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#debian IRC Logs for 2017-12-11

---Logopened Mon Dec 11 00:00:00 2017
00:03-!-rbalint_ [~rbalint@BC06E570.dsl.pool.telekom.hu] has joined #debian
00:03-!-rbalint_ is "Balint Reczey" on #debian-ftp #debian
00:05-!-rbalint [~rbalint@54029EEA.dsl.pool.telekom.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:05-!-rbalint_ is now known as rbalint
00:28-!-f10 [~flo@ip5b40034f.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:31-!-Q-Master^Work [~q-master@217.175.38.170] has joined #debian
00:31-!-Q-Master^Work is "Vladimir Berezenko" on #debian #debianppc #debian-next
00:33-!-hascable [~rien@5ED72365.cm-7-8a.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:36-!-towo^work [~towo@00012f0f.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
00:36-!-towo^work is "Torsten -towo- Wohlfarth" on #kernelnewbies #siduction-dev #siduction-de #siduction #debian-offtopic #debian-next #debian #aptosid
00:41-!-apo [~apo@linuxiuvat.de] has quit [Quit: http://linuxiuvat.de]
00:41-!-apo [~apo@linuxiuvat.de] has joined #debian
00:41-!-apo is "Markus Koschany" on #debian-qa #debian #debian-mobile #debian-mentors #debian-lts #debian-games #debian-java
00:44-!-j_f-f [~quassel@rs-7.jff-webhosting.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:49-!-jm_ [flier@000125af.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
00:49-!-jm_ is "." on #debian #debian-ops
00:51-!-j_f-f [~quassel@rs-7.jff-webhosting.net] has joined #debian
00:51-!-j_f-f is "J\xF6rg Frings-F\xFCrst" on #debian-bugs #debian-mentors #debian-systemd #debian-reproducible #debian #debian-www #debian-voip #debian-kbsd #debian-gnome #debian-ubuntu #debian-qa #alioth #multiarch #debian-hurd #debian-games
00:53-!-pavlushka [~pavlushka@00021abb.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
00:53-!-pavlushka is "pavlushka" on #linode #debian #oftc
00:53-!-pavlushka [~pavlushka@00021abb.user.oftc.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded]
00:54-!-pavlushka is "pavlushka" on #linode #debian #oftc
00:54-!-pavlushka [~pavlushka@00021abb.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
01:00-!-sqirrrl [~quassel@p57B8A681.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #debian
01:00-!-sqirrrl is "Mirko Ahnert" on #debian
01:02-!-ol [~quassel@2406:e006:fb7:1:8e89:a5ff:feca:57fe] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:03-!-alanz [~smuxi@165.255.216.208] has joined #debian
01:03-!-alanz is "Your Name" on #debian #smuxi
01:04-!-Texou [~Texou@000178ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:10-!-kowalski_g [~kowalski_@reefnet.gigatest.pl] has joined #debian
01:10-!-kowalski_g is "Gabriel Kowalski" on #debian
01:11-!-ojhara [~ojhara@200.109.230.142] has joined #debian
01:11-!-ojhara is "realname" on #debian
01:12<ojhara>HELLO
01:12-!-ojhara [~ojhara@200.109.230.142] has quit []
01:21-!-hyperreal [~hyperreal@0001f8c6.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.6.5+deb1 - http://znc.in]
01:25-!-kowalski_g [~kowalski_@reefnet.gigatest.pl] has quit [Quit: kowalski_g]
01:26-!-mathieu[fr] [~mathieu@nie67-1-78-226-109-145.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #debian
01:26-!-mathieu[fr] is "Blum Mathieu" on #debian-fr #debian-kde #debian
01:26-!-kowalski_g [~kowalski_@2001:67c:710:2:a269:5d44:1eb7:43a2] has joined #debian
01:26-!-kowalski_g is "Gabriel Kowalski" on #debian
01:31-!-verm1n [~verm1n@pool-173-48-97-181.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:33-!-ykrons_ [~ykrons@2a02-8434-2b23-fa01-40e5-9839-fd31-80b5.rev.sfr.net] has joined #debian
01:33-!-ykrons_ is "snorky" on #multiarch #mtd #kernelnewbies #debian-fr #debian
01:34-!-devbaka_ [~devbaka@p5B2235DD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
01:34-!-DoctorCorto [~ronald@87-58-101-88-dynamic.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #debian
01:34-!-DoctorCorto is "purple" on #debian #debian-clamav
01:35-!-cpaelzer_ is now known as cpaelzer
01:35-!-sidmo_ [~ilven@p5B3D8BC7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
01:36-!-mathieu[fr] [~mathieu@nie67-1-78-226-109-145.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
01:37-!-shrayz [~hax0r8@59.91.151.84] has joined #debian
01:37-!-shrayz is "hax0r" on #tor #debian
01:37-!-shrayz [~hax0r8@59.91.151.84] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded]
01:37-!-shrayz is "hax0r" on #tor #debian
01:37-!-shrayz [~hax0r8@59.91.151.84] has joined #debian
01:38-!-sidmo [~ilven@p5B3D8BC7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #debian
01:38-!-sidmo is "sidmo" on #debian-systemd #debian-next #debian-offtopic #debian-kde #debian
01:40-!-verm1n [~verm1n@pool-173-48-97-181.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #debian
01:40-!-verm1n is "Krassavella" on #kernelnewbies #qemu #debian #virt #suckless #bitlbee
01:40-!-jucaroba [~quassel@static-153-155-225-77.ipcom.comunitel.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
01:42-!-Yst [~Yst@0001fe93.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
01:42-!-Yst is "Yst Dawson" on #tor #debian
01:42-!-jucaroba [~quassel@static-153-155-225-77.ipcom.comunitel.net] has joined #debian
01:42-!-jucaroba is "Ju Ca Ro Ba,,," on #debian-mentors #debian #debian-multimedia #debian-kde #packaging
01:46-!-shrayz [~hax0r8@59.91.151.84] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
01:47-!-ykrons_ [~ykrons@2a02-8434-2b23-fa01-40e5-9839-fd31-80b5.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:56-!-yohnnyjoe [~yohnnyjoe@c-73-129-2-10.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:00-!-devbaka [~devbaka@81.14.168.152] has joined #debian
02:00-!-devbaka is "realname" on #debian-gnome #debian-games #debian
02:01-!-ykrons_ [~ykrons@2a02-8434-2b23-fa01-40e5-9839-fd31-80b5.rev.sfr.net] has joined #debian
02:01-!-ykrons_ is "snorky" on #multiarch #mtd #kernelnewbies #debian-fr #debian
02:01-!-SKYRAN [~SKYRAN@188.210.124.1] has joined #debian
02:01-!-SKYRAN is "SKYRAN" on #debian-boinc #debian-amd64 #debian #debian-in #alioth #debian-fa #debian-i18n
02:01-!-ed_ [~ed@ip72-192-24-150.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #debian
02:01-!-ed_ is "Ed Hamilton" on #debian-next #debian-ftp #debian-cd #debian-kde #debian
02:03-!-marcus [~marcus@gatekeeper.primekey.se] has joined #debian
02:03-!-marcus is "Marcus Lundblad" on #debian #debian-gnome
02:05-!-SKYRAN_ [~SKYRAN@2.177.97.161] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:10-!-ykrons_ [~ykrons@2a02-8434-2b23-fa01-40e5-9839-fd31-80b5.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:18-!-leatherf1 [~julien@80.215.236.164] has joined #debian
02:18-!-leatherf1 is "julien" on #debian #debian-fr
02:18-!-Theroxat [~quassel@212.147.9.97] has joined #debian
02:18-!-Theroxat is "Theroxat" on #debian #debian-fr
02:20-!-acald3ron [~acald3ron@189.202.79.26.cable.dyn.cableonline.com.mx] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
02:25-!-dallas [~dallas@2001:5b0:2d1b:4f30:30eb:6bf4:81c6:8d01] has joined #debian
02:25-!-dallas is "Dallas" on #debian
02:26-!-dallas [~dallas@2001:5b0:2d1b:4f30:30eb:6bf4:81c6:8d01] has quit []
02:28-!-ed_ [~ed@ip72-192-24-150.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:30-!-vlad1777d [~vlad@91.243.206.27] has joined #debian
02:30-!-vlad1777d is "realname" on #debian #debian-next #debian-cinnamon #debian-hurd
02:36-!-pi_ [~pi@bb1.gpe.92-49-97-203.adsl.only.fr] has joined #debian
02:36-!-pi_ is "pi" on #debian
02:39-!-macgyvernt [~macgyver@109241138087.naklo.vectranet.pl] has joined #debian
02:39-!-macgyvernt is "Kamil Sadowski" on #debian
02:43-!-hascable [~rien@5ED72365.cm-7-8a.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #debian
02:43-!-hascable is "Unknown" on #debian #@work
02:43-!-pi__ [~pi@bb1.gpe.92-49-103-115.adsl.only.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:44-!-shrayz [~hax0r8@59.91.151.84] has joined #debian
02:44-!-shrayz is "hax0r" on #tor #debian
02:46-!-Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has joined #debian
02:46-!-Haudegen is "AP,,," on #debian-next #debian #debian-kde
02:46-!-sqirrrl [~quassel@p57B8A681.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
02:46-!-csotelo [~csotelo@179.7.41.124] has joined #debian
02:46-!-csotelo is "realname" on #debian-es #debian
02:47-!-shrayz [~hax0r8@59.91.151.84] has quit []
02:48-!-f10__ [~flo@ip5b40034f.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:48-!-Awal_ [~Awal@lnsm2-montrealdj-142-116-219-225.internet.virginmobile.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
02:49-!-Awal_ [~Awal@lnsm2-montrealdj-142-116-219-225.internet.virginmobile.ca] has joined #debian
02:49-!-Awal_ is "realname" on #debian #debian-next #debian-es #debian-offtopic
02:51-!-Gromit [~jpalic@188-95-15-200.adviqo.com] has joined #debian
02:51-!-Gromit is "Jan-Hendrik Palic" on #debian
02:53-!-leatherf1 [~julien@80.215.236.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:56-!-delx [~delx@59.167.161.142] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
02:56-!-macgyvernt [~macgyver@109241138087.naklo.vectranet.pl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
02:57-!-Infra_3600 [~rdanilov@80.250.173.139] has quit [Quit: I Quit]
02:58-!-delx [~delx@59.167.161.142] has joined #debian
02:58-!-delx is "delx" on #debian
03:00-!-narcan [~narcan@176-57-33-240.as16211.net] has joined #debian
03:00-!-narcan is "Denis Briand" on #debian-localgroups #debian-mentors #debian-next #debian-offtopic #debian-france #debian
03:00-!-farsight [~farsight@182.149.163.5] has joined #debian
03:00-!-farsight is "ubuntu" on #debian
03:01-!-farsight [~farsight@182.149.163.5] has quit []
03:01-!-farsight [~farsight@182.149.163.5] has joined #debian
03:01-!-farsight is "ubuntu" on #debian
03:02-!-farsight123 [~farsight@182.149.163.5] has joined #debian
03:02-!-farsight123 is "ubuntu" on #debian
03:03-!-farsight123 [~farsight@182.149.163.5] has quit []
03:06-!-Texou [~Texou@000178ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
03:06-!-Texou is "Jean-Philippe MENGUAL" on #debian #debian-es #debian-it #debian-devel-es #debian-devel-it #debian-mate #debian-l10n-fr #nvda #brltty #debian-a11y
03:08-!-mejo [~mejo@0000fd61.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
03:08-!-mejo is "Jonas Meurer" on #debian #debian-ftp
03:08-!-kenoby [~kenoby@host248-224-dynamic.60-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
03:10-!-ansel [~ansel@tmo-123-54.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #debian
03:10-!-ansel is "Andreas Seltenreich" on #debian
03:11-!-kenoby [~kenoby@host248-224-dynamic.60-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #debian
03:11-!-kenoby is "realname" on #debian-next #debian
03:11-!-kenoby [~kenoby@host248-224-dynamic.60-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
03:13-!-kenoby [~kenoby@host248-224-dynamic.60-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #debian
03:13-!-kenoby is "realname" on #debian-next #debian
03:19-!-edeak [~edeak@196.210.115.89.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #debian
03:19-!-edeak is "realname" on #debian #suckless
03:21-!-farsight [~farsight@182.149.163.5] has quit [Quit: 离开]
03:22-!-vince [~vince@ARennes-658-1-232-169.w2-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #debian
03:22-!-vince is "vince" on #debian
03:23-!-Infra_3600 [~rdanilov@80.250.173.139] has joined #debian
03:23-!-Infra_3600 is "Roman Danilov" on #koha #debian #archlinux
03:23-!-vince [~vince@ARennes-658-1-232-169.w2-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit []
03:24-!-efraim [~quassel@2a03:b0c0:2:d0::48:d001] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
03:25-!-efraim [~quassel@2a03:b0c0:2:d0::48:d001] has joined #debian
03:25-!-efraim is "Efraim Flashner" on #debian-arm #debian #debian-x32
03:25-!-skitt [~skitt@skitt.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
03:25-!-skitt is "Stephen Kitt" on #debian #debian-ftp
03:25-!-kenoby [~kenoby@host248-224-dynamic.60-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
03:30-!-illwieckz [~illwieckz@AToulon-256-1-173-49.w83-113.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:33-!-leatherf1 [~julien@89.87.189.250] has joined #debian
03:33-!-leatherf1 is "julien" on #debian #debian-fr
03:33-!-_4ls [~lsi@000201b3.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:38-!-illwieckz [~illwieckz@AToulon-256-1-155-247.w83-113.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #debian
03:38-!-illwieckz is "Thomas Debesse" on #debian #debian-bugs #debianfr
03:43-!-mejo [~mejo@0000fd61.user.oftc.net] has left #debian []
03:45-!-petervbeck [~peterbeck@mail.datentraeger.li] has joined #debian
03:45-!-petervbeck is "Peter V. Beck" on #packaging #debian
03:50-!-yohnnyjoe [~yohnnyjoe@c-73-129-2-10.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #debian
03:50-!-yohnnyjoe is "yohnnyjoe" on #debian
03:53-!-jmux [~jmux@194.113.41.246] has joined #debian
03:53-!-jmux is "Jan-Marek Glogowski" on #debian
03:54-!-Herr [~Alf@p200300C04BCF4D00626720FFFE413270.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #debian
03:54-!-Herr is "realname" on #debian #debian-edu #skolelinux.de #osm-de #debian-systemd
03:56-!-ach [~spooky@ip-109-43-0-74.web.vodafone.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
03:56-!-ach [~spooky@ip-109-43-0-74.web.vodafone.de] has joined #debian
03:56-!-ach is "KVIrc 4.9.2 Aria http://kvirc.net/" on #debian
03:58-!-gabriel1 [~gabriel1@host187-144-dynamic.33-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #debian
03:58-!-gabriel1 is "Gab" on #ubuntu #tor #debian-it #debian
03:58-!-yohnnyjoe [~yohnnyjoe@c-73-129-2-10.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:58-!-duclicsic [~duclicsic@00018868.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:59-!-ansel [~ansel@tmo-123-54.customers.d1-online.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:59-!-nowhere_man [~pierre@00012946.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:00-!-err404 [~err404@88.190.91.91] has joined #debian
04:00-!-err404 is "realname" on #debian-fr #debian #debian-boot
04:00-!-nowhere_man [~pierre@00012946.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
04:00-!-nowhere_man is "Pierre Thierry" on @#concatenative @#emacs #git @#erights #lisp #debian-kde #debian
04:01-!-Theroxat [~quassel@212.147.9.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:01-!-smhar [~salman@178.132.47.27] has joined #debian
04:01-!-smhar is "realname" on #debian
04:01-!-smhar [~salman@178.132.47.27] has quit []
04:02-!-farsight [~farsight@182.149.163.5] has joined #debian
04:02-!-farsight is "ubuntu" on #debian
04:03<farsight>huhj
04:03-!-farsight [~farsight@182.149.163.5] has quit []
04:03-!-Ondrejg [~oftc-webi@UFP7229.ipp.cas.cz] has joined #debian
04:03-!-Ondrejg is "OFTC WebIRC Client" on #debian
04:06<Ondrejg>Hi, after upgrade to 9.3 my Intel integrated Graphics on Broadwell cpu makes the screen "run away to the left like swiping" quasi periodically from time to time
04:07<Ondrejg>Any ideas what to do? This is the modesetting driver, not the intel one
04:08-!-Edhil [~edhil@000266d3.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
04:08-!-Edhil is "One of the last" on #debian-welcome #debian-fr #debian
04:09-!-ansel [~ansel@2003:5b:203b:100:6af7:28ff:fe06:801] has joined #debian
04:09-!-ansel is "Andreas Seltenreich" on #debian
04:14-!-bluca [~bluca@2a00:23c5:bef3:400:9531:588b:44ae:bec4] has joined #debian
04:14-!-bluca is "purple" on #debian-efi #debian-next #debian-ftp #debian
04:15-!-Drzacek [~Drzacek@b941c009.business.dg-w.de] has joined #debian
04:15-!-Drzacek is "realname" on #debian #debian-next
04:16-!-kenoby [~kenoby@host248-224-dynamic.60-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #debian
04:16-!-kenoby is "realname" on #debian-next #debian
04:17-!-Perry [~user@195.223.196.102] has joined #debian
04:17-!-Perry is "realname" on #debian
04:22-!-pamaury [~pamaury@185.55.246.149] has joined #debian
04:22-!-pamaury is "Amaury Pouly" on #oftc #debian-kde #debian #debian-next
04:22-!-gabriel1 [~gabriel1@host187-144-dynamic.33-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:22-!-ao2 [~ao2@host86-73-dynamic.61-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #debian
04:22-!-ao2 is "ao2" on #debian #cell
04:27-!-nowhere_man [~pierre@00012946.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:28-!-nowhere_man [~pierre@00012946.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
04:28-!-nowhere_man is "Pierre Thierry" on @#concatenative #emacs #git @#erights #lisp #debian-kde #debian
04:28-!-dreamlinux-user [~guest@p5B3A70C6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #debian
04:28-!-dreamlinux-user is "guest" on #debian
04:30-!-Ondrejg [~oftc-webi@UFP7229.ipp.cas.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
04:31-!-gabriel1 [~gabriel1@kite.riseup.net] has joined #debian
04:31-!-gabriel1 is "Gab" on #debian #debian-it #tor #ubuntu
04:32-!-smrut [~Krzysiek@155.133.70.63] has joined #debian
04:32-!-smrut is "Krzysiek" on #debian
04:32-!-norek [~norbertch@155.133.70.63] has joined #debian
04:32-!-norek is "NorbertCh" on #debian
04:32-!-norek is now known as Guest151
04:33-!-Guest151 [~norbertch@155.133.70.63] has quit []
04:33-!-smrut [~Krzysiek@155.133.70.63] has quit []
04:37-!-wavekidsjp [~wavekidsj@h219-110-18-091.catv02.itscom.jp] has joined #debian
04:37-!-wavekidsjp is "wavekidsjp" on #debian
04:38-!-Perry [~user@195.223.196.102] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
04:39-!-sjzurek [~sjzurek@cpc1-scun8-2-0-cust985.12-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #debian
04:39-!-sjzurek is "sjzurek" on #debian #debian-next
04:39-!-DennisTheTiger [~dennisthe@c-67-170-83-25.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:39-!-czesmir [~stefan@dbc212.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #debian
04:39-!-czesmir is "Stefan" on #debian
04:42-!-DennisTheTiger [~dennisthe@c-67-170-83-25.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #debian
04:42-!-DennisTheTiger is "realname" on #debian #debian-offtopic
04:43-!-shrayz [~hax0r8@59.91.151.84] has joined #debian
04:43-!-shrayz is "hax0r" on #tor #debian
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05:22<Jonny>Help. I installed a experimental window manager (Xfwm4) package, did xfwm4 --replace, then i delete sessions or something. Now i can't login, it says failsafe session could not load. How do i reinstall xfce?
05:23<Jonny>would reinstalling xfce even help?
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05:25<somiaj>Jonny: it could be you need to reset all the user settings in $HOME. You could say create a new user and see if it works.
05:25<somiaj>Jonny: also which version of debian are you running?
05:25<Jonny>Hi somia, thanks for your help, i am using Debian 9.2
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05:26<Jonny>Would creating a new user reset user settings in $home?
05:26<somiaj>Jonny: so you installed a pacakge from debian experemintal on debian 9.2?
05:26<Jonny>yeah
05:26<Jonny>:S
05:26<somiaj>Jonny: creating a new user, will allow you to test a clean user, you would have to remove all the config files in $HOME for your current user.
05:26<DavePage>You are lucky that it's merely broken as badly as it has ;)
05:26<Jonny>I followed a youtube video to fix screen tearing and basically it ruined me
05:27<somiaj>Jonny: That is not something you want to do........
05:27<somiaj>!don't break debian
05:27<dpkg>dont break debian is probably https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian
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05:27<Jonny>hehe thanks guys
05:27<somiaj>Jonny: anyways, you could try to figure out each and every package you have on your system that is not from streatch and manually downgrade them tot he stretch version, but we don't support mixign like that. It can do lots of harm.
05:28<Jonny>Ok somiaj, would you reckon a fresh install of Debian 9.2 would be better?
05:28<Jonny>or would removing all config files from current user or new user suffice?
05:28<Jonny>thanks btw
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05:29<somiaj>Jonny: I would either 1) fresh install, or 2) downgrade all packages you upgraded and ensure that your system only has packages from stretch 9.2 installed. Then I would worry about getting xfce to work by either a new user, or deleteing all the xfce config files in $HOME
05:29<somiaj>fresh install maybe the easiest, it really depends on how much damange you did installing that experimental package.
05:30<DavePage>Fresh install will probably save you pain in future that you don't want to have to deal with
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05:30<Jonny>Good food for thought thanks alot. I installed the experimental package alongside the stable one :S
05:30<Jonny>true davepage
05:30<Jonny>is backport ok to use?
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05:31<Jonny>it has a package that is the only fix for my GPU resolution.
05:31<Jonny>I will fresh install my Debian 9.2 then guys. Thanks! :)
05:31<somiaj>Jonny: yes, a backport is newer software compiled to run in stretch. The issue is not the software, but that the binary package from experiementail is compiled to work with libaries form sid.
05:31<Jonny>Ah i see somiaj ! thanks.
05:31<Jonny>interesting
05:31<somiaj>in essence, you don't want to install a binary package from a release different than stretch, but you can install one from stretch-backports, or attempt to make your own backport.
05:32<Jonny>Now i know. very helpful.
05:32<Jonny>I will come to IRC for help and not youtube in the future too!
05:32<Jonny>its twice youtube has had me reinstall Debian
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05:33<somiaj>Jonny: yea, there are lots of people who mix things and it works, but then it bites someone else. We try to give good advise here.
05:33<somiaj>you should read that don't break debian wiki page
05:33<somiaj>!don't break debian
05:33<dpkg>it has been said that dont break debian is https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian
05:33<Jonny>Ah i will most certainly read that. cheers.
05:34<Jonny>somiaj how would i fix screen tearing on Debian 9.2 using the Debian way? So when i reinstall Debian 9.2 i can resolve that.
05:34<Jonny>I am using a GTX 950 nvidia (maxwell)
05:34<Jonny>because thats why i watched the youtube video because of screen tearing.
05:35<somiaj>were you using the nouveau drivers or the nvidia-nonfree drivers?
05:35<Jonny>Nouveau drivers.
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05:36<Jonny>I was too worried that nvidia-nonfree would have telemetry ad tracking in it
05:36<somiaj>I personally use the non-free nvidia drivers on my systems.
05:36<Jonny>like it does in Windows
05:36<somiaj>I would have tried those first.
05:36<Jonny>I'd imagine that would fix the screen tearing
05:36<Jonny>I just wish there was a fix for it with nouveau.
05:37<somiaj>I'm usnreu about any telemetnary add tracking, but I don't get any adds or issues from using nvidia drivers here wuith my gtx 780 here.
05:37*DavePage uses his onboard Intel chipset for normal use, and the nonfree nvidia drivers with primusrun/bumblebee for gaming
05:37<somiaj>Jonny: I guess I should double check that this isn't an optimus system.
05:37<Jonny>optimus system? what is that.
05:38<Jonny>thanks dave
05:39<Jonny>ooo 9.3 is out.
05:39<Jonny>A good time to install Debian from fresh i guess hehe.
05:39<somiaj>Jonny: what DavePage was talking about. Laptops that mix intel drivers and nvidia, intel for 2d experience and nvidia for 3d, supose to save on battery and the likes so you are only using the nvidia card when you are using 3d apps.
05:40<Jonny>Yeah that is very good setup. Energy saving and better for the enviroment too.
05:41<DavePage>somiaj: But it also isolates you from the proprietary drivers to some extent, as you're not running "normal" apps on them.
05:41<somiaj>Jonny: but the linux support for it is a pain. It is getting better, but still I avoid such hardware on linux.
05:41<Jonny>Yeah.
05:41<Jonny>Yeah i wish i had a ATI card.
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05:42<Jonny>i hear it has better support because ATI work well with the Linux debs
05:42<Jonny>devs
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05:43<Jonny>How do you go from Debian 9.2 to 9.3 ? is that a simple apt upgrade command?
05:44<DavePage>Yeah
05:44<DavePage>Oops
05:44<DavePage>yeah
05:44<Jonny>Ah ok.
05:44<Jonny>I might as well for this reinstall , make my USB a bootable Debian 9.3 :P
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05:45<Jonny>Does 9.3 bring any interesting updates?
05:45<DavePage>Mostly bug fixes
05:45<somiaj>Jonny: yup.
05:46<DavePage>https://www.debian.org/News/2017/2017120902
05:46<somiaj>!point release
05:46<dpkg>Point releases are updates to <stable> and <oldstable>, fixing security and grave bug fixes. There are no point releases for Debian 9 "Stretch" yet. You can upgrade to the latest point release by referencing a Debian <mirror> in /etc/apt/sources.list, then "apt update && apt full-upgrade". See <8.8>. http://wiki.debian.org/DebianReleases/PointReleases.
05:46<Jonny>Ah ok thanks guys
05:46<somiaj>Jonny: that is all the difference between 9.2 and 9.3 is. Mostly putting all the security updates into the offical system, plus some bug fixes.
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05:46<DavePage>Basically speaking, once a Debian stable release is released, the only things that change are security fixes and serious bugs.
05:47<somiaj>so no real new features, mostly bug and security issues, thought he newer kernels sometimes backport support for newer hardare.
05:47<somiaj>DavePage: I would correct that by saying, once debian testing is frozen.
05:47<Jonny>Ah ok interesting.
05:47<somiaj>between the freeze and the release is only bug fixes too.
05:48<Jonny>I am looking if the release mentions screen tearing or nouveau updates lol.
05:48<DavePage>somiaj: Yeah, I was talking specifically about stable releases. There are also freezes in testing ahead of a release :)
05:48<Jonny>http://ftp.debian.org/debian/dists/stretch/ChangeLog
05:48<Jonny>the above link is a more extensive changelog of 9.3
05:49<somiaj>well changes stop happeing at the freeze, which then turns into the release.
05:49<somiaj>Jonny: most likely not. A backported kernel may help.
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05:50<Jonny>Ah i shall have a look at backported kernels then
05:51<somiaj>I think 4.13 is available, and that may contain some fixes in nouveau for newer nvidia hardawre.
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05:52<Jonny>Oh yeah 4.13 i installed that firmware-misc package and it fixed my resolution.
05:52<jm_>also. maybe try the nvidia driver if nouveau does not work
05:52<somiaj>though the version of the non-free nvidia blob in stretch most likely dosen't have the add stuff you are talking about (just did some research on it). It may make it to the linux blob, though unsure how it would give me adds.
05:52<Jonny>thanks jm
05:53<Jonny>somiaj i read that telemetry is in the driver. I will try find a link
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05:54<somiaj>Jonny: I found various places that say they are unsure if it has made it to the linux blob. Also the stretch nvidia blob is frozen, so its an older version. Due to the age of the blob is why I said it most likely isn't in stretch, and unsure if it will make it to the nvidia blob (though unsure how nvidia would give me adds via the blob, it could still collect non-personal info as per the license agreement)
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05:54<somiaj>Jonny: note, I'm not trying to suggest it, it just seems your hardware might work better with it, because unforntaully nouveau sometimes takes a while to fully work with newer nvidia cards.
05:55<Jonny>Exactly somiaj. Its not so much adds its more data collection.
05:55<Jonny>They could be collecting hardware profile data to sell to hardware firms?
05:56<Jonny>but you may be right concerning old drivers
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05:56<Jonny>telemetry may be a newer thing in newer drivers
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06:05<Jonny>somiaj: whats the best desktop enviroment? I was using Xfce.
06:05<somiaj>!best
06:05<dpkg>Best for what? Please define what you mean by "best". Gloria Gaynor! Tina Turner! Aretha Franklin! Men without Hats! Women without Hats! Men at Work! Women at Play! Anyone for Tennis!
06:05<somiaj>Jonny: use what you like and suits your needs. I use a wm myself, I think all desktop enviroments are bad.
06:05<Jonny>Most customisable GUI
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06:05<Jonny>lol interesting
06:06<somiaj>Jonny: I think fvwm is the most customiazable gui, but you have to configure it with a config file, mine is about 1000 lines long
06:06<Jonny>ah ok thanks. Nice!
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06:06<DavePage>KDE is nice and pointy-clicky and customisable.
06:06<somiaj>again depends on what you like and want. If xfce suits your needs, stick with it. Though feel free to try other things.
06:07<Jonny>Thanks Dave.
06:07<Jonny>I guess if i am familiar with Xfce i should stick with it.
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06:09<somiaj>the only real issue with installing multiple wms/des is disk space, so you can try alterantives to see if you like them better.
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06:12<Jonny>True somiaj
06:13<Jonny>ill have a look
06:15<Jonny>the last release of Xfce was feb 2015. Ouch.
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06:23<Jonny>the debian installer includes Xfce as an option though it won't be Xfce 4.13.1 how can i install that version?
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06:25<DavePage>Jonny: https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian#Don.27t_suffer_from_Shiny_New_Stuff_Syndrome
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06:26<Jonny>Haha i was thinking of that myself! except 4.13.1 offers no screen tearing. I guess i will just install compton with the stable Xfce
06:27<Jonny>I guess not stable version would be ... unstable? lol
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06:48<seawolf57>just commenting that in my experience both the Cinnamon and the GNOME versions of Debian 9.3 alpha 2 work great on my old Dell laptop
06:49<seawolf57>the code name is Buster
06:49<DavePage>seawolf57: that's not Debian 9.3 alpha 2. Buster is Debian Testing.
06:50<DavePage>It's Debian 10 alpha 2, and it's in flux.
06:50<seawolf57>well just saying both the Cinnamon and the GNOME varieties work fine on my old Dell PC
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06:51<seawolf57>thanks for correcting my head Dave lol
06:52<kblin>hi folks
06:53<Jonny>hi kblin
06:54<kblin>I'm having some "fun" with java on a stretch docker image. I'm getting an "Error: Could not find or load main class", unless I run as root
06:54<kblin>this is with the default-jre-headless package installed
06:54<kblin>on a jessie container with the same setup, this used to work
06:54<Jonny>Hopefully someone who knows will respond. I don't i'm afraid.
06:55<kblin>of course in jessie, that was openjdk7, and stretch has openjdk8
06:55<DavePage>kblin: Is the Java file readable by the non-root user?
06:55<DavePage>(and all parent directories etc.)
06:56<kblin>it should be, but let me check
06:56<kblin>I can 'stat' it just fine
06:57<DavePage>kblin: Can you "head" it?
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06:58<kblin>DavePage: jar files are binaries, but stat tells me the file has 664 access rights
06:58<kblin>but yes, I can head it and screw up my terminal :)
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07:00<DavePage>OK :)
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07:01<Jonny>Cya folks have a good day.
07:01<kblin>as root, java seems to create some user preferences directory
07:01<kblin>that's not happening as non-root
07:02<kblin>so I assume the problem might be related to that
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07:02<kblin>but I don't even know how to debug this
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07:03<kblin>the fun thing is that it works just fine as a regular user on a bare metal install of Debian
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07:04<jm_>tried to strace it?
07:04<kblin>let me re-roll the container with strace
07:04<jm_>I was thinking just trying to start the java app, not the whole thing
07:04<DavePage>kblin: I assume you're checking that you can read the jar from inside the container enviornment?
07:04<DavePage>I don't know much about docker mind
07:04<kblin>DavePage: yes, of course
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07:05<kblin>jm_: yeah, just need to get strace onto the thing
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07:05<jm_>ahh that's what the comment meant :P
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07:06<Guest159>on my Dell Inspiron 15 after installing Buster, the Synaptic Package Manager will not open
07:06<jm_>try #debian-next if you're using testing
07:07<Guest159>you mean get the next version, not the testing version?
07:07<kblin>hm, apparently I'm not allowed to strace inside a docker container
07:07<Guest159>ok thanks
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07:08<jm_>no I mean... bleh
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07:09<blast007>kblin: sounds like you can run it with 'docker run --security-opt seccomp:unconfined' if you need to do that. https://blog.docker.com/2016/02/docker-engine-1-10-security/
07:10<kblin>blast007: yeah, just found that as well
07:10<jm_>maybe that also explains why java fails?
07:10<kblin>that works, and clearly java can open the file
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07:10<kblin>open("/antismash-dev/antismash/generic_modules/smcogs/TreeGraph.jar", O_RDONLY) = 3
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07:12<kblin>ok, let me check what the strace output looks like as root
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07:14<kblin>pretty much the same, on a syscall level
07:16<jm_>then I am also out of ideas
07:17<kblin>yeah, same here. :)
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07:17<kblin>oh well, I guess I'll backport a non-broken biopython to debian jessie for now, and then try to figure out what the heck is going on next year :)
07:18<DavePage>kblin: Try it in a Stretch VM, see if it's a docker problem rather than a Stretch problem?
07:19<kblin>DavePage: as I said, works on a bare metal setup
07:19<kblin>DavePage: I'll try a minimal VM, too. I do have some additional stuff on my laptop :)
07:19<DavePage>OK
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07:23<kblin>DavePage: ha, it works in the openjdk:8 docker image, that's also based on Debian stretch
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07:25<kblin>and apparently that just installs the openjdk package from the debian repos, and then some extra magic
07:25<kblin>go figure
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07:57<kblin>hm, ok, I'm begining to see the difference. it seems to work on a jar file I mount into the image, but not on a jar file that is ADDed to the image from the Dockerfile while building
07:58<kblin>why that is, I have no bloodly clue :)
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08:47<elsimpsoms>mmmm
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09:17<mikael>I just got a new laptop, a thinkpad X1 yoga and is unable to install debian via win32-loader.exe
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09:17<mikael>I get an error message for g2ldr
09:17<mikael>and error 0xc000007b
09:17<mikael>Do anyone have any pointers?
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09:24<bremner>is there something about that model on wiki.debian.org?
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09:29<kblin>aha! silly me, not using strace right..
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09:33<b17>Jobs in /etc/anacrontab never run, like cron.daily/weekly/mpnthly. I purged anacron and cron and reinstalled. I have a fluxbox setup that works fine and have been trying to compare the setup. Where else can I look?
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09:35<rodinson>Hi
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09:38<petervbeck>b17: I have similar issues with some cronjobs since the upgrade from Jessie to stretch.
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09:39<petervbeck>but I think mine are user issues, as other jobs still seem to run fine.
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09:40<b17>On the same laptop, same packages two different installations, one works the other doesn't
09:40<b17>freaky
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09:40<b17>one is a minimal fluxbox, one kde
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09:42<DanMiikkael_>is it possible to scroll a window that is too high to fit on the screen
09:42<DanMiikkael_>i need to press a button in the bottom of the window
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09:46<b17>DanMiikkael_: the best i have found is press enter, hope default is the right choice.
09:46<DanMiikkael_>nothing happens
09:46<b17>several dialogs in kde are too big for mys screen, what about maximizing it can you see then?
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09:48<b17>sometimes i have used an external monitor temporarily also
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09:51<DanMiikkael_>can't maximize, is GNOME
09:51<DanMiikkael_>and KeePass is the software that is producing these dialogs
09:51<DanMiikkael_>oh well
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10:00<b17>Noticed the date difference on /etc/anacrontab and copied the working one dated 12/28/2014 and it just ran my cron.daily
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10:01<kblin>DavePage: ah, problem between keyboard and chair. apparently the 'lib' folder my .jar file wanted to read some extra libraries from didn't have the right permissions, and java sucks at giving good error messages
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10:02<kblin>DavePage: and I didn't run strace with the right flags at first, so I missed the thread that was trying to read stuff from that folder
10:02<kblin>fixing the permissions on that directory sorted things out
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10:02<DavePage>kblin: \o/
10:03<blast007>what flags were needed?
10:04<kblin>blast007: -f, I just didn't realize you need it for clone() as well, I only knew I had to use it to follow fork()s
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10:05<kblin>of course if java just had said "failed to open /path/to/forbidden/directory/extra.jar", I'd have figured that out hours ago.. :)
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10:05<kblin>but then again, it's java.. :)
10:05<blast007>:)
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10:37<kblin>hm, ok, I just swapped the obvious error to a more subtle one
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10:40<kblin>but now the problem seems to be related to upstream using an undocucmented java API call that was removed in java8, so basically... meh
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10:41<kblin>hm, hang on
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10:41<kblin>it does still work on a real machine
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11:38<lavamind>help, my debian is broken https://share.riseup.net/#6lJCEY87u2Gl5ybbfN11qw
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11:39<DavePage>:'(
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11:50<olasd>the topic needs an update for 9.3 / 8.10
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11:50<iobound>and perhaps a warning that the 8.10 kernel panics on boot on multi-CPU amd64 machines - https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=883938
11:50<judd>Bug http://bugs.debian.org/883938 in src:linux (open): «linux-image-3.16.0-4-amd64: Kernel panic on boot after upgrading to debian 8.10 kernel 3.16.51»; severity: grave; opened: 2017-12-09; last modified: 2017-12-11.
11:53<olasd>ouch
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11:54<olasd>ah, multi-socket; that explains why my quad-core i3 booted properly
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12:08-!-sutula_ is "Bryan Sutula" on #ospo #fossology #debian
12:09-!-Theroxat [~quassel@178.197.235.80] has joined #debian
12:09-!-Theroxat is "Theroxat" on #debian #debian-fr
12:09-!-babache [~smuxi@37.170.122.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:10-!-Valvalion [~Valvalion@91.176.26.101] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:11-!-earthundead [~earthunde@91.239.69.162] has joined #debian
12:11-!-earthundead is "realname" on #debian
12:12-!-jhutchin1_wk [~jonathan@12.171.62.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:12-!-sutula [~sutula@207-118-156-253.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:14-!-amacater [~amacater@cpc78099-stav21-2-0-cust32.17-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #debian
12:14-!-amacater is "Andrew M.A. Cater" on #debian-hams #debian-arm #debian-cd #debian-efi #debian
12:15-!-nodiscc [~auto@0001cbb9.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
12:15-!-nodiscc is "purple" on #debian-next #debian #debian-fr
12:17-!-mathieu [~mathieu@nie67-1-78-226-109-145.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:18-!-jplejacq_ [~jplejacq@168.244.11.28] has joined #debian
12:18-!-jplejacq_ is "Jean Pierre LeJacq" on #debian-kde #debian
12:19-!-avalon [~avalon@alpha.mindvox.org] has joined #debian
12:19-!-avalon is "E Pluribus Unix" on #debian
12:22-!-tuxampol [~Mylin@2001:a61:4804:ee01:211:6bff:fe39:28f7] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:23-!-leatherf1 [~julien@89.87.189.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:27-!-Someonz [~Someonz@185.214.71.104] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
12:31-!-Edhil [~edhil@000266d3.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: One of the last]
12:32-!-jedix [~jedix@000103f6.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:32-!-lord_rob [~robert@82.99-136-217.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #debian
12:32-!-lord_rob is "Robert Derochette" on #debian-next #debian-kde #debian
12:34-!-petervbeck [~peterbeck@mail.datentraeger.li] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1]
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12:37-!-petervbeck [~peterbeck@mail.datentraeger.li] has joined #debian
12:37-!-petervbeck is "Peter V. Beck" on #packaging #debian
12:38-!-elsimpsoms [~quassel@host85.190-225-209.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:39-!-gabriel1_ [~gabriel1@host189-139-dynamic.35-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #debian
12:39-!-gabriel1_ is "Gab" on #debian #debian-it #tor #ubuntu
12:41-!-Nik05 [~Nik05@0001a8cd.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
12:41-!-Nik05 is "Nik05" on #debian-live #debian-boot #debian-mentors #debian-systemd #kernelnewbies #fai #gcc #debian-nl #debian-offtopic #debian #debian-next
12:42-!-gabriel1 [~gabriel1@host187-144-dynamic.33-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:44-!-jmlongo [~jmlongo@200.12.137.20] has joined #debian
12:44-!-jmlongo is "Martin Longo" on #debian-es #debian-kde #debian
12:46-!-earthundead [~earthunde@91.239.69.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:51-!-ansel [~ansel@2003:5b:203b:100:6af7:28ff:fe06:801] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:53-!-Texou [~Texou@000178ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:53-!-ao2__ [~ao2@host103-85-dynamic.53-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #debian
12:53-!-ao2__ is "ao2" on #cell #debian
12:54-!-tuv [~quassel@0000fd7f.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:55-!-manuelschneid3r [~manuelsch@p200300D863DD96FD368077712226BDFE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:56-!-tuv [~quassel@37.247.48.135] has joined #debian
12:56-!-tuv is "tuv" on #debian #debian-arm #debian-next
12:57-!-kenoby_ [~kenoby@host248-224-dynamic.60-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #debian
12:57-!-kenoby_ is "realname" on #debian-next #debian
12:58-!-ao2 [~ao2@host243-146-dynamic.23-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #debian
12:58-!-ao2 is "ao2" on #cell #debian
12:58-!-ao2_ [~ao2@host108-73-dynamic.51-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:02-!-Delta-One [~zero@2001:2002:51e2:7ba1:7a2:3351:ab86:6ea7] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:02-!-Delta-One [~zero@81-226-123-161-no35.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #debian
13:02-!-Delta-One is "Patrick Franz" on #debian-kde #debian #debian-next
13:03-!-kenoby_ [~kenoby@host248-224-dynamic.60-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
13:03-!-ao2__ [~ao2@host103-85-dynamic.53-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:04-!-manuelschneid3r [~manuelsch@p200300D863DD9652E6E805A8333BC59B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #debian
13:04-!-manuelschneid3r is "realname" on #gcc #debian
13:05-!-sutula_ is now known as sutula
13:05-!-c10wn5mk [~c10wn5mk@191.35.125.85] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
13:08-!-ao2 [~ao2@host243-146-dynamic.23-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
13:09-!-Oebele_ [~quassel@143.177.58.202] has joined #debian
13:09-!-Oebele_ is "Oebele" on #debian-next #debian
13:09-!-c10wn5mk [~c10wn5mk@191.35.125.85] has joined #debian
13:09-!-c10wn5mk is "c10wn5mk" on #debian
13:10-!-gabriel1_ [~gabriel1@host189-139-dynamic.35-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:15-!-ol [~quassel@2406:e006:fb7:1:8e89:a5ff:feca:57fe] has joined #debian
13:15-!-ol is "Ol" on #debian
13:19-!-yoha [~candle@84-75-108-27.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #debian
13:19-!-yoha is "yeha" on #debian
13:19-!-c10wn5mk [~c10wn5mk@191.35.125.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:20-!-gabriel1_ [~gabriel1@46.166.142.220] has joined #debian
13:20-!-gabriel1_ is "Gab" on #debian #debian-it #tor #ubuntu
13:21-!-mark [~mark@p5DD9BD86.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #debian
13:21-!-mark is "realname" on #debian
13:22-!-in1t3r [~LordShiva@in1t3r.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
13:22-!-in1t3r is "in1t3r" on #qemu #virt #debian-next #debian-mentors #debconf #tor #subgraph #useotr #tor-project #otr-dev #https-everywhere #cryptodotis #debian
13:22<mark>test
13:23-!-Theroxat [~quassel@178.197.235.80] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:23-!-mark [~mark@p5DD9BD86.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit []
13:24-!-orel [~orel@89-93-87-220.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1]
13:26-!-sdk [~sdk@modemcable126.158-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #debian
13:26-!-sdk is "Danny Colin" on #debian-welcome #debian-quebec #debian-offtopic #debian-localgroups #debian
13:26-!-KindOne_ [kindone@h205.135.16.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #debian
13:26-!-KindOne_ is "..." on #suckless #qemu #php #ovirt #osm #oftc #linuxfs #linode #libevent #https-everywhere #globaleaks #gentoo #gcc #g7 #freenode #debian-next #debian #debconf #ceph #bcache #awesome #utdlug
13:26-!-sdk is now known as Guest178
13:29-!-anon [~anon@2607:fea8:f200:1ed:719d:f591:70f0:44bd] has joined #debian
13:29-!-anon is "realname" on #debian
13:29-!-kritzefitz [~kritzefit@dslb-146-060-077-017.146.060.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined #debian
13:29-!-kritzefitz is "realname" on #debconf #debian-haskell #debian-next #debian
13:33-!-KindOne [kindone@kindone.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:33-!-KindOne_ is now known as KindOne
13:34-!-jmux [~jmux@194.113.41.246] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
13:37-!-hele_ [~hele@a88-115-23-39.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #debian
13:37-!-hele_ is "hele" on #debian-next #debian-kde #debian
13:37-!-ed_ [~ed@ip72-192-24-150.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:37-!-linuxmodder [~Corey84@wsip-184-178-51-54.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #debian
13:37-!-linuxmodder is "Corey Sheldon" on #cryptoparty #openstack #openbox #oftc #linux #kvm #irssi #ipv6 #https-everywhere #gcc #freenode #fosscar #fossology #ext4 #debian #Corsair #codesurfers #apparmor #smxi
13:40-!-herbmillerjr [~herbmille@50-248-67-123-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #debian
13:40-!-herbmillerjr is "realname" on #debian-xfce #debian-arm #debian
13:41-!-jplejacq__ [~jplejacq@168.244.11.23] has joined #debian
13:41-!-jplejacq__ is "Jean Pierre LeJacq" on #debian-kde #debian
13:46-!-devbaka [~devbaka@p5B2235DD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #debian
13:46-!-devbaka is "realname" on #debian-gnome #debian-games #debian
13:47-!-jplejacq_ [~jplejacq@168.244.11.28] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:48-!-in1t3r [~LordShiva@in1t3r.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:50-!-flaresec [~flaresec@109.166.134.156] has joined #debian
13:50-!-flaresec is "realname" on #debian
13:50<flaresec>let's eat some pasta
13:50<flaresec>boys
13:50-!-flaresec [~flaresec@109.166.134.156] has quit []
13:51-!-yohnnyjoe [~yohnnyjoe@c-73-129-2-10.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #debian
13:51-!-yohnnyjoe is "yohnnyjoe" on #debian
13:54-!-linuxmodder [~Corey84@wsip-184-178-51-54.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:54-!-adhawkins [~adhawkins@2001:470:1f1d:da2:249c:f1ff:fe03:fca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:56-!-adhawkins [~adhawkins@cpc81706-swin18-2-0-cust160.3-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #debian
13:56-!-adhawkins is "Andy Hawkins" on #debian-multimedia #debian
13:56-!-giaur [~quassel@public-gprs370010.centertel.pl] has joined #debian
13:56-!-giaur is "giaur" on #debian
13:58-!-jhutchin1_wk [~jonathan@12.171.62.202] has joined #debian
13:58-!-jhutchin1_wk is "Jonathan Hutchins" on #oftc #debian
13:58-!-Guest173 [~seawolf19@24.140.89.158] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
13:58-!-seawolf57 [~seawolf19@24.140.89.158] has joined #debian
13:58-!-seawolf57 is "realname" on #debian
13:59-!-yohnnyjoe [~yohnnyjoe@c-73-129-2-10.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:03-!-herbmillerjr [~herbmille@50-248-67-123-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:03-!-Texou [~Texou@000178ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
14:03-!-Texou is "Jean-Philippe MENGUAL" on #debian #debian-es #debian-it #debian-devel-es #debian-devel-it #debian-mate #debian-l10n-fr #nvda #brltty #debian-a11y
14:04-!-jhutchins_wk [~jonathan@12.171.62.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:04-!-gabriel1_ [~gabriel1@46.166.142.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:04-!-orel [~orel@89-93-87-220.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #debian
14:04-!-orel is "orel" on #debian-fr #debian
14:05-!-bluca [~bluca@2a00:23c5:bef3:400:9531:588b:44ae:bec4] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
14:05-!-edeak [~edeak@196.210.115.89.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:08-!-asdqwe [~pepek@193.150.72.124] has joined #debian
14:08-!-asdqwe is "..." on #debian
14:08-!-asdqwe [~pepek@193.150.72.124] has left #debian []
14:11-!-fundacite [~fundacite@150.185.252.172] has joined #debian
14:11-!-fundacite is "fundacite" on #debian
14:12-!-fundacite [~fundacite@150.185.252.172] has quit []
14:14-!-herbmillerjr [~herbmille@50-248-67-123-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #debian
14:14-!-herbmillerjr is "realname" on #debian #debian-arm #debian-xfce
14:15-!-adfsgsfgz356 [~marc@ip-83-99-79-213.dyn.luxdsl.pt.lu] has joined #debian
14:15-!-adfsgsfgz356 is "realname" on #debian
14:15-!-gabriel1_ [~gabriel1@host189-139-dynamic.35-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #debian
14:15-!-gabriel1_ is "Gab" on #debian #debian-it #tor #ubuntu
14:16-!-yoha [~candle@84-75-108-27.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:17-!-adfsgsfgz356 [~marc@ip-83-99-79-213.dyn.luxdsl.pt.lu] has quit []
14:20-!-nodiscc [~auto@0001cbb9.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:21-!-nodiscc [~auto@0001cbb9.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
14:21-!-nodiscc is "purple" on #debian-next #debian #debian-fr
14:24-!-basty [~basty@p5B20F1D2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #debian
14:24-!-basty is "basty" on #debian
14:24-!-basty [~basty@p5B20F1D2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #debian []
14:26-!-adhawkins [~adhawkins@cpc81706-swin18-2-0-cust160.3-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:28-!-Q-Master [~q-master@78-106-182-103.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:31-!-shrayz [~hax0r8@45.120.235.137] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
14:32-!-Q-Master [~q-master@78-106-182-103.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #debian
14:32-!-Q-Master is "Vladimir Berezenko" on #debian-next #debian #debianppc
14:37-!-amacater [~amacater@cpc78099-stav21-2-0-cust32.17-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
14:38-!-retrospectacus [~adama@199.85.226.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:38-!-Guest168 [~m@92.39.205.122] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
14:38-!-mathieu [~mathieu@nie67-1-78-226-109-145.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #debian
14:38-!-mathieu is "Blum Mathieu" on #debian-fr #debian-kde #debian
14:42-!-somtalgu [~adam@2601:643:8081:3411:3c0f:ac2c:4878:5c92] has joined #debian
14:42-!-somtalgu is "Adam" on #debian
14:42-!-ykrons_ is "snorky" on #kernelnewbies #mtd #multiarch
14:42-!-ykrons_ [~ykrons@2a02-8434-2b23-fa01-40e5-9839-fd31-80b5.rev.sfr.net] has joined #debian
14:44-!-c10wn5mk [~c10wn5mk@191.35.125.85] has joined #debian
14:44-!-c10wn5mk is "c10wn5mk" on #debian
14:48-!-jhutchins_wk [~jonathan@12.171.62.202] has joined #debian
14:48-!-jhutchins_wk is "Jonathan Hutchins" on #oftc #debian
14:49-!-basty_ [~basty@p5B20F6AB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #debian
14:49-!-basty_ is "basty" on #debian
14:49-!-basty_ [~basty@p5B20F6AB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #debian []
14:49-!-iderik [~idk@000262ff.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: iderik]
14:55-!-jhutchin1_wk [~jonathan@12.171.62.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:55-!-gnosis [~quassel@78.174.156.105] has joined #debian
14:55-!-gnosis is "gnosis" on #debian
14:56-!-wargreen [~wargreen@2a01:e35:2ec5:f030:3419:cab6:7fce:1f5f] has joined #debian
14:56-!-wargreen is "realname" on #debian-next #debian
14:58-!-earthundead [~earthunde@91.239.69.162] has joined #debian
14:58-!-earthundead is "realname" on #debian
15:06-!-Oebele_ [~quassel@143.177.58.202] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:09-!-anders [~anders@ip130-231-210-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #debian
15:09-!-anders is "anders" on #debian #codesurfers #channel #C #c++ #32in24
15:11-!-iflema [~ian@203-217-35-167.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #debian
15:11-!-iflema is "ian" on #debian #slackware
15:11-!-ach [~spooky@ip-109-43-0-74.web.vodafone.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:11-!-gnosis_ [~quassel@78.174.156.105] has joined #debian
15:11-!-gnosis_ is "gnosis" on #debian
15:13-!-adhawkins [~adhawkins@2001:470:1f1d:da2:249c:f1ff:fe03:fca] has joined #debian
15:13-!-adhawkins is "Andy Hawkins" on #debian-multimedia #debian
15:13-!-retrospectacus [~adama@199.85.226.242] has joined #debian
15:13-!-retrospectacus is "Adam" on #debian #debian-offtopic #tsco
15:14-!-mathieu [~mathieu@nie67-1-78-226-109-145.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
15:14-!-ansel [~ansel@tmo-098-204.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #debian
15:14-!-ansel is "Andreas Seltenreich" on #debian
15:15-!-gnosis [~quassel@78.174.156.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:15-!-ldnunes [~ldnunes@181.220.79.73] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:17-!-marcus [~marcus@c-ed3572d5.014-990-7570702.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #debian
15:17-!-marcus is "Marcus Lundblad" on #debian #osm.se-spam #OSM.se #debian-gnome
15:17-!-earthundead [~earthunde@91.239.69.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:21-!-ed_ [~ed@ip72-192-24-150.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #debian
15:21-!-ed_ is "Ed Hamilton" on #debian-next #debian-ftp #debian-cd #debian-kde #debian
15:22-!-ach [~spooky@ip-109-43-0-74.web.vodafone.de] has joined #debian
15:22-!-ach is "KVIrc 4.9.2 Aria http://kvirc.net/" on #debian
15:22-!-giaur [~quassel@public-gprs370010.centertel.pl] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
15:23-!-mr_byt3s [~byt3s@2001:a62:2d:6401:b43c:3c04:74b8:e9c3] has joined #debian
15:23-!-mr_byt3s is "realname" on #debian #debian-next
15:23-!-giaur [~quassel@public-gprs370010.centertel.pl] has joined #debian
15:23-!-giaur is "giaur" on #debian
15:24-!-iflema [~ian@203-217-35-167.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:26-!-mr_byt3s [~byt3s@2001:a62:2d:6401:b43c:3c04:74b8:e9c3] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:26-!-ao2 [~ao2@host243-146-dynamic.23-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #debian
15:26-!-ao2 is "ao2" on #debian #cell
15:29-!-marian1 [~marian@p5B15A032.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:30-!-elsimpsoms [~quassel@host85.190-225-209.telecom.net.ar] has joined #debian
15:30-!-elsimpsoms is "carlos" on #debian
15:30-!-pavlushka [~pavlushka@00021abb.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: See you on the other side]
15:32-!-anon [~anon@2607:fea8:f200:1ed:719d:f591:70f0:44bd] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:33-!-czesmir_ [~stefan@daz107.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #debian
15:33-!-czesmir_ is "Stefan" on #debian-next #debian
15:33-!-ach [~spooky@ip-109-43-0-74.web.vodafone.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:36-!-ach [~spooky@ip-109-43-0-74.web.vodafone.de] has joined #debian
15:36-!-ach is "KVIrc 4.9.2 Aria http://kvirc.net/" on #debian
15:37-!-paxmark [~paxmark@199.167.137.207] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:40-!-czesmir [~stefan@dbc212.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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15:51<InventorX>hey
15:51<annadane>InventorX, hi
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15:55<webmind>is there a way to do named interfaces in debian stretch? it makes my network config so much clearer
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15:56<webmind>I considered doing post-up ip link set dev enp6s0.3 name voip
15:56<webmind>but uhm, that kinda confuses things
15:58<somiaj>webmind: you mean convert back to the old eth0 namaing?
15:58<somiaj>https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/PredictableNetworkInterfaceNames/
15:58<somiaj>there are advantages to the new names, they are predecitable and not just based on 'first network card found', but yes you can revert back to the old method.
15:58<webmind>somiaj: no
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15:59<webmind>I want my interfaces named after what they are for, so 'wan', 'lan', 'voip', 'wifi'
15:59<webmind>etc
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16:00<somiaj>webmind: so read that link and go down to how di I disable this.
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16:00<somiaj>and yes by eth0, wlan0, etc, you can revert back to the old naming method.
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16:00<webmind>somiaj: but I'm not asking to disable it? the old naming-scheme is not want I want either
16:00<jhutchins_wk>somiaj: He's not wanting to revert, he wants to define his own device names.
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16:01<somiaj>oh sorry, I miss understood. I guess you could go back to the old naming shcheme and then use persistant network names bassed off of mac address, but I haven't seen much on that.
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16:02<somiaj>though there maybe a better way to set the names with systemd than I'm use to
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16:03<webmind>that's what I'm wondering about
16:04<somiaj>https://superuser.com/questions/914646/renaming-network-interface-with-systemd -- seems to suggest what I just did. So first disable the perdicatble naming thing to go back to the old system. This should create a /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules
16:04<somiaj>then modify the card to be named what you like.
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16:06<jhutchins_wk>webmind: There are some ideas in this article: https://serverfault.com/questions/424522/arbitrary-vlan-interface-name
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16:09<webmind>jhutchins_wk: thanks
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16:09<webmind>the 'ip link' options can be a bit confusing though
16:10<webmind>the last one, the pre-up perhaps least so, but still
16:10<webmind>with post-up it gets confusing when you get to your inet6 config
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16:10<webmind>I guess there is some order of processing in /etc/network/interfaces but I wouldn't trust on it
16:10<Airwave>iobound: I just confirmed that my Supermicro server was affected by the same bug. I fixed it by setting the kernel parameter numa=off as suggested in the bug, and then downgrading.
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16:11<somiaj>webmind: note that won't be persistant, use a udev rule if you want it persistant.
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16:11<webmind>yeah, I'll see if that still works with systemd
16:12<somiaj>webmind: it does, read the link I mentioned. My stretch system still uses the old naming convention due to my udev rule that has been around for a while
16:12<webmind>ok
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16:13<jhutchins_wk>somiaj: It's configurable, upgraded systems will use the old method.
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16:14<webmind>just created /etc/udev/rules.d/persistent-net.rules, added a rule and it works
16:14<webmind>thanks!
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16:15<iobound>Airwave: nice. looks like someone's there working on bisecting the kernel versions so hopefully there will be an official update soon (?) :)
16:17<somiaj>webmind: I would follow the suggestion of calling it 70-, as those files do get parsed in an order.
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16:21<webmind>ok
16:21<webmind>dir is empty though
16:22<Airwave>iobound: Yeah, I hope so. Thanks again for filing the bug!
16:22<iobound>sure and thanks for chiming in with info! :)
16:22<Airwave>:-)
16:23<jhutchins_wk>webmind: I would expect that if most of the udev responsibilities have been taken over by systemd.
16:24<somiaj>I thought udev was just part of systemd, but seems the old rules are still honored which is why upgrades keep the same interface name it seems.
16:25<webmind>makes sense
16:25<webmind>now the question of vlans :)
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16:30<jhutchins_wk>somiaj: There's a kernel parameter that turns the new names off (defaults to on).
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16:31<somiaj>jhutchins_wk: correct, which was my original suggestion. But it appears the udev rule overrides the systems method of naming in either case.
16:31<jhutchins_wk>Apparently the "new" naming scheme dates to 2009.
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16:32<somiaj>not surprised, change happens slower than most realize, but most don't follow systemd close enough and only get hit with it when it is implmented as default.
16:33<jhutchins_wk>It starts to make sense when you're looking at a server with four ethernet connectors and two fiberchannels.
16:34<somiaj>and having to deal with reboots and create all these hacks due to the old standard linux naming scheme, just anmes things based on what the kernel sees first.
16:35<webmind>would be nice if you could give an vlan id in the interfaces config and keep the name completely free-form
16:35<somiaj>alsa has finally gotten over that hump with allowing names instead of numbers for the cards.
16:35<somiaj>webmind: the kernel naming is independeint of the interfaces file, the interfaces file just uses that name to talk to the kernel.
16:35<somiaj>hence why you wanted a udev rule to set the name.
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16:38<webmind>somiaj: yes, but how do you use the udev stuff for vlans?
16:39<somiaj>webmind: sorry missed vlans. These are different.
16:39<webmind>:)
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16:42<webmind>hmm
16:42<webmind>so I have in my config:
16:42<webmind>iface wifi inet static
16:42<webmind> pre-up ip link add link trunk name voip type vlan id 64
16:42<webmind>below that, I have 'iface wifi inet6 static'
16:43<webmind>can I asume the interface now exists or?
16:43<webmind>could inet6 be configured before inet?
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16:43<grawity>udev stuff *could* kind of be used, in the sense of RUN+="/sbin/ip link add ..."
16:44<grawity>bit of a hack though
16:44<webmind>grawity: but what would trigger it?
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16:45<grawity>the addition of the parent interface
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16:45<grawity>ACTION=="add", SUBSYSTEM=="net", KERNEL=="wlan0", RUN+="foo"
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16:46<grawity>I do not 100% know how it'll interact with interface renaming though
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16:55<webmind>grawity: yeah, I might want to bring them up/down seperatly
16:56<grawity>well, pre-up is not much of an improvement in that regard :)
16:56<webmind>well a bit
16:56<webmind>it's atleast somewhat disconnected from the parent interface
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16:57<webmind>it only gets vague when you have to consider order in the interfaces file
16:57<grawity>in what sense
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16:57<webmind>that I can do ifup/ifdown seperately
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16:58<grawity>running `ifup wifi` creates the voip interface, how is that separate
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17:00<webmind>it wouldn't
17:00<webmind>oops
17:00<webmind>there's typo
17:00<webmind>iface voip inet static
17:00<webmind> pre-up ip link add link trunk name voip type vlan id 64
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17:00<webmind>is what it should be
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17:02<webmind>so 'ifup voip' creates the 'voip@trunk' interface
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17:04<webmind>which is addressed by it's 'voip' name
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17:07<iobound>does anyone know if the debian7 DLA-1200 linux kernel update is safe to install, or is there a chance it might be affected by the debian 8.10 kernel oops for numa multi-socket CPU machines?
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18:48<iobound>Airwave: looks like a fix is on the way, saw this linked from #debian-kernel https://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/kernel/linux.git/commit/?id=67624fc
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18:49<Airwave>iobound: Nice, thanks for the update!
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19:20<Zathras>hi. I just attempted to install Stretch on a new laptop with nvme disk. Grub claimed it could install. However when rebooting I get to a windows repair screen instead of grub. How can I fix this please?
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19:30<awal1>Zathras, reinsert your disk and chose "Use entire disk" (for Debian), when the installer prompts you about how you want your disk to be partitioned :P
19:31<awal1>your disk image*
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19:35<Zathras>awal1, that was kind of what I do not want
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19:36<Zathras>I would like to be able to reverse to a windows install for support/guaranty reasons
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19:37<annadane>you probably "just" need to reconfigure grub
19:37<Zathras>removing the main windows partition should be enough imho
19:37<Zathras>yes
19:37<annadane>i don't, however, know how to do that
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19:39<awal1>!grub rescue
19:39<Zathras>currenly booted with live DVD
19:40<awal1>Zathras, well, here we may have ideas about how to recover when you get a grub rescue mode, but getting a windows repair screen, no clue myself
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19:41<awal1>and I think you should google windows recovery side
19:41<awal1>bcoz you get windows repair not gnu grub rescue
19:42<awal1>!fixmbr
19:42<dpkg>To reinstall <GRUB> boot to your Debian install disk/live CD, switch to the other console (Alt-F2), mount your root filesystem (mount -t ext4 /dev/whatever /target ; mount --bind /dev /target/dev ; mount -t proc none /target/proc ; mount -t sysfs none /target/sys), chroot into it (chroot /target), run "mount /boot/efi" on EFI and "update-grub && grub-install /dev/whatever". See also <rescue mode>, <dual boot guide>, <supergrub>.
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19:42<annadane>right, that one
19:43<annadane>though that's to install to the install disc
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19:44<Zathras>http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?t=131613 seems informative
19:44<awal1>Zathras, windows7?
19:45<Zathras>nope 10
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20:08<iKarith>More and more, I think I find myself preferring refind personally. Grub just isn't as good at figuring out how to play nice with various poor implementations of EFI without being stuffed into the removable media path, and if you do that you're going to have trouble figuring out which "debian" is your hard drive and which is that USB rescue stick you are trying to boot from.
20:10<iKarith>System boot menus are profoundly stupid most of the time, and refind does a pretty good job of replacing them completely while still giving you the ability to find what you want to boot. Admittedly a little less convenient for rejiggering command line args on the fly, but … in the modern era of systemd and initrds, you rarely want to change anything as a one-off.
20:11<annadane>iKarith, can you clarify what you mean by refined?
20:11<somiaj>needing a full bootloader with EFI is also not needed, gummiboot, can be enough with uefi too.
20:11<somiaj>(or whatever gummiboot is now called)
20:11<somiaj>I think systemd ate that up too
20:11<iKarith>http://www.rodsbooks.com/refind/
20:12<annadane>oh, refind, sorry
20:12<iKarith>gummiboot is a very simplistic EFI bootloader. It's kinda not needed since the kernel itself has its own EFI stub.
20:12<iKarith>but yes it is a part of systemd now.
20:12<annadane>it's in stretch and sid, cool beans (and buster)
20:14<iKarith>what's cool about refind is that it kinda works like the macOS boot menu (except obviously with a lot more knobs and configurability). You pretty much have to tell grub exactly what you want to boot and generate a menu for it. You could type commands in the shell to do the same thing, but they're complex and who does that?
20:15<iKarith>With refind, it just finds bootable stuff when it comes up and shows it to you. USB sticks? Anything it can boot. Except the things you explicitly tell it you don't want to see. (Windows has a few partitions that are not meant to be booted that appear bootable in many boot managers)
20:16<annadane>i'm not in need of it right now but i'll definitely keep it in mind, thanks for that
20:17<iKarith>The refind website is great reading for understanding EFI in general.
20:21<iKarith>(I just wish it could do some of the cool stuff Clover does—Clover's a hackintosh thing, but it can make all systems effectively "EFI" even if the EFI support is broken (Dell series 6 boards) or nonexistant, as well as the hackintoshy bits. Clover sucks for booting Linux though because you literally have to list every kernel you wanna boot in a config file. Refind you just tell it what
20:21<iKarith>command line to give you for Linux kernels in this directory…
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20:22<iKarith>(Grub's obviously a MUCH simpler solution on a system that is all Debian all the time, especially if you DON'T need to put it in the removable media path.)
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20:30<Zathras>sounds like grub v1 which needed a lot of editing
20:31<Zathras>pity debian installer does not allow lvm auto setup for free diskspace, only full disk
20:31<ryouma>i have a hub on my monitor. should i be able to boot from usb plugged into that? it is a very old bios machine with usb 2.
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20:40<Zathras>ryouma, that probably depends on chipsets/usb-bridges. I would not count on it. Yet easy to test with a live stick
20:41<Zathras>oh. and obviously associated drivers
20:41<ryouma>thanks
20:41<ryouma>in general, can you copy root, copy boot, chroot, grub-install on a usb and it will boot?
20:42<Zathras>or do it the easy way: download an iso
20:43<Zathras>I would not use it as a daily boot.
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20:56<ryouma>Zathras: my goal is to make a backup that is my existing system, with boot and root and part of home
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20:56<ryouma>for accessibility reasons, no iso out there (debian, grml) really works for me, and in addition they take too much typing to fight it to get it so i can solve the problem i am trying to solve with it.
20:58<Zathras>boot+root = system --> image works best. home is data --> regular backup works best, especially if you only care about part of it.
20:59<Zathras>maybe you should split things up and consider, is a system important, or is the config important?
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21:01<ryouma>what do you mean image works best?
21:01<ryouma>what is image?
21:02<ryouma>restatement of part of problem: if i can copy root and boot and chroot to get an internal drive working, then can i do the same thing for a thumb drive?
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21:06<Zathras>image: create an image (dd or whatever)
21:06<Zathras>copying: I am not a big fan (ownership etc), but will probably work
21:07<ryouma>ah image impractical due to size of target
21:07<Zathras>seems like a lot of work and potential error
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21:07<ryouma>i've got the copying part down perfectly (except for race conditions)
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21:08<ryouma>but it sounds ilke you're saying if i get it to work then it should boot but not nec from hub
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21:09<Zathras>imho hubs are not very reliable. It *might* work
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22:12<arabag>hi
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---Logclosed Tue Dec 12 00:00:02 2017