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#debian IRC Logs for 2017-12-10

---Logopened Sun Dec 10 00:00:59 2017
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01:10<girlbeach>http://www.triphile.com/2017/06/bamburg-hotel_16.html ,the 3rd picture is me
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01:33<gregoire_>I created a usb stick with debian-9.2.1-i386-DVD-1.iso with sudo dd if=/Users/gregoire/Downloads/debian-9.2.1-i386-DVD-1.iso of=/dev/disk3 bs=4M && sync and don't function like with unetbootin i have a flash white dash on screen, the destination uc for install is a vortex86 cpu small 2005 mini pc without fan, i have sucess boot to desktop with live cd debian-live-9.2.0-i386-xfce.iso build with unetbootin, b
01:34<gregoire_>but after try boot with debian-9.2.1-i386-DVD-1.iso i can boot another time with debian-live-9.2.0-i386-xfce.iso (same key use for differents try, write again)
01:36<gregoire_>*i can't
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01:49<larjona>gregoire_: maybe the download got corrupted? The 9.3 images are just released, maybe you can download again (9.3-i386) and try that one (or the multiarch one)
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02:04<gregoire_>i think not i try with twice with 2 isos differents
02:04<gregoire_>the shit is i don't understand why second try with live done same result than other
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02:05<gregoire_>may be is necessary to format before dd or dd format ?
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02:13<casawi>ciao
02:16<casawi>you do not appear to be using the nvidia x driver please edit your x configuration file just rin nvidia-xconfig as root and restart
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02:38<gregoire_>https://framapic.org/9bPIrTooyNpO/DKUaRHw5gvOt.JPG
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03:00<casawi>you do not appear to be using the nvidia x driver please edit your x configuration file just rin nvidia-xconfig as root and restart
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03:10<somiaj>nvidia-xconfig makes a poor config file, all you need is about 4 lines
03:11<somiaj>https://wiki.debian.org/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers#Manual
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03:11<somiaj>that should be enough
03:14<casawi>bash: /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/20-nvidia.conf: Permesso negato
03:16<somiaj>you either have to run that full command as root, or run
03:16<somiaj>echo -e 'Section "Device"\n\tIdentifier "My GPU"\n\tDriver "nvidia"\nEndSection' | sudo tee /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/20-nvidia.conf
03:16<somiaj>if you run that command with sudo, the redirect won't work as root.
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03:17<casawi>si
03:17<casawi>sudo /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/20-nvidia.conf
03:17<casawi>root
03:18<somiaj>casawi: run this command:
03:18<somiaj>echo -e 'Section "Device"\n\tIdentifier "My GPU"\n\tDriver "nvidia"\nEndSection' | sudo tee /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/20-nvidia.conf
03:19<somiaj>!es
03:19<dpkg>Este canal es de soporte técnico en Inglés para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en Español, puede ingresar en #debian-es tecleando /join #debian-es en la línea de chat.
03:20<casawi>he writes me commands that I have to do on the terminal thanks
03:20<somiaj>casawi: for support in espanol.
03:20<casawi>ita
03:20<somiaj>sorry.
03:20<somiaj>!it
03:20<dpkg>Ciao, vai su #debian-it per ricevere aiuto in italiano. Italian Speakers: Please use #debian-it, there you will get much more help.
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03:22<david>hello
03:22<casawi>samper tu dpkg me deci go debian ita you only know it
03:22<somiaj>casawi: dpkg is bot
03:23<david>dpkg*reconfigure
03:23<casawi>-bash: /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/20-nvidia.conf: Permesso negato
03:24<somiaj>casawi: you need to edit this config file.
03:24<somiaj>casawi: nano /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/20-nvidia.conf
03:25<casawi>somiaj yes nanoo thanx
03:25<casawi>(Y)
03:25<somiaj>casawi: copy/paste Section .. EndSection from https://wiki.debian.org/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers#Manual
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03:27<casawi>somiaj open terminal sudo nano /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/20-nvidia.conf
03:28<somiaj>casawi: http://paste.debian.net/1000040/ -- put that into that config file.
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03:31<casawi>ok i entered nano /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/20-nvidia.conf i copied on nano Section "Device"
03:31<casawi> "My GPU" Identifier
03:31<casawi> Driver "nvidia"
03:31<casawi>EndSection
03:32<casawi>what I do now
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03:35<somiaj>casawi: restart
03:35<somiaj>casawi: well save, then restart
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03:37<abgr>i'm trying to undo the most recent upgrade, so i got the previous versions from the aptitude log, and tried to install those specific versions. however, i get 'unable to get a version "version" for the package "packagename". how do i do this?
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03:38<abgr>the above seems to be most frequently recommended when googling "undo apt upgrade"
03:38<somiaj>abgr: the mirrors won't contain the older versions. You may have the .deb files in /var/cache/apt/archives, other wise look at snapshot.debian.org
03:39<somiaj>casawi: https://wiki.debian.org/it/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers#Manuale (might help)
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03:48<abgr>somiaj: i'm trying snapshot.debian.org, but i
03:48<abgr>sorry
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03:49<abgr>after some searching i'm still not clear on how to use it. it suggests adding a repository with a given date to sources.lst. i don't have a specific date, i have specific package versions from different dates, depending on how long ago the update was
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03:52<somiaj>abgr: I personally just manually download the .deb files, but I'm not that worried about not using apt. You will have to track down each package version, and add a repo for each one.
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03:55<abgr>somiaj: ok, this seems unfeasible, there were at least 20 new packages, i was hoping to do this in an automated fashion, since i also don't know the culprit. i guess i could try the usual suspects first, like kernel, xorg, etc
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03:56<abgr>btw, this is the first time *ever* in 7 years of using debian stable that an upgrade messed up my system
03:56<somiaj>abgr: apt doesn't have a nice downgrade option, nor does it have an undo option. In many cases that is what people do in testing/unstable, is downgrade the packages they think the bug is in
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03:56<somiaj>abgr: what version of debian are you running and what is your issue?
03:56<abgr>somiaj: jessie, and serious graphics issue (screen content flickering, displacement) directly after the last upgrade (today)
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03:57<abgr>i know i should try to track it down and make a bug report, but i was planning to do something else today :-/
03:58<somiaj>abgr: what video driver are you using?
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03:59<abgr>somiaj: intel. but i just checked. there weren't even any xorg packages in the upgrade. i guess i'll try to rule out the kernel first.
04:00<somiaj>yea, it is most likely the kernel.
04:00<somiaj>abgr: you aren't the only one I've heard have trouble with the newer kernel. Heard of a few people with kernel panics too.
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04:00<somiaj>already some bug reports against it.
04:01<abgr>at least this way i can make a bug report because i'll know which package
04:01<abgr>was planning to set up lvm snapshots at some point, should have done that already
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04:12<abgr>somiaj: thanks for your help. i fould there was still an older kernel installed, so far no graphics issues, i'll keep watching it for a while longer
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04:12-!-AzaToth is "Carl Fürstenberg" on #debian-perl #debian-mentors #debian
04:13<somiaj>abgr: what older kernel was still installed? uname -a?
04:13<somiaj>what kernel was the new one?
04:13<somiaj>the older kernel might not have been the one you running before.
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04:23<abgr>somiaj: i know. it was 4.9.0-3, the faulty one is the latest version of 4.9.0-4. but since it happened immediately after the upgrade, it's still safe to assume that this is it
04:24<abgr>btw, using stretch (i said jessie before, these days i'm losing track of such things)
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04:27<abgr>ok, now i bootet into the current kernel again, dmesg says '[drm:gen8_irq_handler [i915]] *ERROR* CPU pipe A FIFO underrun'. is there anything else i should include in a bug report except dmesg?
04:28<abgr>i don't know what it means but it sounds like it might have something to do with it
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04:37<xormor>Linux debian-9-hyva-kone 4.15.0-rc2 #1 SMP Sat Dec 9 13:21:51 EET 2017 x86_64 GNU/Linux
04:38<xormor>do I have the latest kernel compiled now? This is the version I got from github.com, from user "Torvalds". I suppose it is Linus Torvald's username on git(hub).
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05:54<grove>Nowadays it's hard (and uncommon) to have a mailserver running on your desktop machine. What is a good way of monitoring the health of the raid on your desktop (if graphical it should preferably integrate well with i3)?
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06:10<jelly>grove: it's not that hard to install and configure something like msmtp-mta, or some other null mailer with ability to send you mail over an authenticated account someplace else
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08:13<evaluate1>Hello.
08:13<evaluate1>Does anyone know where I could find the scripts that generate the netboot ISOs (e.g. https://cdn-aws.deb.debian.org/debian/dists/stretch/main/installer-amd64/current/images/netboot/gtk/mini.iso) ?
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08:23<themill>evaluate1: https://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/debian-cd/debian-cd.git and siblings
08:24<evaluate1>themill: Thank you!
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08:34<elof_>My Debian cannot play sound, although it has volume control on the panel.
08:34<elof_>how would I deal with it?
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09:34<fxb>can someone explain why apt wants to update firefox-esr from wheezy/updates (same as `oldoldstable` (not sure)) ? I thought updates to packages installed from stretch would be obtained through stretch/updates...
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10:05<blast007>fxb: are you mixing wheezy and stretch?
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10:07<fxb>blast007: yes I have wheezy/updates main in my sources.list
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10:09<fxb>i guess i don't understand why stretch/updates has 52.5.0 while wheezy/updates has 52.5.2
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10:10<blast007>why are you mixing?
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10:11<fxb>seems I needed that for libgcrypt11 at some point, i should probably comment that source out now
10:11<blast007>!frankendebian
10:11<dpkg>When you get random packages from random repositories, mix multiple releases of Debian, or mix Debian and derived distributions, you have a mess. There's no way anyone can support this "distribution of Frankenstein" and #debian certainly doesn't want to even try. See if you can convince ##linux to help.
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10:12<blast007>the proper way would have been to build that package against Stretch, not mix releases
10:13<fxb>i see, thanks
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10:14<fxb>still, since 52.5.2 seems to be a security update, is it safe to stay on 52.5.0 in order to maintain that clean stretch distro ?
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10:30<blast007>fxb: the issue doesn't seem to be all that bad, really. it's more of a privacy/tracking issue dealing with private browsing than an actual exploit. (basically, there's a bug that allows storing persistent data from a Private Browsing session)
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10:31<blast007>https://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/CVE-2017-7843 not yet fixed in jessie, stretch, or buster
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10:32<fxb>oh interesting thanks! I'm guessing it will eventually be fixed in stretch if the same bug is present.
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10:34<fxb>i've decided to keep oldoldstable in my sources but pin all packages with -1 priority except for libgcrypt11 at 499. This way apt doesn't try to update firefox-esr to 52.5.2 from oldoldstable, but I should get future updates to libgcrypt11... anyway it's a bit more clear to me now, thank you
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10:36<bremner>keeping oldoldstable in your sources.list is saying "OK, I'm on my own and don't need any more support"
10:36<bremner>to beat a dead horse.
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11:35<mnuhmnuh>ick. yucky way to do this !@#$. makes you look like a doctor, or lawyer (!), running a computer. read "dummy".
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12:01<jhutchins>!alsa checklist
12:01<dpkg>1) add yourself to the 'audio' group (log out & in again) 2) unmute and raise channels w/ alsamixer (also try muting some & toggle jack sense if available) 3) <pulseaudio> or other daemon stopped? 4) speakers on? 5) does "aplay /usr/share/sounds/alsa/Noise.wav" work for root? 6) purge any installed <oss4> packages to remove ALSA blacklist. See also <list alsa users>, <alsa firmware>.
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12:09<jean_>hi!
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12:10<jean_>problem with password
12:11<somiaj>describe your problem.
12:11<mnuhmnuh>jean_: can you login (su -) as root? then "passwd $username"
12:12<jean_>on terminal usermod -a-G dialout, i can't type my password or this on e is strong
12:13<mnuhmnuh>jean_: can you login ("su -") as root? then "passwd $username"
12:13<jean_>yes sudo
12:13<mnuhmnuh>jean_: then "passwd $username"
12:13<somiaj>jean_: when running sudo, are you using your password, or roots password?
12:14<jean_>i dont know i am novice
12:14<somiaj>jean_: I'm asking what you are doing, hopefully you know what password you have typed.
12:14<somiaj>jean_: with sudo, use the password of the user (don't use roots password)
12:14<jean_>i think they are same
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12:15<mnuhmnuh>jean_: that's bad.
12:15<jean_>ok how can i c
12:15<jean_>hange it
12:15<mnuhmnuh>if you use sudo, you don't need root pword, really.
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12:15-!-tobi is "Tobias Frost" on #debian #debconf-video #debian-til #debian-mia #debian-ftp #debconf #debian-games #debian-mentors
12:16<mnuhmnuh>if your user pword works, it should be all you need for most things.
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12:17<mnuhmnuh>to change root pword, login as root (in a terminal) then "passwd"
12:18<mnuhmnuh>same for user pword.
12:18<mnuhmnuh>no root login necessary though.
12:18<jean_>well problem from the biblio of arduino I can't install with sinaptic
12:19<jean_>coompilation is with ... example.tar.xz
12:19<mnuhmnuh>er. i may have stated that confusingly, sorry. :-|
12:20<jean_>but if i can use terminal I think I can installl the application
12:21<jean_>thank you I try again
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12:22<jhutchins>jean_: http://www.linuxcommand.org/ https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BasicCommands http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2005/05/20/terminal1.html http://www.ischool.berkeley.edu/~kevin/unix-tutorial/toc.html http://linuxcommand.org/lc3_learning_the_shell.php http://linuxcommand.org/tlcl.php
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13:26<casawi>ciao
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13:27<casawi>problem install firefox su debian9
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13:27<casawi>Lettura elenco dei pacchetti... Fatto
13:27<casawi>Generazione albero delle dipendenze
13:27<casawi>Lettura informazioni sullo stato... Fatto
13:27<casawi>E: Impossibile trovare il pacchetto firefox-locale-it
13:27<casawi>Impossibile trovare il pacchetto
13:27<bremner>!it
13:27<dpkg>Ciao, vai su #debian-it per ricevere aiuto in italiano. Italian Speakers: Please use #debian-it, there you will get much more help.
13:27<bremner>again.
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13:28<bremner>oic, the question is in english.
13:28<bremner>what's the trigger that explains how to get english error messages?
13:28<casawi>install firefox debian9
13:28-!-earthundead [~earthunde@91.239.69.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:28<petn-randall>!localized errors
13:28<dpkg>To provide command output in English instead of your native language, set your locale to an English one (e.g. C) prior to running the command, e.g. "LC_ALL=C apt-get -f install".
13:28<casawi>Impossibile trovare il pacchetto
13:29<petn-randall>casawi: You'll have to speak english in here, or use the other channel.
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13:29<casawi>ok
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13:29<casawi>speak en
13:29<bremner>there don't seem to be "firefox-locale" packages
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13:30<mnuhmnuh>dpkg-reconfigure locale
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13:30<petn-randall>casawi: What are you trying to do? That package doesn't exist.
13:30<mnuhmnuh>dpkg-reconfigure locales (?)
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13:31<mnuhmnuh>(as root)
13:31<mnuhmnuh>(or sudo)
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13:39<casawi>as sie configures nvidia-xconfig
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13:46<dbb>hi all - I am in the US and reading a lot about the Kubernetes conference.. this leads to OpenContainer Initiative and other industry things.. can anyone point to *current* Debian and container info ?
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13:46<dbb>I see the Docker page in debian wiki, but it was last updated in June, and is short
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13:55<petn-randall>dbb: AFAIK there aren't any "official" Debian docker containers, but only those provides by volunteers.
13:56<dbb>hm
13:57<dbb>.. and the containerd / Docker support .. what group does that ?
13:57<dbb>within Debian.. maybe I can look
13:58<petn-randall>dbb: the tracking page is here: https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/docker.io
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13:58<dbb>ah that helps thx
13:58<dbb>I did this .. https://packages.debian.org/search?suite=default§ion=all&arch=any&lang=en&searchon=names&keywords=docker
13:58<petn-randall>dbb: Top left has a link to the docker packaging team
13:59<petn-randall>dbb: It's called "docker.io" in Debian because the name "docker" was already taken.
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13:59<mnuhmnuh>https://wiki.debian.org/Docker # ?
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13:59<dbb>mnuhmnuh: I did look there before asking
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14:00<dbb>da-DA-da-da-da mnuhmnuh
14:00<dbb>:p
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14:03<dbb>oohh that page lists MobyProject as the homepare
14:03<dbb>homepage .. https://mobyproject.org/
14:04<mnuhmnuh>dbb: i got kicked from #philosophy for doin' that (singing). :-)
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14:07<dbb>hmm .. so these ( golang-github-docker-swarmkit-dev) are what is cooling off.. while the kubernetes gang gets bigger.. thats what I am getting from this weeks announcements
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14:09<dbb>enormous participation with the kubernetes ecosystem, it seems
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14:09<dbb>the other solutions from big-name vendors are backing up..
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14:10<dbb>these are outsides observations.. looking for indicators from Debian.. that package tracker page is good
14:10<dbb>thx
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14:21<iobound>any news regarding the debian 8.10 kernel panic i mentioned here yesterday? seeing more people reproducing it in the bug at https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=883938
14:21<judd>Bug http://bugs.debian.org/883938 in src:linux (open): «linux-image-3.16.0-4-amd64: Kernel panic on boot after upgrading to debian 8.10 kernel 3.16.51»; severity: grave; opened: 2017-12-09; last modified: 2017-12-09.
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14:42<somiaj>iobound: I haven't heard much. The bug report is the best thing to follow for updates, espically if anything comes from the debian kernel matainers
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14:51<tt>Good morning, world! Remember: Debian loves you and wants you to be happy!
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14:53*bremner skeptical
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15:05<jhutchins>iobound: Might also consider following the announce and security mailing lists. More reliable than here.
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15:22<ryouma>i am going to get a sound card that you just plug in (because my onboard one went fuzzy). what will i need to do to activate the new card and turn off the old card?
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15:30<jhutchins>ryouma: Is the old one built-in?
15:30<ryouma>jhutchins: yes
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15:31<jhutchins>You can probably disable it in the BIOS. There are also ALSA configuration files where you can choose/prioritize the cards.
15:31<ryouma>thanks
15:32<jhutchins>Not sure where in the ALSA docs it explains it.
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15:42<lmw>Hey kgbme
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15:43<kgbme>hey! <3
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15:43<ntiepagkikas>who
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15:44<ach>?
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15:47<lmw>Banana!
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16:01<somiaj>ryouma: just use .asoundrc or /etc/asoundrc, the new alsa is nice because you can identify things by name.
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16:02<somiaj>ryouma: http://paste.debian.net/1000098/ -- that is my $HOME/.asoundrc for my sblive card. you can cat /proc/asound/cards to get the card number and name string.
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16:02<somiaj>the nice thing about the name is it stays even if the order is different after a reboot.
16:03<somiaj>I also wrote a small bash script that lists the cards and lets you set them based off the number if you would like.
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16:06<ryouma>somiaj: thanks. this will work in jessie and stretch?
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16:39<marek>halo halo
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18:06<somiaj>ryouma: I'm unsure what version of alsa names were allowed. It might be in jessie you have to use card numbering which changes. Otherwise yes.
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18:38<lorenz>12345678
18:38<lorenz>12345678
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18:39<petn-randall>People should stop typing their passwords into IRC windows.
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18:42<somiaj>a poor password at that.
18:43<acald3ron>lol
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18:54<Iridos>8 digits… that's pretty secure
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18:55<somiaj>even sequential digits?
18:55<ach>ho ho ho Debian
18:55<Iridos>well, nobody knows about dat
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19:00<Iridos>joking aside… guess you heard that the now age-old advice on how to deal with passwords has been pretty much revoked
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19:00<Str8JktDad>guilty!!!!
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19:01<somiaj>Iridos: the four dictonary words is good security?
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19:01<Iridos>close
19:02<Iridos>forcing your users to change from one impossible-to-remember to another every month is not
19:03<Iridos>"yay"
19:03<somiaj>oh yea, my university does that, and we joke all the time about how that security method is fairly poor.
19:03<nevyn>sigh the problem is passwords are just terrible
19:03<somiaj>I think the issue is mostly people write their passwords down, which causes the problem. I really think the only time one should suggest changing passwords is if the hash database gets compermised.
19:03<Iridos>yeah… nobody with two brain cells to rub together could have seen that
19:03<nevyn>no no...
19:04<nevyn>writing your password down is good
19:04<somiaj>we are moving to two factor authentication.
19:04<ach>key files best shit for that job
19:04<somiaj>nevyn: on sticky notes, stuck to your monintor....(:
19:04<nevyn>like not on a postit on you monitor.. but a piece of paper in your wallet fine
19:04<somiaj>yea, humans are really good at securing small pieces of paper.
19:04<somiaj>(if they value the paper, but the chaninging your password every 3 months makes them loose value)
19:05<petn-randall>Well, Apple recently introduced 2FA. Now you have to know the username _AND_ the password to log in.
19:05<nevyn>so password managers are ok and key's arn't really a solution
19:05<nevyn>most people can't do key security right
19:06<Iridos>two-factor can be good… depends what you take as factors
19:06<nevyn>also keys change the attack vectors and risks significantly (and not always for the better) (offline passphrase bruteforce)
19:07<nevyn>one of the good things about passwords is that you can manage oracle attacks.
19:07<Iridos>dunno… I'm waiting for something really creative turning up that uses some kind of challenge-response thing… where the human has to respond
19:07<ach>chess don't jugde
19:07<Iridos>but making that isn't trivial
19:07<nevyn>Iridos: like captcha?
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19:08<Iridos>no
19:08<nevyn>there's been some stuff around images and such.
19:08<Iridos>something that can replace your password
19:08<Iridos>so… a challenge that you can answer as a person with a shared secret
19:09<Iridos>and the server can generate challenges without even knowing the full secret (in a way that it itself could answer the challenges)
19:09<somiaj>petn-randall: I like a lot of the smart phone app 2fa, as it is common for most people to have that. So one needs both the password and the persons smart phone (provided those apps can't be hacked)(
19:10<nevyn>I like the 2fa google/facebook/microsoft stuff
19:10<petn-randall>I'm a little sad my joke went unnoticed :'(
19:10<Iridos>petn-randall, sorry 'bout that
19:10<Iridos>I guess you were too close to reality there
19:10<somiaj>though that is a very good thing to know about wordpress. Do not use any standard/default username, increases security a lot. I get lots of bot attacks, but they are always tyring to login as non-existant users.
19:10<nevyn>so fundamentally the problem with keys is.. it's something you have (private key) but it's digital easily replicable and vulnerable to offline attack
19:11<petn-randall>somiaj: Same with SSH really.
19:11<petn-randall>nevyn: Not that different from passwords.
19:11<nevyn>petn-randall: passwords arn't vulnerable to offline attacks
19:12*Iridos reads the password off nevyns sticky note
19:12<somiaj>unless someone gets ahold of the hash database
19:12<petn-randall>^
19:12<nevyn>yeah but at that point they've compramised the secure system
19:12<nevyn>to get the ssh key they have to compramise the users machine
19:12<nevyn>different surface ^^
19:13<nevyn>securing ssh keys requires users to have good practices in storage and management
19:13<Str8JktDad>my wife has restorted to using combination of four letter words because she gets so frustrated with changeing her passwords at here office...lol
19:13<somiaj>nevyn: or they compramised some other systems security, and you use the same password everywhere.
19:13<nevyn>yep
19:14<nevyn>so I have worked in places that ban ssh keys
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19:14<nevyn>and while it makes me sad I can see why.
19:14<somiaj>my how times have changed. Not a big rms fan, but always like the story of when users/passwords were first intrduced, and he had most people rebel by using blank passwords.
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19:16<somiaj>my passwords are good, my problem is if anyone gets ahold of my password database, (which I should split up, so my database at work doesn't contain all of them)
19:16<Iridos>well, he did introduce/promote the idea information freedom and free software into the world
19:16<somiaj>Iridos: though I doubt he still uses a blank password.
19:16<Iridos>as far as that goes, I guess I am "a big fan"
19:17<Iridos>I think I have seen that same(?) talk/interview
19:17<somiaj>I'm glad the world has people like rms, even if somethings he takes to far.
19:17<Iridos>or one very similar one… it impressed me
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19:17<Iridos>yes
19:18<somiaj>but these days i lean more towards mit/bsd style license of gpl due to the too far bit.
19:18<Iridos>if you admin machines, it is good to think about what restrictions you pose on your users… and important to wonder if they are really necessary or not
19:18<Iridos>even if your answer to that may be different from that rms would have given
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19:19<Iridos>still… there's a lot of restrictions that people build up just "because that's how it's done"
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19:20<Iridos>and when you realize that, and you can choose how to do it, maybe do it differently
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19:26<Iridos>mh, meh. the new NIST document on passwords is at https://pages.nist.gov/800-63-3/sp800-63b.html
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19:26<Iridos>hm, see appendix a on passwords, actually
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19:27<Iridos> The most notable form of these is composition rules, which require the user to choose passwords constructed using a mix of character types, such as at least one digit, uppercase letter, and symbol. However, analyses of breached password databases reveal that the benefit of such rules is not nearly as significant as initially thought [Policies], although the impact on usability and memorability is severe.
19:27<Iridos>:D
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19:31<somiaj>And the admins here are tottally aware of this, but still use some of these silly policies (I wonder if it is to appease those who are not as well informed on these studies), which is a poor reason, but what I'm stuck with...such a pain every 3 months...
19:32<somiaj>Iridos: the thing a few us laugh at, is they even suggest the 'just agument a number by 1 each time to help memorize this', which almost defeates the whole policy....
19:33<petn-randall>Well, to be fair, it would probably be easier to just check the password against the top 1M passwords (or slight variations) before allowing it.
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19:34<nevyn>the problem is that some places end up with requirements to implement that junk
19:34<nevyn>because of regulation and such
19:34<nevyn>CIS/SAN still reccomend it afaik
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19:35<nevyn>also you end up with regulations that say you must implement 'best practice' which ends up being CIS/SAN/Gartner which comes back to this same junk.
19:36*bremner looks meaningfully at /topic
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19:43<somiaj>bremner: yea been noticing that for a while.....:/
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22:40-!-tobi_ [~tobi@p5DDF2BD5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #debian
22:40-!-tobi_ is "Tobias Frost" on #debian #debconf-video #debian-til #debian-mia #debian-ftp #debconf #debian-games #debian-mentors
22:41-!-galex-713 [~galex-713@2a01:e0a:54:cb90:a8d:eeb9:e249:ce2c] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:41-!-galex-713 [~galex-713@2a01:e0a:54:cb90:a8d:eeb9:e249:ce2c] has joined #debian
22:41-!-galex-713 is "Alexandre Garreau" on #debian-kde #debian
22:47-!-tobi [~tobi@p54BB6B5B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:51-!-galex-713_ [~galex-713@37.170.9.71] has joined #debian
22:51-!-galex-713_ is "Alexandre Garreau" on #debian-kde #debian
22:53-!-f10 [~flo@ip5b40034f.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:54-!-galex-713 [~galex-713@2a01:e0a:54:cb90:a8d:eeb9:e249:ce2c] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:58-!-manx [~cada@185.143.40.140] has joined #debian
22:58-!-manx is "..." on #debian
22:58<manx>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8qL6cAI0zQ
22:59-!-manx [~cada@185.143.40.140] has quit []
22:59-!-aswin [~aswin@cpe-76-167-68-24.natsow.res.rr.com] has joined #debian
22:59-!-aswin is "aswin" on #debian
23:03-!-aswin [~aswin@cpe-76-167-68-24.natsow.res.rr.com] has quit []
23:09-!-ach [~spooky@ip-109-43-0-74.web.vodafone.de] has joined #debian
23:09-!-ach is "KVIrc 4.9.2 Aria http://kvirc.net/" on #debian
23:10-!-iflema [~ian@203-217-35-167.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #debian
23:10-!-iflema is "ian" on #debian #slackware
23:17-!-galex-713 [~galex-713@2a01:e0a:54:cb90:492:8ee4:e5ae:38de] has joined #debian
23:17-!-galex-713 is "Alexandre Garreau" on #debian-kde #debian
23:21-!-galex-713_ [~galex-713@37.170.9.71] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:22-!-lucascastro [~lucas@201.182.221.14] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:29-!-f10 [~flo@ip5b40034f.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined #debian
23:29-!-f10 is "f10" on #debian-kde #debian
23:32-!-ol [~quassel@2406:e006:fb7:1:8e89:a5ff:feca:57fe] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:45-!-dvs [~hibbard@00012127.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:47-!-tomg [~tomg@98-159-244-127.agas1a-dynamic.dsl.sentex.ca] has joined #debian
23:47-!-tomg is "*Unknown*" on #moocows #debian-offtopic @#debian-support #debian-next #debian
23:50-!-finlstrm [~quassel@ip70-188-141-213.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #debian
23:50-!-finlstrm is "Michael J. Ford" on #debian-mentors #debian #debian-next #debian-offtopic #packaging
23:53-!-finlstrm_ [~quassel@ip70-188-141-213.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:55-!-shrayz [~hax0r8@59.91.151.84] has joined #debian
23:55-!-shrayz is "hax0r" on #tor #debian
23:57-!-shrayz [~hax0r8@59.91.151.84] has quit []
23:57-!-ol [~quassel@2406:e006:fb7:1:8e89:a5ff:feca:57fe] has joined #debian
23:57-!-ol is "Ol" on #debian
---Logclosed Mon Dec 11 00:00:00 2017