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#debian IRC Logs for 2018-07-09

---Logopened Mon Jul 09 00:00:27 2018
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02:16-!-Yst is "Alex Yst" on #debian
02:18<Yst>Thunderbird is stupid and won't let me set a date format. I built a custom locale to deal with that, but when I updated my system through Aptitude, my system seems to have deleted that locale. I get error messages on the command line about the missing locale, and Thunderbird is now defaulting to some idiotic date format.
02:19<Yst>I don't want to bother re-learning how to build a custom locale. Does anyone know a locale that uses the YYYY-MM-DD date format and uses English?
02:20<jm_>can't you get arround that by setting LC_TIME to a different value?
02:20<jm_>ahh I suppose that's your plan, but you need to know which one to use
02:20<Yst>jm_: I need a locale for that.
02:21<Yst>Or actually, I'll probably set it system-wide. No reason not to.
02:21<Yst>Setting it system-wide will fix the command line errors.
02:22<Yst>Every time I open a command prompt and again when I run certain commands ... I get these stupid errors.
02:24<jm_>hmm if I try say 'date --iso-8601' I get the date you want even with en_US, so question is, how does thunderbird determine date format to use
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02:27<Yst>jm_: Much to my annoyance, it guesses the format based on locale. I've read several articles saying the only way to set the date format is to change the locale.
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02:35<Yst>Actually, it looks like Debian now has the fix, a locale designed for just this sort of problem. Last I checked, that locale wasn't valid in Debian, but it is now: en_DK.
02:36<Yst>Restarting THunderbird didn't fix it after changing locale. I guess I've gotta' restart the system too.
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02:39<somiaj>maybe logout and back in
02:39<somiaj>the locale is most likely comming from the shell xorg is running in
02:39<somiaj>unless you ran thunderbird from the command line in another shell
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02:42-!-Yst is "Alex Yst" on #debian-offtopic #debian-next #tor #debian
02:43*Yst is really tired of programs that don't have proper configuration options and either require stupid workarounds or cannot be fixed to work properly at all
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02:44<somiaj>oh you missed my comment about just needing to logout/backin to update the locale in the running xorg shell
02:44<jm_>heh I found a prefs setting for search date format
02:45<Yst>somiaj: I missed that, but knew as much. I guess I phrased it poorly (and by that, I mean outright incorrectly).
02:45<Yst>jm_: But does it affect display date format?
02:45<jm_>Yst: no, I think not
02:46<Yst>That won't work then. I never search by date.
02:46<Yst>I just like to understand when emails arrived, and I need a sensible date format to do that.
02:47<jm_>yeah the comment was somewhat related to your comment about not having config options - so they added it for search, but not for display
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02:51<Yst>I'm not even sure what Thunderbird was using, but it's probably that obnoxious MM/DD/YY format.
02:51<Yst>I mean, seriously. Use big endian or little endian. That's all I ask. Don't put the month, the middle component, at the beginning.
02:51*Yst cuts themself off before going on more of a rant on the topic
02:51<Yst>I thought for sure this new locale would mess with my spell checker, but either Geany is using its own spell check setting or this locale is compatible with English English (as opposed to, say, United States English).
02:51<Yst>Not sure I care which, honestly.
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03:00<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on See <smart questions><errors>.
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03:02<t-ware>how are you
03:02<elliotkaliss7>and you?
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03:02-!-skitt is "Stephen Kitt" on #debian
03:02<t-ware>im good
03:02<t-ware>about news
03:02<dpkg>This is not a chat channel, this is a Debian user support channel. Unless you have a Debian support question, please chat elsewhere, like #debian-offtopic, or #moocows on or ##chat on
03:03<elliotkaliss7>are you certified hacker?
03:03<t-ware>kkkk i dont no
03:04<t-ware>and you
03:04<elliotkaliss7>when did you joined?
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03:04<somiaj>elliotkaliss7: t-ware: this is not a chat room, do either of you have a debian support question?
03:05<t-ware>kkkkkkkk yaaaaa
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03:07<t-ware>man are offline now?
03:08<t-ware>i would like to ask somethings
03:08<annadane>read the !ask thing i posted
03:08<annadane>if you have a question just ask it
03:08<somiaj>if you have a question about debian (not its derivatives), ask it, otherwise there are more appropriate places to ask.
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03:12<annadane>and no you don't have to ask your question exactly like it says, it's just an example
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03:42<drzacek>sooooo what did you wanted to ask, t-ware?
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03:45<t-ware>my problem is that
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03:46<t-ware>i do know if you can help
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03:47<annadane>try describing the problem, we'll let you know...
03:49<t-ware>my linux is not enable wi-fi
03:50<annadane>as root, run dmesg | grep -i firmware, and paste the output to
03:50<annadane>also, are you running debian?
03:50<annadane>or are you running a debian derivative like kali or parrot?
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03:56<t-ware>parrot 3.11
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03:56<dpkg>Parrot OS ( is a security and penetration testing distribution. It is based on Debian testing, but it is not Debian and is not supported in #debian. Seek help in #parrot on or try the mailing lists at Also ask me about <based on debian>.
03:56<annadane>please ask there
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03:57<Synthea>There's a command to get what packages are needed for compiling a source?
03:58<annadane>apt build-dep, i think
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04:00<jm_>or you can use tools like dpkg-awk, dctrl-tools to parse Sources files manually (i.e. Build-Depends field)
04:00<Synthea>annadane I mean a source that has nothing to do with debian repos
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04:02<grove>There's no standard way of specifying that outside package systems, so no
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04:07<Synthea>jm_ how can I use them?
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04:10<jm_>Synthea: as with other suggestions, it's for debian source packages only - I suggested to use those before knowing you are asking this in general
04:11<Synthea>jm_ I want something for general sources
04:11<annadane>i mean isn't compiling from source for software in general just basically ./configre and then make && make install
04:12<Synthea>cmon there should be things that debian packagers use for knowing the build-depends before writing debian/control
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04:14<annadane>hang on, are you trying to package for inclusion in the debian archive?
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04:16<Synthea>annadane yes
04:18-!-mode/#debian [+l 517] by debhelper
04:19<jm_>this page has hints
04:19<jm_>«$Line 5 includes the ...» and onwards
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04:31<annadane>oh wow that wiki article "This section needs a major update, in its current state it has a lot of mistakes and thus currently isn't about official backports anymore"
04:31<annadane>i'd fix it but i wouldn't know how
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05:17<annadane>what's the best way to get persistence with debian live images?
05:19<mda42>All B Back.
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05:23<plank>is it safe to install a persisntent debain on usb? i heard rufus was not stable for linux
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05:30<mda42>Use the dd option.
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05:31<plank>dd is what?
05:32<plank>i had a friend called 'dd' year a ago. a drumemr with red hair ' duracell drummer'
05:32<plank>but i think that isnt what u mean here
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05:33<annadane>dd is a command line utility for copying files, but i didn't know you could get persistence in live images using it
05:34<annadane>mda42, can you?
05:34<plank>ohh.. i dont like to use terminal. is there no 'full install ' option on the live usb? i can insert a second usb and install to there
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05:39<Anarka>you can do that, just use the other usb as a install path...
05:39<Anarka>dunno if you want a full install or know what that means
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05:43<mda42>annadane, You can use any other distro on Rufus. Just mentioning that Debian is the only choice you want, you can try maybe other OS' if you're not interested in this popular distro.
05:44<annadane>yes but you're not supposed to use rufus for writing iso's to disk
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05:44<annadane>unless live images with persistence are different
05:44<grawity>it works quite fine for that
05:44<annadane>for live?
05:45<grawity>well, if you have an already-hybrid iso, you have to select the "dd" mode in rufus
05:45<annadane>and with persistence?
05:45<annadane>i didn't know about that
05:45<grawity>and then it works the same as `dd if=foo.iso`
05:45<plank>i cant follow wat u guys are saying
05:45<grawity>(it's probably not called "dd mode", but... it's there)
05:46<annadane>anyway it's not me who needs help with it, it's plank, they want to install a live debian iso to a usb with persistence
05:46<annadane>apparently dd can do that i guess
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05:46<plank>i used rufus and installed u buntu that way. im running it now and seems ok
05:46<annadane>though i guess this is useful for me to know as well
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05:46<grawity>well, dd only copies what's already on the iso, so if the iso was built to support persistence (like in slax) you'll get persistence
05:46<plank>yes, cos u are tempted to try ubuntu 18 now ;)
05:47<annadane>i'll pass. :P
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05:47<grawity>if it wasn't, then maybe you don't want a "live" installation, maybe you could just use a regular installation
05:47<annadane>well that's the thing, the debian live images aren't meant for that
05:47<plank>yea, jus tanything that works from usb, full os
05:47<plank>liek i have ubuntu
05:47<grawity>i.e. going through the full debian (or ubuntu) installer
05:47<plank>full os on usb
05:47<grawity>and pretending your USB stick is a HDD (which it'll show up as, anyway)
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05:48<grawity>no "live" nonsense
05:48<annadane>oh, right.
05:48<annadane>god damnit. why did i never think of that?
05:48<plank>but i was told rufus is not good for that
05:48<grawity>yes, *that* is not something rufus or any other third-party tool could do easily
05:48<plank>how do we do said *that* ?
05:48<grawity>you really need to go through the installer, or at least debootstrap + stuff
05:48<annadane>as grawity said, you can just run it all off of a USB stick using the regular (non live) installer
05:48<plank>bootstrap bill
05:49<annadane>i'm so sorry, that never even occured to me
05:49<grawity>booting the installer might be easiest
05:49<grawity>just make sure to pick the correct "disk"
05:49<plank>im confused
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05:49<annadane>they're a beginner, and have no idea how to do this
05:49<plank>what do i have to do
05:49<grawity>well teach them how to install standard Debian to a standard computer
05:49<arto>copy debian installer image to usb, and boot from it
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05:50<plank>i can with rufus
05:50<plank>btu they say no good
05:50<grawity>arto: but will it let you install back to the *same* USB?
05:50<arto>just make sure, you install to hd, not usb
05:50<plank>i dont want in hd
05:50<plank>want on usb
05:50<arto>oh, then on usb
05:50<plank>so can i use rufus or no ?
05:50<plank>iv edone it 20 times in the past with various os
05:50<grawity>plank: you can use rufus for the *installer*, but not for the final persistent system
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05:51<arto>I justed helped one guy on user forum, that had accidentally installed debian on usb stick where he had installation image
05:51<plank>of ocurse
05:51<plank>that my usual method
05:51<annadane>you can just do it the same way one would for install on the hd, yes?
05:51<plank>rufus the iso on to a installer usb, the ninstall it to other usb
05:51<grawity>plank: then, sure, do exactly that
05:51<plank>but i was told rufus can corrupt stiff in linux os's
05:51<annadane>yeah it can
05:51<annadane>but i guess this is an exception
05:51<grawity>it depends on how the iso was made, and which rufus mode you use to write it
05:52<grawity>many distros' ISOs are already hybrid CD&USB images, and rufus *might* mess it up (unetbootin certainly does)
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05:52<plank>god knows then
05:52<grawity>but rufus has two modes – one is "make a USB image from a CD image", which might mess things up or it might not
05:53<grawity>and the other is "write this image to USB exactly as is", which will *never* change anything
05:53<annadane>yeah, so i apologize. i never knew anything like this
05:53<annadane>i've been saying "consider not using it"
05:54<plank>wat iso do i need then?
05:54<plank>i can tfind it myself
05:54<plank>too many options 'arm64' etc
05:54<grawity>well, the one that's made for your CPU
05:54<plank>i dont know
05:54<annadane>you probably want amd64, you have windows installed on the same computer
05:54<grawity>"regular" 64-bit CPUs are built on the amd64 (x86_64) architecture
05:54<plank>i have a lenovo x230
05:55<grawity>that's amd64 / x86_64, yes
05:55<plank>thats a small iso
05:55<plank>how so
05:55<grawity>that's a "netinstall" iso
05:55<grawity>i.e. it downloads latest packages over the network
05:56<grawity>doesn't matter if you use netinstall or full, really
05:56<grawity>if you choose the "DD Image" option there, rufus won't corrupt anything
05:57<plank>that lnk wont open for me
05:58<plank>got it now
05:58<plank>i will try it out. thanks
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06:00<plank>wats the advantage of debian over ubuntu ?
06:01<arto>stable debian is tested and errrors removed
06:02<plank>and the disadvantage?
06:02<arto>I have not found any
06:02<mda42>Ubuntu just updates frequently. Many cracks and potholes.
06:02<annadane>ubuntu is based off debian testing/unstable which means it's more likely to break than debian. you do get older packages in debian but they all tend to work. the system won't randomly crash. debian also has a social contract, which means it won't spy on you or do anything nefarious
06:03<mda42>True fact.
06:03<annadane>and you _can_ get some newer packages through something called backports, or from downloading it and putting it in its own folder where it won't touch the base system
06:04<arto>I've use debian 18 years, ubuntu 2 hours, maybe a bit biased, but I find Debian better
06:04<petn-randall>Ubuntu had a good stretch, I used it a couple of years until they trashed the user experience with the amazon search lense.
06:04<plank>but to people who dont know about that stuff.. ubuntu does look better.. best looking linux os lol
06:05*petn-randall shrugs.
06:05<annadane>as i said in the other channel you can basically customize it to look however you want, moreso than ubuntu in fact
06:05<annadane>there are different desktops with different looks
06:05<petn-randall>plank: Looks are to get your attention. You stay for other things.
06:05<plank>ubuntu looks so damn good tho
06:06<dpkg>If you want to laugh, use heh or hah or bwahahaha. lol doesn't sound like laughter at all and makes you look like an AOL user.
06:06*annadane kicks petn-randall
06:06<plank>lol reminds me of a lolling head staring at the screen
06:06<EmleyMoor>Ubuntu seems to pander to the SNS afflicted
06:07<plank>i tried 'hehe' for a while, but someone said it was stupid
06:07<plank>went bac kto 'lol'.. sometimes 'kik' when i miss
06:07<plank>i have a feeling ubuntu is more gui based tho ? i dont like terminal
06:07<annadane>as i was saying, the two major things you must remember about debian are not to install testing or unstable packages into your debian stable system, and do not use the root account unless absolutely necessary
06:07<annadane>apart from that, perhaps subscribe to the security mailing list and update vulnerable packages
06:08<annadane>if you don't like the command line and really really want to avoid it (simply updating packages is very simple though) there's synaptic
06:08<arto>plank: you dont like terminal, learn, you loose so much
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06:09<plank>i dont like to learn it. people who enjoy it, great. but many dont
06:09<annadane>also do *not* download random packages ending in .deb from the internet and install them, and don't just blindly copy commands you find on the internet
06:09<ananriq>hello to all
06:09<annadane>when in doubt, ask us first
06:09<ananriq>asalam o alykum to all
06:09<annadane>and *especially* any instructions on the internet telling you to use sudo or su or the root account... are typically, not always, but typically bad
06:09<plank>hare krishna
06:09<annadane>hi ananriq
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06:10<plank>sometimes i have little option but to blindly copy and paste i nhope it will work
06:10<annadane> describes all this and is probably *the* most important thing to read. anything else, you can more or less figure out later, but avoiding the root account basically makes you safe
06:10<annadane>no; it's better to know what you're doing
06:10<petn-randall>hi ananriq
06:11<plank>i will test debian first. and the most imporant thing.. if i can get it loking nice.. i may dive deeper ;)
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06:11<ananriq>anyone can tell me the default name and password of parrot os 4.1
06:11<dpkg>Parrot OS ( is a security and penetration testing distribution. It is based on Debian testing, but it is not Debian and is not supported in #debian. Seek help in #parrot on or try the mailing lists at Also ask me about <based on debian>.
06:12<ananriq>i can,t login as a root in parrot 4.1
06:12<petn-randall>ananriq: Try asking in the right channel. See above. ^^^
06:12<annadane>plank, the graphical installer should be straightforward enough but if you like, there's install instructions here:
06:12<annadane>seeing as how you're installing to USB with limited space, i'd only install one desktop from the list, when it asks you
06:12<annadane>as i said, xfce is fairly intuitive
06:12<plank>thanks, im usually ok with installing
06:12<plank>well icould usea 32gb usb
06:12<plank>it has a windows 7 usb on it
06:13<plank>but its to oslow for usb really
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06:13<annadane>it will wipe out all data on that disk, keep in mind
06:13<plank>win 7 is not suited to usb realy
06:13<plank>great os though
06:13<annadane>stop, my goggles are fogging over with nostalgia.
06:13<plank>apart from the snooping which apparently has filtered wdown from win 10 into win 7 now
06:14<annadane>i've never even used windows 10. i hear it's absolutely miserable
06:14<petn-randall>It's a PITA to get work done on.
06:14<annadane>my last windows was 7
06:14<plank>it looks a bit half baked, gettin gbretter tho. but the privascy is non exixtent i think lol
06:14<petn-randall>The start menu is cluttered with ads for games and other things.
06:14<plank>u use windows 10 for doing stuff, and games
06:14<annadane>also, if you're a gamer, you'll find it harder on linux than windows, fair warning
06:15<plank>oh yea.. i will keep wind 10 for my stea mcollection
06:15<plank>lpove my driving game, got a driving wheel
06:15<plank>was using ubuntu pretty wel ltho.. for a lot of apps
06:15<plank>its gettign better.
06:15<annadane>any problems you have, feel free to ask us, we do our best to be helpful
06:15<petn-randall>You can attach the driving wheel to your music player, though ;)
06:15<annadane>except when i'm here...
06:15<annadane>which is most of the time...
06:15<petn-randall>Linux allows stuff like that, hehehe
06:15*annadane leaves
06:16<annadane>synaptic is a graphical tool to install/remove packages etc, for people who don't like the terminal
06:17<annadane>but check out the handbook, it's quite well written, it's not something to be scared of, just don't blindly rush into it
06:17<annadane>it says "jessie" when the newest debian is stretch, bit outdated but most of it still applies
06:17<plank>im used to windows.. blind rushing full speed ahead. anything else seems like an unacceptable delay lol
06:17<annadane>though now i sort of wonder when they're going to update it, buster isn't that far off
06:18<annadane>speaking of which if you use debian, in a year's time you may consider updating it to buster, which is the next debian stable
06:18<annadane>don't worry about that for now though
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06:19<annadane>for now consider subscribing to and
06:20<annadane>also consider maybe keeping a notebook around for solutions to problems so you don't have to remember what you did later, and again, don't just blindly copy commands and especially not from internet websites
06:20<plank>i will keep all the links on a file
06:20<annadane>hope that's not too much info
06:20<plank>yea. i tried to d othat, still got a bit bogged under, but it does help
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06:20<annadane>(i still don't do that and i should)
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06:23<plank>the download is ready, i will configure rufus as per the picture
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06:23<annadane>oh i guess there's also
06:25<annadane>i think, once you get the fundamentals down you'll feel good about debian as an operating system, it may be slow going at first
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06:25<plank>jeez.. my rufus looks totally diferent to that pic
06:25<plank>im on version 3.1
06:26<plank>and has very few options
06:28<plank>i have no options on mine
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06:30<plank>mine looks like that only
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06:34<plank>erm? should i progress with defualt settings?
06:36<plank>on the confrimatio nscreen i have option of either iso or dd image
06:36<plank>im choosing dd image
06:36<plank>hope thats right
06:37<b17>stay focused, read then act
06:37<plank>another recommended read lol
06:37<annadane>that faq is great
06:37<plank>this is turning into an encycloedia here
06:37<annadane>in terms of humour
06:39<annadane>b17, in fairness, it's not clear what plank is meant to do by just linking that
06:39<plank>i choose dd, cos a guy mentioned it earlier
06:39<plank>hope it swas right
06:39<annadane>oh, right. i missed that message. yeah, seems ok
06:40<b17>dd was already suggested earlier, not getting in the way sorry
06:40<plank>can i acces this chat when i get debain installed off the bat?
06:40<annadane>you're only installing to usb so you should still have access to your computer
06:40<plank>ure not getting in te way b17.. i just came to linux hoping for easy answer, not wanting to have to study for mnonths
06:40<jm_>no, that would lead to!
06:40<plank>yea, but i will have to keep turning off the installation to contct you
06:40<annadane>er... how so?
06:40<plank>can i join this chat in debian at all ?
06:41<plank>cos i need to turn this off t oinstall debian
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06:41<plank>cant hav ethis os on at same time
06:41<annadane>what irc client are you using?
06:41<plank>oftc via hexchat
06:41<EmleyMoor>Yes, use an IRC client in Debian...
06:41<annadane>if you're installing to usb you can still have regular use of your computer
06:41<plank>yes, but not at same time
06:41<plank>i have to boot int othis os t ouse it
06:42<plank>if i cna access chat in debian, i dont have to boot anywhere ele
06:42<plank>i will give it a go installing
06:42<plank>bak in a bit
06:43<annadane>i'm sorry i just don't understand the question and why you have to disconnect the computer in order to boot the usb
06:43<plank>im installing to a usb
06:43<plank>how can i instal lan os whe nthis os is already running?
06:44<plank>i need to reboot, and go through install procedure
06:44<jm_>presumably the OS that is on USB now will be overwritten, hence the question
06:44<Zelda>plank: either debootstrap, or using an bootable installer: Boot the installer and choose your USB drive as the hard disk there.
06:44<jm_>at least if I got it right
06:45<plank>i simply boot up, choose the debiuan dd image, the ninstal lit to my other usb stick
06:45<plank>i can tdo any of that until i shut down this os lol
06:45<Zelda>jm_, annadane: He wants to install Debian onto his USB drive. But he's asking _how_ this will work while he's already running Debian...
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06:48<carder>hey sir i need some help
06:48<b17>I thought it was rufus on windows, but i hope it all works out
06:48<Zelda>Ask your question.
06:49<carder>I have to card a website which accepts only visa and master cards so from which site should i buy credit card details because i already got scammed from many websites
06:49<annadane>that's off topic for #debian
06:49<yefri>hi, i new usr
06:49<carder>yes any help
06:50<Zelda>Hi, yefri.
06:50<carder>anybody knows carding
06:50<annadane>carder, i said, off topic for #debia
06:50<annadane>and we don't know anyway
06:50<annadane>please ask elsewhere
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06:51<annadane>in fact you're probably likely to get scammed anyway from the sound of it so just don't bother but i have no clue what you're doing
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06:52<yefri>1 question, how install java .tar
06:52<jm_>yefri: why don't you use what debian provides instead?
06:52<annadane>yeah, just use debian's java (default-jre package)
06:53<Zelda>jm_: too old version I guess. There's Java 9 already.
06:53<annadane>apt install default-jre
06:53<annadane>shouldn't need anything else unless otherwise specified
06:54<yefri>yes i need the new version
06:54<annadane>for what?
06:55<yefri>play rune xd
06:55<annadane>runescape? you don't, i guess it depends on how you're accessing it
06:55<annadane>you mean through the browser?
06:56<annadane>for something like firefox you used to be able to install icedtea-plugin but they dropped that
06:56<Zelda>iirc runescape doesn't need a Java applet.
06:56<annadane>i just use for which java 8 works fine, which is what default-jre provides in debian stable
06:56<Zelda>It should already be HTML5, or Flash-based.
06:56<annadane>(conversely it actually *doesn't* work with java 9/10)
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06:58<yefri>yes, but still runs with java
06:58<annadane>though if you want to play it using the link i posted you also need libarchive-extract-perl
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06:58<rush>plank here
06:58<rush>on my main laptop
06:58<annadane>hi plank
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06:58<rush>installing deban on the lenovo
06:58<rush>its said i needed extra driver sor soemthing#
06:59<rush>but i dont have them
06:59<rush>so no internet connection while installing
06:59<jm_>for wireless?
06:59<petn-randall>rush: firmware for wireless?
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06:59<rush>needs firmware files to operate
06:59<annadane>!non-free firmware
06:59<yefri>I will try with the link
06:59<petn-randall>rush: You should be able to finish the installation by plugging in to ethernet. Or you need to use the firmware installer.
06:59<jm_>!firmware images
06:59<dpkg>Unofficial <netinst> and DVD installer images containing non-free Debian firmware packages are available for installing Debian 9 "Stretch". See and ask me about <install guide>.
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06:59<annadane>thank you. :/
07:00<rush>and 6000g2a-5.ucode#
07:00<annadane>yefri, basically just apt install default-jre libarchive-extract-perl and you ought to get it running by invoking it with "perl" (but don't run it as root, exit root after you installed those packages)
07:01<rush>alsoit asked for my name duering install. 'your real name is a godo idea'
07:01<rush>doesnt sound very secure ot me
07:02<EmleyMoor>rush: An installer from the link above is a good idea. Don't worry about it asking your name, that's just to help it set up your account
07:02<rush>i dont understand how to use file directories
07:03<annadane>oh you can enter whatever name you want
07:03<annadane>it doesn't need to be yours, just remember what you entered
07:03<EmleyMoor>rush: Sorry? What is it you don't understand exactly?
07:04<rush>that link
07:04<rush>what to do with it
07:04<EmleyMoor>rush: Put it in a web browser
07:04<annadane>yefri, just use and extract the tar
07:04<annadane>don't bother with the "debian instructions"
07:04<rush>extract the tar adn do wat with it?
07:04<rush>how to add it to the installer?
07:04<annadane>anything using sudo in online instructions should be avoided
07:04<EmleyMoor>rush: You are amiss
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07:05<EmleyMoor>Erk, my client broke it
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07:05<rush>now my intsaller says 'continue without network mirror?'
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07:05<rush>i might have to bail lol
07:05<annadane>yeah because the wifi needs firmware to work
07:05<rush>i cant even get the thing installed smoothly
07:05<annadane>so you need the firmware image
07:05<EmleyMoor>rush: Get a *new* installer FROM THE LINK ABOVE
07:05<rush>well why dont they put wifi in ther elike all other installers ?!
07:06<annadane>this is due to debian's commitment to free software, it will not include proprietary software like firmware by default
07:06<rush>i see
07:06<rush>can it read lan ?
07:06<rush>or watever it scalled
07:06<EmleyMoor>rush: Wired ethernet? Maybe... same caveat
07:07<duclicsic>there are unofficial debian images that come with all the firmware included, use at your own risk:
07:07<rush>then ill try reinstall with the ethernet plugged in
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07:07<rush>i canbt do this every day lol. i have work to do
07:07<rush>just want to use stuff, hence windows
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07:07<annadane>i think the link you want is
07:08<annadane>yeah well see, windows includes all that stuff by default because it doesn't care
07:08<rush>im flooeded with links here
07:08<rush>no idea wat to use
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07:08<annadane>the debian project respects the user hence excludes firmware by default
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07:08<annadane>or rather, non-free versions
07:08<EmleyMoor>rush: The one annadane just gave you is fine
07:08<Zelda>rush: Use annadane's last link.
07:08<rush>thats admirabgle, but its not good for casual users
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07:08<rush>just makes it hard
07:09<EmleyMoor>rush: The installer can hardly be called a casual user
07:09<Zelda>rush: What about following instead of keep complaining? :)
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07:09<rush>how about stop pretending linux is easy?
07:09<Zelda>We never said that.
07:10<annadane>i think it's not so much that linux is hard, so much as "different"
07:10<rush>andim not com,plainign for no reason
07:10<rush>peope tell me its no problem to use, and i cnat even install it
07:10<rush>bt im being as patient as possible, adn could do without ure remark
07:10<EmleyMoor>rush: You're complaining for the sake of it having got the answer
07:10<Zelda>rush: The error is mostly at the screen, not inside the computer.
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07:11<rush>yea well, i dsont see the point in using this system, it will just give me a headache
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07:11<annadane>please slow down a bit.
07:12<rush>I CANNOT be doing with linux
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07:12<blast007>rush: have you read the install guide?
07:13<dpkg>i heard stretch installation guide is The Installation Guide for Debian 9 "Stretch" can be found at . See also <errata> and <stretch release notes>.
07:13<EmleyMoor>rush: Why don't you patiently take the advice you're being given?
07:14<annadane>with the benefit of hindsight we might have given you the non-free link. sorry. it's one of the only sticking points with debian. most other things should be smooth
07:14<rush>because with windows you dont need to be patient, and people tell me linux is the same, but its not. if im gonna have to troubleshoot every 5 minutes, im not interested. i said that from the start
07:14<annadane>it's not clear that debian doesn't do this, a lot of other distros do (provide the necessary firmware)
07:15<EmleyMoor>Who areo "people"?
07:15<rush>people who tell me of course. many
07:15<EmleyMoor>You are *NOT* going to have to troubleshoot every 5 minutes
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07:15<annadane>i *would* troubleshoot every 5 minutes on windows
07:15<EmleyMoor>rush: Do these people use this channel?
07:16<rush>most linux users say linx is as easy as wind0ws yes. and thier 'granny can use it' is another popular one
07:16<rush>its dishonest
07:16<b17>I don't understand why someone whol likes windows would want to use linux?
07:16<EmleyMoor>Are these "most Linux users" on this channelL?
07:16<arto>my mam is 73, she uses Debian every day
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07:16<EmleyMoor>Has anyone said "my granny could *install* Linux"?
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07:17<Zelda>rush: Every OS has its advantages and disadvantages. If you'd be only familar with Linux then you would do say the same with Windows, I guess. So, get and install whats first your needs best and in the easiest way and stop keep complaining here, please.
07:17<EmleyMoor>(using is NOT the same as installing)
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07:17<rush>no zelda. ive tried linx over the last 15 years.. ive had to sweat much more over linux, and still cant use it well
07:17<arto>EmleyMoor: I know, I installede it, but it not hard to use
07:17<rush>its just not easy like windows
07:17<annadane>i'm not sure anyone's going to convince anyone here. rush, try it with the non-free installer
07:17<@abrotman>Easy like a Sunday morning?
07:18-!-mode/#debian [+l 538] by debhelper
07:18<arto>rush: only if you are used to windows
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07:18<rush>yewa.. easy like a snooping sunday morning. i dont like windows 10 snooping. that swhy i like linux, plus it looks good and stable. i just cant use it is all, and limited softwares for it
07:19<@abrotman>rush: No one is forcing you to use Debian, if it doesn't suit you, try another distro
07:19<rush>no arto, windwos takes MUCH LESS getting used to
07:19<rush>ive tried many distros
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07:19<EmleyMoor>I remember having a major row with a parts supplier once that "this motherboard is fine until you put a sound card in, then Windows goes apepuckies" - it would have been easier to prove a motherboard fault with Linux
07:19<b17>How to Install Debian (with Pictures) - wikiHow
07:19<rush>debian was recommended cos i wont have to use terminal much. apparentlty
07:19<Zelda>b17: lol
07:19<arto>rush: that's because you use windows more than linux
07:19<annadane>i recommended debian because it's a fantastic and stable OS, not using the terminal is secondary
07:20<EmleyMoor>Windows in
07:20<annadane>and you can largely avoid it
07:20<rush>its becase it takes longer to lean linux if u start from the same point
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07:20<EmleyMoor>... is ubiquitous therefore more familiar
07:20<arto>rush: you can't prove that
07:20<rush>anyoen who denies that is a fanboy, im sorry
07:20*petn-randall yawns.
07:20<annadane>petn-randall, more coffee
07:20<Anarka>so... how about that weather ?
07:20<@abrotman>rush: that depends on the type of user you are .. If you're just an average desktop user, and all your hardware works, there's really no difference .. Learning is learning.
07:20<petn-randall>Trolling used to be a lot better back in the day.
07:20<rush>im not trolling ,thats why
07:20<annadane>i don't think this is trolling, let's not start that
07:21<Zelda>Trolling looks different.
07:21<EmleyMoor>This is ludditing
07:21<annadane>apt install thesaurus
07:22<rush>insult me and im gone back to windows
07:22<rush>i dont much care
07:22<Zelda>We're not insulting you.
07:22<petn-randall>rush: FYI, there was a published study that migrating from MS Office 2003 to Openoffice is less work than migrating to MS Office 2007.
07:23<petn-randall>That was for retraining personell to use the new software.
07:23-!-mode/#debian [-o abrotman] by abrotman
07:23<annadane>rush, the thing is, the people who have told you things about what linux is or isn't aren't likely to be malicious and we're not trying to be either, we're here to help you do this as comfortably as possible
07:23<annadane>the non-free image *will* work and sorry for not suggesting it earlier
07:24<b17>but skipping the instal guide and other documentation is not the best way, sorry.
07:24<EmleyMoor>I've been using those non-free images for years - they are a standard part of my bootable USB stick
07:24<Zelda>I have to say WIows has thass installer so far. Just my two cents :)
07:25<annadane>i'll generally forego using them unless i need to, i'd use a live image first and check for the firmware it needs
07:25<EmleyMoor>(I've used them for friends and for my own five machines)
07:25<Zelda>I have to say Windows has the easierst installer so far. Just my two cents :)
07:25<Anarka>everything is easy if you only press next, same with debian
07:25<abrotman>rush: are you having problems we can actually help with?
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07:26<petn-randall>Personally, I'd like to have an installer that just asks a few important questions, and then just pulls through with it. Windows installer unfortunately asks every other minute about some random crap.
07:26<abrotman>While being unhappy with the state of the installer is unfortunate, it's not something we can really fix today.
07:26<annadane>also the windows installer by default installs a ton of bloat and spyware
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07:26<arto>Zelda: does the windows installer still overwrite linux partitions?
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07:26<abrotman>we can point you toward the non-free images, which I'd recommend
07:26<abrotman>arto: no
07:26<Zelda>petn-randall: wut? no.
07:27<Zelda>arto: Not in Windows 10 anymore.
07:27<abrotman>arto: I mean, optionally .. but no
07:27<annadane>well i know if you plan to dual boot you install windows first
07:27<annadane>oh, ok
07:27<annadane>this is kind of the problem of "windows is easier", i swear that for a lot of things it isn't
07:27<blast007>petn-randall: when is the last time you installed Windows? 1998? :)
07:27<annadane>for some things, certainly gaming, it may be
07:28<petn-randall>blast007: Installed Windows 10 the other day.
07:28<abrotman>Anyway .....
07:28<petn-randall>blast007: Base install is about 20 GB, and it doesn't even bring any software besides MS edge with it.
07:28<annadane>and even gaming is basically the only reason some people still use it
07:28<petn-randall>With 20 GB you got a full blown Debian installation with tons of software.
07:28<Zelda>petn-randall: "Apps" P
07:29<petn-randall>Zelda: Yeah, but it's annoying if you just want a Windows VM to do your taxes.
07:29<rush>windows is easier. it might not be better all the time.. but it is easier
07:29<rush>so, what iso do i actally need? i will repeat the process
07:29*abrotman looks around for #debian
07:29<annadane>and if you think that, fair enough
07:29<abrotman>dpkg: firmware images
07:29<dpkg>Unofficial <netinst> and DVD installer images containing non-free Debian firmware packages are available for installing Debian 9 "Stretch". See and ask me about <install guide>.
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07:29<annadane>anyway, i linked you the installer, do you need it again?
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07:29<annadane>no but i linked a specific one
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07:29<ompaul>abrotman: it is - I assure you, also I'm slightly stunned. ;-)
07:30<Zelda>I run Windows physically, because my Intel NUC doesn't really like any Linux. But using Linux in a VM saves more ressources than Windows in a VM.
07:30*abrotman winks at ompaul
07:30<arto>rush: I've been running Debian 18 years, my wife used windows till windows 8, then she saw things can be done easily, and asked me to install Debian
07:30<annadane>a lot of things we dismiss as hard can be easy with a little patience, it's one of the greatest flaws of being human
07:31<annadane>i and many others have the same problem
07:31<Zelda>annadane: what problem?
07:31<rush>no arto, ive tried both a lot, and most people would agree with me
07:31<ompaul>not buying nucs
07:31<annadane>of giving up because something is slightly harder than we want to put in the effort for
07:31<rush>theres a reasomn linux is free but only has a tiny user base.. whether its good or not
07:31<annadane>well linux is free because microsoft vastly overcharges for windows
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07:31<arto>rush: you speak most people, but where they are?
07:32*abrotman notes Linux runs the majority of servers in the world, by a far margin
07:32<rush>what do i have to download there?
07:32<Zelda>annadane: Huh? I paid 40 EUR for Windows 10 Pro :D
07:32<abrotman>rush: download where?
07:32<annadane>rush, it autodownloades
07:32<rush>arto, they are pstying for and ysing windows.. 98% of the populous ?
07:32<rush>u will find them there
07:32<ompaul>rush: people don't know (A) how easy it is to run and (B) the four freedoms make it look like it is some kind of madness when you are used to paying for something so they think there is a catch
07:32<ompaul>ask any apple fanboi
07:32<rush>a) its not easy to run
07:32<rush>ive been trying on and off for over 10 years
07:32<rush>ndex of /cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current
07:32<rush>i dont get an auto download
07:33<Zelda>rush: (a) might be true for yourself only.
07:33<rush>just an index
07:33<annadane>the link i gave, autodownloads
07:33<rush>zelda a) might be true for anyone without bais. i dont care wat works. if it works i use it
07:34<rush>this is firmware only?
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07:34<rush>wat do i do with that?
07:34<Zelda>rush: No, it's the Debian installer with the firmware included.
07:34<ompaul>it installs
07:34<Zelda>It's bigger.
07:34<annadane>install it in the same way you did the other one
07:35<ompaul>rush: don't rush into being critical, ask why you have to jump through hoops and why those vendors are not your friends, yes, the vendors who make it hard for you to install it. Also be aware if the box came with windows 10 and is amd64 it will most likely need a tweek to run off windows only in the eufi or bios
07:36<rush>im not rushing, ive spent over ten years trying linux
07:36<rush>ytes i understand some of its strentght, and acknowledge them
07:36<rush>if u dont want to admit it weaknes, then ok
07:37<abrotman>Please, stick to support
07:38-!-mode/#debian [+l 546] by debhelper
07:38<rush>then people stop addressing me about it
07:38<abrotman>That's a suggestion for *everyone*. Thanks
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07:45<annadane>hi rodan
07:45<rodan>hi bro
07:45<rodan>where are u from
07:45<annadane>do you have a debian question?
07:45<rodan>yes bro
07:46<rodan>while using the external monitors
07:46<rodan>iam not able to switch the modes
07:46<rodan>betwwen monitor only
07:46<rodan>and extend monitor
07:46<rodan>can i have solution?
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07:49<Rush_>probably rodan, but not from me. i cant even get mine installed lol
07:49<annadane>rodan, i don't know. maybe someone else does
07:49<rodan>which is the best linux distro
07:49<dpkg>Best for what? Please define what you mean by "best". Gloria Gaynor! Tina Turner! Aretha Franklin! Men without Hats! Women without Hats! Men at Work! Women at Play! Anyone for Tennis!
07:49<rodan>best for android development
07:49<Rush_>men without hats cleaerly
07:49<rodan>iam having i3 3rd gen processor
07:50-!-Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
07:50<rodan>with 6gb ram
07:50<annadane>no idea, i don't do android development. i guess debian is fine?
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07:51<rodan>which operating system do u use then
07:51<rodan>pure debian?
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07:51<rodan>iam using parrot security os based on debian
07:51<Rush_>pure, unadulterated ,and unfirmwared
07:51<rodan>how is it?
07:51<Rush_>got my firmwae iso.. will try again
07:51<annadane>debian itself is lovely
07:52<annadane>!why debian
07:52<dpkg>Debian strives to maintain your freedom whilst also paying close attention to the technical aspects of making a great OS. Debian is stable, upgradable and well tested. See also . As an added bonus, you get to ask questions in #debian.
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07:52<rodan>how familiar are u with the bash
07:52<Rush_>is debian to do with that linux guy, or that other guy with beard and long hair ?
07:52<arto>rodan: this channel is for Debian support
07:53<rodan>yes i know bro
07:53<rodan>but iam a beginner
07:53<rodan>so i want to know the resources to learn debian
07:53<annadane>i guess "the linux guy" is torvalds, and the "other guy" is stallman... sure, debian is a linux distribution, torvalds wrote the kernel, stallman and the GNU project developed many of the applications
07:53<rodan>from its core
07:53<arto>beginner using parrot, which is not Debian
07:53<Rush_>me too. can offer emotional support only
07:53<Rush_>i see. so a joint venture
07:53<Rush_>stallman yes
07:54<rodan>how to learn bash guys?
07:54<mda42>No fkn way. Bjarne Stroustrup all the way.
07:54<annadane>more or less but not specific cooperation. the GNU project was trying to develop their own operating system using the hurd kernel but it was too difficult, torvalds independently developed his own kernel and called it linux
07:54<annadane>rodan, try
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07:55<Rush_>i8 might put my name as richard stallman when installing
07:55<dpkg>Before asking in here or on the <debian-user> mailing list, you should read the Installation Guide, or if you already have Debian installed, the Debian Reference. The Debian Administrator's Handbook is also good. Ask me about <ig>, <overview>, <reference>, <refcard>, <docs>, <manuals>, <fundamentals>, <newbiedoc>, <faq>, <unix lessons>, <general cli tutorial>, <debian-handbook> (e.g. in your IRC client, type /msg dpkg reference).
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07:55<jm_>rodan: see above
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07:57<rodan>what to see jm_:??
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07:57*annadane is a bit surprised to see greycat's site not in https
07:57*ompaul doffs hat to annadane
07:58<rodan>who is annadane
07:58<rodan>in actual
07:58<rodan>can u describe urself
07:58<annadane>no not really
07:58<annadane>and off-topic
07:58<arto>rodan: I told you this is Debian support channel
07:58<rodan>plz bro iam now computer engineering student
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07:59<rodan>and i want to getinto the deep of linux
08:00<annadane>!tell rodan about newcomer
08:01<annadane>rodan, check your private messages
08:01<ompaul>annadane: he has a https
08:01<Rush_>i have a choice of two network interfaces?
08:01<Rush_>does nit matter waht i select?
08:01<Rush_>does it *
08:01<annadane>because you have the firmware image already i don't think it matters
08:02<ompaul>Rush_: if you have it wired up do that for your install, it is just so much easier.
08:02<annadane>one should be e and one should be w
08:02<annadane>oh, is it easier, ok
08:02<Rush_>its still wireless
08:02<Rush_>i can start again wired..
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08:03<rodan>how can i update the kernel of debian bro
08:03<rodan>only kernel
08:03<rodan>to beta version
08:03<annadane>um... depends which one you want
08:03<annadane>but you can use the one from backports
08:03<annadane>!tell rodan about backports
08:04<rodan>what is backport
08:04<annadane>dpkg told you; check your private messages
08:04<dpkg>annadane: parse error: dunno what the heck you're talking about
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08:05<Rush__>wired now
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08:05<ompaul>rodan: if you don't know much about debian I strongly suggest you should work with a stable box and when you know your way around then consider various changes like that.
08:05<Rush__>still get the same massage
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08:05<Rush__>enp0s25, or wlp3s0
08:06<annadane>rodan, also, if you're on parrot, the debian kernel may/probably not/won't work
08:06<Rush__>doesnt matter ?
08:06<annadane>just use enp
08:06<annadane>if you have a wired connection
08:06<annadane>parrot is not debian and the two are not meant to work together
08:07<rodan>yes bro
08:07<rodan>it is debian based
08:07<annadane>also i don't recommend using kali or parrot for a daily desktop
08:07<ompaul>rodan: also be aware that parrot should have its own support channels not here and based on debian is not a good idea either
08:07<annadane>no, debian based does not mean distributions will work with each other
08:07<annadane>!based on debian
08:07<dpkg>Your distribution may be based on and have software in common with Debian, but it is not Debian. We don't and cannot know what changes were made by your distribution (compare #debian only supports Debian and pure <blend>s; please respect our choice to volunteer here to help Debian users. Support for other distributions is off-topic on #debian, even if your own distro's channel is clueless or non-existent.
08:07<arto>rodan: there are about 130 debian based distributions
08:07<Rush__>domian name configure?
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08:07<Rush__>oi dont have one
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08:07<annadane>ignore it
08:07<ompaul>Rush__: just hit enter
08:08-!-mode/#debian [+l 552] by debhelper
08:08<rodan>why you dont recommend to use kali or parrot as dailydriver?
08:08<annadane>for a number of reasons
08:08<annadane>it's just saner/safer not to
08:08<rodan>can u tell some
08:08<ompaul>because we use debian and you are now offtopic
08:08<annadane>but whatever, use what you want; just don't install debian software in parrot
08:09<annadane>you'll break your system very likely
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08:09<rodan>while installing it installed me like debian
08:09<rodan>same ui
08:09<rodan>same installation
08:09<Zelda>But still not Debian.
08:09<rodan>man why
08:09<rodan>how can it be possible
08:09<annadane>please listen to what we're saying and stop disagreeing the second someone tells you something
08:10<arto>rodan: why it is called parrot then?
08:10<annadane>because they're fundamentally different even if there are similarities
08:10<Zelda>It's "based" on Debian. This means they have their own website, own repo, own git, ... and they might have changed some packages.
08:10<Zelda>Same with Ubuntu.
08:11<b17>it's like how frozen pizza is based on real pizza
08:11<Rush__>all files in one partition or a seperate home partition?
08:11<Rush__>#using a 32 gb sb
08:11<ompaul>Rush__: one
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08:11<annadane>one is fine, there are pros and cons to both approaches
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08:12<annadane>i guess i probably should put my /home seperately actually but oh well
08:12<Rush__>this set up system looks like windows xp lol. i like it
08:12<Rush__>well ,its all one now
08:12<Rush__>i cant see how it can be a big problem
08:12<Zelda>I have my /home on a second hard disk :P
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08:12<annadane>it's just basically, if your main drive fails then it won't take your home directory with it
08:12<Rush__>apart from maybe not being able to access the folder on windows or soemthing
08:12<ompaul>Zelda: yeah and I bet you are not living with a 32G disk ;-)
08:12<annadane>and i guess some security reasons
08:12<Rush__>i see
08:13<annadane>having everything in one is fine though, it depends what you want
08:13<Zelda>ompaul: 64 GB SSD for Debian, 1 TB hard disk for /home :)
08:13*annadane really wants a 1 TB SSD
08:13<Zelda>If you have the money :D
08:14<rodan_>best system specifications to run the debian??
08:14<rodan_>iam gonna install it
08:14<rodan_>and best desktop environment
08:14<arto>rodan: there are not
08:14<rodan_>what not
08:14<arto>rodan: and no best de
08:15<rodan_>which do u use?
08:15<annadane>rodan_, here's a hint
08:15<Rush__>not best.. maybe personal preference.. or best depending wat u want to do
08:15<arto>rodan: opinions
08:15<ompaul>rodan_: please stop hitting enter after every couple of words, it is very annoying, use a longer line and some commas to break things up.
08:15<rodan_>ok sure.
08:15<annadane>also if you do it too often the bot will kick you for spam
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08:16<rodan_>sorry annadane: i won't be doing so from now.
08:17<Rush__>83% completed
08:17<annadane>what are you looking for in a desktop, it's possible to recommend one based on your needs
08:17<Rush__>stil loks linke win xp lol. maybe i will get the old familier desktop when its done
08:17<annadane>i like xfce, it's very nice
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08:17<rodan_>so as u said parrot is not debian and its not good to use as the daily operating system.its oka but i need the tools for penetrating the security.Do u have any idea how would i be finding those repos and installing each of them its so hard dude
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08:18<arto>annadane: +1, not spesific to Debian though
08:18<annadane>in debian?
08:18<Rush__>i love how ubnutu looks personally. fantastic and classy, whatever htey se, i forgot again
08:18<annadane>some of them may already be in the repo
08:18<ompaul>rodan_: apt search packagename-goes-here
08:18<annadane>otherwise you can download them from the internet and install them to their own folders so they don't interfere with the base system
08:18<rodan_>i need to install all the penetration to in the debian as much they are in kali linux
08:18<Rush__>now.. archive mirror country? im currently in asia but not all the time, europe also
08:18<Rush__>doesnt reallty matter what i choose?
08:18<annadane>use that one
08:18<annadane>it's a redirector which picks the closest one
08:19<Rush__>have to enter that manually ?
08:19<annadane>oh sorry, country
08:19<Rush__>cos i just get a country list here yea
08:19<annadane>well where are you right now, pick that one
08:19<annadane>it doesn't really matter
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08:20<annadane>if you're using it really won't matter anyway, if you're for whatever reason super paranoid of the debian project finding out where you're located or something
08:20<rodan_>how to install social engineering kit and metasploit and all the tools to debian stretch ??
08:20<Rush__>then i can choose deb.debian .org
08:20<Rush__>[proxy info ?
08:20<blast007>rodan_: you'd use Debian for your daily driver and then Kali or Parrot for your pentesting
08:20<annadane>rodan_, not all of them are available in debian, it really depends
08:20<annadane>yeah, what blast007 said
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08:20<annadane>put kali or parrot or whatever in a virtual machine, or dual boot, or another computer
08:21<annadane>Rush__, just press enter
08:21<Rush__>configure package manager
08:21<Zelda>I'm wondering why all other mirrors have https and why doesn't :'(
08:21<rodan_>i have already dual boot my windows and parrot
08:21<annadane>virtual machines are cool though and highly addictive, may as well learn to use them now :-)
08:21<Rush__>i cant evnedual boot windows 10 and linux anymore. i dunno what windows have done.. very aggressive boot system
08:22<annadane>possibly secureboot
08:22<rodan_>can i triple boot dude?annadane
08:22<annadane>yes, i don't necessarily think it's more complicated than dual booting
08:22<Rush__>ihad a quadruple boot once i think
08:22<annadane>but be careful when resizing partitions and so on
08:22<Zelda>You can even so octa boot if you really want to...
08:23<rodan_>do grub support it?
08:23<Rush__>win 7 and three linux or win 7 and win xp and two linux.. cant remember now
08:23<rodan_>i didnt know before thanks
08:23<Zelda>octa = 8, quad = 4
08:23<Zelda>hexa = 6
08:23<annadane>i'll just mentioned for the benefit of rodan and rush, debian packages are seperated into free and non-free, where non-free software doesn't comply with the debian free software guidelines. you should generally prefer free software when given a choice, it's up to you, but free software tends to be of a generally higher quality and doesn't come with the spyware concerns the non-free software has
08:23<rodan_>which version to go with the debian then for all basic works to do as i do in windows operating system
08:24<annadane>free as in freedom, not cost
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08:24<annadane>(and "contrib", which is free software which however requires non-free software to work)
08:24<Rush__>its a good and interesting idea.. just harder to use and configre
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08:24<dpkg>DFSG is the Debian Free Software Guidelines, which are explained at . For a full list of DFSG-compatible/incompatible software licenses, see
08:24<arto>rodan_: debian stable, no different versions
08:25<annadane>if you *really* need to run windows applications in debian then there's the WINE package which is a compatibility layer
08:25<annadane>but for example libreoffice is a fine replacement for ms office
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08:26<rodan_>ok.I've got the feeling like i can learn alot from u guys .can we get in contact through other social platform?because iam from a poor country and the peoples here are not that creative
08:26<annadane>well, i'm sticking to IRC
08:26<annadane>(read: i'm addicted and can't pry myself away, please send help)
08:27<Zelda>I only have IRC:
08:27<ompaul>I'm not interested in other tool boxes.
08:27<ompaul>IRC is enough fun.
08:27<rodan_>how to save you to the irc chat so i can contact while i will be needing you annadane
08:27<blast007>most IRC clients have a logging feature
08:27<annadane>i'm here, like, every single day
08:28<rodan_>can u tell me the procedure to add u on my irc as like bookmarking
08:28<annadane>but you don't need "me", anyone in these channels is quite capable and usually knows more than i do
08:28<blast007>you'd have to read the manual for your client
08:28<annadane>idk, i've never done the whole "friends" thing on irc
08:28<blast007>there is also logs created by a bot
08:28<dpkg>from memory, irclog is #debian on <freenode> is logged at , #debian on <OFTC> is logged at
08:29<annadane>rodan if you're going to run debian i'd before anything read and then check out the handbook/reference manual
08:29<annadane>but that wiki link is by far the most important
08:29<annadane>and don't use root unless absolutely necessary
08:29<annadane>not firefox
08:30<annadane>i'm clearly tired ...
08:30<arto>annadane: too much irc...
08:30<ompaul>annadane: hydrate and a brisk walk see you in 10 due to the nature of your addiction ;-)
08:30<Rush__>i think it sdownloaded stff.. now installing the linux image
08:31<arto>Rush__: good
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08:32<annadane>it's because i link that article so often
08:32<Rush__>participate in statistic distribution? i guess no ?
08:32<annadane>you're fine saying no
08:32<arto>Rush__: up to you, its anynomous
08:32<Rush__>yea. otherwise mighyt as well use windows
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08:32<Rush__>oh ok
08:33<Rush__>will say no anyway, sorry devs lol
08:33<annadane>popcon is helpful to developers but it's totally optional
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08:33<Rush__>decision time... waht software to install
08:33<Rush__>gonme xfce etc
08:33<annadane>so like i said, xfce is nice; for a small usb stick you probably only want one desktop
08:34<annadane>i'd just check xfce and be done with it, and you probably don't need the "server" packages
08:34<rodan_>annadane:thanks for the resources stuffs .it would be really helpful.
08:34<Rush__>yea. but ubntu 18 uses gnome? and i liek that
08:34<Rush__>does it look the same?
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08:34<annadane>to xfce? no
08:34<rodan_>gnome is not that good
08:34<rodan_>xfce is great
08:34<annadane>use what you like
08:34<arto>Rush__: gnome packages tend to ber quite large
08:34<Rush__>but it looks fantastic in ubuntu
08:35<Rush__>i will look on youtube quickly
08:35<Rush__>the only difference really is how they look ?
08:35<annadane>definitely leave "standard system utilities" checked, you want those
08:35<rodan_>is ubuntu a debian annadane?
08:35<annadane>ubuntu is based on debian
08:35<annadane>debian testing/unstable, specifically
08:35<annadane>(i think. i don't really use it.)
08:35<blast007>no, there are more difference than just the "look". they include different software.
08:35<rodan_>so will it be good to go with ubuntu rather than debian stable
08:35<Rush__>i do have 32 gb, cant i install gnome and xfce and choose whenever ?
08:36<annadane>it's possible also to install less than what the installer offers, for example you can go super minimal and install openbox, but that's maybe going too far in this specific case
08:36<arto>Rush__: you might run out of disk space
08:36<Rush__>i wont keep many files on it
08:36<Rush__>should be ok
08:36<annadane>gnome and xfce combined is not anywhere near 32 GB
08:36<Rush__>how many gb is a environment ?
08:36<annadane>hmm let me see
08:37<rodan_>xfce used 300 to 400mb in cold boot
08:37<arto>annadane: it's not only DE, programs too
08:37<rodan_>while gnome used upto a gigabyte
08:37<annadane>yeah there's no quick way to check
08:37<arto>my / is 10G, I have xfce
08:37<Rush__>10gb just for an environment ?
08:37<annadane>because the tasksel which the installer uses includes a bunch of common programes
08:38<Rush__>can i install two now and uninstal one when i decide what to keep ?
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08:38<annadane>but uh.
08:38<Rush__>any otf the others worth considering? kde etc?
08:38<Rush__>oh.. a but
08:38<blast007>it's not always that straight forward to remove them later
08:38<Rush__>oh ok
08:39<Rush__>i better check youtube
08:39<annadane>fair warning, be careful of metapackages, in other words if you install task-xfce-desktop and decide you don't want it and then remove it, apt will suggest "you don't need these programs anymore" and offer to remove those
08:39<rodan_>can i go with budgie?
08:39<annadane>which got dragged in by task-xfce-desktop
08:39<annadane>budgie isn't in debian, i think
08:39<arto>blast007: I heard that before, but i've done apt purge gnome* kde*
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08:39<annadane>oh it is, sorry
08:39<annadane>just not part of the installer
08:40<rodan_>yeah thats what iam saying
08:40<Rush__>do i need web server or SSH server? not selected by defualt
08:40<Rush__>print serve is selected tho
08:40<annadane>this is great, this channel never gets this much activity :P
08:40<annadane>Rush__, not really
08:40<rodan_>u will be good to see what i got after doing google..Parrot Security OS (or ParrotSec) is a Linux distribution based on Debian with a focus on computer security. It is designed for penetration testing, vulnerability assessment and mitigation, computer forensics and anonymous web browsing.
08:40<annadane>you can safely leave those out
08:40<Rush__>lol, thats cos i know nothing.. i have questions about what colour sb stick i need to use lol
08:41<arto>annadane: I'm wondering the same, monday
08:41<ompaul>this all feels very Sunday to me
08:41<rodan_>hey annadane ihave asked u something
08:41<Rush__>gonna have to watch gnome vs xfce on yotube
08:42<rodan_>i dont wanna mess up again reintalling the debian..i wanna be clear whether the parrot is debian or not
08:42<ompaul>rodan_: you made a statement and did not ask a question, also you can't demand someone answer you.
08:42<ompaul>it isn't and it is very much offtopic
08:42<annadane>Rush__, there's more than those, in addition to the desktop environments it lists there's also things called window managers which enable you to do a lot of the same things, and then even for the desktops you can install very minimal versions of those
08:42<annadane>parrot is based on debian but it's really not debian, the two are very different in a number of areas
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08:43<rodan_>plz explain i wanna know it brother..i need to explain it to my friends
08:43<annadane>and it's further complicated by the fact that the things the installer lists, will install as i mentioned, other programs too, they're metapackages. task-xfce-desktop will install firefox-esr, gimp, some other things
08:43<ompaul>rodan_: it would be called debian if it was debian, but they changed something, we don't know, nor care what those changes are or we'd have to care about all the based on debian versions
08:43<arto>Rush__: don't let that mess up your head, familiriaze the one you have installed, you can later check for others
08:43<annadane>and yeah what arto said
08:44<annadane>you can figure this out later
08:44<annadane>all of them can be extensively customized anyway
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08:45<annadane>but just for academic interest, let's say i want xfce. i know what i'm doing because i use debian a lot, so i tend to know the names of packages. from a fresh system, i can have task-xfce-destop, which is xfce + a bunch of other pre-selected programs, xfce4, which is the full desktop minus extra programs, or to go super simple and minimal, i could install xfwm4
08:45<annadane>and most of the desktop packages are like that
08:46<somiaj>though I don't think xfwm4 would be considered all of xfce, it might miss pannels and other things.
08:46<arto>annadane: I thinx task-xfce install too much, so I install just base system, then xfce4
08:46<annadane>rodan_, parrot specifically takes debian as a base, makes adjustments, changes things, includes the pentesting distros, to be what it is and satisfy the needs of those who want to use it
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08:46<annadane>thus, it is not really debian and we tell people who ask support questions about it to go to their respective channels
08:46<annadane>because we don't know what got changed
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08:46<Rush__>well i dont know.. asthetically gnome looks better to me. but xfce maybe faster
08:47<annadane>i can take a screenshot of my xfce desktop if you're interested
08:47<Rush__>sure thanls
08:47<blast007>Rush__: I'm running Gnome on a Core 2 Duo laptop from 2009 and it works just fine
08:47<annadane>just to "illustrate" i guess how much you can change
08:47<arto>Rush__: if Gnome feels good, you have found your DE
08:47<rodan_>can i install debian on my amd ryzen 2400g as i have heard most of the linux distribution doesnt support it
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08:47<Rush__>gnome feels great to me. love its look and feel on ubunt 18
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08:48<somiaj>rodan_: I think you need a kernel from backports, and that could complicate the install, since I don't think there are any install mediums with backported kernels.
08:48<arto>Rush__: and stop speaking about ubuntu, this is #debian
08:48<annadane>this isn't exactly how it looks in stretch because i think this is from jessie (stretch is the current stable, jessie was the previous stable) but it's close enough, this isn't mine, but it's sort of what xfce looks by default
08:48<somiaj>I'm unsure if 4.9 supports any ryzen's or you would have to do some manual debootstrap install to get it to work.
08:48<annadane>now one sec, i'll post mine
08:49<rodan_>one main question please answer it..while using gnome environment everytime i adjust the brightness my laptop freezes
08:49<arto>rodan_: parrot?
08:49<rodan_>no bro every os i tried ubuntu fedora everything
08:50<arto>rodan_: how do you adjust, from keyboard?
08:50<rodan_>theres fuction button i use function + f3
08:50<annadane> and basically all i did was change the theme and move a penl
08:51<annadane> has some really great designs
08:51<arto>rodan_: that maybe not configure in keymap, you could try cli programs
08:51<Rush__>arto im just saying i like how ubuntu looks
08:52<Rush__>looks good
08:52<arto>Rush__: ubuntu which had Gnome, so you liked Gnome
08:52<Rush__>still think i prefer gnome
08:52<rodan_>arto : what to configure ? can i tell me the procedure and the codes
08:52<annadane>(i used to complain about xfce's default look in jessie, stretch did actually make it a bit nicer)
08:52<rodan_>can you*?
08:52<Rush__>its more rounded and smooth looking
08:52<Rush__>less sharp
08:53<Rush__>is xfce much more lightweight? for usb consideration? or not much difference ?
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08:53<annadane>it's... i don't think _much_ more lightweight
08:53<annadane>it is a little bit more so
08:53<grove>rodan_: I have the following two lines in the configuration for i3:
08:53<arto>rodan_: just now I dont remember the program I used, use google
08:53<grove>bindsym XF86MonBrightnessDown exec "xbacklight -dec 10"
08:53<grove>bindsym XF86MonBrightnessUp exec "xbacklight -inc 10"
08:53<rodan_>yes xfce is lightest one after lxde
08:54<rodan_>arto :i googled everything but i find no solutions to work
08:54<Rush__>do i need to leave 'debian desktop environment' ticked?
08:54<annadane>somiaj post your fvwm screenshot :P
08:54<Rush__>or just gnome only ?
08:54<grove>Those XF86...-names are what xev told me was sent when I pressed Fn+F5/Fn+F6 on my laptop
08:54<arto>rodan_: grove just wrote
08:54<annadane>well that's an interesting question because "debian desktop environment" by itself with nothing else will install gnome
08:55<annadane>and i don't know what it does if you untick it but select xfce, i assume it rechecks itself
08:55<annadane>or cinnamon or kde or anything else
08:55<Rush__>sp just choose debian desktop and gnome, check both to be safe
08:55<Rush__>or will it install two?
08:55<annadane>it won't install two
08:55<rodan_>arto:where to put those codes??can i have the location?
08:56<Rush__>damn.. pressed enter to check gnome, but it was the progress button
08:56<annadane>some people find gnome confusing because it's keyboard focused and for example there's no desktop icons or minimize button on windows by default
08:56<Rush__>luckily it will install gnome anyway
08:56<Rush__>i hope
08:56<arto>rodan_: man xbacklight
08:56<Rush__>i dunno
08:56<Rush__>i tweaked it a bit in unbuntu.. had the panels auto hiding
08:56<Rush__>very nice
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08:57<Rush__>im sure they had minimize buttons two, by default
08:57<arto>Rush: also Xfce can do that, autohide panels
08:57<Rush__>yea, but it looks different, less smooth. to me
08:57<annadane>i think basically a desktop is best when it stays out of your way and makes you forget you're using a desktop
08:58<Rush__>i dont like sharp or hardh looking desktops. not relaxing
08:58<annadane>so it's up to each individual user to configure their own and customize/optimize their workflow
08:58<arto>Rush__: you don't have to justify, if you do like Gnome, thats fine
08:58<Rush__>its downloadinga massive 1489 files
08:59<annadane>that's not just GNOME, it's some other programs too
08:59<arto>Rush__: takes some time, take a coffee break
08:59<Rush__>gonna try excercise.. i dont feel great lol
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08:59<annadane>you get firefox and gimp and... other things, i don't rmeember
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09:00<rodan_>guys iam leaving for now can i know how to get in contact to u guys again
09:00<annadane>and yeah i never install from the installer personally, i always install minimal and add from there
09:00<Rush__>come in here again ?
09:00<annadane>rodan_, this channel
09:00<annadane>as you just did
09:00<arto>rodan_: just come here
09:00<annadane>the same people may not always be here (though some of us... *cough*... may be)
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09:03<arto>annadane: installer => expert install => base system
09:04<rodan_>how to get again into the same channel of irc
09:04<annadane>rodan_, which irc client are you using?
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09:05<arto>rodan_: same way you did it now
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09:05<annadane>you should be able to /connect and then /join #debian
09:05<annadane>or /server
09:05<annadane>i'm actually going to reboot my computer for a minute, brb
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09:06<rodan_>it is showing hexchat annadane
09:06<arto>rodan_: annadane just left
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09:07<arto>rodan_: probably hexchat will bring you here next time
09:07<rodan_>i didnt know about the irc chat and never had used i just clicked what i saw and got into this please let me know how to get again into this same channel
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09:08<arto>rodan_: just start hexchat
09:08<annadane>hi back
09:08<Rush__>in hexchat option on top left.. go to network list
09:08<rodan_>then ?
09:08<Rush__>select OFTC server
09:08<Rush__>the njoin
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09:09<Rush__>then type /join #debian
09:09<Rush__>should bring you here
09:09<Rush__>did for me
09:09<Rush__>wb annadane
09:09<annadane>if you end up in narnia instead, enjoy the experience and good luck with the witch
09:09<arto>Rush__: hexchat is configure so, that it will join #debian, in debian package hexchat
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09:09<Rush__>might work then.. as long as the server is the right one
09:10<annadane>oh speaking of reboots, i can also mention that debian is not like windows, especially debian stable, you really don't need to reboot that often
09:10<Rush__>i heard that
09:10<annadane>things like kernel updates and microcode, yes, but otherwise not really
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09:10<Rush__>tyho i was told to reboot after an update in ubuntu the other day
09:10<Rush__>i dunno
09:11<arto>Rush__: kernel update probably
09:11<annadane>basically systemd and the kernel and microcode and even then updates in debian stable are rare, packages don't get updated functionality wise (usually), only security fixes
09:12<annadane>(because debian stable is a bit made with servers in mind, which _need_ the uptime)
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09:12<Rush__>dont even know what that means lol
09:12<arto>also some users prefer stability
09:12<annadane>if you run a server, it needs to be online 24/7
09:12<annadane>frequent updates would be a pain
09:13<Rush__>i see
09:13<Rush__>i need to try to get some cash from the atm here in asia.. doesnt always work with my credit card
09:13<Rush__>also need to get food
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09:13<Rush__>back in a bit, it might be installed then
09:14<annadane>i may write a "newcomer's guide to debian: everything you need to know about keeping sane running something unfamiliar" because the more i think about it the harder it is to communicate all the exceptions and caveats and things
09:14<rodan_>annadane :arto :it was nice to talk with u guys.. see u soon have great futures.your brother rodan
09:14<Rush__>would be good.. just imagine you are explaining it to me, then it will be simple to follow lol#
09:14<rodan_>actually it was amazing to talk*
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09:27<EmleyMoor>Good grief, do I not have vrms on this machine any more???
09:27<annadane>you can always tape a picture of him on your monitor
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09:28<EmleyMoor>annadane: A picture of him taped to a monitor isn't nearly so telling
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09:30<EmleyMoor>On this machine, my non-free package count is just 1
09:30<annadane>oh the irony of the emacs documentation being in non-free according to vrms
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09:31<EmleyMoor>3 non-free and 1 contrib on my comms server
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09:32<EmleyMoor>1 on my mail server
09:32*annadane considers forking vrms and making it proprietary and packaging it for debian. "vvrms"
09:33<EmleyMoor>6 non-free and 1 contrib on my router
09:33<EmleyMoor>9 and 1 on my laptop
09:34<EmleyMoor>Not got a single "all free" physical machine
09:34<annadane>hmm if i added a package and it pulled in other packages and i removed that package and did an apt autoremove, does autoremove purge those packages or simply remove, if it only removes is there a way to get rid of any unused config files
09:34<arto>7 & 1, subnotebook
09:34<annadane>and by remove i mean purged the original package
09:35<annadane>yes you can apt --purge autoremove or something - i think - but i mean if i didn't do that, can i do it after the fact
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09:35<EmleyMoor>annadane: It ought IMO but can't say for sure. Mind you, there's a status for "residual config" if you want to find out
09:35<annadane>beyond doing it manually
09:35<blast007>annadane: there is a --purge option for autoremove, iirc
09:35<annadane>there is but like, if i forgot to do it
09:35<annadane>i guess just hint through my apt logs
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09:35<blast007>aptitude search ~c can show you if you have any packages that were removed by still have config files (as in, we not purged)
09:35<blast007>and then aptitude purge ~c can purge those
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09:38<annadane>i like my system to be squeaky clean. :D
09:39*annadane stares at intel-microcode in vrms
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09:42<horder>hey. switching to Debian from an unnamed rolling distro. Wondering which would you recommend on Stretch - kde or gnome? do both get the same amount of polish and are 'first class citizens' ?
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09:43<annadane>i think as far as debian stable is concerned they're both fine
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09:43<annadane>some people dislike gnome a bit for technical reasons but as far as i'm aware they get the same debian treatment
09:43<annadane>KDE is quite nice
09:43<EmleyMoor>I've stuck with gnome for most of my time with Debian, though have used the odd KDE app
09:45<annadane>the only thing is gnome can be a bit baffling to new users: no desktop icons, no minimize button, initially
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09:48<annadane>it's kinda like kde and gnome are two warring factions and xfce just sits nicely in the middle minding its own business
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09:49<EmleyMoor>I did use a few other kinds of desktop in my early days with Debian, but never went fully KDE
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09:53<annadane>horder, but you really can use much more than either of those two
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09:53<annadane>there's a lot of window managers/desktop environments in debian
09:53<horder>yes, i know
09:53<horder>but these two seem most polished
09:53<horder>cinnamon seems like gnome made to be kde
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09:53<annadane>yeah basicall
09:53<horder>i love how kde has gazzillion functions
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09:54<horder>but some lack functionality
09:54<horder>it's like it has massive amount of options, but many are buggy
09:54<horder>in kde apps
09:54<horder>gnome however seems stripped down
09:54<horder>offtopic: is bulk renaming of files already possible in gnome?
09:55<horder>Xfce in its non patched vanillla form on stretch is a no- go
09:55<horder>and mate was in my experience very buggy, things kept crashing etx
09:55<annadane>xfce has a program called "bulk rename"
09:56<annadane>idk about gnome though sorry
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10:01<horder>though i like gnome's design
10:02<horder>and it surely doesnt get as much hate as it once did
10:02<horder>but id also like to avoid getting it all frankensteined with extensions
10:02<horder>decisins decisions :D
10:02<annadane>people dislike gnome because it keeps removing features
10:02<annadane>i don't agree or disagree, it's just what people say
10:04<Rush__>'install grub boot loader on hard disk'
10:04<Rush__>yes or no ?
10:05<annadane>well, be careful with this one
10:05<annadane>seeing as how you're using a usb... i think you'd install it to the usb
10:05<Rush__>no option ot do that
10:05<annadane>what are your options?
10:05<Rush__>i guess its thinks my usb is a hdd anyway
10:05<Rush__>yes or no or go back lol
10:06<annadane>if you select yes it will prompt you for which one
10:06<Rush__>let see
10:06<Rush__>yea.. so i select the same usb as the os is on then
10:06<annadane>i think so yes
10:06<annadane>but do you know which it is?
10:06<Rush__>just abot lol
10:06<Rush__>its not crcial cos thats my ssd
10:07<annadane>i think if nothing else is plugged in to your computer it ought to be /dev/sdb
10:07<Rush__>my install usb is toshiba
10:07<annadane>yeah, ok
10:07<Rush__>that leaves the generic sd mmc ...
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10:08<Rush__>grub up , boostrap bill and the bash street kids
10:08<Rush__>odd damnes
10:09<Rush__>instalation com[plete
10:09<Rush__>time to boot up
10:11<Rush__>'bluetooth' firmaware failed to load. other than that im in
10:11<Rush__>will hava bite to eat the nexplore
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10:15<Rush__>hi mukul
10:15<Rush__>brb.. eating
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10:16<mukul>what actually is this lol
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10:17<annadane>support channel for debian
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10:34<Rush__>should i update stuff first?
10:34<Rush__>or just look in the software center for stuff i want to install ?
10:34<annadane>you used the netinstall so it should all be updated
10:34<annadane>you can apt update to check
10:35<Rush__>sudo apt update ?
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10:35<Rush__>sudo command not found
10:35<annadane>well, then do it as root, and log out of it right afterwards
10:35<annadane>and make that a habit, any time you don't need it, leave
10:35<Rush__>well how do i do that
10:36<annadane>use "su -" and then enter your password when prompted
10:36<Rush__>and i hav a feeling i will be needing terminal often
10:36<annadane>sorry, this sounds confusing and i'm rushing explanations because i'm so used to it
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10:36<Rush__>im in root now
10:36<annadane>you won't need it often and you can even use synaptic for updating programs if you want
10:37<annadane>so here, if you want synaptic, type "apt update && apt install synaptic"
10:37<Rush__>still says sudo command not found
10:37<annadane>yeah, if you're in root, you don't need sudo
10:37<Rush__>jeez lol
10:37-!-rev [~rev@2607:f2c0:f00f:1401::beef] has joined #debian
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10:37<annadane>sudo is just one way to get elevated privileges and is most used on multi-user systems
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10:38<Rush__>but doesnt work in debian anyhway it seems ?
10:38<annadane>because it doesn't come installed by default
10:38<annadane>you can install sudo but for your use it's a bit unnecessary
10:38<EmleyMoor>Rush__: It does if you install and configure it...
10:38<Rush__>all packages are up to date
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10:39<annadane>so if you use synaptic you won't really *have* to use the terminal
10:39<Rush__>of dorse emley, everything works if u get it to work....
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10:39<Rush__>so i instal lsynaptci with the commands above
10:39<Rush__>in root or out of root ?
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10:39<annadane>for what?
10:39<annadane>oh sorry
10:39<Rush__>apt install synaptic
10:39<annadane>yeah, install synaptic with root
10:39<Rush__>i dont evne know wat synaptic is
10:39<annadane>it's a package manager
10:40<EmleyMoor>synaptic is a package management tool for X
10:40<arto>debian installer does not require root password given, in that case it will install sudo
10:40<Rush__>done it says
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10:40<Rush__>so how to leave root ?
10:40<annadane>you can search packages containing keywords with apt search whatever, and more detailed information with apt show package
10:40<EmleyMoor>Ctrl-D, or "exit"
10:40<annadane>without quotes, of course
10:40<arto>Rush__: exit
10:40<Rush__>cant i just search for packages in software gui?
10:41<Rush__>much better
10:41<Rush__>sod the terminal avoid when i can
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10:41<EmleyMoor>Rush__: You can try but I would tend to use synaptic... it is a GUIapp
10:41<annadane>i think that's what he was asking
10:41<arto>Rush__: that's your choice to avoid terminal, I respect that, but you loose most of linux if will not use it...
10:41<Rush__>strange.. can tsee vlc player in software
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10:42<Rush__>bt it is in buntu software
10:42<annadane>vlc is also packaged for debian
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10:42<dpkg>Este canal es de soporte técnico en Inglés para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en Español, puede ingresar en #debian-es tecleando /join #debian-es en la línea de chat.
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10:42<EmleyMoor>annadane: There is a thing called "Software"... not as versatile as synaptic in my opinion
10:42<annadane>oh, maybe
10:42<Rush__>software is wat im using
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10:42<Rush__>no skype either ?
10:42-!-rev [~rev@2607:f2c0:f00f:1401::beef] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:42<annadane>well, skype is proprietary
10:43<annadane>do you want it?
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10:43<EmleyMoor>Rush__: That's proprietary... you can get it easily though
10:43<Rush__>well, most people use it so its necessary for communication
10:43<Rush__>little choice
10:44<Rush__>i tried 'qtox' and that was hard to install also.. but now i have soem contacts on qtox also... same with skype. if i want to talk to these particular people, i have to use skype or qtox
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10:44<Rush__>some one said skpye was 'malware' though lol. snoops even on linux
10:44<Rush__>true ?
10:44<annadane>one day, everyone will discover the magic of federation...
10:44<annadane>yes, it does
10:44<Rush__>wats federation
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10:45<annadane>so, like, if someone is on facebook, to contact them i must contact them through facebook
10:45<annadane>with federation, you can use multiple services to contact someone
10:45<annadane>facebook locks you in and is what's called a walled garden; with something like matrix, which is a communication protocol, you can use any number of programs to talk to people
10:45<annadane>skype is not federated, you need skype to talk to other people on skype
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10:47<EmleyMoor>I actually run an XMPP server with gateways to Facebook, Google Hangouts, ICQ and Skype
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10:47<EmleyMoor>I can IM people on all of these through any XMPP client
10:47<Rush__>i copuldnt figure out how to even sign up to xmpp
10:47<Rush__>really annoyed me
10:47<Rush__>was trying to use it to talk to tails linux chat help
10:48<mystic>but good news is i am logged in her ealso on debian machine now
10:48-!-rev [~rev@2607:f2c0:f00f:1401::beef] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:48<EmleyMoor>Rush__: There are some open servers... or you can run your own if you've got something you can do so on
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10:48<arto>Skype XMMP?
10:48<mystic>oi know nothiung about it. couldnt even understand the sign upo and join process
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10:48<mystic>this is rush by the way
10:49<EmleyMoor>arto: No, it's not part of Skype
10:49<annadane>also, i mean, if you wanted to get away from windows and their spyware... microsoft owns skype
10:50<annadane>(and skype purely on a technical level is essentially one of the worst programs in current existence)
10:50<mystic>yea , tried thsat, and even made a profile on jabbber or something
10:50<arto>EmleyMoor: I just wonder, I have used a lot xmmp clients
10:50<mystic>still didnt work properly
10:50<mystic>too fiddly and difficult for casuals
10:50<annadane>i mean, there's documentation you can read to figure things out
10:50<mystic>i couldnt follow it
10:50<mystic>even reading it
10:51<mystic>not clear enough
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10:51<mystic>anyway.. forget xmpp, ive no use for thier bloated sign up system
10:51<mystic>dont need em
10:51<EmleyMoor>What's unclear and/or bloated about it?
10:52<arto>mystic: we dont need to know what you dont understand
10:52<EmleyMoor>(and they're not really an em, they're an us)
10:52<mystic>i cant remember, but i do remembe rspending about two days trying to join channels via xmpp
10:52<mystic>couldnt get it working properly
10:52<mystic>dont even need it anyway?
10:52<mystic>wat sthe use of it?
10:53<annadane>just because you couldn't get it working doesn't mean it doesn't have a use
10:53<mystic>i said wat is its use
10:53<mystic>why is it better than non sign up chats like this one
10:54<arto>I use often jitsi, a xmmp client
10:54<mystic>plus i cant get freenode working , same reason
10:54<mystic>i just stick to the non sign up stuff
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10:55<EmleyMoor>mystic: It's not easy to access IRC consistently at multiple locations. Anyway, just stick to what you require and don't rant about how crap some of the stuff we know and love is if you're really not bothered about it
10:56<annadane>in the 1990's, when computers were harder, people used to program x by hand just to get a working desktop. technology has progressed to the point where you can literally just apt install xfce4 and it does it all for you
10:56<mystic>i already told u i needed it t otry to get help with linux tails and im not ranting
10:56<annadane>anyone can figure out anything if they're just a bit patient
10:56<mystic>i spend hours on it, and it didnt work
10:56<mystic>but since im not going ot use tails (its too advanced) then i dont need it
10:56<b17>yeah ten yrs trying linux and it sucks we get it
10:56<mystic>thats what i meant by what is its use
10:57<mystic>sod off b17
10:57<EmleyMoor>Sorry, I think you are ranting. If you need help, try to go through it patiently, and if/wh... GRRRRRRRR!
10:57<b17>please ask debina support questions
10:57<arto>mystic: b17 told, what quite many thinks
10:57<b17>or debian either one is fine
10:57<mystic>dont care
10:57<mystic>its only on my usb stick.. no harm done
10:58<annadane>if literally nothing works for you i feel like you've been seriously led astray by the people giving support
10:58<annadane>i swear it is not this difficult
10:58<b17>i hang out here for help on debian not this has bee going on all morning since 6am or so
10:59<mystic>itll go on much longer too
10:59<mystic>cos i wil lalways have questions about linux
10:59<arto>mystic: read
10:59<EmleyMoor>mystic: Make them relevant and to the point
10:59<mystic>i dont want to study like im cramming for am exam
11:00<mystic>and i was told i wont have to
11:00<EmleyMoor>mystic: By whom?
11:00<mystic>if i knew that, i wouldnt even have started
11:00<mystic>people persons
11:00<mystic>what matters who ?
11:00<EmleyMoor>People persons on this channel or...?
11:00<mystic>many channels
11:00<mystic>anyone who supports linux on the whole
11:01<EmleyMoor>mystic: Including this one or not?
11:01<mystic>id say so
11:01<annadane>i mean i said "you won't have to use the terminal" which is true
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11:01<annadane>but you're now using an operating system literally world renowned for its stability; if you're interested in at least putting in the bare minimum of effort, we can help
11:02<mystic>im putting in plenty of effort, for my standards
11:02<mystic>if i knew i had t ostudy , i woulkdnt have done it as i say
11:02<annadane>the idea is to acquire knowledge *slowly* and not to rush anything
11:02<mystic>all i said anyway was wahts the use of xmpp chat? is ist necessary?
11:02<annadane>you don't need to memorize hundreds of pages
11:02<mystic>then i get accused of moaning
11:02<annadane>a lot of this stuff comes naturally when you've been doing it for a while
11:02<EmleyMoor>It shouldn't be a massive amount of study for someone who claims to have the experience you claim to have
11:03<arto>mystic: using a lot more words
11:03<mystic>yes it is
11:03<mystic>linux neve rstuck with me. too difficult to use or remember
11:03<mystic>its just fact
11:03<mystic>for me anyway
11:03<annadane>xmpp is just a protocol with certain advantages. it's not "necessary".
11:03<mystic>thats all i asked
11:03<EmleyMoor>That begs a question I don't even think I need to state
11:03<mystic>i will do without it then
11:04<mystic>u do
11:04<mystic>wat question
11:04-!-rev [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:04<annadane>i think you're really letting your past negative experiences get in the way of accomplishing anything
11:04-!-horder [] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
11:04<EmleyMoor>So, if Linux newer stuck with you, you find it too difficult to use or remember, why are you determined to struggle on with it?
11:05<mystic>beceause 'people' always say how good it is and nowadays can run with just mouse clicks for instalation
11:05<mystic>so i keep trying every few years
11:05<mystic>only to have pretty much the same experience
11:05<mystic>better.. but not good enough
11:05<annadane>listen, keep backups of your files. you should be doing that anyway if windows or debian or anything fails, if your hardware fails, whatever. find a backup solution and store stuff on it. at the absolute worst and you need to reinstall, you can do it
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11:06<annadane>debian does not take long to install
11:06<EmleyMoor>Maybe you should take better care of which 'people' you listen to
11:06<mystic>thse people' are most people on forums like this
11:06<annadane>i'm sorry if you find us frustrating but you have to understand it's hard to deal with you like this, sorry to say that
11:06<mystic>most cant admit linux is not easy to use
11:06<mystic>and needs far more study than windows te get with the program
11:06<mystic>if they just come out and say it, we can avoid things like this
11:07<arto>mystic: if you have used only windows for n years
11:07<rodan>hey annadane
11:07<duclicsic>ok can we reel in the debate pls? this is off topic
11:07<rodan>iam not able to use taptoclick in debian
11:07<annadane>touchpad, rodan?
11:07<annadane>hmm. not sure.
11:08<ach>hi annadane
11:08<rodan>my left keys are damaged so i need to enable tapto click but there is no any option there
11:09<ach>rodan yes their is
11:09<ach>but i am forgotten
11:09<mystic>so, no skype. how about qtox?
11:09<mystic>definetaly not in the software center
11:10<ach>and also i just remind it in jessie not bben on laptop in stretch or looked out
11:11<b17>rodan: tpping is disbaled by default on libinput try this
11:11<rodan>thanks b17
11:11*EmleyMoor has never heard of qtox
11:11<rodan>is it safe to install concky from third party repos?
11:12<annadane>conky is already in debian
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11:12<annadane>,v conky
11:12<judd>Package: conky on amd64 -- wheezy: 1.9.0-2+deb7u1; jessie: 1.9.0-6; jessie-backports: 1.10.6-1~bpo8+1; stretch: 1.10.6-1; sid: 1.10.6-1.1; buster: 1.10.8-1; sid: 1.10.8-1
11:12<annadane>just apt install it
11:12<mystic>i use it as i have contacts there. i dont mind too much what chat client i use. but i am dicated by what my contacts use
11:12<mystic>qtox is a chat client also
11:12<annadane>for skype, can you not just download it from the website as a zip or tar or something and have it reside in its own folder
11:12<annadane>i don't know, i don't really use it
11:13<EmleyMoor>annadane: It's a DEB
11:13<annadane>i hate websites that do that
11:13<arto>dont break debian...
11:13<EmleyMoor>annadane: It's not bad in this case
11:13<mystic>now i know why i need 'freenode' chat server, cos the help rooms like qtox are more full than on here. empty here hard to get help
11:13<mystic>what is the best server for popular support? freenode?
11:13<EmleyMoor>arto: Luckily this doesn't happen with that
11:14<EmleyMoor>mystic: Different projects are either here on OFTC or on Freenode
11:14<arto>EmleyMoor: that's good, I still don't need skype
11:14-!-drakonis [~drakonis@2804:14d:7482:1de0:7143:936c:969d:e1c4] has joined #debian
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11:14<mystic>then can you please walk me through how to join freenode correctly?
11:14<EmleyMoor>There's no Debian package of qtox...
11:14<EmleyMoor>mystic: I can try...
11:15<mystic>yea. the deve himself helped me install it last time..
11:15<annadane>thus my mini-rant or whatever about federation, if people could use free software for communication and not rely on f!@#ing skype... then you wouldn't have to use it, you're only forced to because of the network effect
11:15<mystic>but i can find him on this server
11:15<mystic>yea.. when things are established, hard to enter the market
11:15<rodan>hey iam having i3 3rd gen cpu on laptop and 6gb ram it good to run kali linux in virtual box in debian stretch?? annadane
11:15<annadane>nothing wrong with it
11:15<mystic>id be haopy using linux if i could use it properly, but since i cant windows is my os for doing stuff on
11:16<annadane>except virtualbox not being fully free and owned by oracle i guess, but whatever
11:16<EmleyMoor>mystic: Point your IRC client at (as another connection if you also wish to stay here)
11:16<annadane>well i guess virtualbox is free itself
11:16<rodan>which virtul box is better?
11:16<annadane>i just use virt-manager for my virtualization but i don't know if i'd recommend it to newbies
11:16<annadane>virtualbox is very intuitive and easy
11:16<EmleyMoor>You may need to register with its nickname service - this is partly to be sure you're not a spambot
11:17<mystic> it didnt ask me to register this time
11:17<mystic>but did many times before
11:17<mystic>might it ask me in future?
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11:17<annadane>maybe because you were on tails
11:17<EmleyMoor>mystic: Maybe it recognised you this time...
11:17<annadane>and thus had traffic routed through tor
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11:17<EmleyMoor>Ah... could be that
11:17<annadane>this is what i said earlier, hours ago
11:18<annadane>anyway yeah the #debian on freenode has twice the number of people
11:18<annadane>this is actually the most active the oftc chat has been in like, a year
11:18<mystic>will they pick on me there?
11:18<annadane>not necessarily?
11:18<rodan>annadane how to install all the plugins which includes decoders and encoders etc in debian and also can u suggest me the video converters??
11:18<mystic>will i pick on them ?
11:18<annadane>rodan, bit of a vague question, depends what you want to do
11:18<EmleyMoor>mystic: If you do, expect to be picked on in retaliation
11:19<annadane>i think vlc by default should have a lot of that stuff
11:19<mystic>vlc isnt in software center?
11:19<mystic>i like it myself but cant see it
11:19<rodan>and for video converting what do i need?
11:19<rodan>just type sudo apt install vlc
11:19<annadane>it should be, but i don't know what "software center" you're using
11:19<annadane>try using synapyic
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11:19<mystic>it scalled 'software' only lol
11:19<annadane>i don't know what you're using
11:20<annadane>sorry rodan, not sure about video converting, i'm sure someone does
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11:20<EmleyMoor>mystic: You are finding much the same problem with that as I did. synaptic is easier to find known packages in
11:20<rodan>will kdenlive greatly work on my debian?
11:21<annadane>i guess it should, idk about hardware in relation to software like that
11:21<mystic>yea it has some results. not gui though. hard to knwo what one to install
11:21<annadane>which what to install, vlc?
11:22<EmleyMoor>mystic: Not gui?
11:22<mystic>it has a list of searc hresults
11:22<annadane>it's just called "vlc"
11:22<rodan>which desktop environment are u using annadane?
11:22<EmleyMoor>How doa you mean not gui?
11:22-!-jwolff80 [] has quit []
11:22<annadane>the search results also have package descriptions
11:22<annadane>i'm using xfce
11:22<EmleyMoor>It's gui-er than aptitude
11:22<rodan>why not gnome? annadane why u ditched it
11:22<mystic>lesss than 'software'
11:22<mystic>and the list of results i dont knwo what one to choose
11:22<annadane>i didn't really ever ditch it, i just like xfce
11:23<EmleyMoor>mystic: Well, Software, as you have discovered, is not always great when you know exactly what you're looking for
11:23<rodan>but it looks ugly at initial in debian
11:23<mystic>i dont know which vl result to install, and how many other parts need to b einstalled to get it to work
11:23<mystic>probably 50 results there
11:23<rodan>mpv works well too
11:24<EmleyMoor>The one called "vlc" - and any dependencies will be pulled in automatically
11:24<mystic>ther ar about 10 'vlc'
11:24<mystic>ok.. just vlcx
11:24<EmleyMoor>There is only one that's just 'vlc'
11:24<annadane>just vlc is fine. it will install the video player.
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11:24<annadane>i personally couldn't stand using synaptic, just personal preference
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11:25<rodan>annadane do u use desktop or laptop?which do u prefer
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11:25<annadane>i'm on a desktop.
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11:25<rodan>can i know the specs?
11:25<annadane>last of my kind...
11:26<annadane>it's a bit off-topic, rodan
11:26<mystic>yea 'software' is easir looking. but doesnt even have a search bar ?
11:26<rodan>plz tell dude
11:26<annadane>no. this is for debian support.
11:26<mystic>found it
11:26<mystic>also i have a folder encrypted by 'veracrypt'
11:26<annadane>well it doesn't matter if it's easier looking, does it? if it doesn't have vlc
11:26<mystic>so i need that installed too
11:26<annadane>no, you don't
11:27<annadane>oh, sorry
11:27<annadane>i misread that
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11:27<annadane>i thought you said you found a folder called veracrypt
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11:27<rodan>plz iam gonna build one pc to work upon linux disro only so i need to know because there is a huge probability to use debian on it or debian based os
11:27<mystic>its ok.. this is easy for you.. imagine how i feel lol
11:27<annadane>rodan, basically any computer you use you'll be able to run debian on
11:28<arto>rodan: I've installed debian to many computers, desktops and laptops
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11:28<mystic>i cant find a 'veracypt' even in the synaptic search
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11:28<rodan>plz tell ur specs nothing will be wrong on that..
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11:28<petn-randall>rodan: Try asking questions related to Debian. Bonus points if you use proper english.
11:29<petn-randall>"Tell me your specs, plzzzzz" is a tad offtopic.
11:29<EmleyMoor>mystic: zulucrypt handles veracrypt
11:29<rodan>is my english that much bad?? petn-randall
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11:29<annadane>you really just need to know the architecture to install debian on, whether devices require non-free firmware or not, and the vast majority is amd64 anyway
11:29<EmleyMoor>There's a whole load of zulucrypt related apps
11:29<mystic>well, u dont need to worry about specs.. linux runs pretty fine even from usb, ive noticed
11:29<mystic>id imagine it runs in a potato
11:29<dragon12>is filtering output traffic in iptables a good idea?
11:29<mystic>so zulucrypt will install veracrypt?
11:30<arto>whan debian relaese was potato
11:30<annadane>i want to say 2 or 3
11:30<EmleyMoor>You probably want zulumount-gui
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11:30<mystic>i dunno.. but it seemst ome some newer os's are gettig nactually faster
11:30<rodan>i know but now a days desktop environment are killing it
11:30<annadane>i could look it up but that's boring
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11:30<arto>dragon12: hardly, if it only your computer
11:31<EmleyMoor>It doesn't "install veracrypt" but it deals with veracrypt volumes
11:31<dragon12>arto, i mean my vps
11:31<mystic>as long as it works the same thats ok
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11:32<rodan>vpn disconnects everytime i try to use it.In every linux i tried i got to use vpn in debian other than tor netwroks
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11:33<tda>make sure your settings match exactly. vpns are very finicky and not great at reporting what exactly goes wrong
11:33<arto>dragon12: if it is yours, you propably know what is going on there, and you should be able to judge if you need to filter
11:33<mystic>i cant see the 'apply' buttong on my hexchat settings. trying to change text size here
11:33<mystic>but the box is too big for my screen
11:33<annadane>yeah ok, potato was 2.2
11:33<dragon12>is there any https version of repository
11:34<annadane>good question, not sure but you don't really need it
11:34<arto>dragon12: is that problem?
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11:35<arto>mystic: drag hexchat window, and change size smaller
11:35<mystic>cant drag it up enough
11:35<mystic>and it wont let me resize
11:36<arto>mystic: I mean has this never occured to you when using windows
11:36<mystic>yes, i do it all the time
11:36<mystic>but it wont ework here
11:36<mystic>as i saids
11:36<mystic>did that occur to you?
11:37<arto>mystic: I used hexchat, had no such problem, now I use irssi
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11:37<EmleyMoor>mystic: I think the point is that it should... so if it isn't, likely other things aren't working either... knowing what they are would help
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11:38<rodan>what are differences betweek debians dvd 1 2 and 3 isos
11:38<blast007>rodan: 1 is the bootable installer, 2 and 3 have additional packages
11:38<EmleyMoor>rodan: They are the first, second and third DVDs... typically the lesser used packages are on the later ones
11:38<arto>rodan: you need only the first, if you network install is not option
11:38<blast007>if you have an internet connection, you only need the first
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11:38<mystic>dunno. cant rezize the option window
11:39<mystic>can jus tabout see the top of the 'ok' button
11:39<arto>better use network install then
11:39<mystic>but its not right
11:39<mystic>if i cna get the top task ar to auto hide it might give me enough space
11:39<blast007>mystic: tab to the button and hit the space bar to select it
11:39<rodan>what kind of additional packages in dvd 2 and dvd 3 iso of debian
11:39<annadane>packages ranked according to popcon AFAIK
11:40<annadane>i have no idea what's even on them, i use the netinstall exclusively
11:40<arto>rodan: they usually contain programs for minor languages
11:40<EmleyMoor>rodan: Nothing that isn't available over the Internet anyway
11:40<rodan>but dvd 2 and 3 are of same size.what are the differences then
11:40<arto>that's where popcon results are used
11:40<annadane>including mandatoryAOLtoolbar.virus???
11:41<arto>rodan: max dvd size
11:41<mystic>which zulucrtpy result do i install?
11:41<mystic>cli? gui ?
11:41<blast007>rodan: if you're curious what they contain, look at
11:41<EmleyMoor>rodan: The packages on DVD 2 are more popular than those on DVD 3...
11:41<annadane>well you don't like terminals, mystic.............
11:41<EmleyMoor>mystic: Install zulumount-gui, and if you feel you need it, zulucrypt-gui
11:42<mystic>wat sthe diff? if i need to create a new volume i need crypt i guess
11:42<mystic>its true, i dont like em
11:42<EmleyMoor>Yes. To access an existing one you need the mount
11:42<blast007>mystic: look at the package descriptions
11:42<mystic> idid, still not clear for me
11:42<coruja>oh come on, can't you take any decision on your own? this is rather spoonfeeding than real support on problems (sorry but hard to read)
11:43<mystic>well ,tha swhat i asked for, and thats what i was told i can have
11:43<coruja>this is quite waste of time of supporters
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11:43<mystic>if they want to stop helping me they can
11:44<mystic>but who are you to make up their minds for them
11:44<mystic>'hard to read' i assure it much harder for me to use this os
11:44<mystic>so dont sweat it
11:45<dragon12>is openvpn a good solution for allowing remote access to development environment, git repos etc.?
11:45<coruja>i know the purpose of this channel, and i detect redundant (meaning things which can be looked up on your own) questions ;)
11:45<coruja>but as long as someone keeps on answering, go ahead - i made my point
11:45<mystic>i did look it up, and still didnt know wat one to install
11:45<mystic>so wahts your point?
11:45<annadane>synaptic has package descriptions
11:45<annadane>you can read those
11:46<mystic>yes, and i still didnt know
11:46<mystic>if the gui was all i needed or not
11:46<annadane>when in doubt, install the version of the package that has the literal name
11:46<arto>mystic: do you understand mount and crypt?
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11:46<annadane>do you want the vlc media player? install "vlc"
11:46<rodan>how is the possiblity to get affected by virus in debian/gnu/linux?
11:46<EmleyMoor>mystic: The cli is pulled in automatically by the gui
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11:46<annadane>rodan, not very high
11:46<arto>rodan: close to zero
11:46<annadane>just observe best practices
11:46<mystic>thinkj so.. mount is to mount and crypt is t ocreate a new folder
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11:46<annadane>aka, stop using root to open firefox
11:46<rodan>why annadane?
11:47<annadane>because of conceptions of privilege seperation
11:47<annadane>you can't just "run programs" in linux like that
11:47<arto>use root only if you absolutely need
11:47<rodan>but firefox starts with root by default
11:47<EmleyMoor>rodan: No it doesn't
11:47<blast007>on Kali
11:47<annadane>there are several things wrong with that sentence
11:47<mystic>dammit, after all this banter i forgot
11:47<mystic>zulucrypt gui , right?
11:48<annadane>you don't like using the terminal
11:48<annadane>you have two options
11:48<blast007>mystic: read the package descriptions and figure it out
11:48<annadane>use the terminal version of the terminal, or the gui
11:48<mystic>you told me i would hardly have to. thats why we are here
11:48<blast007>(or, you know.. just TRY it)
11:48<EmleyMoor>mystic: Yes. When you select it, it will pick any dependencies it needs automatically
11:49<annadane>i promise you things will not randomly explode in your face. really. no, seriously.
11:49<mystic>cant figure some of it out blast.
11:49<rodan>yes it used to open with root bydeafualt on parrot but i dont know in debian??what if firefox opens byfeault with root ?? how to disable superuser permission to firefox if it does open bydeafault in any operating systerm
11:49<EmleyMoor>Debian is very good at looking after itself in that way. It figures the lower level stuff out for you
11:49<blast007>rodan: on a daily driver OS, you don't run everything as root
11:49<annadane>see, *this* is why no one should use kali or parrot as their daily desktop
11:49<EmleyMoor>rodan: Parrot is not Debian
11:50<annadane>anyone watching this chat, PLEASE tell ALL your friends
11:50<mystic>i heard that earlier
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11:50<annadane>if a loved one is considering kali or parrot linux, seek counselling
11:50<mystic>tell em wat? parrot is not debian ?
11:50<rodan>i know but i need to learn to disable the root permission to the firefox in parrot too?? any ideas
11:50<EmleyMoor>rodan: Parrot questions are off topic here
11:50<arto>this is debian support channel
11:50<annadane>i need a break from this whole conversation i'll be back in like 20 minutes
11:50<rodan>plz dont tell offtopic because its not about debian it s about the all opensource community
11:51<mystic>must be a parrot room sumwhere
11:51<mystic>lol rodan, nice twist. my style
11:51<blast007>rodan: root is a user. on Debian you will log into xorg as a normal user, NOT root, so the software you run (like Firefox) will run under your normal user, NOT root
11:51<dpkg>Parrot OS ( is a security and penetration testing distribution. It is based on Debian testing, but it is not Debian and is not supported in #debian. Seek help in #parrot on or try the mailing lists at Also ask me about <based on debian>.
11:51<annadane>you don't run applications as root because then bad things can happen and wreck your system and attackers can get in
11:51<annadane>that's the sparknotes version
11:51<annadane>it's also terrible security
11:51<mystic>how likely is it for attackers to get in ?
11:51<rodan>just give an idea to disable the root permission
11:52<mystic>i dont know., id type 'disable root permission'
11:52<EmleyMoor>rodan: We CAN'T
11:52<mystic>if that doesnt work id be stuck
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11:52<tacobat>make a new account and use that
11:52<arto>rodan: just don't use root
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11:53<rodan>why the debian xfce package is 1.8 gb and default debian dvd more than 4 gbs
11:53<arto>or install again without root
11:53<mystic>cos its upacked?
11:53<mystic>or includes l drivers
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11:54<rodan>what to do if i need to install the sfce version and need all the packages on that dvd as well
11:54<annadane>you're asking how to do something in parrot. we use debian. parrot is based on debian but has significant differences. the way you exit root in DEBIAN is by typing exit. i'm sure on parrot the root account is on by default due to it being SPECIFICALLY for penetration testing. but even that is a guess because i am NOT currently on parrot
11:54<annadane>also, i'm sure you can find this on google
11:55<annadane>i could take debian, change literally everything about it, except one thing. does that make it debian?
11:56<mystic>gonna try to open my encrpted file on zulu
11:56<annadane>and things like this are exactly why kali and parrot are not ever meant to be used as desktop machines
11:56<annadane>debian is general purpose. they aren't. if you absolutely must, run them in a virtual machine like virtualbox or virt-manager
11:57<annadane>rant over
11:57<mystic>i know you are al lscared that i have a barrage of questions coming.. but i think i can do this one myself. despite zulu being much less gui than vera
11:57<rodan>hey i need to install the xfce variant of that debian and need to install all those packages of the dvd iso which is more than 4 gb how to do so??
11:58<arto>mystic: you don't have to share you every thought
11:58<mystic>nope.. maybe not. i have my sd card plugged in, but cant find it on zulu file or drive selection
11:58<mystic>just banter
11:58<mystic>why so touchy
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11:58<mystic>no.. my sd card isnt showing on zulu select
11:59<rodan>arto plz reply
11:59<mystic>but it shows on my file manager on debian desktop
11:59<arto>rodan: I don't understand you question. And we support only debian.
11:59<mystic>just wont show in zulu
12:00<arto>rodan: just don't care of the dvd:s.
12:00<rodan>why dude?
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12:00<arto>rodan: use net
12:00<annadane>rodan, and my annoyance isn't even directed specifically at you, it's just to really drive home the point that using those is a bad idea, a lot of people come in here with questions pertaining to them
12:01<annadane>people who want to "be hackers" and think they know everything because they have kali linux
12:01<drakonis>kali bby
12:01<annadane>hacking is a very complex interrelationship involving all kinds of things you need to learn methodically, not people who install these pentesting distros and don't even know how to install software
12:01<mystic>nope.. cant use it lol
12:02<annadane>or that asking questions pertaining to those distros in debian is a good idea when debian has virtually nothing to do with them
12:03<annadane>can we try to answer your questions? sure. those answers will almost always be wrong, so anyone listening to this, please save us the trouble, we don't say this to be jerks on purpose
12:03<mystic>any ides on zulucrypt not pciking up my sd card mount?
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12:04<arto>mystic: is it mounted (ignoring zulucrypt, and you need zulumount anyways)
12:04<rodan>dude iam not talking about the kali linux or something else iam just trying to understand the architecture of the debian and linux distros that much and moreover trying to learn something from u dont get me wrong bro
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12:04<mystic>it is mounted on my system but not showing on zulucrypt
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12:04<mystic>that wat ia sked earlier, i was told i only need crypt.. ok will install mount also
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12:05<annadane>as i said rodan it's not directed really at you specifically
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12:05<annadane>anyway enough, this is off-topic, sorry
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12:05<mystic>its directed at me lol
12:06<annadane>no it's not because you didn't even ask about kali/parrot
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12:06<arto>rodan: most distros have own websites, study those
12:06<jhutchins_wk>rodan: Alternatively, install Debian and learn that.
12:07<rodan>sorry guys for wasting ur time i will never disturb u again bye
12:07<mystic>wow, it stil wont work
12:08<mystic>cant mount it
12:08<mystic>the interface is to oconfusing
12:08<mystic>cant seem to look inside a folder open the encrypted file
12:08<mystic>this makes ubuntu seem easy lol
12:08<annadane>it helps if you clarify what isn't working. "it doesn't work" doesn't give us a hint as to what's going wrong
12:08<annadane>rodan, you're not wasting anyone's time
12:08<mystic>hard to explain
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12:08<mystic>i ope nzulu mount
12:09<mystic>the ni get the available partition, then i cant choose the partition i want
12:09<mystic>when i open it it open some other 'disk usage analyser'
12:09<coruja>mystic, it's good practice to put error messages or any other output to a pastebin and give us the link to it here
12:09<mystic>but no option to open it
12:09<mystic>its not error
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12:10<coruja>or screenshots, whatever might help others support
12:10<dpkg>zulu is probably a synonym for Coordinated Universal Time. Formerly a synonym for Greenwich Mean Time, or
12:10<mystic>its just the front end of zulu mount
12:10<mystic>i cant use it
12:10<annadane>rodan, to answer your question, viruses are rare. linux/debian processes, broadly speaking, are seperated from each other
12:10<mystic>my encrypted folder is inside a folder in a partition
12:11<annadane>a virus that affects one file will not tend to spread
12:11<mystic>no option to get inside the folder
12:11<annadane>this is an oversimplification but the idea behind it is correct
12:11<mystic>if i open fdolder i go to the 'disk usage analyser' as i said
12:12<mystic>im about done guys
12:12<mystic>u can have a rest
12:12<mystic>this is not for me
12:12<mystic>its nuts
12:13<annadane>maybe the program has documentation you can read, i'm not too familiar with that specific program
12:13<mystic>it sok
12:13<mystic>ive had it
12:13<mystic>the ubuntu one was very simple
12:13<mystic>this is a shamble to be honest
12:14<arto>mystic: install Ubuntu, all problems fixed
12:14<mystic>not at all arto
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12:14<mystic>but less problems yes
12:15<mystic>so i wil lkeep ubuntu on a usb, use it sometimes. but mainly use windows t oge tthing sdone
12:15<mystic>thats all i can manage
12:16<coruja>you need to take (and invest) some time in understanding linux and debian, and it's worth it
12:16<annadane>rodan, if you want to read up about linux security in general it will tend to apply to more than just specific distributions
12:16<mystic>no thanks
12:17<annadane>but the issue with these "root as default" things is that it opens you up to all kinds of nasty problems
12:17<mystic>i'll just wait for a ubnut ods that is truly mouse operated. ubuntu is getting there, btu not there yet.. maybe by release 20 or 25
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12:18<mystic>problem is, i cant access freenode on my ubuntu os
12:18<mystic>oh well
12:18<annadane>you have to understand people will get frustrated with you if you continually repeat that
12:18<annadane>i'm sorry, we're just human
12:18<mystic>its ok, im problably more frustrated than u
12:18<arto>argh, thanks for sharing that
12:18<mystic>i cant do this stuff
12:18<mystic>i tried
12:19<coruja>'can't access freenode' doesn't sound like an os related problem but just needs some preferences tuning
12:20<mystic>i was accesing it fine util i messed about trying to sign in to xmpp etc
12:20<mystic>cos tails linux room requires you to if you want hel
12:20<mystic>since then i cant get on freenode
12:20<mystic>messed something up
12:20<arto>and that is related to irc how?
12:20<mystic>i was trying to sign in with password etc is my point
12:20<mystic>messed some setting up i suppose
12:22<mystic>thanks for the tips
12:22<coruja>as another cheering-up word, we all were beginners once and we all blamed f***ing os's for not doing what we wanted (though being self-made mistakes), so on't just go away but keep on trying :)
12:22<mystic>was worth a shot, but not for me
12:22<rodan>annadane,u dont need to be sorry because i was behaving like a kid.I need to taught myself up .It was ur helpfullness that u replied my stupid questions and iam really thankfull for that
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12:23<mystic>noo. i wanted an easy to use os, thats what ia aksed for. ive no interest in studying terminal
12:23<mystic>or using bad software, sorry
12:23<annadane>i just want people to understand that while it's very understandable to come in here seeking support for parrot, it's a particularly catastrophic idea
12:23<mystic>well. if not bad softare, the nhard ot us esoftware
12:24<mystic>hard to use *
12:24<mystic>and not pretty lol
12:24<annadane>people don't understand how using a pen testing distribution for a desktop is bad and it's going to get them in trouble
12:24<mystic>i will keep an eyes on buntu. may get into in future
12:24<mystic>other than that,m i cant manage
12:26<annadane>and in firefox's case, it's connected to the internet, you do all your browsing on it... and you're connected via root, because that's the default in parrot (i assume)
12:26<annadane>very, very, very, very, very, very bad
12:26<coruja>mystic, it's ok to start with some more customer friendly distribution, maybe you'll find the way here later (i did so too)
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12:27<annadane>mystic, skills can be acquired slowly. there's no rush. it's just important that one gets a stable foundation on which to work later
12:27<mystic>maybe coru, but i doubt it. ive dabbled with ubuntu since release 11, still cant use it well. im not interested in learning it, just want ot use it. linux learning curve is gross lol
12:27<annadane>for example, "don't use the root account except for all but the most essential tasks". that *automatically* saves you a great deal of headaches
12:27<annadane>very simple to remember
12:27<mystic>yea.. ubuntu is my best option, without much doubt
12:27<mystic>iv etried many
12:27<annadane>no need to have to memorize hundreds of pages
12:28<mystic>i dont evne have root on ubuntu.. just normal. debian is too complex for me i think
12:28<arto>you can install Debian aswell without root account
12:28<annadane>well ubuntu is debian based so you should have a root account, i'm sure it asks you to set one up in the installer
12:28<annadane>and yeah, you can
12:29<mystic>it doesnt. i never have to put in two sperat passwords
12:29<blast007>mystic: this isn't #ubuntu, so if all you're going to talk about is Ubuntu you can go elsewhere
12:29<mystic>and ot b ehonest, the software here is lacking also
12:29<mystic>im having a conversation blast
12:29<mystic>why is ubuntu a dirty word?
12:29<mystic>its pathetic
12:29<annadane>well, debian has the largest repository of any distribution
12:29<blast007>because it's offtopic here
12:29<annadane>i wouldn't call it lacking
12:29<arto>channel is #debian
12:29<mystic>ok then lets not chat
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12:29<mystic>cos we cant
12:30<mystic>i mdone with thos os, and if we can tchat, i will leave
12:30<mystic>cos thems the rules
12:30<dpkg>This is not a chat channel, this is a Debian user support channel. Unless you have a Debian support question, please chat elsewhere, like #debian-offtopic, or #moocows on or ##chat on
12:30<mystic>ciao all. cheers for the suggestions
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12:31<arto>offtopic: finally!
12:32<blast007>his other nick is still here
12:32<Rush__> offtopic: thats right asshole
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12:32<rodan>annadane,i know what root is root is nothing but the permission to access the directories to the system files which includes kernels too and that is dangerous and well talking about the parrot or kali linux they are nothing until u know social engineering skills as well as scripting skills and skill to understand any system architecture inorder to find their loop holes
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12:33<annadane>rodan, no. if you use the root account to open applications, they operate with full privileges. it's not simply you accidentally typing the wrong command while in root, it's the very application itself you're using as root
12:33<dpkg>It has been said that root is the administrative account - only use it when root power is needed. So no reading mail, compiling programs, or running applications as root. And don't even think about irc'ing as root, it increases the danger from exploits and trojans (such as bliss), or see, for example, the security advisory on BitchX
12:35<annadane>rodan, and another danger is people thinking they know what they're doing by using hacking tools. you don't get good at hacking by tools, you get good at hacking by methodology
12:35<annadane>anyway, i'm sorry for the off topic
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12:37<tda>if you cant convince someone not to use root in an hour they probably have to learn the hard way
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12:40<rodan>annadane,there is nothing like off topic in the world because there is always something to learn from the experienced one coz one day we all have to die and the boundaries are only made with the people thoughts it is so where the off topic starts there the topic starts what can we relate it with our main topic.
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12:41<annadane>sure, but the thing is, as a support channel people want to keep it clear for actual support
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12:45<rodan>ok bro thanks for everthing and i learned a lesson from u so from now iam gonna ask the question myself before asking someone.and iam gonna reinstall my operating system to debian because i want to learn from the scratch and about hacking iam not on the hacking as iam working for the artificial intellingence since 6yrs but my university is not letting me do so.and sorry for the off topic and hope to meet u soon
12:45<rodan>6 months*
12:46<annadane>you can still *use* parrot/kali. just don't use it for anything other than pentesting activities. no daily browsing. and be careful, hacking gets people in trouble
12:46<rodan>not 6yrs lol its 6 months as iam only 17 yrs old
12:46<annadane>use it in a virtual machine.
12:46<annadane>like virtualbox, or virt-manager, whatever.
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12:46<ompaul>better still, learn to secure your own computer, learn how to lock it down and why you should.
12:47<annadane>right. and really, common sense goes a long way. strong passwords, don't re-use passwords
12:47<annadane>some of the biggest agencies in the world have some of the weakest security. equifax's password was "password".
12:47<ompaul>Never use the same passwords on multiple machines. If you have to record them, use dead tree format, don't put them on a machine.
12:47<ompaul>At least it wasn't 1234 :-)
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12:48<rodan>annadane,i need a favor bro can i know any other platform to contact you? if u dont mind and dont think it off topic and i promise i wont be disturbing u
12:49<annadane>i'm here like every day. i'm sure you can find me
12:49<ompaul>Never use the same passwords for your FB/gmail/outlook/whatever other social or other services you use. Failure of one will compromise your username on multiple, use two factor authentication when you can. Use better than that if you can.
12:51<rodan>annadane,its fine i will be back and for now iam going to study my university stuffs catch a later bye and take care bro
12:52<tda>while we're on that, what's a good two factor app for linux?
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12:56<ompaul>that depends on what you have and how you get to it, if you want a Third Party App use the google one, if you don't want that, you have to build one and think about all the infrastructure you have to support what the chain of authority is going to be, what is providing the randomised data. OTP is a very common way to do this.
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12:58<arto>gmail complaints when you don't enable two way authentication, but if you do, you can't use email clients with gmail
13:00<tda>meh, im moving away from gmail anyway
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13:00<arto>tda: same here, but I have to support my sister, who has only gmail account
13:01<tda>i thought their 2fa app was android/ios only. do they have a linux version and repo now?
13:01<dragon12>how's difference between nginx and haproxy?
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13:03<ompaul>dragon12: nginx is actually a webserver, and nginx is really nice to use for proxy work and filtering, what was your question again. ;-) frankly I've never used a load balancer as I don't work at that scale
13:03<dragon12>ompaul, is nginx better than apache?
13:03<annadane>there's a few comparisons online
13:03<ompaul>dragon12: you just asked me the difference between nano and xemacs ... :-)
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13:04<annadane>i'd just do a search and research the matter yourself because it depends on what you want
13:04<ompaul>apache is a monster of complication
13:04<annadane>nginx is simpler apparently but you can do more on apache
13:04<arto>often those better and best questions are impossible to answer
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13:05<ompaul>dragon12: what annadane pointed to that arto said
13:05<annadane>also i think it kind of stops people from going through the trial and error stage and thus ending up with a more thorough understanding of the fundamentals
13:06<arto>well usually it depends on many factors
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13:38<arto>GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.InteractiveauthorizarionRequired:Interactive authentication required.
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13:39<arto>I got that error every time I log back from lock screen, any hints?
13:42<annadane>which desktop
13:42<annadane>really? hmm
13:42<annadane>can you access your desktop through any other means or do you have to restart the computer?
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13:44<arto>this is more academic, I've set screen to lock after 5 minutes inactivity, when I log back in, error message is displayed. I just close it.
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13:44<annadane>i'm afraid i don't know, sorry
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13:45<arto>no need, I said it's more academic.
13:45<arto>after google search tried to edit some /etc/policykit* files, but still have no found solution.
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13:49<arto>does anyone no where to find documentation about systemd?
13:49<arto>know where*
13:52<sarnold>the web / blog / wiki things are better for overviews, the manpages are better for details
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13:52<sarnold>the trouble with manpages is it takes me four or five tries before I find the manpage I want
13:53<Jessi>[ø] Join the best Crypto Coins earning site!! --> Earn easy Bitcoin, Ethereum, Litecoin, Bitcoin Cash!!!!!! ---> [ø]
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13:53<arto>I tried apropos systemd and it took hours read those
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13:56<annadane>basically there's a few websites with really good info on any topic if you care to look
13:56<annadane>freedesktop is one
13:56<annadane>arch wiki is another
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13:58<arto>yea, I tried a few weeks ago, and found wiki page, and much hate pages
13:59<annadane>97 reasons why lennart poettering is the devil
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13:59<arto>for example
13:59<ompaul>sarnold: apropos KEYWORD should find you all those pages in one go
13:59<arto>ompaul: I used that, as I just said
14:00<sarnold>ompaul: that's the trouble; "which of these 99 manpages is the one you want?"
14:00<ompaul>sarnold: apropos KEYWORD |grep other-keyword would be my first choice in that case
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14:01<ompaul>arto: sorry, didn't see that --- I'm getting old or some such
14:01<sarnold>ompaul: heh, okay, let's play a little game :D find the manpage that lets you configure systemd's laptop lid close behaviour .. count how many it takes you to read before you find it.
14:01<sarnold>ompaul: this was a game I played last week
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14:02<sarnold>ompaul: I count *four* 'man ..' instances after 'man -k systemd'
14:02<arto>ompaul: no harm, just little more activity on the channel
14:02<sarnold>.. (in my history)
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14:02<ompaul>apropos systemd | grep suspend
14:03<ompaul>obviously you might want to look at hibernate also ... but you choose which oen
14:04<sarnold>no no no, *play the game* :D
14:04<ompaul>I did, maybe I'm very good at it. :-)
14:04<sarnold>find the name of the variable and which file you put it in to let you change the bahviour of systemd when you close the lid
14:04<annadane>ssh in, journalctl -f :P
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14:05<ompaul>that fixes most things so does /sbin/init/ 0
14:05<ompaul>which turns the computer off then you can fix things when you next turn it on
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14:07<ompaul>then there is one web page found with a straight search found with systemd laptop lid close
14:08<sarnold>ompaul: aha so you gave up the "chase the manpage" game and landed at "just use google" :D
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14:08<sarnold>this was my best effort:
14:08<sarnold> 2248 man -k systemd
14:08<sarnold> 2249 man systemd-suspend.service
14:08<sarnold> 2250 man systemd-sleep.conf
14:08<sarnold> 2251 man systemd.directives
14:08<sarnold> 2252 man logind.conf
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14:08<ompaul>sarnold: not a great idea ...
14:08<ompaul>but I get the idea
14:09<annadane>back in the 90's we didn't even HAVE google. it has to be AUTHENTIC.
14:09<arto>there was Altavista
14:09<sarnold>I really wish there was an omnibus systemd manpage that had EVERYTHING in it, and you could search for what you want in that one file.
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14:10<sarnold>altavista was *amazing*. lvoed that thing.
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14:11<ompaul>annadane: in the 1990s I did this, freebsd box, I installed as many ports as my 14.4 modem would carry over several days, then I read man a(double tab back on tcsh)
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14:11<ompaul>I went through them all
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14:12<ompaul>got to go away can't keep playing see you later
14:12<sarnold>bye ompaul :)
14:12<dragon12>i ran command dpkg-buildpackage and i have got a bunch of debs
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14:12<dragon12>how can i merge these debs into one single deb package?
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14:13<annadane>damn it. this is an easy question, i know this.
14:13<annadane>i have to cheat and look it up
14:13<arto>deb of debs
14:14<annadane>there's supposed to be a package for this in the repo
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14:16<sarnold>if you can't find a good way to do it, you could always ar x them all, tar x the data and control tarballs, merge the datas, merge the controls, etc. ugly. gross. and probably would fail *badly* if something like bash's binary postinst executable is involved..
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14:26<arto>a hard one, could no find better solution than sarnold gave, and as he said there are limitations
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14:45<jhutchins_wk>sarnold: The arch wiki is probably the closest thing to a global systemd resource.
14:45<annadane>if you remove the archisms. but yes.
14:46<sarnold>aye they've got good stuff over there
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14:47<somiaj>dragon12: sounds like an xy problem, why do you want everything in a single deb. As a shared libary system and policy, source packages often produce multiple .debs
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14:48<tda>dpkg -i debian.deb
14:48*dpkg installs debian.deb into tda's head with a bone saw and a few screws
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14:51<somiaj>there are ways to reconfigure a source package to produce a single package, though again still sounds like an xy-problem, also which package is this, a custom one, or a debian package you are rebuilding and why?
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15:07<jelly> fails to open, who to contact?
15:08<sarnold>loads fine for me
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15:11<ompaul>jelly: local cache having a problem?
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15:19<dragon12>i have problem with nginx
15:19<dragon12>i'm getting error 403 forbidden when i try access my website
15:19<dragon12>i've installed modsecurity and owasp rules
15:20<petn-randall>dragon12: Sounds like you haven't attempted to configure anything yet.
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15:20<ompaul>dragon12: did you actually have it working before you installed those?
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15:21<dragon12> /var/log/nginx/error.log file:
15:21<ompaul>dragon12: I don't know why you thought those things would help you, can you uninstall them one at a time
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15:23<sarnold>HTTP/2.0 neat
15:23<ompaul>dragon12: it appears that you have not looked at the default settings for nginx
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15:25<ompaul> /etc/nginx/ holds configs and ... the default is not /var/www it is /usr/share/nginx
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15:30<dragon12>permissions were wrong
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15:46<dragon12>how can i test whether modsecurity works?
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15:48<jhutchins_wk>dragon12: Read about what it's supposed to do and how it works.
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15:48<dragon12>is apparmor installed by default and activated in debian?
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15:50<tda>i dont think so
15:50<ompaul>installing software you don't understand could be more dangerous than installing software that is reasonably robust by default
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15:51<ompaul>dragon12: are you running https?
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15:52<dragon12>ompaul, yes
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15:56<ompaul>dragon12: use and to test your site if it is visible from outside and you'll get a much better picture about your setup
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16:02<ompaul>tthat one
16:02<ompaul>fix the referrer and X-XSS headers now
16:02<ompaul>the other is a nice to have
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16:03<ompaul>also you can hide results
16:03<ompaul>dragon12: ^^ see that instruction
16:04<dragon12>i have A+ in
16:05<ompaul>there might be a little thing or two you can do to get A++
16:06<ompaul>get rid of TLS 1.0
16:06<ompaul>and 1.1
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16:06<ompaul>remove the weak cipher suites
16:07<ompaul>that might get you the extra +
16:07<ompaul>either way it will make you a lot more locked down
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16:27<ompaul>holmgren please fix your connection :-) your connection is bouncing
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16:31<ompaul>holmgren please fix your connection your connection is bouncing :-)
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16:34<ompaul>holmgren please fix your connection your connection is bouncing
16:34<ompaul>wow hes fast
16:34<sarnold>alright, I added an akill, set to expire in an hour, hopefully that'll stand a chance of being seen..
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16:40<mdx0>i have problems to connect to the net after a netinstall, etc/network/interfaces is almost empty, the nm-applet is missing....
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16:41<mdx0>should I use the iw-tools? or is there a other better way?
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16:45<jhutchins_wk>mdx0: What release did you install? Did the network work during the install? Wired or Wireless?
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16:47<mdx0>jhutchins, 09.4. during the installation everthing was fine but then I installed the package nm and removed the wicd
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16:48<mdx0>wireless bcz' the cheap netbook has no eth0
16:50<mdx0>I can't bring the interface up
16:52<mdx0>maybe, after the installation, the connection was a bit unstable, before I installed the: nm.
16:52<jhutchins_wk>mdx0: Do you have a working GUI?
16:53<jhutchins_wk>Do you see the adapter in the NM applet?
16:53<mdx0>no, the NM applet isn't found
16:53<jhutchins_wk>mdx0: What desktop?
16:54<mdx0>i removed a bit to early the wicd tool
16:55<jhutchins_wk>I think you need network-manager-gnome
16:56<mdx0>bcz' I can't handle good wicd, the connection dropped frequently
16:56<jhutchins_wk>mdx0: Yeah, wicd's time has passed.
16:57<mdx0>ah, that't the problem, I don't know how I can get this netbook back to the net without wicd?
16:57<mdx0>jhutchins, thanx
16:57<jhutchins_wk>mdx0: Download the package on a working connection.
16:57<mdx0>then install it with : dpkg -i
16:57<jhutchins_wk>mdx0: You may have to do several cycles of download, install, download dependency, install...
16:58<jhutchins_wk>Good luck, I'm out.
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16:59<mdx0>nice, so, nice
17:02<mdx0>that, a good idea but could I dry it with iw-tools and bring it back to the net and dry then to get the missing packages?
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17:49<arto>installer added stretch-updates to /etc/apt/sources.list, but states it should be stretch-proposed-updates, are they the same?
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18:27<arto>ompaul: thanks, looke at same page, and figured out, it should be proposed-updates
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18:39<Caretaker13>Hi. How do avoid the upgrade train-wreck when Stretch becomes Buster?
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18:41<arto>there is no such package as train-wreck
18:41<Caretaker13>arto: :)
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18:45<retrospectacus>stretch will never become buster
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18:46<arto>Caretaker13: maybe you should reformulate your question
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18:48<blast007>Caretaker13: if you're asking about how to avoid a surprise upgrade from stretch to buster when buster becomes stable, then just make sure you're using the 'stretch' keyword in your sources.list and not 'stable'
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18:50<Caretaker13>Well, I COULD just track testing. Then everything would upgrade over time, not all at once.
18:51<txt-file>I get "Jul 10 00:43:32 newton named[31413]: zone loading from master file /home/ffc/dns/ffc/ failed: permission denied" but with "sudo -u bind -g bind less /home/ffc/dns/ffc/" I'm able to read the file.
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18:52<retrospectacus>or you can upgrade whenever you feel like it, same as always.
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18:55<Caretaker13>In the past, when I did upgrades from one release to another, it seemed like there were always problems. Never did have an upgrade go flawlessly.
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18:58<blast007>did you always read the upgrade/release notes?
18:59<Caretaker13>Read? How do I learn to do that?
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19:06<react>upgrading from jessie to stretch was agony (for me)
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19:07<react>eventually got things working, but several hours of time lost, ymmv
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19:18<arto>Caretaker13: mixing stable and testing is not very advisable, make backups (which is always good solution), read those notes, and if upgrade fails, do fresh install. Generic instructions without knowing more spesifically what has been your problem.
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19:46<newbienos>hi ALl serach
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19:48<Caretaker13>arto: Yes, always back up anything important.
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21:16<freeb>dvs: hi
21:17<freeb>can you read me ? Consegue me ver dvs ?
21:18<drakonis>what's this about
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22:07-!-freeb is "freeb" on #security #python #debian-kde #debian
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22:08-!-illwieckz is "Thomas Debesse" on #debian #debianfr #oolite
22:10-!-ircuser-1 [] has quit []
22:12-!-yohnnyjoe [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:12-!-stephen77 [] has joined #debian
22:12-!-stephen77 is "realname" on #debian
22:20-!-banc [~master@] has joined #debian
22:20-!-banc is "master" on #security #debian #bitlbee #awesome
22:21-!-ninja [~ninja@] has joined #debian
22:21-!-ninja is "realname" on #debian
22:21-!-rocketranch [~rocketran@] has joined #debian
22:21-!-rocketranch is "realname" on #debian
22:22<annadane>freeb, we see your messages
22:22-!-ninja [~ninja@] has quit []
22:27-!-Jflesch_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:29-!-Jflesch [] has joined #debian
22:29-!-Jflesch is "Jerome Flesch" on #debian
22:36-!-kathenas [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:48-!-yeezi [~eyeez@2607:fcc8:9107:ca00:c218:85ff:fec2:1291] has joined #debian
22:48-!-yeezi is "realname" on #debian
22:50-!-rocketranch [~rocketran@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:51-!-yeezi [~eyeez@2607:fcc8:9107:ca00:c218:85ff:fec2:1291] has quit []
22:53-!-ricardo [~quassel@2001:1284:f019:66b4:dd72:f465:50a2:106e] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:54-!-kathenas [] has joined #debian
22:54-!-kathenas is "Phil Wyett" on #debian #debian-boot #debian-gnome #debian-live #debian-next
22:55-!-tcc [] has joined #debian
22:55-!-tcc is "realname" on #debian
23:03-!-zxq9 [] has joined #debian
23:03-!-zxq9 is "zxq9" on @#zomp #debian #space #gentoo #erlang
23:08-!-drakonis [~drakonis@2804:14d:7482:1de0:cd27:63f6:601b:5d62] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:18-!-WeareApple [~Orange@] has joined #debian
23:18-!-WeareApple is "The_Orange" on #tor-relays #tor #qemu #debian #ceph #C
23:24-!-Arrowmaster` [~arrow@] has joined #debian
23:24-!-Arrowmaster` is "Arrowmaster" on #debian
23:24-!-Arrowmaster [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:26-!-stephen77 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:26-!-K0JIbKA [~K0JIbKA@] has joined #debian
23:26-!-K0JIbKA is "nikobit" on #debian #debian-next
23:29-!-freeb [~freeb@] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
23:40-!-wargreen_ [~wargreen@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:41-!-wargreen_ [~wargreen@] has joined #debian
23:41-!-wargreen_ is "realname" on #debian #debian-next
23:41-!-stephen77 [~stephen@] has joined #debian
23:41-!-stephen77 is "realname" on #debian
23:43-!-bolt [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:47-!-x032cx [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:48-!-dvs [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:53-!-jturek [] has joined #debian
23:53-!-jturek is "realname" on #debian
23:53-!-jturek [] has quit []
23:57-!-annadane [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
23:58-!-mode/#debian [+l 535] by debhelper
---Logclosed Tue Jul 10 00:00:04 2018