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#debian IRC Logs for 2018-06-07

---Logopened Thu Jun 07 00:00:04 2018
---Daychanged Thu Jun 07 2018
00:00<btcusr>i asked another debian developer on irc this but would like a second opinion.
00:00<btcusr>i suggested to the tails operating system (based on debian) to increase PAM iteration counts
00:00<btcusr>they said that i should get the default changed upstream in debian. however the other developer i asked said that wouldn't be possible because 500-1000ms authentication for PAM is unacceptable for multi-user environments
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00:01<btcusr>is this true, or is upstream debian the right place to increase PAM iteration counts to 0.5-1 second?
00:01<Thespen>Hmm, why isn't synaptic installed on my new 9.4 install? I have some program called apper :/
00:02<annadane>Thespen, neither apper nor synaptic are installed by default so it depends on what desktop you installed
00:02<somiaj>If you want to use synaptic just install it. Unsure what sort of things the desktops install, I just use apt myself.
00:02<annadane>you can "aptitude why apper"
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00:02<btcusr>(is this the wrong place to ask about development questions?)
00:03<annadane>btcusr, i'd perhaps try #debian-devel
00:03<Thespen>Is apt better than synaptic?
00:03<somiaj>btcusr: this channel doesn't have too man DD's. That to me sounds like a wishlist bug, but unsure on the details on if debian would want to make such a modification, or as you said they don't, leaving downstream to provide a patch if they want it.
00:03<btcusr>thanks
00:03<somiaj>btcusr: I think this type of stuff is sometimes better asked on teh mailing lists too.
00:03<annadane>better is subjective... i just prefer apt
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00:03<Thespen>ah
00:04<annadane>learning the CLI tools is better in the long run anyway
00:04<Thespen>Do you mean you just use apt from the command line or does apt have a gui based manager too?
00:04<annadane>i don't know of any GUI frontends because i don't use them, but yes, *i* use it from the command line
00:05<Thespen>Ah right on
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00:05<annadane>and yes, just because you have apper doesn't mean you can't later install synaptic if you want
00:05<Thespen>hmm it's asking for a disk to install synaptic when I type apt-get install synaptic :/
00:06<annadane>look in your /etc/apt/sources.list for cd-rom entries and comment them out
00:06<annadane>in other words put a # at the start of the line
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00:06<Thespen>Right on, thanks.
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00:08<annadane>(and then apt update)
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00:09<Thespen>Oops, I commented them out and then used apt-get install synaptic
00:09<Thespen>It isntalled fine though
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02:19<anak>hello
02:19<anak>?
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04:19<NicolaiVdS>hello i'm having a issue with a debian vps when i ssh into it with a key i see the motd and then the connection is dropped this is the out put of 'ssh -vvv' https://pastebin.com/c2rgxH1Y
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04:23<peter1138>NicolaiVdS, has it worked before?
04:24<NicolaiVdS>yes last night it was working
04:24<peter1138>NicolaiVdS, ok, judging by the arguments, I would guess that "r2" is a cryptominer, and your vps has been exploited.
04:24<NicolaiVdS>hmm strange
04:25<NicolaiVdS>so something is preventing root to login
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04:26<NicolaiVdS>what i notice is that apache2 wont start on boot also
04:27<lordievader>NicolaiVdS: What happens when you try to execute `bash` right away? (`ssh <host> bash`)
04:27-!-annadane [~annadane@mtrlpq5302w-lp140-01-69-156-33-63.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
04:28<peter1138>Hmm, actually the arguments correspond to something called radare
04:28<peter1138>https://radare.gitbooks.io/radare2book/content/introduction/commandline_flags.html
04:29<peter1138>Which is something for reverse engineering.
04:30<NicolaiVdS>this is with the bash option
04:30<NicolaiVdS>https://pastebin.com/kjndF9sD
04:31<NicolaiVdS>peter1138: can that be prevent from root login
04:31<peter1138>Try with ssh <host> -t bash
04:32<peter1138>Else you don't get a tty so you can't use it.
04:32-!-Human_G33k [~HumanG33k@62.147.242.8] has joined #debian
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04:32<NicolaiVdS>peter1138: https://pastebin.com/xJYdqTvJ
04:33<lordievader>NicolaiVdS: Maybe the .bashrc is messed up. Try `sh`.
04:34<NicolaiVdS>https://pastebin.com/j75SQVnb
04:35<peter1138>I think "Missing file to open" maybe coming from this r2 program.
04:37<peter1138>ssh spawns your shell for your when you specify a command, so it'll still be there.
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04:38<NicolaiVdS>ok i can get root access to the server thru a serial console
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04:39<NicolaiVdS>and when i do bash in my serial console i get this
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04:39<NicolaiVdS>root@jailed:/# bash root@jailed:/#
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04:40<peter1138>Well yeah, bash is the shell so you opened another shell.
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04:41<peter1138>NicolaiVdS, now you check your log files to see what has gone wrong.
04:42<NicolaiVdS>what log files peter1138
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04:44<peter1138>Any?
04:44<peter1138>Ok, so do you have any data backups?
04:45<peter1138>(Or any data that needs to be backed up)
04:45<NicolaiVdS>no its a fresh server
04:45-!-stoffepojken [znc@000133f5.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:45<NicolaiVdS>and yets a lot of data
04:45-!-thescientist [~thescient@87.196.53.214] has joined #debian
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04:46<peter1138>A fresh server with lots of data but no backups? Hmm.
04:46<peter1138>My fresh servers tend to have nothing on them.
04:46<peter1138>Backups get set up before theres ever any data.
04:46-!-G7IVF [~chris@paddington.it.ox.ac.uk] has joined #debian
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04:46<NicolaiVdS>well there is a webdav backup
04:46<NicolaiVdS>but need to verify
04:47<NicolaiVdS>leme gues reinstall ?
04:47<peter1138>Well, anyway, check the logs, see what happened. You probably want to reinstall, but you need to know what happened otherwise it will just happen again.
04:47<NicolaiVdS>ok
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05:07<Guest4897>kljk
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05:08-!-Giacomo [~utente@ip-145-70.sn3.clouditalia.com] has joined #debian
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05:08<Giacomo>ciao
05:08<Giacomo>ciao
05:08<Guest4897>klk
05:08<Giacomo>mi piace il cazzo
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05:09-!-Giacomo [~utente@ip-145-70.sn3.clouditalia.com] has quit []
05:09<Guest4897>mesto di cuezo mama
05:10-!-Giacomo [~utente@ip-145-70.sn3.clouditalia.com] has joined #debian
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05:10<Giacomo>ciao Prof!
05:10<Guest4897>loko
05:10<Giacomo>chi sei?
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05:10<Guest4897>ciao
05:10<duclicsic>!chat
05:10<dpkg>This is not a chat channel, this is a Debian user support channel. Unless you have a Debian support question, please chat elsewhere, like #debian-offtopic, or #moocows on irc.oftc.net or ##chat on irc.freenode.net.
05:10<Guest4897>madafakasssss
05:10<Giacomo>dai chi sei?
05:11<lonebird>ddos attact has failed for me
05:11<lonebird>haha
05:11<Guest4897>chupa mi pinga
05:11<lonebird>??
05:11<lonebird>what
05:11<Guest4897>hello
05:11<Giacomo>im italian
05:11<lonebird>hey
05:11<Guest4897>what is this
05:11<lonebird>ok good
05:11<Guest4897>my friend
05:11<duclicsic>Guest4897: this channel is english only, it is also not a chat channel.
05:11<Guest4897>im spanish
05:12<Giacomo>ok
05:12<lonebird>bye bye
05:12<duclicsic>if you don't have a question about debian, please go elsewhere
05:12<Giacomo>bye
05:12<Guest4897>i never go aut
05:12-!-lonebird [~lonebird3@27.34.18.174] has quit []
05:12<Guest4897>im a crazy men
05:12<Giacomo>i like you my frien
05:12<Guest4897>how is your mather
05:12<petn-randall>!ot
05:12<dpkg>#debian is primarily a support channel for Debian users. Please keep the discussions in #debian on-topic and take longer discussions and non-support questions to #debian-offtopic. Imagine the chaos if each of the hundreds of people in the channel felt the need to wander off topic for a few minutes every day.
05:13<Guest4897>i like you giancomo
05:13<Guest4897>only english ?
05:13<grove>Guest4897 & Giacomo: Stop that off topic chat
05:13<duclicsic>funny how you get these random pairs/groups that join at about the same time and happen to get into a conversation despite acting like they don't know each other.
05:14<grove>(and if you have something to say that is ontopic, do so in english)
05:14<Anarka>destiny
05:14<Guest4897>i wANT NOT
05:14<Guest4897>FUCK YOU
05:14-!-mode/#debian [+o petn-randall] by ChanServ
05:14-!-Guest4897 was kicked from #debian by petn-randall [you should know better]
05:14-!-mode/#debian [+b *!*@80.73.147.59] by petn-randall
05:14<grove>!ops Guest4897
05:14<dpkg>Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, abrotman, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen, SynrG, jm_, somiaj, jelly, petn-randall: grove complains about a problem (see above)
05:14-!-mode/#debian [-o petn-randall] by petn-randall
05:14<petn-randall>grove: Too slow :)
05:14<dwfreed>2slo
05:14<petn-randall>jinx
05:14<Giacomo>i fuck you hard
05:14<grove>petn-randall: Yeah, I see
05:15-!-mode/#debian [+o petn-randall] by ChanServ
05:15-!-Giacomo was kicked from #debian by petn-randall [you should know better]
05:15-!-mode/#debian [+b *!*@ip-145-70.sn3.clouditalia.com] by petn-randall
05:15-!-mode/#debian [-o petn-randall] by petn-randall
05:15<grove>This time I chose not to call you, as I guessed you were still here to see
05:15<dwfreed>jup
05:15<dwfreed>petn-randall was just faster than me
05:16<grove>Now we are about to go off-topic, maybe we should shut up before petn-randall kicks us
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05:19<petn-randall>( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
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06:48<arno>he
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07:15<scootergrisen>How is it i see how well Debian is translated on the website?
07:16<scootergrisen>Think i found it
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07:24<nezos>hi, I bought a new keyboard (Logitech K120) and after connecting I changed the keyboard setup to Generic 105 (international). I can correctly type things but my problem is that my keyboard freezes or it seems like a key is continuously pressed. This happens after keep using it and especially pressing the Super button many times. I checked syslog but I couldn't find anything there. Any ideas?
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08:52<whoami>oi
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09:15<parrot>hola
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09:43<Synthea>Someone can help me with powerdevil killing himself?
09:43<Synthea>(kde)
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09:44<Synthea>Please, often I cannot even see the battery status
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09:45<flip768>would some Debian developer like to do a NMU? "fsvs" has a new upstream version, a simple re-upload should be fine (it gets developed in Debian)
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10:10<petn-randall>flip768: That's not how things work. You can however file a wishlist bug to package the newer version.
10:14<flip768>petn-randall: yeah, a RFP, I know. But I figured asking here won't hurt...
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10:44<petn-randall>flip768: A RFP is only for software that hasn't been packaged yet.
10:44<petn-randall>!rfp
10:44<dpkg>Request For Package (RFP) is the way to ask for a piece of software to be included in Debian. See http://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp, the section on that page "Adding new entries with "reportbug"" is a good place to start. Technically, a RFP is a wishlist bug filed against "wnpp" with a title beginning "RFP: ", ask me about <wnpp>. The best way of getting software packaged is to do it yourself: ask me about <nmg>.
10:45-!-hele_ [~hele@88-115-23-86.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #debian
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10:56<vitm2100>hola
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10:57<somiaj>!es
10:57<dpkg>Este canal es de soporte técnico en Inglés para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en Español, puede ingresar en #debian-es tecleando /join #debian-es en la línea de chat.
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11:05<Synthea>hola (ironically)
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11:47-!-domovoy is "realname" on #debian #debian-derivatives
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12:00-!-k-man is "Jason Lewis http://emacstragic.net" on #debian
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12:12<tuanhtrng>exit
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12:19-!-kameloso^^ is " kameloso!" on @#garderoben #debian
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12:33<carl>Hi I am having problem with KDE, cant search an application from the search bar in the Kde menu, same problem when I try to put my password to open a program that need it like Synaptics, someone of you know how to solve this issue? No problems instead writing on the Terminal, browsers, notepad...
12:33<carl>I have debian stretch 64bit, the last stable version
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12:41-!-bartoc is "Charles Barto" on #debian #ovirt
12:41-!-bartoc is now known as Demos
12:42-!-sahithi-ihtihas [~quassel@49.206.86.3] has joined #debian
12:42-!-sahithi-ihtihas is "Sahithi Yarlagadda" on #freedombox #debian
12:43-!-t3chn0 [~t3chn0@00027171.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
12:43-!-t3chn0 is "Ubi dubium ibi libertas" on #debian-offtopic #debian-es #debian-devel-es #tor #debian
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12:45-!-jhutchins_wk is "Jonathan Hutchins" on #oftc #debian
12:45<tda>make sure baloo is installed. not sure on the exact package name
12:48<carl>I will check
12:49-!-quentusrex [~quentusre@2602:4b:ac31:7700:3dc5:28b4:ef53:15fc] has joined #debian
12:49-!-quentusrex is "William King" on #debian
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12:49-!-ldnunes is "realname" on #debian #qemu #debian-br #openstack-infra #oftc
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12:49-!-n4m3s1s is "realname" on #debian
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12:50<carl>thanks
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12:51-!-kameloso is " kameloso!" on #virt #tor #qemu #osm #linode #garderoben #fsci #debian-next #debian #ceph #Qubes_OS
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12:58-!-Strife89 is "Michael Carr" on #debian #debian-next
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13:02-!-mr_byt3s is "realname" on #debian #debian-next
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13:08-!-nowhereman is "Pierre Thierry" on #concatenative #emacs #git #erights #lisp #debian-kde #debian
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13:12-!-alephnull is "Alok G Singh" on #debian-next #moocows #debian #bitlbee
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13:14-!-psychicist is "psychicist" on #gentoo #slackware #debian #linux @#dragonflybsd #NetBSD #OpenBSD #freebsd #kernelnewbies #kvm #qemu #javafx #c++ #C #openjdk #java
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13:36-!-dboles is "dboles" on #debian #debian-gnome
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13:39-!-isagar is "I Sagar" on #debian-in #hamara #debian-diaspora #debian-mobile #debian #debian-live #debian-azure #debian-boot #libindic #debian-gnukhata #debian-ruby #debian-til #debian-browserify #debian-desktop
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13:54-!-drakonis is "realname" on #debian-offtopic #debian-games #debian-gaming #debian-devel-changes #debian-til #debian #debian-next #debian-reproducible #reproducible-builds
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13:55-!-dxld is "dxld" on #debian-boot #debian #realraum #multiarch #debian-haskell #debian-hams #bcache
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14:00-!-Strife1989 is "Michael Carr" on #debian #debian-next
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14:08-!-hele_ is "hele" on #debian-next #debian-kde #debian
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14:32<Thespen>So I am trying to install the nvidia proprietary drivers on Debian 9.4 per the wiki page: https://wiki.debian.org/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers#Debian_9_.22Stretch.22
14:33-!-drabard [systemd-ti@host-213-5-210-87.wtvk.pl] has joined #debian
14:33-!-drabard is "drabard" on #debian
14:33-!-Strife89 [~quassel@adsl-98-80-183-228.mcn.bellsouth.net] has joined #debian
14:33-!-Strife89 is "Michael Carr" on #debian #debian-next
14:34<Thespen>And I am getting an error stating that "Some packages could not be installed., This may mean that you havbe requested an impossible situation or if you are using the unstable distribution that some required packages have not yet been created"
14:35-!-tdy4 [~tdy@mobile-130-126-255-147.near.illinois.edu] has joined #debian
14:35-!-tdy4 is "tdy" on #debian #awesome
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14:37<tda>is that the current installer? stretch hasn't been unstable for a while now
14:38<retrospectacus>!bat
14:38<dpkg>In order to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, apt or aptitude we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use http://paste.debian.net/ to provide us with this information. Also ask me about <localized errors>.
14:40-!-bluca [~bluca@2a00:23c5:be9a:5200:ce4c:82c0:d567:ecbb] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
14:41<rounnus_>Client: HexChat 2.12.4 • OS: Debian 9.4 • CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i3-6006U CPU @ 2.00GHz (2.00GHz) • Memory: Physical: 3.7 GiB Total (2.1 GiB Free) Swap: 3.8 GiB Total (3.2 GiB Free) • Storage: 75.7 GB / 230.5 GB (154.9 GB Free) • VGA: Intel Corporation HD Graphics 520 @ Intel Corporation Skylake Host Bridge/DRAM Registers • Uptime: 40m 52s
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14:46-!-benages [~Thunderbi@208.26.19.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #debian
14:46-!-benages is "benages" on #debian-es #debian-next #debian
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14:49<thespen_>Here is the command I used: apt-get install -t stretch-backports nvidia-driver
14:49-!-sigimac [~sigsig@dialup-208-98-133-190.fmtc.com] has joined #debian
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14:50<thespen_>here is the output:
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14:50<thespen_>Reading package lists... Done
14:50<thespen_>Building dependency tree
14:50<thespen_>Reading state information... Done
14:50<thespen_>Some packages could not be installed. This may mean that you have
14:50<thespen_>requested an impossible situation or if you are using the unstable
14:50<thespen_>distribution that some required packages have not yet been created
14:50<thespen_>or been moved out of Incoming.
14:50<thespen_>The following information may help to resolve the situation:
14:50<blast007>!paste
14:50<dpkg>Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use: http://paste.debian.net/ http://pastie.org/ or http://picpaste.com/ for pics. Use wikisend.com for large files (think tar.gz) up to 100MB. Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <wgetpaste>.
14:50<thespen_>The following packages have unmet dependencies:
14:50<thespen_> nvidia-driver : PreDepends: nvidia-installer-cleanup but it is not installable
14:50<thespen_> PreDepends: nvidia-legacy-check (>= 343) but it is not going to be installed
14:50<thespen_> Depends: nvidia-driver-libs (= 390.48-2~bpo9+3) but it is not going to be installed or
14:50<thespen_> nvidia-driver-libs-nonglvnd (= 390.48-2~bpo9+3) but it is not going to be installed
14:50<thespen_> Depends: nvidia-driver-bin (= 390.48-2~bpo9+3) but it is not going to be installed
14:50<thespen_> Depends: xserver-xorg-video-nvidia (= 390.48-2~bpo9+3) but it is not going to be installed
14:50<thespen_> Depends: nvidia-vdpau-driver (= 390.48-2~bpo9+3) but it is not going to be installed
14:50<thespen_> Depends: nvidia-alternative (= 390.48-2~bpo9+3) but it is not going to be installed
14:50<thespen_> Depends: nvidia-kernel-dkms (= 390.48-2~bpo9+3) but it is not going to be installed or
14:50<thespen_> nvidia-kernel-390.48
14:50<blast007>...
14:50<thespen_> Depends: nvidia-support but it is not installable
14:50<thespen_> Recommends: nvidia-settings (>= 390) but it is not going to be installed
14:50<annadane>thespen_, paste.debian.net
14:50<thespen_> Recommends: nvidia-persistenced but it is not going to be installed
14:50<thespen_>E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
14:51<thespen_>http://paste.debian.net/1028381/
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14:51<annadane>i'm astonished you avoided a bot kick
14:51<thespen_>oops
14:51<blast007>only because his client buffered it
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14:52<thespen_>I should have known better
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14:55<thespen_>output of apt-cache policy command: http://paste.debian.net/
14:56<thespen_>All I'm trying to do is install the Nvidia proprietary drivers using the instructions from the Debian wiki.
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14:57<annadane>you didn't actually link to apt-cache policy
14:57<thespen_>oops
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14:58<thespen_>http://paste.debian.net/1028382/
14:58<retrospectacus>we need the output of "apt-cache policy".
14:58<retrospectacus>number 3 from the robot's instruction
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14:59<thespen_>sorry here it is: http://paste.debian.net/1028383/
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15:00<retrospectacus>you are missing "contrib" from your http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian line in sources.list
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15:01<thespen_>so edit sources.list and apt-update and try the nvidia backports command again?
15:01<retrospectacus>yep
15:04<thespen_>thank you, the driver is installing now
15:05<retrospectacus>dpkg: congratulate thespen_
15:05<dpkg>Hugs & Puppies thespen_, you did it!
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15:05<thespen_>Haha, thanks ;D
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15:06<thespen_>I've been using Debian and Linux in general for the last 10 years but have now finally decided to make Linux the default OS on my desktop.
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15:08<thespen_>Coinciding coincidentally with me completing nuking the Windows partition (on a separate HDD even) by running the cp command on Debian. I've always heard that it could happen and been warned against it in tutorials but actually managed to overwrite my Windows partition yesterday :/
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15:08<annadane>right, this is why you check your lsblk entries carefully
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15:10<Thespen>lsblk?
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15:12<annadane>it will list your block devices and their sizes so you can see that /dev/sdb or whatever is your windows partition
15:12<annadane>(but it changes based on order the devices were mounted so it's better to check each time)
15:12<thespen_>Ah, right on. Yeah, I feel like such a nincompoop for finally doing a wipe with a super user terminal command like that
15:12<annadane>or like, --dry-run, which i think is an option cp has
15:13<thespen_>I've always tried so hard to avoid it. Admittedly last night looking back on things I can see myself fumbling around like a chimp.
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15:13<thespen_>what is --dry-run?
15:13<annadane>a few distros have cp aliased to cp -i
15:14<annadane>well, it enables you to see the output of an action without actually doing it
15:14<annadane>but actually with cp i don't know if that would help you or not if you didn't already know such and such partition was windows/whatever
15:14<thespen_>oh that's awesome
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15:15<annadane>man cp | grep --dry-run doesn't actually return anything so apparently that's not an option
15:15<annadane>some programs have it
15:15<thespen_>ah so that output would just show me the file name and the folder/drive it was transferred to?
15:15<annadane>or maybe you can't grep --
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15:15<annadane>right; useful for things like rsync
15:15<annadane>yeah, even grep dry doesn
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15:15<annadane>'t return anything so apparently that's not a thing with cp
15:15<annadane>but as i said it may be irrelevant anyway
15:17<annadane>but yeah, you can use cp -i for interactive
15:17<annadane>that said you generally shouldn't be using cp as root for common tasks
15:17<annadane>sorry for wall of text :P
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15:18<thespen_>It was because the debian iso was located on the windows partition which I have to access as root to mount the drive (the windows part was on a separate hdd)
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15:28<jhutchins_wk>I did a find /var/www/ -delete once...
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15:30<thespen_>what does that mean? you deleted var?
15:31<annadane>many people alias cp rm and mv to cp -i rm -i and mv -i respectly
15:31<annadane>good precaution
15:31<annadane>respectively*I
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15:31<annadane>respectively* *
15:32<annadane>must stop drinking on IRC
15:32<thespen_>lol
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15:32<thespen_>me too
15:32<annadane>rm doesn't have an "are you sure?"
15:32<annadane>once it's gone ...
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15:33<thespen_>yeah, I was always paranoid about rm, I guess I didn't allot the same gravitas to cp though :/
15:34<annadane>on that note, what some people will do is rm blah.thing or whatever you want to remove, but first replace rm with mv
15:34<annadane>so you move the things to a different folder/location/whatever you want to, and then validate you do actually want to remove it
15:35<annadane>some people refuse to rm at all and just use mv exclusively
15:35*dboles uses the -i aliases on the only machine where it really matters!
15:35<dboles>huh, that's interesting. a manual recycle bin...
15:35<annadane>i should set my aliases to that now that i'm thinking of it
15:35<thespen_>and -i is?"
15:35<annadane>interactive
15:35<annadane>prompt for confirmation
15:35<thespen_>ah that would have been helpful
15:36<dboles>as always, man rm is your friend!
15:36*Ouroboros whispers softly: 'snapshots'
15:36<dboles>yeah, backups are arguably the real answer, as it's all well and good to say you'll never accidentally get something wrong, but statistically we're all going to, eventually!
15:37<dboles>i mean, even with -i you could end up on autopilot and answer yes anyway without really meaning to
15:37<annadane>as someone who runs debian sid i probably should look into the whole btrfs snapshot thing before i screw myself
15:37<Ouroboros>dboles: that always happens eventually
15:38<annadane>and i probably should stop telling myself that i probably should do things because based on practical experience it doesn't actually happen
15:38<dboles>haha
15:38<thespen_>a snapshot of the whole hdd? kind of like a windows system restore?
15:38<dboles>i was just thinking i need to write a backup script or otherwise get something in place, but that it won't happen unless i sit there and get it all sorted out in one session
15:38<Ouroboros>at least -i protect against accidentally hitting enter before you are finished typing
15:39<dboles>until then i guess it's just copying all the code repos i care about to various spare drives :/
15:39<Ouroboros>thespen_: sure
15:40<annadane>thespen_, you can see what all these options and arguments do by reading man pages
15:40<Ouroboros>on my main file server, i have daily snapshots going back about 10 years... at least during the time that it was up
15:40<annadane>so for example type in your terminal, man cp
15:41<Ouroboros>they cost approximately 0 additional space because i never delete anything anyway
15:41<thespen_>do I append -i after the destination directory or after the name of the file?
15:41<annadane>doesn't matter
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15:43<thespen_>hmm, it's not giving me a yes or no prompt
15:44<thespen_>It just transfers the file to whatever directory I point it to
15:44<annadane>ah no, i guess it probably should be cp -i file destination
15:44<annadane>sorry
15:44<thespen_>mv new.txt -i /home/Documents
15:44<thespen_>is the command I used
15:45<jhutchins_wk>testi: Try mv -i
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15:45<annadane>(if i don't even know that, i *especially* should alias things to -i...)
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15:47<retrospectacus>it only asks for cofirmation if it will overwrite something
15:47<thespen_>apparently there is a Home and home folder and I moved the new.txt file to a file called Documents in the /home file instead of Home/Documents
15:47<thespen_>ah
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15:48<annadane>oh. right. i'm... just going to leave now
15:49<annadane>i'd probably urge thespen_, and myself, to read
15:49<annadane>!newcomer
15:49<dpkg>Welcome to Debian! Here's some resources to help you on your merry way: The Debian Handbook: https://debian-handbook.info/ Reference manual: https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ FAQ: https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-faq/ - reading https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian is also a very good idea.
15:49<thespen_>haha thank you
15:50<dboles>generally, switches (-i, --do-cool-thing, etc.) come before non-switch i.e. positional arguments such as filename
15:50<dboles>as always, there are exceptions, but that is the majority
15:51<Ouroboros>thespen_: wait, you have /home *and* /Home?
15:51<thespen_>Ah okay
15:51<dboles>some tools will let you put switches anywhere, but a lot won't (git is a main one that comes to mind), so it seems easier to assume that switches come first
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15:51<Ouroboros>and some tools have really messed up syntax where switches mean different things in different places
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15:51<dboles>yikes, haven't seen that in the wild!
15:52<Swixo>SAlut
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15:52<annadane>apt install foo -t --stretch-backports is a bad role model
15:52<annadane>!fr
15:52<dpkg>Pour l'aide en francais, veuillez rejoindre le canal #debian-fr. Francophone users: for help in french, please go to #debian-fr.
15:52<dboles>another random tip is that if you have cases where some filename or other positional arg you want to use might be ambiguous with a switch, you can try putting a -- between the args that you want to be switches (left of --) and those you don't (right of --)
15:53<dboles>as it is a common idiom to interpret that to mean 'stop trying to parse anything after this as a switch'
15:53<annadane>(that's not even the correct syntax...)
15:53<annadane>(drinking was a joke, but i may as well be)
15:53<thespen_>Ah, that's helpful to know too
15:53<Ouroboros>dboles: i don't recall a good example right now, but some tools have something like global and local options and arguments
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15:54<Ouroboros>dboles: and sometimes they are not even well separated or documented
15:55<jhutchins_wk>On the other hand, ls -a /foo -ld will work
15:55<Ouroboros>and yes, i was just going to mention --, it is pretty decent
15:55<jhutchins_wk>Then you have the BSD compatibles like ps.
15:55<dboles>*nix: where the rule is the exception that proves itself!
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15:57*dboles always forgets until the last minute that i want split screen and writes vim foo bar -O
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15:59<Ouroboros>does automatic mounting of luks volumes (in /etc/crypttab and /etc/fstab) just use cryptsetup?
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16:00<tda>lvm and mdadm will also be used if appropriate
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16:05<Ouroboros>is lvm what is inside luks volumes normally?
16:06<tda>sometimes. the main reason for that case is to have multple partitions on one drive encrypted with one key
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16:08<Ouroboros>just curious what the installer partition manager creates if there is only one partition inside
16:08<Ouroboros>or no partition
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16:09<tda>im more familiar with ubuntu, but it's default is / and swap
16:11<Ouroboros>no, i mean if i explicitly created one partition on the encrypted volume, is there still going to be some sort of partition table around that? i suppose that i can just examine it
16:12<tda>usually you cannot create a partition in an encrypted volume because it is already a partition. best to keep doing that for alignment
16:14<Ouroboros>so then by default there is just the actual partition (after the luks header)?
16:14<Ouroboros>so basically at offset=2MiB the actual fs begins
16:15<Ouroboros>err, well, i just conflated two things
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16:17<tda>luks creates its own header on the physical partition. not sure on the details at that point, but you use the luks device like an ordinary parition, using it as part of a volume group or putting fs on it
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16:17<Ouroboros>yes
16:18<tda>when i add additional encrypted drives, i do not bother with lvm. i format the luks device with ext4 or xfs
16:19<Ouroboros>the modern luks header is 2MiB for alignment reasons, the actual key data area may be somewhat smaller depending on encryption parameters
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16:21<Ouroboros>also, unrelated, sync is only for fs writes, correct? it is not necessary for raw block device writes, say using dd?
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16:28<tda>i believe it is because kernels switched to async io by default a while ago
16:31<jhutchins_wk>Ouroboros: That's my understanding, but it doesn't really hurt to do a sync before you yank a USB.
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16:35<tda>ime, if the os is still writing data, the safe remove option will fail
16:39<Ouroboros>i am also considering setting the sync option on all of the mounts, but i am not certain that it is worth it, especially considering that there are n intermediate layers above the physical device
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16:41<Ouroboros>probably best to just stick with journaling and not worry about it
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16:43<tda>yeah get a ups if it really bothers you. or use copy or rsync if you dont trust move
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16:48<Ouroboros>i have a ups at home (which has caused approximately as many power failures as it has prevented), but i don't trust the data center :P
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16:54<jhutchins_wk>I worked in a datacenter that was so redundant it had power feeds from two different plants, coming in from different directions. That, plus UPS, plus a generator.
16:58<Ouroboros>jhutchins_wk: none of that protects against some guy who flipped the wrong switch at the wrong time (as happened here one time) :P
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17:00<jhutchins_wk>That shield that goes over the Big Red Button is called a "Molly Guard". The system engineer brought his daughter Molly to the datacenter one weekend...
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17:21<Ouroboros>hm, how do i get the installer to load cryptsetup? will it load it once it gets to the partitioning menu if encrypted volumes are there?
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17:40<ais-admin_>yes if you choose the encrypted disk option its all automagic - it will ask you for a passphrase during setup which you will have to enter each boot
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17:50<Ouroboros>ais-admin: no, i mean that i already have encrypted volumes from the previous install, i need cryptsetup in the shell so that i can make some manual changes
17:51<ais-admin>oic - you're booting in rescue mode then?
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17:52<Ouroboros>no, just installer shell on tty2
17:52<Ouroboros>i suppose that there is also a way to manually load these modules
17:53<Ouroboros>i will just go to the partitioning menu and see what happens
17:53<ais-admin>the installer should give you an option to get a shell - from there you can do your cryptsetup commands to gain access to the existing volume
17:53<ais-admin>if the modules arent loaded then you can insmod them
17:53<Ouroboros>ais-admin: yeah, but cryptsetup is not available in the shell yet
17:54<ais-admin>the modules should be on the install media somewhere
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17:58<ais-admin>seems the latest netinst.iso image does contain the luks stuff so you should be prompted for access
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17:58<ais-admin>but dont take my word - just reading from the bugs mailing list
17:59<ais-admin>modprobe dm-crypt is what you need to load the module if it isnt already
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18:00<ais-admin>if your luks is in an lvm volume your have to do some extra stuff
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18:03<Ouroboros>i will just go to the partitioning menu and hopefully it will load everything and not overwrite anything yet :P
18:04<ais-admin>ok, be careful!
18:05<Ouroboros>i think that it doesn't overwrite anything until you do something like 'write changes to disk'
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18:06<ais-admin>correct
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18:07<ais-admin>you could download a live image iso and boot from that - less risky
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18:11<Ouroboros>too much work, so trying to figure out how to do everything using the intaller shell :P
18:13<rounnus_>Hello. My root terminal can only stand up once is anyone who know how to fix this bug?
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18:17<annadane>stand up once... not sure i understand the context
18:19<annadane>rounnus_, what do you mean?
18:19<rounnus_>open up*
18:19<rounnus_>sry my bad
18:19<annadane>oh, so you want to have concurrent root terminals open
18:20<annadane>well, i'm not sure how you do it, but which desktop are you using, or which root terminal
18:20<annadane>you also have access to 6 virtual terminals that you can be root in, control + alt + f1-f6
18:28<rounnus_>i don't want concurrent i mean i open root terminal, i close and i can't open again before the reboot.
18:30<annadane>ah. okay.
18:30<annadane>not sure what the issue is then, maybe someone knows
18:30<annadane>again though, which root terminal, different desktops have their own versions
18:31<Ouroboros>ais-admin: well, it has loaded partman-crypto etc and is on the partitioning menu, but so far it has not detected the encrypted volumes, and cryptsetup is still not available in the shell
18:31<Ouroboros>ais-admin: maybe i need to do 'configure encrypted volumes' now
18:32<ais-admin>I think that will wipe your disk
18:32<Ouroboros>there should be another set of menus after that :P
18:33<ais-admin>I think "configure encrypted volumes" really means "create encrypted volumes"
18:33<Ouroboros>anyway, there is nothing on the disk, worst case scenario is that i will lose a few days of work and have to reinstall again
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18:35<Ouroboros>i should have checksummed the disk before i started this part though
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18:36<ais-admin>in that case thats what I would do - just start over and get what you really wanted
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18:45<Ouroboros>ais-admin: well, it was not really clear how to do it in the main installation process
18:47<ais-admin>what is it that you are trying to do?
18:47<Ouroboros>ais-admin: the objective is to run some tune2fs commands on encrypted root after it is formatted, but the problem is that package installation begins immediately after it is formatted and it is still mounted after installation is finished, so there is no good place to do it
18:47<Ouroboros>i suppose that i can manually unmount it at the end, but that is also not very clean
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18:49<Ouroboros>and, btw, i just read through some bugs in detail, and apparently encrypted volume reuse is still broken in the stretch installer (after almost a decade?), but i may still be able to do what i need
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18:51<ais-admin>I'd get a live CD iso and boot from that - you'll be able to do anything you want - no worries.
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18:51<Ouroboros>yeah, that is the easy way :P
18:51<ais-admin>yup
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19:02<Ouroboros>ok, a few dangerous menus later, i finally have cryptsetup, and i believe that nothing bad happened yet
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19:05<ais-admin>really - nice
19:05<ais-admin>is the disk empty? :-)
19:11<Ouroboros>no idea yet :P
19:12<Ouroboros>you can probably just manually get anna to load cryptsetup instead
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19:13<Wolololol>what is a better media player than audacious?
19:13<Wolololol>(Linux)
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19:16<annadane>vlc, mpv?
19:16<annadane>Wolololol, ^
19:17<annadane>"better" depends on what you want
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19:23<jc>vlc does it all for me.
19:23<Wolololol>vlc is great for video but audio it lacks playlist mgmt
19:23<Wolololol>i like aimp but not seeing it on linux
19:24<Wolololol>better=nice categorized playlist mgr
19:24<annadane>i mean, i guess there's rhythmbox
19:24<Wolololol>with search
19:24<annadane>i'm not really an expert though
19:24<Wolololol>i saw that.. audacious looked better but it's kind of early 2000ish
19:24<Wolololol>visualizations in a tiny window etc
19:25<ais-admin>Rhythmbox is good for that
19:25<Wolololol>hm
19:27<jc>a lot of people like clementine for audio.
19:28<Wolololol>for fidelity or playlist?
19:28<Wolololol>xmms used to have crystal plugin that sounded awesome.. back in late 90's :)
19:28<jc>beats me. i use vlc for everything.
19:29<Wolololol>vlc isnt as good as xmms with crystal plugin on freebsd
19:29<Wolololol>for fidelity i mean.. audio
19:29<ais-admin>yeah me 2 vlc - occaisionally I'll pop open Rhythmbox
19:29<annadane>mpv is certainly less bloat-y
19:29<annadane>but maybe takes more time to set up
19:29<annadane>s/maybe/definitely
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19:33<Wolololol>grabbed rhythmbox to check out
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19:35<Wolololol>thanks. sounds good
19:36<ais-admin>its good for searching if you have a massive music collection
19:36<ais-admin>(once it indexes everything)
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19:42<Ouroboros>ais-admin: well, it unlocked and the fs is system is still there :P
19:42<ais-admin>outstanding
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19:43<blackhack>hola
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19:43<jc>i use an advanced organization and indexing system called "ext4"
19:43<ais-admin>hehe
19:44<blackhack>lol
19:45<annadane>!es
19:45<dpkg>Este canal es de soporte técnico en Inglés para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en Español, puede ingresar en #debian-es tecleando /join #debian-es en la línea de chat.
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19:57<Ouroboros>jc: just wait until you see ext5
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20:42<Ouroboros>i wonder why 'shutdown -h now' from the installer seems to not actually power off but just reset to the grub menu
20:44<Ouroboros>is that a thing? or is it vm shenanigans
20:46<ais-admin>perhaps the hypervisor turned it back on after it saw the vm go off
20:47<ais-admin>what hypercvisor do you run?
20:48<ais-admin>KVM/QEMU? Virtualbox? or (heaven forbid) vmware?
20:52<Ouroboros>who the hell knows :P
20:54<Ouroboros>but when the installer rebooted at the end, then i actually saw the bios screen and loading into grub menu
20:54<Ouroboros>so there is possibly some kind of difference
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21:59<rmartinez>helllo
21:59<dvs>hiiiiii
21:59<rmartinez>whats this ?
21:59<dvs>a support channel for Debian
22:00<rmartinez>oh ok
22:00<rmartinez>is there something especial on this xchat?
22:01<drakonis>don't install xchat, install hexchat
22:01<somiaj>xchat just connects to irc networks, different irc networks and different channels have various topics.
22:01<drakonis>also someone please delete the xchat package
22:01<rmartinez>humm ok this looks kinda wayyyyy old
22:01<drakonis>it is
22:01<drakonis>use hexchat instead hmm
22:01<rmartinez>lol
22:02<somiaj>If you want to find out more about this network #oftc would be appropriate. This network is mostly for debian support and devleopment, so not to many social channels.
22:02<rmartinez>so why not using fb whatsapp or snapchat?
22:02<drakonis>because someone decided it was okay to bring back an dead package
22:02<drakonis>irc is cool though
22:02-!-banc [~master@82.145.37.203] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in]
22:02<dvs>maybe. ;-)
22:02<somiaj>people should be free to use the irc client they want. But anyways irc has been around a long time, though more for open source communities, as you mentioned social networks seem to have more users.
22:03<somiaj>well that is who uses it the most that I know of
22:03<rmartinez>yep
22:03<sney>xchat is still in the archive for reasons unknown. it has unpatched security flaws and no upstream developer. hexchat was supposed to supplant it, but somehow that didn't happen yet
22:03<rmartinez>who old is everyone here? 17 here
22:03<sney>there was a bug report to that effect when I was the hexchat maintainer which was like 2 years ago now
22:03<sney>rmartinez: if you just want to chat, try /join #moocows
22:04<sney>rmartinez: this channel is for people who need help with debian
22:04<somiaj>ahh, didn't realize it had no matainer, is there a rc bug against it for the security holes?
22:04<somiaj>,v hexchat
22:04<judd>Package: hexchat on amd64 -- wheezy-backports: 2.10.0-1~bpo70+1; jessie: 2.10.1-1+deb8u2; jessie-backports: 2.12.4-3~bpo8+1; stretch: 2.12.4-3; stretch-backports: 2.14.1-2~bpo9+1; buster: 2.14.1-2; sid: 2.14.1-2
22:05<somiaj>,v xchat
22:05<judd>Package: xchat on amd64 -- wheezy: 2.8.8-7.1; wheezy-security: 2.8.8-7.1+deb7u1; jessie: 2.8.8-7.3; stretch-backports: 2.8.8-15~bpo9+1; buster: 2.8.8-15; sid: 2.8.8-15
22:05<rmartinez>well anyway does someone know how i can install a vpn?
22:05<somiaj>seems like it was removed from stretch due to the rc bug, but someone must use it if they made a stretch-backport packages for it.
22:05<somiaj>rmartinez: in what way? A server like openvpn, or do you want to connect to some vpn?
22:05<sney>someone must be backporting those patches from hexchat. weird
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22:06<rmartinez>whats the difference between hex and X chat?
22:07<somiaj>rmartinez: please don't /msg users, keep your questions in the channel
22:07<somiaj>You still aren't clear, are you trying to connect to a vpn?
22:07<sney>xchat was abandoned by its programmer, so someone else forked it and made hexchat. it's basically an updated version of the same thing, with some extra features
22:07<somiaj>and it seems someone in debian doesn't want to see that package die
22:08<rmartinez>oh ok
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22:08<drakonis>there was an blog post about it
22:09<drakonis>from the current maintainer
22:09<rmartinez>i just want to obtain a vpn to unblock some pages like a blog
22:09<drakonis>https://blog.tingping.se/2018/03/02/when-distros-get-it-wrong.html this post
22:10<drakonis>the guy that develops hexchat
22:10<somiaj>rmartinez: well first you need to find a vpn to connect to, there are different pay ones out there, some open ones. Then get a client, network-manager has tools to connect to most vpns
22:10<somiaj>rmartinez: but we really can't help you get a vpn, though some may have suggetions of place to go.
22:11<rmartinez>ok thanks for the help :)
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22:12<sney>drakonis: ah yeah I know him but I hadn't seen this, thanks
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22:18<somiaj>I guess I don't really see what the problem is, this isn't the only 'dead' software debian keeps around (it still has fvwm1 for instance). If there are rc bugs report them.
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22:20<sney>yeah, I guess. it's just weird considering hexchat is almost indistinguishable from xchat, usage- and appearance- wise, aside from stuff that xchat lacks
22:20<sney>(e.g. lua and python3 scripting)
22:21<somiaj>I think it is strange that it came back in, and I agree that probably it should be matained outside of debian patches on top of the old source, but as long as there are no rc bugs, and someone is willing to deal with the rc bugs, debian will keep it around.
22:21<sney>the maintainer said something about updated graphics and I'm confused about that because they're both still just gtk2 apps. maybe some icons got changed? what?
22:21<sney>yeah and as long as it's not in any important metapackages then it'll just fade away anyhow
22:22<somiaj>or just sit there for those who still want to use xchat because of the name.
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22:22<sney>right, I just mean a downward trend on popcon basically
22:22<somiaj>I just noticed that as of 2017, there is still people using fvwm1, which is 1998 or 1999, last offical release.
22:23<sney>as recently as 2014 I had a use case for wmaker so I can't really speak against keeping old weird stuff around
22:23<sney>it's just that in this case it seems more like maintaining an older ffmpeg in spite of avconv.
22:24<somiaj>tracker only goes back to 1999, in which case there had already been 34 debian revisions, and now 20 years later, we are up to 56 debian revesions.
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---Logclosed Fri Jun 08 00:00:45 2018