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#debian IRC Logs for 2018-02-02

---Logopened Fri Feb 02 00:00:15 2018
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01:36<that_one_guy_79812>I just installed debian on my laptop, and then when I try to start the laptop, it just goes into a blank screen. I did notice during the installation process that it said I might need non-free firmware for some of the hardware. I installed the debian 9.3.0 iso with non-free firmware from usb. This is my second try and I really want to get this to work. Can someone help me? (if you couldn't already tell I'm a linux newbie).
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01:37<annadane>that may indicate a flawed way of copying the iso to usb, via something like unetbootin or rufus
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01:41<that_one_guy_79812>I used win32diskmanager as recommended on the debian installation page. I tested it on an old netbook which installed with no problems. Only difference between the laptops is the old netbook is bios, integrated graphics, and old; while new laptop is UEFI, dedicated graphics (SLI), and new.
01:42<awal1>that_one_guy_79812, following annadane "thinking", amd64 iso image ?
01:42<that_one_guy_79812>yes
01:43<that_one_guy_79812>9.3.0 with non-free firmware
01:45<awal1>non-free firmware needed while using non-free iso?
01:45<awal1>is your lap top very new?
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01:47<that_one_guy_79812>Sorry I meant I was using the "non-free iso" I just worded it funny. It is about a year old now. It has been collecting dust because I have not been able to use it. i7-7700K intel processor with dual Nvidia GTX 1080s in SLI.
01:49<annadane>may be a missing GRUB issue
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01:49<that_one_guy_79812>what do you mean?
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01:50<Nemoder>missing grub would usually give some bios disk error, if it's a black screen that could be a failure with setting the video mode
01:50<Nemoder>https://wiki.debian.org/KernelModesetting
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01:53<that_one_guy_79812>How would I go about fixing that?
01:55<Nemoder>you'll have to boot a rescue or live image, mount the installed drive and change the options in grub
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01:56<cef>that_one_guy_79812: the issue is probably the fact that the i7-7700K has integrated graphics, and if it's also got GTX graphics as well, it's probably getting confused as to how to set the output. You might need to look into Bumblebee (the software for using these switching video setups), or see if there is a way to turn off either the integrated or GTX part in the bios.
01:57<Nemoder>good point, also I don't know of any real reason to use SLI in debian as I don't think any applications or games can make much use of it
01:59<cef>afaik mesa supports SLI.. but not tried it myself
01:59<that_one_guy_79812>I don't plan to use the graphics cards in that configuration (SLI) I want to run virtual machines on the laptop. I think the best thing would be to turn on the GTX cards as I think those are the problem. But how do I do that?
02:00<cef>that_one_guy_79812: look in the bios first to see if you can disable them that way.
02:00<cef>that_one_guy_79812: also have you tried switching virtual terminals to see if you can get text mode going?
02:00<cef>that_one_guy_79812: if you can get a text cli, you can get a lot more info
02:01*cef wait for phone company to answer their support line.. *sigh*
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02:01<budaboss>hello guyz
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02:02<budaboss>can someone inform me of how anonymous function work
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02:03<that_one_guy_79812>the bios does not have any options for disabling graphics cards
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02:04<that_one_guy_79812>what do you mean by "switching virtual terminals"? Also I tried to boot a live cd image but it gave me the same thing, just a blank screen.
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02:05<that_one_guy_79812>I am in rescue mode now though from the installer.
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02:07<Nemoder>you can switch to a virtual text terminal with ctrl-alt-f2
02:08<Nemoder>assuming the system got past startup
02:09<that_one_guy_79812>I was in rescue mode's cli shell and pressed ctrl-alt-f2 and now I have another blank screen
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02:10<that_one_guy_79812>nevermind everything is ok
02:10<that_one_guy_79812>I'm sitting at a cli
02:11<that_one_guy_79812>but now I don't know what to do
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02:12<Nemoder>can you access the the virtual term from the installed image or only from rescue image?
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02:18<that_one_guy_79812>I restarted it and it looks like I can reach the terminal either way
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02:44<that_one_guy_79812>I have made progress! I figured out what to change in grub at the boot/start screen to get video with the "nomodeset" entry. Now I just need to figure out how to make what I did permanent or get drivers figured out, any suggestions?
02:50<ivan>edit /etc/default/grub
02:50<ivan>GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX=
02:50<ivan>then run update-grub
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02:54<that_one_guy_79812>to run update-grub I need to be connected to the internet right? right now I'm offline.
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02:55<teatime>nope, it doesn't use the internet :)
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02:58<that_one_guy_79812>i'm in the /etc/default/grub file and can see the entry GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX=" " and at the same time I see GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet" ....... which one do I change, and should I replace it with "nomodeset" or something else?
03:00<that_one_guy_79812>also when I run update-grub do I do that from the terminal/cli?
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03:06<itd>that_one_guy_79812: I'd go with using GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT. Yes, run update-grub from the commandline.
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03:13<that_one_guy_79812>when I run update grub from the command line do I use update grub, update-grub, apt update grub, or how exactly do I right that (remember I'm linux newbie)?
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03:15<sney>become root, start typing the word "update", then hit tab until you see the command that you kind of remember
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03:17<that_one_guy_79812>I did the update-grub command but it will not let me save changes to the file? What should I do?
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03:19<Nemoder>you need to edit the file as root to save it
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03:22<that_one_guy_79812>how do I edit the file as root?
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03:24<Nemoder>logout then login as root user. or use su. or setup sudo
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03:27<that_one_guy_79812>Don't know if it helps but the error it gave me specifically said "can't open file to write"
03:28<that_one_guy_79812>I tried to overwrite it with the "nomodeset" entry. Should I logout and login in again like you said, or could I just save another copy and delete the old one?
03:29<that_one_guy_79812>Also I opened the file with leafpad.
03:29<that_one_guy_79812>text editor.
03:29<sney>you need to be the root user to edit files owned by root
03:29<sney>this is usually done with sudo or su
03:29<sney>!grounding
03:29<dpkg>Before asking in here or on the <debian-user> mailing list, you should read the Installation Guide, or if you already have Debian installed, the Debian Reference. The Debian Administrator's Handbook is also good. Ask me about <ig>, <overview>, <reference>, <refcard>, <docs>, <manuals>, <fundamentals>, <newbiedoc>, <faq>, <unix lessons>, <general cli tutorial>, <debian-handbook> (e.g. in your IRC client, type /msg dpkg reference).
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03:34<that_one_guy_79812>Alright I feel kinda dumb, but I got that figured out. Reboots fine to login screen. Now all I need I guess is to figure out my firmware situation.
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03:39<that_one_guy_79812>Would it be easiest to add firmware files through the install/setup process again or is there some other way to do that now that I can login and everything?
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03:45<itd>that_one_guy_79812: Using your existing install is probably easier. (Which firmware is missing?)
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03:50<that_one_guy_79812>during the install process the stuff that popped up was "iwlwifi-8265-26.ucode iwlwifi-8265-25.ucode iwlwifi-8265-24.ucode iwlwifi-8265-23.ucode" also I am guessing I need some stuff for my nvidia graphics cards since I had to use "nomodeset" in grub to get to the login screen right?
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04:01<itd>that_one_guy_79812: To determine your firmware situation, have a look at the output of "journalctl" (run it as root) and lines mentioning "firmware".
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04:02<itd>that_one_guy_79812: Regarding those "ucode"s - sounds like you need to install firmware-iwlwifi (in non-free).
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04:04<itd>dpkg: bumblebee
04:04<dpkg>The Bumblebee project aims to provide support for the Nvidia Optimus GPU switching technology on Linux systems. GeForce 400M (4xxM) and later mobile GPU series are Optimus-enabled; if «lspci -nn | grep '\''[030[02]\]'» returns two lines, the laptop likely uses Optimus. Packaged for Debian <jessie> and <wheezy-backports>. http://wiki.debian.org/Bumblebee http://bumblebee-project.org/ #bumblebee on irc.freenode.net.
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04:18<that_one_guy_79812>So I looked at "journalctl" and it had those 4 same wifi drivers/firmware listed as "failed to load" "with error -2". It says that but I can see that the wifi card is picking up network signals so not sure how serious that is? Also what is this about bumblebee and nvidia optimus GPU switching? What does "switching" in GPU switching mean?
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04:21<that_one_guy_79812>the wifi firmware drivers that failed to load were list as numbers 26-23 but it says number 22 loaded fine/successfully, so not sure if that is a problem or not? I have not tried to connect to a network yet though......
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04:24<itd>that_one_guy_79812: If the card picks up network signals, ignore these errors for now.
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04:29<itd>that_one_guy_79812: Switching: "Using Bumblebee, you can use your NVIDIA card for rendering graphics which will be displayed using the Intel card."
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04:30<itd>that_one_guy_79812: I.e. off-load work to the (powerful) NVIDIA card (consumes more power, but has better performance).
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04:33<that_one_guy_79812>is that a common thing by default? Are most people using that feature? I am wanting enable support for the graphics cards at this point. I'm thinking of running virtual machines; will bumblebee work with virtual machines? Also how can I find out if the graphics cards are working properly? I know at this point I assume something is wrong or I need something extra for the graphics cards but how can I check/be sure?
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04:38<itd>that_one_guy_79812: (Assuming: "that" = Optimus/Bumblebee.) My impression is: nowadays yes. Not sure. What do you mean with "work with virtual machines"? With https://unix.stackexchange.com/a/185062 maybe.
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04:44<that_one_guy_79812>What I mean by work with virtual machines is that I want to setup KVM to run windows guests and have debian as my host os.
04:46<Nemoder>it's likely possible but nvidia+laptops is probably the most annoying hardware to deal with for that
04:46<that_one_guy_79812>Well regrettably that is the situation I am in at this point. :'(
04:47<Nemoder>well as suggested try setting up optimus and see if you can get regular native apps working with that first
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04:58<that_one_guy_79812>I put this lspci -nn | grep '\''[030[02]\]' into the command line it only gave me a list describing lspci usage.
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05:03<duclicsic>that_one_guy_79812: your grep string looks broken. are you looking to match [0300] and [0302] ?
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05:04<duclicsic>in that you're matching a literal ' then giving it a second argument
05:04<duclicsic>try grep '\[030[02]\]'
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05:06<pipedream>is this a bug? 0 root@muizenberg:~#update-desktop-database /usr/share/applications/
05:06<pipedream>Error in file "/usr/share/applications/evince.desktop": "" is an invalid MIME type ("" does not contain a subtype)
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05:08<that_one_guy_79812>I am not sure what I am doing.
05:12<towo^work>then what are you trying to do?
05:13<that_one_guy_79812>I also tried this lspci -vnnn | perl -lne 'print if /^\d+\:.+(\[\S+\:\S+\])/' | grep VGA. It gave me this 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: NVIDIA Corporation GP104M [GeForce GTX 1080] [10de:1be0] (rev a1) (prog-if 00 [VGA controller])
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05:15<that_one_guy_79812>I am trying to tell if my laptop is using Nvidia Optimus technology. Also I am trying to tell if my graphics cards are working correctly or if I need to install firmware/drivers? Early to get video on my install I had to edit GRUB with "nomodeset". Not sure what all this means.
05:16<that_one_guy_79812>Earlier*
05:17<towo^work>that_one_guy_79812, lspci | egrep -i "vga|3d|display"
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05:22<that_one_guy_79812>I got 2 lines. First one 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: NVIDIA Corporation GP104M [GeForece GTX 1080] (rev a1). Second one 02:00.0 3D controller: NVIDIA corporation GP104M [GeForce GTX 1080] (rev a1)
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05:23<that_one_guy_79812>@towo^work
05:23<towo^work>yes, that's optimus
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05:24<that_one_guy_79812>So that means that right now my laptop is using optimus, or it just means that it is possibly maybe supported?
05:24<towo^work>and i would get rid with such hardware, optimus and linux is PITA
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05:25<towo^work>bumblebee is a crutch, not a solution
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05:30<itd>that_one_guy_79812: The latter.
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05:33<that_one_guy_79812>so right now that it is not doing anything, are you recommending that I should get rid of it? I was planning on isolating the graphics cards for individual virtual machines but is that something I could maybe use on the fly if I'm just using the host? Is it really a PITA? Even if a PITA does it work good?
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05:37<towo^work>that_one_guy_79812, if you mean with "isolating the graphics cards for individual virtual machines" passthrough, that does not work
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05:46<that_one_guy_79812>what do you mean "that does not work"? I have seen lots of people/videos showing it working using kvm/qemu. I can have debian as my host with one of the graphics cards and just passthrough the others to the virtual machines right? I have done that on windows/vmware/virtualbox.
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05:48<nullnone>hi
05:48<towo^work>that_one_guy_79812, no, you can't with optimus
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05:48<towo^work>that_one_guy_79812, in optimus the dGPU is not wired to any display output
05:49<towo^work>that_one_guy_79812, since the dGPU is rendering direct to the framebuffer of the iGPU, you can't passthrough such card to a vm
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05:53<that_one_guy_79812>tomo^work: So what if I have more than 1 dGPU? Also if I wanted to could I just turn optimus "on/off" when I want it or don't want it?
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05:56<towo^work>i have never seen a notebook, which has more than one dGPU
05:56<towo^work>and nowdays, optimus is mostly tot switchable#
05:56<towo^work>*not
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06:02<that_one_guy_79812>towo^work: well I have a "desktop replacement" laptop, a big heavy ass laptop with 2 dGPUs. Also does it even matter, what if it was a regular desktop/tower with multiple GPUs? I think ideawise it should work. Also my other question, can you easily turn optimus/switchblade "on/off"?
06:03<towo^work>thegodlikehobo, from your lspci, where you see 2 dGPU?
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06:04<towo^work>that_one_guy_79812, and again, mostly optimus can't be disabled/enabled
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06:05<towo^work>and from later reading "I have done that on windows/vmware/virtualbox." never ever
06:05<towo^work>vbox nor vmware do support vga passthrough
06:08<that_one_guy_79812>towo^work: I don't know how to tell in lspci if it shows more than 1 dGPU. I know for a fact it does have 2 dGPU because I opened up the laptop to apply new thermal paste under the heat sinks and it has 2 MXM form factor Nvidia GTX 1080s. Also I am pretty sure the newest version of virtualbox/vmware support passthrough as I just helped a friend set up virtual machines on his windows computer 2 weeks ago.
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06:09<that_one_guy_79812>towo^work: I did not say specifically vga passthrough. The cards are newer so I imagine it might do something like hdmi passthrough for video. All I know is the option is there in the newest versions of vmware/virtualbox.
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06:11<towo^work>no, there is no such passthrough, even in the recent versions
06:12<towo^work>both tools are using a virtualized graphics card for their guests
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06:13<towo^work>and again, as long the dGPU has no connctor to any display out, you can't pssing it as separate gpu to any vm
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06:32<that_one_guy_79812>towo^work: I guess I need to do more research into the GPU situation. I mentioned earlier that I can see wifi networks, but I tried connecting to them and nothing happens. It won't connect to the network, so does that mean I need firmware/drivers afterall?
06:32<towo^work>95% of the wifi chipsets around need non-free firmware
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06:34<that_one_guy_79812>towo^work: Ok, so how do I get the non-free firmware for my wifi chipset? And would I need to do the same thing for my ethernet connection?
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06:39<towo^work>that_one_guy_79812, no one knows your hardware and my crystalball is vakant
06:39<towo^work>!non-free
06:39<dpkg>[non-free] a component which contains software that does not comply with the <DFSG>. To add non-free packages to your packages index, ask me about <non-free sources>. To see which non-free packages are installed ask me about <non-free list>. For the non-free tracking system, see http://nonfree.alioth.debian.org/
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06:44<that_one_guy_79812>I was just asking about where I might look for answers.
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06:50<teatime>Anyone using Debian 9 arm64 on a RPi3, or Debian 9 armel on a PiZero ?
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07:08<somiaj>teatime: there is a #debian-arm channel (or something like that) which may have people using debian on such hardware. Though iw asn't sure if the PiZero arm chip could support debian, I forget if it is arm v6/7 or whatever is needed for debian.
07:09<teatime>it doesn't have the correct FPU for armhf, but can run armel
07:09<teatime>wait sorry it doesn't have an fpu at all
07:09<teatime>RPi2 can run armel but not armhf
07:10<teatime>it just took me 15min to sort this all out heh
07:11<somiaj>yea, I recall some similar thing when I looked into it, and discovered the original RPi version 1 I have wouldn't work without raspbian patches
07:12<somiaj>(as in sorting out what hardware can run on what kernel with arm port is still evolving)
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07:23<blast007>teatime: note that there are two versions of the Raspberry Pi 2. The older one has a 32-bit SoC, while the newer one has the same 64-bit SoC as the Pi 3, but clocked lower.
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07:25<teatime>yeah
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07:25<lucifer>hi
07:26<lucifer>anyone here?
07:26<towo^work>no
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07:26<lucifer>you?
07:26<lucifer> ghost?
07:26<towo^work>what a pointless question in a channel with ~800 users
07:26<somiaj>!chat
07:26<dpkg>This is not a chat channel, this is a Debian user support channel. Unless you have a Debian support question, please chat elsewhere, like #debian-offtopic, or #moocows on irc.oftc.net or ##chat on irc.freenode.net.
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07:27<bremner>who knew exorcism was so easy.
07:28<jamesmc>The power of dpkg compels you
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07:42<turbayan>sir i cant run matasploit
07:43<turbayan>how to run msf on parrot os
07:43<towo^work>!parrot
07:43<dpkg>Parrot OS (https://www.parrotsec.org/) is a security and penetration testing distribution. It is based on Debian testing, but it is not Debian and is not supported in #debian. Seek help in #parrot on irc.frozenbox.org or try the mailing lists at http://lists.parrotsec.org/listinfo. Also ask me about <based on debian>.
07:43<towo^work>bye
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07:47<that_one_guy_79812>towo^work: how can I tell if my gpu has a frame buffer or not?
07:48<somiaj>that is really more a driver (module) issue, not a gpu issue.
07:48<somiaj>framebuffers are also kinda dated, most modern gpu drivers use 'kms' drivers, and the kms driver will emulate some framebuffer compadability.
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07:54<that_one_guy_79812>Well what I am trying to figure out now is if my optimus/switchblade gpu has a "individual frame buffer" so that if I wanted to I could use the iGPU and dGPU seperately or individually?
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08:03<that_one_guy_79812>thank you everybody for your time today :)
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08:13<matador71>hi
08:13<jcrain>pipedream: #885864
08:13<judd>Bug http://bugs.debian.org/885864 in evince (open, upstream): «evince: MIME type in evince.desktop»; severity: normal; opened: 2017-12-30; last modified: 2018-01-04.
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08:15<pipedream>thanks
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08:42<teatime>What is the current/default implementation/toolkit for IPSEC on Debian/Linux? I beleive I will be needing dual-stack (IPv4 beside IPv6 or whatever), if that makes any difference in the answer.
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08:48<fuckz>anyone here could give me an hint on GITLAB: I got an hard diskk with repositories and want to move them to a new server. I tried to simple copy the project.git directory but it didnt work. Anyone could help me ?
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09:57<wormaxslither>hi
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10:21<teatime>fuckz: it helps to be specific instead of "it didn't work".
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10:31<teatime>Am I correct in thinking I should just stick with kernel 4.9 for servers (cloud vm instances, actually), and probably should *not* install 4.14 from stretch-backports on those hosts ?
10:35<nex_necis>teatime: usually i don't use backports for servers, only vanilla stable repository
10:36<teatime>yar; just wanting to make sure there wasn't anything I wasn't thinking about
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10:44<babilen>teatime: What are your reasons for that decision?
10:45<babilen>I don't think the decision isn't quite as clear cut as you make it out to be
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10:50<raspi_benne>hi gus
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10:52<teatime>babilen: I don't really have any. I just don't know of anything specific (fixes or features) I need/want from the newer kernel
10:53<teatime>babilen: but I asked the question because, I am (very mildly) concerned their might be some I am not aware of
10:53<babilen>There are certainly arguments in favour of both approaches, but generally speaking I wouldn't say that using the default kernel is a bad decision
10:53<teatime>s/their/there/
10:53<babilen>But there might very well be situations in which it would be benficial to run a newer kernel and I don't see it as much of a problem to do that either
10:53<teatime>babilen: what arguments/factors/whatever might drive a decision to upgrade to the bpo version?
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10:53<teatime>yeah that is true enough
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10:54<teatime>guess I just needed to sanity check. thx much.
10:54<babilen>There are also implications in terms of security in that upstream might develop rather for newer kernels, while Debian's security team focusses on the kernels in currently supported stable and old*stable releases
10:54<raspi_benne>is there a channel for raspberry pi help???
10:55<babilen>dpkg: raspbian
10:55<dpkg>Raspbian is a distribution <based on Debian> made specifically for the <Raspberry Pi>. Raspbian is not Debian and it is not supported in #debian. Please use #raspbian on irc.freenode.net for support. http://www.raspbian.org/
10:55<babilen>raspi_benne: There's ^^ if you use raspbian
10:55<babilen>dpkg: raspberry
10:55<dpkg>The Raspberry Pi is an open hardware design based on a Broadcom system-on-a-chip, requiring <non-free> <firmware>. Debian's <armel> port works fine, but does not use the Pi's hardware floating point unit. Debian's <armhf> port targets a newer revision of the ARM chip than is in the Pi, so armhf will not work on it. http://wiki.debian.org/RaspberryPi http://www.raspberrypi.org/ #raspberrypi on irc.freenode.net.
10:56<babilen>teatime: It simply isn't that clear cut, but newer kernels do have advantages. I'd recommend to read up on their features and changes and think about implications for your workload
10:57<babilen>teatime: Backported kernels definitely don't get the same attention from the security team, which is ... I think the biggest problem with that approach
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12:06<ghost>hi guys i need your help installing my printer drivers on parrot security os
12:07<duncan>!parrot
12:07<dpkg>Parrot OS (https://www.parrotsec.org/) is a security and penetration testing distribution. It is based on Debian testing, but it is not Debian and is not supported in #debian. Seek help in #parrot on irc.frozenbox.org or try the mailing lists at http://lists.parrotsec.org/listinfo. Also ask me about <based on debian>.
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14:49<artur>How to make GTK applications in xfce4 more xfce-like?
14:49<istrive>where to get help with Mutt and GPG for debian stretch?
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14:50<istrive>I need to parse the passprase without user interactions, so my crontrab jobs can send email notifications!
14:51<istrive>if I enter the main passphrase manually it sends the email decrypting the mutt password successfully.. so my problems is the main passprase!
14:51<istrive>anybody knows this stuff here?
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14:53<grawity>why do your cronjobs use mutt
14:53<istrive>it uses scripts and they use mutt to send notifications of the status...
14:53<istrive>not mutt on crontab directly
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14:55<istrive>if i sign in, then it prompts for the passprease and and every time I open mutt it asks me for the passphrase to decrypt the credentials, but I need to automate this process so it can run in the backgroud without user interations!
14:56<grawity>configure gpg-agent to remember your passphrase forever
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15:02<jcrain>istrive: or remove the passphrase from your gpg key
15:03<jcrain>istrive: or don't sign the auto emails
15:03<istrive>whats the point of having the GPG if you remove the passwors?
15:04<jcrain>istrive: you've already removed security if you want to do it without any user interaction so what does the password matter
15:04<istrive>the how to to that is my problem, store the password forever...
15:04<tda>generally keys for servers and automated processes are not encrypted
15:04<istrive>I dont want to remove the security, but automate the procedure!
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15:06<jcrain>istrive: is mutt set up to auto sign your emails? it's the only reason i think mutt would ask for a passphrase to send an email.
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15:07<istrive>the password for the smtp is encrypted for mutt, and the gpg is requesting the password to decrypt the file!
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15:08<jcrain>istrive: none of that makes sense to me
15:09<EmleyMoor>I recently switched from "nouveau" to "modeswitch" for my Xorg graphics driver, but now I've discovered that, if I try to use fuse (the Spectrum emulator) in full screen, my monitor reports "OUT OF RANGE - 111.8 kHz / 75 Hz" - is this likely to be a modeswitch problem, that of fuse, or a combination of the two?
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15:09<istrive>my mutt conf file poinst to a gpg file where the credentials are stored, so in order to send emails, mutt must have the credentials file decrypted and to decrypt it gpg requeres the passprase
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15:09<jcrain>istrive: i think it would make more sense to use something like nullmailer to send auto emails instead of mutt
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15:10<istrive>mutt woks fine for the purpose, my problem is the automation for the passphase (not mutt)
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15:10<soren>What package do I need to download to get the command "mkinitcpio"?
15:10<istrive>so how to hangle GPG is the key
15:12<jcrain>istrive: you don't need a gpg key to send email unless you are signing. so don't sign it.
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15:13<grawity>I assumed istrive stores SMTP passwords gpg-encrypted as well
15:13<istrive>I'm not siging the email. the credentials are stored in a encryptef file as opposed to plaintext.
15:14<istrive><grawity> you are right!
15:14<blast007>so instead of just storing the SMTP password in plain text, you want to store the passphrase for the GPG key in plain text?
15:14<istrive>so what's my path to make it work?
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15:16<istrive>if I enter the passphrase manually the emails are sent flawlessly, but I need to cut the need to enter this dam gpg email all the time with mutt,
15:16<spriebe>hello i updated my jessie to stretch but now apt-get update fails with: W: An error occurred during the signature verification. The repository is not updated and the previous index files will be used. GPG error: http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian stretch-proposed-updates InRelease: The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY 8B48AD6246925553 NO_PUBKEY 7638D0442B90D010
15:17<spriebe>any ideas what's wrong? i also tried to import that key with gpg and apt-key but that does not solve it all
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15:17<grawity>istrive: then don't store the smtp password in gpg...
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15:18<istrive>great, very helpful! lol
15:19<istrive>anybody with a " better " suggestion?
15:20<jcrain>istrive: i think you want something impossible
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15:23<istrive>so you're telling me that sending emails from a system with an encrypted file for the smtp server settings is impossible in linux?
15:24<grawity>the only way to automatically decrypt that file, is to store the decryption password somewhere
15:24<blast007>and at that point, it's just as secure to store the SMTP password in plain text
15:25<grawity>just as insecure, I'd say
15:25<blast007>:)
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15:25<grawity>in fact even more so, since it means someone gaining access to your computer will even be able to send spoofed *pgp-signed* mails
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15:26<grawity>if you want the key to be unlocked *while you're logged in*, that's another matter
15:26<istrive>got it!
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15:27<grawity>and *that* should in theory work automatically, as long as you've got gpg-agent running, but you might want to adjust its "cache ttl" (i.e. how long it remembers the password)
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15:29<istrive>ill remvoe the gpg and chmod a file with root only access, that shoudl easy my pain!
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15:29<istrive>since the cronjobs run as root anyway, it should suffice! and the linux is behind a biz fiewall anyway.
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15:57<bw>how do i find the PID of jtag-server on my machine using Debian 9?
16:00<bw>ps and netstat didn't show
16:01<sney>pidof
16:02<jhutchins_wk>ps ax and top always show me the pid.
16:04<bw>then it is currently not running
16:04<bw>thx
16:05<bw>are there programs that use the same port as jtag-server?
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16:09<mpo>I don't know what jtag is, but 'ss -tnp' will show you the ports and respective processes
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16:15<duncan>JTAG is an acronym standing for the Joint Test Action Group. They created the standard commonly known as "JTAG".
16:16<awal1>Ok, talking about pids: how pid numbers are given/distributed?
16:16<teatime>They used to start from 1 (well, 2, depending on how you look at it) and increase sequentially as processes were spawned. they'd start to be re-used after the first run through.
16:17<teatime>but predictability in PIDs can be a source of vulnerability / help in exploiting
16:17<teatime>so now they're random
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16:18<awal1>well, I see 1,2,3,4, 6 no 5 , then from 66 it jumps to 109
16:18<awal1>so?
16:19<teatime>yes, I seem to have entirely made that up.
16:19<teatime>jeez. false-memories are disturbing.
16:21<awal1>:P
16:21<bw>pid 1 is init as far as i know
16:21<awal1>1 is sbin init yeah
16:21<noahm>teatime: maybe you're thinking of OpenBSD :)
16:21<awal1>systemd
16:22<noahm>but I do believe linux has an option to randomize pids, too
16:22<teatime>probably, which I'm probably partly remembering, maybe w/ a bit of tcp sequence numbers mixed in
16:22<awal1>bw, with stat /sbin/init you should get /sbin/init -> /lib/systemd/systemd if using susstemd
16:23<awal1>systemd
16:23<teatime>heh even as I was typing my initial mis-information, I was thinking, 'I can't actually think of a way off-hand that predictable PIDs are a problem.'
16:24<EmleyMoor>How do I "remove" unsuitable display modes reported my xrandr -q --verbose?
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16:26<awal1>unsuitable?
16:27<EmleyMoor>awal1: Yes... ones that cause my monitor to report "OUT OF RANGE"
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16:28<awal1>EmleyMoor, you mean xrandr reports sizes above your real screen size capabilities?
16:28<teatime>EmleyMoor: there's both an --rmmode and --delmode. they do different things.
16:28<EmleyMoor>awal1: It reports some unsuitable frequencies
16:28<EmleyMoor>teatime: Yes - the question is, what do they do and how do I achieve what I need
16:28<bw>duncan did you ever try working with it?
16:29<awal1>EmleyMoor, people may understand your "issue" if you make a paste
16:29<duncan>Sure, JTAG is ubiquitous.
16:29<awal1>understand better
16:29<teatime>EmleyMoor: --delmode sounds like the one you want
16:30<EmleyMoor>teatime: That needs two parameters: output and mode. I need to determine them
16:30<teatime>of course, that doesn't answer the 'Why do unusuable modes get into the list to begin with', but one common thing I know of is that monitors frequently lie (i.e., have bugs) to the host about what they support (this is the EDID data)
16:31<bw>duncan it is only used for programmable gate arrays, is it?
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16:31<teatime>EmleyMoor: the output will look like "LVDS1" or "HDMI-3" etc., and those are listed by `xrandr`. The mode will look like 800x600 or 1920x1080, and actually those are also listed by `xrandr` :)
16:31<EmleyMoor>http://paste.debian.net/1008590/ - Look at lines 109-111 for an exampleo
16:32<EmleyMoor>... of a duff mode
16:32<awal1>teatime, not sure if --delmode output name is what he needs. man says "Remove a mode from the set of valid modes for an output." note VALID MODES
16:33<teatime>awal1: I'll bet you a dollar?
16:34<awal1>teatime, right now I need like 60000 $ :P
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16:34<EmleyMoor>I tried xrandr --delmode DVI-I-1 0x5a and got X Error of failed request: BadAccess (attempt to access private resource denied)
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16:35<EmleyMoor>Ah, hold an
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16:35<EmleyMoor>on
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16:35<EmleyMoor>No, the same when I try 1024x768
16:37<duncan>bw: It's generic. It's a debug interface.
16:39<bw>for the machine that it is running on?
16:39<EmleyMoor>I clearly need to remove some rates, really
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16:41<teatime>EmleyMoor: what annoys you about them, anyway? does some configurator app / the keyboard hotkey make you cycle through the whole long list?
16:41<EmleyMoor>1024x768 at rate 60 works, but not at default rate.
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16:42<EmleyMoor>teatime: I have a program which switches mode when going full screen, and it's selecting one that causes my monitor to report "OUT OF RANGE"
16:44<bw>i meant: does jtag-server address jtag-compatible components on the local system?
16:45<bw>fpga-compatible*
16:46<teatime>EmleyMoor: I see.
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16:47<awal1>EmleyMoor, which program is that?
16:47<awal1>it may interests me :P
16:48<EmleyMoor>fuse (the Spectrum emulator), when compiled with SDL
16:48<awal1>ah, ok
16:50<awal1>not sure how I can limit fullscreen video mode (html5 or any video player) to a given maximized size of the app window where the video content is played
16:52<awal1>I mean if i put, example, a youtube video mode in fullscreen mode, I would like to limit the fullscreen size of the video to the size of firefox in maximized mode, prevent the video from occupying the whole screen
16:53<awal1>I have seen that in a website i dont remember exactly; fullscreen for its videos are limited to the size of the webbrowser
16:53<awal1>html5 format
16:54<bw>awal1 depends on the plugin i guess
16:54<EmleyMoor>Ah... what's system defined, it seems, can't be removed. I do however need a way to repreference/override the ones that my monitor won't take
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16:55<awal1>bw, not adobe flash plugin, but html5, which isn't a plugin :P
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17:03<istrive>GnuPG 2 --passphrase not working!
17:04<istrive>how to make the gpg to work with Mutt without user interaction to dectype password?
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17:16<EmleyMoor>How, with xrandr, can I mark some resolutions and rates identified by the system as "not to be used"?
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17:43<sig>teatime:
17:43<sig>you around?
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18:26<somiaj>EmleyMoor: what do you mean by not be used? What is picking/changing to resolutions you don't want?
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18:33<EmleyMoor>somiaj: fuse (the Spectrum emulator), compiled with SDL, when switching to full screen, is selecting a mode which is at a rate beyond what my monitor can handle
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18:43<somiaj>EmleyMoor: I'm surprised, did you check the xorg.0.log to see how it is reading the edid of your monintor?
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18:43<somiaj>it should be getting the info from the monintor. I'm unsure how to remove modelines from xrandr. I do know you can create a custom EDID or manaully configure every mode line in by hand like you use to back in the old days of X11
18:44<somiaj>EmleyMoor: as i'm I'm surprised that xrandr which picks its ModeLines up from the edid of the monintor is getting modelines that the monitor doens't support.
18:44<somiaj>so I would double check that it is actually choosing a modeline in the list, and not creating its own and just ignoring the list.
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19:51<Ionic_>uhoh...
19:51<Ionic_>how do I find out why a package was removed from a series?
19:51-!-Haudegen [~quassel@178.115.237.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:53<Ionic_>in ftp-master's removal list, of course...
19:53<somiaj>Ionic_: the debian package tracker can help too
19:53<somiaj>any paticular package you are intreted in?
19:54<Ionic_>yes, python{,3}-gpgme/src:pygpgme
19:54<Ionic_>hm have to look up the removals archive, must have been removed after jan 1 2018
19:55<Ionic_>there it is: "RoQA; obsolete, abandoned upstream"
19:55<Ionic_>phew... that's... hmm
19:56<Ionic_>ah
19:56<Ionic_>but maybe python{,3}-gpg works as a drop-in replacement
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19:57<Ionic_>yep, should do
19:57<Ionic_>good enough, sorry for the noise!
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20:09<Ionic_>*sigh* not really a drop-in replacement, that's unfortunate
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21:46<themill>Ionic_: btw you can ask judd about removal reasons too -- it can normally figure them out for you
21:46<themill>,bug rm pygpgme
21:46<judd>Bug http://bugs.debian.org/876844 in ftp.debian.org (closed): «RM: pygpgme -- RoQA; obsolete, abandoned upstream»; severity: normal; opened: 2017-09-26; last modified: 2017-11-07.
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21:52<sigimac>ok, installed a fresh Debian 9 and I'm using the b43-pci-bride driver for my wifi in this iMac. it isn't loading and starting on boot. I'm having to manuall 'modprobe b43' after I'm up and running. I know theres a way to get it to load on startup?
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21:55<dvs>sigimac, add b43 to the /etc/modules file
21:55<sigimac>dvs, ahh
21:55<sigimac>thank you
21:55<dvs>np
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21:55<sigimac>even got iSight working
21:55<sigimac>:)
21:57<sigimac>dvs, dumb question but should just be: b43 <--- as the module?
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21:59<teatime>sigimac: `apt-file search b43.ko` … yup, looks like it.
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22:00<sigimac>alright brb
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22:03<sigimac>teatime: no luck on that
22:04<sigimac>b43-pci-bridge <--- modprobe b43 brings this wifi up
22:04<sigimac>but added: 'b43' to /etc/modules and it isn't starting.
22:04<teatime>I think you misinterpreted me.
22:04<sigimac>oh?
22:05<teatime>or I you, perhaps.
22:05<teatime>not important, I don't thik.
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22:06<sigimac>should start correct?
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22:08<teatime>I'm not sure this is relevant, but can't remember.. you might try `sudo update-initramfs -u` after editing /etc/modules
22:09<sig>I'll give that a shot too, reading the debian mailing lists....
22:09<teatime>and, you have to reboot :) modules listed in /etc/modules should be modprobe'd at boot time, yeah
22:09<sigimac>yeah I rebooted but obviously it didn't
22:10<sigimac>I'll try that command
22:10<teatime>sig: oh btw, you asked for me earlier. I'm here now :) if it's off-topic pls use privmsg or #debian-offtopic
22:10<teatime>ll
22:10<teatime>*kk
22:10<teatime>after booting, preferably before manually modprobe'ing it, view / upload the `dmesg` output
22:11<teatime>1) to see if it tries or not, and 2) if it does, if it says why it fails at that time.
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22:12<sigimac>teatime: ahhh
22:13<sigimac>just ran: update-initramfs -u' and looked in /etc/modules-load.d/modules.conf and it is there now
22:14<sigimac>gotta wait for a scp file to finish uploading on this and I'll reboot and see if it worked
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22:17<ksyd>Can anyone please tell me how do I start lightdm in minimal debian installation. What should I run after apt install lightdm? Is dpkg-reconfigure lightdm the right command?
22:17<ksyd>Or will it just start automatically after reboot?
22:18<teatime>that command will work for that purpose, yup
22:18<teatime>will present a list of installed DM's for you to choose one of to be the default
22:18<ksyd>teatime: thank you very much :)
22:18<teatime>was your system already running a (non-lightdm) graphical login at boot? if not, if it was a text-only system, you'll also want to make sure that you've told system to make graphics-mode the default
22:20<ksyd>teatime: how do I do that? exec openbox-session?
22:20<teatime>ksyd: that'd be `systemctl get-default` to see what it is, `systemctl set-default graphical.target` to set it to start the GUI on boot
22:20<sigimac>teatime: one more quick question: why would after apt update & apt-upgrade...
22:20<duncan>what would what?
22:20<sigimac>The following packages have been kept back:
22:20<sigimac> linux-image-amd64
22:21<duncan>You can manually upgrade that
22:21<duncan>e.g. "sudo apt-get upgrade linux-image-amd64"
22:21<sigimac>kk
22:21<duncan>You should consider installing unattended-upgrades
22:21<sigimac>I'll do that
22:22<teatime>yar, I'm not sure how-come, but you want to manually install/upgrade that, so that you will continue to get updated kernels as they're released
22:22<teatime>(↑ I am referring to linux-image-amd64)
22:22<wadadli>most package managers remove existing <package> and then install new <package> with the upgrade operation sigimac
22:22<wadadli>update however the old <package> isn't removed, first.
22:22<teatime>wadadli: I don't think that applies here, though.
22:23<duncan>Nope, this doesn't apply here.
22:23<teatime>'If the dependencies have changed on one of the packages you have installed so that a new package must be installed to perform the upgrade then that will be listed as "kept-back".'
22:23<duncan>Old kernels are *not* removed.
22:23<sigimac>teatime: yeah odd thing is, unattended-upgrades is installed already
22:24<teatime>sigimac: if you had said 'apt update && apt full-upgrade`, it would have worked.
22:24<teatime>sigimac: I did not suggest unattended-upgrades.
22:24<duncan>They *should not* be removed because you need to have an older kernel to boot in case something goes wrong.
22:24<ksyd>teatime: thank you. it seems it only is written for GDM in debian wiki, because I couldn't find it Lightdm wiki page.
22:24<wadadli>of course not, for obvious reasons duclicsic
22:24<wadadli>duncan: *
22:24<sigimac>teatime: it must have been automatically selected during install
22:25<teatime>ksyd: you can dpkg-reconfigure any of the various DMs you may have installed (gdm, kdm, xdm, nodm, lightdm, sddm, etc.), and it will give you the same prompt/list.
22:25<teatime>fyi, ffr.
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22:25<teatime>sigimac: I don't use it so I couldn't tell you how it works. There's probably a switch to flip somewhere to make it actually be enabled.
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22:26<sigimac>alright gonna reboot and see if this module loads
22:26<sigimac>brb
22:26<duncan>https://wiki.debian.org/UnattendedUpgrades#Unattended_Upgrades
22:26<sigimac>I'll read that duncan
22:26<sigimac>brb
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22:27<teatime>duncan: old kernels *are* automatically removed once you have too many of them... I want to say it's setup to keep 3?
22:27<teatime>but via a completely different mechanism :)
22:27<ksyd>teatime: that's nice. thx :)
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22:27<wadadli>usually it is your package manager that has a directive to keep a certain amount of specified packages teatime
22:28<teatime>wadadli: there's only one package manager for Debian, and we're most interested in how *it* works here.
22:28<wadadli>most naturally teatime
22:28<teatime>I think it is in apt, though. can't remember.
22:29<wadadli>perhaps have a look at the man pages for your package manager's config file
22:29<duncan>teatime: Sure, but the situation discussed here specifically refers to the previous kernel.
22:29<duncan>(Perhaps I should have clarified?)
22:32<wadadli>running apt-get update kernel may override the current kernel
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22:32<duncan>That's not a valid command.
22:32<sigimac>teatime: duncan is the latest: 4.9.65-3+deb9u2
22:32<sigimac>?
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22:32<duncan>apt-get update merely updates your local cache of package versions.
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22:33<wadadli>right, kernels should be *installed* never *updated* :-)
22:33<duncan>No package should ever be "updated".
22:33<duncan>Packages are installed, removed, or upgraded.
22:34<teatime>wadadli: it doesn't, we know how it works.
22:34<wadadli>generally the operations that most package managers strive to implement are install, remove, update, upgrade
22:34<teatime>wadadli: you're more used to rpm, I see, and beleive apt must work similarly
22:34<wadadli>there is a difference between updating and installing
22:35<teatime>wadadli: linux-image-amd64 is a meta-package (meaning it has no contents, only dependencies) that is updated with each kernel release to depend on the newest amd64 kernel.
22:35<teatime>wadadli: by having it installed, you thus obtain kernel updates.
22:35<duncan>There is a difference between updating and installing. There's also a difference between updating and upgrading.
22:35<teatime>or you can not install that, and instead manually install the specific kernel you want, and it will not be later messed w/ by an 'apt-get upgrade'
22:36<duncan>You said "apt-get update kernel may override the current kernel" - this is not true. This is never a situation that is legal.
22:36<teatime>wadadli: apt does not implement the kind of special-case "upgrade actually means install if the package is a kernel" logic that RPM does
22:37<teatime>wadadli: instead, currently in Debian the kernel packages have most of their version in the actual package name, like e.g. linux-image-4.9.0-3-amd64
22:37<teatime>wadadli: and so multiple of them can be installed side-by-side.
22:37<wadadli>oh ok.
22:38<duncan>If you run "apt-get update <package>", apt will complain that "E: The update command takes no arguments".
22:38<teatime>wadadli: what actually happens for cleaning up old kernels, does not happen during the installation step/phase, as I said it's handled by a completely different mechanism: the apt auto-remove thingy
22:38<teatime>whereby apt can tell when a previously-automatically-installed package is no longer depended upon by any installed packages, and so can be safely removed.
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22:39<teatime>wadadli: in debian it's crucial and basic to understand the difference between 'apt update' and 'apt upgrade'. they are not similar. it is an unfortunate/confusing choice of names, I think. but what duncan is saying is true for debian.
22:39<teatime>last I checked in RPM-land, update and upgrade were synonyms.
22:40<duncan>Yeah, on Fedora one would just do "dnf update" for all operations, which makes good sense.
22:40<duncan>[all update/upgrade operations.]
22:40<teatime>and iirc 'dnf upgrade' is equivalent
22:41<teatime>oh, no, actually nm I don't recall correctly :)
22:41<teatime>was it, one operates on individual packages, one on all installed packages?
22:41*teatime wanders off.
22:42<awal1>teatime,set up to keep 2 kernels; you can check which is kept, apart current, via /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/01autoremove-kernels if my memo is good
22:43<awal1>make apt to not remove previous kernel when running autoremove
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22:44<awal1>something similar to prevent aptitude purge ~o from deleting prev. kernel would be nice too
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---Logclosed Fri Feb 02 22:44:28 2018
---Logopened Fri Feb 02 23:12:56 2018
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23:13<awal1>you are talking about various stuff and mixing them
23:13<teatime>no, I am not.
23:13<awal1>but anyway, teatime, next time we talk again about all that
23:13<awal1>bed time here :P
23:13<teatime>that config you pointed out, prevents aptitude from removing kernels, in the same way it prevents 'apt autoremove' from doing so, afaik.
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23:16<awal1>not incorrect what you say; I was just mentioning that the aptitude ~o feature, right , an improvment of deborphan features, doesn't consider that kernel removal config for known reasons,
23:17<awal1>my idea is I would like make the purge obsolete feature also consider that somehow
23:17<awal1>that is all
23:17<awal1>anyway, i am asleep, cant think so much
23:18<awal1>gnight
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23:19<sigimac>teatime: all is good!
23:19<sigimac>isight.fw and b43 all start at boot!
23:19<sigimac>:)
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23:22<that_one_guy_79812>Is it possible to use KVM by itself without QEMU? Also why would a person want to do that?
23:22<duncan>that_one_guy_79812: Yes, see libvirt.
23:22<duncan>(although.. that may install qemu too for certain routines)
23:23<duncan>There are hypevisors that are in-house at large hosting companies (e.g. Google, Amazon) that do not use Qemu.
23:24<duncan>Qemu is quite fat and is unnecessary for certain applications.
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23:25<that_one_guy_79812>So Qemu is general purpose (fat)? And what is libvirt?
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23:26<that_one_guy_79812>duncan:
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23:28<wadadli>quemu can make use of kvm acceleration
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23:35<teatime>that_one_guy_79812: you can use qemu alone to do complete in-software emulation, which is naturally slow, but works even w/o hardware extensions / across very different processor architectures.
23:35<sigimac>there's this game installed called lagno in my games and I can't find the package to remove it... lol
23:36<teatime>that_one_guy_79812: KVM uses the hardware virtualization support to do near-native virtual machines, instead. it also happens to use or include some part of qemu or whatever for some purpose, but it isn't relevant.
23:37<teatime>that_one_guy_79812: libvirt is a middleware basically for abstracting the details of several hypervisors (of which KVM is one), several storage pool systems, etc., and present a unified interface for managing them all the same way / with the same high-level tools.
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23:37<teatime>sigimac: you want something like: dpkg -S `which lagno`
23:37<sigimac>heh
23:38<teatime>or, in general, dpkg -S /full/path/to/some/file
23:38<sigimac>can't even find the damn thing in synaptic
23:39<teatime>lol
23:39<that_one_guy_79812>teatime: can you explain libvirt to me again?
23:39<teatime>I think your problem is that it's Iagno, not lagno. ;)
23:40<sigimac>hah
23:40<sigimac>let me see!
23:40<sigimac>nope
23:40<sigimac>lol
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23:40<sigimac>yup
23:40<sigimac>haha
23:41<teatime>that_one_guy_79812: so, libvirt, is the abstraction layer, that allows a user-facing tool/system such as virt-manager (the GUI Virtual Machine Manager), to, among other nice things, be able to manage both KVM and Xen -based virtual machines
23:41<teatime>it's not a virtualization technology itself
23:41<teatime>I mean, it's not a hypervisor
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23:43<that_one_guy_79812>teatime: So you can use more than one hypervisor at the same time? Why would a person want to do that? Also does it matter if the hypervisor is type 1 or 2 at all?
23:44<teatime>that_one_guy_79812: not on one machine, but another thing libvirt enables is administering many hypervisors at once, on separate hosts. and stuff like their networking configs. and storage pools/volumes.
23:45<teatime>you might have a big cluster of hypervisor hosts, as an "internal compute cloud"
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23:45<teatime>so, libvirt can help you with that regardless of whether you use KVM, or Xen, or VirtualBox, or whatever (*I don't know right off which ones it supports)
23:46<teatime>or indeed even if you're using them all for different things, for whatever reason
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23:46<that_one_guy_79812>teatime: is it possible to use more than 1 hypervisor at the same time on only one host? Also what are mailing lists and how do you use them?
23:50<teatime>what are mailing lists?
23:50<teatime>!mailing lists
23:50<dpkg>Mailing lists allow large numbers of people to share knowledge and experiences, these communications are also persistent. See http://www.debian.org/MailingLists/ . mbox archives are not provided via the web archive due to Listmaster team policy (Debian bug #161440), see <gmane>. For lists.debian.org questions, join #debian-lists on irc.oftc.net or e-mail listmaster@lists.debian.org. See also <list spam> and <subscribed>.
23:51<that_one_guy_79812>Well I have noticed in that in a lot of channels they say if you have a question or if noone is answering you then you should send your question to a "mailing list" but I don't know what they are or how to use them?
23:51<that_one_guy_79812>teatime:
23:52<teatime>it's pretty much what it sounds like. it's email.
23:52<teatime>google 'debian mailing list archives' and check them out, should be pretty obvious pretty quick what's going on
23:53<teatime>they're all archived so other people can google their problems and find the solution that the mailing list folks came up with
23:53<teatime>or you can look through the archives manually.
23:56<that_one_guy_79812>teatime: what if I can find an answer, how do I ask a question? Do I legit go through email or is there an IRC BOT or something in most of these setups of mailing lists?
23:56<teatime>I don't understand the question, sorry.
23:57<that_one_guy_79812>teatime: what if I can't*** (typo)
23:57<teatime>Yeah, you send an email to like mailing-list-name@whatever.organization.com
23:57<teatime>usually you have to subscribe to the list first
23:58<teatime>and it gets sent to all the subscribers. and replies are threaded.
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---Logclosed Sat Feb 03 00:00:13 2018