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#debian IRC Logs for 2018-07-02

---Logopened Mon Jul 02 00:00:18 2018
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00:36<chicognu>I need some help here. I have a external hdd, and files only shows when I access it as root. I already did chown -R username:usergroup on mount point, and add this line to /etc/fstab UUID=e5150178-3bb8-49af-b90a-cad156fa6c8d /media/ExternalDriver ext4 user,noauto,rw 0 0 but nothing seems to fix the problem
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01:28<poyraz>hi
01:28<poyraz>hello everyone
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02:15*mnuhmnuh hmm. why do (eg.) vlc spit stderr bs to calling xterm instead of ~.xsession-errors ... hmm ...
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02:24<mnuhmnuh>don't you hate it when "Hello! I'll be your friendly XDG Autostarter today." pops up?
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02:25<mnuhmnuh>my gawd.
02:25<renkyo>hello
02:26<annadane>hello renkyo
02:27<renkyo>nice meet you...^^;;
02:30<renkyo>here ....very Silencing....^^;;
02:30<mnuhmnuh>!ask
02:30<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
02:30<annadane>yeah, it's a support channel, people generally don't talk unless there's a question
02:31<renkyo>very thank you~ ....(_ _)..
02:32<mnuhmnuh>no problemo
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02:43<mnuhmnuh>what is this? https://paste.debian.net/1031626/
02:44<mnuhmnuh>stderr gbg.
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02:51<mnuhmnuh>aii. "avcodec decoder error: more than 5 seconds of late video -> dropping frame (computer too slow ?)" 40 times?
02:51<mnuhmnuh>wtf?
02:53<mnuhmnuh>just playin' a locally hosted tune file.
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03:14<jelly>mnuhmnuh: what is a "tune" file
03:14<annadane>music presumably
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03:15<jelly>!ask
03:15<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
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03:15<mnuhmnuh>music, via yoyube-dl
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03:18<annadane>and i mean, unless it interrupts your music enjoying experience i'd probably just ignore it
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03:25<jelly>mnuhmnuh: "late video" implies you're reproducing more than just music?
03:26<jelly>what's the exact command used, and what's really in the file?
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03:27<jelly>in all likelihood avcodec/ffmpeg says "computer too slow" because that's right, the machine has some other load that made decoding and playing lag
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03:53<flj>On debian 9 64bit, how is pocket licensed? Is it a free license confer free software foundation's definition of free software?
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03:55<yalp>hi there
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03:56<yalp>simple curiosity: g++ 8.1 has been out for some time now, but the g++ package on sid still points to version 7.3
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03:56<yalp>what's the rules/triggers for g++ to be updated to the latest available release?
03:56<yalp>simple curiosity, not a request
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03:59<Anarka>8. exists in experimental, i guess its a major upgrade and that tkes time
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04:00<itd>flj: What is "pocket"?
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04:02<flj>https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/save-web-pages-later-pocket-firefox
04:03<max_SSOS>Hello, how are you! Is this irc channel a good place to ask for help when errors occor during debian-buster-xorg installation?
04:04<Anarka>#debian-next is the place
04:04<Anarka>here is for stable
04:04<max_SSOS>ok, thank you!
04:04<petn-randall>See you there!
04:04<Anarka>;)
04:04<Anarka>change hat first
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04:17<flj>firefox pocket on debian 9 64bit https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/save-web-pages-later-pocket-firefox how is pocket licensed? Is it a free license confer free software foundation's definition of free software?
04:18<petn-randall>flj: I think it was when I checked the last time. Why do you ask?
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04:20<annadane>it's an interesting point because it _used_ to be proprietary and they since opened it up
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04:20<flj>Because I have been told on trisquel's forum that pocket is not free software. I do not understand it, because my information has always been debian 9 64bit main is entirely free software. And that is what I tell other persons. I do not want to tell something which is wrong.
04:21<annadane>is pocket in firefox-esr, apparently it is, been a while
04:22<flj>Yes, the default debian 9 64bit main firefox browser is firefox esr.
04:23<annadane>well, only one really
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04:25<flj>What is your answer, is firefox pocket free software? Documentation? Or where can I ask?
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04:25<annadane>yeah i don't really have an answer because i don't know myself, it's a good question
04:27<peter1138>There's no reference to any "pocket" in Firefox on my install.
04:27<annadane>not even in about:config?
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04:27<annadane>i don't use esr in stable so i don't have a reference machine handy
04:28<peter1138>Hmm, ok, there is a bit in about:config.
04:29<annadane>flj, i guess, and again it's not necessarily a good answer because i don't really know the answer, but you can try contacting the maintainers about it
04:30<flj>Pocket is present in firefox esr about:config.
04:30<annadane>if you go to https://packages.debian.org/stretch/firefox-esr and look on the right sidebar for "maintainers", it has their email addresses
04:33<flj>https://www.debian.org/legal/licenses/ shows debian's license. And it says 'The main archive area comprises the Debian distribution. Only the packages in this area are considered part of the distribution. None of the packages in the main archive area require software outside of that area to function. Anyone may use, share, modify and redistribute the packages in this archive area freely' about debian 9 64bit main.
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04:34<annadane>yep, that's why there's contrib and non-free, for packages which violate the DFSG
04:34<annadane>well more particularly contrib *relies on* packages which violate the DFSG
04:35<flj>If firefox pocket is non free then it is against debian main's own rules.
04:36<flj>Lisence rules.
04:36<annadane>in theory yes
04:36<annadane>but i don't know if it's against the DFSG or not
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04:40<flj>To clarify, no piece of non free software is allowed in debian main. You may use, share, modify and redistribute the packages in this archive area freely, debian main. If firefox pocket does not adhere to these requirements then firefox pocket is not free software and not allowed to be in debian main.
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04:40<annadane>yes, i'm aware of how it works
04:41<annadane>i just don't have a clear answer for you and suggest you query the maintainers
04:42<petn-randall>flj: Download the Debian source package and look in debian/copyright. Also have a look at the changelog, it'll usually have hints to such issues.
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04:42<annadane>yeah there is that too... that's a much better answer
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04:42<flj>I think the person on trisquel's forum is wrong and will ask him for further documentation. Why should debian make an exception regarding firefox pocket?
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04:43<flj>It would be the only exception?
04:43<annadane>no, debian won't make any exception to software in main
04:43<annadane>it'd go against the social contract
04:43<itd>flj: AFAICS the pocket extension is MIT licensed (browser/extensions/pocket/content/panels/license.txt).
04:43<petn-randall>Not even for Linux kernel firmware.
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04:46<flj>On trisquel's forum there is this tendency to look at debian main as not being free software because fsf will not recommend it. But fsf endorsement is not required for a piece of software to be free software.
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04:47<annadane>no well indeed and the reason trisquel won't condone it is because it gives you the option of non-free software
04:47<annadane>er, rather, the reason fsf won't condone it
04:48<itd>https://salsa.debian.org/mozilla-team/firefox/blob/release/master/browser/extensions/pocket/content/panels/license.txt
04:50<itd>And one can change the server URL ("extensions.pocket.site"). So, no hard dependency on their service. (I guess.)
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04:54<flj>This is a big deal to me. I do not want to think debain 9 64bit main is free software if it is not. And I do not want to mislead people by telling them incorrectly that it is free software.
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04:56<jelly>flj: FSF and DFSG definitions of "free" are slightly different, and Debian is free software by DFSG
04:56<flj>If it is not.
04:57<jelly>a piece of software can enter Debian main repo only if it complies with dfsg
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04:58<peter1138>Reading around, maybe people are concerned that the pocket site isn't open source?
04:59<Iridos>a piece of my mind, on the other hand ^^
04:59<jelly>flj: a client for a non-free SaaS can still be DFSG compliant.
05:02<flj>We are only talking about debian main. https://www.gnu.org/distros/common-distros.html. Fsf does not deny debian main is free software by fsf's standards. A key logger can be free software. That does not imply fsf or we like it.
05:03<jelly>well there you go, firefox can embed a piece of free code that currently only works with Mozilla's own closed cloud thingy.
05:04<jelly>where's the issue
05:04<annadane>on top of that though i'm not sure how much the debian stable maintainers (and yes this is a wrong term but you get the point) patch their packages
05:05<annadane>aka how much firefox-esr in stable would differ from if you downloaded it from their website
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05:07<Iridos>you can easily determine that… the source package has the original from upstream plus the patches
05:07<annadane>right you can see the diffs
05:08<flj>I am investigating if there is a free software issue regarding firefox esr pocket. Because a person on trisquel's forum claims there is. Your pieces of information tells me there is no issue and the person is not right.
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05:35<flj>Thank you I stop.
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05:55<chicognu>n Stretch: /msg dpkg stretch ; /msg dpkg 9.4 ; /msg dpkg jessie->stretch; /msg dpkg install stretch | Oldstable: Debian Jessie /msg dpkg jessie ; /msg dpkg 8.10 | NO FLOOD: /msg dpkg paste | /msg bots NOT people | offtopic: #debian-offtopic | unstable: #debian-next | chanlogs: /msg dpkg irclog this msg is normal when using dvds as repositories ?
05:55<chicognu>err
05:56<chicognu>This msg is normal when using DVDS as repository ? W: The repository 'cdrom://[Debian GNU/Linux 9.4.0 _Stretch_ - Official amd64 DVD Binary-1 20180310-11:21] stretch Release' does not have a Release file. N: Data from such a repository can't be authenticated and is therefore potentially dangerous to use.
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05:56<annadane>i think i'd just comment out the cd-rom entries
05:57<chicognu>annadane, I need to use it. I don't have access to internet all day where I'm located
05:57<annadane>ok yeah
05:57<annadane>wait for a smarter person to answer :P
05:58<chicognu>:D
05:58<annadane>misunderstood the question
05:59<petn-randall>chicognu: What are the contents of your /etc/apt/sources.list?
05:59<chicognu>petn-randall, where can I past ?
05:59<petn-randall>chicognu: https://paste.debian.net for example.
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06:01<chicognu>https://paste.debian.net/1031653/ petn-randall
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06:03<chicognu>petn-randall, a detail I forgot to mention: I install debian from live non free version, and dvds are from the oficial release. There is any problem with that combination ?
06:04<petn-randall>chicognu: Did you create those lines with apt-cdrom?
06:06<chicognu>petn-randall, the especific lines that are uncommented, like: deb cdrom:[Debian GNU/Linux 9.4.0 _Stretch_ - Official amd64 DVD Binary-1 20180310-11:21]/ stretch contrib main yes, I did. The commented lines at begging of file I put by my self before use apt-cdrom. Both have same "issue"
06:08<petn-randall>chicognu: Can you paste the complete command you're using + output, too?
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06:11<chicognu>petn-randall, https://paste.debian.net/1031655/
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06:11<chicognu>petn-randall, and in fstab there is the mount point from iso to the folder
06:12<petn-randall>Ah, that's in spanish.
06:12<petn-randall>!localized errors
06:12<dpkg>To provide command output in English instead of your native language, set your locale to an English one (e.g. C) prior to running the command, e.g. "LC_ALL=C apt-get -f install".
06:12<chicognu>portugues
06:12<petn-randall>chicognu: ^
06:12<petn-randall>Right, sorry :-X
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06:13<chicognu>lc command not found petn-randall
06:13<petn-randall>lc command?
06:13<chicognu>yes
06:14<chicognu>lc ALL=C apt-cdrom -d=/debian/repository/dvd3/ add bash: lc: comando não encontrado
06:14<petn-randall>No, you don't run a command, you set the environment variable. Like this: "LC_ALL=C sudo apt-cdrom -d=/debian/repository/dvd3/ add"
06:15<petn-randall>It needs to be all caps, and there is an underscore (not a space).
06:15<chicognu>thanks
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06:16<chicognu>https://paste.debian.net/1031656/ petn-randall here
06:19<petn-randall>chicognu: That looks right to me. So what command do you run that gives you an error?
06:19<petn-randall>(paste the command + complete output)
06:19<chicognu>petn-randall, not a erro, just a warring on apt-get update. Just a second...
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06:25<chicognu>petn-randall, https://paste.debian.net/1031659/ here, at the end, apt-get update complaining that cdrom sources could not de be verify
06:28<petn-randall>chicognu: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=807996
06:28<judd>Bug http://bugs.debian.org/807996 in apt (open): «apt: "apt-get update" gives 'repository cdrom://... does not have a Release file' warning»; severity: minor; opened: 2015-12-15; last modified: 2017-07-31.
06:29<petn-randall>chicognu: I think it's because those images are not mounted when you run 'apt-get update'.
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06:31<chicognu>petn-randall, they are mounted on boot... automonted by fstab
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06:32<chicognu>petn-randall, Reading that "bug report" I think it is a messing release.pgp in the top level directory of the dvd. But I'm not sure
06:32<chicognu>missing*
06:33<petn-randall>chicognu: Could be, yes. As long as your verified the DVD images by GPG signature, you should be fine.
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06:35-!-petn-randall changed the topic of #debian to: Debian Stretch: /msg dpkg stretch ; /msg dpkg 9.4 ; /msg dpkg jessie->stretch; /msg dpkg install stretch | Oldstable: Debian Jessie /msg dpkg jessie ; /msg dpkg 8.10 | NO FLOOD: /msg dpkg paste | /msg bots NOT people | offtopic: #debian-offtopic | unstable: #debian-next | chanlogs: /msg dpkg irclog
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06:36<chicognu>petn-randall, one more thing. I commented all lines in source list, but apt-get update still check for updates in Ign:1 http://deb.debian.org/debian stretch InRelease
06:36<chicognu> there is a way to remove this ? I wish only use DVD packages, even is outdates
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06:37<chicognu>if is outdate*
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06:37<petn-randall>chicognu: Seems as though you got more mirrors listed somewhere in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/*.
06:38<petn-randall>If you remove those, you should only be using the DVD images.
06:41<chicognu>petn-randall, thanks, I removed it... only using cd-roms now
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06:42<petn-randall>you're welcome
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09:04<papi83dm>welcome
09:04<papi83dm>morning
09:05<papi83dm>are there any downside by upgrading from debian 8 to 9, instead of doing a fresh install and migrate the data?
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09:10<b17>papi83dm: not if you make a backup. I like new install myself.
09:11<bear>Question, I'm running Testing/Buster at the moment. The most recent kernel update causes X to no longer start, it just sits on a black screen (X still works fine if I boot into the previous Kernel version however). Where should I look first for the culprit? I'm suspecting the NVidia drivers.
09:13<jelly>papi83dm: in-place upgrades are fully supported in debian, some bits of configuration will differ compared to a fresh installation, and some packages will be leftovers but still installed
09:13<bremner>bear: #debian-next for testing questions
09:14<bear>Opps, sorry Bremner. Thank you!
09:15<jelly>papi83dm: ask the bot about the documented release upgrade process and gotchas, /msg dpkg jessie->stretch
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09:29<jelly>same thing happens with nvidia and stretch-backports kernel, fwiw
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10:24<przemek>hm
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10:28<Anarka>depending on the system you should check release notes, about noteworthy new packages and/or remove packages
10:30<Anarka>removed... like for ex if you have nagios, in stretch its gone and you should move to icinga
10:30<Anarka>or other... but thats just an ex
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10:59<jimpop>wow, netsaint < nagios < icinga
11:00<jimpop>that product has certainly seen the forks/revisions/renames
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12:08<Ryker>i need help people
12:09<annadane>Ryker, sure, with what?
12:09<Ryker>is there any way to hack instagram without wordlist
12:09<annadane>sorry, off topic
12:09<petn-randall>Ryker: Are you already running Kali or Parrot?
12:09<Ryker>kali petn-randall
12:10<petn-randall>!kali
12:10<dpkg>Kali Linux (http://www.kali.org/) is a security and penetration testing distribution from the creators of <backtrack>. It is based on Debian, but it is not Debian and is not supported in #debian. Seek help in #kali-linux on chat.freenode.net or http://forums.kali.org/ . Also ask me about <based on debian>, and read http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html
12:10<petn-randall>Ryker: Seek help there. ^^^
12:10<annadane>oh i suppose wordlist could be a pentesting tool, i didn't even think of that
12:10<Ryker>i am new hacker so i have alot of questions and problem
12:11<petn-randall>Ryker: Don't forget to insist on getting help, no matter what they say in the channel.
12:11<annadane>generally though, you probably shouldn't hack instagram
12:11<annadane>and if you have to ask, you shouldn't be doing it, it's something you have to learn on your own
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12:13<Ryker>why can't i ask for anything its an open resourse
12:13<petn-randall>The faster script kiddies go to jail, the better. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
12:14<Ryker>how can i get better tools
12:14<petn-randall>Ryker: Ask in the right channel. It's still offtopic in #debian.
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12:16<petn-randall>I'm also sure that your local home depot has great hacking tools.
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12:16<annadane>sass; like it
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12:25<Zangune>Hello, the last Firefox Extended Support Release (ESR) in Debian Jessie (oldstable) is version 52.9.0esr-1~deb9u1, that version, according to Mozilla, will not be updated since August 2018. How long will Debian support version 52.x of Firefox ESR in Jessie? Do you plan to switch to a newer version in Jessie, too?
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12:26-!-kathenas is "Phil Wyett" on #debian-next #debian-live #debian-gnome #debian-boot #debian
12:26<annadane>yeah there'll be a new firefox when this one goes EOL
12:26<annadane>hmm... jessie though... i'm actually not sure; i presume so
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12:27<Zangune>annadane, thanks. How can I know it for sure? Is there a place where I can find more information?
12:27<Neofragel>Buenas. alguien que me pueda ayudar?
12:27<petn-randall>Zangune: Jessie ran out of support two weeks ago; time to upgrade!
12:28<annadane>!es
12:28<dpkg>Este canal es de soporte técnico en Inglés para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en Español, puede ingresar en #debian-es tecleando /join #debian-es en la línea de chat.
12:28<annadane>Neofragel, ^
12:28<Neofragel>Hi
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12:28<Neofragel>Someone could help me
12:28<annadane>sure, what's up?
12:29<Neofragel>It's abouot kernel
12:29<petn-randall>!ask
12:29<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
12:29<Neofragel>I would like to know if it will be a good idea to upgrade my kernel. Now 4.9 to last version
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12:29<Neofragel>I'm running Debian 9.4
12:29<petn-randall>Neofragel: What problem are you trying to solve?
12:30<Neofragel>My question is: it's necesary to update the kernel or not
12:30<petn-randall>Neofragel: Necessary for what?
12:31<Neofragel>To gte more segurity in stability in Debian 9
12:31<petn-randall>Neofragel: The 4.9 kernel gets security updates, just like any other part in Debian stable.
12:31<Neofragel>But last stable kernel is 4.17
12:31<petn-randall>Neofragel: So regarding security, you don't need to upgrade.
12:31<petn-randall>Neofragel: so?
12:32<Neofragel>Ok. Thank you
12:32<annadane>debian stable uses an older kernel on purpose
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12:32<annadane>now, it is possible you *do* have kernel upgrades, but you can check that via apt dist-upgrade
12:32<petn-randall>Neofragel: Newer kernels also introduce newer security bugs. So staying with a version that matures over time is probably safer.
12:32<Neofragel>ok. Perfect. Rally thanks
12:32<annadane>or rather, apt update && apt dist-upgrade
12:32<annadane>if it says everything's up to date then you're fine
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12:34<Zangune>petn-randall, if I read correctly, Jessie will receive security updates until 2020 (Long Time Support), hence the question. Thank you anyway.
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12:35<petn-randall>Zangune: Not for all packages, and not for browsers.
12:35-!-sahithi-ihtihas_ [~quassel@223.182.1.49] has joined #debian
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12:35<petn-randall>Zangune: LTS covers only two architectures, and a subset of the packages.
12:37<petn-randall>!jessie lts
12:37<petn-randall>!jessie-lts
12:37<dpkg>Security support for Debian 8 "Jessie" from the Debian Security Team ended on 2018-05-17. The amd64, i386, armel and armhf architectures will receive additional long term support (<LTS>) via <jessie/updates> until around 2020 for a 5 year lifetime total. See https://wiki.debian.org/LTS for more information
12:37<petn-randall>Zangune: ^^^
12:37<petn-randall>Oh, it's 4 architecures now. Nice.
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12:40<Zangune>petn-randall, thanks again. I am reading.
12:40<aiwol>Hi, since I installed Chromium v67 I can't play embedded .mp4 videos anymore. Anyone got the same problem or has a solution for it?
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12:41<petn-randall>,v chromium
12:41<judd>Package: chromium on amd64 -- wheezy: 37.0.2062.120-1~deb7u1; wheezy-security: 37.0.2062.120-1~deb7u1; jessie: 57.0.2987.98-1~deb8u1; jessie-security: 57.0.2987.98-1~deb8u1; stretch: 62.0.3202.89-1~deb9u1; stretch-proposed-updates: 63.0.3239.84-1~deb9u1; stretch-security: 66.0.3359.117-1~deb9u1; buster: 67.0.3396.87-1; sid: 67.0.3396.87-1; experimental: 68.0.3440.33-1
12:41<petn-randall>aiwol: Which OS release are you running, and where did you install chromium from?
12:42<jelly>judd is lagging a bit there, 67 is in stretch/updates
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12:43-!-Haudegen is "AP,,," on #security #debian.or.at #debian-til #debian-next #debian-kde #debian #debian-desktop
12:43<jelly> 67.0.3396.87-1~deb9u1 500
12:43<jelly> 500 http://security.debian.org stretch/updates/main i386 Packages
12:43<aiwol>petn-randall, stable (=sid, I think?), my version is 67.0.3396.87 and I installed it throught apt-get update.
12:44<aiwol>Ah, yes then stretch, the version threw me off.
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12:45<annadane>sid is always debian unstable
12:46<jelly>aiwol: 64bit or 32bit system?
12:46<aiwol>Ah, thanks, good to know. 64bit.
12:47<jelly>do you have a sample public URL that shows this issue?
12:48<aiwol>jelly, https://hooktube.com/watch?v=oGahOQJjplE
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12:51<aiwol>It works if I select the "Normal embed" option, but not when I select MP4 or as I just noticed WEBM, so it's not only .mp4 videos.
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12:52<petn-randall>aiwol: And that worked fine with the previous version?
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12:53-!-sahithi-ihtihas is "Sahithi Yarlagadda" on #freedombox #debian
12:53<aiwol>And it's not limited to embeds, it doesn't work if I go to the direct video-URL either. petn-randall, yes, it worked with the previous version.
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13:04<jelly>yeah, fails in chromium:amd64, works in google-chrome-stable:amd64, both current
13:04<blast007>doesn't play webm either
13:05<jelly>,v chromium --arch amd64
13:05<judd>Package: chromium on amd64 -- wheezy: 37.0.2062.120-1~deb7u1; wheezy-security: 37.0.2062.120-1~deb7u1; jessie: 57.0.2987.98-1~deb8u1; jessie-security: 57.0.2987.98-1~deb8u1; stretch: 62.0.3202.89-1~deb9u1; stretch-proposed-updates: 63.0.3239.84-1~deb9u1; stretch-security: 66.0.3359.117-1~deb9u1; buster: 67.0.3396.87-1; sid: 67.0.3396.87-1; experimental: 68.0.3440.33-1
13:05<jelly>mh, have to grab the older one from snapshots.debian.org
13:08<jelly>deb http://snapshot.debian.org/archive/debian-security/20180428T122802Z/ stretch/updates main
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13:09<aiwol>jelly, you mean I should put that into sources.list?
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13:10<jelly>no, I'm writing to myself
13:10<aiwol>Oh, ok.
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13:13<jelly>well _video_ works with older package, it's rather quiet however.
13:13<jelly>aiwol: file a bug report, it's an obvious regression
13:14<jelly>!reportbug
13:14<dpkg>reportbug is used to submit bugs to the Debian <BTS>. Install reportbug, then run reportbug. See http://www.debian.org/Bugs/ http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/ch05s04#problem-report for some general information about using reportbug and/or for <debian-installer> bug reporting. Also ask me about <report-bugs>. http://wiki.debian.org/reportbug http://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting, or <reportbug MTA>
13:14<jelly>or it might be there already
13:14<aiwol>jelly, ok, I will do that. Thank you for your help.
13:15<jelly>as in #900539
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13:16<jelly>or that fix broke your site for some reason
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13:17<aiwol>Yeah maybe, that looks a bit different than my problem, because youtube videos work fine for me.
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13:20<jelly>67.0.3396.87-1~deb9u1 might not carry the fix that is in 67.0.3396.79-2
13:20<jelly>unsure.
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13:23<aiwol>Ok, thank you.
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14:32<petn-randall>aiwol: I can reproduce the issue on my stable system; firefox works, chromium just stalls.
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14:38<b0100001001000010>What does "cdc_acm: Unknown symbol refcount_inc_not_zero (err 0)" in dmesg mean?
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14:41<husky> I need to swap my system ssd on a server to a bigger one. Now that it's a fully encrypted install with a RAID mounted, too - what method of moving the system to the new system disk would you recommend?
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14:44<GyrosGeier>lvm?
14:45<GyrosGeier>if you have lvm, you can set up the new disk with a new luks container, lvm inside, and pvmove your system while it's running
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14:46<GyrosGeier>then everything gets decrypted and reencrypted during the copy
14:47<b0100001001000010>What does "cdc_acm: Unknown symbol refcount_inc_not_zero (err 0)" in dmesg mean?
14:47<husky>GyrosGeier: Honestly I'm not sure right now, for it's been like two years since I set it up, and I'm a hobby admin, not a pro. How can I tell?
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14:48<panborder>hello
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14:48<GyrosGeier>husky, lshw should give you a tree
14:48<jhutchins_wk>b0100001001000010: Try pasting the string into google.
14:49<GyrosGeier>b0100001001000010, it fails to load the driver for your USB-to-serial converter because it uses an undefined symbol
14:49<GyrosGeier>so probably the driver is not built for that kernel version
14:49<GyrosGeier>which should never happen
14:49<itd>b0100001001000010: What did you do and why did you do it?
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14:50<itd>panborder: Hello, if you have a question - just ask.
14:50<b0100001001000010>I just plugged my arduino into my computer because I wanted to use it and that error showed up in dmesg.
14:51<b0100001001000010>The error also showed up when I plugged in my ISP programmer.
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14:52<GyrosGeier>yes, these have usb-to-serial converters that follow the CDC-ACM standard
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14:53<b0100001001000010>You mentioned that the driver is probably not built for the kernel version I have. How do I check if that happened?
14:53<husky>GyrosGeier: Found the SSD in the lshw output, listing one ext4 partition for /boot and a luks encrypted partition filling the remainders of the SSD. But no lvm mentioned in the output at all. /dev has a number of dm-X entries. Is that proof of an encrypted volume with LVM inside?
14:53<GyrosGeier>husky, does pvscan show anything?
14:54<GyrosGeier>b0100001001000010, unless you built kernel or modules yourself, that should not happen
14:54<husky>GyrosGeier: yeah, a PV with a VG
14:54<GyrosGeier>husky, then you are using lvm
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14:55<GyrosGeier>you can set up the second SSD similarly, with its own boot partition
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14:55<b0100001001000010>GyrosGeier, I am almost certain that I did not build the kernel or modules myself. I have no idea how to do that. Is there anything else that could cause this to happen?
14:55<GyrosGeier>b0100001001000010, a bug somewhere
14:56<GyrosGeier>anyone on the channel have a CDC-ACM device handy so they can test?
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14:56<husky>GyrosGeier: thanks for helping me find out. So the next stepts would be to put the new SSD in the server, create a /boot and a LUKS partition - and what then?
14:57<GyrosGeier>husky, if you are going for minimum downtime, you can pvmove while the system is running
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14:57<GyrosGeier>create a new PV inside the new container, tell LVM to migrate your data
14:57<GyrosGeier>you can either do that while the system is running, or from a rescue system
14:58<GyrosGeier>from rescue, you also have the option of copying files with rsync, which might be faster since you're not copying empty space
14:58<GyrosGeier>but if the SSD is close to full there isn't much difference
15:00<GyrosGeier>the main difficulty will be making the new SSD bootable
15:00<GyrosGeier>which is best done from the rescue system
15:00<GyrosGeier>there are additional options to make everything complicated
15:00<GyrosGeier>you could use the opportunity to switch to EFI
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15:02<husky>GyrosGeier: OK, I have Partition Magic at the ready on a thumb drive. Making the new SSD would require using parted or fdisk, right? Am I right to assume I have to edit the UUIDs in /etc/crypttab and /etc/fstab before rebooting into the new system?
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15:03<GyrosGeier>yes, and yes
15:03<GyrosGeier>well
15:03<GyrosGeier>the fstab is fine if you pvmove the volume
15:04<GyrosGeier>not sure about the crypttab
15:04<GyrosGeier>you also need to rebuild the initrd
15:04<GyrosGeier>because it gets a copy of the crypttab
15:05<husky>GyrosGeier: Downtime is not an issue, for my mails get spooled in a backup MX :-D Groupware, blog and cloud storage won't be critical.
15:05<GyrosGeier>which is why I suggest booting the rescue system to make the new SSD bootable
15:06<GyrosGeier>mount the new root and boot from the rescue system, chroot into it, install the bootloader and force an initrd rebuild
15:07<husky>GyrosGeier: The new SSD is double the size of the old one - does lvm allow me to increase partition size with a command, too? Reason for switch is not shortage of space, but it's an old drive that seems to come to its end of life ...
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15:07<GyrosGeier>husky, yes, lvextend
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15:08<GyrosGeier>the partition table and the pv are new, so they reflect the new size, and the LV can then be extended
15:08<husky>GyrosGeier: Ich vermute, Du sprichst auch deutsch - ist das hier (https://www.frank-rahn.de/lvm-festplatte-aus-dem-lvm-nehmen/) eine sinnvolle Vorgehensweise?
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15:09<GyrosGeier>that's the full version
15:10<GyrosGeier>if only two disks are involved, you can shorten this -- just tell it to clear everything off the old drive
15:10<husky>GyrosGeier: thanks a million - you helped me a great deal and cleared a lot of my problems :-D
15:10<GyrosGeier>np
15:11<GyrosGeier>depending on your taste, you might also want to enable discards in lvm
15:12<GyrosGeier>these are disabled by default
15:12<GyrosGeier>also, luks drops discards because that would leak how much space is used
15:12<GyrosGeier>if both are enabled, you can keep your SSD a bit longer, at the expense of leaking some data
15:13<GyrosGeier>(also, the pvmove will discard the data from the source drive then)
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15:16<husky>GyrosGeier: From what I read so far I decided to change a few things while migrating to the new drive - no more swap on SSD, but zram disks for that, and /tmp will move to a tmpfs. I'll be using noatime by default and install a weekly fstrim cronjob. IO scheduler will be set to deadline for the SSD. and some more stuff I found at https://wiki.debian.org/SSDOptimization
15:17<GyrosGeier>with modern SSDs, you can just set the discard flag in the fs
15:18<husky>GyrosGeier: I opted for a Samsung 860 Pro for the new drive (while the old one was an old drive I had lying around in used state) - AFAIK they are pretty sturdy and lasting ;-)
15:18<GyrosGeier>the weekly cronjob is a recommendation from a time when SSDs couldn't queue discards, so they would bypass the queue and make all other requests wait until the discards were done
15:18<GyrosGeier>modern SSDs just make a note to discard the sector once idle
15:19<GyrosGeier>(the bank, not the full ssd)
15:19<GyrosGeier>so online discards no longer kill performance
15:19<husky>ah, ok. good to know. I'll sleep over it and think again. Any source of advice for choosing the right parameters for 2018 drives on a Stretch system?
15:20<GyrosGeier>relatime,discard
15:20<GyrosGeier>relatime is just like noatime except mail notification will still work
15:20<GyrosGeier>(basically, it will update the atime on the first access after a modification)
15:20<husky>What's the bonus of using EFI? So far I didn't understand that really
15:21<GyrosGeier>not entirely sure
15:21<GyrosGeier>I use it because the boot is faster
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15:21<GyrosGeier>two seconds from poweron to beginning of kernel for me
15:21<GyrosGeier>four seconds total
15:22<GyrosGeier>but that's a workstation that draws an awful amount of power
15:22<GyrosGeier>so turning it off makes sense
15:22<jhutchins_wk>husky: It's more flexible and easier to update.
15:22<jhutchins_wk>!efi
15:22<dpkg>Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) is a firmware interface specification, intended to replace the <BIOS> firmware interface. Debian 7 "Wheezy" and later releases support installation in (U)EFI mode on 64-bit PC systems (amd64), <secure boot> is currently not supported. http://www.uefi.org/
15:22<GyrosGeier>and it also makes Windows coexist better, which is also not relevant for a server
15:23<husky>GyrosGeier: well, that's not that important to me, for my HP ProLiant Gen8 Microserver goes through several tests for like a minute before reading the first blocks from any drive :-)
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15:23<GyrosGeier>hrhr
15:23<sarnold>husky: have you seen kexec yet? you might like your reboots more ..
15:24<GyrosGeier>what I'd like to see at some point is an online memory test during boot
15:24<husky>sarnold: I try to reboot for modifying the hardware only ;-)
15:24<husky>!kexec
15:24<dpkg>kexec allows the system to load a kernel from a running kernel and boot into it, skipping the BIOS and bootloader stage of a reboot. To disable, «dpkg-reconfigure kexec-tools» or uninstall with «apt-get remove kexec-tools». To skip using kexec once: «/sbin/coldreboot». kexec is not enabled by default since kexec-tools 1:2.0.3-2.
15:24<GyrosGeier>basically, test a few MB of RAM, then boot, and have a kernel thread test the rest and "hotplug" it once it's done
15:25<jhutchins_wk>GyrosGeier: maany bioses defaulted to that, it's the opposite of "Fast Post".
15:25<GyrosGeier>no, they tested all the RAM
15:25<GyrosGeier>I don't want that
15:26<husky>that kind of test sounds like a neat idea, since it would allow to use the system already while testing the memory ...
15:26<GyrosGeier>it would be sufficient to test 64 MB or so in the BIOS, then start Linux and tell it "you have 32 GB, the first 64 MB are tested"
15:26<sarnold>husky: yeah I can imagine with that kind of penalty.. :)
15:26<GyrosGeier>but OTOH I have better things to do than build that
15:28<husky>sarnold: My SSD threw some problems recently so I had to reboot a number of times recently. But before the drive started to give me reasons to replace it I had uptime > 4 months. I don't mind that penalty at all, since I nevertheless have to be present to unlock the LUKS partition ...
15:29<sarnold>husky: ah then what's another minute or two, you gotta walk to it anyway.. :)
15:30<husky>sarnold: the problems were like part of sys partition werent accessible and writable anymore, so I couldn't even sudo at all to have the system shut down. I wonder if kexec would have benn of use then ;-)
15:31<sarnold>husky: probably not; kexec is orthogonal to how you actually start the reboot process
15:32<husky>One more thing - when partitioning my new SSD, should I go for a GPT?
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15:33<jhutchins_wk>husky: How big?
15:33<husky>256gb
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15:37<husky>jhutchins_wk: 256GB
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15:46<GyrosGeier>husky, if you use a GPT, you also need to use EFI to boot
15:47<GyrosGeier>there is a thing called "protective MBR", but I'm not sure if you can still install grub in the empty space that cannot be allocated in a traditional partition table
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15:57<jhutchins_wk>husky: no need for GPT then.
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15:58<jhutchins_wk>You can boot a GPT disk from a BIOS.
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16:11<FailSecurity>Boa tarde
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16:16<husky>jhutchins_wk, GyrosGeier: ok, thanks for the advice you gave. I really appreciate, you gave me a big booster for the project of moving my sys to a new SSD. Thanks a million!
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16:55<mnuhmnuh>all this time i was wondering why i couldn't control x app startup w .xsession, and now i learn debian doesn't like ~/.xsession. so, now, finally, ~/.fluxbox/startup is ... usable. geez.
16:55<mnuhmnuh>like pullin' teeth.
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17:17<b17>mnuhmnuh: yeh i didn't know how to say it, .xsessionrc is still ok to use though right?
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17:20<mnuhmnuh>b17: dunno. it may be ignored, and what good is it, who needs it, if it's all been moved to .fluxbox/startup?
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17:21<sney>probably trying to reduce dependency on outdated xf86 junk
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17:22<mnuhmnuh>i could spend the week just twiddling with this & rebooting to understand it. seems so wrong.
17:22<b17>the starupt is much like an .xsession file anyway from wht I can tell, it allows the debian Xsession to complete and get called by x-window-manager near the end.
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17:23<b17>yeah it is confusing, but it does work pretty reliebly, and if you add other pkgs they can add theor scripts to /etc/X11/Xsession.d
17:24<mnuhmnuh>it works. what if i try to login using another wm? all startup stuff's defined in fluxbox. square one.
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17:25<b17>yeah that is a weakness no shared startup
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17:26<b17>but you might be able to source or dot in something if you need common startup, or add it to the debian Xsession?
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17:41<mnuhmnuh>it's annoying to have to fight to get twenty-year old "solved that prob." knowledge to still work. fine. next.
17:42<b17>mnuhmnuh: all i can say is try it the debian way
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17:44<b17>I really like the debian-specific ways of doing things. i see a lot of criticism and complaints about menu, alternatives, xsession etc... but they are pretty decent ways and they work.
17:45<mnuhmnuh>b17: yeah, i'm back to now stuffing all those apps into a file sourced by fb's startup. should work. couldn't figure out why it was causing so much trouble before. well, this is why.
17:45<mnuhmnuh>grr.
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17:45<b17>i hope you love fluxbox it's like my favorite thing man i like it almost as much as beer.
17:46<mnuhmnuh>wonder if update-menus will become useful for me again ...
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17:49<mnuhmnuh>i really do like fb. fast, low resource usage, easily managed in an editor.
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17:57<b17>mnuhmnuh:pkg wbar is awesome it is really great as a launcher or extra toolbar or whatever in fb.
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18:59<wyatt8750>Hi. Anyone here know how I would make systemd execute a program (pm-hibernate) when it receives the SIGPWR signal?
19:00<wyatt8750>I have a powerbook G4 here and pbbuttonsd only seems capable of sending a signal or suspending to ram. (But suspend-to-ram is apparently broken on my powerbook because I can't wake from sleep.)
19:01<wyatt8750>oh wait nvm, I figured out another way by editing a script that pbbuttonsd calls.
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19:03<wyatt8750>I was totally desperate a moment ago but I guess I figured it out the moment I reached out for help :|
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19:28<Synthea>Can someone help me with that? http://paste.debian.net/hidden/3bef39eb/
19:28<Synthea>I'm stuck with trying to get ipip connection between my router and my laptop
19:29<sarnold>what's wrong?
19:29<sarnold>is pointo point the correct spelling?
19:29<Synthea>Something like
19:29<Synthea>I'm trying to reach from the router an internal address of the laptop
19:32<Synthea>(anyway why doesn't http://paste.debian.net redirect to https://paste.debian.net?)
19:36<b17>Synthea: can't reach from the router? wtf, you mean from another computer via the router to a laptop?
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19:36<Synthea>b17, no I mean from the router to an internal address of the laptop
19:37<b17>from the router so you are the router?
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20:16<Synthea>b17 yes
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20:18<lavamind>could someone explain why https://sources.debian.org/src/vagrant/2.0.2+dfsg-3/bin/vagrant/ doesn't look anything like whats installed in /usr/bin/vagrant ?
20:20<mnuhmnuh>lavamind: sources vs. binaries?
20:20<sarnold>in what way is it different?
20:20<lavamind>in my /usr/bin/vagrant it says "# The application 'vagrant' is installed as part of a gem"
20:20<lavamind>its completely different
20:20<sarnold>I'd expect the shebang line to be swppaed out due to dh_python.
20:21<lavamind>sarnold: here's whats installed http://paste.debian.net/1031801/
20:21<lavamind>I've sudo rm /usr/bin/vagrant && sudo apt install vagrant -t stretch-backports --reinstall
20:22<lavamind>same thing
20:23<sarnold>wow, I see what you mean, that's .. not even close :) They both ahve the word 'vagrant' but that's where the similarities end :)
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20:28<lavamind>sarnold: maybe the answer lies in debian/rules
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20:28<lavamind>eg. export DH_RUBY = --gem-install
20:28<lavamind>so it basically does a gem-install of vagrant
20:28<sarnold>I didn't spot it immediately, but I don't really know gems and bundler and so on
20:29<lavamind>sarnold: I don't know that stuff either :/
20:29*mnuhmnuh shoulda used perl. :-P
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20:44<b17>lavamind: sudo rm /usr/bin/vagrant does not seem like a good idea?
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20:44<b17>bypass apt
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20:46<lavamind>b17: I was testing in case it had been overwritten by something else, --reinstall the package fixes it
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20:47<b17>so if you install from stretch, then --reinstall from -t stretch-backports that;s ok? never did that before.
20:47<b17>seems like a better idea to remove or purge with apt, then reinstall
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20:58<mnuhmnuh>"fbautostart(1) is an XDG complaint startup tool." well, no, not really.
20:59<b17>XDG complaint (sic) is totally accurate, what's the beef?
21:00<mnuhmnuh>compliant, isn't it?
21:00<sarnold>b17++
21:01<b17>i shun xdg as often as possible on window managers, can't say much about it.
21:02<mnuhmnuh>debian and fbautostart sent me there! aii ...
21:04<mnuhmnuh>so, why would i fbautostart when i could just exec fluxbox?
21:04<mnuhmnuh>and you're not talking me out of trying.
21:05<b17>mnuhmnuh: from what i can tell, the stuff in /etc/xdg/autostart does not run unless you have fbautostart installed. I never used it, but it could be fun to try.
21:06<mnuhmnuh>i have it installed, can't say it's doing anything useful.
21:07<b17>well there could be some gnome vfs or other stuff that needs setup in there
21:08<b17>if you want to have a fluxgnome desktop for whatever weird reason
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21:12<mnuhmnuh>fluxgnome?!? eww. i think mate-desktop is installed here (under protest) just to keep the stretch installer happy.
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21:14<b17>yeh you should try startfluxbox with kde installed it's a trip
21:14<b17>that whole xdg thing is another planet
21:15<mnuhmnuh>i've shunned kde for a couple of decades now; i think i can keep it up for a few more.
21:16<mnuhmnuh>so spike fbautostart.
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21:17<b17>i don;t even try on fluxbox to use .desktp files, but it's possible I hear and you can have desktop icons too I think. yeah you dont want it probably, if you want xdg just install lxde or xfce or whatever
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21:20<mnuhmnuh>no, i don't need such. xterm's far more useful than nautilus & caja, et al.
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21:21<b17>fluxbox+xterm+mc can do it all
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21:21<mnuhmnuh>mc?!? can't type mv, cp, less, ...
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21:22<b17>midnightbygodcommander, the best fm ever
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21:23<mnuhmnuh>lazy kids. can't learn to do it right.
21:24<Guest266>good night every one
21:24<b17>well i look at it in mc, then ctrl-o to enter the mc, cp less...
21:25<mnuhmnuh>xman -notopbox -bothshown & # pointy-clicky iface to manpages. :-)
21:26<mnuhmnuh>i just learn cp, mv, rm, ...
21:27<b17>mc gives you a slight pause for confirmation
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21:27<b17>saved me many times
21:27<mnuhmnuh>whatever floats your boat. :-)
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21:36<mnuhmnuh>son of a gun. exec fluxbox turns up pretty much what fbautostart did. hmm.
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21:41<b17>try with a .desktop file in ~/.config/autostart
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21:51<mnuhmnuh>not sure why i'd even want to go there.
21:52<b17>because you want to be assimilated
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21:55*mnuhmnuh people developing for linux ought to learn how *nix works, not just import ms-isms into linux. meh.
21:56<mnuhmnuh>at least learn what hierarchy means.
21:56<coruja>then go preaching in #debian-devel ;)
21:57<coruja>and don't scare users here
22:00<b17>don't fight the hole xdg, resistance is fushal https://everything2.com/title/Cat+Religion+in+Red+Dwarf
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22:01<mnuhmnuh>loved red dwarf.
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22:06<b17>well if you want to wear a hat of majesty and eta hotdog and donut then embrace the xdg
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22:28<suyam>hello
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22:30<dvs>zzzzz
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22:52<mnuhmnuh>coruja: scaring users here?
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23:13<twb>Does Debian Stable have any facility for natural language translation, while airgapped? My target languages are English <--> Mandarin|Arabic|Vietnamese.
23:14<twb>AFAIK for the last 10 years or so everyone has just said "herp derp I let google do it", but 1. this requires internet; and 2. then google knows what I'm translating
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23:59<albter>Hi
23:59<mnuhmnuh>!ask
23:59<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
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---Logclosed Tue Jul 03 00:00:19 2018