 2am
03:56<jm_>https://wiki.debian.org/WiFi/HowToUse
03:57<jm_>tried using say NM to configure it? does it show up in «ls /sys/class/net»?
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04:01<Weefiitroubles>Whats NM? I did ls /sys/class/net and I don't think so as this is what shows up ls /sys/class/net, enp6s0 lo wlx2824ff1a00b9
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04:01<jm_>network manager
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04:01<jm_>wlx2824ff1a00b9 is probably it
04:03<jm_>ls -l /sys/class/net/wlx2824ff1a00b9/device/driver
04:05<Weefiitroubles>lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 0 Nov 21 01:35 /sys/class/net/wlx2824ff1a00b9/device/driver -> ../../../../../../bus/usb/drivers/ath9k_htc
04:05<jm_>right, so it looks all right to me, try configuring it in network manager, but someone else will need to help with that as I never used wifi
04:07<Weefiitroubles>ok, one more thing and I'll try to get out of your hair. When I used update-initramfs -u I got all of those missing firmware errors as I obviously removed them. How do I fix that?
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04:08<jm_>apt install firmware-realtek
04:09<jm_>but in most cases those errors can be ignored for that card
04:10<jm_>well warnings
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04:11<Weefiitroubles>Well I kinda assumed that part, its more of an ocd thing(also I figured out the configuring bit and now it seems wifi is working :D)
04:11<jm_>cool
04:12<Weefiitroubles>Well the errors are still there but I guess it really doesn't matter does it?
04:12<jm_>they should be gone after you reboot
04:12<Weefiitroubles>ah ok. So would manually removing the files (again) remove the warnings after reboot?
04:14<jm_>no it will introduce them again, and that would be the warning I mentioned before - don't remove files that are owned by packages like that
04:15<Weefiitroubles>So the solution then is to remove the package then right or no?
04:16<jm_>that too will introduce the warnings as it also removes the files, so basically it's either you keep it installed, or uninstall it and ignore the warnings
04:20<Weefiitroubles>Huh thats interesting. I honestly might consider reinstalling (this is a fresh debian install) out of ocd. Well anyways thanks to you my desktop can now connect to the Internet. Thank you so much! Ok one last thing I swear and then I'm out of here. Would lurking on this channel do me any good for just learning random little tid bits about using debian? Thank you so much jm_
04:20<jm_>reinstalling won't change anything, so why go through that?
04:21<jm_>it should help with that, but these days the channel is not nearly as active as it was in the past, maybe also check the one on freenode if it's more active
04:21<jm_>no problem about the help
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04:22<Weefiitroubles>I probably won't reinstall to be honest, I'm just saying stupid stuff out of tiredness. Is it #Debian on freenode? I'll check it out obviously under a username that isn't a throwaway.
04:23<jm_>yeah #debian on irc.freenode.net
04:24<Weefiitroubles>Alright, Thank you and have a wonderful day/night friend :)
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05:01<mouzl>How do I view the list of keys on a keyserver now that gpg/apt-key is deprecated?
05:03<mouzl>I'm attempting to install Spotify - but from what I can tell you have to grab the right GPG key manually now and I'm not sure how to search for the key that goes with the string `0DF731E45CE24F27EEEB1450EFDC8610341D9410`
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05:20<mouzl>Also I don't suppose there's a way to get apt to ignore missing package dependencies? --ignore-missing doesn't seem to do it.
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05:43<mouzl>Well got Spotify installed, turned out it really did need openssl1.0.0 and not openssl1.0.1... Now I just have to fix the fact that it always chooses the wrong audio device (not the default one)
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06:13<gladioacuto>hello
06:14<petn-randall>hi gladioacuto
06:14<gladioacuto>BIOS is last-updated on my Lenovo Thinkpad X1 Carbon 5th gen, running stretch. However I get those horrible lines in dmesg, how to fix? Expecially for CPU temp...even it does not seem to overheat and to oversteer the fan..please help. http://paste.debian.net/996827/
06:14<gladioacuto>hi petn-randall
06:15<petn-randall>gladioacuto: Which release year is gen 5?
06:15<gladioacuto>petn-randall, 2017
06:16<petn-randall>gladioacuto: Which OS release are you running on it?
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06:16<petn-randall>oh, nevermind
06:16<gladioacuto>stretch
06:17<petn-randall>gladioacuto: I'd try using the kernel from stretch-backports then, they probably fixed a few quirks in there for that device.
06:17<petn-randall>,kernels
06:17<judd>Available kernel versions are: experimental: 4.14.0-trunk-686-pae (4.14-1~exp1); sid: 4.13.0-1-686 (4.13.13-1); buster: 4.13.0-1-686 (4.13.4-2); stretch-backports: 4.13.0-0.bpo.1-686 (4.13.4-2~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.9.0-4-686 (4.9.51-1); jessie-backports: 4.9.0-0.bpo.4-686 (4.9.51-1~bpo8+1); jessie: 3.16.0-4-686-pae (3.16.43-2+deb8u5); wheezy-backports: 3.16.0-0.bpo.4-686-pae
06:17<judd>(3.16.39-1+deb8u1~bpo70+1); wheezy: 3.2.0-4-686-pae (3.2.93-1)
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06:21<gladioacuto>petn-randall, strange, I am running 4.13.0-1-amd64 but the issue is there
06:21<gladioacuto>I got it from testing, in order to check for that issue
06:21<petn-randall>gladioacuto: Eh, don't mix stable and testing.
06:22<petn-randall>gladioacuto: backports is a much safer solution, and even if you need a package from testing, it's safer to build and install it yourself.
06:22<petn-randall>!ssb
06:22<dpkg>First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) aptitude update; aptitude install build-essential; aptitude build-dep packagename; apt-get -b source packagename; 4) install the resultant debs. To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>.
06:23<gladioacuto>petn-randall, ok, I will purge packages and reinstall. Which kernel do you suggest?
06:23<petn-randall>gladioacuto: I guess you could building 4.14 from upstream, other than that I don't have any ideas.
06:23<petn-randall>gladioacuto: Do you have any symptoms other than those kernel messages?
06:24<gladioacuto>petn-randall, not thermal ones, only resuming after hibernation/suspension gets my X either hang one or crash/reload
06:25<xormor>I have copied a library music poetry CD onto my hard drive in Debian. What tool do I use in Debian to display the names of the songs properly? I renamed the files manually, but it says like. "Unknown Performer - Song Number 10".
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06:27<petn-randall>xormor: It's probably reading the names from the ID3 tags. You'd have to update those.
06:30<gladioacuto>petn-randall, I am going to reboot
06:30<gladioacuto>see you later
06:31<gladioacuto>petn-randall, of 4.14 do I have to install headers also?
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06:43<jm_>headers are needed if you plan to build out of tree kernel modules
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08:01<gladioacuto>hey guys
08:01<gladioacuto>4.14 seems to work perfectly!
08:02<gladioacuto>no dmesg issues seem to appear
08:02<gladioacuto>only the [drm] line of my previous paste is still there, but dunno if it does denote a problem or not
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08:14<gladioacuto>after some minutes running, I get these new lines of error (I got them also with 4.13 kernel) but don't know how to explain them: http://paste.debian.net/996848/
08:15<petn-randall>gladioacuto: If you don't have any visible problems with wifi its safe to ignore them.
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08:21<gladioacuto>petn-randall, however, it is not clear to me why some issues disappeared with this "experimental" kernel and not with the "official" 4.13 even if in testing
08:21<gladioacuto>Do I have to never update the kernel?
08:22<sdk>Q: what are the default font in debian (when I use serif, sans-serif, monospace instead of a font-family name like Liberation Sans) ?
08:24<petn-randall>sdk: Depends on which you install, and if you mean the terminal, X11, gnome, xfce, ...
08:24<petn-randall>sdk: There's no single font used across all of them, if that's your question.
08:25<gladioacuto>oh oh...after few minutes more thinkpad-acpi messages again in dmesg...:(( http://paste.debian.net/996849/
08:25<sdk>petn-randall: i've installed a minimal install with i3 only. But there's surely a way to know where the aliase "monospace" is pointing to for my term and X11.
08:26<petn-randall>sdk: I don't know i3 well, but maybe someone else can answer that.
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08:30<Blacker47>sdk, you can try "fc-match Sans" but i'm not sure what libs use fontconfig and not own things.
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08:32<sdk>Blacker47: Eh thanks, it's returned "DejaVu Sans" ;)
08:33<sdk>Collective knowledge is definitely more powerful than any search engine!
08:36<gladioacuto>Ok, sorry I have to go...hope to read soon your answer when I will be back
08:44<petn-randall>gladioacuto: You can update it to stretch backports when the 4.14 kernel comes out in a few weeks. After that you can simply update the kernel with the usual 'apt update && apt upgrade'.
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11:25<gladioacuto>petn-randall, running stretch, can I add a sid repo line in source.list to try kernel 4.13.0-1?
11:26<petn-randall>gladioacuto: I wouldn't add testing/sid "deb" lines to your sources.list as this risks major breakage of your system. Instead use:
11:26<petn-randall>!ssb
11:26<dpkg>First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) aptitude update; aptitude install build-essential; aptitude build-dep packagename; apt-get -b source packagename; 4) install the resultant debs. To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>.
11:26<gladioacuto>petn-randall, none of 4.13.0-0/4.14.0 in experimental solved my issues with cpu temp in dmesg
11:26<petn-randall>gladioacuto: But do you have any noticable symptoms? Otherwise they're just messages you can ignore.
11:27<gladioacuto>moreover, I found in /var/log/Xorg.0.log that the loaded X driver is VESA and not INTEL, how to fix?
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11:28<gladioacuto>petn-randall, I know I can ignore them, but they are really anti hestetic
11:36<gladioacuto>!deb-src sid
11:36<dpkg>You can get apt to download source packages with a <deb-src> line in your <sources.list>. A suitable entry for the sid release is: "deb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian/ sid main contrib non-free". Remember to "apt-get update" after changing your sources.list.
11:36<petn-randall>gladioacuto: What is "anti hestetic"?
11:37<gladioacuto>to get those lines in red in dmesg, like something that is going to "explode"
11:37<petn-randall>Eh
11:38<petn-randall>gladioacuto: I can assure you from experience that your time is better spent elsewhere than finding ways to see less red in dmesg.
11:38<petn-randall>gladioacuto: "If it ain't broken, don't fix it."
11:39<gladioacuto>petn-randall, ok, i will try to follow your suggestion
11:39<gladioacuto>what about the Xorg issue?
11:40<gladioacuto>petn-randall, however I started checking for dmesg errors because of the issues of hanging/frezing after resuming from suspension/hibernation, not just to play with kernels
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11:47<sdk>Q: Is there a way to make ssh-add persistant between reboot?
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11:48<buZz>what am i doing here, i run devuan!
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11:48<petn-randall>sdk: You need to start an ssh-agent for that. Check 'man ssh-agent'. Alternatively, you could just add 'ssh-add path/to/key' to your .bashrc if you need it in your shell.
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11:49<petn-randall>!devuan
11:49<dpkg>Devuan (https://devuan.org/) is a Debian <derivative>, meant to avoid dependencies on <systemd>. Not supported in #debian, please see #devuan on chat.freenode.net for support.
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11:49<petn-randall>Hmpf
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11:51<sdk>petn-randall: I've done that. But every time I open a term after booting it ask me for the password of every key that are in my rc file...
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11:52<petn-randall>sdk: Well, if it's password-protected it's password-pretected. What do you expect?
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11:53<petn-randall>sdk: Making it work automagically means that you need to put the password somewhere, and at this point it's just as good as having not a password at all.
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11:56<sdk>petn-randall: the difference my main computer isn't at risk of being stolen but my laptop is...
11:57<sdk>Plus, on Debian with Mate I don't have to enter my password every time.
11:57<petn-randall>sdk: In what way does your statement relate to mine?
11:57<sdk>you said "at this point it's just as good as having not a password at all."
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11:58<petn-randall>sdk: Well, that statement still holds, even if you have two machines.
11:59<petn-randall>sdk: If you don't want to type the password on your main computer, you can simply remove the password.
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11:59<sdk>...
11:59<sdk>Not if it is the same key
11:59<o11c>my laptop does luks, and I disabled passwords for ssh, so I don't care much about password
12:00<sdk>o11c: luks only protect you if you computer is powered off
12:01<sdk>if someone stole it when it still turned on. Your partition is accessible...
12:01<o11c>crappy battery \o/
12:02<sdk>Anyway I didn't ask for opinion (paternalism) but if there's a program that can do what I want. Obviously, there's some if It work on Mate.
12:03<o11c>sdk: making ssh-add persistent is *really* the same thing as removing the key-password entirely, so ...
12:03<petn-randall>sdk: You could check how mate does it. I assume you have the same user password as the key?
12:03<o11c>oh, ick
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13:21<tyng>the debian policy manual states about binary packages names to look at the source section https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/#package which itself redirect to the binary package section https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/#source
13:21<tyng>where do i find my naming convention?
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14:18<jhutchins>tyng: What are you actually trying to do?
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14:23<tyng>to find out the actual exhaustive naming convention for .deb packages
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14:29<retrospectacus>just curious?
14:40<tt>sdk: 1) actually yes you can remove the passphrase on one machine even if it's the same key
14:40<tt>sdk: 2) you shouldn't use the same key on multiple computers
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14:45<tyng>to be able to reproduce it on my own content
14:47<retrospectacus>what's wrong with the naming rules on the site you linked? Package names (both source and binary, see Package) must consist only of lower case letters (a-z), digits (0-9), plus (+) and minus (-) signs, and periods (.). They must be at least two characters long and must start with an alphanumeric character.
14:47<tyng>that's just the package name not the archive name
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14:50<jimpop>i need to create a short-term local/offline jessie build environment. Is lxc the way to go?
14:50<tyng>ie package name is 'amora-applet'; archive name is 'amora-applet_1.2~svn+git2015.04.25-1+b2_amd64.deb'
14:51<retrospectacus>tyng: packagename underscore version underscore arch dot deb.
14:52<tyng>how about gobjc-8-multilib-mips64el-linux-gnuabi64_8-20171102-1cross1_amd64.deb?
14:52<tyng>does that make sense to you?
14:54<retrospectacus>yes
14:54<tyng>i am seeing name-version-crossarch_dateiso8601-crossversion_arch.deb
14:54<retrospectacus>you can confirm with `dpkg-deb -I gobjc-8-multilib-mips64el-linux-gnuabi64_8-20171102-1cross1_amd64.deb`
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14:55<retrospectacus>judd: v gobjc-8-multilib-mips64el-linux-gnuabi64
14:55<judd>Package: gobjc-8-multilib-mips64el-linux-gnuabi64 on amd64 -- experimental: 8-20171102-1cross1
14:56<retrospectacus>that package has some crazy name and the version includes a date. There's no convention about that, it's what the packager picked.
14:56<tyng>how is '-8' a part of the packagename? what does 1cross1 specifies?
14:57<retrospectacus>ask the maintainer
14:57<tyng>this seems like a more complex standard than 'Package names must consist only of ...'
14:58<tyng>so there is no actual standard for packagenames?
14:58<retrospectacus>it's not a standard. You can see that lots of other packages have non-similar names and versions. This is some unknown convention that the mainainer has used
14:59<retrospectacus>The "standard" is the rules about lower case letters and whatnot, that you found before
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15:02<retrospectacus>software/maintainers can use their own standards to name and version their packages, but it's not specified by Debian
15:03<tyng>i guess i have make up the rules then
15:04<retrospectacus>I guess you can try. Or better yet, don't. Because why would you?
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15:05<tyng>because there aren't any yet
15:06<retrospectacus>why should there be? Who would follow them?
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15:20<tyng>better organizing/sorting when searching for packages and consistency if ie the maintainer change and make up new rules
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15:24<retrospectacus>package names don't (can't) change - if they do, it is a different package. You may note that versions do have a rule: newer versions of the package must have a "larger" version string. See:
15:24<retrospectacus>!compare versions
15:24<dpkg>The canonical way to test whether one version string is considered greater than another is by testing an assertion such as «dpkg --compare-versions 1.1 gt 1.1~rc1 && echo true». See also http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields#s-f-Version , <version epoch>, <debian revision>.
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15:32<retrospectacus>tyng: there is additional detail about version string format on the page you linked.
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18:18<eigenman>Hi... I'm trying to downgrade from testing to debian. I changed sources.list, ran apt-get upgrade, and apt-get dist-upgrade. However, after a reboot, my X server doesn't start any longer. I get an error about "LibEGL.so.1L cannot open shared objec file", but I'm not sure if that's the core cause.
18:19<eigenman>Any suggestions?
18:19<tt>Downgrades are officially unsupported and often painful.
18:19<tt>recommend re-install instead.
18:20<eigenman>Is there an easy way of reinstalling?
18:20<eigenman>Or do I need to find a USB key and start from there?
18:21<tt>Depends. Re-installing my workstation is pretty simple because I have /home separate and nothing much of note installed/configured globally.
18:21<tt>but it's situation-dependent. But yes, from the installer (usb/cd).
18:23<eigenman>(sigh)... thanks.... I'll probably end up having to do that...
18:23<eigenman>I was really hoping to get away with the downgrade. :)
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20:32<grepper>anyone use deluge sucessfully? I can't get it to work, with errors like BadLoginError: Username does not exist and such (running deluge-console as debian-deluged user) and deluge-web unable to connect to the running deluged daemon.
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20:49<tomg>i've only used the GUI version
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21:11-!-semeion is "semeion" on #help #oftc #lxde #debian-br #debian #openbox #bitlbee
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21:31-!-cootcraig is "Craig Anderson" on #suckless #morpheus #debian
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21:33-!-jathan is "jathan" on #fai #debian-es #debian-i18n #debian-l10n-spanish #debian-live #debian-lts #debian-lxqt #debian-mentors #debian-mentors-es #debian-mobile #debian-mysql #debian-next #debian-offtopic #debian-openstack #debian-publicity #debian-quebec #debian-systemd #debconf-infra #debian-mx #debconf-video #debconf18-taiwan #debconf #debian-anarchy #reproducible-builds #debian-reproducible #debian
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21:41<o11c>how portable are the numbers for system groups in /etc/group ?
21:41<o11c>in particular, staff,utmp,mail,shadow,tty which are the only non-root groups (and there are no users) in a minbase tarball
21:41<tt>they're not between OS's
21:41<tt>but they should stay the same on Debian
21:41<tt>unless you create them yourself before the packages get a chance
21:42<o11c>because extracting such a tarball on a host with *different* /etc/group will result in messed up permissions
21:42<tt>that is correct
21:42<o11c>tar does have group maps, but ... then I'd have to manually write that
21:43<o11c>I guess numeric ones are "portable" for the sake of tar, but that loses useful diagnostic info
21:43<o11c>and means you can't just tar up a random chroot
21:46<tt>I can't find the documentation on it
21:48<tt>but UIDs and GIDs 0-99 should be the same across debian systems
21:49<o11c>I knew that much
21:50<o11c>and since this is for chroot's sake, I don't care about BSD
21:53<o11c>but there's a set of numbers here, and they RHEL/SUSE differences, so ... http://softpanorama.org/Access_control/Groups/etc_groups_file.shtml
21:53<tt>Yes, like I said, absolutely not portable across OS's
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21:57-!-grepper is "Robert" on #debian
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22:00<grepper>anyone use deluge sucessfully? I can't get it to work, with errors like BadLoginError: Username does not exist and such (running deluge-console as debian-deluged user) and deluge-web unable to connect to the running deluged daemon.
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22:12-!-tonyyarusso is "Anthony Yarusso" on #linode #debian
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22:59-!-dvs is "realname" on #debian
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23:26<likcoras>grepper: are you sure the deluge daemon has remote connections enabled/authentication set up properly?
23:26<likcoras>Did you follow the instuctions at http://dev.deluge-torrent.org/wiki/UserGuide/ThinClient
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23:55-!-kathenas is "Phil Wyett" on #debian #debian-gnome #debian-reproducible #debian-bugs #debian-www #debconf #debian-cd #debian-qa #debian-offtopic #debian-mentors #debian-derivatives #debian-live #debian-next
---Logclosed Wed Nov 22 00:00:33 2017