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#debian IRC Logs for 2018-07-25

---Logopened Wed Jul 25 00:00:49 2018
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01:54<Unkn-Error>Hello
01:55<Unkn-Error>I wish to downlod the .iso of Debian TESTING install
01:55<Unkn-Error>is this iso good enough? https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage//weekly-builds/amd64/iso-dvd/
01:55<Unkn-Error>if so, why only 1 DVD insead of many like on stable?
01:59<jm_>there are 3 DVD images there, just like there are for stable
01:59-!-epony [~nym@87-116-66-25.ip.btc-net.bg] has quit []
01:59<jm_>do you actually need the DVD? why not netinst and install the rest from a repository?
01:59<Unkn-Error>hmm. now it is
01:59<Unkn-Error>wierd
02:00<Unkn-Error>I did refreshed the page, and now I see 3 iso, before onlu 1-st dvd was shown
02:00<Unkn-Error>netinst will be slow
02:01<jm_>the problem with testing DVD is that it quickly becomes obsolete
02:02<Unkn-Error>I will do a usb stick :)
02:02<Unkn-Error>*bootable usb stick
02:02<Unkn-Error>the fact is that, I am curious on how it will work on the second laptop
02:02<jm_>it doesn't matter, the packages will become obsolete regardles of where they reside on
02:02<Unkn-Error>I have debian on this one (stable), but now I am in windows.
02:03<Unkn-Error>the problem is with the second monitor
02:03<Unkn-Error>the resolution is smaller in linux, compared to windows
02:03<jm_>but yeah, if you want to obviously use it, or maybe even the live one
02:03<jm_>https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/weekly-live-builds/amd64/iso-hybrid/
02:06<Unkn-Error>jm_, good point. I will download a live (+ non-free firmware)
02:06<Unkn-Error>thx for the tip
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02:07<jm_>not sure if there's a live one with non-free stuff on it, unless you build it yourself using jigdo
02:07<Unkn-Error>https://cdimage.debian.org/images/unofficial/non-free/images-including-firmware/current-live/amd64/iso-hybrid/
02:07<Unkn-Error>this one ^^
02:08<jm_>ahh cool
02:09<Unkn-Error>will Debian TESTIG be more "unstable" compared to Arch Linux / Suse - rolling thumble weed / fedora beta?
02:15-!-CEP-2015-Jessie [~cep2015@host159.186-109-183.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Quit: Me jui]
02:15<Unkn-Error>I used debian stable, mostly for Android Bridge and phone drivers, helped me a lot installing LineAge OS on one of my old phones.
02:17<Unkn-Error>for web-browsing I used Manjaro (based on Arch) for 3 weeks now, and it was pretty stable - but it is not to be used daily. As an experiment it was just fine. I don't like AUR I've found some malware in the past few years back.
02:17<Unkn-Error>gentoo - current was pretty stable, for desktop usage
02:18<Unkn-Error>fedora beta - was unusable
02:19<Unkn-Error>I would like that Industry 4.0 to switch on debian insead of centos. But this is not happening. centos is so small.
02:22<Unkn-Error>...and I am waiting for a working image of debian for raspberry pi3. Raspaberian is okay, but it would be nice to have debian a pure debian for armhf
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04:30<wvdschel>Hi, I'm trying to set up a recurring donation to Debian but it seems this is not supported by any of the European organisations accepting donations on behalve of Debian?
04:32<wvdschel>And the minimum payment through SPI is $40/month?
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06:52<Cybertinus>Hi, call me stupid, but where can I find md5sums or something for the netinstall iso I just downloaded?
06:54<jm_>in the same dir you download the iso from
06:54<abrotman>in the same dir you downloaded it from
06:54<Cybertinus>right
06:54<Cybertinus>thnx
06:55<Cybertinus>I didn't see a link to it on the download page, that's why I asked
06:56<jm_>which page is that?
06:56<Cybertinus>https://www.debian.org/distrib/netinst
06:57<jm_>yeah maybe the verify link from https://www.debian.org/CD/ can be added to it
06:57<jm_>also if you get to it from the latter one, it opens a dir so you see those files too
06:59<Cybertinus>http://paste.debian.net/1035091/ <-- I think my download is OK :)
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09:38<jelly>,v systemd
09:38<judd>Package: systemd on amd64 -- wheezy: 44-11+deb7u4; wheezy-security: 44-11+deb7u5; wheezy-backports: 204-14~bpo70+1; jessie: 215-17+deb8u7; jessie-backports: 230-7~bpo8+2; stretch: 232-25+deb9u2; stretch-proposed-updates: 232-25+deb9u3; stretch-updates: 232-25+deb9u3; stretch-backports: 237-3~bpo9+1; buster: 239-5; sid: 239-5
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10:38<JohnA>I run a debian server (buster) (email, cloud services ...). which VPN server is recommended for connecting things like Cell Phones, laptops ... to server?
10:39<arto>!debian-next
10:39<dpkg>#debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on Freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
10:39<petn-randall>JohnA: bust is *NOT* recommended to run on a server, because buster hasn't been released yet, has lots of migrations going on right now and does not get timely security support.
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10:48<JohnA>petn-randall: I understand that, but the advantages of getting the latest sw, offset some of the disadvantages. so I am prepared to live with it.
10:49<arto>JohnA: I don't mean to insult you, but I think you dont understand Debian testing
10:50<petn-randall>JohnA: That's what backports are for.
10:50<petn-randall>!stretch-backports
10:50<dpkg>Some packages intended for Buster (Debian 10) but recompiled for use with Stretch (Debian 9) can be found in the stretch-backports repository. See http://backports.debian.org/Instructions/ . Ask me about <bdo>, <backports>.
10:50<JohnA>arto: why do you say that? What is it that I "don't understand"?
10:50<jelly>JohnA, anyhow, openvpn seems to be the common choice
10:50<arto>JohnA: That's the first time I hear running testing on a server
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10:51<jelly>also, backports have as little promise of security support as testing
10:52<JohnA>jelly: thanks, I thought it might be but I had seen some comments about VPNs recently and just wondered if there was another recommended.
10:53<petn-randall>Well, but the number of packages you usually use from backports are few and far between, whereas with testing you use *all* packages from a unreleased, minimally tested suite.
10:53<arto>JohnA: But it is your choice: aptitude search vpn, I don't know others than openvpn
10:54<petn-randall>There are other servers that support IPsec, which is supported out of the box with Android/iOS, and a few other OSes. But setting that up is a PITA.
10:54<JohnA>petn-randall: after "having" to run on windows for years debian testing is stability crystallized.
10:55<petn-randall>JohnA: Not on a server, though.
10:55<petn-randall>JohnA: That will get portscanned and attacked on a hourly basis. You don't want to run software without security support on it.
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10:56<JohnA>petn-randall: yes, even on a server, particularly as a developer.
10:56<arto>JohnA: I read debian forums, not a week goes before some ask's 'I use buster, this stopped working', and they use it on desktop
10:56<aigarius>after "having" to run Windows on a server for years ...
10:58<JohnA>arto: I have benn running my server for about 10 years. I run a rolling release by setting apt to ... testing... and so far (and I am tempting fate now) without any problems
10:59<arto>JohnA: It's your decision, we are trying to tell you, it's not best choice
10:59<JohnA>arto: server tend to be vert stable in their run time demands etc, unlike desktops which have to cater to the users ever demand
11:00<arto>JohnA: but when server breaks, it's usualla far more worse than destkop
11:00<JohnA>security, so far i have been lucky i assume, that and multiple layers of fire wall etc.
11:02<aigarius>using stable is quite amazing for servers that can be forgotten about for 5-10 years with autoupdate service running for the security things. had one server recently surface with 15 years of noone touching it. HDD died :D
11:03<JohnA>arto: I agree, but servers are very stable environments, the work load does not change much, but the advantage of running testing is that useful updates show up sooner.
11:03<JohnA>thanks for the advise, and the recommendations
11:03<arto>JohA: seems nothing I say will turn your head, so good luck!
11:03<JohnA>arto, thanks I need it on so many fronts!!
11:04<annadane>just be aware testing is the slowest when it comes to security patches; one can pull security patches from sid
11:04<arto>*sid to server!!*
11:05<annadane>realistically i think the most crucial patches are put in testing within about 2 days so it still ought to be fine
11:05<annadane>fine as far as testing for servers is concerned, anyway
11:06<arto>annadane: its' not only security patches, also other changes happen
11:07<annadane>i'm aware. i guess it's just a matter of weighing the pros and cons
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11:07<arto>annadane: until testing gets to freeze
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11:07<annadane>for a server i guess you just have to take the risk of the window of delay between when something gets patches and when it's dispersed to testing
11:07<arto>annadane: and that really first time to me to hear anyone running testing on server
11:08<annadane>for a server you really don't need new packages, you want vetted software which is known to work, so i don't really understand the decision
11:09<arto>annadane: I think most agree to that
11:09<petn-randall>annadane: Then there can be ongoing transitions that block migration, so a security patch can hit testing with weeks/months in delay.
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12:12<qqz>The following package is still building as arch independent although I have specified Architecture: any in the .dsc file:
12:13<qqz>https://mentors.debian.net/package/qcoan
12:13<qqz>can anyone help me to get arch dependent package names?
12:17<arto>qqz: Isn't there littel thinking error: arch independent => any, and you want dependent. No that I'd know anything about packaging.
12:19<qqz>I want two separate packages on for x86_64 and on for i386
12:19<qqz>how to do that?
12:19<qqz>I have already changed architecture from all to any
12:21<arto>qqz: I dont' know what's difference between all and any, but if you want package for example i386, I suppose Architecture is then i386, this is just common man thinking, as I said, I've no experience on packaging.
12:21<qqz>even writing architecture: i386 amd64 has not changed things
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12:22<arto>qqz: and if it accecpt i386, amd64 etc. as a list
12:22<arto>accepts
12:23<arto>qqz: perhaps there is some packagin manual, I vaguatly remember reading one ages ago
12:23<Brigo>qqz, maybe this can help you https://stackoverflow.com/questions/21038270/how-to-create-binary-debian-package-s-for-several-architectures
12:25<qqz>it does not tell more than I already know+
12:26<Brigo>qqz, you are right, sorry.
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12:26<arto>qqz: does it change anything, if you add comma: i386 amd64 => i386, amd64
12:27<Brigo>i think you have to tell that whey you build the package, as a parameter in dpkg-builpackage.
12:27<qqz>I have just seen that there is an Architecture field in debian.control as well as qcoan.dsc
12:27<Brigo>-a arch
12:27<qqz>I will now change both
12:27<Brigo>and cross fingers :)
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12:36<qqz>it complains missing dependency on libc though i have added libc-bin to the depends
12:39<arto>qqz: for all architectures?
12:39<qqz>yes
12:46<arto>qqz: libc-bin - GNU C -kirjasto: Apuohjelmat
12:47<arto>sorry, localized to my own language, but it bascically sayc C-library, help programs
12:49<arto>qqz: perhaps it should be libc-dev-bin
12:53<qqz>but that dependency is for Build-Depends not for Depends
12:53<qqz>https://lintian.debian.org/tags/missing-dependency-on-libc.html
12:53<qqz>I have already added ${shlibs:Depends} to Depends but it still complains
12:55<arto>qqz: ok, better I'll step back
12:55*mnuhmnuh ya learn something new every day: command-not-found; never heard of it before.
12:59<qqz>concerning RFS: what is NMU and QA?
13:00<qqz>QA: of orphaned packages.
13:00<qqz>but what is NMU?
13:00<annadane>non maintainer upload
13:01<annadane>wonder if dpkg/dselect has a factoid
13:01<annadane>!nmu
13:01<dpkg>Non Maintainer Upload (NMU): when a Debian Developer who is not the package maintainer uploads an update of said package. http://wiki.debian.org/NonMaintainerUpload . See also <binnmu>.
13:01<annadane>there ya go
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13:16<qqz>If I send an RFS to submit@bugs.debian.org will I get a response that the message has been accepted?
13:19<arto>qqz: I sent today bug-report, it said I should get a reply, if it went fine, still waiting
13:20<arto>I used reportbug
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13:23<qqz>have already received a reply; hoping the best.
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13:28<mnuhmnuh>!rfs
13:28<dpkg>hmm... rfs is Request For Sponsor, frequently used in the debian-mentors mailing list as a request from would-be Debian maintainers to find someone who will sponsor their package.
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15:28<ach>!rhytmnbox
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15:31<mnuhmnuh>!rhythmbox
15:31<dpkg>Rhythmbox is an audio player inspired by Apple Inc.'s iTunes for the <GNOME> desktop. http://live.gnome.org/Rhythmbox/FAQ http://projects.gnome.org/rhythmbox/ #rhythmbox on irc.gimp.net.
15:32<ach>it gave no sound no accustic sound?
15:33<mnuhmnuh>try re-wording that q.
15:34<ach>music played from same file with vlc makes noice rhythmbox no tone
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15:36<sevu>I assume that I have a file with invisible characters in the filename. Would anyone have an idea how I culd investigate this?
15:37<mnuhmnuh>ls -AlF filnam<TAB>
15:38<mnuhmnuh><TAB> again for list of possibles.
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15:38<mnuhmnuh>if it didn't work.
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15:41<jelly>I see qqz did not manage to find their way to -mentors
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15:45<sevu>Sorry for late answer
15:45<sevu>ls shows me this https://pastebin.com/j2WSpvF8
15:46<sevu>The file is listed three times – if I öeave the star off, only one file is listed
15:46<sevu>But I don't know how I can go farther.... something like seeing the filename with an hexeditor or so
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15:52<sevu>I'm actually more interrested in seeing what control characters are there, or what the issue is about, than to somehow solve it.... (Guess copying back she shadow- might be a fix)
15:53<sevu>It's causes by using ParagonFS on windows to modify the ext4 drive
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16:17<mnuhmnuh>i'd say the issue is about using ParagonFS on windows to modify the ext4 drive.
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16:21<sevu>Absolutely. I would like to look what it did though.
16:23<mnuhmnuh>you could pipe that dir listing through "od -c" to check for odd chars.
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16:24<mnuhmnuh>don't like seeing three shadow, all same size & timestamp.
16:28<sevu>they even have same hashsums. piping to "odd -c" shows not more information than the ls command alone, maybe meaning the information is already lost when ls is used
16:29<sevu>(exact output https://pastebin.com/8N6yEPie )
16:31<mnuhmnuh>use cat
16:31<annadane>mrowl
16:31<mnuhmnuh>no, od -c file
16:32*annadane plays with ball of yarn
16:32*mnuhmnuh fsssst!$!\
16:33<sevu>hmmm these are things which works with the content of the file. That is probably fine, but I would need to get the filename itself
16:33<mnuhmnuh>i doubt you'll see anything new, though.
16:34<sevu>On a related note, is it possible that there really exist multiple files with the exact same name on ext4?
16:34<mnuhmnuh>not in the same dir.
16:35<mnuhmnuh>what'd be the sense of it? how would you specify one over the other?
16:38<sevu>It wouldn't make sense, no, by no means. Allowing controll characters in filename seems not usefull either, but well. I wondered if my understanding of the filesystem was wrong
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17:02<sevu>hmmm these three files ... stat shows for al three files the same indode... does that mean it is the same file?
17:03<sevu>(full output: https://pastebin.com/cCTtbTa5)
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17:07<sevu>du shadow* does list the file just once, in difference to ls…
17:09<naicamine>I want to divide a terminal into 3 different windows, but I can't remember how I did it before... like a cli version of i3...
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18:25<maxrazer>Did #debian just switch to requiring registered nicks?
18:26<blast007>there's been an ongoing spam attack the last day or two
18:27<maxrazer>blast007, Ok, I wondered if something like that happened and resulted in a change.
18:27<maxrazer>I just registered. I could always join without.
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18:36<sarnold>maxrazer: .. over here :D
18:38<maxrazer>Are any Debian update servers down recently?
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18:39<maxrazer>I couldn't run apt update. All kinds of weird errors said it couldn't resolve.
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18:40<sarnold>what errors? I could reach ftp.debian.org just now..
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18:41<maxrazer>I did not capture the exact error. It said locked and could not resolve server. I tried multiple times and restarting.
18:42<maxrazer>I've had to reboot into windows. I lost desktop environment because I removed it and then the update server stopped working.
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18:44<maxrazer>I could check again and write it down or maybe reinstall.
18:44<maxrazer>Either way I still have never figured out why the little run program icon in xfce is missing on debian and has to be selected manually using libremenu tool you have to install.
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18:45<sarnold>maxrazer: locked may mean an automatic tool is running apt elsewhere..
18:45<maxrazer>I've done a fresh install of stable and testing and run xfce and the run program at the menu always has a missing icon symbol.'
18:45<sarnold>maxrazer: unable to resolve is perhaps a sign of incorrect network or dns config..
18:45<maxrazer>sarnold, Maybe, but I restarted computer, so I don't see how.
18:46<maxrazer>sarnold, Perhaps, but I didn't touch that. I just used tasksel and removed and added Debian desktop environment and xfce.
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18:48<BlueG>I am trying to find the originally selected font in a glabels document.
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18:48<BlueG>If the font is not installed on your system, it falls back to a default, is there any way to determine what the original font was?
18:48<maxrazer>Blue-G. Yes, I looked it up. It was gnome something
18:49<maxrazer>For some reason the run-program.desktop in debian xfce by default was gnome something and not found.
18:49<maxrazer>I opened the .desktop file and checked the icon value
18:49<maxrazer>Is that from not installing debian desktop environment during initial install? I unchecked that and checked XFCE instead.
18:56<BlueG>Gnome something? What do you mean?
18:56<maxrazer>the name of the icon had the word gnome in it. It might have been gnome-start
18:56<maxrazer>I didn't write it down.
18:56<maxrazer>it is supposed to be something like system-run in xfce
18:57<maxrazer>This is from a fresh install. I didn't do it.
18:58<maxrazer>The icon exists. But the value in the .desktop file is set incorrect by default.
18:59<BlueG>I'm not sure I understand. I am trying to find out what font was used in a label generated with glabels. But when I open the file, instead of showing the name of the font, it shows the fallback font.
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18:59<maxrazer>It is an icon.
19:00<BlueG>What is an icon?
19:00<maxrazer>The icon used in the xfce menu to run a program by typed name. The first option
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19:25<maxrazer>When I run apt update I get this error https://pastebin.com/eXEn2vVL
19:25<maxrazer>I cannot install anything either.
19:25<maxrazer>I get errors saying cannot resolve server and things like that.
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19:47<maxrazer>Is anyone aware of the kernel mismatch problem with debian installer testing?
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19:58<blast007>maxrazer: are you trying to install Debian Buster?
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19:58<maxrazer>blast007, Yeah, I guess soo. It is buster alpha 3 which follows testing.
19:58<blast007>the testing installer is to test the installer, not to install testing
19:58<maxrazer>Yeah, that is what the website says
19:59<maxrazer>The weekly build for example doesn't even install
19:59<maxrazer>The cd team told me the alpha 3 works though
19:59<blast007>install a basic install of stretch, change the sources to point to testing (or buster), and upgrade
19:59<maxrazer>It does install, but after upgrading the kernel to 4.17 it stopped working.
19:59<maxrazer>blast007, Yeah, that is what I did before. I'm going back to that.
19:59<blast007>so the issue isn't with the installer then?
19:59<maxrazer>blast007, I'm not sure. The weekly/daily definately has a problem with the installer.
20:00<blast007>in any case, testing/unstable is supported in #debian-next
20:00<maxrazer>They said the testing installer has a kernel mismatch. And when I used the beta 3 it installs but stopped working after I upgraded the kernel. So, I'm thinking maybe related.
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20:01<maxrazer>blast007, Which do you run? Stable, testing? I don't even know what newer packages I get with testing.
20:01<blast007>stable
20:01<maxrazer>Do you add backports?
20:02<maxrazer>Backports should be pretty solid. It isn't like apt pinning from testing or sid.
20:02<maxrazer>I've added backports before.
20:02<blast007>(I started running stretch a couple months before it went stable, though)
20:03<maxrazer>What do you think of backports?
20:06<maxrazer>Does anything happen if I uncheck debian desktop environment and check xfce only?
20:06<maxrazer>Anything bad? The DDE vs. Gnome always confuses me.
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21:47<maxrazer>For some reason the xfce desktop for debian has the wrong icon set in the .desktop file. It is set to icon=gtk-execute. It should be set to icon=system-run.
21:47<maxrazer>The icon=gtk-execute is invalid and not recognized by xfce.
21:48<maxrazer>This gives the first start->Run Program; and invalid icon image/error
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---Logclosed Thu Jul 26 00:00:50 2018