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#debian IRC Logs for 2017-12-14

---Logopened Thu Dec 14 00:00:04 2017
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00:33<francia>hola
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00:45-!-jm_ is "." on #debian #debian-ops
00:46<xormor>compiling the newest kernel from the URL https://github.com/torvalds/linux here.
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01:32<hosiet>Hello all, I'm looking for an (somewhat) official document for debian-updates repo
01:32<hosiet>For proposed-updates, we have https://www.debian.org/releases/proposed-updates
01:32<hosiet>But I couldn't find any words about -updates repo
01:33<hosiet>If anyone know the url for such document, please tell me :-)
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01:35<somiaj>https://wiki.debian.org/StableUpdates
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01:36<hosiet>Okay. Looks like that doesn't exist on www.debian.org
01:38<somiaj>yea, i'm unsure, that is just what I found, and the wiki is fairly offical these days
01:38<xormor>https://wiki.debian.org/StableUpdates
01:38<nezos>I have run fsck and I get: Error reading block 9249 (Input/output error). Ignore error<y> What should I answer to mark it as bad?
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01:39<somiaj>hosiet: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianReleases it is listed here under workflow, to see how it fits into the the puzzle
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01:40<somiaj>oh wait, that is still on the wiki
01:41<hosiet>That flowchart looks awesoome
01:41<rjsalts>looks like it was created by graphviz
01:42<somiaj>nezos: sounds like you have a bad block on your drive if it is an input/output error
01:43<nezos>somiaj what should I answer there?
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01:43<somiaj>nezos: maybe marking it as bad will keep the filesystem from using it. You may want to do an actual hardware test on the drive, as it could be failing.
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01:43<nezos>somiaj yes or no will mark it bad?
01:45<somiaj>not postive, I would ask google myself.
01:45<nezos>already done this but it is not clear why some answer yes
01:46<somiaj>I think if you don't ignore the error, fsck just stops and errors out.
01:46<nezos>hope it works cause it took 12 hours to get here....
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02:11<elof_>why can't I use fdsik command?
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02:14<Drzacek>good morning
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02:16<Drzacek>can debian "update" its current partitioning? I mean - when I install debian, I say I want partition X for /, other one for /home, swap etc and it generates all the config files.
02:16<jm_>elof_: try /sbin/fdisk
02:16<Drzacek>I zeroed partition where SWAP was and then created it again with mkswap - but it generates new ID or something
02:17<jm_>Drzacek: and now it's not active anymore? edit /etc/fstab and put in new UUID
02:17<Drzacek>not sure if its just as simple to update entry in fstab or are there other places
02:17<grawity>mostly just fstab, really
02:17<jm_>and recreate your initrd
02:17<Drzacek>okay, wasn't sure
02:18<Drzacek>jm_, sooo update grub
02:18<jm_>Drzacek: update-initramfs -u
02:19<Drzacek>isn't this called when I update grub?
02:20<jm_>update-grub? not that I know
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02:30<Drzacek>hmmm something about RESUME variable? Just set it in bash as other variables, or does it go somewhere special?
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02:31<jm_>that's why I suggested to rebuild initrd, so it doesn't pick up the new value automatically?
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02:32<jm_>then check /etc/initramfs-tools/conf.d/resume
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02:32<Drzacek>done, thanks
02:32<jm_>no problem
02:32<Drzacek>jm_, the warning came when I run update initramfs
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02:33<Drzacek>thanks for help
02:33<jm_>Drzacek: yeah I realized
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05:13<Jonny>Hello guys.
05:13<Jonny>I have a question regarding cheap AMD ATI cards.
05:13<petn-randall>!ask
05:13<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
05:14<Jonny>ask! Are all AMD ATI cards supported by Nouveau, i.e. full HD and vsync? Thanks
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05:16<petn-randall>Jonny: You should be able to check the nouveau project page for supported cards. But as a rule of thumb, brand new cards tend to still have problems or are not supported yet.
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05:17<rjsalts>Isn't nouveau only nvidia?
05:18<Jonny>Ok thanks petn
05:18<Jonny>rjsalts: yeah you could be right there, that rings a bell, in that case what is the open source AMD driver?
05:19<Jonny>yeah your right they dont mention AMD here: https://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/FeatureMatrix/
05:20<rjsalts>just radeon
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05:20<rjsalts>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_and_open-source_graphics_device_driver#ATI_and_AMD
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05:22<Jonny>What is the name of open source radeon drivers ?
05:22<rjsalts>radeon
05:22<Jonny>oh ok thanks sorry
05:23<rjsalts>xserver-xorg-video-radeon is the package
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05:24<Jonny>cheers rj
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05:24<rjsalts>there is also xserver-xorg-video-amdgpu, although I'm not sure how that fits into the picture
05:25<petn-randall>Argh, mixed them up again, yes.
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05:25<Jonny>Yeah its quite hard finding a supported devices list. I would aim of buying a Fully supported device
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05:26<Jonny>petn-randall: remember yesterday regarding non-free? You say it is in the GPU at some level anyway and is the Debian distro in parts anyway?
05:26<Jonny>in*
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05:27<Jonny>found the supported devices here: https://www.x.org/wiki/RadeonFeature/#index7h2
05:28<petn-randall>Jonny: Yes, *firmware* is software running on the device. In AMD/Nvidia GPUs this code is non-free. It is always running if you turn on a GPU. If you download a newer firmware from the non-free suite, you're just updating that non-free firmware.
05:29<Jonny>Wow, put like that, i am already at a loss right now. Hmmm.
05:30<Jonny>Ok then from your expierence is there any internet activity regarding Nvidia where data mining or telemetry is occuring with Linux Nvidia firmware?
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05:44<Jonny>You reckon this would be ok https://uk.webuy.com/product.php?sku=SGRAATI54501024 ?
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05:46<Jonny>I am just looking for 1080p support really
05:46<Jonny>because even if i fix my resolution with my Nvidia 950 with backport firmware, i still get screen tearing
05:47<Jonny>Any of you heard of compton window manager?
05:47<grawity>I've heard of it
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05:47<bremner>the Wayland thingie?
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05:48<bremner>oh. no, that's weston, I guess.
05:48<Jonny>Yeah would compton fix screen tearing?
05:48<grawity>possibly, since it's a compositor
05:49<Jonny>hmm
05:49<Jonny>yeah i hope it works
05:49<Jonny>if it don't then i will literally buy a second hand £12 ATI GPU lol.
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05:50<grawity>(also it's not a window manager; it's a compositor that /attaches/ to your cheapo non-compositing window manager)
05:50<Jonny>oh i see.
05:50<Jonny>thanks
05:50<Jonny>https://uk.webuy.com/product.php?sku=SGRAATIHD64501GB do you reckon that would be enough for 1080p videos?
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06:10<petn-randall>Jonny: I doubt the GPU can do any data mining (not sure what you mean with that in this context) or telemetry as it can't access the network.
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06:11<Jonny>petn-randall: perfect. Thanks for letting me know. I will just install the firmware now then :)!
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06:12<Jonny>petn-randall: one more question concerning graphics and that is the persistance of screen tearing after the firmware upgrade. Would a compositor like compton fix screen tearing? Cheers petn.
06:12<petn-randall>Jonny: If you're worried about firmware, then you shouldn't be running current x86 CPUs, either. They've also got microcode running on them.
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06:14<Jonny>petn-randall: I see that is interesting to know. Out of curiosity is there a CPU architecture that doesnt use microcode or is that imposible?
06:14<petn-randall>Jonny: I don't think screen tearing has anything to do with compton, but I might be wrong.
06:14<Jonny>petn-randall: Oh well that could be annoying if its Nvidia related.
06:15<petn-randall>Jonny: There are CPUs that have no or free microcode, possibly some ARM CPUs? Not really my area of expertise.
06:15<Jonny>petn-randall: that is very interesting. I will have a little look on it.
06:15<petn-randall>Jonny: If you don't want screen tearing, using vsync and possibly other options like "tearfree" would help.
06:16<Jonny>petn-randall: ah thankyou, is 'tearfree' a package?
06:16<Jonny>vsync would be helpful
06:16<Jonny>i don't want energy waste going over 60fps
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06:27<petn-randall>Jonny: It's an option for X11, at least I can set it for intel GPUs.
06:27<Jonny>I dont think i have X11
06:27<Jonny>but ok its an option, thanks.
06:27<grawity>if you're running Xorg, you're using X11
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06:28<Jonny>ah ok
06:28<grawity>because that is what Xorg does
06:28<Jonny>i see
06:28<Jonny>well i will install this firmware , get my 1080x1920 back and then focus on fixing screen tearing
06:28<Jonny>brb fellas
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06:46<Jonny>back on 1920x1080 yay.
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06:48<petn-randall>Jonny: Congrats!
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06:48<Jonny>petn-randall: thanks petn :D!
06:49<Jonny>petn-randall: you reassured me well :P
06:49<Jonny>and taught me things
06:50<ellie>morning
06:51<Jonny>morning
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07:09<lightkkk>list
07:09<lightkkk>Sorry
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07:25<Jonny>yeah installing compton worked well
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07:26<Jonny>its not astounding free screen tear but much better than what it was.
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07:31<EmleyMoor>Trying to get vnc access to my desktop, from Android's RealVNC client, but the authentication method requested (whatever it happens to be) isn't supported. Can anyone advise?
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07:36<Jonny>petn-randall: Is there any way to measure FPS on the desktop?
07:37<EmleyMoor>... anothe VNC viewer for Android perhaps? Tried two, both fail
07:37<Jonny>petn-randall: i want to see if vsync is working
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07:46<petn-randall>Jonny: The logs should tell you
07:47<Zimsky>why did I read that as "the logs should kill you"
07:47<Jonny>petn-randall: Sorry, which logs? thanks.
07:47<Jonny>lol
07:47<Jonny>he probably wants the logs to kill me, i been asking him questions all morning and yesterday haha
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07:51<Iridos>those logs can be pretty deadly
07:51<Iridos>Beware of logs!
07:52<Jonny>lol
07:55<Jonny>seriously though are there logs that show current FPS? lol
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07:56<petn-randall>Jonny: An FPS counter doesn't make much sense on a desktop. If the picture doesn't change, there is no new "frame" that gets sent to GPU, thus you have 0 fps.
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07:56<petn-randall>Jonny: You can check the logs if vsync is enabled.
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07:59<Jonny>petn-randall: Oh i see!, ok thanks. I was just worried about needless energy wasteage.
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08:11<EmleyMoor>The topic is out of date <g>
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08:14<petn-randall>EmleyMoor: Which part?
08:15<petn-randall>Oh, 9.3
08:16-!-mode/#debian [+o petn-randall] by ChanServ
08:16-!-petn-randall changed the topic of #debian to: Debian Stretch: /msg dpkg stretch ; /msg dpkg 9.3 ; /msg dpkg jessie->stretch; /msg dpkg install stretch | Oldstable: Debian Jessie /msg dpkg jessie ; /msg dpkg 8.10 | NO FLOOD: /msg dpkg paste | /msg bots NOT people | offtopic: #debian-offtopic | unstable: #debian-next | chanlogs: /msg dpkg irclog
08:18-!-mode/#debian [-o petn-randall] by ChanServ
08:21<EmleyMoor>Does the "Screen Sharing" option in Gnome on stretch actually work?
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08:21<petn-randall>!tias
08:21<dpkg>TIAS is "Try It And See".
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08:35<elof_>My panel has volume control, but the system cannot play sound.
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08:45<musca>elof_: how many sound devices does your system have? Maybe a hdmi device is muted?
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08:46<elof_>um,I was trying to use earphone,.
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08:47<elof_>I use my built-in
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09:02<ellie>is there any screenshoot tool like the crosshair in os x that can be used in debian?
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09:02<ellie>I use the gnome-screenshot tool that sort of works the same, but I really enjoyed the ALT F4 shortcut from MAC OS X
09:02<ellie>and question number two:
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09:02<somiaj>ellie: what do you want to take the screenshot of?
09:02<ellie>the screenshot tool saves in .png by default and files are quite large
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09:03<ellie>is there any way to set it to JPG?
09:03<somiaj>there are lots of screenshot tools, but the ones I know of are more command line. scrot is a decent one.
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09:03<elof_>my motherboard is asus p8h61-m lx3 r2.0
09:03<somiaj>and you can define your own short cuts for that.
09:03<ellie>screenshots of different areas of the screen. I don't know if you are familiar with mac osx but if you press alt fn f4 you get crosshairs that you can draw on the screen and whatever gets inside gets shot
09:04<ellie>yeah i'm using gnome-screenshot
09:04<ellie>it has crosshairs
09:04<ellie>I'd like to create a shortcut for it, and id like to save as jpg by default
09:04<somiaj>not sure what you mean by cross hairs, but 'scrot -s' may do what you want.
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09:07<ellie>https://ibb.co/ksTR0R
09:07<ellie>(image of what I mean)
09:08<ellie>you need to open the app, press take screenshot and then you are able to draw a box on the screen of whatever you want to shoot
09:08<ellie>id like that to be automatic by a combination of keys
09:08<ellie>and the screenshot to be saved as jpg by default
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09:08<ellie>png makes files rather large in size and are unsuitable for web articles
09:08<somiaj>as I said, scrot -s may do what you need
09:09<ellie>is that an app?
09:09<ellie>eleanor@misty:~$ scrot -s
09:09<ellie>bash: scrot: command not found
09:09<somiaj>oh looks like scrot defaults to .png, probably because they are better format that wont' have loss
09:09<somiaj>so install it, apt install scrot
09:09<somiaj>but convernt .png to .jpg isn't that hard.
09:10<somiaj>just use imagemagik
09:10<ellie>yeah but that slows down my productivity quite a lot
09:10<ellie>it has to be automatic like on mac osx
09:10<ellie>on mac it also saved as png by default but I typed something in the terminal a while back
09:10<somiaj>how?
09:10<ellie>and made it save as jpg
09:10<ellie>mac osx you press fn f4 and just draw an area of the screen u wanna shoot
09:10<ellie>and thats it
09:10<somiaj>it wouldn't take much to write a small script that took a screenshot then converted it to a jpg.
09:10<ellie>you got a jpg file
09:11<ellie>I wouldn't know how
09:11<ellie>I'm not a mega advanced user
09:11<somiaj>then look for other aps, there are no sortage of screenshot apps
09:11<blast007>but "automatic" theay mean "using a hotkey"
09:11<blast007>by*
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09:12<ellie>that doesnt help but thanks anyway
09:12<ellie>yeah automatise the process of taking a screenshot
09:12<somiaj>you don't even need to write a script, just read the scrot manpage, you can also generate a thumbnila too.
09:12<ellie>nt having to open an app, press a button, convert a png file to jpg etc
09:13<somiaj>scrot -s '%Y-%m-%d_$wx$h.png' -e 'convert $f $f.jpg'
09:13<somiaj>there you go, a single command that will take a screen shot and convert it to a .jpg
09:14<blast007>sounds like you can create custom keyboard shortcuts in Gnome, KDE, and probably others
09:14<somiaj>or scrot -s -t '%Y-%m-%d_$wx$h.png' -e 'convert $f $f.jpg' and it will even make a thumbnail for you
09:14<ellie>I'll try that
09:14<somiaj>and then yes, you bind that command to a key, you can even add stuff to automatically move this into this, hmm, one second, you may not need convert
09:15<somiaj>yea seems scrot does .jpg, scrot -s '%Y-%m-%d_$wx$h.jpg' -e 'mv $f /my/scrot/dir'
09:15<somiaj>that will let you select a window or box in an area, take a screen shot, make it a .jpg, and move it to your screen shot dir
09:16<somiaj>ellie: linux gives you lots of power, you just need to read man pages and piece things together, in some cases the thing you want is not just setup.
09:17<ellie>perfect
09:17<ellie>now how can I convert this to a hotkey
09:17<ellie> scrot -s '%Y-%m-%d_$wx$h.jpg' -e 'mv $f /home/eleanor/Desktop'
09:17<blast007>do you use Gnome?
09:17<ellie>cinnamon
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09:18<blast007>so probably the same then. system settings > keyboard, shortcut tab, add new custom shortcut
09:19<ellie>think I figured it out
09:19<ellie>yeah
09:19<ellie>I went to custom shortucts
09:19<ellie>lets try it out
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09:20<somiaj>ellie: note this method takes a little more work, but provides more power. You can only put so many options in a GUI tool, and in many cases linux is setup so you can configure it to use the apps you want, and apps can be sent different options. It does require reding man pages and figuring it out though.
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09:23<ellie>it seems to work but it is a bit buggy
09:23<somiaj>what do you mean by a bit buggy? Or is it just not working like you want/expcted?
09:24<ellie>"failed to execute process screenshot"
09:24<ellie>and sometimes it does work
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09:24<ellie>i made it so CTRL 4 snaps
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10:25<hmpf1>Hi. Does anybody have an idea where to start when the kernel stops booting when he is supposed to mount an ext4 from an emmc?
10:25<hmpf1>CPU is i.MX7d (armhf).
10:25<hmpf1>http://paste.debian.net/1000735
10:25<petn-randall>hmpf1: xoritor didn't give you good advice.
10:25<petn-randall>!crosspost
10:25<dpkg>Posting the same question in several places at the same time (IRC channels, news groups, mailing lists, forums) is impolite; your time is NOT more valuable than everyone else's. Your question might be answered elsewhere, meanwhile we are wasting our time doing research for a problem you've already solved. Cross-posting can also make you look like a spammer and get you k:lined. See also <multiple ask> <hurry>.
10:26<hmpf1>petn-randall: my bad. sorry.
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10:27<petn-randall>hmpf1: No worries, the other channel is the larger one, anyway, so your question will find an answer quicker over there.
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11:05<zathras>In Debian Jessie I have both dblib5.1 and dblib5.3 packages installed (for openldap). However only db5.1_recover is available, not db5.3_recover so it seems. How come/how can I solve this please?
11:05<zathras>I am trying to recover, but: program versions 5.1 doesn't match environment version 5.3
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11:10<blast007>zathras: do you have db5.3-util installed?
11:11<zathras>blast007, no. ty
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11:31<zathras>fixed
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12:08<Ace>olah
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12:34<Someonz>How can I set an encrypted swap?
12:35<tt>Someonz: at installation time or after install?
12:35<Someonz>tt, after install
12:35<tt>Someonz: you might be able to do it w/ gparted, not sure
12:36<tt>but it's the same process as making an encrypted filesystem, you make an encrypted block device
12:36<tt>then mkswap on it, I'll find you a guide
12:36<tt>do you use LVM?
12:37<Someonz>tt no
12:37<tt>in the future, you might consider it.
12:38<tt>I like to setup like a 500M or whatever /boot, then make the rest of the disk 1 big encrypted container, which contains one big LVM PV, then carve LVs out of that
12:38<Someonz>tt, yeah, but actually I just need to make an encrypted swap
12:38<tt>sigh, ok fine like I said I'll find you a guide
12:38<tt>you have a partition already then?
12:38<tt>or you want a swapfile?
12:39<Someonz>tt, I have a swap partition
12:39<tt>use swapoff to "unmount"/deactivate it
12:39<tt>then you do this: https://debian-administration.org/article/469/How_to_set_up_an_encrypted_filesystem_in_several_easy_steps
12:39<Someonz>Thx
12:39<tt>wait
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12:40<tt>except 1) use /dev/path/to/your/partition instead of /dev/mapper/asimov--vol-crypto_test (skip lvcreate, and
12:40<tt>2) use mkswap instead of mkfs.*
12:40<tt>and I was going to add some more commentary / future suggestions, but you seem to be in a hurry. good luck.
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12:41<tt>skip making a mountpoint too
12:42<Someonz>tt I've already understand the first point, thx for the second ^^
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12:43<tt>the point I was going to get at is that the stuff (device mapper, dm-crypt encrypted containers, lvm) is all pluggable and modular
12:43<tt>and you can layer it different ways
12:43<tt>to different purposes
12:43<tt>lvm consumes block devices, and eventually presents block devices
12:44<Someonz>tt cryptsetup lucksFormat /dev/sda8: Unknown action
12:44<Someonz>Uhm wat
12:44<tt>dm-crypt consumes a block device, and presents a block device
12:44<tt>it's luks not lucks
12:44<Someonz>hahaha
12:44<tt>Linux Unified Key Setup, it's the format on-disk for encrypted containers and their keys
12:45<Someonz>tt yeah I was laughing at myself for miswriting it
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12:46<ilvik>Hi everyone!
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12:49<Someonz>tt Device cryptsetup luksOpen /dev/sda8 swap8: /dev/sda8 is not a valid LUKS device.
12:51<tt>well uh, did luksFormat work??
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12:52<Someonz>tt, yes
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12:53<ilvik>Fixing recursive fault but reboot is needed! it's a message on boot screen
12:53<tt>are you sure? that should be really easy/straightforward
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12:54<tt>did you swapoff like I said to?
12:55<ilvik>How can I solve this problem?
12:55<Someonz>tt yes
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12:56<tt>so it isn't reported by swapon -s
12:56<Someonz>tt, ah sorry I've miswrited something
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12:58<Someonz>tt one question
12:59<Someonz>I've written a password right?
12:59<Someonz>When I will reboot the system
12:59<Someonz>How it will decrypt my swap?
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12:59<Someonz>It will ask me the password at every boot?
13:00<tt>Yes.
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13:00<tt>Yes, that is kindof inevitable. If it doesn't need a password, it means everything needed to decrypt the drive is on the drive, which is kindof useless.
13:01<tt>It can skip mounting the device until you can login later and do it manually (and enter the password), if that's what you want.
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13:20<Someonz>tt what if the swap volume is encrypted with a random password generated at every boot?
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13:20<tt>ohhh
13:20<tt>I forgot about that, yeah that's actually an option
13:20<tt>only for swap and maybe /tmp, obviously
13:20<Someonz>tt, there's a way to do so?
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13:20<tt>yes
13:21<Someonz>yeah yeah
13:21<tt>there's an example in `man crypttab`
13:21<Someonz>tt can u tell me? this could be
13:21<Someonz>very
13:21<Someonz>pretty
13:21<Someonz>useful
13:22<Someonz>tt oh
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13:22<tt>Someonz: you probably want to do it this way: https://serverfault.com/a/472045
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13:24<tt>Someonz: any questions?
13:25<Someonz>tt i'm reading, it seems absolutely what I need
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13:26<tt>it's pretty easy
13:26<tt>basically you can skip the luksOpen step you did
13:26<tt>and just add the line to crypttab, with the appropriate options
13:26<tt>(random for keyfile, swap or mkswap option or whatever it is, are the main ones)
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13:27<tt>er luksFormat I meant, but luksOpen too
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13:31<tt>Someonz: I end up using the Arch documentation a lot, you may find https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Dm-crypt/Swap_encryption useful to refer to; obviously, watch out for differences compared to Debian. But this stuff is actually pretty universal across Linuxes, which is nice.
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13:48<Someonz>tt I've done, I will cross my finger
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13:48<tt>double-check you got correct devcice
13:49<tt>it's kinda dangerous, it formats a device every boot
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13:57<rockstorm>sorry, I was testing stuff
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14:53<Someonz>tt, I've read that by using that method I cannot hibernate
14:53<Someonz>So I've thougt
14:53<Someonz>What if...
14:53<Someonz>There is a keyfile
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14:54<Someonz>Generated from random
14:54<Someonz>And it will be keep when the pc is on
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14:55<Someonz>And then erased?
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15:22<somiaj>well do you have another evolution process runing? 'ps fax', kill it if you do
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15:40<tt>Someonz: that doesn't sound too useful to me
15:41<tt>Someonz: hibernate sucks anyway, use suspend
15:41<somiaj>I think provided you have a desktop locker it will be about as secure, though they would need a pass over a key to get into your running system.
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15:44<Maarten_>setting up a hosting server for local computer club. some want to have CloudLinux OS other prefer to have Debian... does their exist a CloudLinux like cldeploy script the turns a debian machine in ah shared hosting friendly server?
15:45<tt>somiaj: I dunno.. someone could power it off, dump the drive, have the encrypted RAM dump, and also the plaintext key to it?
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15:47<somiaj>so it is possible to poweroff a latop and dump the ram, I thought by defintion ram would be zeroed out once it lost power.
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15:49<tt>somiaj: when you hibernate, it's dumped to the swap partition
15:49<tt>which is encrypted, but he's saying also store the keyfile on-disk
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15:49<sparky4>somiaj: nopt!
15:50<sparky4>there is none
15:50<blast007>Maarten_: shared hosting of what? websites?
15:50<sparky4>no such process somiaj
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15:51<somiaj>tt: oh so you are saying the hibernation method might be less secure? I was thinking the suspend method, and someone dumping getting around a lock screen.
15:52<tt>yeah suspend is not ideal either
15:52<somiaj>sparky4: hmm, I don't know evoluation, but sometimes lock files or other stuff is used to determine if there is a running instance.
15:52<tt>from security pov
15:52<Maarten_>blast007: sorry, yes for websites.. i know Debian can do this, but i mean similar hosting improvements like in CloudLinux
15:52<somiaj>tt: so probably just best to shut it down and use neither.
15:52<tt>but if having one or the other is important enough to you to override that concern, then suspend already works, for hibernate you have to do some hacking at least.
15:52<tt>somiaj: definitely, yes.
15:53<tt>another (equally security-problematic) possible workaround is the To-Do item at the end of https://wiki.debian.org/Hibernation/Hibernate_Without_Swap_Partition
15:53<tt>"-- Create the swapfile at the moment of hibernation - and delete (optionally) after resuming."
15:53<tt>that is, an unencrypted swap partition.
15:53<somiaj>Maarten_: I think the major difference is you may have to do more configuartion on debian than using a distro that is prebuilt for this setup.
15:53<somiaj>Maarten_: and in this case, I would just learn to configure the server and admin it correctly, vs finding a script to do it.
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15:54<somiaj>Maarten_: but apache in debian with its sites-enabled and sites-avaiable directory and virtual hosts, this won't be to hard.
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15:56<blast007>you can also force SSH users into the "internal-sftp" server of OpenSSH, chrooted into their own specific directory
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16:02<Maarten_>somiaj: actually if i understand correctly cloudlinux is not a distribution but a deployment script for CentOS/RHEL.. could you have a look at https://www.cloudlinux.com/all-products/product-overview/cloudlinuxos/26-features ... any change of something similar existing for Debian?
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16:03<somiaj>Maarten_: I don't know of anything, there might be. I personally think it is worth just learning how to mange this.
16:05<Someonz>blast007, I think that this could be useful about chrooting and forcing ssh: https://debian-administration.org/article/94/How_to_restrict_users_to_SFTP_only_instead_of_SSH
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16:05<Someonz>*forcing sftp I mean
16:06<Maarten_>somiaj: oke, any tutorials or instructions on how to turn a normal hosting accounts into lightweight virtual private server accounts, where you can limit hardware resources per single account?
16:07<somiaj>Maarten_: I don't have any I know of, I would start with google. Though maybe one of these things could help
16:07<somiaj>!free whcp
16:07<dpkg>FOSS Web Hosting Control Panels include: <DTC>, <GNUPanel>, <ISPConfig> and <ispCP> Omega. Don't use <Webmin>. http://wiki.debian.org/HostingControlPanels
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16:10<Someonz>tt, In fact I've thought about overwriting the swap when the pc shuts down, but when they talked about encrypt partitions I've thought that maybe I can just encrypt the swap with a random key put into a file, overwrite the keyfile (so it will remain only in memory) and at hibernation recreating the file key, and finally, after shutdown overwriting the key
16:10<Maarten_>somiaj: of course i already tried google. the hosting panels will not do the trick, but i will try my luck somewhere else. thank though.
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16:11<Someonz>Since overwriting max 1mb of key needs minus disk usage than overwrite 2,3,4,5 g of swap every time
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16:13<Someonz>In this ipotetical solution the only moment where swap data are vulnerable is during the hibernation
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16:19<EmleyMoor>It seems that the "screen sharing" in Gnome on stretch is not working. When I try to access it from my phone I get an error that the authentication method is not supported. From my laptop, the client times out.
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16:24<EmleyMoor>Anything I can do to make it work?
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16:54<tt>Someonz: yeah, you seem to get how it works. but yeah IMO I wouldn't bother to put in the work for that because it *would* be vulnerable during hibernation so just not worth it. Maybe to someone, for some reason, but not many people, or me.
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16:54<tt>Someonz: how come you care about the swap so much but not the rest of the data on the disk?
16:55<tt>Someonz: oh also, you do know you can still suspend-to-ram while using encryption?
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16:59<Jonny>hello, does anyone know how to find out what GTK version i am using? thanks!
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17:02<Someonz>tt, Because the important data are already encrypted in other ways
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17:03<Someonz>tt, and btw, I know that I can also suspend-to-ram, but if the laptop goes off power suspending cannot help it ^^
17:03<Someonz>And I can also suspend using this method btw
17:04<tt>yes, I admitted you can certainly do it
17:05<tt>I was just trying to help, I wasn't attacking or anything.
17:05<ellie>EmleyMoor, network problem perhaps?
17:05<ellie>sorry I just saw your question
17:05<somiaj>Jonny: dpkg -l | grep gtk
17:06<Jonny>thanks somiaj
17:06<somiaj>Jonny: note you will have multiple libs, and may have both gtk2 and gtk3 installed.
17:06<Jonny>oh yeah i see
17:06<Jonny>Well thats ok then!
17:06<Jonny>thanks!
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17:07<Someonz>tt, I know, and I appreciate so much your help
17:07<Someonz>tt btw if you could help me in finding a solution for that it would be awesome
17:07<EmleyMoor>ellie: No, not a network problem.
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17:08<Someonz>I've thinked about obtain overwrite and generation of the key using a homemade service but maybe you have better ideas tt
17:08<Someonz>What do ya think?
17:09<tt>Someonz: it does not appear to be an already-supported option in the scripts etc. so you'd have to figure it out yourself.
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17:09<tt>but if you keep searching you may find someone that's done it, or most of it, etc.
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17:09<tt>if you're lucky.
17:09<Someonz>tt, where you are reading info about already supported options?
17:09<tt>Someonz: yeah, something along those lines
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17:10<tt>you could go at it a bunch of different ways, that sounds like maybe a reasonable one.
17:10<tt>Someonz: google.
17:10<Someonz>tt, other ways you have in mind? the more are the options the better
17:11<tt>there's a bunch of existing stuff, distro stuff etc., supporting hibernate, and encryption
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17:12<tt>I don't know much of the details, as I've not needed to deep-dive on it, but that might be where I'd start learning about, if I were interested in implementing that feature.
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17:24<jonny>i aint touching themes
17:24<jonny>its a bloody mess
17:24<jonny>GTK, appearences, window manager themes
17:24<jonny>blooody hell
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17:55<k-man>i'm trying to isntall debian on an old hp noteboot. after the boot menu, i select expert install, then it seems to change the graphics mode and i get a black screen
17:56<k-man>its a radeon mobility 4500 graphics chipset
17:56<k-man>i'm suspecting its not well suported in linux
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18:10<somiaj>k-man: how's the text based installer work, it is the same installer, just minus the mouse so you have to use an ncurses interface
18:10<somiaj>under advanced, there is still an option to use the text based installer
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18:12<k-man>somiaj, yes, i'm selecting that, but as soon as it boots, the screen goes black
18:12<k-man>like, the part after the grub boot
18:13<somiaj>what install image are you using, what medium and how did you copy the image to the medium
18:13<k-man>a usb stick (that I have used for many installs on other devices)
18:14<k-man>using the onoffical firmware included netinst iso. tested with firmware-9.3.0-amd64-netinst.iso and firmware-9.2.1-amd64-netinst.iso
18:14<k-man>copied using dd if=/home/jason/Downloads/firmware-9.3.0-amd64-netinst.iso of=/dev/sde bs=16M status=progress
18:15<k-man>on second thoughts, it could be the graphics card has an issue, as I was having issues with windows10 showing a black screen
18:15<tt>k-man: are any lines from the kernel/bootup process printed before it goes black?
18:15<k-man>tt, i don't think so. one line very briefly shows, its so fast I can't read it. i think it contained the letters PPE but not sure as its too fast
18:17<tt>somiaj: does the text installer do modesetting or boot splash screen or anything
18:17<tt>I thought it just stayed in default vga text mode
18:18<somiaj>tt: the kernel probably loads a kms driver, so maybe nomodeset=1 would help
18:18<somiaj>tt: good though.
18:18<k-man>ok, with slow mo camera, i can see it says "Probbing EDD (edd=off to disable)... then screen goes black
18:18<somiaj>so yea, the radeon driver could autoload no matter what and try to doe modesetting even in text mode
18:18<k-man>tt, oh, modesetting - yes, i think its doing some modesetting
18:18<somiaj>tt: I meant good thought.
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18:18<k-man>i'll try nomodeset
18:20<k-man>no difference with nomodeset
18:20<k-man>what is EDD?
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18:21<k-man>oh, Enhanced Disk Driv
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18:22<somiaj>I don't have any more ideas.
18:22<mixter_>hi! is it possible to keep an older version of the kernel to choose in grub in case of a problem? i see that all kernels are different versions of the same package, and the old one seems to be removed when upgrading.
18:23<k-man>somiaj, i'm thinking the bin might in this laptops future
18:23<somiaj>k-man: you might be able to find older version of debian installers that work, then just upgrade.
18:23<somiaj>mixter_: yes and no.
18:23<k-man>somiaj, interesting idea
18:24<somiaj>mixter_: in general in stable there is only one kernel, but usually this goes though a different subversions, and you can get one of those old kernels as backup and just keep it around.
18:24<somiaj>mixter_: so there will be only one 4.9.0-4 image, but you can also have a 4.9.0-3 image, which you could find on snapshot.debian.org
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18:25<mixter_>somiaj: ah! ok... so an older version through a different package then? would it be possible to tell apt to keep the older version of the same package?
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18:26<somiaj>not installed, but if you don't clean up downloads (though apt does this by default now, you have to turn this off) you can have the old .deb file in /var/cache/apt/archives
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18:27<somiaj>but you can't have two versions of the same package installed, and the kernel only changes package names if the version changes, which is usually major versions, but sometimes an abi change will force the debian devs to agument the debian package revions (the -3 vs -4 I mentioned)
18:28<mixter_>somiaj: ok. thank you! it's a little different since last time i cared a lot with the kernel. :-) then there were a new package for every new kernel. things have just worked since then, so i haven't had any reason to get messy
18:29<mixter_>somiaj: thanks! have a great evening
18:29<somiaj>mixter_: I think you mistaken. this has always been the case ins table
18:29<tt>well, but when you do install a new kernel, like in apt-get dist-upgrade, it doesn't uninstall old kernels
18:29<tt>in fact everything is already setup for it to keep a certain number of old kernels and autoclean the rest, isn't it?
18:29<somiaj>but if running testing, and the kerenl version keeps changing, so it seems like a new packge for each kernel
18:30<somiaj>yea autoremove by default will keep one old kernel around
18:30<somiaj>but only if the package name changes, as mentioned sometimes only the ersion changes and not the package, thus replacing the kernel.
18:31<tt>ugh is that really how it is now?
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18:33<somiaj>as far as I know, but the change from say 4.9.30 to 4.9.35 orwhatever shouldn't be that drastic.
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18:33<somiaj>The kernel team doesn't make a new package for each and every kernel update. Though with the recent bug in jessie, maybe they should.
18:33<mixter_>somiaj: my memory may fail me... but last time i was compiling kernels from the 2.0 series. nevermind! it's a lot more important to know how things work now :-)
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18:34<tt>also, is the evolution-already-running question, all the same person over the last few days, or multiple different people?
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18:35<somiaj>mixter_: I could also be mistaken. How dpkg handels this hasn't changed, it is a matter of if a new package name is made, or it is the same package name of a new version.
18:35<mixter_>somiaj: which recent bug? i got kernel panic on two physical servers tonight after an upgrade. they are up and running again now with the older version of the kernel, but that's why i'm asking :-)
18:35<somiaj>mixter_: the new kernel in jessie 8.10 has seemed to cause multiple kernel panics that I have heard of.
18:36<mixter_>somiaj: ok. that probably explains my problems too. then i hope for a newer release later on :-)
18:37<somiaj>there is a bug report you can follow on this, and it can be fixed by a kernel boot param
18:37<somiaj>seems to affect some dual socket cpu's, and disabling that feature makes the kernel work just fine
18:37<tt>ugh, so that did end up being in the point release. brutal.
18:37<mixter_>somiaj: thanks!
18:38<annadane>tt, same person i think, the wording was the same
18:38<somiaj>tt: yup, seen multiple people in here with the issue, one had their whole server farm taken down due to auto upgrades.
18:38<annadane>oh.
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18:38<tt>annadane: you and somiaj are answering about two different ones :)
18:38<annadane>oh. right, haha
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18:40<somiaj>mixter_: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=883938 -- the kernel param you can boot with to fix it is in the report
18:40<judd>Bug http://bugs.debian.org/883938 in src:linux (open): «linux-image-3.16.0-4-amd64: Kernel panic on boot after upgrading to debian 8.10 kernel 3.16.51»; severity: grave; opened: 2017-12-09; last modified: 2017-12-13.
18:41<mixter_>somiaj: thank you! i'm downgrading the kernels on the last physical machines now anyway, but i'll follow the bug!
18:41<somiaj>hmm, seem there was an upload today that should fix it, and the boot param is 'numa=off'
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18:42<somiaj>there is also a link to a fixed kernel, but seems it is now uploaded
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18:46<tt>somiaj: I think you are mistaken, the kernel version & revision is put into the package name for every one just for that reason, has been that way for a long time
18:46<tt>somiaj: I don't think you need to use snapshots even to install an old kernel, since they're separate packages they're still available separately on the repos
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18:47<tt>I'm rusty, but I just tested this and now have installed (and it DL'd from mirror)
18:47<somiaj>tt: http://snapshot.debian.org/binary/linux-image-4.9.0-4-amd64/
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18:47<tt>ii linux-image-4.9.0-3-amd64 4.9.30-2+deb9u5
18:47<tt>ii linux-image-4.9.0-4-amd64 4.9.65-3
18:47<tt>or, did I mis-understand you
18:48<somiaj>tt: that package has been the same name for kernels 4.9.47, 4.9.51, 4.9.65
18:48*annadane flips table
18:48<annadane>can we not just call the kernels the same and be done with it
18:48<tt>annadane: what?
18:48<annadane>nothing. :P
18:48<tt>somiaj: huh. dang :/
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18:48<somiaj>tt: there was a stretch update (I think 9.1 or 9.2) in which there was some small abi change so the package name went from linux-image-4.9.0-3-amd64 to linux-image-4.9.0-4-amd64, that one upgrade because of different package names thus had two kernels
18:48<tt>somiaj: TIL thank you
18:49<somiaj>but since that change, there have been multiple version updates of the same package name.
18:49<somiaj>so in stable (at least recentally) it is not common to change the package name, just provide an updated version.
18:49<tt>I was also thinking apt had special install-only handling for kernel packages, but actually I think I was remembering rpm instead
18:49<annadane>actually i notice with the net install, if i apt upgrade upon first booting into the system it goes from 4.9.0-3 to 4.9.0-4, so it's not automatically up to date in the install
18:50<somiaj>apt does, but only in terms of autoremove, apt won't remove at least one older kernel, which is why you have both the -3 and -4 version isntalled.
18:50<somiaj>annadane: yea, there was an abi change, and that is why the kernel team changed the package name, to signify a more significant change than just security/bugfixes.
18:50<tt>sorry to make you ELI5 me :)
18:50<somiaj>tt: no problem, it is confusing.
18:51<somiaj>(Which also made it so you had to dist-upgrade in stable, which you normally shouldn't have to do)
18:52<tt>it's been my habit to do it all the time
18:52<tt>like instead of upgrade
18:52<somiaj>in stable you shoudln't because upgrades should not require installing new packages (or removing old packages)
18:53<somiaj>except when the abi caused a new package to need to be installed
18:53<tt>well, then in theory it won't suggest doing it :)
18:54<tt>"dist-upgrade" was a bad name choice, safe-upgrade vs. full-upgrade is more logical
18:54<tt>unless the goal was really just to strongly emphasize the point of view you just laid out
18:55<somiaj>though safe-upgrade vs full is actually different than upgade vs dist-upgrade.
18:55<tt>oh?
18:55<somiaj>in aptitude safe just means no removale of packages (but it will install them), while in apt upgrade means do not install new packages or remove them
18:55<annadane>ugh.
18:55<tt>mmm, again I think aptitude gets it right
18:55<somiaj>well full-upgrade = dist-upgrade, but safe-upgrade (from aptitude) != upgrade
18:58<tt>thanks again though. you are good at this.
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18:59<somiaj>or I have just been here a long time
18:59<tt>maybe that's how you get good at it.
19:00<tt>I wish I had kept more notes over my sysadmin career.
19:00<annadane>that and actually reading and having patience
19:00<tt>I just, yeah, read man pages and documentation
19:00<ryouma>i am going to switch from aptitude to apt-get. i am using aptitude clean and aptitude safe-upgrade (with --verbose and --show-deps). what should i use for apt-get?
19:00<tt>how much you have to re-learn each time depends on how long since last time you did that thing
19:01<ryouma>i'm guessing apt-get clean; apt-get autoremove; apt-get upgrade
19:01<tt>ryouma: sure.
19:01<somiaj>ryouma: I would switch to 'apt' if you are switching
19:01<tt>ryouma: you can use whichever / switch between them freely, though.
19:01<annadane>ryouma, fantastic timing, we were literally just talking about this a minute ago
19:01<ryouma>apt-get --verbose-versions --show-upgraded ${@:-dist-upgrade}
19:01<ryouma>somiaj: for a script
19:01<ryouma>i never call directly
19:01<somiaj>ryouma: oh yea, for a script use apt-get
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19:02<somiaj>tt: note apt upgrade is like aptitudes, it is only apt-get that wont' install new packages when figureing out how to upgrade things (and this is sometimes nice)
19:02<tt>I see.
19:02<somiaj>tt: I personally like to apt-get upgrade, then apt-get dist-upgrade in testing/unstable, because it is nice to upgrade things that only require a version change and not new dependecies first
19:02<tt>sure.
19:03<tt>I like to use aptitude and see that it's going to be a clean upgrade, though.
19:03<tt>if it is, I don't really need to do that, and if it isn't, I definitely don't want to get half-way into it
19:03<somiaj>ryouma: only thing is you should autoremove after the upgrade
19:04<somiaj>ryouma: most likely the autoremove won't do to much before the upgrade
19:04<ryouma>ok
19:04<tt>ryouma: you also may not want to clean and autoremove that often. especially clean.
19:04<tt>the package shttp://snapshot.debian.org/binary/linux-image-4.9.0-4-amd64/
19:04<tt>grr, mispaste
19:04<tt>the packages in the cache can come in handy / save time compared to snapshots.debian.org, sometimes
19:04<somiaj>ryouma: it also sounds like you are trying to recreate the unattended-upgrades script, might look at that.
19:04<tt>or in the event you apt-get something that breaks your network ...
19:05<ryouma>no, it's manual
19:05<somiaj>tt: I perfer autoclean, that way /var/cache/apt/archive does have backup .debs just in case
19:05<tt>I think there is, ah ok
19:05<tt>thought there was default configuration for cache max size anyway
19:05<tt>but that works too
19:05<somiaj>but it only has one .deb backup, not years and years of multiple versions. But sometimes it is nice to be able to revert to the old packge if an upgrade fails
19:05<tt>perfect
19:06<somiaj>and yea, this is only important with apt-get, apt and aptitude by default I think clean after the install
19:06<somiaj>well apt does, not positive on aptitude
19:06<tt>wouldn't count on it
19:06<tt>but dunno for sure
19:06<tt>it can autoclean also, though
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19:07<tt>actually, possibly this, and also auto-autoremoving, should be / is an Apt configuration item, isn't it?
19:07<somiaj>it is
19:07<somiaj>and you can configure aptitude, apt and apt-get to behave differntly on many aspects too
19:07<ryouma> i don't want a deb for every package i have. i have cleaned before upgrading for years.
19:07<somiaj>hence why apt by default will remove the .deb after it intsalls and apt-get won't
19:08<somiaj>ryouma: I use to use sid, and having old packages is a life saver. In stable not so much
19:08<tt>aptitude autoclean does not sound like same behavior
19:09<ryouma>if i could keep just the old versions of packages i just downloaded, that would be perfect. but that would mean keeping every ackage.
19:09<somiaj>tt: they are the same, I just didn't describe it correctly, it is about the current version in the apt database (not what is installed)
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19:10<somiaj>I just think of it as it keeps the most current .deb around
19:10<tt>I'm thinking of trying to write a cookbook, which is mostly just a table of how to do <various tasks> with: apt, apt-{get,cache,etc.}, aptitude, rpm, yum or whatever they use now, w/ some of the tricks I know for things like deborphan etc.
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19:10<somiaj>though probably a better way to achive this is apt-cacher-ng. This method is really only nice if you have a single machine like I do.
19:11<ryouma>why keep the same deb that you just installed?
19:11<ryouma>somiaj:
19:11<somiaj>ryouma: next upgrade, if something breaks I can download to the version I know works.
19:11<annadane>well as far as old packages, just don't apt autoremove
19:12<somiaj>ryouma: so I have only the current version archived. I then upgrade, I test things, if antying is broken, I can downgrade to fix it while I wait for the bug to be fixed, if nothing is broken I run autoclean again, removing everything except the current version.
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19:12<somiaj>ryouma: again far more important in sid than stable
19:12<annadane>right and just don't autoclean either
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19:12<somiaj>yea only autoclean after I'm done testing and sure the upgrade worked
19:13<tt>which brings us back to "maybe you don't even want to clean that often" :)
19:13<tt>but I guess it feels good. I trust apt not to muck it up, though.
19:13<ryouma>somiaj: but that means you have every package you have installed
19:13<somiaj>ryouma: correct
19:14<rjsalts>hope snapshot.debian.org is there to pick up the pieces
19:14<tt>w/ yum I'm constantly cleaning, even as a closing step, because it has separate cache per user and I don't want to leave them out of sync
19:14<somiaj>ryouma: but when your xorg dies and you need to downgrade it, I would rather just look in /var/cache/apt/archives than goto snapshot.debian.org and download lots of packages.
19:14<somiaj>though as I said, this was becauwe I ran sid and nvidia and it wasn't that uncommon an upgrade took out xorg
19:15<ryouma>when i was ignorant of snapshot (i still am mostly) back in woody days, i tried downgrading xorg because it no longer worked with my card. took 3mo.
19:16<tt>I remember one painful downgrade to stable/testing after a failed half-upgrade to testing/unstable
19:16<ryouma>maybe i should keep doing clean before upgrading, but only do autoremove when i am trying to get rid of stuff
19:16<tt>before things were smart, lol. before autoremove existed!
19:17<somiaj>though with multiple machines, apt-cacher-ng is a better solution, because then you only have to download the .deb's once, and not for every machine.
19:17<tt>I've been meaning to do that for a while.
19:17<ryouma>will apt-get autoremove query me?
19:17<bremner>even for one machine with multiple chroots
19:18<somiaj>ryouma: yes, add a -y if you don't want it to
19:18<tt>somiaj: do you deal w/ deb repo hosting much?
19:18<tt>(either debians/mirrors, or private/3rd-party ones)
19:18<somiaj>tt: no, i'm really just a destkop hobbiest.
19:19<mixter_>thanks for the help! sleep tight.
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19:20<somiaj>bremner: yea I should really start doing that for my chroots, but pbuilder caches the .debs for me, and they are usually testing/unstable chroots that change the one time I use them ever 6 months.
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19:22<bremner>to each their own use case.
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19:41<ryouma>17:15 <ryouma> when i was ignorant of snapshot (i still am mostly) back in woody days, i tried downgrading xorg because it no longer worked with my card. took 3mo.'TA
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19:48<ryouma>user error there
19:48<ryouma>paste error*
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20:45<noobie12>I'm using Firefox ESR 52.5.0 (64-bit) in Debian Testing. System is up to date. Whenever I load media files in Firefox (audio or video) there are no controls displayed (volume, progress bar, etc)...
20:46<noobie12>By loading media files, I'm referring to loading an actual mp3 or mp4 file from a website.
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20:48<noobie12>Results are the same when loading directly from my hard drive. For video files, I see the video but there are no controls (even space bar does not work to pause video). For audio, it's just a black/gray rectangle.
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20:56<ivan>noobie12: maybe some plugin is taking over?
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21:01<noobie12>ivan: you sir are brilliant! Yes, it was a plugin. The plugin in question is Policeman in case anyone else has this problem. Oddly enough, this is a plugin that deals with blocking things from external sources other than the website you are visiting which it breaks down into categories like scrips, styles, frames, images, etc.
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21:13<noobie12>I have an entire text document filled with questions I intend to ask you guys so I will proceed with another one since it seems pretty quiet here.
21:15<noobie12>I use the following command to change the Mac address of my computer and it works, but does not "stick." If I check it shortly after (eg: a minute later), it usually reverts to hardware one.
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21:16<noobie12>ifconfig wls3 down && ifconfig wls3 hw ether XX:XX:XX:XX:XX:XX && ifconfig wls3 up
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21:24<noobie12>Question # 3: Is this a proper repository for Debian testing security updates: deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security/ testing/updates main contrib non-free ?
21:25<tomg>noobie12: yes, although testing security updates are not prompt
21:25<noobie12>I installed Debian Testing from USB (no network mirror) and it did not enable any online repositories.
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21:25<tomg>i think it should be http://security.debian.org/
21:26<tomg>without /debian-security/
21:26<noobie12>I use Synaptic package manager for most of my dealing with packages. Are these automatically updated with other system packages when reloading sources and then making all upgrades?
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21:29<noobie12>tomg: Interesting. This repository was in my sources listed but it was "commented out by installer because it failed to verify" (assuming from my lack of internet connection during install). I only changed "testing/updates" from the original which was "buster/updates"
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21:30<noobie12>and apt-get update returned no errors..
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21:35<kwk>i've
21:35<kwk>a bizarre networkmanager trouble
21:35<kwk>my dns didnt work and my vpn connections disappear from networkmanager menu
21:35<kwk>and i need REBOOT
21:35<kwk>for recover my dns and vpn
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21:57<ivan>yeah, networkmanager sometimes breaks horribly
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22:31<lee>hello ?
22:32<lee>hello ?
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22:38<annadane>sigh.
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22:40-!-treaki2 [~treaki@p4FDF64BE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #debian
22:40-!-treaki2 is "treaki" on #debian
22:40-!-phunyguy [~vault@h69-131-19-44.kgldga.dsl.dynamic.tds.net] has joined #debian
22:40-!-phunyguy is "Phuny Guy" on #debian
22:41-!-u0m3 [~u0m3@00026aa7.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:44-!-tobi_ [~tobi@p5DDF2443.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:46-!-treaki1 [~treaki@p4FDF63EF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:47-!-tomg [~tomg@98-159-244-127.agas1a-dynamic.dsl.sentex.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:53-!-gabriel1 [~gabriel1@host134-59-dynamic.37-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:55-!-f10__ [~flo@ip5b40034f.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:58-!-dvs [~hibbard@00012127.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
22:58-!-dvs is "realname" on #debian
23:01-!-annadane [~annadane@mtrlpq5302w-lp140-01-69-156-34-138.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
23:02-!-nowhere_man [~pierre@00012946.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
23:02-!-nowhere_man is "Pierre Thierry" on #concatenative #emacs #git #erights #lisp #debian-kde #debian
23:05-!-pavlushka [~pavlushka@00021abb.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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23:20-!-tomg [~tomg@98-159-244-127.agas1a-dynamic.dsl.sentex.ca] has joined #debian
23:20-!-tomg is "*Unknown*" on #moocows #debian-offtopic @#debian-support #debian-next #debian
23:23-!-yohnnyjoe [~yohnnyjoe@c-73-129-2-10.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:23-!-pavlushka [~pavlushka@00021abb.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
23:23-!-pavlushka is "pavlushka" on #linode #debian #oftc
23:26-!-bnw [~bnw@119.122.170.214] has joined #debian
23:26-!-bnw is "realname" on #debian-boot #dot #debian-zh #debian #debian-next
23:26-!-shawnlandden [~shawn@c-67-170-112-120.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:43-!-cef [~cef@ppp198-81.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Zoom!]
23:45-!-cef [~cef@ppp198-81.static.internode.on.net] has joined #debian
23:45-!-cef is "Cefiar" on #debian #debian-next
23:48-!-kajika [~corentin@fs276ecf71.tkyc517.ap.nuro.jp] has joined #debian
23:48-!-kajika is "kajika" on #debian-kde #debian
23:55-!-verti [~verti@176.10.99.196] has joined #debian
23:55-!-verti is "verti" on #privacytech #privacytools.io #debian #tor #oftc
23:59-!-poorman11 [~poorman11@S01060016b636b4b3.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #debian
23:59-!-poorman11 is "poorman11" on #debian
---Logclosed Fri Dec 15 00:00:06 2017