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#debian IRC Logs for 2018-01-09

---Logopened Tue Jan 09 00:00:41 2018
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00:09<User98>hello, i am having some problems with my server
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00:09<Sveta>ask
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00:10<User98>it freeze on random times, some times days ,some times weeks, i have nothing in my logs at all
00:10<annadane>User98, which server?
00:11<User98>the screen servers gets frozen (stuck) and i cant connect to it via the network
00:11<User98>annadane: which server?\
00:11<User98>i didnt get your question?
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00:12<annadane>like, apache?
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00:12<User98>oh, i have multipule virtualboxs on the server
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00:17<User98>is there a way to know if its a hardware problem or not ?
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00:18<somiaj>User98: kinda depends on the hardware. Did it use to work?
00:19<somiaj>does it work on other kernels/oses? What exactly is failing, but if you are getting random hard freezes on the server, could be a bad kernel, but if the kernel hasn't changed, it coudl be failing hardware
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00:19<return>hi
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00:21<User98>somiaj: i havent tried diffrent OSes or kernels, but i dont remember getting any kind of freezes when i used debian jessie (i didnt use it for a really long time though) mostly i found the problem with debian stretch
00:22<somiaj>User98: so the problem only appeared after upgrading to debian stretch?
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00:22<User98>somiaj: i would say yes to that, but again i didnt use jessie for a long time
00:22<somiaj>User98: you could try a debian jessie live system or some other test, but if it only appeared out of upgrading to a newer kernel, that would make me think an issue with the kernel unless I was able to somehow verify in naother case the hardware was bad.
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00:23<somiaj>I think you are in the case you just need to do more testing.
00:23<User98>sometimes it takes a month for it to freeze which is really annoying
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00:24<User98>somiaj: right now i have memtest86 running to see if its a ram problem
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00:24<somiaj>maybe run a memtest, random freezes are sometimes due to bad ram that causes issues randomally
00:24<somiaj>usually software freezes are very predictable and you can figure out how to triger it with software each time
00:25<keycollector>b17: drivers: ati,vesa (unloaded: modesetting,fbdev,radeon) This shows me my current drivers correct? https://paste.gnome.org/pcnqsgpja
00:25<User98>should i waste time on ram testing, if a ram had any problems whould it freeze line this ?
00:25<User98>like*
00:25<somiaj>User98: depends on how much ram and what is bad, but bad ram can often be the cause of random freezes.
00:26<somiaj>because it will only freeze if important system stuff uses the bad piece of ram
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00:26<User98>i am using ecc memory, and out of 7-8 freeze i sow in BOIS logs that i got multi bit ecc error
00:27<User98>somiaj: which means it was a ram problem, but the thing is i removed the bad ram and yet today i got another freeze
00:27<somiaj>at this time my wild guess would be test the ram, random system freezes for what appears to be no related thing happening
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00:27<somiaj>sometimes it is the ram bus and not the ram itself
00:28<User98>somiaj: so that means the problem is from the motherboard ?
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00:28<User98>i am using dual processor FYI if that has anything to do with anything
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00:29<User98>somiaj: and as you said it should only freeze like that if the ram bit that was a problem had to do something with important stuff on the system
00:30<User98>somiaj: but i never got any errors its always a freeze
00:30<somiaj>User98: yes, sometimes it is the ram bus on the mobo causing the ram to appear bad. Having another machine to test the ram could help isolate this.
00:30<somiaj>it could be you had bad ram and now some other issue as well, and now have to track down this other issue
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00:32<User98>somiaj: only thing i can do is replace the whole ram set and get a new set if i still got the problem then i should try to replace the CPU it self. if i still got the error its the motherboard if i again got the error its the OS? i wonder in what order should i test
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00:33<somiaj>User98: sometimes hardare issues are hard to track down, and not having another machine to check hardware on (i.e. check the ram indpendent of the mobo you are using) can making things harder
00:33<somiaj>I really don't know of good hardware testing software
00:34<return>memtest86 is not good?
00:35<somiaj>return: memtest is just fine, but outsdie of that.
00:35<User98>return: is only for ram, and its running right now
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00:35<User98>ram and the ram bus i guess...
00:35<somiaj>testing video ram is sometimes useful, could be io traffice, sometimes doing stress tests on your io bus, and stuff like that can cause things to freeze showing hardware issues
00:35<somiaj>User98: usually the issue is ram, but sometimes a failure in ram doesn't mean the ram is bad
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00:43<User98>somiaj: in my whole setup the only crappy thing is the graphic card, it got it for like 30$
00:43<User98>somiaj: can such freeze be from that gcard ?
00:44<somiaj>maybe, most graphic cards load a modesetting driver in the kernel by default even if no xorg is used, and I have had bad memory on graphics cards do strange things
00:45<somiaj>I have RMA'd multiple graphics cards due to bad memmory, and that was causing my system to freeze, but only when 'gaming'
00:45<User98>but again impov RAM, GCard, OS, should leave something in the logs not full freeze with nothing!!
00:45<jm_>you were able to detect there's bad RAM on the graphic card itself?
00:45<annadane>RMA?
00:45<User98>jm_: no
00:46<jm_>User98: I was asking somiaj :)
00:46<User98>jm_: :P
00:47<somiaj>jm_: at the time I downloaded some vidoe card ram tester, it failed (this was after 3 months of non-free nvidia/nouvea/nv multiple version sof debian and kernels trying to track down why my card didn't work)
00:47<jm_>somiaj: cool, didn't know such things exist
00:47<somiaj>rma'd it, and they sent me a new card, so pny at least agreed with me the card had an hardware fall
00:47<somiaj>I don't know where I found it, this was years ago, and I belive it was limited to a certain generation of cards I had
00:48<jm_>I was puzzled when my system was freezing in games, but only sometimes, then it did not power on once or twice after such freeze, which led me to PSU, replaced that and all was fine
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00:50<somiaj>I had to replace my PSU recentally for that same issue
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00:51<somiaj>x^n - 1 has a nice factorization which will give you a factorization for x^n - a^n for any n
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00:52<somiaj>but x^n - 1 = (x-1)(x^(n-1) + x^(n-2) + .... + 2 + 1), it is also a nice thing to try to prove
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00:56<jm_>wrong channel?
00:57<somiaj>arg yup
00:57<somiaj>Maybe ircing when I'm having trouble sleeping is not the best.
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01:43<return>that is also offtopic, but it may be better to lie down and just count your breaths (starting again at 1 after 10 if you want)
01:43<return>it calms the mind
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03:22<rkdf21>Hi all, I am having issues with the debian package registry atm. Is anyone else having an issue?
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03:22<jm_>try to explain your problem in more detail
03:22<rkdf21>Specifically, "W: Failed to fetch http://deb.debian.org/debian/dists/jessie/main/binary-amd64/Packages 404 Not Found" when running an update
03:22<rkdf21>W: Failed to fetch http://deb.debian.org/debian/dists/jessie-updates/main/binary-amd64/Packages 404 Not Found
03:24<jm_>deb.debian.org is a pool of sites, try again, or if that does not work, try switching to a specific working mirror
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03:25<jm_>actually I also get that error now, looking in the dir there are only Packages.* files there (so compressed), but no uncompressed files
03:26<jm_>I am no longer on jessie but for me apt-get tries to fetch Packages.xz
03:26<rkdf21>Is there any planned maintainance jm_
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03:30<annadane>i would check but i have no packages that need updating in sid
03:30<annadane>though yes it may be a jessie thing
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03:30<Guest1499>hello
03:31<jm_>rkdf21: let me check my jessie system
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03:37<jm_>so my jessie system fetches Packages.xz just fine
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03:40<annadane>try selecting something other than deb.debian.org
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03:40<rkdf21>Thanks jm_
03:41<rkdf21>It seems to be occurring in us-west-2 (oregon) but working up in Toronto canada
03:41<jm_>rkdf21: so my jessie system does try to fetch Packages.xz so yeah a busted mirror makes the most sense
03:43<tarzeau><3
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03:52<rkdf21>jm_ thanks :)
03:52<jm_>rkdf21: no worries
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05:46<yang_>is there a debian channel for printers/cups topics?
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06:16<Tuor>Hi, I have read "man dd". But I still have a question about dd. I don't completly understand, what the difference between "nocache" and "sync" ist. Both are slow modes, but data is directly written to the harddisk and not cached in memory. Where is the difference between the dd-flags: nocache and sync?
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06:17<Tuor>I see some write-speed difference: sync: ~45KiB/s ; nocache: ~41KiB/s
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06:25<jm_>nocache calls posix_fadvise with POSIX_FADV_DONTNEED, fdatasync calls fdatasync, fsync calls fsync
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06:30<Guest1509>Hello. I can't update my kernel 3.16 amd64 to 4.9 i made an update from jessie. i just see my kernel 3.16.amd64 no newer kernel in repos
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06:30<bremner>!bat
06:30<dpkg>In order to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, apt or aptitude we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use http://paste.debian.net/ to provide us with this information. Also ask me about <localized errors>.
06:31<jm_>there are no meltdown fixes for jessie yet AFAIK
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06:32<jm_>4.9 for jessie is on bpo
06:32<bremner>I think there is for jessie-backports
06:32<bremner>yeah.
06:32<jm_>with meltdown fix?
06:32<bremner>iirc
06:32<jm_>let's see
06:33<Guest1509>sorry i mean i mande an upgrade from jessie to Stretch and my kernel is still 3.16 ..amd64
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06:34<jm_>how is it possible the upgrade completed then?
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06:35<grawity>maybe it installed the new kernel but didn't remove the old one
06:35<grawity>and didn't make it the default in grub
06:35<Guest1509>the upgrade is completed i got the same thing on 2 pc
06:35<jm_>check what 'dpkg -l|grep linux-image' shows
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06:36<Guest1509>ii linux-image-3.16.0-4-amd64 3.16.43-2+deb8u1 i386 Linux 3.16 for 64-bit PCs
06:36<Guest1509>rc linux-image-3.2.0-4-686-pae 3.2.68-1+deb7u1 i386 Linux 3.2 for modern PCs
06:36<towo^work>missing meta package
06:36<Guest1509>mm i had to remove the old one before ?
06:36<towo^work>without the meta-package you will never get kernel updates
06:37<Guest1509>whath's the meta package ?
06:37<towo^work>linux-image-amd64
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06:37<jm_>is that installed by default?
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06:38<towo^work>if not, i would call it a bug
06:38<towo^work>without that package no new kernel would be installed
06:38<Guest1509>yes i try that and i can't find it , and my source.list are uptodate =s
06:39<jm_>you mean you can't install it now?
06:39<Guest1509>apt search linux-image-amd64
06:39<Guest1509>En train de trier... Fait
06:39<Guest1509>Recherche en texte intégral... Fait
06:39<jm_>if so provide the info asked about before with !bat
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06:40<jm_>yeah my jessie install does have linux-image-amd64 on it by default, so must have been some older version upgraded or someone manually removed that package
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06:40<jm_>Guest1509: see what dpkg said above and provide that info
06:41<Guest1509>what if i download the package and install it manually ?
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06:41<jm_>well why not fix apt to do that for you instead?
06:41<Guest1509>how ?
06:41<jm_>but sure, do it manually if you want to
06:42<jm_>start by providing the requested info
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06:44<jm_>i.e. put this on the paste site to start with: 'apt-cache policy' 'apt-cache policy linux-image-amd64'
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06:47<Guest1509>ok i posted it
06:48<jm_>url?
06:48<Guest1509>http://paste.debian.net/1004210/
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06:49<jm_>ahh ok you're on i386 :)
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06:50<jm_>does it find linux-image-686?
06:50<Guest1509>:s lol
06:50<Guest1509>yes
06:51<jm_>but you had linux-image-3.16.0-4-amd64 from before, and IIRC i386 does provide amd64 kernels for a while now, let me check stretch packages
06:51<Guest1509>it's an old install i probably install X86 kernel & the installation and update manually to amd64
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06:52<Guest1509>@ not &
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06:54<jm_>yeah I can't find it being available for stretch - so either install linux-image-686-pae or rebuild amd64 one yourself
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06:55<Guest1509>how it's possible ? what will hapend if i install the meta-package (linux-image-64) myself ?
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06:56<jm_>I mean install the real amd64 kernel package, not the meta package (linux-image-amd64) - having meta package in this case seems useless
06:56<jm_>but since it's not available from the official repos you will have to build one yourself it seems
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06:56<jm_>I am glad I converted my systems to amd64, only one to go, which will happen soonish with HW upgrade
06:57<Guest1509>yeah
06:57<jm_>if you want a quick fix go with 686-pae meta package for now and worry about the rest later
06:57<Guest1509>what if i made a new install (amd64) ? it will find the good kernel for updates ?
06:57<jm_>yes
06:58<Guest1509>:s lol
06:58<Guest1509>i will do that maybe :s i'll see
06:58<jm_>but there are no differences in terms of latest updates, they are available both for the i386 and the amd64 architecture
06:58<Guest1509>Thanks a lot for your help
06:58<jm_>no problem
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07:01<Tuor>jm_, thx for your reply. I get the thing about nocache and page-cache. Sync blocks until all data is written to the storage-device, and the dd flag "sync" call sync after every block, written. Now what is "direct I/O"? Using dd with "direct I/O" is slower then normal, but faster then dd with the "sync-flag".
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07:02<jm_>Tuor: I believe that one means pass O_DIRECT to open, so man 2 open -> O_DIRECT
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07:03<Tuor>jm_, thx i'll look. :)
07:03<jm_>no problem
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07:09<Tuor>man 2 read -> O_DIRECT: "...at the completion of a read(2) or write(2), data is guaranteed to have been transferred." Transfered to the storage device? When I write data and call sync after it, all data is written to the storage device, when sync exits. How can Direct I/O be faster then normal write & sync after it? I still don't get it, what O_DIRECT exactly does...
07:10<Tuor>Sync => flush all dirty blocks
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07:12<jm_>try to read the O_DIRECT section under NOTES too
07:12<Tuor>jm_, ah ok. thx
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07:26<Tuor>So there are different buffers. Some buffer is in user-space of memory and the page-buffer is in the kernel-space of memory. I have begun to google user- and kernel-spaces in memory and what buffers exist. This hole thing beginns to get complicated^^
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07:28<jm_>yes, exactly ;)
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07:39<uso>I accidently have entered "poweroff" in a shell as a normal (unprivileged) user and was surprized that I was allowed to execute that command. Is there any way to remove the permission for that command for normal users (as it used to be iirc)?
07:40<uso>s/accidently/accidentally/
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07:43<Brigo>uso, https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/263884/disable-shutdown-and-poweroff-command-in-ubuntu
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07:50<Tuor>I have an USB-harddisk, I have not used for some time now. The Disk is completly wiped (I wipe disks befor storing them). Badblocks is running in "write+destructiv" mode on the disk. The disk is connected with USB3.x and has 1TB of size. So it takes some time. I have now tryed to get some smart information about it, but my disk is not supported by smart. I have checked the "Supported_USB-Devices"-List of smartmontools.org and it's not on the list. Only some
07:50<Tuor>other Seagate Backup Plus disks, but not mine. My disk: Seagate Backup Plus 1TB. lsblk informations: VENDOR: seagate; MODEL: Backup+; SIZE: 931.5G
07:50<Tuor>Am I wrong or will I not be able to use smartctl with this harddisk?
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07:52<Brigo>Tuor, the smart system is build in the disk, so if the disk has it and it is enable smarctl should get the information from it.
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07:54<jm_>Tuor: in the past I had to say smartctl -d sat for it to work with USB disks, later on I no longer needed this switch
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07:57<jm_>if it's only about the drive DB, try update-smart-drivedb or try editing the file by hand
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08:00<Tuor>Brigo, how can I know if the smart system is build in the disk? If it is build in, how can I enable it or check if it is enabled?
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08:02<Tuor>jm_, I just checked if my disk is supported befor trying stuff. My thoughts: "If the disk is not supported, it will not work and I can not use smartctl."
08:02<jm_>Tuor: it's mostly just a matter of mapping of ID-s, see /var/lib/smartmontools/drivedb/drivedb.h
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08:05<jm_>that's why it's worth trying with a newed drive DB, but yeah - it's entirely possible no-one provided it yet (sometimes manufactures provide datasheet for that so one can write their own)
08:05<jm_>newer*
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08:06<keycollector>Brigo: I was the person yesterday you advised to upgrade to 4.14 to get support for Vega 64 GPU.
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08:07<keycollector>I also got the newest AMD firmware from backports.
08:07<Tuor>I tryed smartctl -i /dev/sdb and then it instructed me to try "-T permissive". I did it and got the same answer in more verbose matter: not in database. I'll ask google about updating smart-db.
08:07<Brigo>keycollector, and?
08:08<Guest1513>\j #alpcoin
08:08<Guest1513>:(
08:09<Brigo>Guest1513, /j
08:09<keycollector>Brigo: Where did you read that vega 64 was supported? i couldnt find it. But this is my output for inxi -G https://paste.gnome.org/pwvab88kx . Assuming i need to get the Radeon driver loaded in?
08:09<Guest1513>thank you
08:10<Brigo>keycollector, i really don't remember, sorry.
08:10<keycollector>Brigo: Awh :( okay
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08:12<uso>Brigo: thanks! will try later if it works, too many applications open at the moment ;)
08:13<Brigo>uso, np
08:15<Tuor>in my debian man for smartctl it refers to man 8 update-smart-drivedb. I have the man and in the man it lists a file with the location: /usr/sbin/update-smart-drivedb but on my system this file doesn't exist. I can't find anything with apt-cache search update-smart.
08:16<Brigo>keycollector, it looks like yo will need at least 4.15: https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=radeon-vega-setup&num=1
08:16<Brigo>keycollector, here talks about 4.12 supporting it: https://hothardware.com/news/amd-radeon-vega-official-driver-supports-comes-to-linux-kernel-412
08:18<Tuor>ah this functionality has been removed in debian. I'll have to get a new drivedb.h file manualy.
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08:20<keycollector>Bringo: Thanks, ill see what i can do with this new information.
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08:24<Tuor>I have download drivedb.h in version 6.4 and move the original file.
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08:25<Tuor_>The error is: "Warning: DEFAULT entry missing in drive database file(s) \n Read Device Identity failed: scsi error unsupported field in scsi command"
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08:27<Tuor_>http://paste.debian.net/1004232/
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08:28<Tuor_>and with "-T permissive": http://paste.debian.net/1004233/
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09:55<tragedie>Hello
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09:56<tragedie>I am looking for a unofficial non-free amd64 netinst image to install Debian to a 2015 Macbook Pro
09:56<tragedie>However the hosting site (cdimage.debian.org) has been unavailable for several days now
09:57<tragedie>anyone know where I could find this image or if the site will be back up any time soon?
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09:57<tragedie>Any light shed on this much appreciated
09:57<tragedie>Thanks in advance
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09:58<petn-randall>tragedie: That site is up for me.
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10:03<tragedie>Strange. I cant access it and that is the only site unavailable to me
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10:03<tragedie>Is there any alternative host site I can use?
10:04<vezult>Why am I making requests to debian-cdn.debian.org? I don't have that configured in my sources.list, and I don't get redirected there, when I use curl to make a request to security.debian.org
10:04<duncan>mirrorservice.org
10:04<petn-randall>tragedie: What do you get trying to access it? 404? timeout? A different error?
10:05<vezult>I have servers installed in an environment where all outgoing requests are proxied and whitelisted, so I can't really be redirected to random mirrors
10:06<vezult>rather, if I am, then requests get blocked
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10:06<tragedie>petn-randall: it actually started working just now while I was retrying it for the nth time
10:06<tragedie>lol
10:06<tragedie>thanks!
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10:09<vezult>any advice/explanation?
10:09<vezult>or pointers to where I can find out more about this?
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10:10-!-AzaToth is "Carl Fürstenberg" on #debian-perl #debian-mentors #debian
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10:12<julienth37>hi guys I search for good knowledge about apt pinning to check my conf file (think I will put it on the Debian wiki if good) did some one there want to to take a few minutes to look ?
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10:14<petn-randall>julienth37: What do you want to pin? It's only needed in very few circumstances, not in the usual production usage.
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10:16<julienth37>petn-randall: it's a handy uniaue conf for stable with possibilty to pick in backports/sloppy/testing/unstable
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10:16<julienth37>*unique
10:17<petn-randall>julienth37: mixing stable with any other release is not recommended nor supported in here for several reasons.
10:17<petn-randall>!frankendebian
10:17<dpkg>When you get random packages from random repositories, mix multiple releases of Debian, or mix Debian and derived distributions, you have a mess. There's no way anyone can support this "distribution of Frankenstein" and #debian certainly doesn't want to even try. See if you can convince ##linux to help.
10:17<lavamind>just keep in mind, if you pin a package for backports, it won't install/upgrade automatically unless all it's dependencies are also pinned (if any)
10:17<petn-randall>julienth37: The Proper Way™ is to use backports, or backport it yourself.
10:17<petn-randall>!ssb
10:17<dpkg>First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) aptitude update; aptitude install build-essential; aptitude build-dep packagename; apt-get -b source packagename; 4) install the resultant debs. To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>.
10:17<julienth37>petn-randall: not randowm with pinning (as I understand)
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10:18<lavamind>julienth37: packages from testing/unstable are not meant to be installed on stable
10:18<julienth37>petn-randall: i use this file https://pub.julienth37.fr/sources.list and https://pub.julienth37.fr/00-keep-stretch-stretch
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10:19<julienth37>lavamind: I know but when I need something from unstable I prefer pinning over compilation ^^
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10:20<petn-randall>julienth37: Sure, you can do it your way, but it's neither recommended nor supported in here, simply because there are so many subtle ways you can blow your system apart doing that.
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10:20<julienth37>my objective are twice : be able to do it with the less danger possible (no danger not possible it's obvious) and make sone less dangerous example on the offical wiki (see some very ugly one on other site)
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10:21<julienth37>petn-randall: I know it's why I search for other reading to find the weak point in my setup
10:22<petn-randall>julienth37: I hate repeating myself, but your "weak point" is that you're mixing stretch and buster.
10:22<julienth37>petn-randall: that one I already know it, I search the other ;)
10:23<petn-randall>julienth37: The other what now?
10:24<julienth37>petn-randall: don't know it's why I ask ^^
10:24<petn-randall>julienth37: I don't even know what you're asking for.
10:25<julienth37>petn-randall: just to pepole look at my conf file and if they want try it that all !
10:25<blast007>julienth37: bottom line is that you shouldn't mix stable and testing. so don't do that.
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10:27<blast007>if you want stuff from testing and don't want to backport them properly to stable, why not just run testing instead of stable?
10:28<julienth37>so tell me how you get php7.1 under stable ? oups only avaible in testing nor backports ^^ (I didn,t have the time to backports and maintain package aven I would love it)
10:28<julienth37>*not
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10:31<petn-randall>julienth37: That's when you build them yourself.
10:31<petn-randall>However, I doubt you'll find any PHP web application that runs only on 7.1, most apps haven't been updated to run on 7.0 yet.
10:32<petn-randall>And backporting the packages yourself is *safer* than pulling from testing.
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10:32<julienth37>petn-randall: tru but with the drop of 7.0 qt the end of the year I safer for my needs to use 7.1 or 7.2
10:33<julienth37>yup sqfer of course but need more time
10:33*petn-randall shrugs.
10:34<petn-randall>I've had this debate many times now, it's getting boring. If you want to take advice from this channel, backport the packages yourself. It's hardly any work, and you'll at least get support in this channel if it breaks.
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10:35<petn-randall>You never know if there's been an ABI bump in one of the libraries that the maintainer forgot about, which would cause breakage of your system if you start pulling from testing. And that's only one of the many subtle things that can horribly break if you mix stable/testing/unstable.
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10:43<blast007>julienth37: so why not just run testing then?
10:47<julienth37>blast007: because i think that testing only for php7.1 it's a bit too much (I use one LXC per server so a least there 1 or 2 thing + dependencies from testing per container)
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10:47<somiaj>if you plan on providing a server, testing is strongly discuraged just due to its slow security support
10:48<petn-randall>*non-existing
10:49<petn-randall>The security team doesn't care if bugs get fixed in testing or not. If a fix gets uploaded to sid and it's blocked due to an RC bug, it might takes weeks until it hits testing.
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10:49<petn-randall>Doesn't care because it's not covered by the security team.
10:50<Tuor_>Are the images from https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current-live/amd64/bt-hybrid/ writable to an usb-stick? example: "dd if=debian-live.iso of=/dev/sdb"
10:52<somiaj>it depends, I've seen some security bugs fixed in testing via s.d.o or have their wait time droped to 1 day to get them in, but overall it is rare, so yea don't expect timely seucirty support.
10:52<somiaj>Tuor_: yes, you can also just use cp
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10:55<Tuor_>somiaj, cp? How? it's an Iso file, yes I can mount it but which filesystem should i make on the usb-stick befor copying?
10:56<Tuor_>can I just use ext4 on the usb-stick and then copy all files with for example rsync -a /mnt/iso/* /mnt/usb-stick/ ?
10:56<Tuor_>or cp -a shure
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10:57<Tuor_>I'm downloading "debian live 9.3.0 kde". I'll try it when it's loaded.
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10:59<petn-randall>Tuor_: No, just use cp instead of dd, like this: "cp debian-live.iso /dev/sdb"
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11:00<petn-randall>Tuor_: The only difference is that cp is automatically scale the block size to write the image faster, whereas dd will only write 512 bytes at a time, which will likely be a lot slower.
11:00<Tuor>realy? lol ok. :) I never used cp to write an image...
11:01<Tuor>but basicly, both are *files* so why not^^
11:01<somiaj>you can even use cat. The debian install guide suggests cp as petn-randall says because cp has better defaults
11:02<Tuor_>usaly i tweek dd with bs=1M and then adding a sync at the end...
11:02<Tuor_>but that's a lot easyer. :)
11:05<Blacker47>just be sure your sdb or other destination is the right one. maybe use symlinks in /dev/disk/by-id/ to be safe.
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11:07<Tuor_>i check it every time with lsblk. :)
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11:08<vezult>OK, so it appears that the debian-cn.debian.org is a redirect specifically for kernel updates
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11:09<vezult>https://paste.debian.net/1004268/
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11:11<jonasw>so I upgraded from jessie to stretch; I am using libvirt with KVM and systemd-created cgroups, but for some reason, libvirt is unable to create the cpu cgroup:
11:12<petn-randall>jonasw: Are you also running the kernel from stretch?
11:12<jonasw>yes, I freshly rebooted
11:12<jonasw>so the cgroup is created via systemd at /sys/fs/cgroup/cpu/machine.slice/machine-jonas.slice/
11:12<jonasw>I use <partition>/machine/jonas</partition> in my VM definition
11:12<jonasw>libvirt fails to create the cgroup with: error: Failed to create controller cpu for group: No such file or directory
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11:13<jonasw>upon stracing, I find that it uses /sys/fs/cgroup/cpu,cpuacct/machine/jonas.partition/
11:13<jonasw>which is apparently the path for non-systemd deployments
11:13<jonasw>is there anything which could’ve gone wrong during the upgrade which makes libvirt believe this is a non-systemd system?
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11:18<jonasw>https://paste.debian.net/hidden/b0164bf3/ that’s how the grepped strace looks
11:19<jonasw>and according to <https://libvirt.org/cgroups.html#customPartiton>:
11:19<jonasw>> libvirt will automatically apply the platform specific translation required to get /machine/production.partition (non-systemd) or /machine.slice/machine-production.slice (systemd) as the underlying cgroup name
11:19<jonasw>so it seems that libvirt thinks that this is a non-systemd system.
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11:22<Tuor_>I'll try to boot from it. :)
11:23*Tuor_ has irc still open on it's second machine.
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11:30<petn-randall>jonasw: Does 'apt update && apt dist-upgrade' return anything? 'dpkg --configure -a' and 'apt-get install -f' run through fine?
11:32<jonasw>0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
11:32<jonasw>dpkg --configure -a has no output
11:32<dpkg>jonasw: bugger all, i dunno
11:32<jonasw>0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
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11:32<jonasw>petn-randall, ^
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11:35<petn-randall>jonasw: Can you paste the complete lot output of libvirtd? You can see it with 'journalctl -u libvirtd', or /var/log/daemon.log or syslog.
11:36<jonasw>when running virsh start test, it’s just one line: Jan 09 16:35:47 neptune.sotecware.net libvirtd[13336]: 2018-01-09 16:35:47.638+0000: 13337: error : virCgroupMakeGroup:1092 : Failed to create controller cpu for group: No such file or directory
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11:36<petn-randall>jonasw: Removed any obsolete packages? `aptitude purge ~o`
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11:39<jonasw>https://paste.debian.net/hidden/0c5f05d5/
11:39<jonasw>petn-randall, ^ this looks a bit creepy
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11:42<jonasw>I’m setting up a fresh stretch to see if this is related to the upgrade or more general currently.
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11:50<petn-randall>jonasw: What makes it creepy to you?
11:51<jonasw>the references to systemd made it creepy, but I by now found that those are deprecated
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11:52<jonasw>anyways; I reproduced this on a freshly installed stretch.
11:52<jonasw>I guess this is a case for reportbug?
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11:53<petn-randall>jonasw: I've got several stretch machines with libvirtd running fine, so I don't think it's a general problem.
11:53<jonasw>are you using resource partitioning?
11:53<jonasw>(it works with the defaults)
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11:53<petn-randall>jonasw: I didn't change much in the setup, only the way the network between the VMs is set up.
11:54<jonasw>virsh dumpxml $machinename | grep partition?
11:55<petn-randall>jonasw: I currently don't have access to those machines, I could check later. What is partitioning in this context?
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11:57<jonasw>cgroups
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11:57<jonasw>my use case is to assign CPU shares to the KVM guests
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11:58<jonasw>cf. https://libvirt.org/formatdomain.html#resPartition
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12:34<n_i_c_k>Has anyone gotten a serial console to work in stretch? For me, systemd is not being cooperative.
12:35<grawity>Works For Me™
12:35<grawity>systemctl enable --now serial-getty@ttyS0
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12:36<grawity>is generally automatic if you boot with console=ttyS0
12:36<n_i_c_k>grawity: yes, so I've read. Unfortunately, while the grub part works, systemd appears to fail, silently...
12:37<n_i_c_k>What I see it that while systemd claims the service is running, no serial console is available. However...
12:37<n_i_c_k>..if I run agetty from the command line, the console then works. Then after I stop agetty and start the systemd service again, the console now works...
12:38<grawity>it probably attempts a different speed than you're expecting
12:38<n_i_c_k>I.e. systemd's attempt to start the console fails until running agetty unwedges something, appartently.
12:38<grawity>send a few breaks over the serial line, watch what numbers `watch stty -F /dev/ttyS0` reports
12:39<n_i_c_k>grawity: if the speed was the problem, it would never work, no?
12:39<n_i_c_k>grawity: oh.. how do I send a break? From which direction?
12:39<grawity>that depends on how agetty is run
12:40<grawity>e.g. systemd (serial-getty@.service) runs it with 115200,38400,9600 --keep-baud
12:40<grawity>while your manual invocation might be resetting it to 9600 every time
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12:40<grawity>anyway, most serial terminal apps have a Break button or keyboard shortcut
12:41<n_i_c_k>Yes, that's what I have... and it does work *after* I've run agetty from a prompt. The other end is configured for 115200.
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12:41<n_i_c_k>I'll look for it. Apparently my problem isn't a general one then. Lucky me!
12:41<grawity>so, then, what does `stty -F /dev/ttyS0` report in the broken state (and in the working state)?
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12:42<n_i_c_k>grawity: I'll have to get myself set up to try it again, can't run it right now. But I'll attempt your suggestions and report back in a bit, hopefully. Thanks.
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12:53<n_i_c_k>grawity: I rebooted the server to get back to the nonworking state. 'stty -F /dev/ttyS0' says the speed is 9600 - so I think you were right about the speed being the issue. How do I persuade systemd to run it at the right speed? I haven't touched the installed config.
12:54<n_i_c_k>Perhaps if I delete the other speeds in the .service file...
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12:55<grawity>does your console= boot option specify 115200?
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12:56<n_i_c_k>grawity: yes-ish. I started with that, in grub, and removed it when it didn't work. The client minicom is configured for 115200.
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12:59<grawity>mine has "console=tty0 console=ttyS0,115200n8" and last I remember rebooting it, it seemed to work fine
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13:00<grawity>but if it still doesn't, you could `systemctl edit --full serial-getty@` and e.g. remove --keep-baud
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13:06<n_i_c_k>grawity: I think you fixed it! I replace the '--keep-baud' bit with '115200' and restarted the service. My client minicom now sees a prompt so I'm hopeful my problem is fixed. Thanks!
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13:12<annadane>attention: those on jessie, it's been patched now for meltdown
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13:20<n_i_c_k>grawity: in case you're still interested, it sort-of works now, sadly not very well. After the grub bit, the serial link seems stopped. But if I set the speed to 9600, then it works and I can enter my luks passphrase. Then it stops again until I put the speed back to 115200. It's not ideal but it's further than I was before.
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13:21<grawity>hmm that sounds a bit like the initramfs deliberately changing the speed
13:21<n_i_c_k>Maybe the combination of serial console plus encrypted disk is unusual? It doesn't seem to work too well :-(
13:21<grawity>(which would make sense, since otherwise I'd expect the kernel to keep ttyS0 at 115200 without the need to adjust getty)
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13:22<n_i_c_k>I think I'd best try to set everything to 9600 and hope that works better, if maybe more slowly.
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13:36<n_i_c_k>grawity: I've reverted to the installed systemd config, and change to 9600 for grub and the client minicom. It's not super fast but works smoothly now, no speed changes required. This is much better than before your help - thanks.
13:37<n_i_c_k>s/change/changed/
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14:35<crash_bandicoot02>it is possible to change the color to some folder in terminal with ls not to all the folder???
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14:45<retrospectacus>crash_bandicoot02: see `man dircolors`
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14:47<crash_bandicoot02>retrospectacus, but what will it be the commands to change some folder colors??
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14:50<crash_bandicoot02>retrospectacus, what i trying to do is to change color to some of the folder in the terminal view
14:50<crash_bandicoot02>not to all of them
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14:55<timeleft>Hello, I downloaded dropbox accordingly with the debian instructions, but it warns in readme file that " Thanks for downloading Dropbox! This is version 40.4.46 of the raw binary distribution of our syncing daemon. Normal users should not install this package manually "
14:56<timeleft>Did not get what it means why I shouldn't install in this way, how can I remove it?
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15:01<TobiX>timeleft: Well, that seems to be the official way to install it, according to https://www.dropbox.com/install-linux and https://wiki.debian.org/dropbox ...
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15:01<timeleft>true, but it did not create any launcher or command to launch it
15:02<timeleft>I installed .deb package afterwards and it started to work, I am just curious if I should remove something related with it because of the warning
15:02<annadane>i'd not install random .deb from the internet
15:02<annadane>!don't break debian
15:02<dpkg>somebody said dont break debian was https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian
15:03<TobiX>I think the deb is not recommened on current Debian systems, since it depends on obsolete packages IIRC
15:04<retrospectacus>crash_bandicoot02: I don't know. It doesn't seem possible
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15:05<user_>WOw
15:05<crash_bandicoot02>retrospectacus, ok
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15:10<timeleft>annadane: I installed it from official dropbox page
15:10<timeleft>Still has chance to break debian?
15:10<timeleft>It was not on the repo so I had no choice for that
15:10<timeleft>Also same will go for nextcloud it seems
15:10<annadane>probably, but it's also just a security thing; dropbox is a proprietary application, you want it to gain access to your machine?
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15:11<timeleft>Well you have a point, so pray tell how can I remove the thing I installed with cd ~ && wget -O - "https://www.dropbox.com/download?plat=lnx.x86" | tar xzf - and afterwards ~/.dropbox-dist/dropboxd commands?
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15:17<annadane>i'm not certain, sorry
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15:18<TobiX>timeleft: Considering I may have done random things to your system: If you are that paranoid: Format, reinstall...
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15:19<TobiX>s/I/it/
15:19<TobiX>;)
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15:20<timeleft>not that paranoid but it is quite disturbing to have stg. on the machine which I have no idea what it does
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15:23<TobiX>WEll, remove the .dropbox-dist directory and make sure the daemon isn't running anymore...
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15:24<leewdch>how can I generate a new locale? when I try to locale-gen it says command not found
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15:25<TobiX>Personlly, I don't understand why people run free operation systems and then give one company (Dropbox, Google, etc.) blanket access to all their personal files via a closed-source component... But that's just grumpy old me ;)
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15:26<TobiX>leewdch: "sudo dpkg-reconfigure locales"
15:26<timeleft>tobix: thank you. Gonna remove that directory and hoping that it will be enough to remove daemon. You are also quite right about companies, that is why I am removing it rite now
15:26<timeleft>nextcloud is my favourite but now I am struggling to install it on debian ATM
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15:28<leewdch>thank you!
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15:51<annadane>timeleft, downloading nextcloud for me is just a zip folder, you don't need to "install it"
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15:52<annadane>in general there's a lot of applications that you don't need to install at all; many of them come in tar archives and such
15:52<annadane>see https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian#Some_safer_ways_to_install_software_not_available_in_Debian_Stable
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16:14<timeleft>annadane, really sorry to bother with noob questions but for install file i only foundhttps://nextcloud.com/install/ adddress, will download it from there
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16:14<timeleft>peazip also doesn't work, addded multiarch but no chance
16:14<timeleft>i am learning, it is fun, but really challenging
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16:16<retrospectacus>a lesson best learnt early is, just use the software provided in the official debian repositories.
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16:21<timeleft>retrospectacus: Always trying that, but some of them are not available in the offical repos
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16:21<timeleft>I try not to install unless I really have to but still..
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16:22<ignorance>retrospectacus....witch is lite graphical
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16:23<bremner>wut?
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16:24<ignorance>paggage manager...er...never mind...i try learn more language first
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16:26<somiaj>ignorance: window manager?
16:26<somiaj>ignorance: xfce and lxde are the light desktop enviorments, and debian offers most window managers as well.
16:28<ignorance>mine is xfce but i would need repository manager that is lite...on X11...or was that gibberish
16:28<somiaj>window manager I think is what you are asking for.
16:28<somiaj>https://wiki.debian.org/WindowManager
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16:35<ignorance>is ubuntu 14.04 security risk?
16:35<towo`>is off topic here in the 1st time
16:36<towo`>and yes, it's EOL
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16:37<ignorance>thanks towo`
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16:40<b17>ignorance: repository manager = package manager, I don't know any light ones for X
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16:40<ignorance>thanks b17
16:41<b17>aptitude is great though in a terminal
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16:44<ignorance>I really want to go to debian...how to convert...i need speed, stability, security on old laptop V45 Esprimo Mobile V5545
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16:47<ignorance>maybe it was too mutch to ask for...sorry to flood
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16:50<retrospectacus>dpkg: tell ignorance about install debian
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16:53<ignorance>do i need to know how to use fdisk on terminal to secure hard drive?
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16:55<ignorance>and no cd :.(....
16:56<ignorance>i need usb image howto or that spell of code to write on paper to do usb bootable
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16:58<b17>ignorance: it's all on here in about 20 languages https://www.debian.org/distrib/
16:59<ignorance>puuf....thanks....hope debian teach me on right manners...
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16:59<ignorance>tried already slitaz but it was too hardcore for me to make everything work
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17:01<b17>don't give up even my kid brother did it
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17:02<retrospectacus>timeleft: you "really have to" install peazip? Debian can handle almost all compression formats out of the box. Then you can install unrar, p7zip or others from the official sources if you need
17:02<ignorance>sad cause today is my birthday and I will be 35 years old at 22.45
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17:04<retrospectacus>Happy birthday. I am also 35 :)
17:05<timeleft>retrospectacus: I am allso 35 and happy birthday:)) I use it as it has a better encryption system that we use as a family members and among co-workers
17:05<timeleft>I installed it with success now, after multiarch and downloading i386 package
17:05<timeleft>I am a slow learner but I am very stubborn
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17:09<ignorance>I got first pc when i was at college...18years I think....what is best filesystem for debian and shoud I use how big root home and where I but the internet shit that it wont kill my system when like to whack my self with pron ;D
17:10<ignorance>is it var for internet shit or...how to ignore flash problems?
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17:13<ignorance>ok ok I go read that f...in manual.......yeeesh how many time I need to read these things to learn...thanks still
17:14<cef>ignorance: sorry we're not always here.. we have lives too you know. ;)
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17:15<timeleft>cef: Still this place is the most helpful, especially compared to neckbeards in the official forum
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17:16<cef>ignorance: the installer chooses a default / (root) size if you let it, but if you're installing lots of stuff it can be a bit small. default I think for / the default for stretch is 10GB. I just set up my g/f's machine (she uses things like R and various science tools) with 30GB for /. Just used the rest for /home.
17:17<cef>as for /var, it's for logs and also somewhat for hosting files (eg: if you're running a website on the same machine), though you can always redirect that elsewhere.
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17:20<ignorance>what hacker say for good hometolivelike / size...what is good size tamper if i like that some old beard take control of my root some times if some shit happens
17:21<cef>if you're just web browsing though, the cache is somewhere in your home directory (location depends on the browser). Given all the issues with Meltdown/Spectre though keep your browsers up to date, and tools like noscript (Firefox) and ScriptBlock) are recommended to stop pages automatically running javascript
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17:22<ignorance>is aurora better than fox or is fox still cunning fast and aurora bear that just poops on it?
17:23<cef>for an average user / at 15-20G is plenty. /home you caq just use as much of the disk as you like. your choice. it's where you store your personal stuff.
17:24<ignorance>cef nice to hear raw talk...tought teachers are strict in points
17:27<ignorance>internet is really fustrating sometimes for add...near Rain Man like...when some if is learned false way
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17:28<ignorance>sorry that crazy talk
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17:30<ignorance>i just sometimes feel like living in russia that I have this old laptops and get alway old stuff but it would be fun to be wizard to make there nice old toys alive again that even child can play on it and wont hurt secure nett
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17:33<ignorance>my dream is to have that asus eee PC "fly" and even be a notebook to carry in jacket
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17:35<ignorance>can xchat connect multiple servers?
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17:36<ignorance>seems like putty is better to use chatservers
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18:57<Guest1557>Hi, I have a question about the meltdown/spectre attack. If I understand correctly Intel will upgrade their processors microcode to mitigate the attacks. In Debian this microcode is in intel-microcode package from non-free repository. Does it mean that I have to install intel-microcode to be safe from the attacks? Also: is it safe for my system to install intel-microcode or it can contain a backdoor?
18:58<noahm>intel-microcode is indeed non-free. you have no real way of knowing what they put in that package.
18:58<noahm>however, you _know_ that the microcode you're running right now has issues.
18:58<noahm>so you're not any worse off for not updating.
18:58<noahm>s/not//
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19:00<Guest1557>@noahm: thanks for the answer!
19:00<Guest1557>will upgrade then
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19:08<TobiX>Guest1557: And currently nobody outside of Intel knows how those microcode update work... Well. There is reveng work: https://media.ccc.de/v/34c3-9058-everything_you_want_to_know_about_x86_microcode_but_might_have_been_afraid_to_ask
19:09<TobiX>dpkg: microcode
19:09<dpkg>Microcode are instructions/structures for implementing high-level machine code within processors. The Linux kernel can load updated microcode on most x86 processors. Microcode patches for Intel and AMD64 CPUs are packaged for Debian as intel-microcode and amd64-microcode respectively; installing the relevant package is recommended to ensure system stability. Ask me about <non-free sources>. http://wiki.debian.org/Microcode
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19:11<Guest1557>@TobiX: too bad we need something from non-free to be safe... or rather 'safe'
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19:13<TobiX>Guest1557: Well, the inner workings of your CPU are non-free...
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19:13<TobiX>Unless you are running something like OpenSparc or RISC-V
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19:15<TobiX>Guest1557: If you are running CoreBoot, you can do the microcode update there and skip the microcode update from "userspace"...
19:15<sem>ei
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19:18<Guest1557>are there any 'average user' devices with RISC yet? IIRC Purism Librem phone will use some 'non standard' CPU (non Intel, AMD. ARM). And I think their laptops use coreboot. Any other devices?
19:22<TobiX>No, RISC-V isn't that far along. You can get some embedded chips (AFAIK NVIDIA is already embedding RISC-V in their CPUs)...
19:22<TobiX>WD is probably using RISC-V in their hard disc controllers
19:25<Guest1557>seems it will take a few more years for computers
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20:03<idiotphanes>join #linux
20:04<idiotphanes>enter programming
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21:23<keycollector>Is it currently possible to get the experimental 4.15 kernel?
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21:39<keycollector>Or better yet, how do i compile the kernel from source from "https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/commit/?id=b2cd1df66037e7c4697c7e40496bf7e4a5e16a2d"?
21:39<keycollector>Assuming this is the only place i can get 4.15.
21:39<keycollector>I need display support features avalible only in 4.15 ATM.
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22:09<keycollector>how do i compile the kernel from source from "https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/commit/?id=b2cd1df66037e7c4697c7e40496bf7e4a5e16a2d"?Assuming this is the only place i can get 4.15.I need display support features avalible only in 4.15 ATM.
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22:12<blast007>https://wiki.debian.org/BuildingKernelFromUpstreamSources
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22:14<keycollector>I will read into this. Thanks
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23:31<keycollector>still trying to build the 4.15 kernel and failing here https://paste.gnome.org/pybk53eud
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23:43<Sveta>keycollector: there got to be a better place to ask this
23:45<Sveta>keycollector: you need to install bc, i know how to install it using apt but not otherwise
23:45<Sveta>keycollector: https://packages.debian.org/stretch/bc
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23:51<mak>hi
23:52<keycollector>Just found that out before you posted it. Also installed a couple other packages. Its been going for 5 min with no errors, might be good this time
23:52<mak>uhh
23:52<keycollector>Sveta: apprieciate the help though
23:52<keycollector>and hi Mak
23:52<mak>hi
23:52<mak>im new here
23:53<mak>brb
23:53<Sveta>hi mak
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23:54-!-KindOne is "..." on #utdlug #suckless #qemu #php #ovirt #osm #oftc @#mirc #linuxfs #libevent #https-everywhere #globaleaks #gentoo #gcc #g7 #freenode #debian-next #debian #debconf #ceph #bcache #awesome
23:54-!-prahal [~prahal@ARouen-653-1-89-217.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #debian
23:54-!-prahal is "Alban Browaeys" on #debian #bcache
23:54-!-thunderrd [~thunderrd@thunderrd.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
23:54-!-thunderrd is "realname" on #oftc #tor @#GamersOnLinux #siduction #debian #ck
23:55-!-thunderrd [~thunderrd@thunderrd.user.oftc.net] has quit []
23:58-!-makpafis3 [~makpafis3@adsl-75-0-12-93.dsl.renocs.sbcglobal.net] has joined #debian
23:58-!-makpafis3 is "makail" on #debian
23:58<makpafis3>hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
23:58<Sveta>hi mak
23:59<keycollector>Welcome
23:59<makpafis3>sup
23:59<Sveta>greetings :) pardon?
23:59<makpafis3>i love scratch
---Logclosed Wed Jan 10 00:00:35 2018