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#debian IRC Logs for 2018-01-26

---Logopened Fri Jan 26 00:00:05 2018
00:01-!-rbalint [~rbalint@54029356.dsl.pool.telekom.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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00:04-!-dboehmer is "Daniel B\xF6hmer,,," on #debian
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00:07-!-pavlushka is "pavlushka" on #linode #debian #oftc
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00:37-!-kmshanah is "Kevin Shanahan" on #debian
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00:43-!-jm_ is "." on #debian #debian-ops
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00:49-!-debalance is "Philipp Huebner" on #debian #debian-kde #debian-qa #debian-devel-changes
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00:54-!-kameloso is " kameloso!" on #virt #qemu #osm #linode @#garderoben #fsci #debian-next #debian #ceph #Qubes_OS
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01:01-!-kmshanah is "Kevin Shanahan" on #debian
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01:05-!-hanasaki is "purple" on #debian
01:06<hanasaki>how to connect to the gnome/kde/xfce login gui remotely?
01:08-!-jade__ [~jade__@97-113-9-230.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #debian
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01:13<jm_>back in the old days one used something like Xnest, but most DM-s probably disable remote connections by default these days
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01:14-!-kmshanah is "Kevin Shanahan" on #debian
01:16<jm_>you can also use X directly using -query
01:16<hanasaki>jm could you elaborate?
01:17<hanasaki>i would like to get the system choose (xmdpc) and connect/reconnect to the existing login IF it is loged in. else start a new one. All with a spic like interface however spice adn xmdpc are not encrypted.
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01:20-!-marcus is "Marcus Lundblad" on #debian #osm.se-spam #OSM.se #debian-gnome
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01:23-!-marcus_ is "Marcus Lundblad" on #debian #osm.se-spam #OSM.se #debian-gnome
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01:35-!-dandersson is "Daniel Andersson" on #debian
01:37<jm_>hanasaki: I don't think you can connect to an existing session using -query
01:37<jm_>bleh
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01:37-!-Alam_Squeeze is "Alam Arias" on #bitlbee #debian-next #debian-ipv6 #debian-systemd #debian #mingw-w64 #multiarch #linux #debian-games #gc-linux
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01:41<rajeb>cek
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01:43-!-j_f-f is "J\xF6rg Frings-F\xFCrst" on #multiarch #debian-reproducible #debian #debian-ubuntu #debian-systemd #debian-www #debian-bugs #debian-qa #debian-gnome #debian-voip #debian-mentors #debian-hurd #debian-games #debian-kbsd #alioth #debian-lists
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02:07<musa>hi
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03:15<Blupon> /buffer 6
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03:42-!-Texou is "Jean-Philippe MENGUAL" on #debian #debian-es #debian-it #debian-devel-es #debian-devel-it #debian-mate #debian-l10n-fr #nvda #brltty #debian-a11y
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04:11-!-brickb is "Bruno BEAUFILS" on #debian
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04:11<brickb>Hi all
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04:12-!-NomadJim_ is "Nomad" on #debian #linode
04:12<brickb>What's the most up-to-date/recommanded reference on learning how to create a Debian package?
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04:22<Iridos>dpkg, nmg
04:22<dpkg>The packaging tutorial (http://deb.li/QYyI) and the New Maintainer's Guide (http://deb.li/3DiDA) are good places to start learning about Debian packaging. You should also ask me about <devref> and <policy> to understand how packages should be maintained and how they should interact with each other. Ask me about <package basics>, <mentors>, <best practices> <build without helper>. http://www.debian.org/devel/
04:22<Iridos>this
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04:47<brickb>Iridos: thank's
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04:51<Ryoshikayo>If I have a webserver that I'm packaging, it should install to /usr/share/<package-name>/ right?
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05:10<grove>Ryoshikayo: Perhaps some parts, but you should probably also put parts elsewhere, see
05:10<grove>!nmg
05:10<dpkg>The packaging tutorial (http://deb.li/QYyI) and the New Maintainer's Guide (http://deb.li/3DiDA) are good places to start learning about Debian packaging. You should also ask me about <devref> and <policy> to understand how packages should be maintained and how they should interact with each other. Ask me about <package basics>, <mentors>, <best practices> <build without helper>. http://www.debian.org/devel/
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05:24<Ryoshikayo>Ok~ Thank ou
05:24<Ryoshikayo>you*
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05:40<sammecs>
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05:42<sammecs>Hej! I‘ve got a problem booting Debian on a Mac: it hangs after checking available partitions (this check, however, does not yield any errors),
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05:44<sammecs>But before that, I see 4 messages, all starting with the uhci_hcd 0000:00:1a.0: Found HC with no IRQ. Check BIOS/PCI 0000;
05:45<sammecs>That should’ve been [...] Check BIOS/PCI 0000:00:1a.0 setup!
05:45<sammecs>What should I do? What does this message mean?
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05:55<jm_>sammecs: it indicates something's not as expected
05:58<sammecs>jm_: OK, nothing too surprising. To give a little background info: I‘m dual booting this machine with MacOS, and MacOS still works fine.
05:59<sammecs>The GRUB menu also works. The error only occurs after Debian takes over.
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06:06<jm_>sammecs: which mac is this?
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06:09<sammecs>iMac11,2
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06:10<sammecs>It didn‘t have this problem previously. Debian worked fine for a few months. I changed nothing except installing updates and such.
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06:12<jm_>ahh wait, so this is not an installer problem?
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06:15<sammecs>yup, not an installer problem.
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06:16<sammecs>What I‘ve tried before is Live-booting from a USB stick and updating the system - I thought maybe an update broke it, and an update will repair it. Did not work.
06:17<jm_>ok so your kernel was updated then? is the old kernel still available if you check the advanced menu in grub?
06:18<sammecs>Yup
06:18<jm_>yup to both questions?
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06:19<sammecs>Yup :) trying out recovery-mode right now with the newer kernel
06:19<jm_>does it work if you boot the old kernel?
06:21<sammecs>OK, recovery-mode did not work but showed more output. Old kernel - does a bit more, and works!
06:21<jm_>ok so you at least have a workaround, maybe check BTS
06:23<sammecs>BTS=Branch Trace System?
06:23<jm_>!bts
06:23<dpkg>Bug Tracking System for Debian packages, http://bugs.debian.org/ or to go directly to the bug page for a particular package/bug, try http://bugs.debian.org/packagename or http://bugs.debian.org/bugnumber . aptitude install reportbug, and check out <querybts> too. Users of unstable and testing are required to check the BTS. See also <apt-listbugs>, <reportbug>. http://wiki.debian.org/HowtoUseBTS
06:23<jm_>you can change the default kernel for grub by editing /etc/default/grub
06:23<sammecs>Thank you very much! Will do!
06:24<jm_>no problem
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06:40<libregeekingkid[m]>https://lists.debian.org/debian-derivatives/2018/01/msg00007.html
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06:53<Yvonne>\cxxxxxxx'[
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06:56<TomyWork>hi there
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06:57<TomyWork>wasn't there a channel related to packaging (custom) debian packages? #debian-packaging is empty
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06:58<teatime>I think there might be, there's also #debian-mentors if you're hoping to get your packages into Debian
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06:58<TomyWork>nope
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06:58<TomyWork>it's not for general consumption
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07:04<bremner>TomyWork: #packaging ?
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08:07<jhony>ola
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08:16<nfahldieck>Hi, is there a plan on backporting clamav 99.3 to debian jessie (oldstable)? see that seven new CVEs.
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08:36<iulian>hello, will someone help me to fix this https://ibb.co/mK3Mtb
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08:41<inkbottle>What does the "security" caption mean there: https://packages.debian.org/stretch/firefox-esr?
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08:43<teatime>not 100% sure exactly, but presumably that there is a security-related bug against that version of the package
08:43<inkbottle>It seems it's fixed in the present version: https://www.debian.org/security/2018/dsa-4096
08:44<inkbottle>teatime: what I thought
08:44<inkbottle>but might be the opposite
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08:44<teatime>there are more than 1 open security-related bugs against firefox-esr
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08:47<inkbottle>The caption means that it is a security fix; it is in "security updates" in aptitude
08:47<teatime>ah
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08:52<iulian>hello, will someone help me to fix this https://ibb.co/mK3Mtb
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08:53<teatime>iulian: is the problem simply that those characters (looks like greek?) don't exist in those fonts?
08:53<teatime>oh, no, that's cryllic isn't it
08:54<iulian>it's a minimal install openbox... i kinda missing something
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08:55<iulian>it's any package encoding something
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09:30<josjoha>Hello, Wireless Broadcom Limited BCM4313 802.11bgn Wireless Network Adapter (rev 01) is unfortunately not working, also not after installing "Broadcom-sta-common" package(s) (which does list BCM4313 as supported), or "firmware-b43-installer" (which does not list the BCM4313 chipset, but BCM4311 & BCM4318), on 'Stretch.' This is an 'Acer Aspire One' netbook laptop. The 'Lubuntu' distro managed to sporadically make it work, various
09:30<josjoha>fixes failed to provide a stable solution, hence it isn't a hardware problem. If anyone has any idea I would be grateful (I need it for labor Dutch union volunteer work). Thanks in advance !
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09:43<TimTool>Anyway to get a package to not appear under unmet dependencies
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09:47<Brigo>josjoha, fixes failed to provide a stable solution, hence it isn't a hardware problem?
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09:52<joshb_>Brigo, It is unlikely a problem of broken hardware, 'broken' defined as in not performing as manufactured. Software fixes do seem to have some influence on the performance of the card, it just isn't stable, or not working at all under 'Stretch'. There is a lot to be found on linux support problems with this wireless card.
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09:53<Brigo>joshb_, i just want to point out that behaviour is compatible with a hardware problem, but i don't think that's the problem.
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09:59<joshb_>Brigo, I understand the appearance that 'unstable' performance may be a hardware issue, however in this case I also don't think that is it, although it is of course theoretically possible. I've changed the software a lot, and it is not like it works for weeks and then suddenly starts jittering. It basically doesn't work, and one issue has been that once it looses Wifi then it cannot find any networks (as others have reported). This netbook
09:59<joshb_>has not been used much, is in excellent condition, the wireless card has basically never been used.
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10:23<Brigo>joshb_, have you checked firmware-brcm80211 package?
10:24<joshb_>Brigo, I haven't, will try it now, thanks
10:24<Brigo>it says it supports Broadcom BCM4313 (PCI ID 14e4:4727)
10:25<joshb_>ok sounds good
10:27<joshb_>no effect yet, but i'll restart it
10:27<Brigo>joshb_, you need to reload the driver, yes.
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10:33<joshb_>unfortunately no effect, dmesg seems to report nothing on a wireless card either afaics
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10:34<joshb_>wired connection does function well
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10:44<Brigo>joshb_, check if the (PCI ID 14e4:4727) is the same.
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10:51<joshb_>I see this in dmesg (typing it over): [ 0.364342] pci 0000:02:00.0: [14e4:4727] type 00 class 0x028000
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10:54<joshb_>Not sure what this means but this is from dmesg as well: [ 446.045055] bcma: bus0: Core 2 found: PCIe (manuf 0x4BF, id 0x820, rev 0x11, class 0x0)
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10:55<Brigo>joshb_, it is the right card. What channel are you using?
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11:03<joshb_>Brigo, ok good on the card then. I don't know what channel it is on, "> iwlist scan" gives "enp1s0 Interface doesn't support scanning." (which is a message I got a lot on previous attempts as well).
11:03<joshb_>Brigo, "> rfkill list" results in 0: acer-wireless: Wireless LAN \ Soft blocked: no \ Hard blocked: no
11:04<teatime>wouldn't enp1s0 be a wired ethernet iface?
11:04<Brigo>teatime, i don't think so.
11:05<Brigo>iwconfig enp1s0 will tell you.
11:05<Brigo>even iwconfig alone.
11:05<joshb_>i'm on it ;)
11:05<teatime>like, my machine has enp4s0 for wired and wlp3s0 for wireless
11:06<Brigo>that card is supported since kernel 2.6.39, so it should work fine.
11:06<teatime>but I actually do not know the rules at all
11:06<joshb_>ifconfig, ah I was just about to type that in too, gives: enp1s0 flags=4163<UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,MULTICAST> mtu 1500 ....
11:06<Brigo>then it is a wifi interface
11:06<joshb_>it was the same on this machine, as teatime says, wlp-something-something was wireless
11:06<teatime>joshb_: then the message from iwconfig about enp* is entirely expected and normal.
11:07<Brigo>if not you'll get: eth0 no wireless extensions.
11:07<joshb_>but that was not on Stretch, but on Lubuntu (which I installed due to another issue)
11:07<teatime>joshb_: ifconfig (which is deprecated, but still mostly works) will only show up interfaces by default, it's ifconfig -a to show all
11:08<joshb_>ok thank's, "> ifconfig -a" shows the same list, enp1s0 and lo (loopback that seems to be)
11:08<Brigo>ip a nowadays
11:09<teatime>joshb_: so rfkill sees your wifi device, but ifconfig/ip doesn't?
11:09<teatime>now that would be odd.
11:09<joshb_>"> ip a" lists the same: "lo" and "enp1s0"
11:09<grawity>tbh iwconfig is *even more* deprecated – in favor of iw (using nl80211 stack)
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11:10<grawity>...though maybe not for broadcom, sigh.
11:11<teatime>I honestly only bother to mention that ifconfig is deprecated so people here don't yell at me.
11:11<grawity>do you see a wiphy in `iw phy`?
11:11<teatime>there are a couple of things you can't do with it though
11:12<joshb_>grawity, not sure but should I try something with "iw phy" ? it gave no output, no error either terminated 0
11:13<grawity>nah, if it was detected, you'd have gotten some output
11:14<joshb_>i see, i guess we detected it wasn't detected then ^^
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11:15<joshb_>ftr, there is this wifi button, when I press it, "> rfkill list" sees that, saying "Soft blocked: yes, Hard blocked: no"
11:15<teatime>I said it was weird that rfkill sees that but it's actually not
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11:19<joshb_>i put in a random 'modprobe b43' earlier, not sure what that does but it did nothing, i'll reboot now
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11:20<noneofyou>hlw
11:20<grawity>tries to load the kernel module by that name – although device driver modules are normally loaded at connect/discover time, so it has no effect
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11:20<noneofyou>hello
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11:21<noneofyou>any parrotsec user arround here ?'
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11:21<noneofyou>any one
11:21<joshb_>right, that would be the way, detect, load/install etc
11:21<noneofyou>@joshb
11:21<noneofyou>how are you man ?
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11:26<joshb_>If I start 'wifi-radar', it gives the error: "[DATE/TIME]: get_network_device: No WiFi device found, ...
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11:28<teatime>right, your wifi device is def. not being found, currently.
11:28<nohumanek>join milionery
11:28<nohumanek>#join milionery
11:28<nohumanek>hm.....
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11:30<annadane>nohumanek, /join #milionery
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11:31<joshb_>previous errors tended to say something like "Wifi unsupported (firmware missing)", although that has disappeared from the XFCE panel when installing various firmware packages relating to this card. It now does not list anything about wifi on the panel anymore, indeed like it is entirely undetected.
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11:31<mahesh>hi
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11:32<nohumanek>annadane, thx
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11:33<teatime>joshb_: you can tell it isn't detected because no device exists for it. but presumably there might be helpful info in dmesg about it.
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11:41<joshb_>teatime, other then that cryptic [14e4:4727] type 00 class 0x028000, i see nothing relevant in dmesg, not by grepping nor by reading it all. Lots of other stuff detected but not a wireless card.
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11:43<teatime>you can find it's pciid from lspci and then grep for that
11:43<joshb_>an ACPI warning in dmesg: SystemIO range 0x0000.... not sure what that is about
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11:44<teatime>there'll be lots of red-herrings / error-looking things in dmesg that aren't relevant
11:44<joshb_>yes
11:46<joshb_>I get from lspci this on the card: 02:00.0 Network controller: Broadcom Limited BCM4313 802.11bgn Wireless Network Adapter (rev 01), grepping "# dmesg | grep 02:00.0" (if that's what you meant ?), there 5 lines on it, which seem routine but I can list them
11:48<teatime>that's not the pciid
11:48<teatime>it's like the bus location or something
11:49<teatime>lspci -n prints the IDs, but then it doesn't show the names :)
11:49<joshb_>... [14e4:4727] type 00 class 0x028000 \ reg 0x10: [mem 0x56000000-0x56003fff 64bit] \ supports D1 D2 \ PME# supported from D0 D3hot D3cold \ Signaling PME trhough PCIe PME interrupt
11:49<joshb_>ah ok, i try
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11:50<teatime>you can upload your whole dmesg and I'll look through it, if you like
11:51<joshb_>i get this on lspci -n "02:00.0 0280: 14e4:4727 (rev 01)"
11:51<teatime>k, 14e4:4727 is the pciid there
11:51<joshb_>ok if you would like to, I was already thinking of buying an USB Wifi (but then read that was also problematic in Stretch)
11:51<teatime>it depends which one, many are supported fine
11:51<teatime>it's in your best interests to research before buying though
11:52<joshb_>yes good point, it's a bit lame though, since this computer has a card installed
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11:53<mehrdad>hi
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11:56<joshb_>okay i hope i can type this: https://pastebin.com/YcW1muE4
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12:13<teatime>joshb_: I see nothing interesting, which generally means there's no driver for that device
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12:13<teatime>joshb_: https://wiki.debian.org/wl says the package broadcom-sta-dkms contains the driver for 14e4:4727; do you have that package installed?
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12:13<teatime>(it builds a kernel module.)
12:14<joshb_>I've read it 3 times and also saw nothing. I did install something like that, let me see if it is exactly that.
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12:15<joshb_>ok I have the other broadcom ones, but not that one ! maybe this is it then
12:15<teatime>oh also it's non-free
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12:15<joshb_>i figure its the source code, so not needed
12:15<teatime>hmm?
12:15<joshb_>i'll install it
12:16<JackOfAll>If I am on debian 7.6 and want to go to debian 8.9 Do I need to update debian 7 up to its final release then switch to debian 8, or can I just go straight from 7.6 to 8.9
12:16<bremner>I believe the former.
12:16<joshb_>installing ... i hope this it it ! ^^
12:16*teatime legit does not understand the difference between broadcom-sta-dkms and broadcom-sta-source, but it sounds like either should work, and it says -dkms might be 'easier to get working'
12:16<teatime>joshb_: I have high hopes.
12:17<joshb_>this is exciting ! *drumroll*
12:17<teatime>JackOfAll: read the release notes.
12:17<JackOfAll>teatime: 8.9 release?
12:17<teatime>JackOfAll: it's especially important given your older software.
12:17<joshb_>no effect yet but i'll reboot
12:18<teatime>JackOfAll: yes. but iirc it will instruct you to fully upgrade first, before beginning the upgrade from one dist to the next.
12:19<JackOfAll>teatime: If someone already pointed my sourcelist from wheezy to jessie, what is the easiest way to get the sourcelist needed for wheezy
12:20<teatime>JackOfAll: you didn't do any package upgrades like that did you? :)
12:20<JackOfAll>teatime: Me personally no. I don't know if others did
12:22<teatime>!wheezy-updates
12:22<dpkg>wheezy-updates is a suite providing updates to some packages (from <proposed-updates>) prior to a <point release>. All packages from wheezy-updates will be included in point releases. https://wiki.debian.org/StableUpdates . Not to be confused with <wheezy/updates> which is for <security> updates.
12:22<teatime>whoops
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12:22<teatime>!wheezy/updates
12:22<dpkg>On Debian 7 "Wheezy" systems, there are two repositories that you should have in your sources.list aside from your main mirror. You should have an entry for "wheezy/updates" which is security updates (ask me about <security>) and also an entry for "wheezy-updates" which is other updated packages (formerly known as volatile, ask me about <wheezy-updates>). See also <sources.list>, <lifespan>, <wheezy-lts>.
12:22<teatime>JackOfAll: ^^
12:23<joshb_>teatime, nothing, no visible changes, seems nothing is in dmesg about it
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12:23<teatime>joshb_: and you did install broadcom-sta-dkms and it seemed to build a kernel module and build an initramfs?
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12:24<JackOfAll>teatime: If someone installed a package while it was pointed to jessie, is there a way I can tell?
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12:25<teatime>JackOfAll: probably, but I can't think of a foolproof one at the moment
12:25<joshb_>teatime, i used the 'synaptic package manager,' I didn't look at the details of what it was doing but i can re-install it and look
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12:26<JackOfAll>teatime: Last thing, when I point it to jessie and do distro-upgrade, I get 8.10. How do I get it to do 8.9
12:26<teatime>joshb_: reinstall it from the command-line.
12:26<teatime>JackOfAll: to my knowledge that isn't especially possible.
12:26<joshb_>to be sure, I'm just looking at the desktop interface about the network being up, and trying the wifi on/off keyboard button
12:26<joshb_>okay
12:27<teatime>joshb_: oh, also, you can look at like 'ifconfig -a' to see if the device got detected
12:28<joshb_>"# ifconfig -a" gives an enp1s0 device, not sure what that is though, i think it's the wire
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12:30<teatime>it is
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12:31<teatime>ugh this looks annoyingly complicated, multiple drivers etc. for the same device, known bugs, etc.
12:31<joshb_>ah, something fishy going on ... "# apt-get install ..." -> Building for 4.9.0-4-amd64 \ Module build for kernel 4.9.0-4-amd64 was skipped since the kernel headers for this kernel does not seem to be installed.
12:31<joshb_>i guess i need kernel headers
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12:32<JackOfAll>teatime: Could I point my sourcelist to a cd with debian 8.9 for the upgrade? then when I am done point it back to the main repo to get the updates
12:32<teatime>yeah; is that your current kernel (uname -a) ?
12:32<teatime>joshb_: honestly I'm not sure this is even the best driver for you to use, as I've read more about it
12:32<teatime>joshb_: but feel free to install the kernel headers and try again
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12:33<teatime>JackOfAll: probably not because you probably have stuff installed that wouldn't be on the CD, and also that would be kind of pointless because the only difference between debian point releases, apart from perhaps some installer changes and you're not using the installer anyway, is package upgrades
12:33<joshb_>"# uname -a" -> Linux mrahat 4.9.0-4-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.9.65-3+deb9u1 (2017-12-23) x86_64 GNU/Linux
12:34<joshb_>i suppose it should be a dependency of that driver or something
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12:35<teatime>JackOfAll: why do you want to upgrade to 8.9 and not just to newest jessie?
12:35<joshb_>installing linux-headers-4.9.0-4-common ...
12:35<joshb_>and amd64
12:35<JackOfAll>teatime: My other servers are pointed to 8.9 and we want consistency
12:36<teatime>JackOfAll: how are they so?
12:36<JackOfAll>teatime: This is the only server that we are doing it through an upgrade and not fresh.
12:36<JackOfAll>teatime: I wasn't aware of 8.10 at the time
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12:36<teatime>JackOfAll: If I install from, say, a 9.2 CD, then apt-get upgrade, I am on newest stretch, not "9.2"
12:36<teatime>JackOfAll: debian point releases are not as meaningful as some other projects.
12:37<JackOfAll>teatime: We solely use apt-get update
12:37<teatime>JackOfAll: what?
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12:37<annadane>and also considering there are security fixes between point releases it's maybe an idea to update the rest of the servers also to 8.10
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12:37<teatime>annadane: surely he already has and just doesn't realize it
12:37<JackOfAll>teatime: We installed from the cd, then pointed the sourcelist to jessie and never ran apt-get upgrade
12:38<JackOfAll>teatime: As we wanted it on 8.9
12:38<teatime>JackOfAll: why would you do that? you like vulnerabilities?
12:38<Kezedy>is there a specific channel for old ati driver problems?
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12:39<annadane>and incidentally the security fixes aren't just when point releases are released, point releases are just a rounding up of the bug fixes/security fixes that have accumulated in the interim
12:39<annadane>so it's good to if you don't have some way of automatically notifying of updates to periodically check yourself
12:40<teatime>JackOfAll: considering how conservative Debian is w/ stable updates, if an update is pushed to stable (or oldstable in this case) you almost certainly want to install it.
12:41<teatime>JackOfAll: you realize apt-get update never installs updated packages, right?
12:41<annadane>perhaps once a week or so
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12:42<JackOfAll>teatime: 8.10 is stable?
12:42<teatime>JackOfAll: debian 8 is oldstable. point releases are almost pointless to talk about.
12:42<teatime>JackOfAll: 9, stretch, is current stable.
12:42<joshb_>teatime, it is compiling things now, talking about initramfs, i'll reboot
12:42<teatime>joshb_: excellent.
12:43<annadane>8.10 is the newest point release of the oldstable branch; debian 9 stretch is stable of which 9.3 is the newest point release but of course the migration to that is more involved than a point release
12:43<annadane>official jessie support ends in june, so consider migration options in the near future
12:43<joshb_>teatime, :)
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12:44<annadane>though i don't know how many people run their servers using just the resources from the LTS group
12:44<joshb_>teatime ... the wifi light is on !!!!!!! let's see what that means
12:44<annadane>i suppose you technically could run jessie until 2020, ymmv
12:45<teatime>joshb_: even if it's working, you may experience some issues according to https://wiki.debian.org/wl#issues
12:45<joshb_>teamite yayyay so exciting, I see the local wifi networks listed
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12:46<annadane>i've never been very clear on the difference between regular support and lts, i really need to educate myself on that
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12:47<joshb_>teatime, we done ...^H^H you done it ! i got connection with my wifi server thingy modem, working, it loads I'net pages
12:49<teatime>joshb_: if you encounter erroneous disconnects, that page ^^ has a workaround
12:49<blast007>annadane: https://wiki.debian.org/LTS/Using#Check_for_unsupported_packages
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12:50<joshb_>teatime, the keyboard wifi on/off switch also worked, it got Wifi back up after being out, which was a problem before, although I've seen it working properly and then later still failing so will have to see how it goes. OK I will look at that thank you.
12:50<annadane>i believe lts is purely for security, no bug fixes, that may be wrong
12:50<teatime>joshb_: this driver you've installed is actually a closed-source proprietary one... which sometimes means things will work better than the open-source alternative, but comes w/ some, er, caveats and drawbacks.
12:50<blast007>annadane: and if you look at the source, you'll see various security-support* files that list packages with no/limited support: https://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/collab-maint/debian-security-support.git/tree/
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12:52<joshb_>teatime ok really happy about this, i don't even have a mobile phone so this thing is rather relevant and it looks so dumb if you have to say "yes this is linux, but wifi doesn't work" (even when it's usually not our fault, IMHO). Thanks again.
12:52<teatime>np.
12:52<annadane>!next
12:52<dpkg>Another happy customer leaves the building.
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12:52<joshb_>teatime+
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12:59<teatime>JackOfAll: I could be wrong about it being near-impossible to apt-upgrade to a specific point release or point in time instead of newest versions within a major release.
13:00<teatime>JackOfAll: but even if so, I'm fairly sure you don't really want to do that.
13:01<teatime>JackOfAll: see http://snapshot.debian.org/
13:01<annadane>especially on a server you should just have the latest versions in whatever stable/oldstable branch you're using
13:01<annadane>and if you're still running oldoldstable... don't
13:02<teatime>I thought you could only download individual debs from here but it looks like it does present a repo interface.
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13:02<teatime>so you can do what you asked. but I swear it isn't what you want.
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13:05<JackOfAll>teatime: Yeah I saw that, and that will take hours
13:05<JackOfAll>teatime: I am discussing on my side the next plan of actions
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13:07<teatime>JackOfAll: just realize debian point releases are not like e.g. RHEL point releases; there is no support whatsoever for an old point release; meanwhile, a newer point release has only updates related to critical bugs and security vulnerabilities.
13:07<JackOfAll>teatime: Thank you for your assistance though.
13:07<JackOfAll>teatime: The current highest is debian 9?
13:08<teatime>JackOfAll: that's current stable, stretch, yes.
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13:09<annadane>if you decide to update to debian 9 then you should read the release notes when it comes time to update; https://www.debian.org/releases/stretch/amd64/release-notes/
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13:10<annadane>that's a considerably lenghtier migration than just upgrades between point releases
13:10<joshb_>This new debian release is very good (seen them since Potato), painless on a PC, not one problem, everything auto-detected etc.
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13:11<teatime>I agree. It is finally the case that I can tell my total newbie friends to install Debian :)
13:11<joshb_>teatime, exactly, i felt this is great for anybody now, never before really had that feeling. yay !
13:11<annadane>https://www.xkcd.com/963/
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13:12<joshb_>may have to do with my hardware being a bit older though, which I like so it is better supported
13:13<teatime>h/w support is not really on Debian, but that also has been improving steadily over the years.
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13:14<joshb_>it's a bit unfortunate i feel, that a lot of effort goes in new distros, but i guess that's what freedom is for hehe
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13:43<Ionic_>I have a package that needs to be built multiple times, solved that via --builddirectory and multiple dh_auto_* overrides - but I also want to apply quilt patches and it looks like dh is trying to apply the patches in the top-level directory and then again for every builddir... can I get rid of this?
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13:45<grawity>'bird' comes to mind as a similar package
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13:48<Ionic_>hm, interesting
13:48<Ionic_>it's not using multiple builddirectory parameters though, wonder how that works
13:48<Ionic_>and it also doesn't have special quilt handling
13:49<Ionic_>ah yes, -Bfoo
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14:18<CloudNineK>Heya when I run sudo dkms autoinstall I get an error saying my kernel headers for 4.13 cannot be found
14:19<CloudNineK>is my kernel behind or something, I'm a bit of a novice
14:19<somiaj>Do yo uhave the headers installed, they are in a seperate package called linux-headers-<version>
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14:19<somiaj>4.13 is not a current kernel, so it coudl be the headers don't match the installed kernels
14:19<somiaj>it coudl also be you have 4.13 installed but are not runnign it. What version of debian are you running?
14:19<CloudNineK>I don't see the linux-headers-generic but I do have 4.14.0-3-amd64
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14:19<blast007>there's a metapackage for each architecture too that you can install so it follows the kernel version
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14:20<somiaj>CloudNineK: that is the 4.14 headers, not the 4.13 headers.
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14:21<CloudNineK>I'm running Debian GNU/Linux buster/sid
14:21<somiaj>I think yo ushould also run 'dpkg-reconfigure packagename-dkms', you'll have to do this for each dkms package, but unlike 'dkms autoinstall', it should only build modeules for kernels you have the headers installed and not error out
14:21<somiaj>CloudNineK: in the future you should be asking for support in #debian-next
14:22<CloudNineK>Ah, my apologies.
14:22<somiaj>Most likely, you just have an older kernel installed, run 'uname -a', if you are running the older kernel, reboot to the newer one.
14:22<somiaj>You can also get older header packages for older kernels at snapshot.debian.org
14:22<CloudNineK>Linux X220 4.13.0-1-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.13.13-1 (2017-11-16) x86_64 GNU/Linux
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14:23<CloudNineK>So does the kernel not update with apt-get upgrade?
14:23<somiaj>and as blast007 said, install the linux-headers-amd64 package so it keeps the headers upto date either.
14:23<somiaj>it will only update if yo uhave the meta package, linux-image-amd64 installed
14:23<somiaj>CloudNineK: actually, no it won't, apt-get upgrade will not install new packages, you need 'apt upgrade', or 'apt-get dist-upgrade' to get a new kernel.
14:24<CloudNineK>!! that sounds like something I was missing. Thanks, did not know that.
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14:38<Ionic_>meh, something seems to be applying the patches twice, but I have no idea what
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14:52<Ionic_>oh, crap, I'm just stupid, nevermind...
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15:20<rob_debian>Hi all
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15:25<rob_debian>Please, I basically use 'btrfs' in my Debian installations, but I have one of them using 'xfs' and 'ext4'. I can see 'ntfs' partitions using both 'xfs' and 'ext4' but can't see windows partitions with 'btrfs'. Is there anything wrong with my 'btrfs' partition, or it's unable to see 'ntfs' through other hard disk ?
15:26<teatime>rob_debian: ntfs is completely unrelated to ext4/xfs/btrfs
15:27<retrospectacus>the answer is no. There is nothing wrong with your btrfs partition.
15:28<teatime>rob_debian: the reason some of your installs cannot "see" ntfs has nothing to do with ext4/xfs/btrfs
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15:31<rob_debian>thanks teatime and retrospectacus. Well, I don't understand why I can see 'ntfs' through 'xfs' and 'ext4', but can't see it using 'btrfs'. I have the same good result seeing 'ntfs' using 'zfs'
15:32<teatime>rob_debian: what you're saying does not make sense.
15:32<rob_debian>teatime, please, do you have any idea why I can't see 'ntfs' partition using debian with 'btrfs' ?
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15:32<teatime>rob_debian: whatever the reason, it's not related to using btrfs
15:32<teatime>rob_debian: maybe you need to install a package like ntfs-3g
15:33<rob_debian>I see, teatime, so just type as root: 'apt-get install ntfs-3g' ?
15:34<teatime>rob_debian: you can try that, but honestly I have no idea what even your symptoms are.
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15:35<rob_debian>ok, teatime, thanks for attention and great support ! the same to you, retrospectacus, really thank you :)
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15:39<retrospectacus>good luck.
15:40<rob_debian>thanks, retrospectacus !
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15:46<Ionic_>urgh... now I need an example for a package that splits up libraries and stuff, with multiarch... I guess libssl will come in handy
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15:47<Ionic_>ah of course, usr/lib/*/libfoo.so
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16:05<ferhat>hi
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16:25<dpkgaudit>I'm trying to have dpkg check for broken packages, with dpkg --audit but it says need an action option
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16:28<dpkgaudit>Must be because I didnt run it in sudo
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16:34<teatime>define broken
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18:51<kb3ien>Is there any standard way to create a group to which users must belong in order that they interact with the networking elements of the UI. I'm running gallium, not actually debian, fyi.
18:52<somiaj>!gallium
18:52<dpkg>well, gallium is an element which amalgamates well with arsenide and always gets his way, or lacks a sense of humor ;)
18:52<somiaj>hmm, nevermind. Anyways standard policy here is we only support debian pureblends.
18:53<somiaj>And your answer will depend on what you use to manage the network. If using network manager, you'll have to look into restricting access to configuing network manager. You could also just disable network manager completely, and use another form to manage the network which could give more indvudial conrtol.
18:54<somiaj>https://askubuntu.com/questions/283142/how-can-i-restrict-users-fom-changing-network-settings-and-adding-new-connection
18:54<somiaj>hmm, according to that you won't be able to configure network manager, you may just have to disable it and find a different method to control the network.
18:55<somiaj>https://www.liberiangeek.net/2012/03/prevent-regular-users-from-disabling-networking-in-ubuntu-11-10-oneiric-ocelot/ -- seems to suggest it is possible. Your milage may vary.
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18:59<kb3ien>yeah, I think my assumption that it is a Good Idea, may run afowl of nm's philosophy.
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19:21<Arpegius>I've created a service with Require Stop: apache2, however it doesn't stop after apache2 at shutdown, how can I fix it?
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21:03<crash_bandicoot02>how can i install the lastest version of kodi i guess krypton in debian jessie???
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21:06<duncan>crash_bandicoot02: You should upgrade to Stretch, Jessie is oldstable
21:06<crash_bandicoot02>duncan, really i didnt know since when jessie become oldstable?
21:07<annadane>stretch became stable on june 17 2017
21:07<annadane>so... then
21:07<duncan>http://kodi.wiki/view/HOW-TO:Install_Kodi_for_Linux
21:08<crash_bandicoot02>ok so how can i upgrade to stretch by repo?
21:08<duncan>It is *so* handy that the Kodi developers kindly put installation instructions on their wiki page! :)
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21:09<annadane>if you want to upgrade to stretch then read the release notes https://www.debian.org/releases/stretch/amd64/release-notes/
21:09<duncan>That's a good resource.
21:09<sney>kodi is in main these days so you don't really need instructions to install it
21:09<sney>"apt-get install kodi" and wait
21:09<duncan>User asked for instructions
21:10<sney>oh, "latest version"
21:10<crash_bandicoot02>sney, i want krypton is not even in the backports
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21:10<annadane>,v krypton
21:10<judd>No package named 'krypton' was found in amd64.
21:10<duncan>You could always use something that isn't Kodi to play music and videos
21:10<sney>annadane: ... that's the codename for upstream's current bleeding edge
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21:10<duncan>like VLC. Or mpv.
21:11<annadane>or windows media player! :D
21:11<sney>also, the version of kodi in stable is perfectly fine and usable (source: me) so I wonder if this isn't a case of SNS... either way, kodi hosts their own 3rd party repo and you can probably get it there. but #debian will not support that if you do.
21:11<crash_bandicoot02>ok but can someone send me a good tutorial of how to upgrade to stretch
21:11<crash_bandicoot02>??
21:11<annadane>i just linked you it
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21:11<annadane>https://www.debian.org/releases/stretch/amd64/release-notes/
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21:12<crash_bandicoot02>ok i gonna take a look
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21:15<annadane>! jessie->stretch
21:15<dpkg>Read (at least) the upgrading chapter of the <release notes> http://deb.li/OFVv . In /etc/apt/sources.list, change "jessie" to "stretch" and remove stable-specific lines like jessie-backports. apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade. 3rd party repos like <dmo> are known to cause problems with the upgrade.
21:15<annadane>crash_bandicoot02, ^
21:15<annadane>but yes do read the release notes
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21:16<crash_bandicoot02>alright let me back up my data
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21:21<crash_bandicoot02>annadane, i have gnome 3 with the new upgrade i gonna still have gnome 3 as my default desktop enviroment
21:21<crash_bandicoot02>??
21:21<annadane>yeah, that won't change
21:21<annadane>you'll just get a newer version
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21:22<sney>,v gnome-core
21:22<judd>Package: gnome-core on amd64 -- wheezy: 1:3.4+7+deb7u1; jessie: 1:3.14+3; stretch: 1:3.22+3; buster: 1:3.22+7; sid: 1:3.22+8
21:22<sney>from 3.14 to 3.22. probably not a huge change
21:22<crash_bandicoot02>ok but i gonna lose all my data and software?
21:22<annadane>...probably not, but back up what you need anyway
21:23<annadane>debian aims to try to make transitions smooth
21:23<annadane>you're not "replacing jessie", you're upgrading a bunch of software
21:23<crash_bandicoot02>ok so until when stretch gonna be the new stable
21:23<crash_bandicoot02>?
21:23<sney>!wwbr
21:23<dpkg>GO AWAY. I'M RESTING! I'VE ONLY JUST RELEASED STRETCH!
21:24<sney>we don't know, probably in 3ish years
21:24<annadane>until buster releases which will probably be like 2020
21:24<crash_bandicoot02>lol
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21:24<annadane>dpkg is getting lazy
21:24<dpkg>annadane: are you smoking crack?
21:25<sney>and "oldstable" releases are supported for a while after. debian 7 (wheezy) is still supported LTS until this May
21:26<crash_bandicoot02>sney, so why jessie end before wheezy
21:26<crash_bandicoot02>?
21:26<sney>it didn't. LTS is extended support for older releases
21:26<somiaj>jessie won't, jessie will enter lts phase, in lts not all software is given support (mostly only server stuff)
21:26<sney>!jessie-lts
21:26<dpkg>Security support for Debian 8 "jessie" from the Debian Security Team should end around 2018-05. The amd64, i386, armel and armhf architectures will receive additional long term support (<LTS>) via <jessie/updates> until around 2020 for a 5 year lifetime total. See https://wiki.debian.org/LTS for more information
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21:27<somiaj>also in jessie, currently chromium is no longer supported, and the version of chromium in jessie has known issues.
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21:28<somiaj>and once LTS hits, security issues with primarally desktop applications may not get fixed.
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21:44<draker>hola a todos
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21:46<duncan>sure...
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22:01<crash_bandicoot02>sney, what about the backport i should let them there the same or erase or replace them
22:01<crash_bandicoot02>?
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22:08<somiaj>crash_bandicoot02: you want to remove the backport sources during the upgrade.
22:08<somiaj>crash_bandicoot02: similar with any third party sources. Backports should be okay, but sometimes third party packages can get in the way of the upgrade, and you may need to remove them and install them later.
22:09<annadane>and also sometimes backports will *become* the newest version you want anyway
22:10<somiaj>they should always become the newest version, jessie-backports packages are all less version thant he package in stretch.
22:10<annadane>ah i guess there's the freeze, i was just thinking of frequently updated packages
22:11<somiaj>jessie-backports are all packages from stretch (while it was testing or now that it is released).
22:11<somiaj>You maybethinking of jessie-sloppy-backports, which will be backports from things newer than stretch. I don't see many people use these.
22:11<annadane>right
22:12<somiaj>and the version is setup to be less than the stretch package of the same version, so yea, backport packages should nicely upgrade with everything else, third party packages can be more problematic.
22:12<crash_bandicoot02>ok so in order to have a clean upgrade i should remove them from the sources.list
22:12<crash_bandicoot02>?
22:12<annadane>remove or comment them out
22:12<annadane>though i'd probably just remove the backports
22:12<somiaj>crash_bandicoot02: correct, you dont' want to have 'stretch-backports' in your sources.list during the upgrade. You can add it after you upgrade.
22:13<somiaj>and you want to remove (well replace) all jessie sources with stretch sources.
22:13<annadane>as far as third party whatever you do you should at least write them down on a piece of paper/note it somewhere so you don't forget what you had
22:14<crash_bandicoot02>ok what about the obsolete packages in my system i should remove them too
22:14<crash_bandicoot02>?
22:14<crash_bandicoot02>before the upgrade
22:14<somiaj>you have some now? or after the upgrade?
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22:15<crash_bandicoot02>somiaj, i didnt upgrade yet
22:15<somiaj>crash_bandicoot02: by obsolete, do you mean packages not in jessie, or packages in jessie that will no longer be in stretch?
22:16<crash_bandicoot02>i mean if a run aptitude search ~o give obsolete packages right? cause i have some in jessie mark with the letter i
22:17<somiaj>Just double checking, did you change your sources to stretch, or are your sources still set at jessie?
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22:18<crash_bandicoot02>my sources still with jessie i didnt start the upgrade i was doing back up first now i ready for upgrade what do you suggest
22:18<somiaj>I would remove packages that are not from jessie before the upgrade, so yes.
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22:19<somiaj>the upgrade aws designed to upgrade jessie packages to stretch, thirdparty (or obslete packages), that are not from jessie could cause problems. Though you may want to keep track if it is software you use.
22:19<crash_bandicoot02>ok but what do you mean with double checking them??
22:20<somiaj>crash_bandicoot02: I meant, if you run aptitude ~o, it uses your curent sources.list, so if your sources.list were stretch, that list won't help until after the upgrade. But since you said your sources are still jessie, then yes that is a useful list of things not installable form jessie.
22:21<somiaj>so I was double checking that you hadn't changed your sources before answering.
22:24<crash_bandicoot02>somiaj, ok so every package aptitude search ~o give me i should remove them while i still in jessie right
22:24<crash_bandicoot02>?
22:25<awal1>~o means obsolete
22:25<somiaj>crash_bandicoot02: I would.
22:25<somiaj>crash_bandicoot02: is it a big list?
22:26<awal1>no longer available on debian, no longer maintained/developed and so
22:26<somiaj>awal1: it actually means, 'no longer avaialble in your current sources'
22:26<somiaj>so it could also list thrid party packages
22:26<awal1>somiaj, ahm
22:27<crash_bandicoot02>somiaj, not just 5 packages
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22:28<somiaj>crash_bandicoot02: should be fine
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22:29<crash_bandicoot02>somiaj, ok so let me remove the obsolete packages and the backports that it right? then i good to go right
22:29<crash_bandicoot02>?
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22:30<somiaj>by remove backports, you just mean sources? Yes.
22:30<crash_bandicoot02>somiaj, yes the sources list in /etc
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22:32<somiaj>sounds good
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22:34<crash_bandicoot02>alright
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23:10-!-crash_bandicoot02 is "kurt anderson" on #debian
23:11<crash_bandicoot02>somiaj,
23:11<crash_bandicoot02>one last question
23:11<crash_bandicoot02>are you there
23:11<crash_bandicoot02>?
23:12<annadane>it's maybe faster to just ask your question
23:13-!-maher [~maher@2604:2000:1281:c0da:e10f:70a4:70ca:a696] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
23:14<crash_bandicoot02>ok
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23:14-!-HermanDE is "realname" on #debian
23:14<crash_bandicoot02>look here https://pastebin.com/tFzfcMV1
23:14<crash_bandicoot02>i have to change my sources just like that
23:15<annadane>looks fine
23:15<annadane>although your mileage may vary with deb.debian.org, some people have problems with it
23:16<annadane>but you can probably just leave it like that
23:16<annadane>for stable it should be fine
23:17<crash_bandicoot02>so i good to go or i have to change something
23:17<crash_bandicoot02>now is the time
23:17<crash_bandicoot02>?
23:18-!-pabs [~pabs@pabs.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
23:18-!-pabs is "http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise" on #debian-toolchain #debian-voip #debian-welcome #debian-www #devscripts #lowRISC #multiarch #reproducible-builds #licenses #debian-mips #debian-mobile #packaging #debconf #debian-localgroups #debconf-infra #debian-outreach #debian-til
23:18<annadane>i can
23:18<annadane>oops
23:18<annadane>i can't think of anything else other than what we discussed
23:19<crash_bandicoot02>i already clean those obsolete packages
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23:25-!-kmshanah is "Kevin Shanahan" on #debian
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23:30-!-alice is "alice" on #debian-kde #debian
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23:36-!-sunilmohan_ is "Sunil Mohan Adapa" on #freedombox #freedombox-ci #monkeysphere #debian-reproducible #debian #debian-boot #debian-js #pere #debian-webapps #debian-in #debian-diaspora #debian-arm #debian-blends
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23:56-!-schoppenhauer1 is "css" on #bitlbee
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---Logclosed Sat Jan 27 00:00:06 2018