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#debian IRC Logs for 2018-07-08

---Logopened Sun Jul 08 00:00:26 2018
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00:37<kvescen>hey debianers, found a tutorial to get current firefox on stable, could you please check that these actions are safe? : https://linuxconfig.org/how-to-install-latest-firefox-browser-on-debian-9-stretch-linux
00:37<kvescen>is it okay if i follow these steps
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00:44<annadane>kvescen, it's possible the instructions are right but i think the instructions on the wiki are simpler: wiki.debian.org/Firefox
00:44<annadane>pretty much just download it and extract into /opt for systemwide or into .local/share/applications for local user
00:44<annadane>or, like, your home directory
00:45<kvescen>thanks annadane, i'll read through wiki
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01:29<lessthan0>the biggest bug I have with the debian installer is that it puts a non-working cd-rom as the first entry in source.list after install
01:29<lessthan0>this breaks things that depend on it like sudo and ssh
01:30<lessthan0>after I delete or comment it out it works fine
01:30<lessthan0>there is a duplicate of the cd-rom source one is already commented out. I delete the one that does not have # and that works
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01:31<lessthan0>it seems like it is commenting the old line item and adding a new one for cd-rom that is identical
01:32<lessthan0>maybe the grub installer is doing this?
01:33<lessthan0>should I edit some environment variable before installing grub?
01:33<lessthan0>or just not use grub at all?
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01:43<mnuhmnuh>lessthan0: this hasn't to do with grub. just assume it's a prod to get you to verify /etc/apt/sources.list contents are apropos.
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01:44<mnuhmnuh>if not, edit.
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01:45<mnuhmnuh>it's also backup/failover option for those with no net access during install.
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01:49<mnuhmnuh>that entry does work when disk is left in the drive.
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01:59<lessthan0>the installer tells you to remove it though
01:59*lessthan0 hmmm
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02:00<lessthan0>and I use usb created with dd
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02:01<lessthan0>mnuhmnuh but why is it not doing failover? it just breaks if the first source (cdrom) is not found
02:03<lessthan0>and why does it remove cdrom with comment then add cdrom on a new line? this is redundant behavior that shows one part is not aware or checking what was done by the other part
02:03<lessthan0>this is broken 3 different ways really
02:04<lessthan0>it almost works and the devs had good intentions but there are bugs to be reported still
02:04<mnuhmnuh>fire away.
02:05<lessthan0>I already made my case
02:05<lessthan0>should I post on the official bug report?
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02:07<mnuhmnuh>bug reports are alwayw welcome, and devs get back to you w info, questions, thanks, etc, in my experience. never hurts (reportbug), easy to do.
02:07<lessthan0>I don't think it is a bug that sudo is not installed by default because I think this is a dependancy on the sources.list breaking
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02:08<lessthan0>if the sources.list gets fixed then the sudo will probably install automatically on first boot just a guess though
02:08<lessthan0>I will make an official bug report and I will try to help the devs any way I can
02:09<lessthan0>I have lots of free time and I would like to give back to foss
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03:25<Kuroko>hi, I´m trying to use the dedicated graphics on a hybrid notebook
03:25<Kuroko>but it seems it will only use the intel graphics
03:27<amberlee>i cant help you, but im sure someone who can will show up
03:27<Kuroko>yeah
03:27<Kuroko>xrandr lists both providers
03:28<Kuroko>but if I try somethin like DRI_PRIME=1 glxinfo | grep "OpenGL renderer"
03:28<amberlee>i admit that i cant help but feel the other gfx board is an nvidia
03:28<amberlee>*a nvidia
03:28<Kuroko>it fails with amdgpu: Cannot create addrlib
03:28<Kuroko>nope
03:28<Kuroko>amd
03:29<Kuroko>I usually have no problems with nvidia on my desktop, though
03:29<Kuroko>it´s a proprietary driver, I know
03:29<Kuroko>but otherwise, it works alright
03:29<amberlee>im something of a debian noob, but ever since surviving my first nvidia gfx driver onslaught, i guess i sorta thought only they caused trouble
03:31<Kuroko>I never installed amdgpu before
03:31<Kuroko>I only had amd gpus in the time of fglrx
03:31<Kuroko>between fglrx and nvidia proprietary
03:32<Kuroko>I would go nvidia without thinking twice
03:32<Kuroko>but yeah, I just want to use the dedicated graphics on this notebook
03:32<Kuroko>I don´t even care if it only uses it, as it will always be connected to AC power adapter
03:34<amberlee>falling sleep here
03:35<amberlee>be back in 8 hours
03:35<amberlee>gosh that joint wrecked me
03:35<amberlee>brb
03:35<annadane>8 hours is firmly out of "brb" territory, i'm afraid i must play internet police
03:36<amberlee>arrest me for 8 hours then officer ;-)
03:36<annadane>no, just a scolding
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04:10<L4R1554>oi
04:11<L4R1554>oi
04:11<L4R1554>hi
04:11<L4R1554>hi
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04:14<annadane>damn. too late. i guess timmy's never getting rescued
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04:20<aversario>Hi guys. I am using Debian for a couple of years now and its great, thank you all!
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04:21<bipul>Hi.
04:21<bipul>What does this kernel stat mean? "sysctl -n kern.ipc.shmall" ?
04:21<somiaj>another convert, welcome to the clut
04:21<annadane>aversario, :)
04:22<somiaj>bipul: google gives me kernel.shmall: Maximum total size of shared memory in pages (normally 4096 bytes)
04:22<somiaj>the kernel docs may have more details
04:23<somiaj>and ipc is inner process communication, so I guess it is the shared memeory in pages of ipc communication
04:23<Kuroko>damn
04:23<Kuroko>I think I´ll install windows
04:23<Kuroko>just not worth the trouble for a machine I´ll use for 10 days
04:24<somiaj>bipul: by chance is this on the freebsd kernel (and not the linux one)?
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04:26<aversario>But, I have a long standing question: how do I edit /etc/apt/sources.list that I can only install (and later update) 1 package from contrib/non-free and leave all the rest packages to be updates/installed from main?
04:27<somiaj>packages from main will never depend or pull in things from contrib and non-free
04:27<somiaj>so just add contrib and/or non-free to your sources.list and install that one package.
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04:28<somiaj>You system won't automatically pull in anything else from those repos, just double check the software you choose to install, but apt show and apt search will both let you know if the software is in main, contrib or non-free
04:29<Kuroko>will it?
04:30<Kuroko>I never see the source from which the package is going to be installed
04:30<somiaj>oh sorry, not apt search, apt policy
04:30<somiaj>apt policy and apt show will tell you
04:31<Kuroko>apt install won´t show too
04:31<somiaj>I never said it would
04:31<Kuroko>sorry, my mistake
04:31<somiaj>that is why I said double check, there are ways to check where the package comes from
04:31<Kuroko>but I think it should, btw
04:32<somiaj>and installing something from main will never pull in stuff from contrib or non-free (other wise that is a grave bug due to a policy violation)
04:32<Kuroko>I mean, wouldn´t it be nice if it said something like ¨The following packages ... will be installed from main:¨
04:33<Kuroko>and then for contrib, etc
04:33<somiaj>I don't think it will add that much and in the end, one should pay attention to what software they choose to install with apt install
04:33<somiaj>but if you think it is worth it, maybe file a wishlist bug
04:34<somiaj>(also think about how this will affect derivatives that ubuntu and all of its ppa's) and really apt install is not the place to get that info.
04:34<Kuroko>yeah, but I mean, it´s harder to miss from where you are installing if it´s made like this
04:34<somiaj>apt policy will tell you exactly where the package is comming from and which sources you have that provide it
04:35<somiaj>hence what youa re asking is already provided via apt policy, which is the tool to use if you want to know exactly what package apt is choosing to install
04:35<Kuroko>hmmm
04:35<Kuroko>I don´t really know about it
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04:35<Kuroko>but let´s say you are installing from non-free
04:35<Kuroko>and the package has a dependency
04:36<Kuroko>it may install other things from non-free, right?
04:36<somiaj>sure
04:36<somiaj>also if you install something from contrib, it may have non-free dependencies (Taht is the defintion of contrib after all)
04:37<Kuroko>that´s why I think it would help having it on install
04:37<Kuroko>maybe a flag for install, so that normal install won´t show
04:37<somiaj>use apt policy if you want to know where packages are comming from
04:37<somiaj>you would still need the dependencies for the package to work
04:38<Kuroko>sure, but you may change your mind about installing it
04:38<Kuroko>I mean, I think it would be nice
04:38<Kuroko>but heh
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04:39<somiaj>well file a wishlist bug, though unsure what traction it would get. If you really want to know about the other packages being installed use apt policy on them.
04:40<Kuroko>it´s not like I would go using policy on everything
04:40<Kuroko>just a matter of curiosity when installing things, maybe
04:40<Kuroko>for me, at least
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04:57<jelly>dselect, ping
04:57<dselect>Sorry jelly, you're not online.
04:57<jelly>judd, ping
04:57<judd>pong
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05:18<EmleyMoor>How "up to date" is the "chromium" package kept?
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05:19<annadane>yeah... that's a can of worms
05:19<annadane>AFAIK the current situation is that it's meant to be updated but hasn't yet for whatever reason
05:20<EmleyMoor>I'm only asking because I'm having serious* trouble with google-chrome-stable
05:21<somiaj>EmleyMoor: debian stable is a frozen system, so as such packages should be frozen and not up to date
05:21<somiaj>browers are special, in that security fixes to browers are not backported but use an updated version
05:21<EmleyMoor>somiaj: But we're talking... ah, just what I was about to say
05:21<somiaj>so chromium gets updated every month or so due to the number of security bugs it has
05:22<annadane>oh i thought this might've been a question about the security update chromium is supposed to be getting but hasn't yet
05:22<somiaj>but the updates are due to security bugs, and they often use the stable version at the time and not the most current version
05:22<annadane>i unfotunately don't really know the specifics
05:22<somiaj>yea, I hope that one hits soon, there is a current bug in the debian-security chromium that is beging to annoy me
05:22<EmleyMoor>So, if it works where google-chrome-stable is failing, it's a reasonable alternative
05:22<somiaj>well specifics in debian are always when it is ready.
05:22<annadane>right...
05:22<somiaj>EmleyMoor: how is google-chrome-stable failing, it is working fine for me
05:23<EmleyMoor>somiaj: Once synced to Google account, window no longer appears (on just one of the two systems on which I run it)
05:23<somiaj>maybe it is an issue with the config in the google account. I don't sysnc my browsers so unsure on that end
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05:24<EmleyMoor>somiaj: I need to find that issue and splat it
05:25<somiaj>I am unsure on the best way to debug issues with the google account syncing
05:25<EmleyMoor>somiaj: Why would it affect one Debian setup and not another?
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05:25<somiaj>I did recentally have to delete my .config/chromium directory and rebuild my profiles from statch due to just poor preformance from having the same directory for 10+ years
05:25<somiaj>probably something in .config/chromium
05:26<EmleyMoor>somiaj: Even a config rebuild from scratch fails under exactly the same circumstances
05:26<somiaj>then as I said, might be something subtle in your google accoutn config, because It hink some of that stuff gets copied from there
05:27<somiaj>you could test the chromium package in security, it works okay, just a small bug with .gifs and html5 videos
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05:27<EmleyMoor>somiaj: But... < EmleyMoor> somiaj: Why would it affect one Debian setup and not another?
05:28<EmleyMoor>If it affected both it would be more credible
05:29<somiaj>try an new user with a clean $HOME and see if it is the same issue
05:29<somiaj>could be something else in $HOME
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05:33<EmleyMoor>I'm trying it... but it does beg the question "what else?"
05:35<EmleyMoor>Hmmmm... you appear to be right...
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05:35<jelly>IME chromium is usually either up-to-date or lagging a week or two behind google's build
05:36<EmleyMoor>So, that begs another question, possibly...
05:36<jelly>ii chromium:amd64 67.0.3396.87-1~ amd64 web browser
05:36<jelly>ii google-chrome-stable: 67.0.3396.99-1 amd64 The web browser from Google
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05:38<EmleyMoor>So, why does this issue only affect me in google-chrome-stable, not chromium?
05:38<jelly>you'll have to ask google about that, probably
05:40<EmleyMoor>Google are usually pretty swift at acknowledging but slower than a wet week in Scunthorpe at continuing to follow up - of course, I'll simply have to wait, but if I could see what it was struggling with I wouldn't need to
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05:51<chaoz>Hi i would like to ask how to always set the testing repos on the debian?
05:51<chaoz>i must specify the current testing repos every time the testing codename changes?
05:52<somiaj>debian testing questions shoudl be asked in #debian-next, and yes you should do it that way
05:52<somiaj>using 'testing' is a bad idea, because when the new testing comes out it can be very broken and you don't want to upgrade to a broken system right after the release unless you really know what you are doing
05:53<annadane>you should use the codename like buster so you don't get nasty surprises when the next stable releases
05:53<chaoz>thank you. I think I have the previous testing because my kernel is 4.4something
05:53<annadane>same for stable, use the codename
05:53<somiaj>4.4 hasn't been a knerel in debian for a while
05:53<somiaj>even stable as 4.9
05:53<annadane>if you want to *always* track one or the other, surprises included, use "stable" or "testing"
05:54<chaoz>how to safely upgrade to the next testing?
05:54<somiaj>and you can get 4.16 from stretch-backporst, if all you need is a newer kernel, you don't need testing
05:54<annadane>basically change stretch to buster, apt update, apt dist-upgrade
05:54<annadane>but you shouldn't need to
05:54<chaoz>Thank you
05:54<annadane>i'd use stable unless you have a specific reason
05:54<chaoz>it's not for server its for personal
05:54<chaoz>but I forgot to change the repos :/
05:55<annadane>as somiaj said, you don't need testing just for a new kernel, but if you just want newer applications in general and want to use testing then it's a personal choice, i guess
05:55<chaoz>yeah thank you very much!
05:55<annadane>and now i really will leave for a while and stop stepping on your toes somiaj :P
05:56<somiaj>I should be in bet, its 4am here
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05:58<aidalgol>I tried more "up to date" distros (including Debian testing) when I was still in school, and I quickly realised that slightly old software is a small price to pay to have peace of mind that a routine system update isn't going to break my system, that I need working at all times because I have work to do or I'll fall behind ohgodidontneedthisextraanxiety!
05:58<somiaj>!sns
05:58<dpkg>Shiny New Shit Syndrome is a serious disorder, which usually breaks out into an epidemic every time something new is released. If you have SNS, ask me about <backports> and <ssb>; these are better options than upgrading to <testing> because it is a <moving target>.
05:59<somiaj>anyways, there are lots of suggestions, but in general one should run debian testing if they understand how debian works and are able to debug and most importnatly report bugs to debian
05:59<EmleyMoor>I run testing only on a VM... all my real kit runs stable
06:00<aidalgol>and have the time to spare whenever things may break.
06:02<somiaj>or just want to learn how debian works. It is a good learning experience, but be prepared to invest time and thought
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06:13<EmleyMoor>This seems to happen every 10 years or so: I get my use of web browsers down to a combination of a fine art and an exact science, then something happens that begins to screw it all up
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06:19<flj>On a debian 9 64bit computer I have connected a windows 8 hdd. Then started gparted. gparted shows that the windows hdd has 7 partitions. 5 in a row. Then unallocated space. 1 partition. Unallocated space. 1 partition. How can I move all unallocated to the right?
06:22<arto>flj: you can move unmounted partiotions using gparted as root, but it takes a VERY LONG time
06:22<flj>thank you. How is it done?
06:23<somiaj>also make backups
06:23<arto>flj: gparted uses colorfull bar in X, easy to use
06:23<somiaj>moving partitions/file systems around can often fail and loose all data
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06:25<EmleyMoor>Yes, don't trust gparted on anything it would be bad to lose
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06:25<flj>The two partitions I want to move are 5 and 15gb.
06:25<flj>Then I cannot get the unallocated space to the right?
06:26<somiaj>I don't see what you get by moving the unallocated space. What is your actual goal?
06:26<arto>flj: you can, but be really carefull what you do, there is no 'undo option'
06:26<flj>I will try to explain.
06:26<EmleyMoor>flj: Unallocated space is just that - unallocated. If you don't mind risking the content of those partitions you can try moving them but OYOHBI
06:28<somiaj>you could also just allocate the space, and then use it as a file system, put it in an lvm, etc.
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06:33<flj>The windows notebook came with no installation dvd. Instead you are supposed to make a backup image. If you want to move to another hdd you then install the backup image. But it does not work. It will not install the backup on another hdd. Then I wanted to use dd if=/dev/sda of=/dev/sdb. But because the target hdd is smaller it does not finish. Then I thought it would be better to have all partitions to the right.
06:33<flj>Thereby ensuring all partitions gets cloned to the target hdd.
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06:34<flj>Cloning first stops when an error message says no more space on the target hdd.
06:35<flj>But I do not know if all partitions have been cloned at that point.
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06:36<flj>... be better to have all partitions to the left.
06:36<EmleyMoor>Hwm
06:37<somiaj>that might help, not quite sure on what you are doing, but just be careful, such operations can be done, but will take a long time, and there is a chance of data loss
06:37<somiaj>so be prepared
06:37<EmleyMoor>Hmmm... is there something that can copy partitions from one disk to another? That may be more help
06:38<somiaj>there is clonezilla and stuff like that
06:38<somiaj>though I prefer just copying file systems myself
06:38<EmleyMoor>somiaj: Indeed, that's another idea.
06:39<EmleyMoor>flj: Can you create partitions of the right size on the new disk?
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06:41<flj>You mean create the same sized partitions on the target hdd? I can.
06:42<EmleyMoor>Same size and type... then you may be able to copy the filesystems over as they stand... using dd perhaps
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06:45<flj>It is unacceptable that windows provides an image backup system which does not work. Right now if the windows hdd fails the system is gone.
06:46<EmleyMoor>Tell us about it! Microsoft Works - the biggest oxymoron out there!
06:46<somiaj>we can't really support windows here, you should maybe ask in ##windows on irc.freenode.net
06:47<somiaj>my experience is windows backup systems require reimaging the whole drive, and not just a partition
06:47<EmleyMoor>s/can't really/really can't/
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06:48<flj>the 4. partition is named microsoft reserved partition and the file system is unknown. It is probably some kind of copy protection. So if I should format partitions on the target hdd I do not know what file system to select.
06:48<flj>for that partition.
06:48<EmleyMoor>flj: Indeed, it's a pain
06:49<EmleyMoor>You probably really need to make sure you use a bigger drive
06:49<aidalgol>If this is just an HDD with NTFS partitions, then just make backups before moving partitions around and you should be fine. If this is a Windows OS HDD, no matter what you do, you're in for pain making ti boot again afterwards.
06:49<flj>If I ask the computer seller what to do he says ask microsoft. If I ask microsoft they say it is oem you must ask seller.
06:50<somiaj>flj: this is not sounding like a debian support questions, you should go ask fro support from people how understand how the windows backup and partitions work.
06:50<aidalgol>Yeah, tech support is a racket.
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06:50<somiaj>so ask in ##windows in irc.oftc.net, there is some support there, but it is off-topic in #debian
06:50<somiaj>arg ##windows in irc.freenode.net
06:51<aidalgol>somiaj: Is working with NTFS on Debian off-topic, though?
06:51<flj>I was asked what this was about. Which I did. Here I am only asking if a debian program can provide a solution.
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06:51<EmleyMoor>aidalgol: No, that would be on-topic, but subject to dissuasion
06:51<aidalgol>heh
06:51<somiaj>aidalgol: the goal here is dealing with a windows backup image, not nesirally ntfs or imaging support.
06:52<aidalgol>somiaj: Ah, OK, I wasn't clear on that point.
06:52<somiaj>yea, it started out talking about moving partitions around and making iamges, but the goal is to deal with windows backup images.
06:53<aidalgol>flj: Short answer is yes, fdisk and ntfsprogs, but you're on your own as far as the windows specifics.
06:53<somiaj>so it is best we don't give advise that could comperimize or break with windows backup images.
06:53<aidalgol>Yeah, better no advice than bad advice.
06:54<somiaj>it appears they want to move a windows install from a bigger disk to a smaller disk, and this is requires changing the filesystem sizes
06:55<aidalgol>and then unbreaking the windows bootloader, which I am 99% certain you can *only* do with a windows recovery/install ISO.
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06:56<flj>I already asked on windows forums. They recommended some free windows backup programs.
06:56<EmleyMoor>Better get on with my lunch, especially as I want to meet up with my friendly local crazy cat lady before I go to church
06:57<flj>The partitions on the source hdd are alltogether smaller than the target hdd. Apparently dd moves also unallocated space to the target hdd.
06:58<somiaj>dd copies all data
06:58<somiaj>again, take this support to people who understand windows better, so you can get advise taht won't hose your windows system.
06:59<flj>I can run the dd clone command. But I would want to know if dd starts with cloning the partitions and then starts cloning unallocated space?
07:00<somiaj>dd is a bite per bite copy, if drive you want to copy to is smaller, this approach wont' work
07:00<flj>Then it does not matter if dd runs out of space on the target hdd if all partitions already have been cloned.
07:01<somiaj>there could be windows data in that unallocated space, but again, do I ahve to say again, this isn't a debian issue, so you should go get proper advise before breaking your windows install
07:01<somiaj>and I would use windows suggested tools
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07:04<flj>Thanks. I stop.
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07:16<ohithere>,kernels
07:16<judd>Available kernel versions are: experimental: 4.16.0-rc6-686 (4.16~rc6-1~exp1); sid: 4.17.0-1-686-pae (4.17.3-1); buster: 4.16.0-2-686 (4.16.16-2); stretch-backports: 4.16.0-0.bpo.2-686-pae (4.16.16-2~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.9.0-6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1); jessie-backports: 4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 3.16.0-6-686-pae (3.16.56-1+deb8u1); wheezy-backports:
07:16<judd>3.16.0-0.bpo.4-686-pae (3.16.39-1+deb8u1~bpo70+1); wheezy: 3.2.0-6-686-pae (3.2.102-1)
07:17<arto>judd: there is for example paste.debian.net
07:18<annadane>judd is a bot
07:18<arto>oh, thanks annadane
07:19<annadane>also i'm pretty sure no human would provide *that* detailed information
07:19<annadane>also paste.debian.net is more for multi-line messages anyway
07:20<arto>annadane: you never know... just copy from net-page and paste to fiel using mouse, if nothing more to do
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08:37<aversario>somiaj, Kuroko: thank you, I think I get it. But one more thing. What if the package is in the main and non-free (has the same name)? Or is this never the case? I am just guessing, I don't have an example.
08:40<arto>aversario: I very much doubt that's possible
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08:42<bremner>no, that's not possible
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08:43<LabMik>Hello
08:44<LabMik>In Firefox 52 ESR. I didn't find refresh button as expected in regard to the firefox documentation
08:46<LabMik>is it normal in this version ? Was some changes made on official Firefox Debian official version ?
08:46<bremner>can you point to the documentation you are referring to?
08:47<arto>LabMik: I don't have Firefox installed, but if you right click, is'nt there refresh option?
08:49<LabMik>yes bremner https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/refresh-firefox-reset-add-ons-and-settings#firefox:linux:fx61
08:49<LabMik>arto no, not with right click
08:49<bremner>LabMik: looks like a version mismatch
08:50<bremner>i.e. you are looking at the wrong docs
08:50<LabMik>bremner: sorry it's not this page
08:50<LabMik>this page bremmer https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/use-troubleshooting-information-page-fix-firefox
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08:53<bremner>LabMik: OK, I agree that firefox-esr does not match that picture.
08:53<bremner>but it's still not clear to me what version of firefox that page is meant to apply to
08:54<LabMik>ok, I ask on firefox channel if it is normal in 52
08:54<LabMik>nobody now
08:54<LabMik>*know
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09:03<bipul>somiaj, Thank you.
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09:43<gabix>AVE !!
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10:23<amberlee>AVE! TRVE TO CAESAR!
10:27<grummund>Is there a debian tool to do OUI lookups?
10:28<grummund>that is, lookup MAC address to vendor.
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10:43<b17>grummund: never used it but have you seen, apt show libnet-mac-vendor-perl ?
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10:51-!-^Q-Master^ is "Vladimir Berezenko" on #debianppc #debian-next #debian
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10:53-!-mr_byt3s is "realname" on #debian #debian-next
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11:02<grummund>b17: thank you. that is a library though. there is also ieee-data, a databse.
11:05-!-neib [~neib@2a01:cb14:a4c:4300:a0d3:6763:b62a:91a3] has joined #debian
11:05-!-neib is "realname" on #tor #debian
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11:08-!-acald3ron is "Armando" on #linode #debian-next #debian-mx #debian-es #debian
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11:09-!-semeion is "semeion" on #bitlbee
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11:13<b17>grummund: ah, yeah i see now. amazing what apt search can find nowadays...
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11:15-!-jeans is "Peres" on #debian
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11:18-!-Ruebezahl is "realname" on #debian #debian-edu #skolelinux.de #osm-de #siduction-de
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11:19-!-edeak is "realname" on #debian
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11:24-!-Haudegen is "AP,,," on #debian-til #security #debian #debian-kde #debian.or.at #debian-desktop #debian-next
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11:37-!-ToBeFree is "Tobias "ToBeFree" Frei" on #https-everywhere #oolite-dev #openttd #tor #debian #linux #oolite #oolite-ger
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11:41-!-Ismili1995 is "root" on #debian
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11:42-!-mtn is "Dan" on #debian-next #debian
11:49<Ismili1995>thanks
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11:49-!-kenoby_ is "realname" on #debian #debian-next
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11:52-!-galex-713 is "Alexandre Garreau" on #debian-kde #debian
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11:52-!-Zinjanthropus is "angantyr" on #debian
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11:56-!-d3vil is "realname" on #debian
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11:59-!-zyl is "realname" on #debian #debian-next #moocows #oftc
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11:59-!-Cerebral is "Cerebral" on #whonix #debian #debian-next #debian-tech #i2p #linux #oftc #privacytools.io #python #Qubes_OS #subgraph #tinc #tor #tor-messenger
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12:00-!-keycollector is "KeyCollector" on #debian-kde #debian
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12:00-!-srbinkatolik is "OFTC WebIRC Client" on #debian
12:00<srbinkatolik>hey guys, looking for a long term supported kde distro
12:00<srbinkatolik>what's KDE like on Debian
12:00<srbinkatolik>is it well supported and well integrated?
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12:04<srbinkatolik>anyone? nobody using KDE?
12:04<bremner>if you can't wait longer than 4 minutes, debian is probably not for you ;)
12:04-!-TTwrs [~TTwrs@c-73-223-71-195.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
12:05<arto>srbinkatolik: use aptitude search
12:05<arto>srbinkatolik: seems there is kde 5 in stable
12:05<srbinkatolik>bremner :)
12:05<srbinkatolik>sorry for my impatience :)
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12:08-!-dust is "dust" on #debian #debian-lxqt #debian-next #debian-science #linux-rt #siduction-dev #siduction-de #siduction #otr
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12:11-!-lessthan0 is "realname" on #debian-installer #debian
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12:11-!-tdy1 is "tdy" on #debian #awesome
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12:16-!-yasir [~yasir@103.72.66.31] has joined #debian
12:16-!-yasir is "yasir kuchay" on #debian
12:16<yasir>hi
12:16<yasir>i have query
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12:18-!-SgtStroopwafel is "Chuck Norris" on #debian
12:18<mtn>just ask your question
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12:19-!-keycollector is "KeyCollector" on #debian-kde #debian
12:19<mtn>oh, you are asking on two channels. been answered on the other one
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12:25-!-saki is "saki" on #Qubes_OS #redditprivacy #privacytools.io #ovirt #virt #linode #debian #cryptoparty #whonix @##tor-project #moocows #oftc #tor #qemu
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12:26-!-gnzlbg is "gnzlbg" on #debian #debian-mips #qemu
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12:34<Ismili1995>how to install android studio in debian
12:35-!-zyley [~n@dsl-lhtbng11-54fa61-241.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #debian
12:35-!-zyley is "realname" on #oftc #moocows #debian-next #debian
12:36<arto>Ismili1995: there is android-sdk package
12:37<arto>and many others, aptitude search android
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12:37-!-nowhere_man is "Pierre Thierry" on @#concatenative @#emacs @#git @#erights @#lisp #debian-kde #debian
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12:38-!-s-mutin is "Sergey A. Mutin" on #debian #qemu #bitrig
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12:43-!-omar is "realname" on #debian
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12:50-!-hele_ is "hele" on #debian-next #debian-kde #debian
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13:00-!-yasir_ is "yasir kuchay" on #debian
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13:04-!-illwieckz is "Thomas Debesse" on #oolite #debianfr #debian
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13:11-!-yasir is "yasir kuchay" on #debian
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13:12-!-yasir is "yasir kuchay" on #debian
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13:26-!-earthundead is "realname" on #debian
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13:28-!-KindOne_ is "..." on #qemu #php #ovirt #osm #oftc #linuxfs #libevent #https-everywhere #globaleaks #gentoo #gcc #g7 #ceph #bcache #awesome #debian #freenode #debian-next
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13:30-!-zyley is "realname" on #oftc #moocows #debian-offtopic #debian-next #debian
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13:37-!-Strife89 is "Michael Carr" on #debian #debian-next
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13:37-!-j0z_ is "l0xas" on #debian #freebsd #linux #slackware
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13:39-!-Strife89|Quassel is "Michael Carr" on #debian #debian-next
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13:47-!-Theroxat is "Theroxat" on #debian @#zenk-security
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14:06-!-nick is "realname" on #debian
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14:07-!-MjrWingnut is "HP Garcia" on #debian #smuxi
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14:08-!-musca is "musca" on #ecryptfs #debian.de-offtopic #debian-perl #debian-paultag-fanclub #debian-next #debian-mozilla #debian-lxqt @#debian-libreoffice #debian-kde #debian-ipv6 #debian-gnome #debian-fedmsg #debian-dpkg #debian-devel-changes #debian-derivatives #debian-cinnamon #debian-blends #debian-apt #debian #aptosid
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14:09-!-jeflui is "realname" on #debian #tor #debian-br
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14:16-!-mtn is "Dan" on #debian-next #debian
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14:27-!-kingsley is "Kingsley G. Morse Jr." on #debian.ch #blug #debian
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14:27-!-Strife89 is "Michael Carr" on #debian #debian-next
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14:35-!-jon_ is "Jon" on #debian-kde #debian
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14:44-!-amacater is "Andrew M.A. Cater" on #debian-boot #debian-wsl #debian-hams #debian
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14:46-!-wargreen__ is "realname" on #debian #debian-next
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14:59-!-dutchfish is "Wil van Lierop" on #debian-devel-changes #debian-boot #debian
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15:01-!-Belserusk is "realname" on #lxde #debian
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15:02-!-Mew is "realname" on #debian
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15:03-!-blu is "realname" on #debian #virt
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15:04<deb6> A Zombie has risen to join the hoard
15:04-!-deb6 is "deb" on #debian
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15:05-!-peylight is "peylight" on #debian #packaging
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15:06-!-peylight is "peylight" on #debian #packaging
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15:15<SomeGuy>Um... Hi, I'm not entirely sure if I'm using IRC properly.
15:16<petn-randall>SomeGuy: Why?
15:17<SomeGuy>First time using it, not using instructions. Wondered if I connected properly.
15:17<petn-randall>SomeGuy: It worked.
15:17<petn-randall>SomeGuy: So what brings you to #debian?
15:18<SomeGuy>I wanted to know more about the project
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15:18<SomeGuy>Since I'm considering abandoning Windows in favor of a different OS
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15:18<SomeGuy>And Debian seemed to be quite highly regarded.
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15:20<SomeGuy>Since I'm pretty retarded with these kind of things, I figured I'd try asking questions here.
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15:22<petn-randall>SomeGuy: Then you came to the right channel :)
15:22<SomeGuy>That's comforting :)
15:22<petn-randall>!faq
15:22<dpkg>[faq] Frequently Asked Questions. The #debian FAQ is at http://wiki.debian.org/DebianIRC . The Debian GNU/Linux FAQ is at http://www.debian.org/doc/FAQ/ . Ask me about <search dpkg> to search my database for FAQ links. Many other FAQ are listed at http://wiki.debian.org/FAQ . Read the FAQs!
15:23<petn-randall>SomeGuy: This might cover some of your questions ^^^. If you have any further ones, feel free to ask.
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15:39<debisha>hi guys, are there any plasma users on stretch and is the experience ok or buggy?
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15:47<SomeGuy>My main question is if it'd come with the control I was looking for. More specifically, if I install the operating system, It wont come with any default programs like windows does, right? And I'm hoping wont have to face the same uphill struggle as with windows to gear everything to my preferances and stop it from doing things automatically (Like launching programs from start up or running
15:47<SomeGuy>things in the background that it doesn't need to .etc) Essentially what I want is a computer that only has what I want on it, only does what I tell it to and only does things how I want them to.
15:47<SomeGuy>I guess freedom to customize everythign is what I'm looking for most.
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15:48<arto>SomeGuy: you can install just minumum debian, and then only programs you need, thats how I do
15:49<SomeGuy>That's good
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15:49<b17>SomeGuy: debian isn't just one os, it is a collection of pkgs you can build dozens of different guis from it.
15:50<arto>it is stil debian
15:50<b17>debian.org is a good place to start, and the faqs petn-randall gave
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15:50<arto>not like ubuntu, which has Kubuntu, Xubuntu, you name it
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15:52<SomeGuy>The packages part is kinda confusing. My computer knowledge is worse than pedestrian.
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15:54<SomeGuy>Still reading through everything. So, I apologise if end up bothering you with noob questions.
15:54<b17>SomeGuy: i don;t think it is a good substitute for windows, but I haven't used windows since xp/2k.
15:56<arto>SomeGuy: just ask, but still you need to read if you start using debian or any distro
15:56<SomeGuy>Coincidentally I think XP was the last windows version that didn't make me want to punch the screen through.
15:56<arto>my last windos was 98
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15:58<arto>and when you start using linux after long windows period, don't think how you did it in windows, think what you want to get done
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15:59<b17>get a live cd/usb working and try it out, it's fun.
16:00<petn-randall>SomeGuy: Note that using Linux is quite a departure from Windows. Not necessarily better/worse (that depends on who you ask), but just different.
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16:02<SomeGuy>I don't mind different. All it has to do is run programs when I choose to run them and them, open files when I choose to open them and the rest of the time do absolutely nothing.
16:02<dragon12>hello
16:03<arto>SomeGuy: good attitude
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16:03<dragon12>my iptables config doesn't work properly
16:03<dragon12>here's my config for ipv4 -> http://dpaste.com/1EWTRWF
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16:04<dragon12>i'm getting error ssh: Could not resolve hostname atypical@autisticstory.net: Name or service not known
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16:06<SomeGuy>Like I say, a big issue is getting windows NOT to do something and all the hoops I have to jump though to disable or change features and settings.
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16:13<petn-randall>SomeGuy: The problem most windows users will bump into is that you can't really use Windows programs on Linux, or only with some pain points. But just find free software alternatives and install them from the package manager.
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16:16<SomeGuy>Their isn't really any programs I think I'll miss. A few old PC games, but I guess I'd be able to play those via a virtual machine or something.
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16:19<SomeGuy>All seems like a small price to pay to be free from all the annoyances windows comes with.
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16:20<petn-randall>Indeed. I tried Windows 10 at work, I don't understand how people can live with that annoying start menu. Dozens of tiles showing ads for games.
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17:23<aidalgol>I think I spent half an hour disabling all that on my work PC.
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17:44<rob_debian>Hi all, please, I've seen every time you configure swap partition during Debian GNU/Linux Installation, you can check through 'cfdis', for example, that swap partition (code 82) is always mentioned with the term 'Solaris'. What does this information mean ?
17:44<rob_debian>correcting: I check it through 'cfdisk'
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18:00<b17>rob_debian: try this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_type
18:02<rob_debian>Hi b17, nice to meet you again :) thanks for hint !
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18:17<react>rob_debian: to answer that question more fully, it helps to have some understanding of MBR's structure and a bit of computing history
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18:20<rob_debian>good hint, react, thanks a lot for that !
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18:24<jhutchins>rob_debian: Swap uses the same filesystem that Solaris OS does by default.
18:24<react>rob_debian: suffice it to say, in the 90s the computing industry was very uncoordinated, and there's a limit on unique partition IDs, so various vendors like Sun Microsystems (and Linux) inevitable assigned IDs to signify different resources, so for Sun while 82 might mean some generic Solaris resource, under Linux it will indicate swap, things are "better" now with GUID and you should probably challenge you
18:24<jhutchins>rob_debian: fdisk doesn't know what you're using it for, it could be either.
18:24<react>rself on why you're not using GUID at this point
18:25<jhutchins>react: Actually, that's not quite it, the swap partition is a valid Solaris partition type.
18:25<jhutchins>react: It's not an overlapped ID, it's the same type.
18:26<react>jhutchins: I seem to recall it being an overlap, oh well, I never actually used Solaris, only that MBR is a pig with lipstick
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18:29<b17>it was real easy for me to switch to gpt. Couple yrs ago? I like it much better also.
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18:49-!-balrog is "balrog" on #qemu #oftc #msys2 #mingw-w64 #lldb #linuxfs #kernelnewbies #https-everywhere #gcc #fish #debian-next #debian-games #debian-68k #debian #cryptodotis #bcache
18:49-!-balrog is now known as Guest689
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18:57-!-annadane is "realname" on #debian-live #reproducible-builds #privacytech #debian-offtopic #debian-next #debian-devel-changes #debian-apt #debian
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19:08<rob_debian>back again, oh, fine, jhutchins and react, let me read about your comments. I was away
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19:11<rob_debian>I read you explanation and understood it quite well, react, thanksa lot for that !
19:11<rob_debian>thank you very much for the information you've provided for me also, jhutchins !
19:12-!-stiylmagnus [~quassel@82.102.16.141] has joined #debian
19:12-!-stiylmagnus is "nico" on #debian #tor #linux
19:13<rob_debian>in fact, I didn't know that 82 indicates a generic or any partition type in Solaris, I thought it was only swap, as it's the case of its use in Linux
19:13<annadane>i thought 82 is swap and 83 is filesystem
19:13<annadane>could be wrong
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19:27-!-dragon12 is "dragon12" on #privacytech #debian-offtopic #debian #tor
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19:33-!-mtn is "Dan" on #debian-next #debian
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19:35-!-Lord_of_Life_ is "Lord_of_Life" on #zzafe #debian
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19:40<jonsnow>hi
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19:40-!-stephen77 is "realname" on #debian
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19:52<rob_debian>hi annadane, nice to meet you again ! Well, I had the same impression, for swap partition is not a filesystem
19:53<rob_debian>bye all
19:53<rob_debian>!
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19:53-!-kathenas is "Phil Wyett" on #debian #debian-boot #debian-gnome #debian-live #debian-next
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20:00-!-root1 is "realname" on #debian
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20:00-!-dvs is "realname" on #debian
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20:01-!-udoprog is "udoprog" on #mm #debian-next #debian #debian-gnome #debian-multimedia
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20:05-!-douglas is "realname" on #debian
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20:08-!-mode/#debian [+l 527] by debhelper
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20:12-!-kathenas is "Phil Wyett" on #debian #debian-boot #debian-gnome #debian-live #debian-next
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20:12-!-wargreen_ is "realname" on #debian #debian-next
20:14-!-tdy1 [~tdy@mobile-130-126-255-147.near.illinois.edu] has joined #debian
20:14-!-tdy1 is "tdy" on #debian #awesome
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20:20-!-Delta-One is "P.F." on #debian-next #debian-kde #debian
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20:34-!-alephnull is "Alok G Singh" on #debian-next #moocows #debian #bitlbee
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20:42-!-lessthan0 is "realname" on #debian-installer #debian
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20:57-!-mikemike is "Si.No.Respondo.Es.Porque.Estoy.Trabajando." on #osm #open-maps-more-than-maps #biz #debian
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21:00-!-kathenas is "Phil Wyett" on #debian #debian-boot #debian-gnome #debian-live #debian-next
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21:04-!-bob98 is "pi" on #debian
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21:06-!-backbox is "Live session user" on #debian
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21:22-!-piper is "Ralph Hokanson" on #debian-offtopic #debian-live #debian-apt #packaging #debian-desktop #debian-derivatives #debian-kde #debian-next #debian #siduction-de #siduction-dev #siduction
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22:08-!-manuelschneid3r is "realname" on #debian #gcc
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22:18-!-banc is "master" on #security #debian #bitlbee #awesome
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22:23-!-Strife89 is "Michael Carr" on #debian #debian-next
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22:23-!-stephen77 is "realname" on #debian
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22:30-!-Strife1989 is "Michael Carr" on #debian #debian-next
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22:34-!-tomg is "*Unknown*" on #debian #debian-next @#debian-support @#initfreedom
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22:35-!-nix_ is "nix" on #debian
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22:38-!-D^ is "D^" on #debian
22:38<D^>HI!
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22:54-!-Strife89 is "Michael Carr" on #debian #debian-next
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23:01-!-Strife89 is "Michael Carr" on #debian #debian-next
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23:04-!-joshwheeler is "Josh Wheeler" on #debian
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23:06-!-bnw is "realname" on #debian-boot #dot #debian-zh #debian #debian-next
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23:12-!-Sveta is "???????? ?. <svetlana@members.fsf.org>" on #debian #packaging #debian-au #smuxi
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23:20-!-Jflesch_ is "Jerome Flesch" on #debian
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23:39-!-fiddlerwoaroof is "Anonymous" on #pwmt @#postgresql #lisp #kernelnewbies #debian-next #debian
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23:56-!-saki is "saki" on #Qubes_OS #redditprivacy #privacytools.io #ovirt #virt #linode #debian #cryptoparty #whonix @##tor-project #moocows #oftc #tor #qemu
---Logclosed Mon Jul 09 00:00:27 2018