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#debian IRC Logs for 2018-02-17

---Logopened Sat Feb 17 00:00:10 2018
00:02-!-hele_ [~hele@88-115-23-46.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #debian
00:02-!-hele_ is "hele" on #debian-next #debian-kde #debian
00:04-!-dboehmer__ [~quassel@p5DD9D8E6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #debian
00:04-!-dboehmer__ is "Daniel B\xF6hmer,,," on #debian
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00:08-!-ach [~spooky@ipb218f3cc.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined #debian
00:08-!-ach is "spooky" on #debian
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00:16-!-martinf99 [~teapot@p200300DE0BD455013513F885B65D84CD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Goodbye]
00:21-!-Alam_Squeeze [alam@rigginstereo.lawarias.srb2.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:22-!-AvatarA [~x@00026a14.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
00:22-!-AvatarA is "x" on #linode #debian-next #debian
00:24-!-hele_ [~hele@88-115-23-46.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
00:26-!-Alam_Squeeze [alam@rigginstereo.lawarias.srb2.org] has joined #debian
00:26-!-Alam_Squeeze is "Alam Arias" on #debian-next #debian #bitlbee #debian-games #linux #multiarch #debian-ipv6 #mingw-w64 #gc-linux
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00:37-!-SD [dalek@207.187.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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00:37-!-SuperDale is "dale" on #debian
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00:51-!-pmhahn_ [~phahn@p5B21E4E8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #debian
00:51-!-pmhahn_ is "Philipp Hahn" on #debian
00:58-!-isagar [~isaagar@103.44.137.252] has joined #debian
00:58-!-isagar is "I Sagar" on #debian-desktop #debian-browserify #debian-til #debian-ruby #debian-gnukhata #libindic #debian-boot #debian-azure #debian-live #debian #debian-mobile #debian-diaspora #hamara #debian-in
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01:00-!-tacocat is "James Lu" on #packaging #oftc #linode #debian-next #debian-live #debian-kde #debian-gnome #debian-devel-changes #debian-desktop #debian-derivatives #debian-ctte #debian-cinnamon #debian-ayatana #debian
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01:01-!-tacobat is "James Lu" on #packaging #linode #debian-next #debian-ctte #debian
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01:07-!-ach is "spooky" on #debian
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01:09-!-saki [~Thunderbi@38.132.115.151] has joined #debian
01:09-!-saki is "saki" on #Qubes_OS #redditprivacy #privacytools.io #ovirt #virt #linode #debian #tor-offtopic #cryptoparty #privacytech #whonix #tor-project @##tor-project #moocows #oftc #tor #qemu
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01:18-!-ntox is "Anthony" on #ovirt #debian
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01:19-!-gabriel1 is "Gab" on #ubuntu #tor #debian-it #debian
01:20-!-ach [~spooky@ipb218f3a5.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined #debian
01:20-!-ach is "spooky" on #debian
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01:37-!-wavekidsjp is "wavekidsjp" on #debian
01:40-!-ntox [~ntox@mobile-166-171-184-168.mycingular.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
01:49-!-ntox is "Anthony" on #ovirt #linode
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02:00-!-KindOne_ [kindone@h185.79.155.207.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #debian
02:00-!-KindOne_ is "..." on #suckless #qemu #php #ovirt #osm #oftc #linuxfs #libevent #https-everywhere #globaleaks #gentoo #gcc #g7 #freenode #debian-next #debian #ceph #bcache #awesome
02:00-!-ach [~spooky@ipb218f365.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined #debian
02:00-!-ach is "spooky" on #debian
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02:04-!-aviau is "Alexandre Viau" on #debian #debian-mips #debian-quebec #debian-js #debconf16-menzies-10 @#duckish #reproducible-builds
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02:13-!-chiyosaki [~Thunderbi@38.132.115.151] has joined #debian
02:13-!-chiyosaki is "saki" on #Qubes_OS #redditprivacy #privacytools.io #ovirt #virt #linode #debian #tor-offtopic #cryptoparty #privacytech #whonix #tor-project ##tor-project #moocows #oftc #tor #qemu
02:14-!-kingsley [~kingsley@97.113.165.255] has joined #debian
02:14-!-kingsley is "Kingsley G. Morse Jr." on #debian.ch #blug #debian
02:15-!-sapphire [~sapphire@2a01:cb10:81c1:4300:ba27:ebff:fef1:69fe] has joined #debian
02:15-!-sapphire is "realname" on #debian
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02:15-!-chiyosaki is now known as saki
02:16<sapphire>Hello
02:16<annadane>hi sapphire
02:16-!-aviau [~aviau@modemcable101.74-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
02:16-!-aviau [~aviau@modemcable101.74-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #debian
02:16-!-aviau is "Alexandre Viau" on #debian #debian-mips #debian-quebec #debian-js #debconf16-menzies-10 @#duckish #reproducible-builds
02:17<sapphire>How are you ?
02:17<annadane>fine
02:17<sapphire>What are u doing ?
02:18<annadane>do you have a debian question? general chat is #debian-offtopic
02:18<sapphire>umm yes
02:18<sapphire>i cant install cgminer on raspberry pi 3
02:18<sapphire>i m on kali
02:18<annadane>!kali
02:18<dpkg>Kali Linux (http://www.kali.org/) is a security and penetration testing distribution from the creators of <backtrack>. It is based on Debian, but it is not Debian and is not supported in #debian. Seek help in #kali-linux on chat.freenode.net or http://forums.kali.org/ . Also ask me about <based on debian>, and read http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html
02:18-!-pdo_fn14 [~Guess@36.84.226.17] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
02:19<sapphire>ok
02:19<sapphire>i m changing chanel
02:19-!-hwgasdfasdf [~hwgasdfas@74.39.212.60] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
02:19<sapphire>but there is no one in kali-linux chat
02:19<sapphire>x(
02:20<sapphire>there is french chanels ,
02:20<annadane>perhaps try ##linux on freenode
02:20<annadane>or a kali support forum
02:20<sapphire>ok thx
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02:34-!-iderik [~idk@000262ff.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
02:34-!-iderik is "idk" on #suckless #qtile #debian-games #gcc #awesome #debian
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02:41-!-b17 is "b17" on #debian
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02:43-!-pamaury is "Amaury Pouly" on #oftc #debian-kde #debian #debian-next
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02:48-!-gijsbert is "gijsbert luuk" on #debian
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02:49-!-larjona is "Laura Arjona Reina" on #debian-til #debconf17-buzz #debian-es #debconf17-woody #debian-desktop #debian #debian-dpp #debian-outreach #debian-lxqt #debconf-cambridge #debconf-hamburg #debian-next #debian-lts #debconf18-taiwan #debian-i18n #debian-welcome #backchannel #debconf17-potato #debconf17-rex #debian-debsources #debian-publicity #debconf17-bo #debian-boot #debian-localgroups #debian-lists #debian-devel-es #debian-live #debian-blends @#debian-l10n-spanish #dpp
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03:18-!-cootcraig is "Craig Anderson" on #debian
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03:25<aidalgol>When did dpkg start responding to unknown keywords with "are you smoking crack?.[NICK]"?
03:26-!-nowhere_man [~pierre@00012946.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
03:26-!-nowhere_man is "Pierre Thierry" on #concatenative #emacs #git #erights #lisp #debian-kde #debian
03:27<ullbeking>i have an application here for which nfs seems like it might be the perfect solution (in theory)
03:27<ullbeking>that is: multiple clients accessing a single shared database
03:28-!-anonymous_ [~anonymous@201.249.99.111] has joined #debian
03:28-!-anonymous_ is "anonymous" on #debian
03:28<ullbeking>for some reason, i've got it stuck in my head that nfs is the big bad bogeyman of distributed file sharing
03:28<ullbeking>but i have to admit i don't know aht
03:28<ullbeking>why*
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03:29-!-debalance is "Philipp Huebner" on #debian #debian-kde #debian-devel-changes
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03:41-!-Bacchus is "alliantdevil" on #debian
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03:48<pnbo>I keep getting '403 Forbidden' on wiki.debian.org for over a year now. I have to use Tor instead to access the wiki. Who do I contact to fix this 403 error?
03:49-!-inne [~Thunderbi@x55b41ecd.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #debian
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03:55-!-the_other is "purple" on #debian
03:55<b17>pnbo: The wiki has it's own a bug page, https://bugs.debian.org/wiki.debian.org
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04:01-!-Oebele is "Oebele" on #debian
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04:03-!-sauron is "Mike B" on #debian #debian-zfs
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04:14-!-jipege1 is "zaza,,," on #debian #debian-l10n-fr #debian-publicity #debian-i18n
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04:29-!-Oebele_ is "Oebele" on #debian-next #debian
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04:29-!-Volley is "Wolfgang Scheicher" on #virt #debian-live #debian-kde #debian-next #debian
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04:33-!-ruipb is "RuiBranco" on #debian-publicity #debian-next @#debian-l10n-pt #debian-l10n-br #debian-kde #debian-i18n #debconf-subs #debian
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04:34-!-saki is "saki" on #Qubes_OS #redditprivacy #privacytools.io #ovirt #virt #linode #debian #tor-offtopic #cryptoparty #privacytech #whonix #tor-project @##tor-project #moocows #oftc #tor #qemu
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04:37-!-smirnov is "smirnov" on #debian
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04:38-!-andre is "andre" on #debian #smuxi
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04:45-!-hosiet is "realname" on #debian-publicity #debian-next #debian-zh #debian
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04:57<pnbo>b17: looks like my issue is similar to https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=885433
04:57<judd>Bug http://bugs.debian.org/885433 in wiki.debian.org (open): «wiki.debian.org: Access to wiki.debian.org is blocked with 403 Forbidden»; severity: normal; opened: 2017-12-27; last modified: 2017-12-27.
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04:58<pnbo>no progress on that bug though
04:58<pnbo>is there any other means of contacting someone who can do something about it?
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05:02<hosiet>Take a look at https://lists.debian.org/debian-www, there are tons of same requests to unban the account
05:04<hosiet>Directly contact the team would be viable
05:04<hosiet>Or the best solution is to use a different IP address
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05:16<pnbo>hosiet: thank you for the link. I am not gonna switch my ISP just to access one website...
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05:19<b17>it looks like an interesting problem, a whole range of IPs have been blocked because of repeated spam?
05:21<hosiet>why not? Wikipedia is doing the same thing (lol
05:21<pnbo>hosiet: wikipedia does not block you from viewing it if your IP is blocked - only editiong
05:21<pnbo>*editing
05:21<auto-apt>debian seems happy to block folks
05:22<b17>I hate spam, but I have mixed feelings about blocking like this. A certain amount of chaos is fine with me, but i guess it ticked off the wrong people.
05:22<hosiet>In fact the best plan is that someone jumps in and help debian wiki team find a better solution
05:23<pnbo>the best plan is if some company buys debian and then applies standard industry practices regarding spam
05:25<pnbo>any idea how much debian would cost?
05:26<jack>use a proxy or something
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05:26<jack>is all of tor already blocked?
05:26<b17>I think it's a limitation in the wiki software that they block all access instead of just account creation.
05:27<pnbo>surprisingly, tor is not blocked on the wiki
05:27<pnbo>that's how I get around the block - use Tor Browser
05:27<pnbo>which is really weird...
05:27<work>what's blocked? what's happening?
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05:31<pnbo>freenode was bought last year, and as an estimate debian roughly has same number of users. So perhaps debian could be bought out?
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05:32<b17>buying debina would only work if it could make money for the buyer.
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05:34<work>i'm trying to "sudo ./myscript" and it says myscript doesn't exist. could this be a result of encrypting my home directory and sudo not being allowed to read it?
05:34<pnbo>lots of companies use debian but are disatissfied with many decisions that debian makes, so it would make sense for them to buy it
05:35<b17>nah people won't pay for what they get now for free
05:36<auto-apt>why pay at all ? money is an illusion !
05:36<auto-apt>only stupid people buy into "buying"
05:37<auto-apt>capitalism must die.
05:37<work>since debian is open source, what purpose would buying it achieve? companies could simply employ some people to work with the debian source
05:37<auto-apt>capitalism must die a horrible death.
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05:37<work>i'm confused about what is being discussed here exactly
05:38<auto-apt>we discuss how capitalism must die a horrible death.
05:38<auto-apt>and debian could help it
05:39<auto-apt>and debian could help make capitalism disappear into a Gulag
05:40<hosiet>Well that's a little bit offtopic
05:40<auto-apt>when signing up to debian, you are not being forced to subscribe to goddamned capitalism.
05:41<work>i'm not even sure what the topic is supposed to be here hosiet
05:41<work>i wish i knew
05:41<hosiet>Debian's brand is held by SPI, a 501(c)3 non-profit organization and won't be bought by anyone
05:42<auto-apt>non-profit ? meaning "debian is anti-capitalist"
05:42<auto-apt>I am anti-capitalist.
05:43<pnbo>hosiet: everything and everyone has a price. Maybe SPI could be bought by some company?
05:43<auto-apt>capitalism must die a horrible death.
05:43<pnbo>auto-apt: a bit off-topic, but capitalism has died a long time ago, if it ever even existed at all.
05:43<work>pnbo: but why would somone want to buy debian, how would it make them more money in the long term
05:44<piper>!ot
05:44<dpkg>#debian is primarily a support channel for Debian users. Please keep the discussions in #debian on-topic and take longer discussions and non-support questions to #debian-offtopic. Imagine the chaos if each of the hundreds of people in the channel felt the need to wander off topic for a few minutes every day.
05:44<auto-apt>pnbo: point well made there
05:45<work>i tried asking for support a few minutes but ya'll are talking about capitilism and buying debian
05:45<pnbo>work: is myscript executable?
05:45<pnbo>do a chmod +x on it
05:45<auto-apt>don't ever buy anything. the seller is your enemy.
05:46<work>pnbo: ayyy it works now
05:46<work>thanks buddy
05:46<pnbo>auto-apt: and if your name is Elisabeth Fritzl, then the cellar is your enemy. This is really offtopic
05:46<auto-apt>cool , and stay anti-capitalist like myself
05:47<auto-apt>Mr Fitzl is innocent until proven guilty
05:47<work>i am 90% sure auto-apt is teasing
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05:48<auto-apt>quite a devilish trick to equate cellars with the scourge of capitalism
05:48<piper>auto-apt: take it to another channel
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05:48<auto-apt>you go there first
05:50<auto-apt>many people fear the cellar - but we all must fight capitalism to death.
05:54<auto-apt>debian should have a more pronounced anti-capitalist stance.
05:56<piper>!ops auto-apt spamming channels
05:56<dpkg>Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, abrotman, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen, SynrG, jm_, somiaj, jelly, petn-randall: piper complains about a problem (see above)
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06:05<auto-apt>!ops piper spamming channels
06:05<dpkg>Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, abrotman, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen, SynrG, jm_, somiaj, jelly, petn-randall: auto-apt complains about a problem (see above)
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06:14<auto-apt>debian should have a more pronounced anti-capitalist stance.
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06:21<babilen>*sigh*
06:22<babilen>piper: ta
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06:46<piper>babilen: after 3 channels that I know of, I think he got bored and left ;)
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07:48<No>hi
07:48<Popcorn>geia!
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07:56<di0x>hi!
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07:57<wonderwhy>hi, how can i compile a kernel into a .deb? make-kpkg seems to be gone
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08:05<supaman>!make-kpkg
08:05<dpkg>make-kpkg is no longer the recommended method for building kernel packages. See <kernel handbook> for current instructions. It can be used to make a debian package for a custom kernel. See man make-kpkg, <kp mantra>. NOTE it does not automatically create header packages, needed for module-assistant and dkms.
08:05<supaman>!kernel handbook
08:05<dpkg>The Debian Linux Kernel Handbook http://kernel-handbook.alioth.debian.org/ - packaged as debian-kernel-handbook since Debian 7 "Wheezy" - serves as a single access point to all kernel-related documentation. See chapter 4.2 to rebuild official Debian kernel packages, see chapter 4.5 to build a custom kernel from Debian kernel source.
08:10<wonderwhy>thanks!
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10:20<schoggi>hello! how can i put ip's of the websites instead of letters in 'sources.list'?
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10:29<Moises>Marian any specific reason to do this?
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10:35<schoggi>the reason is there, otherwise i would not want to do it. so i hope someone can help me out with this! i used a search engine already of course, but i did not found something close ...
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10:38<schoggi>by the way, its about 'security.debian.org'
10:40<schoggi>i want to use the ip address instead of the letters in 'sources.list' and apt with it
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10:47<xavim>exit
10:48<grove>schoggi: That's a bad idea. security.debian.org resolves to several ips, for redundancy. You'll give up on that by putting the ips in sources.list, but there's nothing stopping you from resolving the host names and doing it
10:50<blast007>that's also assuming the webserver configurations don't require the host to be specified
10:51<jcrain>you could probably put the address in your hosts file. but yes a website is probably going to require the hostname to be able to know what website you are asking for.
10:51<blast007>I get a different page when I go to the IP directly versus going to security.debian.org, for instance
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10:58<schoggi>hmm ...!
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11:02<fxrc>hello
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11:02<fxrc>came here because I need help on stretch, does anybody has 10 minutes?
11:03<schoggi>dpkg: can i ask a question?
11:03<dpkg>if you have a question, don't ask if you can ask it.. just ask it.. :) if somebody knows, they'll answer :)
11:03<fxrc>long to write
11:03<fxrc>anyway
11:04<fxrc>I's about a week I try to install nvidia-drivers the 'debian-way'
11:04<schoggi>and with the 'debian-way' you mean ... ?
11:04<fxrc>I have a gtx 1070ti and it needs the 390 version of the drivers
11:04<fxrc>I formely installed the drivers from nvidia .run scripts, this is what I call non debian
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11:05<fxrc>as it can break some dependencies
11:05<fxrc>and it's what it happend
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11:06<Volley>uhm ... the 1070 should be supported by earlier drivers too ... like those from backports ( 384 )
11:06<fxrc>so I've tried to build a package with svn, following the instructions here: https://wiki.debian.org/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers#Building_newer_releases_from_SVN
11:06<fxrc>yes I think 384 does support it
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11:07<fxrc>I've tried to install 390 anyway, as it is the last release
11:08<Volley>fxrc: i recommend you go to https://backports.debian.org/ , read instructions how to add stretch-backports and try to install nvidia drivers from that ... for starters
11:08<Volley>and go the painful ways only when really necessary
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11:09<fxrc>anyway, after I built the with svn, I try to install with dpkg -i, but I have a lot of dependencies problems...
11:10<fxrc>thanks Volley, I'll try that
11:12<Volley>sometimes a "aptitude -f install" or so can install missing dependencies from dpkg -i attempts.
11:16<fxrc>yes but the problem is the dependencies must be installed from the experimental branch
11:16<fxrc>it's a mess
11:17<schoggi>do not use aptitude, use apt instead of aptitude
11:17<schoggi>at all aptitude is not installed by default on [at least some] debian images
11:18<piper>fxrc: probably the best way would grab nvidia-driver from experimental (390.25)
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11:18<piper>apt --no-install-recommends --autoremove purge $(dpkg -l | grep -v 'un ' | grep nvidia | awk '{ print $2 }') && apt install -t experimental nvidia-driver
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11:19<Volley>well, if he is based on stretch and stretch-backports has a sufficient driver i think that might be safer than going experimental, but that is just my opinion :)
11:20<schoggi>fxrc: the '--no-install-recommends' parameter should be enjoyed with caution, its recommened, especially for new users, to not use it
11:21<piper>I don't do stable or backports, so if backports don't have a 390 based nvidia-driver, he/she is sol
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11:24<questioner>Hi guys!
11:25<piper>you could also use apt purge $(dpkg -l | awk '/nvidia/{ print $2 }') not sure of the repercussions in stable
11:25<fxrc>Actually I've managed to install correctly from backports, thanks Volley
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11:26<fxrc>anyway i'll look more deeply into the 390 release to see if there's some essential enhacements
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11:26<questioner>I've got a question regarding the chromium package in debian testing. Why is using version 62, when the package for stable is already using v64?
11:26<piper>NVIDIA GM204 [GeForce GTX 970] NVIDIA 390.25 (compat-v: 4.6.0) Direct Render: Yes
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11:27<fxrc>thanks to all! :)
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11:31<b17>questioner: stable got chromium v64 as a security fix, pkgs enter testing another way.
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11:32<questioner>thx b17
11:32<piper>https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/chromium-browser
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11:50<questioner>why isn't the testing package updated from sid? isn't there supposed to be a ~ 10 day period for packages to migrate?
11:53<b17>don't know, but people have been real busy building pkgs lately.
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11:54<b17>i had over 100 megs from security last 30 days
11:55<d2718>Is there someone here who knows way more about make and configure scripts than I do who might be able and inclined to help me figure out how to compile something?
11:55<questioner>sure, but shouldn't a browser have priority? chromium in buster currently has 42 open security issues
11:56<schoggi>if i want to type my password in a tty console, and while i still typing the password, the "session" does beginn new (timeout?); how can i fix this?
11:56<schoggi>tty console login
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11:58<questioner>okay thanks for the info guys!
11:58<blast007>questioner: see 7 and 8: https://www.debian.org/security/faq
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11:58<questioner>will do
11:58<questioner>thanks, bye!
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12:09<RandomNIck>hello, can someone tell me why package broadcom-sta-dkms is not visible in synaptic in debian testing?
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12:12<schoggi>because its obviously not aviaible in debian testing/buster
12:12<schoggi>not a problem with synaptic!
12:12<annadane>it was removed from testing due to https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=885885
12:12<judd>Bug http://bugs.debian.org/885885 in src:broadcom-sta (closed, patch): «FTBTS with linux 4.15, severe warnings with linux 4.14»; severity: serious; opened: 2017-12-30; last modified: 2018-02-14.
12:13<schoggi>*available
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12:23<Gabb2>Hi. I downloaded Debian Stretch and i installed it and all seems to work fine until now, but i have a question how I can do automatic updates in Debian? Before I had Ubuntu and there it was by default configured. Thanks
12:24<schoggi>hello Gabb2! [very] good idea to choose to debian from ub*ntu - welcome! this is probably what you want: https://wiki.debian.org/UnattendedUpgrades
12:26<schoggi>*move
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12:26<user__>kakani
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12:29<Gabb2>When i do install it with apt-get then i get "package not found" error
12:30<annadane>Gabb2, install what? the package name is unattended-upgrades
12:30<schoggi>https://wiki.debian.org/SourcesList#Example_sources.list do let your /etc/apt/sources.list look like the first example box in the link i gave you and then do update and upgrade your system first and then install the packages
12:31<schoggi>without double space bars ... great!
12:31<annadane>hah
12:32<annadane>yeah, someone complained about that so i went and changed it
12:32<schoggi>thats cool! very nice for you to do this
12:32<schoggi>*from
12:35<Gabb2>It works now but how do I upgrade my system ? I did apt-get update and I can now install the package from your link
12:35<schoggi>Gabb2 apt upgrade
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12:37<annadane>Gabb2, the link explains how to activate unattended upgrades - scroll down to the sections of "automatic call via..."
12:37<annadane>though AFAIK it activates automatically upon installation, but it's been a while
12:37<schoggi>afaik ?
12:37<annadane>as far as i know
12:38<schoggi>what does afaik mean
12:39<schoggi>hmm ...
12:40<schoggi>Gabb2, just read the link's page
12:41<annadane>schoggi, as far as i know
12:41<schoggi>annadane: oh ......
12:42<schoggi>now i got it
12:42<schoggi>yes, it still activates the unattended upgrades automatically by default, it is true
12:43<schoggi>but please read the link nevertheless and dont install just the package and be happy
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12:48<schoggi>im happy that you did move to debian, Gabb2, it is always nice to see when people leave ubuntu :-)
12:52<Gabb2>Why ?
12:54<schoggi>because ubuntu is a very bad extension of debian; nobody should use ubuntu - debian is available!
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12:56<mnuhmnuh>schoggi: not true. using *buntu is a great way to learn to appreciate the value of debian.
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12:57<schoggi>*close my ears*
12:58<mnuhmnuh>do they (*buntu) still recommend reinstall over upgrading? :-O
12:59<mnuhmnuh>prob. off topic, not to mention boring.
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13:20<Gabb2>Okay I did it.
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13:22<Gabb2>One question that I would have also ..I configured my wifi connection with wpa supplicant but I always have to ifup wlan0 to connect to the internet after restart
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13:24<schoggi>you have to add over the line "iface yourwifiadapter inet ....." "auto yourwifiadapter" in your /etc/network/interfaces if you want that it connects automatically after reboots
13:29<schoggi>i guess you forgot it
13:30<Gabb2>Yes I did indeed
13:30<schoggi>that can happen :)
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13:37<wonderwhy>ubuntu has a lot of lxd containers though
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13:41<wonderwhy>compiling a kernel is demanding even more disk space than it used to
13:41<wonderwhy>i am looking at 10 GB and counting here
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14:01<Arpegius>How can I write tabs in nroff?
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14:30<mnuhmnuh>\t # man 7 groff
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14:50<juergen>who wants an envelope sent to his postal address - i want to send a music band's Cd booklet to sbd
14:50<schoggi>still wrong channel, juergen!
14:50<juergen>*g*
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14:57<Gabb2>How can I install Google Earth in debian?? Thx
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15:02<schoggi>Gabb2 well, this is not a nice idea; maybe the free program "marble" could be a better alternative for you. but if you really want google earth, quick do with root rights in order: wget -q -O - https://dl.google.com/linux/linux_signing_key.pub | apt-key add - (to download the key with which google's linux packages are signed and add it to your apt keyring archive. use wget without root rights) echo 'deb http://dl.google.com/linux/earth/
15:02<schoggi>deb/ stretch main' >> /etc/apt/sources.list (to add the repository to your sources.list which contains google earth) finally: apt update && apt install google-earth -y and voila; there we should are now!
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15:07<Arpegius>mnuhmnuh, I've put it but it doesn't work, are you sure it's correct?
15:10<schoggi>Gabb2 do know that it is not supported by debian. i would recommend you to install marble https://packages.debian.org/stretch/marble instead of google earth and if you are not happy with marble, you can finally install google earth
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15:19<Gabb2>Thanks for help schoggi I did install Google Earth
15:20<schoggi>well, its your choice!
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15:26<wolf>hi
15:27<annadane>hi wolf
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15:32<mnuhmnuh>Arpegius: it's been a long time since i played w it, sorry. just hoped it'd jog you onto the right track. always like *off simplicity, but *tex blew their doors off.
15:33<mnuhmnuh>s/like/admired/
15:33<schoggi>but if im allowed to say, its a bad choice! Gabb2
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15:39<schoggi>Gabb2 it seems you didnt learn anything from ubuntu and at all i do not understand why you moved from ubuntu to debian if the first what you want to install on debian is google's spyware! maybe you better go back to ubuntu, it seems its perfect for you!
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15:41<annadane>that's fairly rude
15:41<mnuhmnuh>some people don't think they have anything to hide (or will be exploited by others w fewer scruples).
15:41<annadane>you can just indicate the danger of google's proprietary software without that
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15:43<Arpegius>annadane, mnuhmnuh what are you mumbling about?
15:43<Arpegius>ah okay it wasn't related sorry
15:45<Arpegius>mnuhmnuh, anyway since tab isn't \t what would you suggest?
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15:46<mnuhmnuh>Arpegius: i'd grab sample manpage sources and see how those who know do it.
15:47<Arpegius>mnuhmnuh, the problem is, manpages comes in various format, nroff is just one of them, if I would search manpages into sources in this way it would be a mess
15:50<mnuhmnuh>Arpegius: search for sysiv ed manpage source, et al. old stuff, before make created man, info, pdf, ... versions.
15:51<Arpegius>mnuhmnuh, sysiv is an actual manpage?
15:52<mnuhmnuh>system five UNIX. :-)
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15:52<mnuhmnuh>70's-ish
15:52<piper>Gabb2: you could have done this apt search googleearth https://packages.debian.org/stretch/googleearth-package
15:53<mnuhmnuh>oops sysv, damn.
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15:55*mnuhmnuh gettin' so damned old. sigh.
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15:57<schoggi>piper, what does this bring him? not recommend! if he want use google earth, then he should use the stable version and not this outdated, dilapidated version in debians contribs repo
15:58<annadane>something can be in stable _and_ contrib...
15:58<schoggi>but it is not.
15:58<schoggi>its everthing else than nearly stable
15:58<piper>schoggi: it's the same version in sid
15:58<schoggi>and also it is important to be everytime up-to-date with googles spyware
15:59<piper>and works fine
15:59<schoggi>piper, maybe in a superficially view
15:59<piper>schoggi: i also build android, guess i build spyware
16:00<schoggi>you can guess what you want!
16:00<piper>schoggi: it's also his/her machine, they can install what they please
16:01<piper>schoggi: it don't mean they get support, but don't sprout the M$ bs
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16:02<mnuhmnuh>schoggi: i have to agree w annadane on this, whether i like it or not. spyware, accurate or not, is inflammatory. not your place to change the world.
16:03<schoggi>piper, of course its his/her machine, those were only advices from me which i put to his/her heart :)
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16:03<annadane>i mean many would consider google spyware; i don't object to the word spyware, i do object to the rudeness of the presentation, the implication how the user should use ubuntu because they're clearly an idiot
16:03<annadane>that's unnecessary
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16:04<mnuhmnuh>schoggi: others don't want to care; their problem, not mine or yours.
16:04<Arpegius>^
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16:07<mnuhmnuh>idiots use win*; at least *buntu users are trying to think of alternatives to that horribleness.
16:08<Arpegius>schoggi: Furthermore with behaviors like this you can stave off people from the open source communities, and give reason to think that open source people are somewhat elitist (thing that I've heard sometimes)
16:09<schoggi>elitist ?
16:09-!-tuxampol [~Mylin@2001:a61:24dd:2c00:211:6bff:fe39:28f7] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:09<schoggi>what a exotic word!
16:09<schoggi>dont like it
16:11<Arpegius>schoggi, https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/elitist http://www.dictionary.com/browse/elitist
16:11<schoggi>oh sorry i will not go to this links
16:12<b17>here's a better link https://www.debian.org/code_of_conduct
16:13<Arpegius>^
16:13<mnuhmnuh>schoggi: you sound like me 20 years ago. gotta save them from themselves if it kills them/me. wrong. go play in #debian-offtopic with that, or rant w #debian-mentors.
16:14<annadane>"using google isn't good for freedom. that being said, if you still want to use it, this is how" is fine
16:14<annadane>not "you clearly haven't learned anything from ubuntu"
16:15<schoggi>oh please do not be rude! we want to be friendly here, mnuhmnuh, and this what you said was offensive
16:15<schoggi>and also a outrageous effrontery
16:15<annadane>so was what you said; sorry. now, let's all stop arguing
16:15<Arpegius>schoggi, if you're here to troll please leave
16:15<schoggi>Arpegius: no, im here to help and get help! :)
16:16<Arpegius>I hope so
16:16<schoggi>annadane: im with you! :-(
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16:16<schoggi>:-)*
16:16<mnuhmnuh>i'm here to learn. full stop.
16:17<Arpegius>Anyway, mnuhmnuh are you sure sysv is good to learn nroff? Do you have some links to help me?
16:19<schoggi>in view of getting help; if i want to login on a tty console, it does not work! until i typed the password fully, tty does start a new session and i have to try it again, is this a timeout feature of ttys login console ? and how can i change the timeout value
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16:19<adam__>hi
16:19<annadane>hello adam__
16:20<adam__>got a quick q about linux
16:20<adam__>anyone know a good very lightweight video player?
16:20<sney>mplayer
16:20<adam__>thx cause vlc is killing my comp
16:20<adam__>alright adios
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16:21<annadane>i guess mpv is the stock answer
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16:21<annadane>well, never mind, they left
16:22<b17>schoggi: I thnk the timeout is set in /etc/login.defs but I haven;t ever tried adjusting it
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16:23<b17>might be a systemd thing now?
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16:24<Arpegius>One day poettering will create GNU/Systemd
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16:26<schoggi>at least i found this line in the file, b17, i will try it, already thanks you! i hope it will work
16:26<schoggi># Max time in seconds for login
16:26<schoggi>LOGIN_TIMEOUT 60
16:26<mnuhmnuh>Arpegius: i use ixquick.com, and plugging in "nroff tab" says just what you need to read. "nroff/troff user's manual", & etc. that said, tabs are traditionally controversial; many despise them.
16:27<mnuhmnuh>i do.
16:27<annadane>GNU/Emacs, shame it lacks a good text editor
16:28<mnuhmnuh>slander!
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16:35*mnuhmnuh i use vi for quick tweaks. i use emacs for longer developments. how many decades did it take vi/vim to catch up to emacs' capability? it still hasn't. :-)
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16:37<mnuhmnuh>RMS may be/is a nutbar, but in certain circles, that's a badge of pride.
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16:40<b17>you emacs guys must have twelve fingers
16:41<b17>I really struggle with vi too, I just can't get it
16:42<annadane>i mean i use neither, basically just kwrite/kate :P
16:45<mnuhmnuh>not nano?
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16:46<annadane>i mean nano for simple things like editing a sources list
16:46<annadane>and other config files
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16:47<mnuhmnuh>first thing i do on linux install is apt remove nano.
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16:49<Volley>mnuhmnuh: funny, first thing i usually do is remove all but nano :)
16:49<gtristan>first thing I do, lookup the email where I have stored my ~/.emacs.d/init.el :)
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16:54<mnuhmnuh>second thing i do is wonder why winmgr ignores my emacs.geometry setting in ~/.Xresources
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16:59<gtristan>cute_korean_girl, 새해볶 많이 받으세요 ! :)
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16:59*gtristan enough for drunk 7am newyears chat
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17:01<mnuhmnuh>gtristan: wrong place. try #chat, or whatever.
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17:10<gtristan>mnuhmnuh, yes yes, bureaucracy bla bla, proper venues for chitter chatter about emacs vs vi and all; good night.
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17:31<melkor333>Hey guys, i guess i have kind of a big problem: I was trying to upgrade my Server from codename stretch to testing and while doing 'apt-get dist-upgrade' the terminal with my ssh session just died. Now I logged in again to the server and see that the upgrade process is still alive and I know it's waiting for an input from me (accepting new config file changes or something like that). Since I am on a new Session and since I
17:31<melkor333>didn't use screen or something similar to be able to just reopen the tty, I have no clue what to do.. Is there any way I can get that process into my actual shell session and interact with it?
17:32<melkor333>Or would the best be to send a SIGTERM so apt can cleanup and then restart the upgrade process?
17:35<sney>yeah just kill the process and then apt-get -f install from your other session
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17:35<somiaj>might have to manually remove a lockfile
17:35<melkor333>ok thanks guys
17:35<sney>and in the future you can use screen or tmux to have a session you can get back into after losing the connection
17:37-!-francesco [~smuxi@2001:b07:6463:87a0:21f:1fff:fe59:e16d] has joined #debian
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17:38<melkor333>yeah I will start using screen.. Bytheway apt told me to use 'sudo dpkg --configure -a' and it worked fine. Thanks again for your time!
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17:58<mnuhmnuh>"dpkg --configure -a" seems to be one of my most often used helpers lately. we suffer a lot of power failures hereabouts. works every time.
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18:13<schoggi>b17: the changing of tty login timeout following your advice worked well, thanks!
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18:44<Arpegius>mnuhmnuh, I'm not getting anything about tabs
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18:57<helaajoes>hi
18:57<annadane>hi helaajoes
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18:58<helaajoes>im new in debian
18:59<Parzival>Hi.
18:59<annadane>hi Parzival
18:59<Parzival>How do you do?
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19:00<Parzival>how do i register a name, i was trying to join #debian-offtopic
19:02<annadane> /msg nickserv help register
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19:06<Parzival>ok, got it. thanks
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19:09<schoggi>hello
19:09<Parzival>hi
19:10<schoggi>hello Parzival
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19:13<helaajoes>rmm /etc/apt/soucres.list
19:13<schoggi>helaajoes, its "rm /etc/apt/sources.list"
19:13<helaajoes>oh thanks
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19:14<schoggi>no problem!
19:14<schoggi>:-)
19:17<helaajoes>now it say Permission denied
19:17<schoggi>oh, do it with root rights!
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19:18<helaajoes>you mean sudo??
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19:18<schoggi>if you are using sudo for root actions, then yes
19:19<schoggi>or did you leave the root password as empty in the installation ?
19:19<helaajoes>yeah
19:20<schoggi>then you use sudo with your first user which you created on the installation
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19:21<helaajoes>yeah i removed the file
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19:21<schoggi>not bad at all! :-)
19:22<helaajoes>Thx
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19:33<helaajoes>which services are enabled ??? list
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19:35<schoggi>''service --status-all'' and look for [+]
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20:07<radio_nowhere>Is laptop-mode-tools still the gold standard for laptops? I was a little surprised it wasn't a dependency of task-laptop.
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20:09<schoggi>gold standard ?
20:10<radio_nowhere>A recommended install on laptops for power management?
20:10<schoggi>what do you mean with 'power management' ?
20:11<radio_nowhere>"Laptop mode is a Linux kernel feature that allows your laptop to save considerable power, by allowing the hard drive to spin down for longer periods of time. This package contains the userland scripts that are needed to enable laptop mode.
20:11<radio_nowhere>It includes support for automatically enabling laptop mode when the computer is working on batteries. It also supports various other power management features, such as starting and stopping daemons depending on power mode, automatically hibernating if battery levels are too low, and adjusting terminal blanking and X11 screen blanking
20:11<radio_nowhere>laptop-mode-tools uses the Linux kernel's Laptop Mode feature and thus is also used on Desktops and Servers to conserve power"
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20:13<b17>radio_nowhere: yes I use it, it still is a fine pkg. You might want to check out tlp also.
20:13<schoggi>laptop mode .... pfff
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20:15<radio_nowhere>Ah tlp, interesting, thank you! Have you had any issues with these both being installed at the same time? Or is a "one or the other" deal?
20:16<b17>yeah they do conflict, I know tlp will complain if lmt is installed.
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20:17<helaajoes>if i want to upgrade not working what to do ( i am new user) i did set up my sourceslist already but now i do apt-get upgrade and its not working :*(
20:17<schoggi1>helaajoes: before 'apt upgrade' do 'apt update'
20:18<schoggi1>and you dont have to type apt'-get' longer, by the way!
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20:19<schoggi1>it saves time for you to use only apt without the extension '-get'
20:23<helaajoes>yes now it works good it does upgrading my system
20:24<schoggi1>well!
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20:25<schoggi1>helaajoes: by the way, if you are interest in: if you want to do that it does automatically upgrade your system you can have a look to https://wiki.debian.org/UnattendedUpgrades
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20:31<helaajoes>yeah i want that automatic upgrade cool
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20:33<schoggi1>but i recommend you to do it manually! with the package unattended-upgrades you will have a additionally service running which is not great in view of security. you just could do manually upgrades
20:34<helaajoes>oh ok :(
20:34<schoggi1>:)
20:34<helaajoes>:(
20:34<schoggi1>:))
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20:37<helaajoes>schoggi1: why you first give me a tipp how i can do automatic upgrades and then you take me the joy to it .. why you then at all give me the tipp if you take it back immediately :(
20:38<schoggi1>it was only a additional info! im sorry if i did offend you with this
20:39<helaajoes>:(
20:39<schoggi1>:)!
20:39<schoggi1>and you do not need to follow my recommendations, you are free to do whatever you want, that is the great thing with debian!
20:40<vxqw>helaajoes: Server or desktop/laptop if you're running a server automatic updates are probably a good idea, but then you probably need to generate a report of updates applied as well so that you can audit the log for bad updates later
20:40<futune>having automatic updates is more secure than forgetting to update...
20:41<vxqw>futune: Sure, but having your only system break because of a bad update might be worse
20:42<futune>is this a debian stable system?
20:42<futune>the only time I had trouble with updates there was on dist-upgrade to new version
20:43<vxqw>futune: yes breakage really doesn't happen often on stable
20:44<schoggi1>maybe in a superficially view!
20:45<vxqw>I guess the real moral is never have only one computer and don't update them at exactly the same time, or use some system for rapid rollback
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20:47<helaajoes>if i do apt install unattended-upgrades i get package not found
20:48<schoggi1>well, so you want to do it? not well ... what is in your sources.list ?
20:48<mnuhmnuh>i would suggest not using automatic upgrades on servers. have a "take point" machine to test everything first, at least. review what's coming in manually/human eyes/brains.
20:51<helaajoes>my sources.list contains the line deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security/ main
20:52<schoggi1>you mean "stretch main" ?
20:52<helaajoes>yes
20:52<mnuhmnuh>sadly, what i said assumes all your machines are identical and/or you're rich.
20:52<schoggi1>helaajoes: well this is great! but if you want install unattended-upgrades you will have to add for example : deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stretch main
20:52<futune>all my machines are cloned VMs, so that's fine :p
20:53<mnuhmnuh>perfect. :-)
20:53<schoggi1>then you do update and then you are able to install the package unattended-upgrades [and many more]
20:54<helaajoes>Okey
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20:56<mnuhmnuh>futune: not that it can't still bite you in a new way. what will it cost to completely replace them all if they all blow at once?
20:58<futune>I'm afraid I was not entirely serious (but the statement was true)
20:58<futune>well, most of my machines, not all
20:59<mnuhmnuh>futune: i'm thinking of !@#$storms like morris smtp worm, dns waiting despreately for months for an "or end of world" bugfix, debian's ssh "=" instead of "==". !@#$ happens.
21:01<mnuhmnuh>have a "take point" machine to test everything first, at least.
21:01<mnuhmnuh>all i'm suggesting, for servers.
21:02<futune>we agree more or less, then
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21:03<anyun>hi
21:03<futune>I take upgrades to the hypervisor extremely seriously, it's physically in a different country and I have remote access only
21:03<schoggi1>hello anyun
21:03<anyun>hi
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21:04<anyun>where are you?
21:04<schoggi1>in my home
21:04<vxqw>futune: No out of band console?
21:04<mnuhmnuh>futune: i'm from the machine is "that big box with blinking lights in the super air conditioned and security controlled data center" days. :-)
21:05<anyun>you are Chinese
21:05<anyun>?
21:05<futune>vxqw, no, none.
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21:05<mnuhmnuh>i'm a dog.
21:05<vxqw>futune: hmm somewhat unusual
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21:07<futune>vxqw, it's my own hardware. I got it from an old employer who was upgrading theirs.
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21:08<vxqw>futune: Oh I c that makes sense
21:09<mnuhmnuh>what, tht there's 450,000,000,000, and they speak/converse with those understand what they're saying? how quaint.
21:09<helaajoes>if i do install and set in enforcing mode selinux-policy-mls then i am not able longer to login ??
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21:10<schoggi1>helaajoes: i make a guess that selinux is to complex for you to configure it and this is also a bad idea because debian does not well supporting selinux, at all especially the MLS policy, forget it. you want to have a look on this: https://wiki.debian.org/AppArmor if you really want a good integrated selinux system you should maybe use fedora, but you will be fine with apparmor i guess probably!
21:10<mnuhmnuh>helaajoes: can you ctrl-alt-f1 and login to console, then "su -" to root?
21:12*mnuhmnuh though i agree w schoggi1.
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21:13*mnuhmnuh i'd suggest slackware instead, but that's just me..
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21:15<schoggi1>mnuhmnuh: in view of better selinux integration and support i think the objective opinion would move to fedora
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21:16<futune>how do you feel about fedora vs centos?
21:18<schoggi1>in view of selinux integration and support ?
21:18<futune>yes
21:19<mnuhmnuh>schoggi1: gee, you didn't sound like an nsa plant an hour ago. :-) i've never trusted that stuff. looking very suspiciously at apparmor too. no, i'm not saying anything bad about it or accusing it of anything, just suspicious/careful. :-)
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21:21<schoggi1>futune: sadly i do not know about centos, so i can not say it.
21:21<mnuhmnuh>conservative to the max where servers are concerned. they can cause a lotof damage when they break.
21:22<vxqw>What about qubes-os? Desktop only of course
21:22<missmbob>!offtopic
21:22<dpkg>#debian is primarily a support channel for Debian users. Please keep the discussions in #debian on-topic and take longer discussions and non-support questions to #debian-offtopic. Imagine the chaos if each of the hundreds of people in the channel felt the need to wander off topic for a few minutes every day.
21:22<futune>sorry
21:22<vxqw>Opps offended the machine
21:23<futune>not allowed to join #debian-offtopic...
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21:24<vxqw>exactly me to
21:24<missmbob>you must register your nick
21:24<helaajoes>how can i enable all apparmor profiles that are available on my system
21:25<mnuhmnuh>all (well, all i've tried) of the redhattish distros work quite well in my experience. if corps/anyone demand a corporate handhold, they can do little better than redhat.
21:25<schoggi1>helaajoes: aa-enforce /etc/apparmor.d/*
21:25<schoggi1>read also the documenation about apparmor and how to add new profiles
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21:26<schoggi1>its very easy and this is a big different between apparmor and selinux
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21:29<mnuhmnuh>schoggi1: i'd prefer scientific linux, but fedora may be equal.
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21:45<helaajoes>how can i set a background in openbox ?? it is just black but i want to set up a cool background yeah
21:46<schoggi1>you can install the little program 'feh' for that and then simply set your background with 'feh --bg-scale /path/backgroundimage'
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21:48<mnuhmnuh>feh is a great prog. even happily edits/rotates easily silly cellphone pics.
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21:49<mnuhmnuh>my old nokia pis always came in upside down.
21:49<mnuhmnuh>s/pis/pics/
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21:54<schoggi1>mnuhmnuh: yes i do like feh too
21:54<schoggi1>in comparison with similar programs
21:56<helaajoes>this worked cool thanks schoggi1
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21:56<schoggi1>no problem! :)
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22:00<mnuhmnuh>holy crap. sl is 7.* gb. my blanks only hold 4.*
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22:00<mnuhmnuh>:-(
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22:02<awal1>helaajoes, feh creates a hiden file where it stores last wallpaper path used. just edit that next time
22:02<awal1>.fehbg
22:02<awal1>hm, he left
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23:30-!-schoppenhauer1 [~schoppenh@ppp-188-174-101-6.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #debian
23:31-!-schoppenhauer [~schoppenh@000135a9.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:34-!-andrew123 [~andrew@200.24.153.43] has joined #debian
23:34-!-andrew123 is "Alberto" on #debian
23:35<andrew123>hola
23:35<andrew123>hablas español
23:35<somiaj>!es
23:35<dpkg>Este canal es de soporte técnico en Inglés para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en Español, puede ingresar en #debian-es tecleando /join #debian-es en la línea de chat.
23:44-!-andrew123 [~andrew@200.24.153.43] has quit [Quit: Saliendo]
23:47-!-Parzival [~pi@207-47-166-180.swcr.hsdb.sasknet.sk.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
23:47-!-dvs [~hibbard@00012127.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:54-!-wonder [~windw@185.230.127.122] has joined #debian
23:54-!-wonder is "realname" on #debian #linux
23:58-!-wonderhwy [~windw@89.249.64.244] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
---Logclosed Sun Feb 18 00:00:12 2018