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#debian IRC Logs for 2018-01-19

---Logopened Fri Jan 19 00:00:07 2018
---Daychanged Fri Jan 19 2018
00:00-!-Darcidride__ [~Quentin@194.2.202.81] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:00-!-chomwitt [~chomwitt@2a02:587:dc08:a00:b9bd:e872:6345:4f56] has joined #debian
00:00-!-chomwitt is "chomwitt" on #debian #debian-games
00:01-!-Darcidride_ [~Quentin@194.2.202.81] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:02-!-Vollstrecker [~vollstrec@p200300E19BD0E7000A606EFFFE4490F9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #debian
00:02-!-Vollstrecker is "Werner Mahr" on #debian-kde #debian
00:03-!-cyphase [~cyphase@000134f2.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
00:03-!-cyphase is "Cyphase" on #awesome #debian #virt #guardianproject #gcc #powerdns @#p4xriddle #osm-dev #debian-offtopic #love #debconf #ceph-devel #ceph @#house.md @#heroes @#lost #debian-next #debian-mentors #osm #suckless #qemu @#PrisonBreak
00:03-!-schoppenhauer2 is "css" on #bitlbee
00:03-!-schoppenhauer2 [~schoppenh@ppp-188-174-114-40.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #debian
00:04-!-tonyyarusso [~anthony@tonyyarusso.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:04-!-schoppenhauer1 [~schoppenh@ppp-188-174-105-6.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:04-!-dboehmer___ [~quassel@p5DD9D95C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #debian
00:04-!-dboehmer___ is "Daniel B\xF6hmer,,," on #debian
00:05-!-cedric [~cedric@control.slider.be] has joined #debian
00:05-!-cedric is "cedric" on #debian
00:06-!-Q-Master^Work [~q-master@217.175.38.170] has joined #debian
00:06-!-Q-Master^Work is "Vladimir Berezenko" on #debian #debian-next #debianppc
00:07-!-dboehmer_ [~quassel@p5DD9E1A0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:10-!-iflema [~ian@203-217-47-233.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: iflema]
00:14-!-babyflakes is "p4cman" on #moocows #linux-rt #perf #sched #iovisor #debian-systemd #freebsd #bcache #linuxfs #gcc #slackware #ext4 #storage #pdxpenguins
00:14-!-babyflakes [uid171740@id-171740.charlton.irccloud.com] has joined #debian
00:25-!-AfroThundr [~AfroThund@pool-71-244-241-187.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:29-!-AfroThundr [~AfroThund@pool-71-244-241-187.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #debian
00:29-!-AfroThundr is "Eddie J Carswell II" on #debian #debian-next #debian-offtopic
00:30-!-llun [~llun@203.118.52.30] has joined #debian
00:30-!-llun is "llun" on #debian #tlwg
00:30-!-user [~user@186.144.114.224] has joined #debian
00:30-!-user is "realname" on #debian
00:30-!-user [~user@186.144.114.224] has quit []
00:31-!-cnote [~cnote@pool-72-80-155-27.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:36-!-libregeekingkid [~libregeek@103.44.137.67] has joined #debian
00:36-!-libregeekingkid is "libregeekingkid" on #debian-next #debian-arm #debian-diaspora #fsci #debian #debian-boot #debian-gnome #debian-in #hamara #debian-rust #debian-ruby #debian-browserify
00:37-!-llun [~llun@203.118.52.30] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
00:38-!-llun [~llun@203.118.52.30] has joined #debian
00:38-!-llun is "llun" on #debian #tlwg
00:38-!-libregeekingkid [~libregeek@103.44.137.67] has quit []
00:42-!-ntox [~ntox@mobile-166-172-63-59.mycingular.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
00:43-!-jm_ [flier@000125af.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
00:43-!-jm_ is "." on #debian #debian-ops
00:46-!-dvs [~hibbard@00012127.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
00:46-!-dvs is "realname" on #debian
00:48-!-dvs [~hibbard@00012127.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:49-!-grawity [grawity@virgule.cluenet.org] has joined #debian
00:49-!-grawity is "Mantas Mikulėnas <grawity@gmail.com>" on #debian-next #debian #linode #debian-systemd
00:50-!-tonyyarusso [~anthony@tonyyarusso.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
00:50-!-tonyyarusso is "Anthony Yarusso" on #linode #debian
00:50-!-tonyyarusso [~anthony@tonyyarusso.user.oftc.net] has quit []
00:50-!-ach [~spooky@178.24.243.161] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:50-!-tonyyarusso is "Anthony Yarusso" on #linode #debian
00:50-!-tonyyarusso [~anthony@tonyyarusso.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
00:52-!-ach [~spooky@ipb218f3a1.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined #debian
00:52-!-ach is "spooky" on #debian
00:55-!-futex [~quassel@2001:41d0:52:300::70a] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:01-!-marcus [~marcus@c-3d2072d5.014-990-7570702.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #debian
01:01-!-marcus is "Marcus Lundblad" on #debian #osm.se-spam #OSM.se #debian-gnome
01:04-!-ol [~quassel@2406:e006:fb7:1:8e89:a5ff:feca:57fe] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:05-!-libregeekingkid [~libregeek@103.44.137.67] has joined #debian
01:05-!-libregeekingkid is "libregeekingkid" on #debian-next #debian-arm #debian-diaspora #fsci #debian #debian-boot #debian-gnome #debian-in #hamara #debian-rust #debian-ruby #debian-browserify
01:05-!-ach [~spooky@ipb218f3a1.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:09-!-chomwitt [~chomwitt@2a02:587:dc08:a00:b9bd:e872:6345:4f56] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:09-!-ach [~spooky@ipb218f3a1.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined #debian
01:09-!-ach is "spooky" on #debian
01:13-!-Beowulf [~sanct@24-179-179-137.dhcp.stcd.mn.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:13-!-samchick [~samchick@h62-133-162-99.dyn.bashtel.ru] has joined #debian
01:13-!-samchick is "realname" on #debian
01:14-!-samchick [~samchick@h62-133-162-99.dyn.bashtel.ru] has quit []
01:17-!-Hotpot33 [~Hot_Pot@50.7.115.55] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:19-!-marcus [~marcus@c-3d2072d5.014-990-7570702.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:20-!-PoquerMcBeerdy[m] [~poquermcb@2001:470:1af1:101::b5d] has joined #debian
01:20-!-PoquerMcBeerdy[m] is "@PoquerMcBeerdy:matrix.org" on #debian #torontocrypto
01:20-!-muka [~muka@184.101.62.155] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:21-!-ach [~spooky@ipb218f3a1.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.6.5+deb1 - http://znc.in]
01:21-!-ach [~spooky@178.24.243.161] has joined #debian
01:21-!-ach is "spooky" on #debian
01:21-!-hendrikL [~hhl@00012f3f.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: hendrikL]
01:23-!-hendrikL [~hhl@00012f3f.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
01:23-!-hendrikL is "hhl" on #oftc #siduction-manual #debian-next #debian-systemd #lxde #debian #debian-kde #debian-lxqt #aptosid #siduction-de #siduction #siduction-dev #siduction-art #frickelplatz
01:28-!-Hotpot33 [~Hot_Pot@50.7.115.55] has joined #debian
01:28-!-Hotpot33 is "WUT" on #virt #tor #qemu #oftc #linode #fsci #debian #ceph
01:33-!-earthundead [~earthunde@91.239.69.160] has joined #debian
01:33-!-earthundead is "realname" on #debian
01:36-!-ach [~spooky@178.24.243.161] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:36-!-engine40 [~engine40@202.160.38.251] has joined #debian
01:36-!-engine40 is "realname" on #debian
01:38-!-marcus [~marcus@gatekeeper.primekey.se] has joined #debian
01:38-!-marcus is "Marcus Lundblad" on #debian #osm.se-spam #OSM.se #debian-gnome
01:42-!-ach [~spooky@ipb218f2f6.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined #debian
01:42-!-ach is "spooky" on #debian
01:44-!-csnxs [sean@2a01:7e00:e000:187:666:666:666:666] has joined #debian
01:44-!-csnxs is "nerd" on #tor-project #oftc #odamex #moocows #linode #digitalocean #debian-next #debian #ck #TheClub @#CLUB>
01:48-!-engine40 [~engine40@202.160.38.251] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
01:48-!-Stummi [~Stummi@stummi.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
01:49-!-Stummi [~Stummi@stummi.org] has joined #debian
01:49-!-Stummi is "Michael Stummvoll" on #suckless #openjdk #open-source-java #debian #debian-next
01:54-!-tetrapovicc [~trifyl@2a01:cb19:85b4:db00:224:8cff:fe4f:fe7d] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
01:56-!-ciampix [~Marco@46.226.205.27] has joined #debian
01:56-!-ciampix is "Marco Ciampa" on #debian-it #debian #freedombox #oftc #osm-it #osm #sisu #po4a #geda
02:02-!-blast007 [~blast007@000129ae.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
02:02-!-tajnyman [tajnyman@0001f34d.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
02:03-!-nicolasG [~nicolas@0x4dd5c644.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #debian
02:03-!-nicolasG is "Nicolas Guilbert" on #debian-kde #debian
02:04-!-sidmo_ [~ilven@p5B3D8C92.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
02:06-!-sidmo [~ilven@p5B3D8C92.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #debian
02:06-!-sidmo is "sidmo" on #debian-systemd #debian-next #debian-offtopic #debian-kde #debian
02:07-!-chele [~chele@00022067.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
02:07-!-chele is "chele" on #transparencytoolkit #debian-next #debian
02:10-!-phorce1 [~gvl2@70.118.99.122] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
02:10-!-phorce1 [~gvl2@70.118.99.122] has joined #debian
02:10-!-phorce1 is "Gerald" on #debian
02:14-!-nielsle [~nielsle@3239219-cl69.boa.fiberby.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:15-!-Natureshadow [~Naturesha@commu.teckids.org] has joined #debian
02:15-!-Natureshadow is "Dominik George" on #debian #debian-edu
02:16-!-nicolasG [~nicolas@0x4dd5c644.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:21-!-l14n [~Lian@85.159.233.11] has joined #debian
02:21-!-l14n is "Lian" on #debian
02:22-!-devbaka [~devbaka@81.14.168.152] has joined #debian
02:22-!-devbaka is "realname" on #debian-gnome #debian-games #debian
02:22-!-REiN [~kernel@212.3.152.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:24-!-TomasCZ [~TomasCZ@yes.tenlab.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
02:24-!-nielsle [~nielsle@3239219-cl69.boa.fiberby.dk] has joined #debian
02:24-!-nielsle is "realname" on #debian #debian-next
02:27-!-lazurn [~mint@140-56-132-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #debian
02:27-!-lazurn is "Live session user" on #debian
02:29-!-lazurn [~mint@140-56-132-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit []
02:29-!-resmo [~moserre@109-60-239-77.dyn.cable.fcom.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
02:30-!-debalance [~quassel@aftr-88-153-7-122.unity-media.net] has joined #debian
02:30-!-debalance is "Philipp Huebner" on #debian-qa #debian #debian-kde #debian-devel-changes
02:32-!-lazurn [~mint@140-56-132-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #debian
02:32-!-lazurn is "Live session user" on #debian
02:32<lazurn>1230103
02:32<lazurn>123103
02:34-!-ao2 [~ao2@87.19.20.147] has joined #debian
02:34-!-ao2 is "ao2" on #debian #cell
02:34-!-sadrak|work [~ostmann@p54880319.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #debian
02:34-!-sadrak|work is "purple" on #debian
02:34-!-lazurn [~mint@140-56-132-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit []
02:42-!-Texou [~Texou@000178ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:43-!-libregeekingkid [~libregeek@103.44.137.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:46-!-nasd4 [~nasd41@ip1f13c7f8.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined #debian
02:46-!-nasd4 is "realname" on #freedombox #debian
02:47-!-nasd4 [~nasd41@ip1f13c7f8.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has quit []
02:48-!-sqirrrl [~quassel@firey.lsexperts.de] has joined #debian
02:48-!-sqirrrl is "Mirko Ahnert" on #debian
02:49-!-nicolasG [~nicolas@0189801049.3.fullrate.ninja] has joined #debian
02:49-!-nicolasG is "Nicolas Guilbert" on #debian-kde #debian
02:50-!-narcan [~narcan@176-57-33-240.as16211.net] has joined #debian
02:50-!-narcan is "Denis Briand" on #debian-localgroups #debian-mentors #debian-next #debian-offtopic #debian-france #debian
02:51-!-wavekidsjp [~wavekidsj@h219-110-18-091.catv02.itscom.jp] has joined #debian
02:51-!-wavekidsjp is "wavekidsjp" on #debian
02:51-!-ksn [~ksn@00019501.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
02:51-!-ksn is "ksn" on #debian-mentors #debian
02:55-!-ansel [~ansel@2003:5b:203b:100:6af7:28ff:fe06:801] has joined #debian
02:55-!-ansel is "Andreas Seltenreich" on #debian
02:57-!-phorce1 [~gvl2@70.118.99.122] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
02:57-!-phorce1 [~gvl2@70.118.99.122] has joined #debian
02:57-!-phorce1 is "Gerald" on #debian
02:59-!-MorpheusB [~morpheusb@141.255.166.197] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1]
03:01-!-AzaToth [~azatoth@h87-96-232-219.cust.se.alltele.net] has joined #debian
03:01-!-AzaToth is "Carl Fürstenberg" on #debian-perl #debian-mentors #debian
03:03-!-andre_ [~smuxi@p5B3FE430.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #debian
03:03-!-andre_ is "andre" on #debian #smuxi
03:05-!-ach [~spooky@ipb218f2f6.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:11-!-babache [~smuxi@37.168.138.84] has joined #debian
03:11-!-babache is "babache" on #debian
03:12-!-Drzacek [~Drzacek@b941c009.business.dg-w.de] has joined #debian
03:12-!-Drzacek is "realname" on #debian #debian-next
03:12-!-ach [~spooky@ipb218f39d.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined #debian
03:12-!-ach is "spooky" on #debian
03:15-!-ph0b0s_ [~ph0b0s@adsl-69.79.107.43.tellas.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
03:16<Sveta>in debian stretch, workspace appearance section is missing in kde. how to bring it back? where can I download jessie live kde image?
03:16-!-ph0b0s [~ph0b0s@adsl-69.79.107.43.tellas.gr] has joined #debian
03:16-!-ph0b0s is "ph0b0s" on #debian
03:17-!-briner [~briner@2001:620:600:16:9340:4e88:467f:5dd4] has joined #debian
03:17-!-briner is "BRINER Cédric" on #debian
03:18-!-nicolasG [~nicolas@0189801049.3.fullrate.ninja] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:18-!-leatherface [~julien@89.87.189.250] has joined #debian
03:18-!-leatherface is "julien" on #debian
03:18-!-llun is now known as nat3
03:18-!-awal1 [~awal1@dsl-67-230-141-87.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
03:18-!-nat3 [~llun@00013172.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
03:18-!-jlbg [~jlbg@126.45.14.62.static.jazztel.es] has joined #debian
03:18-!-jlbg is "realname" on #debian-es #kernelnewbies #freebsd #debian
03:19-!-chinzu [~chinzu@194.78.203.96] has joined #debian
03:19-!-chinzu is "chinzu" on #debian
03:21-!-nicolasG [~nicolas@0189801049.3.fullrate.ninja] has joined #debian
03:21-!-nicolasG is "Nicolas Guilbert" on #debian-kde #debian
03:21<Sveta>https://cdimage.debian.org/mirror/cdimage/archive/ hmm maybe i already found it
03:23-!-andre_ [~smuxi@p5B3FE430.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:23-!-skitt [~skitt@skitt.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
03:23-!-skitt is "Stephen Kitt" on #debian #debian-ftp
03:24<chinzu>good morning
03:24<Sveta>hi
03:26-!-debalance [~quassel@00017b9a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
03:26<enyc>evening
03:28-!-abpostelnicu [~sid821@2620:101:8016:74::5:335] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:29-!-abpostelnicu [~sid821@2620:101:8016:74::5:335] has joined #debian
03:29-!-abpostelnicu is "abpostelnicu" on #security #debian #slackware
03:30-!-disposable2 [~Thunderbi@213.164.31.89] has joined #debian
03:30-!-disposable2 is "disposable2" on @#linux-ha #ovirt #ceph #debian
03:30-!-dcraig [craig@00017371.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
03:30-!-kenyon [kenyon@darwin.kenyonralph.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
03:30-!-giaur [~quassel@public-gprs369107.centertel.pl] has joined #debian
03:30-!-giaur is "giaur" on #debian
03:32-!-gturner [~gturner@zoth-ommog.unzane.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:34-!-Thorgrin [~Thorgrin@ip4-95-82-172-158.cust.nbox.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
03:34-!-ach [~spooky@ipb218f39d.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:35-!-gturner [~gturner@zoth-ommog.unzane.com] has joined #debian
03:35-!-gturner is "Gerald Turner" on #debian-pdx #debian
03:35-!-kathenas [~kathenas@185.41.231.204] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
03:36-!-ach [~spooky@ipb218f2db.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined #debian
03:36-!-ach is "spooky" on #debian
03:37-!-devbaka [~devbaka@81.14.168.152] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:38-!-chinzu [~chinzu@194.78.203.96] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
03:40-!-nicolasG [~nicolas@0189801049.3.fullrate.ninja] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:40-!-kathenas [~kathenas@185.41.231.204] has joined #debian
03:40-!-kathenas is "Phil Wyett" on #debian #debian-systemd #debian-arm #debian-boot #debian-gnome #debian-reproducible #debian-bugs #debian-www #debconf #debian-qa #debian-offtopic #debian-mentors #debian-derivatives #debian-live #debian-next
03:40-!-kmshanah [~kmshanah@pa49-178-17-172.pa.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #debian
03:40-!-kmshanah is "Kevin Shanahan" on #debian
03:42-!-kmshanah_ [~kmshanah@pa49-178-16-253.pa.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:43-!-deltam [~deltam@00026634.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
03:43-!-nicolasG [~nicolas@0189801049.3.fullrate.ninja] has joined #debian
03:43-!-nicolasG is "Nicolas Guilbert" on #debian-kde #debian
03:44-!-deltam [~deltam@00026634.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
03:44-!-deltam is "David Margerison" on #virt #qemu #oftc #lxde #debian-offtopic #debian-next #debian-mentors #debian-live #debian-au #debian
03:47-!-futex [~quassel@2001:41d0:52:300::70a] has joined #debian
03:47-!-futex is "futex" on #debian #debian-next
03:48-!-fstd_ [~fstd@xdsl-87-78-139-40.netcologne.de] has joined #debian
03:48-!-fstd_ is "fstd" on #gentoo #linuxfs #gcc #awesome #oftc #vserver #suckless #osm #linode #debian #kernelnewbies
03:48-!-giaur [~quassel@public-gprs369107.centertel.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
03:48-!-dcraig [craig@00017371.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
03:48-!-dcraig is "dcraig" on #oftc #debian #linode-beta #tardigans #moocows #linode
03:49-!-Edhil [~edhil@000266d3.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
03:49-!-Edhil is "One of the last" on #debian-welcome #debian
03:50-!-Texou [~Texou@000178ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
03:50-!-Texou is "Jean-Philippe MENGUAL" on #debian #debian-es #debian-it #debian-devel-es #debian-devel-it #debian-mate #debian-l10n-fr #nvda #brltty #debian-a11y
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05:04<raavan>hows it
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05:06<digitalboy>Hi guys, I would like to compile the Debian kernel from source, I've copied the kernel config from /boot (config-4.9.0-4-amd64) to the kernel source directory, renamed it to .config and then built it (make), I've noticed that in the kernel source directory the drivers subdirectory is 8GB, is this the regular size of the official kernel? Because if I look in /lib/modules (du -h) I see that the entire
05:06<digitalboy>directory is around 185MB, also the produced kernel differs in size, the one in /boot "weights" 4.1MB where the one compiled by me is 4.3MB, how is so? Could someone please explain it to me? Sorry for the newbie questions btw..
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05:13<Chinzu>Hi, I'm a noob c++ learner and in a course I'm following on the web, they said that I must use a constant to define an array, but they didn't explain why. Can you enlight me with that ?
05:13<tarzeau>digitalboy: could be a different c compiler version and different options?
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05:14<tarzeau>Chinzu: if the array contents doesn't get changed it can be constant? everything that doesn't change can be const (like pi)
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05:18<Chinzu>Sorry it is for the array's size they said I must use the const.
05:20<tarzeau>can you paste the exact line with the const char*[] whatever you have?
05:20<tarzeau>i wonder why people still learn c++, when there's objective-c and swift...
05:21<grove>Chinzu: This channel is about debian, not C++. That being said: It's been a long time since I cared about C/C++, but what they mean might just be that if you declare an array to have foo (a variable) elements, the current (at the time of the declaration) value of foo is used, so if you later change the value of foo, it does not affect the size of the array
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05:23<digitalboy>tarzeau: Hmm, I haven't modified the kernel config copied from /boot so I don't think that could be, however I don't know about compiler version.. But how can I reduce the kernel "drivers" subdirectory? It's huge!
05:23<Chinzu>hooos orry wrong channel XD
05:23<grove>Chinzu: So using a const eliminates one source of confusion, but I think (as I said, it's been a long time since I cared) using a variable is allowed
05:24<Chinzu>but thank you for your answer !!
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05:26<tarzeau>digitalboy: it's all the drivers that are enabled in the .config :) debian wants to support as much hw as possible
05:27<tarzeau>digitalboy: i think there's a debian way of kernel compiling, i don't remember the factoid
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05:50<joelkraehemann>hi all
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05:54<Guest2218>Hi, I'm a newbie here
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05:55<dfceaef[m]>!ask
05:55<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
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06:07<lariso>clavier azerty sur ubuntu --- please azerty keyboard
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06:07<digitalboy>tarzeau: Oh, ok understood :D Perhaps do you know a way to build only the kernel modules of an installed system? Like the directory /lib/modules which is 185MB and not 8GB?
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06:29<jm_>digitalboy: maybe try if 'make localmodconfig' works for you
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07:06<digitalboy>jm_: Thank you! I'll try!
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07:08<digitalboy>jm_: Is this similar to what the Debian installer does when you install it in a PC?
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07:10<jm_>digitalboy: no, that's the make target available when one compiles linux kernel from source
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07:11<digitalboy>jm_: Ok, so when Debian install itself on an hard-drive does it "detects" the hardware and copy only the required modules to the target machine? And a generic kernel?
07:11<digitalboy>jm_: Thank you for the replies btw :)
07:12<jm_>digitalboy: installer doesn't really do anything specific - these days modules have built-in aliases for this purpose, i.e. try modinfo on some modules loaded on your system and look at alias: lines
07:12<jm_>digitalboy: no problem
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07:13<jm_>digitalboy: kernel modules are part of the kernel package - it always has all modules on file system
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07:23<denisbr>Hi all. Have any project using debian for learning algorithms and/or programation for kids and teens students?
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07:38<bremner>denisbr: did you look at debian-edu?
07:40<denisbr>bremner, Yes i´m looking
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09:52<user01>hi my laptop just wont connect to the building wifi . . .my phone does and my other laptop does -- it detects the essid i've triple checked the password, it tries to connect then fails
09:53<user01>how can i get a log of what happens when it tries to connect?
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10:07<Anarka>dont you get a log under /var/log/syslog
10:07<Anarka>with wpa stuff
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10:17<user01>Anarka, i just noticed that the network manager applet has a different mac address i think than what i see from command line
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10:21<petn-randall>user01: Do you know the wifi chipset you have? You can check with 'lspci -nn'.
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10:24<user01>petn-randall, intel wireless 8260
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10:26<Sandy>If we can upgrade our debian, O/S patches can be self-contained?
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10:27<Sandy>That means the Debian system is not connected to internet and we need to download patches from internet on another system and the patch to Debian to be upgraded?
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10:27<Sandy>any idea how to download the patches and then we install them locally on our debian to be upgraded?
10:28<Sandy>Thanks for any advises!!!
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10:29<user01>iwlwifi from the load "microcode SW error detected"
10:29<user01>let me google that
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10:33<user01>eh it suggested looking at iw reg get in the list
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10:34<user01>there is an entry for phy#0 country: CN for some reason
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10:45<Sandy>Hi
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10:47<Sandy>we need to upgrade a Debian system that is not connected to internet. So we need to download the dependencies required for that upgrade and transfer them to the Debian system to do upgrade. Any idea about where to download these packs and what commands to use to install them locally?
10:47<Sandy>Thanks
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10:50<blast007>!apt-zip
10:50<dpkg>Update a non-networked computer using apt and removable media. Just aptitude install apt-zip and read the docs in /usr/share/doc/apt-zip, or ask me about <apt offline> <apt-walkabout>. http://wiki.debian.org/AptZip
10:50<blast007>!apt-walkabout
10:50<dpkg>apt-walkabout is probably another tool for managing the distribution and upgrade of debian packages for non-connected or low-speed links computers. See http://quozl.netrek.org/apt-walkabout/ Also ask me about <apt-zip> <apt offline>
10:51<TomyWork>hi
10:51<blast007>hello
10:51<petn-randall>Sandy: There are update CD for point releases, you could use them. From what to what do you plan to upgrade?
10:51<Sandy>dpkg, excellent! Thanks so much for the information.
10:51<dpkg>bugger all, i dunno, Sandy
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10:51<petn-randall>dpkg: are you a bot?
10:51<dpkg>I ain't no stinkin' bot. I am a finely tuned and hand crafted tool. Oh wait... I guess I am a bot (that you should not abuse).
10:51<blast007>:)
10:52<Sandy>petn-randall, we will upgrade from Jessie to stretch
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10:52<petn-randall>Sandy: Then you probably have to download all DVDs, though you might be able to upgrade just with the first. There's no way to be sure beforehand, though.
10:53<TomyWork>I have kind of an odd issue on a fresh Debian 9 stretch box: I set a hold with "apt-mark hold avahi-daemon", but it's gone once I install any package
10:53<petn-randall>Sandy: It is easier to upgrade with a working internet connection, so I'd consider using that if possible.
10:53<TomyWork>doesn't matter whether I use dpkg -i or apt-get install
10:54<TomyWork>apt-mark showhold shows the hold before installing the package, but not after installing it
10:54<TomyWork>also, "apt-mark hold" removes all holds it doesn't add
10:54<TomyWork>it looks like someone overwrites the list of holds instead of appending
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10:56<Sandy>petn-randall, our customer doesn't want to use internet to do upgrade. So their computers are non-network.
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10:57<TomyWork>Sandy is an internal mirror an option?
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10:59<TomyWork>(i cross-posted my question on freenode's #debian)
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11:29<Sandy>TomyWork, what do you mean an internal mirror? The Debian system is an internal system, they don't allow it to connect to internet.
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11:31<sney>Sandy: probably means a local mirror, like one created with apt-cacher or other
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11:31<TomyWork>Sandy a mirror on the internal network
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11:50<Sandy>TomyWork, how to do the mirror?
11:50<TomyWork>no idea
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11:50<TomyWork>but in theory, you have a machine that you move between public and private networks
11:51<TomyWork>you put it into the public network
11:51<TomyWork>have it retrieve all the new packages
11:51<TomyWork>put it into the private network
11:51<TomyWork>have all your attached debian boxes install upgrades from that machine
11:52<TomyWork>you're still breaking your air gap
11:52<TomyWork>more than with a DVD or usb drive
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11:52<TomyWork>Sandy so are you sure your policies allow that?
11:53<TomyWork>also, mirrors are big: https://www.debian.org/mirror/size
11:53<TomyWork>you'd probably need "all" and "amd64"
11:54<blast007>there are cache layers that only download the files requested
11:54<TomyWork>blast007 can't do that
11:54<TomyWork>he wants an air gap
11:55<TomyWork>so while files are being requested from the mirror, there can be no connection to the internet
11:55<blast007>depends on the extent of what "they don't allow it to connect to internet" means
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11:57<blast007>a box with two NICs, one attached to the private and one to the Internet, running an apt caching proxy might be an option, depending on how strict the rules are
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12:03<TotallyNotKim>so I'm working with can interfaces. I can get them up manually by using "ip link set can0 type can bitrate 500000"
12:03<TotallyNotKim>how can I autostart these?
12:03<TotallyNotKim>how should their entry in the network interfaces look like?
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12:07<TomyWork>blast007 sounded stricter than that
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12:08<TomyWork>Sandy am I right?
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12:09<PoquerMcBeerdy[m]>Is bumblebee still mostly fuxored and/or not worth the bother?
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12:10<TomyWork>you mean the package specifically or the entire optimus thing under linux in general?
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12:17<jhutchins_wk>PoquerMcBeerdy[m]: It's hit-and-miss depending on how the hardware is implemented, which is pretty inconsistent.
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12:27<PoquerMcBeerdy[m]>jhutchins_wk: Roger that. I did an update that basically console only'd my laptop... Not sure which one. Is that at all common?
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12:33<TomyWork>PoquerMcBeerdy[m] I can relate to that. i've had my share of troubles with optimus
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12:34<TomyWork>I'm lucky i can use the internal display and a monitor on sub-D
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12:34<TomyWork>HDMI and such is all connected to the nvidia chip and that crashes randomly
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12:40<PoquerMcBeerdy[m]>TomyWork: HRM interesting. I will have to return when I have my laptop with me. I'm kind of a rube at Debian.
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12:54<omer>Hello!
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12:54<omer>:)
12:54<omer>anyone thre
12:54<omer>there
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12:55<awal1>what happens omer
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12:55<TomyWork>he's probably used to "typing..." notifications ^^
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13:06<saslman>Has anyone used saslpasswd2 before? What is the point of the application name parameter?
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13:17<francisco_marinho> Hi, i am new here!
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13:21<annadane>hi francisco_marinho, if you have a question, just ask :)
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13:23<francisco_marinho>ok annadane, thank you
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13:30<saslman>Ok I figured out my issue there. Does anyone else use ufw?
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13:31<saslman>I should probably learn iptables huh
13:33<awal1>saslman, you know ufw have a gtk front end, gufw
13:33<awal1>may make things easier for you
13:34<saslman>awal1: I don't have a desktop environment
13:34<saslman>awal1: I work solely through shell, (let me know if theres a better way to say that)
13:34<saslman>I am not very good with the terms but I understand the basic terms
13:34<awal1>saslman, ok
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13:37<retrospectacus>if you're interested in running a firewall, learning basic iptables is worth it.
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13:40<saslman>retrospectacus: : If I am understanding correctly iptables works with the firewall?
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13:41<PoquerMcBeerdy[m]>saslman: IP tables are the firewall, everything else is a wrapper
13:41<PoquerMcBeerdy[m]>GUI/UI/timesaver
13:41<saslman>PoquerMcBeerdy[m]: So I don't need ufw and iptables, only one?
13:41<awal1>not exactly, PoquerMcBeerdy[m]
13:42<PoquerMcBeerdy[m]>saslman: you will have IP tables regardless, that's how the internet works. U need ufw or something similar to administer them
13:42<awal1>saslman, iptables is a cli utility for configure netfilter, the linux firewall
13:43-!-radix [~radix@46-10-189-230.ip.btc-net.bg] has joined #debian
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13:43<PoquerMcBeerdy[m]>awal1: my bad
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13:43<radix>hello
13:43<radix>i search transmission port
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13:43<radix>i search transmission part
13:43<radix>help
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13:44<PoquerMcBeerdy[m]>radix: transmission the bit torrent thing?
13:44<saslman>PoquerMcBeerdy[m]: I looked at it as ufw is the application and iptables is the rules
13:44<radix>yess
13:44<radix>give me port
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13:44<awal1>so, saslman, so you can configure netfilter via iptables itself or via another front end like ufw , also cli, or a gui frontend like gufw (gtk interface for ufw
13:45<awal1>that's all
13:45<saslman>awal1: Really wish I had a frontend right now, lol
13:45<PoquerMcBeerdy[m]>saslman: yes that's my interpretation as well but A might have better info
13:45<saslman>awal1: But commandline really makes you learn
13:45<PoquerMcBeerdy[m]>Radix have you heard of this new thing called Google? It really works!
13:46<awal1>people usually say iptables to refers to netfilter
13:46<awal1>so you are not wrong at all :P
13:46<saslman>Whats a the most recommended firewall to use?
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13:47<saslman>Also I seem to be having issues with ipv6 on ufw, so I disabled it. What are the drawbacks of that?
13:48<awal1>saslman, as I know, linux have only 1 firewall, netfilter
13:49<saslman>ufw - Uncomplicated Firewall
13:49<saslman>UncomplicatedFirewall*
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13:50<awal1>saslman, I think I resumed for you what is firewall and it's front-ends :P
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13:50<saslman>Ah so ufw uses netfilter
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13:51<saslman>I get it now
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13:55<awal1>saslman, 'netfilter' (linux firewall) ---» iptables/nftables / ufw ... (cli frontends) / gufw ' firestarter ... (gui frontends)
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13:57<saslman>awal1: Got it. Thank you for explaining
13:59<awal1>saslman, np
13:59<awal1>running out
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14:52-!-BrainDommage is "realname" on #tor #debian-france #debian #nos-oignons
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14:53-!-stepik [~quassel@admamsterdam.net] has joined #debian
14:53-!-stepik is "step,,," on #debian
14:56-!-LArS0N [~quassel@ip-86-49-255-232.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:56-!-czesmir [~stefan@abrl118.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
14:56-!-earthundead [~earthunde@91.239.69.160] has joined #debian
14:56-!-earthundead is "realname" on #debian
14:57-!-LArS0N [~quassel@ip-86-49-255-232.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #debian
14:57-!-LArS0N is ",,," on @#majncraft @#majncraft.game #debian
14:57-!-czesmir [~stefan@abrl118.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #debian
14:57-!-czesmir is "Stefan" on #debian
14:58-!-Kruppt [~Kruppt@50.111.48.47] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:02-!-lordievader [~lordievad@2001:470:1af1:101::a17] has quit [Server closed connection]
15:02-!-stepik [~quassel@admamsterdam.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:02-!-lordievader [~lordievad@2001:470:1af1:101::a17] has joined #debian
15:02-!-lordievader is "@lordievader:corellian.student.utwente.nl" on #debian #powerdns #debian-nl
15:05-!-TomasCZ [~TomasCZ@yes.tenlab.net] has joined #debian
15:05-!-TomasCZ is "Unknown" on #tor @#tenlab #linode #debian #ceph
15:06-!-Hambuger [~Hambuger@66-227-145-143.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com] has joined #debian
15:06-!-Hambuger is "Emalee" on #debian
15:06-!-graytron [~tero@85-76-149-180-nat.elisa-mobile.fi] has joined #debian
15:06-!-graytron is "graytron" on #debian
15:06-!-ol [~quassel@2406:e006:fb7:1:8e89:a5ff:feca:57fe] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:06-!-Hambuger [~Hambuger@66-227-145-143.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com] has quit []
15:07-!-Scaniatrucker [~Scaniatru@78-56-98-5.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Quit: leaving]
15:08-!-Guest2231 [~tero@mobile-access-bcee25-1.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:08-!-kemperalves [~quassel@191.54.195.133] has joined #debian
15:08-!-kemperalves is "Kemper Alves" on #debian-bugs #debian-devel-br #debian
15:08-!-ldnunes [~ldnunes@181.220.79.73] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:10-!-kemperalves [~quassel@191.54.195.133] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:11-!-stepik [~quassel@admamsterdam.net] has joined #debian
15:11-!-stepik is "step,,," on #debian
15:12-!-asv [~weechat@178.45.75.157] has joined #debian
15:12-!-asv is "weechat" on #debian
15:13-!-hackunoichi [~hackunoic@166.ip-144-217-12.net] has joined #debian
15:13-!-hackunoichi is "SCM C" on #debian-multimedia #debian #debian-france #debian-gnome
15:13-!-korak [~quassel@208-180-152-154.com.sta.suddenlink.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:14-!-korak [~quassel@208-180-152-154.com.sta.suddenlink.net] has joined #debian
15:14-!-korak is "Korak" on #debian
15:14-!-gr8ron [~tero@mobile-access-6df076-56.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #debian
15:14-!-gr8ron is "graytron" on #debian
15:14-!-Brigo [~Brigo@249.59.27.77.dynamic.reverse-mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:16-!-musolesc [~chatzilla@88.red-88-0-154.dynamicip.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.93 [Firefox 52.5.2/20171208114127]]
15:18-!-graytron [~tero@85-76-149-180-nat.elisa-mobile.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:21-!-asv [~weechat@178.45.75.157] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.0.1]
15:26-!-ach [~spooky@ipb218f238.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:31-!-dutchfish [~wil@000128c9.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
15:31-!-dutchfish is "Wil van Lierop" on #debian-devel-changes #debian-boot #debian-mentors #debian
15:34-!-Ruebezahl [~Alf@p200300C04BC34D00626720FFFE413270.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:35-!-asterismo_m [~santiago@2800:a4:109a:8900:6666:b3ff:fe07:618b] has joined #debian
15:35-!-asterismo_m is "realname" on #debian
15:36-!-Ruebezahl [~Alf@p200300C04BC34D00626720FFFE413270.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #debian
15:36-!-Ruebezahl is "realname" on #siduction-de #debian-systemd #osm-de #skolelinux.de #debian-edu #debian
15:42-!-tomg [~tomg@64-7-147-169.agas1a-dynamic.dsl.sentex.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:45-!-ol [~quassel@2406:e006:fb7:1:8e89:a5ff:feca:57fe] has joined #debian
15:45-!-ol is "Ol" on #debian
15:46-!-wvdakker [~wvdakker@mail.wilsoft.nl] has quit [Quit: wvdakker]
15:52-!-bradfa [~andrew@clr-vpn01.kodakalaris.com] has quit [Quit: leaving]
15:55-!-ach [~spooky@ipb218f2b0.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined #debian
15:55-!-ach is "spooky" on #debian
15:56-!-Blacker47 [~Blacker47@00014f22.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: This program cannot be run in DOS mode]
15:58-!-Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:00-!-jhutchin1_wk [~jonathan@12.171.62.202] has joined #debian
16:00-!-jhutchin1_wk is "Jonathan Hutchins" on #oftc #debian
16:03-!-alexpbrown [~alex.brow@38.97.68.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:05-!-Francisco_Marinho [~francisco@189-83-147-64.user.veloxzone.com.br] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
16:05-!-ElioQoshi[m] [~elioqoshi@2001:470:1af1:101::f1] has quit [Server closed connection]
16:05-!-ElioQoshi[m] [~elioqoshi@2001:470:1af1:101::f1] has joined #debian
16:05-!-ElioQoshi[m] is "@elioqoshi:matrix.org" on #debian #debconf18-taiwan
16:06-!-{4144}| [~{4144}@46.56.64.47] has joined #debian
16:06-!-{4144}| is "KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://kvirc.net/" on #qemu #tmw-br #gcc #debian-next #debian-kde #debian
16:06-!-quasisane [~sanep@0001267b.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
16:06-!-quasisane is "A Hermit" on #tor #debian-next #debian
16:07-!-jhutchins_wk [~jonathan@12.171.62.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:07-!-zapperoo [~ZaP@201-229-73-55.setardsl.aw] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:08-!-pavlushka [~pavlushka@00021abb.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: See you on the other side]
16:09-!-nina [~nina@91.207.57.51] has joined #debian
16:09-!-nina is "Nina" on #debian-kde #debian
16:09-!-jhutchin1_wk [~jonathan@12.171.62.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:09-!-nina is now known as nina__
16:09-!-czesmir [~stefan@abrl118.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
16:11-!-phunyguy [~vault@h69-131-7-135.kgldga.dsl.dynamic.tds.net] has quit [Quit: Goodbye cruel world!]
16:11-!-czesmir [~stefan@abrl118.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #debian
16:11-!-czesmir is "Stefan" on #debian
16:12-!-{4144} [~{4144}@0002192f.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:13-!-phunyguy [~vault@h69-131-7-135.kgldga.dsl.dynamic.tds.net] has joined #debian
16:13-!-phunyguy is "Phuny Guy" on #debian
16:13-!-kapitalist [~kapitalis@78-73-113-101-no162.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:15-!-nunatak [~nunatak@cable-78-34-72-10.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
16:19-!-Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has joined #debian
16:19-!-Haudegen is "AP,,," on #debian-desktop #debian-next #security #debian-til #debian-kde #debian.or.at #debian
16:20-!-isaagar [~isaagar@103.44.137.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:22-!-yoha [~candle@84-75-108-27.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #debian
16:22-!-yoha is "yeha" on #tor-project #tor #debian
16:25-!-d43mon_AFK [~d43mon@179.187.88.117.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #debian
16:25-!-d43mon_AFK is "Khalil" on #virt #debian-bugs #debian-br #debian
16:28-!-jhutchins_wk [~jonathan@136.33.72.78] has joined #debian
16:28-!-jhutchins_wk is "Jonathan Hutchins" on #oftc #debian
16:28-!-{4144} [~{4144}@46.56.68.208] has joined #debian
16:28-!-{4144} is "KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://kvirc.net/" on #qemu #tmw-br #gcc #debian-next #debian-kde #debian
16:29-!-gr8ron [~tero@mobile-access-6df076-56.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:30-!-asterismo_m [~santiago@2800:a4:109a:8900:6666:b3ff:fe07:618b] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:35-!-Marinho_Francisco [~francisco@189-83-147-64.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #debian
16:35-!-Marinho_Francisco is "Francisco de Paula Marinho Neto" on #debian-devel-br #debian-br #debian-pt #debian-xfce #debian
16:35-!-tiagorocha[m] [~tiagoroch@2001:470:1af1:101::61b] has quit [Server closed connection]
16:35-!-newbie70 [~{4144}@46.56.64.217] has joined #debian
16:35-!-newbie70 is "KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://kvirc.net/" on #qemu #tmw-br #gcc #debian-next #debian-kde #debian
16:35-!-tiagorocha[m] [~tiagoroch@2001:470:1af1:101::61b] has joined #debian
16:35-!-tiagorocha[m] is "@tiagorocha:matrix.org" on #debian #debian-devel-br #debian-br
16:35-!-{4144}| [~{4144}@46.56.64.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:37-!-{4144} [~{4144}@0002192f.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:41-!-galex-713 [~galex-713@37.173.96.107] has joined #debian
16:41-!-galex-713 is "Alexandre Garreau" on #debian-kde #debian
16:41-!-{4144}| [~{4144}@46.56.65.237] has joined #debian
16:41-!-{4144}| is "KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://kvirc.net/" on #qemu #tmw-br #gcc #debian-next #debian-kde #debian
16:41-!-galex-713_ [~galex-713@91.161.83.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:43-!-ach [~spooky@ipb218f2b0.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:45-!-gtristan [~tristanva@110.11.179.89] has joined #debian
16:45-!-gtristan is "Tristan Van Berkom" on #kernelnewbies #qemu #debian #ninja-build #debian-next #reproducible-builds
16:46-!-dutchfish [~wil@000128c9.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Splash, leaving the bowl]
16:47-!-ansel [~ansel@tmo-106-79.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #debian
16:47-!-ansel is "Andreas Seltenreich" on #debian-mentors #debian-ha #debian
16:48-!-newbie70 [~{4144}@46.56.64.217] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:50-!-cmacq2 [~cmacq2@ip4da03f95.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:50-!-mantlepro [~mantlepro@96-41-120-101.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:51-!-polillasdelmal [~user@186.87.244.205] has joined #debian
16:51-!-polillasdelmal is "Debian Live user" on #debian
16:54-!-Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:54-!-stepik [~quassel@admamsterdam.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:55-!-Spydar007 [~spydar007@spydar007.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:55-!-mantlepro [~mantlepro@96-41-120-101.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #debian
16:55-!-mantlepro is "Josh Wheeler" on #debian
16:56-!-NomadJim_ [~Jim@72.168.160.105] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:56-!-NomadJim_ [~Jim@72.168.160.105] has joined #debian
16:56-!-NomadJim_ is "Nomad" on #debian #linode
16:57-!-stepik [~quassel@admamsterdam.net] has joined #debian
16:57-!-stepik is "step,,," on #debian
16:57-!-ol [~quassel@2406:e006:fb7:1:8e89:a5ff:feca:57fe] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:58-!-fredrik [~fredrik@84.216.129.166] has joined #debian
16:58-!-fredrik is "Fredrik Ekblad" on #debian
17:01-!-Marinho_Francisco [~francisco@189-83-147-64.user.veloxzone.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:01-!-mith_ [~mith@se10x.mullvad.net] has joined #debian
17:01-!-mith_ is "mith" on #debian-it #debian
17:02-!-jipege1 [~quassel@170-135-190-109.isp.overthebox.ovh] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:03-!-jipege1 [~quassel@170-135-190-109.isp.overthebox.ovh] has joined #debian
17:03-!-jipege1 is "zaza,,," on #debian-doc #debian #debian-l10n-fr #debian-publicity #debian-i18n #debian-www
17:03-!-korak [~quassel@208-180-152-154.com.sta.suddenlink.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:04-!-Texou [~Texou@000178ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1]
17:06-!-tda [~tmerriam@12-231-200-67.producersnational.com] has left #debian []
17:06-!-BrainDommage [~BrainDomm@78.194.233.65] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:07-!-BrainDommage [~BrainDomm@78.194.233.65] has joined #debian
17:07-!-BrainDommage is "realname" on #nos-oignons #debian #debian-france #tor
17:07-!-fredrik is now known as ape78
17:08-!-ape78 [~fredrik@84.216.129.166] has left #debian [Good Bye]
17:08-!-ape78 [~fredrik@84.216.129.166] has joined #debian
17:08-!-ape78 is "Fredrik Ekblad" on #debian
17:08-!-yoha [~candle@84-75-108-27.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:10-!-ape78 [~fredrik@84.216.129.166] has quit [Quit: ape78]
17:10-!-gabriel1 [~gabriel1@host189-86-dynamic.49-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:10-!-{4144}| is now known as {4144}
17:10-!-d43mon_AFK is now known as d43mon_
17:11-!-Marinho_Francisco [~francisco@189-83-151-36.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #debian
17:11-!-Marinho_Francisco is "Francisco de Paula Marinho Neto" on #debian-devel-br #debian-br #debian-pt #debian-xfce #debian
17:14-!-bluca [~bluca@2a00:23c5:bef3:400:9531:588b:44ae:bec4] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
17:15-!-gabriel1 [~gabriel1@host189-86-dynamic.49-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #debian
17:15-!-gabriel1 is "Gab" on #ubuntu #tor #debian-it #debian
17:15-!-whoami007 [~whoami007@138.97.161.93] has joined #debian
17:15-!-whoami007 is "whoami007" on #debian
17:15-!-galex-713_ [~galex-713@2a01:e0a:54:cb90:b5bc:157a:738f:4e41] has joined #debian
17:15-!-galex-713_ is "Alexandre Garreau" on #debian-kde #debian
17:18-!-ee2455 [~ee2455@0001c7c0.user.oftc.net] has left #debian [Leaving]
17:19-!-galex-713 [~galex-713@37.173.96.107] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:20-!-Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has joined #debian
17:20-!-Haudegen is "AP,,," on #debian-til #debian-next #debian-kde #security #debian.or.at #debian-desktop #debian
17:27-!-chomwitt [~chomwitt@2a02:587:dc08:a00:58b1:6660:ccd2:ffd] has joined #debian
17:27-!-chomwitt is "chomwitt" on #debian-mentors #oolite #openttd #qemu #debian #debian-games
17:28-!-polillasdelmal [~user@186.87.244.205] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:33-!-b17 [~b17@68-241-254-103.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #debian
17:33-!-b17 is "b17" on #debian
17:34-!-Texou [~Texou@000178ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
17:34-!-Texou is "Jean-Philippe MENGUAL" on #debian-welcome #debian-france #debian-mobile #debian-mozilla #debian-offtopic #debian-desktop #debian-multimedia #bitlbee #debian-community #debian-quebec #debian-gnome #debian-live #debian-voip #debian-qa #debian-next #debian #debian-es #debian-it #debian-devel-es #debian-devel-it #debian-mate #debian-l10n-fr #nvda #brltty #debian-a11y
17:34-!-marcus [~marcus@c-3d2072d5.014-990-7570702.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: marcus]
17:36-!-mr_byt3s [~byt3s@2001:a62:60c:301:8ce2:2df5:b56a:1593] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:36-!-Francisco_Marinho [~francisco@189-83-171-194.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #debian
17:36-!-Francisco_Marinho is "Francisco de Paula Marinho Neto" on #debian-devel-br #debian-br #debian-pt #debian-xfce #debian
17:36-!-DrZaius [~kusanagi@84.167.35.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:40-!-vlad1777d [~vlad@46.98.17.171] has joined #debian
17:40-!-vlad1777d is "realname" on #debian #debian-next #debian-cinnamon #debian-hurd
17:40-!-dpalacio [~david@00013d94.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:40-!-Marinho_Francisco [~francisco@189-83-151-36.user.veloxzone.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:41-!-dpalacio [~david@00013d94.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
17:41-!-dpalacio is "david" on #debian-kde #debian
17:42-!-jmux [~jmux@194.113.41.246] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
17:46-!-czesmir [~stefan@abrl118.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
17:49-!-ompaul [~ompaul@000135c2.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
17:49-!-ompaul is "ompaul" on #debian-paultag-fanclub #linux #aptosid-docs #debian-next #celtux #aptosid-art @#aptosid-gnome #debian-offtopic #osm-ie #aptosid-pub #aptosid #debian-kde #debian
18:04-!-ompaul [~ompaul@000135c2.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: and zebedee said its time for other stuff]
18:06-!-aguslr [~aguslr@0001a2ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught me]
18:06-!-aguslr [~aguslr@183.97.117.91.dynamic.reverse-mundo-r.com] has joined #debian
18:06-!-aguslr is "Agus" on #debian
18:06-!-my123 [~my123@0001f412.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:07-!-tetrapovicc [~trifyl@2a01:cb19:85b4:db00:224:8cff:fe4f:fe7d] has joined #debian
18:07-!-tetrapovicc is "trifyl" on #debian
18:08-!-policena [~policena@46.166.142.221] has joined #debian
18:08-!-policena is "policena" on #debian #debian-devel-br
18:09-!-hele_ [~hele@a88-115-22-204.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #debian
18:09-!-hele_ is "hele" on #debian-next #debian-kde #debian
18:09-!-ao2 [~ao2@87.19.20.147] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
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18:12-!-kritzefitz [~kritzefit@dslb-094-221-077-162.094.221.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:14-!-towo` [~towo@00012f0f.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
18:14-!-d43mon_ [~d43mon@179.187.88.117.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:15-!-d43mon [~d43mon@179.187.88.117.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #debian
18:15-!-d43mon is "Khalil" on #debian-bugs #debian-br #debian
18:16-!-ahac [~ahac@ip-178-203-235-82.hsi10.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #debian
18:16-!-ahac is "ahac" on #debian
18:16-!-ahac [~ahac@ip-178-203-235-82.hsi10.unitymediagroup.de] has left #debian []
18:20-!-whoami007 [~whoami007@138.97.161.93] has quit [Quit: Saliendo]
18:20-!-manuelschneid3r [~manuelsch@p200300D863DD962AC25D3CA3469C85D8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:21-!-d43mon [~d43mon@179.187.88.117.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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19:29<friki>Hi, I think I have a probem with buffering with pipes.. When I run this command It just "freezes": tzap -r '<my_radio_station>' -o - | ffplay -i - -analyzeduration 1 -showmode 0
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19:33<friki>This command "works": tzap -r '<my_radio_station>' -o /tmp/audio.ts & sleep 2 && ffplay -i /tmp/audio.ts -analyzeduration 1 -showmode 0
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19:53<b17>friki: what happens without the "-i -" on the first one
19:54<friki>b17: "An input file must be specified" ;-)
19:55<b17>haven;t used it in awhile waht ver? ffplay -version
19:55<friki>"-i -" means read media from stdin
19:55<friki>ffplay version 3.4.1-1+b1 (sid)
19:57<friki>Same command works for video broadcasting. Also works for radio stations if I wait some minutes
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20:00<friki>"tzap -S -r 'RAC1(RAC)' -o - | tee /tmp/audio.ts | ffplay -i - -analyzeduration 1 -showmode 0" neither works. Meanwhile, I can "ffplay -i /tmp/audio.ts". After some minutes first ffplay command start playing (delayed, of course)
20:01<friki>"cat /tmp/audio.ts| ffplay -i -" also plays audio, so I'm soooo confused :-P
20:02<b17>friki: don't know, sounds like it might be converting something on the fly?
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20:03<friki>i think it's related to buffering. ffplay or tzap shouldnt convert audio format
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20:04<friki>as ffplay receive data says: "Stream #0:0[0x501]: Audio: mp2, 48000 Hz, stereo, s16p, 192 kb/s"
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20:06<b17>friki: i never used stdbuf, but that might get you somehwre
20:07<friki>already tested after googling. ty
20:07<friki>didn't work
20:07<b17>friki: then why do you think its a buffer prob?
20:09<friki>"tzap -S -r 'XXX' -o - | mplayer -cache 100 -" works after ~10 seconds
20:09<friki>b17: may be it's not related to buffer. It's just my gues
20:13<b17>friki: don't guess, eliminate and then file the bug
20:14<friki>? sorry
20:15<b17>friki: i'm counting on sid users to fix this stuff befor it gets to stable
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20:16<friki>should I try to downgrade to stable and try again? may it help?
20:17<friki>i've never used it on stable...
20:18<teatime>friki: I'm looking at your question. It's a good question. /me thinks for a moment.
20:18<b17>friki: i haven;t used it since it was avplay, but i know there were a lot of changes. Don;t know what to tell you.
20:19<teatime>friki: I don't think downgrading etc. will fix it. as you say, it's something to do with pipes and buffering...
20:20<friki>i'll test on a stable chroot anyway. 5 minutes...
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20:21<teatime>"after some minutes, first ffmpeg starts playing" which ffmpeg did you mean here?
20:21<friki>"ffmpeg -f lavfi -i "sine=frequency=1000:duration=5" -f mpegts - | ffplay -i -" -> it works without delays
20:22<teatime>well yes but so does playing a local file.
20:22<friki>teatime: "tzap -r '<my_radio_station>' -o - | ffplay -i - -analyzeduration 1 -showmode 0" it starts working after some minutes, with a big delay
20:22<teatime>gotcha.
20:23<teatime>ok then. sounds like ffplay is bufferring, and waiting until it has what it considers enough before starting to play.
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20:23<friki>teatime: mmm i'm not sure now, because it works instantly with a piped sine
20:23<friki>... "ffmpeg -f lavfi -i "sine=frequency=1000:duration=5" -f mpegts - | ffplay -i -"
20:23<teatime>friki: because that takes essentially zero time to fill the buffer.
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20:24<teatime>friki: unlike an internet stream
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20:25<teatime>friki: -infbuf (default for realtime streams and presumably pipes) or -noinfbuf may have an effect. if so let me know, that'd probably be a bug worth filing.
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20:25<friki>"ffmpeg -f lavfi -i "sine=frequency=1000:duration=5" -acodec aac -b:a 1 -f mpegts - | ffplay -i -" it also works instantly ;-)
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20:26<friki>teatime: tzap is a radio stream, btw
20:26<teatime>that probably also takes almost zero time to fill the buffer; the delay you added is only enough time to transcode 5 seconds of audio. which is "almost none"
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20:26<teatime>friki: from the internet? (I don't know what tzap does.)
20:26<friki>"<teatime> friki: unlike an internet stream"
20:27<friki>teatime: tzap get data from a FM station
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20:27<teatime>friki: from tuner/sdr hardware? not over the internet? I see.
20:27<friki>yap
20:28<friki>it works instantly from DVB (video), btw
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20:28<teatime>hmm. well. it's still a good question, then. :) ok. sorry I misunderstood a bit.
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20:29<teatime>friki: what if instead of duration=5 you did duration=86400 (for the sine wave test)
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20:29<teatime>(without the transcode, is fine)
20:30<friki>same. also removed duration param, it shouldn't be there
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20:31<friki>... it was a quick copy&paste
20:31<teatime>like, I'm asking, does ffplay hang/not-hang when you pipe in a large amount of data (rather than 5 seconds worth)
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20:32<teatime>if taking off duration makes the sine wave play until killed, that's perfect & you answered my question
20:32<friki>"ffmpeg -f lavfi -i "sine=frequency=1000" -acodec aac -b:a 1 -f mpegts - | ffplay -i -" plays instantly
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20:35<friki>btw: "tzap -r 'XXX' -o - | DISPLAY=:0 ffplay -i - -analyzeduration 1 -showmode 0" also freezes on stable chroot
20:36<teatime>friki: how about if you add '-analyzeduration 1 -showmode 0'? how about if you make the sine wave command output audio in the same codec as the stream (or is it already)?
20:36<teatime>something is making ffplay decide to buffer the one and decide not to buffer the other.
20:36<teatime>(I think.)
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20:37<teatime>that, or tzap doesn't instantly begin outputting data... which I assume you'd know / checked.
20:37<friki>already tested with this params. no efect seen
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20:38<teatime>and you said the delay, before it finally eventually *does* play, is minutes.
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20:38<friki>i'll try to graph tzap output bandwith :-)
20:38<teatime>you can even stick pv (pipe viewer) in there
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20:39<teatime>tzap | pv | ffplay
20:40<teatime>and the same w/ the sine-wave command, and compare them (compare either throughput, or amount transferred after the first 00:00:02 seconds.)
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20:43<friki>i've pipet trough "nc" and captured with wireshark. I can see 6 packages sent each 2 seconds.
20:43<teatime>friki: confirm I understand right: when you say it "hangs", you said actually if you let it sit for some multiple minutes, it will eventually start playing? so it's not a "hang" but an inexplicably-long delay.
20:44<friki>correct
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20:44<teatime>friki: well, that isn't as helpful, at least to me. 3 packets per second is not a lot of data, though... at most that's, what, 4.5kB/s ?
20:45<friki>the stream should be at 192kbps
20:45<teatime>friki: pv is pretty nice, you should try it :)
20:45<friki>i'll try
20:46<friki>btw: nc packages are ~16k
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20:47<teatime>friki: sorry I assumed that was a typo for 'packets'. I am not familiar w/ nc packages.
20:47<friki>network packets, yes
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20:48<teatime>you lost me. but that's ok.
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20:50<friki>Testing pv... i see some KiB/s but still no audio
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20:51<friki>FTR: full command used with pv: tzap -S -r 'XXX' -o - | pv | ffplay -i - -analyzeduration 1 -showmode 0 -loglevel quiet
20:51<teatime>ok. I was mainly curious if the sine wave vs. the tzap commands behaved both the same wrt pv output
20:52<teatime>like, is it about the same / the correct amount KiB/s, do they both begin streaming at that rate immediately, etc.
20:53<teatime>either tzap is doing something wrong / we don't understand, or ffplay is doing something wrong / has a bug. this comparison helps you confirm which side the problem is on.
20:53<friki>tzap seems to peak 50kbps 0kbps 50kbps 0kpbs...
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20:53<friki>sine seems more stable from 'pv' perspective
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20:54<friki>can i post an image to paste.debian.org?
20:54<teatime>does 25 or 50 (whichever that would represent) kbps make sense to you, for tzap output?
20:55<teatime>friki: you can upload an image to imgur.com real quick w/o registering.
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20:55<teatime>you could totally fit an FM broadcast radio stream into 50kbps of compressed audio, I think, fwiw
20:55<friki>https://imgur.com/a/BIYVl -> tzap
20:56<friki>taken from wireshark
20:56<friki>i'll try to take a similar capture with sine
20:56<teatime>friki: that's less than 6 packets/second.
20:57<teatime>friki: are these de-fragmented 16kb packets? 'cause when I called 3pps = 4.5kbps earlier, I was thinking max 1500 bytes/packet.
20:58<teatime>anyway. that's the same data as pv, more or less, except more difficult for me to read. easier for you to share, though, I suppose.
20:58<friki>https://imgur.com/a/6Sc6J
20:58<friki><- sine
20:59<teatime>friki: hrm. well, that's a lot more packets, at first anyway.
20:59<teatime>I've asked a couple questions while you've been working ^^
20:59<friki>probably some missing headers?
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21:00<teatime>missing headers?
21:00<friki>i mean, some kind of media headers
21:01<friki>FM doesn't send headers when I tune it, I guess
21:02<teatime>friki: ah. well, it's a *lot* more packets. headers aren't usually 90% of the content of an audio file :)
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21:02<teatime>friki: does 50kbps seem reasonable to you for tzap's output?
21:02<friki>i spect 192kbps at maximum
21:03<teatime>friki: packets/second is mis-leading is packets have varying sizes (or if I don't know how big a packet is.)
21:03<teatime>*if
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21:03<teatime>friki: well based on pv, you were seeing tzap outputting 25-50 kbps of raw data.
21:04<friki>each sent packets are ~16k if I've seen correctly at wireshark
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21:04<teatime>ok
21:04<teatime>I give up then, that covers everything I would know to check, and I have no explanation. Good question.
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21:05<friki>Thanks. I working with this question since 3 weeks ago :-)
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21:06<friki>It was a pleasure squeeze your brain! :-P
21:07<friki>b17 , teatime thanks a lot for your time. Really appreciated!
21:07<teatime>these are my favorite questions (well I like it better when we win, but.)
21:07<friki>it will be a win in the future
21:07<friki>i'll try to write back
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21:09<friki>meanwhile i'll keep doing: tzap > file.ts & ffplay -i file.ts :-P
21:09<teatime>friki: oh dunno if you've tried a different audio player than ffplay... presumably that would not hang (my personal guess is that ffplay is at fault here.)
21:09<friki>mplayer works better, yes
21:09<teatime>friki: and that works / plays immediately? grr. yeah, I blame ffplay.
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21:10<friki>"tzap -S -r 'RAC1(RAC)' -o - | pv | mplayer -cache 100 -" Works after ~10 seconds (also explained before)
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22:15<fennfloof>just wanted to give you all an update to what i was taking about yesterday
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22:18<fennfloof>i have given my father a Laptop with Debian 9.3 using the KDE Desktop Environment
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22:20<fennfloof>so far i have yet to hear him call me worried about something that isnt working,so,that is a good sign
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22:22<Sveta>great fennfloof :)
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22:26<fennfloof>yes,its very good
22:27<fennfloof>my only complaint is the slow performance in an uncached state
22:27<fennfloof>but,then again,that seems to be true of literally anything
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22:31<fennfloof>caches are the greatest thing in computer science
22:33<somiaj>it isn't to bad with an ssd, but I guess I reboot so rarely that things run in memory most the time.
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22:34<fennfloof>the systems i work with have mechanical drives
22:35<fennfloof>honestly,i can deal with the performance hit,at least on my system
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22:35<somiaj>I also run a minimial wm. Though my use is fairly simple, xterms + browser.
22:37<themill>istr there's still a preload or readaheadd package
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22:37<fennfloof>i tried that,and honestly,i wasnt impressed with its performance
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22:38<themill>it makes no difference to boot and would only make a difference to applications after a while
22:39<annadane>i've taken to just putting my computer in suspend so i don't have to wait for KDE's slow boot times on my HDD
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22:39*themill doesn't find it slow
22:40<annadane>even on non-SSD? interesting.
22:40<fennfloof>i would rather just write a shell script that uses 'dd' to prefetch stuff into pace cache
22:40<fennfloof>*page cache
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23:00<elof_>Is there other method to check booting procedure log?
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23:01<b17>elof_: what procedure?
23:01<elof_>boot
23:02<elof_>I got keymap and backlight error while it was booting
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23:04<elof_>the dmesg does not show the errors above-mentioned
23:04<b17>do you have a kboard backlight? I had an issue and used systemd.restore_state for awhile until I narrowed it down.
23:04<elof_>b17: no, my keyboard is logitech k120, a standard 104 keyboard.
23:06<b17>well i don't have one either, and the above kernel param helped
23:08<b17>in my case it was a hard lockup though, I guess you can boot ok?
23:10<elof_>My debian has no sound, and I did as https://wiki.debian.org/SoundFAQ said, but no still no sound
23:11<elof_>okay, I have solved
23:11<elof_>I forget I have to manually configure the sound preferences
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---Logclosed Sat Jan 20 00:00:56 2018