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#debian IRC Logs for 2018-07-30

---Logopened Mon Jul 30 00:00:55 2018
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08:20-!-Moomoc is "Sebastian Humenda" on #debian #debian-a11y @#freedict
08:20<Moomoc>Hi
08:20<Moomoc>How could I get a package which is still in the queue for stretch-proposed-updates?
08:27<arto>Moomoc: add line deb... stretch-proposed-updates main to /etc/apt/sources.list
08:27<Moomoc>arto: yup, already done, but it doesn't offer any updates
08:27<arto>Moomoc: did you do apt update first?
08:27<Moomoc>Yes, I did.
08:28<Moomoc>If I recall correctly, there's a queue before things land in proposed-updates?
08:28<arto>Moomoc: stretch-updates is another
08:28<arto>Moomoc: I have those both in sources.list
08:29<Moomoc>arto: I didn't have stretch-updates yet, but that doesn't change the situation. I need linux* 4.9.110~, got 4.9.80~.
08:30<arto>Moomoc: 4.9.0-7 is the latest, try back ports
08:30<arto>Moomoc: speaking os stable stretch
08:30<arto>of*
08:31<arto>!bpo
08:31<dpkg>backports.debian.org (formerly backports.org) is an official repository of <backports> for the current stable (see <jessie backports>) and oldstable (<wheezy backports>) distributions, prepared by Debian developers. Ask me about <backport caveat> and read http://backports.debian.org/Instructions/. See also <bdo kernel> <bdo mirrors> <bdo contents> <bdo list> <bdo bugs> <bdo xorg> <bdo NEW>.
08:31<Moomoc>arto: What about https://release.debian.org/proposed-updates/stable.html
08:31<arto>Moomoc: you said you had it
08:32<arto>Moomoc: and I have both, as I said 4.9.0-7 is the newest you get from there
08:32<Moomoc>Right, I am refering to #903767: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=903767
08:33<Moomoc>AFAIU it's in the queue for stretch-proposed-updates but apprently not in there yet.
08:35<arto>Moomoc: two different numbering, 4.9.0.7 is 4.9.110-3
08:35<Moomoc>I see
08:36<Moomoc>arto: I'll try the bpo kernel now, maybe this solves the bootloop
08:36<arto>Moomoc: I think one is from Debian, other from kernel.org
08:36<arto>Moomoc: ok, try that
08:42<arto>to be exact, 4.9.0-7 is packet, which provides 4.9.110-3 kernel
08:43<Moomoc>arto: aptitude show linux-image-amd64 shows 4.9+80 here (or used to, machine fails booting again)
08:43<Moomoc>wait, it works with the BPO kernel, never mind
08:44<arto>Moomoc: ok, but stretch-updates had 4.9.110-3. Good if bpo kernel solved problem.
08:46<arto>Moomoc: I'm on old notebook, i386, maybe that's the difference
08:47<arto>Moomoc: cat /etc/debian_version
08:47<Moomoc>9.5 :)
08:47<arto>Moomoc: same as mine, you have latest stretch-updates
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08:56-!-Jing is "Kafei" on #debian #debian-next #debian-xfce
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11:10-!-Cerebral is "user" on #debian-apt #debian-browserify #Corsair #coyim #python #redditprivacy #xen #whonix #security #subgraph #Qubes_OS #qubes #privacytools.io #privacytech #otr #linuxfs #linux-rt #hackbeach #debian-xfce #debian-welcome #debian-tech #debian-science #debian-ruby #debian-reproducible #debian-perl #debian-offtopic #debian-next #debian-live #cryptoparty #cryptodotis
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11:14<x3dre>Hi I'm trying to get help on alsa configuration is this the place to get help ?
11:14<annadane>yep
11:15<x3dre>annadane: many thx :)
11:16<x3dre>annadane: I have upgraded with apt last week Thursday and since then, my alsa config has seemingly become corrupted.
11:17<x3dre>In sound preferences I have no Hardware anymore
11:17<arto>x3dre: what makes you think that, can't hear sound or other?
11:17<annadane>which debian release are you on also, stretch?
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11:18<x3dre>I'm using this kernel
11:18<x3dre>Debian 4.17.8-1kali1 (2018-07-24) i686 GNU/Linux
11:18<annadane>!kali
11:18<dpkg>Kali Linux (http://www.kali.org/) is a security and penetration testing distribution from the creators of <backtrack>. It is based on Debian, but it is not Debian and is not supported in #debian. Seek help in #kali-linux on chat.freenode.net or http://forums.kali.org/ . Also ask me about <based on debian>, and read http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html
11:19<annadane>at least i assume that's kali?
11:19<arto>kali IS NOT Debian
11:19<annadane>it says "debian" but i don't see why debian kernels would have kali in the name
11:19<x3dre>ahh I see
11:20<x3dre>Should I go over to the Kali irc channel instead ?
11:20<annadane>yes
11:20<arto>x3dre: they know better
11:20<duclicsic>if you're not actively involved in penetration testing and security auditing, what you should really do is install a different distro
11:20<x3dre>ok thx which node are they on ?
11:21<duclicsic>debian is a good one ;)
11:21<annadane>freenode, as dpkg says
11:21<arto>duclicsic: +1!
11:22<arto>yea, I wonder what alsa helps in penetration testing....
11:22<x3dre>duclicsic: It was pre-installed by a friend quite awhile back as it was their old lappy and it's been working fine for ages... Then the sound vanished with a Dummy output stereo hardware in the sound pref...
11:23<arto>x3dre: seem you friend did practical joke
11:23<arto>x3dre: kali is not good disto for general usage
11:23<duclicsic>x3dre: while it's fine as a learning tool, if you want a reliably distro for daily use i wouldn't recommend it.
11:24<x3dre>arto: It was freely given to me but now I got a problem I cannot workout lol
11:24<duclicsic>sure it can work fine, but you'll find support for the likes of debian/ubuntu much more easily
11:24<arto>x3dre: I suspect you are pretty own when solving, but try that kali channel
11:24<duclicsic>the kali irc channel is probably full of people asking how to hax website???
11:25<x3dre>duclicsic: wiping it off wouldn't be a good idea as my mum is very used to it and any change would confuse her lol
11:25<duclicsic>x3dre: fair enough, just offering advice
11:25<annadane>i'm pretty sure kali/parrot have root account enabled as default
11:25<arto>x3dre: I say it again: kali is meant for penetration testing, not as general usage linux disto
11:26<annadane>so if anything that'd be *less* safe
11:26<annadane>i should put it in a vm and learn them purely so i can tell people just how much they shouldn't be using it...
11:27<x3dre>hmmm I'll think about it over dinner now before installing jessie or greater...
11:27<annadane>install stretch, jessie is basically EOL
11:27<arto>x3dre: but anyways, we don't know what kali has changed, so other channel is better
11:28<x3dre>ok
11:28<x3dre>I'll download the livecd of stretch and bite the bullet.. ;)
11:29<arto>x3dre: I think you will be positively suprprised
11:29<x3dre>mum will get used to it if I help her through the basics ...
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11:30<x3dre>thanks for the feedback #all :)
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11:41<grove>For kali look at: https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/399626/why-is-kali-linux-so-hard-to-set-up-why-wont-people-help-me
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11:44<x3dre>grove: Thx :)
11:45<annadane>dpkg, whynotpentesting is <reply> For some reasons why Kali/Parrot/Other based-on-Debian penetration testing distributions shouldn't be used as a home desktop, see https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/399626/why-is-kali-linux-so-hard-to-set-up-why-wont-people-help-me
11:45<dpkg>okay, annadane
11:47<annadane>"It has a few quirks - being designed as a platform for launching tools, its not really set up to be a general purpose OS, or as well tested alongside other OSes. It sets you up with a root account (which most mainstream distributions discourage)."
11:47<annadane>so, yeah. *definitely* avoid. root account is a very dangerous thing.
11:47<annadane>can we ask what about kali your mother has gotten used to? we can probably tell you how to make debian familiar to her
11:48<annadane>if it's just appearance, there's a number of desktop environments etc you can install
11:49<keycollector>Running Kali in a KVM ontop of Debian is a good choice if you want to use kali. I agree by what is being said. Kali should not be installed a Desktop OS. annadane is a good source of information.
11:50<annadane>even then, i'd avoid it
11:50<annadane>using kali on the desktop where you enter your banking information having opened firefox with the root account doesn't make you safer just because it's in a virtual machine
11:50<x3dre>She's gotten used to the customised desktop she likes between mate and gnome and the icons in the places she expects them.. Doesn't like menus at all lol
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11:51<annadane>yeah, well, all that can be customized
11:52<annadane>the only thing she needs to keep in mind is that if she uses debian stable, the release cycle is different; debian releases once every 2 years and the packages in debian except for a few cases don't change
11:52<annadane>you get security fixes and so on but the basic functionality doesn't change except if you use backports
11:52<annadane>wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian is basically essential reading. she shouldn't start installing programs from testing/unstable
11:53<x3dre>She's used to the rolling release and doing her upgrades every few days from the bash prompt ..
11:53<annadane>the packages in stable are "old", but tend to work well. if new packages are really needed, that page has a section of how to get newer stuff in stable
11:53<petn-randall>x3dre: What annadane said. Kali is a like a fish knife. It's good at cutting fish. It's great at that. But don't try using it as a butter knife, or cutting trees, or putting a nail into wood. It's a specialized tool for a very specific use case.
11:54<x3dre>i'm downloading the livedvd... ;)
11:54<annadane>she may be used to it but i'd start with the assumption that the packages in debian stable are good enough for her and the exceptions to that, we can discuss later
11:54<petn-randall>Kali is a terrible main distro because it's a rolling release, the HW support is terrible, and support is non-existent for anything besides the pentesting tools.
11:55<keycollector>When i mentioned kali in kvm, i meant using it only in kvm for actualle pentesting tools. Root firefox is a no-go. :)
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11:55<annadane>stable prides itself on (and i say this as one of those idiots who fell for the shiny trap and used the rolling version of debian and ended up with breakage when i needed it to work) being very solid and not breaking
11:56<annadane>no, but you won't necessarily know that if you're using kali as a desktop
11:56<annadane>i don't use kali so i don't know but she may well be using a root terminal to open up firefox, or whatever
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11:57<annadane>(in fairness there's a lot of people who have very minimal problems with testing/unstable, but for general advice i'd probably just stick to stable)
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11:57<petn-randall>I use Kali in a VM for pentesting. And even then I occasionally have to reinstall because the upgrade broke, due to it being a rolling release.
11:57<x3dre>No she's sticks to opening a terminal and su to - and then doing her upgrades and then shutting down the root terminal...
11:58<annadane>yeah, fair enough
12:00<x3dre>But somehow this time their latest kernel broke the sound subsystem for her... So I can't let that happen when she's far away on the other side of the Atlantic and having to resort to teamviewer to fix a broken machine :o
12:01<x3dre>She leaves this Thursday so got to sort this fast as she loves her Skype to keep in contact with family and friends
12:01<arto>x3dre: what I've read about kali, it's not advisable to install any other programs to it, by default it was disabled
12:03<annadane>debian's also been around for almost 25 years now, bragging rights... :P
12:03<x3dre>annadane: cool :P
12:08<x3dre>annadane: here's the cpu info Topology: Dual Core model: Intel Pentium Dual T3400 bits: 64 type: MCP
12:08<x3dre>this Debian Hamradio Blend Jessie Preview iso is now what I have and I'm going to burn it to a DVD ;)
12:09<annadane>don't use a live image for installing
12:09<annadane>does the target machine have internet access? i'd use the net install, https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/iso-cd/debian-9.5.0-amd64-netinst.iso
12:10<x3dre>annadane: Just in case the unit goes tits up it's handy to have though ... if she needs to boot to it and use it on another lappy ...
12:10<x3dre>yes it does ...
12:11<annadane>anyway, see https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/ for the install guide
12:12<x3dre>Going to back up her .bash_history files for root and user + the browser json file.
12:12<x3dre>ok will do ;)
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12:36<mith_>hi, I had to configure a nvidia optimus on debian stretch. I'd like to know if I can use this tutorial is good https://www.pcsuggest.com/install-and-configure-nvidia-optimus-with-bumblebee-in-debian/
12:36<petn-randall>!tutorial
12:36<dpkg>A very common problem is that some people prefer to follow a step-by-step tutorial that shows them how to setup their system without reading the documentation or understanding what they are doing. If something goes wrong, they have no clue whatsoever about where to look for hints, and they sometimes decide to start from scratch using a different tutorial. This is not The Proper Way.
12:37<mith_>or if it's better this wiki https://wiki.debian.org/Bumblebee
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12:41<annadane>stupid question, but is there any package that warns you that you're using the root account, like displays a message?
12:43<mith_>dpkg, some people are not professionals in the informatic field and would like to use linux for their work without necessarily knowing everything about linux
12:43<dpkg>mith_: okay
12:43<mith_>dpkg, okay about?
12:43<dpkg>Enter /msg dpkg help in your IRC client, or http://www.debian.org/intro/about
12:43<annadane>mith_, dpkg is a bot...
12:43<mith_>ops....
12:43<annadane>petn-randall, invoked it with !tutorial
12:43<annadane>oops ,
12:44<annadane>stupid completion
12:44<annadane>also sorry for the ping, i should be more mindful
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13:17<petn-randall>dpkg: forget some people
13:17<dpkg>i forgot some people, petn-randall
13:26<jhutchins>mith_: Learning how stuff works is the prices you pay for Linux instead of a license fee.
13:28<arto>mith_: there were recently discussion on forums.debian.net of optimus installation, you can use search
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13:45<mnuhmnuh>annadane: my root PS1 = ($?) [root] $(hostname) ${PWD}_
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13:46<mnuhmnuh>does, help with x apps, but i don't login to x as root.
13:46<mnuhmnuh>s/does/doesn't/
13:46<annadane>depends if you consider xfce terminal x
13:47<annadane>whatever, doesn't really matter
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14:08<mnuhmnuh>certain wm's fired up with a blood red background when you logged in as root. not a bad idea.
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14:22<zuzabrik>hi guys xD
14:24<zuzabrik>some days ago after some hours and some bottles with beer i join this channel, but i can't from my android client... something wrong with authority. you are not in access list, bla bla bla...
14:26<zuzabrik>compiling from source more friendly then your channel xD
14:26<jhutchins_wk>zuzabrik: OFTC updated some settings or something, I had to re-link my nick and add a login script.
14:27<zuzabrik>I'm add "/msg NickServ identify nick pass" as script, but without any results
14:28<zuzabrik>HexChat on my PC as you see, working well...
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14:31<zuzabrik>also i can join linuxmint channels on another server, openbsd channel on another server, but debian on oftc like epic quest
14:35<sarnold>aye, the spam problem was pretty severe lsat week :( most larger channels put in place such restrictions
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14:38<zuzabrik>looks like server link my nickname with my ip... i need more beer...
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14:43<jhutchins_wk>I had to register and validate my nick, even though I've used it for years.
14:48<zuzabrik>i'm register and validate my nick too, and because of this i'm here right now. but i don't understand why i can't join channel with my nick and pass from android client :(
14:50<sarnold>zuzabrik: what nickname?
14:51<zuzabrik>zuzabrik xD
14:52<dtw>zuzabrik, maybe see the ban list: /mode #debian +b
14:53<sarnold>zuzabrik: hrm. what error message did you get?
14:54<zuzabrik>i don't remember, if i try again, i need disconnect :)
14:54<zuzabrik>something about "you are not in access list" or something like this
14:56<retrospectacus>you may have set up a nickname access list and the android device cannot access it. /msg nickserv help access
14:56<sarnold>hmm both secure and enforce are set off.. I'd expect a simple /msg nickserv identify <password here> to do the trick
14:59<zuzabrik>sarnold: copy-paste, i have the same nick, pass for this and another irc servers, so i'm sure, nick and pass valid.
14:59<zuzabrik>retrospectacus: ok, i'm check help access now
14:59<sarnold>zuzabrik: please set unique passwords :) a few weeks ago we had some guessed nick/password combos cause a huge amount of trouble..
15:00<zuzabrik>sarnold: i'm sure my 12345 very secure.
15:00<zuzabrik>sarnold: oops, delete this, i'm type my pass
15:00*sarnold checks his luggage
15:05<zuzabrik>Your ACCESS list is empty and contains no entries.
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15:07<retrospectacus>my only other idea is that the android will not use "regain/ghost" and fails because the nick is in use already here
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15:08<sarnold>my guess is the android client is sending the password as a "server connection" password rather than a /msg nickserv identify password
15:08<zuzabrik>ok. wait a minute. i'm check once again this channel from my phone
15:08<sarnold>oftc doesn't do the server passowrd thing
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15:12<jhutchins_wk>sarnold: Mine used to work with just "password" set in irssi's config. It stopped fairly recently.
15:14<jhutchins_wk>I have another system where that's still working. (Or was last time I started irssi.)
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15:19<zuzabrik>Ok, im noob xD
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15:36<zuzabrik>ok. i'm use /msg NickServ identify nick pass, and it work well on other servers (don't know why), but for oftc only /msg NickServ pass (don't know why)
15:37<retrospectacus>I'd say the correct process is "/nick nick" and then "/msg nickserv identify pass"
15:37<zuzabrik>I'm not very familiar with irc. So, it's my mistake
15:38<retrospectacus>we've all been ther
15:38<retrospectacus>e
15:40<zuzabrik>last question is why other servers can accept /msg NickServ identify nick pass? xD
15:44<jhutchins_wk>zuzabrik: Different versions/server programs.
15:44<jhutchins_wk>zuzabrik: They don't all have the same features.
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15:45<zuzabrik>jhutchins_wk: more smart NickServ configuration? xD
15:55<mnuhmnuh>zuzabrik: with irssi, i have that /msg in ~.irssi/startup; doesn't work on either oftc or freenode. also tried w nick/pass on commandline; no joy. mysterious juju.
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16:11<jhutchins_wk>mnuhmnuh: .irssi/config
16:13<jhutchins_wk>mnuhmnuh: autosendcmd = "/^msg nickserv identify <password> ;wait 2000";
16:13<jhutchins_wk>mnuhmnuh: In the oftc section of the chatnet section.
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16:15<jhutchins_wk>For freenode I just have the password set in that same stanza.
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16:22<mnuhmnuh>jhutchins_wk: and that "/^msg" is not a typo?
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16:23<blast007>for freenode you can use the server password field
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16:25<mnuhmnuh>blast007: i can't register w freenode. i don't do email anymore. oftc has webbish login so it works.
16:25<jhutchins_wk>mnuhmnuh: That is cut and paste from the file that I logged in with today.
16:26<mnuhmnuh>no, i don't want a gmail acct.
16:26<mnuhmnuh>jhutchins_wk: thans, hope it works. :-
16:26<mnuhmnuh>0
16:26<mnuhmnuh>i cannot type anymore.
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16:53-!-ach is "spooky" on #debian
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17:08-!-mode/#debian [+l 526] by debhelper
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17:13-!-Wolololol is "Captain Fuckalot" on #redditprivacy #linux #archlinux #suckless #WorldCommand #garlic #debian-next #tor-onions #debian-offtopic #debian
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17:14-!-Yst is "Alex Yst" on #debian
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17:21-!-ach is "spooky" on #debian
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17:23-!-annadane is "realname" on #debian-live #reproducible-builds #privacytech #debian-offtopic #debian-next #debian-devel-changes #debian-apt #debian
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17:39-!-ach is "spooky" on #debian
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17:45-!-Synthea is "Synthea" on #debian #debian-it @#dnscrypt
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17:55-!-AfroThundr is "Eddie J Carswell II" on #debian-offtopic #debian-next #debian
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18:00-!-mnuhmnuh is "keeling" on #debian
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18:13-!-Iridos is "Unknown" on #debian-next #debian
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18:25-!-Synthea is "Synthea" on #debian #debian-it @#dnscrypt
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18:29-!-Synthea is "Synthea" on #debian #debian-it @#dnscrypt
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18:39-!-mith_ is "mith" on #debian #debian-it
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19:27-!-semeion is "semeion" on #help #oftc #lxde #debian-br #debian #bitlbee
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19:48-!-mode/#debian [+l 520] by debhelper
19:51-!-annadane [~annadane@mtrlpq5302w-lp130-03-70-24-209-68.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #debian
19:51-!-annadane is "realname" on #debian-live #reproducible-builds #privacytech #debian-offtopic #debian-next #debian-devel-changes #debian-apt #debian
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20:04-!-sidmo is "sidmo" on #debian-next #debian-offtopic #debian-kde #debian
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20:39-!-mith_ is "mith" on #debian #debian-it
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20:41-!-Synthea is "Synthea" on #debian #debian-it @#dnscrypt
20:43-!-dvs [~hibbard@00012127.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
20:43-!-dvs is "realname" on #debian
20:43-!-jeep [~jeep@71-17-107-152.nbfr.hsdb.sasknet.sk.ca] has joined #debian
20:43-!-jeep is "jeep" on #nerds #debian #debian-offtopic
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21:12-!-dvs [~hibbard@00012127.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
21:12-!-dvs is "realname" on #debian
21:57-!-pdo_fn14 [~Guess@36.84.62.193] has joined #debian
21:57-!-pdo_fn14 is "realname" on #debian
22:04-!-annadane [~annadane@mtrlpq5302w-lp130-03-70-24-209-68.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:09-!-mnemonic is "semeion" on #bitlbee
22:09-!-mnemonic [~semeion@0001996c.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
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22:39-!-mith_ [~mith@217.64.113.181] has joined #debian
22:39-!-mith_ is "mith" on #debian #debian-it
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23:06-!-txgvnn [~Thunderbi@00021d75.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
23:06-!-txgvnn is "txgvnn" on #debian-vn #subgraph #debian
23:06-!-libregeekingkid [~libregeek@223-136-15-215.emome-ip.hinet.net] has joined #debian
23:06-!-libregeekingkid is "libregeekingkid" on #hackbeach #packaging #debian-ruby #debian-js #debian-browserify #debian-derivatives #debian-in #debian #debian-rust #debian-next #debian-diaspora #fsci #hamara
23:18-!-libregeekingkid [~libregeek@223-136-15-215.emome-ip.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: leaving]
23:27-!-sidmo [~ilven@p5B3D843B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #debian
23:27-!-sidmo is "sidmo" on #debian-next #debian-offtopic #debian-kde #debian
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23:44-!-jimpop is "Jim Popovitch" on #debian
23:46-!-dvs [~hibbard@00012127.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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23:54-!-YuGiOhJCJ [~YuGiOhJCJ@00021b1f.user.oftc.net] has joined #debian
23:54-!-YuGiOhJCJ is "YuGiOhJCJ" on #oftc @#yugiohjcj #qemu #debian
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---Logclosed Tue Jul 31 00:00:57 2018