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#debian IRC Logs for 2017-12-26

---Logopened Tue Dec 26 00:00:21 2017
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00:39<spuranon_>i'm spoofing my server's MAC address on boot, but something seems to revert the changed mac. details: https://imgur.com/a/8PBjZ . any ideas?
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02:13<zhangqian>?
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02:39<Guest487>hello
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03:29<aik_>d
03:29<aik_>Hi all
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03:59<DusXMT>Hello there, I've recently upgraded all of my machines from jessie to stretch, and while everything's mostly working great, on my laptop, where I have the Mate desktop installed, the brightness control no longer works; the little window indicating the brightness level appears when I press the brightness up/down buttons, but it remains on full brightness
04:03<awal1>,v xbacklight
04:03<judd>Package: xbacklight on amd64 -- wheezy: 1.1.2-1; jessie: 1.2.1-1; buster: 1.2.1-1+b2; sid: 1.2.1-1+b2; stretch: 1.2.1-1+b2
04:04<awal1>DusXMT, check if ^ works
04:04<DusXMT>That's quite odd, I just killed mate-power-manager and launched it in strace to see what would happen if I tried the brightness buttons, and somehow it worked...
04:06<awal1>good for you
04:06<DusXMT>not really, since I don't know why it doesn't work when started normally, eg. via alt-f2
04:07<awal1>i suggested you xbacklight for check where is the issue
04:07<awal1>if xbacklight wworks, then something in mate pm is problematic
04:07<DusXMT>I doubt that'd be too useful; I think it's a broken configuration, if anything
04:07<awal1>well, i dont use mate, so...
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04:31<nyov>Hello people; my clamav-daemon dies consistently again, after every startup. Apparently it can't spawn a child (killed SIGCHLD), I don't know why. Strace is here: https://paste.debian.net/hidden/6e404f7a/ Any ideas or help?
04:31<nyov>This is new, but not that new. It runs on a vps though it should have enough mem, and it doesn't exit with any errors which bugs me a bit.
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04:37<DusXMT>"The value for the SHELL variable was not found the /etc/shells file -- This incident has been reported." Hmm, an odd thing for mate-power-manager to be complaining about, but let's see...
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04:39<DusXMT>Huh, now it says "Error executing command as another user: Not authorized -- This incident has been reported."
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04:55<tt>https://xkcd.com/838/
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04:57<DusXMT>tt: authlog :)
04:57<DusXMT>And it seems to be an issue with policykit
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04:58<DusXMT>Dec 26 10:56:41 dooshki-portabook pkexec[4451]: dusan: Error executing command as another user: Not authorized [USER=root] [TTY=unknown] [CWD=/home/dusan] [COMMAND=/usr/sbin/mate-power-backlight-helper --set-brightness 1484]
04:58<somiaj>yea lots of desktops these days use logind + policykit (via systemd) to allow non root users to do certain thigns as root.
04:59<somiaj>I think this is partly done over dbus, in most cases this should just work, but maybe you have some issue with either dbus or policykit not recoginizing your user as a local user to evlate privlages to mess with the backlight in this case
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05:14<DusXMT>Okay, so if I do _not_ have /bin/ksh (as opposed to /bin/mksh) in /etc/shells, and I run the power manager with /bin/ksh -c 'unset SHELL; mate-power-manager' from the startup item, it works just fine...
05:15<DusXMT>(if I have it in /etc/shells, and/or if I use /bin/mksh as my shell, it gives me the "not authorized" error...)
05:16<DusXMT>Relying on the user's environment variables for authentication is a little bizzare though, the user can lie...
05:16<somiaj>I think it relys on more than that to determine if your a 'local user', but I'm not really sure on the details, I don't really use policykit on mysetup, still do things the old fashion way, as root.
05:17<DusXMT>Yeah, that's probably a wiser approach for a more security-critical system (having to go through proper authentication to do things as root, instead of having someone do things as root for you)
05:24<somiaj>well my user has full sudo privlages, it is just another way to control privlage escilation.
05:24<somiaj>problem is many users want automatic things that don't require configuration or typing, and there really wans't a nice way to make a button that requires escilation unless it was more automatic.
05:24<somiaj>which is where policykit comes into play
05:25<DusXMT>Yeah, convenience vs security, like always
05:25<DusXMT>(and yeah, sudo can mostly be used for the same thing with the rules, I prefer not to use sudo)
05:25<somiaj>or just know your root password, su -, worked fine for years and still does.
05:26<DusXMT>Well, at least I'm glad my backlight control works now :)
05:27<DusXMT>(reading documents in the dark on full brightness is quite straining)
05:27<somiaj>also with xorg moving to not using setuid by default, means more permsisions need to be properly configured.
05:28<somiaj>DusXMT: I think y ou can use xrandr as a normal user, but the brigntess via xrandr is not the samething as lower the backlight of the hardware
05:29<somiaj>I belive I just bound xrandr commands to my brightness buttons, achives the same affect, minus powersaving you may get from controling the actual hardware backlight.
05:29*DusXMT uses the battery as a UPS, more or less; this lappy has a hard drive, so it's not a good idea to operate it on the go
05:33<spuranon_>if anyone cares about my earlier issue with MAC address randomly changing, i've solved it. it seems that wifi scans, by default, cause the mac to reset to a random value for 'privacy' issues
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05:33<spuranon_>which can of course be disabled :D
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05:34<DusXMT>Now I wonder, is there a way to check for residual config files that aren't present on newer systems? eg. I found a file in /etc/udev/rules.d/ that prevented the new deterministic network names from coming into use
05:35<Guest493>Hi
05:35<Guest493>how install customize gnome desktop?
05:35<Guest493>How to install fonts?
05:35<Guest493>windows fonts
05:35<somiaj>DusXMT: debconf does a good job about this when upgrading, it should rmove any old config files.
05:35<somiaj>DusXMT: that one is kept around because it is important, without it your network maynot come up next boot after an upgrade.
05:36<DusXMT>somiaj: Indeed, but now they're gone :)
05:36<Guest493>I can't hide windows
05:36<Guest493>there only one cross
05:36<somiaj>DusXMT: also it is considered a bug in a package to leave residual config files around, so this is thought about.
05:37<somiaj>DusXMT: sure, but if your configs are all talking about eth0 in /etc/network/interfaces and you took this config away on the upgrade, your network would nto come up because the interface changed its name, so it was best to keep it around.
05:37<somiaj>DusXMT: the difference is it isn't automatically created on new isntalls.
05:37<DusXMT>somiaj: Of course, by "now they're gone" I meant that I updated the network-related configs
05:38<DusXMT>I just wondered if there were other similar files that were lurking around
05:38<somiaj>Guest493: in the contrib repo (not default on debian) there is a package ttf-mscorefonts-installer that will download them from ms and install them
05:38<somiaj>DusXMT: there shouldn't be, as I said for the most part packages will clean this stuff up on upgrades.
05:38<DusXMT>Okay :)
05:38<somiaj>unless in rarce cases it is determined cleaning it up could cause a problem.
05:38<Guest493>somiaj, what does it means?
05:38<somiaj>!contrib
05:38<dpkg>[contrib] Debian packages that contain <DFSG>-compliant software, but have dependencies not in main (possibly packaged for Debian in non-free). To get contrib packages, add lines like "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ [stretch|buster|sid] main contrib" to your /etc/apt/sources.list, then «aptitude update». Also ask me about <non-free>, <contrib list>.
05:39<Guest493>contrib repo?
05:39<Guest493>what is it?
05:39<somiaj>Guest493: you may have to add 'contrib' to your sources.list, and then install the package ttf-mscorefonts-installer
05:39<Guest493>how add contrib? where my sources.list?
05:39<Guest493>I'm new in linux
05:39<somiaj>Guest493: https://www.debian.org/intro/free -- debian main only includes DFSG free software. Microsofts fonts are not free in the DFSG sense, so you have to get them outisde of debian main
05:40<Guest493>recent have installed
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05:40<somiaj>Guest493: modify the file /etc/apt/sources.list, you should see a bunch of deb <webaddress> stretch main lines
05:40<somiaj>Guest493: at the end of each line instead of just having 'main', put 'main contrib'. If you also want access to non-free software put 'main contrib non-free'
05:40<somiaj>after you edit the file, run apt update, then you will have access to non-free software
05:42<Guest493>there 6 web addresses
05:43<somiaj>Guest493: if you want you can paste your sources.list at paste.debian.net
05:44<Guest493>if I can
05:45<somiaj>You should really only have three lines, but if you have deb and deb-src lines this can be 6
05:46<Guest493>http://paste.debian.net/1002423/
05:46<Guest493>6 lines
05:46<Guest493>how coppy in command line? ctr+c doesn't work
05:48<Guest493>line has been added
05:48<somiaj>Guest493: do you also want access to non-free software?
05:48<Guest493>bash: aptitude: command not found
05:48<Guest493>yes
05:49<somiaj>Guest493: if using a terminal (like xterm) you can just select the text, it is automatically coppied, though you may have to use the middle button to paste it
05:49<Guest493>I'll install windows software
05:49<Guest493>there what I need have linux copy
05:49<somiaj>Guest493: aptitude is not installed by default on stretch, you can install it with 'apt install aptitude' or just use apt instead of aptitude.
05:49<Guest493>teamviewr, skype, sublime 3
05:49<Guest493>why not apt-get?
05:49<Guest493>apt-get is better?
05:50<DusXMT>Guest493: apt is a front-end to the apt- tools
05:50<DusXMT>It combines their functionality into one, and provides some bells and whistles
05:51<somiaj>Guest493: apt is a newer tool that is similar to apt-get. The main difference is apt-get is quite complex and is used in scripts so it cannot change how it does things. apt is more inteded for a user, won't have a stable abi, provides nicer output, stuff apt-get cannot do because apt-get is tied to important scripts
05:51<somiaj>Guest493: http://paste.debian.net/1002424/ -- change your sources.list to that, see how I appeneded 'contrib non-free' to the end of the lines, after that run apt update, and you now have access to non-free software like ttf-mscorefonts-installer
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05:53<Guest493>there is error? http://paste.debian.net/1002425/
05:53<Guest493>I did aptitude update
05:53<Guest493>its difficult, I need screenshoter
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05:57<Guest493>well,
05:57<Guest493>What at first I should do after install debian?
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05:57<Guest493>1 install windows fonts
05:57<Guest493>2 customize gnome
05:57<Guest493>install needed app
05:58<Guest493>what else?
05:58<DusXMT>Use the system :)
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05:58<Guest493>I need list what to do at firs
05:58<DusXMT>And the issue is that you're using ubuntu repositories in your sources.list
05:58<DusXMT>That can cause all sorts of issues
05:58<Guest493>how they are installed there?
05:59<Guest493>I forgot how I added it
05:59<Guest493>I was installing php5
05:59<DusXMT>E: The repository 'http://ppa.launchpad.net/ondrej/php/ubuntu bionic Release' does not have a Release file.
05:59<Guest493>and probably added them?
05:59<somiaj>!don't break debian
05:59<dpkg>i guess dont break debian is https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian
05:59<somiaj>Guest493: please read that wiki link, it will save you some future headache
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05:59<Guest493>debian has php5?
05:59<mingyang>no
06:00<mingyang>debian8 has
06:00<somiaj>Guest493: second you have some how isntalled software for ubuntu on your system, this is very bad, and you should not do this. Do you have any files in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/
06:00<tt>"That can cause all sorts of issues" an understatement
06:00<somiaj>Guest493: stretch only has php7, jessie which is still supported has php5
06:02<mingyang>somiaj
06:03<mingyang>somiaj
06:04<Guest493>somiaj, php5
06:04<Guest493>php7 works badly
06:05<Guest493>not support all wp plugins, I need php5
06:05<somiaj>Guest493: then maybe jessie is a better choice for you. oldstable will be supported by the lts team for a few more years.
06:05<Guest493>I installed php5 using instruction for ubuntu
06:05<Guest493>somiaj, probably it added that repositories?
06:06<somiaj>Guest493: no you'll have to reinstall jessie from scratch, you can't just add jessie to the repos. Again read the don't break debian link
06:06<somiaj>Guest493: really read that link, don't install random stuff from ubuntu, you'll break things.
06:06<Guest493>and I can only use debian repos?
06:07<Guest493>I used little ubuntu there I can use any repos?
06:07<Guest493>I've been using )
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06:07<Guest493>why other repos can broken my system in debian and not in ubuntu? it's equal OS?
06:07<somiaj>Guest493: read that link. You can only use repos specificlly built for the version of debian you are running (not ubuntu). Mixing things not made for the system you are running is a good way to mix things.
06:08<somiaj>Guest493: no they are not, debian and ubuntu are quite different espically at the core and in terms of policy.
06:08<Guest493>core equal?
06:09<DusXMT>Also, installing random software from the internet is a bad idea; one of the strengths of GNU/Linux is the fact that all of the software is provided by a trusted repository, by a large group of maintainers who hold their reputation at stake if they put malicious software into the repository, not to mention that by the time it would reach stable it would've been without a doubt found
06:09<Guest493>what does mean core? kernel they have equal and will work the same app as well?
06:09<somiaj>Guest493: ubuntu due to having far less packages than debian relys a lot more on thrid party ppa's to provide software for it. Debian tries to provide all software from a single repo, the debian repo.
06:09<somiaj>Guest493: the core libaries, where fiels are put, how things are orginized, please read that link, I don't want repeate everything on it.
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06:10<Guest493>somiaj, I thought I can use all apps in internet
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06:11<Guest493>seems probably better use ubuntu?
06:11<Guest493>there more possibilities...
06:11<DusXMT>Guest493: If you have no interest in robustness and reliability :)
06:12<DusXMT>Then without a doubt
06:12<Guest493>I need server and OS for developing wordpress sites
06:12<tt>Use what you like. But ubuntu is not in a different position. You'll have equal issues using Debian repos on Ubuntu. Read the link.
06:12<somiaj>Guest493: ubuntu has the same issue, don't expect to install any random .deb on the internet in ubuntu and have it work. Though there are more third party ppa's that create software specifcally for ubuntu, on the other hand, debian provides way more packages than ubuntu that are well tested and known to work together.
06:12<Guest493>on windows WAMP works very slow, 5 - 10 seconds load page, debian on VMware does it faster
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06:13<somiaj>Guest493: have you read that link yet?
06:13<DusXMT>https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian -- this one
06:13<Guest493>no, I've looked there
06:14<Guest493>difficult fast to read in English
06:14<Guest493>I can only slow for understanding
06:14<DusXMT>aww, that broken mug picture is sad :(
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06:14<somiaj>Guest493: that is fine, take your time, if you choose to use debian, understanding you can't just mix random stuff and expect your system to work as designed is important (espically if you want a stable/secure server running php5)
06:15<somiaj>Guest493: note this is also the same for ubuntu, but as I said there are more thrid party people producing packages (of questionable quality) for ubuntu.
06:15<Guest493>well, I installed and will use all repose, and will see how it works
06:15<somiaj>Guest493: packages in debian are well tested and vetted, and that is partly why many choose debian.
06:16<Guest493>somiaj, I need only LAMP and node.js, and a few good linux apps such like screenshoret, translator, all others, I'll use windows apps
06:17<Guest493>skype, teamvier, sublime3,
06:17<Guest493>all apps has linux copy
06:17<Guest493>and their own repositories
06:17<Guest493>I've already researched it
06:17<Guest493>Tor browser for example
06:17<c0Met>hi everyone
06:18<c0Met>I'm new here
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06:18<somiaj>Guest493: if you choose to mix things and not follow advise of that link, best case scenerio, it works and you just get no support here and us not supporting you. Worse case scenerio, your system breaks, or has security holes, etc.
06:18<starry>nice to meet you all
06:18<Guest493>all what I have in windows I can easy install in linux
06:18<somiaj>Guest493: but enough of this, we have tried to point you to the proper way to use debian, at this point you almost seem like you are here to troll us.
06:18<DusXMT>starry: Greetings :)
06:19<somiaj>Guest493: for example that error you pated was due to you mixign things, that wouldn'th ave happened if you stuck to only debian sources.
06:19<Guest493>somiaj, I want to use it like usual desktop OS
06:19<Guest493>somiaj, it's not suited for this?
06:19<starry>thanks DusXMT
06:19<somiaj>Guest493: I use debian as my desktop os just fine.
06:20*DusXMT uses 3 different flavors of debian as a "usual desktop OS", with Mate, XFCE, and IceWM (all on different computers), and all with debian's repositories :)
06:20<starry>I'm on buster now
06:20<Guest493>I thought debian is like ubuntu can install everything, and my friend say all linuxes are equal, only differ desktop
06:20<Guest493>can use any
06:20<somiaj>Guest493: but note, you need to make a choice of which linux distro suits your needs and then stick whith that. It could be ubuntu suits your needs better, and you are free to use it, we just won't support it.
06:20<DusXMT>Guest493: Your friend lies
06:21<somiaj>Guest493: they have similar software, but they are not equal, there are differences between the distros, which is why there are different distros. Differences range from policy to the packages and versions that are avilable for the distro.
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06:21<somiaj>starry: if looking for buster support, #debian-next is the prefered channel.
06:21<Guest493>somiaj, yes, ubuntu has big community, and in google many articles dedicated ubuntu
06:21<starry>thanks for your information somiaj
06:21<Guest493>easy can get support, debian has less articles
06:21<somiaj>Guest493: Do you think you can install a windows .exe on ubuntu?
06:21<DusXMT>Guest493: Perpahs the Ubuntu family of distros are all the same with a different desktop (eg' xubuntu, edubuntu, lubuntu, etc.), but if you eg. compare Ubuntu with eg. Gentoo or Arch or Fedora, the system is completely different
06:21<Guest493>no
06:22<somiaj>Guest493: do you expect to be able to install a macosX package on windows?
06:22<starry>what torrent is good on debian ?
06:22<DusXMT>But Gentoo, Arch, Fedora, Ubuntu and Debian can all have the same desktop :)
06:22<Guest493>somiaj, only if apps has linux copy, wine works bad, better don't install it
06:22<DusXMT>So it's exactly the other way around than what your friend said
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06:23<Guest493>somiaj, no, I mean to install if Apps has made for linux too
06:23<somiaj>Guest493: anyways, think of it that way, in the linux world there is a lot more overlap due to open source and building on the shoulders of giants, but really don't expect that something made for ubuntu can just be installed on debian or visa versa (turns out it maybe possible, but really there are better ways to do stuff like this, compile it from source code)
06:23<Guest493>somiaj, all apps that I'm using has linux copy
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06:23<somiaj>Guest493: this is a common issue that people new to debian (and debian based distros) should learn, the precompiled binaries are built for a very speciifc system and may not work on a similar system.
06:24<Guest493>somiaj, ok I understood, and this is rarely when it can broken system?
06:26<somiaj>Guest493: I see people with broken systems in here all the time due to mixing, which usually results in us suggesting they backup and reinstall
06:26<somiaj>sure some get away with this, even for years until it bites them.
06:26<Guest493>I used ubuntu one and installed many apps from differ repos and everything was worked well
06:26<somiaj>the more you know about linux, the longer you maybe able to get away with it, but there are far better ways to get software into debian that isn't provided by the repos than download it from ubuntu.
06:26<Guest493>somiaj, see I can use ubuntu too and I'll know about linux more?
06:27<somiaj>Guest493: as I said, how ubuntu is setup (much less packages than debian), it has a third party set of people provided software specifically for ubuntu.
06:27<Guest493>as well as I'll use debian?
06:27<somiaj>Guest493: correct, you can have multiple vms, with different distros to figure out which one suites your needs, or have them used for different purposes.
06:28<somiaj>Guest493: just if you mix we won't support you and we only support #debian -- also think that part of what you get when choosinga distro is the support community. Debian has a good support community to help users, but we only support users using debian (and not mixing)
06:28<somiaj>we don't support any based off of debian distros.
06:28<Guest493>somiaj, ok, you think that apps that I installed form ppa I installed from repos specially made for ubuntu and thus it works? If I do this for debian it won't work well?
06:28<somiaj>Guest493: correct, ppa apps are designed for ubuntu, so if using ubuntu they will work.
06:28<Guest493>somiaj, I've understood your main message
06:29<Guest493>somiaj, it's not good
06:29<somiaj>Guest493: debian to me has a much higher quality of testing and packages than ppa's will (note ubuntu's core is high quality, but the ppa's not so mcuh)
06:29<Guest493>better use probably ubuntu, it will give more possibilities for desktop and for to correct issues...
06:29<somiaj>debian's packages are well tested and known to work well together.
06:30<DusXMT>Also, the ppa's are maintained by random people (the short means "personal package archive"), there's no one preventing those people from putting malware into the packages
06:30<somiaj>Guest493: you have to make that choice of what works best for you.
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06:30<Guest493>somiaj, yes well tested, but if I have toroubles and I google I'will find only instructions for ubuntu that will works
06:30<DusXMT>something as simple as setting the setuid bit on a binary file can cause it to have full, unlimited access over your system
06:31<DusXMT>even when ran as a normal user
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06:33<somiaj>Guest493: this depends, but yes a lot of stuff rom ubuntu, even archlinux or gentoo's wiki can work in debian. But sometimes it needs to be edited
06:33<somiaj>alos there is a lot of bad advise on the internet on using debian, that don't break debian link boils down thigns you sould look for.
06:34<somiaj>Guest493: I use ubunuts forms and guides a lot, but I also have to sometimes adjust things. It really depends. For example apache, really outside of the fact you should install this form our distros repos, configuring ti wont' matter if you are ubuntu or debian.
06:35<Guest493>yes, apache there equal
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06:36<Guest493>and see I saw many apps for example sublime3 how to install and there linux destr and there for both ubuntu and debian the same repos, it means you are judge very strict saying it can break my OS?
06:36<Guest493>probaly can in minority cases
06:36<somiaj>if you use third party packages you are at the mercy of the person who built them to ensure they work well with debian.
06:36<somiaj>in many cases if the software packages are good enough quality to be in debian, they are already in debian.
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06:37<somiaj>not all cases, and there are decent ways to get things installed in debian that is not provided by the repo, this is all mentioned in that link
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06:38<Guest493>somiaj, see https://www.sublimetext.com/docs/3/linux_repositories.html
06:39<Guest493>apt ubuntu debian
06:39<Guest493>and anywhere for linux they are both
06:39<Guest493>node.js also will work for both
06:39<Guest493>it's maybe exception when it won't
06:40<somiaj>Guest493: it is possible to make a .deb that can work in both debian and ubuntu, but thrid parties do this to varring success. And sometimes what they do is make a ubuntu deb and pretend it works in debian without testing it.
06:40<somiaj>but when using third party software, you are dont' hav the debian team testing them to ensure it works well in debian, so it really dependson the software
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06:41<somiaj>(more subtatlly you can mix packages if you know exactly what a package does, what depends it has and if it fits in the debian system, but this is a lot harder to explain to new users than don't mix)
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06:41<somiaj>in most cases it is better to build your own packages or compile from source code
06:41<somiaj>(for things that are not in debian)
06:42*DusXMT compiles the newest firefox browser, for example, since it needs some stuff that isn't in debian's stable repository
06:42<somiaj>for example, https://wiki.debian.org/CreatePackageFromPPA, tells you how to try to build a package form a PPA that would be compadable with debian -- note this won't work for all ppa's as they build may not work in debian.
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06:43<Guest493>well, I'll try and then will see, just I need not much, LAMP, install windows apps that has copy for debian, and customize desktop
06:43<Guest493>I think all will work
06:43<somiaj>Guest493: but when learning, it is best to get use to how debian works and how to do thigns the 'debian way', and so I would try to stick only to debian software as much as possible, as you become a more advanced user, you can do more
06:43<somiaj>Guest493: the debian repos will provide what you need for LAMP. If you need php5 (not 7) use jessie, not stretch.
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06:44<DusXMT>Guest493: Personally, I'd cut out the middle step. For text editing, there are better options than sublime, imho
06:44<DusXMT>But that's just me
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06:45<DusXMT>And I don't see why you'd need skype in a virtual machine -- unless you're trying to insulate it from your main system ;)
06:45<somiaj>Guest493: it is worth seeing why we suggest these thigns and try to understand the advantages if you really want to see why people like debian.
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06:45<somiaj>(frozen systems that are well tested have lots of advantages, but they also have disavatnages)
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06:46<DusXMT>One of the biggest advantages is that you set it up once, and it works for years; that's the most valuable advantage to me
06:46<somiaj>and if you set it up again it works the same.
06:47<Guest493>DusXMT, I'll install dual boot
06:47<Guest493>two OS
06:47<Guest493>in VM just for test
06:48<somiaj>vms are another option to test things, pick the one you like the best, maybe ubuntu as your desktop as you find it more to your style, then get use to debian, you may find after expreince you'll start to see why we suggest the thigns we do
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06:58<Guest493>somiaj, see I used this https://stackoverflow.com/questions/46378017/install-php5-6-in-debian-9
06:58<Guest493>it works with debian-9
06:59<Guest493>use jessie instead it means use debian-8?
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06:59<somiaj>Guest493: That should work. I don't know this sury.org packages, so if you have issues with them you need to reports bugs to surey, not debian.
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07:00<somiaj>Guest493: yes, jessie is debian-8. If you are using this on a desktop, that method seems sane to me. Just watch what thrid party repos install, if they start installing a lot of libs, try to see if the ones from debian will work.
07:01<Guest493>ok, will do soon, install dual boot, 20 GB probably enough for debian
07:01<Guest493>or 30
07:03<somiaj>Guest493: another thing you could do is run a small jessie vm inside of debian (linux has good virtualization for linux guests), and install jessie there, and just run your LAMP server on a vm, and not on your main desktop.
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07:04<Guest493>would be good make common folder assasible from windows
07:04<somiaj>But I thought you were making a server, for a desktop, those sury.org packages shoudl be fine if they are indeed made for debian 9.
07:05<somiaj>Guest493: the package ntfs-3g will allow you to read and write to ntfs partitions, (though I would stick to that, let windows do permisions/etc on them).
07:05<somiaj>you could also make a vfat partition, and share data over that (or windows does have ext? drivers)
07:05<Guest493>I use vmware
07:06<Guest493>in real time edit file using windows
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07:06<Guest493>I can use sftp
07:06<Guest493>and connect to my server
07:07<Guest493>sites from my debian on vMware is accessible from windows browser
07:07<Guest493>are accessible*
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08:10<Maddox>hi
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10:18<jhutchins>This is true of RPM packages as well, it's often possible to install them on a distribution other than the one they were built for,
10:19<jhutchins>What tends to happen though is that the versioning is off from the native distro, and as updates trickle through, your system starts to diverge from the official structure, until eventually you have unresolvable differences and end up having to do a clean install.
10:20<jhutchins>Woof, stuck in the scrollback again, sorry.
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10:28<hackerking>hiiiii
10:28<hackerking>hey what do you
10:28<hackerking>weyr
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11:12<dbb>hi #debian -- I logged into the udd-mirror at MIT yesterday .. just for a few minutes.. (I use postgres a lot).. and I saw 'ubuntu-things' *in* the udd ..
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11:12<dbb>does that mean that the prohibition from saying the word "ubuntu" here is off ?
11:13<dbb>in particular, our tech lead has a PPA which is Launchpad, with 150 or so packages.. they do get over to Debian but not right away.. I am always returning to that PPA every once in a while.. so it is a source of questions
11:14-!-Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:14<dbb>more details on that PPA by request
11:18<tda>what are the questions? !ask
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11:19<dbb>ok thx
11:21<dbb>I am thinking about taking the VCS repo from the deb, and git cloning every one into our experimental git setup.. not ready to start
11:21<dbb>in other words, for every package in that PPA, retrieve the line that shows the VCS repo, and for the git ones, clone them..
11:22<dbb>.. just to build a data set.. of course it is optional.. but I have some further experiements in the back of my head
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11:36<jhutchins>dbb: Software that has good quality and is adequately tested usually ends up in the official repos. PPAs tend to have low-quality un-tested software.
11:37<dbb>thx for the confidence there jhutchins , but we have been building this set for several years.. it is are reference in the field
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11:43<dbb>I noticed recently that there is a python package for apt.. I have tried it yet
11:43<dbb>s/have/have not/
11:44<jhutchins>dbb: Have you considered an RFP?
11:44<dbb>?
11:46<dbb>oh perhaps this .. https://wiki.debian.org/RFP
11:47<dbb>anyway, this is the destination .. it has been for a while now.. http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/pkg-grass-devel/2017-December/thread.html
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11:52<tda>jhutchins: PPAs tend to have new versions of the software that may be ahead of what is in the repos, and the package maintainer is not updating for whatever reason. see tor, virtualbox, handbrake, etc...
11:52<EmleyMoor>I've got a Windows app that won't install using wine or wine-development because the installer detects them as XP. Is there a way round itL
11:52<EmleyMoor>?
11:53<jhutchins>EmleyMoor: Find a native app that does the job.
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11:55<EmleyMoor>jhutchins: Indeed. I can play the audio and video parts with vlc, but I can't do anything with GPS or sensor data
11:55<tda>EmleyMoor: i thought there was a setting in the config ui, but it's been a long time since ive used wine. try asking in their channel
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12:02<jhutchins>EmleyMoor: Also winehq has a database of what works with which version.
12:03<jhutchins>EmleyMoor: There are a number of Linux programs that will work with GPS data, not sure what other sensors you have but it's usually possible to get something to read them.
12:03-!-gabriel1 [~gabriel1@host172-27-dynamic.3-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #debian
12:03-!-gabriel1 is "Gab" on #ubuntu #tor #debian-it #debian
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12:04<EmleyMoor>jhutchins: From a .mov file?
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12:05-!-annadane is "realname" on #tor-project #tor-offtopic #tor #privacytech #debian-www #debian-offtopic #debian-next #debian-mentors #debian-kde #debian-bugs #debian-apt #debian
12:05<mnuhmnuh>EmleyMoor: i was going to snark you with write perl one-liner to conv. the data files; then i see libgdal-perl and python-gdal. :-)
12:05<tt>EmleyMoor: it's hard to make good suggestions when you never say what you're actually doing.
12:06<EmleyMoor>tt: Handling dashcam recordings
12:06<mnuhmnuh>"... Windows app that won't install using wine ..."
12:07<mnuhmnuh>why? only thing that can read the data files.
12:07<jelly>EmleyMoor, I assume you tried to set windows version for the particular .exe using winecfg?
12:07<EmleyMoor>If I just want the video, vlc is fine
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12:08<jelly>wine's always been a hit and miss; if you want 100% functionality for a specific app you will have to work with wine people to debug it and see which APIs fail
12:09<yukang>my IE don't watch TV
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12:11<EmleyMoor>Ah... set it to Windows 7 and this time it's installing .NET!
12:11<mnuhmnuh>yukang: "IE"?
12:11<yukang>e
12:12<yukang>my english is low
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12:13<yukang>more words,I don't know
12:13<mnuhmnuh>mine too. there may be a (eg.) #debian-?? where ?? == your country or language. #debian-ru ...
12:14<yukang>so,I think our chat is very diffcult
12:15<yukang>china
12:15<annadane>!zh
12:15<dpkg>??????????????? Debian ???????????????? irc.debian.org ? irc.oftc.net ??? #dot ???????????????????????????? IRC ??????????????????????????????????
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12:19<EmleyMoor>Hmmm... .NET is not completing, it seems
12:19<yukang>nice too meet you
12:19<yukang>good bye
12:20<tda>EmleyMoor: in wine, i believe you need to use mono
12:22<EmleyMoor>tda: Any more concrete hints would be appreciated but I am investigating
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12:25-!-amacater is "Andrew M.A. Cater" on #debian-hams #debian-arm #debian-efi #debian
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12:41<mnuhmnuh>#debian-cn :-)
12:41<mnuhmnuh>!cn
12:41<dpkg>??????????????? Debian ???????????????? irc.debian.org ? irc.oftc.net ??? #dot ???????????????????????????? IRC ??????????????????????????????????
12:41<annadane>i don't know why it appears to me as ?????? - it was working fine yesterday
12:42<tt>it seems to be actual question marks, unless my client translated it to them
12:42<amacater>change of character set?
12:42<mnuhmnuh>dpkg falls over from time to time. needs reboot i guess.
12:42<dpkg>mnuhmnuh: I'm not sure, is it larger than a breadbox?
12:43<mnuhmnuh>i see q. marks here too in irssi uxterm utf-8
12:45<mnuhmnuh>!en
12:45<dpkg>The language of #debian is English. We will do our best to help you regardless of your level of English but you might be more comfortable asking for help in your own language. Ask me about your language code for more information, for example /msg dpkg br ; /msg dpkg pt ; /msg dpkg es ; /msg dpkg fr ; /msg dpkg de
12:45-!-hele_ [~hele@a88-115-23-39.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
12:45<dbb>'?' here in webchat
12:45<annadane>not sure who to contact for dpkg maintenance
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12:47<mnuhmnuh>it's not like the sky's falling either.
12:47<mnuhmnuh>irritant maybe. meh.
12:49<annadane>well the issue is that if nobody contacts anybody it never gets fixed
12:49<annadane>and it's unfair to chinese speaking people
12:49<tuxampol>.
12:49<mnuhmnuh>acording to freenode, there's a #debian-cn on oftc. :-)
12:49<annadane>in any case they've long since left
12:50<dbb>test -- ο Χριστός ανακοινώθηκε από τους μαγικούς κάτω από το αστέρι
12:50<dbb>looks greek to me :-)
12:51<mnuhmnuh>annadane: yabut, we learned something. :-)
12:51<jelly>annadane, bot owner is aware of the issue
12:51<annadane>we did. i'll remember that chan for the next chinese person
12:51<annadane>oh, good
12:52<jelly>dpkg, who owns you
12:52<dpkg>dondelelcaro does
12:52<dbb>!gr
12:52<dpkg>??? ??????? ??? ???????? ???????? ????????? ??? #debian-gr on irc.oftc.net (irc.debian.org). Gia voitheia sta ellinika dokimaste to #debian-gr on irc.oftc.net (irc.debian.org). For help in Greek please try #debian-gr on irc.oftc.net (irc.debian.org).
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12:53<dbb>oh hey - no greek
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12:54<mnuhmnuh>!gk
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12:54<jelly>all the non-ascii utf-8 contents are broken; it's being worked on.
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12:55<jelly>dselect, gr
12:55<dselect>Γιά βοήθεια στα Ελληνικά παρακαλώ δοκιμάστε στο #debian-gr on irc.oftc.net (irc.debian.org). Gia voitheia sta ellinika dokimaste to #debian-gr on irc.oftc.net (irc.debian.org). For help in Greek please try #debian-gr on irc.oftc.net (irc.debian.org).
12:55<mnuhmnuh>i was just about to say gk (geek :-) fails quietly; no output.
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12:55<jelly>oh wow, that's just broken in a different way :-D
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12:55<jelly>mnuhmnuh, itym it succeeds quietly
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12:56<mnuhmnuh>half empty, half full.
12:57<mnuhmnuh>there should be a "status" switch we could send dpkg.
12:58<mnuhmnuh>my mistake; it replied "i don't know"
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15:15<yetoo>Is this the right place to ask about which package to properly file a bug for
15:15<somiaj>what version of debian do you run?
15:15<somiaj>what is the bug
15:16<yetoo>It's stable, and it's the greeter for lightdm,
15:16<yetoo>Do i report the buf for gir1.2-lightdm-1
15:16<yetoo>or lightdm,
15:17<yetoo>because i've been lurking and found that the lightdm package isn't part of the greeter
15:17<yetoo>i have debian 9 by the way
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15:17<yetoo>The bug is essentailly just missaligned text entry for username and password at the lightdm greeter
15:18<somiaj>I'm unsure there, but I think the matainer could reassign it if you reported it in the wrong place.
15:18<yetoo>Alright, thanks.
15:18<somiaj>Note stretch is frozen, so it might be worth seeing if this bug is still in testing/unstable or has been fixed, I would look through bug reports frist
15:19<yetoo>I did, if I reported the bug while in stable would it have merit to be fixed in unstable or would I need to make another report for unstable
15:20<somiaj>it would have merit, but only if the matainer can also reproduce it in their system on unstable
15:20<tt>yetoo: bug reports are going to be most helpful against unstable, unless they've quite severe or security related.
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15:22<tt>it's courteous to confirm a bug still exists in the newest available version before reporting it
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15:43<tda>i only test against the one i use. if the bug is in some version im not going to see for several years, i don't care at all imo
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15:46<tt>tda: which, is much less helpful to your fellow users.
15:46<tt>but a lazy bug report is sometimes better than none.
15:51<yetoo>Alright, before I got here I reported the bug on a stable release but then I tested on an unstable release and I still get the error, should I note that in a comment?
15:51<yetoo>*not error but bug
15:51<somiaj>yetoo: correct, if you get more info about the bug, please add it to the report, which is a public record of the bug
15:52<tt>sure
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15:56<yetoo>Unfortunately, the bug hasn't shown up yet and it's been over an hour
15:56<somiaj>did you get a reply from the control server, that usually happens fairly quickly, after that just wait.
15:57<yetoo>no
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15:58<somiaj>well give it a little longer, I usually get at least a notice (but not in my inbox, in my update folder) fairly quicly, but I don't file to many bugs, so my memeory could be hazy
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16:01<Jonny>How do i find out what network drivers i am using? thanks.
16:02<somiaj>Jonny: lsmod will list loaded modules, but you can also see what modules load the network drivers in dmesg. lshw also has a section for network hardware and will list what modules the hardware is using
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16:06<jonny>Sorry itnernet dropped
16:06<jonny>I feel like Linux is to blame for my slow internet
16:06<jonny>disconnecting and reconnecting fixes it temporarily
16:06<yetoo>You can use the command lspci -nk to get kernel modules
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16:07<jonny>yetoo: Thanks but i cant work out what is my network hardware
16:07<yetoo>like it's not being detected?
16:08<jonny>No, i get a list, of modules, I just can't work out what my network hardware is, the name of it from the list. I wanted to see if there are new drivers.
16:09<jonny>r8169 is that network?
16:09<yetoo>that is a driver
16:09<jonny>Ah ok.
16:10<yetoo>you can search for that driver which is in some debian package
16:10<jonny>Ok it is a realtek network driver
16:10<yetoo>yeah
16:10<jonny>i got reason to beleive that is my network module
16:10<jonny>thanks
16:11<yetoo>Wait, did lspci not list that it was realtek?
16:11<yetoo>without the -nk
16:12<jonny>uhm i shall check now
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16:12<jonny>Ethernet controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL8111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet Controller (rev 0c)
16:12<jonny>lists that
16:12<jonny>thanks for that
16:12<jonny>ethernet controller is my network hardware?
16:13<somiaj>did you install the firmware for that card?
16:13<somiaj>packge is firmware-realtek
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16:13<jonny>I don't have a card it is integrated
16:14<somiaj>well still it acts as if it were a card, it is a chipset wired into your PCI express bus, dosen't matter if it is on the mobo or in a slot in the long run
16:14<somiaj>but that is beyond the point, check if your firmware is installed
16:14<jonny>Is there a command where I can check version number or driver for the ethernet controller ? Thanks
16:15<jonny>oh is it next to the name in lspci?
16:16<somiaj>that shouldn't matter, in this case is the firmware installed?
16:16<tt>jonny: you've been here for a while... are you the guy with the weird SDIO chipset, or the guy who refuses to install the non-free firmware?
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16:16<somiaj>i.e. do you have the package firmware-realtek installed or what is the ouput of 'dmesg | grep firmware'
16:16<jonny>tt: refuses to install the non-free firmware
16:16<somiaj>well then expect issues with that card
16:16<tt>You need to install the firmware, or buy another card.
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16:17<yetoo>You need to add contrib non-free after each deb line in your sources.list
16:17<jonny>Ok, i will load the non-free , i just need to identify what to download
16:18<jonny>[ 2.801594] r8169 0000:03:00.0 enp3s0: unable to load firmware patch rtl_nic/rtl8168g-2.fw (-2)
16:18<jonny>[ 2.801485] r8169 0000:03:00.0: firmware: failed to load rtl_nic/rtl8168g-2.fw (-2)
16:18<jonny>yikes r8169 is network related
16:18<somiaj>jonny: if you don't want to open up your system to contrib and non-free you can dowload the firmware from https://packages.debian.org/stretch/firmware-realtek -- you can also get the firmware directly from realtek the card manifacture.
16:18<jonny>realtek
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16:19<somiaj>jonny: exactly, you don't have the firmware that card needs (which is part of the driver created by realtek, this part of the driver is not open and controled by realtek, so your trust is in them.
16:20<jonny>somiaj: Ah thankyou!
16:20<tt>it only runs on the card though, not your CPU
16:20<tt>since that concerned you last time
16:20<yetoo>Wait, so how is he connecting to the internet, he said he thought his internet was slow becuas eof linux earlier
16:20<jonny>tt: Yeah, not as bad?
16:20<jonny>I only said Linux due to possible driver issues on possibly my reluctance to download non-free.
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16:21<jonny>I was suspect of my inexpeirence but nevertheless I was annoyed
16:21<somiaj>jonny: in some sense yes. Note many chipsets already have firmware on them or priproty software running on the chip. In this case this software is provided via a seperate file that the chip loads into its memeory to fully function as opposed to being flashed on the chip. One advantage of this is the manufacture can create new firmware to fix bugs and users don't have to flash their chips.
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16:22<somiaj>jonny: there are many who only support hardawre that is fully open, but note not having a firmware file doesn't always mean fully open, since there could be proprity stuff already programed on the chip.
16:23<somiaj>if you want fully open hardware you do have to be really picky, as most hardware has some non-free firmware component flashed onto it.
16:23<jonny>somiaj: that is very interesting. Are there any open source hardware regarding graphic cards?
16:24<tt>Not really, no. That and the radio are usually the sticking points for totally-free single-board-computers and phones.
16:24<somiaj>intel is close in that it doesn't require any non-free firmware in the linux kernel, but unsure about the actual firmware on the chip
16:25<tt>Intel is a decent open-source citizen and supports the linux driver, though.
16:25<somiaj>yea, in many places it may be illegal to use open firmware for wifi cards, due to regulations on radio transmitions, one is not always legally allowed to change frequences/channels/power
16:26<jonny>Interesting, thanks guys. I've learnt something there.
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16:26<somiaj>But there is a grey line, openWRT gets away with it by basically just refusing to tell people how to modify those settings using the open platform, and has been able to provide open firmware for wireless routers
16:26<jonny>Linux is a hard platform for newbs who have been used to Windows.
16:26<jonny>frustrating at times
16:27<somiaj>(and they aren't really settings, they are hard codeded into the firmware)
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16:27<jonny>Hmm
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16:27<somiaj>and if your bios/uefi firmware is not open, most of teh rest is moot anyawys
16:28<tt>and then there's the whole intel AMT thing
16:28<tt>you can't trust your hardware, it's a sad truth
16:28<tt>accept it, or stop using computers.
16:28<somiaj>but there is hardware out there that runs on fully open bios firmware, and wifi cards you can install open firmware on, so if you are extremly picky you can use a fully open laptop.
16:29<somiaj>oh yea the cpu, s/fully/most fully/
16:29<amacater>You may not need realtek firmware for that realtek hardware: the generic drivers often work well for Ethernet. Wifi, on the other hand, almost always requires firmware.
16:30<somiaj>amacater: the r8168 is one of the rare wired ones that needs firmware, and seems jonny is having issues not having it installed.
16:30<jonny>amacater: My internet does work and is fast enough but sometimes I get slow bursts and reconnecting the internet brings the speed back ?
16:30<somiaj>though I'm unsure exactly what the firmware does.
16:30<jonny>somiaj: probably sells my personal data hehe
16:30<tt>if the card works w/o it, presumably it's a bugfix upgrade to it?
16:30<jonny>yeah i reckon
16:30<jonny>sounds likea bugfix is in order at times with my connection stability
16:31<tt>some cards have (a static version of) firmware onboard, some do not
16:31<somiaj>In this case I wouldn't worry to much about the firmware as it is from realtek and built for your card. And if you are worried, get a different card.
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16:31<jonny>You know, I would if i could, be picky and have open source hardware or close as, along with Linux.
16:31<jonny>true somiaj
16:31<somiaj>as mentioned you have non-free compents through out your system from your hardware manafactures.
16:32<yetoo>I sent my bug report with gmail, do would I need to modify it in any way to allow pgp or should it just send by default
16:32<jonny>yeah, i didn't do good research on it... shame that. My PC was built for windows in mind years ago
16:32-!-jon_ [~jon@107-161-193-218.wheatstate.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:32<jonny>Edward Snowden PC must be a fortress
16:32<somiaj>yetoo: should be fine, in gmail I get my relplys in my update tab not my inbox though.
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16:33<jonny>I know he uses Linux I forget which distro now.
16:33<yetoo>I got rid of that tab and just had everything go to inbox
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16:34<somiaj>yetoo: how did you compose the bug report? Did you send it as plain text or html (there is an option in gmail for this)?
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16:35<yetoo>No, I sent it with reportbug, but I was just wonder if you need to set something in gmail since the email had to go through the provider one way or another
16:35<somiaj>yetoo: is your system properly setup to send email, maybe that is the issue, it was never actually sent due to your isp blocking port 25
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16:36<somiaj>yetoo: you can get report bug to save the emial to a text file, then send it from gmail that way. You can also configure exim to be able to send over your gmail account.
16:37<dbb>does GMail allow a client like that?
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16:38<jonny>somiaj: https://packages.debian.org/stretch/firmware-realtek is rather old (2016) but because I don't have non-free in my sources.list would i still not have non-free installed for my r8169?
16:38<somiaj>dbb: clarify what you mean.
16:38<dbb>straight from an old-style "mail transport agent" or whatever.. or, is it just a POP/IMAP client
16:38<somiaj>jonny: get the package for the kernel you run, that is the stretch package, if running stretch use that.
16:38<dbb>I forget the mail transport termology .. but classic networking is a peer transport agent iir
16:38<somiaj>dbb: you can set up your local mail server exim to send mails through gmail, after that you can use any client you want on your machine to send emails.
16:39<dbb>somiaj: using IMAP ?
16:39<jonny>thanks somiaj
16:39<somiaj>dbb: SMTPS I belive
16:39<somiaj>dbb: https://wiki.debian.org/GmailAndExim4
16:39<dbb>oh intersting.. thx
16:39<somiaj>dbb: most isps only block SMTP, so one can usually use SMTPS, and then relay it through gmail
16:40<dbb> I have not tried this for years...
16:40<somiaj>you would have to use IMAP or POP3 (not sure if gmail supports both or not) to retrive emails
16:41<dbb>ok - that is what I would expect.. not a true peer
16:41<dbb>mail was abused :-((
16:41<yetoo>So, I just copy the body of the text file generated by reportbug and omit all the metadata and the bug tracker will accept that?
16:42<yetoo>Even with attached pictures
16:42<yetoo>*?
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16:42<somiaj>yetoo: the metadata? make sure you include the data about the package name, version, etc
16:43<jonny>somiaj: whats the command to install firmware-realtek ?
16:43<jonny>somiaj: apt get firmware-realtek ?
16:43<somiaj>jonny: if you downloaded that deb, 'dpkg -i filename.deb'
16:43<somiaj>jonny: 'apt install firmware-realtek' would require you add non-free to your sources.list
16:43<yetoo>like the information about the email protocol and other stuff of the caliber
16:44<jonny>somiaj: Thanks! I've added it to my sources.list and will take it off after i installed it.
16:44<somiaj>yetoo: yea I don't think you need it all.
16:44<somiaj>jonny: run apt update after, then install it
16:44<jonny>somiaj: Ok thanks.
16:44<jonny>cheers
16:44<yetoo>If you were to install the package version, you would need to run sudo
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16:45<jonny>is it ok if i already used su and password?
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16:45<yetoo>yeah
16:45<jonny>oh ok cheers
16:45<jonny>rebooting
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16:47<Jonny>Well i rebooted after firmware package for realtek and did dmesg | grep firmware , i have two less r8169 errors just one left.
16:48<Jonny>r8169 0000:03:00.0: firmware: direct-loading firmware rtl_nic/rtl8168g-2.fw
16:48<Jonny>don't know if this one is harmless?
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16:50<Jonny>have a good night everyone, i'm off
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17:00<dbb>btw congrats and thanks to sources.debian.org ; this looks great, and quite useful
17:02<dbb>soem industrious person could take portions of the graph of depends, and apply this.. http://devmine.ch/
17:02<dbb>the dev mine code seems open.. they run it against Github-dot-com apparently.. I just saw it somewhat at random
17:02<dbb>Debian has done this 100 ways already..but here is "this years model"
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17:10<yetoo>Alright, when I installed mutt and started it up for the first time, it says that /var/log/<username> is not a mailbox
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17:10<yetoo>*/var/mail/<username>
17:10<yetoo>there are no files within /var/mail
17:11<yetoo>I installed mutt right after I did dpkg-reconfigure exim4-config
17:12<yetoo>What do I do?
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17:19<yetoo>exit
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17:29<amacater>send yourself a test mail - mutt will then create the appropriate folders
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17:30<jelly>technically the MDA will create it, not mutt
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17:48<yetoo>I am not trying to relay, I am trying to send email through google services with mutt
17:48<yetoo>that's why i did dpkg-reconfigure exiv4-config
17:49<yetoo>well, i mean that's why i did the first part
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18:01<jelly>if you're using smtp_url you don't have to care about local delivery at all
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18:01<jelly>might tell mutt your inbox is also at google.
18:02<yetoo>Well I can't
18:02<yetoo>because mutt doesn't prompt or do anything after it says that it doesn't ahve the ruight mailbox
18:03<jelly>edit your .muttrc and set folder=imaps://imap.gmail.com/
18:03<jelly>or something similar
18:04<yetoo>.muttrc doesn't exist for me. I would create my .muttrc, but I want to know if it should exist already or not
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18:06<jelly>if what should exist, /var/mail/$user or .muttrc?
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18:07<jelly>existence of /var/mail/username really depends on whether you have a local MTA and whether its delivery agent is configured to put mail in that rather legacy place.
18:09<jelly>yetoo, test it by sending a mail message to your local user, and seeing where it ends up: echo test | mailx -s 'test subject' yourusernamehere
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18:10<jelly>then see if /var/mail/yourusernamehere gets created, or if new message appears under ~/Maildir/new/ or log at your MTA's logs to see if it got delivered some place completely different
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18:13<jelly>look* at your MTA's logs (if exim4, I think they're at /var/log/exim4/mainlog ?)
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18:14<jelly>but the gist is, if you want mutt to stop complaining about something not existing, tell it to stop looking there
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18:16<yetoo>I was asking if .muttrc should exist already or not
18:18<yetoo>There are no errors in /var/log/exim4/mainlog
18:19<yetoo>Alright, that mailx command worked
18:19<jelly>no, you create it yourself
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18:21<jelly>yetoo, sorry, "set folder=" wasn't a workaround for this at all. The usual way to point mutt or other mail client to a different inbox is setting MAIL or MAILDIR environment variable (or setting spoolfile in .muttrc, but that seems a lot less common).
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18:22<Guest545>anyone here?
18:22<jelly>I've set things up so long ago I don't remember even the basics
18:22<yetoo>it's by doing the dpkg-reconfigure exim4-config rifght?
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18:23<jelly>yetoo, I have no idea what you want to accomplish with exim4 or that command, sorry
18:24<jelly>a local MTA like exim is not needed at all if you just want to send mail via gmail with mutt using smtp
18:25<yetoo>I'm just trying to follow the debian guide here: https://wiki.debian.org/GmailAndExim4
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18:26<mnuhmnuh>mutt didn't used to do smtp, but that capability easily provided by other mini-smtp thingies.
18:26<jelly>ah. I don't have a clue about exim4 and can't comment about those bits.
18:26<mnuhmnuh>esmtp, msmtp, ssmtp
18:27<jelly>it does now and has for a while (at least since wheezy)
18:28<mnuhmnuh>exim can be told to use user's isp's mail server as "smarthost" exclusively.
18:28<mnuhmnuh>all mtps can be told that.
18:30<mnuhmnuh>plus exim seems to be around to handle local system mail.
18:31<jelly>it's only around if you let it be installed
18:32<mnuhmnuh>i didn't ask for a print server. i got cups anyway.
18:32<tt>You can do a more-minimal install.
18:32<jelly>not sure what a mtp is, if you meant MTAs, then configuration is often arcane
18:32<jelly>as can be seen on that wiki page.
18:32<mnuhmnuh>esmtp, msmtp, ssmtp
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18:33<mnuhmnuh>plus postfix, sendmail, ...
18:33<tt>right, MTAs
18:33<mnuhmnuh>yeah, ya, jargon's fun.
18:34<jelly>wouldn't suggest sendmail to an enemy
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18:34<jelly>not sure which one is esmtp, either; ssmtp did not work well with gmail last time I tried; for msmtp you probably want msmtp-mta package actually
18:35<jelly>,v esmtp
18:35<judd>Package: esmtp on amd64 -- wheezy: 1.2-10; jessie: 1.2-12; stretch: 1.2-14; buster: 1.2-15; sid: 1.2-15
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18:36<mnuhmnuh>disclaimer, i'm using testing/buster. they are in buster :-)
18:37<mnuhmnuh>and i've never been anywhere near gmail.
18:37<jelly>adding one line to ~/.muttrc is a lot more simple than dealing with any MTA
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18:38<mnuhmnuh>but w gmail, you need to futz w tls.
18:38<jelly>set smtp_url="smtps://ye.too%40gmail.com@smtp.gmail.com/"
18:38<jelly>that's it. done.
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18:39<yetoo>I get an unknown command when i do that
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18:40<jelly>yetoo, it's a line for your .muttrc, not a shell command
18:40<yetoo>I know, when I put that line in the .muttrc I get unknown command when I start mutt
18:41<jelly>yetoo, which debian release are you using?
18:41<yetoo>I am using debian 9 stable
18:42<jelly>wfm
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18:42<jelly>(I pasted it from my ~/.mutt/muttrc-gmail)
18:42<mnuhmnuh>yetoo: you don't want "set" in that line. just smtp_url=...
18:43<jelly>mnuhmnuh, no, you want set.
18:43<mnuhmnuh>not by my old mutrc
18:43<yetoo>adding set in front worked
18:44<jelly>this hasn't changed in quite a while.
18:44<mnuhmnuh>oops, i'm wrong. i do see set used in there. sry.
18:45<yetoo>was that smpt_url the standard url to use or do I have to modify it for my creditials
18:45<jelly>and set smtp_pass="...", I appear to still have a per-app password in there from back when google allowed those.
18:46<tt>it contains your username
18:46<jelly>URI-encoded, yes
18:46<yetoo>where in it does it contain the user name
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18:47<tt>the part before the @ sign
18:47<jelly>yetoo, the ye.too%40gmail.com should be your google email address
18:47<tt>%40 is an encoded @ sign
18:47<jelly>@ replaced with %40 because you can't have two @ signs in an URI.
18:47<tt>heh apparently I just told dselect to do something.
18:48<jelly>dselect, forget 40
18:48<dselect>jelly: i didn't have anything called '40' to forget
18:48<tt>it refused me :)
18:48<jelly>good thing it wasn't %70
18:48<tt>?
18:48<yetoo>I get sasl authentication fauiled when i enter my password
18:48<tt>dselect: 70?
18:48<dselect>This is outdated, for Stretch see https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/PredictableNetworkInterfaceNames/ oldfactoid: udev has the ability to statically rename Ethernet cards based on MAC address. The addresses are configured in /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules, edit this file to change the mappings. To apply changes: «udevadm trigger» or reload the relevant driver module. See also <udev>.
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18:53<jelly>yetoo, I'm not sure whether you need to tell google to allow SMTP AUTH with PLAIN login method somewhere on account.google.com, google thinks this is "less secure" so https://support.google.com/a/answer/6260879?hl=en
18:55<jelly>yetoo, or https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/6010255?hl=en if you don't have g.apps but just a simple single account
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18:57<jelly>oh, application-specific passwords still exist. Good.
18:58*jelly -> bed
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19:08<mingyang>王洪文 are
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19:15<Zimsky>I concur
19:17<mnuhmnuh>!cn
19:17<dpkg>??????????????? Debian ???????????????? irc.debian.org ? irc.oftc.net ??? #dot ???????????????????????????? IRC ??????????????????????????????????
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19:21<doctor>hi hello, I have one problem file-roller or archive manager as it is called will not work with .rar files, I reinstalled p7zip and file roller but it cannot see inside the .rar
19:26<somiaj>might depend on the .rar file, but there is a rar and unrar from nonfree which may access more .rar files than the rar-free or unrar-free counter park
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19:27<doctor>what is nonfree?
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19:27<somiaj>it means the software doesn't meet debian's free software guidliness (DFSG) and is in a seperate non-free repo.
19:27<somiaj>!non-free
19:27<dpkg>[non-free] a component which contains software that does not comply with the <DFSG>. To add non-free packages to your packages index, ask me about <non-free sources>. To see which non-free packages are installed ask me about <non-free list>. For the non-free tracking system, see http://nonfree.alioth.debian.org/
19:27<somiaj>in this case it is license info about what one can do with the software.
19:28<somiaj>but rar-free and unrar-free might also be enough
19:28<mnuhmnuh>doctor: if you're not a debian dev, you needn't worry about it, just use it if/when necessary.
19:29<doctor>ahh
19:29<mingyang>so tm what
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19:31<doctor>yes I just needed to know if there was anything I was missing for .rar files since I just installed debian
19:31<somiaj>well according to the description you have to register rar and unrar after 30 days of use as it is 'shareware'
19:34<mnuhmnuh>ah. that's when user does need to think twice about using it.
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19:40<doctor>I'm trying rzip
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19:40<doctor>nope.
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19:42<doctor>it isn't a problem with any particular .rar since it is happening to any rar I have here
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19:45<doctor>yes I am definitely missing a type of package or something because under archive manager it does not list .rar as a way of compressing a file
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19:49<noctis>Hello
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19:51<tt>doctor: I guess I'd check what package provides archive manager, then what packages that package suggests and recommends; might get lucky.
19:51<doctor>it says just file-roller
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19:53<tt>that package (file-roller) has some suggests
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19:54<tt>although, it's package description doesn't list rar
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19:55<doctor>on all other debian variants file-roller unrolls a rar
19:56<tt>well the package description is not really authoritative either way.
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20:01<doctor>well thanks for your help
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21:37<mom>hi, so i have a 64MB pdf im trying to print. it's about 68 pages. If i do it in chunks of 8 pages at a time it seems to work. If I try to do all 68 pages it starts to print after some time then stops and prints ERROR: ioerror -- is there something that needs to be configured so that it buffers or something a document that must be exceeding the internal memory of the printer? My best guess anyway . . .
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21:42<doctor>how can I enable non-free software archive to my software repository?
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21:49<doctor>!!none-free
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21:49<doctor>!non-free
21:49<dpkg>[non-free] a component which contains software that does not comply with the <DFSG>. To add non-free packages to your packages index, ask me about <non-free sources>. To see which non-free packages are installed ask me about <non-free list>. For the non-free tracking system, see http://nonfree.alioth.debian.org/
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21:54<doctor>I just downloaded p7zip-rar from a non-free software site under debian
21:54<doctor>gdebi will not install
21:54<doctor>nno error just won
21:55<doctor>won't highlite the install button
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21:55<EricCaprioli>ok
21:56<doctor>is that because I might be missing something>
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21:58<doctor>should I try from the command line?
21:59<doctor>so what would that be dpkg apt-install p7zip-rar_9.20.1~ds.1-3_i386.deb ?
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22:03<doctor>no wait
22:03<doctor>dpkg -i p7zip-rar_9.20.1~ds.1-3_i386.deb
22:03*dpkg removes a kidney from doctor and replaces it with p7zip-rar_9.20.1~ds.1-3_i386.deb
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22:09<doctor>http://paste.debian.net/1002507/
22:09<doctor>can't figure this out
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22:11<Zimsky>you could doctor it?
22:11<doctor>when I install this package it comes in as a broken package under the synaptic package manager
22:11<doctor>but I need it
22:13<cef>doctor: try 'apt-get -f install'
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22:15<cef>doctor: looks like it has dependencies that aren't installed so it's left it part installed. dpkg -i will only install from a file, so it won't go to repos for the depenencies. 'apt-get -f install' will try to resolve things so that all packages are installed (ie: it'll fetch the dependencies to satisfy the packages requirements).
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23:43-!-rjsalts_ is "Richard James Salts" on #debian-kde #debian-au #debian
23:46-!-bhuvi [~quassel@122.178.102.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:46-!-user [~user@181.196.4.25] has joined #debian
23:46-!-user is "realname" on #debian
23:46<user>WHAT UP
23:46-!-user [~user@181.196.4.25] has quit []
23:47<annadane>drive-by support
23:48-!-dvs [~hibbard@00012127.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:48-!-babyflakes is "p4cman" on #oftc #moocows #linux-rt #perf #sched #iovisor #debian-systemd #freebsd #bcache #linuxfs #gcc
23:48-!-babyflakes [uid171740@id-171740.charlton.irccloud.com] has joined #debian
23:49-!-rjsalts_ is now known as rjsalts
23:56-!-aielima [~aielima@0001c204.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
---Logclosed Wed Dec 27 00:00:23 2017