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#debian IRC Logs for 2018-08-14

---Logopened Tue Aug 14 00:00:05 2018
00:00<maxrazer>Am I imagining that you could install debian unstable through advanced/expert install option? I just tried and it didn't ask me to use unstable. I thought it had it like the mini.iso (which doesn't work right now).
00:02<twb>maxrazer: I've definitely seen that in the past
00:02<twb>maxrazer: possible the stable d-i builds don't have it
00:03<maxrazer>The thing is I swear I just had debian installed that way. I know I didn't use the mini.iso and I didn't change the repository settings.
00:03<twb>maxrazer: I believe it prompts you when you set a mirror -- it checks which releases the mirror has
00:03<maxrazer>oh ok
00:03<maxrazer>I'll have to try again. The mini.iso doesn't work by the way, so that is not an option.
00:04<twb>please expand "doesn't work"
00:04<maxrazer>is unstable a mirror option?
00:04<maxrazer>twb, I really don't remember. The installation doesn't complete. There is some bug.
00:04<twb>regular mirrors carry unstable
00:04<maxrazer>But there is an option to select unstable mirror with the 9.5 netinstall if I use advanced/expert install?
00:04<twb>I *think* so
00:05<twb>if not, it is always possible to just install minimal stable and then dist-upgrade
00:05<maxrazer>I swear I did it a week ago before I wiped the system after mini.iso failed to install.
00:05<twb>That would only require about an extra 200MB downloaded and 500MB of writes to disk
00:05<maxrazer>I'll have to try again and see what is there. Ok
00:05<twb>This is the installer I actually use
00:05<twb>http://cdimage.debian.org/debian/dists/{stable,testing,unstable}/main/installer-amd64/current/images/netboot/debian-installer/amd64/{linux,initrd.gz}
00:06<twb>That's the "active ingredient" of mini.iso
00:06<twb>as you can see there are separate versions of the installer as well
00:06<twb>There are also daily rebuilds:
00:06<twb>http://d-i.debian.org/daily-images/amd64/daily/netboot/debian-installer/amd64/{linux,initrd.gz}
00:06<maxrazer>Do you use the debian installer? Alpha 3?
00:06<twb>All of these are regularly broken for me
00:06<twb>I almost always use the stable installer
00:06<maxrazer>I tried that too. I know that is one option I've used before.
00:07<twb>I don't know what "alpha 3" is; probably the "current" in those URLs points to some version like that
00:07<maxrazer>That link doesn't work. I want to use the stable installer and select unstable idealy.
00:07<twb>maxrazer: you must expand the braces
00:08<maxrazer>I don't know what that is expanding the braces.
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00:09<maxrazer>I'm going to reboot
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00:09<maxrazer>I'm using hexchat. I don't see any way to expand a link braces
00:09<twb>bash does it
00:10<themill>or you copy+paste+edit
00:10<twb>Just browse to http://cdimage.debian.org/debian/dists/stable/main/installer-amd64/current/images/netboot/debian-installer/amd64/
00:10<twb>Looks like mini.iso is at http://cdimage.debian.org/debian/dists/stable/main/installer-amd64/current/images/netboot/
00:10<maxrazer>ok, what do you use there initrd.gz?
00:11<twb>The installer consists of a kernel and a ramdisk, plus whatever is needed to load those into a running system (i.e. a bootloader)
00:11<twb>If you know how to manage your own bootloader, you can just grab the kernel and ramdisk directly
00:11<twb>If you don't, you use something like mini.iso
00:12<twb>it's the same actual installer code
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01:36<twb>SUCCESSSSSS
01:37<twb>setxkbmap -device 18 dvorak
01:37<twb>You can't do it by name, but you can do it by ID
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05:45<tony_was_taken>good morning, yet another graphics driver problem
05:46<tony_was_taken>log in loop, i tried ti delete Nvidia drivers, but stil cannot log in
05:47<jm_>log in using gdm or what? which session is used?
05:47<tony_was_taken>forums do not help
05:47<iflema>tony_was_taken: delete? how did you install?
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05:48<tony_was_taken>apt-get purge nvidia*
05:49<tony_was_taken>May laptop has Optimus feauture (Bumblebee)
05:49*iflema mmm coffee
05:50<tony_was_taken>i tried ti install the wrong driver and i skrewed up everything
05:50<iflema>tony_was_taken: is nouveau blacklisted?
05:51<tony_was_taken>how do i check it?
05:51<iflema>oh optimus yeah no idea
05:51<tony_was_taken>i tried ti re install It but didnt work
05:53<tony_was_taken>May mai goal now is not ti make Nvidia driver work, my goal is to log in normally (reinstall default driver)
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05:55<tony_was_taken>Sorry for spelling, my cellphone keyboard do not have english in it
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05:57<tony_was_taken>how do i remove all the useless drivers and insall the drivers that were present at the installation of the os ?
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06:00*iflema read that as how do i remove the usless video card...
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06:13<jm_>follow the optimus wiki page
06:13<jm_>http://wiki.debian.org/Bumblebee
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06:15<tony_was_taken>dome It,login loop still remains
06:15<tony_was_taken>enter the psw, come back to login
06:16*iflema yeahhhhh
06:17<jm_>in that case check session and X log
06:17<jm_>also try startx manually
06:27<tony_was_taken>startx command not found, tail /var/log/Xorg.n.log says AutoAddDevice is off - not adding forum a few devices, at the end says Nvidia GPU deleting gpu-0 and server terminated successfully
06:28<tony_was_taken>*not adding device
06:28<tony_was_taken>no idea what can i do
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06:32<tony_was_taken>by checkin the whole log i found some error:
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06:36<tony_was_taken>fail load module mouse
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06:37<tony_was_taken>fail ti set del interface
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06:37<tony_was_taken>*to
06:37<tony_was_taken>still no idea what to do
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06:58<EmleyMoor>Are there any reasonably automated IP details lookup tools for security purposes?
06:59<petn-randall>EmleyMoor: host, whois, geoiplookup?
06:59<EmleyMoor>Fails on "reasonably automated"
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07:01<EmleyMoor>I know it's probably asking a lot but if there is a tool out there that, given a list of "new" IPs and an existing list, could discover any relationships between them, it would be very helpful
07:05<grawity>relationships like "same ASN"?
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07:05<EmleyMoor>grawity: Yes, that would be an example
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07:14<blast007>EmleyMoor: https://iphub.info/api
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07:15<grawity>sounds like a thing that intrusion detection systems would do
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07:48<EmleyMoor>Is there an easy sdw to LibreOffice convertor
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08:11<arto>EmleyMoor: can't you import them? I'm on notebook, and have not LibreOffice installed
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10:25<flok>what program allows (gui) you to record to a wav-file that is compatible with pulseaudio?
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10:33<TotallyNotKim>there's different kind of wav's?
10:34<TotallyNotKim>I thought these were raw
10:34<TotallyNotKim>however, audacity?
10:35<petn-randall>TotallyNotKim: They can have different sampling rates and resolutions.
10:35<TotallyNotKim>ahh
10:35<TotallyNotKim>sounds about right
10:35<TotallyNotKim>didnt thing about that
10:35<TotallyNotKim>audacity should be able to handle that
10:35<duclicsic>i think they meant to specify that the application is to be compatible, not the wavs themselves
10:36<flok>TotallyNotKim: audacity does not work here for some reason
10:36<TotallyNotKim>hmm
10:37<TotallyNotKim>never let me down, audacity is my swiss army knife go to for this kind of things
10:37<TotallyNotKim>any idea _why_ it doesnt work?
10:37<TotallyNotKim>some error / log?
10:38<petn-randall>flok: What does "does not work" mean exactly?
10:39<grove>!doesn't work
10:39<dpkg>"Doesn't work" is a vague statement. Does it sit on the couch all day long? Does it procrastinate doing the dishes? Does it beg on the street for change? Please be specific! Define 'it' and what it isn't doing. Give us more details so we can help you without needing to ask basic questions like "what's the error message?". Ask me about <smart questions>, <sicco> and <errors>.
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10:56<flok>petn-randall: i can't monitor the audio. I can record, I can play but monitor doesn't work. recording is from a usb-audio-dev and play is via internal soundcard
10:59<petn-randall>flok: Are you sure it's a audacity issue? Can you play any audio at all?
11:00<themill>by monitor you mean audible or visual mon?
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11:12<flok>petn-randall: yes, I can record and I can play, just not monitor
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12:37<wizofe>May be silly question, but are they some standard messages on Debian when developing an app? E.g. when a user needs to be a root, or similar occasions (You must be a root / Need super-user privileges / You don't look like root).
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12:42<jitterstick>Yes
12:42<jitterstick>Also, no.
12:43<jitterstick>In some cases an error will hapopen in a non sudo situation that does not require SU priveledge.
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12:43<jitterstick>In most cases it will ask you or tell you that super user is necessary.
12:44<jitterstick>It is best to know, shortest time spent, safest to trust the error messages, longest time spent, an agreeable risk is to RTFM.
12:44<wizofe>jitterstick, indeed but my question is about if I am developing a command line utility, is there a specific "Debian" way of displaying such messages/warnings? Or am I free to use whatever I want?
12:44<jitterstick>Oh.
12:44<retrospectacus>whatever you want
12:44<jitterstick>I think that dEBIAN TAKES CARE OF IT FOR YOU.
12:45<jitterstick>I did not mean to cap that ass.
12:45<jitterstick>haha.
12:45<wizofe>haha that sounds scary
12:45<jitterstick>I have never said it in that contwxt bwfore.
12:45<jitterstick>Or ever.
12:45<jitterstick>In that order.
12:46<wizofe>(:
12:46<jitterstick>I think the error messages will populate from a default file and to redirect to another would probablt accomplish your goal, but bloat the system.
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12:47<useretail>hi, i'm using stretch repo, but i want to install a package from sid. that package has some dependencies with higher versions that are not available in stretch. how to install that package without breaking the system?
12:48<annadane>i'd say it depends on the package
12:48<annadane>useretail
12:48<retrospectacus>wizofe: I will go ahead and disagree with jitterstick unless (s)he can point to a utility that does this. Just put this near the top of your program. [ $(id -u) -ne 0 ] && { echo run this as root. ; exit 1 ; }
12:48<useretail>annadane: what are your suggestions?
12:49<annadane>useretail, well, what's the name of the package?
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12:49<annadane>you can generally compile it yourself or backport it but it depends
12:49<useretail>annadane: deepin-calculator
12:49<annadane>ok, so apparently not something super complex
12:50<arturo>anyone using Debian jessie with this hardware: `QLogic FastLinQ 41112 Dual Port 10Gb SFP+ Adapter` (a NIC)
12:50<annadane>!ssb
12:50<dpkg>First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) aptitude update; aptitude install build-essential; aptitude build-dep packagename; apt-get -b source packagename; 4) install the resultant debs. To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>.
12:50<annadane>i'd probably just do that ^
12:50<jitterstick>ACL
12:50<useretail>annadane: thanks
12:51<jitterstick>useretail it may not be compatible in the end and will possibly state that before you have to attempt.
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12:52<wizofe>jitterstick: indeed, which is the default file that populates error msgs? I was mostly asking for smth like that.
12:52<jitterstick>wizofe ACL is the piece of the system I believe you are looking for.
12:52<jitterstick>I was searching and have not located it yet
12:53<useretail>jitterstick: thanks, i'll give it a shot anyway :)
12:53<retrospectacus>wizofe: if you want you can skip checking and the actual thing you are running will (hopefully?) fail with some error of its own. The message will depend on the behaviour of your program. E.g. apt-get will fail with "E: Unable to lock the administration directory (/var/lib/dpkg/), are you root?"
12:54<retrospectacus>wizofe: acl relates to the permissions and ownership of the executable file, it is not something you control as a distributor, and not a good solution
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12:55<jitterstick>wizofe if "error message" then display?
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12:55<jitterstick>wizofe i am thinking the file may be in the unchangeable root. So you would have to develope the system itself to offer that.
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12:56<retrospectacus>arturo: when you run `lspci -nn` what is the line for that item, please? Copy and paste it here.
12:56<retrospectacus>arturo: when you run `lspci -nn` what is the line for that item, please? Copy and paste the single line here.
12:57<arturo>retrospectacus: this is what I have `af:00.0 Ethernet controller: QLogic Corp. Device 8070 (rev 02)`
12:57<arturo>(I don't have access to the system ATM)
12:57<wizofe>thank you jitterstick retrospectacus
12:57<retrospectacus>arturo: that is not enough info. It is not from 'lspci -nn'
12:59<jitterstick>wizofe You are welcome
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13:00<retrospectacus>arturo: usually NIC just work. If it isn't, you can try explaining more thoroughly, but it would be fairly pointless if you are not actually on that computer.
13:01<arturo>retrospectacus: it seems the HW is new and the debian jessie installer doesn't support it. Yes, Debian Jessie, don't ask me why :-P Stretch already support the hardware
13:01<jitterstick>arturo http://driverdownloads.qlogic.com/QLogicDriverDownloads_UI/Defaultnewsearch.aspx
13:02<jitterstick>It includes linux
13:02<jitterstick>The one that says linux
13:02<retrospectacus>jitterstick: do not direct people to bad solutions. Drivers should be installed from debian packages
13:03<jitterstick>The debian package is built from drivers.
13:03<petn-randall>jitterstick: Yeah, but it's installable and removable. The upstream driver is not.
13:03<retrospectacus>yeah, it also gets you new ones when they are released
13:03<jitterstick>If it is built on the system it is more stable and secure.
13:03<retrospectacus>false
13:03<jitterstick>key word is built.
13:03<petn-randall>!dontbreakdebian
13:03<dpkg>extra, extra, read all about it, dont break debian is https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian
13:04<jitterstick>Debian does not take into account all hardware and he hgas an issue.
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13:04<petn-randall>jitterstick: ^^^^ #2, #4, and #10 are relevant here.
13:04<jitterstick>You guys have fun fixing an existing error in debian without the driver.
13:06<retrospectacus>we will, when (s)he is actually ready to work on it. And we will thank you for not interfering and encouraging people to break their system
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13:07<arturo>retrospectacus: the system is currently remote and powered off, so I can't fetch more info right now. The weird point is that PXE is able to get the installer working, but then the installer can't see the NIC
13:08<blast007>that's because the PXE part doesn't use the OS drivers
13:08<retrospectacus>the motherboard does that
13:08<retrospectacus>you can get a newer installer with additional firmware, I believe
13:08<arturo>fair enough
13:09<arturo>how?
13:09<arturo>you mean a newer installer for Debian Jessie?
13:09<retrospectacus>dpkg, firmware images
13:09<dpkg>Unofficial <netinst> and DVD installer images containing non-free Debian firmware packages are available for installing Debian 9 "Stretch". See http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/ and ask me about <install guide>.
13:09<jitterstick>Well it is not included in the firmware provided by debian. https://packages.debian.org/stretch/firmware-qlogic
13:09<jitterstick>perhaps backports or sid will offer a solution, or is that alien?
13:10<jitterstick>I believe the answer you all want to have is check the damn compatability before purchasing the hardware.
13:12<arturo>:-P
13:13<jitterstick>the important thing to remember her is we are all trying to improve the debian end product. alien helps everyone enjoy a more up to date, stable, release.
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13:14<arturo>jitterstick: I'm well aware of that :-P
13:14<retrospectacus>uh, are you talking about "alien" that no-longer-maintained pile of crap used to convert packages between distros
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13:15<blast007>that sounds like the pinnacle of stability
13:16<peb>with a capital P
13:17<retrospectacus>dpkg: alien
13:17<dpkg>[alien] a program which allows one to convert from one package format to another: slackware to redhat, redhat to Debian, Debian to slackware, redhat to slackware, etc. http://kitenet.net/programs/alien/, or no longer maintained
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13:18<peb>retrospectacus: "Alien is a 1979 science fiction horror film directed by Ridley Scott, and starring Sigourney Weaver, Tom Skerritt, Veronica Cartwright, Harry Dean Stanton, John Hurt, Ian Holm and Yaphet Kotto"
13:18*peb ninja ball and disappears
13:18<retrospectacus>that one's not bad
13:18<peb>KRKR
13:21<retrospectacus>arturo: If you really need jessie (hint: you don't) you can try these I guess. http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/archive/8.10.0+nonfree/
13:22<arturo>retrospectacus: I'm reading the package listing but I'm not sure the hardware support is include there either. It seems now that I was lying: I don't have a stretch machine with this NIC
13:24<retrospectacus>without the 'lspci -nn' line we can't really say. But the newer the install, the more likely it will work.
13:24<retrospectacus>without the 'lspci -nn' line we can't really say. But the newer the installer, the more likely it will work.
13:24<arturo>yeah :-S
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13:24<arturo>thanks anyway, will follow up tomorrow
13:28<jitterstick>Actually, possibly more archaic as to alien software.
13:28<jitterstick>!alien software
13:28<jitterstick>older than dpkg
13:28<jitterstick>and the basis of alien.
13:28<jitterstick>I have been with linux for 22 years.
13:29<jitterstick>Started with Slackware on a 486dx2 ibm thinkpad.
13:29<jitterstick>Then progressed through SUSE RedHat Mandrake to Debian.
13:30<jitterstick>And have about a year of FreeBSD
13:31<retrospectacus>arturo: in lspci -nn will be a string like "8086:100f" that is the PCI ID. The robot here Judd will tell you what to install to use it. BUT installer is a bit of a different story. Basically if it doesn't work, use a newer one or add firmware. (see also !installer firmware)
13:31<retrospectacus>!pciid
13:31<dpkg>The PCI ID helps us work out how to support your PCI hardware. It looks like [abcd:1234] in the output of "lspci -nn". Ask the bot "judd" to match the PCI ID of the device, e.g. "/msg judd pciid 8086:284b". Some hardware uses alternate means of detection: beware of some false positives+negatives. See also <judd-hardware>, <local pciid>. To find out what currently installed kernel modules your hardware is using, run "lspci -k".
13:32<annadane>slack's interesting, just not for me
13:33<jitterstick>I have not used the new Slackware as it ended with i386
13:33<annadane>installing everything is a bit weird and -release is really too old and -current... well, you can end up recompiling a few things
13:34<annadane>i guess debian stable + nix packages for me right now is the ideal
13:35<jitterstick>well Debian is a very well thought out standard package, building beyond that from debian source is the best route beyond that and packages provide a time saving option.
13:35<annadane>it's a myth debian has only old software, it can be inconvenient for some things but you're free to build on top of the base
13:36<jitterstick>Yes, that is what we were discussing.
13:36<jitterstick>How that should not be done in here.
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14:23<jitterstick>It seems that support is not mentioned online outside of the driver text from Qlink, not to say that it is not supported, but the hardware looks new with a $350 PRICE TAG.
14:25<jitterstick>And it does work all the way back to the 2.6 kernel which I remember was an important change.
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15:38<ncuptea>hi all
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15:43<ncuptea>hi guys
15:47<grove>!chat
15:47<dpkg>This is not a chat channel, this is a Debian user support channel. Unless you have a Debian support question, please chat elsewhere, like #debian-offtopic, or #moocows on irc.oftc.net or ##chat on irc.freenode.net.
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16:02<mom>hello how can I test if my hardware is dying? I have an old dell optiplex and normally debian is fine but sometimes it seems to "stutter". If I load transmission for example to download an iso, I think transmission takes 20-30 seconds to load
16:03<mom>the front usb ports do not work, but that could just be a cable to the motherboard
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16:03<Synthea>How can I create an user that doesn't have a password and can be access only through ssh?
16:04<mom>loading a song to playback takes around 7 seconds
16:04<jitterstick> Synthea a guest account with a rdp would be more secure.
16:05<mom>there is 2GB of ram
16:05<Synthea>jitterstick, whats the rdp?
16:05<Synthea>Btw I would enter only with cert
16:05<jitterstick>mom there is a gnome disk manager that will show the smart status of your hard disk on a pass fail with numbers. let me check into it.
16:06<mom>jitterstick, thanks . . . i downloaded phoronix and am doing a 34 minutes memory test right now
16:06<jitterstick>it is gnome-disk-utility
16:06<jitterstick>so sudo apt install gnome-disk-utility
16:07<jitterstick>select the drive click the gear and select smart data and self tests.
16:08<jitterstick>Synthea remote desktop protocol
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16:08<Synthea>jitter that's not what I want
16:09<mom>i just want to see if there are physical problems with my computer . .. just buy more ram, new hard drive or replace computer
16:09<Synthea>I want a stupid user for automatic operations
16:10<jitterstick>Synthea https://medium.com/@sevcsik/authentication-using-https-client-certificates-3c9d270e8326
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16:10<mom>is sudo suppose to be installed? I usually do su -
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16:11<Synthea>jitterstick, why not use the normal ssh certificate?
16:12<jitterstick>Synthea also the sudo command carries a -S switch which will allow the password to be included in the same line entry.
16:12<jitterstick>ssh should work, but you will need logon info to supplicate the cert.
16:12<Synthea>That's what I want
16:12<jitterstick>a script can do it, but it is insecure and lazy.
16:12<Synthea>How can I disable the password?
16:13<Synthea>Well it depends on the permissions of the script
16:14<jitterstick>actually I do not know of a way because I do not understand the -S switch in sudo
16:15<jitterstick>You can not disable the password.
16:16<jitterstick>permit empty passwords yes in ssh but it is insecure.
16:16<jitterstick>secure shell becomes shell to all the internet.
16:16<Synthea>I've found this https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/210228/add-a-user-wthout-password-but-with-ssh-and-public-key
16:18<jitterstick>looks good.
16:19<jitterstick>lazy
16:19<jitterstick>but good
16:19<jitterstick>yopu can ssh from anywhere at any time. what is the necessity for automation?
16:19<jitterstick>boss.
16:20<jitterstick>why not have the process run local?
16:21<jitterstick>if it is a remote server that is not yours, it is completely up to them.
16:22<jitterstick>it creates a security issue of property in that case and perhaps worry.
16:23<jitterstick>its an eyes only issue.
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16:47<jitterstick>Synthea perhaps also protect the files in a encrypted folder with a password.
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20:59<ElToro-Y-ElCuernos>I get a weird message about a stop process every time I shutdown my computer
21:00<ElToro-Y-ElCuernos>stop job running for session 2 of user _______
21:01<ElToro-Y-ElCuernos>Sometimes it goes on for 1.5 minutes before it actually shuts down
21:03<annadane>btw it's #privachtech
21:03<annadane>#privacytech
21:05<ElToro-Y-ElCuernos>Thanks Anna. You run sid I think. Have you been getting this notice about a stop job?
21:05<annadane>i run stable right now
21:05<annadane>also, ask in #debian-next for sid
21:06<ElToro-Y-ElCuernos>yeah I just run Stretch too
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21:08<blast007>I sometimes have that with my laptop, at least. I can't recall if my desktop does that, but I do tend to put that to sleep far more often than shutting down.
21:09<ElToro-Y-ElCuernos>If I wait for a while after closing Firefox the stop job only runs for maybe 10 seconds. Sometimes not at all. But if I shutdown immediately after closing my programs it runs for a full 1 minute and 30 seconds.
21:09<sarnold>squid? squid-deb-proxy? those can take a metric eternity to shut down
21:20<ElToro-Y-ElCuernos>I mean I guess it's not really a big deal. My system hasn't really been behaving strange other than this stop job business.
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21:22<ElToro-Y-ElCuernos>Additionally what happened to everyone? I remember visiting #debian and there being over 1000 people. Well maybe at least 700. It seems like our user base has shrunk by at least a half.
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21:44<jitterstick>Well working Distributions
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22:03<blast007>ElToro-Y-ElCuernos: are you perhaps thinking of the user count on the Freenode channel? that looks like it's at ~1200 right now
22:05<ElToro-Y-ElCuernos>Nah don't frequent freenode. I remember there being at least 700 here
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22:36<znoteer>just updated my kernel on two sheeva plugs. On one, the update completed no problems and I've rebooted. On the second, updating initramfs failed with the following error https://paste.debian.net/hidden/90f119b8/ I haven't found anything useful on the web. Any suggestions (Debian stable)
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23:09<jitterstick>znoteer An extra (
23:10<jitterstick>a frown
23:11<jitterstick>in flash-kernel
23:14<jitterstick>try replacing package flash kernel, then reupdate.
23:17<jitterstick>https://www.cyrius.com/debian/kirkwood/sheevaplug/boot/
23:18<jitterstick>znoteer that may help.
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---Logclosed Wed Aug 15 00:00:06 2018