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#debian IRC Logs for 2017-12-08

---Logopened Fri Dec 08 00:00:56 2017
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01:28<Fudge>hi all, been hving some probs lately, i am not really sure if it is software or hardware. i run a speedtest-cli my server freezes with squeeling through speakers, run virsh, same thing. ive noticed twice when i shut down my desktop of a night in another part of the house the same tng happens. any ideas, NICs maybe?
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01:31<somiaj>Do you have sshd on that machine? Is it a full freeze? (can you ssh into it or ping it while it is frozen)?
01:31<jm_>must be something seriously wrong if something as simple as speedtest-cli freezes it
01:31<somiaj>also is very strange the speakers have anything to do with this, that almost sounds like an electrical problem inside the mobo
01:31<jm_>I once had a whining NIC on a brand new motherboard - it whined during transfers, but I had it replaced
01:32<Fudge>no ping, it's not headless because I use a screenreader on the cli but machine just completely freezes
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01:33<Fudge>guess I should isolate the hardware and try in another box first
01:34<Fudge>it's my gateway so is a real pain
01:34<tt>is it playing sound when it freezes?
01:34<Fudge>i've only noticed it recently since changing ISP which i cant imagine is any cause, they do use POA I think and not POE
01:35<somiaj>a squeel sounds more like electrical feedback issue
01:35<tt>I dunno, I don't think you can rule out s/w on that basis alone
01:35<tt>I do wonder if you might have some ground loop issue, that can end up causing freezes/reboots and weird speaker noise
01:36<Fudge>it first started doing it because my fans were caked in dust, cleaned it out and temps dropped by ooh about 30C
01:36<jm_>haha
01:36<Fudge>it's plugged in via a UPS which is pretty dead, maybe I should bypass it, only works for about 1 min
01:36<somiaj>I have had some strange electrical feed back issues from UPS in the past.
01:37<Fudge>im blind, i couldnt see the dust but i could feel it. like a thick layer ewww
01:37<tt>haha
01:37<jm_>so maybe some capacitors went due to high temperatures - are capacitors on the motherboard and in PSU high quality ones?
01:37<Fudge>ill do that next time it falls over ahaha
01:37<Fudge>it's quite an old gigabyte board
01:37<Fudge>Gigabyte GA-G41M-ES2H
01:37<Fudge>http://www.gigabyte.com.au/products/product-page.aspx?pid=3468#ov
01:37<Fudge>2.4ghz intel core 2 quad q6600
01:37<somiaj>You have another machine you can use as your gateway, at least temporally, as a start to see if the isp has any issues (which I doubt), plus this will give you time to do different hardware tests.
01:38<jm_>yeah that one has good capacitors
01:38<Fudge>yeah my kodi box withthe addition of another nic and some tweaking to my network device names
01:39<tt>I threw away a nice mobo once I thought was haunted, after struggling with it for a year. A month later, learned my PSU was the issue :/
01:39<Fudge>i'd like to use my workstation z600 with dual cpu hex cores as server so i can run my vms better but cant afford a new workstation, preloved
01:39<Fudge>oops that's not a good fail
01:40<tt>was a good learning experience, though... now I know PSU can cause all sorts of issues :)
01:40<jm_>yeah I attributed hangs in windows to windows/drivers etc. but then I realized it's PSU, replaced it and they were gone
01:43<somiaj>Yea, for some reason I over look the PSU. as a side note had the same issue with my truck, lots of strange things started happening (it was the battery going bad)
01:43<somiaj>bad power can do strange things in electrical systems.
01:44<Fudge>agreed mate, good catch
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02:16<Fudge>which logs are helpful to check after a crash
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02:21<Fudge>see how this goes without UPS
02:22<somiaj>Fudge: hunt around /var/log, /var/log/messages is usually kernel stuff
02:22<somiaj>If you want journalctl (from systemd) to keep logs, mkdir /var/log/journal (if that directory doesn't exist)
02:24<tt>the unfortunate thing is there probably won't be any relevant entries
02:25<tt>if you feel like configuring a serial console, sometimes that gets you a few more
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03:27<sid1>hi
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04:20<raidensnake>I don't suppose anyone knows how i can fix the ethernet network trying to move a memory card with debian
04:20<jm_>ethernet network, memory card?
04:21<raidensnake>I'm using 2 identical raspberry pi 3's
04:21<raidensnake>the isue I have is using the same memory card install from one to the other
04:21<jm_>ahh eth card becoming eth1?
04:21<raidensnake>or when i copoy the memory card to the other
04:21<raidensnake>it doesn't see it even though the hardware is there.
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04:22<raidensnake>the kernel knows it;s there
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04:22<raidensnake>it's*
04:22<jm_>!disable persistent interface naming
04:22<dpkg>Persistent naming of network interfaces (ask me about <udev mac>) is a recommended Debian system default, but this can be disabled. For Debian 6.0 "Squeeze" and later releases: «touch /etc/udev/rules.d/75-persistent-net-generator.rules && rm /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules».
04:22<jm_>tried that?
04:22<raidensnake>no but it would be good to
04:22<jm_>i.e. comment all lines in /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules and try again
04:23<raidensnake>all I want it to do is allow the network to work on the ethernet, bluetooth and wifi
04:23<raidensnake>on any pi
04:23<jm_>yeah if that helps do that on the card before using it with another machine
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04:24<raidensnake>if ti use the original pi it works just fine
04:24<raidensnake>if i*
04:24<jm_>yeah that should most likely fix it for you then
04:25<raidensnake>that's strange
04:25<raidensnake>the file you mentioned doesn't exist on here
04:25<jm_>here being?
04:26<raidensnake>there's no 70-persistent-net.rules file
04:26<jm_>on rpi? are you using debian on it?
04:27<raidensnake>yes debian stretch armhf
04:27<raidensnake>since the pi 2 and p3 are arm v7/v8
04:27<raidensnake>pi 3*
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04:28<jm_>ok, can you check what does «ls /sys/class/net» show on working/non-working system? what's in /etc/network/interfaces files?
04:28<jm_>file, not files
04:29<jm_>apparently 70-persistent-net.rules no longer applies to stretch, and yeah I am still on jessie here
04:30<raidensnake>on the working one the /sys/class/net says enxb827eb97eed6 lo
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04:31<raidensnake>in /etc/network/interfaces again on the working one it has "allow-hotplug enxb827eb97eed6" "iface enxb827eb97eed6 inet dhcp"
04:31<jm_>ok so everything matches, I suspect it will be different interface name on non-working systems
04:33<raidensnake>it seems to go by the chip number
04:33<jm_>more info here https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/PredictableNetworkInterfaceNames/
04:33<jm_>I suppose the "I don't like this, how do I disable this?" section shall help you
04:34<raidensnake>yeah I checked the non working one and the id is slightly different
04:35<raidensnake>"enxb827eb" is the same
04:35<raidensnake>but anything after that changes
04:37<jm_>yeah B8-27-EB (hex)Raspberry Pi Foundation
04:37<jm_>makes sense :)
04:37<raidensnake>do you think putting a star afdter the eb might work?
04:37<raidensnake>after*
04:38<raidensnake>to make it a wildcard?
04:38<raidensnake>or does it have toi be specific?
04:38<raidensnake>to*
04:39<jm_>no, it doesn't work that way, you'll have to go with the approach described on that page
04:39<jm_>or use something else to configure your networking, i.e. network manager
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04:40<jm_>or maybe even systemd itself -- https://www.redpill-linpro.com/techblog/2016/08/17/systemd-network.html
04:40<jm_>you don't need to do the jessie-backports part obviously
04:42<jm_>or http://xmodulo.com/switch-from-networkmanager-to-systemd-networkd.html - that one shows how to use * for matching names
04:43<babilen>raidensnake: Or just configure a network management scheme that is able to cope with different device names
04:43<babilen>Ah, jm_ just suggested that :)
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04:50<raidensnake>it would be nice to autoconfigure without having to do it manually
04:50<adhawkins>Anyone here know if I'll need to insmod part_gpt in grub.cfg to boot from a GPT disk with this partition table? http://termbin.com/r8w1
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04:50<adhawkins>grub-install has worked reporting no errors. I've also run grub-mkdevicemap and update-grub
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05:01<raidensnake>sorry to ask but how do you use this network-manager?
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05:04<raidensnake>oh nvm
05:04<raidensnake>it configured itself
05:04<raidensnake>ninicve
05:04<raidensnake>#nice*
05:05<raidensnake>it autoconfigured the network adaptor
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05:07<raidensnake>I tested it on the non-working pi and it booted
05:07<raidensnake>seems like i didn't install the package before
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05:09<RealMurphy>Hi all, brief question about stretch-backports: Over the past hours spl-0.7.3 was added, but zfs packages with the same version are still in the NEW queue (https://ftp-master.debian.org/backports-new.html) - is there a quick way for a normal user to download the .changes file along with all other referenced files? That would help us tremendously in local testing which is currently stopped due to the zfs hold-up.
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05:39<raidensnake>ok the ethernet is now resolved
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05:45<raidensnake>now the wifi doesn't want to start on either of them
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06:10<raidensnake>I installed wpa supplicant and installed the drivers but it's not beiong detected
06:11<raidensnake>any idea what's going on?
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06:21<AndChat252681>I havent managed to find a page comparing remote desktop server programs. Any suggestion which one to select that is secure and can allow remote desktop from windows android and linux
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06:36<elof__>What is the difference between *flexible usb sticks* and *USB sticks* on https://www.debian.org/distrib/netinst ?
06:37<elof__>Aren't they just a simple usb drive?
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06:44<jm_>I have no idea what the difference is supposed to be after reading that page and the manual
06:45<elof__>small cd, tiny cd?
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06:52<raidensnake>hey
06:53<raidensnake>I'm now getting an error trying to scan for networks
06:54<raidensnake>sudo iwlist wlan0 scan gives this error "wlan0 Interface doesn't support scanning."
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06:55<jm_>are you sure that interface is working OK, i.e. you installed needed firmware packages for it?
06:55<raidensnake>yes it's working
06:56<raidensnake>it sees it in ifconfig just fine
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06:57<raidensnake>it only has one
06:57<raidensnake>firmware-brck80211
06:58<raidensnake>sorry formware-brcm80211#]
06:58<jm_>yeah so that part is OK then
06:58<jm_>sorry no clue about wifi from my side - I don't use it
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07:42<Jonny>Hi does anyone know how to change the little icon avatar on the login screen (DE: XFCE)?
07:42<Jonny>I've looked everywhere. Thanks!
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07:43<Jonny>eh
07:44<Jonny>does type /msg dpkg stretch put me in a new channel?
07:44<bremner>no
07:44<jm_>not normally
07:44<Jonny>oh ok thanks
07:44<jm_>as for the icon thing - maybe check which DM you are using and then search for a solution with that
07:44<Jonny>Do you guys know how to change the login avatar icon ?
07:44<bremner>it might conceivably put you in a query with a bot
07:44<bremner>afaik, that's lightdm
07:44<Jonny>I will check xfce on google
07:45<Jonny>how do i check which lightdm i am using?
07:45<bremner>apt policy lightdm
07:45<jm_>just try this instead: systemctl show graphical.target -> Wants=...
07:45<Jonny>Ok thanks guys. I tried: systemctl show graphical.target -> Wants=... .It comes back with nothing
07:46<Jonny>My lightdm version is 1.18.3-4
07:46<Jonny>jm do you know a command that can find the file location of the login icon?
07:46<jm_>run «systemctl show graphical.target» and read what it says for the Wants= line
07:46<Jonny>ok
07:47<Jonny>Wants=hddtemp.service udisks2.service speech-dispatcher.service systemd-update-utmp-runlevel.service rtkit-daemon.service exim4.service lightdm.service
07:48<jm_>ok so it is lightdm, so maybe https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/LightDM#Changing_your_avatar
07:48<Jonny>awh, is the only way through installing accountsservice?
07:49<jm_>maybe try the other part only, i.e. write that file
07:49<Jonny>I would have to create the directory /var/lib/AccountsService/users/username though?
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07:50<Jonny>I dont have accountsservice installed. Sorry if i am confusing you. I am new to Linux :).
07:51<jm_>yeah in that case you probably need the accountsservice package installed - sorry, I don't know for sure, I just search for lightdm change user icon :)
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07:52<Infiltrator>My /sys/class/backlight/intel_backlight has disappeared after a reboot—but apci_video0 is still there—and now I cannot control the brightness. Did I accidentally remove a package or something?
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07:52<Jonny>Ah. Well thanks jm anyway! Ill install it. Do you have it installed ?
07:52<Jonny>is accountsservice safe?
07:53<jm_>no, I don't - the description doesn't sound very dangerous to me
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07:55<jm_>https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/122160/set-lightdm-user-picture mentions icon.face in your home dir, try that too
07:55<Jonny>Ok thanks jm !
07:55<Jonny>ill have a look!
07:55<jm_>another post said .face
07:56<Jonny>Yeah i've tried .face before but i don't it was in /home/ it put it in /home/user/
07:56<Jonny>they say on that link to try both.
07:56<jm_>yeah that's what I mean with "in home"
07:57<Jonny>Oh ok.
07:57<Jonny>Well i try that now.
07:57<Jonny>shall i use a 96x96 PNG like archlinux says to be safe?
07:58<jm_>probably yes
07:58<Jonny>ok i will try it now
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08:05<raidensnake>hey jm_
08:05<raidensnake>I found out the wireless issue was cause of a kernel bug
08:06<jm_>raidensnake: cool
08:06<raidensnake>all that over a bug
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08:21<Infiltrator>My /sys/class/backlight/intel_backlight has disappeared after a reboot—but apci_video0 is still there—and now I cannot control the brightness through either gnome-shell or echo 10 > /sys/class/backlight/acpi_video0/brightness (used to use intel_backlight.) How do I get inter_backlight back?
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08:31<b17>Infiltrator: you changed a kernel parameter?
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08:34<Infiltrator>b17: Not purposefully. I did install the non-free nvidia drivers recently-ish.
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08:35<Infiltrator>But I do not think that that would change the kernel parameters.
08:36<Infiltrator>/etc/default/grub has just "quiet".
08:38<Infiltrator>grub.cfg just has "linux /vmlinuz-4.9.0-4-amd64 root=/dev/mapper/lvm-root ro quiet".
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08:39<Infiltrator>I am reading that people are having success by adding "acpi_backlight=vendor", but it was working for me a few days ago without that.
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08:41<Jonny>To change login icon/avatar easily . go to /etc/lightdm/lightdm-gtk-greeter.conf and add "default-user-image=yourimagepath"
08:41<Jonny>i thought i let u know cuz i was told by everyone to do lots of other stuff :P.
08:42<Jonny>96x96 PNG
08:45<Infiltrator>Jonny: Judging by the key, I think that that would set the image for all users, unless they had their own images, so it may work for just one user, but would probably display the same image if you have more than one user.
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08:48<Jonny>Infiltrator thats interesting to know. I guess that is why it is said to use accountsservice to change login avatar so only one user is effected?
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08:49<Jonny>you don't think changing "user" in default-user-image= to your username would work? Or am i wishful thinking :P.
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08:52<Infiltrator>Adding "apci_backlight=vendor" only makes acpi_video0 disappear—it does not make intel_backlight come back.
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08:52<Infiltrator>Jonny: I highly doubt that.
08:53<Infiltrator>It would be looking for that string exactly.
08:53<Jonny>Hehe yeah.
08:53<Jonny>true!
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08:56<Jonny>Infiltrator: Is it called logging in with root when i do the "su" command?
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08:57<Infiltrator>Not sure. I think that it is still logging in.
08:57<Infiltrator>Jonny: Try installing and running lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings to set your user picture.
08:58<Infiltrator>(But unset default-user-image first to make sure that it actually works.)
08:58<Infiltrator>Alternatively, if you are the only user on the system, you can just leave it as is.
08:59<Jonny>Thanks Infiltrator. I am the only user. Thankfully. How would i run lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings? Whats the command for that? Thanks.
08:59<Jonny>I wouldn't mind doing a clean job of it i suppose.
09:00<lsou>Hi, I'm trying to remove nfsd from the kernel, I have stopped rpcbind, nfs-kernel-server and umounted /proc/fs/nfsd but I get "rmmod: ERROR: Module nfsd is in use"
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09:01<Infiltrator>Jonny: `sudo apt-get install lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings` to install it. After that, not sure what the actual command would be, but I think that `lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings` again is a good guess. You can use `dpkg -L lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings | grep bin/` to see what binaries that package has installed after you have installed it.
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09:02<Jonny>Is this for setting a login avatar seperatley for each user? Thanks. :).
09:03<Infiltrator>Probably. :P
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09:03<Infiltrator>I do not actually use lightDM.
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09:05<Jonny>Hehe. Your efforts are appreciated :).
09:05<Jonny>I would try it Infiltrator but mine works. If i had more than one user i would most certainly try it. Thanks for your help though!
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09:07<Infiltrator>No worries.
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09:11<Jonny>:)
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09:16<Infiltrator>"video.use_native_backlight=1" also does not work.
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09:23<Infiltrator>That is, it does not bring back intel_backlight.
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09:35<Infiltrator>Removing the nvidia packages and leave nouveau brings back nv_backlight (sorry for calling it intel_backlight before).
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09:36<Infiltrator>gnome-shell kept crashing before with nouveau, though, which is why I bothered installing the nvidia drivers before. Let's see how it goes now.
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09:48<apteryx>Hello! Are PPAs supported on Debian? Any reason to refrain from using them?
09:48<bremner>no, yes.
09:50<bremner>apteryx: PPAs are generally targetted at Ubuntu, and using binary packages for Ubuntu is not supported on debian
09:52<bremner>apteryx: is there some particular piece of software/version you need?
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09:54<grove>And even if they work, in addition to not being supported they are a sure way towards having a frankendebian
09:54<tarzeau>apteryx: usually ppas come with source packages, take it, rebuild it, use that
09:54<grove>!frankendebian
09:54<dpkg>When you get random packages from random repositories, mix multiple releases of Debian, or mix Debian and derived distributions, you have a mess. There's no way anyone can support this "distribution of Frankenstein" and #debian certainly doesn't want to even try. See if you can convince ##linux to help.
09:54<bluca>does anyone know what's the acpi incantation to make /sys/class/backlight/amdgpu_bl0 disappear?
09:54<tarzeau>apteryx: i've hardly ever found a package available for ubuntu, but not debian. what is it?
09:54<bluca>gnome is picking it instead of /intel_backlight which breaks the laptop brightness controls
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09:55<jonny>Why is it when i go to install a plugin on firefox quantum i get this "This add-on requires a newer version of Firefox (at least version 56.0a1). You are using Firefox 52.0."
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09:56<tarzeau>jonny: buggy software i guess
09:56<jonny>Nothing to worry about though is it?
09:56<jonny>I must have firefox ESR on my system still
09:57<tarzeau>if things work as expected, i wouldn't worry
09:57<jonny>True. Thanks tarzeau
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10:10<DCap>Hey guys, I downloaded debian-live-9.2.0-amd64-gnome.iso, burn in a usb and works but when I tried to to boot I am getting "booting kernel failed invalid argument"
10:10<DCap>I am trying to boot this live usb because I need to use, "extundelete" by mistake remove all my Documents folder (and more), somebody know how to recover files removed with "su" ? or how to fix the previous problem with the usb?
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10:11<DavePage>Hmm, how can I tell whether my Debian 9 kernel + hardware combo will support 802.11ac wave 2? "iwlist modulation" just gives me "unknown modulation information"
10:11<grawity>don't use a tool that's a decade older than 802.11ac
10:11<grawity>try `iw phy`
10:13<DCap>Somebody can help me, please?
10:13<DavePage>grawity: ta :)
10:13<bremner>DCap: you may need to wait longer then 3 minutes
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10:13<DCap>ok, sorry,
10:13<DCap>np
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10:41<rrman>Hi. THe ghost of my MTP device remains after I re-plug it. https://paste.ubuntu.com/26140000/
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10:41<rrman>What is there to do?
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12:05<rrman>rrman> THe ghost of my MTP device remains after I re-plug it. https://paste.ubuntu.com/26140000/
12:06<rrman>It got solved when I killed the process gvfs-mtp-volume. Just thought to share.
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12:06<damir>Привет
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13:21<oem>see/topic
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13:33<oem>I'm attempting to install Debian. The current OS on my HP Stream is Linux Cinnamon 18.2. I used Brasero app to download an iso image. I also used Brasero to burn C.D. Brasero said burning was successful. Debian does not load from Asus Zendrive containing burned CD, it goes straight to the usual mint screen. Bios settings have not changed since I successfully loaded Linux Cinnamon from a DVD yesterday.
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13:37<oem>correction, I loaded Linux Cinnamon successfully from a C.D., not DVD
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13:38<b17>oem: be sure and check over the faq: https://www.debian.org/CD/faq/
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13:39<oem>I believe that I checked those over rather thoroughly already, but I've learned a lot since working on this problem the
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13:41<b17>this too? https://www.debian.org/CD/verify
13:42<oem>ok. I'll check out that link ending with verify.
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13:46<oem>Brasero said that it was using checksum during the burning process. Is it still helpful to verify using a keyring?
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13:50<b17>$ sha256sum debian-live-9.0.1-amd64-kde.iso
13:50<b17>3f0d8bcb996a7050221d97cef9cb97c2253fc31864d1b2f97c40cecd283def33 debian-live-9.0.1-amd64-kde.iso
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13:51<b17>can you mount the cd and see the files or just an iso file?
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13:54<oem>I can see the cd icon on my desktop. I was pleased that this time I got it NOT to be an iso file. When I view the contents of the c.d. from the mint OS I also see a file that says README. I remember from reading the instructions at Debian.org on how to install Debian that seeing this README file is a good sign.
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13:56<oem>Does that answer your question? I didn't answer yes or no as to whether I could mount the cd because I'm not familiar with the term "mount" but I was just guessing what it meant
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13:57<b17>yes, it sounds like the burn was okay you see readme and some other files/folders
13:57<oem>great to hear it sounds like the burn worked.
13:58<apteryx>tarzeau: I was looking at g++-7 for example, working on a Debian 9.
13:59<b17>you burned the working cinnamon image?
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13:59<oem>No, actually, the working cinnamon image was purchased from OS Disc.com
13:59<apteryx>bremner: thanks for the advice regarding PPAs.
14:00<finch>i can install lamp
14:00<apteryx>(of not using them on Debian ;)
14:00<finch>or xamp
14:01<finch>can any one help me do that place
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14:07<b17>oem: i haven't burned optical in a long time, and always used wodim, and a slow speed, like 8x.
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14:10<oem>I also tried to install from two 32 GB pen drives, and my computer behaved the same way, just going straight to the usual mint desktop.
14:11<oem>(I only used one pen drive at a time)
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14:12<blast007>have you verified the boot order in the BIOS/UEFI setup program? or is there some way to trigger a one-time boot device selection?
14:12<sney>yeah, smash that boot menu button at startup
14:12<sney>it may be that your computer has some internal logic that switches the default boot device
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14:13<sney>I've seen that in the wild as an efi "feature" once or twice
14:13<blast007>the magic of horrible firmware :)
14:13<finch>hello pls i need help to install xamp on my deepin linux
14:14<oem>My tech skills are minimal but I believe that boot order is not the problem because yesterday I successfully installed Linux Mint Cinnamon 18.2 from the same external drive and I have not changed the bios settings since then.
14:14<finch>can any one help me pls do your Best to help
14:14<blast007>finch: Linux Deepin isn't Debian. You'd have to ask them.
14:15<sney>oem: like I just said, some computers will automatically change that, so you should find out what the boot menu button is (often f12 or del on hp stuff, but check the manual) and press it repeatedly after turning on your machine
14:15<ellie>hi finch
14:15<ellie>try this tutorial, seems simple enough
14:15<ellie>https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-install-linux-apache-mysql-php-lamp-stack-on-debian
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14:15<ellie>I'm not sure if your system is debian or debian/based and you are able to use apt or apt-get commands
14:15<ellie>check as root
14:16<sney>ellie: fyi, in #debian we do not support based on debian systems, if you would like to personally help finch then take it to a private message
14:16<ellie>ah okies I didn't know that :) no worries
14:16*ellie runs debian 9 herself ^.^
14:17<finch>is deepin
14:17<blast007>!deepin
14:17<dpkg>deepin is a Chinese distribution <based on debian>. It is not supported on #debian. Try their forums at https://www.deepin.org/en/, or #deepin on irc.freenode.net
14:17<oem>My computer is not one that automatically changes the boot order. Before going on to load Mint Cinnamon screen, the DVD drive also briefly lights up and makes noise, so I'm thinking that's another sign it's not boot order.
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14:18<sid_>hey i need help
14:18<sid_>i need serious assistanc
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14:18<blast007>sid_: with what, exactly?
14:18<ellie>I didn't know that. Interesting. I don't keep up to date with so many linux distros out there
14:18<b17>oem: you used dd to make the pen drive?
14:19<sid_>i reaaly am not familiar with the functions of parrot os i need to learn how to use it with the full extent
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14:19<blast007>oem: does the Linux Mint CD still boot?
14:19<blast007>sid_: please do not message me
14:19<sid_>yes
14:19<sney>sid_: parrot is not supported here
14:19<blast007>!parrot
14:19<dpkg>Parrot OS (https://www.parrotsec.org/) is a security and penetration testing distribution. It is based on Debian testing, but it is not Debian and is not supported in #debian. Seek help in #parrot on irc.frozenbox.org or try the mailing lists at http://lists.parrotsec.org/listinfo. Also ask me about <based on debian>.
14:19<oem>yep the Linux Mint CD still boots
14:20<sid_>i downloaded the os its working i dont know how to fully use it
14:20<ellie>it's probably my second or third time in this chatroom. Does it happen very often that people come here asking questions about other operating systems?
14:20<blast007>sid_: probably a sign you shouldn't be runnint Parrot then
14:20<blast007>running*
14:20<ellie>This was my default connection when I installed debian ha
14:21<sid_>dude come on
14:21<blast007>ellie: many derivative distributions don't change the default IRC channel to their own
14:21<b17>just happy for all the people, debian is cool
14:21<sid_>all i neeed is a little help
14:22<blast007>sid_: you're in the wrong channel. read what dpkg said above.
14:22<sney>ellie: distros based on debian often don't change software defaults, so software such as hexchat will connect here and automatically suggest to join #debian. (I wrote that patch and it's easy to change, but derivative developers don't care)
14:22<ellie>interesting
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14:22<ammileo>sera
14:22<sney>sid_: doesn't matter how special you think you are, it's an old rule, go to the correct channel. or use debian and party with us. those are the choices
14:22<ammileo>hello ^^
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14:23<ellie>I must agree with sney. If you don't have a ton of thngs to back up, why don't you install debian?
14:23<ellie>it's perhaps the most reliable linux distribution of all
14:23<sid_>no all you have is pride cant help a guy on how to use a os he has never used
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14:23<sney>(probably because debian won't magically turn him into a hacker ^^)
14:24<tda1>pride and accomplishment
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14:24<oem>Could my problem installing Debian possibly have anything to do with the way I installed Linux Cinnamon? When the disc to install Linux Mint first loaded I installed it in something like Systems manufacturer mode, not as an individual
14:25<ammileo>may i ask you a question... It's been a while that i got a Distro of Linux... It's a while that i cant use my wifi interface to connect it to my internet wifi connection. The only way to get internet is VIA USB... Is there someone able to help me... I'm not a Linux User... Thank you
14:25<sney>sid_: do not private message people.
14:25<ellie>cinnamon is just a desktop environment if I am not mistaken, or is it an os on its own?
14:25<ellie>I am running cinnamon
14:25<sney>ellie: he means mint, but mint is just a derivative
14:26<sney>oem: it should still let you boot the debian installer, that's outside what mint would affect
14:26<b17>it's like brothers with a different mother
14:26<oem>correct Cinnamon is just a desktop environment for mint
14:27<oem>ok Thank you for letting me know that's outside what mint would affect.
14:27<sney>ammileo: you should use the firmware image, some wifi drivers require extra files that aren't in the standard installer.
14:27<sney>!firmware image
14:27<dpkg>Unofficial <netinst> and DVD installer images containing non-free Debian firmware packages are available for installing Debian 9 "Stretch". See http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/ and ask me about <install guide>.
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14:28<ellie>ammileo, are you currently on debian and connected to the internet?
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14:28<ammileo>i'm connected with KALI OS and using my internet Mobile
14:29<b17>oem: i bet if you use dd to make a nice flash drive it will work if you can boot from usb on that thing.
14:29<ammileo>it is the only way to get connect
14:30<sid_>hey
14:30<ellie>if it helps, I did what this wiki says in order to configure my wifi
14:30<ellie>https://wiki.debian.org/ath9k_htc
14:30<ellie>change jessie for stretch if you are running debian 9
14:31<sney>I would say "what's with these linux newbies using security specialist distros" but I know the answer
14:31<ellie>lol
14:31<oem>Thanks you all, b17, sney and dpkg you are all giving me lots of new ideas of things to try.
14:31<sney>ammileo: install debian using the firmware image that dpkg linked above
14:31<ammileo>i'll try
14:31<sney>it is more likely to support your wifi during the install and after
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14:32<b17>isb is cheaper than cd i have made dozens of coasters, it takes practice.
14:32<sid_>hey i still need hel
14:32<sid_>p
14:32<b17>*usb too
14:32<sid_>i need a guideance on how to use parrot os and all its features
14:33<oem>I sympathize with your complaint of my being a newbie using Debian but I already made a purchase that said it supported Linux, only to discover after I purchased it that it doesn't support Linux Mint, only Debian
14:33<sid_>someone
14:33<sid_>any one
14:33<sid_>kk fine
14:34<ellie>sid_, I'm afraid I cannnot help as I've only used debian.
14:34<ellie>I am unfamiliar with the features of those variants of debian
14:34<sney>!ops sid_ doesn't believe this channel is only for debian
14:34<dpkg>Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, abrotman, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen, SynrG, jm_, somiaj, jelly, petn-randall: sney complains about a problem (see above)
14:34<sid_>ok do you know anyone else who does know how to use
14:34<sid_>i an using debian parrot os only
14:34<ellie>hmm nope. Sorry mate
14:34<sney>sid_: the irc link I gave you when you private messaged me will connect you to the right irc channel
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14:35<sid_>its not working i tried a lot of times
14:35<ellie>try googling for help?
14:35<ellie>or install an operating system with more support and packages ^.^
14:35<sid_>i did already no sign that why i came here
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14:35<sney>sid_: or, try using a normal OS before you try installing whatever the popular hacker distro is, so you'll actually know what you're doing
14:36<sid_>i know i just want to learn
14:36<sid_>what os do you all use
14:37<sney>this is #debian so chances are good that most of us are using debian
14:37<annadane>sid_,
14:37<annadane>!parrot
14:37<dpkg>Parrot OS (https://www.parrotsec.org/) is a security and penetration testing distribution. It is based on Debian testing, but it is not Debian and is not supported in #debian. Seek help in #parrot on irc.frozenbox.org or try the mailing lists at http://lists.parrotsec.org/listinfo. Also ask me about <based on debian>.
14:37<sney>thank you for joining us annadane I guess another time can't hurt
14:37<annadane>i skimmed the convo and no one posted it so i hope it's not spam
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14:39<sney>sid_: if you truly want to learn, then start with something more mainstream. you'll never become a security expert or l33t h4x0r or whatever you want if you don't understand the fundamentals first.
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14:40<oem>b17 what is dd? Where can I find it to make a flash drive?
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14:40<annadane>"man dd"
14:40<ellie>I'd recommend you start with a linux distro that is really hard to install and configure, so then you give up and try something like debian or ubuntu
14:40<ellie>what about slackware?
14:40*ellie chuckles
14:40<ellie>im an old lady I should behave
14:41<ellie>be back soon
14:41<annadane>more specifically just yelling at you to read the man page isn't helpful
14:41<annadane>it depends on what you want to do
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14:42<blast007>oem: if you're wanting to write one of Debian's hybrid ISOs (live DVD, netinst, or first CD/DVD in a set) to a USB stick: https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/ch04s03.html.en#usb-copy-isohybrid
14:43<b17>oem: actually dd has a sorta bad rep, it can really mess you up if you're not careful. Do refer to the faq https://www.debian.org/CD/faq/#write-usb
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14:45<blast007>mainly it's just that dd is overkill for this purpose, and cp ends up being more intuitive to use
14:45*annadane braces for the editor war...
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14:45<b17>yes, that's good advice try cp first
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14:47<blast007>I've also used Etcher.io on Windows. Haven't tried it on Linux.
14:47<b17>with usb flash we don't worry about making coasters anymore
14:48<blast007>it's more about avoiding writing the ISO to your hard drive :)
14:49<oem>I only first started using the command line during the first 11 hours I worked on this problem of how to install Debian. Would you still recommend I risk trying command line work?
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14:51<ellie>I love diversity but why are so many people inclined to run incomplete variants of stable operating systems when they can just run the operating system their variant is based upon I don't get it
14:51<b17>yeah, learn to use nano at least
14:51<oem>I'm confident that I can be careful enough to avoid writing the ISO to my hard drive
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14:55<oem>well, this cp command line seems simple. Here it goes!
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14:58<oem>I'm starting by erasing the file currently on the USB flashdrive, which didn't work, Debian 9.2.1 amd 64 1
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14:59<annadane>are you just trying to install debian? you don't have to first erase the file
14:59<annadane>if you do it properly - ie use cp while the device is unmounted - it will write over it anyway
14:59<ellie>hmm suddenly I havef no sound anywhere but spotify
15:00<ellie>no youtube or twitter videos
15:00<ellie>wonder what's up with that
15:00<annadane>it's a conspiracy by the russian government to deprive you of sound
15:00<ellie>:(
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15:00<ellie>I knew it
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15:03<b17>twitter has vids, wow
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15:20<oem>annadane Thanks, ok, I see your message I don't first have to erase the file. The USB drive I made yesterday to try to install Debian was made using USB image writer. So guys think writing it with cp is worth a try so I'm working on that.
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15:21<blast007>oem: USB image writer should be doing the same thing, so it's not likely to make a difference.
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15:26<b17>oem: see this isn't right, there should not be A file, but a file system
15:26<b17>oem "the file currently on the USB flashdrive, which didn't
15:26<b17> work, Debian 9.2.1 amd 64 1?
15:26<b17>you need to see the readme an files folders when you mount it, just like the cd
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15:31<b17>actually i dont have a redme on my install iso, just folders
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15:34<oem>Thank you again for your help. I'm planning to work on the suggestions I received so far probably for the next half hour before asking for more help
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15:37<dkmcodmcokdmcod>que onda?
15:37<dkmcodmcokdmcod>wep wep wep
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15:38<annadane>!br
15:38<dpkg>Este canal é apenas em inglês. Por favor, use #debian-br (/j #debian-br) para ajuda em portugues.
15:39<annadane>never mind
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15:52<fcp14>hia, dono why my network plasma doesn't find any wifi network and appears red icon
15:52<fcp14>on my kde
15:52<fcp14>anyone can help please
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15:52<oem>Continuing to work on getting Debian installed. Someone was saying that cp to write to a USB drive will do the same as USB writer, which I already tried, but still could not use the usb pen drive to load Debian; it went straight to the usual mint screen. I'm trying to learn how to verify that the files on the USB drive are authentic and correct. This is my first time trying to verify any image and first time trying to use GnuPG integrity
15:52<oem>check. The webpage for GnuPG says Note: you should never use a GnuPG version you just downloaded to check the integrity of the source — use an existing, trusted GnuPG installation, e.g., the one provided by your distribution. How do I use the one provided by my distribution, Linux mint? Perhaps I should go to the Mint help forum for that? I don't see GnuPG as an included app.
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15:53<somiaj>oem: what was the exact cp command you typed?
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15:55<oem>somiaj I was intending to try cp but I stopped and instead worked on verifying the image I created with USBwriter. I can try cp now
15:55<tda1>isn't gpg included in debian? so you can use that to check the download. or use the shasum
15:56<oem>shasum with a code comes up automatically. Where do I plug in the code? I thought that I would see the place to plug in the code after getting some gpg app.
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15:56<somiaj>oem: are you making the image on windows or mint? What usbwriter are you using?
15:56<somiaj>well trying to copy the image to a usb drive
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15:56<oem>on cinnamon mint 18.2
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15:57<somiaj>I don't know of any linux usbwriter software that is known to work with debian images. I would just use cp, you shoudl also share the exact cp command you are going to type before running it
15:58<oem>ok great I will share the exact command prior to typing. Good idea as this is only the 2nd time I've used the command line in my life
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16:02<tda1>i usually use dd for writing usb images, but havent done a debian one in a long time
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16:03<somiaj>tda1: cp just has nicer defaults and is what is suggested by the debian install guide. dd works just fine.
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16:05<sney>dd also has funny syntax when compared to other command line utilities so the learning curve for someone unfamiliar is a bit higher
16:07<futune>first time i saw a dd command i parsed if as logical if...
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16:08<b17>dd if= of= is very nice, cp <source> <dest> is just a different way of looking at it.
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16:09<somiaj>my understanding is cp defaults in terms of how it copies is nicer than dd, but dd is more powreful as block size and copy amount can be adjusted if needed.
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16:09<somiaj>but to copy an image that extra power really isn't needed.
16:10<b17>i think the important thing is to understand <dest> or of= is a device, not a partition.
16:12<somiaj>which is the main reason I like people to share the exact command they typed
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16:17<jhutchins>I've seen claims of performance differences between the various possible commands.
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16:19<oem>I'm planning to go into root mode by typing sudo su then my password, and then this exact command: cp <debian-9.2.1-amd64-xfce-CD-1> <(/dev/sda)>
16:20<jhutchins>oem: sudo -i
16:21<oem>Jhutchins are you saying I should type in "sudo -i" instead of sudo su?
16:21<jhutchins>oem: You should also develop the habit of using su - instead of just su.
16:21<somiaj>oem: in this case you won't have to sudo su, you can just sudo command
16:21<somiaj>oem: and that command looks fine provided you remove the <>
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16:22<somiaj>oem: one second. make sure that /dev/sda is really your usb drive, if it is not you will erase all data on /dev/sda
16:22<jhutchins>oem: Yes, more efficient. Or, yea, like somiaj said, just prefix the command with sudo.
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16:22<somiaj>oem: and I think you are missing a .iso, but I bet you got this.
16:22<jhutchins>oem: /dev/sda is usually the main hard drive.
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16:27<annadane> /dev/sdx is partition and /dev/sdx1 is device, right?
16:28<oem>somiaj, Thanks I remembered .iso with your help. As to whether /dev/sda is my hard drive or whether it is my USB pen drive, here's how I found the name of the pen drive: I went to USB stick formatter, and found a place where I could click on the dropdown menu "SanDisk CruzerGlide (/dev/sda)-32 GB" Sandisk is the name of the brand of pen drive I have, so I think that this must be the name of this drive, not my hardrive, right?
16:29<tda1>other way around
16:29<somiaj>oem: you can also run 'sudo blkid' to see what your current disks are
16:29<somiaj>annadane: you are backwards...tda beat me
16:29<annadane>yuck. confusing.
16:29<annadane>but okay
16:30<somiaj>annadane: why? /dev/sda is the device, then /dev/sda1, /dev/sda2, etc are the partitions.
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16:30<tda1>drives can contain multiple partitions, but partitions do not contain any drives
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16:31<annadane>that does make it clearer.
16:32<annadane>so dd and cp are both devices for both source and destination
16:32<annadane>afaic
16:32<annadane>afaict*
16:33<annadane>which would make the most sense
16:34<somiaj>what how does dd and cp have anything to do with naming the drive sda and the the partitions sda1, sda2, sda3, and so on?
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16:37<oem>after I ran sudo blkid in the command line, it says after /dev/sda1 (besides many other things) "LABEL=Debian 9.2.1 amd 64" does this information help clarify that my command above is correct and I will not erase my hard drive?
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16:38<annadane>it doesn't, i just mean the syntax for copying
16:38<annadane>i'm sure it's in the man pages
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16:39<oem>the LABEL=Debian 9.2.1 amd 64 must be the contents of my attempted download of Debian yesterday
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16:44<b17>oem: you booted with the usb plugged in?
16:44<oem> somiaj, can you please clarify what exactly I type prior to cp? You said: in this case you won't have to sudo su, you can just sudo command
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16:45<somiaj>oem: sudo cp debian.iso /dev/sda
16:45<somiaj>oem: in this case you don't need to become root (with su), you only need to run the copy command as root.
16:45<bremner>assuming sudo is configured.
16:46<somiaj>bremner: well they were going to do sudo su, then run cp. I just turned it into one line.
16:46<bremner>ook.
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16:47<oem>ok got it. Hi again b17 I'm about to try the idea you had earlier this afternoon with cp, and I will try booting after using cp this time instead of usbwriter
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16:49<b17>oem: well i sure admire peristence, it's really not that complicated
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16:51<b17>this always tells me what the root drive is $ mount | grep "on / "
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16:54<GIkittycat>I got two firmware blobs. They should be the same but they are not. Anyway do to a diff on them and see what as changed?
16:54<GIkittycat>Even if it is hex or whatnot.
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17:01<futune>diff file1 file2 worked for me
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17:03<futune>tested it on a file dd'ed from /dev/urandom
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17:06<oem>After I entered the command, it didn't seem to recognize the ( so I removed all "(" and ")". Then the command line read:
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17:07<oem>cp: cannot stat [name of file I typed] No such file or directory. I've double and triple checked the name of the file.
17:08<oem>I plan to use the name of the netist file, which I also downloaded, instead
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17:09<futune>is your shells current working directory correct? it should be the download location for the iso file
17:09<futune>type pwd to check
17:10<b17>oem: don;t type a lot of stuff just type the first three letters and hit tab.
17:11<oem>I typed in pwd into the command line and it read "/home/oem"
17:11<b17>cp deb<hit tab> will somplete the filename
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17:12<b17>bash completion, it's fun try it
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17:16<oem>b17, when I hit tab in the command box, the cursor blinks in the same spot as before. Does tab do anything?
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17:17<b17>cp deb<tab>
17:18<b17>if it doesnt work then the file isn't in that dir, ls will list file
17:18<b17>you will have fun, just take your time
17:19<oem>b17 when you wrote "deb" above did you intend that as an abbreviation for "debian-9.2.1-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso
17:19<oem>b17 what does ls mean?
17:20<b17>you got me, i don't know what ls stands for, but i think of it as list
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17:21<b17>it's probably list sorted
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17:23<b17>why don't you just explore the cinnamon installtion you have awhile and then install debina in a week or so after you get used to it?
17:24<oem>Ok, so I don't need to know what ls stands for, you're right. At first I just wasn't sure you meant for me to type ls into the command line. When I did, it just listed general places on my computer such as my desktop, nothing specific. I would just play around with cinnamon, but I really really want to use what I purchased, and it specifically says it doesn't work with mint, only Debian
17:24<nyan>orogkhhohyoyoyoululuohlhojlpro
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17:25<b17>if you are going to overwrite the cinnamon anyway, it might be a good learning experience to really trash it
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17:26<oem>b17 What do you mean, trash it by putting random things into the command line and seeing what happens?
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17:27<b17>yeah like that, screw up apt-get too, we all did it.
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17:27<pc>hi
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17:28<b17>just make sure you have a good install usb first
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17:29<oem>I actually successfully installed aptitude with app-get yesterday. It was my first command ever. Anyway I'd be sure to learn something by toying around, but I have time-sensitive responsibilities here I'm trying to take care of. I want to install Debian.
17:30<oem>ok, let's get a good usb install. Let's work again on making sure I got the command line right, ok?
17:30<b17>well you are well on your way you have spent a lot of time today, it's not that hard.
17:31<oem>what does <> mean in a command line, do you ever really enter those < > ?
17:32<tt>if you see like <ipaddr> then no, it's just a placeholder
17:32<tt>[] in documentation indicates optional things
17:32<oem>and what about ()?
17:32<tt>standalone, > and < are used to redirect to and from a file
17:33<oem>ok got it
17:33<tt>() do have meaning
17:33<tt>$() invokes a subshell like `` does
17:33<tt>() just does a subshell
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17:34<tt>http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/utilities/V3_chap02.html#tag_18_09_04
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17:36<oem>I removed a ( from my command line because the computer said: bash: syntax error near unexpected token '('
17:37<oem>maybe I'm not putting spaces in the right places?
17:38<oem>maybe I'm supposed to press cp then press enter then type in the rest? What assumptions might somebody whose used to using the command-line for a while forget to tell a newbie?
17:41<b17>man pages, try man cp if you don't understand cp command
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17:42<b17>and you'll get stuck, so hit q to get out
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17:45<oem>I'm dubious about trying something else beside cp before verifying that what I entered in the command line.
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17:46<oem>I'm about to give up and order a c.d.
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17:47<oem>could it be that my usb drive is not formatted correctly
17:47<b17>oem: no, formatting is a windows word
17:48<b17>there isn;t reallt formatting on linux
17:48<b17>we mkfs - make file-systems
17:49<oem>Linux cinnamon still has a usbformatter installed and I can choose from 3 types of formats
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17:50<b17>yeah well you don't have to believe me, those desktop environments are full of crap
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17:53<b17>best thing i ever read when coming to linux was this http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm
17:54<oem>trying to use cp to write Debian to a USB pen drive. here is what I typed in the command line: sudo <enter> [then, after the name of my computer and ~$ showed up, then the following]:cp<spacebar>debian-9.2.1-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso/dev/sda
17:55<oem>b17 I copied your link
18:00<FlyingPenguin>i would have rather typed sudo dd bs=4m if=debian-9.2.1-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso of=/dev/your_usb_partition
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18:01<oem>Thank you FlyingPenguin, I will try that. Is there a space after the iso?
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18:05<oem>Flying Penguin, it says dd: invalid number '4m'
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18:06<blast007>oem: cp works, but you don't press the enter key after sudo
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18:09<blast007>sudo cp /path/to/debianinstaller.iso /dev/whateveryourUSBis (making sure not to include a partition number on the device, you want the bare device like /dev/sdf, not /dev/sdf2)
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18:15<FlyingPenguin>use bs=4000 instead then
18:15<FlyingPenguin>just a test ;)
18:15<blast007>or just use cp
18:16<FlyingPenguin>that right :p
18:16<FlyingPenguin>*'s
18:16<oem>blast007 I tried what you suggested into the command line. It responds cp: missing destination file operand after (what you had me type above)
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18:17<blast007>what exactly did you type?
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18:18<FlyingPenguin>i assume you typed both operands with no space in between
18:19<oem>FlyingPenguin--please let me know what an operand is. I think it could very well involve a problem with the spaces.
18:19<FlyingPenguin>for example
18:19<FlyingPenguin>if i say ping 192.168.1.1
18:19<FlyingPenguin>the command ping has one operand
18:20<oem>ok Penguin, I understand now
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18:21<oem>so FlyingPenguin, in the line that blast007 suggests I enter, what are the commands? Sudo is the first command? Is cp the second?
18:22<FlyingPenguin>let me read
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18:23<blast007>sudo runs a command as root (or another user, if specified)
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18:25<FlyingPenguin>sudo is particular command that allows you to have full privileges
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18:25<FlyingPenguin>some commands won't run if you don't have theses privileges
18:26<FlyingPenguin>can you type pwd please
18:26<ElToro-Y-ElCuernos>Anyone know any good books that will help me become a master Debian-based Linux system admin. I have Ubuntu unleashed and frankly it don't impress me.
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18:27<ElToro-Y-ElCuernos>I am running Debian 9
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18:34<FlyingPenguin>https://books.google.fr/books?id=uRW8V9QOL7YC&pg=PT471&lpg=PT471&dq=sys+admin+debian9&source=bl&ots=TE9oI5jClc&sig=66fJbFnqd9qz7YqGYuY7R_bAdGE&hl=fr&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj1qOnNyfvXAhWIOxQKHZ_oBRkQ6AEIcDAL#v=onepage&q=sys%20admin%20debian9&f=false
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18:34<FlyingPenguin>I suggest this one Eltoro
18:34<ElToro-Y-ElCuernos>I mean it has a massive amount of fluff on how to use gui applications. The security section of the book doesn't even delve into how to use iptables to set up a firewall. I guess I am just looking for something more advanced.
18:36<ElToro-Y-ElCuernos>Can you give me a link to the hardcopy?
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18:37<ElToro-Y-ElCuernos>https://www.amazon.in/Essential-System-Administration-Tools-Techniques-ebook/dp/B0043EWUNO
18:38<ElToro-Y-ElCuernos>I don't think I can afford it...
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18:40<FlyingPenguin>you probably want some free pdf files then
18:40<oem>after entering pwd it says /home/oem
18:41<FlyingPenguin>http://www.nongnu.org/lpi-manuals/manual/pdf/GNU-FDL-OO-LPI-201-0.1.pdf
18:41<ElToro-Y-ElCuernos>https://www.amazon.com/Essential-System-Administration-Tools-Techniques/dp/0596003439/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1512776449&sr=8-1&keywords=Essential+System+Administration%3A+Tools+and+Techniques+for+Linux+and+Unix
18:41<ElToro-Y-ElCuernos>That is more manageable!
18:41<FlyingPenguin>ok oem then make sure the iso is in this directory : type ls *.iso
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18:43<FlyingPenguin>Eltoro, that's expensive
18:45<ElToro-Y-ElCuernos>What 14 bucks for a used manual?
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18:45<FlyingPenguin>lol i read 39 bucks
18:46<FlyingPenguin>oh it's for the new one
18:46<FlyingPenguin>the used manual is cheap
18:47<ElToro-Y-ElCuernos>Do you really recommend it? If so I will go ahead and order it now.
18:47<oem>FlyingPenguin, it says: ls:cannot access '*.iso' No such file or directory. I downloaded it yesterday. It doesn't say I deleted it. Where could it be?
18:49<FlyingPenguin>it's probably in the Download directory
18:49<oem>I thought that I had several downloads of Debian on my computer because when I click on the down arrow symbol at the top of my browser bar, and look at downloads, then I see several Debian files
18:49<FlyingPenguin>no problem
18:50<FlyingPenguin>go to your download directory
18:51<FlyingPenguin>cd Downloads
18:51<ElToro-Y-ElCuernos>Well the write up for this publication has sold me, Thanks FlyingPenguin!
18:51<FlyingPenguin>you re welcome :)
18:51<oem>By go to download directory, you mean click on the down-arrow symbol at the top of the browser, where I see the downloads listed?
18:52<FlyingPenguin>oem i meant from the terminal
18:52<FlyingPenguin>type : cd Downloads
18:52<oem>FlyingPenguin, I'm so sorry but does terminal mean the black box where I enter the command lines?
18:53<FlyingPenguin>yes exactly oem
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18:54<oem>It says bash: cd: downloads: No such file or directory
18:54<annadane>probably cd ~/Downloads
18:54<annadane>or Downloads probably also works but keep in mind it's case sensitive
18:54<oem>I forgot to capitalize D. Ok, now it reads, let's see
18:55<oem>~/Downloads $ This is written in a bright blue font, unlike the usual font
18:56<FlyingPenguin>type ls *.iso now
18:56<FlyingPenguin>i mean
18:56<FlyingPenguin>ls *.iso
18:57<oem>Good news, it lists the three downloads as expected. Would you like me to type them out? They are all attempts at downloading Debian.
18:58<FlyingPenguin>Ok fine
18:58<FlyingPenguin>now you can type the command :
18:59<FlyingPenguin>cp your_isofile.iso /dev/yourusbdrive
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18:59<FlyingPenguin>if you don't know what your usb drive is just type
18:59<FlyingPenguin>fdisk -l
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19:00<somiaj>blkid can also be used to try to figure out what drive is what.
19:00<ElToro-Y-ElCuernos>Wait shouldn't you use the dd command to make a bootable iso?
19:00<somiaj>ElToro-Y-ElCuernos: cp works just fine, and has better defaults and more standard syntax than dd
19:01<somiaj>oem: did the image not boot correctly?
19:02<somiaj>oem: oh you are still trying to make the image, I see.
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19:02<oem>somiaj, I never got to the booting stage. I'm glad to see you back, I had a question about something you said earlier, and it was a great idea to have me type in exactly what I entered onto the command line, but let me try this from Flying Penguin first
19:03<FlyingPenguin>type blkid oem
19:09<oem>FlyingPenguin, I remember that when I type in blkid there's a lot to report about the information that comes back, so before I do that again, I just wanted to report what happened when I entered the command you suggested above, using dev/sda to refer to the drive I'm trying to create the image on. It said after ~/Downloads $ "cp:cannot create regular file '/dev/sda': Permission denied"
19:10<FlyingPenguin>sorry forgot to ask you to type sudo before
19:10<FlyingPenguin>wait a minute
19:10<oem>oops, I should have known that as of today. I forgot, do I press enter or space after sudo?
19:11<FlyingPenguin>wait
19:11<oem>ok waiting
19:11<FlyingPenguin>are you sure that /dev/sda is your usb drive?
19:11<FlyingPenguin>i mean 100% sure
19:11<oem>I'd be happy to double check. Did you ask me to type in blkid in the terminal to double check?
19:11<FlyingPenguin>yep
19:11<somiaj>oem is very patient, seems we have done this before to ensure it is the right one.
19:12<somiaj>keep it up oem, you'll get it working.
19:12<FlyingPenguin>oh in this case then go ahead :)
19:12<somiaj>FlyingPenguin: it is good to go over it again, might help oem learn.
19:12<oem>Thanks for your sunny encouragement somiaj! : )
19:13<FlyingPenguin>so type blkid
19:14<oem>I typed it in, there's a lot there. What do I look for?
19:14<FlyingPenguin>then read the labels that you see and the type
19:14<FlyingPenguin>the goal is to find your usb drive there
19:16<oem>one of the lines says /dev/sda1: UUID= "2017-10-13-13-11-32-00" LABEL=Debian 9.2.1amd1"
19:17<FlyingPenguin>well done
19:17<oem>thanks
19:17<FlyingPenguin>so the device is /dev/sda
19:17<oem>: )
19:17<FlyingPenguin>:)
19:18<FlyingPenguin>so you can type :
19:18<FlyingPenguin>sudo cp your_iso_file /dev/sda
19:19<FlyingPenguin>tell me when it's ok for you
19:19<oem>I opened two terminals, one terminal still ends in the blue ~/Downloads $ that's where I'm to type the command?
19:20<FlyingPenguin>yes
19:20<FlyingPenguin>your iso file is in the Downloads directory
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19:23<oem>How to I verify that it worked?
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19:23<FlyingPenguin>juste type the following :
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19:24<FlyingPenguin>cd /media/your_account/
19:24<FlyingPenguin>then double tap the tab key
19:24<FlyingPenguin>it will auto complete with the available media
19:25<oem>you don't mean to literally type in the letters "your account" do you?
19:25<FlyingPenguin>no
19:25<oem>I'm not sure what my account is
19:25<FlyingPenguin>type id
19:25<oem>so type into the terminal cd /media/id/
19:26<FlyingPenguin>no i mean type the command id to see the account your logged in as
19:26<FlyingPenguin>or type the command pwd
19:26<oem>oh
19:26<FlyingPenguin>it's ll be easier
19:26<FlyingPenguin>forgot what your id is
19:27<FlyingPenguin>or you can just type : cd /media
19:27<FlyingPenguin>and then double tap the tab key
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19:30<oem>completing your last suggestion yields this response, in blue font: /media/oem S
19:30<oem>I mistyped the S, I meant $
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19:31<FlyingPenguin>ok
19:31<oem>is that a good sign?
19:31<FlyingPenguin>now tap the tab key
19:32<FlyingPenguin>or just type :
19:32<FlyingPenguin>ls
19:32<FlyingPenguin>ls means list my directory
19:32<FlyingPenguin>and cd means change directory
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19:33<FlyingPenguin>so if you say cd /media/oem/ it means "hey linux take me to the repository where you keep all the medias
19:33<annadane>in so many words
19:34<FlyingPenguin>then if you type ls : you re basically just saying "please list the content of the directory"
19:34<FlyingPenguin>lol
19:34<annadane>or if you're feeling less charitable, "hey, linux! show me the medias or i'll cut your head off"
19:34<FlyingPenguin>pmsl
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19:35<oem>ok great, I get it now. And when I type ls is says: Debian 9.2.1 amd64 1. But how do we know that's not the original Debian that I downloaded on the flashdrive? I didn't start with a blank flashdrive.
19:35<FlyingPenguin>type
19:35<FlyingPenguin>ls -rtl
19:35<FlyingPenguin>and have a look at the date and time
19:35<FlyingPenguin>sorry before
19:36<FlyingPenguin>you need to change directory to Debian 9.2.1
19:36<FlyingPenguin>just type :
19:36<FlyingPenguin>cd Deb and autocomplete with the tab key
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19:37<tt>FlyingPenguin: files on the drive will have mtimes from the .iso
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19:38<oem>I'm surprised it says October 13 9:10 and 9:11. The downloads were done today and yesterday.
19:38<FlyingPenguin>tt you re right i had forgotten that
19:38<FlyingPenguin>tt is right
19:39<tt>you can use sha256sum or whatever to confirm the drive contains the image you think it does
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19:39<oem>tt not sure how to find mtimes from the .iso
19:39<tt>not sure what you guys are trying to do
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19:40<oem>we are confirming that the image of Debian was placed on my USB pen drive, using the cp command that we just completed. The usb drive also had a download of Debian on it from yesterday, but it didn't load, it went straight to my mint screen
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19:42<FlyingPenguin>oem just because it went straight to your mint screen doesn't mean it was a bad image
19:42<FlyingPenguin>you need to specifiy in the boot sequence that you wanna boot from usb
19:42<tt>^^ did you setup boot from USB in your bios etc.?
19:43<annadane>you can usually mash F12 on boot
19:43<oem>I think I ruled out any boot sequence order problems already. Annadane, you said that earlier.
19:44<annadane>er... i didn't, but ok
19:45<oem>thanks for you alls help, let me just try to boot it now
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19:48<FlyingPenguin>by the way tt how can you list the content of an iso file (so i can sha512sum them)
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19:48<tt>eh, there's a tool or two, I forget
19:48<tt>that's not what you'd wanna do though
19:48<FlyingPenguin>how would you do it ?
19:48<tt>you'd want to dd the image back off the drive, **but only as many bytes as in the original image file**
19:49<tt>and then compare to the published sha256sum that's beside the .iso when you download it
19:49<tt>(or just compare to sha256sum <imagefile.iso>)
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19:49<FlyingPenguin>i see ...
19:50<tt>for optical media, you don't have to worry about limiting the number of bytes you read, but you do need to read using the correct sector size (usually bs=2048) or you can get different results due to padding or something.
19:51<tt>the image is smaller than the device, you see; if you just dd if=/dev/sda without specifying how many bytes to read, you'll get all the extra bytes from the end (and not get a matching checksum)
19:52<FlyingPenguin>so that's the reason why
19:52<FlyingPenguin>i was trying to figure out
19:52<oem>I need to report what happened when I tried to boot from the usb pen drive that FlyingPenguin just helped me create with the cp command. Unfortunately, it behaved exactly the same way as the usb drive created yesterday and the discs that I created yesterday, it booted straight to mint. In the case of the usb drive attempted boots, it was as if the usb wasn't there.
19:53<tt>oem: sounds like your system is not configured to boot from USB
19:53<FlyingPenguin>did you type F12 repeatedly during bootup?
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19:53<oem>I was able to successfully install Linux Cinnamon yesterday from a DVD drive. I have not changed the bios settings since that time.
19:53<FlyingPenguin>dvd drive not usb drive ;)
19:54<oem>But if there's no dvd drive, the second in line is the usb drive. Shouldn't it go to that?
19:55<FlyingPenguin>normally
19:55<FlyingPenguin>yes
19:55<FlyingPenguin>i suggest we check your image
19:56<oem>okay, let's check the image first. Actually, I was so eager to boot, I didn't successfully check when the timestamp on the usb.
19:56<somiaj>aren't the live images on legacy boot, could it be legacy boot needs to be enabled in the firmware (though I heard they now do both legacy and efi, but not positive on this)
19:57<FlyingPenguin>i have to admit i had a few problems booting my usb live images on my old computers
19:58<FlyingPenguin>do you own a recent computer oem?
19:58<oem>Yes, it was born this summer, manufactured in 2017.
19:59<oem>It is an HP stream
19:59<FlyingPenguin>lol
19:59<FlyingPenguin>you can try pressing repeatedly F12 during bootup
19:59<FlyingPenguin>can you do this test ?
20:00<tt>somiaj makes a good point.
20:00<oem>ok, sure I'll do this test.
20:00<FlyingPenguin>also please go in your bios and see if legacy boot is enabled
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20:01<oem>I'm not sure I understood somiaj's point. A live image is one that you try out of your usb drive without installing, right? I'm seeking to get Debian as the main os on my hard drive.
20:02<oem>If legacy boot is not enabled, what should I do? enable legacy boot?
20:02<tt>yes
20:02<FlyingPenguin>you can install debian from a live usb
20:03<FlyingPenguin>a live usb can also be used to boot from on any other computer
20:03<oem>It's usually F2 that gets me into the bios screen where I can change the boot order, do you still want me to hit F12?
20:03<oem>I never tried hitting F12
20:04<somiaj>oem: if the goal is to install debian, the unoffical firmware net install image maybe a better choice than the current live image.
20:04<somiaj>!firmware images
20:04<dpkg>Unofficial <netinst> and DVD installer images containing non-free Debian firmware packages are available for installing Debian 9 "Stretch". See http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/ and ask me about <install guide>.
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20:05<tt>you might also consider writing it to optical media, since you know you can boot off that. k3b is a user-friendly GUI tool you can use for burning optical discs.
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20:05<blast007>somiaj: Stretch live DVDs support UEFI booting now as well.
20:05<oem>somiaj I prefer official, because as a newbie, it sounds safer
20:06<blast007>oem: it's only unofficial in the sense that it's not the normal one.
20:06<tt>oem: it is "official" in all buy name
20:06<somiaj>blast007: I thought I heard that, but wasn't sure on the details.
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20:07<tt>UEFI implementations are still buggy etc. though, and I don't know much about it yet.
20:07<tt>I doubt oem's image is bad, it has to be either boot order or legacy boot settings
20:07<somiaj>oem: debian has strict policy about free software (DFSG), and it is only unoffical as it contains firmware which is against the DFSG, but it is made by the same people hwo make the offical images.
20:07<oem>blast and tt I've tried booting from optical media yesterday, and I ran into the computer behaving in the same way. I used Brasero to burn an image to a 700MB CD-R by memorex
20:08<somiaj>oem: so the only offical images from debian will contain only software that meets the DFSG
20:08<somiaj>so I would suggest using the unoffical net install image over the live image, since you seem to be having problems with the live image.
20:09<somiaj>That is also the prefered method to install debian.
20:09<blast007>oem: I've not kept up with the discussion, so I appologize if this was already answered. Have you checked the boot order in the UEFI setup utility? Or is there a boot override in the UEFI setup program?
20:09<oem>somiaj, that is helpful and interesting to know, so I'm thinking about giving the unofficial images a try, after exploring possible boot issues, etc.
20:10<somiaj>oem: I only suggest the unoffical images, as you most likely have wifi that requires non-free firmawre.
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20:10*tt seconds somiaj, heads out
20:10<oem>blast007 no problem, I'll get you caught up, I checked the boot order in the bios, is that the same as UEFI setup utility?
20:13<oem>leaving to check/adjust boot setting now
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20:24<FlyingPenguin>goiing to check my boot sequence
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20:29<FlyingPenguin>in my case : Bios Features => Boot Option #2 = UEFI USB Flash Disk
20:30<FlyingPenguin>and it works fine
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21:04<elof_>Has anyone tried to install Debian from usb drive?
21:05<somiaj>what do you mean? It is very common to install debian using usb drives
21:05<elof_>somiaj: the *flexible way*
21:06<somiaj>I still don't see what you mean?
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21:06<somiaj>almost all my debian installs are from a usb thumb drive.
21:06<elof_>https://www.debian.org/distrib/netinst install debian by using *flexible USB stickes*
21:08<somiaj>I guess I don't really know what a flexible usb stick is, just sounds like some media with out to much storage space.
21:08<somiaj>What sort of usb drive do you have that you want to install debian from? How much data can it hold?
21:08<elof_>somiaj: the page says so
21:09<annadane>elof_, i think you're putting too much stock in the word flexible
21:09<annadane>AFAIC it's just a smaller image
21:09<annadane>and yes, installing via a usb in general is very common
21:10<somiaj>yea, there are rare cases you want to install from media that cannot fit a netinstaller which is about 400megs, but it is rarely an issue with usb sticks to have that size limitation.
21:10<elof_>annadane: The flexible USB sticks means manually copying files not iso
21:10<elof_>https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/ch04s03.html.en
21:10<annadane>okay, so just use whatever works for you?
21:10<somiaj>elof_: any reason you want to do this besides to try it? In most cases just get the netinstall and cp it to the usb device.
21:11<elof_>I want to try *flexible usb sticks* to install
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21:12<elof_>somiaj: I have wasted blank dvd (burn the netinstall cd into blank dvd)
21:12<somiaj>then do it, you can ask questions if you run into issues, but I think it is rare that people install with such images since it isn't hard to get a usb drive that can fit a full netinstall on it.
21:12<annadane>especially with today's technology
21:12<somiaj>but if your goal is to install debian, and you don't have size limitations, I would just use a netinstall image.
21:12<annadane>and moore's law etc
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21:13<elof_>I have changed my pc equiment,so am I going to install x64, not x86 anymore.
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21:14<somiaj>It is called x86_64 (it is still x86 with 64bit extensions)
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21:14<annadane>"mini.iso", i observe, is 39 MB
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21:14<elof_>x86_64 vs. x64 ? somiaj
21:14<annadane>a USB stick with more space than that is far and away the most common
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21:15<somiaj>elof_: there really is no x64, the standard hardware is x86_64, it is still based of the i686 standards, but has 64 bit extensions (instead of the default 32bit)
21:15<annadane>my cheap 20-30 dollar USB or whatever it cost is 16 GB...
21:15<somiaj>so x86_64 can run both 64bit and 32bit software (in most cases)
21:15<elof_>what about the amd64 on the page?
21:16<sney>amd64 and x86_64 are different terms for the same thing
21:16<somiaj>annadane: at one time before usb drives became as common, there were these mini (tiny) cds that only hold 50megs, and there are still other systems in which a netinstall is to big for the install media. So there is smaller media availabe (it was supported for a long to also install from floppy drives, though I doubt many do that any more)
21:16<somiaj>there is also a netboot image which is designed for PXE booting and installing.
21:17<somiaj>!amd64
21:17<dpkg>amd64 is the Debian architecture optimized for x86-64, aka AMD64. Intel Core 2, Core i3/i5/i7 and Xeon (since 2004) systems are x86-64. The AMD64 architecture also supports running Debian i386 with either a -686-pae or -amd64 kernel. See also <why amd64> and <why not amd64>.
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21:18<somiaj>ahh it was the why amd64 factoid I really wanted, just explains the history which is how the amd64 name stuck
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21:20<elof_>the flexible way to install debian on on https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/ch04s03.html.en does not say how much storage do I need for the installation
21:21<annadane>because that's answered comprehensively in another section
21:21<annadane>https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/ch02s05.html.en
21:22<mnuhmnuh>annadane: i'm still using 4 gb sticks i bought from Staples a decade ago. no wasted obsolete cd/dvd disks to throw away.
21:22<elof_>mnuhmnuh: I have wasted dozens. lol
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21:24<somiaj>elof_: is your goal to install debian or learn how to do it this way? If your goal is to install debian, how big of a usb stick do you have?
21:24<annadane>for your USB as long as the size of the image is under the size of the USB you should be fine, it has nothing to do with the actual installation
21:25<elof_>somiaj: both of them
21:26<annadane>actually sorry https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/ch03s04.html.en is more detailed
21:27<mnuhmnuh>my debian-8.6.0-amd64-DVD-1.iso == 3994091520/4 gb.
21:27<annadane>right, that's the DVD; the regular net install is ~250 MB
21:27<somiaj>https://www.debian.org/releases/stretch/amd64/ch04s03.html.en#usb-copy-flexible
21:27<mnuhmnuh>just sayin'
21:28<elof_>but my *newer* motherboard has r8168-8.045.08 which is not supported by default debian driver
21:28<somiaj>seems strange that they put 'flexiable usb' next to 'tiny cd', and then in the install guide say this method does not work with the mini.iso, you need at least the netinstall.iso, and talks about if your usb drive is big enough.
21:28<somiaj>elof_: so grab the unoffical firmware isntaller
21:28<somiaj>!firmware installer
21:28<dpkg>Debian-Installer is able to load additional <firmware>, by including it within installation media or supplying on removable media (e.g. USB stick, floppy). See http://www.debian.org/releases/stretch/amd64/ch06s04 . To include firmware within Debian <netboot> images, see http://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/NetbootFirmware . See also <firmware images>.
21:29<mnuhmnuh>install the nonfree blob to support the generic install.
21:29<mnuhmnuh>firmware
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21:30<mnuhmnuh>eg. "apt install firmware-linux-nonfree firmware-misc-nonfree"
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21:34<somiaj>those won't pull in the firmware needed for network cards though, and may not be needed
21:34<mnuhmnuh>you could grab those pkgs first onto another usb stick, install, and installer will ask if you have other sources (local usb storage?) to include, or just install them from there once install completes.
21:34<mnuhmnuh>"eg." # sheesh.
21:35<ryouma>e.g. if you're gonna correct yourself i think
21:36<mnuhmnuh>pedant.
21:36<mnuhmnuh>exemplem?
21:36<ryouma>ex gratis i think
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21:37<ryouma>exempli gratia
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21:39<mnuhmnuh>dict example
21:39<mnuhmnuh>but we digress. sorry y'all.
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21:44<elof_>somiaj: although mine is not supported by debian, I am still able to access the Internet
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21:47<elof_>I found it is nothing different before installing the driver and the result I installed it
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21:49<mnuhmnuh>elof_: you should post relevant log entries you find to paste.debian.net
21:50<elof_>mnuhmnuh: the different is I was informed by the Debian installer and the after boot process, nothing else
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21:57<elof_>Will I get boot process log?
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21:58<elof_>and where can I find it?
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22:22<mnuhmnuh>elof_: as root, "dmesg", and look around in /var/log/messages & others.
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22:30<elof_>after I installed the realtek driver, this is my boot process http://paste.debian.net/999912/
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22:32<mnuhmnuh>i predict 90% of your prob. has been solved by this point. :-)
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22:33<mnuhmnuh>r8169 Gigabit Ethernet driver 2.3LK-NAPI loaded ...
22:34<elof_>mnuhmnuh: because I have installed....
22:36<mnuhmnuh>lspci | grep -i network
22:37<elof_>mnuhmnuh: nothing happen
22:38<mnuhmnuh>elof_: when you say "installing the driver", what do you mean exactly? how did you do that?
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22:41<elof_>mnuhmnuh: before I installed firmware-realtek, the process would prompt me the r8169 is not installed.
22:42<elof_>After I ran the "apt install firmware-realtek", the process shows it is loaded
22:43<elof_>but I still had connection before I installed it.
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22:44<mnuhmnuh>had no connection (wifi)?
22:45<mnuhmnuh>after inst. firmware-realtek
22:45<elof_>mnuhmnuh: I still have connection whether I install it.
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22:47<mnuhmnuh>what do you use to enable it there? i have network mgr. applet on mate wm; you may need to manually enable it in gui.
22:47<mnuhmnuh>config
22:47<mnuhmnuh>pwords, compression/crypto/...
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22:49<elof_>mnuhmnuh: my network is dhcp, does not need log in or such.
22:50<mnuhmnuh>odd that nothing shows up in lspci
22:50<mnuhmnuh>after installing firmware
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22:51<mnuhmnuh>you should find log entries which mention detecting then failing to enable it.
22:53<mnuhmnuh>dmesg | grep -i r8168
22:53<mnuhmnuh>elof_: dmesg | grep -i r8168
22:54<mnuhmnuh>elof_: "dmesg | grep -i r8168"
22:54*mnuhmnuh "dmesg | grep -i r8168"
22:54<elof_>I cannot find the log
22:55<mnuhmnuh>sorry about multiples. oops.
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22:56<elof_>I can't find the log
22:56<elof_>mnuhmnuh:
22:56<mnuhmnuh>dmesg is a command. /var/log/messages is a text file. journalctl may be a better way nowadays (i'm old :-).
22:58<tt>e.g. can replace "for example" or "An example:"
22:58<tt>i.e. replaces ", that is, " or "that is to say"
23:00<elof_>mnuhmnuh: the file is blank
23:00<tt>“It's stable (i.e., Stretch).”
23:01<mnuhmnuh>so journalctl
23:02<elof_>http://paste.debian.net/999913/
23:04<tt>are you the person with the SDIO wlan card
23:04<mnuhmnuh>in journalctl, "/r8168"
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23:05<mnuhmnuh>no quotes
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23:05<elof_>mnuhmnuh: what do you mean " journalcti /r8168"?
23:06<elof_>tt: this computer is a desktop not a laptop.
23:07<mnuhmnuh>the slash then r8168 searches for those chars.
23:08<elof_>pattern not found
23:09<mnuhmnuh>mine's a tower too. i don't bother w wifi. i use eth0 plugged into router.
23:10<mnuhmnuh>how about uppercase R8168 or just 8168?
23:10<elof_>not found for both keywords
23:12<mnuhmnuh>have you looked at firmware-realtek pkg. details/info/whatever on tracker.debian.net? how new is your wifi device?
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23:13<somiaj>the paste that elof_ poasted a while ago seems to say that the firware was correctly loaded.
23:14<elof_>mnuhmnuh: I do not use wifi
23:14<somiaj>r8168 is one of the few wired devices that requires firmware.
23:15<elof_>somiaj: although I was prompted about the driver, somehow , I still have connection.
23:16<somiaj>elof_: you have the firmware installed. Did you use the non-free firmware image I linked?
23:17<somiaj>at least the past you shared, http://paste.debian.net/999912/, seems to correctly show you have loaded the firmware.
23:18<elof_>somiaj:I didn't, but I also edited my sources.list to be able download the non-free
23:18<mnuhmnuh>elof_: i'm confused. you don't use wifi, intentionally? what *are* you trying to do, if you have eth0 working?
23:19<somiaj>elof_: either way that links seems to say things are working, and you say you have a connection, so what is the problem?
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23:19<elof_>somiaj: I want to know if I install via network, will I have the driver problem?
23:22<somiaj>not if you use the unofical firmware image that contains the firmware that I linked a while ago.
23:29<elof_>does the installation guide have the tutorial teaches me how to make the usb drive bootable?
23:33<somiaj>yes, but really just cp debian.iso /dev/sdX where /dev/sdX is your usb drive
23:34<mnuhmnuh>bios & uefi in the way?
23:34<elof_>What do you think about the method ( 4.3.3. on the installation guide_ mnuhmnuh
23:34<elof_>somiaj:
23:35<elof_>troublesome?
23:39<mnuhmnuh>you mean https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/ch04s03.html.en ?
23:39<mnuhmnuh>i've seen nothing wrong in there.
23:39<elof_>mnuhmnuh: yes the 4.3.3 on that page
23:41<mnuhmnuh>all you need is "cp blah.iso /dev/sdX" and reboot selecting boot from usb key.
23:41<elof_>I only have a 32GB usb drive at the time.
23:41<mnuhmnuh>plenty.
23:42<elof_>mnuhmnuh:don't I have to make it bootable first?
23:42<mnuhmnuh>or is that your target once installed
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23:43<mnuhmnuh>no, just cp.
23:43<elof_>mnuhmnuh: nope, it is my installation media.
23:43<mnuhmnuh>hooray!
23:45<elof_>cp: cannot create regular file '/dev/sdb': Permission denied
23:46<somiaj>you have run the command as root
23:46<elof_>okay, I have done.
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23:46<mnuhmnuh>i don't know why that 4.3.3.1 says to fiddle w install-mbr and mkdosfs. i assume they're suggesting them for very exotic weird usbkeys.
23:47<mnuhmnuh>i've never needed them.
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23:48<mnuhmnuh>as long as the lizard brain (bios) in your pc can be pointed to boot from usbkey, you're good to go.
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23:50<somiaj>mnuhmnuh: no, they are giving you a way to manually set up an installer via syslinux, and give you a key you can add extra files to.
23:51<somiaj>there are various reasons to do this. You could put multiple boot images on a single cd, you can add firmware files if you don't awnt a full firmware installer, add custom packages, boot iso's that are not made to be bootable, etc.
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---Logclosed Sat Dec 09 00:00:26 2017