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#debian IRC Logs for 2018-07-13

---Logopened Fri Jul 13 00:00:10 2018
---Daychanged Fri Jul 13 2018
00:00<razer>By using the portable executable from Mozilla? The sid one does?
00:00<razer>Well, I'm not really installing it. I would never do make install.
00:00<razer>This is just an executable file.
00:01<razer>I don't think I want to ever download a .deb file and just install it if it isn't from a debian resource.
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00:02<keycollector>You downloaded you firefox from mozilla in a tar ball right?
00:03<razer>I believe so. I just went back there and it is a .tar file.
00:04<razer>I used to think .deb files were good to install, but I think even if you install them with apt it is still hard to manage them if not from a apt resource.
00:05<razer>It isn't so much that I don't trust them. I think it just might make a mess.
00:05<razer>The flatpak would be a good for that non-distro app gap.
00:07<keycollector>Installing .deb is always better. Debain repo is always best, anything after that is only as trustworthy as the source. If its not in Debian repo, i wrap it myself.
00:08<razer>I don't know how to make .deb files. But I have downloaded source and built the executable and things run fine. I did not do make install though. I learned not to do that anymore.
00:08<razer>That seems to break a system so it cannot be upgraded or just mess it up so it can't be managed.
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00:09<keycollector>Wrapping a package is quick for personal use, you dont have to do all the work that goes into a official debian package, such as signing.
00:09<keycollector>Wrapping yourself breaks the system? it could cause problems if the package is already on the repo, and you labled it incorrectly. But if its already on the repo we wouldnt be wrapping it.
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00:11<keycollector>and making a package is easy as running make deb-pkg instead of make install... you just need a control file, which takes a min to make.
00:11<razer>keycollector, No, I mean make install from source messes up the system.
00:11<keycollector>Yes, i would never do that.
00:12<keycollector>I would reinstall the same day.
00:12<razer>A lot of instructions when I used to compile things would say to do configure make install and all that.
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00:13<razer>I'm just reading right now that there is something called "checkinstall" which will create a debian package instead and install that.
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00:14<razer>doing make install is sort of like putting a rain drop in a pond. You can't get it out.
00:15<keycollector>Ive read that too in the past, but i've been told checkinstall doesnt always gaurentee to be clean. Its a last resort.
00:15<razer>is there another command?
00:17<keycollector>https://wiki.debian.org/Packaging/Intro?action=show&redirect=IntroDebianPackaging
00:17<keycollector>Thats where i learned to officially wrapp a package
00:17<razer>And as long as I use apt I can manage it. Don't use the lower level programs to install.
00:20<keycollector>You can read there how to wrapp a package. It really only boils down to changing the control file. And renaming the downloaded source tar ball (if even needed).
00:20<razer>I'd like an easier to track what I install/remove too. I don't find an easier way to to that.
00:20<razer>The only thing I know of is something like a var apt records/receipts or something.
00:21<keycollector>I know theres a file that lists all the installed and removed packages date and times.
00:22<keycollector>apt can query all installed packages, packages that are installed manually, automatiically... all in seperate queries.
00:22<keycollector>Should be able to pull all the information you would every need.
00:23<razer>keycollector, Ok, I'll look into what apt commands there are for that.
00:23<razer>keycollector, Do you run stable with sid apt pinning and what desktop do you use?
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00:24<keycollector>Im using Debian KDE
00:24<keycollector>I was stable, but upgraded to testing because i needed support for bleeding edge hardware.
00:24<keycollector>Plus, testing is still "stable" per say.
00:25<razer>I've run testing as well. I've tried the KDE desktop but didn't seem to like it. I found gnome and XFCE to be my favorites.
00:25<keycollector>I manually comment out, or in, the repos in my source list when i pull packages.
00:25<razer>Or sometimes maybe something more simple like a basic tiling window manager.
00:26<keycollector>Have you tried plasma ? the latest release?
00:26<razer>I've tried KDE relatively recently. I know they call the desktop plasma.
00:26<mnuhmnuh>keycollector: i set my sources.list correctly, and leave it alone.
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00:27<razer>Maybe I didn't get the latest KDE because it wasn't available with whatever version of debian I had.
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00:27<razer>but I know it said plasma. Is the one that comes with debian stretch really old?
00:28<mnuhmnuh>there may be a backport for stable, but testing ought to be debian latest.
00:28<keycollector>yeah, i know theres a way to put sid in sources.list but still have the default repo set to stable? and then call the repo manually through apt? assume thats what your refering to. I dont know how to set it up ha
00:28<keycollector>the kde i used with stable is about the same as with testing.
00:28<keycollector>Should feel the same.
00:29<mnuhmnuh>-t sid
00:29<razer>I did think of installing CDE or Motif sometimes though.
00:29<mnuhmnuh>you can set your default in apt preferences ...
00:30<keycollector>Just about to ask that.
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00:30<razer>I know there are ways to setup apt pinning. I think you just tell it which source to use when installing something, just like with backports.
00:30<mnuhmnuh>don't have access atm; running live iso usbkey.
00:31<razer>I've also had some weird audio crackling recently.
00:31<mnuhmnuh>pinning is evil.
00:31<razer>I'm not sure what it is. It doesn't seem to happen every time I boot. I'm not sure if it was just in firefox. But, restarting fixes it.
00:31<keycollector>https://wiki.debian.org/AptPreferences
00:31<razer>mnuhmnuh, yeah, I thought I didn't want to mix stuff too much, which is why I opted for backports.
00:31<keycollector>Ctl-f pinning
00:31<razer>mnuhmnuh, What do you do/run?
00:32<razer>I think that is why stable + flatpaks would be the perfect mix.
00:32<razer>There is what is part of the distro, and then there are just apps you want to install to customize the system yourself.
00:32<mnuhmnuh>razer: fluxbox & mate, dependent upon needing sound. workin' on it.
00:33<razer>mnuhmnuh, Yeah, I've thought about fluxbox, but I didn't like the other DE's. Gnome and XFCE seemed OK.
00:33<mnuhmnuh>razer: i _was_ a programmer/sysadmin. that was a while back.
00:35<razer>Is there a spin of Debian called MM? One with a fancier XFCE setup? I wonder if somebody meant MX.
00:35<razer>And I think gnome software center can get out of sync with apt.
00:35<mnuhmnuh>cdimage.debian.org?
00:36<razer>I don't think there are spins.
00:36<razer>There is Something called MX LInux though.
00:37<keycollector>mnuhmnuh, Is there documentation on auto-configuring partitioning schemes, and running post installation when installing? Hopefully you might know as a old system admin :)
00:37<keycollector>I need to write a postinallation script for STIG'ing systems.
00:37<keycollector>post installation scripts*
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00:46<razer>Install Firefox Quantum in debian 9 Stretch: https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/395316/install-firefox-quantum-in-debian-9-stretch
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00:47<keycollector>That looks correct.
00:47<razer>But then somebody adds that you have to set the default release you want to use, which makes no sense to me.
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00:48<razer>Oh, I guess it does. It might try to use all the sources.
00:48<razer>"This is a good answer, but incomplete. There are two more things that need to be done before running apt install -t sid firefox."
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00:48<keycollector>I have to go, but you have to set the default repo your system will pull from.
00:48<razer>Ok, thanks. What if you have multiple, what will it do?
00:48<keycollector>Packages will only be pulled from sid when you add "-t sid"
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00:48<razer>I know.
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00:49<razer>But with regular, why bother set default then.
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00:49<razer>Oh, it answers that. "f you don't set the default release to stable, the next upgrade or dist-upgrade will upgrade your entire system to sid. Most people don't want this."
00:49<keycollector>"If you don't set the default release to stable, the next upgrade or dist-upgrade will upgrade your entire system to sid. Most people don't want this."
00:49<keycollector>lol
00:50<razer>yep
00:50<keycollector>alright , i gtg cya man
00:50<razer>ok, thanks bye
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02:14<shreyansh_k>Hi, I keep getting error: "dpkg-gencontrol: warning: Depends field of package : unknown substitution variable ${python3:Depends}".
02:14<shreyansh_k>Any pointers?
02:14<shreyansh_k>I've already added dh_python to Build-Depends but It's not helping.
02:14<shreyansh_k>I don't know what I'm missing.
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02:36<hualet>hi there, anyone know what's the purpose of /usr/lib/xorg/modules/linux/libglx.so ?
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02:37<hualet>some machines installed nvidia-driver try to load this file, and others just stick to /usr/lib/xorg/modules/extensions/libglx.so
02:37<hualet>very strange
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03:12<cousin_luigi>Greetings.
03:13<cousin_luigi>Where do I find the git repository with the package sources?
03:13<annadane>cousin_luigi, i'm not sure about git repositories but you can find the source for the debian packages on packages.debian.org
03:14<cousin_luigi>annadane: Thanks, but not what I'm looking for.
03:14<annadane>search for a package and then it's on the right sid
03:14<annadane>e
03:14<cousin_luigi>I need to find out how each tarball was created.
03:14<cousin_luigi>I remember seeing that site, but I can't find it anymore.
03:14<jm_>PTS site? salsa.debian.org?
03:16<cousin_luigi>jm_: That looks like it, TYVM.
03:16<cousin_luigi>jm_: I can't locate a package though.
03:16<cousin_luigi>It's in sid but not there.
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03:17<jm_>cousin_luigi: which package is it?
03:17<cousin_luigi>jm_: sbt
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03:17<jm_>cousin_luigi: https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/sbt you would see its VCS location here if it had one, as you see it says unknown :)
03:18<cousin_luigi>jm_: uh
03:18<cousin_luigi>Where else could it be?
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03:27<cousin_luigi>I mean, how do I find out the recipe for each tarball?
03:28<jm_>I don't know what you are asking about, what recipe?
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03:40<cousin_luigi>jm_: nm, found the packager!
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04:32<pdo_fn14>$ export MANPATH="/usr/share/man/"
04:32<pdo_fn14>is't right place to set MANPATH in debian?
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07:39<dragon12>hello! can anyone help me with spamassassin?
07:39<petn-randall>dragon12: Only if you ask a question.
07:40<dragon12>How can I get rid of error "archive-iterator: no access to /home/mailboxes/maildir/atypical/cur: Permission denied at /usr/share/perl5/Mail/SpamAssassin/ArchiveIterator.pm line 591."?
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07:40<dragon12>http://paste.asie.pl/pZWs
07:40<dragon12>i'm configuring postfix and dovecot
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07:43<arto>chown does not have -spam option as it says
07:44<dragon12>sorry, i meant http://paste.asie.pl/VSdT
07:44<dragon12>i think about archive-iterator errors
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07:45<arto>is there /home/mailboxes/maildir/atypical/cur ?
07:45<dragon12>yes
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07:45<arto>so check it's rights
07:46<dragon12>http://paste.asie.pl/hk2v
07:46<dragon12>vmail:vmail
07:46<arto>ls -l /home/mailboxes/maildir/atypical/cur
07:47<dragon12>http://paste.asie.pl/sMy5
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07:49<arto>so they are rw, change to 660 for start
07:50<arto>and the directorY? ls -ld ?
07:51<dragon12>still the same error
07:51<dragon12>drw-rw---- 2 vmail vmail 335872 Jul 13 13:18 /home/mailboxes/maildir/atypical/cur
07:51<arto>try 666
07:52<arto>and for dir, 770
07:52<dragon12>still the same error
07:53<arto>d:777, files 666
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07:53<dragon12>still the same error
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07:55<arto>beats me
07:55<arto>still Permission denied ?
07:55<dragon12>yes
07:56<arto>or perhaps the rights of previous dirs, 777 to them too
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07:59<petn-randall>NO
07:59<petn-randall>Rainbow permissions are not the solution, they are a beginning of very horrible problems.
08:00<arto>to test, where the problem is
08:00<arto>petn-randall: if you know better
08:00<petn-randall>dragon12: Why does spamassassin need read permissions on your mailbox?
08:00<arto>to read mails
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08:01<arto>x to change dir
08:01<dragon12>petn-randall, it prevents spam
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08:02<petn-randall>dragon12: I know what it does, but the usual way is to run it as a milter or proxy with postfix. That does not need read permissions on the mailbox at all.
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08:02<MaxiSam_>Hi all
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08:03<arto>yes, I use bogofilter from procmail
08:03<MaxiSam_>I have some questions about package building and postinstall process. Someone could help me here ?
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08:05<arto>but to train bogofilter, bogofilter has to read spam first
08:06<arto>I don't know if spamassassin works the same
08:13<arto>dragon12: if it does, maybe do it manually?
08:13<arto>dragon12: or what are you doing?
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08:33<annadane>for the benefit of the ignorant, what are "rainbow permissions"?
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08:34<annadane>also yeah as a matter of philosophy i'd really rather not arbitrarily set permissions purely to test things
08:35<annadane>there have to be better ways
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08:42<grove>*Temporarily* changing the permissions on a miailbox to might be a good solution for training a spamfilter - but it has to be temporary, and if it's to 777 I would pull the netcable first and not put it back until the permission is restored to something sane - that doesn't protect from every situation that could be imagined, but prevents the most obvious attacks
08:43<grove>s/miailbox to/mailbox/
08:43<annadane>oh, ok. i guess rainbow permissions are every number the same
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08:46<grove>I have never heard the term before either, but that definition would make 000 "rainbow permissions" and that rarely causes security problems (it might cause other issues)
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08:49<ee2455>Maybe it's because rainbows have 7 colors, so 777=rainbow permissions. I had never heard the term before either.
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09:01<petn-randall>annadane: Or rather, xmas tree permissions. Every bit is set on.
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09:02<annadane>well when the christmas tree actually works and the cable isn't a cheap knockoff where half the lights don't work and you're in danger of electrocution
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09:14<grove>On ftp.debian.org (and mirrors) it says "Four Debian releases are available on the main site", and lists five. Who should be told about that (and is there any chance they will care before wheezy is removed, and four becomes right)?
09:15<annadane>#debian-www?
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09:15<annadane>(or file a bug against the website)
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09:48<dragon12>how can i move spam messages to spam folder instead of removing them?
09:48<dragon12>i use amavis + spamassassin + clamav
09:50<str1x>hey mates, maybe someone can give me a hint. im running a vm with debian 9 and openldap with fusiondirectory as an webgui. my goal is to backup all files + the database. which solution is a good one for this?
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10:09<petn-randall>dragon12: The right solution would not to accept the mails in the first place.
10:09<petn-randall>dragon12: Everything else only creates (legal) problems for you or other people.
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10:27<dragon12>petn-randall, why legal problems?
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10:35<petn-randall>dragon12: At least in .de you break several laws if you filter out spam mails without notifying any side. Rejecting spam is safe.
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11:00<dragon12>petn-randall, where are you from?
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11:05<petn-randall>dragon12: Take a guess. :)
11:06<sakax>heh :)
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11:10<wget>Hello every one. I'm currently writing a custom initramfs hooks and I wanted to know which shell was executing them? Dash or bash?
11:10<wget>or any other POSIX shell maybe?
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11:11<wget>I'm just asking in order to don't rely on bash specific code which could be incompatible with the shell used to generate the initramfs
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11:17<wget>ok I regenerated the initramfs and $ watch[ed] ps elf and I saw this was sh (/bin/sh: symbolic link to dash). problem fixed.
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11:18<b17>wget: isn't that defined at the top of the script?
11:19<wget>b17: also a true statement :) sh can also be linked to bash which should comply with POSIC as well thought.
11:19<wget>*posix
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11:20<b17>a lot of people use mksh too i think, not sure how they all deal with POSIX
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11:26<arto>b17: I looked at mksh packet description, and there was POSIX mentioned for about 20 times
11:27<mnuhmnuh>b17: mksh looks fairly POSIX oriented from what i can see, at first glance.
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11:29<b17>I would probably use the debian scripts as a guide /usr/share/initramfs-tools
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11:30<b17>then if something isn't right it's their problem for changing the default shell
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11:31<mnuhmnuh>ah: "... using 32-bit integers for arithmetics, possibly deviating from POSIX."
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11:32<mnuhmnuh>use mksh-static w initrd.
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13:02<lavamind>hello, I'm trying to find out if there's some sample MySQL/MariaDB data in Debian
13:02<lavamind>freely licensed...
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13:03<petn-randall>lavamind: Sample data to do what exactly?
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13:07<lavamind>petn-randall: include it as part of a program test suite
13:07<lavamind>the program in question being used (among other things) to backup up databases
13:08<petn-randall>lavamind: Ah, I see. Probably easiest way is to generate some yourself with various programs using mariadb, and then just FOSS it.
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13:09<lavamind>sigh.
13:10<petn-randall>lavamind: Just linger around, maybe someone else has already done this and can point in a direction.
13:10<lavamind>yeah
13:10<lavamind>thanks
13:11<lavamind>heh, there's this http://www.seanlahman.com/baseball-archive/statistics/
13:11<lavamind>CC-BY-SA 3.0, seems dfsg-free
13:13<razer>Well it looks like you can install Firefox 60ESR with snap. I heard that Debian stable will get Firefox ESR with the next point release and looked that up and that is due by Mozilla in September.
13:14<razer>Do you guys do apt pinning, the Debian Wiki strongly recommends against it in favor of the limited backports.
13:15<themill>lavamind: there's simple data like distro-info-data
13:16<themill>`apt-file search -x csv$` turns up rather a lot
13:18<lavamind>themill: I'd prefer data in sql format, so that I get multiple tables and different column types
13:19<arto>lavamind: have not used sql for a while, but it was not hard to save csv ty mysql
13:19<arto>*to mysql
13:20<retrospectacus>csv doesn't have functions, non-string types, foreign keys, ...
13:20<themill>*sigh* that would be why the actual requirements were requested
13:20<mnuhmnuh>it's trivial to convert csv to anythin desired with a little perl.
13:22<alephnull>I often get a 403 Forbidden from the Debian wiki. It usually resolves itself after a day. Am I doing something wrong or is this a known problem?
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13:22<arto>alephnull: what if you just reload the page
13:25<themill>alephnull: check with #debian-www when it happens; it's normally because some spam prevention has kicked in
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13:27<themill>lavamind: lots of database type programs come with test data; I see some 9k .sql files in the archive for instance and there will be plenty more in source packages
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13:28<Sleaker>razer: I use apt-pinning for a single-use case. locking a package that I know will break other packages so I can't release it out into my custom repo.
13:29<Sleaker>but my workflow is for a business so it's not necessarily normal :P
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13:30<Sleaker>pretty sure the only 2 packages I've had to do it with were tomcat7 (due to bad internal dev choice) and libnss3 (trying to install both chrome-stable and chromium on the same system).
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13:36<lavamind>themill: most of these will be database setup instructions, but no actual data inside them
13:36<lavamind>so far haven't found any test or sample data
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13:38<arto>lavamind: why don't use those spaceball results you just showed
13:39<arto>or baseball...
13:40<lavamind>arto: yeah I just might :)
13:40<themill>sql-ledger is full of data
13:42<dragon12>petn-randall, are you from Germany?
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13:42<arto>dragon12: not very debian spesific
13:43<arto>dragon12: but here where I live are no such spam laws as petn-randall told
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14:19<user_>hi, i have trouble installing debian testing in vmware
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14:19<vm_deb_ware>getting this error: https://i.imgur.com/wpSOHtV.png
14:21<ach>alt f1 modprobe lvm-mod
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14:22<ach>!testing
14:22<dpkg>Testing is a continuously updated release between <stable> and <unstable>, currently codenamed <buster>. See http://wiki.debian.org/DebianTesting . Support in #debian-next on irc.oftc.net and ask me about <testing faq> <jessie->stretch> <testing security> <moving target> <apt-listchanges> <apt-listbugs> and <bts>. You need a sound knowledge of Debian and be prepared for a very bumpy ride. Don't use it on things that are critical!
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14:30<vm_deb_ware>ach alt f1 doesn't work in vmware :/
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14:30<vm_deb_ware>thx, going to switch to that chan
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14:48<mnuhmnuh>yay, i got sound working again. logging in w mate, i see speaker icon has an x (mute) beside it. now sound works again (in mate, at least).
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15:56<hanz>whoa long time has passed since the last time i used irc
15:56<retrospectacus>welcome back
15:56<retrospectacus>we've been expecting you
15:57<hanz>yesterday i instzalled mx linux and now i am trying it out. seems like a great os
15:58<razer>The Debian wiki for configuring DWM doesn't seem to be workable. It says to use apt source dwm, but that responds with to use git and a URL, but that responds with the repository is not found.
15:58<retrospectacus>hanz: only debian is supported here. Please locate an mx linux channel if you need support. Try #moocows if you just want to chat
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16:01<hanz>sorry hexchat #debian was preconfigured in hexchat. i dont want to talk about anything. im just trying the distros software. i leave now. bye
16:01<retrospectacus>np
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16:12<new>Hello!
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16:13<new>hoping to get help with 2nd monitor
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16:15<retrospectacus>!ask
16:15<dpkg>If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
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16:19<new>xrandr: Failed to get size of gamma for output default
16:20<new>one has info for 'screen 0' (laptop screen) HDMI connected monitor doesnt read
16:20<new>only* has info for screen 0
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16:23<new>~$ xrandr --auto
16:23<new>xrandr: Failed to get size of gamma for output default
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16:27<retrospectacus>what video card / driver?
16:28-!-mode/#debian [+l 575] by debhelper
16:28<new>AMD raedon R7
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16:40<retrospectacus>new: not super familiar with radeon but this https://wiki.debian.org/AtiHowTo says to install firmware-linux-nonfree
16:40<retrospectacus>among other things
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16:41<mnuhmnuh>yay, my sound's fixed in fluxbox now too. :-)
16:41<retrospectacus>I have also had trouble with HDMi where the monitor needs to be plugged in and detected during boot for it to work later
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16:43<new>thanks retrospectacus, i got the non-free for amd graphics, trying reboot now.
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16:50<Nora>HI
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16:53<Nora>so, no luck after installing the no-free amd stuff. still in same boat. not showing in xrandr
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17:22<jalt>Hi, given a package with a typically interactive installation, what is the simplest, yet correct way to automate it for use with DEBIAN_FRONTEND=noninteractive? Assume that I already have the list of dbconf keys and corresponding answer types.
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17:25<mnuhmnuh>Nora: does the vesa driver work? if you're not a gamer, would you notice the diff? just speculatng.
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17:27<Nora>umm, honestly dont konw what vesa is. I'm not a gammer, most intensive visual thing i would do is 1080 movies, usually not even real 1080
17:28<jalt>vesa is a legacy/basic display driver. one notch above framebuffer. almost all cards will work in some way with a vesa driver.
17:28<mnuhmnuh>Nora: vesa is generic drive anything that remotely conforms to vesa standard. always good enough for me.
17:29<mnuhmnuh>dunno if amd cares about such things these days, though. they used to be drop dead easy.
17:30<Nora>hmmmm... this seems like something that I could really mess up my laptop by messing with???
17:30<mnuhmnuh>how to use it? not sure, dpkg-reconfigure xorg or some such?
17:31<mnuhmnuh>others may chime in.
17:32<mnuhmnuh>Nora: no, very generic, lowest common denomiantor. should not break anything.
17:33<mnuhmnuh>opposite of optimized performer. just does the job, and that's all.
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17:34<b17>Nora: what is not showing in xrandr? Is the monitor not recognized?
17:34<Nora>b17, exactly
17:34<b17>the external or the laptop lcd?
17:34<Nora>also, it cant find gamma... something something
17:35<Nora>it only shows the laptop screen (screen 0)
17:36<b17>you got a LVDS and nothing else? kinda weird
17:36<Nora>mnuhmnuh: i currently am dualbooting win10, would windows10 begin using this driver or it would keep on doing whatever it has done right?
17:36<Nora>xrandr: Failed to get size of gamma for output default
17:36<Nora>Screen 0: minimum 1366 x 768, current 1366 x 768, maximum 1366 x 768
17:36<mnuhmnuh>Nora: no effect on win10.
17:36<Nora>default connected primary 1366x768+0+0 0mm x 0mm
17:36<Nora> 1366x768 76.00*
17:36<Nora>thats the full message
17:37<b17>and you have no failed to load firmware in dmesg?
17:37-!-ed [~ed@ip68-9-196-252.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #debian
17:37-!-ed is "Ed Hamilton" on #debian-next #debian-kde #debian
17:38<Nora>b17, dmesg prints a very long list and i'
17:38<mnuhmnuh>or journalctl -b 0
17:38<Nora>i'm not sure how to look through it
17:38<Nora>i litterally JUST found out about it
17:38<b17>well you need to learn that, it won;t take a few minutes to read up on it
17:38<Nora>ran it 1 time total :)
17:39<mnuhmnuh>use spacebar to page through, arrow keys to see long lines.
17:39<b17>you will need to do it a lot so might as well start now
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17:39<mnuhmnuh>dmesg | less
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17:41<b17>you search in less with the / key it's fun
17:41<mnuhmnuh>i prefer journalctl
17:41<b17>yeah journalctl is probably better
17:42<mnuhmnuh>it's prettier.
17:42<b17>it's mo better too
17:44-!-acald3ron [~acald3ron@189.202.74.213.cable.dyn.cableonline.com.mx] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:45<b17>although dmesg | grep -i firm is a dang good way to go in these situations
17:45<b17>if you are into the whole brevity thing
17:49<Nora>https://paste.debian.net/1033617/
17:49<mnuhmnuh>that's pretty good. tells me all about that cx23885 av card installed in this thing that i have no intention to enable. "firmware: failed to load v4l-cx23885-enc.fw", & etc. yawn. boring.
17:50<mnuhmnuh>good one, nora.
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17:50<Nora>am i funny? what did i do?
17:52<b17>how old is the laptop and did you look it up on the net? like "brand/model debian" or anything?
17:52<mnuhmnuh>no, just thinking that's informative; thinking. hmm. maybe stretch/stable isn't bleeding edge enough for your video? hate's that.
17:55<Nora>b17, good idea. wish i'd thought of that
17:56<b17>found a couple hits on "AMD-Vi: IOAPIC[4] not in IVRS table" check it out
18:00<Nora>b17: the first one is a guy saying he tried about 10 different distros until he found one (centOS)
18:00<b17>if i was a conspiracy theory, I'd think they make these machines to run only one type of software on purpose or something.
18:01<b17>like what if you wanted a pepsi and all they had was coke, that would suck
18:02<Nora>Who loves orange soda?
18:03<mnuhmnuh>club soda's kinda/sorta like grapefruit, fwiw.
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18:05<b17>i'm into grapefruit/tonic with lime, salt on the rim. But anyway, what kind of laptop is it? I'll add it to my don;t buy list.
18:06<Nora>lenovo320 ideapad amda12
18:06<mnuhmnuh>b17: yabut, they're lazy and stupid. they might stop grandma, but your 7 yo. sister'd have no rouble with them.
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18:07<Nora>can yall help me get back into win10 or is that against your code of conduct?
18:07<Nora>it doesnt show in grub
18:07<b17>i think new laptops should work on stretch with backport kernel right?
18:07<sarnold>aww yiss orange soda
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18:08<mnuhmnuh>reboot, select win10 from grub menu when it comes up. yoau can define which would be default option.
18:08<Nora>mnuhmnuh: does not show up in grub
18:08<mnuhmnuh>aii.
18:08<mnuhmnuh>crap. :-P
18:09<mnuhmnuh>well, you're better off without it. sorta kidding.
18:09<b17>Nora: did you mess around with secure boot and allthat? installed in legacy or whatnot?
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18:12<Nora>yes, b17 i think i tried all combonations. i will try again though
18:12<Nora>and i'll deffinately looking this backport stuff
18:13<Nora>thanks everybody
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18:13<Nora>i'm gonna go fiddle some dials and read about backports
18:13<mnuhmnuh>b17: i'm running 4.16 from bpo on a ten y. old desktop, fwiw. no prob.
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18:14<mnuhmnuh>deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian stretch-backports main contrib non-free
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18:15<b17>yeah that's what i was thinking, debina is real current so most newer machines should go straight to backports
18:15<b17>but how do you add a uefi win10 back into grub when you install in legacy mode? I never had a newer machine to mess with.
18:17<mnuhmnuh>deb.debian.org works just as well in there, btw.
18:18<mnuhmnuh>i've never needed to confront uefi yet. yay.
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18:19<b17>i'm not upgrading i'm trying to cut down
18:21<b17>i'm onthe patch
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18:22<mnuhmnuh>running fluxbox, my pii quad is still a screamer. best box ever owned. 4gb ram, 1 tb storage, 2.7 ghz cpu, decent periphs (fast). dog heaven.
18:23<b17>pii quad? whats it, a dual core with 4 thingies on it?
18:24<mnuhmnuh>oops, core ii quad.
18:24<b17>or a 4 core with two thinies?
18:24<sarnold>so it's *not* a pentium II? :)
18:24<sarnold>I had one of those in 1997 or so..
18:24<mnuhmnuh>:-)
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18:25<b17>i still have a pentium two slot cpu machine it works good
18:26<sarnold>(and you know, I might very well have run fluxbox on it.. )
18:26<b17>i did damn small linux on it awhile
18:26<mnuhmnuh>in '97, i was still just warming up to laptops.
18:27<mnuhmnuh>they were pathetic back then.
18:27<mnuhmnuh>ti extensa, max 40 mb ram.
18:28<b17>laptops still suck, can;t take them apart
18:28<mnuhmnuh>built-in ups!
18:29<b17>you need a razor blade to ugrade the ram and still might crack something
18:29<mnuhmnuh>glad i'm in a position to not need one.
18:30<mnuhmnuh>laptop.
18:31<b17>any machine with a fixed cpu is crap, disposable device
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18:31<mnuhmnuh>indeed. ssh --> monster, do the work there.
18:31<b17>they can make you buy a new one with one browser upgrade
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18:33<b17>fixed battery is even worse, i cant believe people fell for this scam
18:33<mnuhmnuh>hope nora gets win10 back. that could suck.
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18:34<b17>i hope nora will be ok too, wow that would be bad to lose win10 i guess
18:34<mnuhmnuh>yeah, one broken, another non-existant. now what?
18:35<b17>throw it in the big box with all the other broken crap
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18:35<mnuhmnuh>ah, deban livedvd+firmware :-)
18:36<mnuhmnuh>on usbkey.
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20:55*mnuhmnuh well, that's depressing.
21:03<mnuhmnuh>what's the command to get uuid of a ptn to plug into /etc/fstab?
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21:06<mnuhmnuh>"apropos uuid" is useless.
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21:11<b17>"apropos label" is pretty useless too, what are you looking for?
21:12<mnuhmnuh>lsblk --fs
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21:13<sarnold>what's a ptn?
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21:15<mnuhmnuh>blkid -U $UUID
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21:16<mnuhmnuh>i once was tasked with cleaning up after scientist programmers who were unaware of the concept subdirs.
21:18<mnuhmnuh>"Dennis has broken his code again! may we take it away and manage it for him now?" "No."
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21:30<b17>"scientist programmers" okay that sounds weird, is that like military intelligence?
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21:32<mnuhmnuh>physicists w fortran, powerful combination. could go either way.
21:32<sarnold>have you seen their python?
21:32*sarnold shudder *
21:32<mnuhmnuh>"okay, you're a phd. just don't touch nothin'".
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21:37<x_>hi, my window manager (KWin) is crashing upon startup. leaving me with a blank desktop. i need to run apt-get -f install to repair an issue but it's failing, possibly because i am not on the network
21:37<x_>even though i am plugged directly into a router. anyone know why plugging in with ethernet still would leave me offline?
21:38<sarnold>what specific error do you get?
21:38<x_>(i am able to switch to a tty so i can enter commands and pinging external websites isn't working)
21:38<sarnold>how about ping 8.8.8.8 or 9.9.9.9 ?
21:39<x_>failed to write (no space left on device)
21:39<sarnold>OHH
21:39<x_>but i ran apt-get autoclean
21:39<sarnold>fix that first :)
21:39<mnuhmnuh>x_: yes, you either use nm-applet (gui) to handle conns. or you edit /etc/network/interfaces
21:39<x_>and deleted some files
21:39<x_>not enough still maybe?
21:39<sarnold>df -h and df -i may help
21:39<x_>mnuhmnuh, well gui is out of question since i have no WM.
21:40<mnuhmnuh>see that now.
21:40<x_>sarnold, looks like my /boot is 100% used according to df -h
21:40<sarnold>focus on the kernel packages then
21:40<mnuhmnuh># ethernet / cat5
21:40<mnuhmnuh>auto enp2s0
21:41<mnuhmnuh>allow-hotplug enp2s0
21:41<mnuhmnuh>iface enp2s0 inet dhcp
21:41<sarnold>if you need to clear up some space in /boot to make it happy, you can use > foo to truncate a file which is way better than deleting the file, which will keep dpkg WAY happier than deleting the files..
21:41<x_>sarnold, i do have unneccessary kernels installed. any way to list them so i can remove the ones i don't need?
21:41<mnuhmnuh>but you've bigger probs.
21:42<sarnold>x_: dpkg -l '*linux*' | cat is probably a good start -- but I have to admit I don't know debian kernel idioms well
21:42<x_>thanks that did list my kernels
21:43<sarnold>keep the one you're running, the newest one, and if that's the same kernel, then one more :)
21:43<mnuhmnuh>aptitude search linux-image
21:43<x_>darn, doing apt remove on any of those fails because it wants me to do apt-get -f install first to fix unmet dependencies
21:43<b17>x_: you said you get a blank desktop when wm crashes on starup, but if wm crashes you won't get that?
21:44<x_>b17, looks like WM does crash but i actually do have access to graphical environment. it just appears like a completely black screen (no dock, no nothing)
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21:46<b17>kwin, which is kwin-x11 you installe kde-plmmsa-desktop metapkg?
21:47<x_>yea kwin-x11
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21:48<x_>im kind of in a difficult situation because i need to clear up space on /boot by removing kernels, but i can't because any attempt to apt-get remove anything fails because of an "unmet dependencies" error telling my to run apt-get -f install to fix it first, and that command doesn't work because of no space on /boot
21:48<x_>lol
21:49<x_>am i better of re-installing the OS
21:49<sarnold>x_: yeah, that's where the > filename thing comes in
21:49<sarnold>no
21:49<b17>why do you think you need apt-get -f install to fix something? the whole problem sounds like a big mess.
21:50<sarnold>you've got a list of kernel packages you want to remove, right? well, *truncate* the kernel and initrd files associated with a version you want to remove with "> linux-blah-blah" ..
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21:50<x_>b17, because it's telling me to run that
21:50<x_>sarnold, ohh ok
21:51<sarnold>b17: filling /boot is like that. it's a PAIN.
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21:51<b17>x_: show us the command and the output on paste.debian.net that says to run apt-get -f install
21:51<sarnold>b17: but once you know the trick (truncate a few files, apt-get install -f and apt-get purge your way out of it) it's not actually so bad
21:52<ach>really gparted maybe installed and you culd resize the partition to post something chainsawmasscre
21:52<b17>show us
21:59<x_>sarnold, so i listed kernels in dpkg, then truncated a few, but apt-get install -f is showing some no space left messages. i entered the commands like "> linux-image-..."
21:59<x_>when i do df -h i still see 100% of /boot used
21:59<sarnold>ow
21:59<sarnold>just how small is this /boot anyway?
21:59<x_>450 mb
22:00<sarnold>okay, not the smallest I've seen, but still small enough to be inconvenient these days
22:00<x_>when i list kernels in dpkg again, it shows the ones i supposedly truncated earlier
22:00-!-mikemike [~mikemike@177.91.253.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:00<sarnold>dpkg only knows packages
22:00<dpkg>sarnold: I don't know, could you explain it?
22:00<x_>maybe they didn't actually truncate? any way i can just "rm" them
22:00<sarnold>dpkg: shutit you :)
22:00<dpkg>no idea, sarnold
22:00<sarnold>you can check with ls -l what their file size is
22:01<sarnold>if you rm them the apt-get purge step won't go smoothly
22:01<x_>how to i ls -l when i am using dpkg -l?
22:02<sarnold>sorry, just ls -l /boot/vmlinuz-*
22:02<sarnold>the ones you truncated should be 0 bytes ..
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22:03<x_>df -h shows same amount of free space on /boot before and after truncating..
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22:04<sarnold>ls -l output?
22:04<x_>it shows several files. the sizes are listed like "7407392"
22:05<ach>i think it shouldn't be that hard use rm?
22:05<b17>no don;t use rm on /boot use apt to manage your pkgs
22:06<x_>should i use ">" on some of the kernels listed in /boot/?
22:06<x_>there are some i don't need in there
22:06<b17>use apt
22:06<x_>we've been through this. i can't use apt lol
22:06<x_>because it fails and tells me to run apt-get -f install first
22:06<x_>and that fails because no free space on /boot
22:07<b17>show us the command and output?
22:07<sarnold>x_: yeah, truncate those kernels and initrds :)
22:08<sarnold>x_: just the ones that you're going to delete through apt
22:08<x_>sarnold, permission denied? i tried the command "sudo > /boot/vmlinux-..etc"
22:09<x_>still says permission denied
22:10<sarnold>sudo -s first
22:10<sarnold>(when you run sudo > ..." your current shell is parsing the > token and trying to open the file)
22:12<x_>thanks
22:13<x_>i see progress in df -h! size going down
22:15<b17>i had a gf that said her size was going down too, but she still fat
22:15<mnuhmnuh>pig.
22:16<mnuhmnuh>get yer eyes checked.
22:16<b17>just sayin, going down is relative
22:16<sarnold>heheh
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22:19<tomas>hola
22:19<tomas>hay alguien
22:20<tomas>??
22:20<b17>going from 450 to 430 is going down, but /boot should be like maybe three or four kernels, like maybe 200 mb tops?
22:20<infinitesadness_>hola
22:20<sakax>!debian-es
22:20<dpkg>Este canal es de soporte técnico en Inglés para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en Español, puede ingresar en #debian-es tecleando /join #debian-es en la línea de chat.
22:20<infinitesadness_>mi spanol no es muy bueno
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22:20<infinitesadness_> hable, muchacho
22:20<tomas>i have a problem with hashcat and my gtx 1050
22:21<tomas>not found the GPU
22:21<mnuhmnuh>yeah, i have 4.9 and 4.16 in /boot.
22:21<infinitesadness_>have you installed the nvidia drivers?
22:21<mnuhmnuh>63 mb.
22:21<tomas>yeah, i install the drivers on synaptics
22:22<infinitesadness_>well, that's as far as i can help you
22:22<infinitesadness_>take a sit and wait a while for help
22:22<tomas>ok, tnx
22:23<infinitesadness_>i cant help anymore cuz i dont even know what hashcat is
22:23<b17>i still get mb and gb mixed up maybe it's 500 gb for /boot?
22:23<sarnold>tomas: does lsmod show the modules loaded?
22:23<sarnold>b17: lol
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22:25<x__>sarnold, thanks for your help that did work! but kwin is still crashing on boot. lol
22:25<sarnold>x__: oh man.
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22:26<x__>i need to work on getting onto a network so i can run apt-get update and see if that fixes it
22:26<sarnold>oh right, I forgot that bit of the story
22:26<x__>at least i cleared out those kernels and apt works again
22:26<sarnold>so, ping 8.8.8.8?
22:26<tomas>nvidia_drm 45056 0
22:26<tomas>nvidia_modeset 1110016 1 nvidia_drm
22:26<tomas>nvidia 14372864 4 nvidia_modeset
22:26<x__>"network is unreachable"
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22:27<sarnold>x__: does ip link show the nic you expect to work? is it connected etc/
22:28<x__>sarnold, yea ip link shows it with "state UP"
22:28<tomas>i download the driver on the official nvidia page (.run archive) and when set the permision and open in terminal, the terminal does not open
22:28<sarnold>x__: okay, does ip addr show an address you'd expect?
22:29<x__>sarnold, i don't know what to expect to be honest. it does show some ipv6 looking address
22:30<x__>this computer has never been connected to this router before
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22:31<sarnold>x__: okay, probably you'd be happier with an ipv4 :)
22:31<sarnold>x__: do you normally do network manager or /etc/network/interfaces on this machine?
22:31<b17>if you get that nvidia driver to connect to the internet we're all screwed please don't
22:32<x__>sarnold, network manager
22:32<x__>maybe i need to use interfaces to get it to use the connection?
22:33<x__>since network-manager might not be working/loaded
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22:34<sarnold>x__: you can try nm-cli to interact with it from the command line
22:34<sarnold>sorry, nmcli
22:35<x__>nmcli g (state) shows i'm disconnected with no connectivity. wifi shows enabled
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22:35<x__>i'll play around with this some more
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22:39<x__>success!
22:39<x__>connected to nmcli to the wifi
22:40<x__>thanks a lot for the awesome help sarnold
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22:40<sarnold>x__: awesome! :D
22:41<sarnold>x__: .. next up, kwin? :)
22:41<x__>issue resolved! :)
22:41<x__>doing the upgrade fixed it
22:41<x__>once i got online
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22:41<x__>did update and upgrade
22:42<mnuhmnuh>didn't think that was going to get solved. woof.
22:44<x__>i was about to reinstall the OS at one point. sarnold was more patient about it than i was lol
22:45<sarnold>I'm glad you got kwin on your own, I haven't run kde since 2000 or so. I'm a bit stale there :)
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23:44<BanAllNegros>hello
23:44<BanAllNegros>i need help
23:44<BanAllNegros>!ops
23:44<dpkg>Please invoke 'dpkg: ops $problem' to call the operators to deal with a specific problem. Misuse of this will lead to a ban. Operators can also be contacted in the #debian-ops channel.
23:45<BanAllNegros>dpkg: ops ban all the niggers
23:45<dpkg>Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, abrotman, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen, SynrG, jm_, somiaj, jelly, petn-randall: banallnegros complains about a problem (see above)
23:45<BanAllNegros>help
23:45<BanAllNegros>there are too many niggers here
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23:46<BanAllNegros>debhelper, _kab, abreu[m], abrotman, absenta, acald3ron, ach, acharles, adema, adi, AfroThundr, afx237, ageis, aguslr, Airwave, ais-admin, Alam_Squeeze, alephnull_, Alex[m]2, alexissampaiokokorelis[m], amoe, Anarka, andi-: annadane, anong, Anthony[m], anto, anyk_, apiers[m], arosusi, Arrowmaster`, Astra, atom[m], Attoy, aviau, AWindowsKrill, babilen, banc, bb2045, bblough, bciGo[m], bestucan[m], bhe[m],
23:47<BanAllNegros>broucaries, byte512, callaveraz, captaindread1[m], captnfab, carlos, carnil, cascardo, catsup, cef, Celelibi, Cezz[m], chaky, chaos, cheapie, chihchun, chirlu, chisaki[m], clonak, clue, cmn, cnote, coderphive, colinmahns[m], compuguy, cooldude:
23:47<BanAllNegros>CoreDuo, COREILLY[m], coruja, CowboyNeal, crabbyhowser[m], Craighton, crash_, crstn, csnxs, cthuluh, CuZnDragon, CyberJacob, cyphase, d-fence, d4n13L, dandersson, DanieleV[m], Darac, daurnimator, david[m], dbristow, dcraig, DeeAitch, deltam, delx, DennisTheTiger, devil, Devil6Lair, dfceaef[m], diegov[m], DLange, DNS[m], Doctor_Pi, dogsleg, Dolphi, DominikSaar[m]:
23:47<BanAllNegros>dondelelcaro, donofrio, DonRichie, Dowzee, dpanter, dpkg, drabard, dragon12, drakonis, dselect, DSNTravellerbot[m], duclicsic, dust, dwfreed, eegiks, eightyeight, el, magyar, manioul[m], marek[m], markhkim, mayorga, mcintosh, medicalwei, notafile[m], noti[m], nowhereman, OdyX, oftc_ftw[m]:
23:47<BanAllNegros>petris, peylight, phos, PigeonWhisperer, pipedream, piper, pookie, Powersource[m], Psi-Jack, pwgen, Q-Master, qobi[m], r3vlibre[m], raindev, react, redlegion, REiN, retrospectacus, ribe, RichiH, rjsalts, RobertSeven[m], robla[m], rocketranch:
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23:48<coderphive>Why do people even do that
23:48<annadane>ignore the troll, move on
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23:50<Psi-Jack>coderphive: Revenge, for being born. heh.
23:51<coderphive>Apparently
23:52*mnuhmnuh jebus. evolve already.
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---Logclosed Sat Jul 14 00:00:34 2018