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#debian IRC Logs for 2017-11-29

---Logopened Wed Nov 29 00:00:43 2017
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00:41<[E]sc>i can't get my webcam via usb working.. the vlc crashes and doesn't show up anything. same with uvcview. it's a generic webcam but worked immediately via vlc when plugging in to my laptop using MINT.
00:41<[E]sc>any suggestions?
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00:47<ivan>[E]sc: check the journal; run vlc in a terminal and look for a cause
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01:40<[E]sc>ivan, thanks. it says something about uvcvideo: Failed to query (SET_CUR) UVC control... any idea about this?
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02:23<r00tsec>hello
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03:07<ivan>[E]sc: you might need some nonfree firmware packages
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03:31<TaZeR>im confused as too which type of debian installation i require, there is amd64 which i know is regular 64 bits but also something called multiarch amd64_i386?
03:31<TaZeR>if i had ubuntu 64 bit installed before, did i have just 64 or multiarch?
03:32<ivan>TaZeR: you don't need multiarch, if you need i386 e.g. for wine you can always add it later
03:33<TaZeR>so it makes no difference as far as installation and configuration?
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03:35<ivan>well, I assume multiarch will install a bunch of i386 libraries
03:36<jm_>yes just start with pure amd64
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03:36<TaZeR>makes sense, thank you
03:36<jm_>also, where do you see that amd64_i386 thing?
03:37<TaZeR>https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/9.2.1+nonfree/multi-arch/iso-cd/
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03:39<jm_>let's see what that is
03:39<jm_>but yeah just proceed with amd64
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03:41<jm_>that one allows you to install either amd64 or x86 release so if you already have it, it will work too
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05:31<ivan>killed two hours messing around with efibootmgr until I found the boot option efi_no_storage_paranoia
05:31<ivan>UEFI is so much fun
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05:35<ivan>see, sometimes the NVRAM has plenty of space for another Boot variable but Linux returns ENOSPC because some motherboards brick themselves if they get too full
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06:37<inter>so i installed debian on a wired connection, then installed my wireless chips firmware bcm43x and iwconfig has wlan0 there but i dont see the little connection thing in the system tray where i can choose my network?
06:38<jm_>tried https://wiki.debian.org/WiFi/HowToUse ?
06:38<inter>i used the netinstall so i guess it didnt install something because it thought i dont have wireless
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06:38<inter>yea i didnt see anything about that in there
06:39<inter>it should be configured to work from what i can tell
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06:39<inter>wpa_supplicant is install etc.
06:40<jm_>the network manager thingy should show an icon I suppose, so network-manager-gnome
06:40<jm_>but you'll want to configure it first
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06:42<inter>im not using gnome though, i am using lxqt, would that still be the correct one to install?
06:44<jm_>ok so lxqt installs cmst or network-manager-gnome
06:44<jm_>is either one installed?
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06:45<jm_>otherwise at least using the connman CLI as described on the WiFi/HowToUse wiki page shall show something
06:46<inter>no it wasnt, i will try installing it now
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06:47<jm_>ahh yeah it's a Recommends, not Depends, my bad
06:47<jm_>so sometimes allowing recommends makes sense
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06:50<inter>oh i do have cmst installed actually
06:50<inter>and connman, but it says its for intel connections only?
06:50<jm_>who says that?
06:51<inter>the description says "intel connection manager" maybe i misunderstand
06:51<inter>so if i have it, how come i dont see it in the panel or anywhere?
06:51<jm_>right, the one liner description is suboptimal I guess - see the full one instead: apt show connman
06:52<inter>yep that makes more sense
06:52<jm_>good question, no idea about that - is cmst running?
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06:53<inter>no it wasnt, it is now, i think it will be working fine now
06:53<inter>i didnt know what i was looking for in order to launch it, now i do :)
06:53<inter>thank you very much good sir
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06:54<jm_>so maybe enable its autostart in lxqt somewhere
06:54<jm_>no problem
06:56<inter>i checked autostart in its preferences
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07:19<delarioja>hola
07:19<delarioja>hello
07:19<delarioja>ola bebe
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09:04<minikdo>Hi. 9.2. How to change (resize) fonts in LUKS passphrase prompt at boot?
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09:05<petn-randall>minikdo: Are you getting a graphical prompt, or a text mode one?
09:05<minikdo>text mode
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09:06<petn-randall>minikdo: I believe you can change that with 'dpkg-reconfigure -plow console-setup', though I'm not sure if it gets loaded that early in the boot process. It's worth a try.
09:07<minikdo>petn-randall: dpkg-reconfigure didn't work for me.
09:07<Patty>I found instructions to upgrade Wheezy to Jessie.
09:07<Patty>http://www.pontikis.net/blog/debian-upgrade-wheezy-to-jessie
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09:08<Patty>Is that correct link I can follow to upgarde Wheezy to Jessie?
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09:08<petn-randall>minikdo: What does "didn't work" mean in your case?
09:08<minikdo>petn-randall: I tried that and it didn't change my fonts
09:09<minikdo>it gets loaded earlier, like you said.
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09:16<petn-randall>minikdo: Then there's probably no way to configure it.
09:17<minikdo>petn-randall: hmm, through /etc/initramfs-tools?
09:17<minikdo>my fonts are very small on a full HD screen
09:19<petn-randall>minikdo: one solution is to use splash, which IIRC scales it to the right size.
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09:26<KOJIbKA>minikdo: That is my point of interest! What kind of monitor did you manage to upgrade to?
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09:30<minikdo>1920x1080
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09:45<jhutchins>minikdo: You can specify a resolution on the kernel command line.
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09:55<minikdo>jhutchins: I've got GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX=""
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10:12<[E]sc>ivan, thanks. it says it can't find the device? yet the lsusb shows the webcam there... so i dont know
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10:32<eleanor>How can I run synaptic from the command line? Typing "synaptic" returns "command not found"
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10:32<redberry>dpkg: warning: version '4.14.1-amd 4.14.2' has bad syntax: invalid character in revision number <-- is this a bug or what? according to the rules, thats fine
10:32<dpkg>redberry: That isn't enough detail, post the whole output to a pastebin (/msg dpkg pastebin).
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10:34<redberry>yes, that is enough detail. thats ALL the detail there is
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10:39<grove>redberry: No, it's not. Just one of the things missing: What are you trying to do
10:41<petn-randall>!context
10:41<dpkg>Try to give enough context! For example, let us know which command/program you are running, what you expected, and what you got instead. Try to be as specific as possible. If your command produced output, share the complete command (with all parameters!) and its output on https://paste.debian.net.
10:41<petn-randall>redberry: ^^^
10:48<Brigo>eleanor, are you sure it is installed?
10:48<Brigo>eleanor, in /usr/sbin/synaptic
10:48<Brigo>maybe you don't have /usr/sbin in your $PATH
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11:27<redberry>grove - im not trying to do anything. but i did upgrade the nvidia driver.
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11:28<redberry>grove - it doesnt seem to be a bug: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=848608#10
11:28<judd>Bug http://bugs.debian.org/848608 in dkms (open): «dkms: bogus warning: version 'xxx\nyyy' has bad syntax: invalid character in version number»; severity: normal; opened: 2016-12-18; last modified: 2017-02-19.
11:28<redberry>err, *does
11:28<retrospectacus>telling us the command you ran to produce that, might have helped us help you faster
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11:29<redberry>ok. "sudo apt-get upgrade"
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11:33<retrospectacus>too late now
11:33<Patty>Hi, I am upgrading Wheezy to Jessie by following this link http://www.pontikis.net/blog/debian-upgrade-wheezy-to-jessie. But when I run "apt-get update && apt-get -V upgrade" at step 5 it pops up a UI for 'Package Configuration' with 'ok' button. But it doesn't respond to any of my key stroke. 'ok' button is not focused neither. It just gets stuck on this Screen. Any help will be appreciated!
11:34<retrospectacus>press Tab to get to OK then space to hit it
11:34<redberry>yeah, no worries. the mystery is solved anyways, its a known bug
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11:35<retrospectacus>also just a warning. Sounds like your thing installed anyways
11:36<Patty>retrospectacus, Tab works. So awesome! You are my hero!!! Thanks so much!
11:36<redberry>yes, dkms still installs drivers correctly at least.
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11:38<redberry>it should be an easy fix, not sure why it hasnt been yet. probably low priority since it doesnt actually do any harm. but a good example for scripters to not make assumptions and instead just parse the real system info instead. its not hard
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11:40<redberry>catch you later & happy debian'ing!
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11:49<jhutchins_wk>wheezy->jessie
11:49<jhutchins_wk>! wheezy->jessie
11:49<dpkg>Read (at least) the upgrading chapter of the <release notes> http://deb.li/ldcj . In /etc/apt/sources.list, change "wheezy" to "jessie". apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade. 3rd party repos like <dmo> are known to cause problems with the upgrade. See also <jessie sysvinit>.
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11:50<naga93>hi
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11:51<naga93>I have problme on my ubuntu
11:51<naga93>can someone help me
11:51<naga93>to repair my vidalia
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11:51<annadane>!ubuntu
11:51<dpkg>Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian. Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu on chat.freenode.net instead. Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian. See also <based on debian> and <ubuntuirc>.
11:51<annadane>naga93, ^
11:52<naga93>ya
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11:52<naga93>okey
11:52<naga93>thanks dude
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11:52<iwonttochoosenames>hello
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11:57<Patty>After I ran 'apt-get dist-upgrade' I got errors. 'dpkg: error processing archive /var/cache/apt/archives/udev_215-17+deb8u7_amd64.deb (--unpack): subprocess new pre-installation script returned error exit status 1 update-rc.d: warning: start and stop actions are no longer supported; falling back to defaults update-rc.d: warning: start and stop actions are no longer supported; falling back to defaults Errors were encountered while processing: /var/cache/a
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11:58<Patty>Any idea? thanks
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12:01<petn-randall>!bat
12:01<dpkg>In order to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, apt or aptitude we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use http://paste.debian.net/ to provide us with this information. Also ask me about <localized errors>.
12:02<petn-randall>Patty: Can you provide all of the above in a single paste? ^^^
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12:05<tda>i have files with the date in the name. when i run `find . *20171010*` every file in the directory is matched. what is the right way to do this?
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12:06<grawity>`find . -name "*20171010*"`
12:06<grawity>or in many cases, just *20171010* or **/*20171010* without the need for `find`
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12:06<retrospectacus>or find . | grep 20171010
12:07<tda>quoting doesn't work, no change in output at all
12:07<retrospectacus>did you forget "-name" ?
12:07<grawity>quoting wasn't the only difference in my example
12:07<tda>i dont think piping to grep will work, i need the file name for -exec
12:08<tda>grawity: you are right, it does work with -name
12:08<Patty>petn-randall, thanks. 1. do you mean the entire output of 'apt-get dist-upgrade' ? I got the error at the end of the command. If you want the entire output of 'apt-get dist-upgrade' I need to save it in a file. Is that what you need? 2. I just ran 'apt-get dist-upgrade', not upgrade specific package. I am doing fully upgrade by 'apt-get update && apt-get -V upgrade' and 'apt-get dist-upgrade'.The link is http://www.pontikis.net/blog/debian-upgrade-wheezy-
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12:11<petn-randall>Patty: Yes, the full output. You can simply copy/paste it with the mouse to https://paste.debian.net. Or use pastebinit if you directly logged in on a terminal.
12:11<petn-randall>!pastebinit
12:11<dpkg>A command-line tool to send data to a <pastebin>. To paste e.g. your sources.list do "aptitude install pastebinit; pastebinit /etc/apt/sources.list"; to paste the output of a program do e.g. "dmesg | pastebinit". See also <pastebinit config>, <nopaste>.
12:11<Patty>petn-randall, sure. Will send it to you soon.
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12:20<Patty>petn-randall, I just sent out the outputs on http://paste.debian.net/.
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12:23<petn-randall>Patty: Which one? There are many. A link to it would help.
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12:25<Patty>http://paste.debian.net/998193/
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12:26<Patty>petn-randall, the link is http://paste.debian.net/998193/
12:26<Patty>Thanks a lot!
12:28<petn-randall>Patty: which kernel are you currently running? "uname -a"
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12:30<Patty>petn-randall, 'lsb_release -a" shows 'No LSB modules are available. Distributor ID: Debian Description: Debian GNU/Linux 8.9 (jessie) Release: 8.9 Codename: jessie'
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12:30<petn-randall>Patty: I didn't ask for the LSB release ...
12:31<Patty>Linux telstra-psia 3.14.42-lancope #3 SMP Wed Dec 9 21:12:43 UTC 2015 x86_64 GNU/Linux
12:31<Patty>petn-randall,
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12:32<Patty>petn-randall, 'uname -a' shows 'Linux telstra-psia 3.14.42-lancope #3 SMP Wed Dec 9 21:12:43 UTC 2015 x86_64 GNU/Linux'
12:32<petn-randall>Patty: Is there a reason you're running a custom kernel?
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12:32<petn-randall>One that hasn't been updated in two years, too.
12:33<Patty>petn-randall, thanks. Then can I follow the link http://www.pontikis.net/blog/debian-upgrade-wheezy-to-jessie to upgrade it?
12:33<Patty>Step 1- 5 works, but step 6 has the errors at the end and I sent out to you.
12:33<petn-randall>Patty: Well, what is the reason you're running a custom kernel?
12:34<Patty>petn-randall, yes, they have to.
12:34<petn-randall>uhm
12:35<Patty>petn-randall, I need your help on the command of 'apt-get dist-upgrade' which has errors
12:35<petn-randall>Patty: Well, you're not making it easy by avoiding my questions.
12:36<Patty>What is your question?
12:36<hendrikL>|18:33:57|2017-11-29| <petn-randall> Patty: Well, what is the reason you're running a custom kernel?
12:36<Patty>I sent out the outputs already
12:36<petn-randall>Patty: Why are you running a custom kernel?
12:36<Patty>hendrikL, it is customer env and they ask
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12:37<petn-randall>Patty: They asked "please run a custom kernel"?
12:37<petn-randall>Patty: Were they missing a feature in the stock kernel, did they want the newest one, etc?
12:37<Patty>They founds some DSA bugs and ask to upgrade the system to resolve all bugs
12:38<petn-randall>Patty: I'm not sure how running a two year old kernel fixes any issues, if you missed out on security fixes of the last two years.
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12:38<Patty>petn-randall, we need to run fully upgrade
12:39<petn-randall>Patty: Moving on. The kernel you compiled is missing features that are required to run udev, as the error message you posted says.
12:39<petn-randall>Patty: So just install the new kernel, reboot into it, and then continue the installation.
12:40<Patty>petn-randall, thanks. That is what I am doing by doing fully upgrade with the instructions from this link http://www.pontikis.net/blog/debian-upgrade-wheezy-to-jessie
12:41<Patty>petn-randall, sure. Do you have instructions to upgrade to the new kernel?
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12:42<petn-randall>Patty: Ideally you just run 'apt-get install linux-image'.
12:42<Patty>will 'apt-get update && apt-get -V upgrade', and 'apt-get dist-upgrade' upgrade to a new kernel?
12:43<Patty>petn-randall, thanks. So on the system I just run 'apt-get install linux-image' which will upgrade to new kernel? and linux-image should be the name of latest image?
12:43<petn-randall>Patty: "linux-image" is the literal name that will install the latest kernel of that release.
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12:44<Patty>petn-randall, awesome! so I just need to run 'apt-get install linux-image' on the system to upgrade to new kernel? any other configuration needed?
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12:46<jhutchins_wk>petn-randall: I gather that they've been applying their own patches to the kernel (maybe from kernel.org) because they didn't understand how Debian works.
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12:47<Patty>I just run ' apt-get install linux-image', but got error 'Note, selecting 'linux-image-3.14.42-lancope' instead of 'linux-image' linux-image-3.14.42-lancope is already the newest version. You might want to run 'apt-get -f install' to correct these: The following packages have unmet dependencies: lsof : Depends: libperl4-corelibs-perl but it is not going to be installed or perl (< 5.12.3-7) but 5.20.2-3+deb8u9 is to be installed E: Unmet de
12:47<Patty>petn-randall, thanks. see above error
12:48<petn-randall>Patty: What does 'apt-get install -f' give you?
12:48<Patty>I might need to get the latest image name to run it again
12:48<petn-randall>Patty: Also, use paste.debian.net to show errors, it's not really readable that way since it's truncated.
12:48<Patty>It gives me "The following package was automatically installed and is no longer required: python-gnupginterface Use 'apt-get autoremove' to remove it. The following extra packages will be installed: libperl4-corelibs-perl The following NEW packages will be installed: libperl4-corelibs-perl 0 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 0 to remove and 89 not upgraded. 66 not fully installed or removed. Need to get 0 B/43.6 kB of archives. After this operation, 262 kB
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12:50<Patty>petn-randall, http://paste.debian.net/998201/
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12:53<Patty>Can I use 'apt-get install linux-image-flavour' to install latest image?
12:53<Patty>petn-randall
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12:54<petn-randall>Patty: Sure, linux-image-amd64 should do it.
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12:57<gladioacuto>hi there
12:57<Patty>petn-randall, ' apt-get install linux-image-amd64' also got error and it recommands to use 'apt-get install -f' to correct
12:57<petn-randall>Patty: Do that then.
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12:59<Patty>Thanks. 'apt-get -f install' works fine without error. How can I verify the upgrade works and addresses some security issues?
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12:59<casawi>ciao
12:59<gladioacuto>in 4.13.0-0.bpo.1-amd64 (but the same happened in 4.9 and 4.14, resuming from hibernation/suspension I cannot mount USB device anymore in pcmanfm, getting 'Not authorized to perform this operation'. What's going on? How to fix?
12:59<Patty> petn-randall
12:59<casawi>plzcome install nvidia su debian9 strtch
12:59<petn-randall>Patty: You still need to reboot into the new kernel. You know that it addresses security issues because you've now updated your kernel for the first time in two years.
13:00<petn-randall>casawi: Do you have a Debian support question?
13:00<casawi>ho suito la guida su sito debian ma niente da fare
13:00<petn-randall>Patty: Do you have physical access to the machine?
13:00<petn-randall>!it
13:00<dpkg>Ciao, vai su #debian-it per ricevere aiuto in italiano. Italian Speakers: Please use #debian-it, there you will get much more help.
13:00<petn-randall>casawi: ^^^
13:01<Patty>petn-randall, thanks. So after 'apt-get install linux-image-amd64' and 'apt-get install -f' I just need to reboot the system and it should reboot into a new kernel and the new kernel should address the security issues. Right? Thanks a ton1
13:01<Patty>!
13:01<casawi> debian it is not
13:01<Patty>petn-randall, it is a VM
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13:02<petn-randall>Patty: After rebooting, you can continue your dist-upgrade because udev won't complain about the outdated custom kernel.
13:04<Patty>petn-randall, awsome! Thanks so much!
13:04<casawi>dpkg debian channel it does not start on channel so i have auti i have no
13:04<dpkg>casawi: You are person #1 to send an unparseable request
13:06<gladioacuto>any suggestion for me?
13:07<annadane>casawi, you can't join #debian-it?
13:07<casawi>off
13:07<annadane>casawi, in any case, which nvidia do you want to install, there's nvidia-driver which is proprietary and then there's nouveau which is open source, depending on your needs... for nvidia-driver you'll need to add contrib and non-free to your sources list, apt update, apt install nvidia-driver
13:08<annadane>casawi, see https://wiki.debian.org/SourcesList
13:08<casawi>italy channel no ce are off
13:08<Patty>petn-randall, I will do the same things to other systems as well, so I would like to confirm my steps are correct. To upgrade kernel to the latest 1. apt-get install -f 2. apt-get install linux-image-amd64 3. Replace "wheezy" with "jessie" in /etc/apt/sources.list, ''sed -i 's/wheezy/jessie/g' /etc/apt/sources.list'. 4. apt-get dist-upgrade
13:09<annadane>casawi, and i think for nouveau if you have an nvidia computer it should already be installed by default
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13:09<Patty>petn-randall, so I just need above steps instead of 'apt-get update && apt-get -V upgrade'
13:09<annadane>this is assuming you *need* the nvidia proprietary drivers, which you may not
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13:09<petn-randall>Patty: If you're not running a custom kernel, all the steps in the release notes or correct.
13:10<petn-randall>Patty: This problem won't show up if you have the stock Debian kernel.
13:10<Patty>petn-randall, we are running customer kernel
13:11<annadane>i would also link the wiki page for nouveau but i'm not sure it exists
13:11<petn-randall>Patty: Then just boot into the stock kernel, and do a normal upgrade.
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13:12<casawi>annadane i have installed debian more than 200 times to install nvidia i did all the test but i do not mind i went to youtube but nothing
13:13<annadane>that sounds like excessive amounts of debian installs
13:13<Patty>petn-randall, so after I do 1. apt-get install -f 2. apt-get install linux-image-amd64 3. apt-get dist-upgrade I reboot it. How to reboot to stock kernel? How do I control which kernel it reboot into?
13:13<petn-randall>Youtube also isn't the best place to go for info. We have documentation after all.
13:13<annadane>(but you probably meant "on different computers"...)
13:13<annadane>also, what petn-randall said
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13:14<annadane>Patty, the GRUB will probably show you the kernels available
13:15<casawi>01:00.0 3D controller [0302]: NVIDIA Corporation GM108M [GeForce 940M] [10de:1347] (rev a2
13:15<petn-randall>Patty: I don't really think you should be offering hosting services to customers if you don't know how to select a kernel at boot.
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13:18<annadane>Patty, brushing up on your knowledge would probably be a good thing in general, ie https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/
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13:19<Patty>annadane, thanks very much!
13:21<annadane>(i'm not going to link the administrator handbook because it's out of date, though i guess that's not a bad idea either, there's only a few changes from jessie > stretch)
13:23<blast007>depending on the kind of VM, it might be sharing the host's kernel
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14:48<JordiGH>I have some bug where mate-terminal crashes and somehow seems to sever my connection to ssh-agent. There's still an ssh-agent process running, but I can't seem to connect to it.
14:48<JordiGH>Now every time I ssh somewhere it's asking me for my ssh key passphrase.
14:48<JordiGH>The only way I know how to fix this is to restart X.
14:48<JordiGH>Is there a better way?
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14:54<JordiGH>Ah, well, who cares, let's just restart X.
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15:04<ivan>does nvidia-drm.modeset=1 break 3D or am I missing something?
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15:15<Patty>I got error of 'The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY ' when run 'apt-get update'. So I try to run 'apt-key adv --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys C2518248EEA132', but it looks like the server pgp.mit.edu is invalid. Any idea about the server to get the public key? Thanks.
15:16<jhutchins_wk>Patty: Have you looked at any of the manuals we've linked you to?
15:19<Patty>I followed instructions to update/upgrade my Wheezy to Jessie successfully
15:20<Patty>I am doing 'apt-get autoremove', but got error, then it suggests to run 'apt-get update' again. Then I got public key error.
15:20<jhutchins_wk>Patty: https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/aptitude/ch02s02s05.en.html
15:20<Patty>Thanks
15:20<jhutchins_wk>Patty: I would recommend that you not use autoremove at this point, you don't understand the system well enough to fix what it might break.
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15:25<Patty>jhutchins_wk, that is a really good idea. Without autoremove other commands work fine so far.
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15:29<Echoz>ivan: what goes wrong when you enable it?
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15:30<ivan>Echoz: xorg uses modesetting and neither chrome or glxgears can do whatever GL they want to do
15:30<ivan>(sorry, rebooted into non-modeset already)
15:30<Echoz>ivan: what graphics card do you have?
15:31<ivan>1080 Ti, also UEFI boot might be noteable
15:31<Echoz>maybe, i've got a 1060, i'll try booting with it now. brb
15:31<ivan>my only problems with regular non-modeset nvidia_drm are 1) text console can't DPMS sleep 2) two second switch time
15:31<ivan>(not even with vbetool)
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15:39<Echoz>ivan: at first with modesetting on it just looped when trying to start gdm3, second try, with runlevel 4, i at least managed to start an openbox session
15:43<Echoz>glxears runs fine as well
15:44<Echoz>also was able to set the refresh rate to 144hz, going to try some more demanding 3d now
15:45<gladioacuto>I got no suggestion yet, is my problem a known one or a strange one?
15:46<Echoz>ivan: cs:go ran fine at 170-250 fps
15:47<Echoz>1440p, max settings. but still had trouble with GDM3
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15:51<gladioacuto>in 4.13.0-0.bpo.1-amd64 (but the same happened in 4.9 and 4.14, resuming from hibernation/suspension I cannot mount USB device anymore in pcmanfm, getting 'Not authorized to perform this operation'. What's going on? How to fix?
15:52<ivan>Echoz: interesting, thanks
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17:25<exoalexander>hello
17:25<exoalexander>is this a debian support channel
17:26<Hydroxide>exoalexander: yes. feel free to ask questions about using Debian here.
17:27<exoalexander>i'm trying to install a software center in debian
17:28-!-herbmillerjr [~herbmille@50-248-67-123-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:28<Hydroxide>if you mean the Software Center for GNOME, you want the gnome-software package.
17:29<exoalexander>i'm using debian cinnamon
17:29<Hydroxide>it will probably still work.
17:29<exoalexander>stretch
17:29<Hydroxide>there's no separate software center for cinnamon, that's just a gnome variant. so it's probably the same one
17:30<exoalexander>how do i install the package
17:30<exoalexander>cause i was wondering if it didn't have because it was the first OS before ubuntu
17:31<Hydroxide>in a terminal, su, type your root passort, apt-get install gnome-software
17:31<exoalexander>there we go
17:32<Hydroxide>it's just a different set of defaults. I think it would already be there if you were using the usual GNOME environment instead of cinnamon. but you can use whichever components you want, including this one.
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17:33<exoalexander>i chose cinnamon because i thought it was like linux mint
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17:33<exoalexander>also how do i get a update manager
17:33<Hydroxide>cinnamon is fine if you like it. I've used it myself in the past
17:33<Hydroxide>I think software center can handle updates
17:33<exoalexander>i've tried many operating systems
17:34<Hydroxide>apt-get can do all of this from the command line, but if you want a graphical interface, the software center is one of several
17:34<exoalexander>oh right (how did i forget)
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17:34<exoalexander>also i can't find a way to update firefox to firefox quantumn
17:35<exoalexander>i have a bunch of problems
17:36<Hydroxide>yes, Debian's stable releases (stretch) only ship the Extended Support Release, because Debian supports its stable releases for much longer than Mozilla supports most Firefox releases. Debian will ship Firefox quantum for Stretch when those features make it into Firefox's ESR.
17:36<Hydroxide>the current ESR version is still secure and supported by both Debian and Mozilla - 52, not far behind 57 (quantum)
17:37<Hydroxide>Debian's developer-targeted bleeding-edge version already has 57 but I wouldn't recommend that for most users.
17:37<exoalexander>so i have to wait unitl the next upgrade
17:38<Hydroxide>if it's urgent, you can get it from Mozilla directly, but you wouldn't be able to upgrade that with the software center or apt-get. you don't have to wait until Debian 10, just a subsequent update to Debian 9
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17:38<exoalexander>i think i'm running debian 9
17:38<Hydroxide>yes
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17:39<exoalexander>is there a debian 10 beta i can test
17:40<Hydroxide>that also won't have firefox 57 - it's a testing version of the next stable release, and is nowhere near beta at this point (debian 10 will probably come out around mid-2019)
17:40<exoalexander>2019
17:41<exoalexander>i thought it was mid 2018
17:41<Hydroxide>Mozilla is currently early March 2018 for the next ESR release of firefox, 59. Debian will be reasonably prompt about shipping that within Debian 9
17:41<exoalexander>or is that ubuntu
17:41<Hydroxide>so if you do nothing except apply updates through software center, you'll get firefox quantum before mid-2018
17:42<exoalexander>oh
17:42<Hydroxide>but if you want faster firefox updates, go to firefox.com, download it from mozilla, and use the built-in auto-update functionality for firefox. to avoid confusion you may want to uninstall software center version of firefox since that's separate
17:43<exoalexander>hold on let me try
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17:44<Hydroxide>and yes you are right that the next version of ubuntu will probably release in april 2018. debian actually releases about as often as ubuntu LTS, but on a different schedule and with less rigidity.
17:45<exoalexander>i installed debian cause i wanted the OS that gave the others debian based stuff
17:47<Hydroxide>sure. welcome, then :)
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17:48<exoalexander>i got firefox quantumn as a tar.gz
17:48<exoalexander>i got it running by opening one of the contents but it's not in my menu
17:49<Hydroxide>yeah, you might be able to add it to your menu manually, I'm not sure how cinnamon menus work
17:49<exoalexander>and somehow after i removed firefox chrome decided to unexpectly pop out
17:49<Hydroxide>or maybe pin it to your panel bar
17:49<Hydroxide>you probably want to extract it from the tar.gz
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17:50<exoalexander>already did the i open a file call firefox.bin
17:50<exoalexander>and it launches
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17:50<Hydroxide>good. just make a menu entry or panel entry that points to that, then. sorry but I don't know the specifics for cinnamon
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17:52<ssgelm>join #packaging
17:52<ssgelm>oops sorry :)
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17:57<exoalexander>bye
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18:51<AlexMax>What is the hip hop happening way to get a modern PHP onto Debian 7?
18:51<AlexMax>dotdeb appears to be stuck at 7/5.6
18:51<AlexMax>and possibly unmaintained
18:51<AlexMax>I know 8 is out, but I need modern PHP now - I can wait to upgrade
18:52<petn-randall>,v php7
18:52<judd>No package named 'php7' was found in amd64.
18:52<AlexMax>sury does not appear to support wheezy
18:53<petn-randall>,v php7.0
18:53<judd>Package: php7.0 on amd64 -- sid: 7.0.14-2; stretch: 7.0.19-1; buster: 7.0.25-1; sid: 7.0.25-1; sid: 7.0.26-1
18:53<petn-randall>AlexMax: That's the one to install on stretch. ^^^
18:53<petn-randall>AlexMax: If you have wheezy, you're running an old system that doesn't even support php, IIRC.
18:53<AlexMax>it absolutely does support php
18:54<AlexMax>it comes with 5.4
18:54<AlexMax>;P
18:54<AlexMax>PHP has been around for a very long time
18:54<petn-randall>!wheezy lts
18:54<dpkg>Security support for Debian 7 "Wheezy" from the Debian Security Team ended on 2016-04-25. The amd64, i386, armel and armhf architectures receive additional long term support (LTS) via <wheezy/updates> until 2018-05-31. See http://deb.li/2aC for excluded packages. No changes to /etc/apt/sources.list are needed for wheezy-lts.
18:54<AlexMax>I am aware that LTS runs out in may
18:54<AlexMax>that means I have 5-6 months to update
18:54<AlexMax>but i'm trying to work on a PHP script on a server running other stuff now
18:55<AlexMax>and trying to update to 8 might lead to problems
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18:55<petn-randall>AlexMax: Oh, it's just a few PHP application that are exluded, php is indeed still supported in LTS, assuming you have those extra repos added.
18:55<blast007>so make a new server with Debian 8 and gradually move stuff to it
18:57<somiaj>AlexMax: by default debian is not setup to mix/match versions from different releases and you should stick to the version provided by the release. That being said, the standard ways are to 1) do a local install in say /opt or /usr/local, 2) build your own package. Either requires you maintain and configure the software.
18:57<AlexMax>blast007: I need access to a database that is only accessible on this server
18:57<AlexMax>sqlite3
18:57<petn-randall>Err...
18:58<blast007>so.. copy the file to the new server
18:58<AlexMax>blast007: the database is being updated
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18:58<AlexMax>all the time
18:58<blast007>okay? so it can't get updates on the Debian 8 server?
18:58<AlexMax>somiaj: I'm not trying to install debian 8's php onto debian 7
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18:58<petn-randall>AlexMax: I'm pretty sure you can only access it with a single process at a time. So turn that single process off and migrate.
18:59<somiaj>AlexMax: I know, I was more saying you would need to build the newer software from source, and integrate it into teh system yourself as there won't be any premaded packages for this.
18:59<AlexMax>petn-randall: I will need to do that, eventually, but it's a huge pain in the neck for me to do that now
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19:00<AlexMax>somiaj: But what about things like dotdeb? That's what I was asking about
19:00<blast007>!don't break debian
19:00<dpkg>i guess dont break debian is https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian
19:00<somiaj>AlexMax: we don't like dotdeb here
19:00<somiaj>!dotdeb
19:00<dpkg>http://dotdeb.org/ is an unofficial package repository with emphasis on the <LAMP> solution stack, unsupported in #debian. To get support, read http://www.dotdeb.org/2012/08/24/how-to-post-useful-bug-reports/ and report any issues to https://github.com/gplessis/dotdeb-php5/issues . Ask me about <dotdeb alternatives>.
19:00<petn-randall>AlexMax: Sounds like you're stuck between a rock and a hard place.
19:00<AlexMax>!dotdeb alternatives
19:00<dpkg>Software from <dotdeb> historically had a number of packaging or functional issues. If you require newer versions than what <stable> offers, a lot of the packages now have updates in backports.debian.org, ask me about <bdo> or for php possibly <deb.sury.org>; to remove Dotdeb packages: "aptitude purge '~Vdotdeb'".
19:00<AlexMax>sury doesn't support wheezy
19:01<somiaj>AlexMax: I too suggest blast007 idea, create a new development server, and copy over the database (it is okay it changes, during the setup), once you get the develoment server running like you need, you can then plan to copy over the database again and make the new server live.
19:01<somiaj>AlexMax: if taking the time to do it this way won't work, then you may just have to build a newer php from source.
19:01<petn-randall>AlexMax: I guess if you exclude all the good solutions, there isn't anything else left.
19:02<blast007>I don't know if you could have multiple PHP versions installed anyway. The apache module is probably particularly a problem, so if you're using that and wanting to mix PHP versions, you'd probably have to switch to FastCGI. (and that's assuming you can get multiple PHP versions installed)
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19:03<blast007>older PHP scripts can fail to work at all on PHP7, so I'd highly suggest having a test server
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19:04<AlexMax>blast007: Multiple versions of PHP installed at the same time is quite tricky
19:05<AlexMax>petn-randall: No need to be snarky. I can either spend a long while migrating over all of my game servers and associated data and setting up my sync scripts and everything else, and I just don't want to dedicate the time to do so yet
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19:05<AlexMax>I'm not asking X/Y questions ;)
19:06<AlexMax>I know exactly what I'm looking for
19:06<petn-randall>AlexMax: However, you are letting us guess for solutions and then you come up with reasons why it doesn't work after the fact ...
19:06<blast007>is there a specific feature of PHP7 that you're needing? in some cases, there are compatibility shims.
19:07<AlexMax>petn-randall: I asked a very specific question
19:07<AlexMax>> 18:51 < AlexMax> What is the hip hop happening way to get a modern PHP onto Debian 7?
19:07<somiaj>AlexMax: the answer to that question is there is no supported way. We are trying to give suggestions.
19:07<AlexMax>blast007: I was hoping to use silex 2.x, which requires a newer php than 5.4
19:07<somiaj>i.e. ther eis no hip hop happening way to get a modering PHP onto wheezy. The version you get with wheezy is the verison yo uhave.
19:08*mnuhmnuh snarky? wtf!
19:08<BrandonArnold>lol
19:08*petn-randall snacks mnuhmnuh.
19:09<somiaj>mnuhmnuh: please keep your off topic comments to yourself, they just add noise and are not needed.
19:09<sdk>mnuhmnuh: "sarcastic, impertinent, or irreverent in tone or manner"
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19:09<AlexMax>somiaj: ah, that's a shame then
19:09<AlexMax>I was hoping somebody had a third party debian repo in mind other than sury
19:10<blast007>AlexMax: hmm, yeah, that requires 5.5.9+
19:10<AlexMax>thanks for your time anyway
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19:11<somiaj>AlexMax: debian doens't really suggest many third party repos, most don't meet the quality debian wants. dotdeb is a possibility, but their quality is low compared to debian standards.
19:12<AlexMax>I don't suppose that PPA's are a thing in debian still?
19:12<somiaj>debian focuses on ensuring its repo is of good quality.
19:12<somiaj>PPA's have never been a thing in debian.
19:12<ryouma>doesn't the repo have various things like nix or so that can give you access to packages (although perhaps not signed ones)?
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19:14<somiaj>(they are ubuntu things, and are sometimes very poor quality)
19:15<AlexMax>I see - didn't know if debian had accepted any PPA functionality upstream
19:15<somiaj>ryouma: which repo?
19:15<AlexMax>it's been a long time since I've looked at the state-of-the-art in debian, most of my work stuff is centos
19:16<somiaj>AlexMax: for the most part no, because most third party repos do not conform to debian standards. If the packages meet debian standards, they would be in debian and not need a third party repo. Backports are a different issue, but these are becomming far more common and provided by debian (though php is a beast that doen'st get backported)
19:16<ryouma>well, 7 in his case. so idk which things.
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19:16<mnuhmnuh>somiaj: please keep your off topic comments to yourself too! I was commenting on rudeness: "AlexMax: No need to be snarky." petn-randall was trying to help, and was insulted for it. EOF.
19:16<somiaj>ahh yea, sure you can access packages from different repos (even PPA's) if you wanted to, but we don't suggest that.
19:17<somiaj>mnuhmnuh: in general your comments are off topic and as an op I will mention this when they are.
19:17<AlexMax>yeah if debian doesn't support PPA's I wouldn't use them
19:18<petn-randall>mnuhmnuh: It's all good, let's move on.
19:18<petn-randall>AlexMax: I guess you could backport php7.0, but you'd have to maintain any updates yourself.
19:19<petn-randall>,checkbackport php7.0 --fromrelease stretch --torelease wheezy
19:19-!-ach [~spooky@ip-109-43-0-49.web.vodafone.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:19*petn-randall pokes judd
19:19<AlexMax>nah, i use a package manager to offload updating stuff myself :P
19:19<judd>Backporting package php7.0 in stretch→wheezy/amd64: unsatisfiable build dependencies: Build-Depends: apache2-dev (>= 2.4), dh-apache2, libgd-dev (>= 2.1.0) | libgd2-dev, libtidy-dev (>= 1:5.2.0), libzip-dev (>= 1.0.0).
19:19<AlexMax>I think somebody mentioned that PHP was a beast that didn't get backported
19:20<petn-randall>AlexMax: I guess it won't work without backport half the release :/
19:21<petn-randall>AlexMax: I think it's more that nobody on the backports team wants to care about keeping it up-to-date, and adding the proper Breaks:-dependencies to ensure it works smooth with other PHP packages.
19:21<ryouma>does the additional security support for jessie for certain architectures that uses jessie-updates supersede any cessation of support by the security team?
19:21<AlexMax>my current debian system is a monster anyway
19:21<AlexMax>due to lack of forseight, it's half i386, half x86-64
19:22<petn-randall>Heh :)
19:22<AlexMax>i do need to blow them away and start fresh
19:22<somiaj>sounds like you may want to just start fresh, and starting with debian 9 maybe a good place to go, just slowly move stuff over until you can retire the old server.
19:22<petn-randall>AlexMax: That's always a great chance to set up a new squeaky clean server! :)
19:22<AlexMax>yeah but that takes time :P
19:22<AlexMax>9?
19:22<AlexMax>i thoguht 8 was stable
19:22<somiaj>well the other server can be up and running during this time.
19:22<BrandonArnold>9 is now stable
19:22<AlexMax>oh my goodness
19:22<somiaj>Stretch is debian 9 and was released this summer.
19:22<AlexMax>i'm WAY out of date
19:23<ryouma>AlexMax: jessie 8 is still supported as oldstable
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19:23<somiaj>and will be supported by lts after oldstable support stops next summer.
19:23<ryouma>for certain architectures only, if dpkg is to be believed
19:23<ryouma>right?
19:23<somiaj>and packages.
19:24<somiaj>for example chromium is no longer supported in jessie, and if you are using chromium in jessie you have a insecure browser.
19:24<ryouma>oh -- so next summer is a problem even if you have amd64?
19:24<AlexMax>yes
19:24<AlexMax>i'm on the clock
19:24<somiaj>for desktop stuff, LTS only supports some server side stuff as exploits are found.
19:24<ryouma>chromium is no longer supported even now?
19:24<somiaj>The webbrowser is the big culprit, but other desktop software can have exploits too
19:25<somiaj>correct, chorimum is at end of life in jessie and is no longer supported (the last rounds of exploits were not able to be backported to jessie, this was included in the DSA a month ago maybe a little less)
19:25<ryouma>i had no idea
19:25<ryouma>better stop using it, or upgrade
19:26<BrandonArnold>if you had to guess how long do you think it will be before firefox quantum makes it into stable
19:26<somiaj>ryouma: firefox-esr is supported in jessie.
19:26<somiaj>ryouma: I only know this because I get the DSA emails and read them. I upgraded my last jessie desktop at the time due to that DSA
19:26<ryouma>somiaj: yeah but it doesn't always wfm, or at least idk whether it is possible to launch a fresh profile of firefox-esr while one is running
19:26<somiaj>BrandonArnold: is that the new version that requires rust. A while, the rust language has to make it into debian first.
19:26<annadane>BrandonArnold, very likely not until buster becomes stable
19:27<BrandonArnold>somiaj annadane Got it, thanks
19:27<ryouma>somiaj: perhaps the security team can make chromium put up a splash page?
19:27<rusey>June 26, 2018 is when Firefox 59.2 ESR is released
19:27<rusey>https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/organizations/faq/
19:27<rusey>So probably then
19:27<ryouma>somiaj: or perhaps the debian news could mention?
19:27<somiaj>well sometime after that date, debian won't switch to the new ESR release until a security exploit is fixed by it.
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19:28<annadane>i wasn't even thinking of rust but yeah
19:28<annadane>"not for a while" is the general consensus
19:28<somiaj>ryouma: You would have to talk to the security team about this, but since the package was not upgraded, news, listchanges, etc would be irrelevent. I think the debian security team considers the DSA maling list its place for offical annoucments.
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19:28<annadane>but you don't have to install as a .deb to use firefox, just use their tar
19:29<BrandonArnold>annadane Oh I didn't know they offered one, thanks for the info
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19:29<somiaj>ryouma: https://www.debian.org/security/2017/dsa-4020
19:30<somiaj>BrandonArnold: you can install the precompiled binaries form firefox in /opt or $HOME. I suggest if you only have one user that uses it, put it in $HOME. I belive it can even update itself.
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19:30<BrandonArnold>somiaj: I'm totally going to do that. Thanks
19:31<ryouma>hmm, i figured that dsa did not provide anything that just upgrading did and reading news did as dsa has a lot of chatter
19:31<somiaj>BrandonArnold: but debian won't provide them until they can be built in debian, which requires getting rust into debian. (there maybe some exceptions made if rust isn't in debian by next summer, i.e. debian in a rare case could provide a binary for stretch that cannot be built in stretch)
19:31<ryouma>did not*
19:31<somiaj>ryouma: I'm not sure on policy on this, but since the package is not being updated, there needs to be a method outside of the package.
19:32<BrandonArnold>somiaj: I could see tinkering with rust myself, maybe I can bring that in similarly as well
19:32<annadane>i guess a slightly more fleshed out explanation for firefox 57 is that firefox 57 won't exist in main in stable until buster; it could be backported, but considering backports have traditionally not as strong security support compared to packages in main and you use firefox to connect to the web of viruses...
19:32<annadane>but yes, just use the tar
19:32<ryouma>i am not the king of debian, so i cannot tell them what to do, but i'd think people would want an upgrade that says "don't use me!"
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19:32<BrandonArnold>Yeah for sure, thanks
19:32<somiaj>ryouma: LTS works in a similar fashion, when a security exploit is fixed but not in the LTS version it is mentioned in the security annoucment. the security tracker maybe a better place to look for this info too.
19:33<ryouma>somiaj: is there a low volume, high s/n mailing list that just says what things are no longer supported?
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19:34<somiaj>ryouma: outside of the DSA not to bad, but the DSA is fairly low volume, and I think useful to be on.
19:34<ryouma>i figure i'd have to wade through every dsa, and i'm not a sysadmin (for whom that would presumably be worthwhile)
19:34<annadane>BrandonArnold, and be aware if you use esr *and* mainline firefox to keep the config files seperate as they both tend to go in ~/.mozilla
19:34<somiaj>ryouma: but I don't know of any one that just does annoucments like this.
19:34<annadane>and also be aware that 57+ can break many previously used extensions
19:35<somiaj>ryouma: I'm not either, I just only read the dsa that affect me, chromium-brower is a package I use, so I read that DSA. I just click 'mark as read' for packages I don't use
19:35<ryouma>somiaj: hmm, are you referring to the debian-security mailing list? i am on that, but figured it was redundant for such things as chromium no longer being supported.
19:36<annadane>i can't think of a specific mailing list for that, though i guess it almost might be on deb-devel-announce
19:36<somiaj>ryouma: i'm not sure on the exact policy, this is just somethign I recall running into. I think this is how LTS has been doing it for a while. When a security vuln gets fixed, the DSA will mention if or if not it was also fixed in LTS
19:36<annadane>but that's just a pure guess
19:36<BrandonArnold>annadane, that is a good point. I actually would use either chrome or the new Firefox, so no problems there.
19:36<annadane>i don't know why i typed "almost", ignore that superfluous word
19:36<somiaj>but yea, for the end user, it seems to be put in a strange place. But I think this is one of the first times they have had to discontinue support so soon into oldstable (so this is an oddball example)
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19:37<ryouma>it's sort of slightly horrifying
19:38<ryouma>i figured as long as there is security support, you're ok
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19:40<ryouma>(i mean, you are still responsible for reading debian news and runing your own security software, but that all packages, including those anomalous browser thingies, would be supported)
19:40<annadane>OH
19:40<annadane>actually, debian-announce, too
19:40<rusey>I remember it happened to Virtualbox, because of Oracle's stupid security policies
19:40<annadane>that's probably the most likely place
19:40<annadane>well, not "most likely" but you could check all the ones mentjoned
19:40<BrandonArnold>annadane huh. Well it seems `apt-get remove firefox-esr --dry-run` wants to get rid of gnome
19:41<annadane>i guess probably use apt pinning, though i've not experience with that
19:42<BrandonArnold>nah I keep getting bit by that
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19:42<ryouma>annadane: debian-announce does not contain anything that looks like it refers to the stopping of support for chromium
19:43<annadane>okay
19:43<annadane>you'd think it would, though :/
19:43<ryouma>also, if you don't /use/ virtualbox, but you have it /installed/ (and thus it has some kind of strange daemon or something running) are you ok? or must you uninstall it?
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19:44<ryouma>("/usr/lib/virtualbox/vboxwebsrv --pidfile /run/vboxweb.pid --background")
19:44<ryouma>i never use it but wanted it installed so i would not forget which packages need to be installed precisely
19:46<rusey>I don't know, Oracle doesn't release details about their security fixes. It been end-of-life in jessie for over a year: https://www.debian.org/security/2016/dsa-3699
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19:59<somiaj>rusey: yea, virtualbox is not included in stretch because orcale will not let its devs backport security fixes to older releases. Since it would not be possible to get help on security support, the software was removed
19:59<somiaj>(then is provided via stretch-backports since stretch-backports has no security support we can get around it that way)
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20:01<somiaj>rusey: Oracle releases their security fixes as part of a large collection of fixes, and debian doesn't want to disect them to just get the secuirty fix, and oracle won't let their team help. It isn't just oracle doens't relase details (it is open source after all), it is just the releases contain more than just security fixes.
20:01<BrandonArnold>somiaj: I was bit by the virtual-box PPA when they had an update the same day as the stretch release
20:02<BrandonArnold>That PPA is def not optimal
20:02<somiaj>BrandonArnold: yea, third party repos tend to not be the best quality when mixed with debian, since the PPA is for ubuntu, not debian.
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20:02<BrandonArnold>I saw that, yet that's what their Debian installation guide says to do
20:02<BrandonArnold>Not defending it
20:02<somiaj>BrandonArnold: yea, there was a small period (maybe 4-5 months) from the freeze of stretch and the removal of virtualbox, before it was provided via stretch-backports.
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20:03<somiaj>I personally stoped using virtualbox a while ago and use qemu-kvm. My experience is qemu-kvm is great for linux guests, but if you use a lot of windows guests, virtualbox is just better setup for that.
20:04<BrandonArnold>Huh. Wonder if it works with vagrant and docker
20:04<somiaj>libvirt is a nice front end for stuff too, and virt-manager if you like a gui
20:05<ryouma>i never got any vm except virtualbox to work with my accessibility needs. qemu just did not do it, and virtualbox took a bit of doing to do it.
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20:05<somiaj>I could see accessibility issues better with virtualbox, though I don't use such features.
20:06<rusey>The virtio drivers for windows help out a lot with the perfomance with QEMU (Spice+QXL). https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Windows_Virtio_Drivers
20:06<ryouma>mainly stuff like getting the entire screen filled sot hat fonts are large and having it actually work
20:07<ryouma>but perhaps i wasn't good enough at qemu
20:07<somiaj>with a window guest, virtualbox still seems to behave nicer, and more so in cases like accessiblity and other things that may not get that much testing
20:07<somiaj>(well as much)
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20:09<rusey>And if you have an extra GPU on your computer, you can use PCI passthrough and get 98% native perfomace in Windows.
20:09<BrandonArnold>Looks like there are qemu-kvm providers for vagrant and docker so that could be fun. Anyway I have hardly had to think about virtual-box since it broke after stretch moved into stable so I will ignore it for now
20:10<BrandonArnold>vagrant and docker have been working = I'm happy
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20:13<stango>живые есть?
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20:16<mnuhmnuh>!ru
20:16<dpkg>Это английскоговорящий канал, пожалуйста, говорите по-английски или посетите #debian-russian (irc.freenode.net) (Russian speakers please go to #debian-russian)
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20:18<ayelen>cintia
20:18<ayelen>bogado cintia
20:18<ayelen>adriana
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20:19<ryouma>is chromum unsupported on stretch also?
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20:19<annadane>ryouma, do you mean chromium?
20:19<annadane>,v chromium
20:19<judd>Package: chromium on amd64 -- wheezy: 37.0.2062.120-1~deb7u1; wheezy-security: 37.0.2062.120-1~deb7u1; jessie: 57.0.2987.98-1~deb8u1; jessie-security: 57.0.2987.98-1~deb8u1; stretch: 61.0.3163.100-1~deb9u1; stretch-proposed-updates: 62.0.3202.89-1~deb9u1; stretch-security: 62.0.3202.89-1~deb9u1; buster: 62.0.3202.89-1; sid: 62.0.3202.89-1; experimental: 63.0.3239.30-1
20:20<annadane>apparently not
20:20<ryouma>i can't tell from that output
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20:20<ryouma>what are you lookign at that told you not?
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20:21<annadane>it's still in stretch so it's obviously still supported in stretch
20:22<ryouma>it's still in jessie also but i just learned it is not supported
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20:41<BrandonArnold>ryouma: HAHAHA burnnnnned
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20:44<annadane>that surprises me but at least for stable as opposed to oldstable it really ought to still be supported
20:44<annadane>i'm not sure what the policy is
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20:46<annadane>chromium is also quite mainline so there's no way it will ever not be supported in stable
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20:46<annadane>just on general principles alone
20:47<annadane>BrandonArnold, unnecessary, that wasn't even intended as an attack
20:47<annadane>i was genuinely unaware it's not supported in jessie
20:47<tt>what do you mean unsupported?
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20:51<ryouma>BrandonArnold: and probably most oldstable users too!
20:52<ryouma>tt: chromium in oldstable is insecure
20:52<ryouma>this was news to me, and to annadane, until today
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20:54<annadane>i don't think that really answers the question
20:54<annadane>how do you mean insecure?
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20:55<ryouma>hmm, well the backscroll has the details, but it seems that there was an exploit discovered, and the package (or its dependencies) remains both unpatched and un-upgraded, so chromium is vulnerable. at least, that is my understanding.
20:56<tt>hmm.
20:56<ryouma>and the security team will not upgrade and it will not patch
20:56<ryouma>(and apparently will not tell us about it except in a dsa?)
20:56<annadane>that's definitely not usual behavior
20:56<annadane>do you have a bug number?
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20:57<ryouma>annadane: 17:24 <somiaj> for example chromium is no longer supported in jessie, and if you are using chromium in jessie you have a insecure browser.
20:58<annadane>okay, that really surprises me. sorry, i didn't see that
20:58<ryouma>17:29 <somiaj> ryouma: https://www.debian.org/security/2017/dsa-4020
20:58<ryouma>me neither. i am kinda blown away.
20:58<annadane>that seems more careless than regular policy
20:58<ryouma>imo it should be on debian-announce or whatever, or tehre should be a splash screen saying use at your own risk
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21:00<ryouma>i did learn from another channel, however, that you can install and run check-support-status
21:01<annadane>i don't know what the policy is but that can't be the right way to do it
21:01<annadane>(i mean what chromium did, not what you posted)
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21:03<ryouma>debian goes to great trouble to be stable and secure, and to leave out such a tiny thing as an announcement or splash screen seems uncharacteristic of it
21:03<ryouma>to me at least
21:04<annadane>well but it's also just irresponsible not to fix the security bugs
21:05<somiaj>Well the problem with that approach as I see it is, it would require putting a package into a frozen system that is not a security or bug fix (and contains a feature change/however light it maybe)
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21:05<somiaj>annadane: not all security bugs can just be fixed, that is part of the problem with older releases on software that upstream no longer supports. Debian security is overworked as it is, and they don't have the time to backport security fixes for browsers. This is a rabbit hole debian went down a long time ago, and now does not do.
21:06<annadane>well, all right, fair enough
21:06<ryouma>because feature changes can introduce bugs? :) sorry can't resist. :)
21:06<annadane>god knows it's bad form to complain about a volunteer project
21:06<somiaj>ryouma: part of what debian stable means, no new features (Aka a flash screen) are not allowed into the frozen system by policy
21:07<annadane>though if you have apt-listbugs installed it should catch it
21:07<somiaj>and this having to drop security support soon is a realtive newish thing in debian. I do agree that there isn't a clear policy and maybe there needs to be a better way to annouce dropping support for both oldstable and lts, but I don't have a decent solution.
21:07<annadane>though how many people actually have that installed in stable
21:08<annadane>i just feel bad for the people who are going to get bitten by it
21:09<ryouma>i thought apt-listbugs was not suitable for oldstable or even stable?
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21:10<ryouma>somiaj: (i thought it funny that a bug introduced by a splash screen to warn about insecurity is considered a risk for a bug, when the insecurity it warns about is already a bug and imo likely a larger bug than anything introduced. but i do (as a regular user) think announcing on a major announce mailing list that many people subsvribe to like debian-announce would be appropriate.
21:10<somiaj>though in debian's defense, this is the first time I have seen such support droped for an indvidual package like this. Usually they do send out an annoucment when oldstable switches to lts
21:11<somiaj>ryouma: well it is more policy, sure this change may not cause any harm, but frozen doesnt' allow for any change, however small (except security or grave bugs)
21:11<annadane>there should at least be an announcement
21:11<somiaj>annadane: there was, did you read the DSA I linked.
21:11<annadane>okay. sorry.
21:11<somiaj>the issue is it wasn't in a place people may think to look for such annoucments.
21:11<ryouma>somiaj: i get it and did not mean to make a big deal of it, just found it funny. the larger point i wanted to make was to make sure users know.
21:12<ryouma>exactly
21:12<somiaj>ryouma: I agree there, but as I said this isn't a common thing that happens, so there really isn't such a policy/means to give annoucments for indvidual packages loosing support in oldstable.
21:12<ryouma>i think most people do not read dsas
21:13<annadane>right, no, i saw the DSAs
21:13<annadane>i just meant... never mind
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21:52<lavamind>I've upgraded a jessie xen domU to stretch recently, and noticed python applications load a lot slower, by about 2-3x
21:53<lavamind>when I reinstalled the 3.16 kernel package from jessie, the performance is back to normal
21:53<lavamind>I'm really at a loss to figure out how this could happen, it's a fairly vanilla setup, no cpufreq, custom sysctl variables, etc.
21:54<lavamind>it's a pvhvm guest running on xen 4.4
21:55<tt>not paravirt??
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21:56<lavamind>nah, hvm+pv drivers is better nowadays
21:57<lavamind>performance is at least as good as PV, better on some workloads
21:57<lavamind>anyway, until stretch! :s
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21:58<tt>hope you figure it out. at least you have a workable workaround, for now
21:58<lavamind>I ran some sysbench synthetic tests on both kernels but that didn't give any clue, cpu, memory, io, are all pretty similar
21:59<tt>weird
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21:59<lavamind>but when I `time` some python stuff, eg. fail2ban-client, the difference is evident
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22:00<lavamind>and running zsh+tmux with powerline status lines is impossible, under 4.9 it kills the load
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22:00<lavamind>prompt taking 1-2 seconds to appear
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22:09<lavamind>anyway, I'm really happy installing the kernel from oldstable is at all *possible*, Debian is awesome :D
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22:16<ivan>how can I figure out which thing is taking my monitor out of `dpms off`?
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22:35<lavamind>good question
22:36<lavamind>I wish I knew..
22:37<somiaj>ivan: does it happen right away, maybe give a timer, sleep 5; dpms off
22:39<somiaj>ivan: nevermind, I think I missunderstood you. Though you were running a command trying to manually turn on dpms.
22:40<ivan>there are no problems with the idle timeout going into sleep/suspend/off, something is just turning the monitor back on
22:40-!-jipege1 [~quassel@170-135-190-109.isp.overthebox.ovh] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:40<ivan>execsnoop is not revealing
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22:42<somiaj>ivan: senstive mice are a common cause, and I think you can adjust the sensitivity for amount of movement before a mouse trigers it.
22:43<somiaj>but I don't think the event that causes it to turn back on is logged anywhere.
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22:50<ryouma>execsnoop?
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22:53<ivan>somiaj: yeah, I hoped it was that, but I disabled the mouse entirely
22:53<ivan>ryouma: from perf-tools. like a poor man's ProcessMonitor
22:53<ivan>I'll have to take a look at this later
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23:03<ivan>heh, watch -d xset q says something is unhelpfully resetting my settings to DPMS (Energy Star): Standby: 7200 Suspend: 7200 Off: 14400
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23:07<ivan>that would be xscreensaver itself. it has a control panel, where even if power management is unchecked, it will apply the timeouts as dpms settings.
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23:27<ivan>https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=659802
23:27<judd>Bug http://bugs.debian.org/659802 in xscreensaver (open): «xscreensaver: Option to leave DPMS alone»; severity: wishlist; opened: 2012-02-13; last modified: 2012-02-16.
23:34<ivan>and xscreensaver doesn't build with --without-dpms-ext, nice :-)
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23:42-!-glebihan is "glebihan" on #debian #debian-next #lxde #openbox
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---Logclosed Thu Nov 30 00:00:45 2017