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#debian IRC Logs for 2017-11-27

---Logopened Mon Nov 27 00:00:40 2017
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00:04-!-sunilmohan_ is "Sunil Mohan Adapa" on #osdg-iiith #monkeysphere #debian-blends #debian-webapps #debian-js #freedombox-ci #debian-reproducible #debian-in #debian-arm #debian #freedombox #debian-boot #pere
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00:16<codix>hello
00:16<codix>any one there
00:16<codix>?
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00:22<annadane>sigh
00:23<annadane>no. no one in a help channel is there
00:23<o11c>are any of us really here?
00:23<o11c>perhaps our minds are locked in a simulation, and we only imagine that we are here
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00:59<brandonarnold>Thanks to annadane for the helper earlier. Upgrade to Stretch is a thumbs up and seems to solve a couple of apt issues I had.
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01:04<annadane>brandonarnold, oh, good. :)
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03:28<eleanor>Hello. I am new to Debian, but have been an Ubuntu user since 2008. I have just installed my first Debian system and find things are not as I expected: The graphical version of "Software & Updates" does not allow me to change repositories at all and there are no authentication keys. Also the repository has defaulted to http://ftp.uk.debian.org/debian rather than anything with secure access. Synaptic won't start from the menu at all. I
03:28<eleanor>s this expected? Would it be best to redownload the installer and start again?
03:31<jm_>what happens if you start synaptic from a terminal? as for http/https - yes, that's how it is by default
03:33<jm_>also, it's unlikely a new installation would differ
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04:23<hiq[m]>eleanor: you can install the package apt-transport-https to support repositories with TLS enabled, and TLS-enabled mirrors are available here: http://httpredir.debian.org/
04:23<hiq[m]>(look at the end of the web page)
04:23<grawity>hmm I thought apt-transport-https was no longer needed
04:23<grawity>am I confusing stable with testing?
04:24<jm_>yeah that's in testing
04:24<hiq[m]>jm_: because the package is installed by default, or has it been merged with another package?
04:26<jm_>hiq[m]: it's now part of apt, and the package became a transitional one
04:26<grawity>oh right, out of curiosity – I see apt has "Replaces:", does that mean the transitional package automatically gets removed nowadays?
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04:39<chele>hi there. i am trying to generate a certificate from lets encrypt on a machine behind http proxy. I configure system-wide proxy using environment http_proxy and https_proxy but my certbot client still fails to establish connection with network unreachable. Any ideas how to define system-wide http proxy?
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04:39<chele>on stretch
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04:42<chele>solved. sudo was not preserving the environemnt.
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05:51<_kab>I have a question regarding systemd (or systemctl to be more specific) and file descriptors. Back when we were using init scripts to start services they'd inherit file descriptors from the calling process. Is this still the case with systemd or does it drop them like e.g. sudo would?
05:51<_kab>(I guess close is the better term there)
05:53<jm_>are you talking about fd limits or what?
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05:56<_kab>The fd limit isn't the issue. Rather it's a factor that makes things worse. I do not want services to inherit sockets from the process that is starting them. I have a script in place that closes all fds before starting the actual service. However due to a high fd limit this is rather slow. If systemd does that job for me I can just call systemctl directly
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06:01<jm_>yes, apparently systemd closes them
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06:22<grawity>sysetmd doesn't really *need* to close anything
06:22<grawity>since the service is started by pid 1, not by systemctl
06:22<grawity>that's kinda the whole idea of a service manager
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07:15<lelebart>hi everybody, fresh new install. i'd like to keep /, /var, /home, /boot in separate partitions. first of all: is it a good idea? are there any alternative advices? - or: which size each partition? in which order? thanks.
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07:22<jm_>lelebart: probably easier to just keep / and /home separate, installer has an option to do that AFAIR
07:24<lelebart>jm_: ok, thanks. 15GiB is a god size for /?
07:24<_kab>Thank you for your explanation jm_ and grawity: I was called into a meeting and couldn't respond earlier.
07:24<jm_>_kab: no worries
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07:26<jm_>lelebart: that's almost impossible for us to anwser, i.e. you shall know better how many packages you plan to install, what data you'll keep there etc.
07:29<lelebart>jm_: it will be a torrent-box + pi-hole + lxde to move files to external hdd
07:29<jm_>lelebart: ahh in that case you'll probably keep that in /home?
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07:32<qirex>Hi
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07:33<qirex>It's seems like i have some boot error but it flashes too fast
07:33<qirex>Is there any records where i can see?
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07:34<jm_>qirex: try journalctl command if you are using systemd
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07:38<qirex>it is showing a list of information but i dont really understand it
07:40<jm_>it usually colours errors in red
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07:42<qirex>Many things here with only white and a big space of every list with lines counter + information about the kernel version thats
07:42<qirex>but no color different then white
07:44<qirex>my terminal is dark and all listed information is in white thats all
07:45<jm_>try «journalctl -u "*"» as root
07:46<qirex>double --?
07:46<jm_>no just -u
07:47<qirex>it says the option requires an argument -- "u"
07:47<qirex>or something
07:47<lelebart>jm_: yup. or a separate /torrent maybe - maybe not?
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07:47<jm_>well use the full command from above, journalctl -u "*"
07:48<jm_>lelebart: that should work too, in that case I reckon 15G is more than enough to start with
07:48<qirex>oh sorry i didn't noticed thats a part of it
07:49<lelebart>jm_: i'll try with 10GiB sytem, 5GiB /home, the remain torrent?
07:50<qirex>It is showing another list with information
07:50<jm_>lelebart: should be OK too I guess
07:50<jm_>have you tried scrolling the list? maybe the error is not on the first page
07:51<lelebart>jm_: thanks, let's do it. .)
07:51<qirex>yes i scrolled to the maximum allowed in the terminal and usually on the end there is Lines with counter
07:52<qirex>but no red only white
07:52<jm_>does your computer boot into graphical login screen?
07:52<lelebart>jm_: ah, one last thing: which order is better between: /boot (swap) / /home /data and /boot / (swap) /home /data ?
07:53<qirex>yes it is but shows little bit of information before that and it was looking like a warning but im not 100% sure about that
07:54<qirex>its just different then before or idk
07:54<jm_>lelebart: for regular disks they have the fastest sequential speed at the beginning so maybe the first variant to have swap first, but other than that, it doesn't really matter
07:55<jm_>maybe try booting into non-graphical target and then scroll up with shift + page up to see the problematic text
07:56<qirex>how do i turn off this graphical thing?
07:57<lelebart>jm_: small regular (not-ssd) disk, but on the first half of it i'll keep win7 ("just in case" i'll resell with original s/o). so it doesn't matter ;P
07:57<jm_>lelebart: yeah then it doesn't matter
07:58<qirex>brb
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08:00<jm_>try systemd.unit=multi-user.target as boot parameter
08:01<qirex>Im paranoid about the fact i did dual boot with windows
08:02<qirex>it flashes something about cache but it is may be not an error and everything is seems to work normally anyway
08:03<jm_>yeah try dmesg command, does it show up there?
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08:06<qirex>wait should i type the first line
08:06<qirex>i typed only dmesg
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08:06<qirex>and a lot of information pop out + red
08:06<jm_>yeah 'dmesg' is the command
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08:07<qirex>3 msgs in red now
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08:07<qirex>[sdb] No Caching mode page found
08:07<qirex>[sdb] Assuming drive cache: write through
08:08<jm_>if it's not there, try to boot into multi-user.target
08:08<jm_>but I have to run now
08:08<qirex>kvm: disabled by bios
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08:08<qirex>oh ok
08:09<qirex>thanks for the information
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09:24<lelebart>silly question: Intel Atom N450 netbook, amd64 or i386?
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09:29<peter1138>lelebart, https://ark.intel.com/products/42503/Intel-Atom-Processor-N450-512K-Cache-1_66-GHz
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09:32<lelebart>peter1138: yup, i know. but with only 2GiB ram which perform best as a pi-hole?
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10:32<SJH_Manager>hi
10:32<SJH_Manager>i'm on a raspberry pi2
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10:33-!-pamaury is "Amaury Pouly" on #oftc #debian-next #debian-kde #debian
10:33<SJH_Manager>hi
10:35<SJH_Manager> Hello World !
10:36-!-tremon [~aschuring@53541C2B.cm-6-5a.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #debian
10:36-!-tremon is "Arno Schuring" on #debian-mentors #debian
10:36<SJH_Manager> Hello World !
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10:38-!-vonsyd0w is "realname" on #debian #ovirt
10:39<SJH_Manager> Hello World !
10:39<SJH_Manager> Hello World !
10:40<SJH_Manager> Hello World !
10:40<SJH_Manager> Hello World !
10:40<SJH_Manager> Hello World !
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10:42-!-jhutchins_wk is "Jonathan Hutchins" on #oftc #debian
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10:49-!-Vollstrecker_ is "Werner Mahr" on #debian-kde #debian
10:53<o11c>hehe, oops
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10:54-!-ach14113 is "KVIrc 4.9.2 Aria http://kvirc.net/" on #debian
10:54<o11c>I was just about to complain that the `kernel.unprivileged_userns_clone = 1` sysctl still didn't let things work
10:54<o11c>then I realized I was running my scripts in the wrong terminal
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10:57-!-sunilmohan is "Sunil Mohan Adapa" on #debian-blends #freedombox-ci #debian-reproducible #debian-js #debian-boot #debian-in #pere #debian-arm #freedombox #debian-webapps #monkeysphere #debian
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10:59-!-acald3ron is "realname" on #debian-next #debian-es #debian-mx #debian #linode
11:00-!-ach [~spooky@ip-109-43-1-182.web.vodafone.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:00<o11c>... though apparently `tar` is buggy
11:01-!-robertf [~frederic@000178fc.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:03<jhutchins_wk>o11c: Hasn't been buggy for a couple of decades.
11:03-!-jegc [~jegc@167.0.237.97] has quit [Quit: jegc]
11:04<o11c>specifically, it's not prepending the --one-top-level path for hardlinks
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11:05-!-pamaury_ is "Amaury Pouly" on #oftc #debian-next #debian-kde #debian
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11:09-!-yohnnyjoe is "yohnnyjoe" on #debian
11:10<o11c>it's easy enough to write a script to reproduce, but ... honestly I just feel that filing bugs is not worth it
11:10<o11c>half of them never get a response, the other half you get treated like shit for trying to use a feature that's documented
11:11-!-pugspaw [~pugspaw@stnbmb0127w-ds01-72-218.dynamic.bellmts.net] has joined #debian
11:11-!-pugspaw is "pugspaw" on @#debian-ca #debian
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11:14<pugspaw>I'm sorry All. But here needs our help. " https://en.unihelp.by/child/kniazev-vladislav ". I want to believe in people.
11:16<Blacker47>pugspaw, has it anything to do with debian?
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11:17-!-mode/#debian [+o babilen] by ChanServ
11:17-!-pugspaw was kicked from #debian by babilen [you should know better]
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11:17-!-mode/#debian [-o babilen] by babilen
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11:33-!-AzaToth is "Carl Fürstenberg" on #debian-perl #debian-mentors #debian
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11:58<o11c>yay, my privilegeless userns-chroot tool is working now!
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12:01-!-sunilmohan_ is "Sunil Mohan Adapa" on #monkeysphere #debian-reproducible #debian-boot #debian #debian-blends #pere #freedombox-ci #debian-webapps #debian-js #debian-arm #debian-in #freedombox
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12:02-!-wCPO is "Kristian Klausen" on #debian-live #debian-mentors #debian-lxqt #debian-next #debian
12:03<jhutchins_wk>o11c: So people have been using tar since 1979 and nobody's noticed this bug except you?
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12:04-!-zele`pet is "zele`pet" on #oftc
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12:05<o11c>jhutchins_wk: obviously nobody uses the --one-top-level option
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12:05-!-sunilmohan is "Sunil Mohan Adapa" on #debian-blends #freedombox-ci #debian #monkeysphere #debian-webapps #debian-js #debian-boot #debian-arm #pere #debian-reproducible #debian-in #freedombox
12:05<o11c>jhutchins_wk: it's not the first bug I've found in tar, -A was buggy too
12:06<o11c>(not sure if that one ever got fixed)
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12:07<chaos>it's not a bug. it's a feature
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12:12<shawn_>o11c, compressed zstd archived can be concatenated
12:12<shawn_>zstd has a special compatibility with concatenation
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12:13*shawn_ might need to write a tar patch
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12:34<o11c>shawn_: most compression formats are *capable* of it, even if they don't implement "erase the last block" logic in their standard tools
12:34<o11c>shawn_: but I was dealing with uncompressed formats at the time
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13:16<maxim>hello guys
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13:16<maxim>hello man
13:16<annadane>maxim, hi
13:17<maxim>who are u?
13:17<maxim>)
13:17<annadane>maxim, just another user. do you have a debian support question?
13:17<maxim>mo
13:17<bremner>!chat
13:17<dpkg>This is not a chat channel, this is a Debian user support channel. Unless you have a Debian support question, please chat elsewhere, like #debian-offtopic, or #moocows on irc.oftc.net or ##chat on irc.freenode.net.
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13:18<maxim>im only test irssi
13:18<bremner>there's a few better places for that ^
13:18<bremner>there's also #test
13:18<maxim>what you think about ubuntu?
13:20<o11c>!notdebian
13:20<dpkg>Debian is all about policy. Policy guides everything. Knoppix does not have Debian policy, ergo it is not Debian.
13:20<o11c>er, what?
13:21<annadane>probably some inside joke from 2004
13:21<maxim>what gnome in debian buster will be?
13:22<annadane>maxim, too early to tell
13:22<annadane>buster will only be released in... what, a year and a half? so there could be plenty of gnome versions to come out in that time
13:26<maxim>This question will be about monodevelop
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13:28<maxim>When I use MonoDevelop and launch built program, my external console doesn't work
13:29<maxim>how fix that?
13:29<annadane>maxim, okay, by "doesn't work" i assume you mean "doesn't start"
13:29<maxim>Error message "Could not connect to debugger"
13:30<annadane>maxim, is that all it says or is there more?
13:30<maxim>its all
13:31<maxim>external console wwork only in xfce
13:31<maxim>but i use gnome
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13:32<maxim>u can affect on this?
13:32-!-ach14113 is now known as ach
13:32<maxim>inform the maintainers
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13:33<med_>slm
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13:33<annadane>maxim, no need to inform the maintainers; someone who knows about monodevelop and gnome can answer it
13:33<annadane>maxim, or try debian-user@lists.debian.org
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13:34<med_>are you use a parrot ?
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13:34<annadane>!parrot
13:34<dpkg>Parrot OS (https://www.parrotsec.org/) is a security and penetration testing distribution. It is based on Debian testing, but it is not Debian and is not supported in #debian. Seek help in #parrot on irc.frozenbox.org or try the mailing lists at http://lists.parrotsec.org/listinfo. Also ask me about <based on debian>.
13:34<annadane>med_, ^
13:35<o11c>ah, I was thinking of !based on debian earlier
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13:35<o11c>probably !not debian should become an alias or something
13:35<med_>what is the roll of wireshark ?
13:36<tt>role?
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13:36<maxim>йгше
13:36<tt>it's a network packet capture/inspection thing. has a nice GUI.
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13:37<maxim>quit
13:37<tt>so similar to ngrep and tcpdump
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13:37<annadane>https://packages.debian.org/stretch/wireshark "network traffic analyzer - meta-package"
13:37<maxim>how quit?)
13:37<rovebiy>hello
13:37<tt>maxim: IRC commands begin with /
13:37<tt>maxim: /quit
13:37<annadane>rovebiy, hi
13:38<maxim>tt thank
13:38<annadane>actually, what is the default packet inspection in debian, anyway?
13:38<bremner>tcpdump?
13:38<tt>there's no "default" for something like that
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13:38<tt>several options, install and use what you like; most users will never
13:38<tt>well most debian users will. but you know what I mean.
13:38<annadane>yeah i just wondered what was installed by default
13:38<bremner>probably none
13:39<annadane>fair enough
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13:41<tt>annadane: you can use aptitude to query for a list of packages by priority... Essential, Required, Important are pretty much always installed, Standard are usually always installed. There's your "defaults" :)
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14:07<shawn_>do I have to manually enumerate PATH to check for a program?
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14:08<tremon>shawn_: no, the shell already does that for you. just run the program
14:08<shawn_>in C
14:09<tremon>you're asking in #debian
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14:21<o11c>shawn_: the only reason shells do it is for speed if the same program is used multiple times
14:21<o11c>shawn_: though since they don't use inotify, that has drawbacks
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14:22<tt>well. I think the shell has to search PATH manually regardless.
14:22<tt>you don't have to know the path to use system() in C, but that uses the shell
14:22<tt>so if the shell tries to shortcut with system() that's kindof a catch-22, innit?
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14:26<o11c>tt: huh?
14:26<o11c>execvpe is the relevant function here
14:27<tt>fair enough, til. I didn't know there was a library function that would do that for you.
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14:41<rovebiy_>Do I need to install Debian on a ssd
14:42<rovebiy_>?
14:42<shawn_>rovebiy_, no
14:42<grawity>no, you can install it on a hdd
14:42<shawn_>but its faster if you do
14:42<grawity>no, you can install other distros on it
14:42<grawity>no, you can run it without installing
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14:43<annadane>rovebiy_, it doesn't matter; what matters is the architecture
14:43<jhutchins_wk>rovebiy_: Only you can really say if you need to install it on an SSD.
14:43<annadane>so for example you can't install an amd64 image on arm
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14:45<rovebiy_>I see
14:49<rovebiy_>I want to install debian on a ssd,but I find it doesn't speed up obviously
14:49<rovebiy_>like windows
14:49<o11c>rovebiy_: choice of filesystem matters, too
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14:50<petn-randall>rovebiy_: Mine is quite a bit faster compared to using rotating platters, but YMMV.
14:51<jhutchins_wk>Depends on the task.
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14:51<petn-randall>Also, some SSDs don't cope well with ATA TRIM, so you might want to check that first and make sure it's not set in /etc/fstab for those partitions.
14:51<shawn_>rovebiy_, use of shared libraries means Debian is smaller than Windows
14:51<jhutchins_wk>On my SSD system I get a full 1G download, on my HD system I get 500-800M.
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14:55<rovebiy_>ah
14:55<rovebiy_>Thanks for your advice!
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14:56<rovebiy_>I think i know how to choose.
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14:58<annadane>also i guess i'll be a shill for debian and state that it's advertised as The Universal Operating System
14:58<annadane>you can practically run it on a toaster
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14:59<shawn_>esp. now that it can be bootstrapped
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15:03<jhutchins_wk>http://strangehorizons.com/non-fiction/articles/installing-linux-on-a-dead-badger-users-notes/
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15:32<tt>ugh, I wish I could have pointed out to rovebiy_ that Linux doesn't noticably speed up on SSD the way Windows does because Linux is smarter about caching etc., and just in general there's less brokenness that can be hidden by fast disk than there is on Windows. I guess that's an opinion though / I can't prove it.
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15:48<annadane>tt, memoserv
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15:48<tt>meh.
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16:04<raphael17>wl
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16:07<raphael17>join <debian>
16:07<circ-user-kKCE5>hey, guys!
16:07<raphael17>hello
16:07<annadane>raphael17, hi, you're in #debian already
16:07<circ-user-kKCE5>wow, irc is bringing back memories :D long time no use
16:09<circ-user-kKCE5>look, I am using the latest version of debian, 4.9.51-1 and it is meant to be used as an vpn server
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16:09<circ-user-kKCE5>sadly, I tried soooo many tutorials and scripts from the internet but without success..
16:09<shawn_>circ-user-kKCE5, did you install command-not-found?
16:10<circ-user-kKCE5>does anyone have any knowledge about these things?
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16:10<circ-user-kKCE5>excuse me? XD
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16:10<shawn_>tutorials usually require command that are not installed, and command-not-found notices that
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16:10<circ-user-kKCE5>i have a little bit of knowledge of linux and i managed to do it just as they do
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16:11<circ-user-kKCE5>but i got a little problem, the problem is that the server got 3 NICs
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16:11<annadane>shawn_, better to see their problem rather than just assume the tutorial is wrong
16:11*shawn_ uses ssh -D
16:11<circ-user-kKCE5>internal one with proxy, internat one with NAT, and external one
16:11<eleanor>Hello, can somebody help me? I have installed debian on my writing computer. I am trying to follow a guide to install my nvidia graphics card drivers but every time I install the drivers, cinnamon stops working
16:12<circ-user-kKCE5>i managed to do it working from inside to exterior, but i can't do it working from exterior to interior..
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16:12<circ-user-kKCE5>is anyone willing to help me in order to stop spamming here? :D
16:12<eleanor>and my screen resolution is set to 1024x768. The computer should be able to run much higher resolutions, it has an nvidia gtx 960 video card
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16:15<eleanor>or can somebody tell me where can I get technical help with this, please?
16:15<eleanor>I'd like to finish setting up this computer so I can start working again
16:17<tt>you should be able to use higher resolution w/o installing the proprietary drivers. if you are going to install the proprietary drivers, make sure you use Debian's instructions to do so.
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16:17<tt>you're not connected to an LCD w/ a native resolution of 1024x768 are you?
16:17<tt>you can run 'xrandr' to see a list of available modes
16:17<eleanor>no. I have a 42'' flat screen
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16:18<eleanor>Screen 0: minimum 640 x 480, current 1024 x 768, maximum 1024 x 768
16:18<eleanor>default connected primary 1024x768+0+0 0mm x 0mm
16:18<eleanor>xrandr says that
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16:19<tt>I do beleive that means your monitor/tv is reporting 1024x768 as it's max. not 100% sure, but I think so. and it's sadly not uncommon for them to be buggy in that respect.
16:20<tt>you can override the EDID, but I don't know how.
16:21<eleanor>but I had windows 10 prior to installing debian and it ran on much higher resolutions without issues. If I install the nvidia drivers via apt-get install nvidia-drivers then cinnamon or gnome wont start
16:21<eleanor>and I have to roll back the installation
16:21<eleanor>and if I leave it this way it says something like running in safe mode without hardware acceleration
16:21<eleanor>or something along those lines
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16:22<eleanor>eleanor@misty:~$ inxi -Gx
16:22<eleanor>Graphics: Card: NVIDIA GM206 [GeForce GTX 960] bus-ID: 03:00.0
16:22<eleanor> Display Server: X.Org 1.19.2 drivers: vesa,nouveau (unloaded: modesetting,fbdev)
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16:23<tt>oh, if it's using the vesa driver that prob. explains it
16:23<jhutchins_wk>eleanor: 1024x768 is often a symptom of the system using the vesa driver because the card-specific driver has failed.
16:23<tt>not sure why it would not use nouveau
16:23<eleanor>:o
16:24<jhutchins_wk>tt: I think that's listing the drivers that will work with that card.
16:24<tt>yeah I have no clue what inxi is
16:24<tt>but he mentioned 'safe mode' message
16:24<eleanor>she*
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16:24<tt>whichever
16:24<eleanor>and yeah it's running in safe mode / can't install my writing software for work
16:24<tt>sorry, didn't mean that how it sounds
16:25<eleanor>np :)
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16:26<o11c>eleanor: NVidia drivers are always a crapshoot, AMD tends to work somewhat better, and Intel drivers run the best by far.
16:26<tt>I didn't know debian even had the 'safe mode' thing, and don't know how to investigate/configure it :/
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16:26<o11c>and there's nothing we can do about it
16:27<annadane>we can link torvalds_middle_finger.jpg
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16:27<eleanor>my work software crashes when I start it and my technician says it's because it needs to work on a higher resolution
16:27<eleanor>and I should install my drivers (??)
16:27<eleanor>but he won't do linux / os x
16:27<tt>at the very least you want to be using the nouveau driver
16:28<tt>do you have an /etc/X11/xorg.conf ?
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16:30<jhutchins_wk>tt: inxi is pretty easy to google.
16:30<tt>if there is one, try moving it to like xorg.conf.old and starting X w/o one
16:30<eleanor>no there's no xorg.conf
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16:30<tt>jhutchins_wk: :/ is that necessary
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16:30<jhutchins_wk>eleanor: Which release is this, and is it a clean install or an upgrade?
16:30<eleanor>debian 9 stretch, clean install
16:31<eleanor>no dual boot. single install on a single drive
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16:31<tt>can you upload your Xorg log file
16:32<jhutchins_wk>tt: She won't have one. systemd got it.
16:32<eleanor>ttps://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/FeatureMatrix/
16:32<tt>jhutchins_wk: oh?
16:32<eleanor>ignore that
16:32<eleanor>eleanor@misty:~$ uname -a
16:32<eleanor>Linux misty 4.9.0-3-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.9.30-2+deb9u5 (2017-09-19) x86_64 GNU/Linux
16:32<eleanor>there
16:32<eleanor>that's exactly it
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16:34<jhutchins_wk>tt: Oops, not on stretch. Possibly on buster.
16:34<tt>was gonna say, I still have it on stretch
16:34<tt>although depending on config it can be in ~ now instead of /var/log
16:34<jhutchins_wk>eleanor: /var/log/Xorg.0.log is very noisy, but should have some clues to what's going on, as should dmesg | less
16:35<jhutchins_wk>tt: Yeah, I'm not sure what the variables are, or when it makes the switch to systed journal on Debian.
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16:37<annadane>you can foo | less?!
16:37<tt>lol
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16:38<eleanor>log says
16:38<eleanor>[ 25.455] (WW) VESA(0): Unable to estimate virtual size
16:38<eleanor>[ 25.455] (II) VESA(0): Not using built-in mode "1920x1080" (hsync out of range)
16:38<eleanor>??
16:38<tt>that's after your problem started though, because it's the vesa driver not nouveau
16:39<eleanor>I wouldn't know how to use nouveau instead of vesa
16:39<tt>it should be automatic
16:39<eleanor>xserver-xorg-video-nouveau is already the newest version (1:1.0.13-3).
16:39<eleanor>0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 1 not upgraded.
16:39<eleanor>root@misty:/var/log# ^C
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16:40<eleanor>mysterious ;_;
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16:41<tt>eleanor: does `lsmod | grep nouveau` print anything?
16:42<tt>also check dmesg for any nouveau-related errors
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16:42<eleanor>root@misty:/home/eleanor# `lsmod | grep nouveau`
16:42<eleanor>bash: nouveau: command not found
16:43<o11c>eleanor: er, try that again
16:43<shawn_>try without the back-ticks "`"
16:43<eleanor>okies
16:43<tt>it should work with or without the backticks, which is why I use backticks for quoting commands on IRC :)
16:43<tt>but I didn't intend you to enter them
16:43<o11c>tt: er ...
16:43<tt>oh
16:43<tt>nm
16:44<shawn_>tt, it doesn't work with them because of the |
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16:44<o11c>shawn_: no
16:44<tt>shawn_: it would need to be like, echo `whatever`
16:44<nodiscc>do you think it's appropriate to close this RFP? https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=203211
16:44<eleanor>http://paste.ubuntu.com/26060633/
16:44<judd>Bug http://bugs.debian.org/203211 in wnpp (open): «RFP: avidemux -- a video editing software»; severity: wishlist; opened: 2003-07-28; last modified: 2017-05-12.
16:44<o11c>what's happening is that it *is* succeeding, but then trying to run the result
16:44<eleanor>it printed that
16:44<o11c>so we know that eleanor *does* have it
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16:45<nodiscc>last time there was interest in it was 2014
16:45<nodiscc>and there are good alternatives to avidemux in debian packages already
16:46<tt>eleanor: pastebin your Xorg log file
16:46<eleanor>it's endless are you sure? haha
16:46<eleanor>and there are several
16:46<eleanor>0, or 1.log?
16:46<tt>look at the dates
16:47<tt>it all depends on how you're running it and stuff
16:47<tt>possibly both
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16:48<eleanor>http://paste.ubuntu.com/26060644/
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16:52<tt>anyone know if "(EE) open /dev/dri/card0: No such file or directory" error is relevant?
16:53<jhutchins_wk>tt: nouveau is the xorg driver, I think the kernel driver has a different name.
16:53<shawn_>tt, what resolution are you getting?
16:53<shawn_>eleanor, ^
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16:54<tt>jhutchins_wk: well there's kms stuff, but there is nouveau kernel module
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16:54<tt>at any rate, she has that, and also xorg is loading nouveau driver. just seems to be choosing not to use it, but not for any errors etc. reasons
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16:54<tt>perhaps her card is newer than the pciids in this version of kernel/x driver?
16:55<jhutchins_wk>tt: My system uses nv for the kernel driver.
16:55<eleanor>1024x768, shawn_
16:55<shawn_>nv is non-free crap, but yeah there are some systemd that require it
16:55<tt>I think nv is the old one?
16:55<tt>before nouveau
16:55<tt>oh
16:55<tt>no it's the 2d driver that nvidia helps with
16:56<shawn_>tt, but its full of unnamed registers
16:56<tt>they refuse to help w/ open-source 3d driver
16:56<jhutchins_wk>tt: My card's a titanium.
16:56<tt>jhutchins_wk: ok?
16:56<shawn_>tt, which is why it was removed from debian
16:56<tt>jhutchins_wk: maybe you should just google it
16:56<jhutchins_wk>tt: Not "older".
16:56<jhutchins_wk>,v nv
16:56<tt>also please odn't correct me after I correct myself
16:56<judd>No package named 'nv' was found in amd64.
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17:02<circ-user-kKCE5_>guys
17:02<circ-user-kKCE5_>ERROR: asynchronous network error report on ens256 (sport=4500) for message to 86.125.100.125 port 4500, complainant xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx: No route to host [errno 113, origin ICMP type 3 code 1 (not authenticated)]
17:02<circ-user-kKCE5_>any idea what should i do?
17:02<tt>eleanor: I suppose you could try generating an xorg.conf (with `Xorg -configure`), then going into the Device section of it and setting the Driver option to "nouveau". I doubt it will work, but might at least cause an error message with a hint.
17:02<circ-user-kKCE5_>its about openswan on a debian
17:03<circ-user-kKCE5_>it is about the server side or the client side?
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17:03<eleanor>it won't let me run configure
17:03<eleanor>it says xorg is already running
17:04<tt>you'll have to logout of X, switch to text console, and stop the graphical login
17:04<eleanor>alrighty brb
17:05<tt>I forget the systemd commands but the old `telinit 3` to switch to text mode and `telinit 5` to go back to grpahics should work
17:05<eleanor>I do alt ctrl f2 / f7 to swithc back and forth
17:05<eleanor>but it doesn't stop cinnamon
17:05<circ-user-kKCE5_>guys?.. anyone can pay a moment for me, please? :(
17:05<o11c>systemctl stop xdm for some xdm (gdm, sddm, ...)
17:06<tt>eleanor: right, my commands will.
17:06<shawn_>circ-user-kKCE5_, did you try using ssh -D ? its not as fast as a UDP proxy, but its easy to setup
17:07<circ-user-kKCE5_>...
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17:12<tt>jhutchins: according to https://www.x.org/wiki/nv/ nv has been deprecated since 2010, jsyk
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17:14<eleanor>sorry for that
17:14<eleanor>so it says "Cinnamon is currently running without video hardware acceleration and, as a result, you may observe much higher than normal CPU usage. There could be a problem with your drivers or some other issue. For best experience, it is recommmended that you only use this mode for troubleshooting purposes
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17:15<eleanor>I wonder if there's any way to run cinnamon in "normal" mode haha
17:15<tt>it's been saying that the whole time right?
17:16<tt>(vesa driver does not support accel)
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17:17<eleanor>yup
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17:20<eleanor>apparently cinnamon won't work with my card or so it seems
17:20<eleanor>I'll try installing a different desktop environment although that doesn't seem to make much sense
17:20<eleanor>(sorry if my english is a bit wtf it's my 2nd language)
17:21<o11c>eleanor: it's not cinnamn, and it's not the kernel, so it must be X somehow
17:22<tt>^^ this is correct
17:22<annadane>your english is fine
17:22<tt>and your english is great heh
17:22<annadane>like everyone else who apologizes about their english
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17:22<eleanor>haha ok ty :P
17:22<tt>not everyone :)
17:23<o11c>eleanor: maybe try fixing the program in the drm-kms(7) man page ... I swear there was a tool that did it directly though ...
17:23<o11c>possibly somewhere in the mesa tooling there's something that operates below X, but I'm not that familiar with it
17:24<tt>eleanor: it's easy to suspect the nvidia proprietary drivers of breaking something and then not fixing it on uninstall. they're famous for that.
17:24<eleanor>:(
17:24<tt>but it sounded like 1) you were trying to install them the debian way, which helps with that and 2) that this problem started before you attempted that
17:24<eleanor>I really am liking this combo of Mac OSX / Debian
17:24<eleanor>I don't want to go back to windows :(
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17:25<eleanor>but I need to get this computer working asap
17:25<tt>eleanor: If it's convenient, you could boot a Debian Live off a USB stick, and see if *that* uses the correct driver, or is also stuck on vesa / low-res
17:25<eleanor>hmm
17:26<tt>if it's also stuck, you know it's not nvidia proprietary's fault.
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17:26<o11c>eleanor: did you ever paste your dmesg?
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17:28<o11c>eleanor: `journalctl --dmesg` shows all of them if the kernel buffer gets truncated
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18:00<eleanor>fixed it
18:00<eleanor>:D
18:00<eleanor>pure intuition
18:00<eleanor>so the problem is in some lib* files
18:01<eleanor>basically after doing the nvidia driver type apt upgrade lib*
18:01<eleanor>and that took care of it
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18:02<tt>weird! but good news!
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18:02<lavamind>since I've upgraded this xen domU to stretch, almost everything is several times slower, eg. mandp -pq (when installing a package) can take up to 30 seconds
18:02<lavamind>trying to figure out what it could be, other domU on this server are fine
18:02<lavamind>any ideas?
18:03<lavamind>the load average is around 0.10 stable
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18:05<tt>presumably it's disk I/O that's slow
18:05<tt>but why I wouldn't know
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18:07<eleanor>it works wonderfully now and I have the nvidia settings control panel too
18:08<eleanor>I'd take a screenshot if I knew how
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18:08<lavamind>tt: hdparm hints that the disk i/o is within 10% of what is available in other vms on this host
18:09<lavamind>maybe something like apparmor could be slowing down processes ? no sure
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18:09<LtL>eleanor: use scrot to take a screenshot
18:10<laurent_>Hey guys, with a standard NAT setup with iptables, does routing takes precedence or does NAT goes first?
18:10-!-eleanor is now known as ellie
18:11<tt>they work together, you need both
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18:13<laurent_>I'm just wondering if packets arriving on the "router/nat" might be NATed instead of routed as I can't see them hitting the next hop
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18:16<tt>feel free to post your iptables rules & output of `ip route show` to a pastebin and I can look at them
18:16<tt>are you trying to connect to services on the external interface of your NAT box, from within the LAN?
18:16<tt>for that to work correctly you need a SNAT rule
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18:17<laurent_>Not exactly, the NAT box should route those packets to another internal IP, but im checking if they are actually getting routed correctly.
18:17<tt>oh that's actually what I meant sorry
18:17<laurent_>Pinging that particular subnet directly from the NAT box works fine.
18:18<tt>do you have a portforward to a LAN service, and you're trying to access it via the external address from the LAN?
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18:19<tt>anyway just post your rules & routes, and tell me the IPs etc. in question
18:19<laurent_>Will do, thank you.
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18:23<tt>I'll brb
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18:32<laurent_>Ah got it, seems like with DROP as a default policy, iptables wont allow a packet to enter and exit the same interface
18:32<laurent_>had to allow in eth0 and out eth0 in the FORWARD chain.
18:32<tt>yes
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18:33<tt>just make sure you're not still unintentionall DNAT'ing
18:33<tt>i.e. make sure your NAT rule has like -o eth1 or whatever
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20:03<ivan>how come pkgreport.cgi is unable to list all the bugs on the linux package
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20:14<mnuhmnuh>ivan: no idea what you're talking about. use tracker.debian.org
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20:19<tp43_>I don't know if it cause I upgrade from jessie to stitch or cause I am using backports, but things got messy with dependencies, I mean things working fine but apt giving errors
20:20<tp43_>And I installed inkscape from backports and it went ahead and mentioned it would install a ton of other stuff, so I did it, now a day later or so, I just did apt-get upgrade for the heck of it, and again a big long list of stuff.
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20:21<tp43_>I feel like downloading the cd for stitch and just doing a fresh install, but then I will want inkscape from backports, and that might be cause of these problem. I think backports is a bit of pain, more than upgrading to the next stable.
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20:23<mnuhmnuh>tp43_: sounds like you're in frankendebian country. post your /etc/apt/sources.lis to paste.debian.org pls.
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20:24<mnuhmnuh>list
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20:24<tp43_>mnuhmnuh, oh yeah that is another thing, my google-chrome source gives problems when I do apt-get update -says duplicates, 1 sec I will post it
20:25<tp43_>paste.debian.org fails to load
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20:26<mnuhmnuh>sry, paste.debian.net
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20:27<tp43_>http://paste.debian.net/997911/
20:29<blast007>note that inkscape isn't in stretch-backports.
20:30<blast007>(0.92.1 is in the main stretch repo)
20:30<mnuhmnuh>tp43_: others may know better, but i don't see anything obviously ugly there. maybe you just need a lot of updates?
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20:32<mnuhmnuh>tp43_: on the other hand, backup data and re-install, just to be sure.
20:34<mnuhmnuh>inkscape is in buster/testing, fwiw.
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20:35<ivan>mnuhmnuh: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?src=linux 500 Internal Server Error
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20:38<tp43_>blast007, thx
20:39<tp43_>mnuhmnuh, thx
20:39<tp43_>if inkscape 0.92 is in main repo, I am gtg, just re-install. I've had trouble with backports before, it is for experts.
20:44<mnuhmnuh>ivan: use tracker.debian.org
20:45<ivan>"use a thing that doesn't list the bugs"... alright
20:49<mnuhmnuh>rly? https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/linux
20:50<mnuhmnuh>pick your flavour and dig in.
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20:50<mnuhmnuh>top right, "bugs"
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20:52<mnuhmnuh>sheesh. # :-)
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21:00<blast007>mnuhmnuh: that just links to the same thing he was saying throws a 500 Internal Server Error
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21:10<mnuhmnuh>blast007: so, drill down. what's causing the kernel to report that? what don't we know that he hasn't told us about? what else is involved?
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21:28<ivan>a vast government conspiracy, of course, men in black holding down a cgi script with a timeout or something
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21:33<ivan>I wonder if emailing owner@bugs.debian.org will solve it :-)
21:34<o11c>well, supposedly the anti-net-neutrality people have a lot of takedown- and spam- bots active right now, so ...
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21:36<ivan>https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=803488 heh, old bug
21:36<judd>Bug http://bugs.debian.org/803488 in bugs.debian.org (open): «bugs.debian.org: "500 Internal Server Error" on kernel team's bug list»; severity: normal; opened: 2015-10-30; last modified: 2016-03-16.
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21:49<mnuhmnuh>finally, someone has concrete data! Er, wut? "I confirmed that the bug is not reproducible anymore."
21:52<o11c>TL;DR the kernel team doesn't fix bugs, just leaves them to rot. This breaks the server.
21:52<mnuhmnuh>o11c: BS.
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21:57<ivan>Debian has the best kernel packaging I've looked at so far
21:57<ivan>it's fixed about as much as is possible to fix without being upstream
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22:00<o11c>mnuhmnuh: if it's BS, why is the kernel team's packaging report the only one long enough to break the server?
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22:01<o11c>and other than not fixing bugs, the main thing I'm aware of is having to tell people "it just works, unless you're on Debian in which case you go have to fiddle with your kernel command line or sysctl.conf"
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22:42<BrandonArnold>exit
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22:45<mnuhmnuh>o11c: 1: i don't believe debian suffers bugs they can't squash. 2: try slackware; straight from upstream sources all, no handholding, works great and i reccomend it; have fun!
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23:23<tt>and as always, patches welcome.
23:23-!-cnote [~cnote@pool-72-80-155-27.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:24<tt>be the change you want to see in the world.
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---Logclosed Tue Nov 28 00:00:42 2017