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#debian IRC Logs for 2018-06-01

---Logopened Fri Jun 01 00:00:35 2018
00:01<drakonis>then there's a bunch of fancy little debian tools like aptfs
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00:31<sky_king>I have a problem with Xfce the weather plugin will not find any locations I'm running Stretch 9.4
00:32<sky_king>It keeps defaulting to "Schaumburg, Illinois" I don't know why.
00:34<annadane>i'd maybe ask in a more xfce specific channel, if nobody knows here
00:34<annadane>!xfce
00:34<dpkg>Xfce is a pretty nifty Desktop Environment. Lightweight, fast, compact. To install, ask me about <install xfce>. https://wiki.debian.org/Xfce http://wiki.xfce.org/faq http://www.xfce.org/ #xfce on irc.freenode.net.
00:35<sky_king>Ok thanks
00:36<annadane>not sure whether it relies on geoclue or not
00:36<annadane>like redshift does
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00:42<sky_king>What time are the channel ops in?
00:42<sky_king>Online
00:43<annadane>there's usually one active 24/7, basically, in my experience
00:44<sky_king>I've been trying to solve the plugin problem for sometime now.
00:45<annadane>i'm not sure the ops will know any more than the rest of us
00:45<sky_king>Thanks all
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00:45<somiaj>channel ops have very little to do with your issue. Maybe check bug reports or google.
00:45<annadane>if someone does know they'll reply
00:48<jm_>heh
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01:36<rob_debian>Hi all !
01:41<rob_debian>I had to install firmware-amd-graphics on this debian stretch installation runing on this machine, but when I upgraded to 4.16 kernel version, there was this message: https://paste.debian.net/1027538/
01:42<annadane>rtl is realtek and has nothing to do with amd graphics
01:42<rob_debian>Please, do I have to install all of these missing firmwares ? are they available on debian stable repositories ?
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01:42<annadane>it's most likely wifi
01:42<annadane>(i _think_)
01:42<rob_debian>Oh, hi annadane, glad to see you here again !:)
01:42<annadane>so unless you need full wifi functionality you don't need it
01:42<jm_>search for the file it mentions, say /lib/firmware/rtl_nic/rtl8107e-2.fw and you'll find it's included in the firmware-realtek package
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01:43<rob_debian>I see annadane, my wi-fi connection is working fine here
01:43<annadane>jm_, how do you actually do that, when i search the debian wiki firmware page it sometimes isn't found there
01:44<annadane>i know you can cross reference these things via pciid
01:44<rob_debian>hi jm_ how are you ? well, you mean 'firmware-realtek' ? the name of this package ?
01:44<jm_>annadane: apt-file, packages.debian.org (the lowest search box, and sometimes you need to search in unstable)
01:44<annadane>but yeah, realtek is wifi
01:44<jm_>rob_debian: that one contains the first file which is mentioned as missing
01:45<annadane>right, apt-file
01:46<somiaj>usually new kernels have support for newer firmware (That may not be needed), but that newer firmware comes from stretch-backports as well
01:46<somiaj>so the errors may not actually affect the system, but the kernel just saying it can't find some newer firmware that isn't availble on your ysstem.
01:46<jm_>indeed, get the firmware packages from bpo if you get the kernel from there
01:47<rob_debian>Hi somiaj, nice to see you here !:)
01:47<annadane>debian "warnings" are verbose are generally ignorable
01:47<rob_debian>please, jm_, not so sure about the name of this package
01:47<annadane>and are generally ignorable*
01:48<rob_debian>so, why does hapeen such this thing if they can be ignorable, annadane ?
01:48<annadane>for the information of the user, because everyone is admin on their own pc
01:49<annadane>also possibly arbitrary developer decisions, depending on cirumstance
01:49<rob_debian>oh, I see...
01:49<annadane>as you get more experience you kind of know what can be ignored and what's more serious
01:49<annadane>it's not easy to tell just in general terms
01:49<somiaj>rob_debian: you don't need to say hi and greet everyone who responds to you each time. Standard etiquette is to focus on the issues/question being asked.
01:49<jm_>rob_debian: https://packages.debian.org/stretch/firmware-realtek
01:50<jm_>replace "stretch" with "stretch-backports" if you want info for the version from bpo
01:50<rob_debian>thanks for the hint, jm_ :)
01:51<annadane>i get missing firmware warnings about wifi all the time but i don't use it so i just ignore it
01:51<rob_debian>fine, annadane, thanks for hint also !
01:51<annadane>and anything with "ACPI" can basically be universally ignored
01:52<annadane>as can "apt autoremove", annoyingly, and at worst can actually break your system, but that's another discussion entirely and less relevant to debian stable
01:52<annadane>unless you did bad things you weren't supposed to with your stable system
01:52<rob_debian>because it's about a package not too useful nowadays, annadane ?
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01:52<annadane>well, the idea is "you can safely remove these packages, they're no longer in use" which is... not foolproof
01:53<somiaj>no, it is because most people install a desktop from tasksel, and removing one piece of the desktop will make apt think you want the rest removed.
01:53<rob_debian>I see, well, thank you very much for information and attention, annadane :)
01:53<annadane>it's not comprehensive, if it tried to be comprehensive about linking every package to every other one it'd basically be an impossible task
01:54<somiaj>Just pay attention to what commands do and don't blindy run things told to you on the internet (even here)
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01:54<annadane>as somiaj mentioned metapackages are one reason why that list gets populated with dozens of items
01:56<annadane>it's just misleading and i wish debian handled it a bit differently but i don't know how/what i'd specifically propose to the devs
01:56<annadane>anyway, off topic, sorry
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01:56<somiaj>but trying to anticipate every use case is out of the question, and burden falls on the admin to pay attention to what is going on.
01:56<annadane>absolutely
01:57<somiaj>annadane: its a hard problem, yum might do some things slightly better in this regard, but others slighly worse. In essense it is a fairly simplistic solution to try to not have your system cluttered with uneeded libaries (mostly) and other depends once software is removed.
01:58<somiaj>I think yums roll back option has some nicer features in this regard (but this is only useful if you roll back fairly soon after installing/testing -- not moths or years down the line)
01:58<annadane>i'd maybe just add a disclaimer, "this list was generated using this criteria, it does not imply that removing these programs will automatically give you no problems"
01:58<somiaj>then things are to verbose, that information is avaible elsewhere if someone wants to know where that list came from.
01:58<annadane>yep
01:59<somiaj>again no easy solution, which is mostly resolved by people learning how to admin their system.
01:59<somiaj>(which isn't easy, and takes time and effort)
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02:00<annadane>i think we lost rob in my tirade :P
02:00<rob_debian>no problem, annadane, I'm reading your analyses and somiaj here. thanks for attention !
02:04<rob_debian>please jm_ and annadane, should I use this line in etc/apt/sources.list in the case of having more interest on realtek firmwares ?
02:04<rob_debian>deb https://packages.debian.org/stretch-backports/firmware-realtek
02:04<rob_debian>please, is that right ?
02:04<annadane>you don't put package names in your sources list
02:04<annadane>you just need stretch-backports, like you have, remove the firmware-realtek part of it
02:04<jm_>rob_debian: which kernel version are you using?
02:05<rob_debian>I use this line for backports: deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian stretch-backports main
02:05<annadane>(is packages.debian.org even a valid mirror...?)
02:05<jm_>and you don't put packages.debian.org in sources.list either :)
02:05<annadane>okay, then just use that
02:05<rob_debian>jm_ 4.16.0-0.bpo.1-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.16.5-1~bpo9+1 (2018-05-06)
02:06<jm_>rob_debian: ok so install the firmware-realtek package from bpo
02:06<rob_debian>thanks annadane and jm_
02:06<annadane>apt -t stretch-backports install firmware-realtek
02:06<annadane>is the syntax
02:06<annadane>or apt install -t stretch-backports firmware-realtek :P
02:06<rob_debian>thanks annadane, I was in doubt about the package name !
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02:07<annadane>well, you have the package name, just that i wasn't sure if you knew how to install backport packages
02:07<rob_debian>yes, sometimes I used -t for installing any package from backports. thank you very much :)
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02:08<rob_debian>oh, fine, annadane :) I use backports for some time here
02:12<rob_debian>well, thank you very much for attention and great support annadane, jm_ and somiaj !
02:12<rob_debian>see you :)
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03:18<McFrolicker>I have had Siduction 18.3 LXQt 0.13 installed on Intel i5-3400 with DDR3 for about 5 hours. I like it but have some issues
03:18<annadane>McFrolicker, you should ask in #siduction
03:19<McFrolicker>Thank you. I have never really done this chat thing
03:20<somiaj>differnt channels topics focus on different software, linux distroibutions and what not. This is a debian support channel, but since you are running siduction, we direct you to their support channel
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04:51<Guest4337>hi
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05:06<twb>For my sins, I have a Stretch GNOME laptop here. I let the GNOME "Software Updater" GUI (or something) do a full package update yesterday. When I looked at it this morning, X was not running, and the text console had some bunch of lines like (from memory) "Installing frobozz [#######]"
05:07<twb>When I tried to log in on the text console, it told me pam_login.so was rejecting logins because it was still booting.
05:07<twb>I hard-rebooted it, and since then the wifi is not working, but because it's managed by GNOME GUI crap (NM?), I have NFI how to debug or fix it.
05:07<petn-randall>twb: Does 'apt update && apt upgrade' run throught clean?
05:07<twb>aptitude at least reports that everything is installed A-OK
05:07<petn-randall>!bat
05:07<dpkg>In order to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, apt or aptitude we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use http://paste.debian.net/ to provide us with this information. Also ask me about <localized errors>.
05:07<petn-randall>twb: ^^^
05:08<twb>it's got no network so I can't apt update. apt install and dpkg --configure -a both indicate there's nothing left to do
05:08<twb>So AFAICT apt is happy and the only problem is the wifi
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05:10<twb>journalctl -b0 shows NM whinging because it cannot use IPv6, because I've disabled that in the bootloader...
05:10<twb>In earlier boots, only avahi whinged about that
05:11<twb>So I guess a security update to a stable release has broken support for IPv4-only >:-/
05:12<petn-randall>I don't think so, that error is unrelated to your problem.
05:15<twb>booting with ipv6.disable=0, journalctl indicates the 802.11 layer has succeeded, but the DHCP DORA is not getting a DHCPOFFER
05:16<twb>there is an iptables (v4) firewall present, but it's set to statefully accept responses to locally-initiated flows (including UDP pseudo-connections)
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05:16<twb>(and that firewall was there before the problem appeared)
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05:18<twb>It's associated with the same BSSID as my netbook, which is currently working AND got a DHCP address. Clearing the v4 ruleset and retrying had no effect.
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05:19<twb>The DHCP server (on the far side of the wifi AP bridge) shows no DHCPREQUEST from 9e:a4:3f:d5:68:db
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05:20<twb>That MAC address is not whitelisted!
05:20<twb>This is very interesting because exactly the same laptop, booted into CentOS, *IS* working over wifi
05:21<twb>So apparently something in the update decided to start MAC spoofing?
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05:22<twb>The first occurrence of the MAC address is 4 f*ing minutes ago
05:22<twb>And it's (hand-copying) "NetworkManager: ... set-hw-addr: set MAC address to 9E:A4:3F:D5:68:DB (scanning)"
05:23<twb>How do I tell Network Manager that my wifi network has per-MAC PSKs and it should not f*ing change the MAC address to a random number
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05:24<petn-randall>twb: In the wifi tab, 'cloned mac address' should be set to 'preserve'.
05:24<twb>journalctl -u NetworkManager | grep set-hw-addr indicates that it's switching MAC only during the scan phase
05:25<petn-randall>twb: That's normal, even for other OSes.
05:25<twb>So it *ought* to roll back to the old address before the DHCPREQUEST, surely?
05:25<petn-randall>twb: Yes, it does that.
05:25<twb>it should- oh never mind, I'm dumb
05:26<twb>the MAC whitelist is in hostapd not in dnsmasq-dhcp
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05:26<petn-randall>heh :)
05:26<petn-randall>So it should also fail in centos, right?
05:27<twb>It should be failing to associate before it even gets to the DHCPREQUEST
05:28<twb>petn-randall: CentOS is really old so it probably predates this crap ^W privacy feature
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05:29<twb>petn-randall: this was *definitely* working on Debian, with wifi, yesterday, before the security upgrade. So either something changed then, or it's a race condition and I just got lucky.
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05:29<twb>And journalctl indicates that set-hw-addr has been happening at least as far back as 9 Feb 2018
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05:30<twb>You suggested earlier to force it to "preserving" mode in the GUI, I can't see that in the GNOME Settings > Network screen
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05:32<twb>For the SSID-specific option there is an explicit "MAC Address" and it's set to the address I whitelisted
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05:33<twb>I think I'm going to give up on solving this for toda
05:33<twb>...y
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05:42<twb>petn-randall: thanks for your help
05:44<petn-randall>twb: You're welcome. However, I don't understand why so many things broke for you. I'm thinking you have a more fundamental issue below you need to fix.
05:45<twb>Some of it is just because I'm an ornery old bugger
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05:46<twb>Using per-MAC PSKs is very unusual, nearly as unusual as WPA2 EAP-TLS, which is what I used to use
05:46<petn-randall>twb: Maybe mixing stable with other releases?
05:46<petn-randall>twb: that is indeed unusual, but from the client perspective should not be a problem at all.
05:47<twb>(Except it turned out that WPA2 EAP-TLS, which is a mandatory EAP for "Enterprise Wifi" branding, is not supported by Xbox 360, by HP LaserJets, by Nokia N900s, by iPhones that are not connected to an expensive corporate provisioning server, by ...)
05:47<twb>Admittedly that was a while ago, so it's possible things have improved
05:48<twb>petn-randall: I didn't actually check today, but that laptop was provisioned by me to be a stable install, so it absolutely shouldn't have any buster/sid turned on
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07:10<gfx>Hello people.
07:10<gfx>I have a question, it should be really simple.
07:10<annadane>go right ahead
07:11<gfx>I have successfully installed Debian onto partition on my hard drive. The problem is it boots into Windows.
07:12<jm_>did it not ask you to install grub on MBR?
07:12<gfx>It did not.
07:12<jm_>strange
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07:13<lordievader>gfx: Is it an efi install?
07:13<gfx>Yes
07:13<petn-randall>gfx: Which installation image did you use, and how did you prepare the installation image?
07:13<petn-randall>gfx: Which installation image did you use, and how did you prepare the installation medium?
07:14<gfx>Formated the USB to FAT32 with Windows and used Win32DiskImager to copy iso data to USB. Rufus does not work. debian-9.4.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso
07:14<jm_>(format was pointless in this case)
07:14<gfx>So basically now I have Debian lying on a partition but can't access it.
07:14<gfx>Don't know how to boot to that partition with my USB key.
07:14<jm_>you can boot the installer in rescue mode to fix it
07:15<jm_>Advanced options -> Rescue mode
07:15<lordievader>gfx: You might be able to browse harddrive from the efi bootloader, and from there boot grub.
07:16<gfx>@jm_: Okay, I will try that. @lordievader: Okay, I'll try that too. Then I'll come back and post you the results.
07:17<gfx>Thanks you guys.
07:17<gfx>See you in a bit. Bye.
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07:17<jm_>I hope they know how to install grub
07:18<lordievader>I think the issue is that his efi bootloader simply ignores the other entry. (Or skips selection and goes straight for Windows)
07:19<lordievader>IIRC, my laptop did the same. Until I modified the menu and gave my Gentoo install a higher preference.
07:19<petn-randall>Even if grub installs itself into the ESP, you still have to select it in the EFI setup.
07:19<annadane>is this another example of microsoft silliness or is it more a debian problem
07:19<annadane>i should probably actually read and not skim
07:19<petn-randall>It's more EFI silliness.
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07:20<jm_>I just use legacy boot mode
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07:29<gfx>Hello. I don't have Linux Boot anymore. Resuce mode did not help.
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07:29<annadane>this poor individual is trapped in WINDOWS!
07:30<annadane>collect ALL support resources immediately
07:30<jm_>the idea behing rescue mode is to find and mount existing installation and you need to fix it manually from there - did it not achieve that?
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07:32<gfx>Hmm, no.
07:33<gfx>@annadane: You are correct.
07:33<petn-randall>gfx: Which part did you get stuck at?
07:33<gfx>I installed Debian on a partition and now the problem is how to boot to that partition
07:33<gfx>I have windows
07:34<gfx>When I turn on computer it boots into windows
07:34<gfx>Therefore I need a bootloader before all stuff
07:34<gfx>on my harddrive
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07:34<gfx>or on the usb key
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07:34<jm_>to start with, make sure quick boot is turned off
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07:36<gfx>It's off now.
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07:41<lordievader>gfx: Are you able to browse your harddrive through efi?
07:43<gfx>I'm not able.
07:43<jm_>and you see any files for linux on the EFI system partition? does windows allow one to browse that?
07:44<gfx>It doesn't allow, I don't see linux partition through the explorer but through disk managment I see.
07:44<gfx>Windows explorer doesn't show linux partition.
07:44<gfx>I can see it in partition manager, disk managment.
07:45<jm_>for EFI there's a small partition with FAT file system on it called EFI system partition
07:46<jm_>that's not related to linux, windows also puts its files there
07:48<lordievader>jm_: Does Windows expose that? Wouldn't be surprised if it hides that for safety.
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07:48<jm_>i'm not sure on steps to get this to work - I always get frustrated with EFI and turn it off ;)
07:48<jm_>lordievader: yeah I assume it does, that's why I asked
07:50<gfx>I am planning to install GRUB on the hard drive
07:50<gfx>And boot from there
07:51<peter1138>The EFI partition is hidden in Windows, as far as I know.
07:52<jm_>gfx: while you were gone this was said: <petn-randall> Even if grub installs itself into the ESP, you still have to select it in the EFI setup.
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07:52<jm_>just be aware there may be extra steps
07:54<gfx>Thank you guys for your help.
07:54<gfx>There is some kind of a document online, that states that you should do everything before asking someone, that asking other people is the last step.
07:54<jm_>i'm sure someone with more clues can help you, so just try asking again later
07:55<gfx>I'm certain that I did not do everything that I am able to do before asking.
07:55<annadane>can try the mailing list too debian-user@lists.debian.org
07:55<jm_>naah, we don't mind helping people here, obviously if you invest some time in finding a solution helps
07:55<jm_>helps a lot*
07:55<gfx>Thanks for the help guys.
07:56<annadane>or forums.debian.net or one of the other 49864754957 debian support resources :P
07:56<gfx>Exactly.
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08:26<Bad>uh! what is this!?
08:27<annadane>Bad, this is a support channel for debian linux
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09:25<sanjibukai__>Hi
09:25<sanjibukai__>Can anyone help me configure my keyboard layout using xkb?
09:25<sanjibukai__>https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/447253/how-to-have-multipl-level-3-modifier-using-xkb
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10:30<dc0b>hi
10:30<dc0b>anyone here?
10:30<bremner>!ask
10:30<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
10:31<dc0b>I am new in parrot os
10:31<petn-randall>!parrot
10:31<dpkg>Parrot OS (https://www.parrotsec.org/) is a security and penetration testing distribution. It is based on Debian testing, but it is not Debian and is not supported in #debian. Seek help in #parrot on irc.frozenbox.org or try the mailing lists at http://lists.parrotsec.org/listinfo. Also ask me about <based on debian>.
10:31<petn-randall>dc0b: Try connecting to the right channel. ^^^
10:32<dc0b>I want to monitor all device who in my wifi net work. What they are doing. I want to get access their device
10:32<dc0b>is it possible to do?
10:33<dc0b>I know wireshark
10:33<bremner>dc0b: please read above
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11:19<ach>is dcc allowed?
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12:01-!-wompa_ is now known as wompa
12:05-!-ribe [~ribe@0001bc47.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.6.5 - http://znc.in]
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12:05-!-NomadJim_ [~Jim@72.168.160.48] has joined #debian
12:05-!-ribe is "ribe" on #tor-relays #debian-next #debian #tor-project #tor
12:05-!-NomadJim_ is "Nomad" on #linode #debian
12:06-!-BRUTUS [~oftc-webi@189.9.20.111] has joined #debian
12:06-!-BRUTUS is "OFTC WebIRC Client" on #debian
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12:11-!-dxld is "dxld" on #realraum #multiarch #debian-boot #debian #bcache
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12:12-!-jhutchins_wk is "Jonathan Hutchins" on #oftc #debian
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12:20-!-skitt is "Stephen Kitt" on #debian
12:26-!-Haudegen [~quassel@212-186-77-29.static.upcbusiness.at] has joined #debian
12:26-!-Haudegen is "AP,,," on #debian-next #debian-kde #debian #debian-desktop #security #debian.or.at #debian-til
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12:31-!-w0lfreak is "W0lFreaK" on @#faustctf #debian-kde #debian
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12:35-!-aerostitch is "Joseph Herlant" on #debian-ruby #debian-gnome #debian
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12:37-!-francesco is "francesco" on #debian #smuxi
12:38-!-francesco is now known as Guest4370
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12:40-!-mvr is "mvr" on #debian
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12:45-!-dxld [~dxld@2002:506d:9110:0:3a2c:4aff:fec8:74b6] has joined #debian
12:45-!-dxld is "dxld" on #multiarch #debian-haskell #debian-hams #debian-boot #debian
12:46-!-LadyFantastic [~MadelynMa@107.170.199.108] has joined #debian
12:46-!-LadyFantastic is "MadelynMax" on #debian
12:47-!-nowhere_man [~pierre@00012946.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
12:47-!-nowhere_man is "Pierre Thierry" on @#concatenative #emacs #git @#erights #lisp #debian-kde #debian
12:50-!-hele_ [~hele@88-115-23-86.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #debian
12:50-!-hele_ is "hele" on #debian-next #debian-kde #debian
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12:54-!-mikemike is "KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://kvirc.net/" on #osm #open-maps-more-than-maps #biz #debian
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12:58-!-Jan\ is "KVIrc 5.0.0 Aria http://kvirc.net/" on #osm #debian
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13:04-!-sunilmohan is "Sunil Mohan Adapa" on #monkeysphere #debian-in #freedombox #pere #debian-webapps #debian-diaspora #debian #debian-blends #freedombox-ci #debian-js #debian-reproducible #debian-boot
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13:04-!-tdy is "tdy" on #debian #awesome
13:10-!-arto [~arto@n69yazpw59mg139wa-1.v6.elisa-mobile.fi] has joined #debian
13:10-!-arto is "realname" on #debian
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13:15-!-dxld [~dxld@2002:506d:9110:0:3a2c:4aff:fec8:74b6] has joined #debian
13:15-!-dxld is "dxld" on #debian-boot #debian #realraum #multiarch #debian-haskell #debian-hams #bcache
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13:23-!-random45634567347 is "random45634567347" on #debian-kde #debian
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13:30-!-dxld is "dxld" on #realraum #multiarch #debian-boot #debian #bcache
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13:33-!-mack-pt [~mack-pt@163.47.158.18] has joined #debian
13:33-!-mack-pt is "realname" on #debian
13:34<mack-pt>sob e mathar upor dia jay
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13:36-!-kritzefitz [~kritzefit@dslb-178-009-155-180.178.009.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined #debian
13:36-!-kritzefitz is "realname" on #debian-haskell #debian-next #debian
13:36-!-thescientist [~thescient@87.196.53.214] has joined #debian
13:36-!-thescientist is "realname" on #debian-next #debian-br #debian
13:37-!-MrSc00b [~freddiepa@165.255.98.153] has joined #debian
13:37-!-MrSc00b is "Freddie Pauer" on #debian
13:37-!-enick_613 is now known as biotim
13:38-!-nowhereman [~pierre@ede67-3-82-235-52-53.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #debian
13:38-!-nowhereman is "Pierre Thierry" on #concatenative #emacs #git #erights #lisp #debian-kde #debian
13:40-!-kmshanah_ [~kmshanah@pa49-178-7-160.pa.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #debian
13:40-!-kmshanah_ is "Kevin Shanahan" on #debian
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13:42-!-jipege1 is "zaza,,," on #debian-i18n #debian-publicity #debian-l10n-fr #debian
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13:45-!-samueloph_ is "Samuel Henrique" on #debian #debian-ruby #debian-br #minidebconf-br #debian-devel-br
13:45-!-dxld [~dxld@80-109-145-16.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has joined #debian
13:45-!-dxld is "dxld" on #realraum #debian-hams #debian-boot #debian #bcache
13:48-!-dboles [~daniel@bcdf9e7e.skybroadband.com] has joined #debian
13:48-!-dboles is "dboles" on #debian #debian-gnome
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13:49-!-samueloph_ is now known as samueloph
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13:53-!-MrSc00b [~freddiepa@165.255.98.153] has left #debian [Leaving]
13:54-!-fennfloof [~student@67.209.30.241] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
13:54-!-birkoff [~jenin@bzq-79-179-245-39.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #debian
13:54-!-birkoff is "jenin" on #debian
13:55-!-ThatOneGuy [~ThatOneGu@41.210.1.171] has joined #debian
13:55-!-ThatOneGuy is "realname" on #debian
13:55<ThatOneGuy>hello
13:56-!-samueloph [~samueloph@168.90.50.90] has quit [Quit: samueloph]
13:57<ThatOneGuy>NO longer shall we be oppressed
13:57<ThatOneGuy>Let us take back our civilization
13:57<ThatOneGuy>Ridding the world of these so called computers
13:57<ThatOneGuy>Join me my brothers and sisters of #debian
13:57<bremner>!chat
13:57<dpkg>This is not a chat channel, this is a Debian user support channel. Unless you have a Debian support question, please chat elsewhere, like #debian-offtopic, or #moocows on irc.oftc.net or ##chat on irc.freenode.net.
13:58<ThatOneGuy>Sorry my bad
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13:59-!-chaos [torment@000179de.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
13:59-!-chaos is "realname" on #perl #php #debian-next #debian
14:00-!-dxld [~dxld@2002:506d:9110:0:3a2c:4aff:fec8:74b6] has joined #debian
14:00-!-dxld is "dxld" on #realraum #debian-hams #debian-boot #debian #bcache
14:02-!-samueloph [~samueloph@168.90.50.90] has joined #debian
14:02-!-samueloph is "Samuel Henrique" on #debian #debian-ruby #debian-br #minidebconf-br #debian-devel-br
14:03-!-ToBeFree [~tobefree@00019d36.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
14:03-!-ToBeFree is "Tobias "ToBeFree" Frei" on #https-everywhere #oolite-dev #openttd #tor @#linux-ops #debian #linux #oolite #oolite-ger
14:04-!-tdy [~tdy@00016994.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
14:04-!-tdy is "tdy" on #debian #awesome
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14:05-!-magu is "magu" on #debian
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14:10-!-ali [~quassel@190-207-242-161.dyn.dsl.cantv.net] has joined #debian
14:10-!-ali is "Ali Alfonso Montevideo,,," on #debian
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14:10-!-Delta-One is "P.F." on #debian-next #debian-kde #debian
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14:19-!-jipege1 is "zaza,,," on #debian-i18n #debian-publicity #debian-l10n-fr #debian
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14:20-!-Firefly is "CharlotteElijah" on #debian
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14:21-!-samueloph is "Samuel Henrique" on #debian #debian-ruby #debian-br #minidebconf-br #debian-devel-br
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14:30-!-my123 is "Windows RT lab (fbl_woa/woachk)" on #pocl #debian #mingw-w64 #qemu
14:33-!-jacob_ [~jacob@2a02:a450:f417:1:329c:23ff:fe60:b20a] has joined #debian
14:33-!-jacob_ is "Jacob" on #debian #debian-next
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14:34-!-jacob_ is now known as Guest4378
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14:37-!-samueloph is "Samuel Henrique" on #debian #debian-ruby #debian-br #minidebconf-br #debian-devel-br
14:45-!-dxld [~dxld@2002:506d:9110:0:3a2c:4aff:fec8:74b6] has joined #debian
14:45-!-dxld is "dxld" on #multiarch #debian-haskell #debian-hams #debian-boot #debian
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14:53-!-esaym153 is "esaym153" on #debian
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14:56-!-jrheaton is "Textual User" on #fish #debian #gcc #qemu
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14:58-!-quentusrex is "William King" on #debian
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15:01-!-thomasross is "thomasross" on #debian #debian-next
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15:10-!-tdy is "tdy" on #debian #awesome
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15:13-!-samueloph is "Samuel Henrique" on #debian #debian-ruby #debian-br #minidebconf-br #debian-devel-br
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15:17-!-ToBeFree is "Tobias "ToBeFree" Frei" on #https-everywhere #oolite-dev #openttd #tor #debian @#linux #oolite #oolite-ger
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15:21-!-AlexDenisov is "AlexDenisov" on #debian
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15:27-!-splinux [~damien@2a02:2788:834:473:9eeb:e8ff:fe3f:1c11] has joined #debian
15:27-!-splinux is "realname" on #debian-xfce #debian
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15:28-!-splinux is "realname" on #debian-xfce #debian
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15:32-!-cheyo is "realname" on #debian
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15:33-!-gargaml is "js" on #debian-next #debian
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15:35-!-herbmillerjr is "realname" on #debian-xfce #debian
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15:38-!-grimes is "realname" on #debian #tor
15:41-!-lethu [~lethu@102.252.152.21] has joined #debian
15:41-!-lethu is "realname" on #debian
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15:41<lethu>hello
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15:42<splinux>hi
15:42<annadane>!ask
15:42<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
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15:42-!-kritzefitz_ is "realname" on #debian-haskell #debian-next #debian
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15:43-!-kritzefitz_ is "realname" on #debian-haskell #debian-next #debian
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15:45-!-kritzefitz is "Sven Bartscher" on #debian #debian-next #debian-haskell
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15:45-!-dxld is "dxld" on #realraum #debian-hams #debian-boot #debian #bcache
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16:07<rob_debian>Hi all, please , I would like to know if there is any specific configuration that I have to do in my debian stretch so that it recognizes the new version for the linux kernel available in the backports repository; my current kernel is 4.15.11-1 ~ bpo9 + 1, but version 4.16.0-0.bpo.1-amd64 is already available
16:08<rob_debian>or update-upgrade process doesn't recognize it and I should have to upgrade it manually ?
16:09<petn-randall>,kernels
16:09<judd>Available kernel versions are: experimental: 4.16.0-rc6-686 (4.16~rc6-1~exp1); sid: 4.16.0-2-686 (4.16.12-1); buster: 4.16.0-2-686 (4.16.12-1); stretch-backports: 4.16.0-0.bpo.1-686-pae (4.16.5-1~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.9.0-6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1); jessie-backports: 4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 3.16.0-6-686-pae (3.16.56-1+deb8u1); wheezy-backports:
16:09<judd>3.16.0-0.bpo.4-686-pae (3.16.39-1+deb8u1~bpo70+1); wheezy: 3.2.0-6-686-pae (3.2.102-1)
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16:11<rob_debian>hi petn-randall, thanks for attention, but that't not my doubt. I'd like to know if I have to apply any specific configuration to make debian able to upgrade kernel whenever I use 'apt-get upgrade' command
16:11<rob_debian>I use it, but kernel version and release doesn't change to newest backports version available
16:13<somiaj>install the metapackage from stretch-backports and it should keep you up to date with the current stretch backports kernel.
16:13<jimpop>apt-get dist-upgrade?
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16:14<somiaj>an yes, use dist-upgrade, or use apt
16:14<rob_debian>I use both 'apt-get dist-upgrade && apt-get upgrade' here, jimpop
16:14<annadane>in general that's not the order you want to do it in
16:14<annadane>do upgrade first, then dist-upgrade
16:15<somiaj>or just dist-upgrade, upgrade after dist-upgrade won't do anything
16:15<jimpop>apt-get update; apt-get upgrade; apt-get dist-upgrade
16:15<jimpop>^^ rob_debian
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16:16<rob_debian>hi annadane. let me see if I've been making any incoherence here: apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade && apt-get upgrade'. so this sequence is wrong...:(
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16:17<annadane>for debian stable as somiaj said you likely don't even have to do upgrade and dist-upgrade, just dist-upgrade will suffice
16:17<somiaj>rob_debian: read the man page for apt-get and figure out exactly what each command does.
16:17<annadane>it's a different story in sid (testing?) with the dependency mess it entails
16:18<rob_debian>ok, annadane, thanks for attention :)
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17:57<linuxuser>hello guys
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17:57<linuxuser>looking for "support" for debian stretch
17:58<linuxuser>Anybody has system crash when adjusting displays in cinnamon?
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17:58<annadane>linuxuser, i guess a good first place to start is ~/.xsession-errors
17:59<annadane>other than that, i'm sure someone more knowledgeable than me can probably answer it better
17:59<rob_debian>please, annadane, is this command valid to any de, including mate ?
18:00<annadane>rob_debian, what command?
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18:01<linuxuser>ok so a whole bunch of errors, not much that I understand
18:01<rob_debian>oh, so... according your answer, my question wasn't correct...~/.xsession-errors is not a command...
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18:02<linuxuser>about 200 theme parsing error
18:03<annadane>you can try pasting it to paste.debian.net and we can look at it
18:03<annadane>.xsession-errors is a hidden file in the user's home directory
18:05<linuxuser>ok, give me a few seconds
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18:06<annadane>i'm not sure why you'd get a crash just from adjusting displays, that's really weird
18:06<annadane>unless the graphics card is terrible, which, if it's nvidia...
18:06<linuxuser>I know
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18:23<linuxuser>paste.debian.net loads forever
18:24<tomg>it's working okay for me
18:24<linuxuser>01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: NVIDIA Corporation GF119 [GeForce GT 520] (rev a1)
18:24<linuxuser>so ya it is nvidia
18:25<annadane>so maybe it's because nouveau just sucks
18:25<linuxuser>I have non-free in the repos
18:25<linuxuser>but ya I see that nvidia is not that great
18:26<linuxuser>site still loading, not my net connection
18:26<annadane>nouveau is better programmed in general but nvidia has the power behind it
18:27<linuxuser>but ok whatever, I just wont plug in a 2nd display for now, thank you guys for trying to help!
18:27<annadane>nvidia refuses to work with nouveau so unfortunately people who haven't installed the proprietary blob are prone to all sorts of crashes
18:27<annadane>but not sure whether that's actually the issue here or not
18:27<linuxuser>is there some sort of command to check what drivers im using for the graphics card?
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18:28<annadane>i think what you're looking for is update-alternatives --config glx
18:28<annadane>there's probably another way also
18:28<annadane>sorry for not being more helpful
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18:29<linuxuser>thats enough, im not looking for an easy do this do that, Id be on ubuntu haha
18:30<linuxuser>Thanks for your time annadane, I wish you a good day
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18:33<linuxuser>btw I am using nouveau drivers, thats probably why
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18:38<ach>!irl
18:38<dpkg>extra, extra, read all about it, irl is In Real Life, and a really good way to piss off your SO.
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18:49<irl>hello
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18:49<rob_debian>please, what's exactly irl ?
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18:49<rob_debian>in real life ?
18:49<irl>irl is irl irl
18:50<rob_debian>yes, irl, but still not clear for me here....
18:50<annadane>irl is an acronym standing for In Real life
18:51*irl is an acronym
18:51<rob_debian>yes, annadane, understood now
18:51<rob_debian>thank you ;)
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21:26<kyler>can someone help me setup wifi through command line? I'm new to linux and got stuck without a gui
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21:28<somiaj>kyler: ip a -- first do you see your wifi card (sometimes it needs non-free firmware), second, if you use network manager, there is a cli client and ncurses client for network-manager
21:28<somiaj>other wise, check out the interfaces file
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21:33<jc>is wicd part of the default installation?
21:33<bremner>doubt it
21:33<annadane>don't think so, no
21:34<somiaj>I don't think any network configuration tool outside the interfaces file and ip and the various new tools are 'default', though network-manager gets pulled in with many de's
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21:34<jc>wicd might be nice for cases like this.
21:35<b17>kyler: stuck without a gui is fun if you have the time.
21:36<kyler>Yeah I was still trying to figure stuff out looking at guides and they're having me use iwconfig and i keep reciving a "command not found" response
21:36<somiaj>jc: don't see why, no gui?
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21:36<annadane>maybe needs root? not sure
21:36<somiaj>kyler: did you ever have a gui? You may want to start out slow, first 'ip a' -- do you see your wireless inteface (making sure you don't need non-free firmware)
21:37<b17>yeah iwconfig is in wireless-tools i think it;s not included anymore, use iw command
21:37<jc>it uses ncurses
21:38<somiaj>jc: ahh, network-manager has a ncurses client too, though I think what matters is what kyler has installed.
21:38<kyler>command also not found
21:38<somiaj>kyler: the command ip is not found?
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21:41<kyler>ther's two options for me
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21:43<somiaj>kyler: in the ip a output? What is the name of the devices 'lo' should be one, what is the second.
21:44<kyler>enp0s25
21:44<kyler>lo is the first though
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21:48<b17>the third starts with a w?
21:49<kyler>i don't have a third listed
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21:50<b17>needs firmware
21:50<jc>any way to connect temporarily with a cable?
21:52<kyler>I only have the one connected to my router
21:53<kyler>will connecting with a cable give me a connection automatically to install stuff or will i still need to configure it?
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21:54<jc>it will if you install while it's connected. you can look in your interfaces file to see if it's set up. if not, it's easy to do.
21:55<b17>yeah plug it in
21:56<b17>it's a few steps, make sure sources.list is right, edit a file or two and install some firmware.
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22:01<somiaj>most likely you have allow-hotplug on the wired device and plugging it in will bring it up.
22:01<kyler>would i be able to install the files i need onto a usb drive and install them off of that?
22:01<somiaj>if not we can easily help you setup an interfaces file to bring up your wird device.
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22:04<b17>kyler: yeah if you know the right firmware pkg you can transfer and install it without network
22:06<somiaj>though using your wired connection and just to this all with apt, and install a gui might be the easiest (could skip the configuring the wifi by hand)
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22:07<kyler>so then i could configure in the desktop right?
22:07<somiaj>correct
22:08<jc>as root, "nano /etc/network/interfaces" and add the two lines "allow-hotplug enp0s25" and "iface enp0s25 inet dhcp" (without the quotes). then:
22:08<jc>ifup enp0s25
22:09<somiaj>the allow-hotplug should bring it up automatically when it is plugged in and not need the ifup line.
22:09<jc>oh, ok.
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22:16<jc>assuming that works (test with ping), you'll need to edit /etc/apt/sources.list and tell it which repos to use.
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23:01<lhvf>Hi, Everyone! I would like to state today that now Debian 7 (codename Wheezy), is going to be archived gradually, and now will be supported and handled by ELTS (Extended LTS).
23:02<lhvf>Reference link: https://wiki.debian.org/LTS/Extended
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23:03-!-tomg is "*Unknown*" on #debian #debian-next @#debian-support @#initfreedom
23:04<annadane>wait, there's an ELTS?
23:05<annadane>huh.
23:05<somiaj>its new, kinda like LTS, and it appears is unoffical, but basically there is funding to keep wheezy around and secure for servers.
23:06<lhvf>annadane : Yes, according to what I have undestood until now. Bu it's Unofficial, provided by https://freexian.com/
23:06<lhvf>*But
23:06<lhvf>*understood
23:06<annadane>well, LTS itself is basically unofficial too
23:07<annadane>AFAIK
23:07<somiaj>This seems different, LTS was using debian servers, this is borderline 'based on debian'
23:07<annadane>i never used wheezy, my first debian experience was jessie
23:07<annadane>my greybeard is significantly shorter
23:08*jc laffs
23:09<lhvf>My first Bug Report, as Ben Hutchings Kernel 3.2 Maintainer states: (https://www.kernel.org/category/releases.html), is not important, and won't to be fixed:
23:09<lhvf>https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=894180
23:09<judd>Bug http://bugs.debian.org/894180 in src:linux (closed): «util-linux: Possible still present Bug on "Debian 7/Wheezy" w/ dmesg command on a "SE-208DB/TSBS" External ODD»; severity: minor; opened: 2018-03-27; last modified: 2018-05-30.
23:10<somiaj>not surprised, and seems freexian is only supporting the packages used by its sponsors, which are most likely companies not wanting to upgrade from wheezy.
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23:11<somiaj>also appears that the 3.2 kernel is no longer supported
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23:18<lhvf>No chance to process new Bugs on Debian Wheezy right now? If, as my Bug Report was archived, it don't have possibility to be re-opened and processed by Freexian?
23:19<lhvf>Jessie, could have the possibility to have some attention, for GPU Lockups? Many Models of my Motherboard Controller are affected, and don't remember the exact name of this.
23:20<lhvf>NVIDIA Board Controller*
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23:21<lhvf>Fedora Project has beem reported, and issued with GRUB parameters Patches, how to make more stable the experience with 3.7+ Kernel Systems, on Bugzilla and Freedesktop
23:21*annadane whistles and upgrades sid
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23:26<lhvf>Linux Mint on its Wiki advices to users to use some parameters on GRUB to avoid GPU Freezes for NVIDIA Graphics Cards.
23:27<annadane>reeeeeally. i'd be interested in knowing what they are, in case i decide to tempt fate with nouveau + kde again
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23:30<lhvf>In regard to what was being discussed yesterday, I have a short Video about the "Blinking Blue Led Light" on a LED (the mine is CRT) LG Monitor, with a Professional doing a fix on the Hardware.
23:32<lhvf>annadane : I don't like old versions of KDE. They are heavy and unstable, and crashes, if 'forced'. My father (the old Admin, before I've received authotization to invade GRUB) that preferred KDE as default Default Display Manager.
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23:34<annadane>it's pretty unnecessary for my use case
23:34<annadane>also feels a bit too enterpris-ey
23:34<lhvf>Nowadays, KDE is lighter than new GNOME versions, that I'd rather prefer on the top, for the Debian (refined, and more configured than the Ubuntu in all of my experience with Debian based or derived Distros).
23:34<somiaj>lhvf: jessie is entering LTS support, and desktop (gpu lockups) aren't quite the goal of lts.
23:35<somiaj>lhvf: I have had good luck with nvidia cards + the non-free driver. The two times int he past I had hard lock ups with them, they both turned out to be hardware related, and the compnay replaced my video card.
23:36<annadane>my problem with running KDE in sid (though stable does have 5.8, pretty decent) is keeping track of all the qt dependencies
23:36<annadane>but i also just don't like it all that muc
23:36<annadane>h
23:37<somiaj>lhvf: but you seem to have an edge case, which is hard to get support. The best chance of getting actualy support and bugs fixed is using buster. Maybe some support in stretch, depending on if they can reproduce the bug and how wide spread it is.
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23:38<annadane>god damn nouveau. when i get a new PC i am ditching nvidia immediately
23:39<somiaj>Yea, if not wanting to use the non-free drivers, I woudln't use nvidia either. I use intel GPU's on all my machines except my main desktop, which I use for gaming.
23:40<somiaj>nouveau is getting better, but still kinda hit and miss what cards it supports well.
23:40<lhvf>I use only GNOME Fallback here, and on Debian, I've a great experience with it. Don't like GNOME Shell, unless I need something with the same. I will migrate to Flashback, and use various Desktops on Jessie, including (some black and read, or green and black occurred to the variety of Desktops installed):
23:41<lhvf>(MATE, Cinnamon, GNOME Classic, GNOME Shell and GNOME Flashback). KDE is even more unstable with Nouveau Gallium.
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23:41<somiaj>I find all DE's annoying and just stick to the same wm setup I have had for 10+ years now, speaking of which its fvwm's 25th birthday.
23:42<lhvf>KDE won't work in the past with Debian 8.2 with my GeForce 7025 / nForce 630a.
23:42<coruja>somiaj, quite the same here with openbox ;)
23:42<annadane>i3 is fairly decent
23:42<coruja>used to run lxde for a while
23:43<somiaj>coruja: which is just openbox + some preconfigured stuff.
23:44<coruja>unnecessary stuff mostly ;)
23:44<somiaj>yea, I find it better to start out with the minimial setup and install/configure only the stuff you use.
23:44<annadane>i kind of agree though, DE's feel clunky
23:45<somiaj>but it requires time, and some just want to install their system and have all the tools already avaiable, and not configure things.
23:45<annadane>reddit.com/r/unixporn, find something you like, done
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23:46<lhvf>But with MultiSystem (http://liveusb.info/dotclear/index.php?pages/install), I've had a better experience with Debian-Live 8.9 on my last tests, also with many minutes of ininterrupt functionality, using NVIDIA, Nouveau Gallium Linux Kernel Drivers, and my problematic Graphic Card Model. Was faster, and fluid, all on a Class 10 SD Card.
23:46<annadane>then there's the extremely minimal WMs like sawfish and dwm where you can customize the entire behavior of everything
23:46<annadane>the whole nouveau/nvidia thing sucks in general, best just to buy AMD these days
23:47<annadane>i wish i knew that before i bought my system
23:47<coruja>intel here too
23:47<coruja>quite ancient though ;)
23:48<annadane>i think i'll basically stick to i3, i know it well enough at this point and being tiling has advantages of not wasting time with the mouse
23:48<somiaj>and here I'm wanting to get a newer nvidia card....but they are to expensive due to cuda
23:48<annadane>just wish every window was so responsive to keyboard shortcuts
23:48<annadane>then i could basically never touch the mouse
23:48<somiaj>get a wm that can configure all of that.
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23:50<annadane>i have MATE installed anyway because EOM is a good image viewer and atril is a good PDF viewer
23:50<annadane>mate-terminal is also nice
23:51<somiaj>you can use those without mate installed
23:51<annadane>yeah, i know
23:51<lhvf>annadane : AMDGPU (→ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMDGPUis just for only some models. And AMD delays to release new drivers for Catalyst with frequency.
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23:52<lhvf>*→ (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMDGPU )
23:52<annadane>a lot of people who use i3 say it's ruined everything else for them, the mouse just feels so sluggish
23:54<somiaj>catalyst is mostly dead, radeon or amdgpu are the choices in debian, and they both work okay. If going the open driver route, they are decent drivers, but most require non-free firmware
23:54<annadane>i *guess* i can use the proprietary nvidia drivers, i just don't like the closed source aspect of it
23:54<lhvf>Recently, on my visits on DistroWatch the Download ranking was: the top first is Linux Mint. After is Manjaro, next Debian, and last Ubuntu.
23:54<annadane>also if it breaks under linux there's less suupport for it
23:54<annadane>support8
23:54<annadane>*
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23:56<annadane>i compromised on installing the microcode but that's about it and you're not going to get much better before free hardware, which should happen in about 2030 or so
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23:57<lhvf>https://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=popularity (now the things changed: First on the top is Linux Mint or Manjaro dominating the users download, basically newbies or begginers).
23:57<annadane>well, distrowatch itself is misleading, it's based on page views
23:57<annadane>practical download stats are impossinle
23:59<drakonis>is there a way to reinstall while purging them all?
23:59<annadane>purging all what?
---Logclosed Sat Jun 02 00:00:04 2018